Recovery After Stroke

Recovery After Stroke

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Recovery After Stroke episodes

  • Mini-Stroke Recovery | Rachel McLaughlin

    Rachel McLaughlin had a MINI-STROKE at age 44 and has been on the road to recovery ever since.

    Highlights:

    03:55 Introduction

    10:06 Stroke symptoms and diagnosis
    18:15 Light sensitivity and driving after a stroke
    24:05 Daily challenges and fatigue
    34:38 Dealing with mental challenges
    49:47 The hardest things about stroke
    52:07 Lessons from the stroke

    Transcript:

    Rachel McLaughlin 0:00

    Often when I’m talking to somebody, I will just forget what I’m saying. And just stop serving that sentence. And the other day in the kitchen I was, I caught myself just standing there and sort of staring around the kitchen, I had no idea what I’d been doing. It took quite a few minutes for me to realize that I’ve been washing the dishes and stuff, I do feel quite a great sense of loss from who I used to be because I’m not that person anymore.

    Intro 0:31

    This is the Recovery after Stroke podcast. With Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after stroke.

    Bill 0:44

    Hello, and welcome to the Recovery after Stroke podcast. First, a quick book update. Well, my book The Unexpected Way That Stroke Became the Best Thing That Happened Is Not Live Yet. It has been uploaded to the distributor, but we can’t see the listing on Amazon as yet. This process takes way longer than I could ever possibly have imagined.

    Bill 1:10

    And we should be very close. And I’ll make sure to let everyone know when it is live. In the meantime, if you still want to grab the first chapter of the book free, just go to recoveryafterstroke.com/book Fill out your details and a PDF of the free chapter will be sent to you in your email.

    Bill 1:32

    Thank you to everyone who has already left a review on Spotify and iTunes, they are starting to go up. And there are quite a lot of reviews now are appreciate it. So recently, what I’ve noticed is there’s been a ton of people contacting me and letting me know that they just found the podcast and it has changed their life for the better.

    Bill 1:57

    Rachel, in this particular interview, I’ll introduce in a moment even talks about how the podcast has made a difference to her stroke recovery. And that’s why the reviews are important because the more people leave a review, the more reasons Spotify and iTunes have to present the podcast as an option for listening.

    Bill 2:19

    And that just helps stroke survivors. And that’s what this podcast is all about. It’s about us helping each other to navigate this thing that we have to deal with now. So I appreciate all of the reviews if you haven’t left the review, and you’d love to and you want to make a difference to somebody just by simply leaving a review and doing nothing else.

    Bill 2:42

    Just go to Spotify or iTunes. Leave a comment a little bit about what the show means to you leave a five-star review. And that’s it job done. Thank you so much. Take a few minutes, I appreciate it. If you’re watching on YouTube, comment below the video I love seeing them or respond to them.

    Bill 3:03

    And, and also like the video hit the notifications Bell and subscribe to the show. And again, we’re seeing real good growth in the numbers both on YouTube and on Spotify and iTunes. And I’ll be releasing the date, the numbers at the end of the year, the numbers of how well the podcast has done this year, compared to all the other years that it has existed.

    Bill 3:35

    So it’s amazing what has happened in the last 12 months compared to the first five years the first more than five years of this podcast. It’s amazing what is happening. And I’ll share that in a future episode I’ve got the final numbers for the last 12 months.

    Introduction – Rachel McLaughlin


    Bill 3:55
    This is episode 279. My guest today is Rachel McLaughlin who experienced a transient ischemic attack, also referred to as a TIA when she was aged 44 which has led to a loss of identity amongst other things. Rachel McLaughlin, welcome to the podcast.

    Rachel McLaughlin 4:14

    Thank you for having me.

    Bill 4:17

    I have a lot of trauma that I need to tell you about it’s not your fault. But I used to have Mr. McLaughlin who was a primary school principal who was tough as tough can be and I’m pretty sure he gave me back in the day corporal punishment he gave me the strap on the hand for misbehaving. And, I think that name was also a name that I used to hear in high school, so nothing personal. Just wanted to mention that and get it off my chest. Thanks for Joining me on the podcast though.

    Rachel McLaughlin 5:02

    You’re welcome. Thanks for having me.

    Bill 5:04

    Tell me a little bit about what happened to you.

    Rachel McLaughlin 5:08

    So at the end of May, this year, I experienced a transient ischemic attack. And I was about two o’clock in the morning, and I woke up and as my husband said, I think I’m having a heart attack. So we sort of didn’t know what to do. I hadn’t been feeling unwell or anything previously. So I rang Healthline, and they were like, we’re bringing trigger ambulance now.

    Rachel McLaughlin 5:43

    And, yeah, I ended up in hospital. I was an ad for a few hours till the early hours of the morning, and then transferred up to you eventually, actually, later on that day, up to the neurology ward. I stayed in for a couple of nights, and then I got sent home. And they said, come back on a Monday morning.

    Rachel McLaughlin 6:13

    So basically, there was not gonna be anybody around over the weekend, that would be able to sort of help or deal with anything. So I got sent home, I went back Monday morning, nobody knew who I was, or why I was there, spent another sort of 24 hours there. And I like to look, we don’t, we don’t know what’s going on, we’re just gonna send you home.

    Rachel McLaughlin 6:36

    And if you have any more issues, just, you know, come straight back and tell them what’s been happening. So I was there, when I woke up with the pain, then, when I first went into ad, sorry, this falling out. I had a sharp pain in the right side of my chest, and then a bit of pain down my right arm.

    Rachel McLaughlin 7:07

    And that was sort of that was I had a bit of numbness and tingling. But that was about it. And by the time the ambulance got to me, it was it had sort of all passed. But they took me in any way. I didn’t find out for quite a while that I had had a stroke. And so I sort of ended up getting sent home and told that I would be fine.

    Rachel McLaughlin 7:35

    And I could just carry on with life as normal. I said to the doctor that was discharging me on the second time I’d been to the hospital, but I didn’t feel comfortable just being sent home because I didn’t know what was going on or, and I had sort of quite an intense fear that it was going to happen again.

    Rachel McLaughlin 7:58

    And they told me that I’d be fine to go back to work. And I said, I said I work at a special needs school, but a very intense environment. And I do not feel comfortable going back to school at the moment. So he gave me a certificate for a month’s leave. And then that sort of I was at home trying to cope with whatever this was. And it’s been a really interesting journey.

    Bill 8:35

    Tell me about it my gosh, so what what symptoms did you present with?

    Rachel McLaughlin 8:42

    When they took me in, it was simply just the pain that I’d had in the side of my chest. So it felt like there was a balloon or something in there. And it just sort of like pop. And it was a sharp sort of sudden pain and the pain down the way. And that was that was it? Because I’ve been asleep, there could have been other things going on. I just wasn’t aware of them.

    Bill 9:06

    So when you went to the hospital with a TIA, and they gave you the TIA diagnosis, they were the only two symptoms that you went to.

    Rachel McLaughlin 9:14

    They were not only symptoms, but they did do a lot of testing when I was in there. So MRIs, CTS. So it turns out that I have had quite a few mini strokes in the past. They don’t know when I’ve had them or why I’ve had them. And they’ve never affected me to the point where I’m unable to work or hasn’t affected my speech or anything like that.

    Bill 9:46

    So is that obvious on a brain scan? Could they see that?

    Rachel McLaughlin 9:51

    Yeah. So that’s kind of scary in itself, knowing those have been going on and I you know haven’t been able to? Well, I just didn’t even know that they were happening.

    Mini Stroke symptoms and diagnosis

    Bill 10:06

    Yeah, that is interesting. So there’s an underlying cause. Has there been any type of information to say, we think it might be this or?

    Rachel McLaughlin 10:19

    With all the tests and scans and stuff that they did, they also ran. Again, this was quiet, this went on for a while, and they found a hole in my heart. Well, they thought that found a hole in my heart. But they know signal it wasn’t. Then I was catching up with my GP. And he was like, yeah, no, you’re going home. And I was like, no, but they said I didn’t have one.

    Rachel McLaughlin 10:46

    And he’s like, Oh, no, you have. So about a month ago, I had a, what’s it called at trends, esophageal, thing with a Papa, we camera thing down your throat to have a look at that with the whole is.

    Rachel McLaughlin 11:08

    And I need to see the cardiologist to organize when that might be fixed. And when they did that procedure, the cardiologist came to see me afterward. But I was really out of it and couldn’t wake up. And so all I know, is that the size of the hole, they believe that it’s worth fixing. So but I don’t know when that will happen.

    Bill 11:42

    Okay, this is in New Zealand. Yeah. Yeah. So there was there wasn’t anything in hindsight now that you recall that you might say, well, maybe that was a mini-stroke. Did you have no clue what’s over the years?

    Rachel McLaughlin 12:02

    Now that I look back on it, I remember I was driving a couple of years ago, I used to during the week, I used to work at a school about an hour’s drive from Christchurch. And I used to come back to Christchurch on the weekend. And I remember driving back one afternoon, and I had to pull over because I had this sort of sharp pain in my chest.

    Rachel McLaughlin 12:28

    I don’t remember whether it was the side or whereabouts it was. And I had an I did have pain down my arm like quite severe pain. So I pulled off to the side of the road, and it passed, nothing came of it. There were no other signs. And yeah, I just carried off. Yeah, that would have been a good couple of years ago that that happened.

    Rachel McLaughlin 12:55

    So yeah, so I mean, there’s quite a bit going on all at that time, there was quite a bit going on. My dad has been unwell. He had sepsis at the time and was also in hospital with both hospital exams done. And we thought he was going to die. But anyway, I sort of said to the doctor, when I saw them, I was like, ah, you know, can stress cause stroke?

    Rachel McLaughlin 13:23

    And he said stress doesn’t cause a stroke. He said it will exacerbate underlying symptoms, but it doesn’t cause it. But they did find out also that my Wow, yeah, blood pressure was extremely high was 20 over 200 When the ambulance picked me up.

    Bill 13:43

    So well done, Rachel, that’s well done that you’re still here and telling me that that’s good. Yeah.

    Rachel McLaughlin 13:51

    The ambulance where people were just like, how are you still? Like, you know.

    Bill 13:59

    Managing, do you notice that it’s high? Do you know? Do you have any type of feeling that something’s going on?

