In this episode of Valley of Depth, we sit down with David Tearse, co-founder and CEO of Karman Industries, to explore a piece of the AI boom that rarely gets attention: thermal infrastructure.

As hyperscale data centers grow into multi-gigawatt “AI factories,” the limiting factor is no longer just chips or capital — it’s how efficiently we can move and reject heat. David explains how Karman’s Heat Processing Unit (HPU) reimagines cooling from first principles, bringing aerospace-grade turbomachinery and modern power electronics to a decidedly unglamorous but critical layer of the AI stack.

The conversation moves from the physics of heat to the politics of data centers, and ultimately to why thermal efficiency may become a quiet national security advantage.

We discuss:

• Why thermal management—not chips—may be the next bottleneck in the AI stack
• How Karman’s HPU replaces traditional chillers and dry coolers outside the data center
• How much additional compute Karman can unlock from the same power input
• Why CO₂ refrigerant de-risks data center builds from a regulatory standpoint
• How Karman thinks about reliability, uptime, and “aerospace-style” engineering
• Why data centers are becoming a national security issue
• Where Karman could expand beyond data centers—nuclear, geothermal, and beyond

…and much more.

• Chapters •

00:00 – Intro
00:51 – Elara Nova ad
01:21 – Karman Industries mascot
02:28 – How would David describe himself?
05:01 – The original insight that became Karman Industries
06:31 – What do people underestimate about thermal management?
07:26 – The story behind the name
08:21 – How David and co-founder CJ Karla ended up working together
11:15 – Why is now the right time to be solving thermal management?
15:13 – Where does the heat go today?
16:31 – Energy usage for compute vs cooling
17:32 – Energy Savings with Karman's heat processing units (HPUs)
18:05 – Why C02?
20:48 – Replacing vs integration
21:37 – Regulatory side
24:42 – Karman's customer pipeline
26:33 – Reliability
28:59 – Engineering challenges
30:39 – What comes next for Karman
31:55 – Is thermal management a national security issue?
33:21 – David's thoughts on rerouting heat
36:23 – HPUs in space
37:58 – The company culture that allows for building relaiable solutions quickly
44:35 – Milestones for Karman in the next couple of years
47:00 – What does David do for fun?
 

• Show notes •

Karman’s website —https://www.karmanindustries.com/

David’s socials — https://x.com/7earse

Mo's socials — https://x.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / 

https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/

Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/

Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/

• About us •

Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.

• Payload: www.payloadspace.com
• Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com
• Ignition: www.ignition-news.com

In this episode of Valley of Depth, we sit down with Jack Kuhr, Payload Pro’s Research Director, to unpack what SpaceX has become on the eve of what could be the largest IPO in history. What began as a launch company has evolved into a vertically integrated platform spanning launch, satellites, global connectivity, and potentially AI and compute in space.This is the first in a series of conversations where we’ll regularly update our audience on the latest developments shaping SpaceX and its impact on the broader space economy.

We discuss:

• How Starlink has overtaken launch as SpaceX’s primary growth engine
• Why Starlink’s constraints are more likely terminals, regulation, and physics—not satellites
• How international markets are powering the next phase of Starlink’s expansion
• Why aviation and maritime are the most underappreciated Starlink verticals
• Whether Starlink “Lite” can meaningfully take share from traditional ISPs
• How Starship and Starlink V3 could upend Falcon 9 economics
• Why the SpaceX–xAI merger points to a fully integrated space, connectivity, and AI stack

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro
01:09 - Jack's role at Payload and what is it
04:06 - Jack's revenue model for SpaceX
08:06 - Launch and Starlink
09:23 - Is SpaceX privatizing launch or is there less demand?
12:07 - Starlink's current revenue runway trajectory
14:31 - 2026 projects and potential growth pains
16:41 - Starlink constraints
19:00 - US vs international customers
19:53 - Starlink terminal sales
21:10 - What is currently under appreciated about Starlink's verticals?
22:52 - Starlink Light
24:34 - Competition from GEO broadband providers
33:07 - Starship
34:45 - When will Starlink launch their first commercial, non Starlink payloads
38:22 - Is SpaceX serious about space based data centers?
42:06 - SpaceX x Tesla x xAI

• Show notes •

Payload Pro’s website — https://pro.payloadspace.com/
Jack’s socials — https://x.com/JackKuhr
Mo's socials — https://x.com/itsmoislam
Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace
Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / 
https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/
Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/
Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/
 

• About us •

Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.

