Law of Code

Anthropic calls some AI distillation illicit. But is distillation illegal?

The answer may depend less on what you do with AI outputs than on how you accessed them.

This episode is a deep dive into how courts might rule. We cover X v. Bright Data, what OpenAI's and Anthropic's terms say about who owns AI outputs, why Anthropic's own fair use arguments could be turned against it and what the labs will likely do next.

Thank you to the presenting sponsor of this episode, Altitude. Visit altitude.xyz/law to learn more about their payments platform.

You'll hear from the three Variant co-authors of one of the sharpest papers on the topic:

• Daniel Barabander, investment partner and chief legal officer at Variant
• Sabina Beleuz, deputy general counsel at Variant
• Elijah Fox, investor at Variant

Read their article here: https://variant.fund/articles/license-distill-law-distillation-anthropic/.

Timestamps:

0:00 What is distillation?

1:52 Intro

3:01 Why distillation matters

5:44 X v. Bright Data

7:50 Access vs. selling

10:40 Copyright preemption

11:25 Why X doesn't own your posts

13:49 From scraping to distillation

16:12 Who owns AI outputs?

19:38 Is all distillation illicit?

24:10 Anthropic's fair use problem

25:05 Bartz v. Anthropic

26:42 Predictions

28:41 Distilling the distillers

29:21 Selling services, not tokens

32:34 Antitrust

37:06 Tech moves exponentially, law sublinearly

40:47 Humans, AI and personhood

45:15 Final thoughts

Thank you as well to the other sponsors of this episode: Cahill Gordon & Reindel, the Solana Policy Institute, the Hyperliquid Policy Center and the Decentralization Research Center.

To get in touch with the Cahill team about how any issues discussed in this episode apply to your situation, email [email protected].

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

Cybercrime costs Americans an estimated $200 billion a year, and AI is supercharging it. The U.S. government's newest response is one of the oldest tools in the Constitution, one Congress hasn't used since the War of 1812.

This episode covers letters of marque and privateers: their role in the American Revolution, how prize courts and bonds kept privateers from becoming pirates, and the White House memo that trends toward implementing a modern version for cyberspace.

Sponsors:

This episode is presented by Altitude, visit altitude.xyz/law to learn more about their global payments platform.

Sponsors also include: The law firm Cahill Gordon & Reindel. Cahill is hosting Confluence 2026, its flagship emerging tech conference, in New York City on September 24, 2026. You can apply to attend here: https://www.cahill.com/confluence2026.

Thank you as well to the Solana Policy Institute and the Hyperliquid Policy Center for supporting the podcast.

Guests:

• Chris Perkins (President of Franklin Crypto at Franklin Templeton, Naval Academy graduate and Marine Corps veteran)
• Ari Redbord (Global Head of Policy at TRM Labs and former federal prosecutor)
• Michael Coates (CISO of the Solana Foundation and previously Twitter's first CISO)
• Camelia Lopez Shoemaker (Holland & Knight, former DOJ)
• Nelson Rosario (Rosario Tech Law)

Timestamps:

(0:00) The $200 billion problem

(2:16) The Model T and the FBI

(4:18) Pig butchering

(7:03) History

(7:50) The high seas and the internet

(8:30) Marque vs. reprisal

(11:35) American Revolution

(14:08) Building a (private) navy

(17:25) The Constitution

(18:40) The Paris Declaration

(20:34) Pirates or privateers?

(22:12) The five-part system

(22:40) Why government can't scale

(23:30) The Fourth Amendment

(25:26) Suspicious Activity Reports

(28:23) Recent memorandum

(30:40) The bond

(32:34) The blockchain

(33:49) Latest from U.S. gov't

(34:56) The attribution problem

(36:30) Who's involved today?

(37:49) The Beacon Network

(39:16) Pre-clearance and due process

(41:10) Reporting cybercrime

(44:26) International law

This should be the internet's best explainer on letters of marque. You don't need to be a lawyer, historian or security expert to follow along.

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

Vaults might be finance's next trillion-dollar opportunity. But what are they? How do they work? What regulation might apply?

