LawNext

If you follow legal tech at all, you would be justified in suspecting that Tom Martin has figured out how to use artificial intelligence to clone himself.

While running LawDroid, his legal tech company, the Vancouver-based Martin also still manages a law practice in California, oversees an annual legal tech awards program, teaches a law school course on generative AI, runs an annual AI conference, hosts a podcast, and recently launched a legal tech consultancy.

In January 2023, less than two months after ChatGPT first launched, Martin's company was one of the first to launch a gen AI assistant specifically for lawyers, called LawDroid Copilot. He has since also launched LawDroid Builder, a no-code platform for creating custom AI agents.

Beyond his work at LawDroid, Martin is an adjunct professor at Suffolk Law School, teaching "Generative AI and the Delivery of Legal Services," and is a co-founder of the American Legal Technology Awards, which will be holding its sixth annual ceremony this October in Boston.

In today's conversation, LawNext host Bob Ambrogi speaks with Martin about his journey from practicing lawyer to legal tech founder, his perspective on how gen AI is transforming the legal profession, and his insights on implementing AI in law firms and legal aid organizations.

This episode of LawNext is generously made possible by our sponsors. We appreciate their support and hope you will check them out.

• Paradigm, home to the practice management platforms PracticePanther, Bill4Time, MerusCase and LollyLaw; the e-payments platform Headnote; and the legal accounting software TrustBooks.

• Briefpoint, eliminating routine discovery response and request drafting tasks so you can focus on drafting what matters (or just make it home for dinner).

• SpeakWrite: Save time with fast, human-powered legal transcription—so you can focus on your practice

If you enjoy listening to LawNext, please leave us a review wherever you listen to podcasts.

In the gold rush of generative AI, it seems that every legal tech vendor wants to be a one-stop shop for legal technology. But after 15 years of developing legal tech, Nik Reed, CEO of Knowable, a legal technology company devoted to helping enterprises bring order and organization to their executed agreements, believes that lawyers should be wary of the hype. Often, the most successful AI solutions are those that focus on solving specific problems exceptionally well rather than attempting to be all things to all lawyers.

On today's LawNext, Reed joins host Bob Ambrogi for a conversation that explores what makes legal AI actually work well in practice. It is a topic he has been thinking about, in one form or another, since he was still a student at Stanford Law School, where he co-founded the legal research startup Ravel with classmate Daniel Lewis in 2012. After LexisNexis acquired Ravel in 2017, Reed moved into strategic product management there, and then joined Knowable in 2019 to lead its product research and development. He became the company's CEO last November, just as the company launched Ask Knowable, its generative AI suite.

In a conversation that explores what makes legal AI actually work in practice, Reed emphasizes the critical importance of pristine data environments, high-quality metadata, and clearly defined use cases. "It's still hard to build really good products, especially for lawyers, and it takes a lot of hard work," Reed says. " And anyone that's telling you that that's not the truth is probably already a product that you shouldn't be using."

But ultimately, he believes, AI has the potential to restore balance to legal practice by handling the rote work lawyers never wanted to do, allowing them to return to what they went to law school for – critical reasoning and solving complex problems.

This episode of LawNext is generously made possible by our sponsors. We appreciate their support and hope you will check them out.

• Paradigm, home to the practice management platforms PracticePanther, Bill4Time, MerusCase and LollyLaw; the e-payments platform Headnote; and the legal accounting software TrustBooks.

• LEX Reception, Never miss a call, with expert answering service for Lawyers.

• Briefpoint, eliminating routine discovery response and request drafting tasks so you can focus on drafting what matters (or just make it home for dinner).

• SpeakWrite: Save time with fast, human-powered legal transcription—so you can focus on your practice

If you enjoy listening to LawNext, please leave us a review wherever you listen to podcasts.

