Mommy Jammies

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Mommy Jammies episodes

June 26, 2025 Home Management For The Homeschool Mom with Amy Roberts
Home Management For The Homeschool Mom with Amy Roberts
Sponsored by the NIV Application Bible.
As the author of the brand new book, Home Management for Homeschool Moms – Simplifying the Big Things So You Can Enjoy the Little Things, Amy is well versed in handling the hectic lifestyle associated with being a mom and handling life…
Homeschooling is a messy business! Trying to keep a house clean, organized, and running efficiently while homeschooling can feel like an impossible task. Homeschool moms everywhere are overwhelmed by the stress of putting together a homeschool schedule and a home management routine that works together, but tonight, Amy Roberts of Raising Arrows is here to show you a simple way to curb the chaos and start enjoying the homeschooling journey!
Bio: Amy Roberts of RaisingArrows.net is married to her high school sweetheart, and is blessed to be the homeschooling mother of 9, with another little one due soon. As a conference speaker and author of several homeschooling and homemaking ebooks, including her newest release, Home Management for the Homeschool Mom, it is her deepest desire to encourage moms in the trenches to stay focused on what truly matters, and live a life of abundant blessings in Christ.
Social Media Links:
Facebook – http://www.facebook.com/RaisingArrows
YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/user/AmyRaisingArrows
Pinterest – http://pinterest.com/amyarrows/
Instagram – http://instagram.com/amyraisingarrows
The post Home Management For The Homeschool Mom with Amy Roberts appeared first on Ultimate Homeschool Podcast Network.
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1 hr 5 min
May 13, 2024Overcoming The Fear of Not Being Good Enough with Brook Wayne
Overcoming The Fear Of Not Being Good Enough with Brook Wayne
Mommy Jammies Night – with Brook Wayne!
Homeschooling our youngsters has its ups and downs, especial when the lesson plans don’t pan out, the children aren’t interested, or when we’re distracted and discouraged. On those “down days” when nothing seems to go right, it is easy to start wondering if we really are enough for the job of homeschooling. Brook Wayne is our “Mommy Jammies Night” featured guest and mother of nine who offers her thoughts and gives us hope that, “Yes! You, mom, are enough!”
Brook is co-author with her husband, Israel of: “Pitchin’ a Fit! : Overcoming Angry & Stressed-out Parenting”
Israel and Brook co-host the show – Family Renewal on this podcast network here
Show Notes for Overcoming the fear of not being good enough:
Handout: FearHandout-CopyrightBrookWayne2016
Scriptures:
2 Corinthians 10:12
Philippians 4:6
Deuteronomy 6
We may not feel adequate in this areas:
Academically
Emotionally
Practically
Spiritually
Check out these resources at Family Renewal – Full Time Parenting
Family Renewal – Facebook
Follow Israel Wayne on Twitter – @IsraelWayne
Podcast with Brook and Israel Wayne – Here
Website – Here

The post Overcoming The Fear of Not Being Good Enough with Brook Wayne appeared first on Ultimate Homeschool Podcast Network.
Click the icon below to listen.
1 hr 4 min
March 06, 2024 Following God in All Things
Following God in All with special guest, Felice Gerwitz ~ Episode 53
Welcome to our special Throw Back Thursday edition of Mommy Jammies Night! Once per month we’ll give kudos to a previously unpublished or replay podcast or audio.
This week’s Throw Back Thursday is from creator of Mommy Jammies Night, Felice Gerwitz, Following God in All Things
Have you ever had a plan that didn’t go exactly how you thought it would? Did you want to throw in the towel?
Felice reminds us not to grow discouraged, but to place our faith in the ONE who is in control of all things. His plan is much better!
Get your free download 5 Gems to Remember by Felice Gerwitz

Thanks to our sponsor, Harper Collins Christian, and the Kingdom Girl’s Bible
Girls will discover the power of faith in this beautiful Bible that features women of the Bible. This is the ideal Bible for girls on their journey of faith! This special Bible is specifically crafted to highlight the stories and lessons of the inspiring, famous, and sometimes infamous women of the Bible. With over 400 engaging features, colorful illustrations, and helpful notes, this Bible is perfect for girls ages 8 to 12 as they learn about the strong and faithful women who came before them. Visit the website for more information.
The post Following God in All Things appeared first on Ultimate Homeschool Podcast Network.
Click the icon below to listen.

