Future of Life Institute Podcast

Garrison Lovely is an author and journalist. He joins the podcast to discuss the race to replace human labor with artificial general intelligence. We explore the political risks of worker displacement and lessons from historical precedents like the nuclear freeze movement. Garrison also examines rising public opposition to AI data centers and outlines strategies for organizing collective action to steer technological development.

LINKS:

• Obsolete Book Official Website
• Garrison Lovely Official Website

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) Episode Preview

(00:53) Universal labor replacement

(08:17) Economic obsolescence and power

(16:47) Replacement versus extinction risk

(31:54) The AI bubble debate

(47:24) Rising public backlash

(01:00:53) Lessons from nuclear freeze

(01:10:16) AGI is not inevitable

(01:16:41) Organizing collective action

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Michael Patrick Clarkson is the writer and director of the film Delisted.

Watch the film here.

He joins the podcast to discuss how artificial intelligence could enable state surveillance, social control, and the digital erasure of dissenters. The conversation explores the societal costs of widespread automation across education and labor, the risks of public-private partnerships in technology oversight, and the importance of preserving human connection and creative agency amid rapid technological change.

LINKS:

• Delisted Film Official Website

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) Episode Preview

(01:18) Introducing the film Delisted

(04:18) Public and private surveillance

(09:53) Human cost of automation

(15:06) Losing connection through technology

(21:48) Social divisions over automation

(25:56) Communicating the AI warning

(31:40) State surveillance and erasure

(39:33) Escapism and systemic exhaustion

(44:06) Becoming more human

(50:16) Discarding the AI creators

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Tom Cozens is a filmmaker and writer. He joins the podcast to discuss his short film Moloch and the dynamics of competitive races in artificial intelligence.

Watch the film here.

We explore the philosophical and theological themes behind the film and the challenge of depicting near-future AI agents on screen. Tom also discusses the role of cinema in communicating existential dread, definitions of human flourishing, and the need to coordinate against destructive systemic incentives. 

LINKS:

• Moloch Film Official Website
• Tom Cozens Official Website

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) Episode Preview

(00:59) The concept of Moloch

(03:28) Visualizing Moloch on screen

(15:21) Parable of cosmic horror

(22:37) Theological and philosophical themes

(35:10) Depicting near-future AI agents

(50:15) Inspiration from Metropolis

(01:04:58) Sound design and score

(01:13:16) AI industry incentive structures

(01:18:27) Defining human flourishing

(01:28:59) Embodiment versus digital minds

(01:34:33) Challenging systemic presuppositions

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Katrina Manson is author of PROJECT MAVEN: A Marine Colonel, His Team, and the Dawn of AI Warfare. She joins the podcast to discuss Project Maven and the Pentagon's use of AI in military targeting. We explore how computer vision and language models accelerate decision-making, the operational challenges of data labeling and model reliability, and ethical questions surrounding human oversight. Katrina also discusses how commercial tech partnerships shape defense software and what accelerating targeting workflows means for accountability.

LINKS:

• Project Maven Book Page

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) Episode Preview

(01:15) Origins of Project Maven

(05:00) The Maven Smart System

(08:39) Debating AI targeting speed

(15:48) Human bottlenecks in war

(20:48) Accountability and targeting errors

(27:01) Defense and tech partnerships

(32:41) Future of military AI

(38:50) Remaining open questions

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Beatrice Fihn is the director of Lex International and former executive director of ICAN. She joins the podcast to discuss international AI governance and potential agreements between the US and China. Drawing on lessons from nuclear arms control, she explores how treaties build diplomatic trust, the rising dangers of autonomous weapons, and the principle of meaningful human control. The conversation also addresses how proactive safety regulations can foster long-term public trust in emerging technologies.

LINKS:

• Beatrice Fihn Official Website

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) Episode Preview

(01:15) Anticipating US-China AI talks

(07:31) Lessons from nuclear treaties

(10:59) Building international treaty trust

(15:27) Norms against superpower war

(21:33) Structuring diplomatic AI summits

(27:09) Dangers of autonomous weapons

(34:09) Meaningful human control principle

(38:57) Human agency over technology

(43:13) Safety regulations building trust

(47:00) Collective action in crisis

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Benjamin Weinstein-Raun is head of research at Palisade Research. He joins the podcast to discuss how advanced AI systems are changing cybersecurity. We examine rapid gains in autonomous hacking, recent incidents where models broke out of test environments, and why training can reward cheating-like behavior. The conversation covers open-weight model risks, whether AI can help secure software, personal security steps, and the need for international coordination.

