Text us your questions!

Randy and Kyle sit down with Milwaukee pastor and author Matt Erickson to explore a different vision of pastoral ministry: not the pastor as CEO, brand manager, or religious expert, but the pastor as gardener. Matt’s book, The Pastor as Gardener: A Renewed Vision for Ministry, grows out of real ministry pressure, including moral failures, church decline, the pandemic, and the strain of navigating racial justice and polarization in a multiracial congregation.

We dig into why agrarian imagery in Scripture still has bite for modern life, even in an urban church context. The gardener metaphor reframes leadership around cultivation instead of control: planting and watering while admitting we can’t manufacture growth. That shift changes what we celebrate, what we fear, and what we measure, especially when the visible “fruit” of ministry looks strong but the hidden “roots” of prayer, integrity, and interior life are neglected.

From there, we talk about what shepherding can still mean today, why care for the sick and grieving often gets delegated away, and why pastors need space to evolve without being treated like they’ve failed. Along the way we touch Gregory of Nyssa, Marilynne Robinson’s Gilead, and the pressure for pastors to project certainty in a world where nobody can be an expert at everything.

Look for Part 2 of this conversation in a couple weeks.

=====

Want to support us?

The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.

If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal.

Other important info:

• Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify
• Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast
• Watch & comment on YouTube
• Email us at [email protected]

Cheers!