In January, a merciless firestorm swept through the Pacific Palisades and surrounding areas of Los Angeles, becoming the most destructive wildfire in the city's history. Driven by hurricane-force Santa Ana winds and fueled by record-dry conditions, the Palisades Fire destroyed over 6,800 structures, burned nearly 24,000 acres, and dramatically altered the lives of thousands of residents.

Among them were three individuals with deep ties to the legal tech community, each of whom lost their home to the fire. This week on LawNext, we speak with those three individuals:

• Valerie Chan, founder of the legal PR firm Platform PR.

• Rick Merrill, former founder of Gavalytics and current COO of Bridgeline Solutions.

• Adam Camras, co-founder of Lawgical, longtime CEO of the Legal Talk Network, and chief collaboration officer at InfoTrack.

These three legal tech leaders share their harrowing experiences as the flames approached, the devastating aftermath of losing their homes, and their ongoing journey of recovery and rebuilding.

Their stories offer a rare and intimate glimpse into how even those with resources and professional expertise face overwhelming challenges when confronted with natural disaster. From the initial evacuation decisions to battles with insurance companies and uncertain rebuilding timelines, this conversation reveals both the practical realities and profound emotional impact of sudden, catastrophic loss.

We also want to mention a related project, California Fires Legal Resources, in which the legal tech community, spearheaded by Clio, worked together to launch a website devoted to providing legal resources related to the LA fires, both for victims of the fires and legal professionals working on behalf of those victims.

This episode of LawNext is generously made possible by our sponsors. We appreciate their support and hope you will check them out.

• Paradigm, home to the practice management platforms PracticePanther, Bill4Time, MerusCase and LollyLaw; the e-payments platform Headnote; and the legal accounting software TrustBooks.

• LEX Reception, Never miss a call, with expert answering service for Lawyers.

• Briefpoint, eliminating routine discovery response and request drafting tasks so you can focus on drafting what matters (or just make it home for dinner).

• SpeakWrite: Save time with fast, human-powered legal transcription—so you can focus on your practice

If you enjoy listening to LawNext, please leave us a review wherever you listen to podcasts.

As reported yesterday in an exclusive at LawSites blog, two leading international legal transformation organizations, the Digital Legal Exchange (DLEx) and the Liquid Legal Institute (LLI), have joined forces in a strategic union that brings together more than 1,500 members representing more than 140 multinational corporations, organizations, institutions and agencies across more than 20 countries.

On today's LawNext, two of the principles of that union — Mark Cohen, chairman emeritus of DLEx, and Dr. Dierk Schindler, cofounder of LLI — join host Bob Ambrogi to discuss their vision of creating the world's leading think tank for legal transformation. Among the topics they discuss:

• The origins and evolution of both organizations.

• How their complementary approaches — LLI's grassroots community spanning all levels of organizations and DLEx's executive-level focus — will create greater impact together.

• What "legal transformation" means in today's rapidly evolving environment.

• How businesses are driving change in the legal function.

• The importance of mindset in transformation.

• Plans for future collaboration, including joint projects and events.

Listen to gain unique insights into how these organizations aim to shape the future of legal through collective effort and a truly global perspective.

Mark Cohen is the chairman emeritus of DLEx and founder of Legal Mosaic. With nearly 50 years in the legal industry, Mark has been a prosecutor, partner at a major law firm, founder of his own firm, and head of an international aviation parts business. He writes for Forbes and teaches at law and business schools around the world.

Dr. Dierk Schindler is a co-founder of the Liquid Legal Institute. He holds a Ph.D. in European law and has extensive experience in private practice and in-house legal departments. Schindler has been a driving force in legal innovation and process-driven legal operations.

• Liquid Legal Institute website

• Digital Legal Exchange website

• Liquid Legal: Sustaining the Rule of Law – Artificial Intelligence, E-Justice and the Cloud (book publication)

• Upcoming events: Legal Tech Talk 2025 (London, June 26-27, 2025) and LLI's 2025 Summit (Düsseldorf, July 7-8, 2025)

This episode of LawNext is generously made possible by our sponsors. We appreciate their support and hope you will check them out.

• Paradigm, home to the practice management platforms PracticePanther, Bill4Time, MerusCase and LollyLaw; the e-payments platform Headnote; and the legal accounting software TrustBooks.

• LEX Reception, Never miss a call, with expert answering service for Lawyers.

• Briefpoint, eliminating routine discovery response and request drafting tasks so you can focus on drafting what matters (or just make it home for dinner).

• SpeakWrite: Save time with fast, human-powered legal transcription—so you can focus on your practice

If you enjoy listening to LawNext, please leave us a review wherever you listen to podcasts.

"The landscape we all stand on is shifting, and massive amounts of change are upon us," Phil Saunders, the chief executive officer of e-discovery and legal technology giant Relativity, recently wrote in a post on the company's blog. Driving that change are three transformative forces, he wrote: new legal data challenges, advancing generative AI, and legal's journey to the cloud.

On this episode of LawNext, Saunders – who joined Relativity as CEO in 2022 after three decades in the technology sector – joins host Bob Ambrogi to discuss why he believes that both Relativity and the legal industry at large are at a pivotal moment, and to outline his company's vision for navigating these three forces reshaping the legal technology landscape.

Within Saunders' blog post was a notable announcement: Starting in 2028, Relativity will require that all new matters be hosted on its cloud platform, RelativityOne – a significant milestone for a company that built its success on its on-premises Relativity Server product.

The conversation starts there, with what might be considered the last mile in the company's transition to the cloud. Saunders also discusses what attracted him to join Relativity, how the company is approaching the opportunities and challenges presented by generative AI, its work with the Legal Data Intelligence initiative, and his longer-term strategic vision for Relativity.

This episode of LawNext is generously made possible by our sponsors. We appreciate their support and hope you will check them out.

• Paradigm, home to the practice management platforms PracticePanther, Bill4Time, MerusCase and LollyLaw; the e-payments platform Headnote; and the legal accounting software TrustBooks.

• LEX Reception, Never miss a call, with expert answering service for Lawyers.

• Legalweek, March 24-27, New York Hilton Midtown. Register today at legalweekshow.com.

• Briefpoint, eliminating routine discovery response and request drafting tasks so you can focus on drafting what matters (or just make it home for dinner).

If you enjoy listening to LawNext, please leave us a review wherever you listen to podcasts.

Recently, legal technology company SurePoint Technologies acquired the legal practice management company ZenCase in a strategic move aimed at enhancing SurePoint's practice management offerings for mid-sized law firms. In this episode of LawNext, Eric Thurston, who recently marked his two-year anniversary as CEO of SurePoint Technologies, joins host Bob Ambrogi to discuss the acquisition and share his perspective on the mid-market landscape in law.

Originally founded in 1982 as Rippe & Kingston, SurePoint has established itself as a leading provider of financial and practice management software for mid-sized law firms, currently serving nearly 1,000 customers. As Thurston explains in the interview, the acquisition of ZenCase strengthens its front-end capabilities with features tailored specifically for lawyers. The acquisition helps SurePoint "leapfrog innovation by about three years," he says, while addressing customer demands for more lawyer-friendly interfaces.

The conversation also explores SurePoint's earlier acquisition of Leopard Solutions, a business intelligence platform that provides comprehensive data on attorneys and law firms across the country, enabling everything from strategic recruiting to competitor analysis. Thurston explains how they've already integrated Leopard's analytics into ZenCase, allowing lawyers to quickly access valuable industry data.

Looking at the mid-market practice management landscape, Thurston acknowledges that it is currently fragmented, but he believes SurePoint is positioned to become "the Clio of the mid-market." He outlines the company's vision to help firms not just manage their practices but accelerate growth through better technology, data analytics, and business intelligence. With a philosophy that "you're either growing or dying," Thurston shares how he believes SurePoint continues to evolve while helping law firms do the same.

