Life with Fire

If you've found yourself wondering "where the heck is the aircraft?" while watching a fire burn near you, this is the episode for you.

Guest Matt Lynde—a helicopter operations specialist for the Forest Service's Regional Office in California—gave us a run-down on why some fires have huge airshows and others have almost none, and even tackled a few common misconceptions about the use of aircraft in fighting wildfires. Among these misconceptions is the idea that aircraft put fires out and that if you don't see aircraft on a fire, that means it's not a high priority for fire managers. As Matt explains in this episode, there's a ton that goes into the decisions on where aircraft goes and when, and noted how challenging it is to prioritize certain fires over others during big fire seasons when resources are limited.

Matt also spoke about his career as a helicopter coordinator, and how he climbed the ranks from being on engines and helitack for the Forest Service early in his career to finding an interest in aerial supervision and coordination later in his career. If you have an interest in working on the aerial side of things within the Forest Service, this is a good episode for you.

This episode of Life with Fire was created in conjunction with Region Five of the Forest Service, for a project that explores some of the common public misconceptions about aerial firefighting. The full Storymap can be found here. 

Timestamps: 

00:00 - Episode Introduction

05:07 - Matt's Introduction And Background 

06:51 - Helicopter Coordinator Position Details

08:38 - Matt's Initial Interest In Aviation 

10:22 - Changes In Air Attack 

12:19 -  Safety Procedures And Risk Factors of Aerial Firefighting

14:45 - Misconceptions About Aircraft Firefighting

17:36 - Benefits Of Helicopter Coordination

18:53 - Fire Retardant Use—Benefits and Limitations

20:14 - How Aircraft Supports Firefighters On The Ground 

23:32 - Other Limitations To Fighting Fire With Aircraft 

25:06 - What Factors Inform Availability of Aerial Support 

28:02 - Lack Of Resources Problem 

30:03 - Outro 

With fire season escalating across the West this week, many people are downloading Watch Duty App for the first time. But what is Watch Duty all about? Why was it created? Where does their information come from? What do agency employees think about it?

We spoke to Watch Duty CEO John Mills about the Watch Duty app as well as fire technology more broadly, and gave him a chance to respond to some listener questions from PIOs, wildland firefighters, community resilience experts and others in the Life with Fire community. His responses are about as no-BS as they come, and he provided an honest assessment of where the app is currently and where he'd like it to be in the near and far-off future. A few things they're adding in the near future include a version of the app just for first responders, which John speaks to in the episode, while in the longer term he's looking forward to exploring how Watch Duty can provide more opportunities for community education about wildfire and wildfire resilience. 

Timestamps: 

07:33 - Interview starts, John explains his background in Silicon Valley

10:10 - The Beginnings Of Watch Duty 

12:12 - John's experiences of the Walbridge Fire 

13:21 - Watch Duty's Functionality 

16:20 - How they find reporters/contributors for Watch Duty 

18:06 - Concerns and Questions from PIOs/PAOs 

21:07 - Gaining Trust And Users 

22:25 - The Future of The App

25:01 - Upcoming Watch Duty Features   

26:48 - Public Education Features 

29:40 - Watch Duty's Role In The Fire Tech Space 

34:48 - John's Thoughts On the Fire Tech Industry 

42:39 - Watch Duty's Main Benefit Is Efficiency 

47:16 - How People Use Watch Duty 

49:50 - The Reason They Don't Allow Comments on Watch Duty

50:49 - Outro 

Welcome to episode four of our Fire in the Southwest Series, supported by the Southwest Fire Science Consortium as well as the Arizona Wildfire Initiative! Today's guest, Zander Evans, is the executive director of the Forest Stewards Guild, which has a mission of promoting ecologically-, economically-, and socially-responsible forestry as a means of sustaining the integrity of forest ecosystems and the human communities dependent upon them. Based in Santa Fe, New Mexico, the Guild's team—including Zander, who has worked there for over 17 years—has seen the first-hand impacts of some of the most destructive wildfires of the last two decades, including the 2022 Calf Canyon/Hermits Peak Fire.

