The Gray Area with Sean Illing

John McWhorter, the anti-antiracist

Listen Later

Sean Illing talks with John McWhorter, linguist, New York Times columnist, and author of Woke Racism: How a New Religion Has Betrayed Black America. They talk about the effects of modern antiracism, why McWhorter compares it to a religion, and the societal implications of the way we talk — and don't talk — about racism.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: John McWhorter (@JohnHMcWhorter), author

References: 

  • Woke Racism: How a New Religion Has Betrayed Black America by John McWhorter (Portfolio; 2021)
  • How to Be an Antiracist by Ibram X. Kendi (One World; 2019)
  • White Fragility: Why It’s So Hard for White People to Talk About Racism by Robin DiAngelo (Beacon; 2020)
  • “What Hope?” by John McWhorter (New Republic; Aug. 10, 2010), a review of Race, Wrongs, and Remedies by Amy Wax (Rowman & Littlefield; 2009)
  • “The Case for Reparations” by Ta-Nehisi Coates (The Atlantic; June 2014)
  • The Debt: What America Owes to Blacks by Randall Robinson (Plume; 2001)
  • “Alison Roman and Chrissy Teigen’s feud is about more than selling out” by Alex Abad-Santos (Vox; May 11, 2020)
  • “Professor Not Teaching After Blackface ‘Othello’ Showing" by Colleen Flaherty (Inside Higher Ed; Oct. 11)
  • “The Middle-Aged Sadness Behind the Cancel Culture Panic” by Michelle Goldberg (New York Times; Sept. 20)


    Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

    Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

    Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

    This episode was made by: 

    • Producer: Erikk Geannikis
    • Editor: Amy Drozdowska
    • Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
    • Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall
    • Vox Audio Fellow: Victoria Dominguez

      Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

      ...more
      View all episodesView all episodes
      Download on the App Store
      The Gray Area with Sean IllingBy Vox
      • 4.5
      • 4.5
      • 4.5
      • 4.5
      • 4.5

      4.5

      10,511 ratings

      More shows like The Gray Area with Sean Illing

      View all
      On the Media by WNYC Studios

      On the Media

      9,163 Listeners

      Fresh Air by NPR

      Fresh Air

      38,189 Listeners

      The Political Scene | The New Yorker by WNYC Studios and The New Yorker

      The Political Scene | The New Yorker

      3,954 Listeners

      Gastropod by Cynthia Graber and Nicola Twilley

      Gastropod

      3,618 Listeners

      Switched on Pop by Vulture

      Switched on Pop

      2,637 Listeners

      Decoder with Nilay Patel by The Verge

      Decoder with Nilay Patel

      3,144 Listeners

      Explain It to Me by Vox

      Explain It to Me

      7,836 Listeners

      The New Yorker Radio Hour by WNYC Studios and The New Yorker

      The New Yorker Radio Hour

      6,670 Listeners

      Pivot by New York Magazine

      Pivot

      9,240 Listeners

      Channels with Peter Kafka by Vox Media Podcast Network

      Channels with Peter Kafka

      552 Listeners

      The Daily by The New York Times

      The Daily

      111,917 Listeners

      Good One: A Podcast About Jokes by Vulture

      Good One: A Podcast About Jokes

      1,457 Listeners

      Radio Atlantic by The Atlantic

      Radio Atlantic

      2,321 Listeners

      Today, Explained by Vox

      Today, Explained

      10,141 Listeners

      The Cut by Vox Media Podcast Network

      The Cut

      1,585 Listeners

      Interesting Times with Ross Douthat by New York Times Opinion

      Interesting Times with Ross Douthat

      6,751 Listeners

      Future Perfect by Vox

      Future Perfect

      584 Listeners

      Throughline by NPR

      Throughline

      16,043 Listeners

      Land of the Giants by Vulture

      Land of the Giants

      2,154 Listeners

      Unlocking Us with Brené Brown by Vox Media Podcast Network

      Unlocking Us with Brené Brown

      23,605 Listeners

      The Prof G Pod with Scott Galloway by Vox Media Podcast Network

      The Prof G Pod with Scott Galloway

      5,414 Listeners

      A Touch More with Sue Bird & Megan Rapinoe by Vox Media Podcast Network

      A Touch More with Sue Bird & Megan Rapinoe

      674 Listeners

      Hard Fork by The New York Times

      Hard Fork

      5,462 Listeners

      Celebrity Memoir Book Club by Vox Media Podcast Network

      Celebrity Memoir Book Club

      6,309 Listeners

      The Ezra Klein Show by New York Times Opinion

      The Ezra Klein Show

      15,335 Listeners

      Unexplainable by Vox

      Unexplainable

      2,215 Listeners

      Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast by Vox Media Podcast Network

      Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast

      5,926 Listeners

      The Interview by The New York Times

      The Interview

      1,471 Listeners

      Not Just Football with Cam Heyward by Cam Heyward

      Not Just Football with Cam Heyward

      140 Listeners

      Networth and Chill with Your Rich BFF by Vivian Tu

      Networth and Chill with Your Rich BFF

      1,713 Listeners

      Served with Andy Roddick by Served with Andy Roddick

      Served with Andy Roddick

      1,024 Listeners

      Prof G Markets by Vox Media Podcast Network

      Prof G Markets

      1,127 Listeners

      The Opinions by The New York Times Opinion

      The Opinions

      459 Listeners