Matt Kroll, President of Personal Care Services at Bayada Home Health Care, joins host David Knack for a deep dive into the lessons from his 25-year career. Matt opens up about his biggest strategic mistake: trying to launch and manage too many different service lines at once in a search for an "easy way out," which diluted focus and resources. He explains how learning to master one thing before diversifying became the key to successfully scaling operations across over 100 offices.

Matt shares Bayada's relentless focus on caregiver recognition, wages, and career advancement as their cultural north star. The conversation delves into the critical balance between investing in caregivers and maintaining financial health, the underrated need for the home care industry to embrace healthcare outcomes and data, and how Bayada is using predictive AI models to prevent hospitalizations and improve care.

Lesson Takeaways:

1. Master One Thing Before You Diversify: The temptation to add new services when one gets challenging is strong, but it dilutes focus. True success comes from building excellence and infrastructure in one core service before expanding.

2. Link Short-Term Actions to Long-Term Vision: Avoid the exhausting cycle of week-to-week reactivity. Build business rhythms that connect daily and weekly metrics to quarterly and annual goals to create proactive, sustainable momentum.

3. Invest in Quality and Support, Not Just Wages: While competitive pay is crucial, caregivers and families deeply value consistent, reliable support. Investing in quality supervision and being present for your team builds loyalty and better care outcomes.

4. Embrace Data as a Healthcare Partner: To secure our place in the healthcare ecosystem, we must move beyond satisfaction metrics. Tracking and improving clinical outcomes like falls and hospitalizations demonstrates our value to payers and referral sources.

5. "Embrace the Chaos" with Consistent Execution: Private pay home care is inherently volatile. The key isn't controlling every discharge or admission, but maintaining consistent marketing, admissions, and quality efforts over the long term, like running a marathon.

Timestamps: 00:00 - The privilege of care and what hooked Matt for 25 years

04:43 - The alternate path: Wall Street and the importance of relationships

06:50 - Bayada's cultural markers: Recognition, wages, and caregiver advancement

08:40 - The financial equation: Investing in caregivers while maintaining margins

11:30 - The big mistake: Trying to do too many things at once

14:25 - How to thoughtfully diversify payer sources (Medicaid vs. Private Pay)

16:40 - The underrated thing: Embracing our role in the healthcare ecosystem

18:20 - The metrics that matter: Tracking falls, hospitalizations, and ER visits

21:30 - Using predictive AI and care data to prevent adverse events

26:45 - Managing at scale: Building business rhythms beyond week-to-week volatility

29:50 - The little mistake: Managing week-to-week instead of long-term

32:15 - The importance of betting on quality and supervision

35:10 - A recent win: Using data to drive a new "Enhanced Quality of Care" model

37:45 - What to plug: Getting involved with industry advocacy

Quotes: Matt Kroll: "I think what I learned is... the need to have a plan to be really good at one thing before you start trying to do multiple things."

Matt Kroll: "Quality isn't just about going out and supervising to make sure things are done right. It's about being there when the caregivers and when the families need you."

David Knack: "If all we are as a home care agency is a staffing company, it's gonna be really hard to compete... If you are finding other ways to add value... you make their life so many multiples better."

David Knack: "You've got to stop being the 'hit by a bus' problems in our own businesses. It's gotta get out of our brains... thanks to the innovations of AI, you can systematize that knowledge."

Resources:

1. Connect with Matt Kroll on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-kroll/

2. Learn more about Bayada Home Health Care: https://www.bayada.com/

3. Get involved with the Home Care Association of America (HCAOA): https://www.hcaoa.org/

4. Connect with David Knack on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-knack/

5. Powered by Zingage: https://zingage.com

6. Watch this episode on Zingage's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Zingage

Shauna Sweeney, founder and CEO of Tender Care, joins host David Knack to discuss the pivotal mistake that reshaped her approach to building technology for families navigating aging and care. Shauna, a former Facebook executive who entered the care space while caring for her father with Alzheimer's, opens up about how she initially overlooked a simple, physical solution, the Tender ID, because it didn't fit the "tech founder" mold.

She shares how clinging to the vision of a complex, all-in-one digital platform delayed solving a critical, immediate need: giving first responders instant access to vital health information during emergencies. Shauna explains why "letting what a founder is supposed to look like get in the way of actually solving the problem" was a costly error, and how embracing a tangible, QR-based tool unlocked rapid adoption and real impact.

The conversation explores the underrated power of video for home care marketing, the small mistake of ignoring online reputation, and how the industry must adapt to a more tech-savvy, time-starved family decision-maker. Shauna also shares exciting news about journalist Lisa Ling joining Tender Care as Chief Caregiver Advocate to amplify stories of care.