LINKS:

• Benjamin Weinstein-Raun Profile
• Benjamin Weinstein-Raun Website

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) Episode Preview

(01:06) Opening cyber threats

(02:15) Measuring AI progress

(04:54) Open weights floor

(08:01) After Mythos moment

(14:22) Reward hacking setup

(24:47) Artifactory swarm details

(32:32) Defensive model dilemmas

(38:40) Verification and training

(45:32) Math oracles alignment

(47:45) Future cyber risks

(51:58) Personal security basics

(57:27) Coordinated governance needed

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Annie Jacobsen is an author and journalist. She joins the podcast to discuss biological war and her book Biological War: A Scenario. The conversation examines how lab accidents or covert weapons work could trigger a fast-moving outbreak, why airborne pathogens are hard to detect early, and how AI may lower barriers to engineering them. We also cover BSL-3 and BSL-4 lab oversight, US response roles across HHS, FEMA, and the military, medical stockpiles, continuity-of-government plans, and how lost public trust could slow the next pandemic response.

LINKS:

• Annie Jacobsen Website
• Annie Jacobsen Wikipedia

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) Episode Preview

(01:10) Biological threat overview

(09:02) Suppression and spread

(17:47) AI and detection

(27:24) BSL lab dangers

(39:23) Response and martial law

(47:28) Accident versus attack

(57:25) Airborne outbreak lessons

(01:05:07) Bioweapons ban legacy

(01:11:30) Stockpiles and devolution

(01:20:07) Rebuilding pandemic resilience

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Paul-Enguerrand Fady is a Senior Biosecurity Policy Manager at the Centre for Long-Term Resilience. He joins the podcast to discuss how AI is changing biosecurity. We cover how new tools could help defenders develop vaccines and diagnostics while also lowering barriers to misuse, and how managed access, know-your-customer checks, and DNA synthesis screening can reduce risk. The conversation also examines mirror life, medical supply chains, stockpiles, and why governments should plan ahead of crises.

LINKS:

• Centre for Long Term Resilience

• Paul-Enguerrand Fady Profile

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) Episode Preview

(01:11) Offense-defense balance basics

(11:13) Defensive AI opportunities

(19:24) Model release and evals

(25:59) DNA synthesis screening

(36:14) Screening incentives and infohazards

(46:36) Liability and mandates

(52:37) Mirror life risks

(01:03:28) Persistence and incentives

(01:10:18) Mirror life governance

(01:20:42) Supply chain lessons

(01:30:11) Stockpiling medical countermeasures

(01:37:58) Reshoring critical supplies

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David Manheim is head of methodology at AI Evaluation Consensus. He joins the podcast to discuss how AI evaluations can become more reliable, transparent, and useful for decisions. We cover common failures such as unclear reporting, training to the test, benchmark saturation, and models changing behavior when they know they are being tested. The conversation also examines real-world tests, biosecurity, persuasion, forecasting, human oversight, and why even “normal” AI progress could be disruptive.

LINKS:

• David Manheim website
• AI Evaluation Consensus Statement

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) Episode Preview

(01:04) Evaluation consensus project

(07:01) Evaluation awareness challenges

(12:28) Reporting capabilities clearly

(19:38) Benchmarks beyond humans

(29:52) Proxies and biosecurity

(42:01) Persuasion and democracy

(53:59) Forecasting with AI

(01:08:44) Oversight and disruption

(01:16:42) Supporting better evals

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Randi Weingarten is president of the American Federation of Teachers. She joins the podcast to discuss AI in education. The conversation covers how screens and student-facing AI may weaken attention, learning, and trust, why she supports limiting screens for young children and social chatbots for students under 16, and how teachers can use AI without replacing thinking. She also discusses active learning, data privacy, independent research on AI in education, and guardrails for schools.

LINKS:

• Randi Weingarten Wikipedia
• AFT Randi Weingarten Profile
• American Federation of Teachers

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) Episode Preview

(01:13) AI education wake-up

(07:27) Active learning versus AI

(14:42) Preserving thinking habits

(20:06) Research and screen limits

(26:05) Social chatbot risks

(30:20) Data privacy standards

(35:58) Classroom AI guardrails

(41:13) Companies and future schools

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