In this episode of Valley of Depth, we sit down with Xcimer Energy’s cofounders, Conner Galloway and Alexander Valys, to unpack one of the boldest bets in fusion: resurrecting a Cold War-era laser technology to build the fastest, most scalable path to commercial fusion power.

Xcimer has raised over $100 million to bring its inertial confinement fusion system to life, starting with LPK, a high-powered prototype laser built in just four months, and progressing toward Vulcan, a full-scale, ignition-class reactor designed for the grid.

We also discuss:

• Why excimer lasers are making a comeback
• What Xcimer learned from building LPK in just four months
• The Phoenix-to-Vulcan roadmap for commercial fusion
• Lessons from NIF’s ignition milestone and its limits
• The case for fusion as infrastructure, not just science
• How Xcimer is positioning itself in a crowded fusion landscape

…and much, more.

• Chapters •

00:00 – Intro

01:24 – Payload Pro

02:06 – Recent changes in fusion

03:29 – Commercial fusion and perceptions on the tech

05:18 – Founding story of Xcimer

06:51 – Common approaches to fusion today

08:48 – Was the National Ignition Facility (NIF) the catalyst to start Xcimer?

12:22 – Convincing investors to invest $100m into Xcimer

13:34 – What is NIF's goal right now and can it produce electricity?

18:04 – Why hasn't the private sector solved the fusion problem?

20:25 – Xcimer progress report

23:07 – Xcimer's roadmap for the next bigger machine

24:41 – Coming up with Athena

25:33 – Addressing neutron damage

29:54 – The biggest unknown for Xcimer

32:29 – Who are Xcimer's first customers

35:03 – Cost per megawatt per hour to be competitive

37:23 – How much of Xcimer's supply chain is being verticalized

38:48 – Vaporizing a missile with a laser

41:27 – Other fusion companies Alex and Connor admire

44:28 – What inspires a founder or engineer to pursue less proven fusion methods?

47:28 – What drives Alex and Connor to keep on going?

49:02 – First commercial Xcimer fusion plant

• Show notes •

Xcimer’s website — https://xcimer.energy/

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  

https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/

Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/

Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/

• About us •

Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.

• Payload: www.payloadspace.com
• Ignition: www.ignition-news.com
• Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Mikkel Vestergaard isn’t a typical aerospace founder. Before building solar-powered stratospheric airships, he spent two decades in humanitarian innovation, distributing a billion malaria nets, co-creating the LifeStraw, and helping eradicate Guinea worm disease. Now, as CEO of Sceye, he’s applying that same ethos to aerospace.

In this conversation, Mikkel dives deep into the origins, design, and future of High-Altitude Platform Systems (HAPS). We explore why the stratosphere is emerging as a new layer of infrastructure, filling the gap between satellites and towers, and how Sceye’s helium-filled, solar-powered airships could reshape internet connectivity, earth observation, and national security.

We cover:

• Why Mikkel pivoted from global health to aerospace
• The engineering that makes persistent stratospheric flight possible
• How Sceye closes the “power loop” to stay aloft for months
• Commercial applications from telecom to methane detection
• Strategic partnerships with SoftBank, América Móvil, and Mawarid
• The defense potential of HAPS
• The business model behind “infrastructure as a service”
• What it takes to build investor conviction around a platform that feels left-field

• Chapters •

00:00 – Intro

01:52 – Life before Sceye

02:51 – Work at Lifestraw

06:31 – What is Lifestraw?

07:50 – Making the pivot from global health to aerospace and working at Sceye

10:52 – HAPS or High-Altitude Platform Systems

12:25 – Why choose a balloon over a fixed wing aircraft?

14:04 – Types of payloads

16:06 – Not Hindenburg 2.0

16:48 – How Mikkel's earlier material science experience shaped Sceye's design decisions

18:09 – Pitching Sceye to investors

19:16 – Common misconceptions of stratospheric platforms

20:41 – What can HAPS do for the telecommunications industry?

25:03 – How many HAPS would we need to provide global coverage?