    Rachel McLaughlin 14:08

    No, the doctors sort of said, again, this would be a good year, two years ago my blood pressure was a wee bit higher, but it was only like, it was 150 ish. Sort of it wasn’t, you know, but they were gonna keep an eye on it. And then yeah, nothing ever came of that. So. Okay, I just carried on.

    Bill 14:28

    And now when you left the hospital, did you leave with any stroke-related deficits that you had to overcome?

    Rachel McLaughlin 14:37

    So we know at least I was very tired in there like that. That’s normal. But you’re, you’re walking you’re talking. You know, you’re fine. You’ll be okay. And I was like, Okay, great. So I’ll recover and I’ll just carry on.

    Rachel McLaughlin 14:56

    So, I ended up coming back to work. So my school job had gone down to three days just before the stroke happened. And then the other tool three days a week, I was helping a friend at the dance studio, just doing sort of admin and bits and pieces. And so I went back to the studio job, which sort of was spread out.

    Rachel McLaughlin 15:24

    And then just one day at school, and then I, yeah, a couple of weeks ago, I just, I wasn’t coping at all well, with anything. And I’ve realized in the last little while that my cognitive function is quite severely impaired, in terms of just not being able to, get through things, I can’t process quickly. I get tired, I, my brain sort of, kind of, I hit the wall, the best way to describe it, and I just stopped and I can’t keep going.

    Bill 16:16

    You hit the wall, compared to previously, because you’ve hit the wall before. Say you hit the wall at 9:30 pm After going all day, not eating, you know, resting. What’s it like now? How soon do you hit the wall?

    Rachel McLaughlin 16:34

    After a day at school usually, well, I don’t do a full day at school, I usually leave between one and two o’clock because I have to it’s quite a drive from where I live. And usually when I get home, that’s me for the rest of the day. And night. This last week, Wednesday was a really good day, it was my school day, and I was still going up to school.

    Rachel McLaughlin 17:02

    But I think that’s because I’ve stopped the other job at the moment. And so at the moment, it’s just that one day, and I sort of feel like I can cope. Yeah, I get bad headaches, and severe nausea still. And that’s often what can keep me in bed for the day. And some days, most days, I do have to have a rest around about sort of one or two o’clock like I have to go to bed, shut the curtains.

    Rachel McLaughlin 17:36

    So like intense light bothers me. And that was something that I did talk to the doctors about. Before my stroke, I was struggling a little bit with sort of light sensitivity. And like on a computer, like for too long that was bothering me. So I think perhaps there were underlying things going on. But you know, I just sort of passed them off. And they sort of were manageable, I guess.

    Light sensitivity and driving after a mini-stroke


    Bill 18:15
    Light sensitivity is a big deal. And so are computer screens, and people pass it off as my eyes are tired or you know, been working too much or focusing or I need glasses, all those types of things. They’re all legitimate. But sometimes they do mask the fact that the brightness and the type of light that comes out of screens, and then fluorescent lighting that comes out of those long fluorescent light bulbs to the wavelength is too difficult for a neurologically impaired brain to deal with.

    Bill 18:54

    And I remember when I was working in an office for a little while after I became unwell, I was wearing my sunglasses inside in front of a monitor. And it was helping because, without it, I couldn’t stare at the light it was just too much. And there’s one monitor on your left on one monitor on the right in these offices these days.

    Bill 19:20

    And it was just a really big deal. So today, it still bothers me I’ve got a light on top of my monitor. To my right, I’ve got a light on my left for the camera. I’ve got two monitors, three monitors in front of me. And I often finish these episodes with you know, like pain or something I don’t know. It’s even painful but it’s just general fatigue of my brain from that one-hour or two-hour stint in front of the computer.

    Bill 19:55

    And at home on purpose to decrease the impact that light has on my brain. At night, we don’t have lights on above the head, we have lamps with warm, yellowish kind of lights that are just sitting in the corner and light up that general area. But don’t light up my brain.

    Intro 20:21

    If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. How long will it take to recover? Will I recover? What things should I avoid? In case I make matters worse, doctors will explain things.

    Intro 20:40

    But, if you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask. If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you it’s called Seven Questions to Ask Your Doctor about your Stroke.

    Intro 21:05

    These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition, they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery. Head to the website now recover after Stroke.com and download the guide. It’s free.

    Rachel McLaughlin 21:24

    Yeah, I’ve got a lamp beside my bed. And I also have a lamp in the corner of the sort of lounge room with a TV. And yeah, I often turn the night off to put that on, I just find it easier. Yeah, it helps the car and I wear sunglasses pretty much all the time now, especially when I’m driving. Driving, which I find incredibly difficult, would be one of my big things. Which, um, well, initially, it was changing gears.

    Rachel McLaughlin 22:02

    So I have a manual. And, it took me quite a while to be comfortable with that again. And then it’s just I think it’s the overstimulation of all the other traffic around me and having, you know, I’m in my car, and I’ve got to be aware of everything. So the other day when my mum came in, she did the driving and took me around, so I could do all my stuff.

    Rachel McLaughlin 22:28

    And it was nice because I didn’t sort of feel that tiredness and overwhelmed after a day of all day, and out. And yeah, so I’ve realized that driving is a big part of why I get tired. And the concentration. So the place that I used to work at, is actually where my mom lives over in Accra. And I can’t do the drive over there. Now, in the last school holidays, I went over. And I was down for about three or four days because it was just too much.

    Bill 23:06

    Yeah, and a hay field outside of after brain surgery was our way to travel to see a friend of mine who was about three or four hours away from where I live. And the whole intention was to go there into the little bit of a project that we’re all collaborating on together. But I said to him, I can’t come out there and just sit there for this project, record what we had to record, and then go home, I’m gonna have to stay at your place, which he was very comfortable for me to do.

    Bill 23:34

    But it was such a big deal to be there and have to stay there and not be able to just drive home, it was completely like the me of the past. And I know a lot of stroke survivors will relate to what you said about all of the concentration or the things flowing by making sure that you’re driving safely and doing all the regular things that you wouldn’t have to think of changing gear.

    Daily challenges and fatigue

    Bill 24:05

    Now you’ve got to think about everything and my left leg is the one that is affected. So now I can’t drive I can drive manual or stick shift as some people call it. But I can’t feel the pedal. And sometimes I forget that my leg is on the brake and instead of changing gears, I break time when I’m supposed to be hitting the clutch.

    Bill 24:35

    And it’s just crazy. It’s ridiculous, It’s unsafe. So I made sure that I didn’t have a manual car. But a couple of times when we’ve been on trips we’ve tried to hire a car to drive around. There’s not an A there’s not an automatic car available and they make you hire a manual not understanding that It’s almost impossible to use.

    Bill 25:02

    And that’s a problem. To drive a manual, I have to drive barefoot so that I can physically feel the pedal under my leg. And even then, it’s not ideal because, yeah, I can’t, I can’t judge him much pressure to put on the pedal. It’s just everything is different. It’s just so hard.

    Bill 25:28

    So they’re pretty standard deficits, and pretty common for stroke survivors to experience. What’s it like being around the family? Do you have a large family, and you’re having trouble at home, managing all of the tasks and duties that you have?

    Rachel McLaughlin 25:51

    So I love my husband and our two children. So Daniels, is 17, and Annabelle is 13 I’m really glad they are older. I can’t imagine going through this with young kids. Like it’s, you know if I’m having my bed day, which are you reasonably regularly, you know, and I’m still pretty much in the same position when the kids get home from when they lived.

    Rachel McLaughlin 26:21

    I struggle with hanging the washing out I struggle with, I don’t cook very much now. Which is not a bad thing. But you know, silly things like changing the bid, like the sheets, cleaning the bathroom, the toilet, I just, you know, I can maybe do one of those jobs a day. But if I do, that’s pretty much me done for the entire day.

    Rachel McLaughlin 26:55

    I just, I don’t, I don’t cope with anything. So my, what happens is by like, my chest, really sort of constricts tightens. And breathing becomes incredibly difficult. And I just get really tired. Like, it’s, it’s kind of more than fatigue, it’s just this. It’s hit the wall. I actually can’t do it anymore. So the great thing about my family is they have kind of learned to read the signs.

    Rachel McLaughlin 27:34

    And yeah, they do. You know, we’ll just say, just go and lie down. I did, I had a really good day yesterday, we actually, as a family managed to go to one of the malls. And then we went into the central city and did a bit of stuff on there. But I have been pretty tired today. Sort of wasn’t too sure whether I was going to manage to talk to you today because I was like, Oh my gosh, it might have been a wave at lunch yesterday.

    Bill 28:05

    Yeah, there’s a price to pay, isn’t it? And sometimes, you’ve got to pay the price I used to plan to have nothing to do. After a big day, if I knew that I had a big day coming up. Maybe we had to go to an event or something I knew the following day. There was nothing planned, we did nothing I had, and it was a bonus if I felt well enough to go and attend to something else. But it was expected that I wouldn’t be doing anything.

    Bill 28:31

    Even now. Sometimes it still does crop up from wasted the next day. I described the fatigue to my counselor yesterday as if you’re driving a car. And to start the motor, you need a battery. So you start the car. And to benefit from the battery.

    Bill 28:58

    I have a car that was built in the 1900s. And I’m cranking the motor at the front with the crank to get it started. And then and then you know the effort is just that much different if you’ve ever seen the old videos of people trying to crank a motor. That’s a difference. It’s pushing a button or a key to all that.

    Rachel McLaughlin 29:31

    Yeah, that’s an accurate description. So when I saw the neurologist, which would be maybe a couple of months ago now. He said that because of the whole of my heart. He said I need to do the only exercise they want me to do is a gentle walk. Because if I push myself too much, there’s the worry that, you know, a clot or something will pop through the hole again.

    Rachel McLaughlin 30:11

    So, we live sort of right down at the start of a little valley, and it’s a dead end. So I try every day to walk the dog up the hill. That’s not a big hill up the Valley Road. And there are days that when I’ve done that, that’s pretty much it. That’s me done. And I’ll be back to bed.

    Bill 30:37

    I know exactly how you feel. It used to happen to me from the couch to the toilet. Ridiculous. But that task was one of the biggest tasks of my day, for a long time. Thankfully, that is off. And going for a walk is, I would have to say that Rachel, that’s still a really good thing, that you’ve gone for the walk, you’ve been out, you’ve done the exercise. And, now you’re understanding it’s time to rest and recuperate. And, and, and it’ll get better, but it is what it is for now because you’re very early on in the recovery phase.

