Outthinkers

William Duggan is lecturer of strategy and innovation at Columbia Business School, and the author of four books on innovation: Strategic Intuition: The Creative Spark in Human Achievement (2007); Creative Strategy: A Guide for Innovation (2012); and The Seventh Sense: How Flashes of Insight Change Your Life (2015), and his most recent work: Corporate Innovator: A Guide Through the Labyrinth, published in 2024.

In his book, Bill covers employee-driven innovation. Bill dives deep into a dilemma he found resurfacing time and again in his research from interviews he conducted: the seemingly never-ending maze that corporate employees face in trying to bring their ideas to reality. 

Here we cover insights from his into how employees can navigate “the corporate labyrinth,” and how employers can lower the obstacles they (usually unwittingly) put in the path of would-be internal innovators.

In this podcast, he shares: 

• An explanation in neurological—yet easy to understand terms—of the way in which our minds come up with new ideas 
• The way in which organizations often create endless obstacles to people innovating within their roles—hence his apt metaphor of the labyrinth 
• Practical techniques for how individuals can navigate and overcome these obstacles to successfully navigate this corporate labyrinth 

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Episode Timeline:
00:00—Highlight from today's episode
1:20—Introducing Bill + the topic of today’s episode
3:37—If you really know me, you know that...
4:26—Defining strategy
04:54—Motivation that lead to writing Corporate Innovator
07:17—Research approach for Corporate Innovator
9:36—The corporate labyrinth
11:55—Where innovative ideas come from
13:38—Techniques for generating more ideas
15:24—The idea hierarchy obstacle
18:08—Tunnel vision and the core business 
20:15—The Ally Maze: managing up, across, and down
22:41—Tyranny of the team 
24:29—Mind games 
24:41—Effective language for discussing new ideas with your team
24:38—Handling "bad" ideas constructively
27:10—How can people follow you and continue learning from you?
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Additional Resources:
Faculty page: https://business.columbia.edu/faculty/people/william-duggan
Link to book:  Corporate Innovator: A Guide Through the Labyrinth

Thank you to our guest. Thank you to our executive producer, Karina Reyes, our editor, Zach Ness, and the rest of the team. If you like what you heard, please follow, download, and subscribe. I'm your host, Kaihan Krippendorff. Thank you for listening.

Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

Frederik Pferdt is Google's first Chief Innovation Evangelist and author of "WHAT'S NEXT IS NOW: How To Live Future Ready.” 

During his time at Google, Frederik played a pivotal role in shaping one of the world's most renowned creative cultures. He founded Google's Innovation Lab, where he trained tens of thousands of Googlers to develop and experiment with cutting-edge ideas. For over a decade, he also taught groundbreaking classes on innovation and creativity at Stanford University. 

Something that shines through Frederik’s work is his eternal optimism and emphasis on an active creation of the future, rather than passive prediction. This perspective challenges us to think differently about innovation and our role in shaping the future. 

In this episode, Frederik shares: 

• How the future isn't something that merely happens to us, but something we have the power to actively create—a viewpoint that empowers organizations to see themselves as agents of change 
• The six dimensions of a future-ready mindstate, which together form a way of looking at the world that reveals potential all around you 
• Powerful—yet often underrated—psychological techniques that leverage positivity, gratitude, and optimism to enhance team dynamics, boost morale, and create a more innovative, engaged environment 

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Episode Timeline:
00:00—Highlight from today's episode
1:16—Introducing Frederik + the topic of today’s episode
3:38—If you really know me, you know that...
6:32— Defining strategy: Envisioning the future and designing experiments
07:52—Desired versus predictive future
09:51—The core idea of Frederik's book
11:41— The five dimensions of a future-ready mindset
15:14— Embracing optimism in innovation
17:26— Reimagining work: Using metaphors to envision the future
21:16— The mistake of relying on predictions and trends 
23:20— The evolution of life's priorities: From objects to relationships
26:10— The power of reframing: Transforming challenges into opportunities
28:12— The science behind optimism and the benefits of gratitude 
31:08—How can people follow you and continue learning from you?
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Additional Resources:
Personal website: www.frederikgpferdt.com
Link to book: What's Next Is Now: How to Live Future Ready
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/fgpferdt/
Instagram: www.instagram.com/frederikgpferdt/

Thank you to our guest. Thank you to our executive producer, Karina Reyes, our editor, Zach Ness, and the rest of the team. If you like what you heard, please follow, download, and subscribe. I'm your host, Kaihan Krippendorff. Thank you for listening.

Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

Brian Evergreen, author of Autonomous Transformation: Creating a More Human Future in the Era of Artificial Intelligence, named a Next Big Idea “Must-Read” and for which Brian was shortlisted for the 2023 Thinkers50 Breakthrough Idea Award.  

Building on his experiences working at Accenture, Amazon Web Services, and Microsoft, Brian advises and speaks to organizations around the world, guest lectures at Purdue University and the Kellogg School of Management, sharing the unconventional and innovative methods and frameworks he developed leading and advising Digital Transformation initiatives at many of the world's most valuable companies. There are very few people in the world who has had as much experience of Brian facilitating strategic conversations that lead to big, breakthrough ideas. 

At the core of Brian’s ideas is that in this age of accelerated AI, there is not only room for—but a dire need for human reasoning to remain a core component of business strategy in what he calls “autonomous transformation,” which contrast with and complements what we all call digital transformation.  

In this podcast, he shares: 

• The differences between transformation, reformation and creation — and when each is best employed given the presence of key criteria 
• His "reason-driven Framework," which in contrast to data-driven frameworks, allow the space and opportunity for human experimentation, learning, and innovation 
• The critical difference between digital transformation (moving from analog to digital) and autonomous transformation, which encompasses systems that autonomously handle processes and make decisions, emphasizing that transformation should create value, not just imply digital changes

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Episode Timeline:
00:00—Highlight from today's episode
1:09—Introducing Brian + the topic of today’s episode
2:56—If you really know me, you know that...
3:29— How chess shaped Brian's approach to strategy
04:49— Defining strategy: a decision tree framework
05:56— Challenges of strategy implementation in organizations 
06:58— Reformation vs. transformation, the key differences
09:17— Knowing when to build from scratch
11:24— Reason driven framework for strategic decision making
14:16—  Data vs. reason: Why reason driven decision making is crucial 
24:22— Steps of the reason-driven framework
28:48— Digital vs. autonomous transformation
33:43—Solving for the future
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Additional Resources:
Link to personal website: www.brianevergreen.com
Link to book: Autonomous Transformation: Creating a More Human Future in the Era of Artificial Intelligence
LinkedIn:  www.linkedin.com/in/brianevergreen/

Thank you to our guest. Thank you to our executive producer, Karina Reyes, our editor, Zach Ness, and the rest of the team. If you like what you heard, please follow, download, and subscribe. I'm your host, Kaihan Krippendorff. Thank you for listening.

Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

Cristina Alaimo, is the Assistant Professor of Digital Economy and Society at Guido Carli University in Rome, Italy and soon to be Associate Professor at ESSEC Business School in France.  

Her research focuses on innovation catalyzed by data-based services and the consequences it has on organizations and society. Cristina also studies the broader ecosystem of data exchanges in which digital platforms are embedded and how these new platform ecosystems emerge and evolve. 

In her recently released book, DATA RULES: Reinventing the Market Economy, Cristina and her co-author Jannis Kallinikos, dive deep into the unprecedented social and economic restructuring brought about by data. 

In this episode, we discuss: 

• The fascinating history and role of data in our society—well before even the tech boom, with its origins in writing itself 
• How many of the social constructions that we know of, even our own digital identities, are shaped and created by data 
• The four functions of data—and how business ecosystems are evolving the traditional functions to create new business models and value chains 
• What business leaders need to know to seize the new opportunities the evolution of data is creating, even breaking out of the traditional concepts of industries of business as we know it today 

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Episode Timeline:
00:00—Highlight from today's episode
1:01—Introducing Cristina + the topic of today’s episode
2:55—If you really know me, you know that...
3:48—What's your definition of strategy?
04:52—The historical function of data
08:40—The link between data and institutions 
11:55—The interrelation between data and writing
15:12—The four functions of data
18:08—The data making process
22:43—Data's impact on ecosystems and platforms 
26:38—TripAdvisor case study
30:25—Redefining industry concepts
33:02—Future of competitive advantage 
37:44—How can people follow you and continue learning from you?
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Additional Resources:
Link to book: DATA RULES: Reinventing the Market Economy
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cristinaalaimo/
X: https://x.com/cristina_alaimo

Thank you to our guest. Thank you to our executive producer, Karina Reyes, our editor, Zach Ness, and the rest of the team. If you like what you heard, please follow, download, and subscribe. I'm your host, Kaihan Krippendorff. Thank you for listening.

Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

Stephan Meier, is Chair of the Management Division and the James P. Gorman Professor of Business Strategy at Columbia Business School whose work lies at the intersection of behavioral economics, business strategy, and the future of work. 

