Valley of Depth

Stoke Space’s approach to full reuse is easiest to understand when you can actually see the hardware. During an exclusive post-Series E tour of the company’s 168,000-square-foot headquarters outside Seattle, CEO Andy Lapsa walks us through the evolution of Nova—from the Hopper demonstrator that first proved Stoke’s second-stage architecture to the flight hardware now being prepared for orbital testing.

We cover:

- How Stoke is scaling Nova from the three-ton Pathfinder to the 15-ton Block 2
- What changes and what stays the same in Block 2’s propulsion architecture
- How Stoke plans to ramp Pathfinder production while developing Block 2 in parallel
- What remains before Pathfinder ships for final testing and its first orbital flight
- Why Stoke is expanding its manufacturing and testing footprint following the $1 billion Series E

• Show notes •
Stoke’s’ website — https://www.stokespace.com/
Stoke’s’ socials — https://x.com/stoke_space
Andy's socials – https://x.com/AndyLapsa
Mo's socials — https://x.com/itsmoislam
Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/

• About us •
Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies reshaping industry, national security, and the global balance of power.

Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload, Tectonic, Ignition, and Decoding Bio, the show covers space, defense, energy, biotech, and the technologies shaping what comes next.

We sit down with founders, investors, government officials, scientists, and military leaders to understand what they’re building, why it matters, and where these industries are headed. From new companies and breakthrough technologies to capital, policy, and geopolitics, Valley of Depth goes deep on the forces shaping the future.
• Payload: www.payloadspace.com
• Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com
• Ignition: www.ignition-news.com
• Decoding Bio: www.decodingbio.com

Stoke Space’s approach to full reuse is easiest to understand when you can actually see the hardware. During an exclusive post-Series E tour of the company’s 168,000-square-foot headquarters outside Seattle, CEO Andy Lapsa walks us through the evolution of Nova—from the Hopper demonstrator that first proved Stoke’s second-stage architecture to the flight hardware now being prepared for orbital testing.

We cover:
How Stoke is scaling Nova from the three-ton Pathfinder to the 15-ton Block 2
• What changes and what stays the same in Block 2’s propulsion architecture
• How Stoke plans to ramp Pathfinder production while developing Block 2 in parallel
• What remains before Pathfinder ships for final testing and its first orbital flight
• Why Stoke is expanding its manufacturing and testing footprint following the $1 billion Series E

…and much more…

• Chapters •
00:00 - Trailer
01:23 - First public reveal / Block 2 announcement
05:22 - Liquid cooling / full rapid reuse
02:53 - Hopper flew at Moses Lake
09:23 - 12 turbopumps, engine-out capability
11:33 - Not betting on a miracle
13:28 - Same Zenith engine, next variant
15:02 - 100,000 pound thrust engine
17:14 - Full-flow staged combustion — only done once before
20:41 - 10,000 seconds of test time
22:48 - Ships out to Moses Lake, hot fire, go to orbit
28:27 - 5 meter fairing — Falcon 9 class
29:29 - Flight vehicle final checkouts / shipping to Moses Lake
33:16 - Brittle materials problem / ceramic tiles
33:29 - Full rapid reuse — pole position / Shuttle comparison
35:30 - The founding question / aha moment
37:25 - We can take it higher / not thermal limited
39:29 - Building both in parallel
39:51 - 75 to 550 acre expansion

• Show notes •

Stoke’s’ website — https://www.stokespace.com/

Stoke’s’ socials — https://x.com/stoke_space

Mo's socials — https://x.com/itsmoislam

Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/

• About us •

Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies reshaping industry, national security, and the global balance of power.

Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload, Tectonic, Ignition, and Decoding Bio, the show covers space, defense, energy, biotech, and the technologies shaping what comes next.

We sit down with founders, investors, government officials, scientists, and military leaders to understand what they’re building, why it matters, and where these industries are headed. From new companies and breakthrough technologies to capital, policy, and geopolitics, Valley of Depth goes deep on the forces shaping the future.

• Payload: www.payloadspace.com
• Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com
• Ignition: www.ignition-news.com
• Decoding Bio: www.decodingbio.com

Stoke Space was founded around a simple but radical belief: launch is not solved until rockets are fully and rapidly reusable. That thesis is now getting much bigger. Stoke has raised another $1 billion, bringing total capital raised to $2.3 billion, and is unveiling a new 15-ton-class version of Nova designed to be fully reusable. 