    Rachel McLaughlin 31:13

    Yeah. And I think also, I realize now that I probably went back to too much work too soon. And that’s probably also hindered my recovery in the last few months anyway. You know, I sort of just, yeah, I was pushing through when I shouldn’t have been pushing through months, you know, you sort of do what you think you have to do at the time.

    Bill 31:40

    You don’t know, you don’t know until you do it. And it’s good that you know, now you know where your limit is. And you know, that you have to ease your way to the next milestone, we’ll call it rather than, you know, try and push towards it. Just just get there gently. And then, and then reassess. It probably didn’t hinder your ongoing recovery by pushing too early.

    Bill 32:06

    You may have just put too much time and effort into something that wasn’t going to get you supposed results or was going to make you feel like you weren’t capable. So now that you know that and it’s out of the way you can, you can move forward with a little bit more.

    Bill 32:26

    Well, I’m not sure what the word is. I don’t know if it’s accuracy, but with a little bit of opportunity where you’ve got informed, you know, a little more informed, moving forward. So it’s good that you work that out, even though it was hard, maybe a hard lesson at the time.

    Rachel McLaughlin 32:46

    Yeah, yeah.

    Bill 32:50

    So are you on any medications? Did they give you any blood thinners or anything to keep that underlying potential of another clot forming under control?

    Rachel McLaughlin 33:05

    Yeah, so I’m on blood thinners, I’m on blood pressure medication, I’m on cholesterol medication? I’m something else, I can’t think of what it is. Yeah, so I take quite a few bits and pieces. It’s funny. In one of your previous podcasts, I listened to you talking to somebody about checking in with the doctors and making sure that the medication you’re taking is what you need to be taking because like the cholesterol I was currently but who you were talking to?

    Rachel McLaughlin 33:46

    And they were like, you know, I don’t have high cholesterol. So, I talked to my GP about that. And he was really happy with what I was on. And he said it’s still very early days. And he said often what can happen is your cholesterol can become an issue after a stroke.

    Rachel McLaughlin 34:06

    So he feels comfortable at the stage that I stay on that for now. But some Yeah, so I’ve also because I wasn’t coping very well, with my mental health. I’ve also put myself on some low-dose antidepressants. I think they are making a difference. But I also wonder if they contribute to some of my tiredness as well.

    Bill 34:35

    I think you might be right there.

    Rachel McLaughlin 34:37

    Yeah.

    Rachel McLaughlin dealing with mental challenges


    Bill 34:38
    Tell me about that mental health part if you can. So when you say your mental health has been affected. How has it been affected? What are you aware of that has become an issue since the stroke or is this kind Of mental health challenge that you’re having now, something that is a little bit of overflow from previous mental health challenges that you left unattended?

    Rachel McLaughlin 35:12

    I think some of it is from before the stroke, it’s mental health issues do run in my family, specifically, my dad has a lot of mental health issues was severe. But part of the problem was, I would sort of get stuck on something to do with my stroke, like, I’m not going to get better or, you know, adjust, I would spiral into this real sort of negative mindset. And I would cry, I couldn’t talk to anyone about my stroke without crying.

    Rachel McLaughlin 35:53

    And I’ve always been a fairly emotional person. But this this was beyond a joke. This was just and when I saw the neurologist, he just said to me, he said, We need to get you on to the 90 depressants so that you can talk about this without crying, because I wasn’t necessarily upset, but I would just cry.

    Rachel McLaughlin 36:14

    So yeah, and there are just there are days when it just feels like everything just feels a bit too much. And it’s overwhelming. And I just, I think sometimes I feel like I can’t see a way forward. And like, I know, that I’m early on in my journey. One of the great things about finding your podcasts, which I didn’t find to look up a month ago, is that hearing what’s happening to me is common. You know, we all experience things slightly differently.

    Rachel McLaughlin 36:51

    But it’s, you know, there are commonalities there for? Yeah, for what’s happening to me those things happen to other people. And I think it sort of, you know, it makes it a little bit easier, to accept, I guess. And like, because right at the start, when it all first happened, nobody could tell me exactly what was going on.

    Rachel McLaughlin 37:19

    And the doctors didn’t give me any information. And to be fair, I think, initially, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t have been able to process the information, you know, in a, and maybe that’s why they don’t give you lots of information when you’re, you know, unwell.

    Rachel McLaughlin 37:40

    But now that I’m starting to understand a bit more about, you know, how, where the hole is how, you know, it affects your heart and stuff. And yeah, I think with a bit more understanding on it a bit more accepting of the fact that, yeah, that’s what’s happened.

    Bill 38:02

    That’s fair enough to at 44. All of a sudden, there’s a hole in your heart, you’ve had strokes, you’ve had strokes you weren’t aware of that you’ve had, you know, so it’s fair enough that this thing is overwhelming, and it’s going to cause a little bit of wealth adjustment, to put it mildly.

    Bill 38:21

    And, you know, where do you start to deal with all of this, and also, you’re feeling fatigued, then neurologically and cognitively, you’re not? Where you remember yourself being a few months ago, you know, so it’s, it’s a shitstorm coming together real quick, and you’ve got to go, Well, hang on a sec. I need space. I need time to process this. You know, a lot is going on with the crying. Have you heard of the pseudobulbar effect?

    Rachel McLaughlin 38:49

    Yeah, well, only because you’ve talked about it with other people.

    Bill 38:52

    That’s a big one, right? It’s really common for people to cry. In Episode 200, and which one was it, 211 I interviewed will pare wood. Will is the most impacted crier from a stroke that I’ve ever met, he cries all the time. He said that at his wedding. He is dehydrated, basically, because of all the crying that he did.

    Bill 39:24

    You know, when his child was born, same thing, you know, and it’s not like him, he doesn’t have that button. He was never really a big crier. But it’s something that happens after the stroke, that creates a condition that makes people’s emotions, kind of take this roller coaster. I’m the same. I’m just imagining myself sometimes talking on stage, and I can see myself crying on stage when I’m presenting.

    Bill 39:52

    And it’s like, what do I do? Do I pretend it’s not happening or do I just let it happen and go with it? And I think Personally, it’s better to cry, give people a bit of an understanding of why you’re crying. And for me, I just would say, well, there’s nothing wrong.

    Bill 40:10

    I’m not specifically crying because I’m upset or nothing’s happened. I don’t know what it is. I’m just crying. But the challenge with it is not that I’m doing it. It’s how other people around me feel when I’m crying. Yeah, I know, forever trying to manage them.

    Rachel McLaughlin 40:27

    Instead of me. Yeah, one of the things that I’ve been finding a bit frustrating lately is often when I’m talking to people, and you know, they can hear in my voice that I’m a bit flat and a bit low, and not very well.

    Rachel McLaughlin 40:41

    And they’re like, Oh, I’m so sorry. I’m so sorry. And I’m just like, but it’s just that to me at the moment, you know, like, and I get, they don’t know what else to say. It’s, it’s just, there’s nothing anyone can do. It is just time. And, you know, hopefully, as it goes on, it does get a heck of a lot better.

    Bill 41:04

    You know, what they can do actually, is they can become educated a little bit. And all they’ve got to do, for example, is listen to this episode with you, and your friends. If you share the episode with him and say, Hey, guys, do you want to get an insight on what it’s like to be me after a stroke? Have you listened to this?

    Rachel McLaughlin 41:25

    Yeah. And I think one of the things a lot of people sort of in my face, family circle, and friend circle is not like at work. , I don’t have any, like, physical deficits in terms of my outward appearance. I still, you know, and so, a lot of the time when I tell people, they just look at me and they go, No, you didn’t.

    Rachel McLaughlin 41:51

    Yeah, I did. Yeah. And so that’s sort of sometimes quite hard as well. But it was funny. I was at school the other day, and one of my colleagues was sitting not far from me. And I was talking to somebody else whom I hadn’t seen for ages and filling them in on what had happened. And this other lady goes, here she goes, No, you’re better. She says You don’t sound nearly as vacant as you did when you first came back.

    Bill 42:17

    That’s a backhanded compliment.

    Rachel McLaughlin 42:22

    Yeah. But, you know, it was said, with love. And yeah, it wasn’t. But it was just it was fantastic. But it was also really nice to hear that I, you know, the people that I do say, have noticed a little bit of an improvement in, you know. Yeah, because before, well, about halfway through last year, I finished my postgraduate diploma, university in literacy, that’s my sort of passion area for school.

    Rachel McLaughlin 42:55

    And my current school has been talking to me about wanting me to do my master’s and stuff. And so next year, they’ve offered me one day basically to be a research day, and use it towards my master’s if I want to. And I want to, but I just, I don’t know that I can do that right now. So we’ll wait and see.

    Rachel McLaughlin 43:20

    But like, one of the often when I’m talking to somebody, I will just forget what I’m saying. And just stop serving that sentence. And the other day in the kitchen. I was, I caught myself just standing there and sort of staring around the kitchen, I had no idea what I’d been doing. It took quite a few minutes for me to realize that I’d been washing the dishes and stuff.

    Rachel McLaughlin 43:43

    And so there’s things like that, that sort of just, they throw me when they happen, because it’s, you know, I am lucky. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think I do feel quite a great sense of loss from who I used to be. And because I’m not that person anymore.

    Bill 44:07

    Yeah. So you’re dealing with your identity change as well. So you’re dealing with medical conditions, you’re dealing with physiological differences with cognitive differences with all these differences. And now your identity has been copied on below, right so to be one.

    Bill 44:28

    The thing about identity is that I think the reason why a lot of people struggle with that is because they are very narrow in the way that they would describe themselves when you met them at a party. So if you said, hey, hey, going on, Bill. Yeah, I’m Rachel and so nice to meet you. Rachel.

    Bill 44:47

    What do you do? If the person who answers that question says, I work at a school, and that’s it, and now they’re not working at a school anymore? And then And then it’s a struggle. Because if that’s all their identity is then my gosh, then fair enough, it’s all gone. Who am I now?