You'll hear from the creator of crypto vaults, Andre Cronje (Flying Tulip, Yearn), alongside builders Adrian Cachinero Vasiljevic (Steakhouse Financial) and Charles St. Louis (Ethereum Foundation).

You'll also hear from SEC Commissioner Hester Peirce and top lawyers Lewis Cohen (Cahill), Tuongvy Le (Veda Labs), Rodrigo Seira (Cooley) and Linda Jeng (Aave).

Thank you to the presenting sponsor of this episode, Altitude (altitude.xyz/law), a payments platform for the next generation.

This should be the internet's best podcast on vaults. You don't need to be a lawyer, developer or finance expert to follow along.

Timestamps:

(0:00) Intro

(4:27) What is a vault?

(9:34) History of onchain vaults

(11:55) The first vault, with Andre Cronje

(21:05) The SEC's early interest

(22:30) Investment contracts and Howey

(31:28) Notes and Reves

(37:10) The strategist

(48:54) The curator

(58:30) Investment company?

(1:12:40) Investment adviser?

(1:20:00) Separately managed accounts

(1:30:30) Custody rules

(1:55:43) What's next

Thank you as well to the law firm Cahill Gordon & Reindel for sponsoring this podcast. If you'd like to join Cahill's flagship emerging tech conference, Confluence, you can apply here: https://www.cahill.com/confluence2026.

Thank you as well to the Solana Policy Institute and the Hyperliquid Policy Center for supporting the podcast.

Nothing in this podcast is legal or investment advice.

Commissioner Hester Peirce joins the podcast to discuss Regulation Crypto Assets, as well as secondary market trading, DePIN and vaults.

If you haven't listened to the full Reg Crypto explainer, that's episode 208.

This episode is presented by Altitude. Visit altitude.xyz/law to learn more about their financial operating system.

Timestamps:

0:00 Intro

2:22 Secondary transactions

3:23 Promises and representations

5:05 Essential managerial efforts

8:27 Regulatory arbitrage

10:29 Form TR

16:59 Existing token projects and Form TR

18:27 Compliance costs

21:48 Secondary markets

24:12 DePIN

27:02 Vaults

35:31 Accredited investors

40:25 Tokens and equity

Thank you to the other sponsors of this episode: Cahill Gordon & Reindel, the Solana Policy Institute and the Hyperliquid Policy Center.

On Thursday, September 24, 2026, CahillNXT will host Confluence 2026, its flagship conference, in New York City.

This year's theme, Leading the NXT Frontier, brings together regulators, institutional investors, founders, policymakers and industry leaders to examine digital assets, market structure, regulation and the emerging technologies transforming financial markets.

To register your interest, email [email protected].

Newsletter: Stay updated on emerging tech law for free at lawofcode.fm.

Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? Click here: https://forms.gle/yFFN66e8iy8shQkAA

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Commissioner Peirce's views are her own and do not necessarily represent those of the SEC or her fellow Commissioners. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

The GRANITE Act is a two-and-a-half-page bill designed to stop foreign governments from censoring Americans online.

Preston Byrne, the Managing Partner at Byrne & Storm, has spent over a decade advising tech companies on free speech questions. His work was instrumental in the introduction of the GRANITE Act in the U.S. House of Representatives on August 27, 2026.

Timestamps:

0:00 Intro

2:10 How foreign governments censor Americans

3:34 The origins of sovereign immunity

6:40 197 demands, 4 refusals

8:58 Sovereign immunity in the courts

10:58 The GRANITE Act shield

12:37 The GRANITE Act sword

17:20 Where GRANITE stands in the states, House and Senate

This episode is presented by Altitude. Visit altitude.xyz/law to understand why.

Thank you to the other sponsors of this episode: Cahill Gordon & Reindel, the Solana Policy Institute and the Hyperliquid Policy Center.

Preston's Blog Post: https://prestonbyrne.com/2026/08/28/rulligranite/

GRANITE Act: https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/10174/text?s=1&r=1&hl=granite

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

What is Regulation Crypto Assets? An SEC-led rule proposal that allows projects to raise capital in the U.S. by selling tokens. That's the short answer.

