Interior Integration for Catholics

IIC 67:  Catholic and UnCatholic Sex in Catholic Marriages

Saturday, May 8, 2021

10:27 AM

1. The Windup – our common ground, a quick summary of where we are today
    
   1. Let's get down to it.  
2. 
   
   1. Most of us Catholic married folk have deep desires within us for authentic, loving, joyful, intimate sexual sharing with our spouses
3.  
   1. We want to be loving our spouses, we want to make love to our spouses in ways that are healthy, ordered, and holy.
4.  
   1. We want to know our spouses and be known, to accept our spouses and be accepted, to be loved and to love.
5.  
   1. And at least intellectually, we know that God  wants that for us too.  
6. 
   
7. The Hurdle:  The shared problem
    
   1. Or at least, we all had those desires in the past.  Maybe we've given up on them.  Maybe we're discouraged, disheartened. So many Catholic spouses are.  It's common and it's tragic.  But it makes sense to me.  Why?
8.  
   1. Because Sexuality is usually the trickiest and most difficult part of the marriage relationship. Let me say that again.  
   2. We want  deep, loving, joyful, intimate sexual sharing with our spouses
   3. But often there's pressure, shame, guilt, anger, conflict, tension, frustration, disagreement, disharmony, sullenness, withdrawal, disconnection, feelings of helplessness, avoidance, resignation and dozens of other painful experiences.  
   4. We are wounded in a lot of different ways, and those attachment wound, those integrity wounds impact how Catholic spouses related to each other sexually.  
   5. Sex is the most sensitive barometer
   6. God wants Catholic couples not to just have sex -- animals can and do copulate
       
      1. but ordered, healthy sexual intimacy.  
   7. 
      
   8. Stakes are high.  Our Lady of Fatima on Sexual Sins  Jacinta later revealed that according to Our Lady, “The sins which cause most souls to go to hell are the sins of the flesh,” or sins against chastity.
   9. For many Catholic spouses, the sexual situation can seem impossible
       
      1. 28% of Catholic marriages end in divorce, and it's probably safe to say that the sexual intimacy isn't great in those relationships
   10.  
       1. Many, many others suffer from significant problems and issues in the sexual relationship.  
   11. 
       
       1. There is no other area of Catholic life so fraught with complexity, nuance, so sensitive to disorder and dysfunction in the married life.  Why?
   12.  
       1. Because sex is so often wrenched out of context
           
          1. Procreation
       2.  
          1. Union, the bond of the spouses
       3.  
          1. Catholic spouses often look to their sexual relationship to solve problems that do not originate there.  
             1. Misuse of sexuality in the service of trying to get deeper needs met -- attachment needs and integrity needs.  Episode 62
       4. 
          
   13. But you know what?  There are solutions.  There are ways out, even for spouses who are really jaded, really disheartened and discouraged.  And we are going to talk about those ways out, the promise of solutions.  We're going to talk about the Good News of Catholic sexual married life today.
        
       1. All things, all things work together for good for those who love the Lord.  Romans 8:28.  All things.  No exceptions.  All things, St. Paul tells us, there is no asterisk or footnote that excludes your particular sexual situation.  All things.  
          1. The caveat -- for those who love the Lord.  That means childlike trust, great confidence.  
   14. 
       
       1. So many Catholic couples could have such a better life of sexual intimacy.  That is so possible, even though it may not seem believable, because of a history of disappointment, false starts, and discouragement.
           
          1. If you feel like you're Charlie Brown and I'm Lucy, holding a football for you, about to yank it away when you try one more time… I get that.  Stay with me, listen a while longer, and see if you find some new ideas, new ways of looking at things.  I know it may be that you've been married 20, 30 years or more -- but some and see what I have to say.  
       2. 
          
   15. 
       
   16. I am clinical psychologist Peter Malinoski, your host and guide
        
       1. This is episode 67 of the weekly podcast Interior Integration for Catholics
   17.  
       1. And it is titled: Catholic and UnCatholic Sex in Catholic Marriages
   18.  
       1. Thank you for being here with me
   19.  
       1. Interior Integration for Catholics is part of our online outreach Souls and Hearts at soulsandhearts.com
           
          1. Which is all about your human formation, all about shoring up your natural foundation for a solid Catholic spiritual life
       2.  
          1. We are doing a whole series of episodes on Sexuality in Catholic Marriages
       3.  
   20. 
       
       1. We are using the image of a Catholic canopied marriage bed.
   21.  
       1. And today, we are focusing on the the Fitted Sheet, the top sheet and the blankets
           
          1. Fitted Sheet -- Eros, the sexual attraction, the intensity of sexual passion, the actual physical, sexual contact
       2.  
          1. Top Sheet -- Communication between the Catholic spouses
       3.  
          1. Blankets -- Heartfelt warmth and affection, the emotional connection.  
       4. 
          
   22. 
       
9. The Vision  -- The inspiring option, the way over the problem
    
   1. Four Major point -- Four central concepts.  
      1. The human and spiritual formation of the spouse influence the quality of their sexual experience. 
      2. Sex always happens in a relational context
      3. The relational context influences the quality of the sexual experience between the spouses
      4. Sexual intimacy is a great good, but there are time when it may not be best.  
      5. Repeat the four points.  
10. 
    
    1. The human and spiritual formation of the spouse influence the quality of their sexual experience.  
       1. Human formation of the husband and wife are two of the four legs of the bed.  
       2. Focusing in here again on interior integration -- how integrated are we in the sexual sphere
           
          1. That sexual integration is going to depend on our human formation -- and on all the aspect represented in the Catholic canopied marriage bed check out Episode 58.  
       3. 
          
          1. Another leg of the bed is understanding ourselves and our spouse from an Internal Family Systems perspective, which I think is so helpful.  
       4. 
          
       5. As living human being, we have a unity -- each human person is one
           
          1. But also each human person has parts.
       6.  
          1. within each person are separate collections thoughts, emotions, attitudes, impulses, desires, abilities, interests, relational styles, body sensations, and worldviews that are not just transient emotional states, but rather constitute discrete “parts,” subpersonalities or distinct modes of operating within the person’s larger internal system -- they seem like selves within us. 
       7. 
          
