Oral Argument

Oral Argument

By Joe Miller and Christian TurnerSociety & CultureEducationPhilosophy
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Oral Argument episodes

  • Episode 177: The Hard Drive Has Always Been the Enemy

    It's our annual Supreme Court term roundup, with special guest Ian Samuel. We discuss, natch, one case, Carpenter v. United States, which concerns the need for a warrant to get records from cell phone companies concerning the location of your phone. But there's much more, including: hard drive upgrades, the sum total of human writing, audio vs. text for messaging, emojis, AI and grunts, Supreme Court-packing / balancing / restructuring (16:37), what rules of procedure an enlarged Court should set for itself and what rules should be imposed on it (29:00), podcast lengths and listening habits (51:04), Carpenter v. United States(01:02:06), Batman movies, and Hold-Up.

    This show’s links:

    • First Mondays
    • Ian Samuel’s writing
    • Ian Samuel, The New Writs of Assistance
    • Snopes, Did Facebook Shut Down an AI Experiment Because Chatbots Developed Their Own Language? (no, but interesting)
    • Oral Argument 134: Crossover
    • Christian Turner, Amendment XXVIII: A First Draft
    • Ian Ayres and John Witt, Democrats Need a Plan B for the Supreme Court. Here’s One Option.
    • Oral Argument 37: Hammer Blow (with Michael Dorf); Oral Argument 38: You're Going to Hate this Answer_ (with Steve Vladeck); Christian Turner, Bound by Federal Law (including links to posts by Michael and Steve on the issue of state courts' not being bound by federal circuit courts)
    • Carpenter v. United States
    • Radiolab, Eye in the Sky
    • Ian Samuel, Warrantless Location Tracking
    • Lucas v. South Carolina Coastal Council
    • Florida v. Jardines
    • Justice Souter’s discussion of Plessy and the role of history in judging (watch from minute one until about minute fourteen) and his Harvard Commencement speech on Plessy
    • Hold Up!
    • Special Guest: Ian Samuel.

      2 hr 16 min
    • Episode 176: Ultimate Monday

      A full hour of pre-roll before our extended conversation (in the next episode) with Ian Samuel. Opening topics: Words, Joe's new paper, phones and their spam and locations. We argue about how to have an argument. Then we stumble into a psychological typology of judginess and prescriptivism. The heartland of the episode concerns the self, law, death, being and non-being, Joe's youthful fear of blindness, the external and internal point of view, the reality of firehouses, and law as a social practice for reaching acceptable social conclusions vs. law as a queryable thing. (Other potential show titles: Pure Pre-Roll, The Jerk Box, and The Jailor.)

      This show’s links:

      • About "antepenultimate" (including links to "propreantepenultimate")
      • About Battle Royale games
      • Tim Dowling, Order Force: The Old Grammar Rule We All Obey Without Realising
      • Joe Miller, Law's Semantic Self-Portrait: Discerning Doctrine with Co-Citation Networks and Keywords
      • Carpenter v. United States
      • Anil Seth, The Real Problem (on the problem of consciousness)
      • Philip Bobbitt, Constitutional Fate: Theory of the Constitution,
      • 1 hr 4 min
      • Episode 175: The Law Should Not Kick Down

        We're joined by Paul Gowder to discuss the rule of law, private power, and technology. We start, after important discussion of fishing bycatch and speech patterns of the western United States, with Paul's more general thoughts on the rule of law, oligopolies, and equality. Conversation then focuses on the connection between substantive politics and rule of law and principles and then on the role of technology in facilitating collective action, including through Paul's Dr. StrangeContract and a new podcast idea for Paul's fights with customer service at large corporations and a prognostication of a future of AI retention specialists vs. CancelBots.

        This show’s links:

        • Paul Gowder's faculty profile and website, which includes links to his writing
        • Paul Gowder, The Rule of Law in the Real World
        • Paul Gowder, Transformative Legal Technology and the Rule of Law
        • About bycatch
        • Nathan Masters, The 5, the 101, the 405: Why Southern Californians Love Saying "the" Before Freeway Numbers
        • Mignon Fogarty, Spendy
        • Roadwork
        • AT&T Mobility v. Concepcion
        • Margaret Jane Radin, Boilerplate: The Fine Print, Vanishing Rights, and the Rule of Law; see also Margaret Jane Radin, Boilerplate: A Threat to the Rule of Law?
        • F.A. Hayek, Law, Legislation and Liberty: Vol.1
        • Elizabeth Anderson, What Is the Point of Equality?
        • Pericles's Funeral Oration
        • Oral Argument 133: Too Many Darn Radio Buttons (guest Jim Gibson)
        • Frank Pasquale, Is Eviction-as-a-Service the Hottest New #LegalTech Trend?
        • Ron Amadeo, Talking to Google Duplex: Google’s Human-Like Phone AI Feels Revolutionary
        • Special Guest: Paul Gowder.

          1 hr 21 min
        • Episode 174: Podcast of Record

          Just Joe and Christian on a double-album of an episode. Lots of nonsense and a smattering of sense, including: notaries public, international sport and boycotts and drugs, bears and snakes, the Deep South and weather, these days and conversation, a tiny, incomplete dip into the mailbag, the pronunciation of Argunauts, what we should do with our lives, law and neutrality, law as a substitute for war, 2 + 2 = 5 and right and wrong, hard and easy problems, freedom reasoning and the New Lochner, court packing, changing the constitution of the Supreme Court, religious tests for office and the nature of convictions about convictions.