Lesson Takeaways:

1. Problems Need Solutions, Not Your Ego: Don't let preconceived notions of what a "tech company" or "founder" should be stop you from building what the market clearly needs. If a simple, tangible solution works, build it, even if it's not the sleek software you envisioned.

2. Control What You Can Promise: Before building complex integrations reliant on other systems, start with solutions you can fully control and deliver flawlessly. This builds trust and allows you to make and keep clear promises to your users.

3. Show Your Humanity on Video: Home care is built on trust and human connection. Underutilized video is a powerful tool to let families see the compassionate, real people behind your agency. Authenticity beats polished production every time.

4. Tend Your Digital Reputation: A single unanswered negative review can undermine years of trust-building. Proactively manage your online presence; it's a small task with a massive impact on a family's decision to choose you.

5. Competition is Heating Up, Differentiate: As demand grows, so does competition. Compete on quality, trust, and hyper-local, personalized relationships. Big agencies must learn to "stay big but feel small" to win.

Timestamps: 00:00 – Introduction to Shauna Sweeney and Tender Care's mission

02:10 – Shauna's background: From Facebook to family caregiver

05:30 – The recurring mistake: Ignoring market signal for a physical product

08:45 – The "Tender ID": A simple QR code that replaces the Vial of Life

11:13 – How the ID triggers emergency alerts and stabilizes families

16:10 – Letting founder ego block the right solution

20:18 – The most underrated tool in home care: Authentic video marketing

25:22 – The little mistake: Neglecting your online review reputation

28:09 – The future of home care: Tech-savvy buyers and hyper-local trust

33:20 – A recent win: Lisa Ling joins Tender Care as Chief Caregiver Advocate

35:07 – How to get Tender IDs for your clients and join the trusted network

Quotes: Shauna Sweeney: "My big mistake was letting the better of what one is supposed to look like when solving a problem, get in the way of actually solving the problem. As soon as we actually built these [Tender IDs], they started to go. It's the classic story of the fish jumping into the boat."

Shauna Sweeney: "Every day you have to choose to be in service of the solution more than your ego. You have to want to solve the problem more than you want to look cool."

David Knack: "If all we are as a home care agency is a staffing company, it's gonna be really hard to compete... If you are finding other ways to add value, to provide useful resources... it doesn't matter that you cost 20% more, you make their life so many multiples better that they'll pay it."

David Knack: "Families are gonna fall in love with you. You just have to go out there and let them."

Resources:

1. Connect with Shauna Sweeney on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shaunas/

2. Learn more about Tender Care and the Tender ID: https://trytendercare.com/

3. Apply to join the Tender Care Trusted Network: https://trytendercare.com/join-the-network/

4. Connect with David Knack on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-knack/

5. Powered by Zingage: https://zingage.com

6. Watch this episode on Zingage's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Zingage

Michelle Cone, SVP of Industry Engagement at HomeWell Franchising, joins host David Knack for a conversation that spans from marathon running to mission-driven leadership. Michelle opens up about the career mistake that shaped her trajectory: playing it safe early on and not taking enough risks. She explains how saying "yes" to an unfamiliar role in home care as an inexperienced mom became the turning point that led to a 27-year career.

Michelle dives into the underrated core of home care: delivering exceptional quality care as the ultimate growth engine. She unpacks why a strong intake process is a make-or-break function, how to avoid common pitfalls that waste time and trust, and why the industry's shift toward value-based care means every agency must pay attention to CMS and healthcare ecosystem changes, even if they're private-pay.

The conversation also explores how to use AI and automation to free up time for human connection, why the best caregivers don't want to work with "bozos," and how to build a culture where mission drives every operational decision.

Lesson Takeaways:

1. Take the Leap Before You Feel Ready: Waiting for the perfect moment or full confidence can cost you career-defining opportunities. Often, the best growth comes from saying "yes" and stretching into the unknown.

2. Quality Care is Your Best Marketing: Your first client and the quality of care you deliver set the tone for everything; caregiver recruitment, retention, client satisfaction, and community reputation. Start small, excel, and let the results speak.

3. Master the Intake Conversation: A great intake process isn't about selling, it's about listening, educating, and qualifying. By understanding a caller's real needs and fears, you build trust whether they become a client or not.

4. Automate the Robotic, Humanize the Relational: Use technology to handle administrative tasks so your team can focus on what matters: in-person introductions, caregiver support, and building trust with clients and families.

5. Pay Attention to the Healthcare Ecosystem: Even if you're private-pay, changes in CMS, Medicaid, and hospital-at-home models impact your referral sources and market opportunities. Ignoring these shifts is a strategic mistake.

