Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast! Join co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper as they welcome special guest Richard Hough, author of 'Verona Capone, the Miracle of 85'. In this episode, Richard delves into the extraordinary story of Hellas Verona's incredible 1984-85 Serie A title win. From the chaotic Italian football landscape of the 1980s, managerial masterstrokes, and key foreign signings, to the unforgettable moments and lasting impact on the city of Verona, this episode is a deep dive into one of football's most romantic underdog stories. Join us as we explore how a small provincial team conquered giants like AC Milan and Juventus to achieve an unexpected and historic league victory.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome

01:02 Setting the Scene: 1980s Italian Football

02:21 Verona's Rise to Glory

03:28 Economic and Social Context

05:08 Key Players and Strategic Moves

12:15 Tactical Insights and Coaching Philosophy

15:15 Foreign Players and Their Impact

22:55 The Perfect Season Opener

25:04 The Opening Goal and Season Kickoff

25:29 Verona's Iconic Moments and Key Players

30:05 The Turning Point in the Season

33:01 The Final Stretch to the Title

40:42 Celebrations and Legacy

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Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.

It’s FA Cup final week, with Manchester City set to take on Crystal Palace at Wembley. In this episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper revisit the dramatic story of Palace’s remarkable run to the 1990 FA Cup Final.

Just months after a crushing 9-0 defeat to Liverpool, Crystal Palace stunned the same side in a sensational 4-3 semi-final — a match still regarded as one of the greatest in FA Cup history. That victory set up a final against Sir Alex Ferguson’s Manchester United, who, at the time, were still chasing their first trophy under his management.

Today, we delve into where Crystal Palace stood as a club in 1990, explore their tactical shifts, highlight standout performances — especially the impact of Ian Wright — and examine Manchester United’s situation under Ferguson, including the pivotal moments that led to his first silverware with the club. We also examine whether Palace could shock Manchester City and finally win the FA Cup for the first time in their history.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction

02:23 Crystal Palace's Journey to the Semis

03:37 Televised Semifinals and Hillsborough's Impact

11:55 Crystal Palace's Tactical Shift

15:17 The Dramatic Semifinal Match

20:39 Crystal Palace's Historic FA Cup Final

21:06 Manchester United's Journey to the 1990 FA Cup Final

25:55 Ian Wright's Miraculous Comeback

28:35 The Replay and Ferguson's First Trophy

31:56 Comparing Crystal Palace Eras

36:05 Can Crystal Palace Upset Manchester City?

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Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In today's episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper look back on the rich history of Goodison Park, Everton's storied home ground, as it approaches its final days.

From setting the history into the building of the iconic stadium to picking out unforgettable matches to legendary players, relive iconic moments such as Dixie Dean's record-setting 60 goals in one season, Eusebio's praise at the 1966 World Cup, the famous 1994 relegation battle against Wimbledon and Wayne Rooney's spectacular goal against Arsenal.

Join us as we celebrate the legacy of one of England's most beloved football stadiums.

What's your favourite Goodison Park memory? Get in touch on @ItWasPod on X.

Please don't forget to leave a review and recommend to your friends!

00:00 Introduction and Opening Remarks

00:33 The Significance of Goodison Park

01:44 Architectural and Historical Insights

04:32 Memorable Matches and Moments

07:11 Archibald Leitch's Legacy

26:15 Everton's last day survival in 1994 and Match-Fixing Scandal

29:33 The1966 World Cup

40:34 Dixie Dean's 60th Goal of the season

47:27 Wayne Rooney's Stunning Debut Goal

49:44 Farewell to Goodison Park

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Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.

Today co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper speak of the remarkable journey of Harry Kane, who recently clinched the Bundesliga title with Bayern Munich; the first trophy in his career.

Recounting his early days at Arsenal youth, to multiple rejections, and loan spells that nearly derailed his career, the episode highlights Kane’s undeterred determination and resilience. Discover how pivotal moments and key influences, such as Mauricio Pochettino and a documentary on Tom Brady, transformed him into one of football’s greatest strikers.

We end with a quiz, as Rob tests Jonathan's knowledge of British and Irish players who won major league titles abroad!

00:00 Introduction: A Childhood Memory

00:35 The Arsenal Release: A Turning Point

00:43 Celebrating Harry Kane's Achievements

01:02 The Early Struggles and Resilience

02:36 Harry Kane's Background and Family

03:06 Youth Football Journey

05:38 Challenges and Determination

14:27 Loan Spells and Growth

18:40 Millwall Experience and Growing Up

21:34 Norwich Loan: A Tough Period

27:16 Unexpected Laughter and Player Comparisons

28:02 Struggles at Leicester City

29:36 Turning Point: The Tom Brady Inspiration

31:13 Breakthrough Under Sherwood

32:33 Skepticism and Early Success

35:04 Pochettino's Influence and Physical Transformation

38:36 Near Misses and Final Disappointments

43:12 Legacy and Comparisons with Other Greats

47:43 Quiz on British and Irish Players Abroad

52:59 Conclusion and Reflections on Harry Kane's Career

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Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.