In his first sit-down interview following the announcement, Andy Lapsa joins Valley of Depth from Stoke Space’s headquarters outside Seattle. We got an exclusive first look at the company’s new plans before the news was made public, sitting down with Andy to unpack the $1 billion fundraise, the new 15-ton Nova, why Stoke is making such an aggressive bet on full reuse, and why he believes launch capacity could become one of the biggest constraints on the growth of the space economy.

We also cover:

• What the new $1 billion financing enables
• Why launch remains unsolved despite SpaceX’s success
• Why full reuse may matter as much for reliability as it does for cost
• How Stoke plans to manufacture Pathfinder while developing the larger Nova simultaneously
• Why payload-agnostic launch could become increasingly valuable as launch providers vertically integrate
• The long-term opportunities in downmass, in-space manufacturing, compute, and deep-space transportation
• What Stoke needs to prove across its first three orbital flights

…and much more.

• Chapters •

00:00 – Trailer

01:04 – New developments at Stoke

02:16 – The Nova product family

02:55 – Nova block 2

08:19 – Meeting with Jared Isaacman

09:48 – Where Stoke is going to be investing their newly raised $1b of capital

12:12 – Stoke's future production capacity

13:44 – Was this the last private funding round for Stoke?

14:33 – What Andy wanted Stoke to be in 2019 when he founded Stoke

22:47 – The marginal drop with rapid reuse

23:46 – Why are rockets still so hard?

26:17 – Why build a full-flow staged combustion for your first stage?

29:14 – Technical hurdles that are left to solve

31:17 – Second stage

35:05 – Stoke's Metallic alloy based heat shield vs ceramic heat shield

38:01 – The doors that Stoke's heat shield will open

39:51 – The state of the launch industry. Are we screwed in the short term?

45:31 – From launch abundance to panic

46:39 – Had Andy ever thought about redesigning a rocket?

49:00 – Payload agnostic

51:36 – New application layer for Stoke's block 2

59:07 – Andy's advice to new players in the rocket space

1:01:20 – What Keeps Andy up at night?

1:02:29 – What happens after Block 2's mission success?

1:06:31 – When should we expect the first flight of the Block 2?

1:06:57 – In the movie about Stoke, who plays Andy?

1:07:54 – What does Andy do for fun?

• Show notes •

Stoke’s’ website — https://www.stokespace.com/

Stoke’s’ socials — https://x.com/stoke_space

Mo's socials — https://x.com/itsmoislam

Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/

• About us •

Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies reshaping industry, national security, and the global balance of power.

Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload, Tectonic, Ignition, and Decoding Bio, the show covers space, defense, energy, biotech, and the technologies shaping what comes next.

We sit down with founders, investors, government officials, scientists, and military leaders to understand what they’re building, why it matters, and where these industries are headed. From new companies and breakthrough technologies to capital, policy, and geopolitics, Valley of Depth goes deep on the forces shaping the future.

• Payload: www.payloadspace.com
• Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com
• Ignition: www.ignition-news.com
• Decoding Bio: www.decodingbio.com

Skyways has spent nearly a decade working on a problem most of the drone industry largely ignored: logistics. While billions poured into drones built to see targets or strike them, Skyways focused on something less flashy but arguably just as important: moving critical supplies without putting people in harm’s way.

That bet is starting to look increasingly prescient. The company has worked with the U.S. military since its earliest days and is now building its V3 aircraft to carry 100 pounds of payload up to 1,000 nautical miles. The longer-term ambition is much bigger: use defense to mature autonomous aviation, build a global logistics network, and eventually prove the technology required to carry people.

Skyways’ Chief Strategy Officer Isaac Roberts joins Valley of Depth from the company’s Austin factory to unpack why autonomous logistics could become one of the biggest markets in drones, how the war in Ukraine has accelerated the entire industry, and why the FAA may be the biggest obstacle standing between today’s cargo drones and autonomous aviation at scale.

We also cover:

• Chapters •

00:00 – Trailer

00:48 – Skyways factory floor

01:08 – America, French, and Texas flags

02:16 – The problem Skyways is trying to solve

03:49 – The logistics problem

09:05 – Companies Skyways competes with

11:45 – How Skyways beat out Boeing

13:18 – Will Skyways ever transport people?

15:56 – Why focus on cargo over kinetic systems?

18:35 – How has Ukraine changed the nature of drone warfare?

22:58 – Skyhook

25:34 – Where is the FAA a blocker?

28:40 – Defense contract traction

29:34 – Direct competitors in their contracts

30:28 – Is Isaac worried about Anduril competing with them?

