In the second installment of our series Living at Odds, former How To! host Amanda Ripley returns to talk with two public school officials in Tulsa, Oklahoma, who found themselves at loggerheads upon their very first meeting. Deborah and Stacey's difficult working relationship continued until COVID-19 sparked some solidarity—and the two began to learn more about each other. Later, Stacey would find herself defending the colleague she once wanted to oust.

If you're enjoying Living at Odds, check out these How To! episodes: How To Build Trust With Co-Workers and How To Help Teachers Thrive. Also check out Good Conflict for additional resources.

Do you have a problem that needs solving? Send us a note at [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at 646-495-4001 and we might have you on the show. Subscribe for free on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen.

This episode was produced by Rosie Belson and Maura Currie. Our technical director is Merritt Jacob, who composed original music for this series. Our supervising producer is Joel Meyer. Thank you to Sophie Summergrad for her help with this episode.

Special thanks to The Hearthland Foundation, which provided funding for Living at Odds.

Want more How To!? Subscribe to Slate Plus to unlock exclusive bonus episodes. Plus, you'll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts by clicking "Try Free" at the top of the How To! show page. Or, visit slate.com/howtoplus to get access wherever you listen.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices