Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.

It's time for Part Two of Pep vs Jose! As Barcelona and Inter prepare to face off once again in this year’s Champions League semi-final, we look back at the original - a tie that shaped modern football.

Guardiola vs Mourinho. All-out attack vs. tactical defiance. Ideology, rivalry - maybe even good vs. evil?

Fifteen years ago, Pep’s all-conquering Barcelona met Jose's Inter Milan in a Champions League semi-final that didn’t just decide who reached the final - it helped define a footballing era.

Having set the scene in part one, Rob and Jonathan relive the incredible semi-final battles, where Mourinho would ultimately dethrone Guardiola in an incredible second-leg at the Nou Camp - which saw a controversial sending off, late drama and an iconic pitch celebration.

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00:00 Introduction and Setting the Scene

00:45 The Clash of Philosophies: Mourinho vs. Guardiola

01:32 The Tactical Battle Begins

04:32 The Volcano Eruption and Its Impact

10:24 First Leg Highlights and Analysis

13:18 Ibrahimović's Conflict and Mourinho's Mind Games

18:06 The Build-Up to the Second Leg

25:23 The Myth of the Decision

25:41 The Controversial Red Card

26:54 Conspiracy Theories and Psychological Influence

27:52 The Clash of Good vs. Evil

28:34 Tactical Fouling and Pep's Cynical Side

29:59 Marina's Critique of Barcelona's Tactics

31:37 Inter's Defensive Masterclass

34:13 The Struggle Against Possession Football

36:38 The Final Moments and Disallowed Goal

40:03 Marino's Triumphant Celebration

43:16 The Aftermath and Legacy

46:43 The Tactical Evolution in Football

48:58 The Importance of Non-Possession Football

50:28 Conclusion and Reflections

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Welcome to It Was What It Was.

As Barcelona and Inter prepare to face off once again in this year’s Champions League semi-final, we look back at the original - a tie that shaped modern football.

Pep Guardiola vs. José Mourinho. All-out attack vs. tactical defiance. Ideology, rivalry - maybe even good vs. evil?

Fifteen years ago, Pep’s all-conquering Barcelona met Mourinho’s Inter Milan in a Champions League semi-final that didn’t just decide who reached the final - it helped define a footballing era.

In Part One, Rob and Jonathan set the scene: how Mourinho’s Inter came to challenge the most dominant team in the world, the tactics he used, the battles he fought in Italy, and how both sides arrived at this collision point chasing domestic and European glory.

Part Two drops Friday, where Rob and Jonathan break down the epic semi-final itself.

00:00 Barcelona's Football Perfection

01:48 Mourinho vs. Guardiola: A Rivalry Begins

02:47 The Dark Side of Mourinho

03:25 Star Wars Analogies and Football Tactics

06:53 Mourinho's Seven-Point Plan

07:45 Mourinho's Philosophy and Evolution

08:43 Mourinho's Journey to Inter Milan

09:58 Cultural Expectations and Pragmatic Football

12:23 Mourinho's Press Conference Antics

13:44 Mourinho's Linguistic Brilliance

14:49 Mourinho's Training Philosophy

20:04 Key Matches and Tactical Shifts

21:16 Mourinho's First Season at Inter

22:27 Transfer Drama: Stars on the Move

23:51 Barcelona's Dominance and Challenges

26:40 Inter's Journey to the Semifinals

28:57 Mourinho's Tactical Mastery

32:29 Controversies and Confrontations

40:24 The Road to the Semifinals

43:57 Setting the Stage for the Epic Semifinal

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Welcome back to It Was What It Was. It's time for part two of our look at the unexpected role a horse would play in the controversial takeover of Manchester United by the Glazer family.

The episode covers the period of the Glazer acquisition, the impact of their ownership, and the financial manoeuvres that transformed the club.

From Alex Ferguson's complicated relationship with the Glazers to the missed opportunities and recruitment challenges that followed, this episode gives an in-depth look at how Manchester United's fate was sealed - and the horse that might have started it all!

00:00 The Decline of Manchester United: A 20-Year Journey

00:20 Introduction to the Football History Podcast

00:48 The Gibraltar Incident and Its Fallout

01:26 The Glazers' Takeover: A Turning Point

02:24 The Financial Strategy of the Glazers

02:54 The Early Signs of Trouble

03:58 The Glazers' Background and Business Practices

04:48 The Impact of Global Capital on Football

06:24 The Glazers' Vision and Strategy

08:43 The Financial Mechanics of the Takeover

10:41 The Role of Debt in Modern Football

11:54 The Glazers' Financial Maneuvering

14:32 The Aftermath and Long-Term Consequences

16:15 The Glazers' Legacy and Future Implications

18:26 The Financial Crisis and Its Impact on Football

20:57 The Leveraged Buyout Explained

22:52 The Final Stages of the Takeover

30:47 The Glazer Takeover and Initial Success

31:17 Fan Protests and Opposition

34:52 Financial Strain and Missed Opportunities

37:32 The Role of Ed Woodward

43:18 Transfer Market Failures

46:15 Managerial Missteps

53:37 The Glazers' Disconnect and Conclusion

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Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.