This episode of LawNext is generously made possible by our sponsors. We appreciate their support and hope you will check them out.

• Paradigm, home to the practice management platforms PracticePanther, Bill4Time, MerusCase and LollyLaw; the e-payments platform Headnote; and the legal accounting software TrustBooks.

• LEX Reception, Never miss a call, with expert answering service for Lawyers.

• Legalweek, March 24-27, New York Hilton Midtown. Register today at legalweekshow.com.

• Briefpoint, eliminating routine discovery response and request drafting tasks so you can focus on drafting what matters (or just make it home for dinner).

If you enjoy listening to LawNext, please leave us a review wherever you listen to podcasts.

On this week's show: LawNext takes you to the movies. Well, to a specific movie, anyway – a documentary being made to raise public awareness and understanding of the access to justice crisis in this country.

Today's guests are the film's director, documentary filmmaker Laura Hand, who previously directed The Tent Mender, about homelessness on Skid Row in Los Angeles, and Maya Markovich, a legal innovation leader – and two-time previous guest on this show (here and here) – who is serving as a producer and advisor to the documentary. You may know Markovich as executive director of the Justice Technology Association and for her recent appointment as vice president of the American Arbitration Association's thought leadership and research arm.

The documentary, called Justice: Just A Promise?, has been given unprecedented access to film inside the courthouses of the Los Angeles County court system – the largest court system in the world and one where litigants unable to get a lawyer present enormous challenges to the civil justice system.

As this episode airs, the filmmakers have just launched an Indiegogo crowdfunding campaign to raise the money they need to complete and distribute the film. During today's conversation, you'll hear about that campaign, including Hand's surprising explanation of why she went that route to raise funds.

You will also learn all about the making of the film and how the filmmakers aim to raise awareness about a nationwide crisis that far too few are even aware of, let alone understand.

• Check out their fundraising page here.

This episode of LawNext is generously made possible by our sponsors. We appreciate their support and hope you will check them out.

• Paradigm, home to the practice management platforms PracticePanther, Bill4Time, MerusCase and LollyLaw; the e-payments platform Headnote; and the legal accounting software TrustBooks.

• LEX Reception, Never miss a call, with expert answering service for Lawyers.

• Legalweek, March 24-27, New York Hilton Midtown. Register today at legalweekshow.com.

If you enjoy listening to LawNext, please leave us a review wherever you listen to podcasts.

After building his career as an engineer at Facebook and as a venture capitalist at Lightspeed Venture Partners, Jay Madheswaran and his cofounders spotted an opportunity to deploy cutting-edge AI to transform what they saw as an underserved segment of the legal market, launching Eve, an AI platform purpose-built for plaintiffs' law firms. Eve has quickly gained traction, recently securing a $47 million Series A round led by Andreessen Horowitz, and boasting 800% year-over-year growth.

But what makes Eve's story particularly interesting is its mission to transform traditional plaintiffs' firms into what Madheswaran calls "AI-native law firms" – where technology does not just automate tasks but fundamentally changes how legal services are delivered, in part by encoding firms' unique knowledge and processes into intelligent systems.

In today's episode, Madheswaran joins host Bob Ambrogi to explain his concept of AI-native law firms and describe how Eve's technology can help firms double or triple their caseloads by automating everything from case-intake analysis to document drafting, all while learning to work in each firm's unique voice and style.

He also discusses the challenges of building trust with lawyers around AI and his vision for increasingly specialized legal services in an AI-powered future.

This episode of LawNext is generously made possible by our sponsors. We appreciate their support and hope you will check them out.

• Paradigm, home to the practice management platforms PracticePanther, Bill4Time, MerusCase and LollyLaw; the e-payments platform Headnote; and the legal accounting software TrustBooks.

• Briefpoint, eliminating routine discovery response and request drafting tasks so you can focus on drafting what matters (or just make it home for dinner).