          1. Each part within us can phenomenologically seem like its own little person, with its own particular range of emotion, style of e...

1. Intro
    
   1. It is good to have you with us,
2.  
   1. Peter Malinoski, clinical psychologist
3.  
   1. Weekly Podcast Interior Integration for Catholics 
4. 
   
   1. Part of our Online outreach Souls and Hearts and soulsandhearts.com
5.  
   1. Which is all about your human formation, all about shoring up your natural foundation for a solid Catholic spiritual life.  
6. 
   
   1. Episode 66 Acceptance vs. Endorsement: A Critical Difference in Catholic Marriages.  
7. 
   
   1.  we are in the middle of a series on Sexuality in Catholic Marriages, but there is so much in here that is relevant about all kinds of close relationships.  
8. 
   
9. Where have we been?  Review the bed -- remember this canopied marriage bed represents the sexual life of a married Catholic couple.  
   1. The floor -- The Presence of God and His Providence -- everything begins here.  This is the most fundamental piece of the whole metaphor.  We need to be in contact with "I AM" with God who is the source of all reality.  We can't forget that
   2. The four legs
       
      1. Leg 1 -- the husband's commitment to his own interior integration and his own human formation
   3.  
      1. Leg 2.  the wife's commitment to her own interior integration, her own human formation
   4.  
      1. Leg 3.  Understanding Attachment needs and integrity needs.  
   5. 
      
      1. Leg 4.  Internal Family Systems  -- Episode 60 --  How well do you really know your spouse?
          
         1. In that episode, I made five bold assertions:
             
            1. You don't really know your spouse.  
         2. 
            
            1. Your spouse doesn't really know you.  
         3. 
            
            1. Your Father doesn't or didn't really know your mother
         4.  
            1. Your mother doesn't or didn't really know your father
         5.  
            1. And you don't really know you.  
         6. 
            
      2. 
         
         1. Gave evidence for those bold claims are likely, not going to repeat all that evidence here, you can go to Episode 60 and listen to them again.  
            1. For those of you listeners who are married:
                
               1. Can seem like spouse have such widely varying modes of operating
            2.  
               1. like they can be even different people when they are in these different modes of being. 
            3. 
               
               1. Remember what your spouse or someone close to you is like when they are different states -- like when they are really angry, or really sad, or really anxious or really happy.  How different they think, how their worldview changes in these different states.  
            4. 
               
               1. what we call parts:  Parts are constellations of emotions, body sensations, thoughts, feelings, impulses, assumptions about the world and so many other things.  
            5. 
               
               1. Internal Family Systems thinking help us to make sense of our own internal experience and others' internal experience, breaking us out of the model that we have just one monolithic, homogenous personality.  
            6. 
               
               1. That's what episodes 60 and 61 are all about
            7.  
            8. Surprising how not integrated the husband's internal object representations of his wife are -- surprising how unintegrated a wife's internal object representation of her husband can be.  How confused.  
               1. Definition time with Dr. Pete,  Definition of internal object -- Roots in Freud, really developed my Melanie Klein: Internal object refers to the mental representation that results from how we have taken others inside of us and viewed them.  Not necessarily similar to who the person actually is, it's how we construe the person to be, which depends heavily on our subjective experiences, including how we experience ourselves. 
               2. Two dimensional -- sometimes even one dimensional
                   
                  1. You are the person who is supposed to make me feel better about myself, help me avoid shame
               3.  
               4. Fragmented 
               5. How much husbands and wives don't see in and about each other.  
      3. 
         
   6. 
      

1. Three of these four legs are really helpful in accepting what the actual realities are inside your spouse.  
2. The fourth one is great to have, but it's not as essential.  It's the one that we sometimes require first, though
    
   1. Just tell me what's going on -- assumption that she knows what's going on.  90% unconscious.  
3. 
   
   1. Sometimes she just cant.  
4. 
   
5. The frame and the box spring -- the firm, unwavering commitment of the husband his marriage vows and the wife to her marriage vows -- separately.  Independently
6. The mattress  Empathetic attunement -- covered that in episode 65, last episode 
7.  Two pillows:  Self-acceptance and Spouse-acceptance -- this is what we are focusing on today.  
   1. Pillows support us, comfort us.  
   2. Great security with pillows
       
      1. Pam travels with her pillow -- learned this from her friend Cabrina -- comfort in having your own pillow
   3.  
      1. Comfort in being accepted by someone who knows you.  
   4. 
      
8. Bottom Sheet:  sexual attraction, the intensity of sexual passion
9. Top Sheet:  Communication between the spouses
10. The blankets:  human warmth, emotional connection
11. Four Bedposts -- imagine two spiral intertwined, like the double-helix structure of DNA
     
    1. Mindset
12.  
    1. Heartset
13.  
    1. Bodyset
14.  
    1. Soulset
15.  
16. The canopy and the curtains -- to protect privacy and propriety or to hide dysfunction, exploitation, even abuse.  
17. The sham, the bedspread, and the bedskirt -- Used to cover up the real bed, give an impression of the state of married life to the world.  
18. Lay of the land:  
    1. Loving -- three elements:  Benevolence, Capacity, Commitment/Consistency
    2. Not only do we not understand our spouses very well
    3. We also don't accept the realities about our spouses that we do understand 
    4. or the realities that we could understand if we allowed ourselves to see. But so often we parts that don't want us to see who our spouses really are.   Some of that is due to confusion between acceptance and endorsement.  
19. Acceptance vs. endorsement -- Definitions
     
    1. Acceptance -- acknowledging the reality of who I am in my entirety, all my parts with their burdens, all the roughness, the wounds, the disorder, the imperfections, all the baggage, all the "stuff."  It means admitting, conceding all the things that are really true about myself.  
20. 
    
    1.  acknowledging the reality who my spouse Pam is, in her entirety, in her complete being, with her parts, with her perspectives, with her virtues her vices.  Right at this moment
21.  
    1. Endorsement on the other hand.  means essentially approving or embracing as good some feature within myself or my spouse.  
       1. So husband can accept the idea that his wife is abusing painkillers without endorsing her misuse of pain medication.  
22. 
    
