Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.

This week, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into the harrowing tale of 'The Death Match,' a match played under Nazi occupation in Ukraine.

They explore the brutal conditions faced by Ukrainian footballers, the formation of a remarkable team, and the resonances with modern-day conflicts. In Part One, learn how football resurfaced amidst atrocities, with bakery manager Yosyp Kordyk forming a team from former stars. The discussions cover the political intricacies and personal tragedies, setting the stage for the match itself.

Join us for Part Two on Friday, where the details of the game itself and its far-reaching consequences are revealed.

00:00 Introduction to the Yard Brigade

00:26 Welcome to the Podcast

00:53 The Mythologized Football Match

02:44 Escape to Victory and Its Origins

04:16 Introducing Joseph Cordick

05:49 The Nazi Occupation of Kiev

07:37 The Struggles of Mik Trivi

14:21 The Fall of Kiev and Its Aftermath

25:51 Ukrainian Nationalism and Football Under Nazi Occupation

27:34 The Horrors of Nazi Occupation in Kyiv

29:43 Football as a Means of Normalization

30:32 Resistance and Brutality in Kyiv

31:30 Formation of the Start Football Team

33:06 The Struggles and Symbolism of Playing Football

37:16 The First Match and Its Consequences

39:09 The Complexities of Resistance and Collaboration

49:14 The Aftermath and Public Perception

51:07 Conclusion and Teaser for Part Two

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Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast hosted by Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson.

Today we bring you the fascinating story of the El Dorado League in 1940s Colombia. Discover how the government, amid a brutal civil war and the assassination of liberal leader Jorge Eliécer Gaitán, turned to football to pacify an unsettled population. Learn about the league's extraordinary formation, iconic players like Alfredo Di Stefano and Adolfo Pedernera, and the league's ultimate collapse. Join us for an in-depth look at an astonishing chapter in football history and its lasting impact.

00:00 The Role of Football in Political Control

01:43 The Assassination of Jorge Eliécer Gaitán

03:33 The Aftermath and Civil Unrest

14:12 The Rise of the El Dorado League

22:51 The Impact of Global Events on Colombian Football

29:29 Player Transfers and Union Arguments

30:36 Colombian Football's Golden Era Begins

32:30 The Arrival of International Stars

34:59 Challenges and Discontent Among Players

38:32 The Decline of the El Dorado League

50:00 Political Turmoil and Football's Role

54:54 Legacy and Modern Parallels

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Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. After Chelsea's Club World Cup win at the weekend, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by author Nick Purewal, who discusses his book Sanctioned: The Inside Story of the Sale of Chelsea FC about the sanctioning of Roman Abramovich and the sale of Chelsea FC.

Here we give a unique insight into the unprecedented chaos surrounding Chelsea during their 2022 sale, including behind-the-scenes details of Abramovich's involvement in peace talks between Russia and Ukraine, a near-poisoning event, and the tumultuous sale process of the club that led to current owner Todd Boehly buying the club.

00:00 Introduction

04:51 Abramovich's Role and the War's Impact

07:35 The Rapid Downfall and Sanctions

16:04 Abramovich's Involvement in Peace Talks

19:28 The Poisoning Incident

26:10 Skepticism and Vindication

29:52 Legal Confusion and Government Challenges

31:47 Chelsea's Struggles Under Sanctions

35:23 The High-Stakes Sale Process

38:48 The Bidding War Heats Up

44:26 Jim Ratcliffe's Last-Minute Bid

50:10 The Aftermath and Reflections

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Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In a week where we marked our 100th episode, we bring you the quiz between our podcast It Was What It Was against Football Cliches.

Without co-host Rob Draper, It Was What It Was brought in John Brewin alongside producer Pat Moore to join Jonathan Wilson in an epic battle against Football Cliches' Adam Hurrey, Charlie Eccleshare and David Walker.

Three rounds, five questions in each round and a final round of Premier League hunting grounds, in a classic battle for the ages!

If you enjoyed the podcast you can find Football Cliches episodes here: https://podfollow.com/new-football-cliches

Please note: This episode was released by our opponents in February 2025.