34:06 – Current economics for the v3

36:00 – Hype and BS

37:52 – How to get to ground truth with tech

39:41 – Funding and next phase of growth

40:35 – How is Skyways structurally different than other defense companies?

41:52 – How Isaac got to Skyways

43:29 – Rocky moments at Skyways

44:27 – The FAA unlock for the industry

50:38 – What keeps Isaac up at night?

52:37 – What Mo and Isaac do for fun

• Show notes •

Footage courtesy of Skyways

Skyways’ website — https://www.skyways.com/

Skyways’ socials — https://x.com/skyways

Mo's socials — https://x.com/itsmoislam

Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/

• About us •

Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies reshaping industry, national security, and the global balance of power.

Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload, Tectonic, Ignition, and Decoding Bio, the show covers space, defense, energy, biotech, and the technologies shaping what comes next.

We sit down with founders, investors, government officials, scientists, and military leaders to understand what they’re building, why it matters, and where these industries are headed. From new companies and breakthrough technologies to capital, policy, and geopolitics, Valley of Depth goes deep on the forces shaping the future.

Skyways has spent nearly a decade working on a problem most of the drone industry largely ignored: logistics. While billions poured into drones built to see targets or strike them, Skyways focused on something less flashy but arguably just as important: moving critical supplies without putting people in harm’s way.

That bet is starting to look increasingly prescient. The company has worked with the U.S. military since its earliest days and is now building its V3 aircraft to carry 100 pounds of payload up to 1,000 nautical miles. The longer-term ambition is much bigger: use defense to mature autonomous aviation, build a global logistics network, and eventually prove the technology required to carry people.

Skyways’ Chief Strategy Officer Isaac Roberts joins Valley of Depth from the company’s Austin factory to unpack why autonomous logistics could become one of the biggest markets in drones, how the war in Ukraine has accelerated the entire industry, and why the FAA may be the biggest obstacle standing between today’s cargo drones and autonomous aviation at scale.

We also cover:

• Chapters •

00:00 – Trailer

00:48 – Skyways factory floor

01:08 – America, French, and Texas flags

02:16 – The problem Skyways is trying to solve

03:49 – The logistics problem

09:05 – Companies Skyways competes with

11:45 – How Skyways beat out Boeing

13:18 – Will Skyways ever transport people?

15:56 – Why focus on cargo over kinetic systems?

18:35 – How has Ukraine changed the nature of drone warfare?

22:58 – Skyhook

25:34 – Where is the FAA a blocker?

28:40 – Defense contract traction

29:34 – Direct competitors in their contracts

30:28 – Is Isaac worried about Anduril competing with them?

34:06 – Current economics for the v3

36:00 – Hype and BS

37:52 – How to get to ground truth with tech

39:41 – Funding and next phase of growth

40:35 – How is Skyways structurally different than other defense companies?

41:52 – How Isaac got to Skyways

43:29 – Rocky moments at Skyways

44:27 – The FAA unlock for the industry

50:38 – What keeps Isaac up at night?

52:37 – What Mo and Isaac do for fun

• Show notes •

Footage courtesy of Skyways

Skyways’ website — https://www.skyways.com/

Skyways’ socials — https://x.com/skyways

Mo's socials — https://x.com/itsmoislam

Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/

• About us •

Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies reshaping industry, national security, and the global balance of power.

Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload, Tectonic, Ignition, and Decoding Bio, the show covers space, defense, energy, biotech, and the technologies shaping what comes next.

We sit down with founders, investors, government officials, scientists, and military leaders to understand what they’re building, why it matters, and where these industries are headed. From new companies and breakthrough technologies to capital, policy, and geopolitics, Valley of Depth goes deep on the forces shaping the future.

This month, Mo and Jack host a live Space & Defense Update from the NYSE, featuring leading investors and executives:

• Erik Kriessmann, Partner at Altimeter Capital

We discuss the latest developments across space, defense technology, AI infrastructure, hypersonic aviation, edge computing, private-market investment, and the emerging companies building the next generation of critical infrastructure.

About us

Arkaea Media is building the definitive media, events, and intelligence platform for the future of the defense industrial base.

We deliver high-quality journalism and actionable insights that shape the business, policy, and investment decisions underpinning technically complex and highly regulated industries that influence global security.

Our portfolio of publications includes Payload, Tectonic, Ignition, and Decoding Bio.

• Payload: www.payloadspace.com

• Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

• Decoding Bio: www.decodingbio.com

Antares just closed a massive $470M Series C, was welcomed to the Oval Office by President Trump to celebrate becoming the first startup to achieve reactor criticality under the Department of Energy's reactor pilot program, and is now racing toward delivering the first commercial microreactors to the U.S. military. Just three years after being founded, the company expects to surpass $1B in defense contracts while attempting to restart America's nuclear industrial base.

