Globalization was once viewed as economic destiny: it would spread prosperity worldwide, destroy authoritarian regimes, and counterbalance industrial decline with innovation and growth. The reality has been far more negative, with communities hollowed out and a political landscape defined by resentment of elites, strategic rivalry with China, and skepticism that the system was ever meant to support American workers.

One of the leading architects of globalization, Ernesto Zedillo, former Mexican president and professor at the Yale Jackson School of Global Affairs, joins Oren to make the case that the old international trade system remains sound and that the real failures lie in domestic policy and the lack of institutional reform. During the conversation, Oren presses him on whether those explanations can withstand the reality of deindustrialization, supply-chain vulnerability, and worker displacement.

Together, they examine what went wrong, what defenders of the old order still believe, and whether the next technological wave will intensify the debate rather than resolve it.