25:24 – Sceye's equity investor partners

26:00 – When Sceye will be fully commercialized

28:34 – Other use cases

31:33 – Advantages over satellites

32:34 – National security use cases

33:31 – The business model of HAPS

34:52 – Sceye's next iteration of customers

35:40 – How Sceye is building their team

36:56 – Manufacturing process and scaling

37:53 – Capital to scale

38:25 – What keeps Mikkel up at night

39:38 – What does success to Sceye look like
 

• Show notes •

SCEYE’s website — https://sceye.com/

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / 

https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/

Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/

Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/

• About us •

Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.

• Payload: www.payloadspace.com
• Ignition: www.ignition-news.com
• Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Julien Barber is an investor at Emerson Collective, a venture and policy firm founded by Laurene Powell Jobs, where he backs bold bets on decarbonization, infrastructure, and long-horizon climate technologies. Before becoming an investor, Julien researched fusion energy at MIT and co-founded a carbon-tech startup. 

In today’s episode, we go deep into Julien’s investing philosophy, Emerson’s unique model, and the hard tech categories he believes are most undercapitalized.

We cover:

• Why Emerson is structured for risk others can’t take
• Fusion, fission, and the evolving energy stack
• AI’s impact on power demand and hardware acceleration
• How to invest when the grid is the bottleneck
• Building conviction in hard tech when capital is scarce
• Public vs. private roles in scaling fusion
• What a 7-million-fold increase in energy density may actually look like

• Chapters •
00:00 – Intro

01:49 – From scientist to investor

04:37 – Why Julien chose fusion

08:57 – Investment process at Emerson

10:08 – The team at Emerson

12:15 – Is Emerson consensus-driven and why is it an LLC?

14:07 – Under-invested areas in climate & industrial tech

17:24 – Are AI valuations reasonable today?

18:59 – Bottlenecks in the grid

23:11 – AI energy consumption: hype or real concern?

27:10 – Bridging the energy gap

29:20 – Fusion’s role in the next decade

31:24 – Google & Commonwealth Fusion: serious commercial signal?

32:37 – Are we underinvesting in fusion?

39:12 – Who will reach commercial fusion first?

41:36 – 30-year future if fusion succeeds
 

• Show notes •

Emerson’s socials — https://x.com/emcollective

Emerson’s website — https://www.emersoncollective.com/

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / 

https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/

Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/

Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/
 

• About us •

Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.

• Payload: www.payloadspace.com
• Ignition: www.ignition-news.com
• Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Welcome to a special Tuesday-edition of Valley of Depth, powered by Integrate.

John Conafay spent years inside the space and defense worlds, from Spire to Astranis to the U.S. Air Force, and saw the same problem everywhere: complex programs were managed with spreadsheets, slide decks, and…crossed fingers.

So in 2022, he founded Integrate to fix it. What started as a scrappy startup with five engineers has since landed what he describes as one of the largest software contracts in Space Force history. We discuss:

• Why defense programs are still run on outdated, fragmented tools
• What Integrate actually does and how it’s different from Smartsheet or Microsoft Project
• How Conafay won a $25M Space Force contract
• The architecture choices behind real-time collaboration in classified environments
• Why internal tools and status quo software can’t scale with complexity

And much, much more…

• Chapters •

00:00 – Intro

01:57 – John's background

02:59 – What is Integrate?

04:02 – Pain points in complex project management

06:08 – John's interest in aerospace

10:01 – Core product at Integrate

11:20 – Why tools weren't implemented before

12:50 – DoD project management & efficiency loss

14:29 – Multiplayer coordination approach

16:19 – Hardest integration problem

17:40 – Security architecture

20:17 – Go-to-market & government entry

22:18 – $25M Space Force contract

26:14 – Future Space Force goals

27:59 – Government vs commercial customers

29:16 – Pricing

30:13 – Profitability, team, funding, scaling

32:23 – Ideal investor

33:20 – Competitors

34:50 – Competing with internal tools

36:01 – 10-year product vision

37:36 – Strategic risks in the next decade

39:42 – Hardest part of building Integrate

41:34 – Misconceptions about working with the DoD

42:55 – Advice for founders & younger self

43:53 – John in another life

• Show notes •

John’s socials — https://x.com/jconafay

Integrate’s socials —https://x.com/Integrate_co

Integrate’s website — https://integrate.co/

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  

https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/

Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/

Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/

• About us •

Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.

