The most toxic issue of our times – why have trans rights become such a bitter question in politics, sport, and even bathrooms? Some feminists say allowing those born biologically male to identify and be treated as female risks rolling back hard-won rights for women. Trans activists say it is a matter of human rights, and another aspect of the battle for recognition and acceptance already largely won by gay men, bisexuals, and lesbians. It’s a debate that has descended into name-calling, cancelling and threats of violence, but Phil and Roger nevertheless attempt to see if there’s a way, at least, to define the terms - what exactly do we mean by “sex” and “gender”? – and explore why there is so much anger on both sides. We get the views of the journalist Jo Bartosch who has written widely, and controversially, about the subject. Two middle-aged white men plunge into one of the most acrimonious culture battles of the 21st century. What could possibly go wrong?

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