23. Why we struggle with accepting something about our spouse,...

1. Intro
    
   1. It is good to have you with us,
2.  
   1. Peter Malinoski, clinical psychologist
3.  
   1. Weekly Podcast Interior Integration for Catholics 
4. 
   
   1. Part of our Online outreach Souls and Hearts and soulsandhearts.com
5.  
   1. Episode 65  Why Catholic Spouses Find it Hard to Empathize with Each Other, Especially About Sex -- with Solutions.  -- we are in the middle of a series on Sexuality in Catholic Marriages, but don't worry if you are not married, there is so much for you in today's episode that applies to any close relationship.  
6. 
   
7. Definitions of Empathy:
    
   1. Daniel Siegel:  Clinical Professor of Psychiatry at the UCLA School of Medicine.  Interpersonal Neurobiology. 
      1. Interpersonal Neurobiology
          
         1. Wikipedia: Interpersonal neurobiology (IPNB) or relational neurobiology is an interdisciplinary framework associated with human development and functioning. It was developed in the 1990s by Daniel J. Siegel who sought to bring together a wide range of scientific disciplines in demonstrating how the mind, brain, and relationships integrate to alter one another.
      2.  
      3. Dan Siegel's work is very accessible -- easier for non-professionals to understand, very available.  
      4. Five types of Empathy  -- Short YouTube Video  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdhMY_DNb1M  5 Levels.   There's an order to them.  
         1. Emotional Resonance or attunement
         2. Perspective Taking
         3. Cognitive Empathy
         4. Compassion -- Seigel calls it Empathetic Concern
         5. Empathetic Joy
      5. I am going to expand on his basic presentation.  
      6. Expanded definitions of empathy
          
         1. Emotional Resonance, attunement, empathic resonance -- receiver begins to feel what the sender is feeling.  You feel the feelings of the other person.  
            1. Attunement ‘is a kinesthetic and emotional sensing of others knowing their rhythm, affect and experience by metaphorically being in their skin, and going beyond empathy to create a two-person experience of unbroken feeling connectedness by providing a reciprocal affect and/or resonating response’. (Clinical psychologist Richard Erksine 1998).
            2. When we attune with others we allow our own internal state to shift, to come to resonate with the inner world of another. This resonance is at the heart of the important sense of “feeling felt” that emerges in close relationships. Children need attunement to feel secure and to develop well, and throughout our lives we need attunement to feel close and connected."  Dan Siegel
            3. Moderation
                
               1. Emotional contagion.  This really can be overwhelming
                   
                  1. Experience of being sucked into the other's experience -- blending or fusing with the other with a loss of boundaries
               2.  
            4. 
               
      7. 
         
         1. Perspective Taking:  Let me put myself in the other's skin -- in the other shoes.   Not a fusion
             
            1. Capacity to enter into your spouse's internal world with your own mind to consider the other's experience
         2.  
            1. You remain separate from the other person.  
         3. 
            
      8. 
         
         1. Cognitive Empathy: -- a bit further  -- what does the experience mean for the person.  Memory, emotion, history influences the other.  Empathetic understanding.  
            1. So much of our suffering comes not from the facts of our situation, but from the meaning we make from those facts.  
      9. 
         
         1. Compassion:  Empathic Concern -- synonym for compassion.  I feel your pain, I want to reduce your suffering.
             
            1. You feel the suffering
         2.  
            1. Take the suffering in
         3.  
            1. Use of the imagination -- what could I do now to help you feel better.  
         4. 
            
            1. Be with the person -- doing flows from that being
         5.  
      10. 
          
          1. Empathic joy -- I get so excited about your success -- delighting in and with the other. 
             1. Joy in who the spouse is, not what the child does -- "delighting in the spouses very being 
             2. Wife believes in the husband's goodness -- the husband is precious, worth sacrificing for and vice versa.  
             3. Song of Songs -- Joy 1:4 We will exult and rejoice in you; we will extol your love more than wine  
      11. 
          
      12. Review
           
          1. Emotional Resonance or attunement
      13.  
          1. Perspective Taking
      14.  
          1. Cognitive Empathy
      15.  
          1. Compassion -- Seigel calls it Empathetic Concern
      16.  
          1. Empathetic Joy
      17.  
8. 
   
9. Empathy is the mattress on our Catholic Canopied Marriage bed, which I introduced in episode 58 -- working with that metaphor.  The mattress on a bed -- we want the mattress to be consistent and solid, firm and not lumpy.  
   1. The frame and box spring -- firm commitment between the husband and the wife, the upholding of the marriage vows Episode 64
       
      1. It's the charity.  Willing the highest good for one another -- sacrificial love
   2.  
   3. four legs of the bed.
       
      1. Leg 1 -- the husband's commitment to his own interior integration, his own human formation, his psychological health, his emotional wellbeing -- removing the beam from his own eye -- last episode. Episode 63
   4.  
      1. Leg 2.  the wife's commitment to her own interior integration, her own human formation, her own psychological health, her own emotional wellbeing -- her taking on her own personal responsibility for her natural life  last episode. Episode 63
      2. Leg 3.  Attachment Needs and Integrity Needs --  Episode 62,
      3. Leg 4.  Internal Family Systems approaches -- understanding deeply how the human person is both a unity and a multiplicity -- like an orchestra is a unity -- one orchestra, but also has within it multiplicity, multiple musicians -- check out Episodes 60 and 61
   5. The rock-solid floor in the bedroom is the Foundation -- The presence of God -- and an active belief in God's Providence
       
      1. This is the foundation
   6.  
      1. Childlike trust, absolute confidence
   7.  
      1. Reflects the reality of our existential dependence and God's paternal care, Mary's maternal care for us.  
   8. 
      
      1. So many Catholic try to solve their marriage issues without bringing in anything spiritual
   9.  
      1. Or they avoid any meeting between faith and sex.  
   10. 
       
10. Why we lack different kinds of empathy
     
    1. In General
        
       1. Lack of interior integration
    2.  
       1. Lack of benevolence -- good will.  Lack of seeking the good for our spouse and being willing to suffer for it
           
          1. Conditionality
              
             1. I'll work on it if my wife does X and Y
          2.  
             1. I'll start trying again if my husband stops behavior Z.  
          3. 
             
             1. Not what your vows say.  
          4. 
             
       2. 
          