Customer-centricity has long been at the forefront of conversations that involve optimizing profit, with the idea that happy customers lead to increased revenues. But a new theory is quickly gaining traction—that employee-centricity is just as important. 

Stephen is a big advocate for the idea that happy employees not only boost company morale, but have a clear direct correlation on the bottom line. In his upcoming October 2024 book, The Employee Advantage: How Putting Workers First Helps Business Thrive, he collects fascinating case studies and insights from his research to showcase how businesses that invest in employee experience often outperform others.  
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In this conversation, we discuss key points from his book, including: 

• How you can adapt customer-centricity frameworks and tools to improve your employee experience 
• The four key motivators in the workplace beyond compensation that have an enormous impact on performance 
• How technology can both help and hinder the workplace—and how you can use it to optimize the employee experience 

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Episode Timeline:
00:00—Highlight from today's episode
1:26—Introducing Stephan+ the topic of today’s episode
2:59—If you really know me, you know that...
5:34—What's your definition of strategy?
06:06—The thesis of Stephan's book
08:38—Clarifying employee value creation 
09:58—Employees as the new customer  
16:13—How companies should see their employees
19:49—Are companies really prioritizing employees? 
22:03—Common misconceptions about employee motivation 
27:47—Exemplary employee-centric companies 
32:20—How can people follow you and continue learning from you?
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Additional Resources:
Personal site: www.stephanmeier.com
Link to book: The Employee Advantage: How Putting Workers First Helps Business Thrive
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephan-meier-5297082/
X: https://x.com/meier_steph?lang=en

Thank you to our guest. Thank you to our executive producer, Karina Reyes, our editor, Zach Ness, and the rest of the team. If you like what you heard, please follow, download, and subscribe. I'm your host, Kaihan Krippendorff. Thank you for listening.

Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

The world has undergone a transformation in the past century, as the industrial revolution turned many luxuries into everyday commodities. Then, at the turn of the century, the advent of the internet compounded this supply and demand shift. Now, we are entering yet again a new era as we see technology once again propel us into a new radical shift we call: Proximity.  

Full disclosure, in this episode, we follow a different format to present the findings a book I co-authored with Rob Wolcott, cofounder and chair of The World Innovation Network (TWIN Global). He came up with the idea years ago. He I spent the last three years compiling research and case studies on the topic into our recently released book: Proximity: How Coming Breakthroughs in Just-in-Time Transform Business, Society, and Daily Life. 

In this discussion, Rob and I are honored to be joined by guest host Stuart Crainer, co-founder of Thinkers50, the definitive listing of the world's top 50 management thinkers. Rob is the cofounder and chair of The World Innovation Network (TWIN Global) and adjunct professor of innovation at the Booth School of Business, University of Chicago. 

Together, we lay out the key discoveries Rob and I made as we interviewed innovators, business leaders, and other experts seeking to piece together the facets of the concept of proximity: the idea that digital technologies are pushing the production and provision of value ever closer to the moment of demand in time and space.

What we discovered is a monumental shift in how businesses approach value creation. Rather than following the typical value creation chain that has so long prevailed the concept of business and industries, businesses are now meeting customers by creating value at the moment it is needed. Not just when they need but actually where they need it.

The implications of this shift with change most, maybe every, area of life: the way we work, eat, heal, produce, power, defend, explore space. And the implications for businesses are profound as well, and we share what leaders need to know and act on now if they want to stay ahead of this curve that will likely upend every business industry as we know it. 

We hope you enjoy this special episode of Outthinkers.

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Episode Timeline:
00:00—Highlight from today's episode
0:33—Introducing the topic of today’s episode
4:25—If you really know me, you know that...
5:41—What's your definition of strategy?
6:36— What is Proximity? Unpacking the core concept
11:31— Praise for Procrastination: The counterintuitive logic of proximity
14:38—The Proximity revolution: Real-world examples and implications
17:20—How well is the Proximity concept understood in the business world
20:40—Proximity and AI
25:01— Overcoming obstacles
26:27— Proximity pioneers: Organizations leading the way
31:40— Just-in-time reimagined
32:46— Sustainability and Proximity 
36:04—Projecting proximity's timeline
38:40—Optimism and caution in the proximity era 

Thank you to our guest. Thank you to our executive producer, Karina Reyes, our editor, Zach Ness, and the rest of the team. If you like what you heard, please follow, download, and subscribe. I'm your host, Kaihan Krippendorff. Thank you for listening.

Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

Matt Beane, is an Assistant Professor in the Technology Management Program at the University of California, Santa Barbara. He has conducted extensive field research with robots and AI seeks to uncover systematic positive exceptions that we can use in the workforce. His award-winning research has been published in top management journals such as Administrative Science Quarterly and Harvard Business Review, and he has spoken on the TED stage.  Curiously enough, 2012 he was also selected as a “Human-Robot Interaction Pioneer.” 

Matt took a two-year hiatus from his PhD at MIT’s Sloan School of Management to help found and fund Humatics, a full-stack IoT startup.  All this is testament to his passion for bridging what he calls the “master-apprentice gap.”  In this discussion, we dive deep into topics from his book, The Skill Code: How to Save Human Ability in an Age of Intelligent Machines.
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In this episode, Matt shares: 

• His concept of “the skill code,”— and the 3 Cs needed to ensure skills are able to transfer between humans
• The setbacks organizations could face if they don’t address the widening gap that is preventing upcoming workers from gaining skills from more experience workers. Imagine what happens if – doctors, lawyers, engineers, chefs, and other apprenticeship-heavy professions are unable to build bench skills
• What science and psychology teach us about how humans have traditionally learned and developed
• The steps business leaders can take to ensure that this novice-expert gap remains manageable

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Episode Timeline:
00:00—Highlight from today's episode
1:13—Introducing Matt+ the topic of today’s episode
3:18—If you really know me, you know that...
5:07—What's your definition of strategy?
05:50—Matt shares what lead him to the subject his research and latest book 
11:20—Learning skills through a three-tiered approach: See one, do one, teach one
14:48— Defining skill vs knowledge
16:38—3 Cs: Challenge
21:35—3 Cs: Complexity 
23:42—3 Cs: Connection
28:48—The impact of AI on capability building
31:41— Organizational strategy for skill preservation
34:12—How can people follow you and continue learning from you?
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Additional Resources:
Personal site: www.mattbeane.com
Link to book: The Skill Code: How to Save Human Ability in an Age of Intelligent Machines
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattbeane
Twitter: https://x.com/mattbeane

Thank you to our guest. Thank you to our executive producer, Karina Reyes, our editor, Zach Ness, and the rest of the team. If you like what you heard, please follow, download, and subscribe. I'm your host, Kaihan Krippendorff. Thank you for listening.

Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

Christopher Marquis, the Sinyi Professor at the University of Cambridge Judge School of Business. Chris writes a regular column for Forbes and his work has appeared in the Boston Globe, Washington Post, Fortune, TIME, Foreign Policy, and Harvard Business Review. He is also author of Better Business: How the B Corp is Remaking Capitalism  and Mao and Markets,  which made the  Financial Times “Best Book of 2022,” list.

Christopher takes on topics that are, or should be, important for companies and society. In this episode, we dive into concepts from his newest book, The Profiteers: How Business Privatizes Profits and Socializes Costs

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In this episode, Christopher shares: 

• The underlying premise that drove him to write his new book—the fact that companies often pass on the hidden negative costs of their business onto society and the environment, while keeping the benefits and profits for themselves 
• Why this is changing now, thanks to broad systemic changes underway with investors, consumers, employees, and governments 
• Evidence that a group of pioneers taking actions to minimize their negative impacts and turning that into a competitive advantage 
• Upcoming policy changes that business strategists should keep top of mind, that will impact all businesses—and how jumping on this curve serves to potentially reward those who do 

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Episode Timeline:
00:00—Highlight from today's episode
1:19—Introducing Chris + the topic of today’s episode
3:05—Chis shares what lead him to the subject of his latest book
5:46—The cost of externalities
11:21—EU's CSRD policy, a seismic shift in corporate sustainability reporting
15:33—Regional competition and policy differences
19:51—Regenerative business models
26:48—Starting points for corporate strategists
28:53— How can people follow you and continue learning from you?
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Additional Resources:
Personal site: https://chrismarquis.com/
Link to book: The Profiteers How Business Privatizes Profits and Socializes Cost
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopher-marquis-3884834/
Twitter: https://x.com/Chris_Marquis_

Thank you to our guest. Thank you to our executive producer, Karina Reyes, our editor, Zach Ness, and the rest of the team. If you like what you heard, please follow, download, and subscribe. I'm your host, Kaihan Krippendorff. Thank you for listening.

Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

Bruce Vojak, is Managing Director of Breakthrough Innovation Advisors, LLC, and serves on the Advisory Board of Midtronics, Inc., JVA Partners, and the Board of Directors of Micron Industries Corporation, and is a Senior Fellow with The Conference Board.  Further, he has co-authored five book chapters—in addition to numerous peer-reviewed publications and conference presentations—on innovation. He is the author of No-Excuses Innovation: Strategies for Small- and Medium-Sized Mature Enterprises (published 2022) and Serial Innovators: How Individuals Create and Deliver Breakthrough Innovations in Mature Firms  from 2012.

Bruce was formerly the Dean and an Adjunct Professor in the top-ranked Grainger College of Engineering at the University of Illinois at Urbana‐Champaign. Earlier in his career, he was Director of Advanced Technology for Motorola’s non-semiconductor components business and was on the research staff at MIT Lincoln Laboratory. 

Bruce brings together real research with real-world practice, while taking a more human-view of innovation. Spanning a career at the intersection of business and technology, Bruce has experienced and explored innovation purposefully and variously.

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In this episode, Bruce shares: 

• The definition of innovation, how it relates to strategy 
• How successful innovators view organization politics and why this is important 
• The key characteristics of innovators seen from years of research, and what sets them apart from the rest 
• How innovators often see patterns others miss, and feel it is their "call of duty" to help an organization see and follow through on these ideas 
• What it takes to be a good manager of innovators—and how they can hold on to these innovators when not equipped to manage these unique individuals 

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Episode Timeline:
00:00—Highlight from today's episode
1:04—Introducing Bruce + the topic of today’s episode
2:57—If you really know me, you know that...
4:06—What's your definition of strategy?
7:13—What's your definition of innovation?
9:00— What sets serial innovators apart from others
14:12—What is a serial innovator, and the specific characteristics?
18:01—  Managing serial innovators effectively
19:35— Politics as part of the innovation process
21:02—  How serial innovators manage politics within an organization
22:30— Motivation for his "No Excuses-Innovation" book
24:40—  Book recommendation for strategists 
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Additional Resources:
Personal site: https://www.breakthrough-innovation-advisors.com/bruce-vojak/
Link to book: No-Excuses Innovation: Strategies for Small- and Medium-Sized Mature Enterprises
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bvojak/

Thank you to our guest. Thank you to our executive producer, Karina Reyes, our editor, Zach Ness, and the rest of the team. If you like

Thank you to our guest. Thank you to our executive producer, Karina Reyes, our editor, Zach Ness, and the rest of the team. If you like what you heard, please follow, download, and subscribe. I'm your host, Kaihan Krippendorff. Thank you for listening.

Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

Min Jung  is a vice director of the Center for Synaptic Brain Dysfunctions at the Institute for Basic Science in South Korea and a professor in the Department of Biological Sciences at the Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology. He is also the author of A Brain for Innovation: The Neuroscience of Imagination and Abstract Thinking. 

Min’s work gives us scientific insights into the actual foundation working of the brain, specifically how the brain generates innovative ideas. Min believes that everyone has an ability to be creative.

In this discussion, we dive deep into topics from his book, A Brain for Innovation: The Neuroscience of Imagination and Abstract Thinking seeking to uncover what it takes to do just that.

In this episode, Min shares with us: 

• The many complex, dynamic brain networks and how they function and interact in order to create abstract thinking and creativity 
• His concept of the "3 B's" of creativity, the three states that provide space for innovative ideas to emerge in your brain 
• How organizations can foster environments that facilitate creativity  
• The fascinating critical part “place cells,” neurons in the hippocampus, can play in shaping how we think, remember, organize, and enable organizational transformation

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Episode Timeline:
00:00—Highlight from today's episode
1:16—Introducing Min + the topic of today’s episode
4:00—If you really know me, you know that...
5:38—What's your definition of strategy?
7:07—Understanding the importance of brain networks
8:16—Min's take on abstract thinking
9:59—Min's object recognition neural network graph
11:08— The default mode network in a relaxed state
13:39—How our brains attaches value to things
14:53—The "3 Bs" for creativity
16:41— Finding the right work-relaxation balance
17:43— Comparing brain and organizational idea generation
20:16— The role of place cells in humans and animals
23:12— Using spatial metaphors in strategy to break down thinking
24:33— Tapping into your natural creativity
25:58—How can people follow you and continue learning from you?
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Additional Resources:
Book site:  A Brain for Innovation: The Neuroscience of Imagination and Abstract Thinking

Thank you to our guest. Thank you to our executive producer, Karina Reyes, our editor, Zach Ness, and the rest of the team. If you like what you heard, please follow, download, and subscribe. I'm your host, Kaihan Krippendorff. Thank you for listening.

Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast