Patterns Podcast

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The design token nerds are taking over the pod! In this episode, guest host Christopher Bloom sits down with Garth Braithwaite, Lead Senior Staff Design Engineer at Adobe, for a deep dive into the inner workings of Spectrum’s design tokens. Garth shares how Adobe manages the complexity of scaling a multi-platform design system, and how thoughtful collaboration across teams builds real value for users.

They get into the weeds on cross-team communication, naming conventions, accessibility, versioning, and Garth’s own front-end manifesto. If you’re building, scaling, or just geeking out over design tokens—this one’s pure gold.

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Guest
Garth Braithwaite is a Lead Senior Staff Design Engineer at Adobe, where he plays a key role in maintaining the Spectrum design system. With a background in both design and engineering, Garth brings a unique perspective to scaling design systems and improving workflows across teams.

Host
Christopher Bloom is a Principal Front-end Engineer at Knapsack. He's a design system nerd, avid mountain biker, and all-around ball of insight and energy.

Sponsor
Sponsored by Knapsack, the digital production platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

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In this episode, TJ Pitre, founder of South Left, joins the podcast to trace the real evolution of digital production — from the early days of Flash and Fireworks to today's dynamic, system-driven workflows. TJ shares his journey bridging design and development, reflects on the rise of modern tools like Figma, and explores the shift toward more connected, production-ready design. Along the way, he breaks down the growing role of the design engineer, the impact of AI on creative workflows, and what the future holds for building smarter, faster digital products.

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Guest

TJ Pitre is the founder of South Left, a boutique front-end agency that lives at the intersection of design and development. With roots in illustration, UI design, and engineering, TJ helps teams transform static ideas into dynamic, production-ready systems. He’s a passionate advocate for design engineering, smarter workflows, and the evolving future of digital production.

Host

Andrew Rohman is EVP of Strategy at Knapsack, where he helps enterprises close the gap between design and code and accelerate digital product delivery at scale. He’s passionate about building better systems, reducing risk, and creating positive change across teams and organizations.

Sponsor
Sponsored by Knapsack, the digital production platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

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This week, we're digging into the Design Systems Podcast archives. Guest host Richard Banfield, VP of Design Leadership at Knapsack, revisits a 2020 conversation between host Chris Strahl and Rick Rodriguez, then Head of Design Systems at Walmart Labs.

Rick shares how his team developed Living Design, Walmart’s internal design system, to support both customer-facing and associate-facing digital products. The conversation explores what it takes to design for scale across a massive enterprise ecosystem, how to navigate legacy technologies while planning for the future, and how to engage people across your organization to drive alignment and adoption.

You’ll also hear about:

• Lessons in contribution, ownership, and iteration within a federated design organization
• The ambassador program that helped evangelize and align teams across the enterprise
• Insights into how data and qualitative feedback drive system decisions — especially around complex components like carousels

Although this conversation originally aired five years ago, the lessons Rick shares remain strikingly relevant. As design systems continue to mature, this episode offers a timeless perspective on scaling thoughtfully, building collaboratively, and evolving with intention.

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Guest

Rick Rodriguez is currently a Product Design Manager at Meta, but at the time of our original episode he wast the Head of Design Systems at Walmart Labs.  He is an avid runner, hand letterer, and superfan of cappuccinos and donut breaks. You can find Rick on Twitter as @rickrodriguez, and on LinkedIn.

Hosts

Richard Benfield is the VP of Design Leadership at Knapsack. He's acted as an advisor and interim executive to category-leading organizations, ia a best selling author, been a founder/CEO, and built and sold several businesses over the last 20+ years.

Chris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.

Sponsor
Sponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

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In this episode of the Design Systems Podcast, guest host Andrew Rohman sits down with Jon Warden to explore how GSK leverages design systems to drive consistency, innovation, and efficiency across a highly complex global organization. With multiple brands, multi-product ecosystems, and diverse regional needs, GSK must balance scale and flexibility while embracing automation, AI, and modern workflows—all while keeping the customer experience at the center of their digital strategy.

Key Topics Covered:

• How GSK creates design consistency across multiple brands, products, and global regions
• The role of design systems in managing complexity at scale
• AI and automation in streamlining workflows and driving efficiency
• How GSK balances innovation with regulatory and operational constraints
• The impact of scalable workflows on accelerating digital transformation
• Building digital experiences that meet customer needs while maintaining global consistency

Tune in for a deep dive into how one of the world’s leading pharmaceutical companies is leveraging design systems to power its digital strategy, drive innovation, and create seamless customer experiences at scale.

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Guest

Jon Warden is a user experience, design, and product strategist with over 25 years of experience. In the past decade, he has created, led, and managed UX, design, and product teams across various sectors, including news (The Times, London), B2B, B2C, media agencies, telecoms, and charity. Jon focuses on providing clear UX direction throughout the development lifecycle. He and his teams emphasize outcome-based user research, data, and user testing programs. Through UX design practices, they support the creation of user-centric products that engage customers across all channels. Currently, Jon is the Global Director of UX, Design & Research in the Commercial Digital & AI division at GSK.

