Where we sit down for a few metaphorical and metaphysical beers with the icon Suzanne Clothier, and talk about how we view - and qualify - our relationships and (training) interactions with animals.

Also, transactional relationships vs social relationships, how animal training certifying bodies might assess trainers without a quadrant emphasis, and Suzanne and Lauren tell us how they really feel about training captive cetaceans with positive reinforcement.

Suzanne Clothier's website:

https://suzanneclothier.com/

Mosquito in ASL:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4Gwz2AT79o

Pros and cons of marine mammals in captivity:

https://www.marinebio.org/creatures/marine-life-in-captivity-exploring-the-pros-and-cons/

Violet, doing her tick impression:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Yqw_f26SvM

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Where we lay Matthias down on the therapy couch and take a bit of a wild ride to talk about what he sees as the inherent selfishness of animal ownership.

Also, we discuss rehoming animals, the mythical desert island of retired professional dog trainers, billionaire tourism, and who has a better life: the rodeo bucking horse or the show horse?

Billionaire tourism podcast:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/billionaire-tourism/id493536367?i=1000650933725

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Where we talk about the animal training and behaviour video content we put out on social media: is showing our 'mistakes' or less-than-perfect training or behaviour sessions harmful or helpful? What can be lost or gained by sharing such posts?

Also, we discuss 'before and after' training/behaviour videos, and Matthias' Jedi-like ways of staying open-minded while engaging with another trainer's content when he might disagree. Bonus: Matthias drops some S, D, and F-bombs, much to Lauren's delight. Finally.

Matthias' 'fridge face': https://www.equinebehaviorist.ca/fridge-face

Lauren engaging in what some might view as a training 'mistake' demonstration with her horse: https://youtu.be/cF2SGk9mZnc

The Hidden Brain podcast on making mistakes: https://hiddenbrain.org/podcast/making-the-most-of-your-mistakes/

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Where we talk with our first-ever guest, the lovely Sarah Stremming about using punishment - effectively and humanely - during dog or horse training.

Also, a discussion about what Sarah does differently now since the airing of her podcast episode on this same topic, choke chains on dolphins (?!), and how 'make them know they're wrong' might not be the best approach when using punishment.

You can find Sarah and her offerings at: https://sarahstremming.com/

Or listen to the very Cog-Dog pod episode that got Matthias hankering to have Sarah on our pod: https://soundcloud.com/sarah-stremming/punishment-within-lima

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Where we talk about under-discussed pitfalls that can occur when (poorly? inappropriately?) using positive reinforcement (R+) to train dogs and horses.

Also, a discussion where Lauren womansplains to Matthias about male erections, and why it might not be cool for your animal to get an erection during training.

A summary on erections in horses during R+ training:

Parts one and two of a survey on erections in horses during R+ training (not the full papers, unfortunately):

http://tinyurl.com/part1erectionsduringtraining

http://tinyurl.com/part2erectionsduringtraining

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Where we talk about what Lauren awkwardly calls a 'trolley problem problem' in our industry: a situation where whether you pull one lever or the other, there are going to be consequences and people may judge you either way. But should they? Who stands to gain if you pull the lever? And who stands to lose?

Also, Matthias doesn't really want you to learn about punishment from the person who uses it all the time, Lauren wants a click and treat for limited swearing, and this trolley totally gets derailed.

The trolley problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem

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Where we talk about the use of pressure to teach horses and dogs, issues within our industry related to pressure-based training, and how Lauren feels about Matthias' lozenge use.

Lauren demonstrates teaching a person how their use of pressure feels to the animal: https://youtu.be/VqM97C3q9PA

Matthias' favourite lozenges with which to annoy Lauren https://youtu.be/f42YGUKinJ4?si=4o_2yEONfutDqz4k

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Where you meet your hosts, animal behaviour and training professionals Lauren and Matthias, and hear them talk about why they wanted to start a podcast, how they met (not at all awkward), and why Lauren isn't called Rat Lauren.

Matthias' Pedro the Fish https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100064202130880

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