Most org design conversations get forced through a narrow funnel: prove the ROI, justify the spend, make the numbers work. But if work is something most people can’t opt out of—and where we spend a huge chunk of our attention and waking lives—then “it pays off” feels like a painfully small standard.

This week, Rodney and Sam explore the ethical case for organizational design. They move beyond spreadsheets and profit metrics to ask bigger questions about leadership, power, transparency, compensation, and the human impact of broken systems. What do organizations owe the people who work inside them? Is better workplace design a moral responsibility — not just a financial strategy?

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Mentioned references:

00:00 Check-In: What’s your energy like right now?

08:16 A “good” experience is the exception rather than the rule

10:06 Protecting yourself isn’t “selling out”

15:41 Spending our attention on worthy things

21:35 Leadership vs. worker power disparity is broken

27:31 Ethically designed companies never are publicly traded

31:07 Principles and values of ethical orgs

40:35 Joy at work shouldn’t be nickled and dimed

44:35 Idea 1: Don’t accept performative change initiatives

47:17 Idea 2: Audit your existing principles and values

48:35 Idea 3: Don’t let leadership gaslight you into conforming

50:33 Wrap up: Leave us a review and share the show with a friend

Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

When the people at the center of power feel well-served by the current system, how do you create change? This week’s listener question gets at a frustrating reality: sometimes the OS is optimized for the very people you’d need to convince. The business is growing, shareholders are happy, and the executives at the top don’t feel the friction you’re experiencing. Add geography, hierarchy, and distance from decision-makers, and it can feel impossible to generate momentum from the edges.

In this mini AUA episode, Rodney and Sam get honest about what’s actually within your control, and when it’s worth accepting that you won’t move the center—and when it’s smarter to redirect your energy toward the surface area you can influence.

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Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Most organizations are built to do exactly what they do…and that’s the problem. When a core business starts to decay due to disruption, automation, or shifting customer demand, the instinct is to double down on efficiency, cost cutting, and short-term fixes. But that focus often crowds out the harder, riskier work of building what comes next. Nearly a decade ago, Dual Transformation offered a clear and compelling framework for this dilemma, yet nobody seems to be actually doing it.

In this episode, Rodney Evans and Sam Spurlin unpack why dual transformations are so rare, why it’s even harder than it sounds, and why it matters more than ever in an AI-shaped economy. They dig into the tensions between “business A” (the core) and “business B” (the future), the funding and operating system traps that kill new growth, and practical moves leaders and internal change agents can make to actually pull of two transformations at once instead of just talking about it.

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Mentioned references:

00:00 Intro + Check-In: What’s some type two fun you’ve had recently?

04:29 What is Dual Transformation and why now?

13:27 Sounds simple, yet deceptively hard

21:05 The 3 crisis points of a dual transformation

27:12 Recognizing when you’re in a dying business

30:57 Engineering a dual transformation from the inside out

37:24 Navigating the emotions of the dying business

39:14 Idea 1: Weekly feedback routines with customers

43:07 Idea 2: Import as little as possible from the old company

45:59 Idea 3: Write the manifesto for both businesses

47:29 Bonus Idea: Read Dual Transformation!

48:26 Wrap up

Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

While many organizations claim they’re cutting red tape, the underlying drivers often look more like cost pressure, market correction, or AI anxiety dressed up as structural reform. In this mini episode, Rodney and Sam unpack the recent wave of layoffs framed as efforts to “reduce bureaucracy”—and why that explanation deserves some skepticism.

They explore when reducing org depth can be the right move, why boom-and-bust hiring cycles create hidden work, and what companies would actually do differently if bureaucracy reduction were the real goal.

Mentioned references:

Got a work question like this one you'd like us to answer? Email us at [email protected]

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Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Want to build skills like this to help your team succeed in 2026? ⁠Learn about our Capability Catalyst program⁠.

Enterprise change is getting harder, not easier—and in 2026, “having the right ideas” isn’t enough to move transformation. You need personal capability that lets you see what’s really happening, design with real users, and move groups through hard conversations without turning everything into theater. Good intentions and smart frameworks may have worked in the past, but what got us here won’t get us where we need to go.

In this episode, Rodney and Sam dive deep on the three most useful transformation enabling skills for the coming year, and share practical ways for how to level up your capability toolkit to thrive in our current pace of change.

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Mentioned references:

00:00 Intro + Check-In: What’s good right now?

