In this very special episode, author Daniel Quinn's wife Rennie Mackay Quinn joins us for her first ever interview: sharing untold stories, new insights, and reflections on her life and journey with her beloved late husband & Daniel Quinn.

Rennie tells us about the 15 years it took Daniel to write Ishmael, the childhood dream that sparked it, how the word "hamburger" changed their lives, how they navigated the response and acclaim to Ishmael, and much more.

CITATIONS

Ishmael by Daniel Quinn (1992)

Providence by Daniel Quinn (1994)

You can read more of Rennie and Daniel's story at Ishmael.org and see Rennie's paintings at RMQabstracts.com.

If you'd like to support Human Nature Odyssey, please subscribe wherever you listen, leave a review, and join us on Patreon for exclusive audio extras, writings, and notes.

For full episode transcripts, essays, and additional context, visit: resilience.org/human-nature-odyssey-podcast

Music: Celestial Soda Pop

By: Ray Lynch

From the album: Deep Breakfast

Courtesy Ray Lynch Productions © Ⓟ 1984/BMI

All rights reserved.

1. Amazon: Celestial Soda Pop

https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B000QQXURI

2. iTunes:

https://music.apple.com/us/album/celestial-soda-pop/3242445?i=3242425

3. Spotify:

https://open.spotify.com/track/2THDVIVytLuGX7S7UghuC1?si=20ea63807bba401f

In this climactic culmination of the Ishmael series, we ask the question : how do we transform an entire society?

Ishmael doesn't give us the "10 Simple Steps to Save the World" instead, he offers us a map and compass to navigate our intergenerational civilizational transformation ourselves. Where we go from here is up to us.

We'll meet the fantastical Prince who first concocted the criminal justice system, have a final reckoning with our Taker Mythology hat, and return to the abandoned land of Ashbourne.

Thank you to Honan and Dylan for their voice acting.

If you'd like to support Human Nature Odyssey, please subscribe wherever you listen, leave a review, and join us on Patreon for exclusive audio extras, writings, and notes.

For full episode transcripts, essays, and additional context, visit: resilience.org/human-nature-odyssey-podcast

CITATIONS

Ishmael by Daniel Quinn (1992)

Washington Post "Turner Prize" by David Streitfeld (1991)

creativity-found.org/ted-turner

AV Club "CNN's doomsday video" by Sean O'Neal (2015)

Music: Celestial Soda Pop

By: Ray Lynch

From the album: Deep Breakfast

Courtesy Ray Lynch Productions © Ⓟ 1984/BMI

All rights reserved.

1. Amazon: Celestial Soda Pop

https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B000QQXURI

2. iTunes:

https://music.apple.com/us/album/celestial-soda-pop/3242445?i=3242425

3. Spotify:

https://open.spotify.com/track/2THDVIVytLuGX7S7UghuC1?si=20ea63807bba401f

Is it possible to build a civilization that flies? (metaphorically speaking of course)

How did we eventually learn to fly? It wasn't by defying gravity and disobeying aerodynamics but by learning how to work with them.

Daniel Quinn, in his novel Ishmael, argues there are laws of nature that we have to learn to live within, rather than resist, if we are to continue as a society. In this episode we explore what this "Law of Life" could be.

This is an episode of short stories, cinematic sound effects, and wacky voices. Strap in for liftoff.

If you'd like to support Human Nature Odyssey, please subscribe wherever you listen, leave a review, and join us on Patreon for exclusive audio extras, writings, and notes.

For full episode transcripts, essays, and additional context, visit: resilience.org/human-nature-odyssey-podcast

Citations

Ishmael by Daniel Quinn (1992)

Scientific American (2020)

Thank you to Maddy and Austin for their voice acting. You can listen to Madima's music on Spotify here.

"Vadim Krakhmal - Journey To The Toucan Isle" is under a Creative Commons (CC BY-SA 3.0) license Music promoted by BreakingCopyright

Music: Celestial Soda Pop

By: Ray Lynch

From the album: Deep Breakfast

Courtesy Ray Lynch Productions © Ⓟ 1984/BMI

All rights reserved.

