In this episode, we talk to retired US Army Apache pilot Dan McClinton. He tells two stories from a 2007 deployment to Iraq. Together, the stories demonstrate powerful lessons about how military units learn, how they improve, and how that improvement requires servicemembers and leaders to be honest and, at times, self-critical.
Note: This episode was originally released in 2018.

Neutralize the Threat

The Spear is a podcast from the Modern War Institute at West Point. It sets out to explore the combat experience, with each episode featuring a guest who tells a detailed and personal story, describing the events and exploring topics like decision-making under stress and what it feels like to be in combat.

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In this episode, Joe Roland joins to share a story from 2004. A UH-60 Black Hawk pilot, his aircraft and another were supporting an Army Special Forces team in search of a group of enemy combatants in Afghanistan. As soon as his helicopter landed to drop off a US soldier and two Afghans to take up an overwatch position, enemy fighters were identified approaching the position. Roland made a quick decision—to hover his aircraft between the enemy fighters and the friendly position. He shares the story of that decision and the fighting that quickly followed in this episode.

A Black Hawk in a Firefight

Just six weeks out of flight school, Jordan Terry was in Afghanistan. On one of his first days flying, he took off on a flight that was supposed to be straightforward—he and three other pilots left their base in two OH-58D Kiowa helicopters, intending to help get him oriented to the rugged, mountainous area the unit was responsible for. On their way back, they they flew around a bend in a valley and came upon an Afghan unit under fire from Taliban fighters. The mission quickly changed, and an hours-long fight ensued, with the two helicopters repeatedly engaging the enemy from the air, refueling and rearming, and returning to the fight.

Kiowas in Action

In August 2007, a US Army Special Forces team came under fire while passing through a valley in Afghanistan. The call for support went to a nearby base, where an AC-130H Spectre gunship crew was standing by. The crew quickly launched, and shortly later, the aircraft was overhead. This is the type of job the AC-130H was designed for. In the hours that followed, they engaged enemy targets a number of times with both a 40-millimeter cannon and a 105-millimeter howitzer. Michael Murphy was a copilot on that aircraft in Afghanistan, and he joins this episode to share the story.

Spectre in the Sky

In this episode, host Tim Heck is joined by Lt. Col. Blake Schwartz. In 2009, Schwartz was a Special Forces team leader deployed in Afghanistan's Uruzgan province. Enemy fighters in the Langar valley, a restive area astride a vital road network, were a particular target for Schwartz’s soldiers. Schwartz attempted three times to enter the valley with his forces. On his final attempt, while countering a Taliban ambush, he authorized the firing of a Hellfire missile from an orbiting MQ-1 Predator. The impact had unintended consequences for the mission and for Schwartz.

Ambush in Uruzgan

When Chris L’Heureux joined the Army in 1999, it was before the 9/11 attacks and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that would define a generation of US Army service. Like many others across the Army, he would go on to deploy multiple times to those war zones. But his first deployment was very different. As a platoon leader, Chris and his soldiers were sent to Kosovo as peacekeepers. In his words, the United States had committed to placing American service members “in between two groups of people that desperately wanted to kill each other.” Some of his experiences would foreshadow challenges of future counterinsurgency operations. But one incident—which drew the platoon directly into an extraordinarily difficult situation when locals accused Russian peacekeepers in the area of criminal violence—presented dilemmas few lieutenants are fully prepared to face. He joins this episode to share the story.

Neutralize the Threat

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