We’re excited to launch Valley of Depth, our new podcast taking the place of our beloved (formerly known as) Pathfinder (RIP) podcast.

Valley of Depth is about the technologies that matter—and the people building them. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.

In our inaugural episode, EP 001, we’re joined by Bryon Hargis, co-founder and CEO of Castelion, a venture-backed defense startup building affordable, mass-producible hypersonic missile systems for the U.S. and allied militaries. Castelion, founded by former SpaceX engineers, is taking a vertically integrated, fast-iteration approach to strike weapons—redefining how complex defense hardware is built.

In this episode, we unpack the story behind Castelion’s formation, the rising hypersonic threat from China, how startups are challenging the dominance of traditional primes—and much, much more…

• Chapters •

00:00 Intro

00:52 What inspired Bryan to leave SpaceX and start Castelion?

03:06 Non-nuclear deterrence

05:15 How SpaceX's culture influenced Castelion

07:44 Current team size

08:07 Cultural shift in defense hiring

10:04 Hypersonic missile advantages

12:03 US vs China capabilities

13:32 Tradeoffs vs exquisite systems

16:08 What's behind Bryon

18:02 Recent test results

20:54 Iterating safely

24:27 Castelion's DoD buyer

26:56 Navigating defense acquisition

32:11 Championing innovation

35:17 The Golden Dome concept

37:10 Requirements for Golden Dome

39:21 Startups vs primes race

40:49 Scaling missile production timeline

42:48 European market potential

44:19 Competition with defense primes

45:49 Capital requirements

47:26 Company vision

49:13 World impact if successful

50:48 Next milestones

52:14 Story behind the name

• Show notes •

Castelion’s website — https://www.castelion.com/

Bryon’s socials — https://x.com/hargsb 

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / 

https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/

Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/

Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/

• About us •

Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.

• Payload: www.payloadspace.com
• Ignition: www.ignition-news.com

Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

This week on Pathfinder, we’re joined by Ed Fyfe, founder of Ed Fyfe Design, a creative studio focused on branding and visual identity for space and hardware companies. With a background in agency work and a passion for the space industry, Ed has built a reputation for helping companies craft compelling brand identities that stand out in a crowded market.

In this episode, we explore the role of branding and design in the space industry and why it’s more than just a logo—it’s a strategic asset. We also discuss:

– Ed’s journey from working in consumer branding to launching his own space-focused design practice

– The importance of branding for space companies and when founders should prioritize it

– How SpaceX, NASA, and other major players have influenced space industry branding

– Common branding mistakes in the sector and how to avoid them

– The impact of branded hardware and creative storytelling in making space companies memorable

– The role of brand partnerships and what makes a good collaboration

And more…
 

• Chapters •

00:00 Intro

00:53 Ed's journey in design and branding

03:45 Why is branding and design important?

05:26 Why and when should a space company care about branding?

08:45 Why should a space company be thinking about branding?

10:38 Common branding mistakes space companies make

13:33 How much of brand identity is instinct?

15:38 How much of NASA's legacy influenced modern branding strategies

18:35 Historical branding elements in the space industry

21:56 How do you translate a company's vision into a brand identity?

33:34 EO industry's branding

39:43 Branded hardware

45:08 What are brand partnerships and do they matter?

50:14 Advice for space startups on beginning with a strong differentiated brand?

55:09 How to find, connect, and work with Ed
 

• Show notes •

Ed's website — https://edfyfedesign.com/

Ed's email — [email protected]

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes
 

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we’re joined by Jack Kuhr, Research Director at Payload, for a deep dive into one of the most closely watched companies in the space industry—SpaceX. We break down Payload’s latest analysis of SpaceX’s revenue, exploring how the company’s launch business and Starlink network are shaping its financial trajectory.