49 min
February 22, 2024Jesus and Moms / 6 Ways to Show Love to Your Children
Jesus and Moms – 6 Ways to Show Love to Your Children
Subscribe via RSS & Subscribe to the Podcast via iTunes

Show notes: What I’d like to share tonight is a way to embrace the vocation and high calling of motherhood that keeps our eyes on Christ.
First, let’s look at how Jesus taught. This will help us in our daily, minute-by-minute instruction of our children no matter what age they may be. This is also called relationship.
If we look at the life of Christ we see that Jesus was loving. He repeated spiritual truths over and over so that people might understand. He walked among the people healing them, by asking them questions, and by imparting truth through ways they could understand (Mark 4:34 He did not say anything to them without using a parable. But when he was alone with his own disciples, he explained everything.)
Jesus was someone who attracted others. He had a way of pointing to the Father that satisfied the needs of people. He knew how to satisfy their greatest spiritual needs. Even when they just returned for more bread, he knew they had a greater need.
6 Ways to Show Love to Your Children
Here are ways he did just that, and how as Moms we can be encouraged that if we will follow the master Jesus will meet their needs and our own.
Children need to feel safe, loved, and important. Do you have a consistent temperament? Do you meet as well as you are able your children’s basic needs for clothing, shelter, and food? Is your discipline consistent or are your children unsure of what to expect? Can your child confide in your? We are especially admonished not to provoke our children to anger or discouragement (Ephesians 6:4 Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord. Colossians 3:21 Fathers, do not provoke your children, lest they become discouraged.Jesus makes us feel safe, loved, and important in his very life (lived sinlessly), death (for our sins), and resurrection (for our justification) that we might have peace with God the Father, Romans chapter 4.
Children must trust their parents Do you keep your word to your children? Do you keep your word to others so your children witness this? Do you do your best to make sure that trustworthy adults influence your children? Remember when we talked about how Jesus patiently repeated things to his followers (and for our benefit) so we’d understand? This built trust. We can trust him because He did exactly what he said he would do. Read Mark 8,9, and 10. He said he would suffer, die, and rise. He did.
Children need to know their worth Do your children understand that their value as a human and made in the image of God? Do your children see how important they are to you by the time and real attention you give to them? Are you full of distraction? God’s Word tells us children are a heritage (Psalm 127) and fearfully and wonderfully made (Psalm 139), and that the Father would hold nothing back in saving them should they stray, and in fact he didn’t hold back his only son. (Matthew 18 and the parable of the lost sheep)
Children need to see their purpose and calling Do your children see that they’ve been created by God and live in the culture and time we live in “for such a time as this”. Do you? Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Children need chores Constant entertainment is soul-destroying to anyone, especially a child. There is value in work that sparks their creativity and curiosity and helps them see their place in God’s world. Again, Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Wisdom and role models- Children need your guidance and the guidance of trusted adults, especially as they become young adults themselves to help grow discernment. Who do you know that exhibits wisdom that would be a good influence? Do you exhibit wisdom to your children? Proverbs 13:20 tells us, “He that walketh with wise men shall be wise: but a companion of fools shall be destroyed.”
Learn more about Susanna Wesley here.
Thanks to our sponsor, Harper Collins Christian, and the Kingdom Girl’s Bible
Girls will discover the power of faith in this beautiful Bible that features women of the Bible. This is the ideal Bible for girls on their journey of faith! This special Bible is specifically crafted to highlight the stories and lessons of the inspiring, famous, and sometimes infamous women of the Bible. With over 400 engaging features, colorful illustrations, and helpful notes, this Bible is perfect for girls ages 8 to 12 as they learn about the strong and faithful women who came before them. Visit the website for more information.
The post Jesus and Moms / 6 Ways to Show Love to Your Children appeared first on Ultimate Homeschool Podcast Network.
Click the icon below to listen.
29 min
February 06, 2024 Keeping Christ the Center of Your Homeschool – Heidi St. John
Replay: Keeping Christ the Center of Your Homeschool
When was the last time that you were undone by your thirst for God? Staying connected to God and being in the word with our children is so vital for homeschooling and disciplining our children. Heidi shares her heart and passion to encourage families to dig into the Word together and grow closer to God in this podcast, “Keeping Christ in the Center of Your Homeschool”. Grab your bibles and prepare to be encouraged.
Thanks to our sponsor, A Fanthom Presents Film – The Ark and The Darkness – Movie Trailer here: NoahsFlood
Heidi St. John has been married to her husband Jay since 1989. Together they have seven children from toddler to adult and have homeschooled all the way through high school. A favorite conference and radio speaker, Heidi approaches marriage and parenting with humor and grace. Her passion to encourage moms and set them free to be who God has created them to be will bless and encourage you. Connect with Heidi at her blog The Busy Mom, on Facebook, on Twitter, Pinterest, and Instagram.

