Shirley Showalter and Marilyn McEntyre know that grandparenting is more than just cookies and Play-Doh. Don't get us wrong, those things are fun! But the art of contemporary grandparenting requires mindfulness, intentionality, and navigating boundaries. On today's episode, Courtney Martin talks with Marilyn and Shirley about their book, The Mindful Grandparent, and the wisdom they've gained as elders to 12 grandchildren.

If you liked this episode check out: How To Face Your Kid's Future

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How To's executive producer is Derek John. Joel Meyer is our senior editor/producer. The show is produced by Rosemary Belson, with Kevin Bendis and Sara McCrea.

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