In today's episode, hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by journalist David Walsh to explore how the modern fortunes of Manchester United are intertwined with one of the greatest racehorses in history.

This is the extraordinary story of Rock of Gibraltar, the famed racehorse part-owned by Sir Alex Ferguson - and how his connections and relationships with John Magnier, and JP McManus would ultimately impact the Glazers' takeover of Manchester United.

David Walsh shares insider details from his investigative work on the story, making this one of the most fascinating sports sagas of recent times.

Tune in on Friday for part two, and the implications of the Glazers' takeover - and Manchester United's decline.

00:00 The Tale of the Lost Kingdom

00:25 Introduction to the Podcast and Special Guest

00:35 The Story of Rock of Gibraltar

01:25 David Walsh's Insights

02:28 The Connection Between Sir Alex Ferguson and John Magner

07:36 The Rise of Rock of Gibraltar

17:21 The Dispute Over Ownership

19:26 The Financial Implications

29:04 Ownership Dispute and Legal Battle

29:52 High Court Drama and Stakeholder Tensions

30:50 Public Fallout and Media Frenzy

34:02 Settlement and Aftermath

38:39 The Glazers' Takeover

41:35 Reflecting on Missed Opportunities

49:45 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

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Welcome to It Was What It Was for part two of our interview with Brendan Batson, a trailblazer in English football.

Brendon tells Jonathan and Rob about his impactful time at West Bromwich Albion as part of the iconic 'Three Degrees' with Cyrille Regis and Laurie Cunningham.

We discuss his teammates, the tragic losses and his work to combat racism. Brendon also gives us an insight into the personal impact of his former manager Ron Atkinson's notorious comments on live television.

00:00 Introduction and Overview

01:07 Brendan Batson's Early Career and Challenges

03:00 The China Tour Experience

06:20 The Three Degrees Phenomenon

12:32 Impact and Legacy of Black Players

18:37 Knee Injury and Career Transition

20:10 Coaching Courses and Philosophies

24:24 The Evolution of a Coaching Philosophy

24:42 The One-Size-Fits-All Approach

25:50 Player Welfare and Career Transitions

27:59 Tragic Losses and Their Impact

28:38 The Legacy of Laurie Cunningham

32:33 Racism in Football: A Personal Betrayal

38:20 The Complexity of Racism in Football

41:21 The Fight Against Racism: Past and Present

46:17 Concluding Thoughts and Reflections

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Welcome back to It Was What It Was. This week Jonathan and Rob welcome special guest Brendan Batson, a former Arsenal, Cambridge, and West Brom player - who made a significant impact on British social and footballing history.

Part one focuses on Batson's early life in Grenada and Trinidad, his challenges adapting to the British climate in the 1960s, and becoming Arsenal's first black player.

Join us for part two on Friday where Brendan recalls his time at West Brom - and the birth of the famous 'Three Degrees'.

00:00 Introduction and Special Guest Announcement

01:21 Brendan Batson's Early Life and Migration to England

03:18 Adapting to Life in England and Discovering Football

06:34 Challenges and Racism in Early Years

11:48 The Windrush Generation and Social Context

14:48 Racism in Football and the National Front

19:13 Conclusion of Part One

20:00 Scouted by Arsenal: The Beginning of a Football Journey

21:23 Challenges and Triumphs: Early Arsenal Days

22:38 Facing Racism: The Harsh Realities of the 60s and 70s

25:06 Breaking Barriers: Becoming Arsenal's First Black Player

27:44 Struggles with Racism on the Field

31:36 Guidance and Growth: Learning to Cope

34:32 Career Progression: From Arsenal to Cambridge and Beyond

36:33 Ron Atkinson's Influence: A Turning Point

37:41 Conclusion: Reflecting on a Pioneering Career

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Welcome back to It Was What It Was, and part two of our look at Cameroon’s extraordinary journey at the 1990 World Cup.

With their stunning opening victory against defending champions Argentina and making history as the first African team to reach the quarter-finals, Cameroon’s story is one of resilience, brilliance, and pure football magic.

Facing England in a gripping quarter-final showdown against stars like Paul Gascoigne and Gary Lineker, the Indomitable Lions captivated the world in one of the World Cup’s greatest underdog stories.

