As the presidential administration turns over, it feels like an important time to revisit the family dynamics that brought about Donald Trump. His niece, Mary Trump, has long lived in the shadow of her family’s name. And as she writes in her memoir, Who Could Ever Love You, the darkness of that shadow affected generations of Trump children long before it took hold of the world. We talk about her grandfather, Fred Trump, the business-minded, manipulative patriarch who molded his son Donald in his own sociopathic image. It’s a vivid family portrait, explaining so much about the systems and ideologies that created a man so reluctant to fail.

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