Iyun Podcast

In his role as founding director of the Haredi Institute of Public Affairs (HIPA), Eli Paley is well positioned to evaluate the chareidi relationship to Israeli society.

As Iyun founder Rabbi Yehoshua Pfeffer has written, the most vital factor in the entire chareidi conscription conundrum may just be whether, or to what degree, chareidim see themselves as “Israeli.” 

In this wide-ranging conversation about chareidi identity, we tackle these questions and aim to decipher the trends at play in current society.

One of the under-appreciated concerns - sometimes articulated, often unconscious - held by Chareidim with respect to army service, is the concept of “chain of command.” For a young man whose guiding force in life is G-d, the Torah and rabbinnic authority, submission to faceless officers high up the IDF’s ladder can seem sacrilegious.

This is compounded when considering possible halachic matters of life and death: who is authorizing actions that place soldiers’, and others’, lives at risk? Are these decisions guided by Torah principles in any sense?

Rabbi Dr. Shlomo Brody, founder of Ematai, and author of the recently-released instant-classic Ethics of our Fighters, joins us to explore these vexing issues.

“Daas Torah.” These two words are among the most loaded in modern hashkafic - and political - discourse. But what, in fact, does it mean, and how might it apply to the current crisis over chareidi conscription, whatever one’s view of the matter?

 It would be presumptuous to attempt to treat the topic of Daas Torah comprehensively on one episode of a conversational podcast. One is referred to Lawrence Kaplan’s classic article on the matter, and many other sources, for this more holistic treatment.

Instead, we evaluate how this contention is marshaled within the current discourse around Chareidim and army service. Rabbinic opposition often is cited as the most substantial argument against participation. This impulse is deeply embedded in the charedi psyche, and one can argue that this is with good reason: after all, on matters of legitimate communal guidance, who is more qualified to issue directives that will preserve societal commitments and observance?

On the other hand, in today’s landscape, many people seek more transparency and wish to debate the issues on their merits, without recoursing to an “argument from authority.” Furthermore, students of even recent history wonder when this issue became so monolithic, and extreme.

This fascinating article explores charedii military participation during the War of Independence. Telz Rosh Yeshiva Rav Elya Meir Bloch attended a communal Yom Ha’atmaut celebration in Cleveland in 1954.

And consider these statements, cited in a Tzarich Iyun article by Iyun founder Rabbi Yehoshua Pfeffer, made decades ago by the greatest sages of the previous generation:

Rav Elazar Shach (1980 letter on behalf of Vaad Hayeshivos): “The right given to yeshiva students of deferring their enlistment into the army, is contingent on his study being his sole occupation. He must not be engaged in any material pursuits, whether during yeshiva hours or outside of them.”

Rav Yechezkel Abramski: “Anyone who “abuses this right, is considered a rodef (a “pursuer”) of those yeshiva students who study Torah diligently.” And he instructed Roshei Yeshiva “to conduct a strict vetting of students and remove from their ranks any student whose Torah is not his sole occupation.”

The Steipler (in Orchos Rabbeinu): “Those who are registered in yeshiva, allowing them exemption from the army even as they engage in gainful employment, are absolute rodfim.” To be sure, none of these quotes imply a pro-army stance for full-time yeshiva students; quite the opposite.

Still, they do reflect a willingness - even responsibility - to reserve this exemption for those most deserving. (And of course, while many opponents would still decry such privilege for full-time learners, a stance that demands army service for all non-learners would be welcomed in our moment by most Israelis, and reflect a far more liberal position than currently espoused.)

So…in a society that seems to have grown only more traditional, why has the chareidi community grown more resolute and isolated? Why has the Daas Torah changed? Or is all not as it appears?

We will attempt to unravel some of these questions on this episode.

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Link to Outro reference: https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/T/bo3636037.html

On May 26th, 2024, the Iyun Institute co-presented a special symposium with The Israel Law and Liberty Forum, titled "Chareidim, the Draft & the Law: Where Do We Go Now?" The panel, moderated by ILLF Executive Director Mrs. Aylana Meisel-Diament, also featured Iyun's own Rabbi Yehoshua Pfeffer, as well as Prof. Ron Shapira (Bar Ilan University) and Prof. Barak Medina (Hebrew University).

As a part of our ongoing series on Chareidim and the Army, we present this symposium, lightly edited, for your enjoyment in podcast form.

Rabbi Eliyahu Chait, the youngest child of famed rabbi, author and singer-songwriter Rabbi Baruch Chait, is making a mark of his own. An IDF alumnus of Netzach, R' Eliyahu recognized a need for a post-army framework servicing young men from chareidi backgrounds with serious Torah learning and options for "re-entry" into civilian life. Kochot, his nascent organization, is offering authentic Torah-based experiences to those who have sacrificed for the People of Israel, as they chart a course for the rest of their lives.