Please do review, comment and subscribe to It Was What It Was.

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Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. To mark our 100th episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper revisit one of the game’s true pioneers: Herbert Chapman. Long before his Arsenal legacy, Chapman transformed Huddersfield Town in the 1920s, laying the groundwork for modern football and guiding them to become the first club to win three consecutive top-flight league titles.

A century later, Jonathan and Rob delve into the tactical innovations, strategic thinking, and leadership that defined Chapman’s revolutionary approach. This episode brings Huddersfield’s golden era to life—and shows how Chapman’s influence still echoes through the game today, both on and off the pitch.

00:00 Introduction and Milestone Celebration

01:13 Herbert Chapman's Early Life and Career

03:31 Chapman's Tactical Innovations

11:19 Leeds City and Wartime Contributions

22:07 Post-War Challenges and Huddersfield Opportunity

27:44 Brighton's Replay and the Stuffed Donkey Incident

28:49 The Controversial FA Cup Final

30:33 Chapman's Tactical Innovations

34:00 Huddersfield's Rise to Glory

41:52 The Closest Title Race Ever?

46:32 Chapman's Legacy and Move to Arsenal

48:33 Conclusion and Reflections on Chapman's Impact

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Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.

In the second and final episode of our exploration into Abu Dhabi's takeover of Manchester City, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper uncover the strategic, political, and historical forces behind one of the most transformative moves in modern football.

Incorporating expert commentary from Dr. Chris Davison, author of Abu Dhabi: Oil and Beyond, this episode explores how a state-led investment in a football club became a powerful tool of international diplomacy. We trace the roots of Abu Dhabi’s global ambitions back to the oil boom of the 1970s and '80s, the legacy of Sheikh Zayed’s leadership, and the shifting political landscape following his death in 2004.

We also examine the rise of Sheikh Mansour, the tightening grip of autocracy, and the human rights questions that shadow this high-stakes project. From geopolitics in the Arab world to influence across Africa and the Indian subcontinent.

00:00 Introduction 01:30 The Foundation of UAE and Its Growth

02:57 Sheikh Zayed's Vision and Leadership

05:24 The Role of Women and Modernisation

08:37 The Al Nahyan Family Dynamics

12:47 The Manchester City Takeover

15:39 The Impact and Strategy Behind the Takeover

22:41 The Strategic Importance of Qatar and Abu Dhabi

23:29 Human Rights Concerns in Abu Dhabi

28:52 Worker Rights and Personal Accounts

31:38 The Yemeni War and Foreign Policy

34:59 Manchester City's Aggressive Strategy

36:19 Comparing Strategies: Abu Dhabi vs. Qatar

44:23 The Future of Manchester City

46:29 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

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Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week, hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper explore the complex history behind the Abu Dhabi takeover of Manchester City. The discussion begins with a chilling recount of a 1984 assassination of UAE ambassador Khalifa Ahmad Mubarak, claimed by the Arab Revolutionary Brigades. This incident serves as a critical backdrop for understanding the motivations and geopolitical factors influencing contemporary Middle Eastern involvement in global sports. Jonathan and Rob look into the precarious position of Abu Dhabi, the history of the UAE's formation, and the significant figures like Khaldoon Al Barak and Sheikh Zed, shedding light on why Abu Dhabi has ventured into the world of football ownership and how this has reshaped not just Manchester City but football in general.

Join us on Friday for Part Two.

00:00 Tragic Assassination in Paris

00:54 Introduction to the Podcast

01:03 The Abu Dhabi Takeover of Manchester City

03:21 Comparing Abramovich and Sheik Mansour

04:29 The Shock of the 2008 Takeover

05:09 The Initial Skepticism and Rabino Signing

07:21 The Role of Solomon Al Faim

09:26 The Importance of Kaldoon Al Mubarak

15:41 The Aggressive Approach to Regulation

22:34 Massacre at Saia and Its Impact

24:25 Khaldoon Al Mubarak's Background

27:19 Transformation of Abu Dhabi

32:23 Discovery of Oil and Its Implications

43:19 Formation of the United Arab Emirates

44:50 Challenges from Regional Powers

45:56 Conclusion and Teaser for Part Two

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Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week, Jonathan and Rob look into the tragic and fascinating latter years of Diego Maradona's professional football career during the 1990s.

