In this episode, Julie Jarnagin and Jackie Lipinski reflect on all things end-of-year mindset, creative messaging, and the joys of not getting eaten by bears. 

As Jackie and Julie summited the heights of Mt. Rainier with camping gear in tow, marketing inspiration found them where they least expected it. Today, they’re bringing all the fresh insights back to the MPM studio to share with listeners so you can get ahead of your own end-of-year mountains to move.

The Online Sales and Marketing Summit is close to full for 2025. If you haven’t gotten your ticket yet, save your seat (and hotel room!) before they’re sold out.

• If weekly dips are spooking you, step back.
• Step back, but fall forward: the holidays are coming.

• Get away from the desk - inspiration is waiting in new places
• Love your limits - limitations can produce the best creative work

• Home Purchases Are Getting Canceled at a Record Rates
• Move-Now Buyers Are Still Driving Sales. Are You Ready?

In this milestone 400th episode of Market Proof Marketing, Kevin Oakley, Julie Jarnagin, and Beth Russell share some provocative takes on what happens when marketing and sales stop collaborating and start competing for credit. When marketing and sales become a marriage on the rocks, someone has to take the first step toward resolution. Learn what every great therapist knows not to do when this happens. 

From illuminating marriage metaphors to lessons from masterminding pop stars (pssst - we hear there may be a TS12 listening party in Julie's room at Summit?), the crew delves deep into all the ways rethinking your cross-departmental steps can streamline your success.

The Online Sales & Marketing Summit registration is closing soon - if it doesn't sell out first! Late-comers, consider this the official last call to secure your ticket. 

• Beth - Digging deep on internal attribution to give marketing, online sales, and onsite sales each the credit they're due
• Julie - Taking common ideas, but executing on them uncommonly well, is what really moves the needle
• Kevin - Building a waterfall of urgency through marketing and sales collaboration 

• Instagram Adds TikTok Style Repost Feature for Reels
• Market Survey: It's a Whole New Housing Market
• Homebuyer Outlook from Zonda

In this episode, Rachel returns for another round of Office Hours with Kevin. Together, they unpack one of the most misunderstood, overindexed, and emotionally charged concepts in homebuilder marketing: attribution.

Rachel, still relatively new to the industry, brings the curiosity of someone learning in real time, asking the foundational questions many marketers may feel too embarrassed to raise around attribution. Kevin breaks it all down with signature clarity, diving deep into the messy intersection of intent, data privacy, ad platform incentives, and why marketers should stop trying to prove value with “magic wand” numbers.

This episode builds on DYC's Attribution is BS article series by Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, and Julie Jarnagin, using real-world analogies to challenge marketers to think smarter and more holistically about the stories they seek and share around data.

• Watered-down signals are the new normal thanks to privacy rules and technology companies fighting against each other
• Which came first - the coupon or the craving? Why attribution isn't black and white even when it's "accurate"
• How misunderstanding attribution could cost you WAY more than you think

• Who - not what - can create real clarity around attribution
• AI and attribution: over-simulated and overstated, but most keep falling for it
• There is no dashboard for common sense

Listen now. Email your questions for future episodes of Office Hours to [email protected].

It’s a special crossover episode of Market Proof Marketing and Online People Talking - and a pod reunion years in the making. Mike, Jen, and Kevin come together to talk about a topic they’ve each lived in, coached through, and lost sleep over: the CRM.

From common breakdowns to behind-the-scenes fixes, they lay out what’s not working, what builders keep getting wrong, and how Do You Convert is quietly changing the game for teams who are ready to make their CRM actually work.

• If leadership doesn’t log in, the team won’t either
• Online Sales lives in it, so why aren't we designing for them?

• Overbuilt systems collapse when one person leaves
• Bad CRM = bad data = bad decisions = marketing waste

• Partner with DYC on your CRM needs for as low as $595 a month
• Work with the software you already use - Lasso, HubSpot or Salesforce
• Build a CRM your team will actually use, with expert guidance and support

Listen now. Then go fix your CRM.

Don't forget to save your spot for the 2025 Online Sales & Marketing Summit! Registration closes soon.

Subscribe to Market Proof Marketing on Apple or Spotify

Subscribe to Online People Talking on Apple or Spotify

Screenshot your review of the podcast and send it our way—we’ve got something for you.

Julie Jarnagin joins Beth Russell and Jackie Lipinski to talk through burnout, delegation, and the invisible work that keeps marketers stuck. This episode isn’t about perfection; it’s about momentum. And it’s a lifeline for anyone trying to hold it all together with too little time and too few resources.

Summit 2025 is almost here, with over 100 builders already sending attendees, many bringing their entire online sales or marketing teams. Registration closes soon, and the best hotel rooms are going fast.

• Beth – Why one marketer’s 10‑hour flyer problem is more common than you think—and how a new rubric helps teams reset without shame.
• Jackie – Everyone’s in sales now. A builder’s moment of clarity becomes a team‑wide shift in accountability.
• Julie – The Buc‑ee’s effect. What a Texas gas station taught Julie about brand, consistency, and operational brilliance.