Zander and Amanda spoke about the role of the Forest Stewards Guild in helping provide more capacity for often resource-strapped agencies, as well as how their roles are shifting with the legacy and rise in megafires like the CC/HP Fire. We discussed the Guild's objective to connect work on the ground to policy, while creating a network of land stewards that can learn from each other and share resources, lessons learned and other critical information that can help others dealing with similar issues across the country. 

We covered a lot in this episode, and in classic form, Amanda asked many difficult-to-answer questions that Zander did a great job of tackling—including questions about trauma-informed community engagement, how to continue to get good work done within a legacy of escaped prescribed fires and how communities can more effectively prepare for the "post-fire" piece of the resilience equation. 

Things mentioned in the episode:

Santa Fe Fireshed

GoFundMe for Smokey Bear Hotshots. Many of the crew's members tragically lost their homes in the fires near Ruidoso, NM last week. They were responding to the fire when this happened. Please support if you're able!

Timestamps: 

07:56 - The Guild's Intersection With Wildfire Management

13:38 - Engagement Practices Since Calf Canyon/Hermits Peak

15:38 - Keeping Agency Folks In Same Roles/Locations Would Help Collaborative Efforts

16:44 - Guild Partnership With The Forest Service

19:27 - Hermits Peak Calf Canyon Fire Aftermath And Community Perception of Prescribed Fire

23:57 - Zander's Recommendations For Other Fire Prone Communities

26:12 - Santa Clara Pueblo Takeaways

28:00 - Community Wildfire Protection Plans (CWPPs) Should Include Post Fire Element

30:20 - Preplanning For Post Fire Impacts and Things To Consider In Pre Planning

37:14 - Encouraging People To Go Back Outside After Experiencing Fire Trauma

39:05 - The Santa Fe Fireshed and Using Watershed Concerns to Frame Management Practices

44:24 - Implementation Takes Community Engagement!

Welcome to our third episode of our Fire in the Southwest series! In this episode, we spoke with Jon Martin, who is the Director of Native American Forest and Rangeland Management Programming at the Ecological Restoration Institute at Northern Arizona University. Jon spent three decades working in forestry before retiring, and now uses his extensive interagency background to find pathways that can help tribes achieve their management goals within a Western fire management framework.

This topic is especially prescient right now, as the Wildfire Commission Report was explicit in its recommendations to incorporate more Indigenous knowledge into land management (see: recommendations 12, 15, 16). However, while this directive is a step in the right direction, actually accomplishing it will require overcoming significant workforce and budget constraints at the ground level, especially within tribal communities.

Jon and Amanda spoke about what this integration of different management practices can look like, how to overcome those barriers, the differences between cultural and agency fire, as well as the fundamental question of whether or not the differences between cultural and agency fire can be meaningfully reconciled. Jon also provided a great example of this integration working (the San Carlos Apache Tribe's use of Crisis Strategy/Infrastructure Bill funding). Finally, we wrapped the episode up with a discussion about the nature of federal land agency employment, which all but requires employees to move locations every 3-5 years to move up in their careers. Jon spoke about how the collaborative/shared stewardship pathway that is needed to meaningfully integrate Indigenous management into Western management requires a wholesale commitment to developing interagency relationships, and how this should be a major priority moving forward. 

"It’s not about going out and managing forests, silvicultural prescription or even forest management," Jon said in our conversation. "It’s become all about people management, almost a social science. I think people are starting to realize that. It’s a softer approach but it’s very real.”

This conversation and the rest of our Fire in the Southwest series is supported by the Southwest Fire Science Consortium, as well as the Arizona Wildfire Initiative. We're so grateful for their support!

Time stamps: 

06:23 - Jon's Background and Navajo Upbringing 

09:42 - Northern Arizona University And Its Programs 

11:51 - Native American Forest And Rangeland Management Program 

13:00 - San Carlos Apache Tribe

14:12 - Western Land Management Agencies Working With Tribes 

15:38 - Opportunities And Funding Becoming Available To Bolster Tribal Management

18:45 - Fire History and Research in the Piñon Juniper Ecosystems of the Southwest

20:38 - Indigenous Fire History In Piñon Juniper Ecosystems 

22:41 - Culturally Informed Management In Higher Elevation Forests 

25:56 - Increasing Acknowledgement Of Cultural Burning 

26:33 - Wildland Fire Management And Mitigation Report Directives for Indigenous Burning

28:10 - San Carlos Apache Tribe—Wildfire Crisis Strategy Funding Leading to Tribal Management Success Story

29:34 - Collaborative Efforts Require Long-Term Commitments and Relationship Building

33:50 - Tribal Management Is Inherently Collaborative 

34:20 - Jon's Career Wins 

37:32 - End 

What is it like to watch vegetation type-conversion in real time? How are invasive grasses changing the ecology of the desert and broader Southwest? What's being done to protect and restore Southwest ponderosa pine forests? 

