Gospelbound

Is there a fate worse than condemnation? 

Yes, say Allen Guelzo and James Hankins in their new textbook, The Golden Thread: A History of the Western Tradition: Volume II: The Modern and Contemporary West. Worse than everyone hating you is no one remembering you.  

Right now for Western civilization, the former is leading to the latter. Having been widely condemned as oppressive, imperialist, colonizing, and appropriating, Western civilization is sometimes not even taught, let alone celebrated for producing the moral, technological, political, economic, and lifestyle achievements that give shape to our world. The Golden Thread helps in remembering and teaching without ignoring the failures and shortcomings of Western civilization.

The textbook collaborators Guelzo and Hankins have been acquainted for more than 50 years. Hankins wrote volume one, and Guelzo has written volume two. Guelzo is the Thomas W. Smith Distinguished Research Scholar and director of the James Madison Program’s Initiative on Politics and Statesmanship at Princeton University. Guelzo is a long-time favorite writer of mine, not least for his work on the American Civil War and Abraham Lincoln, for which he last appeared on Gospelbound in 2024. I’m honored to host him again as we commemorate the 250th anniversary of the founding of the United States, one of the hinge points in Western civilization in that memorable year of 1776.

In This Episode:

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You will find many books on the biblical and practical importance of the local church. I wrote one myself a few years ago with Jonathan Leeman called Rediscover Church: Why the Body of Christ Is Essential. But few books can match the way Brad Edwards shows us the need for the church amid rampant anxiety, division, and individualism. Not only our churches but even whole societies would be transformed by implementing the wisdom found in this book, called The Reason for Church. 

Brad is the church planter of The Table Church in Lafayette, Colorado. His debut book has been justly acclaimed. He won the 2025 Christianity Today Book of the Year Award and also finished first in the Church and Pastoral Leadership category. He was the winner of The Gospel Coalition's award for First-Time Author that year as well. I’m grateful that he joins me now to talk about everything from authority and institutions to anxiety and whether unity should be the goal for a church.

In This Episode:

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Tim Keller preached a series of sermons in the 1990s called “The Faces of Sin.” It did not go over well in New York. Angered by the liturgical confession of sin, one woman waited until after the sermon and yelled at Tim, “Neither I nor any of my children will ever confess to being sinners!” 

Naturally, Tim’s wife, Kathy, decided these would make good sermons to turn into a book! That’s what we have in the new book What Is Wrong with the World? The Surprising, Hopeful Answer to the Question We Cannot Avoid, published by Zondervan.

One quote I think captures the book’s argument: “When we realize we are not a victim of our circumstances but a sinner who can call on someone much greater than ourselves to care for us, we can begin to truly live.”

That’s the surprisingly hopeful message of the gospel: our sin is the problem with the world. But all of us can be saved by grace when we confess that sin, repent of that sin, and trust in Christ. Easy enough, right? Remember that woman in New York. It’s no small thing to confess your sin. And ALL of us must confess our sin. Here’s what Tim wrote: “No other religion says that the lowest person in the gutter and the most moral, upstanding citizen in the world are equally lost, equally need to be saved by grace, and can only be saved by grace alone.”

What an honor to be joined again on Gospelbound by Kathy Keller about sin, grace, and the gospel.

In This Episode:
00:00 – Cold open: “the sin beneath the sin”
00:39 – Introducing Tim Keller’s Faces of Sin sermons and the new book
02:25 – Idolatry, grief, and losing what feels like “everything”
04:15 – Blind spots, community, and uncovering hidden sins
07:14 – “What’s wrong with the world?” starting with ourselves
08:13 – G. K. Chesterton and the sins of omission
11:31 – The gospel is bitter at first bite and sweet within
15:55 – Missing Tim and resting in God’s grace
16:48 – “Nathans,” correction, and giving one another “hunting licenses”
18:30 – Parenting regrets and learning consequences the hard way
22:22 – Why the gospel gives hope in the face of failure
22:52 – How Tim Keller is misunderstood today
30:43 – The Hopewell years and learning mercy ministry
34:55 – Kathy’s favorite Tim Keller book: Jonah / The Prodigal Prophet
37:57 – The books Tim Keller hoped to write
40:25 – “Identity received or achieved” and unfinished work
41:35 – Closing reflections
42:02 – Outro

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Western culture today largely lacks a sense of consecration, of setting apart the ordinary as holy. Yet somehow we still have a strong impulse toward desecration, of turning the holy into the ordinary. Why have we lost the taste of the good while developing a taste for the bad? 