KOCHOT'S WEBSITE: https://lp.we-be.co.il/kochot/

KOCHOT on YouTube: https://youtu.be/gzT_Uq775Y4?si=_cilGPsZzDsoj8b6

Struggling after service? Help us empower Orthodox veterans. Many young Orthodox men returning from the IDF find themselves grappling with their faith and unsure of their path forward. KOCHOT, a Jerusalem-based program, is there for them. We provide these veterans with the support they need to rebuild their connection to Judaism and navigate life after the military. Through a strong spiritual foundation and practical guidance, KOCHOT helps them find meaning and purpose in their civilian lives. Your donation can make a difference. Help us empower these brave veterans as they transition to the next chapter.

Donate today! https://checkout.square.site/merchant/ML7PCN6QEN3QX/checkout/FPRO5FLJF6A7F2MYAEVE76K7?src=webqr

On this episode, two wonderful, "regular" yungermen - each a talmid chochom of stature who has thought and written considerably about this subject - join us for an "Oxford-Style Debate" (sans the audience).

Today's proposition: "The time has arrived for many more chareidim to begin to draft to the army."

R' Chaim Goldberg is an educator, clinical psychologist and author.

Jewish Press Article: https://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/opinions/the-idf-a-torah-true-calling/2024/04/12/

Substack ("View From Jerusalem"): https://chaimgoldberg.substack.com/

Rav Aharon Lichtenstein on the Ideology of Hesder: https://traditiononline.org/the-ideology-of-hesder/

R' Mordechai (Mordy) Twersky is an educator and scholar in Har Nof, Jerusalem, Israel.

Brief monograph on Chareidi opposition to army service: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xYDEKI7DjfXBzhNR_QXz8KomWURliPkqeg4lqJgc85E/edit?usp=sharing

Rabbi Aviad Goldwicht is a business professional and Torah teacher who also serves as a rabbinic chaplain in the Israel Defense Forces. Since October 7th he has been servicing soldiers and engaging in extremely taxing and holy work.

Rabbi Karmi Gross, son of legendary Miami day school founder Rabbi Alexander (Sender) Gross, is a pioneering educator and Jewish leader. A founding rebbe at Yeshivat Maarava, then a principal at day schools in Vancouver, Detroit, and Los Angeles, he finally returned to Israel to found the first Chareidi Hesder yeshiva: Derech Chaim.

On Episode 5 of The Iyun Podcast - and Pt. 4 of our mini-series on Chareidim and Army Service - we speak with Rabbi Gross about his background, and this groundbreaking project.

Yeshiva Derech Chaim: https://www.derechaim.com/en/our-staff/

Chareidim & the Army (Pt. 3): What is Nachal Chareidi/Netzach?

In Episode 4 of the Iyun Podcast - and Pt. 3 of our mini-series on Chareidim and Army Service - we begin exploring various frameworks that currently exist to absorb those chareidim seeking to draft into military service. We begin with what is known as Nachal Chareidi, or Netzach Yehuda (now Netzach). These two are often conflated, although actually they are related but not identical institutions.

We speak with CEO Yossi Levi about these programs, how they are actually constructed, how they differ from other IDF units, and the future of this enterprise.

Learn more about Nachal Chareidi and Netzach at https://nahalharedi.org/

In Episode 3 of the Iyun Podcast - and Pt. 2 of our mini-series on Chareidim and Army Service - we interrogate the "moral claim" leveled by Israeli society, broadly writ, against those Jewish brothers who elect not to serve in the IDF. With Moshe's rhetorical repudiation of, "Shall your brothers go to war and you will stay back?" (Bamidbar 32:6) as a backdrop, we evaluate whether this intuitive, viscerally powerful contention is dispositive on this vital topic.

Rabbi Yehoshua Pfeffer has written extensively about this issue, and is joined by Mrs. Ilana Cowland, a noted parent educator and speaker, with "feet" planted firmly in multiple communal "camps."

IMPORTANT LINKS:

An Open Letter to our Haredi Sisters (Hebrew):

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfT7lDYfGJTKmTysGESMB6-Y-iHHxTU4FmSjFSprLkdzBzyYQ/viewform

Ilana Cowland's recent Times of Israel column on the current intra-chareidi divide:

https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/kornreich-vs-dunner-a-haredi-womans-opinion/?_gl=1*1nv2abx*_ga*MTAyNjk0MDk4OC4xNjk5OTkxMjAx*_ga_RJR2XWQR34*MTcxMjIzNzExMi4xMzI1LjEuMTcxMjIzOTM0NS4wLjAuMA

"Now It’s Brotherhood’s Turn," by R' Yehoshua Pfeffer

https://iyun.org.il/en/sedersheni/now-its-brotherhoods-turn/