This episode with Tonto National Forest fire ecologist Mary Lata dives into the fire regimes of the Southwest, how they're changing by the year, how invasive grasses are influencing those changes, and particularly how she's beginning to see more fire in the Sonoran Desert, where fire was not historically common. We also spoke about her work within the Four Forest Restoration Project, which aims to restore and protect the significant ponderosa pine forests within the Apache-Sitgreaves, Coconino, Kaibab and Tonto national forests. 

Mary was preparing for a public meeting the day of our conversation and had a few great slides that she showed me during our conversation, so I've uploaded the full video of our conversation to Youtube for folks who would like some more context for the topics we discussed in the podcast. 

This episode and our entire series on Fire in the Southwest was made possible with support from The Southwest Fire Science Consortium  and the Arizona Wildfire Initiative.

Timstamps: 

01:11 - Introduction

05:42 - Mary's Background and Career

10:04 - Four Forest Restoration Initiative

13:05 - Growing up Near Badlands National Park

15:33 - Different Ecosystems and Fire Regimes of the Southwest

17:19 - The Sonoran Desert

19:39 - Witnessing Desert Conversion Over Time

20:14 - Should Human-Caused Ignitions Be Part Of A Fire Regime?

22:05 - Lightning Caused Fires Versus Human Caused Fire

23:52 - Mary's Love of Nebraska

27:01 - Grasslands In The Great Plains

30:36 - Current Restoration Work and Climate Change Impacts on Southwest Fire Regimes

34:11 - What is Assisted Migration and Can It Help The Southwest?

38:04 - The Changing Role Of Disturbance In Grassland Systems

39:24 - Grassification of the Sonoran Desert. 

45:13 - Outro

Welcome to the first part of our six-episode series all about the Southwest, sponsored by the Southwest Fire Science Consortium and the Arizona Wildfire Initiative!

In this episode, which is serving as an introduction to the series, we spoke with Mary Stuever, who is the Cimarron District Forester for New Mexico Forestry Division. Mary has a breadth of experience across disciplines in the fire world, which is well-reflected in our conversation. She's worked in suppression, prevention, fire ecology, community education, post-fire support and public information, among other roles in her long career in fire. As such, we touched on everything from her background in suppression (and subsequent health problems from smoke exposure) to her time providing post-fire community support for the folks in Mora, NM, which was devastated by the 2022 Calf Canyon/Hermits Peak Fire. Mora was not only impacted by the fire itself, but also by subsequent flooding and debris flows that destroyed wells, choked out acequias (critical agricultural waterways) and destroyed untold homes, properties and livelihoods. 

Mary reflected on the situation she found herself in in such a devastating post-fire environment, including what was needed and opportunities she saw for helping other communities prepare for similar situations. She also gave us a quick Southwest Fire Ecology 101 lesson, and was all around a great guest to chat about the huge diversity of wildfire issues facing the Southwest right now. Most of the topics we spoke to will be elaborated on in greater detail in upcoming episodes, so we hope you'll stick around and listen in as we release more episodes of this series over the next six weeks. 

For more information on post-fire impacts in Mora, check out some of the fantastic reporting  Patrick Lohmann of Source NM did both during and after the fire.

For more information about our sponsor for this series, the Southwest Fire Science Consortium, check out their website, which is chock-full of resources related to Southwest fire ecology, research, management and communications. 

You can learn more about the Arizona Wildfire Initiative and their great work in community outreach, science communications and fire education on their website. 