          1. Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, you'll be a mile from them, and you'll have their shoes. Jack Handey.  
       3. 
          
    3. 
       
       1. Lack of consistency...

1. Intro
    
   1. It is good to have you with us,
2.  
   1. Peter Malinoski, clinical psychologist
3.  
   1. Interior Integration for Catholics 
4. 
   
   1. Part of our Online outreach Souls and Hearts and soulsandhearts.com
5.  
   1. Episode 64 released April 19, 2021
6.  
   1. Subtle Ways Catholics Cheat on their Spouses:  How and Why.
7.  
   1. Getting into natural level issues around our commitment, the covenant a husband and a wife make in a Catholic sacramental marriage.  
8. 
   
9. Brief Review -- Canopied Marriage Bed
    
   1. Description of each part of the bed -- symbolism of each part, what each part represents.  
      1.  The rock-solid floor in the bedroom is the Foundation -- The presence of God -- and an active belief in God's Providence
          
         1. This is the foundation
      2.  
         1. Childlike trust, absolute confidence
      3.  
         1. Reflects the reality of our existential dependence and God's paternal care, Mary's maternal care for us.  
      4. 
         
      5. Four legs -- now more in the natural realm
          
         1. Leg 1 -- the husband's commitment to his own interior integration, his own human formation, his psychological health, his emotional wellbeing -- removing the beam from his own eye -- last episode. Episode 63
      6.  
         1. Leg 2.  the wife's commitment to her own interior integration, her own human formation, her own psychological health, her own emotional wellbeing -- her taking on her own personal responsibility for her natural life  last episode. Episode 63
             
            1. Definition of Human Formation  Human formation is the lifelong process of natural development, aided by grace, by which a person integrates all aspects of his interior emotional, cognitive, relational, and bodily life, all of his natural faculties in an ordered way, conformed with right reason and natural law so that he is freed from natural impediments to trust God as His beloved child and to embrace God's love.  Then, in return, because he possesses himself, he can love God, neighbor and himself with all of his natural being in an ordered, intimate, personal, and mature way.
         2.  
            1. That is what we are focused on in this podcast.  Human formation:
                
               1. This podcast helps you focus inward on your interior integration -- to help you bring together the different parts of yourself into unity and harmony with God.
            2.  
               1. Together, we are on a journey toward deep transformation, a radical conversion at the core of our being so that our souls can one day enter into contemplative union with God.
            3.  
         3. 
            
      7. 
         
         1. Leg 3.  Attachment Needs and Integrity Needs --  Episode 62,
      8.  
         1. Leg 4.  Internal Family Systems approaches -- understanding deeply how the human person is both a unity and a multiplicity -- like an orchestra is a unity -- one orchestra, but also has within it multiplicity, multiple musicians -- check out Episodes 60 and 61
      9.  
      10. The Frame  and the Box Spring -- this holds the whole bed together and it represents the firm commitment between the husband and the wife, the upholding of the marriage vows,  
          1. We are focusing on this today.  The commitment, the vows of Catholic married life
          2. I promise to be true to you in good times and in bad, in sickness and in health. I will love you and honor you all the days of my life.  
          3. It's the charity.  Willing the highest good for one another
      11. The Mattress -- Empathetic attunement -- really knowing the spouse, really being able to enter into the phenomenological world of the spouse
      12. Bottom sheet fitted sheet -- sexual attraction, the intensity of sexual passion -- hinges on all that is underneath it.  Can't you just help us get the fire, the passion back into our love life.  
      13. Top Sheet -- communication between the Catholic spouses. 
      14. Two Pillows -- Acceptance of who the husband is right now -- Acceptance of who the wife is right now. Self-acceptance and Spouse acceptance   
      15. The blankets -- human warmth, emotional connection
      16. Four bedposts -- intertwined spirals, like a double helix --  Mindset, Heartset, Bodyset, Soulset  
      17. The Canopy and the curtains, which cover the bed and provide privacy -- for good or for ill.  
      18. The Shams, the bedspread and the bed skirts -- these cover up the bed, give a favorable and even a false impression to the world of what the bed is like, keep the real bed under wraps, as it were
10. 
    
11. Definition Marriage Commitment
     
    1. Commitment is essential
12.  
    1. Frame and box spring of the bed -- holds the whole structure of the bed together.  The commitment to loving the other person in the sacramental marriage covenant is vitally important
        
       1. No one else can do it for you.  Not even God.  
    2. 
       
13. 
    
    1. Definition of Marriage -- Fr. John Hardon, Modern Catholic Dictionary
14.  

MARRIAGE. As a natural institution, the lasting union of a man and a woman who agree to give and receive rights over each other for the performance of the act of generation and for the fostering of their mutual love.

The state of marriage implies four chief conditions: 

1.  there must be a union of opposite sexes; -- one man and one woman
2.  it is a permanent union until the death of either spouse;
    
   1. CCC 2382:  Between the baptized spouses, "a ratified and consummated marriage cannot be dissolved by any human power or for any reason other than death"   1983 CCL 1141
3.  
   1. Until Death  I will love you and honor you all the days of my life.
4.  
5. it is an exclusive union, so that extramarital acts are a violation of justice;
6. its permanence and exclusiveness are guaranteed by contract; mere living together, without mutually binding themselves to do so, is concubinage and not marriage.

Christ elevated marriage to a sacrament of the New Law. Christian spouses signify and partake of the mystery of that unity and fruitful love which exists between Christ and his Church, helping each other attain to holiness in their married life and in the rearing and education of their children.

1. Solemnified by Formal Vows
    
   1. Usually the only vow a Christian Layman or Laywoman will ever make
2.  
   1. CCC 2364:  Both spouses give themselves definitively and totally to one another.  They are no longer two; from now on they form one flesh.  The covenant they freely contracted imposes on the spouses the obligation to preserve it as unique and indissoluble.  
3. 
   
4. Originates in the will
    
   1.  I will love you and honor you all the days of my life  Love is an act of the will.  
5. 
   
   1. Not just a one-time event  I will love you and honor you all the days of my life.
6.  
   1. Ongoing willing, year to year, week to week, day to day, moment to moment
7.  
   1. But impacted by human formation and spiritual formation
8.  
   1. Supported in the natural realm by human formation, an awareness of attachment needs and integrity needs, an awareness of how complex w...

