In this episode, Joel chats with Josh Katz of Badflower about the song that propelled him out of acting like the cool, confident guy to going out on stage as himself for the first time, micro vs. macro dosing, finding your cheerleaders in life, and how emo music is a kind of meditation that helps people make sense of their own anguish and come out the other side. Katz offers a glimpse into what's in store for 2023, as Badflower prepares to release the follow-up to 2021’s sophomore album This Is How the World Ends and set out on the Asking For A Friend Tour with support from Des Rocs and Blood Red Shoes later this month.

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