Niver Niver Land

Jon Murray, founder of Noko and Kase in East Nashville, joins Tim on Niver Niver Land for a conversation about what it actually takes to build restaurants around people first.

Before Noko was ever a restaurant, Jon and his partners were already asking a deeper question: how do we take care of the people who make this industry work? In the wake of COVID, burnout, and the mass exodus from hospitality, they sat down and started naming what was broken, from paid time off to sustainability to the basic question of whether restaurant work could become emotionally and financially healthier. 

Tim and Jon talk about the early formation of Noko, the influence of Jon’s time with Indigo Road, and the decision to build an employee-first company from the beginning. Jon explains how investing in people, through travel stipends, paid time off, health benefits, gym memberships, four-day workweeks, and more, became not just a values statement, but a business model. 

They also get into trust, vulnerability, forgiveness, leadership, and the daily work of keeping a restaurant culture alive. Jon talks about why managers matter, why staff check-ins should be about more than work, and why taking care of employees is the clearest path to taking care of guests. 

This is a conversation about hospitality after burnout, the responsibility of ownership, and the possibility of building restaurants that are not only successful, but better for the people inside them.

This episode of Niver Niver Land is presented by Land O’Lakes and supported by 36 Lyn Refuel Station in Minneapolis.

--

NiverNiverLand's flagship sponsor is Land O’Lakes Foodservice.

You might be familiar with Land O'Lakes Butter and cheese in the grocery aisle, but did you know they also sell dairy products specifically developed for use in foodservice kitchens? If you're a chef or operator in the industry, check out their offerings like Extra Melt® cheese sauces, shreds, and loaves - providing creamy, melty, crave-able appeal for your menu from smashburgers to baked mac and cheese to signature queso…and so much more.

Farmer-owned since 1921, choosing Land O'Lakes® products for your kitchen helps support more than 1,000 Land O’Lakes farmer-owners.

https://www.landolakesfoodservice.com/

Chef and Dario founder Joe Rolle joins Tim on Niver Niver Land for a raw, funny, and deeply personal conversation about food, survival, craft, and what it takes to keep a restaurant alive.

Joe traces the path from growing up as a punk rock and skateboarding kid in a small town, working brutal days in his father’s logging business, struggling through school, addiction, ADHD, dyslexia, and eventually finding his way into kitchens. What started as a search for direction became a life in restaurants, from his first job at Palomino to formative years cooking in Minneapolis kitchens and learning from people who helped him catch the bug. 

Tim and Joe talk about the mentors, memories, and hard lessons that shaped him, including the dinner table as a safe place growing up, the value of being seen by even one person, and how the fight in him has changed over time. These days, Joe says he fights for his daughter, his employees, Dario, and restaurants themselves. 

They also dig into what Dario is really trying to be: a handmade pasta-focused restaurant built on personal cooking, deep technique, loud rooms, high standards, and the desire to give guests a place to forget about the outside world for a while. Joe talks through the reality behind the plate, from sauces and stocks to handmade pasta, perception of value, and the invisible labor guests do not always see. 

The conversation eventually lands on the harder truth of operating right now: slow months, public vulnerability, payroll pressure, downtown/North Loop uncertainty, and what it means to ask people to show up before it is too late. Joe is honest about the humility of that moment, the responsibility of keeping people employed, and the belief that if we want independent restaurants to survive, we have to support them while they are still here. 

This is a conversation about growing up, finding your craft, building something personal, and continuing to fight for the places that make a city feel alive.

This episode of Niver Niver Land is presented by Land O’Lakes and supported by 36 Lyn Refuel Station in Minneapolis.

--

NiverNiverLand's flagship sponsor is Land O’Lakes Foodservice.

You might be familiar with Land O'Lakes Butter and cheese in the grocery aisle, but did you know they also sell dairy products specifically developed for use in foodservice kitchens? If you're a chef or operator in the industry, check out their offerings like Extra Melt® cheese sauces, shreds, and loaves - providing creamy, melty, crave-able appeal for your menu from smashburgers to baked mac and cheese to signature queso…and so much more.

Farmer-owned since 1921, choosing Land O'Lakes® products for your kitchen helps support more than 1,000 Land O’Lakes farmer-owners.

https://www.landolakesfoodservice.com/

Chef, author, restaurateur, and MAJC co-founder Matt Jennings joins Tim on Niver Niver Land for a wide-ranging conversation about what it really means to grow, fail, rebuild, and keep serving the hospitality industry in a new way.

Matt’s career has taken him from acclaimed restaurants like Farmstead in Providence and Townsman in Boston to writing, consulting, coaching, and now to building MAJC, a hospitality platform focused on culture, hiring, retention, and training, and on helping restaurants better support their people.

In this episode, Tim and Matt talk about restaurant closures, ego, addiction, recovery, mentorship, marriage, leadership, and the hard lessons that come from chasing success before you fully understand the business behind it. They also dig into one of the biggest questions facing hospitality today: how do we stop burning people out and start building restaurants that actually help people grow?