1. Intro:  I am clinical psychologist Peter Malinoski, and you are listening to the weekly podcast Interior Integration for Catholics
    
   1. Today in episode 63, we are discussing human formation -- what is it?  What do you mine it's missing for many people?
2.  
   1. Windup: I am going to start with a bold claim and a controversial claim.  
      1. For many, many Catholic adults in our day and age, in our culture, there is a much greater need to focus on human formation than on spiritual formation.
      2. Let me repeat that:  Many, many Catholic adults at this point in their lives need solid human formation more than they need spiritual formation.
          
         1. Serious Catholic adults.
      3.  
      4. Commitment to human formation is so important in the Catholic married sexual life that it composes two of the four legs of my model of a Catholic marriage bed.  
         1. The husband's commitment to human formation -- one leg
         2. The wife's commitment to human formation -- the other leg
         3. Another leg is really understanding attachment and integrity needs (episode 62)
         4. Another leg is a model the Internal family systems-informed model of the person with a self and with parts -- we are a unity and a multiplicity -- episodes 60 and 61. 
         5. The floor is the a deep, abiding, childlike trust in Mary our Spiritual Mother and God our Spiritual Father.  
         6. Building a whole bed here, starting in episode 58.  No need to review all of it now.   
      5. So many Catholics with lots of spiritual formation who have built their spiritual lives on a very, very unsound natural foundation, with mediocre or poor human formation. 
         1. So their spiritual lives are unstable.  
         2. Example of early client -- extreme example
             
            1. Mid 30's, very earnest Catholic, very sincere, distressed --  I have to help his wife understand the Faith.  Wife was Catholic, but a lot of tension between them about his spiritual practices.  
         3. 
            
            1. Danger of divorce -- wife: get to counseling or I'll divorce you 
         4. 
            
            1. Wife concerns?
                
               1. Spending three hours per day in Eucharistic Adoration
                   
                  1. Bringing their young children
               2.  
                  1. Our Lady of Lourdes
               3.  
            2. 
               
               1. No gainful employment
            3.  
               1. Wife feeling constantly criticized by his fraternal corrections, his attempts to help her become more holy.  
            4. 
               
         5. 
            
            1. Spiritual Problems?  No -- problems in the natural realm.  
               1. Blended with a part that is so driven by fear.  
               2. Part desperately trying to please an extremely demanding God and Mary -- trying to become holy, Pelagian efforts
               3. Lack of attunement to children -- alienated from them, they were becoming alienated from the faith
               4. Wedge in the marriage, wife thinks he's a religious nutcase.  
               5. He recognizes there are problems, wife needs to change
                   
                  1. Praying the Rosary
               6.  
                  1. Fatima Visionary Sr. Lucia:  There is no problem, I tell you, no matter how difficult it is, that we cannot resolve by the prayer of the Holy Rosary.
               7.  
         6. 
            
         7. Problems come from his distorted human formation.   
         8. Priest sex abuse scandal.  
            1. Can frame it all spiritually.  
               1. The priest who sexually abused children gave in to lust, it was a violation of the virtue of chastity, among other virtues.  Ok.  Hmmm.  So it was a spiritual problem, a failure, he gave into temptation.   No doubt there are spiritual dimensions to this, including a most grave and serious sin.  
               2. Or is a primary issue with his disordered sexual attraction to children and a real lack of impulse control --problems in the natural realm, a problem with his human formation.  That makes so much more sense to me as being primary.  
         9. Scrupulosity -- so often seen as a spiritual problem, but is one of the most frustrating issues for confessors and spiritual directors encounter -- so often it doesn't resolve with traditional spiritual means.
             
            1. Primarily in the natural realm.  Did a whole episode with Adam Cross The Catholic Therapist on human formation issues, the real issues in the natural realm that underlie scrupulosity.  
         10. 
             
      6. Serious Devastation -- original sin.  
         1. Effect on the human body -- death, illness, pain -- and now intensity of pain in childbirth, physical labor and toil to survive scratching out an existence from cursed ground.  
         2. Effect on the rest of our human formation
             
            1. Distrust of God
         3.  
            1. Fear
         4.  
            1. Anger
         5.  
            1. Loss of harmony
         6.  
            1. Really a kind of dis-integration -- in the world and inside of us.  
         7. 
            
      7. Grace perfects nature; it does not destroy it.  St. Thomas Aquinas
          
         1. We need to work with our human natures.  We need our human natures to be formed.  
      8. 
         
      9. Jesus discussed foundations
          
         1. Discussion of foundations in Scripture -- Matthew 7:24-27
             
            1. 24 “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. 26 And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.”
         2.  
      10. 
          
          1. Jesus as the cornerstone.
      11.  
      12. Algebra and arithmetic.  
      13. Hold up, we're getting ahead of ourselves here.  What is human formation?
3. 
   
4. Definitions
    
   1. Those who follow this Interior Integration for Catholic Podcast know that I am all about defining our terms.
       
      1. So much rests on a clear understanding of what we are discussing.
   2.  
      1. Human Formation, to be honest is a nebulous term.
          
         1. Used a lot in Catholic contexts -- primarily in seminary contexts.
      2.  
         1. A whole section is devoted to human formation in the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops document entitled "Program of Priestly Formation, Fifth Edition" which came out in 2006.  pages 29-42
             
            1. Longest and most complete discussion of human formation I could find in an official church document
         2.  
            1. 14 pages -- but no definition of human formation.  
               1. The foundation and center of all human formation is Jesus Christ, the word made flesh, paragraph 75
               2. Also in paragraph 75, we learn that "human formation is the 'necessary foundation' of priestly formation.  
               3. We learn that the goals of human formation is to foster growth so that a man can become 
                  1. A free person
                  2. Of solid moral character
                  3. Prudent and discerning
                  4. Invested in and capable of communion, of relating deeply with others
                  5. With Good communication skills
                  6.  Affective maturity - integration of feelings, thoughts and values
                  7. Who cares for his body
                  8. Who relates well with others
                  9. A good steward of material...