04:09 The Pattern

05:49 Skill 1: Metacognitive awareness

10:16 Reframing your interactions and experiences

15:57 Building your metacognition skills

21:05 Skill 2: User-Centered Design and Feedback

28:45 User feedback is not a one time activity

34:34 Skill 3: Expert facilitation

39:39 Real skilled facilitation is mostly invisible

43:03 Lots of work happens outside the room

50:08 Leveling up as a facilitator

52:30 Wrap up: Leave the show a review and share with a friend

Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Starting a company with a blank slate sounds like a dream—but it’s also a trap. In this mini episode, Rodney and Sam respond to a listener question about how to design an organizational operating system from scratch, without inheriting all the baggage of traditional management.

They argue for resisting the urge to over-design early, letting real tension (not theory) drive structure, and focusing on a few foundational practices that scale. From operating rhythms and Kanban boards to experimentation and “sky sensing,” this episode breaks down what’s actually worth putting in place early—and what’s better left until it hurts.

Mentioned references:

Schedule a Sky Session with us!

Got a work question like this one you'd like us to answer? Email us at [email protected]

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Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Enterprise AI adoption is still stuck in the teens and the gap between the hype and the reality is getting harder to ignore. People are finding pockets of productivity, but they’re often keeping the gains to themselves, worried that “using AI well” is just speed-running their way into a layoff. Meanwhile, many leaders treat it like another piece of software without touching the messier truth: AI changes how work actually happens, and it doesn’t care about your org chart, your approval chains, or your performance theater.

In this episode, Rodney sits down with Section CEO Greg Shove to name what’s really blocking adoption and what it takes to break through. They talk about AI as “co-intelligence”, why most “AI layoffs” are PR cover, and the non-negotiables for real transformation. They also get into how to build a robust AI strategy for 2026, Section’s own AI disruption, and why the next era may be dominated by super companies built around small human teams + a fleet of agents.

Learn more about Greg:

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Mentioned references:

00:00 Intro + Check-In: What’s something happening in the AI hype cycle that drives you nuts right now?

03:21 Enterprise AI adoption stall out

08:58 AI as truth serum for lies in your company

11:49 Required ingredients for real AI transformation

19:04 Balancing risk with AI usage in startups and large enterprise

24:10 “Head of AI” roles are an uphill battle

27:48 First principles for an AI-lead organization

30:10 Disrupting your business model with AI and dual transformation

35:29 Greg and Section disrupting themselves with AI

37:44 Role of leadership in an AI future

44:40 Future of companies and careers

47:54 Role of companies in future of society

52:07 Wrap up: Leave us a review and share the show with a coworker!

Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Leaders often ask for a clear, immediate ROI on org design and transformation work—but that question can derail the conversation before it even starts. When ROI is framed purely as short-term financial return, it misses how organizations actually change and improve over time.

In this mini Ask Us Anything episode, Rodney and Sam unpack how to approach ROI conversations in org design more productively. They explore why separate “transformation metrics” usually miss the point, how to anchor ROI to what leaders already care about, and why leading indicators like decision speed, cycle time, and meeting effectiveness matter more than tidy quarterly savings.

Mentioned references:

Got a work question like this one you'd like us to answer? Email us at [email protected]

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Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

As 2025 comes to a close, AI hype is still everywhere, workers are feeling the strain of constant change, and organizations are quietly reorganizing who (or what) does the work. We’re ending the year with some big questions: What happens to the “middle” of organizations? How do humans fit into increasingly AI-driven systems? And where does real value—human and otherwise—get created?

With only a few days left until the new year, Rodney Evans and Sam Spurlin look ahead to how AI, jobs, and organizational life will shift in 2026—from real white-collar displacement and the rise of internal org-design teams to employees quietly choosing AI over difficult human teammates.

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Mentioned references:

00:00 Intro + Check-In: What’s a reflection you have on 2025?

03:44 Prediction 1: Hype cycle around AGI will break

05:03 Prediction 2: 2026 is tipping point for white collar AI job disruption

09:53 Prediction 3: Demand for internal OD teams increases

12:11 Prediction 4: People will start choosing AI over their coworkers for collab

15:04 Prediction 5: Divide between legacy orgs and AI-native micro orgs will grow

17:48 Prediction 6: New premium on human-crafted products and experience

21:57 Wrap up: Leave us a review, and see you in 2026

Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Many people who want to work in organizational change hit the same question: is it better to do this work from inside an organization, or from the outside as a consultant?

Hear the episode this question was in response to: AWWTR Ep. 28

Got a work question like this one you'd like us to answer? Email us at [email protected]

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Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

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Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.