Timestamps: 00:00 – The loneliness of caregiving and the need for human connection

02:10 – Introducing Michelle Cone and her role at HomeWell Franchising

05:30 – The mistake of avoiding risk early in her career

08:45 – How a scheduling coordinator job changed her life

11:20 – Why self-awareness and team diversity drive success

14:50 – The most underrated thing in home care: exceptional quality care

18:10 – Why your best caregivers don't want to work with "bozos"

21:45 – The shiny object trap: AI, tech, and keeping the human touch

24:30 – How a solid intake process transforms conversion and trust

30:15 – Turning lost leads into future clients with education and empathy

34:00 – Michelle's recent win: Record franchise growth at HomeWell

36:20 – How to connect with HomeWell and explore franchising

Quotes: Michelle Cone: "I wish in my earlier career I would've taken more risks. You're building confidence, you're becoming a subject matter expert, and we all face imposter syndrome. Take the jump and then stretch."

Michelle Cone: "Your greatest asset starts with your very first client and providing exceptional care to that client. Great quality client care is your greatest acquisition tool; for clients, for caregivers, for retention."

David Knack: "Your best caregivers don't want to work with inconsistent caregivers or bad hires. If they feel like they're the only ones who care, they'll wonder if they're in the right organization."

David Knack: "The question is: what parts of the scheduler role can we automate to prevent them from being stuck in the office and instead allow them to be in clients' homes doing introductions?"

Resources:

1. Learn more about HomeWell Franchising: https://homewellfranchising.com/

2. Find a HomeWell agency near you: https://homewellcares.com/

3. Connect with Michelle Cone on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-cone-748378127/

4. Connect with David Knack on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-knack/

5. Powered by Zingage: https://zingage.com

6. Watch this episode on Zingage's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Zingage

Jessica Nobles, co-founder of Home Care Ops, joins host David Knack for a powerful conversation about the two mistakes that have defined her 20-year journey in home care.

Jessica opens up about the entrepreneurial identity crisis that left her burned out and unfulfilled, living as an "empire builder" when she's truly a "lifestyle entrepreneur." She reveals how this misalignment drained her joy and impacted her team, and shares the framework to help every business owner define their own path to success. The conversation then dives into the tactical hiring mistake she's made "over and over and over again": bringing people onto the team without a clear onboarding plan.

Jessica unpacks her "P.O.I.N.T." system, a practical, step-by-step method to get any new hire integrated, confident, and productive in their first six weeks. She also shares the three pillars of a thriving team culture, why "there's no such thing as a difficult conversation, only one that was waited too long to have," and how to use AI to escape the "hit-by-a-bus" problem of institutional knowledge.

Lesson Takeaways:

1. Know Your Entrepreneurial Type: Success isn't one-size-fits-all. Define whether you're a Lifestyle Entrepreneur (building for freedom/fulfillment), an Empire Builder (focused on growth and scale), or a Serial Entrepreneur (pursuing multiple ventures). Aligning your business with your true type prevents burnout and creates lasting satisfaction.

2. Prepare the Soil Before You Plant: Never hire someone before you're ready. Create a "P.O.I.N.T." plan (Plan, Outcome, Intent, Next Steps, Team/Timeline) for their first 14 days and six weeks. This saves time, money, and frustration, and sets the new hire—and your business—up for success.

3. Build on Three Pillars: Foster a culture of transparent communication, clear & defined expectations, and supportive accountability. When these are in place, trust grows, performance improves, and difficult conversations become proactive check-ins.

4. Delegate the "80%" to Gain Momentum: Let go of perfection. If your team can accomplish 80% of a task as well as you can, delegate it. This moves you from reactive maintenance to strategic momentum, freeing you to scale instead of just surviving.

5. Separate Your Identity from Your Business: Your worth is not defined by your revenue or hours delivered. To avoid burnout and lead sustainably, consciously separate who you are from what your business does, and anchor your sense of success in your personal priorities and impact.

Timestamps:00:00 - Introduction to Jessica Nobles and Home Care Ops

01:58 - The patterns of success: strategic planning and empowered delegation

04:16 - Moving from reactive maintenance to proactive momentum

05:32 - David's "big mistake" question

06:12 - The entrepreneurial mistake: Living as the wrong type of founder

09:48 - The three entrepreneurial types: Lifestyle, Empire Builder, and Serial

11:26 - Chasing external milestones vs. finding internal fulfillment

13:32 - Redefining success around life priorities, not just business metrics

16:18 - The tactical mistake: Hiring before you're ready

20:22 - The "P.O.I.N.T." framework for successful onboarding

23:08 - "New level, same devil"—why hiring mistakes repeat at every stage

26:53 - The three pillars to prevent hiring failures

29:42 - Why waiting creates "difficult" conversations

31:38 - Balancing supportive accountability vs. micromanagement

34:02 - Systems and processes enable true delegation and scale

37:30 - Using AI to document institutional knowledge and build SOPs

40:12 - A recent win: Taking a sabbatical thanks to a self-sustaining executive team

42:07 - Plug: The Home Care Owners Community and how to connect

Quotes:Jessica Nobles: "I lived for 20 years in the cycle of trying to be this empire builder… and I found myself at a place of intense burnout. I was very unfulfilled. I was speaking on stages and people were like, 'Oh, she's so great,' but internally, I was very disconnected from my internal vision."