Sponsor
Sponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

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In this episode of The Design Systems Podcast, guest host Richard Banfield takes us on a journey through the intersection of artificial intelligence and design systems. We revisit some of the most compelling discussions featuring experts David Calleja, Nick Hahn, Ranjeet Tayi, and Kate Moran. Together, they unravel how AI is transforming the way digital products are designed and developed. From AI's potential as a creative partner to its role in automating repetitive tasks, this episode dives into the profound impact AI is having on design workflows. We explore how AI can serve as a copilot, adapting in real time to deliver personalized user experiences, and discuss the importance of maintaining human oversight to ensure quality and integrity. Whether it's hyper-personalizing user interfaces or enhancing the efficiency of design processes, AI is not set to replace humans but to augment our creativity and productivity. Join us as we explore the exciting possibilities AI brings to the world of design systems.

Check out the original episodes:

• How AI is Revolutionizing Design Systems and Customer Experiences with Dave Calleja
• Design Systems and Ways of Working: Nick Hahn on Collaboration, Adoption, and AI
• Ranjeet Tayi from Informatica: AI-Driven Design
• Why Kate Moran Thinks Humans Are Essential to the Future of Generative UI and AI

View the transcript of this episode.

Check out our upcoming events.

If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.

Sponsor
Sponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

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in this episode Knapsack's VP of Design Leadership, Richard Banfield takes a look back at a conversation between Chris Strahl and Emily Campbell. They discuss the convergence of design and code, and what that actually looks like. They walk through what a designer role looks like in a modern digital product team and Emily explains her idea that design and development are the same. They just have different approaches to the same process or medium.

Other topics the duo touch on include questioning if designers should learn to code, intent around design and development, the importance of making intentional decisions, and more.

View the transcript of this episode.

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If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.

Emily Campbell
Now the VP of Design at HackerRank, at the time of original recording Emaily was a Senior Design Specialist for InVision. Emily is a veteran design and product practitioner who focuses on human-centered design, translating creative strategy into business value, building a culture of leadership, and sharing ownership across disciplines. On the side, Emily enjoys exploring the desert around her home in Moab, Utah with her husband and three kids.

You can find Emily on Twitter and LinkedIn.

Sponsor
Sponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

Other Show Notes
Learn about Conway's Law and the Portland Swifts.

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Increasingly, design systems need to support multi-product ecosystems with a diverse array of consumers and stakeholders. This week, Chris Strahl sits down with Miranda Bouck from Instacart to explore the intricacies of managing a multi-faceted design system. Miranda delves into the challenges and strategies of balancing the diverse needs of consumer apps, internal apps, and enterprise retail partners, all while maintaining system flexibility and performance. Learn how Instacart's small but mighty design system team effectively supports a vast network of designers, developers, and business partners. Tune in for a fascinating discussion on pushing the boundaries of design systems in a complex ecosystem.

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If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.

Guest
Miranda is a Staff Product Designer at Instacart, working on the Instacart Design System, Pantry. Her aim: build products that create an accessible, logical, and predictable user experience. Blueberries. They're always in my cart.

Host
Chris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.

Sponsor
Sponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

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Many enterprise organizations face the challenge of scaling their design systems as the scope of product support expands through adoption and acquisition.

In this episode of the Design Systems Podcast, host Chris Strahl speaks with Will Rodenbough, Senior UX Designer at Avalara, about the critical role of design systems in enabling scalability and supporting a growth-by-acquisition strategy.

Key Topics Covered:

• Scaling Through Systems Thinking: How Avalara's design system harmonizes diverse products across its growing ecosystem.
• Supporting Growth-by-Acquisition: Strategies for integrating acquired companies into a unified design system.
• Collaboration and Accessibility: Ensuring stakeholder alignment and prioritizing accessibility as a foundation for scalable design.

Listen to discover how Will leverages design systems to drive scalability and growth in a multi-product organization.

View the transcript of this episode.

Check out our upcoming events.

If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.

Guest

Will Rodenbough is a Senior UX Designer based in Seattle with over a decade of experience working at startups and industry-leading tech companies. He has been the design lead on the Avalara design system since its inception in 2018, collaborating with teams across the company to provide scalable and accessible solutions that emphasize a thoughtful balance between consistency and flexibility.

Host
Chris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide.

Sponsor
Sponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

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In our first episode of 2025, Chris Strahl sits down with Adriana Morales, Design Principal at H-E-B, to explore the evolution, challenges, and triumphs of design systems in organizations at different stages of maturity. Adriana shares her journey from IBM to H-E-B, highlighting how each company’s unique financial priorities and cultural dynamics shape the mission and execution of their design systems. Together, they discuss the paradox of design systems: balancing constraints with creativity, and ensuring they enhance rather than hinder innovation. Adriana also offers actionable strategies for celebrating small wins, sustaining engagement, and demonstrating the tangible value of design systems across teams, leaders, and executives. Tune in for an inspiring start to the new year!

View the transcript of this episode.

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If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.

Guest

Adriana Morales is a Design Principal at H-E-B based in Austin, TX, where she uses systems thinking and radical collaboration to create scalable design systems, resources, and tools to bridge the gaps between design and engineering teams and build cohesive experiences. She believes in nurturing the next generation of designers to find clarity in complexity and uncover their hidden powers.

Host
Chris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.

Sponsor
Sponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

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In this special episode of the Design Systems Podcast, co-founders Chris Strahl and Evan Lovely celebrate five years of the podcast and reflect on their journey from agency work to building Knapsack. They discuss the evolution of design systems, lessons learned from working with global enterprise clients, and the importance of composability, constraints, and community in driving innovation. Enjoy anecdotes from their early days and a look ahead at the role of AI and design systems in the future.

View the transcript of this episode.

Check out our upcoming events.

If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.

Host
Chris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.

Sponsor
Sponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.