With our estimate of SpaceX’s 2024 revenue at $13.1 billion, this episode unpacks the numbers, key growth drivers, and what’s next. We also discuss:

• How Payload builds its SpaceX revenue model and refines estimates year after year
• The breakdown of SpaceX’s revenue across launch, Starlink, and other government contracts
• The rapid growth of Starlink—now at 4.6 million customers—and where the business is headed
• The future of Starship and its impact on Falcon 9, launch pricing, and industry competition
• Potential financial winners and losers when Starship becomes fully operational
• Speculative questions on SpaceX’s future, from a possible IPO to whether it can become the first trillion-dollar space company

And more…
 

• Chapters •

00:00 Intro

01:02 Jack's background

02:16 Constructing the SpaceX revenue estimates

06:17 How close our predictions were

08:01 Numbers rundown

10:02 SpaceX's percentage of global launch

10:45 SpaceX's price per launch

12:26 Does SpaceX need Starling to stay profitable?

13:55 When will Starship launch paying customers?

15:44 Starlink's next-gen satellites

18:19 Starlink's sub growth

20:38 Evolution of Starlink's pricing power

22:51 Where does SpaceX see the most growth?

25:12 Starlink's scalability and will it ever reach 50+ million customers?

29:03 SpaceX's other revenue generator

31:10 Will Starship make Falcon 9 obsolete?

32:37 Who loses when Starship becomes fully operational?

34:05 Will demand make up for the loss of cost per kilogram?

36:33 If SpaceX was a public company, how would investors react to these revenue figures?

39:19 Which SpaceX revenue stream could 10x?

41:03 Will SpaceX be the first trillion-dollar space company?
 

• Show notes •

Estimating SpaceX’s 2024 Revenue — https://payloadspace.com/estimating-spacexs-2024-revenue/

Jack’s socials — https://x.com/JackKuhr

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we’re joined by Matt Weinzierl, Chair of the MBA Program and Professor at Harvard Business School, and Brendan Rosseau, a member of the strategy team for launch at Blue Origin. Together, they’ve co-authored Space to Grow: Unlocking the Final Economic Frontier, a new book exploring the history, key players, and economic forces driving the momentum behind the space industry.

We discuss:

• The evolution of space economics and how government-private sector dynamics are changing
• The role of NASA as an anchor customer and whether the model has limits
• The rise of defense-focused pivots in commercial space companies
• Market competition and whether we’re seeing monopolization in space
• The economic case for lunar activity, space stations, and emerging industries
• The biggest risks that could stall commercial space progress

Their book launches on February 25, and this conversation is a must-listen for anyone interested in the economic forces shaping the future of space. You can order here!
 

• Chapters •

00:00 Intro

04:00 HBS’s Space Program

06:36 An introduction to “Space to Grow”

08:50 The shift from space to defense

13:02 What to expect from the book

16:56 Space competition or monopolization?

21:52 How classic economic principles apply to space

29:24 Are we transitioning away from NASA to anchor customers?

33:36 Does space have the right financing structures in place to build this industry?

38:47 Economic case for the Moon (Mars?)

44:16 Viability of space stations

48:22 What space industries have the best economic potential in the next couple decades?

52:32 Biggest impediment to the space industry

55:43 Key takeaways from “Space to Grow”

59:05 Matt and Brendan's favorite books

01:01:13 Where to find Matt and Brendan

• Show notes •

Space to Grow — https://www.amazon.com/Space-Grow-Unlocking-Economic-Frontier/

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes
 

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we’re joined by Jeremiah Pate, founder and CEO of Lunasonde, a company pioneering subsurface imaging from space. Lunasonde is developing technology to map the Earth’s underground, leveraging low-frequency synthetic aperture radar (SAR) to identify critical minerals and resources.

With two satellites launched and the first full-tech satellite in their constellation set to launch in July, this episode dives into how Lunasonde is reshaping resource exploration. We also discuss:

• Lunasonde’s founding story and Jeremiah’s inspiration for the company
• The fundamentals of subsurface SAR and how it differs from traditional radar technologies
• The company’s royalty-based business model and its potential to disrupt the critical minerals industry
• Real-world applications, including a breakthrough discovery of a previously unknown copper deposit
• The long-term vision for Lunasonde, including applications beyond Earth and mapping resources on the Moon and asteroids
• Insights on the challenges of scaling a space startup and navigating regulatory barriers

And more…

• Chapters •

00:00 Intro

03:04 What is SAR?