In this week’s episode, we turn our attention to Liverpool’s extraordinary journey through their history, culminating in Arne Slot’s Premier League title-winning side.

Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper trace the club’s legacy from its early 20th-century triumphs to modern-day glory.

They explore the tactical revolutions under legendary managers like Bill Shankly and Bob Paisley, the brilliance of iconic players in Kenny Dalglish and Ian Rush, and the resurgence under Jürgen Klopp. The episode also highlights how Arne Slot has carried that legacy forward, building on the foundations laid by his predecessors.

Where does the 2024/25 Liverpool title winners rank amongst the club's greatest ever teams? Get in touch with @ItWasPod on X to let us know!

00:00 Introduction to Liverpool's Journey

01:42 Early Liverpool Champions: 1901-1923

02:42 The Impact of Tom Watson

06:24 Liverpool's Defensive Strengths

07:46 Post-War Liverpool: Nutrition and Success

08:46 The Rise of Billy Liddell

10:17 Jack Balmer's Unlikely Heroics

15:20 Liverpool's First Five Titles

16:34 Bill Shankly's Legacy

20:55 Bob Paisley's Tactical Brilliance

26:18 Liverpool's Dominance in the Late 70s

27:12 Liverpool's Dominant Back Four

27:52 Dalglish vs. Keegan: Who's Better?

29:08 The Greatest Liverpool Side of All Time?

29:54 European Cup Draw and Unfortunate Knockout

33:29 Transition to the Kenny Dalglish Era

37:53 Impact of Hillsborough and the 1989 Season

41:55 Liverpool's Modern Era and Klopp's Influence

46:46 Future Prospects and Final Thoughts

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Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.

Liverpool wrapped up their 20th English league title at the weekend, so today co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper focus on the fascinating career of manager Arne Slot who has won the Premier League at his first attempt at Anfield.

Beginning with his unique upbringing in a football-centric Dutch Bible Belt town, we explore how watching his father coach from a young age shaped Slot's tactical mind, travel through his early playing days, his reputation as a tactician, and his impressive managerial stints that led him to win the Eredivisie with Feyenoord and now the Premier League with Liverpool.

On Friday, Jonathan and Rob will assess where Slot's Liverpool title winners sit in Liverpool's glorious history.

00:00 Introduction: A Coach's Son

00:40 Early Life and Background of Arne Slot

01:26 The Dutch Football Culture

03:01 Influence of Johan Cruyff and Total Football

05:02 Arne Slot's Youth and Early Football Education

07:11 Professional Career Beginnings

13:40 Tactical Innovations and Coaching Philosophy

21:58 The Early Coaching Journey of Arne Slot

23:14 Challenges and Successes at Cambuur

25:56 Influence of Pep Guardiola and Data Analytics

29:10 Rise at AZ Alkmaar

34:43 Success at Feyenoord and Coaching Style

43:45 Legacy and Future Prospects

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Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.

It's time for Part Two of Pep vs Jose! As Barcelona and Inter prepare to face off once again in this year’s Champions League semi-final, we look back at the original - a tie that shaped modern football.

Guardiola vs Mourinho. All-out attack vs. tactical defiance. Ideology, rivalry - maybe even good vs. evil?

Fifteen years ago, Pep’s all-conquering Barcelona met Jose's Inter Milan in a Champions League semi-final that didn’t just decide who reached the final - it helped define a footballing era.

Having set the scene in part one, Rob and Jonathan relive the incredible semi-final battles, where Mourinho would ultimately dethrone Guardiola in an incredible second-leg at the Nou Camp - which saw a controversial sending off, late drama and an iconic pitch celebration.

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00:00 Introduction and Setting the Scene

00:45 The Clash of Philosophies: Mourinho vs. Guardiola

01:32 The Tactical Battle Begins

04:32 The Volcano Eruption and Its Impact

10:24 First Leg Highlights and Analysis

13:18 Ibrahimović's Conflict and Mourinho's Mind Games

18:06 The Build-Up to the Second Leg

25:23 The Myth of the Decision

25:41 The Controversial Red Card

26:54 Conspiracy Theories and Psychological Influence

27:52 The Clash of Good vs. Evil

28:34 Tactical Fouling and Pep's Cynical Side

29:59 Marina's Critique of Barcelona's Tactics

31:37 Inter's Defensive Masterclass

34:13 The Struggle Against Possession Football

36:38 The Final Moments and Disallowed Goal

40:03 Marino's Triumphant Celebration

43:16 The Aftermath and Legacy

46:43 The Tactical Evolution in Football

48:58 The Importance of Non-Possession Football

50:28 Conclusion and Reflections

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Welcome to It Was What It Was.

