As the second Trump administration dismantles federal DEI programs and removes trans Americans from the military, the crusade on “wokeness” seems to be a core focus of the president’s second term. In this encore episode, host Jerusalem Demsas speaks with the New York Times columnist Michelle Goldberg about the end of wokeness and why we might miss it when it’s gone. 

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If researchers could go back in time 100,000 years, they’d find at least three different types of humans walking the Earth. Today, only the dominant group, Homo sapiens, survives. The scientist Johannes Krause explains how new discoveries in paleontology and genetics help pinpoint the exact period in which human groups interbred. Understanding this timeline, he says, brings us closer to understanding what makes modern humans unique. 

Further reading: 

“Earliest Modern Human Genomes Constrain Timing of Neanderthal Admixture,” by Johannes Krause, et al. 

“Neanderthal Ancestry Through Time: Insights From Genomes of Ancient and Present-Day Humans,” by Leonardo N. M. Iasi, et al.

“DOGE Is Failing on Its Own Terms,” by David Deming 

Interview with Svante Pääbo, 2022 Nobel laureate in physiology or medicine

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Why do governments educate their citizens? More than 200 years ago, Western regimes shifted the responsibility of education from the family to the state. The political scientist Agustina Paglayan argues that this transition happened not in pursuit of democratic ideals, but in the interest of social control. 

Further reading: 

Raised to Obey: The Rise and Spread of Mass Education, by Agustina Paglayan 

“How Reconstruction Created American Public Education," by Adam Harris 

“Was Weber Wrong? A Human Capital Theory of Protestant Economic History,” by Sascha O. Becker Ludger Woessmann

“Understanding Education Policy Preferences: Survey Experiments with Policymakers in 35 Developing Countries,” by Lee Crawfurd, et al.  

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We’re often told that there’s “no room for politics at work,” and yet the workplace is one of the most politically segregated spaces in adult life. The Harvard economics researcher Sahil Chinoy explains the self-sorting happening at every stage of professional life and the trade-offs workers are willing to make in pursuit of ideological uniformity.

Further reading: 

“Political Sorting in the U.S. Labor Market: Evidence and Explanations,” by Sahil Chinoy and Martin Koenen

“The Political Polarization of Corporate America,” by Vyacheslav Fos, et al. 

“Politics at Work” by Emanuele Colonnelli, et al. 

“Does Communicating Measurable Diversity Goals Attract or Repel Historically Marginalized Job Applicants? Evidence From the Lab and Field” by Erika Kirgios, et al. 

The study behind Sahil Chinoy’s Good on Paper answer: “Pitfalls of Demographic Forecasts of US Elections”

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Most gun deaths aren’t premeditated, so how can we stop gun violence before it happens? The University of Chicago economist Jens Ludwig makes the case for thinking differently about the source of America’s gun-violence problem. 

Further reading: 



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Seven years after the Supreme Court struck down a ban on state-sanctioned sports betting, a more complete picture of the downstream effects of legalization is starting to emerge. As some states see debt delinquency and problem gambling increase, the journalist Danny Funt explains why lawmakers took a gamble on sports betting in the first place. 

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Government reform isn’t an exclusively partisan issue, so why does it seem to fall under the purview of Republicans? The researcher Jennifer Pahlka says Democrats need to “get in the game” of government reform and consider working with, instead of against, the aims of DOGE. 

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Editor’s note: After this episode aired, MIT issued a statement raising concerns about the integrity of Aidan Toner-Rodgers's working paper “Artificial Intelligence, Scientific Discovery, and Product Innovation,” and recommending that the paper be withdrawn. The open-access research repository arXiv, where the paper was originally posted, has removed it from its archive, citing “concerns about the validity of the data and incomplete Institutional Review Board requirements.” The Atlantic reached out to Toner-Rodgers for comment but has so far not received a response.

Amid handwringing about AI’s effect on jobs, creativity, trust, and the environment, a new study shows the technology’s profound impact on scientific productivity. Aidan Toner-Rodgers, a Ph.D. candidate at MIT, recounts his research that shows the benefits and drawbacks of using AI to discover new scientific materials. 

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What makes someone a NIMBY? The prevailing theory suggests that people support or reject new housing in their neighborhood based on what’s best for them personally. The political scientist David Broockman provides a different explanation—one based on people’s beliefs about important symbols such as cities or tall buildings, rather than self-interest.

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Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is poised to lead the Department of Health and Human Services under President-Elect Donald Trump. He has said “there’s no vaccine that is safe and effective,” but Dr. Rachael Bedard, a pro-vaccine and left-leaning physician, says opponents should still seek common ground with him. 

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