This week, Kelly talks with Johns Hopkins Professor Francis J. Gavin about his new book, Thinking Historically: A Guide to Statecraft and Strategy (Yale University Press, 2025). The book looks at how history could be utilized to improve policy and enable better decision-making. It argues for a "historical sensibility" as a practical discipline—one that captures the real constraints decision-makers face, complicates easy assumptions, and trains us to see the unexpected by understanding others on their own terms. In doing so, it bridges the gap between historians and practitioners, showing how careful engagement with the past can sharpen statecraft and strategy in the present.

Francis J. Gavin is the Giovanni Agnelli Distinguished Professor and the inaugural director of the Henry A. Kissinger Center for Global Affairs at Johns Hopkins SAIS. Previously, he was the first Frank Stanton Chair in Nuclear Security Policy Studies at MIT. He is a contributing editor at War on the Rocks and has authored or edited eight books.

Link to the book: https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300278361/thinking-historically/

The opinions expressed in this conversation are strictly those of the participants and do not represent the views of Georgetown University or any government entity.

Produced by Abdalla Nasef and Freddie Mallinson.

Recorded on 03 November, 2025. Diplomatic Immunity, a podcast from the Institute for the Study of Diplomacy at Georgetown University, brings you frank and candid conversations with experts on the issues facing diplomats and national security decision-makers around the world.

Funding support from the Carnegie Corporation of New York.

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