1. Amazon: Celestial Soda Pop

https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B000QQXURI

2. iTunes:

https://music.apple.com/us/album/celestial-soda-pop/3242445?i=3242425

3. Spotify:

https://open.spotify.com/track/2THDVIVytLuGX7S7UghuC1?si=20ea63807bba401f

Who first told the story of the Garden of Eden? Could it have been a way to explain the unfolding Agricultural Revolution from the perspective of the people who were there?

The Garden of Eden has been told and retold for thousands of years. Why do we keep telling it? With insight from modern biblical scholarship, we investigate the origins of this ancient story and what warning this active myth still has yet to be heeded today.

It's an adventure to the far flung lands of Alex's 5th grade classroom as well as the lush old-growth forests of the Middle East (before all the desertification).

There's parables, characters, and plenty of special effects. You'll want to bring some popcorn for this one. And don't listen to anything that serpent tells you on the way in.

This episode is largely indebted to the research and writing of J. Snodgrass and his fascinating book "Genesis and the Rise of Civilization". If you would like to learn more, you'll find an exclusive interview with J. Snodgrass on the HNO Patreon.

If you'd like to support Human Nature Odyssey, please subscribe wherever you listen, leave a review, and join us on Patreon for exclusive audio extras, writings, and notes.

For full episode transcripts, essays, and additional context, visit: resilience.org/human-nature-odyssey-podcast

Citations

Ishmael by Daniel Quinn (1992)

Genesis and the Rise of Civilization by j. Snodgrass (2011)

Sapiens by Yuval Harari (2011)

Indigenous Continent: The Epic Conquest of North America by Pekka Hämäläinen (2022)

The Worst Mistake in the History of the Human Race from Discovery Magazine (1999)

Beat Provided By https://freebeats.io Produced By White Hot

Music: Celestial Soda Pop

By: Ray Lynch

From the album: Deep Breakfast

Courtesy Ray Lynch Productions © Ⓟ 1984/BMI

All rights reserved.

1. Amazon: Celestial Soda Pop

https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B000QQXURI

2. iTunes:

https://music.apple.com/us/album/celestial-soda-pop/3242445?i=3242425

3. Spotify:

https://open.spotify.com/track/2THDVIVytLuGX7S7UghuC1?si=20ea63807bba401f

In this episode we take a step back from Ishmael to better view the philosophical context it was written in.

We explore the history of the terms "civilized" and "primitive" and how their definitions have evolved over time.

Topics include: Rome's influence on Western European colonization, noble savage theory, primitivism, and the rise of the identity "indigenous".

When we say civilization who do we include and exclude? Who is civilized and what does that mean?

If you'd like to support Human Nature Odyssey, please subscribe wherever you listen, leave a review, and join us on Patreon for exclusive audio extras, writings, and notes.

For full episode transcripts, essays, and additional context, visit: resilience.org/human-nature-odyssey-podcast

Citations

Ishmael by Daniel Quinn (1992)

The Dawn of Everything by David Wengrow and David Graeber (2021)

Of Plymouth Plantation by William Bradford (1620-1647)

Indigenous Continent: The Epic Conquest of North America by Pekka Hämäläinen (2022)

Music: Celestial Soda Pop

By: Ray Lynch

From the album: Deep Breakfast

Courtesy Ray Lynch Productions © Ⓟ 1984/BMI

All rights reserved.

1. Amazon: Celestial Soda Pop

https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B000QQXURI

2. iTunes:

https://music.apple.com/us/album/celestial-soda-pop/3242445?i=3242425

3. Spotify:

https://open.spotify.com/track/2THDVIVytLuGX7S7UghuC1?si=20ea63807bba401f

Ishmael theorizes our culture is held captive by a story, a mythology we take for granted, act out every day, and is leading to the destruction of the world. So in this episode we tell this story out loud, from beginning, to middle, to end.

Along the way we chat with a 6-year-old animal expert, discuss adult imaginary games, analyze the subliminal cultural messages conveyed in religion and philosophy, and meet a sassy imaginary top hat with a poorly performed Brooklyn accent.

Taker Mythology, the grand sweeping narrative playing out behind the scenes of our culture, just might explain how we got here and where we're going… if we don't find a way to tell another story.

If you'd like to support Human Nature Odyssey, please subscribe wherever you listen, leave a review, and join us on Patreon for exclusive audio extras, writings, and notes.