Enjoy this Podcast on Christ in Your Homeschool?
Check out these podcasts from Vintage Homeschool Moms.
Homeschool Lifestyle

Last Minute DIY Tips

Money Saving Field Trips

All About Teaching

Raising Spiritually Strong Kids

Six Homeschooling Insider Tips

Best Staycations for Kids

Avoid Curriculum Pitfalls

Top 10 Parenting Secrets

45 Family Date Night Ideas
The post Keeping Christ the Center of Your Homeschool – Heidi St. John appeared first on Ultimate Homeschool Podcast Network.
Click the icon below to listen.

47 min
July 25, 2019 Why Every Homeschool Mom Needs a Homeschool BFF
Why Every Homeschool Mom Needs a Homeschool BFF
Every homeschool mom goes through a similar experience. We start with the conviction that we should homeschool our children. Moms get excited with shopping for and choosing curriculum. We spend our summer planning.
Then we begin. And it’s not long before we start to feel like we’re going at this thing alone.
We Question Ourselves
Once the loneliness sets in we start to question our decision to homeschool.
One days when our children’s behavior or lack of interest in their studies sets in, we want to give in and hand it over to someone else. Even if we don’t admit that out loud.
It doesn’t mean we’ve lost faith in our conviction, it just means we really are meant to be in community with one another. We need a friend who gets it.
Reaching out to Friends and Finding a Homeschool BFF
This is where having a homeschool BFF can really make your homeschool experience so much better. She understands your struggles. She can hold you up with you’re feeling down. It’s often that homeschool mom BFF who reminds you of why you’re doing this in the first place. And if she’s a true friend she points you back to Jesus, so you don’t lose your way.
Friends for Life
And these friends aren’t just friends for a season. You never really outgrow them. In this podcast I share a little about Mom School and how that experience introduced me to a circle of friends who are still my friends to this day. Good friends.
The Homeschool Sisterhood
That’s why I’m kinda (okay, a lot) excited about the Homeschool Sisterhood (referral link) with Ana Willis. I wish I’d had this opportunity when I was a brand new homeschooling mom. The opportunity to learn from a veteran homeschool mom who can share how to stay focused would’ve been such a blessing.
Wherever you’re at in your homeschooling journey, check out The Homeschool Sisterhood (referral link) and get yourself plugged in.
PS. Check out …
My podcast interview with Ana Willis, topic: How to Stop the Hustle and Find Your Purpose
Join the Mommy Jammies Podcast Community on Facebook.

Special Thanks to Our Network Sponsor -Overcomer Movie
Life changes overnight for coach John Harrison when his high school basketball team’s state championship dreams are crushed under the weight of unexpected news. When the largest manufacturing plant in town suddenly shuts down and hundreds of families begin moving away, John must come to grips with the challenges facing his family and his team. Urged by the school’s principal to fill-in and coach a sport he doesn’t know or like, John is frustrated and questioning his worth… until he crosses paths with a student struggling with her own journey.

Filled with a powerful mix of faith, a twist of humor, and a ton of heart, the Kendrick Brothers return to theaters with OVERCOMER, their newest feature following FACING THE GIANTS, FIREPROOF, COURAGEOUS, and the #1 box-office hit, WAR ROOM. The inspiring family film stars Alex Kendrick, Priscilla Shirer, Shari Rigby, Cameron Arnett, and introduces Aryn Wright-Thompson.
Opening nationwide on August 23, OVERCOMER dares to leave you filled with hope, inspired to dream, and asks the question: what do you allow to define you?
Click here to learn more!
The post Why Every Homeschool Mom Needs a Homeschool BFF appeared first on Ultimate Homeschool Podcast Network.
Click the icon below to listen.

