Jordan Williams from the Taxpayers' Union tells Guyon about the group's funding, its connection to the Atlas Network, and why he once joined the Green party.

Watch the video version of the episode here.

Jordan Williams is the head of the Taxpayers' Union. With 200,000 members, it’s one of the largest lobby groups in New Zealand.

For the last decade he’s called out wasteful government spending and been a high profile advocate of free speech and transparency.

Guyon Espiner spoke to Jordan Williams about what the Taxpayers' Union is trying to achieve, where it gets its funding, and where it fits in the international movement advocating right wing economic reform.

What is the Taxpayers' Union?

"Well, it's the same pitch as it was when we launched it just over 10 years ago."

"There are hundreds of groups of special interests out there, generally on the centre left, that argue for more money for their particular pet cause. It might be, you know, the protection of the albino snail or whatever. We’re the ones on the other side, to argue for “Mom-and-Pop" taxpayers, the ones that pay the bill.

Until government spending is being spent well, and you've got no government waste, why should we reach deeper into families’ back pockets to tax more?"

"Post-election, we're taking [staffing numbers] a little bit more cautiously, to see where the new equilibrium is. At some point, I think early last year, during the Three Waters debate, I sort of looked and realised, on our payroll, we had 18 staff. This thing started with me, just part time, and then me and a mate."

"We are now the largest, per capita, taxpayer group in the English-speaking world. We’re not quite the largest per capita in the world. The Finns have that, but they've been going, I think, 100 years, and they actually have software that do your taxes. So, it's a little bit of a different business model. They've got quarter of a million financial members."

Donations and Donors

"It is, particularly post-COVID, grassroots fed. More than 80% of our income in 2022 and 2023 is pretty similar. It’s all small donations, online donations, averaging between about $75, $85, depending on the campaign. That’s the bulk of it."

"Sir Bob [Jones] is very generous, and cumulatively, he would be our largest donor because of the office in Wellington, which he donates [rent-free.]"…

Go to this episode on rnz.co.nz for more details