As AI models grow larger and more powerful, they promise incredible capabilities — but at what cost?

Karen Hao is an AI journalist and her new book, Empire of AI: Dreams and Nightmares in Sam Altman's OpenAI, is a New York Times bestseller.

We discuss whether the largest AI models are worth their hefty footprint: They consume massive amounts of electricity and water and Karen argues that smaller models better balance cost vs. benefit.

Karen, who has reported for The Atlantic, MIT Technology Review, and the Wall Street Journal, will also provide a view of AI from outside — far outside — Silicon Valley. She’s reported on AI from across the Global South and says many there feel that AI is a new form of colonialism.

We’ll hear about the fight over data centers in Chile, how New Zealand’s Maori people are using AI to preserve their indigenous language, and why it’s a problem that AI can speak any language, but can only really be policed in a few.

(Our interview was first broadcast in October, while Karen was still writing the book, so we do not discuss her deeply sourced reporting from inside OpenAI.)

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