17 min
July 15, 2019Is a Virtual Assistant Business Right for a Homeschool Mom?
Back to Homeschool Decisions (and a Giveaway!)
It’s that time of year, Back to Homeschool season. Along with an incredible giveaway (see below), many current homeschool moms are looking for a way to make extra income to afford the homeschooling lifestyle. You might be a mom curious about homeschooling and hoping you can find a way to earn extra money while you homeschool.
I’m here to encourage you, that YES! You can homeschool and work from home. And this could be the year you get to celebrate two things: working from home and a back to homeschool giveaway!
Is a Virtual Assistant Business Right for a Homeschool Mom?
When determining if a virtual assistant business is a good work from home opportunity for a homeschool mom, it helps to take a virtual assessment. Ask yourself the following questions to help you make a sound decision.
{Before we get started, are you going to vote for our new intro? Join the Mommy Jammies Podcast Support Group.
A homeschool mom looking for a side hustle will appreciate a back to homeschool giveaway! Check out the $250 Rainbow Resource Gift Card Giveaway at the bottom of the show notes for this post. }
Many homeschooling moms have heard the buzz about working at home. Is it possible to work at home and have a work at home business?
It’s vital to consider that homeschooling is your first commitment. You’ve made the promise to your family.
Ask yourself:
Can I prioritize my homeschool over my business and still bless my family financially?
Is it possible to serve my family and my clients in a way that doesn’t stress me out?
Can you manage a “side hustle” and still homeschool well?
Let’s look at what a virtual assistant is and what’s required.
First, What is a Virtual Assistant?
A virtual assistant is an individual who helps manage portions of a business owner’s business. Normally a freelance worker, you can work your business from anywhere. A homeschooling mom is an ideal fit for this! She’s likely already a working through the three areas you need to master to be successful!
They are …
1. Manage (your VA Business)
Time- Are you able to manage the time necessary to work your business? Can you handle the daily life interruptions? Can you balance homeschooling, working at home, and family life?
Money- Can you handle the ebb and flow the income? Are you able to manage taxes due? Can you make wise spending choices?
Instructions – Are you willing to take the time to follow instructions and learn the needs of a client? Can you balance the client needs with the needs of a homeschooling moms life?
Alone time- Do you have a strategy for handling time alone and make the best use of that time?

2. Market (your VA Business)
Don’t be shy! Are you willing to get yourself out there? This often takes time and that’s a precious commodity for a homeschooling mom. Can you make this work?
What are you good at? Make a list of your skill set. Think about the things you already know and do as a homeschool mom that can translate to a VA business.
Ideal Client, what’s that? Are you able to think about who you already know that you might be able to help with their business. This is likely the homeschooling community.
3. Master (your VA Business)
Learning:
Are you willing to invest your time and resources into what’s necessary to grow your skill set and establish your business properly?
Growing:
Are you willing to establish the processes and systems you need in order to grow your business?
Scaling:
Would you say that you’re willing to learn to manage a team or subcontractors in order to make an independent income?
If you’ve determined, that Yes! I think I can homeschool and have a home business keep reading …
How can you homeschool and have a virtual assistant business and do both well. The 3 skills we’ve covered are your launch pad.
Think of the time commitment.
Homeschooling is often a full time job.
Do you have the support of your spouse and family to add to that responsibility?
Can you use your managed free-time to build a business without building resentment in your children?
Is it possible to stay on top of the legal requirements to homeschool while building a business?
I’m confident that you can, but this is something that you have to consider for yourself. Sit down and talk to your spouse and family. Listen with an open mind to their objects and considerations. Manage everyone’s expectations and you’re sure to have the answer and the confidence you need moving forward.
With the right support, an honest look at your homeschool mama priorities, and a commitment to do things well, you can build a business that will bless your family.
Links Mentioned In This Podcast
How to Make Money as a Social Media Manager
Dave Ramsey Budget Tool
Rainbow Resource Giveaway
A new homeschool year is right around the corner!
Many homeschool moms are busy preparing and finalizing curriculum choices for the upcoming school year. And some homeschoolers are trucking on through the summer months as one school year flows into the next. Whatever camp you are in, you’re bound to need new homeschool curriculum, and winning a gift card to a major online homeschool retailer would surely help you check some things off of your curriculum wish list.
I’m teaming up with some other great homeschool bloggers to bring you a HUGE gift card giveaway to Rainbow Resource Center. We will be blessing TWO homeschool families with a $250 for you to use on curriculum, books, games, puzzles, or whatever educational supplies you might need!