    Bill 45:09

    So I think some of something that could be helpful around that is, when people are struggling with their identity, it’s to understand that you can still be a teacher, by going to school once a week, instead of five days a week, you can still be a parent, by making a cup of tea for the kids instead of a full meal.

    Bill 45:30

    Or, you know, so you kind of changed the parameters by which your identity was built, and you soften them a little or you broaden them. And then you say, you know, I’m still a mum. And I’m a mum who has or has all those tasks that I do in a different way or a different capacity now, so that you don’t miss out on the role of being a mum, I can still be a mum by giving advice.

    Bill 45:59

    Or I still be a mum by, you know, I’m not sure what but that’s, that’s what I’ve found is people that are hard and fast in their identity. And then that change becomes a real problem. In my book, there’s a chapter about that chapter three, I think it is. And I call it like people who identify themselves as being empty desks instead of empty nesters.

    Bill 46:26

    So, yeah, they have found themselves for 30 or 40 years at a desk, and now the desk has been vacated, and they are no longer sitting in it, and they are no longer sitting. And it’s okay, it’s time to re-adjust the parameters on who you are, what you do, and how you describe yourself to somebody who you’ve never met before at a party.

    Rachel McLaughlin 46:53

    These last few weeks, like, since I haven’t been doing that other job as well. It’s been really, I’ve enjoyed it, because I find that I have time to do things that I enjoy doing. So listening to music, or podcasts, or reading a book, you know, and just making time for those things.

    Rachel McLaughlin 47:18

    And, you know, coming into summer, we’ve had some really lovely days, in the last few weeks, we’ve also had some really cold days, but you know, being able to be out just I don’t do any gardening because it causes a wee bit too much. Not feeling great. So, I am, I think making the most of being at home.

    Bill 47:47

    Yeah, there is a real, there is a real pleasure to that as well. Like it’s a weird part of a stroke. I was at home probably most of the two and a half years, that I was unwell leading up to my brain surgery. And being at home and just doing things that you don’t have time to do was a bizarre benefit of being unwell.

    Bill 48:15

    And I did benefit a lot from you know, meditation, and catching up with people at lunch. And participating in tasks for the Stroke Foundation here in Australia. There’s, there was a lot of joy that came from it. I’ve attended some personal development courses. It’s just there was more time to be me and be myself. And it was strangely it was strangely amazing. It couldn’t have happened if I wasn’t unwell.

    Rachel McLaughlin 48:55

    Yeah.

    Bill 49:00

    It’s all very familiar to me. Your story is familiar. So your husband has had to step up a little bit by the sounds of things.

    Rachel McLaughlin 49:12

    Ah, yeah, he has. Yeah, he’s always been active. So even when he’s not working, he’s always doing something. And yeah, he’s been amazing. It would have been a real struggle. If we weren’t together, I probably would have to move in with my mom or something like that. He is the glue that holds everything together. So very grateful for that.

    The hardest thing about stroke for Rachel McLaughlin

    Bill 49:48

    So what’s one of the hardest things about stroke for you?

    Rachel McLaughlin 49:57

    I think for me, it’s I’m having to slow down. Just take things one, one step at a time, because I’m usually pretty busy and just, you know. Yeah, I think that’s probably one of the hardest things is just I don’t know that patience is the right word because I can be a patient person, but just gear. learning to say no. Because I’m, you know, pretty good at saying, Yeah, I’ll do that. I’ll do that. And say, actually, no, I can’t do that.

    Bill 50:38

    So slowing down and saying no. Do people still expect you to say yes? Do you find that? Or has it been pretty good?

    Rachel McLaughlin 50:53

    Yeah, so know, there’s probably one family member in particular, who would still like me to just drop everything and go, Yeah, but I’m getting better at it just saying no, and, or just not, not giving lots of options, and just saying, This is what’s going to happen. And this is when it’s going to happen. And that way I can plan for, you know, what I need for me?

    Rachel McLaughlin 51:26

    Yeah, I’ve become a lot better at putting myself first. Which is, you know, I’m a real people pleaser, so yeah, I will, I used to do anything to keep everyone happy. I sort of was, I think, that stems back to when my parents separated many years ago, was always trying to keep people happy.

    Rachel McLaughlin 51:47

    And I just continued, as I got older, and now I’m here, trying to make sure that I’m happy and functioning, the best I can at that particular time. And looking after my children, and my husband when I can manage it.

    Lessons from the stroke

    Bill 52:07

    What has stroke taught you?

    Rachel McLaughlin 52:09

    I think it’s taught me to be a lot more understanding. And to, I think, look at look at things from lots of different angles. You know, I’ve always been good at problem-solving, but I think I’m probably better now. It sort of it, dealing with whatever comes. And sort of, maybe not panicking so much.

    Bill 52:52

    Is one big problem-solving journey, isn’t it? restrike recovery?

    Rachel McLaughlin 52:57

    Yeah. And yeah, so I think it’s just really sort of looking at things quite differently to what I used to know what’s important.

    Bill 53:09

    There are probably a lot of people listening who have just found the podcast or just early on in their recovery journey. You’re a little more experienced than then perhaps. So what would you like to tell other people who are listening?

    Rachel McLaughlin 53:26

    Just take it easy. Don’t put too much pressure on yourself, and do what you can do. And don’t worry about what you don’t get done that day. Because it will likely still be there the next day. And just be kind to yourself. Yeah. Yeah. And ask lots of questions. Ask lots of questions.

    Bill 53:56

    Yeah. Be kind to yourself a good one. I like that one. Because often we can be hard on ourselves especially. Well, I’m going to just use the term high achievers or people who have always go, go, never say no, and all that kind of stuff, and then feel bad that they can’t do what they used to do.

    Bill 54:18

    And then if you’re hard on yourself because you can’t do this, it’s counterproductive, because really what you want to be is you want to be kind to yourself so that you’re being productive when you’ve let things go. So it’s not unproductive to not do something when you’re recovering from a stroke. It’s very productive because what you’re doing is allowing for energy not to be wasted. You’re allowing for recovery to occur.

    Bill 54:49

    You’re allowing for things to settle down and for your cognitive function to continue to improve so resting And then sitting on your butt and doing nothing for 45 minutes or an hour is productive because it’s recharging your battery. Yeah, yeah. Where you were perhaps, you know, heading towards an empty battery.

    Bill 55:13

    So being kind to yourself so that you can do things that you previously would have avoided doing? Or, or thought that it was not for you to do is definitely. You have to flip it over. And you have to see it that way. Well, I appreciate you joining me on the podcast, I wish you well, with all of your upcoming procedures and everything that you’ve got to get through, I know you’ll overcome it.

    Bill 55:51

    And you’ll look back 12 months from now and you won’t believe how far you’ve come. And I appreciate you reaching out, even though you’re going through tough times, and it’s difficult, reaching out and sharing your story in the hope that it’s going to help other people.

    Bill 56:09

    It’s still amazing to me, every time I interview somebody who’s going through a tough time, and who feels that the best thing they could do is jump on the podcast and share their story in the hope that will help somebody else.

    Rachel McLaughlin 56:23

    Yeah, well, thank you for the podcast. Because until I found them, I was struggling. And it was just so good to hear, you know, similar experiences. Very different, but just yeah, those similar experiences.

    Bill 56:43

    Thanks for being my guest.

    Rachel McLaughlin 56:45

    You’re welcome. Thank you.

    Bill 56:47

    Thanks for joining us on today’s episode. If you are a stroke survivor with a story to share about your stroke experience. Come and join me on the show. The interviews are not scripted, you do not have to plan for them. All you need to do to qualify as a bear stroke survivor who wants to share your story in the hope that it will help somebody else who’s going through something similar.

    Bill 57:07

    If you are a researcher who wants to share the findings of a recent study or you’re looking to recruit people into studies, you might also wish to reach out and be a guest on my show. If you have a commercial product that you would like to promote that is related to supporting stroke survivors. To recover.

    Bill 57:24

    There is also a path for you to join me on a sponsored episode of the show. Just go to recoveryafterstroke.com/contact and fill out the form explaining briefly which category you belong to. And I will respond with more details about how we can connect via Zoom.

    Bill 57:40

    Remember, grab a copy of chapter one of the book The Unexpected Way that a Strike Has Become the Best Thing That Happened. Just visit recoveryafterstroke.com/book 150 other people have already done that. Take a look around and discover what the book is all about. Click the Download free chapter button and you will receive it in your email.

    Bill 58:02

    As always, to learn more about my guests, including the links to the social media and other pages, and to download a full transcript of the entire interview, please go to recoveryafterstroke.com/episodes Thanks again for being here and listening. I appreciate you see you on the next episode.

    Intro 58:20

    Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals’ opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast or the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed.

    Intro 58:37

    All content on this website and any linked blog, podcast, or video material controlled by this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis, the content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice.

    Intro 59:00

    The information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances, or health objectives. Do not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose treat, cure, or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional.

    Intro 59:15

    Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional, your doctor, or your rehabilitation program based on our content if you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition, please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional if you are experiencing a health emergency or think you might be, call 000 if in Australia or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance or go to the nearest hospital emergency department medical information changes constantly.

    Intro 59:15

    While we aim to provide current quality information and our content we did not provide any guarantees and assume no legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, currency, or completeness of the content. If you choose to rely on any information within our content, you do so solely at your own risk. We are careful with the links we provide however Third-Party links from our website are followed at your own risk and we are not responsible for any information you find there

    The post Mini-Stroke Recovery | Rachel McLaughlin appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

    1 hr
  • Surgeon Who Survived Ischemic Stroke – Dr Siva Murugappan

    Dr Siva Murugappan experienced an ischemic stroke while working in a hospital as a surgeon in 2017. He co-authored a book about his experience titled FRONTIERS The Journey Of Two Surgeons Through Stroke

    Social Media:

    Facebook

    Your Web Site:

    http://www.frontierstroke.com

    Highlights:

    02:02 Introduction

    09:07 When a doctor becomes a patient
    20:07 Frontiers: The Journey Of Two Surgeons Through Stroke
    34:58 Work culture and burnout in the medical field
    44:57 Life after a stroke and its impact on mental and physical abilities
    50:46 Getting back to work after a stroke

    Transcript:

    Bill 0:00

    Have you been able to get back to work?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 0:02

    It took me almost two years, then I was able to do minor surgeries by 2019. And then since I was doing minor surgeries, that was like a rehabilitation for me, which made me because you go to the hospital, you stand you do some minor procedures.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 0:24

    So all that develops endurance in yourself. And then I posted some more when for supervision for endoscopy, and I’ve got permission for endoscopy now. So I do both minor surgery and endoscopy. That keeps my week quite busy. So that’s how I’m going, but I still can’t run.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 0:44

    My next phase is I’m trying to go back to full surgery, at least just to get the license and then I decide what I want to do.