• Payload: www.payloadspace.com
• Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com
• Ignition: www.ignition-news.com

We’re excited to launch a very special edition of Valley of Depth, recorded live from the historic vault deep beneath the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE). Going forward, we’ll be returning to the NYSE each month to host a series of conversations from the heart of global capital markets with the leaders building the next generation of critical infrastructure.

In this installment, we sit down with John Serafini, CEO of Hawkeye 360, a company quietly reshaping how governments see and understand the world. While many space companies focus on imagery or communications, Hawkeye 360 is doing something different: listening. By mapping radio-frequency emissions from orbit, the company is turning invisible signals into actionable intelligence, revealing patterns of human behavior that imagery alone can’t capture.

We discuss:

• How space-based RF mapping changes what “global transparency” actually means
• Why signals intelligence is uniquely tied to human activity and intent
• How Hawkeye’s multi-satellite architecture enables precise geolocation at scale
• What it takes to detect dark vessels, GPS jamming, and spoofing in near real time
• Why RF data, software, and proprietary signal libraries form a durable competitive moat
• How commercial SIGINT is becoming core infrastructure for governments globally

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro
00:58 - What makes Hawkeye 360's satellites so special?
02:45 - Why is having RF capability important today
04:51 - What were the limitations of RF satellites before now?
06:38 - Why are there so few companies in the RF space?
08:35 - What Hawkeye is able to detect
13:46 - Satellites in a trio formation
17:21 - Fingerprinting points of interest
18:14 - What can Hawkeye 360 track?
21:33 - GPS jamming and spoofing
22:19 - How John got into this business
24:37 - Market size for RF capability
28:00 - Data licenses
30:56 - Next steps for Hawkeye's revisit rate
32:33 - China's capabilities
33:17 - Why did Hawkeye 360 acquire Innovative Signal Analysis (ISA)?
34:28 - Buy vs build
36:43 - John's stance on datacenters in space
37:55 - Investor confidence around Hawkeye
39:50 - The impact of SpaceX going public
42:02 - Is 2026 the year Hawkeye goes public?
44:59 - Will countries start building RF shields?
45:39 - Ultimate goal of Hawkeye

• Show notes •

Hawkeye’s website — https://www.he360.com/
Hawkeye’s socials — https://x.com/hawkeye360
Mo's socials — https://x.com/itsmoislam
Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace
Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / 
https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/
Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/
Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/

• About us •

Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.

• Payload: www.payloadspace.com
• Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com
• Ignition: www.ignition-news.com

As constraints on energy, water, and permitting collide with exploding demand for AI and compute, a once-fringe idea is moving rapidly toward the center of the conversation: putting data centers in space. Starcloud believes orbital infrastructure isn’t science fiction—it’s a necessary extension of the global compute stack if scaling is going to continue at anything close to its current pace.

Founded by Philip Johnston, Starcloud is building space-based compute systems designed to compete on cost, performance, and scale with terrestrial data centers. The company has already flown a data center–grade GPU in orbit and is now working toward larger, commercially viable systems that could reshape where and how AI is powered.

