July 13, 2025

How can Leaders Support Schoolwide Direct Instruction? with Bonnie Grossen and Kurt Engelmann

59 minutes

Hello everyone, and welcome back to the Direct Instruction Podcast. I’m Dr. Zach Groshell, and today I’m joined by two outstanding leaders in the DI community: Bonnie Grossen and Kurt Engelmann.

Bonnie Grossen has supported schoolwide Direct Instruction implementations across a wide range of settings—from urban districts to rural communities, both in the U.S. and internationally. In this episode, she shares key lessons from supporting Direct Instruction at the Arthur Academy Charter Schools.

We’re also joined by Kurt Engelmann, returning from Episode 1, who brings sharp insights into the real-world execution of Direct Instruction.

Together, Bonnie and Kurt walk us through what full-immersion, schoolwide DI really looks like. We explore how the model originated, how it adapts across grade levels, how it aligns with Multi-Tiered Systems of Support (MTSS), and the critical role of leadership in sustaining success. We also talk about realistic expectations and the most common mistakes schools and districts make when implementing DI.

This podcast is brought to you by NIFDI, the National Institute for Direct Instruction. NIFDI partners with schools around the world to support high-fidelity DI implementation. I’ll be bringing this podcast to their annual conference in Eugene, Oregon, summer 2025—and I hope to see you there! Visit www.nifdi.org for details.

If you find value in these conversations, help us spread the word by leaving a 5-star rating on your favorite podcast platform. And now, let’s roll the tape on my conversation with Bonnie Grossen and Kurt Engelmann.

Graphs and Results Mentioned in the Episode

Schuyler-writing-resultsDownload

Graph of Galileo HS resultsDownload

Resources:

Results of Implementation #1 and Graph of Implementation #2 that were analyzed at the start of the episode.

The Administrator Leadership Institute at the National Direct Instruction Conference:

This five-day institute is designed to help leaders develop a clear roadmap for implementing DI successfully for all students in their school or district.

Direct Instruction: A Practitioner’s Handbook

Much of the content of the Administrator Leadership Institute corresponds to the second section in the handbook, which provides additional background on the goals of DI, the research evidence in support of DI, and other topics.

The short film, Why is Reading so Hard? explains the structure and method used in teaching Reading Mastery.

It is less than nine minutes long, but it is jam packed with useful info and compelling graphics. See: https://youtu.be/gBFC1keuJIg

It is part of a longer series on using Reading Mastery effectively. The series can be accessed here: https://www.nifdi.org/videos/reading-mastery-training-series.html.

Bonnie is the chair of the board of directors of the Arthur Academy Charter Schools, https://www.arthuracademy.org, six small elementary schools in the greater Portland, Oregon area that use DI programs for core instruction for all students.

If you love the DI podcast, please help me spread it around, and give it 5-star rating on the platform of your choosing.

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This podcast is brought to you by NIFDI, or the National Institute for Direct Instruction. NIFDI supports schools all over the world to implement Direct Instruction with fidelity, and it has invited me to bring this podcast to their conference in Eugene OR in the summer of 2025. You can find more information about how NIFDI kickstarts and enhances Direct Instruction implementations by going to www.nifdi.org, and I hope you register for the conference and come see me do my thing at my sessions.

Can’t Get Enough Content?

Kris Boulton is a teacher who became inspired by Engelmann and Theory of Instruction. Listen to him talk about how he thinks about DI principles in this insightful episode of Progressively Incorrect.

S4E17: Kris Boulton on Atomization, DI Principles, and Unstoppable Learning

Contact Zach Groshell for speaking and consulting here

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By Dr. Zach Groshell

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