That’s a core question at the heart of Carl Trueman’s new book, The Desecration of Man: How the Rejection of God Degrades Our Humanity, published by Penguin Random House’s Sentinel imprint. Carl is a professor of biblical and theological studies at Grove City College and a fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center. He was a guest on Gospelbound in 2020 for his highly acclaimed, bestselling book The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self. 

In his new book Trueman writes, “Transgression of the sacred is exhilarating precisely because it makes us feel like gods, the creators of our own meanings and our own selves. All we need to do is cross lines previously enforced by the idea of God and we thereby assume the role of being gods.” Desecration is how we communicate authenticity, perhaps the most important value for the modern self. 

This entire project has backfired. Let’s hear from Carl about why.

In This Episode:
00:00 – Carl Trueman on desecration and the modern crisis of humanity
02:30 – Why write another book after The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self?
04:22 – Why the sexual revolution sits at the center of the story
06:11 – Cultural Christianity, conversion, and why truth still matters
10:30 – Nietzsche’s “madman” and the collapse of moral meaning
12:56 – Authenticity, evangelism, and the uphill battle against expressive individualism
18:23 – Do the revolutions of modernity actually deliver what they promise?
21:04 – Genetic selection, artificial wombs, and the moral vacuum of tech culture
27:29 – Social acceleration, anxiety, and the instability of modern life
30:23 – Technology, human limits, and the need for a normative view of humanity
35:58 – Assisted suicide, autonomy, and why stories matter more than abstractions
41:53 – The transgender movement, fairness, and transhumanism
45:44 – Why Christian nationalism is not the answer
49:40 – Creed, cult, code, congregational singing, and hospitality as a plan of consecration
55:53 – Outro

Resources Mentioned:

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Join Collin Hansen, Michael Graham, and Sarah Zylstra as they continue to look back on the top theology stories from the last 25 years. In part 1, they counted down stories #10 to #6. Now in part 2, Graham and Zylstra walk with Hansen through his stories #5 down to #1.

In This Episode:

Resources Mentioned:

— — —

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Join Collin Hansen, Michael Graham, and Sarah Zylstra as they look back on the top theology stories from the last 25 years. In part 1 of this two-part series, Graham and Zylstra walk with Hansen through his stories #10 down to #6.

Since the year 2000, religion in America has changed dramatically. As recently as the 1990s, religion in America was what Tim Keller called “thick”: In general, many clergy were held in high esteem, churches were respected, and people either belonged to a congregation or knew that would be a good idea.

Yet since 2000, the percent of religious Americans has dropped and the number of nones (no religion) has jumped up from 8 percent to 22 percent—and climbing.

So while social commentators lament how much time Americans spend on our screens, describe how views on sexuality have drastically changed, identify how our politics have become sharply polarized, and observe how mental health especially in Gen Z has declined, they often miss the biggest story of all, the one underneath all the others—the decline in attention and deference to God.

In This Episode:

00:00 — The Great Dechurching: belief vs. disaffiliation

Resources Mentioned:

— — —

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When we receive applications for fellows at The Keller Center for Cultural Apologetics, we ask them to answer the question, “What one thing should Christians do right now to introduce their neighbors to Jesus?” It’s not that we think there’s only one answer. It’s that we want them to identify the top priority. Last year we were surprised when every applicant gave the same answer. They talked about the public witness of gathered Christians, the church.

Maybe they were responding to negative press about the church, going back 25 years to the Catholic abuse scandal at the same time the internet became ubiquitous. Or maybe they were expressing renewed appreciation for the gathered church after the COVID-era shutdowns and public disorder. Either way, they were going back to biblical concept rooted in Israel’s testimony to the nations, and the early church in the book of Acts that found favor with all. 

Bob Thune is a fellow for the Keller Center and writes about this so-called ecclesial apologetics in a chapter for our new book, The Gospel After Christendom: An Introduction to Cultural Apologetics, published by Zondervan Reflective. He’s also a featured teacher in an exciting new video small-group curriculum called Making Sense of Us, published by The Gospel Coalition and Keller Center. His session, recorded against the backdrop of the Statue of Liberty in New York City, covers the cultural narrative we tell each other in the modern West about liberty. We believe this curriculum can help you, especially young adults, to both evangelize and edify. When you watch and study with other church members, and even non-Christians, you can learn together about the Bible’s better story about liberty, which we live out together in the church. 