Jessica Nobles: "When it comes to growth, it's usually the same mistakes that I see people making over and over and over again. And when you're getting ready to hire someone, really sit down and put together a plan to get that new hire on point. It'll save you tons of time, tons of money, tons of frustration."

David Knack: "You are not gonna arrive at a point in time where all of a sudden you feel fulfilled in your business because of some kind of external milestone… that's emotional work you as an entrepreneur and a leader have to do inside yourself."

David Knack: "We've gotta stop being the 'hit by a bus' problems in our own businesses. It's gotta get out of our brains… thanks to the innovations of AI, you can reformat that into whatever version you want it to be on the back end."

Resources:

1. Connect with Jessica Nobles on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessicanobles/

2. Learn more about Home Care Ops: https://homecareops.com/

3. Join the Home Care Owners Community on Facebook (10,000+ members): https://www.facebook.com/groups/homecareops/

4. Connect with David Knack on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-knack/

5. Powered by Zingage: https://zingage.com

6. Watch Episode on Zingage's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Zingage

Kristen Duell, founder of Momentum Healthcare and Technology Consulting, joins host David Knack for a raw conversation about the recurring mistake that has shaped her entire leadership journey: believing that shared passion and purpose are enough to run a successful business.

Kristen opens up about the "black eyes and kidney punches" she's endured from moving too fast and trusting that others shared her standards of integrity, without first establishing clear structure and alignment. She explains why "momentum without tension is chaos" and how this hard-won lesson is now the core philosophy of her consulting firm.

The conversation dives into the underrated power of emotional intelligence in an A.I.-obsessed world, the critical need for intentional internal communication, and how to evaluate new technology with a life-or-death lens. Kristen also shares the inspiring story behind her non-profit, Ideal for Healthcare, and its mission to create upward mobility and visibility for women in the industry.

Lesson Takeaways:

1. Structure Fuels Passion: A shared mission and great culture are not enough to protect a business. You must combine them with clear operating systems, defined expectations, and organizational alignment to execute and grow effectively.

2. Don't abandon emotion when using A.I.: In the rush to adopt artificial intelligence, don't overlook Emotional & Adaptive Intelligence. The best leaders understand different perspectives and practice critical thinking and empathy.

3. Market to Your Internal Team: Invest the same level of effort in internal storytelling and communication as you do in external marketing. Reminding your team why their work matters is a powerful driver of retention and satisfaction.

4. Evaluate Tech with a Human Lens: Before implementing any new technology, ask the tough questions: How will it perform in a life-or-death situation? What is the human impact on clients and caregivers? If it doesn't serve them well, it's not the right solution.

5. Busyness Does Not Equal Success: Stop equating exhaustion with achievement. Make strategic time for the important work, or you risk burnout and a business that can't sustain itself.

Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction to Kristen Duell and her accidental entrepreneurship

02:45 - The inspiration behind Momentum Healthcare & Technology Consulting

08:12 - David's "big mistake" question: What is your recurring failure?

11:13 - The core mistake: Believing passion and purpose are enough to protect a business

13:30 - Why "Momentum without tension is chaos"

16:10 - Balancing high-speed growth with necessary structure and clarity

17:02 - The most underrated thing in home care: Emotional & Adaptive Intelligence

19:42 - The danger of equating busyness with success

20:18 - The influx of Venture Capital and A.I. in home care: Exciting vs. concerning trends

25:22 - The critical question to ask before implementing any new technology

26:52 - The little mistake: Neglecting intentional internal communication

29:10 - Why you need to "market" your mission to your employees

32:37 - A recent win: Helping a billion-dollar organization simplify its tech stack

35:46 - The story behind Ideal for Healthcare and its mission

39:33 - How to get involved with the Ideal for Healthcare community

Quotes: Kristen Duel: "I've actually learned that structure and clarity and alignment are just as critical at the heart of really being able to execute and grow within an organization or to execute the mission and vision of a business."

Kristen Duel: "Somewhere along the line, we started equating exhaustion with success. And that's really just a dangerous place to live. I've lived it, and I can tell you it doesn't end well."

David Knack: "It doesn't matter how fast you're going if you're not going in the right direction. And it doesn't matter how fast you're going if you can't control it."