1. Intro:  This is Interior Integration for Catholics, it's great that you can join us, and today we are wrestling with the deep attachment needs and the deep integrity needs that Catholic spouses have. 
   1. In this life, we all have deep attachment needs and deep integrity needs
   2. We all struggle with deep attachment needs and deep integrity needs -- whether we realize it or not.  
   3. And some of those needs are unmet.  They cause us difficulties and suffering and tension in our important relationships
   4. Those unmet needs are part of being human in our fallen world.    
   5. How we choose to handle those attachment needs and integrity needs really determines how well our close relationships, especially our marriages go.  
      1. How the husband chooses to address his attachment needs and integrity needs will have a huge impact on his relationship with his wife
      2. How the wife chooses to address her attachment needs and her integrity needs will have a huge impact on her relationship with her husband.  
   6. Meeting these attachment needs and integrity needs well is foundational, essential for you to have a psychologically sound, a solid marriage relationship.  
   7. Today, in episode 62 of Interior Integration for Catholics, released on April 5, 2021, the sixth in our subseries on sexuality in Catholic marriages
       
      1. And it is titled:  Unmet Attachment Needs, Unmet Integrity Needs 
   8. 
      
      1. we won't just lay out all the definitions of our terms
          
         1. what are attachment needs, Dr. Peter?  
      2. 
         
         1. What are integrity needs? 
      3. 
         
   9. 
      
      1. We're not just going to discuss how these needs impact the rest of the marriage relationship
   10.  
       1. We're not just going to explore how sex in the Catholic marriage bed is impacted by these needs and our responses to them
   11.  
       1. No, wait, there's much more
   12.  
       1. We're going to also dive into how do you engage with these needs constructively -- how do we start on a course of action to really meet these needs.  So stay with me until the end and you will get really specific recommendations for setting up a personalized program to have your personal set of attachment needs and integrity needs met.  
   13. 
       
       1. This is such an important area that we are going to spend some time on it, more than just this one podcast.
   14.  
   15. I am Catholic psychologist Peter Malinoski, and I am bringing my 20 years of experience in the clinical trenches with real Catholics with real problems to bear on this question of attachment needs and integrity needs in this episode for you.  
   16. This podcast is part of Souls and Hearts, our online outreach -- check us out at soulsandhearts.com
        
       1. Souls and Hearts is all about shoring up our natural foundation for the Catholic spiritual life, all about overcoming psychological obstacles to being loved and to loving God and neighbor.
   17.  
2. Brief Review 
   1. Each episode stand on its own, no need to review if you don't want to, if you're just jumping in here that's great
   2. I do review from time to time because reviewing helps with spiral learning, with retaining things
   3. And because this podcast is programmatic, episodes build on each other, we're not just doing little isolated soundbites of information, odd, assorted nuggets.
   4. This is meant to be a program in your Catholic human formation to help you focus inward on your interior integration -- to help you bring together the different parts of yourself into unity and harmony in the natural realm
   5. So let's do a quick rewind here, just to catch you all up to date:
   6. [Insert review/rewind sound effect]
   7. I introduced the model of a Catholic Canopied Marriage Bed to represent the sexual life of a married Catholic couple in Episode 58.  
   8. The Catholic Canopied Married Bed has these interrelated parts
       
      1. The floor -- A deep abiding trust in the Presence of God and His Providence -- we started here in episode 59
   9.  
      1. The four legs -- these four supports hold up the Catholic marriage bed.  
         1. Leg 4.  Internal Family Systems Approaches to understanding myself and my spouse
             
            1. Covered this conceptually in episodes 60 and again with a story of a Catholic couples' problems in a sexual relationship in episode 61.
         2.  
         3. Leg 3.  Understanding my own and my spouse's attachment needs and integrity needs   -- this is what we are focus on today.
             
            1. In Episode 57 we discussed how the one main psychological reason why Catholic marriages fail is our response and reactions to deep unmet needs
         4.  
         5. Leg 2.  the wife's commitment to her own interior integration, her own human formation
         6. Leg 1.  the husband's commitment to his own interior integration and his own human formation
   10. 
       
       1. The frame and the box spring -- the firm, unwavering commitment of the husband his marriage vows and the wife to her marriage vows -- separately.  Independently
   11.  
       1. The mattress  Empathetic attunement
   12.  
       1.  Two pillows:  Self-acceptance and Spouse-acceptance 
   13. 
       
       1. Bottom Sheet, the fitted sheet:  sexual attraction, the intensity of sexual passion -- the eros
   14.  
       1. Top Sheet:  Communication between the spouses
   15.  
       1. The blankets:  human warmth, emotional connection
   16.  
       1. Four Bedposts 
          1. Mindset
          2. Heartset
          3. Bodyset
          4. Soulset
   17. 
       
       1. The canopy and the curtains -- to protect privacy and propriety or to hide dysfunction, exploitation, even abuse.  
   18. 
       
       1. The sham, the bedspread, and the bedskirt -- Used to cover up the real bed, give an impression of the state of married life to the world.  
   19. 
       
       1. All of these elements work together.  Dynamic model, which can change over time.  
   20. 
       
3. The Windup / the Hurdle -- What is our situation here?
    
   1. [Definition time sound effect]:  Definitions:  We all have attachment needs and we all have integrity needs
       
      1. Hard to find good summaries of these needs, hard to find good definitions, so here are my definitions.
   2.  
      1. Attachment needs = The needs that a child has for a deep and enduring emotional and relational bond with a caregiver, usually a parent, who provides a felt sense of closeness, security, understanding, reassurance in times of trouble, for affection and warmth, and a sense that someone really is looking out for my best interests.  
   3. 
      
