To open, Laura and Sarah talk about previous visions for their own career. Then, in the interview portion Erika Ayers Badan shares some fascinating ideas around work and what it takes to build a career that is truly fun and fulfilling -- she and Sarah discuss failure, boss challenges, coming back from maternity leave, and much more.

In the Q&A, a listener writes in asking about career coaches. Are they useful, and if so, how do you find a good one?

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.