As Barcelona and Inter prepare to face off once again in this year’s Champions League semi-final, we look back at the original - a tie that shaped modern football.

Pep Guardiola vs. José Mourinho. All-out attack vs. tactical defiance. Ideology, rivalry - maybe even good vs. evil?

Fifteen years ago, Pep’s all-conquering Barcelona met Mourinho’s Inter Milan in a Champions League semi-final that didn’t just decide who reached the final - it helped define a footballing era.

In Part One, Rob and Jonathan set the scene: how Mourinho’s Inter came to challenge the most dominant team in the world, the tactics he used, the battles he fought in Italy, and how both sides arrived at this collision point chasing domestic and European glory.

Part Two drops Friday, where Rob and Jonathan break down the epic semi-final itself.

00:00 Barcelona's Football Perfection

01:48 Mourinho vs. Guardiola: A Rivalry Begins

02:47 The Dark Side of Mourinho

03:25 Star Wars Analogies and Football Tactics

06:53 Mourinho's Seven-Point Plan

07:45 Mourinho's Philosophy and Evolution

08:43 Mourinho's Journey to Inter Milan

09:58 Cultural Expectations and Pragmatic Football

12:23 Mourinho's Press Conference Antics

13:44 Mourinho's Linguistic Brilliance

14:49 Mourinho's Training Philosophy

20:04 Key Matches and Tactical Shifts

21:16 Mourinho's First Season at Inter

22:27 Transfer Drama: Stars on the Move

23:51 Barcelona's Dominance and Challenges

26:40 Inter's Journey to the Semifinals

28:57 Mourinho's Tactical Mastery

32:29 Controversies and Confrontations

40:24 The Road to the Semifinals

43:57 Setting the Stage for the Epic Semifinal

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Welcome back to It Was What It Was. It's time for part two of our look at the unexpected role a horse would play in the controversial takeover of Manchester United by the Glazer family.

The episode covers the period of the Glazer acquisition, the impact of their ownership, and the financial manoeuvres that transformed the club.

From Alex Ferguson's complicated relationship with the Glazers to the missed opportunities and recruitment challenges that followed, this episode gives an in-depth look at how Manchester United's fate was sealed - and the horse that might have started it all!

00:00 The Decline of Manchester United: A 20-Year Journey

00:20 Introduction to the Football History Podcast

00:48 The Gibraltar Incident and Its Fallout

01:26 The Glazers' Takeover: A Turning Point

02:24 The Financial Strategy of the Glazers

02:54 The Early Signs of Trouble

03:58 The Glazers' Background and Business Practices

04:48 The Impact of Global Capital on Football

06:24 The Glazers' Vision and Strategy

08:43 The Financial Mechanics of the Takeover

10:41 The Role of Debt in Modern Football

11:54 The Glazers' Financial Maneuvering

14:32 The Aftermath and Long-Term Consequences

16:15 The Glazers' Legacy and Future Implications

18:26 The Financial Crisis and Its Impact on Football

20:57 The Leveraged Buyout Explained

22:52 The Final Stages of the Takeover

30:47 The Glazer Takeover and Initial Success

31:17 Fan Protests and Opposition

34:52 Financial Strain and Missed Opportunities

37:32 The Role of Ed Woodward

43:18 Transfer Market Failures

46:15 Managerial Missteps

53:37 The Glazers' Disconnect and Conclusion

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Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.

In today's episode, hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by journalist David Walsh to explore how the modern fortunes of Manchester United are intertwined with one of the greatest racehorses in history.

This is the extraordinary story of Rock of Gibraltar, the famed racehorse part-owned by Sir Alex Ferguson - and how his connections and relationships with John Magnier, and JP McManus would ultimately impact the Glazers' takeover of Manchester United.

David Walsh shares insider details from his investigative work on the story, making this one of the most fascinating sports sagas of recent times.

Tune in on Friday for part two, and the implications of the Glazers' takeover - and Manchester United's decline.

00:00 The Tale of the Lost Kingdom

00:25 Introduction to the Podcast and Special Guest

00:35 The Story of Rock of Gibraltar

01:25 David Walsh's Insights

02:28 The Connection Between Sir Alex Ferguson and John Magner

07:36 The Rise of Rock of Gibraltar

17:21 The Dispute Over Ownership

19:26 The Financial Implications

29:04 Ownership Dispute and Legal Battle

29:52 High Court Drama and Stakeholder Tensions

30:50 Public Fallout and Media Frenzy

34:02 Settlement and Aftermath

38:39 The Glazers' Takeover

41:35 Reflecting on Missed Opportunities

49:45 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

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