    Intro 0:56

    This is the recovery after stroke podcast, with Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after a stroke.

    Bill 1:09

    Hello and welcome to the Recovery after Stroke podcast. If you are a stroke survivor with a story to share about your stroke experience now’s the perfect time to join me on the show. The interviews are not scripted, you did not have to plan for them.

    Bill 1:22

    All you need to do to qualify is be a stroke survivor who wants to share your story in the hope that it will help somebody else who’s going through something similar. If you are a researcher who wants to share the findings of a recent study, or you are looking to recruit people into studies, you may also wish to reach out and be a guest on my show.

    Bill 1:40

    If you have a commercial product that you would like to promote that is related to supporting stroke survivors to recover there is also a path for you to join me on a sponsored episode of the show. Just go to recoveryafterstroke.com/contact Fill out the form explaining briefly which category you belong to. And I will respond with more details about how we can connect via Zoom.

    Introduction – Siva Murugappan


    Bill 2:02
    This is episode 278 my guest today is Dr. Siva Murugappan, who was working as a general surgeon in the hospital when nurses were on duty. Notice that he was showing the signs of an ischemic stroke. Dr. Siva co-authored a book about his experience with his wife Prima, which is titled Frontiers, the journey of two surgeons through stroke. Dr. Siva Murugappan welcome to the podcast.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 2:28

    Thank you.

    Bill 2:29

    Tell me a little bit about your story.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 2:31

    I was a General Surgeon here in Ontario. I’ve been working in Canada since 2006. And in 2017, I was treating a patient on the ward. When I developed a stroke. It was around 4 pm. In the evening, the nurse identified that I was having a stroke.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 3:02

    And they took me to the ER straight away. I had my anticoagulant given to me very fast within 20 minutes. And then I was in ICU. And then I was transferred to rehab where the whole program of rehabilitation started.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 3:25

    The first few days in ICU everything was like a blur because you just had the stroke and there’s I think brain cell swelling and things like that. But then the rehabilitation, I was there in the hospital for three months.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 3:46

    Slow and steady progress. But the best one was when I was able to walk with the help of a walker and the physiotherapist took the cake. Because once you have had this and you’re paralyzed, you can’t move and they’re thinking what’s going you know, you don’t realize it until it hits you. And yeah, that was the highlight of my whole rehab. Stay there.

    Bill 4:21

    Yeah. So how old were you?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 4:26

    I was when I had my stroke I was 57

    Bill 4:29

    What does a general surgeon do? Every day. So I understand. You do surgeries but what is the general surgeon’s practice what kind of surgeries

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 4:43

    so usually anything inside the abdomen is general surgery. Our day typically starts say about seven o’clock in the morning. You go and round the wards. You see your patients make the decisions for the day, and then you go off to either the OR, that is surgery, or you go to endoscopy or you go to minor surgery, or you go to the office to see new patients said that will be the typical flow in a week.

    Bill 5:22

    Your process to become a general surgeon? When did you start your studies? And how old were you when you finished?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 5:33

    I became a general surgeon in 1993. I was in Malaysia when that happened, and I was 33 years old.

    Bill 5:49

    And when did you start your studies? How old were you when you started your studies?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 6:04

    1990 was when I started being in the surgical program. Do you mean my undergraduate or

    Bill 6:13

    The very beginning your decision to go to university and become a medicine in 1980. The reason I ask is because I’m just trying to get an understanding of the period that it takes for somebody to become a medicine student, and then eventually get to the stage of being a surgeon.

    Bill 6:14

    So it’s your entire life almost because up until your first few years of life you’re in, in Preparatory School, and then, you know, small school for children under the age of 12. And then you go to high school or something along those lines. And then you’re spending the majority of your adult life in training to be a surgeon.

    Bill 7:02

    Well, you might not know at the time that you’re going to be a surgeon. But by the time you get there, you practice most of your adult life to be a surgeon, and then you have a stroke. And that takes and then you lose everything right? So that’s the thing. And you’re a medical person.

    Bill 7:21

    So as a medical person, I’m wondering whether or not it took you by surprise that the fact that you now are not the person providing the help, you’re the person that’s meant to receive the help. How did you come to terms with all of that stuff happening? All in the moment?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 7:40

    Oh, boy, I you know, the thing that came to my mind always, and this can’t be happening to me, you know, but once you try to get out of the bed, you can’t. Okay, this has happened, then you come to terms with it. But it took me a while, but not that long. I think about a week. Come to terms Okay, now I got to see what I got to do. Rather than keep on thinking about why this has happened.

    Bill 8:17

    And you were in the hospital when it happened as well. You were in the hospital, that was

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 8:21

    the luckiest thing for me.

    Bill 8:25

    Did you have any idea that something was wrong? Did you get some sort of a sign? Did you in hindsight, notice that you were potentially in danger?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 8:38

    No, nothing at all. Just like that.

    Bill 8:44

    Yeah. And then is there an underlying cause of this particular ischemic stroke? Do? Do you will be able to determine what caused it?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 8:57

    No, we didn’t. We were not able to find out the exact cause of it.

    When Dr. Siva Murugappan a patient

    Bill 9:07

    How does that feel? Being a doctor and not being able to find the cause of a condition that you have? Is that challenging?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 9:17

    Well, it was left with the other doctors. So I was on the receiving end. So you know, it’s their problem. Yeah.

    Bill 9:25

    All right. Fair enough. So, you’re in the hospital, you’ve gone through the whole process, they discovered that you’ve had a stroke and they’ve been able to remove the stroke with TPA. Was it TPA that was given?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 9:48

    It was TPA? That thing just dissolves the blood clot.

    Bill 9:57

    And did you notice a difference Did you feel a difference? After that blood clot is gone? What is that feeling? Like? How does? Do you come back online? What? What’s that? Like?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 10:09

    It’s like, I can explain to you exactly what I felt the TPA was going in while the thing was going into the body, I was able to move by left side. And I was like, I was showing the nurse, look, yeah, everything is moving very well. And then say two hours later, nothing moved. That’s when the swelling of the brain cells takes place and that makes it even worse, I think.

    Bill 10:45

    And then the swelling eventually doesn’t subside, what happens to the swelling? After that.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 10:53

    Run the premises, and it will subside it might take about one to two weeks, but lasting effects like constant inflammation, in that area, can be kept on going which can extend the paralysis So to your question about how was I behaving as a doctor, being a patient? I kept on reminding myself you are a patient now Siva, you don’t question anybody you just take it even if it is utter ridiculousness you just accept it.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 11:35

    I kept on reminding myself about that. Because you know why the slightest thing The nurse will think, Okay, the doctor is trying to you know, show his strength or something like that, so you’ve got to be more extra careful, so that you don’t cross boundaries while receiving treatment. But I think they’re extremely nice to me, but it is just me, you know.

    Bill 12:03

    You’re not a doctor at that moment. You’re a patient, and you are receiving the care so you have to allow people to make their judgments and do their work. Yeah. That must be surreal. There must be a surreal situation to find yourself in.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 12:23

    Oh, yeah. Used to just give orders and walk off. And then now you are here okay? Even if you can see that they can’t do it properly. You just have to close one eye.

    Bill 12:41

    Yeah. So it’s been a few years now. It’s been a few years have been able to get back to work what was the situation like for you to transition back to what is called a regular life

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 13:01

    it took me almost two years. Then I was able to do minor surgeries in 2019.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 13:20

    And then since I was doing minor surgeries, that was like a rehabilitation for me. This made me because you go to the hospital, you stand you do some minor procedures. So all that develops and runs in yourself.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 13:39

    And then I push it some more when for supervision for endoscopy. And I’ve got permission for endoscopy now. So I do both minor surgery and endoscopy. That keeps my be quite busy. So that’s how I’m doing. But I still can’t run. My next phase is I’m trying to go back to full surgery, at least just to get the license and then I decide what I want to do.

    Intro 14:12

    If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. How long will it take to recover? Will I recover? What things should I avoid? In case I make matters worse, doctors will explain things that obviously, you’ve never had a stroke before. You probably don’t know what questions to ask.

    Intro 14:37

    If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation. Stop worrying and head to recoveryafterstroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you, it’s called Seven Questions To Ask Your Doctor About Your Stroke.

    Intro 14:56

    These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was there. recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition, but they’ll also help you take a more active role in your recovery, head to the website now, recoveryafterstroke.com, and download the guide, it’s free.

    Bill 15:18

    So you have to prove yourself again, is there some kind of a cognitive test as well as a physical test that you have to do to prove yourself being capable? To deliver procedures?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 15:30

    I don’t, I don’t think they want any cognitive test. They just want to see, okay, you are in the situation we are here just got disturbed there. We just have to prove that if I’m the man leading surgeon there, will I be able to do it?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 15:56

    And I have to do it on a live patient. And there will be an assessor, another surgeon who will assess Okay, is he able to do things? Okay, and they might throw in some things, see how I manage a complication?

    Bill 16:12

    You know, when you’re in surgery, and you’re the main surgeon, how many other surgeons are supporting you?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 16:24

    Usually one assistant, just one, one assistant wonders.

    Bill 16:33

    And the assistant is as capable, for example, as you are so that if you need to step away or move along.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 16:43

    Still not as capable as the surgeon.

    Bill 16:47

    Okay, what’s the assistant’s role then?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 16:50

    The system’s role is to surgery is all about exposure of the particular body part. So usually means retraction of the abdomen so that we can have a proper view and do the things we need to do. Then cutting futures retraction and cutting futures are the main things of assistance.

    Bill 17:17

    Okay. So they’re assisting you with the procedures that you’re performing so that they’re performed more quickly.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 17:30

    Yes, it can translate into time saved. If not, just imagine I put a suture in and then have to cut the suture. So every time it’s like excessive extra movements, which is not necessarily the assistant is there.