This is a conversation about second chapters, better systems, and the people who make restaurants work.

This episode of Niver Niver Land is presented by Land O’Lakes and supported by 36 Lyn Refuel Station in Minneapolis.

--

NiverNiverLand's flagship sponsor is Land O’Lakes Foodservice.

You might be familiar with Land O'Lakes Butter and cheese in the grocery aisle, but did you know they also sell dairy products specifically developed for use in foodservice kitchens? If you're a chef or operator in the industry, check out their offerings like Extra Melt® cheese sauces, shreds, and loaves - providing creamy, melty, crave-able appeal for your menu from smashburgers to baked mac and cheese to signature queso…and so much more.

Farmer-owned since 1921, choosing Land O'Lakes® products for your kitchen helps support more than 1,000 Land O’Lakes farmer-owners.

https://www.landolakesfoodservice.com/

This week on Niver Niver Land, we sit down with Amari Collins, also known as Vin Dealer, a wine personality and cultural force helping reshape how people experience wine.

Through humor, energy, and complete authenticity, Amari has built a platform that challenges the traditional gatekeeping of wine culture and replaces it with something far more human.

In this conversation, we talk about wine as identity, breaking down exclusivity, building community through hospitality, and why people are craving experiences that feel real again.

From viral wine videos to Swirl School and live events, Amari is creating a new kind of space around food and beverage, one that’s rooted in joy, connection, and self-expression.

This episode of Niver Niver Land is presented by Land O’Lakes and supported by 36 Lyn Refuel Station in Minneapolis.

--

NiverNiverLand's flagship sponsor is Land O’Lakes Foodservice.

You might be familiar with Land O'Lakes Butter and cheese in the grocery aisle, but did you know they also sell dairy products specifically developed for use in foodservice kitchens? If you're a chef or operator in the industry, check out their offerings like Extra Melt® cheese sauces, shreds, and loaves - providing creamy, melty, crave-able appeal for your menu from smashburgers to baked mac and cheese to signature queso…and so much more.

Farmer-owned since 1921, choosing Land O'Lakes® products for your kitchen helps support more than 1,000 Land O’Lakes farmer-owners.

https://www.landolakesfoodservice.com/

Brandon Hoy, co-founder of Roberta’s Pizza, joins Tim on this episode of Niver Niver Land after discovering a clip of Tim talking about how different (and more difficult) the restaurant industry feels today compared to a decade ago.

That moment sparked a deeper conversation.

In this episode, Tim and Brandon talk about:

•  what it actually takes to run a restaurant right now 
•  how trends and consumer behavior have shifted 
•  the mindset required to stay in the game long-term 
•  restaurants as product vs. restaurants as art
•  why a restaurant should be treated more like a child that needs guidance than a machine 
•  and the importance of learning not to martyr ourselves in this industry 

This is a grounded, honest conversation between two operators who have lived the highs, the lows, and everything in between.

--

NiverNiverLand is sponsored by Land O’Lakes Foodservice.

You might be familiar with Land O'Lakes Butter and cheese in the grocery aisle, but did you know they also sell dairy products specifically developed for use in foodservice kitchens? If you're a chef or operator in the industry, check out their offerings like Extra Melt® cheese sauces, shreds, and loaves - providing creamy, melty, crave-able appeal for your menu from smashburgers to baked mac and cheese to signature queso…and so much more.

Farmer-owned since 1921, choosing Land O'Lakes® products for your kitchen helps support more than 1,000 Land O’Lakes farmer-owners.

https://www.landolakesfoodservice.com/

Chef-owner Abe Gessesse of Hyacinth in St. Paul joins Tim on this episode of Niver Niver Land for a conversation about what it really takes to run a restaurant today.

Abe took over Hyacinth in 2023, having been the first-line cook hired when the restaurant opened in 2018, eventually becoming its chef-owner and earning a James Beard semifinalist nomination shortly after taking the reins. 

In this episode, Tim and Abe talk about the realities behind restaurant ownership, including:

• the different phases every restaurant goes through
• how outside forces can suddenly reshape the business
• the massive hit Twin Cities restaurants took during the recent ICE raids
• the emotional and financial weight of ownership
• and what actually makes a restaurant good enough to survive long-term

Hyacinth is a tiny neighborhood restaurant known for its Italian-leaning menu and highly personal service, where guests can often see the kitchen at work and feel closely connected to the people making their food. 

For Abe and Tim, this conversation isn’t theoretical. It’s the lived reality of running restaurants in a city that’s constantly evolving.

If you’ve ever wondered what restaurant owners are really thinking behind the scenes, this one goes deep.

--

NiverNiverLand is sponsored by Land O’Lakes Foodservice.

You might be familiar with Land O'Lakes Butter and cheese in the grocery aisle, but did you know they also sell dairy products specifically developed for use in foodservice kitchens? If you're a chef or operator in the industry, check out their offerings like Extra Melt® cheese sauces, shreds, and loaves - providing creamy, melty, crave-able appeal for your menu from smashburgers to baked mac and cheese to signature queso…and so much more.

