Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.

Today Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by author James Montague to discuss his new book 'Engulfed' - exploring Saudi Arabia's massive investments in sport.

James gives unique insights on the history of Saudi football, the Vision 2030 project, and how Newcastle United's takeover fits into the larger picture. You'll find out how strategic use of 'soft power' has transformed Saudi Arabia's global image through sport.

The trio examine the rich football culture in Saudi Arabia, the country's evolving social landscape, and the geopolitics influencing these changes.

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00:00 Introduction

00:17 James Montague's Early Works and Reviews

01:28 Re-release and Sequel: Engulfed

01:59 Saudi Arabia's Emergence in Sports

03:26 Sports Washing and Soft Power

06:47 Historical Context and Saudi Investments

11:10 Mohammad bin Salman's Rise to Power

23:57 The Khashoggi Incident and Its Aftermath

30:13 Saudi Arabia's Football Culture

31:24 Challenges of Covering Saudi Arabia

33:52 Women in Saudi Football

35:15 Jimmy Hill's Influence on Saudi Football

40:33 David Icke's Saudi Adventure

46:10 Vision 2030 and Saudi Football Investments

52:26 Neom's Football Ambitions

57:34 Conclusion and Book Promotion

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Welcome back to It Was What It Was.

It's the final installment of our three-part series exploring the rise and fall of the American Soccer League. Jonathan and Rob dive into internal conflicts within the ASL, the 1929 Wall Street crash, and how its devastating effects exposed the vulnerabilities of the fledgling league.

But all is not lost - with another significant attempt to establish professional soccer in the U.S....

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00:00 Introduction to the Series and Bela Gutmann's Influence

01:13 The Rise of the American Soccer League (ASL)

01:51 Innovations and Controversies in American Soccer

06:23 Financial Growth and International Tensions

08:17 The Playoff System and League Complications

10:53 The Struggles of Smaller Franchises

15:06 The Breakaway and Formation of the Eastern Soccer League

17:31 Chaos and Competition Between Leagues

22:24 The Soccer War and Its Impact

23:57 The Decline of the American Soccer League

25:27 The Wall Street Crash and Its Consequences

27:20 The Struggles of Key Figures and Teams

29:36 The Final Collapse of the ASL

34:25 Analysing the Failure of Soccer in the US

38:08 Comparing US and European Sports Models

45:36 The Future of Soccer in the US

49:17 Conclusion and What's Next

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In today's It Was What It Was, Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson continue to explore the fascinating story of soccer in the United States.

Highlighting the pivotal role of immigrant communities in the sport's development, the episode also examines key figures like Bela Gutmann and the significant tours by foreign teams that attracted huge crowds.

Join us for the conclusion of this three-part series on Tuesday.

00:00 Introduction to Bela Gutmann's New York Era

00:51 The Pre-History of American Soccer

01:36 Challenges in Establishing Soccer in the U.S.

02:26 The First Professional Soccer League

04:24 Financial Struggles and League Dynamics

07:16 Formation and Early Years of the American Soccer League

20:53 Innovations and Comparisons with Other Sports

24:19 College Football's Dominance and Soccer's Struggles

25:39 The Role of Universities in American Sports

26:14 Challenges in Early American Soccer

26:53 The Rise of the New York Giants

27:44 Fall River Marksmen's Dominance

28:25 Economic Struggles and Soccer's Impact

29:29 The League's Early Successes and Challenges

30:14 Expansion and New Teams

31:13 Player Transfers and Immigration Issues

33:19 The American Menace and Scottish Football

34:49 International Influence and Jewish Tours

41:07 The Impact of Jewish Players and Fans

44:23 The Maccabees and Tactical Evolution

47:49 The League's Growing Popularity and Issues

50:32 Concluding Thoughts and Future Outlook

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In this episode of It Was What It Was, Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson dive into the early history of soccer in the United States.

They look at efforts to establish professional leagues, the influence of immigrant communities, and the geographic and cultural factors that made it difficult for football to gain a foothold - compared to rival American sports.

This episode is the first of a three-part series. Join us on Friday as the story continues!

If you’re enjoying the podcast, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show.