Timestamps: 

08:55 - Role Of Fire In The Landscape

10:10 - Health Issues in Wildland Firefighting

12:13 - Basing Operational Decisions On Smoke Exposure

14:18 - Fire Ecology of the Southwest 101

23:22 - Intersecting Cultures And Fire Management in the Southwest

25:34 - Ecosystem-Specific Challenges and Different Tactics For Different Landscapes

27:51 - Mary's Experience Providing Post-Fire Support In Mora, NM (Following Calf Canyon/Hermits Peak)

36:29 - Post-Fire Recommendations For The Southwest

40:49 - Utilizing Art And Theater For Fire Education

44:03 - Bringing Community Members In As Partners

The long-awaited beaver episode! In this episode, we learn about how beavers are not only champions of wildfire resilience but are also sleeper endurance athletes (climbing mountains to find new watersheds), dedicated anti-capitalists (not giving a **** about the regulatory or material concerns of humans), expert engineers (casually restoring entire watersheds) and pretty handy companions to have in our pursuit of restoring habitat and landscape resilience across the West (and beyond).

Dr. Emily Fairfax and Dr. Sophie Gilbert joined us to talk about everything from nature-based climate solutions to why we should learn to better coexist with beavers to that one time Idaho Fish and Game decided to try parachuting beavers into mountain meadows in Idaho. Rest assured there were also a lot of beaver puns.

Beaver's role in building fire resilience is probably one of the most requested episode topics we've had since starting the podcast in 2020. We got a pretty solid Beavers and Fire 101, but also had the chance to dig in deeper to talk about areas where beavers have made an impact in protecting structures during wildfires, how Sophie's work at Vibrant Planet is helping to prioritize areas where beavers and nature-based interventions (like beaver dam analogs) could make the biggest difference, as well as what both of their visions are for an idyllic beaver-friendly and more fire-resilient world. Also, be sure to stick around to the end of the episode where we speak about the concept of a "Stewardship Economy," or creating a world that is more supportive of community building and stewardship/restoration work that supports both resilience and community—in other words, the things we really need not only in the wildfire space but also in the broader climate/conservation etc spaces. 

Here are links to a few of the things mentioned throughout the episode: 

Beaver, Bison, Horse Book—The Traditional Knowledge and Ecology of the Northern Great Plains

Emily Fairfax's website/research. 

A fantastic stop-motion rendering of how beaver's change the landscape and build fire resilience (created by Emily!)

Vibrant Planet's Land Tender— a multi-faceted planning and monitoring platform for treatment area prioritization, risk mapping and decision making. 

"Leave It To Beavers," Patagonia's Cleanest Line Blog—Amanda's story about Trout Unlimited and Northwest Youth Corps crews building BDA's in the John Day River watershed.  

Today's episode is a special one. We collaborated with the Montana Media Lab—a program of the University of Montana's School of Journalism—to help support their winter "Youth Voices" workshop, which empowers young rural and Indigenous storytellers to learn more about audio storytelling while sharing stories from their communities. This episode features five stories from high school students in Browning and Florence, Montana, all of which are centered around wildfire's presence in their communities.

Story one (timestamp: 6:32) centers on the experiences of volunteer wildland firefighters on the Blackfeet (Niitsitapi) Reservation, as well as on the history of Indigenous burning on Blackfeet Nation ancestral lands. Created by: Trysten Hannon, Callie Wood and Chloe Croff. 

Story two (12:29) is a profile of a student's grandfather, who spoke about his experiences as a Chief Mountain hotshot back in the 70s and 80s. Created by: Amanda Andersen-Marxer and Ariel McFadyean. 

Episode three (16:34) focuses on the experiences of a few modern day members of the Chief Mountain Hotshots. Created by: Sierra Freedenburg and Danaia Moreno. 

Story four (19:49) highlights how wildfires impact wildlife, and provided an opportunity for students to speak with employees at their reservation's fish and wildlife office. Created by: Rihanna ManyWhiteHorses, Shy'lee Kittson and Bailey Gobert. 

Finally, story five (24:11) shows the unexpected impacts of having an incident command post pop up at your high school during a major wildfire in your area. Created by: Lily Crawford, Reese Briney and Shiloh Williams. 

We owe a huge thank you to the students and teachers who worked hard to make this episode possible, as well as to Mary Auld of the Montana Media Lab, who pitched and coordinated this initiative. We'd also like to thank the instructors for this project—Kathleen Shannon, Elinor Smith and JoVonne Wagner. 

