In this episode of the Night Owls podcast, John Ellis and Joe Klein sit down with Rye Barcott, co-founder of With Honor, for a candid conversation about courage, service, and the collapse of civic trust in modern American politics. Drawing from his forthcoming book Courage Can Save Us, Barcott profiles a new generation of veterans-turned-public servants, including Mark Kelly, Wes Moore, Mikie Sherrill, and Dan Crenshaw, who are trying to navigate an increasingly toxic political system without surrendering their principles. The discussion explores bipartisan cooperation, the rise of political intimidation and death threats, the importance of national service, and why military culture still produces leaders capable of putting mission above ego. It’s ultimately a surprisingly hopeful conversation about the fragile possibility of civic renewal in a country increasingly organized around grievance, performance, and division.

Hosted by John Ellis and Joe Klein

Sanity Clause on Substack

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Produced by Dale Eisinger

In this episode of Night Owls, Joe Klein and John Ellis talk with political economist Nicholas Eberstadt about his latest book: a collection of essays entitled America’s Human Arithmetic. One of those essays -- 'Our Miserable 21st Century' -- remains the most read "article" in the long history of Commentary magazine. In the book, Eberstadt argues that while the U.S. is more prosperous than ever, tens of millions of Americans are not flourishing. 

The conversation explores how cultural erosion, not just economics, drives these trends, touching on the collapse of community, failures in education, the unintended consequences of welfare and disability systems and the astonishing rise of men in their prime working years who don't work. Eberstadt describes stark geographic and demographic divides as well, while maintaining cautious optimism about America’s resilience, entrepreneurial energy, and capacity for renewal.

Hosted by John Ellis and Joe Klein

Sanity Clause on Substack

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Produced by Dale Eisinger

In this episode of Night Owls, John Ellis and Joe Klein sit down with retired Lieutenant General Michael Fenzel for a discussion about war, from Desert Storm to Afghanistan and Iraq to what we now call Gulf War 3. Fenzel's career in the military was shaped by war’s evolution and its enduring unpredictability. The conversation addresses Iran’s military calculus, the growing dominance of proxy warfare, and why today’s battlefields extend from the Strait of Hormuz to outer space. Along the way, Fenzel offers candid assessments of leadership, fragile ceasefires, and the limits of diplomacy in an age of permanent tension. About war, he says, there is one central truth: the battle plan is the first casualty.

Hosted by John Ellis and Joe Klein

Sanity Clause on Substack

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Produced by Dale Eisinger

In episode 75 of Night Owls, John Ellis and Joe Klein pour a late-night double of geopolitics, economics, and technological dread. The conversation opens with President Trump’s latest press conference on Iran, where the rhetoric is hot, the implications hotter, and the margin for miscalculation somewhere between “razor-thin” and “catastrophic.” Ellis and Klein unpack the strange chessboard of Middle Eastern politics, where every move, whether military, rhetorical, or symbolic, reverberates through Israel’s strategic calculus, Iran’s internal factions, and America’s appetite for risk.

Back home, the mood doesn’t exactly lighten. Inflation continues its slow, grinding assault on American consumers, turning everyday purchases into small existential crises. Meanwhile, artificial intelligence looms over the labor market like an unpaid intern who just learned how to do your job better than you can. Ellis and Klein explore what happens when automation stops being theoretical and starts quietly rearranging reality.

Then comes the truly unnerving frontier: deepfakes. In a world where seeing is no longer believing, the hosts examine how synthetic media threatens to collapse the already fragile boundary between truth and fiction, and what that means for democracy, journalism, and basic sanity.

Finally, the episode closes with a reflection on Jesse Jackson’s political legacy and the shifting power dynamics inside a Democratic Party that seems, depending on the day, either on the brink of reinvention or total confusion.

Hosted by John Ellis and Joe Klein

Sanity Clause on Substack

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Produced by Dale Eisinger

In the 2026 premier of Night Owls, John Ellis and Joe Klein recap Trump's first year of his second first term as president. The discussion begins with Trump's behavior at the recent Davos conference, which raised more concerns about the president's mental "capacity". They wonder when the "elite" news media is going to address the "mental capacity" issue directly. Moving right along, they consider the Republican and Democratic parties' challenges leading up to the 2026 elections, the importance of cultural issues and the Democratic Party's over-optimism about "the affordability crisis." The conversation also highlights education reforms in Mississippi, ongoing international conflicts, and the rise of AI technology.  A lightning round closes the episode, with the hosts selecting their favorite books, movies, series, and sports moments of 2025.

Hosted by John Ellis and Joe Klein

Sanity Clause on Substack

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Produced by Dale Eisinger

In this episode of Night Owls, hosts John Ellis and Joe Klein discuss a range of political topics, focusing on Donald Trump's recent behavior, mental health, and the implications for the Republican Party. They explore the political landscape, including the dynamics of the upcoming elections, Trump's foreign policy regarding Ukraine, and the economic challenges facing the nation, such as healthcare and affordability. The conversation also touches on the impact of artificial intelligence on employment and concludes with year-end personal reflections on cultural issues and recommendations for books and movies.

Hosted by John Ellis and Joe Klein

Sanity Clause on Substack

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In this episode of Night Owls, John Ellis and Joe Klein engage with Cade Metz, a technology correspondent for The New York Times, discussing the evolution and implications of artificial intelligence. They explore Metz's journey in AI journalism, the financial investments in AI development, the competition between the US and China in AI capabilities, and the philosophical questions surrounding AI consciousness. The conversation also touches on the political landscape of Silicon Valley, the challenges of regulating AI, and the environmental concerns associated with data centers. Metz provides insights into the advancements in robotics and the influence of the rationalist community on AI development, concluding with a discussion on the future of AI and its societal impact.

In this episode of "Night Owls," hosts John Ellis and Joe Klein discuss the recent election results, highlighting the Democratic Party's significant victories across various states, including Georgia and Pennsylvania. They explore the implications of these results on the political landscape, particularly focusing on the impact of cultural and economic issues. The conversation delves into the role of Donald Trump in the elections, the dynamics within the Republican Party, and the potential future of the Democratic Party. The hosts also touch on the challenges faced by newly elected officials, such as Zohran Mamdani in New York, and the broader implications for upcoming elections.

In this episode, John Ellis and Joe Klein discuss the current political landscape, focusing on the endorsement of Andrew Cuomo for mayor of New York, the challenges facing the Democratic Party, and the implications of cultural issues on upcoming elections. They also delve into international topics such as Iran's political situation, the energy crisis related to AI, and the competitive edge of China's manufacturing. The conversation wraps up with insights on tariff policies and their impact on agriculture, as well as the future of the Democratic Party.

Podcasts like this one are sometimes called "wide-ranging discussions".

Joe and John cover a lot of ground: genomics, AI, reckless leadership, tariffs, military service, freedom of speech, bags of money, private equity, woebegone Democrats, and China's seemingly endless property crisis. They even talk about Kamala Harris's new book. 

Listen in.