We know homeschooling can put a financial strain on families – whether it’s from living on one-income or buying curriculum for multiple children – the financial aspect of it can be stressful. Our hope is that we can bless a couple of homeschool families (although we wish we could bless many more) so they can buy the curriculum and supplies they need.
To enter for your chance to win, simply use the Rafflecopter form below to enter. Now I know that is quite a few entries for you, but each of these bloggers has generously chipped in their own money to make this giveaway possible, so I hope you will take the time to do all of the entries. And hey, the more entries you do, the better your odds are of winning!
Giveaway Details
Giveaway ends July 24, 2019 at 11:59pm ET. Must be at least 18 years of age. Must be a resident of U.S. or Canada to enter. Selected winners will have 48 hours to respond to email notification to claim their prizes or another winner will be drawn. By entering this giveaway, you agree to be added to the email lists of the participating bloggers (see the Terms & Conditions on the Rafflecopter form for the complete list).

a Rafflecopter giveaway

Special Thanks to Our Network Sponsor -Bridgeway Academy!
Bridgeway Academy was founded in 1989 in response to the need for more freedom in education as well as the protection that accreditation offers for homeschooling families. Since then, more than 30,000 K–12 students, and many charter and brick-and-mortar schools, have made Bridgeway Academy their trusted education partner.
As part of our commitment to personalized homeschooling, we are proud to offer both secular and Christian options for homeschool families, charter schools, state organizations, co-ops, athletic organizations, arts schools, and others who seek flexible education options for their families.
Click here to learn more!
The post Is a Virtual Assistant Business Right for a Homeschool Mom? appeared first on Ultimate Homeschool Podcast Network.
Click the icon below to listen.
23 min
May 16, 2019 That’s Why I’m Here | Interview with Leslie Nunnery
Join us to chat about motherhood – childbirth and all issues with raising families large and small.
That’s Why I’m Here | Interview with Leslie Nunnery
“That’s Why I’m Here.”
Visit Leslie at Teach Them Diligently
As busy moms, we wear many hats– wife, mother, housekeeper, chef, educator, taxi driver, and so much more. The demands on our time are endless. Do you ever lose sight of why you do all that you do? Do you ever find yourself feeling discontent with where God has you right now, or do you ever feel like there is no more of you to give to anyone? Let’s take a very practical and personal look at exactly why we are here. Along the way, I think we’ll see the incredible purpose and peace we all can have when we truly figure that out.
The post That’s Why I’m Here | Interview with Leslie Nunnery appeared first on Ultimate Homeschool Podcast Network.
Click the icon below to listen.

54 min
May 01, 2019Jesus and Moms / 6 Ways to Show Love to Your Children
Jesus and Moms – 6 Ways to Show Love to Your Children
Subscribe via RSS & Subscribe to the Podcast via iTunes