This episode was made possible with support from the American Wildfire Experience and Mystery Ranch Backpacks. 

For updates on the American Wildfire Experience's 2024 Digital Storytelling Micro Grants Program, follow them on Instagram at @wildfire.experience and @thesmokeygeneration. 

In this episode, we had a chance to sit down with author John Vaillant, who recently published a new book about the 2016 Fort McMurray fires in Northern Alberta. The book, Fire Weather: A True Story from a Hotter World, is an in-depth exploration of the fires, which released in June 2023. We not only spoke about his reporting process in the aftermath of a catastrophic wildfire, but we also touched on some of the book's major themes and how these were, in many cases, paralleled by the 2023 fire season in Canada. 

We even did some deep diving into the oil and gas industry's role in increasingly catastrophic fire seasons, about climate change and how we keep having unprecedented fire seasons—but our processes and protocols aren't catching up with how extreme conditions and fire behavior have become in some cases. 

We also highly recommend  Fire Weather for those who haven't read it yet. You can pick it up from my favorite local bookstore, Village Books, here. 

Timestamps: 

06:00 - Introduction

08:14 - 2016's Alberta Fire Warning of the Future

09:42 - John's Thoughts on the 2023 Fire Season

12:28 - The Shifting Baseline for Fire Fighting Efforts

16:55 - Weather Conditions Affect How Fire Behaves

19:26 - People's Humanity Makes Evacuation Efforts Possible

23:40 - Humanizing the Evacuation Process

25:01 - Interviewing Evacuees

28:18 - This Evacuation Changed Everyone's Lives Forever

29:34 - The Oil and Gas Industry Connection to Wildfire

31:56 - Humans are a Fire Species

35:32 - Society's Wealth Comes From Fire

37:38 - Gaps in Conversation Surrounding Wildfires

40:11 - We Have to Rethink Our Relationship With Fire

42:39 - John's Lessons Learned

44:12 - Houses Are Made From Petroleum Products

46:49 - Firefighting 90s Style Will Not Help Us

48:40 - No Precedent for Recent Fire Events

51:40 - This Requires a Nuanced Conversation

53:45 - Outro

In this episode, we spoke with Dr. Jessica McCarty—the branch chief for the Biospheric Sciences branch at NASA's Ames Research Center—about her career, her work on fire in boreal and arctic ecosystems (within the context of the Canadian wildfires last summer), her perspectives on fire technology (spoiler: she's a big fan of predictive modeling) and so many other topics that we couldn't possibly list them all here. 

Here's her NASA bio, which explains her background better than we ever possibly could: Dr. McCarty has more than 15 years’ experience in applications of Earth observations and geospatial and data science to accurately quantify wildland and human-caused fire management and emissions, agriculture and food security, climate change impacts and adaptation, and land-cover/land-use change. 

Quick note that this episode was recorded in August 2023, so there are a few things we spoke about that are maybe not exactly timely right now, but are nonetheless relevant to the ongoing conversation about wildfire resilience (for example, the tragedy in Lahaina and the, at that time, still ongoing fire season in Canada).

To learn more about Dr. McCarty's background and research, check out her full NASA bio page. 

07:42 - Wildfire and Different Plant Species

09:05 - What Satellites Can and Cannot Tell Us

10:49 - The Lahaina Tragedy—Response, Fire/Management History on Maui

13:41 - Preparing To Deal With Fire and Building Resilience At Scale

17:06 - Invest In Being Good Neighbors

19:22 - Landscaping Choices as They Relate To Wildfire

20:43 - How We Can Thrive With Fire

22:41 - Why We Need More Prescribed Fire

24:49 - The Energy Grid As A Fire Risk

25:44 - New Emergency Notification System/Emergency Management Perspectives

27:59 - Agency Scientists Are Underutilized

30:12 - Emergency Management/Response and How It Can Save Lives

31:45 - Fire: Everybody's Problem, Everybody's Solution

33:08 - Fire Regimes in Boreal Forests

36:33 - Extreme Fire Year In Canada

38:28 -The Realities of Wildfire Evacuations

40:25 - The Arctic Council

44:43 - Closing