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00:00 Introduction and Initial Setup

00:19 Chaos and Preparation for the World Cup

01:25 Cameroon's Opening Game Against Argentina

02:45 Diego Maradona's Challenges

04:56 Cameroon's Tactical Adjustments

07:35 FIFA's New Rules and Refereeing Challenges

11:35 Cameroon's Historic Victory Over Argentina

15:04 Advancing Through the Group Stage

20:41 Facing Colombia in the Knockout Stage

23:39 Cliffhanger: Preparing to Face England

24:32 England's Quarter-Final Prospects

25:25 Scouting Cameroon: Underestimations and Realities

27:32 Tunnel Tensions and Early Game Dynamics

29:37 Cameroon's Tactical Surprises

33:46 England's Tactical Adjustments

40:54 Cameroon's Legacy and African Football Challenges

50:07 Concluding Thoughts on Cameroon 1990

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This week on It Was What It Was, Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson look back at one of the most iconic footballing stories of all time: Cameroon’s 1990 World Cup. 

Jonathan and Rob look at the chaotic preparations behind Cameroon's campaign, discussing last-minute squad upheaval, internal conflicts between teammates, and the unexpected recall of a man who would become a legend: Roger Milla.

In the build up to the tournament's opening game against defending champions Argentina, there were turbulent training camps, political interferences, and a complete lack of confidence in the squad. That would all change in the summer to come...

Join us on Friday for Part Two.

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00:00 Pre-Game Nerves and Disorganization

01:02 Introduction to the 1990 Cameroon Team

01:25 Historical Context of African Teams in the World Cup

02:26 The Dramatic Campaign of Cameroon 1990

04:40 The Goalkeeper Dilemma

07:25 African Football's Struggles and Triumphs

14:37 Colonial Impact on African Football

17:44 Cameroon's Chaotic Road to the World Cup

24:09 African Players in European Football

24:58 Cameroon's Discontent in the 1990s

26:02 The Build-Up to the 1990 World Cup

31:43 Roger Milla's Unexpected Return

40:07 Goalkeeper Rivalries and Team Dynamics

43:33 Pre-Match Chaos and Last-Minute Changes

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Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.

Today Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by author James Montague to discuss his new book 'Engulfed' - exploring Saudi Arabia's massive investments in sport.

James gives unique insights on the history of Saudi football, the Vision 2030 project, and how Newcastle United's takeover fits into the larger picture. You'll find out how strategic use of 'soft power' has transformed Saudi Arabia's global image through sport.

The trio examine the rich football culture in Saudi Arabia, the country's evolving social landscape, and the geopolitics influencing these changes.

If you’re enjoying the podcast, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show.

00:00 Introduction

00:17 James Montague's Early Works and Reviews

01:28 Re-release and Sequel: Engulfed

01:59 Saudi Arabia's Emergence in Sports

03:26 Sports Washing and Soft Power

06:47 Historical Context and Saudi Investments

11:10 Mohammad bin Salman's Rise to Power

23:57 The Khashoggi Incident and Its Aftermath

30:13 Saudi Arabia's Football Culture

31:24 Challenges of Covering Saudi Arabia

33:52 Women in Saudi Football

35:15 Jimmy Hill's Influence on Saudi Football

40:33 David Icke's Saudi Adventure

46:10 Vision 2030 and Saudi Football Investments

52:26 Neom's Football Ambitions

57:34 Conclusion and Book Promotion

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Welcome back to It Was What It Was.

It's the final installment of our three-part series exploring the rise and fall of the American Soccer League. Jonathan and Rob dive into internal conflicts within the ASL, the 1929 Wall Street crash, and how its devastating effects exposed the vulnerabilities of the fledgling league.

But all is not lost - with another significant attempt to establish professional soccer in the U.S....

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00:00 Introduction to the Series and Bela Gutmann's Influence

01:13 The Rise of the American Soccer League (ASL)

01:51 Innovations and Controversies in American Soccer

06:23 Financial Growth and International Tensions

08:17 The Playoff System and League Complications

10:53 The Struggles of Smaller Franchises

15:06 The Breakaway and Formation of the Eastern Soccer League

17:31 Chaos and Competition Between Leagues

22:24 The Soccer War and Its Impact

23:57 The Decline of the American Soccer League

25:27 The Wall Street Crash and Its Consequences

27:20 The Struggles of Key Figures and Teams

29:36 The Final Collapse of the ASL

34:25 Analysing the Failure of Soccer in the US

38:08 Comparing US and European Sports Models

45:36 The Future of Soccer in the US

49:17 Conclusion and What's Next

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