The long answer is this podcast. By the end of this episode, you'll understand why these rules were needed, what they say and what could still be tweaked before they become law.

This episode is presented by Altitude, visit ⁠altitude.xyz/law⁠ to learn more about their financial operating system.

You'll hear from leading lawyers, almost all of whom are cited in the footnotes of the SEC's own proposal:

• Lewis Cohen, partner at Cahill Gordon & Reindel
• Sarah Brennan, general counsel at Delphi Digital
• Gabe Shapiro, co-founder and CEO of MetaLeX
• Rodrigo Seira, partner at Cooley
• Miles Jennings, general counsel at a16z crypto
• Andrew Hinkes, partner at Winston Taylor

Timestamps:

0:00 Intro

4:17 How we got here

6:53 Solving two problems

10:21 Reg A, Reg CF and Reg D

12:10 Five subparts of Reg Crypto

14:12 Who will use these?

18:08 The Startup Exemption

19:35 Rule 103 disclosures

21:03 LBRY and silence

30:14 Secondary markets and Telegram

34:13 The Fundraising Exemption

42:21 Why Reg A and Reg CF failed

48:14 Rule 400: Exit

50:23 Third-party problems

57:34 Under-promising

1:02:08 Essential managerial efforts

1:12:09 The state of crypto

1:15:13 State law questions

1:20:37 What's next?

Thank you to the sponsors of this episode: Cahill Gordon & Reindel, the Solana Policy Institute and the Hyperliquid Policy Center.

To get in touch with the Cahill team about how any issues discussed in this episode apply to your situation, email [email protected].

Newsletter: Stay updated on emerging tech law for free at lawofcode.fm.

Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? Click here: https://forms.gle/yFFN66e8iy8shQkAA.

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

Grant Vingoe is the CEO of the Ontario Securities Commission, Canada's largest securities regulator.

Grant explains Canada's approach to crypto and why he sees a careful, incremental approach as a strength.

Law of Code is presented by Altitude, visit https://altitude.xyz/law to learn why.

Timestamps:

0:00 Intro

0:55 From 30 years in New York to running the OSC

5:49 How the CSA and Canada's provincial regulators fit together

9:01 The crypto contract

12:34 Grant's first exposure to crypto

16:09 The gamification of financial markets and prediction markets

21:22 Making crypto safer for Canadians, from ETFs onward

26:30 Stablecoins

29:52 The Stablecoin Act and federal regulators

35:02 The $30,000 purchase limit

38:18 How industry can better engage regulators

45:02 Canada's brain drain question

50:34 Modernizing the regulation of public companies

54:17 Permissionless finance

1:01:13 Accredited investor rules

Thank you to our other sponsors:

McCarthy Tétrault LLP, with which I am co-hosting a Crypto in Canada event on August 12, 2026 in Toronto: https://luma.com/89qnrnah

Osler, Hoskin & Harcourt LLP: https://www.osler.com/en/expertise/services/digital-assets-and-blockchain/

Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP: https://www.cahill.com/practices/litigation-digital-assets-and-emerging-technology

Solana Policy Institute: https://www.solanapolicyinstitute.org/

Hyperliquid Policy Center: https://hyperliquidpolicy.org/

Sign up for the free Law of Code newsletter at lawofcode.fm.

How does Canada regulate crypto? This podcast answers that in less than 60 minutes.

You'll hear from Grant Vingoe, CEO of the OSC, Eric Richmond, CEO of Coinbase Canada, the Bank of Canada's Anne Butler, McCarthy's Lori Stein, Osler's Matt Burgoyne, Evan Thomas, Dr. Ryan Clements of the ASC and Blair Wiley of Wealthsimple.

Law of Code is presented by Altitude, visit ⁠https://altitude.xyz/law⁠ to learn why.