David Knack: "There is a customer in the business and that is the employee, and it is somebody's job to think about how to continually market and sell the business to the people who already signed up to work here."

Resources:

1. Connect with Kristen Duell on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristenpenfold/

2. Learn more about Momentum Healthcare and Technology Consulting: https://momentumhtconsulting.com/

3. Learn more about Ideal for Healthcare: http://www.ideal4healthcare.com

4. Connect with David Knack on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-knack/

5. Powered by Zingage: https://zingage.com

6. Watch Episode on Zingage's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Zingage

Kevin Smith, CEO of Best of Care, joins host David Knack to pull back the curtain on a splashy but failed acquisition that taught him a brutal lesson about due diligence. Kevin opens up about buying an adult day health program's home care arm, a deal that made perfect sense on paper but fell apart at the seams, resulting in a massive revenue shortfall.

He reflects on the costly mistake of relying too heavily on his relationship-driven "gut" for a process that required forensic analysis, and how the timing—closing the deal the day before his first child was born—added immense personal pressure.

Kevin shares how this "abject failure" became the foundation for his subsequent successful acquisitions and offers hard-won wisdom on hiring, the trap of seeking the "perfect" candidate, and why the industry's obsession with the "10,000 hours per week" milestone is overrated. The discussion offers actionable advice on building a resilient, multi-service company that prioritizes its people.

Lesson Takeaways:

1. Due Diligence Over Gut Feeling: A strategic acquisition requires meticulous, data-driven verification. Relying solely on a good relationship or a "vibe" can lead to catastrophic financial and operational failure.

2. Hire for Potential, Not Perfection: Letting the "perfect" candidate be the enemy of the "good" one leads to hiring paralysis. Often, the candidate with 80% of the skills but great potential outperforms the theoretical perfect fit.

3. Celebrate Milestones, But Keep Momentum: Industry benchmarks like "10,000 hours per week" are arbitrary. While it's good to celebrate wins, a true leader is always focused on the next strategic goal to maintain growth and morale.

4. Build a Culture That Supports Real Life: Fostering a company culture that actively supports employees' lives outside of work is a powerful driver of loyalty and retention.

5. Don't Over-Invest in Low-Impact Marketing: A functional website and basic presence are essential, but over-engineering brochures and web copy is a poor use of energy. Home care is a trust and relationship business; focus your efforts there.

Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction to Kevin Smith and Best of Care's 44-year history

02:45 - The synergy between Medicaid expertise and a private pay senior living model

08:12 - David's "big mistake" question: What went wrong?

08:37 - The story of the failed adult day health home care acquisition

10:15 - The perfect storm: Closing the deal the day before becoming a parent

11:01 - The aftermath: Retaining only 30% of the expected revenue

12:13 - The key lesson: Applying extreme due diligence to future, successful acquisitions

13:47 - Kevin's "gut feel" approach and when it fails

14:27 - Hiring mistakes: Why the 80% candidate often beats the 100% candidate

16:40 - The most overrated thing in home care: The "10,000 hours per week" milestone

19:32 - The next big goal: One million service hours

21:29 - The leadership challenge of always moving to "what's next"

22:41 - The reward of building a coaching tree and developing leaders from within

23:45 - How a millennial leadership team fosters a culture of work-life balance

25:13 - The little mistake: Overthinking your website and marketing materials

27:50 - A recent win: The successful integration of diversified service lines

29:04 - A deep dive into the move management business and its synergy with home care

32:08 - What to plug: Best of Care's holistic suite of services for senior living communities

Quotes: Kevin Smith: "When you fail in life, that's how you learn. You don't learn when you win, you learn when you fail, and when you fail, fail hard. And we failed really hard on that."

Kevin Smith: "The common denominator... is the lack of treating caregivers as family members of your company. They are the lifeline of your organization to grow."

David Knack: "I have a hypothesis... you strike me as somebody who, gut is a really strong asset for you, that a lot of times you make decisions based on feel and it goes well."

David Knack: "The purpose of a website is, does this business exist or not?... This is a relationship business. This is a trust business. This is a referral business."

Resources:

1. Connect with Kevin Smith on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-smith-04755422/

2. Learn more about Best of Care on their website: https://www.bestofcareinc.com/

3. Connect with David Knack on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-knack/

4. Powered by Zingage: https://zingage.com

5. Watch Episode on Zingage's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Zingage

Gabrielle Pumpian returns, joined by death doula and end-of-life consultant Nicole Soares, for a profound conversation about the one thing every home care agency deals with but few are prepared for: death.

