In this new Book Talks episode, Mandolyn Wilson Rosen is back to help me review a new art book: Jack Whitten: Notes From the Woodshed, Edited by Katy Siegel for Hauser & Wirth. Equal parts profound, strident and hilarious, Jack Whitten's (1939-2018) 50 year studio log packs a wallop. And it's meaty at 581 pages, so we had lots to discuss! Stick around to hear some sage advice, inspiring tales of studio experimentation and even some positive affirmations from this incredible painter and sculptor.

Links to shows, videos, articles mentioned:⁠"

Jack Whitten: The Messenger" Exhibition at MOMA 2025⁠

⁠"Jack Whitten: Ready-nows" Two Coats of Paint Blog⁠

⁠⁠Xerox PARC Artist-in-Residence (PAIR) program⁠⁠

⁠Jack Whitten – ‘The Political is in the Work’ by TateShots⁠

⁠Jack Whitten: An Artist's Life | Art21 "Extended Play"⁠

⁠Uncovering Jack Whitten’s mysterious abstractions | HOW TO SEE (MOMA)⁠

Artists mentioned: Willlem DeKooning, Robert Blackburn, Romare Bearden, Jacob Lawrence, Norman Lewis, Barnett Newman, Franz Kline, Gerhard Richter, Richard Serra, Ron Gorchov, Sol Lewitt, Frank Stella, Caravaggio, Berrisford Boothe, Kerry Downey, Amy Sillman, Jake Berthot

Whitten works mentioned: "The Messenger: For Art Blakey," "Homecoming: For Miles," "Black Monolith 2: Homage to Ralph Ellison, The Invisible Man," "Head IV Lynching," Homage to Malcolm," "King's Wish (Martin Luther's Dream)," "King's Garden," The Slab Paintings, "Asa's Palace," Gray Paintings, Greek Alphabet Paintings, "Dead Reckoning I," "9-11-01," "Apps for Obama," "Nine Fire CDS: For the Fire Spitter (Jane Cortez)," "Zeitgeist Traps (For Michael Goldberg)," "Quantum Wall VIII for Arshile Gorky (My First Love in Painting)," "Crystal Palace: For Jeanne Siegel"

Philosophers Jack loved: Immanuel Kant, Martin Heidegger, Edmund Husserl, Taha Hussein (Egyptian, Arab Renaissance), Friedrich Nietzsche, Slavoj Žižek

Other artist logs:

Day Book by Anne Truitt

The Andy Warhol Diaries Edited by Pat Hackett

Philip Guston: Collected Writings, Lectures and Conversations Edited by Clark Coolidge

Agnes Martin: Painting, Writings, Remembrances Edited by Arne Glimcher

Where to get the book:

Hauser & Wirth , Abe Books, Thrift Books, Ebay, Amazon

Please find Mandolyn Wilson Rosen online here: ⁠⁠mandolynwilsonrosen.com⁠⁠ and IG ⁠⁠@mandolyn_rosen⁠⁠

Thank you, Mandy! Thank you, Peps Listeners!

All music by Soundstripe

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Artist, Judy Glantzman, is back on the pod this week to discuss her friend and incredible artist, Dawn Clements (1958-2018). Come along with me as I hear more about this brave, innovative artist who celebrated the idea of the ungovernable doodle. Her ink and gouache drawings span walls and rooms, yet she often made them folded up on trains and while lying in bed. It was wonderful to hear Judy's recollections of this artist I have long-admired.

Exhibitions mentioned:

James Barron Art "Dawn Clements: Paper Flowers" 2025

Pierogi "Dawn Clements at the Boiler" 2010

MANA Contemporary, Jersey City, NJ "Dawn Clements, Living Large: A Survey, " 2021

Bates College Museum of Art, Lewiston, ME "Back and Forth" Dawn Clements and Marc Leuthold 2008

Museum of Modern Art "High and Low: Modern Art and Popular Culture" 1990-91

...and keep an eye out for Dawn's upcoming show at the RISD Museum!