We discuss:

How energy and permitting constraints are reshaping the future of compute

Why space-based data centers may be economically inevitable, not optional

What Starcloud proved by running an H100 GPU in orbit

How launch costs, watts-per-kilogram, and chip longevity define the real economics

The national security implications of who controls future compute capacity

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro
00:50 - The issue with data centers
02:20 - Explosion of the data center debates
04:58 - Philip's 5GW data center rendering and early conceptions of data centers in space at YC
08:16 - Proving people wrong
11:17 - The team at Starcloud today
12:29 - Competing against SpaceX's data center
14:42 - Sam Altman's beef with Starlink
16:52 - Economics of Orbital vs Terrestrial Data Centers by Andrew McCallip
21:33 - Where are we putting these things?
23:50 - Latency in space
25:59 - Political side of building data centers
28:36 - Starcloud 1
30:16 - Space based processors
30:51 - Shakespeare in space
32:00 - Hardening an Nvidia H100 against radiation and making chips in space economical
34:43 - Cooling systems in space
36:01 - How Starcloud is thinking about replacing failed GPUs
38:46 - The mission for Starcloud 2
40:05 - Competitors outside of SpaceX
40:49 - Getting to economical launch costs
44:35 - Will the next great wars be over water and power for data centers?
46:25 - What keeps Philip up at night?
47:11 - What keeps Mo up at night?

• Show notes •

Starcloud’s website — https://www.starcloud.com/
Philip’s socials — https://x.com/PhilipJohnston
Mo's socials — https://x.com/itsmoislam
Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace
Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  
https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/
Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/
Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/

• About us •

Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.

• Payload: www.payloadspace.com
• Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com
• Ignition: www.ignition-news.com

As more nations realize that space is no longer just a scientific domain but a foundation of economic power and national security, a new question is emerging: who will actually build the infrastructure that underpins it? Orbitworks believes the answer lies in sovereign capability: designed locally, manufactured locally, and operated with speed and control.

Founded by Hamdullah Mohib, a former national security advisor and diplomat who spent years operating at the highest levels of geopolitics, Orbitworks sits at an unusual intersection of statecraft and space manufacturing. Based in Abu Dhabi, the company is building one of the region’s first commercial satellite manufacturing facilities and developing Altair, a native constellation designed to move beyond raw imagery and toward information-driven services for both sovereign and commercial customers.

We discuss:

• How Orbitworks is building a commercial satellite industry from scratch in the UAE
• The strategic logic behind flexible architectures over fixed hardware
• How the Middle East is positioning itself as a serious node in the global space economy
• What it takes to build talent, supply chains, and culture in a brand-new space ecosystem

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro
00:59 - Hamdullah's journey from government and geopolitics to space
05:11 - What is Orbitworks?
06:25 - Partnerships with Orbitworks
08:43 - A joint venture
09:40 - Partnering with Loft Orbital
17:09 - Differences that founders experience in the Middle East
21:26 - Altair constellation
23:29 - Dual use commercial and government
26:34 - Building a facility in KEZAD
33:02 - Cultivating and nurturing talent
34:30 - How the Middle East is thinking about space
40:21 - Priorities of sovereign wealth funds
42:33 - Lessons in leadership
47:08 - Fundraising plans/goals
48:47 - Hamdullah's vision for space in the Middle East
50:46 - What excites Hamdullah the most about the space industry?
 

• Show notes •

Orbitwork’s website —https://www.orbitworks.space/

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / 

https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/

Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/

Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/

• About us •

Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.

• Payload: www.payloadspace.com
• Ignition: www.ignition-news.com
• Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

We're back to kick off 2026!

While the world debates how to power the next era of compute, data centers, and industrial growth, Overview Energy is betting the answer is above us. The company is building infrastructure to beam power from space directly to Earth's grid.

Founded by Marc Berte, a nuclear and aerospace engineer who spent his career at the intersection of lasers, spacecraft, and high-energy systems, Overview is developing a constellation of satellites in geosynchronous orbit that absorb sunlight, convert it to near-infrared laser light, and transmit it to existing utility-scale solar projects on the ground. No new receivers required. By using wide-beam, passively safe transmission and off-the-shelf ground infrastructure, Overview aims to deliver dispatchable, redirectable power anywhere on the planet, turning space solar from science fiction into grid-scale reality.