    Bill 17:49

    It’s not as efficient.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 17:51

    Yeah, efficiency improves. And I think also, for us, surgeons, no matter what happens in your mind space, you still got to keep your calm and cool. So if you’re doing everything yourself, you get agitated fast.

    Bill 18:12

    Okay. So it’s about having some tasks delegated to somebody else so that you can focus on the task at hand.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 18:20

    Yeah, like the task, the nurse will be to get all the instruments in the correct order so that we can just pick them up.

    Bill 18:30

    Okay. So when you’re being assessed? Is that an ego problem? There? Is somebody watching you while you’re doing surgery? You know, do you have challenges with the fact that somebody is assessing you or because you went through this process of being comfortable as being the patient? And then now wanting to get your wings back, so to speak? Is it good to have somebody assessing you and making sure that you’re okay, what’s the thought process around that?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 19:04

    My thought process Bill, is anybody under the microscope, you won’t do well don’t you think?

    Bill 19:12

    That’s kind of my thought, but I wouldn’t know what happens when you’re, you’re a surgeon. Yeah.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 19:19

    But when you’re a surgeon, they put you through that, there’s no two ways about it.

    Bill 19:28

    I understand why they would do that. I’m perfectly happy that they did that to you. But as you said, somebody watching you while you’re working to assess you on a live patient can be a little nerve-wracking, but I imagine surgeons are generally cool, calm, and collected because you have to do work that’s life-saving, life-threatening, whatever. So you can manage that type of scrutiny.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 19:58

    I can feel I’ll also soon yeah, yeah.

    Frontiers: The Journey Of Two Surgeons Through Stroke


    Bill 20:08
    So you’ve decided to write a book about the journey? Can you give me a little bit of an insight as to where that idea came from? Why was it necessary to write a book? Let’s talk about the book for a moment. Let me talk about the book for a moment by just stating the title of the book Frontiers, the Journey of Two Surgeons through Stroke. So there’s somebody else involved in this story, not just you. Yeah.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 20:38

    It’s me and my wife, who was the primary caregiver. So it’s my perspective and her perspective also. Because she’s also another surgeon. So she has to continue doing surgery as well as take care of me. So her perspective is, actually hers was a bigger burden than mine. And the reason to wrote the book was my wife’s.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 21:16

    She kept telling me why you need to tell your story to the world, you need to tell your story. That’s how this came about. And she went to, the rehab place. She was trying to find some books on stroke, written by patients. We don’t want to read all these medical books, because we have read them anyway.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 21:43

    And she couldn’t find any. And then our situation was unique in the sense. The surgeon getting a stroke and trying to come back

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 22:00

    It would have been an easier, easier pathway in the stroke and made me permanently paralyzed. Decision May. Really, yeah, if I’m permanently paralyzed, and the decision is made for you. Okay. Yeah, you’re not going to struggle through a paralyzed limb. But once you start recovering, and you know, you can recover, then you have to.

    Bill 22:31

    When a decision is made for people who have had paralysis based on their leg, or their arm, or their left side, or the right side, it’s still a struggle not to overcome other things.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 22:44

    No, it is a struggle for daily life. Daily. What do you call the daily activities? Yeah. That itself is a struggle. Why would you want to go back to surgery? Right. Now. So that’s how I looked at it. But this one I recovered. So I said, I’m going back. So the struggle of Gutenberg is also there.

    Bill 23:12

    Is part of the story. The cover has a picture of Sisyphus. Yep. And Sisyphus, for people who don’t know is it’s an ancient ancient Greek mythological story of a man holding a boulder and trying to push it up a hill. And the story goes there every evening when he finally gets the boulder to the top of the hill.

    Bill 23:40

    When he wakes up in the morning, the Boulder is at the bottom of the hill, and he has to do it again. And he’s been punished by Zeus. Zeus has given him this task because since the first was, I think he was a little bit cheeky and did the wrong things, something like that. And that’s his lifelong punishment. Give me an insight into why the cover has a picture of Sisyphus on it.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 24:06

    Bill, it’s a daily struggle, man. It’s a daily struggle. So you got to be like, conscious of everything that you are unconscious of before. You have to be

    Bill 24:29

    what are some of those things that you have to be conscious of that you previously could take for granted?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 24:39

    Like a simple thing, like getting into your car. In glory, I opened the door with my left hand and then I held the steering wheel. And then I feel that okay, I’ve got a good grip, and then get into the car. I don’t think anybody just thinks about all those things. Yeah,

    Bill 25:06

    I know exactly. I know exactly what you mean. So when I wake up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom I have to physically ensure that my feet are on the ground of my bed. If I don’t what happens is I lose my I can lose my balance in the middle of the night because my bed because sorry my left leg is still sleepier than my right leg.

    Bill 25:36

    It takes a little bit of time to warm up and to wake up and if I’m not paying attention when I’m half asleep and I don’t notice that my leg is not on board I can fall over in the middle of the night oh so that happens every single day. Whether I wake up in the middle of the night or whether I wake up in the morning I have to ensure that my left leg is up for the task.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 26:14

    I can imagine that too, consciously making sure my legs were on the ground now so I didn’t know.

    Bill 26:23

    So with your daily struggle, this daily struggle is it does it add a level of difficulty on some days that makes some of your days harder? Or is it just part of life now now that six years have elapsed

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 26:49

    I’m beginning to be working and moving at a spinal level now. I don’t think as much as I used to do two years ago that’s much that much I can say I think time slowly heals and that is a great hope we can offer

    Bill 27:14

    Do you also feel like you’re adjusting personally you’re you’re finding ways to adjust and do things differently and now that started to become subconscious

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 27:30

    that’s exactly what I mean yeah subconscious

    Bill 27:39

    what were the hard parts for your wife to have to deal with? What did she have to deal with as well as going to work and then coming home to be your caregiver?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 27:54

    I’m always lamenting to her so she’s got to be a counselor at home and a surgeon in the hospital

    Bill 28:06

    That’s a profound statement

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 28:12

    That’s been a lot on her plate.

    Bill 28:20

    Is it the other things that you need to talk about regularly with your wife? Are they stroke things what are they are they identity issues? What kinds of things challenge you that you need to talk about regularly?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 28:46

    Well, things like basically organizing the day. From this time to this time, we are going to do this, and then after that there, the next goal. I do the grocery shopping nowadays. I just want to be out. So that’s a constant rehab. And I hope that in the coming years all that will become like a subconscious level

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 29:22

    I was never a good organizer. I never like you know, plan first thing in the morning for the day. And now I do it.

    Bill 29:32

    And is that because you have to get through your day to make it through the day? Or is it something else that’s happening there?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 29:40

    It’s not I think, initially when it started, it had to be like that. And so I’m just carrying it down.

    Bill 29:51

    Is it helpful?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 29:54

    Not really, to tell you a fact not really

    Bill 30:00

    Is that because you’re putting a lot of time and energy into planning? how your day is going to unfold rather than just letting it unfold?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 30:12

    I think so. I think my personality was such that I never used to put too much emphasis and planning and energy on to plan for the day. I just let it unfold. And I tackle it as I go.

    Bill 30:34

    How many hours of surgery do how many hours? Are you working these days? And has that changed from the hours that you did before the stroke? Oh, yeah.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 30:44

    Now I work about 40 hours a week. I used to work about 8090 hours a week. And that includes the days you’re on call. And all that. Now, 40 hours in the work week is like, you go you do one particular work part of the place and you come back home. Those days, it used to be all over the place

    Bill 31:24

    in multiple locations, and then you do your rounds, and then you check up on your patients. Are you still doing all of that? Or any? Are there fewer surgeries involved in your day? Why did the hours decrease from 80 to 40?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 31:38

    Because my type of surgeries are minor surgeries, which can be done under local freezing, uh huh. In the area and do the surgery. So after the surgery, the patient walks back home. So I don’t have to look after him after that. Then he comes back, he or she comes back on. It’s all outpatient. So that has reduced my inpatient care.

    Bill 32:07

    Okay, so the day procedures people come in, they have a procedure, they go home, and then they might see you in clinic a few weeks later for

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 32:16

    a checkup. Exactly.

    Bill 32:20

    And you have clinic days, and then you have surgery days.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 32:25

    Exactly.

    Bill 32:27

    Okay. Is that better than you’re doing 40 hours a week? Personally, it doesn’t feel okay. , I have a sense that surgeons and doctors thrive on what may be tiring and difficult to do 60 or 80 hours a week, but they thrive on their job and on helping people and on being there for them and then seeing their patients feel like it’s part of the territory. And when it’s taken away, and it’s decreased to half, does that mean that that’s not a good thing, or is it in your case good that you have less work to do?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 33:13

    I think in my case is a good thing for going forward. It is all about how much stress you’re putting on your body and mind. And now after the stroke, I realized that it takes a stroke for me to realize that those days, we don’t realize it because we are so engrossed in it.

    Bill 33:38

    Right. One of the weird things is, is that I was involved many years ago in a little television, promotional news story that was done for the Stroke Foundation, where they were talking about how the amount of hours that people work puts them at greater risk of stroke. And, of course, anything above 40 hours a week.

    Bill 34:05

    The statistics towards the risk of stroke increase almost exponentially and then by the time you get to 80 hours a week it’s a pretty terrible statistic. Many people are going to be unwell, they may not have a stroke, or they may have another medical condition doctor’s job is to keep people out of the hospital.

    Bill 34:26

    You guys seem to be doing the kind of work and the amount of hours that increases the risk of medical emergencies for yourselves. Have you ever contemplated that before? Have you ever taken notice of the fact that you guys do almost the exact opposite of what is recommended for the net for the general population?

    Work culture and burnout in the medical field

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 34:58

    It’s really funny you asked me that question that has never occurred to me. I think training is such that you’re just following in the truck. And you don’t stand back and step back and think, Okay, what is going to happen to my body, my mind if I keep on working like this? But your training was such that you keep on training like this for many hours, you get good at it, and then you don’t feel it.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 35:30

    So that’s a positive way of looking at working for long hours. And your body is used to it, and you’re questioning yourself, even if somebody asked you don’t you feel tired? Not, you know, end of the day, I can still go for another surgery. So it used to be like that. And then you also didn’t want to be seen, like, you know, you can’t endure this journey. That’s the other part of it. To your superiors and your peers, you cannot be seen that you cannot endure this is not a struggle, this life.

