Outthinkers

JoAnn Garbin is a sustainability and technology innovator with a 25-year track record of leading teams “from nothing to something to scale,” creating numerous innovative products and profitable businesses. Her career predates the concept of climate change, and her long career in sustainability combined with her tenure at Microsoft as Director of Innovation in Microsoft’s cloud business, have given her ample insight, into how innovation can and should be a repeatable scalable process. 

In this episode, we discuss highlights from The Insider’s Guide to Innovation at Microsoft, a book co-written between Joann and Dean Carignan, who among his long and rich career has spent 20 years at Microsoft, guiding new businesses—including the early internet division, Xbox, and multiple AI efforts—through the critical growth phases to their first billion dollars in revenue. More than just insights and case studies into how Microsoft has woven innovation into the fabric of their ecosystem, Joann shares with us a proven framework to innovation.  

In this podcast, we discuss:

• How innovation cycles mirror nature’s adaptative processes—constantly regenerating from the ashes, much like companies must continually innovate to curtail disruption 
• A breakdown of the four innovation patterns that each provide specific tools and strategies for effective innovation 
• How innovation is—contrary to common belief—beyond technology, able to happen through business models, customer experience, and non-tech-oriented areas 
• Some fascinating insider examples of how Microsoft learned critical lessons through successes and failures in various products lines—like the Xbox, Bing, and more

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Episode Timeline:
00:00—Highlight from today's episode
01:28—Introducing JoAnn+ the topic of today’s episode
03:35—If you really know me, you know that...
05:12—What is your definition of strategy?
07:01—Why the book isn’t just about Microsoft 
09:10—The four patterns of innovation 
10:31—JoAnn's background in sustainability
13:01—The meaning of regenerative sustainability? 
13:50—Is having a bold goal necessary for innovation
16:13—Pattern I: Innovating every day means
17:52—How to innovate every day in practice
20:35—Pattern II: Innovating over the years 
23:55—Pattern III: Innovating with everyone
26:54—An example of innovating with everyone 
29:05—Enabling boundary crossers to connect 
32:04—Pattern IV: Innovating beyond technology 
33:38—Going against conventional wisdom 
36:22—Defining BXT (business experience technology)
37:50—How can people follow you and continue learning from you?__________________________________________________________________
Additional Resources:
Personal website: www.joanngarbin.com
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/joanngarbin
Link to book: The Insider’s Guide to Innovation at Microsoft

 Peter Compo is the author of The Emergent Approach to Strategy: Adaptive Design & Execution. Unlike many strategists from universities and consulting firms, Compo builds his groundbreaking work first as a musician and a scientist (he holds a doctorate in Chemical Engineering), and then gained experience in the “corporate trenches” at DuPont.
 
Hired as a research scientist, he held leadership positions in product, marketing, supply chain, and business management where he served as the Director of DuPont Ventures, focusing on new business ventures, and later as the Director of Corporate Integrated Business Planning, where he was responsible for overseeing the company's strategic planning processes. His varied background and passions inspired his unique perspective that business—particularly business strategy—often mirrors science and music, inspiring him to write The Emergent Approach. 

Peter’s mission is to create a new level of clarity on strategy by debunking the idea that strategy is cascading and top-down. Instead, his concept of “emergent” strategy proposes that strategic planning is agile, constantly transforming as new information and situations present themselves.

In this podcast, we discuss:

• How strategy, similarly to evolution and scientific breakthroughs, isn’t just selecting what works, but rather a series of discarding what doesn’t work  
• How execution isn't just about following a list and getting good results — but rather adhering to a strategy until new information proves the hypothesis or framework is wrong
• How leaders can help facilitate and guide strategic direction across teams and functions without putting too many constraints that hinder performance 
• A preview of techniques and tools from his book that leaders can apply to jumpstart the emergent approach in defining your strategy

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Episode Timeline:
00:00—Highlight from today's episode
01:23—Introducing Peter + the topic of today’s episode
04:30—If you really know me, you know that...
06:20—What is your definition of strategy?
07:44—Can two organizations with the same goals have different strategies?
08:51—The meaning of "Emergent"
09:40—How did your background in music and science lead you to strategy?
13:22—Peter's musical background
14:25—Strategy mirroring music: structure precedes improvisation
17:24—Strategy is more than just goals and execution
18:26—Trade-offs between departments require strategic guidance 
23:05—Strategy helps resolve conflicts between business functions 
27:22—Lessons from sports: the role of strategy in team coordination
31:32—Strategic adaptation and innovation
33:37—Entrepreneurs and scientists share an obsession with solving bottlenecks 
35:34—Strategy should focus on internalization 
38:24—Five disqualifiers to test if you really have a strategy
42:35—How can people follow you and continue learning from you?__________________________________________________________________________
Additional Resources:
Personal website: https://emergentapproach.com/
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/petercompo/
Link to book: The Emergent Approach to Strategy