      1. Integrity needs --  drawing from self-psychology here, Heinz Kohut  = The needs a child has for a sense of identity has the following features:
          
         1. A separate existence from others --  I exist in my own right, a separate person
      2.  
         1. Is bounded, has boundaries
      3.  
         1. is stable over time and across different situations
      4.  
         1. Self is regulated
      5.  
         1. Is integrated -- coherent interconnections inside between aspects of experience -- self-cohesion
      6.  
         1. Is active, with agency, can effectively function in the world

1. Intro: Welcome to the podcast Interior Integration for Catholics 
   1. Interior Integration for Catholics brings to you in each episode the best psychological information essential for your human formation, knowledge that is fundamental in shoring up the natural foundation for your Catholic spiritual life.  
   2. This podcast helps you focus inward on your interior integration -- to help you bring together the different parts of yourself into unity and harmony with God in the natural realm.
   3. In this podcast, we confront the tough internal questions we Catholics have in our day-to-day lives, we confront head-on our struggles in the natural realm, the psychological difficulties that keep us from fully loving our Lord and our Lady in a deep, personal, intimate way and living out our vocations, including our vocation to Catholic marriage which necessarily brings in both sexuality and religion.
   4. And we're dealing with sexuality and religion in this episode for two primary reasons: first to free you to love God our Father, Jesus our Brother, the Holy Spirit and Our Mother Mary more and more over time and 
   5. Second, to love you neighbor as yourself -- And who is your neighbor?  If you are married, your first neighbor, your closest neighbor, the neighbor toward whom you have the most responsibilities is your spouse.  Because of your marriage vows.  
   6. I’m clinical psychologist Peter Malinoski and I am here with you, to be your host and guide.  
   7. This podcast is part of Souls and Hearts, our online outreach at soulsandhearts.com, which is all about shoring up our natural foundation for the Catholic spiritual life, all about overcoming psychological obstacles to being loved and to loving God and neighbor.
   8. We are celebrating our one year anniversary.  First podcast launched March 20, 2020
       
      1. Success
          
         1. The majority of podcasts don't make it to 14 episodes
      2.  
         1. Because of you
             
            1. Very niche audience
         2.  
            1. This one has risen to top 10% based on downloads
         3.  
            1. Tells me there is a hunger out there.   
         4. 
            
      3. 
         
   9. 
      
      1. Gratitude
   10.  
       1. Appreciation
   11.  
       1. Your support increases my motivation.  
   12. 
       
   13. This is episode 60, released on March 22, 2021
   14. And it is titled: How Well Do You Really Know Your Spouse?  
   15. This is the 12th episode in our series on sexuality, the fourth in our subseries on sexuality in Catholic marriages 
   16. Continuing with the model of a Catholic Canopied Marriage Bed to illuminate what happens sexually in Catholic marriages.  
   17. Episode 58 -- I provided you with the model of a Catholic canopied marriage bed.  
       1. Remember this canopied marriage bed represents the sexual life of a married Catholic couple.  
          1. The floor -- The Presence of God and His Providence -- we started here in the last episode, episode 59
          2. The four legs
              
             1. Leg 1 -- the husband's commitment to his own interior integration and his own human formation
          3.  
             1. Leg 2.  the wife's commitment to her own interior integration, her own human formation
          4.  
             1. Leg 3.  Understanding my own and my spouse's attachment needs and integrity needs   
          5. 
             
             1. Leg 4.  Internal Family Systems Approaches to understanding myself and my spouse
                 
                1. We are really exploring this leg first, in this podcast episode.  
             2. 
                
          6. 
             
          7. The frame and the box spring -- the firm, unwavering commitment of the husband his marriage vows and the wife to her marriage vows -- separately.  Independently
          8. The mattress  Empathetic attunement
          9.  Two pillows:  Self-acceptance and Spouse-acceptance 
          10. Bottom Sheet:  sexual attraction, the intensity of sexual passion
          11. Top Sheet:  Communication between the spouses
          12. The blankets:  human warmth, emotional connection
          13. Four Bedposts -- imagine two spiral intertwined, like the double-helix structure of DNA
               
              1. Mindset
          14.  
              1. Heartset
          15.  
              1. Bodyset
          16.  
              1. Soulset
          17.  
          18. The canopy and the curtains -- to protect privacy and propriety or to hide dysfunction, exploitation, even abuse.  
          19. The sham, the bedspread, and the bedskirt -- Used to cover up the real bed, give an impression of the state of married life to the world.  
       2. Review:  So we've only just begun with this metaphor.  Now starting in the next episode, we are going to walk step by step through all the elements of the Catholic marriage bed, through all the components of married Catholic sexual life.  We're going to cover all the bases slowly and thoroughly so that all components, all the pieces become clear. 
          1. We will look at what each part of the Catholic marriage bed looks like when it is healthy as well as what can go wrong with each part of the bed.  
          2. Just as important, how all the pieces of the marriage bed, healthy or unhealthy are related to each other, how they interconnect and how those elements of Catholic Married sexual life can change over time.  
   18. Over and over and over again, I have had Catholic couples in my office discussing their marital problems, their sexual problems.
   19. And over and over and over again, I come to the same conclusion -- Catholic couples who are married, 5, 15, 25, 40 years or more do not really know their spouses.  
       1. They know a lot about their spouses
           
          1. biographical details
       2.  
          1. They know a lot about behaviors their spouses do
       3.  
       4. But their internalized image of the spouse, their working model of the spouse is way off
           
          1. Very two dimensional
       5.  
          1. Very simplistic
       6.  
          1. Interpreted through our own filters and lenses
       7.  
       8. Lots of reasons for this and we'll get into them today.  
   20. So this episode is titled What You Don't Know About Your Spouse Can Hurt Both of You.  
   21. So get ready, prepare yourself for light bulbs to switch on and shine brightly as we explore new and much clearer ways of thinking about sexual life in Catholic marriages, grounded in the perennial teachings of the Catholic Church and informed by the best of psychology. 
2. The Windup / the Hurdle -- What is our situation here.
    
   1. Five Bold claims:
       
      1. You don't really know your spouse.  
   2. 
      
      1. Your spouse doesn't really know you.  
   3. 
      
      1. Your Father doesn't or didn't really know your mother
   4.  
      1. Your mother doesn't or didn't really know your father
   5.  
      1. And you don't really know you.  
   6. 
      
3. 
   
   1. Not just talking about troubled marriages here.  Not just talking about Catholic marriages in general.  I'm also talking about those Catholic marriages that you admire.  
4. 
   
   1. In these days, very few people really deeply enter into the phenomenological world of anyone -- anyone else or even oneself.  
5. 
   
