Ever since he rose to the top of the Catholic Church in 2013, Pope Francis has had a reputation in international media as a moderniser. His forthright defence of the environment, and unprecedented outreach to members of the LGBT community, are examples of progressive positions which have caused friction with more conservative members of the faith. But a recent document released by the Vatican, headlined by its staunch opposition to gender reassignment and surrogacy, is now challenging that liberal image.

So how should we define the Pope’s ideology? On this episode, Mark Lowen is joined by the BBC’s Religion Editor Aleem Maqbool, and long-time Vatican reporter Delia Gallagher. They consider the conflicting expectations from liberal and conservative Catholics, and ask how Pope Francis might be planning for both his legacy and eventual successor.

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This episode was made by Laurie Kalus and Alix Pickles. The technical producers were Mike Regaard and Frank McWeeny. The assistant editor is Sergi Forcada Freixas and the senior news editor is Sam Bonham.