Jonathan and Rob explore Maradona's struggles with cocaine addiction, legal troubles, and numerous attempts to revive his career amidst a national crisis for Argentina's football team. From his return to his parents' hometown to his controversial time at the 1994 World Cup, follow Maradona's tumultuous journey as he battles to maintain his footballing legacy.

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00:00 Introduction to Argentina's Turbulent Football History

00:33 Diego Maradona's Struggles and Return

01:09 Argentina's National Team Crisis

01:56 Maradona's Controversial Comeback

05:01 Challenges with Argentine Football Culture

10:38 Maradona's Legal and Personal Battles

16:56 Road to the 1994 World Cup

24:41 Maradona's Defense and Consequences

26:16 Public Reaction and Media Coverage

27:30 Argentinian Utopianism and Football

31:12 Maradona's Struggles and Ban

36:38 Attempted Comeback and Managerial Stints

38:16 Final Matches and Retirement

48:22 Legacy and Future Stories

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Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper bring a two-part special focussing on the decline of one of the greatest footballers ever, Diego Maradona.

In part one, our co-hosts talk about Maradona's struggles with drug addiction, failed drug tests, and his eventual 15-month ban from football after a positive cocaine test in 1991. Despite these challenges, Maradona's impact on both the Napoli and Argentina national teams remained significant. Discover the infamous 5-0 defeat of Argentina by Colombia in 1993 and explore why the nation clamoured for Maradona's return to save their 1994 World Cup hopes. The episode provides a comprehensive look at Maradona's turbulent years leading up to his attempts at making a comeback.

Join us on Friday for Part Two.

00:00 Introduction and Context

00:30 The Decline of Diego Maradona

02:01 The Infamous Argentina vs. Colombia Match

04:57 The Fallout and National Disgrace

10:48 Maradona's Cultural Significance

16:04 Maradona's Turbulent Life in Naples

23:51 Maradona's Decline and Struggles with Fitness

25:19 Cocaine Scandal and Legal Troubles

26:53 The Fake Penis Incident and Drug Test

30:53 Maradona's Radical Detox and Support System

34:17 Political Context and Maradona's Popularity

39:52 Return to Football and Move to Sevilla

44:04 Struggles in Sevilla and Final Decline

47:52 Personal Breakdown and Return to Roots

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Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.

With the Club World Cup underway, we wrap up the week with Part Two of our Origin Story series, focusing on Manchester United’s chaotic 2000 Club World Cup campaign in Brazil.

Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper unpack United’s controversial decision to withdraw from the FA Cup, the disorganised nature of the tournament, and the fiery clash between European entitlement and South American intensity.

Plus, we'll hear about the now-legendary story of Roy Keane, Teddy Sheringham, and Nicky Butt hang gliding over Rio - doing their best to stay out of sight of Sir Alex Ferguson!

If you're enjoying It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening!

And don't forget to subscribe to our new show Stick to Cricket, wherever you get your podcasts!

00:00 English Expectations and Brazilian Strength

00:48 Introduction to the Double History Podcast

00:58 The Infamous 2000 Club World Cup

02:01 FIFA's Ambitions and the Club World Cup

03:36 The Controversial Decision: Manchester United's Dilemma

04:27 Global Participation and FIFA's Motivations

07:09 Political Pressures and England's World Cup Bid

22:09 Manchester United's PR Disaster in Brazil

25:18 The Tournament Begins: Double Header in Sao Paulo

26:17 The Shabby Stadium and Initial Matches

27:16 David Beckham's Red Card Incident

28:22 United's Aloof Image and Public Relations Disaster

29:26 Tournament Progress and Group Stage Results

30:07 Vasco's Dominance Over Manchester United

33:11 Gary Neville's Struggles and Team Support

38:37 United's PR Disaster in Rio

40:13 Impact on United's Season and Future Tournaments

42:06 Reflections on the Club World Cup

50:43 Concluding Thoughts and Farewell

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