• Small Team, Big Impact: A Solo Marketer's Guide to Maximizing Outcomes
• AI‑Generated Content Doesn’t Hurt Google Rankings
• Instagram Content Will Now Be Searchable on Google

Brian Boero, co-founder and CEO of 1000Watt, joins Kevin Oakley for a punchy, high-frequency conversation on how home builders can (and should) learn from the broader real estate world. With decades of insight from both agents and consumers, Brian brings a unique lens to current challenges, and opportunities, for builders navigating 2025’s volatile market.

This episode previews Brian’s upcoming talk at the Online Sales & Marketing Summit, pulling from his research, fieldwork, and no-BS branding instincts to spark fresh perspective on how to break from the herd, build trust with brokers, and tap into what today’s buyers actually want.

• Builders that mimic competitors become the slowest zebra
• A standout product means nothing if no one can tell it’s different

• Gen Z wants a home they can paint and own, not just a good deal
• Agents are tired, anxious, and open to new kinds of partnerships

Listen now to get Brian’s take on off-MLS strategy, how to craft ads that actually move people, and why “get off my lawn” might be the most powerful copy you write this year.

Kevin Oakley and Jackie Lipinski break down what sets successful builders apart in a shaky market (and why AI won’t save you if your strategy’s unclear). From underutilized CRM systems to the danger of deceptive ad automation, this one’s packed with hard truths and practical insight.

Summit is selling out at a rate of 3-4 tickets purchased per day. Don't miss out - save your spot today!

Market Proof Marketing Academy for Spring 2025 is a wrap! But the waitlist for next time is officially live; save your spot and be the first to hear when fall dates are announced.

• Jackie – Spending $4K/mo on CRM with no OSC? Let’s talk
• Kevin – Some advice is expensive (not in a good way)

• Human vs. Machine: Who Should Be Steering Your Paid Ad Campaigns?
• How Outlier Home Builders Build an Edge, Even in a Slow Market
• Google Promotes AI Mode on Homepage Doodle

Even in a flat-lead environment, builders are hitting goals; not with silver bullets but with smart, grounded execution. Clarity outperforms complexity, every time.

In this debut installment of Office Hours with Kevin, Rachel Spaugh (DYC’s Marketing & Events Manager) sits down with Kevin Oakley for a grounded-yet-ambitious conversation about what it really takes to grow as a marketer. Drawing from decades of experience, Kevin breaks down the invisible steps between just starting out and true, practiced expertise.

This episode unpacks the journey through technical skill-building, data fluency, strategic thinking, and leadership, all with a lens toward avoiding the shortcuts that sabotage long-term success. If you're serious about your craft, this one will feel like a reset button.

In This Episode

The four stages of development, from “you don’t know what you don’t know” to conscious competence, including:

• Why fast-tracking your career might land you face-to-face with Lucifer himself
• Tactical ways to stand out and get ahead (hint: daily habits matter)
• Signs you've mastered your craft without realizing it
• When to shut up, when to risk it, and when to stop acting your age and get curious again

The doors are open. The questions cut deep. The answers? Not for the half-hearted. If you’re in the thick of a marketing career at any stage, this episode will leave you smarter, clearer, and maybe even a little more fired up to level up.

Listen now. Bring your questions next time: Office Hours exists to bring you a front-row seat into deeper conversations between a fresh pair of marketing eyes in the homebuilder industry and a seasoned pro serving up career-changing perspectives and playbooks.

No guests. No segments. Just Kevin, a porch mic, and four surf-side stories from Hilton Head to help you reset your marketing instincts.

He covers:

• What happens when you fight the tide (and lose)
• Why your best data might be lying to you
• How to spot a shark before the lifeguard does
• The missed wave sitting in your CRM

This isn’t a how-to. It’s a how-it-feels. And sometimes that’s the episode you need.

Tune in. The ocean doesn’t wait.

Julie Jarnagin joins Beth Russell and Jackie Lipinski to tease out the topic of how to play by the rules and win. Is your team sliding into a panic-fueled (rule)bender? DYC has got you! Julie, Jackie and Beth talk mid-year pivots, market psychology, and incentives missteps, all to help you know when to break the rules vs. when to follow them. Tackling everything from Michelin guides to Groupon flops, this episode is your unofficial halftime huddle.

Note: The team experienced technical difficulties throughout this episode; please excuse any audio issues as we work through new processes and platforms.

Summit speakers are live on the site! Visit www.onlinesalessummit.com to read about our featured keynote speakers.

• Midsummer panic? Stop bending the rules and get back on track.
• Dust off those goals and remember with presale, process is progress.

• Find your Michelin strategy… no sabotage required
• When conventional wisdom and today’s trends are wrong for you

• Redfin: U.S. Home Prices Hit an All-time High
• Meta Advises Page Managers to Post Links in Comments

Listen now and rethink what’s urgent, what’s lasting, and what your audience really needs.