Timestamps:

0:00 Intro

2:42 Tax

4:53 AML Rules

8:06 Securities

12:00 Investment contracts

16:13 Quadriga's collapse

23:00 The Crypto Contract

34:29 World's first Bitcoin ETF

38:23 Stablecoins

46:47 Where Canada could play offense: DeFi, perps and tokenization

52:53 The speed problem

Nothing in this podcast is legal or investment advice.

Thank you to our other sponsors:

McCarthy Tétrault LLP, with which I am co-hosting a Crypto in Canada event on August 12, 2026 in Toronto: https://luma.com/89qnrnah

Osler, Hoskin & Harcourt LLP: https://www.osler.com/en/expertise/services/digital-assets-and-blockchain/

Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP: ⁠https://www.cahill.com/practices/litigation-digital-assets-and-emerging-technology⁠

Solana Policy Institute: ⁠https://www.solanapolicyinstitute.org/⁠

Hyperliquid Policy Center: ⁠https://hyperliquidpolicy.org/⁠

Sign up for the free Law of Code newsletter at lawofcode.fm.

Kyle Poe is a former BigLaw partner and currently VP of Legal Innovation and Strategy at Legora, a legal AI startup valued at $5.6 billion.

Kyle explains why he sees a generational reordering happening in the legal profession, how firms are best institutionalizing partner knowledge as IP, and where the moat exists for lawyers as AI grows in ubiquity.

Law of Code is presented by Altitude, visit https://altitude.xyz/law to learn why.

Timestamps:

0:00 Intro

0:56 The billable hour and the incentive problem inside firms

2:36 Institutionalizing partner knowledge as firm IP

4:02 Why partner buyouts are accelerating

5:56 Why AI is different from the internet and email

9:31 How top firms are operationalizing AI

12:35 Building innovation teams from the top down

14:37 More lawyers or fewer? The future of demand

19:20 Grinders, minders and finders

22:10 What lawyers should be asking about AI

25:13 Legora's moat

Thank you to our other sponsors:

Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP: https://www.cahill.com/practices/litigation-digital-assets-and-emerging-technology

Solana Policy Institute: https://www.solanapolicyinstitute.org/

Hyperliquid Policy Center: https://hyperliquidpolicy.org/

Sign up for the free Law of Code newsletter at lawofcode.fm.

By the end of this episode, you'll understand how lawyers are actually AI maxxing in 2026, and how you can, too.

Timestamps:

0:00 Intro

1:58 Why it's the best time to be a lawyer

3:03 Hallucinations and cognitive surrender

5:33 Quality over efficiency

8:13 Why AI upends legal work

15:20 60% of contracts filed to EDGAR have mistakes

20:04 How LLMs actually work

25:59 Zero data retention, explained

29:16 The privacy risk beyond training

39:16 How to prompt

47:03 Michael Showalter's AI-native litigation stack

55:27 Spellbook's Compare to Market Feature

1:03:10 Building a regulatory agent

1:09:50 The judgment crisis for junior lawyers

1:12:15 Cooley's AI training method

You'll hear from 10 people at the cutting edge of legal AI:

• Zack Shapiro, Founder and Managing Partner at Rains LLP
• Molly Abraham, General Counsel at Coinbase
• Sujit Raman, Chief Legal Officer at TRM Labs
• Michael Showalter, Founder of Showalter PLLC
• Erich Dylus, attorney, programmer and creator of CamoText
• Aaron Kelly, General Counsel and open source AI expert
• David Wang, Chief Innovation Officer at Cooley
• Scott Stevenson, CEO of Spellbook
• Justin McCallon, CEO of StrongSuit
• Samson Enzer, Partner at Cahill Gordon & Reindel

This episode is presented by Altitude, visit altitude.xyz/law to learn more about their financial operating system.

Newsletter: Stay updated on emerging tech law for free at lawofcode.fm.

Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? Click here: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1QAcE1sQAKZIkma20DbyB5frgKdiK8UB6Fkb6CwaVP1I/edit

Sponsors: Thank you to the Hyperliquid Policy Center and Solana Policy Institute for supporting this podcast.

To get in touch with the Cahill team about how any issues discussed in this episode apply to your situation, email [email protected].

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.