Morbid

A little after 10:00 pm on the evening of May 1, 1990, Pamela Smart returned home from work to find her husband, twenty-four-year-old Gregg Smart, lying dead just beyond the front door of their condominium, a single bullet hole in his head. Detectives from the small town of Derry, NH arrived to find what appeared to be the scene of a robbery; though, very little looked to have been stolen and to investigators the scene felt staged. Two days later, Derry Police Captain Loring Jackson announced that Gregg Smart’s death wasn’t a random attacked, he’d been murdered by someone who knew him. The murder of Gregg Smart, and the trial that followed, shocked the population of New Hampshire, where it remains perhaps the most notorious criminal trial in the state’s history. As the first criminal trial to be televised from beginning to end, the case of Pamela Smart and her teenage lover captivated a national audience, leading to television and feature films, several nonfiction books, and countless television specials in the decades that followed.

Special thank you to the brilliant David White for research assistance

References

Baker, Frank. 1990. "Smart to be jailed until trial." Concord Monitor, August 14: 1.

—. 1990. "Widow charged as accomplice." Concord Monitor, August 2: 14.

Carton, Barbara. 1991. "The Pamela Smart story." Boston Globe, Marcg 21.

1991. NH v. Smart: Opening Statements. Directed by Court TV. Performed by Court TV.

Derry News. 1990. "Family and friends puzzle over murder." Derry News, May 4: 1.

Englade, Ken. 1991. Deadly Lessons. New York, NY: St. Martin's Press.

Gaines, Judith, and Alexander Reid. 1991. "Jurors say tales a key to their decision." Boston Globe, March 23: 1.

Hernandez, Monica. 2023. Accomplice in Smart murder asks for sentence reduction. January 10. Accessed May 1, 2023. https://www.wmur.com/article/smart-murder-vance-lattime-sentence-reduction/42449265.

Hohler, Bob. 1991. "3 guilty in N.H. killing." Boston Globe, January 30: 1.

—. 1991. "Confidant was wired by police." Boston Globe, March 15: 21.

—. 1991. "Smart is found guilty." Boston Globe, March 23: 1.

—. 1991. "Smart pleaded for life, N.H. teen-ager testifies." Boston Globe, March 6: 19.

—. 1991. "Tales of seduction." Boston Globe, March 12: 1.

—. 1990. "Tape offered at Smart hearing." Boston Globe, August 14.

—. 1991. "Witness: Smart asked for tips on reaction." Boston Globe, March 3: 27.

—. 1991. "Youth says blood flowed, tears did not." Boston Globe, March 13: 35.

Kilgannon, Corey. 2023. "Smart, who plotted with a teen lover to kill her husband, loses a parole bid." New York Times, March 30.

Kittredge, Clare. 1991. "A verdict to take to son's grave." Boston Globe, March 23: 1.

—. 1991. "Smart trial garners big TV audience." Boston Globe, March 17: 1.

Richardson, Franci. 1990. "Mrs. Smart absolutely convinced husband surprised thief." Derry News, May 9: 1.

Sawicki, Stephen. 1991. Teach Me to Kill: The Shocking True Story of the Pamela Smart Murder Case. New York, NY: Avon Books.

Schweitzer, Sarah. 2015. "5 years later, shooter to go free: William Flynn was 16 when he was lured into murder by Pamela Smart." Boston Globe, March 13: A1.

State of New Hampshire v. Pamela Smart. 1993. 622 A.2d 1197 (Supreme Court of New Hampshire, February 26).

Wang, Beverley. 2005. "Pamela Smart accomplice released." Concord Monitor, June 15: 10.

West, Nancy. 2016. Breaking Silence: Cecelia Pierce Speaks. October 12. Accessed April 24, 2023. https://www.nhmagazine.com/breaking-silence-cecelia-pierce-speaks/.