    Bill 36:18

    His way of life? You know, if we put factory workers or production line workers on an 80-hour week, okay. Okay, the streets would be filled with labor unions. Complaining about working conditions.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 36:39

    Definitely. But they’re the work the workers, if you put them through a training period of five years of 80 hours and more a week, later on, they won’t be complaining, there won’t be much of a, you know, this union thing and all that. I think it all has to do with that formation period, the training period.

    Bill 37:07

    And how intense it is?

    Bill 37:15

    It just staggers me, does it? Do you see many of your colleagues come and go as a result of the large amount of time and effort that needs to be put into a job? Like being a doctor or a surgeon? Is it a high rate of loss of people from the industry or from the occupation?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 37:41

    No, I don’t see that. You know, so if we happen to see that, and if it was significant? By the time we all decide to become surgeons, that would be a big thing coming up. The question, why would you want to do this, you know, hear all the while people are just encouraging you all the way. Everybody.

    Bill 38:12

    So it’s a culture.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 38:14

    It’s a culture. Yeah. So maybe I should start discouraging.

    Bill 38:20

    I don’t know what you should do. And don’t don’t take any advice from me. But I’m just worried about all those amazing doctors and nurses who struggle, being at work away from their families for 60 hours a week, or 70 hours a week, or 80 hours a week. I thoroughly appreciate it. Thank you, me wrong. I’ve benefited from that system.

    Bill 38:43

    But when I’m doing this type of work, the work that I’m doing now, and I’m interviewing people and understanding how stroke occurs, many of the people who I’ve interviewed will tell me they’re overworked. And there’s not enough downtime, and there’s not enough time for themselves and there’s not enough time for them to there was not enough time for them to go to the doctor or see a doctor or get blood tests or whatever, or take the headache seriously.

    Bill 39:09

    And it’s just to me, it seems like there’s a whole industry of people inside these four walls, they may as well be a factory inside a hospital. And they are working to double the amount of time that the majority of the people in the population are working. And somehow it’s just part of the job. It’s everything that you’re meant to do and don’t worry about it.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 39:36

    Yeah.

    Bill 39:39

    Did you have time for yourself during this 80 Hour Workweek Ken Do you have time to decompress or to run or to be fit?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 39:50

    I had a bill I golf. I make all the weekends when I’m not on call. I golf with Okay, so that takes away my mind completely from the hospital. I don’t think about the hospital operations at that. That time. Yeah. Okay.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 40:09

    So well with your friends, your golfing that that’s a good de-stressor and downtime for you. And then, of course with family, you go back home and then you go for dinners, or you cook with your family. That’s another downtime.

    Bill 40:25

    Yep. Are you any good at golf?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 40:29

    That’s a good question.

    Bill 40:33

    Tiger Woods. Okay. Okay, so it’s not about being good at golf. It’s just about being at golf.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 40:42

    Yeah, that’s right.

    Bill 40:47

    Yeah, I’ve never played golf. I don’t think I ever will. Not when I was capable, physically capable. And I want now it’s a very good way to run a good walk of golf, isn’t it?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 41:03

    You know, you say that, but it is funny when you start playing with your friends. And the ball. The fairway is so huge in front of you know, somehow you managed to hit that ball into the water by the side. Laughter to the greens? Yeah.

    Bill 41:26

    Yeah. It’s almost impossible to miss the fairway. But you ended up in the water. Yeah.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 41:33

    And you still managed to miss the ferry?

    Bill 41:39

    Understand? How many holes do you prefer to play? 918 18. Okay.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 41:48

    Yeah.

    Bill 41:48

    Were you able to get back to Golf quite well, after all of the stuff that you went through? Did it? Also was that also a difficult transition?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 41:58

    It was a difficult transition. Nowadays, I’m able to walk nine holes play golf, and come back. Yeah, I considered that an achievement. So I’m slowly getting there.

    Bill 42:19

    Yeah, that’s good. I didn’t have to be a little bit too draining, on your energy levels.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 42:26

    It is even nine holes is are draining. I try to walk rather than take Cubby.

    Bill 42:39

    So you feel like this is all part of your rehabilitation? I love your daily tasks. Everything. Yeah, every single thing. Yeah, I do love that I ride my bike for the same reason. And I have an electric bike. Because pedaling with my left leg causes far more fatigue than my right leg. So if I, if I went for, say a 20-minute ride, my, my right side is good to go for another 20 3040 minutes or an hour. My left side has already said enough, you know, get me home.

    Bill 43:16

    But with the electric bike, because it assists the pedaling, I can be out for two or three hours. And it doesn’t feel like I come back exhausted even though I have to rest. It’s a much it allows for a much longer stay outside. And that’s the purpose of being on the bike to be outside and feeling the wind and all that kind of stuff. So I love the fact that I’ve been able to get back to riding and it’s not painful and difficult.

    Bill 43:49

    As a result, I get to still enjoy it. And I consider it part of my rehab. And one of the other things I do for my rehab is where there’s an escalator. Yeah. And stairs, you know how sometimes you’ll go to a venue and there’ll be stairs, going up two or three flights, but then also be escalators. I always take the stairs if I can. So I kind of see it as like, while I can take the stairs, I am going to take the stairs.

    Bill 44:20

    And it’s a difficult climb three flights to the particular spot I want to go and my leg is tired by the time I’m going up to the third flight. But it’s kind of like a little. It’s a little exercise. It’s a little rehabilitation. For example, a shopping center is a perfect place when you have multilevel shopping malls. And then and I use that as a little bit of a rehabilitation thing. I’ve been doing that from the beginning when I was able to walk again.

    Life after a stroke and its impact on mental and physical abilities

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 44:57

    That’s great. Yeah. Thank you Do the same thing in the hospital take the stairs. Yeah. But you know, the pace is quite slow.

    Bill 45:12

    Yeah, you’re not getting in anybody’s way. Yeah. And the same thing with the shopping malls nobody’s using the stairs anyway, they’re all using the escalator so it’s pretty good. So tell me about the book. When is it out? Is it ready to launch?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 45:32

    I think it’s launched

    Bill 45:34

    because I do see it on Amazon here.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 45:38

    It’s published on Amazon. We have a website called frontiers frontier stroke.com There’s a website that is available in all bookstores other than Amazon it’s on Barnes and Noble.

    Bill 46:04

    Okay, you’ve got a copy of the book there. I do. Hold that up so people can have a look. I’ll include all the links and everything and how many pages is it?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 46:17

    100 pages. It’s a short read.

    Bill 46:27

    Give me a bit of an idea of the theme.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 46:33

    Most of it I think we have spoken about Yeah, and then all my feelings at that particular time I put it in detail. So a person who’s going through the same story can feel it I think it’s just like you need company Okay, the other guy also felt the same thing. So it makes you feel a bit better.

    Bill 47:03

    Yeah. Less alone.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 47:05

    Yeah.

    Bill 47:07

    How have your colleagues responded to your journey

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 47:19

    My peers went about their lives as usual. Of course, I didn’t expect anything else. They were busy trying to get another surgeon so that they didn’t have to do many calls. I mean, that’s all expected at Murano’s physical level I mean, they felt sorry for me.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 48:03

    Probably they were thinking shouldn’t work too hard. But it was shocking because I worked in a small community. So all the doctors were quite shocked I haven’t done a talk to many of them to see how much they have reduced their working hours after this has happened to me.

    Bill 48:36

    Probably none.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 48:38

    Yeah. Yeah, it is already ingrained in every cell of the body. It’s just going to be there.

    Bill 48:46

    It’s part of the identity. Tell me about what the hottest part of stroke was for you.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 48:58

    It was mental. Ah, yeah, it is like you’re sitting down there and thinking and thinking and thinking and you’re trying to tell yourself not to think just be that never happens. With the brain and all the brain waves going on?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 49:20

    Of course, you’re going to be thinking and he’s always thinking okay, will I be able to do this will I be I mean, my career as such one I was thinking about it. But then you know, you want to move you want to be independent. So all the more all your thought processes going into that. I didn’t mind my physicality to be a real problem.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 49:53

    But the mental ability to understand Okay, y’all Life has changed. You have to adapt. That was a big hurdle. You’d asked me that. When I was in that rehab, the therapist, one of the therapists, came, I wanted to talk to you about today, the topic is life after stroke.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 50:25

    So I just looked at her and I said, What do you mean life after stroke? I’m going back to work. Uh-huh. So I then realized they were thinking in their mind, I won’t be going back. So they wanted to teach me something else to do with my life, you know?

    Getting back to work after a stroke

    Bill 50:46

    Yeah. How much harder? Would it have been if you didn’t get back to work?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 50:53

    Or it would have been very hard. Well, my personality, I would have been crying every day inside.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 51:07

    It’s not like I’m totally or even more than 50% disabled, I can still move and do a lot of things. That sort of pushes me further. No, I can go all the way, you know?

    Bill 51:23

    Yeah. Take what you’ve got. And who will use it to you to the best of your ability to the max to the greatest extent if you can? Yeah. Yeah, I understand that. So what what’s something that strike has taught you that was unexpected that you didn’t realize?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 51:45

    The biggest thing I think I learned from it is patience. Patients, especially those with stroke, don’t think that by doing a lot of exercises and doing them more often, they’re going to get better quickly. Stroke takes its own time. And the time we are not talking in terms of days, weeks, or months, it’s yours. The only takes years, nobody tells.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 52:17

    But then this happens. And you have to be very patient. And also, I would say, stop planning. Take every day at a time. No, people come and say one step at a time. I never used to bother about that statement.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 52:37

    I do realize now you have to be controlled in that one step at a time. You can’t expect to achieve a lot of things by putting in more work. It doesn’t happen that way. Your legs become more spastic, rather than do anything good for you.

    Bill 52:58

    Yeah, I learned that lesson as well, that time that everything takes time I’ve been going through this for nine for since 2012. For 11 years. My brain surgery was in 2014. So it’s been nine years since my brain surgery. And it’s the longest time I’ve had to focus on a task in my life. And that task is rehabilitation, that task is being better, feeling better, being more active.

    Bill 53:32

    And let me tell you, there are ups and there are downs, and there are things that get in the wipe all the time. And what might be minor for another person who hasn’t had a stroke is a major setback for me. It takes ages, you know.