 Antonio Nieto-Rodriguez is author of Powered by Projects, Leading Organizations in the Transformation Age, the Harvard Business Review Project Management Handbook, the featured HBR article The Project Economy Has Arrived, as well as five other books. Antonio coined the concept "the Project Economy," on which his book is based. His research and global impact have been recognized and included in the top 50 most influential management thought leaders by Thinkers50. He is the fellow and Former Chairman of the Project Management Institute, currently VP of the APM Association, he is the creator of the Brightline Initiative, founder of Projects&Co, and co-founder of the Strategy Implementation Institute. 

Antonio is a prominent advocate of the idea that our business model paradigms are quickly changing—the future of work is the Project Economy, the idea that instead of companies based on hierarchy and operations, they will be dominated by project-driven teams and environments. 

This premise has a profound impact on every area of a business—and strategy, management and every department of each enterprise will need to adapt accordingly.

In this episode we discuss: 

• How digitalization and the acceleration of AI has compounded this quick change from a focus on operations and repetitive work to quick execution, project-driven teams 
• How by 2030, 70% of work will be project-based work, fundamentally changing how businesses are structured and managed. 
• How the era of hierarchal org structure hinders growth in this new era, as successful project execution depends on co-creation and stakeholder buy-in 
• How the role of the PMO will change from being operations-driven to more strategic, and how you can best support these roles in the transition 

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Episode Timeline:

00:00—Highlight from today's episode
01:31—Introducing Antonio + the topic of today’s episode
04:14—If you really know me, you know that...
05:03—What is your definition of strategy?
06:12—The difference between strategy and execution
07:40—Understanding the project economy
10:43—The shift from operations to projects in organizations
12:18—The cross-functional nature of projects
14:44—The future of the PMO office
17:20—Creating intensity in organizations
20:36—Common mistakes leaders make in executing strategy
24:06—Motivation for writing "Powered by projects" 
26:36—Key insights from Antonio’s leadership sessions 
28:30—How can people follow you and continue learning from you? ______________________________________________________________________________________
Additional Resources:

Personal website: antonionietorodriguez.com
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/antonionietorodriguez
Link to book: Powered by Projects

Devin DeCiantis is the co-author, with Ivan Lansberg, of the 2024 book THE ENDURING ENTERPRISE: How Family Businesses Thrive in Turbulent Condition. He is a Managing Partner at Lansberg Gersick Advisors (LGA), an advisory and educational partner trusted by many of the world’s largest family enterprises.

 Devin’s work and focus is on the financial, organizational, and strategic aspects of this business structure—the family enterprise. Devin brings his background in corporate strategy, economic analysis and investment banking to his work with these family businesses, family offices and family foundations.  

Several unique attributes family businesses set them apart from the various corporate forms, public or private, corporations or LLCs or partnership. Many of these differences build a natural immunity and competitive advantage of sorts that traditional corporations struggle to build.  

In this episode, we discuss some the key findings in his book, including:  

• What enduring lessons family businesses can teach regular corporations about planning for not just quarters, but quarter-centuries 
• The unique advantages—and weaknesses—of family businesses, whose longevity often span decades, or even centuries 
• The unique role family businesses play in economies, especially in markets like South Asia, East Asia, and Latin America 
• The 7 stabilizing strategies that these businesses employ effectively, as they often are built amidst emerging and frontier economies where basic infrastructure and resources are often lacking 

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Episode Timeline:

00:00—Highlight from today's episode
01:31—Introducing Devin + the topic of today’s episode
03:29—If you really know me, you know that...
04:20—What is your definition of strategy?
06:30—Historical context of family owned businesses
08:55—Examples of major family owned businesses
10:58—What motivated Devin to study family businesses
13:08—Family owned businesses in more volatile environments
16:06—7 stabilizing strategies family owned businesses consistently deploy
17:51—Differentiation strategy
20:31—Resilience in family-owned enterprises
23:08—Modularity as core driver of growth and stability
26:33—How family owned businesses benefit from modularity
29:26—How non-family-owned organizations can leverage modularity 
31:24—Strategic redundancy in family owned businesses
33:44—How can people follow you and continue learning from you? 