In This Episode:

00:00 – A deeper freedom: set free from self for love 

00:32 – Keller Center fellows: why the gathered church matters for witness 

01:41 – Introducing Bob Thune, ecclesial apologetics, and Making Sense of Us 

02:39 – Lesslie Newbigin and a missionary posture toward the modern West 

05:06 – Is Omaha post-Christian? Modern Western culture everywhere 

06:34 – Ecclesial apologetics despite church messiness 

09:17 – Gospel doctrine and gospel culture (truth, goodness, beauty) 

11:03 – Christian hospitality: making room for outsiders with conviction and listening 

17:03 – Why this differs from the seeker movement 

19:10 – Transition to Making Sense of Us: liberty and the Statue of Liberty backdrop 

20:16 – Modern misconception: freedom as “freedom from” (negative liberty) 

22:17 – Galatians 5: freedom subverted and fulfilled—freedom for love and service 

24:48 – Choice as happiness: dislodging the assumption pastorally 

26:55 – Cultural pressure points: teen mental health, friendship decline, obligation 

29:15 – Autonomy and assisted dying/euthanasia debates 

31:56 – More choice, more frustration: speech platforms and “Netflix paralysis” 

33:50 – Patience for contested proposals (post-liberalism, nationalism, etc.) 

35:01 – “Freedom for” the common good and a shared human project 

39:13 – Three church roles: solidarity-bringer, subversive fulfillment, alternative city 

43:27 – Augustine’s lesson: church power, loss, and enduring hope 

44:05 – Recommended reading and resources roundup 

Resources Mentioned:

• The Gospel After Christendom by Collin Hansen
• Making Sense of Us by John Starke, Rebecca McLaughlin, Sam Chan, Trevin Wax, Rachel Gilson, Bob Thune, Glen Scrivener, Michael Keller
• The Air We Breathe by Glen Scrivener 
• The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt 
• The Great Divorce by C.S. Lewis 
• Democracy and Solidarity by James Davison Hunter 
• City of God by Augustine of Hippo

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“Do any of us really want to be in the position where our retirement account grows in sync with the cancer ward?”

That’s the question posed by Robin John about tobacco, responsible for 100 million deaths in the last 100 years. Naturally all of us would say no, we don’t want to benefit from other people dying. Yet as Robin points out in his new book, The Good Investor: How Your Work Can Confront Injustice, Love Your Neighbor, and Bring Healing to the World, many of us do hold mutual funds that invest in tobacco companies. We just don’t know it. Come to think of it, how much do we know about any of our investments, especially in long-term retirement accounts?

Robin John is the cofounder and CEO of Eventide, an asset management firm dedicated to honoring God and investing in companies that create compelling value for the common good. His vision for Eventide's values-based investing shows how our work can benefit everyone and not just bolster the bottom line for a fortunate few. I’d go so far as to say our world can be a much better place if investors—and employees of all kinds—will learn from his example and prioritize what really matters now, and in eternity.

In This Episode
0:00 – Joy, purpose, and God’s design for everyday work
1:49 – Why The Good Investor is ultimately a book about joy
2:48 – Growing up in Kerala, India, and immigrating to the U.S.
4:42 – Community, individualism, and caring for the vulnerable
7:41 – Returning to India and confronting workplace injustice
10:49 – Rethinking success, profit, and the purpose of work
11:53 – Why Christians must examine their investments
14:33 – What does it mean to “root for” a company’s success?
15:36 – Discernment, gray areas, and biblical values in investing
18:07 – Avoiding evil and actively pursuing the common good
19:43 – Weaponry, conscience, and consistency at Eventide
20:13 – The cautionary story of Bill Hwang and ill-gotten gain
23:19 – The false divide between faith and work
25:07 – How investing has changed since 2008
27:14 – What ESG investing is—and where it diverges from Christianity
31:19 – Mission alignment vs. values alignment
32:23 – Encouragement for ordinary, faithful work
34:44 – Legacy, goodness, and hearing “well done”

Resources Mentioned

• The Good Investor by Robin John

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At the end of the class on cultural apologetics I teach at Beeson Divinity School, I assign a group exercise. The students need to compose 10 questions and answers from a modern-day catechism. Historically catechisms have emerged during times of cultural transition and confrontation—such as our own, in the aftermath of Christendom and the Enlightenment, awaiting whatever develops in post-liberalism.

So catechisms are not merely a relic of our past but a vital resource for the present that prepares us for the future. I’m delighted with how The New City Catechism, especially our devotional, still serves readers. And I’m delighted by a new volume, The Gospel Way Catechism: 50 Truths that Take on the World, published by Harvest House and written by my friends Trevin Wax and Thomas West.

Tim Keller said, “We need a counter-catechism that explains, refutes, and re-narrates the world’s catechisms to Christians.” And what’s what Trevin and Thomas have done in The Gospel Way Catechism. Trevin is vice president of research and resource development at the North American Mission Board. Thomas is the pastor of Nashville First Baptist Church.

In This Episode
00:00 – What’s wrong with the world: deeper than ignorance or injustice
00:34 – Collin’s “modern catechism” assignment and why catechisms return in transitions
01:03 – Introducing The Gospel Way Catechism and Keller’s “counter catechism” vision
01:36 – Welcoming Trevin Wax and Thomas West
01:54 – “Can Baptists write a catechism?” and Baptist catechesis history
02:57 – Influential catechisms: Keach, Spurgeon, Heidelberg, Luther, Calvin, Westminster
03:23 – Most controversial truths today: sexuality and deeper “me-first” narratives
04:51 – “What has gone wrong?”: ignorance, injustice, expressive individualism
07:14 – Moving beyond whack-a-mole to the Bible’s deeper diagnosis
09:37 – Western self-centeredness and sin as being “curved in on ourselves”
12:24 – Writing process and Keller’s influence: every catechism is counter-catechesis
13:48 – Origin story at The Kilns (C. S. Lewis’s home) and testing in a London church
15:45 – Objections: “we don’t need this” and why cultural frames change catechesis needs
20:18 – Returning from London: seeing American wealth, waste, and politics differently
24:13 – Why Leviticus gets a chapter: sacrifice, scapegoating, and modern idols
27:59 – Catechesis and spiritual formation: tools, Word-centeredness, and Gen Z hunger
31:38 – Encouragement from readers: cultural narratives filtered, doctrine re-centered
33:09 – In 20 years: transhumanism, bioethics, reproductive tech, assisted dying
36:06 – “What is human?” and “What is truth?”—new iterations of old questions
36:39 – Closing thanks and sign-off

Resources Mentioned

• The Gospel Way Catechism by Trevin Wax & Thomas West
• New City Catechism by Kathy Keller
• A Heart Aflame for God by Matthew Bingham

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Here in Birmingham, Alabama, I often teach about the civil-rights movement as the most effective faith-based movement for social change in American history. We have a bitter heritage of violent segregation. But the same city produced the heroes of the struggle, the ordinary men and women (especially children) who stared down the police dogs and fire hoses in the march for their freedom. 

Justin Giboney honors such heroes as pastor Fred Shuttlesworth and commends their example for today in an informative, provocative book, Don’t Let Nobody Turn You Around: How the Black Church’s Public Witness Leads Us Out of the Culture War, published by IVP. Justin is the cofounder and president of the AND Campaign. The endorsement of this book by Bob Roberts calls Justin a “strange mix of Tim Keller and Martin Luther King Jr. wrapped up in his own personality and voice.” High praise!

In This Episode
00:00 – Jesus, truth, and critiquing our own side 
00:33 – Birmingham, civil rights, and faith-based social change 
01:00 – Introducing Don’t Let Nobody Turn You Around 
01:40 – The burden behind writing the book 
03:07 – Family history and the Black church tradition 
04:05 – Why Fred Shuttlesworth matters 
05:14 – “Biblicist and actionist”: faith and public courage 
06:05 – Nonviolence, moral discipline, and leadership 
07:11 – Shuttlesworth and King: contrasts and complements 
09:23 – Why moral progress isn’t inevitable 
12:10 – Moral imagination and Christian hope 
15:57 – What is the culture war? 18:44 – Humility, self-critique, and redeemable opponents 
21:29 – Justice, moral order, and refusing false binaries 
22:51 – King, the late 1960s, and the cost of a “third way” 
25:26 – Militancy, frustration, and historical context 
28:01 – Why Christians can’t abandon character 
31:12 – Tyranny, violence, and ending debate by force 
33:18 – Advice for young activists 
35:19 – Frederick Douglass and critiquing your own movement 
38:37 – Accountability, power, and political humility 
43:36 – Christian nationalism and historical amnesia 
47:24 – Final encouragement: civility, faithfulness, and hope 

Resources Mentioned

• Don't Let Nobody Turn You Around: How the Black Church's Public Witness Leads Us out of the Culture War by Justin Giboney

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