They explore a common operational mistake: failing to align a caregiver's duties with a client's core values, leading to disengagement and a reduced schedule. Nicole shares her powerful personal journey that led her to become a "one-stop death shop," while Gabby reflects on the costly mindset of viewing a client's passing primarily as a revenue loss. The discussion offers actionable advice on preparing caregivers for end-of-life care, creating true partnerships with hospice, and building a company culture that sees death not as a failure, but as a sacred, honored part of life.

Lesson Takeaways:

1. Align Care with Client Values, Not Just Tasks: A client's well-being is tied to their passions. Failing to connect care with what brings them joy can lead to client dissatisfaction and reduced hours.

2. Reframe Death from a Loss to an Honor: Shift the internal mindset from seeing a client's passing as a revenue hit to recognizing it as a sacred event your team is privileged to support.

3. Your Caregivers Need to Process Grief: Create safe spaces and rituals for caregivers to express emotion and process grief after a client dies. This is critical for their well-being and retention.

4. Forge Deep Partnerships, Not Shallow Referrals: A true partnership with hospice or a death doula involves joint training and shared values, not just exchanging business cards.

5. Identify and Empower Your "Death Liaison": Not everyone is comfortable with end-of-life conversations. Identify a team member who excels in this area and empower them to be the specialist and emotional support point person.

Timestamps: 00:01 - Introduction to a unique episode on death, dying, and home care

02:18 - What is a death doula? Nicole Sos explains her role as a "one-stop death shop"

05:35 - David on America's death-averse culture and its link to senior loneliness

06:12 - Nicole's personal catalyst: The accident that put her in charge of her best friend's life-and-death decisions

09:41 - The critical gap in advanced directives: Why having a document doesn't guarantee your wishes are followed

13:45 - Gabby's challenge: Should home care agencies make advanced planning a standard part of their assessment?

17:08 - Gabby's journey from avoidance to leaning into conversations about mortality

21:00 - The "inconvenient truth": Confronting the gut reaction of revenue loss when a client passes

24:49 - Nicole's experience: When a hospice provider's policies conflict with a client's desire to end suffering

28:30 - How to practically and emotionally equip caregivers for a client's final days

31:47 - A powerful success story: Matching a client with a water aerobics-loving caregiver to restore joy and purpose

34:20 - Tapping into an untapped resource: Leveraging the cultural strengths of your caregiver team

35:15 - A simple, high-impact cultural practice: Implementing a daily 10-minute team meditation

37:51 - The power of ritual: Creating meaningful ways to honor clients who have passed away

43:00 - The non-negotiable: Creating safe spaces for caregivers to express emotion and process grief

44:44 - The leadership imperative: Framing end-of-life care as a gift and an honor, not a burden

46:30 - How to identify and empower a "death liaison" on your team to lead with heart and expertise

Quotes: Nicole Soares: "I realized I could hold space for people that are dying and that I'm very deeply committed to helping people have good deaths... it was because I didn't get that when I needed it."

Gabrielle Pumpian: "When you hear that you've lost two 24/7 clients... when you hear that two people have died, that makes it really difficult to then be able to support your caregivers. Ask them questions, pause, help them understand grief."

Nicole Soares: "I really challenge caregivers and these home care companies to really look at what is a client's value and how do we align with that."

David Knack: "What a gift that our people are in this business where they get to stand in the gap where family is not able to be there."

Resources:

1. Connect with Gabrielle Pumpian on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gpumpian/

2. Connect with Nicole Soares on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicole-soares-420bb27/

3. Learn more about Nicole's services on her website, Eco Love Transitions: https://www.ecolovetransitions.com/

4. Connect with David Knack on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-knack/

5. Powered by Zingage: https://zingage.com

6. Watch Episode on Zingage's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Zingage

Gabrielle Pumpian returns, joined by death doula and end-of-life consultant Nicole Soares, for a profound conversation about the one thing every home care agency deals with but few are prepared for: death.

They explore a common operational mistake: failing to align a caregiver's duties with a client's core values, leading to disengagement and a reduced schedule. Nicole shares her powerful personal journey that led her to become a "one-stop death shop," while Gabby reflects on the costly mindset of viewing a client's passing primarily as a revenue loss. The discussion offers actionable advice on preparing caregivers for end-of-life care, creating true partnerships with hospice, and building a company culture that sees death not as a failure, but as a sacred, honored part of life.

Lesson Takeaways:

1. Align Care with Client Values, Not Just Tasks: A client's well-being is tied to their passions. Failing to connect care with what brings them joy can lead to client dissatisfaction and reduced hours.

2. Reframe Death from a Loss to an Honor: Shift the internal mindset from seeing a client's passing as a revenue hit to recognizing it as a sacred event your team is privileged to support.

3. Your Caregivers Need to Process Grief: Create safe spaces and rituals for caregivers to express emotion and process grief after a client dies. This is critical for their well-being and retention.

