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Nick Hudson is PANDA's Chairman and an actuary with broad international experience in finance. He has settled into a career as a private equity investor. Jerm and Nick explore various themes. They begin with the nature of public discourse and how fear and dogma impact societal beliefs.

The pair delve into the complexities of health and immunity while they discuss the limitations of binary thought to understand these nuanced topics. They examine the role of propaganda to shape narratives and highlight how it influences public perception and decision-making processes.

The conversation moves on to address the challenges posed by centralised control through frameworks like Sustainable Development Goals, and then explores inadequacies with models to understand complex systems.

Nick and Jerm conclude with an examination of philosophical implications for health and mortality. They question conventional approaches to the fundamental aspects of human existence whilst they advocate for more sophisticated thought beyond simplistic binary frameworks.