It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast

By The Overlap

Welcome to The Overlap's football history podcast, It Was What It Was.

Each week Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper will be talking about the key episodes in football history that have shaped

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The podcast currently has 185 episodes available.

Best of It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast

The most played episodes among Podcast App listeners.

Number 1: Remembering Kevin Keegan: Part Three
Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper conclude their three-part series on Kevin Keegan by tracing his managerial career and the idealism behind his “why not?” philosophy. They cover his post-playing retreat in Marbella, a 1991 roadside attack that sparked unfounded rumours, and his surprise return to rescue near-bankrupt Newcastle in 1992 despite having barely watched football. Keegan’s early chaos, promotion to the Premier League, and “entertainers” era are explored, including the Andy Cole sale and his famous address to angry fans. The episode revisits the 1995–96 title collapse, his exit amid Newcastle’s flotation plans, spells at Fulham and England, a steadier period at Manchester City, and a final, acrimonious Newcastle return under Mike Ashley, ending with reflections on his legacy and farewell tour. 00:00 Dreamers Welcome 01:39 Marbella Escape 02:49 Celebrity Golf Circuit 04:52 M25 Attack Rumors 08:10 Lightbulb Moment 09:34 Sir John Hall Calls 14:02 Return of the King 17:03 Unprepared New Boss 20:29 Great Escape Finale 22:13 Promotion Blueprint 24:53 Entertainers Era 26:32 Newcastle Goldfish Bowl 28:41 Keegan in the City 30:22 Keegan Tea Reception 32:14 Andy Cole Fallout 33:24 Calming The Mob 36:31 Title Charge Collapse 39:03 Shearer And Glory 41:43 Flotation Clash Exit 44:52 Fulham And England Call 47:24 Poisoned Chalice England 52:56 City Comeback Era 55:36 Third Newcastle Breakdown 58:54 Final Farewell Legacy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
September 08, 20261h 2min
Number 2: Ghanaian's Football Golden Age: Part One
Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson discuss how Kwame Nkrumah used football to build Ghana’s national identity and promote Pan-African unity after independence (1957) and becoming a republic (1960). They trace Ghana’s colonial background as the Gold Coast, Nkrumah’s education and political radicalization in London and the US, his leadership of the CPP, and the push to independence amid postwar unrest and cocoa blight riots. Nkrumah backed football as a tool for unity, sponsoring the Nkrumah Gold Cup and founding the African Club Championships (Osagyefo Cup), a precursor to today’s African Champions League. The episode then profiles Ghana star C.K. Gyamfi (“Magic Feet”), his rise through local clubs, a 1951 UK tour, and a breakthrough spell at Fortuna Düsseldorf in 1960 before returning to play for Ghana. 00:00 Nkrumah and Football Nationhood 03:04 Ghana Under Empire 04:53 Nkrumah Abroad and Ideas 06:38 London Debates and Mentors 12:33 Return and Rising Unrest 15:15 CPP and Road to Independence 18:43 Republic and Cult of Leader 20:05 Sport as National Unity 23:11 Pan African Tournaments Begin 25:30 Gold Cup Wins and Wider Wave 26:53 Osagyefo Cup Club Vision 27:13 Osagyefo Cup Origins 27:58 First African Club Final 28:17 Unity Through Football 30:01 Ghana Golden Era Focus 31:07 Meet CK Gyamfi 33:14 Early Life And Clubs 35:00 Mysterious Dwarves Tangent 38:41 Kotoko And UK Tour 41:55 Germany With Fortuna 48:06 Called Back To Ghana 49:31 Part One Wrap Up Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
September 15, 202651min
Number 3: Remembering Kevin Keegan: Part One