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Additional Resources:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devindeciantis
Link to book: THE ENDURING ENTERPRISE

Sandra Matz is the David W. Zalaznick Associate Professor of Business at Columbia Business School, in New York, where she also serves as the Director of the Center for Advanced Technology and Human Performance. 

As a computational social scientist with a background in psychology and computer science, Sandra studies human behavior and preferences using a combination of big data analytics and traditional experimental methods. Her research, and the topic of this podcast, uncovers the hidden relationships between our digital lives and our psychology with the goal of helping businesses and individuals make better and more ethical decisions.  

We dive into some fascinating insights from her January 2025 book, MINDMASTERS: The Data-Driven Science of Predicting and Changing Human Behavior, exploring the concept she coined of “psychological targeting,” a discipline that reveals how our digital footprints expose intimate aspects of our psychology and can be used to shape decisions—from what we buy to how we vote.

In this podcast, we delve into this topic, discussing: 

• How digital technologies and AI are giving us unprecedented abilities to understand and target specific people in specific states
• The profound implications, for better or worse, of this capability
• Some exciting—and concerning—examples of what this might look like, from diagnosing mental health to crafting highly-personalized automated marketing campaigns 
• How this hyper-personalization and new AI has the potential to influence, change and even control our behaviors 
• What companies can learn from Apple’s “Evil Steve” test in designing products and experiences to safeguard future ethical misuse of data  
• A glimpse into what could be a solution to the ethical dilemma of the capabilities Sandra studies: federated learning—a new form of data modeling that protects the individual’s data while delivering high-quality insights 

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Episode Timeline:
00:00—Highlight from today's episode
01:26—Introducing Sandra+ the topic of today’s episode
03:48—If you really know me, you know that...
04:26—What is your definition of strategy?
05:10—The two steps of psychological targeting
06:05—What has changed in how psychological targeting is implemented? 
08:41—How can we differentiate extroverts from introverts? 
10:09—The manners in which psychological targeting can be intrusive
10:55—Replicating old-school communication online 
12:30—Dynamic personality states
15:52—What are 'good' applications of psychological targeting? 
18:19—How organizations can ensure they use psychological targeting ethically
20:40—Safe ways to collect data without compromising individual privacy
23:05—Can psychological targeting influence internal company behavior? 
25:42—How companies can align themselves with diverse individual identities
26:48—What skills and capabilities should organizations develop to adapt to AI-driven personalization?
26:26—How can people follow you and continue learning from you?

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Additional Resources:
Personal website: sandramatz.com
Link to book: MINDMASTERS
Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/sandra-matz

Ethan Mollick, is the Ralph J. Roberts Distinguished Faculty Scholar and Associate Professor at the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, where he studies the effects of artificial intelligence on work, entrepreneurship, and education. His academic research has been published in leading journals, and his work on AI is widely applied, leading him to be named one of TIME Magazine’s Most Influential People in Artificial Intelligence. Ethan also writes to a wider audience about AI, including in his book, Co-Intelligence, a New York Times bestseller. 

In addition to his research and teaching, Ethan is the Co-Director of the Generative AI Labs at Wharton, which build prototypes and conduct research to discover how AI can help humans thrive while mitigating risks. Prior to his time in academia, Ethan co-founded a startup company, and he advises numerous organizations. He received his PhD and MBA from MIT’s Sloan School of Management and his bachelor’s degree from Harvard University. 

 In this episode, we discuss:

• What people get wrong when people think about how AI will shape the workforce. 
• What he calls the 'Centaur versus Cyborg' approach—the misconception that work must be divided between humans and AI, rather than completed in unison.
• What preliminary studies, in the past few years between organizations like BCG, Harvard, and MIT, have to tell us about how AI powers human productivity and work itself.
•  What history teaches us about adopting new technologies like AI to maintain a competitive edge. 