05:19 What is subsurface?

06:29 Critical minerals and Lunasonde's approach to the market

07:49 Size & demand

10:20 System architecture

11:28 Lunasonde's launches

12:02 Interpreting SAR data

13:27 SubSAR vs seismic imaging or ground penetrating radar

15:25 Environmental reasons behind building subSAR

16:22 How to ensure accuracy and reliability of the data

17:08 Corona satellites

20:48 How does Lunasonde convince ideal customers to embrace new technologies?

22:48 Examples of discovering new deposits

24:09 Lunasonde's competitors

26:02 Why do people think subSAR is impossible?

27:12 Going beyond the Earth

28:39 Other revenue models

30:27 Commercial vs government traction

31:27 Is Lunasonde looking for partnerships with space mining startups?

32:14 Scaling path

33:09 Funding

34:11 What keeps Jeremiah up at night?

34:52 Long-term vision

36:53 Could orgs like NASA use Lunasonde's capabilities for more intensive resource hunting missions?

38:28 What would Jeremiah like to change in the space industry?

40:51 If Jeremiah wasn't working at Lunasonde, where would he like to work?
 

• Show notes •

Lunasonde’s website — https://www.lunasonde.com/

Lunasonde’s socials — https://x.com/Lunasonde/

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes
 

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we’re joined by Awais Ahmed, founder and CEO of Pixxel, a company focused on developing hyperspectral imaging technology from space. Pixxel is developing the world’s first commercial hyperspectral satellite constellation, aiming to provide detailed insights into critical industries like agriculture, energy, and defense.

With the recent launch of three Firefly satellites—the first in Pixxel’s commercial fleet—this episode explores the company’s progress and vision for the future of Earth observation. We also discuss:

• Pixxel’s founding story and Awais’ background in satellite engineering and Hyperloop competitions
• The fundamentals of hyperspectral imaging and its advantages over traditional imaging methods
• Pixxel’s satellite constellation plans and how they’re balancing commercial and government markets
• The role of AI in satellite imaging and its potential to unlock new applications
• Awais’ take on the evolving Earth observation market and the challenges of scaling a space startup

And more…

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

00:48 - Impact of the new administration

02:32 - The story behind Pixxel

07:37 - Hyperspectral imaging

11:14 - How hyperspectral fits into the other types of satellite imaging

15:01 - How big is the satellite imaging market today?

17:30 - Government uses and advancements in hyperspectral

21:30 - Established commercial vs growing government markets

25:23 - What does Pixxel's constellation look like?

27:22 - Firefly vs Honeybee

28:03 - Customer experience at Pixxel

29:46 - AI's impact

33:44 - Most valuable part of the EO stack

36:05 - Starlink architecture and other EO businesses

37:49 - Pixxel's commercial traction

39:27 - What's a good margin profile?

42:01 - Valuation of public EO businesses

45:19 - Raising private capital in EO and fundraising plans

48:37 - Pixxel in 2035

50:22 - What else excites Awais besides EO?

51:29 - Pixxel's US office
 

• Show notes •

Pixxel’s website — https://www.pixxel.space/

Pixxel’s socials — https://x.com/PixxelSpace

Awais’ socials — https://x.com/awaisahmedna

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes
 

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we welcome Adam Draper, founder and managing director of Boost VC, an early-stage venture capital firm based in San Mateo, CA, specializing in pre-seed deals in deep tech, including space.

Boost VC’s track record includes early investments in space companies such as Varda, Starfish Space, and K2 Space. This episode explores the philosophy and strategy behind the firm’s approach to venture capital.

In addition, we discuss:

• Adam’s journey into VC and the Draper family legacy in the industry
• The firm’s commitment to backing “impossible” ideas and frontier technologies
• Insights into investing in deep tech, from identifying committed founders to understanding market risks
• The importance of storytelling and momentum in aerospace and defense startups
• Boost’s role in shaping the future of space industries, from lunar water mining to satellite servicing and space manufacturing
• Predictions for the future of space and deep tech, including the rise of biopharma in orbit and even the search for extraterrestrial life

And much more…

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

00:45 - Adam's background

07:48 - Boost VC

11:57 - How do you tell a founder has commitment?