Dawn Clements works discussed: "Mrs. Jessica Drummond's Bedroom (My Reputation, 1946)" 2010, "Kitchen and Bathroom" 2003, "Tabletop (Black and White)" 2010, "The Boiler" 2010, "Triptych (Yaddo)" 2017, "Maele Luster" 2011, "Grass" 2017, "Oval" 1995-2000, Collaboration with Marc Leuthold 2008 PLUS find more images at Pierogi

Residencies mentioned: Sint Trudo Abdij (Maele, Belgium), MacDowell, Yaddo, Civitella Ranieri Foundation

Other artists mentioned: Janet Fish, Fra Angelico ("Noli me tangere", 1440–42. Fresco from the convent of San Marco, Florence), Jane Freilicher, Catherine Murphy, Morandi, David Wojnarowicz, Vija Celmins, George Condo, Gina Ruggeri, Charles Burchfield, Charles Garabedian, Mary Temple

Book mentioned: "Looking at the Overlooked" by Norman Bryson

Links to online talks:

Brooklyn Rail Panel: "Living Large: Dawn Clements"

Vermont Studio Center Lecture

Dawn's favorite art materials: PAPER • Fabriano Accademia roll paper, 80-lb., and Strathmore 400 drawing roll paper, 100-lb. INKS AND PENCILS • Sumi ink (both black and vermilion)• ballpoint pen (Bic Crystal or PaperMate medium point black)• No. 2 pencils WATERCOLOR • Sennelier GOUACHE: • Winsor & Newton BRUSHES • soft round watercolor

-----

Thank you to my guest, Judy Glantzman! Don't miss her upcoming solo show:

"Playing with Dolls "

Judy Glantzman at

PPOW Gallery

Feb 6 - March 14, 2026

390 Broadway, 2nd Floor (2nd location)
New York, NY 10013

Also, find Judy on IG: @judyglantzman

Thank you for listening!

----------------------------

Pep Talks on IG: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@peptalksforartists⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Pep Talks Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.peptalksforartists.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Amy, your beloved host, on IG: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@talluts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Amy's website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.amytalluto.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Pep Talks on Art Spiel as written essays: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://tinyurl.com/7k82vd8s⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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We're back for Part 2! Artist, Jennifer Coates joins me again to discuss 2 modern-day women mystic artists: Cornish Visionary, Ithell Colquhoun and Desert Transcendentalist, Agnes Pelton.

Ithell Colquhoun links and mentions:

"Papers of Ithell Colquhoun (1906-1988)" archive at Tate Modern

The Living Stones: Cornwall book by Ithell Colquhoun

"The Mantic Stain" 1949 essay by Ithell Colquhoun

"Dance of the Nine Opals" 1942 painting by Ithell Colquhoun

"Scylla" 1938 painting by Ithell Colquhoun

"Alcove" 1946 painting by Ithell Colquhoun

Elliott Green, artist

Ithell Colquhoun: Between Worlds ed Katy Norris

"Taro of Color": Ithell Colquhoun's Tarot Deck 1977

Agnes Pelton links and mentions:

Transcendental Painting Group, incl Raymond Johnson

Hilma Af Klint

Helena Blavatsky & Theosophy

Alchemy 1937-9

Mother of Silence 1933

Photo of Agnes Pelton in Cathedral City 1932

Mystical Book Nook

⁠The Living Stones: Cornwall⁠ book by Ithell Colquhoun

Ithell Colquhoun: Between Worlds⁠ ed Katy Norris

Practical Mysticism by Evelyn Underhill

On Mysticism by Simon Critchley

Holy Feast and Holy Fast: The Religious Significance of Food to Medieval Women by Caroline Walker Bynum

Ithell Colquhoun: Genius of The Fern Loved Gully by Amy Hale

Weird Studies Podcast: Amy Hale episode

Medieval Women: the Curators' Lunchtime Lecture on You Tube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUgweMmuhyI

Medieval Women: Voices and Visions (British Library) ed Julian Harrison & Eleanor Jackson 

Agnes Pelton: Desert Transcendentalist (Phoenix Art Museum) ed Gilbert Vicario

The Spiritual in Art: Abstract Painting from 1890 to 1985 ed Maurice Tuchman

Thanks so much to my guest cohost, Jennifer Coates!