• LEX Reception, Never miss a call, with expert answering service for Lawyers.

• Legalweek, March 24-27, New York Hilton Midtown. Register today at legalweekshow.com.

If you enjoy listening to LawNext, please leave us a review wherever you listen to podcasts.

Earlier this month, a legal tech startup called Fortuna Arbitration launched what it says is the first true AI judge – an automated arbitration system called Arbitrus.ai that the company claims can fully replace human arbitrators in resolving legal disputes. The system promises to cut the cost of arbitration from an average of $100,000 to just $10,000, while delivering consistent, unbiased decisions within 72 hours.

On this week's LawNext, our guests are two of the founders behind this ambitious project. Brian Potts is a partner at Husch Blackwell and an experienced commercial litigator. He is also the inventor of the LegalBoard, a computer keyboard designed for lawyers that was wildly popular when it launched. And Kimo Gandall is the CEO of Fortuna Arbitration and a current third-year Harvard Law student who, along with third co-founder Kenny McLaren, has been working on AI legal prediction systems since well before he went to law school.

They've published their testing of Arbitrus, showing zero hallucinations across 100 test cases. They believe their system will not only make arbitration faster and cheaper, but could eventually evolve into what they call an 'Arbitration State' – a private legal system that could handle a significant portion of disputes that currently clog our courts.

Is this AI judge the future of dispute resolution? Or are there fundamental aspects of legal decision-making that require human judgment? In today's episode, we'll explore these questions and more.

This episode of LawNext is generously made possible by our sponsors. We appreciate their support and hope you will check them out.

• Paradigm, home to the practice management platforms PracticePanther, Bill4Time, MerusCase and LollyLaw; the e-payments platform Headnote; and the legal accounting software TrustBooks.

• Briefpoint, eliminating routine discovery response and request drafting tasks so you can focus on drafting what matters (or just make it home for dinner).

• LEX Reception, Never miss a call, with expert answering service for Lawyers.

• Legalweek, March 24-27, New York Hilton Midtown. Register today at legalweekshow.com.

If you enjoy listening to LawNext, please leave us a review wherever you listen to podcasts.

When former Wall Street lawyer Jonathan Petts joined forces in 2016 with Rohan Pavuluri, then a research assistant in Harvard Law School's Access to Justice Lab, and Mark Hansen, a software engineer, to create Upsolve, they had a simple but powerful vision: make bankruptcy filing as accessible as online tax preparation for Americans crushed by debt.

Today, their nonprofit has helped over 16,000 low-income families discharge more than $700 million in debt through Chapter 7 bankruptcy – all at no cost to users.

In this episode of LawNext, host Bob Ambrogi is joined by Petts, now Upsolve's CEO, and Ben Jackson, an ex-Uber driver who joined Upsolve's founding team after his first year of law school and who is now chief product officer. They share their personal journeys that led them to create Upsolve, from Petts' experience as a big firm lawyer helping pro bono clients get fresh starts to Jackson's own struggles with $60,000 in credit card debt.

They detail how Upsolve works, who it serves, and how they maintain quality while providing free services.They also discuss how they're leveraging AI to expand their impact, their battle against unauthorized practice of law restrictions in a groundbreaking federal lawsuit in New York, and their mission to help Americans rebuild their financial futures.

This episode of LawNext is generously made possible by our sponsors. We appreciate their support and hope you will check them out.

• Paradigm, home to the practice management platforms PracticePanther, Bill4Time, MerusCase and LollyLaw; the e-payments platform Headnote; and the legal accounting software TrustBooks.

• Briefpoint, eliminating routine discovery response and request drafting tasks so you can focus on drafting what matters (or just make it home for dinner).

• LEX Reception, Never miss a call, with expert answering service for Lawyers.

If you enjoy listening to LawNext, please leave us a review wherever you listen to podcasts.