14:04 - Signs of a founder with a real interest in space

17:54 - Making the case for the space market

20:51 - On the frontier

23:01 - Signs Adam looks for when he needs to step in and direct a company

28:20 - Investing in software vs. deep tech

30:43 - Early-stage pre-seed investing

38:07 - How would a founder differentiate themselves when it comes to fundraising?

43:25 - How to stay ahead of the curve with investing in space

48:36 - Craziest space deal Adam has invested in

51:46 - Adam's 2025 predictions

• Show notes •

Boost VC website — https://www.boost.vc/

Boost’s socials — https://x.com/BoostVC

Adam’s socials — https://x.com/AdamDraper

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes
 

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we’re ready to kick off 2025 with our first episode back from a brief holiday hiatus. Joining us is Stefan Powell, co-founder and CEO of Dawn Aerospace—a company focused on building scalable, sustainable space transportation solutions. After cutting their teeth with an in-space propulsion business, Dawn is now pushing the boundaries with Aurora, a rocket-powered plane that recently breaking the sound barrier (or Mach 1).

In this episode, we explore:

• From Student Rocket Club to Thriving Venture: Stefan’s background and how his early rocketry experiences shaped Dawn’s mission.
• Satellite Propulsion: Why Dawn’s safer, scalable alternatives to traditional satellite fuel are gaining traction in the market—and how they enable near-term revenue.
• Aurora’s Breakthrough Flight: Hitting Mach 1.1, testing supersonic aerodynamics, and the path toward suborbital flight capabilities.
• Hypersonics & Beyond: Why government R&D and military programs are pouring billions into hypersonics research—and how Dawn plans to help solve the “access-to-test-time” gap.
• Aircraft-Like Space Access: Dawn’s long-term vision for truly rapid, reusable, runway-based vehicles that could revolutionize launch operations.
• Building for the Future, One Step at a Time: How Stefan thinks about scaling, capital efficiency, and bridging near-term commercial opportunities with an ambitious roadmap.

…and much, more.

 

• Chapters •

00:00:00 - Intro

00:01:45 - Founding Dawn

00:06:33 - Core products

00:08:52 - Sustainability

00:11:25 - How Stefan got into the space industry

00:16:20 - What Stefan is developing with Aurora

00:19:09 - Recent flight

00:20:38 - Why is it important to go past Mach 1?

00:24:02 - Technical milestones before full orbital capabilities

00:26:43 - Hypersonics and building commercial ability

00:30:23 - Government customers

00:31:39 - Opportunities in hypersonic weapons?

00:33:02 - Payload capacity of first commercial launch vehicle

00:33:58 - Long-term scaling goals

00:37:15 - What is so difficult about building commercial hypersonic platforms?

00:42:05 - Most significant hurdles when it comes to scaling and manufacturing

00:44:32 - Building in New Zealand

00:46:38 - Revenue mix

00:48:15 - Capital efficiency

00:51:47 - Effect of Starship on the launch market

00:53:42 - What does success look like for Dawn over the next 10 years

00:56:25 - What Stefan has learned about being a CEO/Founder for 15 years

00:58:11 - Everything's on the table

• Show notes •

Dawn’s website — https://www.dawnaerospace.com/

Dawn’s socials — https://x.com/DawnAerospace

Stefan’s socials — https://x.com/Stefan__Powell

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Quick PSA: This is our final Pathfinder episode of 2024! We’re so grateful for your support and can’t wait to bring you more content and a new format next year. Stay tuned!

In our third and final episode of our special three-part Pathfinder series on lunar architecture—brought to you by our partners at Lockheed Martin—we’re focusing on how nuclear-enabled technologies will power and propel a sustainable future on the Moon. This episode ties together the insights from the series and offers a vision of how energy systems will enable humans to survive on the lunar surface and venture deeper into the solar system.

Joining us are Kerry Timmons, Senior Manager of Business Development at Lockheed Martin for Lunar Infrastructure, and Joe Miller, President of BWXT Advanced Technologies. Together, they share their perspective on the role nuclear power and propulsion play in supporting a long-term presence on the Moon.