Find her online: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠web⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠IG⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Thanks to you for listening!

~~~

Visit Glögg Glǒgg, a pop up art faire, Dec 12-14, 2025 in Woodstock NY! More info: ⁠https://gloggglogg.my.canva.site/⁠ or on IG at ⁠@glogg_glogg⁠

~~~

All music by Soundstripe

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Pep Talks on IG: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@peptalksforartists⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Pep Talks Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.peptalksforartists.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠

Amy, your beloved host, on IG: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@talluts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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Pep Talks on Art Spiel as written essays: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://tinyurl.com/7k82vd8s⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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In this episode, Jennifer Coates returns to help me explore the spookily wonderful topic of Women Mystics and their connection to art and artists. In Part 1, we cover mystics from the Pythia of Ancient Greece to ecstatic visionaries like Hildegard von Bingen of the late Medieval era.

P.S.: Keep an eye out for Part 2 where we dip into our fave 20th-century mystical artists.

Ancient Mystics mentioned: The Pythia, priestesses of Apollo and the women behind the Oracle at Delphi (Greek) and the process of Dream Incubation by the Dream Oracles (Greek)

Pythia/Oracle of Delphi deep dive (thanks, Gary!):

1. ⁠https://tinyurl.com/y8798eap⁠

2. ⁠https://tinyurl.com/4vxkcsnu⁠

3. ⁠https://tinyurl.com/mtz3rn24

Medieval Mystics mentioned: Joan of Arc, Christine Carpenter (Anchoress), Julian of Norwich (Anchoress), Margery Kempe, Birgitta of Sweden, Teresa of Avila, Hildegard of Bingen and her artworks "Scivias 2.1: The Redeemer," "Scivias 1.6: The Choirs of Angels," "Book of Divine Works, Part 2, Vision 1: The Parts of the Earth: Living, Dying, and Purgatory" 1150-1230 and song "O Viridissima Virga" /“O branch of freshest green”

Medieval Illuminator mentioned: Sibylla von Bondorf and her painting, "St Clare and a Group of Nuns Mourning St Francis of Assisi" 1478

Films mentioned: "Anchoress" 1993, "Vision: From the Life of Hildegard von Bingen" 2009 starring Barbara Sukowa, dir by Margarethe von Trotta

Book mentioned: "Medieval Women: Voices & Visions," ed by Eleanor Jackson and Julian Harrison

Potpourri: Jennifer's morbidanatomy.org class "Sensing the Supernatural Dead" taught by Jamie L. Brummitt

Thanks so much to my guest cohost, Jennifer Coates!

Find her online: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠web⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠IG⁠⁠⁠⁠

Thanks to you for listening!

~~~

Visit Glögg Glǒgg, a pop up art faire, Dec 12-14 in Woodstock NY! More info: https://gloggglogg.my.canva.site/ or on IG at @glogg_glogg

~~~

All music by Soundstripe

----------------------------

Pep Talks on IG: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@peptalksforartists⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Pep Talks Website: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.peptalksforartists.com/⁠⁠⁠

Amy, your beloved host, on IG: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@talluts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Amy's website: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.amytalluto.com/⁠⁠⁠

Pep Talks on Art Spiel as written essays: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://tinyurl.com/7k82vd8s⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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Artists, Jennifer Coates, David Humphrey and Catherine Haggarty and are back for Part 3 of our series on Drawing. This time we switched things up and each artist brought both an artwork from art history and a related work of their own to discuss. Get ready to hear some vivid "ekphrasis" on our drawing picks (new vocab word unlocked-thanks, David!).

Jennifer brought “The Castle with the Angel” 1863 by Victor Hugo and her own mixed media on yupo drawing “Heads in the Brambles” 2025

David brought Odilon Redon's "Self Portrait" 1880 and his own painted drawing "Before the Couch” 2023

Catherine brought Catherine Murphy's “Rose's Coloring Book” 2011 and her own wax crayon work "Bus Drawing" 2024

Amy brought Paul Klee's "Ugly Angel" 1939 and her own graphite drawing "Reversal (Ingres)" 2024

Other artworks mentioned: The Sketchbooks of John Constable, Eugene Delacroix and JMW Turner, Catherine Murphy "In the Grass" 2011, Kerry James Marshall "Untitled" 2009, Paul Klee "Untitled (Last Still Life)" 1940, "Still Ugly Angel" 1940, "Vigilant Angel" 1939, "Bell Angel" 1939, "Doubting Angel" 1939, "Angel in a Crisis II" 1939 , "Mis- Angel " 1939, "Angelus Novus" 1920, "Angel of Care on a Steep Road" 1931