West, Nancy, and David Mendelsohn. 2016. Pamela Smart: innocent of (still) guilty. October 13. Accessed April 29, 2023. https://www.nhmagazine.com/pamela-smart-innocent-or-still-guilty/

https://www.bostonherald.com/2015/03/09/brother-of-pamela-smarts-victim-killer-did-his-time/

Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)

Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)

Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash Kelley

Listener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra Lally

Listener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025)

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Mention the Pamela Smart case to someone in New Hampshire, and they'll know exactly what you're talking about. The case captivated the nation in the early 90's and at the center of it all, of course, was Pamela. A New Hampshire native, she had big dreams of becoming somebody and making a name for herself. She moved away from her small town and almost did, but in the name of love she moved back home and settled into her career as a School Administrator. It was via that position that she would meet young sophomore in High School, Billy Flynn. Pam groomed the boy, and had him thinking they were fully in love before she asked him a question that would change both of their lives forever: Would he murder her husband? In part one we'll cover the early life of both Pam and her husband, Gregg Smart, we'll break down how Pam and Billy became involved with each other and just how Pam got Billy to believe that murdering her husband was what it would take for them to be together forever.

Special thank you to the brilliant David White for research assistance

References

Baker, Frank. 1990. "Smart to be jailed until trial." Concord Monitor, August 14: 1.

—. 1990. "Widow charged as accomplice." Concord Monitor, August 2: 14.

Carton, Barbara. 1991. "The Pamela Smart story." Boston Globe, Marcg 21.

1991. NH v. Smart: Opening Statements. Directed by Court TV. Performed by Court TV.

Derry News. 1990. "Family and friends puzzle over murder." Derry News, May 4: 1.

Englade, Ken. 1991. Deadly Lessons. New York, NY: St. Martin's Press.

Gaines, Judith, and Alexander Reid. 1991. "Jurors say tales a key to their decision." Boston Globe, March 23: 1.

Hernandez, Monica. 2023. Accomplice in Smart murder asks for sentence reduction. January 10. Accessed May 1, 2023. https://www.wmur.com/article/smart-murder-vance-lattime-sentence-reduction/42449265.

Hohler, Bob. 1991. "3 guilty in N.H. killing." Boston Globe, January 30: 1.

—. 1991. "Confidant was wired by police." Boston Globe, March 15: 21.

—. 1991. "Smart is found guilty." Boston Globe, March 23: 1.

—. 1991. "Smart pleaded for life, N.H. teen-ager testifies." Boston Globe, March 6: 19.

—. 1991. "Tales of seduction." Boston Globe, March 12: 1.

—. 1990. "Tape offered at Smart hearing." Boston Globe, August 14.

—. 1991. "Witness: Smart asked for tips on reaction." Boston Globe, March 3: 27.

—. 1991. "Youth says blood flowed, tears did not." Boston Globe, March 13: 35.

Kilgannon, Corey. 2023. "Smart, who plotted with a teen lover to kill her husband, loses a parole bid." New York Times, March 30.

Kittredge, Clare. 1991. "A verdict to take to son's grave." Boston Globe, March 23: 1.

—. 1991. "Smart trial garners big TV audience." Boston Globe, March 17: 1.

Richardson, Franci. 1990. "Mrs. Smart absolutely convinced husband surprised thief." Derry News, May 9: 1.

Sawicki, Stephen. 1991. Teach Me to Kill: The Shocking True Story of the Pamela Smart Murder Case. New York, NY: Avon Books.

Schweitzer, Sarah. 2015. "5 years later, shooter to go free: William Flynn was 16 when he was lured into murder by Pamela Smart." Boston Globe, March 13: A1.

State of New Hampshire v. Pamela Smart. 1993. 622 A.2d 1197 (Supreme Court of New Hampshire, February 26).

Wang, Beverley. 2005. "Pamela Smart accomplice released." Concord Monitor, June 15: 10.

West, Nancy. 2016. Breaking Silence: Cecelia Pierce Speaks. October 12. Accessed April 24, 2023. https://www.nhmagazine.com/breaking-silence-cecelia-pierce-speaks/.

West, Nancy, and David Mendelsohn. 2016. Pamela Smart: innocent of (still) guilty. October 13. Accessed April 29, 2023. https://www.nhmagazine.com/pamela-smart-innocent-or-still-guilty/

https://www.bostonherald.com/2015/03/09/brother-of-pamela-smarts-victim-killer-did-his-time/

Thanks to Care/of for being a sponsor of this episode. For 50% off your first Care/of order, go to TakeCareOf.com and enter code MORBID50.

Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)

Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)

Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash Kelley

Listener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra Lally

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We've got a listener tale up in here!! This week we are joined by Alaina's #bffAF, the one and only Jon Lee Brody. On today's installment we feature stories of spooky road adventures, badass moms, asshole friends & some demon encounters.

Check out That Was Pretty Scary New episodes every Wednesday!

If you have a listener tale that you would like to send in please do so and direct it to [email protected] with "Listener Tale" somewhere in the subject line :)

Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)

Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)

Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash Kelley

Listener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra Lally

Listener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025)

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In the final chapter of our coverage of H.H.Holmes, we talk about the theories connecting him to Jack the Ripper, his final days on the run and a trial and execution that has gone down in history.

Thank you to Dave White for research assistance.

References

Boston Daily Globe. 1895. "At Burlington." Boston Daily Globe, August 8: 7.

—. 1894. "Believes husband dead." Boston Daily Globe, November 20: 1.

—. 1894. "Believes husband dead." Boston Daily Globe, November 20: 1.

—. 1895. "Hard and Selfish." Boston Daily Globe, August 7: 5.

—. 1894. "In the toils." Boston Daily Globe, November 18: 1.

—. 1895. "Mother's Love." Boston Daily Globe, August 6: 5.

Chicago Chronicle. 1895. "Tells of one crime." Chicago Chronicle, July 30: 2.

—. 1895. "Trail of the fiend." Chicago Chronicle, July 21: 1.

Chicago Tribune. 1894. "Spins his own web." Chacgo Tribune, November 22: 1.

—. 1895. "Holmes recognized in Toronto." Chcago Tribune, July 17: 12.

Daily Boston Globe. 1895. "Good Fisherman." Daily Boston Globe, August 9: 4.

Galveston Daily News. 1894. "Two Texas Girls." Galveston Daily News, November 22: 1.

Geyer, Frank P. 1896. The Holmes-Pitezel Case: A History of the Greatest Crime of the Century and of the Search for the Missing Pitezel Children. Philadelphia, PA: Publishers' Union.

Kerns, Rebecca, Tiffany Lewis, and Cailtin McClure. 2012. Herman Webster Mudgett: Dr. H.H. Holmes or Beast of Chicago. Lecture, Radford, VA: Department of Psychology, Radford University.

Larson, Erik. 2003. Devil in the White City: Murder, Magic, and Madness at the Fair that Changed America. New York, NY: Crown Publishers.

Mudgett, Herman W. 1895. Holmes' Own Story. Philadelphia, PA: Burke and McFetridge Company.

New York Times. 1895. "A boy Holmes' first victim." New York Times, July 31: 3.

—. 1896. "Appeal of murderer Holmes." New York Times, February 4: 8.

—. 1895. "Claims an alibi." New York Times, July 17: 1.

—. 1896. "Holmes cool to the end." New York Times, May 8: 1.

—. 1895. "Holmes enters a plea of guilty." New York Times, May 29: 1.

—. 1896. "Holmes in a ton of cement." New York Times, May 9: 1.

—. 1895. "Holmes sentenced to die." New York Times, December 1: 13.

—. 1894. "May be charged with murder." New York Times, November 19: 2.

—. 1895. "The Williams girls' fate." New York Times, July 21: 10.

Philadelphia Inquirer. 1894. "Cause of death a mystery." Philadelphia Inquirer, September 6: 6.

—. 1896. "Holmes' chronology." Philadelphia Inquirer, April 12: 18.

—. 1896. "Holmes Confesses 27 murders." Philadelphia Inquirer, April 26: 1.

Philadelphia Times. 1894. "All looking for Pitezel." Philadelphia Times, November 21: 1.

—. 1894. "Perry's Peculiar Death." Philadelphia Times, September 5: 3.

Selzer, Adam. 2017. H.H. Holmes: The True History of the White City Devil. New York, NY: Skyhorse Publishing.

St. Louis Post-Dispatch. 1894. "Arrested Again." St. Louis Post-Dispatch, July 29: 8.

Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)

Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)

Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash Kelley

Listener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra Lally

Listener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025)

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In Part 4 of H.H. Holmes, it gets even wilder. This man has now headed to Texas with his 500th wife and is ready to join his partner in crime, Benjamin Pitezel to steal Minnie Williams' inherited land. He has plans. He plans to now build a Texas murder castle like the one he created in Chicago. But first, Pitezel and Holmes need to scheme their way into a payday, using an insurance scam and faking Pitezel's death. When it looks like Pitezel might back out, things go sour and Holmes goes on a murder spree that brings him to several states and even Canada. Strap in, friends. It's complicated and horrific here.

Thank you to Dave White for research assistance.

Resources:

Philadelphia Inquirer. 1894. "Cause of death a mystery." Philadelphia Inquirer, September 6: 6.

—. 1896. "Holmes' chronology." Philadelphia Inquirer, April 12: 18.

—. 1896. "Holmes Confesses 27 murders." Philadelphia Inquirer, April 26: 1.

Philadelphia Times. 1894. "All looking for Pitezel." Philadelphia Times, November 21: 1.

—. 1894. "Perry's Peculiar Death." Philadelphia Times, September 5: 3.

Selzer, Adam. 2017. H.H. Holmes: The True History of the White City Devil. New York, NY: Skyhorse Publishing.

Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)

Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)

Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash Kelley

Listener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra Lally

Listener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025)

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In Part 3 H.H. Holmes isn't done being adulterous and he's taking evil to another level. He's conning wives left and right and then takes to arson to earn a quick buck. Today, we go deeper into the design of his "murder castle" while also watching this con man/killer descend further into madness. What will be his undoing? Stay tuned...

Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)

Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)

Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash Kelley

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Listener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025)

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In part 2 we talk about the infamous "Murder Castle" and begin to dive into the crimes committed there. Holmes' brutality and savagery knew no bounds and now he has a whole building to do it in.

Thank you to Dave White for research assistance!

Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)

Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)

Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash Kelley

Listener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra Lally

Listener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025)

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When Boston police arrested Dr. Henry Howard Holmes in a West End boarding house on November 17, 1894, they assumed they had apprehended an interstate criminal guilty of defrauding the Fidelity Insurance company of $10,000 and of being a horse thief in Texas. Holmes had been tracked to New England by the Pinkerton Detective Agency, who had suspected him of other crimes in various cities across the country; yet even the most seasoned and creative detective couldn’t have imagined the horrific scope and magnitude of crimes he’d committed.

Thanks Dave for this magnificent synopsis!

Thanks to Care/of for being a sponsor of this episode. For 50% off your first Care/of order, go to TakeCareOf.com and enter code MORBID50.

Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)

Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)

Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash Kelley

Listener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra Lally

Listener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025)

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When the body of fourteen-year-old Chris Steiner was discovered floating in the Wisconsin River on July 10, 1994, it brought a heartbreaking end to the search for the boy who had mysteriously disappeared from his Baraboo, Wisconsin home a week earlier. Officially, the cause of death was drowning. His death was a tragic accident, and nothing more.

But was it? A year later, a harrowing 911 call from 14 year old Thad Phillips would bring to light a monster in the boys' own neighborhood, one that would change the ruling in Chris Steiner's death and horrify the community forever.

References

Associated Press. 1997. Court awards $21M in torture case. October 14. Accessed April 6, 2023. https://apnews.com/article/5ded061aa228f6b8a597557fb8724258.

—. 1995. "Teen-age suspect in kidnapping-torture was taunted by peers about 1994 death." Wisconsin State Journal, August 11: 24.

Chickering, Pam. 1994. "Baraboo teen-ager missing." Baraboo News Republic, July 8: 1.

Clark, Anita. 1996. "Expert: Clark is a sadist, not insane." Wisconsin State Journal, September 18.

Dvorak, Rich, and Troy Laack. 1994. "Clue's sought in teen's death." Baraboo News Republic, July 13: 1.

—. 1994. "Missing youth's body found." Baraboo News Republic, July 12: 1.

Elbow, Steven. 1997. "Expert witness denied voice at Clark trial." Baraboo News Republic, November 7: 1.

—. 1996. "Formal charges filed in Steiner case." Portage Daily Register, September 26: 1.