Farmer-owned since 1921, choosing Land O'Lakes® products for your kitchen helps support more than 1,000 Land O’Lakes farmer-owners.

https://www.landolakesfoodservice.com/

We bring this episode to you today with a heavy heart. Following the tragic killing of Renee Good by ICE officers and the subsequent unrest unfolding across Minneapolis and the country, we debated whether now was the time to share this. We chose to move forward because hospitality is, at its core, the story of our community. To understand where our city is going, we have to look at the spaces where we’ve gathered, worked, and lived for the last thirty years.

This is a reflection of the social and cultural shifts in the United States, seen through the lens of the dining room.

And so in this episode, we’re out of the Mucci's studio and on the street. I take ya'll on a site-by-site tour of my career, discussing how the industry has transformed over the last few decades.

The Stops on the Tour:

• The Hyatt Regency & Aquavit: Where the foundation was laid.
• Town Talk Diner: The spark of a Minneapolis institution.
• The Strip Club Meat and Fish: A legendary run in Dayton's Bluff.
• Saint Dinette: Defining the modern Lowertown vibe.
• Mucci’s (St. Paul): The final stop and the current pulse of my work.

Along the way, I talk all about the changing tastes of the Twin Cities, what it really takes to survive three decades in the restaurant business, and what could be next for the industry.

--

NiverNiverLand is sponsored by Land O’Lakes Foodservice.

You might be familiar with Land O'Lakes Butter and cheese in the grocery aisle, but did you know they also sell dairy products specifically developed for use in foodservice kitchens? If you're a chef or operator in the industry, check out their offerings like Extra Melt® cheese sauces, shreds, and loaves - providing creamy, melty, crave-able appeal for your menu from smashburgers to baked mac and cheese to signature queso…and so much more.

Farmer-owned since 1921, choosing Land O'Lakes® products for your kitchen helps support more than 1,000 Land O’Lakes farmer-owners.

https://www.landolakesfoodservice.com/

This episode of Niver Niver Land features a high-energy live recording from the
Falling Knife Brewing Company taproom, where host Tim Niver sits down with the duo behind the Wrecktangle Pizza empire: Jeff Rogers and Breanna Evans.

Recorded in December 2025, the conversation dives into the messy, beautiful, and often hilarious reality of running a rapidly expanding restaurant group while maintaining a partnership. From their rise from food hall startup to national acclaim on Good Morning America, Jeff and Breanna share what it’s actually like to navigate the "massive change" of today's hospitality industry.

In this episode, we explore:

• The Partnership Dynamic: How Jeff (Chef/Owner) and Breanna (COO and "Sunshine Director") balance business growth with their personal lives.
• The "Wrecktangle" Rise: Navigating the shift from a niche Detroit-style pizza pop-up to a multi-location powerhouse.
• Industry Realities: A candid look at the challenges of modern restaurant operations, including the recent closure of Wrestaurant at the Palace and what "exiting" really feels like.
• Live Q&A: The team takes questions from the Falling Knife crowd, covering everything from flavor profiles to the importance of community and "beer and a bump" culture.

--

NiverNiverLand is sponsored by Land O’Lakes Foodservice.

You might be familiar with Land O'Lakes Butter and cheese in the grocery aisle, but did you know they also sell dairy products specifically developed for use in foodservice kitchens? If you're a chef or operator in the industry, check out their offerings like Extra Melt® cheese sauces, shreds, and loaves - providing creamy, melty, crave-able appeal for your menu from smashburgers to baked mac and cheese to signature queso…and so much more.

Farmer-owned since 1921, choosing Land O'Lakes® products for your kitchen helps support more than 1,000 Land O’Lakes farmer-owners.

https://www.landolakesfoodservice.com/

NiverNiverLand is sponsored by Land O’Lakes Foodservice.

You might be familiar with Land O'Lakes Butter and cheese in the grocery aisle, but did you know they also sell dairy products specifically developed for use in foodservice kitchens? If you're a chef or operator in the industry, check out their offerings like Extra Melt® cheese sauces, shreds, and loaves - providing creamy, melty, crave-able appeal for your menu from smashburgers to baked mac and cheese to signature queso…and so much more.

Farmer-owned since 1921, choosing Land O'Lakes® products for your kitchen helps support more than 1,000 Land O’Lakes farmer-owners.

https://www.landolakesfoodservice.com/

NiverNiverLand is sponsored by Land O’Lakes Foodservice.

You might be familiar with Land O'Lakes Butter and cheese in the grocery aisle, but did you know they also sell dairy products specifically developed for use in foodservice kitchens? If you're a chef or operator in the industry, check out their offerings like Extra Melt® cheese sauces, shreds, and loaves - providing creamy, melty, crave-able appeal for your menu from smashburgers to baked mac and cheese to signature queso…and so much more.

Farmer-owned since 1921, choosing Land O'Lakes® products for your kitchen helps support more than 1,000 Land O’Lakes farmer-owners.

https://www.landolakesfoodservice.com/