We discuss:

• Why space solar energy is finally viable after decades of false starts
• How Overview's architecture avoids the in-space assembly problem entirely
• How the economics work: matching cost curves to high-price markets first
• Why GEO matters more than LEO for grid-scale power delivery
• The role of launch cost as the critical external variable
• Why space solar could be the demand flywheel that drives launch costs down for everyone

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro
00:48 - The main problem Overview Energy is solving and why now
04:34 - Why didn’t Marc pursue nuclear fusion/fission?
05:34 - Incubated in Vast
06:32 - State of the art today?
09:58 - Acquisition and beaming down of solar energy and its efficiency
12:23 - Safety, regulatory, and precision constraints
14:54 - Competitive positioning in space solar power
16:20 - Economics of orbital energy vs terrestrial renewables
19:25 - How much more should someone be paying for orbital energy
23:46 - Who will be their first customers?
25:39 - What does the infrastructure look like?
27:39 - Biggest bottleneck for orbital energy
29:34 - Are current launch costs at the level needed for Overview Energy to kick off?
30:27 - Commercial traction
31:46 - Testing and evaluating these systems with the DoD and NASA
33:38 - Early demonstrations and proof points
35:21 - Overview Energy’s space-based demonstration
36:22 - Chinese competition
38:30 - How much more investment is needed to achieve the first gigawatt of power from space?
40:42 - Can terrestrial renewables meet power demands without space-based energy
43:41 - Grid of the future with orbital power in the picture
44:50 - The technical unknowns of orbital energy
48:24 - Powering other space assets
49:46 - What Marc is building when he’s not working at Overview Energy
 

• Show notes •

Overview Energy’s website — https://www.overviewenergy.com/
Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam
Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace
Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / 
https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/
Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/
Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/

• About us •

Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.

• Payload: www.payloadspace.com
• Ignition: www.ignition-news.com
• Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Kerry Wisnosky believes the future of space power will be decided by maneuverability. As satellites remain largely static, Quantum Space is building the infrastructure to move, persist, and operate across orbits, from LEO to cislunar space.

The company is developing Ranger, a six-metric-ton, high-delta-V spacecraft designed to operate for up to 15 years, host and deploy payloads, maneuver freely between orbits, and function as a refueling node. By combining chemical and electric propulsion into a single multimode system, Quantum aims to deliver both high-impulse mobility and long-duration efficiency—turning spacecraft from disposable assets into persistent infrastructure.

Inside the episode:

• Why space remains a static domain and why maneuverability is the next decisive advantage
• How Ranger reframes satellites from disposable assets into long-lived infrastructure
• The strategic importance of fuel in orbit and why refueling changes mission economics
• Why multimode propulsion is the “holy grail” for mobility across orbits
• How life extension in GEO becomes the first commercial wedge
• What zone defense in space could mean for missile defense architectures
• Why Quantum was early to the market and why demand is finally catching up

• Chapters •

00:00 – Intro
00:45 – From Millennium to Quantum Space
02:56 – Key products at Millennium
03:57 – Evolution of Quantum's vision over the years
06:34 – Ranger
13:41 – 15 years of operational life
16:22 – Acquiring Phase Four
22:25 – Orbital mobility
23:37 – Ranger doubling as a fuel depot
25:51 – Target customers for Ranger
30:52 – Interceptors in space for Golden Dome
33:52 – Quantum Space's competitive edge
35:27 – Are other maneuverability companies viewing the problem the wrong way?
37:18 – Quantum Space's launches
39:24 – What does success look like for Quantum's first Ranger mission?
40:21 – Scaling and manufacturing
43:53 – Why should talent work at Quantum?
45:14 – Quantum Space in 5 years
47:35 – What did Kerry not expect while building Quantum?
48:49 – When is Quantum's next launch?

• Show notes •

Quantum Space’s website — https://www.quantumspace.us/
Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam
Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace
Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  
https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/
Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/
Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/

• About us •

Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.