We also discuss:

• How nuclear technologies provide reliable power during the lunar night and beyond
• The engineering challenges and solutions for deploying nuclear systems
• The interplay between nuclear and solar energy in a resilient lunar grid
• Applications for nuclear thermal propulsion
• The collaborative efforts required across government, industry, and international partners to make this a reality

And much, much more…

• Chapters •

00:00:00 - Intro

00:01:05 - Joe's background

00:02:47 - Kerry's background

00:04:19 - Vision for a thriving lunar infrastructure

00:07:13 - Nuclear and space

00:08:48 - Lockheed's history with nuclear

00:10:23 - Lessons from history that make current power systems in space more efficient

00:13:00 - Nuclear's importance for a sustained lunar presence

00:16:09 - Engineering challenges

00:18:54 - How does mass play a role in the design of the nuclear reactor?

00:20:24 - What will these reactors power?

00:22:04 - Regulation & safety

00:25:22 - Space Policy Directive – 6

00:27:03 - International alignment

00:30:24 - Propulsion

00:34:30 - Chemical vs. nuclear propulsion

00:38:53 - When will nuclear systems be ready for use?

00:40:06 - Economic reason for using nuclear propulsion

00:43:34 - Terrestrial application for nuclear

00:44:40 - Startup capabilities that Lockheed is interested in

00:47:25 - What tech breakthrough would you prioritize for the Moon?

00:49:36 - Innovation predictions in the next 10 years
 

• Show notes •

Lockheed Martin’s website — https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/capabilities/space/human-space-exploration/water-based-lunar-architecture/lockheed-martins-lunar-architecture-novella-white-paper.html

Lockheed Martin Space’ socials — https://twitter.com/LMSpace

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes
 

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

In the second episode of our special three-part Pathfinder series on lunar architecture—brought to you by our partners at Lockheed Martin—we’re zooming in on the technologies and design principles that will help establish a sustainable, long-term presence on the Moon and pave the way for future missions to Mars. Joining us are Christie Iacomini, who manages Lockheed Martin’s lunar infrastructure technology portfolio, and Tim Cichan, the company’s space exploration architect.

Christie and Tim walk us through the building blocks of lunar infrastructure, from robust power systems and reliable communications networks to habitats and mobility solutions. They also highlight the importance of resource utilization, the evolving role of public-private partnerships, and the collaborative efforts needed to turn ambitious concepts into practical solutions.

We discuss:

• The role of vertical solar arrays, nuclear fission systems, and power grids in supporting lunar operations
• Communications challenges and the roadmap for building an interoperable lunar network
• Innovative habitats and rovers designed to withstand extreme lunar conditions
• Strategies for in-situ resource utilization, including extracting water ice and other key materials
• The significance of international collaboration and commercial engagement in achieving lasting lunar sustainability

And much, much more…
 

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

03:45 - What is a space architect?

04:42 - Lockheed's goal for Mars

08:23 - Technological advancements that have made a long-term Moon mission possible

09:52 - What does a successful Lunar mission look like?

11:46 - Power systems for Lunar and Mars missions and state of development cycles

18:15 - Tech in Artemis II and III

20:04 - Challenges for creating a seamless communications network for the Moon

22:34 - Effect of modern tech in space

27:10 - Lunar mobility capabilities

30:44 - Habitation

33:14 - Inflatable vs modular habitats

34:20 - Lunar resource utilization

36:42 - How to create seamless integration between mission-critical tech

41:55 - Planned contingencies

43:49 - Seemingly futuristic technology

45:54 - Getting around on the Moon

47:48 - How Lockheed works with other companies building Lunar architecture

49:01 - Technical milestones

50:58 - What will it take to land on the Moon on time?

52:07 - Inspirations for your work

• Show notes •

Lockheed Martin’s website — https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/capabilities/space/human-space-exploration/water-based-lunar-architecture/lockheed-martins-lunar-architecture-novella-white-paper.html

Lockheed Martin Space’ socials — https://twitter.com/LMSpace

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/