Books mentioned: "Hunchback of Notre Dame" and "Les Miserables" by Victor Hugo, "The Angels of Paul Klee" by Boris Friedewald, "Exploring Masterpieces : a Fact-Filled Coloring Book" 1990

Artists mentioned: Victor Hugo, Odilon Redon, Catherine Murphy, Paul Klee, John Constable, Eugene Delacroix, JMW Turner, Kerry James Marshall, Josephine Halvorson, Jasper Johns (his Mind/Mirror retrospective at Whitney Museum), Judy Glantzman, Franz Marc, Jean Auguste Dominique Ingres, Jane Fine, James Esber, Erica Svec, Zachary Wollard

More about the speakers:

Jennifer Coates: ⁠⁠⁠web⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠IG⁠⁠⁠

David Humprhrey: ⁠⁠web⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠IG⁠⁠

Catherine Haggarty: ⁠⁠web⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠IG⁠

Amy Talluto: web and IG

Upcoming exhibitions:

Jennifer and David have work at 1Gap Gallery in "2>1" Curated by Michael Holden thru Jan 5, 2026 (Brooklyn)

Amy has work in:

"Eyes in the Sky" (solo) at theNextWaveGallery at SHOWROOM at Guerra Paint & Pigments curated by Nicole Castaldo thru Oct 31, 2025 (Maspeth-Queens)

"Often I am Permitted to Return to a Meadow" at Active Space curated by Patrick Bower and Robert Zurer of Immaterial Projects Nov 7 - Nov 22, 2025 (Bushwick-Brooklyn)

"A Gnawing Thought " at Utopia Gallery curated by Mandolyn Wilson Rosen Dec 6 -Jan 24, 2026 (Kingston, NY)

"Relic" at Platform Project Space curated by Alyssa Fanning, Michael Lee and Patrick Neal Jan 30-Feb 5, 2026 (Dumbo-Brooklyn)

Congrats to Catherine and Andrew Prayzner on their beautiful baby girl, Juliette Margaret!

Thank you for listening!

All music by Soundstripe

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Pep Talks on IG: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@peptalksforartists⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Pep Talks Website: ⁠⁠https://www.peptalksforartists.com/⁠⁠

Amy, your beloved host, on IG: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@talluts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Amy's website: ⁠⁠https://www.amytalluto.com/⁠⁠

Pep Talks on Art Spiel as written essays: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://tinyurl.com/7k82vd8s⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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This is an episode about how acting on dumb ideas in the studio can be just the thing to get you out of artist's block or help you make a big change. Get ready for some choice bon mots from the likes of Weird Al Yankovic, Laurie Anderson, William Kentridge and others on the sage subject of being open to studio stupidity.

Mentions: Weird Al Yankovic, Laurie Anderson, William Kentridge, Jack Whitten, Epictetus, Susan Sontag, Mister T, Twyla Tharp

Writings mentioned:

https://brooklynrail.org/2022/06/art/Laurie-Anderson-with-Paul-D-Miller/

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/06/magazine/laurie-anderson.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/17/podcasts/the-daily/laurie-anderson.html

https://screencrush.com/weird-al-yankovic-interview/

https://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2014/08/13/his-own-wavelength/

The Creative Habit: Learn It and Use It for Life by Twyla Tharp

https://shop.hauserwirth.com/products/jack-whitten-notes-from-the-woodshed-updated-edition?_pos=1&_psq=notes+from+&_ss=e&_v=1.0

Thanks for listening!

All music by Soundstripe

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Pep Talks on IG: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@peptalksforartists⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Amy, your beloved host, on IG: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@talluts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Pep Talks on Art Spiel as written essays: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://tinyurl.com/7k82vd8s⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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*Disclaimer: This episode is meant to be funny and Amy would love to attend any of the aforementioned residencies. Please accept her if you find yourself on a panel. End disclaimer.*

Just got rejected from an artists' residency? Well, this is the mini-episode for you because I am going to let you in on a little technique I use to feel better. There's a curse word abundantly used throughout, so listen far away from small ears, Dear Listener!

(Unless the small ears are pets-pets don't have language centers in their brains so it's safe.)

I was a bit harsh on St Martin in the ep, and he did do a bit more than I gave him credit for: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_de_Porres ... but he's still a deep cut.