• Payload: www.payloadspace.com
• Ignition: www.ignition-news.com
• Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Chris Kemp took Astra public in 2021 with a bold vision: low-cost rockets launching daily, bringing sovereign space access to every country on Earth. At its peak, the company was worth over $2 billion. Within two years, that valuation collapsed by 99%.

In this episode of Valley of Depth, we go inside one of the most dramatic flameouts and attempted comebacks in the commercial space era. We discuss:

• Why Astra’s SPAC-era promises didn’t survive contact with reality
• What really went wrong with Rocket 3 and how much of that falls on Kemp
• The decision to take the company private and buy it back for pennies on the dollar
• How Astra raised $80M, and its attempt to raise another $100M+
• The quiet success of its satellite propulsion business
• Rocket 4, and whether this time is actually different
• How Kemp is repositioning Astra as a mobile, defense-aligned launch platform

• Chapters •

00:00 – Intro

01:53 – What's happened since 2022?

02:58 – What kept Astra going after test flight failures?

06:46 – Did Astra's engineering approach work against them?

08:15 – What Chris believes he got wrong

12:51 – Has Chris questioned his leadership at Astra?

14:37 – What would Chris have done differently?

16:34 – Taking Astra private & investor reactions

20:58 – What Chris saw more than anyone else

22:20 – Team and factory space at Astra

23:20 – Chris's philosophy on rocket building

25:54 – Rocket 4 vs Rocket 3

30:35 – Astra’s renewed business model

34:11 – Why is Rocket Lab valued at $16B?

36:21 – Engine business & customer trust

39:25 – NASA & Astra

39:49 – Post-privatization investment

45:18 – The team at Astra

47:08 – What went wrong with Astra's infamous flight

47:54 – Chris's evolving leadership style

50:05 – Chris's hardest moment at Astra

50:49 – Unfair criticisms of Chris

51:54 – What present Chris would tell past Chris

53:12 – What keeps Chris going

54:57 – Would Astra go public again?

57:51 – Astra milestones to watch

• Show notes •

Chris’ socials — https://x.com/Kemp

Astra’s socials —https://x.com/astra

Astra’s website — https://astra.com/

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  

https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/

Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/

Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/

• About us •

Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.

• Payload: www.payloadspace.com
• Ignition: www.ignition-news.com
• Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Jeff Thornburg helped build Raptor at SpaceX. Now he’s building something new: a spacecraft designed for rapid maneuverability across orbits powered by solar thermal propulsion.

In this episode of Valley of Depth, we get into the technical, strategic, and commercial implications of in-space mobility and why it matters now. Topics include:

• The hardest parts of building a rocket engine (and why most startups get it wrong)
• The origins of the Raptor engine and lessons from SpaceX
• Why Portal is betting on solar thermal propulsion
• How Supernova enables fast, responsive movement across LEO, MEO, and GEO
• The case for refueling in orbit and designing without dependencies
• Why defense needs faster spacecraft and what commercial use cases follow
• How Thornburg sees Starship changing the economics of space

and much more…

• Chapters •

00:00 – Intro

01:44 – What drew Jeff to creating engines?

05:13 – Why is building rocket engines still so difficult?

11:50 – Jeff's time at SpaceX

17:52 – Stratolaunch and Commonwealth Fusion and why Jeff moved on

22:50 – Origin of Portal

25:25 – Commercial use case

27:00 – 5 year vision for Portal's architecture

32:01 – Pricing

34:52 – Solar thermal propulsion

38:14 – What comes after Portal's Supernova?

41:15 – Customer traction and Supernova flight

45:44 – Competition in solar thermal propulsion

49:20 – Fundraising prior to the first launch

51:18 – Portal in the next 10 years

54:53 – State of Starship

• Show notes •

Jeff’s socials — https://x.com/JeffThornburg

Antares’ socials — https://x.com/PortalSpaceSys

Antares’ website — https://www.portalsystems.space/

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  

https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/

Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/

Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/

• About us •

Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.

• Payload: www.payloadspace.com
• Ignition: www.ignition-news.com
• Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

In the wake of new executive orders elevating nuclear energy as a national security priority, there’s growing momentum—and urgency—behind advanced fission technologies. Few are better positioned to talk about this shift than Jordan Bramble, co-founder and CEO of Antares Nuclear, a startup building microreactors for defense and space.

