Welcome to Episode 94 of the Think UDL podcast: Kintsugi, Kelp and Art Therapy with Michele Rattigan and Denise Wolf. Michele Rattigan and Denise Wolf are both Associate Clinical Professors of Art Therapy and Counseling in the Department of Creative Arts Therapies, College of Nursing and Health Professions, at Drexel University in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. In this episode, Michele, Denise and I talk about the myth of perfectionism, teaching interventions to reach a variety of students (with an equally vast set of skills), what to do if you want to include art and creative expression in your classes as to expand your multiple means of expression options but aren’t an artist or an art therapist, how to face skill deficits with a lens of growth and renewal, and we even make a foray into questioning the system of making an art therapist. Yep, we cover a lot of ground, and yes, we all have an arts or art history background, so art interpretation and a certain body part come up (as often happens in art and therapy), so please enjoy this rousing (or should I say arousing) conversation and thank you for listening to the Think UDL podcast!