Did I tell you that my confirmation name was "Melania"? Didn't age well!

Thank you!

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Pep Talks on IG: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@peptalksforartists⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Amy, your beloved host, on IG: ⁠⁠⁠⁠@talluts⁠⁠⁠⁠

Pep Talks on Art Spiel as written essays: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://tinyurl.com/7k82vd8s⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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This is a little episode about how I think a one-of-a-kind whale is kind of like the 16th -17th century Mannerist artist El Greco, and also like us. It sounds a little far fetched but admit it, you like me when I’m weird, you weirdo’s

El Greco:

Artworks mentioned: “The Vision of St John” 1608-14 and "View of Toledo" 1599-1600 (El Greco), “Les Desmoiselles D’Avignon" 1907 (Picasso), "Rocks at Fontainbleu" 1890's (Cézanne)

Artists mentioned: Vincent Van Gogh, Paul Cézanne, Hilma Af Klint, Pablo Picasso, Eugène De la Croix, Salvador Dali, Michelangelo, Caravaggio, Diego Velázquez, Titian, Tintoretto, Ignacio Zuloaga

Writers mentioned: Emily Dickinson, Franz Kafka, Roger Fry

Learn more about El Greco's figurine models with a fascinating lecture by Xavier Bray for the Frick Collection: https://youtu.be/_8xYkflNbU0?si=eCIL_P-tFdtPbDmOThe Whale:

Watch the documentary: https://www.kanopy.com/en/product/loneliest-whale?frontend=kui

Articles:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scotttravers/2025/02/01/the-52-hertz-whale-is-the-loneliest-animal-in-the-world-heres-what-we-know/

https://www.iflscience.com/fact-check-has-the-world-s-loneliest-whale-finally-found-a-friend-65797

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/13

https://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode/inside-the-nail-biting-quest-to-find-the-loneliest-whale/

Thanks for listening!

Greek music "Greek Bouzouki Sentimental 13" by Omegamusic / Marios Georgiades / Nicosia, Cyprus

Whale songs courtesy of PMEL Pacific Marine Environmental Laboratory

All other music and sound effects by Soundstripe

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Pep Talks on IG: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@peptalksforartists⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Pep Talks website: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.peptalksforartists.com/⁠⁠⁠

Amy, your beloved host, on IG: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@talluts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Pep Talks on Art Spiel as written essays: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://tinyurl.com/7k82vd8s⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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::CW: during the Kathe Kollwitz section, we discuss a print dealing with sexual assault::

Jennifer and I are back with our bushel baskets of researched artists of the past to soothe our shattered nerves. Tune in to hear about 6 artists that made exceptional work under strained circumstances: Käthe Kollwitz, John of Arderne - medieval surgeon and margin doodler, Gustav Metzger, William Gropper, David Hammons and Joan Miró.

Käthe Kollwitz notes:

"Käthe Kollwitz" exhibtion at MOMA May-June 2024

Emile Zola's novel "Germinal" 1885

"Scene from 'Germinal" 1893

"A Weavers' Revolt" series 1893-1897

Gerhart Hauptmann's play "The Weavers" 1892

"The Mothers" 1918

"Never Again" 1924

"R-ped" 1907

Francisco de Goya's "Disasters of War" series

Otto Dix "Der Krieg" 1924

John of Arderne notes:

Medical Treatises England: c.1376, re-copied and 1475-1500Sp Coll MS Hunter 251 (U.4.9) (see more here and here)

Misericord seatrest carvings in English medieval churches

Gustave Metzger notes:

The Viennese Actionists

Artist, David Bomberg

"Auto-destructive Art" 1961 London performance

"Flailing Trees" 2009

"Remember Nature" 2015

"Table" c.1957-8

The Fluxus movement

Documentary "Lifeline: Clyfford Still"

William Gropper notes:

"America: It's Folklore" 1946

Francisco de Goya's "Los Caprichos" series 1798

French political artist, Honoré Daumier

"Blacklist" and "Environment" from Gropper's Capriccios series 1953–57

David Hammons notes:

"The Melt Goes on Forever: The Art & Times of David Hammons" Documentary 2022

Artist, Charles White

Artist, Betye Saar

"Bliz-aard Ball Sale" Performance New York, NY 1983

"Body Prints" 1968–1979

"Hair and Wire, Venice Beach" 1977

"Untitled" circa 1980s

"Higher Goals" 1983; 1986

"Untitled (Night Train)" 1989

Artist, Rachel Whiteread

Joan Miró notes:

Ballet Russes

Artist, Henri Matisse

"Mori el Merma" (Death to Merma) Theatrical collaboration with the Barcelona puppet troupe, La Claca, headed by Joan Baixas 1978 (watch here)

"Ubu Roi" by Alfred Jarry 1896

Artist, Meg Lipke

Current studio daemons: olm, volcano snail, and a rare algae of Blick Mead called Hildenbrandia

Thank you, Jennifer!