*The full three-part series is available on Patreon now* Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper pay tribute to Kevin Keegan, who died in July aged 75, reflecting on his rare charisma, self-awareness, and ability to connect with people, as well as his status as the only British player to win the Ballon d’Or twice. They trace his working-class upbringing in Armthorpe near Doncaster, his family’s mining and Labour roots, and formative influences like Sister Mary Oliver, who encouraged his football. The episode follows Keegan’s unlikely early path—rejected by Doncaster and Coventry, starting at Scunthorpe—through his move to Liverpool under Bill Shankly, where his fitness, motivation, and partnership with John Toshack helped drive major success, alongside growing fame via endorsements and Superstars. They end with Keegan’s decision to leave as Liverpool approach European glory. 00:00 Tribute to Keegan 01:09 Charisma and Kindness 06:19 Roots in Doncaster 09:14 Mining Heritage 15:22 School and Sweetheart 22:21 Rejected Then Spotted 24:28 Scunthorpe Breakthrough 28:18 Move to Liverpool 30:03 Negotiating His Worth 33:34 Late Arrival Debut 35:22 Toshack Partnership 35:47 Sweat Box Fitness 37:10 Telepathy Test Hoax 40:12 Shankly Mind Games 41:46 Celebrity Endorsements 47:26 Superstars Bike Crash 49:48 Trophies And Turning Point 54:44 Shankly Leaves Fallout 57:34 European Peak Exit Plan Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
August 25, 20261h
Number 4: Remembering Kevin Keegan: Part Two
Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue their Kevin Keegan series, following his 1977 move from Liverpool to Hamburg for a far higher salary and the difficult start marked by teammate resentment, managerial upheaval, a humiliating Super Cup loss at Anfield, and an eight-week ban after he struck a defender in a friendly at Lübeck. They chart his turnaround under Branko Zebec as Hamburg win the Bundesliga in 1978–79, Keegan becomes a German celebrity, learns the language, and wins the Ballon d’Or twice, before turning down Juventus and returning to England with an underwhelming Southampton spell and a breakdown with Lawrie McMenemy. The episode also covers Keegan’s burdened England captaincy amid missed World Cups, including a beating by Yugoslav police, threats in Belfast, Euro 1980, and injury-hit World Cup 1982, before his high-profile move to Second Division Newcastle, the lift he gives the city, and his retirement after a sobering FA Cup loss to Liverpool. 00:00 Keegan Cashes In 01:06 Hamburg Move Explained 01:39 The Bubble Perm Era 03:40 Frosty Dressing Room 06:36 Lübeck Punch Up 09:46 Backlash and Doubts 10:58 Turning Point Return 12:01 Zebec Sparks Revival 14:03 Pop Star in Germany 17:20 Ballon d'Or Debate 21:12 European Cup Heartbreak 23:14 Shock Southampton Switch 25:07 Saints Reality Check 27:22 Keegan Takes Criticism Personally 28:27 England Captain Burden 30:38 Poland Wembley Heartbreak 31:47 Belgrade Police Beating 34:20 Euro 1980 Chaos 35:38 Thatcher Photo Fallout 36:51 IRA Threats Belfast 40:28 World Cup 1982 Injury 43:50 Newcastle Homecoming Move 46:52 Robson Drops Keegan 49:31 Keegan Lifts Newcastle 55:12 Lawrenson Moment Retirement 55:54 Helicopter Farewell Wrap Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
September 01, 202659min
Number 5: Franco Baresi Tribute: Jamie Carragher on Milan's Maestro
*You can listen to the full episode on our Patreon* Rob Draper hosts a bonus edition of It Was What It Was with Jamie Carragher stepping in to pay tribute to the late great Franco Baresi . Carragher explains why Baresi’s name is passed down through generations, calls him the greatest defender he’s ever seen, and hails Sacchi’s AC Milan as the greatest team until Guardiola’s Barcelona, with Baresi and Maldini central to a back four that revolutionised modern football through pressing, a high line and the shift away from the sweeper system. They discuss Baresi’s unique blend of sweeper elegance and aggressive defending in a back four, his extraordinary return from a knee injury for the 1994 World Cup final against Romario, and how his football brain overcame a lack of height. Carragher also shares meeting Baresi at a Milan derby and showing his signed Baresi shirts. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
August 06, 202619min