CEO Jordan Bramble joins Valley of Depth to unpack what it actually took to build and operate a nuclear reactor in under a year, why Antares believes the military (not hyperscale data centers) is the fastest path to commercial nuclear power, and how microreactors could fundamentally reshape everything from missile defense and remote military installations to space exploration.

We also cover:

• Chapters •

00:00 - Trailer

00:54 – Jordan at the White House

02:57 – What does criticality mean?

04:29 – How hard is reaching criticality?

08:48 – What $600M in fundraising will allow Antares to do

09:58 – How did Antares get to criticality first?

12:55 – How the government's approach to nuclear has changed since Jordan's time at the Office of Management & Budget

15:25 – How small modular reactors fit in the nuclear tech landscape

19:02 – Space-based civilian use cases for nuclear

20:57 – Antares's approach to fuel availability and supply chains

25:56 – Electricity in 2027

27:14 – Regulatory hurdles

30:12 – The production line Antares is building

31:33 – The road to 30 reactors a month

33:22 – The data center component

37:22 – Is it just a coincidence that 4 companies reached criticality by the July 4th deadline?

39:48 – How would an investor know if a nuclear company is on the right path?

43:09 – What would Jordan have done differently with Antares?

44:36 – What will Jordan be most proud of about Antares when he's 80?

• Show notes •

Antares’ website — https://antaresindustries.com/

Jordan’s socials — https://x.com/jordanbramble

Mo's socials — https://x.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://x.com/payloadspace / 

https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Ignition’s socials — https://x.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/

Tectonic’s socials  — https://x.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/

Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/

• About us •

Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. 

Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), Decoding Bio (biotech) and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.

Ian Cinnamon didn’t set out to build a satellite company. After selling his first startup to Palantir, he became convinced the real bottleneck in space wasn’t launch or payloads, but the spacecraft itself. While rockets were getting cheaper and payloads more capable, satellite buses were still being built like bespoke engineering projects. Apex’s answer was simple in theory and incredibly difficult in practice: turn spacecraft into products.

Four years later, Apex is building standardized satellite platforms for commercial and national security customers, with a product lineup that now spans missions from LEO to GEO. We get into whether the satellite bus market is genuinely supply constrained, if standardized spacecraft become commodities or durable technology platforms, and how Starship, proliferated constellations, and rising defense demand are reshaping the economics of spacecraft manufacturing.

We also cover:

Check out Valley of Depth #045 on Apple, Spotify, or YouTube.

• Chapters •

00:00 – Trailer

• Show notes •

Apex’s’ website — https://www.apexspace.com/

• About us •

Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. 

Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), Decoding Bio (biotech) and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.

Soren Monroe-Anderson grew up racing FPV drones before turning that obsession into Neros, a defense startup building low-cost, high-volume drone systems for the United States and its allies. What began with prototypes in a basement has become a 200-person company producing roughly 1,000 drones a week, with plans to build a factory capable of making one million annually.

The timing is difficult to ignore. Small drones have become one of the defining weapons of the war in Ukraine, China holds a massive production advantage and the Pentagon is now trying to catch up in a category it was slow to take seriously.

We get into why so many American drones failed in Ukraine, what separates a good demo from a battlefield-ready product, and why Soren believes the next generation of weapons will look more like consumer electronics than traditional defense systems. We also discuss the limits of autonomy, the difficulty of manufacturing at scale, and the moral weight of building kinetic systems.

We cover:

• Chapters •

00:00 – Plants at the factory

• Show notes •

Neros’ website — https://www.neros.tech/

• About us •

Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. 

Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), Decoding Bio (biotech) and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.

Footage from David Hambling (https://www.youtube.com/@davidhambling2609) 

Eric Romo spent his early career as employee #13 at SpaceX, left for nearly two decades, and came back to one of the hardest unsolved problems in the space economy: what happens after launch. Getting things to orbit is largely figured out. Moving them once they're there is not.

Impulse is now over $1B raised, embedded in the Golden Dome architecture, and with a GEO rideshare program booked out before a first flight. We get into how they got there, why Eric thinks every business model predicated on cheap Starship launch is broken, and what it actually means to be building in-space mobility at the moment GEO becomes a contested domain.

We cover:

• Chapters •

00:00 – Intro trailer

• Show notes •

Impulse’s website — https://www.impulsespace.com/

• About us •

Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), Decoding Bio (biotech) and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.