Grunig, Tara. 1995. "Clark charged as adult in Phillips case." The Daily Register, September 8: 1.

Jaeger, Richard. 1995. "Autopsy discovers broken bones." Wisconsin State Journal, August 5: 1.

—. 1995. "Kidnapping-torture similar to year-old case." Wisconsin State Journal, August 3: 1.

—. 1995. "Teen questioned in '94 drowning." Wisconsin State Journal, August 4: 1D-2D.

O'Connell, Mike. 1995. "13-year-old boy kidnapped, tortured." Baraboo News Republic, August 2: 1.

—. 1996. "Clark's defense." Baraboo News Republic, September 17: 1.

—. 1996. "'Do you know Chris Steiner'." Baraboo News Republic, September 17: 1.

—. 1996. "Jurors bring swift decision; Clark faces 110 hard years." Baraboo News Republic, September 19: 1.

—. 1995. "Report confirms incident details." Baraboo News Republic, August 2: 1.

Seely, Ron. 1994. "Teen's parents left to wonder." Wisconsin State Journal, August 7: 21.

State of Wisconsin v. Joseph C. Clark. 1998. 97-3584-CR (Court of Appeals of Wisconsin, September 3).

State of Wisconsin v. Joseph C. Clark. 1999. 98-2402-CR-NM (Court of Appeals of Wisconsin, March 25).

Wisconsin State Journal. 1996. "Broken-bome assault case brings plea of no contest." Wisconsin State Journal, September 6.

—. 1996. "Shooting delays murder hearing ." Wisconsin State Journal, October 11.

—. 1997. "Teen killer who tortured victims gets life in prison." Wisconsin State Journal, November 21.

Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)

Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)

Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash Kelley

Listener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra Lally

Listener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025)

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On the morning of January 25, 2019, Seminole County sheriff’s deputies were dispatched to a home in Chuluota, Florida to conduct a well-being check on thirty-one-year-old Cody Amato, who failed to show up for work that day. Upon entering the home, officers discovered the bodies of Cody, Chad, and Margaret Amato, all dead from apparent gunshot wounds—there were no signs of a break-in and nothing was missing. The crime scene looked as though it had been staged to look like a murder-suicide and suspicion quickly fell on the Amato’s youngest son, Grant, who was missing from the home.

Thank you so much to the lovely David White for research assistance

References

Dukes, Amanda. 2019. Grant Amato, man found guilty of killing family members, sentenced to life in prison. August 13. Accessed March 22, 2023. https://www.wesh.com/article/penalty-phase-for-grant-amato-to-begin-monday/28670352#.

Seminole County Sheriff's Office. 2018. CJIS Report. Missing Person; Well-Being, Chuluota, FL: Seminole County Sheriff's Office.

State of Florida vs. Grant Tiernan Amato. 2019. 20190000740 (Circuit Court of the Eighteenth Judicial Circuit in and for Seminole County, Florida, January 28).

Swenson, Kyle. 2019. "He spent $200,000 on a Bulgarian 'cam girl.'." Washington Post, January 29.

Williams, Michael. 2019. "Accused killer seeks millonaire for help with jail bond, emails reveal." Orlando Sentinel, May 15: A1.

—. 2019. "Amato's lawyers ask judge to sequester jruy." Orlando Sentinel, June 12: B2.

—. 2019. "Grant Amato verdict: Guilty of first-degree murder in killings of family." Orlando Sentinel, July 31.

—. 2019. "'I have become somewhat of a celebrity,' accused killer Grant Amato says in letter." Orlando Sentinel, April 27: B2.

—. 2019. "'I want to believe you,' surviving sibling says." Orlando Sentinel, March 28: A1.

—. 2019. "Judge grants $750k bond for suspect in family murders." Orlando Sentinel, April 26: B1.

—. 2019. "Obsession, money, lies tore this family apart." Orlando Sentinel, July 14: A1.

—. 2019. "Records give glimpse into Chulota man's relationship with model." Orlando Sentinel, May 30: B1.

Williams, Michael, Jeff Weiner, and Gal Lotan. 2019. "'I hate myself for what I did"." Orlando Sentinel, April 16: A1.

Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)

Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)

Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash Kelley

Listener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra Lally

Listener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025)

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