   1. Bold claims.  Explain yourself, Dr. Peter.  I don't know ...

1. Intro: Welcome to the podcast Interior Integration for Catholics 
   1. Interior Integration for Catholics brings to you in each episode the best psychological information essential for your human formation, knowledge that is fundamental in shoring up the natural foundation for your Catholic spiritual life.  
   2. This podcast helps you focus inward on your interior integration -- to help you bring together the different parts of yourself into unity and harmony with God in the natural realm.
   3. In this podcast, we confront the tough internal questions we Catholics have in our day-to-day lives, we confront head-on our struggles in the natural realm, the psychological difficulties that keep us from fully loving our Lord and our Lady in a deep, personal, intimate way and living out our vocations, including our vocation to Catholic marriage which necessarily brings in both sexuality and religion.
   4. And we're dealing with sexuality and religion in this episode for two primary reasons: first to free you to love God our Father, Jesus our Brother, the Holy Spirit and Our Mother Mary more and more over time and 
   5. Second, to love you neighbor as yourself -- And who is your neighbor?  If you are married, your first neighbor, your closest neighbor, the neighbor toward whom you have the most responsibilities is your spouse.  Because of your marriage vows.  
   6. I’m clinical psychologist Peter Malinoski and I am here with you, to be your host and guide.  
   7. This podcast is part of Souls and Hearts, our online outreach at soulsandhearts.com, which is all about shoring up our natural foundation for the Catholic spiritual life, all about overcoming psychological obstacles to being loved and to loving God and neighbor
   8. This is episode 59, released on March 15, 2021
   9. This is the 11th episode in our series on sexuality the second in our subseries on Catholic marriages 
   10. Now we are zeroing in on sexuality within Catholic marriages and we're going diagnose some extremely common relational problems between Catholic spouses that get expressed through how they relate sexually.  
   11. So this episode is titled Mystery, Covenant, Vocation, and Being "Submissive" in the Marriage Bed. So get ready, prepare yourself for light bulbs to switch on and shine brightly as we explore new and much clearer ways of thinking about sexual life in Catholic marriages, grounded in the perennial teachings of the Catholic Church and informed by the best of psychology. 
   12. I'm doing this subseries on sexuality within Catholic marriage because I want you to have ways out of the sexual traps that so many Catholic married couple find themselves in, the negative cycles, the problematic repeating patterns that are so frustrating, that cause so much conflict and that harm people, even Catholic spouses who want to do the right thing.   
   13. And even if you're not trapped, your marriage is sound, love is growing -- there is going to be so much in these episodes to deepen the understanding, the awareness, the empathy, the commitment, and the love.  
2. The lay of the land
    
   1. Podcast oriented toward Catholic serious about the faith
3.  
   1. But we are imperfect.   We forget who we are -- we forget that we are beloved children of God when we get blended with parts of us that are overcome with the intensity of emotions, passions 
4. 
   
   1. And Marriage is a huge challenge.  Catholic Scripture Scholar Peter Williamson:  Catholic Commentary on the Sacred Scriptures Ephesians Baker Academic p. 154  "Probably no element of human life arouses more longing and hope for happiness, yet yields as much pain and disappointment as marriage."  
5. 
   
   1. Conscious or unconscious assumptions:
       
      1. Sex is dirty.  God doesn't want us to have sex.  
   2. 
      
      1. But sex is also necessary
          
         1. I'm married
      2.  
         1. Procreation: Be fruitful and multiply
      3.  
   3. 
      
6. 
   
   1. Shame.  Episode 49
       
      1. Shame is at the center -- hard to talk about this because it is so personal and so intimate, and often so bound up with shame.  
         1. Sexuality not talked about, not discussed
         2. Sexuality part and parcel of our bodies, all about our bodies
         3. Catholics who are serious about their faith often have a propensity to start with self-judgement and self-condemnation, like at the end of a trial, without really understanding themselves well.
             
            1. Internal self-shaming
         4.  
         5. And all of this makes sense, makes sense, because almost all of us Catholic adults have sinned sexually.  
         6. So many unmet needs and coded messages being expressed through sexuality -- can seem like a minefield
         7. Often leads to avoiding God
         8. Model of suppression and condemnation. Out of conscious awareness, then it doesn't exist any more
         9. Lots of bad advice out there. 
   2. 
      
      1. So we try to go it alone and often that means without God
   3.  
7. 
   
8. Anthropological basis
    
   1. All practices of psychology are grounded in an anthropology
       
      1. Philosophy
   2.  
      1. Theology
   3.  
      1. Epistemology
   4.  
      1. Metaphysics
   5.  
      1. Logic
   6.  
9. 
   
   1. Feminist Psychology
10.  
    1. This episode -- more spiritual foundation.  I want you to understand where I am coming from.  
11. 
    
    1. Fundamental Need to Grip on to Romans 8:28
        
       1. High stakes table
    2.  
       1. Pain and disappointment
           
          1. Wanting spouse to be God -- Unmet needs, episode 57
       2.  
          1. The Vision -- Considering Parts in Marriage
              
             1. The real reasons why Catholic Sacramental Marriages Fail
                 
                1. Parts with unmet attachment needs.  Deep relational needs, often unconscious
             2.  
                1. Attachment needs -- held by parts
                    
                   1. Seen, Heard, Known, Understood
                2.  
                   1. Safety, Security
                3.  
                   1. Comforted, Soothed Reassured
                4.  
                   1. Cherished, Rejoiced in, Delighted in
                5.  
                   1. Willing the highest good
                6.  
             3. 
                
                1. Leads to self-absorption
                    
                   1. Definition of self-absorption  -- preoccupied with oneself or one’s own affairs, sometimes to the point of excluding others or the outside world.”  
                2. 
                   
                   1. Needs for God not being met  
                3. 
                   
                   1. Makes sense that people look for these needs to be met in marriage
                       
                      1. Marriage as the "last great hope"
                   2.  
                      1. Puts tremendous pressure on the marriage
                   3.  
                      1. Leads to utterly unrealistic expectations for the marriage -- spouse can't do anything right
                   4.  
                4. 
                   
                   1. Wanting the Spouse to be God.  
                5. 
                   
             4. 
                
                1. Parts taking over
                    
                   1. It's parts of us that are angry, disappointed, disillusioned that want to give up on marriages and give up on God. 
                2. 
                   
                   1. It's parts of us that  
                3. 
                   
             5. 
                
          2. 
             
       3. 
          
    3. 
       
12.