4. Forge Deep Partnerships, Not Shallow Referrals: A true partnership with hospice or a death doula involves joint training and shared values, not just exchanging business cards.

5. Identify and Empower Your "Death Liaison": Not everyone is comfortable with end-of-life conversations. Identify a team member who excels in this area and empower them to be the specialist and emotional support point person.

Timestamps: 00:01 - Introduction to a unique episode on death, dying, and home care

02:18 - What is a death doula? Nicole Sos explains her role as a "one-stop death shop"

05:35 - David on America's death-averse culture and its link to senior loneliness

06:12 - Nicole's personal catalyst: The accident that put her in charge of her best friend's life-and-death decisions

09:41 - The critical gap in advanced directives: Why having a document doesn't guarantee your wishes are followed

13:45 - Gabby's challenge: Should home care agencies make advanced planning a standard part of their assessment?

17:08 - Gabby's journey from avoidance to leaning into conversations about mortality

21:00 - The "inconvenient truth": Confronting the gut reaction of revenue loss when a client passes

24:49 - Nicole's experience: When a hospice provider's policies conflict with a client's desire to end suffering

28:30 - How to practically and emotionally equip caregivers for a client's final days

31:47 - A powerful success story: Matching a client with a water aerobics-loving caregiver to restore joy and purpose

34:20 - Tapping into an untapped resource: Leveraging the cultural strengths of your caregiver team

35:15 - A simple, high-impact cultural practice: Implementing a daily 10-minute team meditation

37:51 - The power of ritual: Creating meaningful ways to honor clients who have passed away

43:00 - The non-negotiable: Creating safe spaces for caregivers to express emotion and process grief

44:44 - The leadership imperative: Framing end-of-life care as a gift and an honor, not a burden

46:30 - How to identify and empower a "death liaison" on your team to lead with heart and expertise

Quotes: Nicole Soares: "I realized I could hold space for people that are dying and that I'm very deeply committed to helping people have good deaths... it was because I didn't get that when I needed it."

Gabrielle Pumpian: "When you hear that you've lost two 24/7 clients... when you hear that two people have died, that makes it really difficult to then be able to support your caregivers. Ask them questions, pause, help them understand grief."

Nicole Soares: "I really challenge caregivers and these home care companies to really look at what is a client's value and how do we align with that."

David Knack: "What a gift that our people are in this business where they get to stand in the gap where family is not able to be there."

Resources:

1. Connect with Gabrielle Pumpian on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gpumpian/

2. Connect with Nicole Soares on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicole-soares-420bb27/

3. Learn more about Nicole's services on her website, Eco Love Transitions: https://www.ecolovetransitions.com/

4. Connect with David Knack on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-knack/

5. Powered by Zingage: https://zingage.com

6. Watch Episode on Zingage's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Zingage

Victor Hunt, the passionate CEO and co-founder of Zingage, joins host David Knack for a long-awaited conversation. Victor opens up about the critical hiring mistake from his first startup: prioritizing raw technical skill over team cohesion and culture fit, a misstep that almost broke the company.

He explains why this "Frankenstein's monster" approach to building a team fails and how it informed his "culture-first" philosophy at Zingage. Victor shares the only two traits he now looks for in every hire and dives into the underrated genius of home care owners, who are often overwhelmed by operational burdens instead of leveraging their deep expertise.

The conversation also covers how to create "synthetic capacity" for your team, the power of focusing your energy on high-impact human connections (like in-person client introductions), and the simple mindset shift that can make your business and your life 10 times better.

Lesson Takeaways:

1. Culture Over Credentials: A team of brilliant individuals who don't work well together will fail. Prioritize culture fit and shared mission over a flawless resume.

2. Hire for Care and Grit: The two non-negotiable traits for Zingage, and arguably for any home care business, are: genuinely caring about the mission, deep desire to win for the people who depend on you

3. Your Expertise is Underrated: Home care owners possess a deep, underappreciated understanding of the care continuum. The challenge isn't your knowledge; it's having the bandwidth to act on it consistently.

4. Automate the Tedious, Empower the Human: Use technology to offload administrative chores (scheduling, compliance, EVV tracking) so your best people can focus on what only they can do: build trust and create magical human connections.

5. Zoom Out to Your "Why": If you're constantly buried in details, you'll burn out. Regularly reconnect with your original "why." This reframes challenges and helps you deploy your energy on the most impactful activities, like nurturing referral partners and ensuring stellar client-caregiver relationships.

Timestamps: 00:00 - The pressure of running a home care agency

01:16 - Introducing Victor Hunt, CEO of Zingage

02:45 - Victor's "passionate" reason for entering home care tech

04:12 - The story of the emergency call for a New Jersey agency

07:48 - David's "loaded question": What was your big mistake?