Show notes: What I’d like to share tonight is a way to embrace the vocation and high calling of motherhood that keeps our eyes on Christ.
First, let’s look at how Jesus taught. This will help us in our daily, minute-by-minute instruction of our children no matter what age they may be. This is also called relationship.
If we look at the life of Christ we see that Jesus was loving. He repeated spiritual truths over and over so that people might understand. He walked among the people healing them, by asking them questions, and by imparting truth through ways they could understand (Mark 4:34 He did not say anything to them without using a parable. But when he was alone with his own disciples, he explained everything.)
Jesus was someone who attracted others. He had a way of pointing to the Father that satisfied the needs of people. He knew how to satisfy their greatest spiritual needs. Even when they just returned for more bread, he knew they had a greater need.
6 Ways to Show Love to Your Children
Here are ways he did just that, and how as Moms we can be encouraged that if we will follow the master Jesus will meet their needs and our own.
Children need to feel safe, loved, and important. Do you have a consistent temperament? Do you meet as well as you are able your children’s basic needs for clothing, shelter, and food? Is your discipline consistent or are your children unsure of what to expect? Can your child confide in your? We are especially admonished not to provoke our children to anger or discouragement (Ephesians 6:4 Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord. Colossians 3:21 Fathers, do not provoke your children, lest they become discouraged.Jesus makes us feel safe, loved, and important in his very life (lived sinlessly), death (for our sins), and resurrection (for our justification) that we might have peace with God the Father, Romans chapter 4.
Children must trust their parents Do you keep your word to your children? Do you keep your word to others so your children witness this? Do you do your best to make sure that trustworthy adults influence your children? Remember when we talked about how Jesus patiently repeated things to his followers (and for our benefit) so we’d understand? This built trust. We can trust him because He did exactly what he said he would do. Read Mark 8,9, and 10. He said he would suffer, die, and rise. He did.
Children need to know their worth Do your children understand that their value as a human and made in the image of God? Do your children see how important they are to you by the time and real attention you give to them? Are you full of distraction? God’s Word tells us children are a heritage (Psalm 127) and fearfully and wonderfully made (Psalm 139), and that the Father would hold nothing back in saving them should they stray, and in fact he didn’t hold back his only son. (Matthew 18 and the parable of the lost sheep)
Children need to see their purpose and calling Do your children see that they’ve been created by God and live in the culture and time we live in “for such a time as this”. Do you? Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Children need chores Constant entertainment is soul-destroying to anyone, especially a child. There is value in work that sparks their creativity and curiosity and helps them see their place in God’s world. Again, Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Wisdom and role models- Children need your guidance and the guidance of trusted adults, especially as they become young adults themselves to help grow discernment. Who do you know that exhibits wisdom that would be a good influence? Do you exhibit wisdom to your children? Proverbs 13:20 tells us, “He that walketh with wise men shall be wise: but a companion of fools shall be destroyed.”
Learn more about Susanna Wesley here.

The post Jesus and Moms / 6 Ways to Show Love to Your Children appeared first on Ultimate Homeschool Podcast Network.
Click the icon below to listen.
28 min
April 19, 20193 Tips for the Work at Home Mom | Interview with Mom Jobs Work from Home
3 Tips for the Work at Home Mom | Interview with Mom Jobs Work from Home
Join Gina Glenn for an interview with a fellow VA and owner of MomJobsWorkFromHome.com
Nakisha is my personal assistant and a successful wahm. I thought you’d enjoy hearing from a mom who is successfully working her business.
Nakisha’s Tips for Work at Home Moms
Have a plan and work you plan.
Prioritize your homeschooling and family before your work.
Embrace the freedom that comes with owning your own business and homeschooling.
Use your business and the challenges that come with that to express your creativity.
Understand that online jobs and clients come and go. Go with the flow, knowing you’ll continue to grow.
Nakisha is the Get Stuff Done work at home mom of an only child. She and her husband enjoy traveling, learning, and all things racing.
Her virtual assistance expertise includes:
Social Media Management: Managing your Facebook, Pinterest, Twitter platform. Along with any other social media tasks as needed. Includes: >Weekly updates scheduled on your selected platform This service is perfect for achieving: >A steady stream of posts on your page >Timely responses to comments about your brand >Timely responses to messages sent to your inbox >To increase followers and build your boards up daily Additional tasks: >Editing blogs >Chore threads >General Administrative Tasks (Email, Google docs, data entry, and online research)

MomJobsWorkFromHome.com << Visit and like.

and SavvyVA.rocks
The post 3 Tips for the Work at Home Mom | Interview with Mom Jobs Work from Home appeared first on Ultimate Homeschool Podcast Network.
Click the icon below to listen.
14 min

About Mommy Jammies

From the publisher's feed

Monthly online sessions for moms to talk about the things that really matter; family, faith and more! Share your heart with people who listen and really care! Stay up late, laugh and giggle and meet…