          This show’s links:

          • All about notaries public
          • Rebecca R. Ruiz and Michael Schwirtz, Russian Insider Says State-Run Doping Fueled Olympic Gold; the "McLaren Report" on Russian doping in Sochi
          • Stephen Herrero, Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance
          • Ella Morton, The Snake Catchers Who Handle Australia’s Most Venomous Home Invaders
          • About the "Deep South"
          • Katie Herzog, How Air-Conditioning Made America — and How It Could Break Us All
          • Christian Turner, The Failures of Freedom
          • Oral Argument 134: Crossover (guests Dan Epps and Ian Samuel)
          • 2 hr 12 min
          • Episode 173: Faithful Execution

            The Constitution requires the President to "take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed." Phrases like "faithful execution" are hardly unique to the constitutional setting. Rather, they have long been signals of both public and private relationships of trust and confidence, relationships that give rise to "fiduciary duties" in law. Ethan Leib and Jed Shugerman argue that the President has fiduciary duties and that these constrain his or her power to pardon and otherwise to act.

            This show’s links:

            • Ethan Leib’s faculty profile and academic writing
            • Jed Shugerman’s faculty profile, academic writing, and blog
            • Ethan Leib and Jed Shugerman, Fiduciary Constitutionalism and ‘Faithful Execution’: Two Legal Conclusions
            • Gary Lawson and Guy Seidman, "A Great Power of Attorney:" Understanding the Fiduciary Constitution
            • Eric Muller, Even More on Self-Pardons (containing links to Eric's original post and to a critique by Michael McConnell)
            • Special Guests: Ethan Leib and Jed Shugerman.

              1 hr 37 min
            • Episode 172: Apex Criminality

              If we were starting from scratch, as our guest Aziz Huq puts it, how should our constitution deal with criminality by high government officials? We talk about the constitutional designer's perspective, the criminalization of politics, and the politicization of the rule of law.

              This show’s links:

              • Aziz Huq’s faculty profile and academic writing
              • Aziz Huq, Legal or Political Checks on Apex Criminality: An Essay on Constitutional Design
              • Thomas Ginsburg, Zachary Elkins, and James Melton, The Lifespan of Written Constitutions; Tom Ginsburg and James Melton, Does the Constitutional Amendment Rule Matter at All? Amendment Cultures and the Challenges of Measuring Amendment Difficulty; Aziz Huq, The Function of Article V
              • Aziz Huq, Hippocratic Constitutional Design in Assessing Constitutional Performance
              • Tom Ginsburg and Aziz Huq, How to Save a Constitutional Democracy; Aziz Huq and Tom Ginsburg, How to Lose a Constitutional Democracy (see also the version of these ideas in Tom and Aziz's article for Vox)
              • The Comparative Constitutions Project
              • Special Guest: Aziz Huq.

                1 hr 16 min
              • Episode 171: Garbage Gut

                Steve Vladeck rejoins us on ... lots of things. Christian returns from a conference abroad, french fries, standing, Iceland, patents and trial by battle, Trump, pronunciation in the Supreme Court and in various American cities, thunder. And then, (at 26:41 if you want to skip to the more serious part) a Dalmazzi update and general speculation about the authorship of pending cases and what's going on in the building. Will the big cases this term - travel ban, redistricting - fizzle like Masterpiece? Are there lessons or opportunities for reform of the Court's jurisdiction, procedures, and politics (46:21)? Then we discuss the new DOJ guidance on asylum, released while we were recording, and the immigration and general political crisis we now face (1:10:42).

                This show’s links:

                • Steve Vladeck’s faculty profile and academic writing
                • The National Security Law Podcast
                • Special Guest: Steve Vladeck.

                  1 hr 48 min
                • Episode 170: The Starters

                  We talk with Charles Barzun about what it means to be a legal pragmatist. But first we start with the ending and then talk John Hodgman, the F words (Framers and Founders), the old 2x debate, and finally (at 13:31) about legal pragmatism and its many senses. We connect the topic to interpretation, ethics, the age of our legal asteroid, families, infidelity, rupture, continuity, Justice Souter, quietism agonistes, and more.

                  This show’s links:

                  • Charles Barzun’s faculty profile and writing
                  • Charles Barzun, Three Forms of Legal Pragmatism
                  • About Shane Carruth, director of Primer and Upstream Color
                  • Judge John Hodgman and John Hodgman, Vacationland
                  • Brian Tamanaha, A Realistic Theory of Law
                  • Charles Barzun, Inside/Out: Beyond the Internal/External Distinction in Legal Scholarship
                  • Guy Kahane, Evolutionary Debunking Arguments
                  • Charles Barzun, Justice Souter’s Common Law
                  • Oral Argument 146: Somehow in the Middle (with Charles discussing Justice Souter)
                  • Special Guest: Charles Barzun.

                    1 hr 37 min
                  • Episode 168: Galaxy-Sized Diamond

                    Do you believe that once upon a time, before the rise of the administrative state, our legislature mainly legislated, our executive just carried out laws, and judges resolved individual disputes? Prepare to have your mind blown, as Maggie McKinley explains the central and evolving role that individual petitions for redress before Congress played from before the dawn of the Republic until the 1940s. She argues that our participation in government rather than formal, institutional separation has been the historical guarantor of democratic legitimacy.

                    This show’s links:

                    • Maggie McKinley's faculty profile and writing
                    • Maggie McKinley, Petitioning and the Making of the Administrative State
                    • Maggie McKinley, Lobbying and the Petition Clause
                    • Sonja West, First Amendment Neighbors
                    • Oral Argument 1: Send Joe to Prison (guest Sonja West)
                    • Special Guest: Maggie McKinley.

                      1 hr 24 min

                    About Oral Argument

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                    A podcast about law, law school, legal theory, and other nerdy things that interest us.