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction to American Soccer

01:08 Early History of Soccer in the USA

02:00 Challenges and Attempts to Establish Soccer

02:38 Soccer's Struggle for Popularity

06:06 The Role of Universities in American Football

17:16 Immigrant Influence on American Soccer

17:43 Regional Hotbeds of Soccer

24:18 Formation of Early Soccer Leagues

27:43 The Rise of Fall River and Early American Football

28:31 Economic Challenges and League Suspensions

29:18 Comparing Football Cultures: UK vs. US

33:11 Baseball's Influence on Early American Soccer

38:53 The Birth of the US Football Association

41:36 Challenges and Growth of Early US Soccer

46:52 Bethlehem Steel and the Industrial Influence

51:01 The Challenge Cup and Regional Rivalries

52:09 Concluding Thoughts and Future Prospects

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Welcome back to It Was What It Was.

Rob and Jonathan are joined by David Corner - the man whose life was changed forever by the 1985 League Cup Final between Sunderland and Norwich.

That match is remembered for a costly mistake that led to Sunderland’s defeat - a moment that saw David singled out, subjected to intense criticism and even physical abuse from his own fans.

David shares his story with Jonathan and Rob, reflecting on how that experience shaped his life, the challenges he faced in the aftermath, and how he found the strength to move forward.

If you’re enjoying the series, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show.

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Welcome back to It Was What It Was.

With Liverpool and Newcastle set to battle for the first major trophy of the English domestic season on Sunday, we’re taking a journey through some of the greatest League Cup finals of all time. 

Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper each share three of their favourite finals - games filled with drama, controversy, and unforgettable moments that have defined the competition. Have we missed any of your favourites? Get in touch with @ItWasPod

On Friday we have a special episode featuring David Corner, reflecting on Sunderland’s heartbreaking defeat in 1985.

If you’re enjoying the series, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show.

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Welcome back to It Was What It Was.

Mikel Arteta’s transformation of Arsenal, Unai Emery’s tactical mastery, Xabi Alonso’s meteoric rise at Bayer Leverkusen, and Andoni Iraola’s fearless pressing at AFC Bournemouth all highlight a remarkable trend: A new wave of coaches shaping the modern game, many of them from the Basque Country.

But why does this small region produce so many elite managers? Is it the coaching philosophy, the deep footballing culture, or something ingrained in the Basque identity?

This is the story of how a new generation of Basque coaches are redefining football.

If you’re enjoying the series, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show.

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Welcome back to It Was What It Was.

This week - we discuss the rise of Basque coaching. But we begin not in Bilbao or San Sebastián, but with a Catalan: Pep Guardiola.

After revolutionising football with Barcelona, dominating in Germany with Bayern, and redefining the Premier League with Manchester City, Guardiola has become the defining coach of his era. 

But after a turbulent season at City, questions are emerging: Is this the beginning of the end for his football? Have opponents finally caught up with his ideas? Or does he have another reinvention left?

This is the story of how Guardiola reshaped the modern game—and what comes next. Part two, on the Basque coaching revolution, will be released on Friday.

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Welcome back to It Was What It Was. This is the story of a new dawn - where one national team took full control of their destiny, cementing a legacy that continues to shape football today.

Following their World Cup triumph (in our last part), the U.S. Women's side entered a new era of independence and power - and with it came major shifts.

Coach Tony DiCicco became a casualty of the team’s growing influence, making way for fresh leadership and a transformed vision. But tensions were surfacing behind the scenes, with a showdown between star player Brandi Chastain and new coach April Heinrichs...

If you’re enjoying the series, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show.

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Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast..

Approaching the end of the millennium, the U.S. women’s national team had already won a World Cup and Olympic gold, but they were still fighting for mainstream recognition. That all changed when they took centre stage at the 1999 Women’s World Cup.

With 90,000 fans packing the Rose Bowl and millions watching around the world, the final against China became a defining moment - not just for the U.S. team, but for women’s football as a whole. Brandi Chastain’s iconic penalty, the sold-out stadiums, and the sheer spectacle of the tournament proved that women’s football wasn’t just growing - it had arrived.

This is the story of how the 1999 World Cup reshaped the sport forever.

If you’re enjoying the series, please subscribe and leave a five-star review.

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