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Episode Timeline:
00:00—Highlight from today's episode
01:07—Introducing Ethan+ the topic of today’s episode
03:04—If you really know me, you know that...
03:24—Ethan's background and journey into AI
04:53—What is your definition of strategy?
06:20—Common misconceptions about AI's impact on the workforce 
07:46—AI's capabilities compared to humans, particularly in creativity 
10:03—The best way to use AI for idea generation
10:37—AI's role in the different stages of strategy development 
13:12—The BCG study on AI's impact on consulting work Bring Us Together
13:58—The concept of Agentive AI
14:48—Lessons from past general purpose technology adoptions
16:33— The need for organizational redesign in the age of AI
19:18—The impact of AI on profit distribution across industries
20:40—AI's role in identifying market needs and finding solutions
22:38—The importance of experimentation with AI
24:50—Addressing the issue of AI's unexplainable solutions
 
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Additional Resources:
Link to book: Co-Intelligence
Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/emollick
Substack: @oneusefulthing
X: emollick

Andrew Hill, is senior business writer at the Financial Times and consulting editor, Financial Times Live. He is author of Ruskinland (2019), about the enduring influence of Victorian thinker John Ruskin and Leadership in the Headlines, a collection of Andrew’s his columns.

We were quite lucky to be able to corral Andrew to have a conversation with us, and I'd be remiss not to preface this podcast by pointing out that rather than our typical format of diving into one author's ideas, framework and thinking around business trends, in this episode, we get a chance to glean insights multiple books and from his experiencing curating the best business books of the year for the Financial Times. 

In this episode, we journey through this year's FT and Schroders Business Book of the Year 2024, getting an "insider look" into the year’s roundup. We also get to explore how the best business book lists has evolved over the years and what this means for the present and future of business.  

Andrew’s long tenure made for an interesting conversation into more niche topics, leading even to what John Ruskin—a Victorian Polymath from the 1800s—would have thought of particular trends highlighted in this collection of books in the modern era.  

In this podcast, we discuss: 

• Has the purpose of the coporation changed? Should we move beyond being purely profit-motivated? 
• Whether the relentless pursuit of economic growth is sustainable or even desirable, given environmental and social constraints 
• Could tribalism, which is often seen as divisive, be a force for collaboration and innovation and unity? 
• How the increase in human longevity may require us to rethink life stages and adopt a 'multi-stage life' model, blending careers, education, and leisure throughout a lifetime 
• Andrew's own journey at the Financial Times, and how the Best Business Books list was established and has evolved over time. 

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Episode Timeline:
00:00—Highlight from today's episode
01:26—Introducing Andrew + the topic of today’s episode
03:45—If you really know me, you know that...
05:31—What is your definition of strategy?
06:52—History and purpose of the FT Business Book of the Year Awards 
08:16— Criteria and process for selecting the books 
11:36— Comparing 2024 submissions with previous years and emerging trends 
16:20— Discussion of The Corporation in the Twenty-First Century  
17:58— Navigating the ESG debate and long-term thinking 
21:41—Discussion of Tribal: How the Cultural Instincts That Divide Us Can Help Bring Us Together
24:32—  Andrew Hill highlights Andrew Scott's insights into living and thriving in a longer lifespan
27:48— Discussion of Growth: A Reckoning  
31:02— Connecting the themes and a reflection on John Ruskin's perspective   
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Additional Resources:
Link to book: Ruskinland
Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/andrewtghill
X: https://x.com/andrewtghill

Dr. Marcus Collins is an award-winning marketer and cultural translator, the former chief strategy officer at Wieden+Kennedy, New York, and a marketing professor at the Ross School of Business, University of Michigan. 

Marcus knows how to build an enthusiastic culture around brands and products  and services. He ran digital strategy for the pop star Beyoncé, worked on iTunes + Nike sports music initiatives at Apple, including Beats by Dr. Dre. He is an inductee into the American Advertising Federation’s Advertising Hall of Achievement and a recipient of the Thinkers50 Radar Distinguished Achievement Award for the idea most likely to shape the future of business management. His strategies and creative contributions have led to the launch and success of McDonald’s cultural resurgence, Google’s “Real Tone” technology, and the “Made In America” music festival.

Marcus’ work centers squarely that linkage between brand and culture. In this podcast, we dive deep into highlights from his best-selling book, For The Culture: The Power Behind What We Buy, What We Do, and Who We Want to Be. 