• Payload: www.payloadspace.com
• Ignition: www.ignition-news.com
• Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Lt. Gen. (Ret.) David “Abu” Nahom spent decades defending the American homeland, from commanding Alaska Command and the 11th Air Force to shaping Air Force budgets and strategy as the A8. Mike Dickey started his career in the original Strategic Defense Initiative, helped build the USSF and now advises companies and government leaders on the future of national security. Together, they unpack the realities behind Golden Dome: what it is, what it isn’t, and why it may be the most complex defense undertaking of our time.

Inside the episode:

• Why homeland defense is no longer a Cold War problem and why threats across all domains demand a fundamentally new architecture
• What it actually takes to detect, track, and intercept advanced weapons, from ballistic missiles to hypersonics to low-observable cruise missiles
• How command & control is the real bottleneck, and why BMC2 will define the success or failure of Golden Dome
• Why integrating F-35s, space sensors, legacy radars, and new AI systems is a social-engineering challenge as much as a technical one
• The role of startups in a mission where “move fast and break things” collides with the reality of life-or-death stakes
• Why public perception lags far behind the actual threat picture and what Americans get wrong about homeland defense
• The technologies on the horizon that could completely reshape missile defense in the next decade

• Chapters •

00:00 – Intro
00:41 – David's and Mike's Backgrounds
04:01 – How Elara Nova has grown since last episode
05:17 – What makes Golden Dome different?
08:00 – How exposed has the US been to missile threats?
10:53 – What is the Golden Dome supposed to look like today?
14:02 – Not reinventing the wheel
16:38 – Capabilities of today and tomorrow
23:00 – How new modes of launch change missile defense
24:57 – Integrating new solutions with current systems
27:15 – Golden Dome isn't a technology problem
29:41 – How much does ego play into the social engineering challenge of the Golden Dome?
32:47 – Unable to fail in this startup-driven golden age of space and defense tech
36:11 – Risks of the Golden Dome budget ballooning
39:29 – The deterrence calculus
42:12 – How will Golden Dome interface with our allies
44:20 – Exciting defense tech being developed or doesn’t exist yet
46:29 – How putting weapons in space changes things
48:13 – Golden Dome issues they wish were fixed today
50:24 – What everyday Americans don't understand about the Golden Dome
53:01 – Measurable outcomes that the Golden Dome works
54:56 – What Mike and David do for fun

• Show notes •

Elara Nova’s website — https://elaranova.com/
Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam
Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace
Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  
https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/
Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/
Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/

• About us •

Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.

• Payload: www.payloadspace.com
• Ignition: www.ignition-news.com
• Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Halen Mattison left SpaceX because Elon told him his vision was too long-term. He wanted to build the propellant infrastructure that would unlock Mars and everything between here and there, but the timeline didn't fit SpaceX's roadmap. So he started General Galactic to do it himself.

His team is developing Genesis, a water electrolysis propulsion system that delivers hydrazine-level thrust and xenon-level efficiency using the safest, cheapest, most abundant propellant in the solar system. The company is targeting an orbital demonstration in 2026, with a long-term vision to operate refueling depots from LEO to Mars.

Inside the episode:

• • Why the space industry's fear of new technology is creating a sitting-duck opportunity
• How water electrolysis unlocks both near-term mobility services and long-term ISRU infrastructure
• What "specific impulse" actually means for mission economics and why it matters more than people think
• The Starship refueling challenge and why cryogenic propellant depots will work at scale
• Sequencing from mobility-as-a-service to lunar fuel production to gas stations on Mars
• Why consensus-following investors miss the most ambitious bets and how to tell the contrarian story