08:55 - The "Frankenstein's monster" mistake of hiring for skill, not culture

11:22 - The two essential traits Victor now hires for

13:07 - Why home care owners are smarter than they think

16:31 - The concept of "synthetic capacity" and getting leaner

19:54 - The most underrated thing in home care: the owner's expertise

22:15 - A simple, high-impact fix: Doing in-person introductions

24:38 - The little mistake that costs owners their energy

26:52 - Rapid fire: Letting your team take a workout class guilt-free

29:21 - Victor's recent win: Defining Zingage's culture manifesto

32:08 - What to plug: Zingage Operator for back-office relief

33:40 - Connect with Victor Hunt and work with Zingage

Quotes: Victor Hunt: "We're not building Frankenstein's monster of a bunch of different appendages that all look nice independently, but don't really do well together."

Victor Hunt: "If your whole team is burnt out... If they can't go and get a meal because they're taking three different calls... What are we doing here?"

Victor Hunt: "The underrated aspect of this is that this is an industry that is extremely humane. These people have such deep expertise, and they underrate themselves."

David Knack: "The cumulative impact of not having done [an in-person introduction] you can just start to see the degrading of trust between your clients and your caregivers and your staff."

Resources:

1. Connect with Victor Hunt on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/victor-c-hunt/

2. Connect with David Knack on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-knack/

3. Powered by Zingage: https://zingage.com

4. Watch Episode on Zingage's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Zingage

John "Moz" Mozdzien, a Navy veteran and co-founder of Veterans First, joins host David Knack to share a costly hiring mistake—but not of a person. He "hired" a flawed understanding of VA benefits, leading to a $10,000 loss on his company's very first case.

He opens up about the specific rule regarding surviving spouses that they misunderstood and how this "hard fail" became the foundation for a 99.9% approval rate today. Moz reflects on how the crisis forged an unbreakable bond with his business partner, built on pre-existing trust. The conversation also covers the underrated power of genuine listening, the mission to serve veterans and their families, and why treating your caregivers like family is the ultimate key to growth.

Lesson Takeaways:

1. Vet Your Assumptions, Not Just People: A hiring mistake can be about a flawed process or understanding. Always double-check the fine print, especially with complex systems like VA benefits.

2. Partnerships Are Forged in Failure: A business partnership built on pre-existing friendship and trust can withstand early, costly failures that would break other companies.

3. Fail Hard to Learn Hard: Your biggest, most expensive mistakes often contain the most valuable, business-defining lessons that pave the way for future success.

4. Your Caregivers Are Your Lifeline: The way you support, pay, and treat your caregivers is the single biggest indicator of your company's health and its ability to grow.

5. Listen More Than You Speak: Check your ego at the door. Surround yourself with people smarter than you and practice genuine listening to understand, not just to reply.

Timestamps: 00:01 - Introduction of John "Moz" Mozdzien and his home care journey with Veterans First

02:28 - The mission of Veterans First and the overlooked "non-service connected pension" benefit

05:34 - Moz's big mistake: Misunderstanding a key VA rule, leading to a $10,000 loss

07:15 - The moment of realizing the error and the reaction from his business partner

08:14 - How a foundation of trust allowed the partnership to survive the failure

09:49 - Moz's philosophy on listening, ego, and filling a room with smarter people

14:11 - Underrated industry practice: Home care as a proactive service

16:02 - The critical role of companionship in combating loneliness

17:45 - A simple, high-impact tip: Conducting in-person caregiver-client introductions

19:27 - Going the extra mile: The power of visiting a hospitalized client

22:13 - The common little mistake: Failing to treat caregivers like family

26:07 - A story about building unwavering caregiver loyalty through trust

28:08 - Win of the week: Veterans First is expanding to Los Angeles

29:25 - Moz on overcoming imposter syndrome by focusing on others

30:45 - How to connect with Veterans First and what makes an ideal partner

Quotes: John Mozdzien: "When you fail in life, that's how you learn. You don't learn when you win, you learn when you fail, and when you fail, fail hard. And we failed really hard on that."

John Mozdzien: "If you fill a room with individuals that are smarter than you, you bring down egos and you listen more than you speak, incredible things happen."

John Mozdzien: "The common denominator... is the lack of treating caregivers as family members of your company. They are the lifeline of your organization to grow."

David Knack: "The little things are the everythings. An in-person introduction is an easy way to deliver value to everybody in the situation."

Resources:

1. Veterans First: https://www.veteransfirst.us/

2. Connect with John "Moz" Mozdzien on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-moz-mozdzien-8190823b/

3. Connect with David Knack on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-knack/

4. Powered by Zingage: https://zingage.com

5. Watch Episode on Zingage's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Zingage