The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Imagine a future with no police

Listen Later

Vox's Fabiola Cineas talks with author, lawyer, and organizer Derecka Purnell about her recent book Becoming Abolitionists. They discuss Derecka's journey to defending the idea of police abolition, and what that position really entails. They explore questions about the historical and social role of policing in society, how to imagine a future where we radically rethink our system of criminal justice, and how we can acknowledge and incorporate current data about crime—while still rethinking our inherited assumptions about police.

Host: Fabiola Cineas (@FabiolaCineas), reporter, Vox

Guests: Derecka Purnell (@dereckapurnell), author

References: 

  • Becoming Abolitionists: Police, Protests, and the Pursuit of Freedom by Derecka Purnell (Astra House; 2021)
  • The Black Jacobins: Toussaint L'Ouverture and the San Domingo Revolution by C.L.R. James (Vintage; 1989)
  • Black Reconstruction in America 1860–1880 by W.E.B. Du Bois (1935)
  • "One American city's model of policing reform means building 'social currency'" by Nathan Layne (June 12, 2020; Reuters)
  • "The Camden Police Department is Not a Model for Policing in the Post-George Floyd Era" by Brendan McQuade (June 12, 2020; The Appeal)
  • "Murder Rose by Almost 30% in 2020. It's Rising at a Slower Rate in 2021" by Jeff Asher (Sept. 22, 2021; New York Times)


    Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

    Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

    Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

    This episode was made by: 

    • Producer: Erikk Geannikis
    • Editor: Amy Drozdowska
    • Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
    • Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

      Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

      ...more
      View all episodesView all episodes
      Download on the App Store
      The Gray Area with Sean IllingBy Vox
      • 4.5
      • 4.5
      • 4.5
      • 4.5
      • 4.5

      4.5

      10,590 ratings

      More shows like The Gray Area with Sean Illing

      View all
      The New Yorker Radio Hour by WNYC Studios and The New Yorker

      The New Yorker Radio Hour

      6,790 Listeners

      The Political Scene | The New Yorker by The New Yorker

      The Political Scene | The New Yorker

      4,046 Listeners

      Explain It to Me by Vox

      Explain It to Me

      7,855 Listeners

      Switched on Pop by Vulture

      Switched on Pop

      2,684 Listeners

      Pivot by New York Magazine

      Pivot

      9,504 Listeners

      Gastropod by Cynthia Graber and Nicola Twilley

      Gastropod

      3,666 Listeners

      Decoder with Nilay Patel by The Verge

      Decoder with Nilay Patel

      3,145 Listeners

      The Daily by The New York Times

      The Daily

      112,037 Listeners

      Good One by Vulture

      Good One

      1,485 Listeners

      Radio Atlantic by The Atlantic

      Radio Atlantic

      2,276 Listeners

      The Atlantic Interview by The Atlantic

      The Atlantic Interview

      2,134 Listeners

      Today, Explained by Vox

      Today, Explained

      10,208 Listeners

      Interesting Times with Ross Douthat by New York Times Opinion

      Interesting Times with Ross Douthat

      7,228 Listeners

      Throughline by NPR

      Throughline

      16,354 Listeners

      Land of the Giants by Vulture

      Land of the Giants

      2,166 Listeners

      Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast by Vox Media Podcast Network

      Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast

      5,985 Listeners

      Unlocking Us with Brené Brown by Vox Media Podcast Network

      Unlocking Us with Brené Brown

      23,583 Listeners

      A Touch More with Sue Bird & Megan Rapinoe by Vox Media Podcast Network

      A Touch More with Sue Bird & Megan Rapinoe

      729 Listeners

      Hard Fork by The New York Times

      Hard Fork

      5,506 Listeners

      Good Noticings by Vox Media Podcast Network

      Good Noticings

      6,475 Listeners

      The Ezra Klein Show by New York Times Opinion

      The Ezra Klein Show

      15,840 Listeners

      Unexplainable by Vox

      Unexplainable

      2,319 Listeners

      Cover Story by New York Magazine

      Cover Story

      1,220 Listeners

      The Interview by The New York Times

      The Interview

      1,589 Listeners

      Not Just Football with Cam Heyward by Cam Heyward

      Not Just Football with Cam Heyward

      152 Listeners

      On with Kara Swisher by Vox Media

      On with Kara Swisher

      3,531 Listeners

      Networth and Chill with Your Rich BFF by Vivian Tu

      Networth and Chill with Your Rich BFF

      1,747 Listeners

      Prof G Markets by Vox Media Podcast Network

      Prof G Markets

      1,432 Listeners

      The Opinions by The New York Times Opinion

      The Opinions

      617 Listeners

      Bird's Eye View with Sue Bird by Sue Bird

      Bird's Eye View with Sue Bird

      440 Listeners

      Solutions with Henry Blodget by Vox Media Podcast Network

      Solutions with Henry Blodget

      31 Listeners