Jennifer' website: https://www.jenniferlcoates.com/

Jennifer on IG: https://www.instagram.com/jennifercoates666/

All music by Soundstripe

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Pep Talks on IG: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@peptalksforartists⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Pep Talks website: ⁠⁠https://www.peptalksforartists.com/⁠⁠

Amy, your beloved host, on IG: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@talluts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Pep Talks on Art Spiel as written essays: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://tinyurl.com/7k82vd8s⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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Today's episode is a special conversation and recap of Elisabeth Condon and my experiences collaborating as visual artists in the ballet project CounterPointe (now in its 12th year) produced by Norte Maar and staged at the Mark O'Donnell Theater (Brooklyn) in March 2025. Jennifer Coates kindly came on to ask us questions about making props and what it was like for 2 newbies to enter the world of dance. Thanks, Jennifer!

Special thanks also to Norte Maar and its co-directors, Julia K. Gleich and Jason Andrew for their support of artists and creative collaboration.

More information about Elisabeth and Amy's work:

Elisabeth: https://www.elisabethcondon.com/ | @elisabethcondon

Amy: https://www.amytalluto.com/ | @talluts

More information about Julia Gleich and Jason Andrew's NorteMaar & CounterPointe12: https://www.nortemaar.org/projects/counterpointe12

Julia K. Gleich's website: https://www.gleichdances.org/

Julia Gleich interview on this podcast: Episode 49

The dances we discussed:

"Vermillion | 10" by Ava Desiderio and Elisabeth Condon

Dancers: Minami Ando, Lucia Betelu

Support structures: Elise Wunderlich

Music by Zero Eklipse and William Pilarte

Lighting: Evan Spigelman

Mark O'Donnell Theater, Brooklyn, March 2025

"And So It Begins" by Margaret Wiss and Amy Talluto

Dancers: Maya Tsuruki Holden and Jaclyn Kriewall

Music by Margaret Wiss

Lighting: Evan Spigelman

Mark O'Donnell Theater, Brooklyn, March 2025

"46 Gordon" by Julia K. Gleich and Nicole Cherubini

Dancers: Michelle Buckley, Kara Chan, Annie Freeman, Amber Neff, Ethan Schweitzer-Gaslin

Lighting: Evan Spigelman

Mark O'Donnell Theater, Brooklyn, March 2025

Special thanks to Jennifer Coates for interviewing us!

Jennifer's website: https://www.jenniferlcoates.com/

Jennifer on IG: @jennifercoates666

Artists mentioned: Henri Matisse, William Kentridge, Florine Stettheimer, Keisha Prioleau Martin, Meg Lipke, Elana Herzog, Nicole Cherubini, Alvin Ailey, Judith Jamison (Dancer), Julia K. Gleich (Choreographer), Jason Andrew

Dances mentioned: "Afternoon of a Faun" by the Ballet Russes, “Minutiae” (1954) Robert Rauschenberg and Merce Cunningham, "Cry" Alvin Ailey

Video mentioned: "How to Make Theater Props" by Eric Bucklein (not actually old but young) https://youtu.be/JSl5Vc8mej0?si=KWGdOxnijBiEEGZc

Book mentioned: Inigo Philbrick "All That Glitters: A Story of Friendship, Fraud, and Fine Art"

Exhibition mentioned: "Edges of Ailey" at the Whitney

All music by Soundstripe

----------------------------

Pep Talks on IG: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@peptalksforartists⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Pep Talks website: ⁠https://www.peptalksforartists.com/⁠

Amy, your beloved host, on IG: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@talluts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Pep Talks on Art Spiel as written essays: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://tinyurl.com/7k82vd8s⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BuyMeACoffee⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Donations always appreciated!