In this episode of Valley of Depth, we explore the strategic, technical, and geopolitical dimensions driving the nuclear renaissance. We cover:

• Why microreactors are built for strategic energy and not just the grid

• The real story behind public support for nuclear energy

• How Antares plans to deploy sub-megawatt nuclear systems on U.S. military installations

• The challenges of fuel supply, regulation, and capital

• Why China is pulling ahead and what the U.S. must do to catch up

• Nuclear-powered space assets and propulsion

• Why Jordan believes venture-scale outcomes are coming to nuclear energy

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro
00:56 - Payload Pro
01:39 - State of fission
03:38 - Is renewed nuclear interest driven by political or environmental factors?
05:23 - Are small modular reactors (SMRs) going to replace large, conventional nuclear reactors?
07:31 - Is nuclear still a controversial topic?
09:27 - Cultural legacy of nuclear in media
11:49 - Antares and how Jordan got into nuclear
14:16 - What does 1 Megawatt mean?
15:53 - Game changing environments for Antares's SMR
19:30 - Terrestrial business model
20:39 - Nuclear fuel supply chain
21:35 - Current state and future prediction of fuel pipeline
23:42 - Safety in contested environments
26:49 - Hardest technical challenges
29:52 - What will it take to get to their first electron
31:23 - Competition
34:27 - US vs its adversaries
36:29 - Navigating regulatory guidelines
38:10 - Impact of Trump's Executive Orders
40:03 - NRC
41:12 - Are we living in a VC renaissance for nuclear?
44:05 - What drives Jordan to work on nuclear?
46:30 - For those afraid of nuclear

• Show notes •

Jordan’s socials — https://x.com/jordanbramble

Antares’ socials — https://x.com/AntaresNuclear

Antares’ website — https://boomsupersonic.com/

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  

https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/

Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/

Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/

• About us •

Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.

• Payload: www.payloadspace.com

• Ignition: www.ignition-news.com

• Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

In a major shift, the U.S. government is moving to overturn a 50-year ban on civilian supersonic flight over land—a regulation that’s defined the boundaries of commercial aviation since 1973. It’s a pivotal moment for aerospace, and a timely one for this conversation with Blake Scholl, founder and CEO of Boom Supersonic.

In this episode of Valley of Depth, we dive into the political, technical, and economic forces driving the return of high-speed air travel. We cover:

• Why the U.S. banned supersonic flight and why that’s finally changing
• How Boom plans to make supersonic flight sustainable and commercially viable
• The decision to build a new engine in-house after legacy players stepped away
• What the real economics of airline orders look like and who’s truly onboard
• How regulatory shifts, geopolitical dynamics, and climate pressure intersect
• And why Blake believes faster travel isn’t just a luxury, it’s a necessity

…and much more.

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro
01:07 - Payload Pro ad
01:49 - Supersonic ban repeal
03:48 - Why were supersonic planes banned in the first place?
08:47 - Next steps for supersonic
11:10 - How long until we get a supersonic jet?
12:34 - Why Blake started Boom
16:00 - Why now for supersonic?
18:23 - State of China's commercial supersonic space
19:48 - Boom Supersonic's engines
23:56 - When will the Symphony Engine having a working model?
29:09 - Engineer challenges beyond the engine
29:52 - Engineering the quiet boom
33:49 - What does a sonic boom sound and feel like?
36:11 - Vertical integration
38:05 - Routes that Overture would fly first
38:47 - How much capital would Boom Supersonic need to build their first plane?
40:12 - What did Aerion get wrong?
44:22 - What will the supersonic competition look like?
45:35 - Northrop Grumman partnership
49:58 - Blake's mission behind Boom
52:60 - What will Boom look like in the future?

• Show notes •

Boom Supersonic’s socials — https://x.com/boomaero

Blake’s socials — https://x.com/bscholl

Boom’s website — https://boomsupersonic.com/

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  

https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/

Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/

Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/

• About us •

Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.

• Payload: www.payloadspace.com
• Ignition: www.ignition-news.com
• Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

If the next great war is fought in space, Even Rogers wants the U.S. to be ready. On this episode of Valley of Depth, the True Anomaly CEO and former Air Force weapons officer joins us to break down how he’s building autonomous systems for space superiority and why space is the next warfighting domain. A graduate of the Air Force Weapons School, Even brings rare tactical and strategic insight into how the U.S. must fight and win in orbit.

