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Welcome back to the Grey Dynamics podcast. This week we are talking to Lewis Sage-Passant about the obscure and understudied world of private sector intelligence. Lewis is the Global Head of Intelligence at a major pharmaceutical company and an Adjunct Professor at Science Po. Previously, Lewis served in the British Armed Forces and worked in private intelligence roles in the energy, banking and software sectors. His new book, “Beyond States and Spies: The Security Intelligence Services of the Private Sector” provides an overview of corporate intelligence structures and functions. We discussed how intelligence interacts with different industries, industrial espionage, controversial firms and much more.

Find Lewis Sage-Passant:

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We Spoke About:

0:45 Lewis’ background

4:28 The differences between working in government and private intelligence

8:37 Lewis’ previous experience with a travel risk start-up

13:32 Why Lewis wrote his new book, Beyond States and Spies: The Security Intelligence Services of the Private Sector

18:06 What is the difference between in-house corporate intelligence teams and private intelligence vendors/service providers, and how do they interact?

21:23 The variety of private intelligence service providers

24:48 The role the oil and gas industry has played in developing in-house intelligence capabilities

26:40 Pharmaceutical companies have developed intelligence capabilities, how do they use them?

31:20 How does private sector intelligence interact with the professional sports industry?

34:15 What role does government play in the private sector in cases of state-sponsored industrial espionage

40:17 Is the line between state and private intelligence capabilities blurring, and will it lead to regulation?

44:25 How much can governments influence the activities of the private sector?

45:48 Cooperation on dual-use technologies and supply chain risk

48:29 Controversial private intelligence firms and tactics

52:05 Advice for people trying to get into private intelligence

56:28 Cultural recommendations

1:00:44 What did Lewis not cover in the book?

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