For full episode transcripts, essays, and additional context, visit: resilience.org/human-nature-odyssey-podcast

Citations

Ishmael by Daniel Quinn (1992)

A Sand County Almanac by Aldo Leopold (1949)

Leviathan by Thomas Hobbes (1651)

Music: Celestial Soda Pop

By: Ray Lynch

From the album: Deep Breakfast

Courtesy Ray Lynch Productions © Ⓟ 1984/BMI

All rights reserved.

1. Amazon: Celestial Soda Pop

https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B000QQXURI

2. iTunes:

https://music.apple.com/us/album/celestial-soda-pop/3242445?i=3242425

3. Spotify:

https://open.spotify.com/track/2THDVIVytLuGX7S7UghuC1?si=20ea63807bba401f

Why can't we seem to stop destroying the world? Like seriously though?

Ishmael, the telepathic gorilla from Daniel Quinn's philosophical novel, suggests we're captives of a society where our individual society depends on our collective destruction.

As we embark on our quest through the landscape of ideas in Quinn's novel, we'll travel to a dystopian future where Nazi Germany won the war, meet our long lost furry and feathery cousins, explore a sinister layer where villainous henchman plot the end of the world, conduct an investigation into a planet-wide crime scene, and meet the gorilla we've all been waiting for.

If you'd like to support Human Nature Odyssey, please subscribe wherever you listen, leave a review, and join us on Patreon for exclusive audio extras, writings, and notes.

For full episode transcripts, essays, and additional context, visit: resilience.org/human-nature-odyssey-podcast

Citations

Ishmael by Daniel Quinn (1992)

Gerta Keller, Professor of Paleontology and Geology in the Geosciences Department at Princeton University

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/01/world/sixth-mass-extinction-accelerating-intl/index.html

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/un-environment-programme_us_684562

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0959378094900035

Music: Celestial Soda Pop

By: Ray Lynch

From the album: Deep Breakfast

Courtesy Ray Lynch Productions © Ⓟ 1984/BMI

All rights reserved.

1. Amazon: Celestial Soda Pop

https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B000QQXURI

2. iTunes:

https://music.apple.com/us/album/celestial-soda-pop/3242445?i=3242425

3. Spotify:

https://open.spotify.com/track/2THDVIVytLuGX7S7UghuC1?si=20ea63807bba401f

We're all on our own quest to live more meaningful, healthy, and fruitful lives.

To more fully understand the situation we're in, we're going to have to expand our scope in geography and time.

This is a sociological examination of the personal, and a psychological examination of the social.

Alex takes you back in time to a fateful childhood summer when the world was a magical place to explore, yet seemed like it was ending just as he was getting to know it.

It was then that Alex first read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn, the book that begins the quest of Human Nature Odyssey.

If you'd like to support Human Nature Odyssey, please subscribe wherever you listen, leave a review, and join us on Patreon for exclusive audio extras, writings, and notes.

For full episode transcripts, essays, and additional context, visit: resilience.org/human-nature-odyssey-podcast

Music: Celestial Soda Pop

By: Ray Lynch

From the album: Deep Breakfast

Courtesy Ray Lynch Productions © Ⓟ 1984/BMI

All rights reserved.

1. Amazon: Celestial Soda Pop

https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B000QQXURI

2. iTunes:

https://music.apple.com/us/album/celestial-soda-pop/3242445?i=3242425

3. Spotify:

https://open.spotify.com/track/2THDVIVytLuGX7S7UghuC1?si=20ea63807bba401f

You are living the latest chapter in a 10,000 year story. Join storyteller Alex Leff on a search for better ways to understand and more clearly experience the incredible, terrifying, and ridiculous world we live in.

The first stop on our quest through a landscape of ideas and stories is the 1992 novel Ishmael by Daniel Quinn about a telepathic gorilla with great hope for humanity.

Next episodes every month beginning May 4th, 2023.

===

Music: Celestial Soda Pop

By: Ray Lynch

From the album: Deep Breakfast

Courtesy Ray Lynch Productions © Ⓟ 1984/BMI

All rights reserved.

Amazon: Celestial Soda Pop

https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B000QQXURI

iTunes: Celestial Soda Pop

https://music.apple.com/us/album/celestial-soda-pop/3242445?i=3242425

Spotify: Celestial Soda Pop

https://open.spotify.com/track/2THDVIVytLuGX7S7UghuC1?si=20ea63807bba401f