 We discuss: 

• The impact of culture on consumption, and how businesses can leverage this to influence behaviors 
• How people align behaviors with self-identity—making ideological alignment a key factor in brand adoption (think Apple, Nike) 
• Some key tactics—such as targeting fringe groups to create network effects that impact behaviors organically—to reach more audiences 
• The role that beliefs, artifacts, language, and behaviors play in shaping culture 

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Episode Timeline:
00:00—Highlight from today's episode
00:49—Introducing Marcus + the topic of today’s episode
03:45—What's the definition of culture?
05:00—How and why do brands like Nike use culture as a tool for their customer base
08:23—The three systems that define culture
12:58—How organizations can successfully build internal cultural identity
16:31—Creating an inclusive identity
20:11—Leveraging network effects and cultural production
23:32—Finding early adopters for cultural diffusion
25:05—Brand loyalty vs. transactional relationships
27:35—Building a cultural movement and avoiding the targeting trap
30:31—How can people follow you and continue learning from you?
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Additional Resources:
Personal website: www.marctothec.com
Link to book: For The Culture
Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/marctothec
X: marctothec

JP Pawliw-Fry, is world-renowned keynote speaker and New York Times bestselling author, also coaches Navy Seals, professional athletes and their coaches on high performance. 

As the founder of IHHP and an expert in culture, leadership, and emotional intelligence, JP has helped some of the most successful Fortune 100 companies unlock their potential by fostering courageous, high-performing cultures. 

JPs research has led him to help organizations cultivate high-performing cultures by enabling employees to overcome fear and feel valued, have a voice, and feel safe to take risks and be courageous. 

Based on his insights from his book, Performing Under Pressure, we discuss the intersection of culture with individual psychology to create high-performing cultures. 

In this episode, JP shares: 

• How pressure—and specifically cortisol—affects our perception, and why the idea that we work better under pressure...is a fallacy  
• His  theory of the 8% gap—how humans are programmed to perform well in 92% of cases, and then switch into “avoid or make a mess” mode when we get to the last 8% 
• How you as a leader and organization can enable people operate in that 8% 
• Why the right unit of measure of culture is not your organization or even your business unit, but your team (and the implications of this are for culture change)
• A interesting model for assessing culture  

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Episode Timeline:
00:00—Highlight from today's episode
00:58—Introducing JP+ the topic of today’s episode
02:53—If you really know me, you know that...
03:35—Defining strategy and the role of culture
05:52—Teaching as a catalyst for deeper learning and personal growth
08:12—How team culture is forged: the role of pressure and cortisol 
10:33—Understanding the last 8 percent
14:34—Bridging the gap between intent and action
17:46—The 8 percent culture map
19:58—Risk-taking and its connection to innovation and performance
22:30—Debunking myths about pressure and performance
26:15—How can people follow you and continue learning from you?
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Additional Resources:
Personal website: www.jppawliw-fry.com
Link to book: Performing Under Pressure
Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/jppawliwfry

Oscar Munoz, is the former CEO and Chairman of United Airlines. Oscar has led an accomplished career, spanning senior financial positions at Coca-Cola, Pepsico, AT&T, and US West. He also served as President and COO of North American rail-based transportation giant CSX Corp. He is also an independent trustee for Fidelity and a CNBC Contributor. 

A first-generation college graduate with degrees from the University of Southern California and Pepperdine, he was twice honored by Hispanic Business Magazine as one of its ‘100 Most Influential Hispanics’, honoring his journey as an immigrant who is the first person of Hispanic heritage to run a U.S. airline.  

In this conversation, we get to glean Oscar’s incredible insights from his Wall Street Journal best-selling memoir, Turnaround Time: Uniting an Airline and its Employees in the Friendly Skies. Having joined United, he had quite a task ahead of him, uniting the very fragmented workforce the airline faced at the time.  At the core of this immense turnaround was Oscar’s steadfast belief, that employees are as important as customers and shareholders in ensuring a business succeeds. 

In this podcast we discuss: 

• His journey throughout his career that brought him to United, and the insightful takeaways on leadership he gleaned along the way  
• His human-first approach in taking over the reins, which put each and every employee at the core of United transformation 
• The Core4 policy that emphasizes each employee operate by the four pillars of safe, caring, dependable and efficient, emphasizing the human part of customer service over business objectives 

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Episode Timeline:
00:00—Highlight from today's episode
01:14—Introducing Oscar+ the topic of today’s episode
04:45—If you really know me, you know that...
05:52— How Oscar's core values were shaped
07:32—What is your definition of strategy
13:11—Oscar gives insights into how he became CEO of United
19:22— Oscar steps into the CEO role
24:12— Economic factors shaping airline strategy
26:58—The Core4 policy as a strategy for growth
35:12— Bottom-up leadership: building a company from the employee level 
38:10—How can people follow you and continue learning from you?

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Additional Resources:
Personal website: oscar-munoz.com
Link to book: Turnaround Time
Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/oscarmunozua
Instagram: www.instagram.com/oscarmunoz