People are getting vaccinated, but it’s not happening quickly enough. Case counts are dropping fast, but a near-record number of people are still sick. Do we have reason for optimism? Or could optimism still get us in trouble?

Alexis Madrigal and Robinson Meyer, staff writers and co-founders of the COVID Tracking Project at The Atlantic, join Jim and Maeve this week.

Where is Katherine? She’s still working on The Experiment, which launches next week! Hosted by WNYC’s Julia Longoria, the new podcast will examine the myths and ideas at the heart of the American experiment and the way powerful forces of history collide with our everyday lives. The trailer’s beautiful. Check it out here. And the first episode drops February 4th.

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