• Chapters •

00:00 – Intro
01:11 – When did Halen decide to start his own company?
02:18 – What did Halen do at SpaceX?
02:59 – Deciding moment to devote to a career in aerospace
05:16 – The current state and trajectory of Starship
07:53 – What is General Galactic building?
09:50 – General Galactic's products and end goals
12:12 – General Galactic's perspective shift on mobility in space
16:31 – Architecture vs the current market offerings
21:39 – Why is now the time to build a water electrolysis system?
24:27 – Genesis
25:42 – Hardware in space
26:19 – What would a General Galactic demonstration mission look like?
27:13 – What would product 1 look like?
28:15 – Mission capability unlocks and cost advantage
30:56 – Offering a service
31:27 – Origin and evolution of General Galactic
34:59 – Space companies that sequence well outside of SpaceX
36:06 – 4-year prediction if mobility gets adopted
38:39 – Misunderstandings about Starship's refueling logistics
42:01 – Where would General Galactic fit in the Starship ecosystem?
43:25 – What a v0.1 Mars gas station would look like
44:46 – How difficult is it to protect General Galactic's position with water electrolysis?
46:22 – Lessons from being a founder
49:30 – Sequencing

• Show notes •

General Galactic’s website — https://gengalactic.com/
Halen’s socials — https://x.com/HalenMattison
Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam
Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace
Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  
https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/
Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/
Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/

• About us •

Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.

• Payload: www.payloadspace.com
• Ignition: www.ignition-news.com
• Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Space has a power problem. Satellites need more electricity and better protection, yet solar arrays are slow to build and failure-prone, and shielding adds mass and complexity. Atomic-6 is tackling both sides at once.

Our guest this week is Trevor Smith, founder and CEO of Atomic-6. His team is building Light Wing, a redeployable, mass-manufacturable solar array aimed at higher watts per kilogram and faster delivery, and Space Armor, an RF-permeable debris shield designed to stop hypervelocity impacts while preserving comms and resisting directed energy. The company’s first on-orbit hardware is slated for February 2026, and they’re pursuing multi-billion-dollar constellation opportunities alongside a long-term purchase agreement with a private space-station builder.

Inside the episode:

• Why reliability, not just power density, wins satellite programs
• How a space power gigafactory could reset constellation economics
• What “cell-agnostic” really means for supply chain and performance
• The new “radome for space” capability and where it matters for defense
• Cislunar prospects, lunar-orbit data centers, and vertical solar towers
• Lessons from working with Space Force and navigating dual-use funding
• The state of the U.S. industrial base and why solar arrays are a top supply-chain priority

• Chapters •

00:00 – Intro
00:47 – How Atomic-6 got started
03:06 – Building the power grid for space
04:09 – Why is Atomic-6 building what it's building
05:58 – Dollars per watt per kilo
07:18 – Cell agnostic
07:58 – How Trevor got into the space industry
09:14 – Team construction at Atomic-6
09:49 – What type of people is Atomic-6 looking for?
10:35 – Atomic-6's key product offering
10:58 – Current customers and opportunities at Atomic-6
11:38 – Pipeline
13:07 – Manufacturing scaling
14:04 – How much is an operator spending on solar arrays?
15:12 – Who would we go to today for building a satellite array and what would they be missing?
16:33 – Space Armor
19:44 – What is a radome?
20:34 – Whipple Shield deployment
21:11 – Significance of being transparent to radio signals
21:41 – Terrestrial applications for the Whipple Shield
23:24 – How Atomic-6 came to developing the Whipple Shield
24:48 – Opportunity vs Light Wing and Space Armor
25:38 – Defense traction with Space Armor
26:52 – Atomic-6's business model
29:17 – Milestones
30:35 – Vertical integration
32:34 – Other products that Atomic-6 is developing
33:42 – Developments in advanced materials that will define architecture in space
36:18 – What does success look like for Atomic-6 in 5 to 10 years?
36:59 – What keeps Trevor up at night?
38:05 – Government support
40:17 – The legacy Trevor wants Atomic-6 to leave behind

• Show notes •

Atomic-6’s website — https://www.atomic-6.com/

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  

https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/

Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/

Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/

• About us •

Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.

• Payload: www.payloadspace.com
• Ignition: www.ignition-news.com
• Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com