In this episode, we unpack the doctrine, technology, and strategy shaping the next phase of military competition in space. We cover:

•  Why 2007 was the turning point for space as a warfighting domain
• How to think about offense, deterrence, and domain control in orbit
• What the Space Force needs—and why $60B is the real number
• The role of private industry vs. the primes in defense innovation
• Golden Dome, missile defense, and the future of space-based interceptors

…plus how we may one day have Guardians stationed permanently in space.

Check out Valley of Depth #007 on YouTube, Apple, or Spotify.

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

00:57 - Payload Pro

01:39 - True Anomaly's mission

02:51 - How Even started the company

04:02 - $220m Series C

05:48 - When did space become a place to defend?

09:20 - The challenge to US space dominance

11:16 - What made Even realize that the US was unprepared?

16:05 - What does space superiority look like?

17:49 - What does space warfare actually mean?

21:48 - The R&D the Space Force needs

24:01 - What it meant to form the Space Force

27:11 - The cultural shift on the Space Force

30:49 - Current US Space capabilities and gaps

32:44 - Why was the Space Force budget cut despite its importance?

35:06 - Primes and the US's space capabilities

37:12 - Procurement for the space domain

41:29 - Space components of the Golden Dome

43:35 - Phases of a ballistic missile

44:56 - Intercepting missiles at its boost phase

46:15 - What to prioritize today for space superiority

49:20 - Guardians in space

51:20 - Moon & Mars

52:40 - Lessons learned for the next True Anomaly mission

56:01 - What is the strategic impact True Anomaly is hoping to have?

57:31 - Will NASA blur the lines between civil and military?

• Show notes •

True Anomaly’s socials — https://x.com/the_trueanomaly

Even’s socials — https://x.com/jollyrogersta

True Anomaly’s website — https://www.trueanomaly.space/

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  

https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/

Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/

Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/

• About us •

Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.

• Payload: www.payloadspace.com
• Ignition: www.ignition-news.com
• Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

This week on Valley of Depth, we’re joined by Paul Lwin, co-founder and CEO of Havoc AI—a builder of integrated hardware, software, and logistics that enables collaborative, autonomous maritime operations. A former Navy test pilot and electronic warfare officer, Paul saw firsthand the strategic challenge posed by China’s industrial scale in the Pacific and set out to build an asymmetric answer.

In this episode, Paul shares how Havoc went from pre-seed to delivering 40+ autonomous vessels in just 18 months, what it takes to deploy real autonomy in contested environments, and why the Navy forced them to sell their early prototypes. We also cover:

• Why Havoc built 12 USVs with just 5 people and a $1.2M pre-seed
• How Ukraine’s naval tactics shifted the Pentagon’s mindset
• The difference between platform, mission, and decision autonomy
• Why primes can’t match Havoc’s pace—or price point
• How Replicator changed the rules for startup engagement with DoD
• What it’ll take to get thousands of autonomous boats into the Pacific

…and much more.

Check out VoD #006 on…YouTube, Apple, or Spotify.

• Chapters •

0:00 - Intro

1:07 - Company Mission & Vision

3:43 - DoD Autonomous Exercise Demonstration

6:41 - Funding to Demo Timeline

8:43 - Founding Team & Headquarters

10:19 - Market Demand for Autonomous Maritime Tech

12:42 - Vertical Integration Strategy

14:30 - US Navy Capability Gaps

16:24 - Geopolitics & Business Strategy

17:40 - Product Architecture Roadmap

21:21 - Commercial Market Potential

24:05 - Autonomy Level Achieved

26:48 - Contested Environment Design

28:24 - Next Frontier in Naval Tech

30:04 - Scaling for DoD Requirements

32:09 - Competitive Differentiation

33:48 - Prime Contractor Advantages

35:21 - Replicator Initiative Impact

36:19 - Buyer Incentive Structures

37:44 - Desired Policy Changes

39:09 - Scaling Funding Requirements

40:35 - Defining Mission Success

• Show notes •

Havoc’s socials — https://x.com/HavocAi_USV

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  

https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/

Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/

Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/

• About us •

Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.

• Payload: www.payloadspace.com
• Ignition: www.ignition-news.com
• Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com