    Bill 53:48

    So time it’s just that everything does take time. It’s such a it’s such a simple thing to say. But it’s a different thing to deeply understand what that means and to be okay with the fact that it’s been nine years and my recovery is still ongoing.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 54:10

    Always recover I think.

    Bill 54:14

    Do you think it’s made you a better surgeon and better doctor?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 54:18

    I think so. In terms of I give my patients a better year now. I listen to everything they say. Those days, they come and tell me a few things. I’ve already made my decision. Okay, this is probably what it is. Now, I don’t focus on what I would like to diagnose.

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 54:45

    I just listen to them. It’s like storytime, you know, we just sit down there. You listen to them. Maybe you want to add or subtract something from them. And it’s going well I think I have one understood the essence of one step at a time. Try not to get too many things within a short period of period.

    Bill 55:12

    Yeah. This means that you’re more likely to achieve something because if you don’t have a deadline or a timeline for a task or an outcome, you won’t be disappointed that you didn’t make it there in 12 months or 13 months. You’re always thinking about getting to the destination, but it’s not about the destination.

    Bill 55:36

    It’s about the journey. It’s about continuing the journey, wherever the destination is, and however long it takes to get there. What would you like to tell other people who have just had a stroke? Maybe they’re listening to this podcast, it’s the first one they came across. And, you know, they’re hoping for some guidance and support what would you like to tell a recently diagnosed stroke survivor?

    Dr. Siva Murugappan 56:00

    There is light at the end of the tunnel. You just have to be a bit patient and keep moving.

    Bill 56:09

    Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast and reaching out to be on. I appreciate you sharing your story. And I look forward to hearing about how your book does. Thanks for joining us on today’s episode, remember to grab a copy of chapter one of the book, the unexpected way that a stroke became the best thing that happened just visit recoveryafterstroke.com/book.

    Bill 56:38

    Take a look around and discover what the book is all about. Click the Download Free Chapter button. As always learn more about my guests including links to their social media and other pages. To download a full transcript of the entire interview please go to recoveryafterstroke.com/episodes Thank you to all those people who have already left a review it really does mean the world to me and it makes a massive difference in helping others who need this type of content.

    Bill 57:07

    And it helps them to find it easier and make the stroke recovery just a little bit better. If you haven’t left a review and would like to the best way to do it is to leave a five-star review and a few words about what the show means to you on iTunes and Spotify. If you’re watching on YouTube, comment below the video I love answering people’s questions or interacting with them after they watch the video.

    Bill 57:32

    Like the episode and to get notifications of future episodes, subscribe to the show on the platform of your choice. Thanks again for being here and listening I truly appreciate you see you on the next episode.

    Intro 58:00

    Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals. The opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast are the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed.

    Intro 58:17

    All content on this website and any linked blog, podcast, or video material controlled by this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis.

    Intro 58:30

    The content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice. The information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances, or health objectives.

    Intro 58:45

    Do not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose treat, cure, or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional. Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional, your doctor, or your rehabilitation program based on our content.

    Intro 59:02

    If you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition, please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional. If you are experiencing a health emergency or think you might be, call 000 if in Australia or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance or go to the nearest hospital emergency department.

    Intro 59:19

    Medical information changes constantly. While we aim to provide current quality information in our content. We did not provide any guarantees and assume no legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, currency, or completeness of the content. If you choose to rely on any information within our content you do so solely at your own risk. We are careful with the links we provide however third-party links from our website are followed at your own risk and we are not responsible for any information you find there.

    The post Surgeon Who Survived Ischemic Stroke – Dr Siva Murugappan appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

    1 hr
  • Strokepointer – In Ambulance Stroke Triage | Wouter Potters

    Wouter Potters is the CEO and co-founder of Trianect which is developing the pre-hospital stroke triage product, Strokepointer.

    News article on our hospital website

    TrianecT

    Social media:

    LinkedIn (Wouter Potters)
    LinkedIn (TrianecT – company)

    Scientific articles:

    1. Neurology
    2. Journal of neurology

    Highlights:

    03:21 Introduction Trianect Strokepointer

    10:24 Predicting stroke risk through blood vessel analysis
    26:03 EEG technology in ambulances
    39:04 Developing AI-powered stroke detection for ambulances
    53:44 Stroke diagnosis and treatment using AI
    59:20 Stroke treatment and rehabilitation

    Transcript:

    Wouter Potters 0:00

    Jonathan came to me, Hey, can we do EG in the ambulance, regular EG not going to happen, it just takes too long to prepare. Because the first thing that we agreed on, it has to be very, very fast, because if it’s not fast, the ambulance is not going to use it.

    Wouter Potters 0:15

    So what we decided first is we need the technology that we can measure EG in a very fast fashion. So we quickly arrived at dry electrodes, EG, which means that you have a different type of electrode, it looks a bit like like an octopus.

    Wouter Potters 0:33

    These are plastic electrode coils with silver chlorides, which is an excellent conductor to measure EG. And what you do is you put those on top of the hair, and if you twist them a little bit, they just go through the hair, we test those electrodes in our hospital, at first in volunteers, then we tested it on patients in the outpatient clinic who came in for epilepsy detection.

    Wouter Potters 1:03

    So we’ve also started looking for software that we could use to measure E T in the ambulance because all the software that we used inside the hospital, actually was quite cumbersome. But in the end, we found a very nice partner as well in that aspect, which also transformed the software for us, so that we could basically fill in a number and then click on start, and then the measurement would start running.

    Intro 1:33

    This is the recovery after stroke podcast, with Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after a stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:47

    Hello, and welcome to the Recovery after Stroke podcast. Since I mentioned my book at the beginning of Episode 276. We’ve discovered a few things that need updating, and that information has been sent back to the team, and shortly fingers crossed the book will be ready to launch. But as I was last week, I’m still giving away the first chapter free. The feedback from it so far has been fantastic.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:13

    The book is called The unexpected way that the stroke became the best thing that happened and it shares 10 secrets from stroke survivors that will transform your life. If you go to recoveryafterstroke.com/book and fill out the form. You will receive the book in your email a few moments later. If you are a stroke survivor with a story to share about your stroke experience. Now is the perfect time to join me on the show.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:37

    The interviews are not scripted, you do not have to plan for them. You just need to be a stroke survivor who wants to share your story in the hope that it will help someone else who is going through something similar. If you are a researcher who wants to share the findings of a recent study, or you are looking to recruit people into your studies, you may also wish to reach out and be a guest on my show.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:59

    If you have a commercial product that you would like to promote that is related to supporting stroke survivors. To recover there is also a path for you to join me on a sponsored episode of the show. Just go to recoveryafterstroke.com/contact fill out the form explaining briefly which category you belong to and I will respond with more details about how we can connect via Zoom.

    Introduction Trianect Strokepointer


    Bill Gasiamis 3:21
    This is episode 277. My guest today is co-founder of TrianecT Wouter Potters TrianecT is a Dutch company that is developing the Strokepointer, which is a portable EEG device, otherwise known as an electroencephalogram that can be used in ambulances to help detect large vessel occlusions, which are a type of ischemic stroke while the patient is in transit to hospital so that they are transported to the correct hospital that has the facilities to treat such medical emergencies.

    Bill Gasiamis 4:03

    Saving time in transit and decreasing the possibility of the patient being sent to a hospital that is not able to treat such conditions therefore reducing the amount of time between when the stroke patient starts to show symptoms of stroke. And when treatment begins. Therefore, saving the brain and decreasing the impact stroke has on the patient. Wouter Potters welcome to the podcast.

    Wouter Potters 4:29

    Thanks a lot, Bill. It’s a joy to be here.

    Bill Gasiamis 4:34

    Thank you for being here I get excited when I say technology is about saving the brain. I get excited but before we talk about the technology, and what you guys are working on and developing. Give me a little bit of a background about you first, and then also about the organization that you’re involved in.

    Wouter Potters 4:58

    Yeah, so I started my study as a technical physician, which is already unique for the Netherlands because it’s really at the boundary of medicine, science, and innovation. It also includes two years full-time in academic hospitals.

    Wouter Potters 5:16

    So that means that you get trained in the hospital, together with the entire team at the hospital. And you also get involved with patients and with patient care. And in the Netherlands, were also allowed to treat patients. So this is my education.

    Wouter Potters 5:31

    So I did not do medicine and technical medicine. And after that, I did a PhD in MRI. And then I started my career in neurology, which is actually where this project started. And in the neurology field, I was a staff member for seven years. During that time, I also met my, colleague, Jonathan Cuttino a stroke neurologist.

    Wouter Potters 5:56

    And he came up with the problem that he saw a lot of patients that were actually inside the hospital, and that were being treated for stroke, actually, for large vessel occlusion stroke. And half of those patients came from another hospital where they could not treat these patients. So we saw a problem there. And that’s actually when we decided we wanted to fix that problem together.

    Bill Gasiamis 6:24

    That’s a huge problem. So before we talk about the problem and your solution, let’s talk about your PhD in MRI.

    Wouter Potters 6:32

    Yes, that’s correct.

    Bill Gasiamis 6:34

    Okay, that’s a cool PhD. Tell me about that a little bit, and give me a bit of an idea of what the main focus of your study was, that got you to that outcome.

    Wouter Potters 6:45

    Yeah, so it’s really, it was a different field because the PhD was in the radiology department, where I studied the flow inside blood vessels, more specifically, the philosophy of blood inside blood vessels.

    Wouter Potters 7:00

    So this is a very basic research, we just looking at how blood flows within the blood vessel. What’s very interesting about that is that in the very, very early phases of atherosclerosis, which is also highly relevant for stroke, is that if actually, the blood goes in circles, or over to heartbeat goes in different directions next to the vessel wall.

    Wouter Potters 7:28

    That means that the blood flow is not streamlined next to the vessel wall, which means that the endothelial cells at the vessel wall, tend to align, as soon as the blood flow is not just laminar in one direction with high velocity, but also creates low velocities and of varying velocities, you get these endothelial cells, they rearrange, which makes them more prone to actually infiltration of inflammatory substances from the blood into the vessel wall.

    Wouter Potters 8:03

    Which then in the very long term, the hypothesis is that that can create atherosclerosis. In the long term, we know that that can also induce a stroke if it happens in the brain.

    Bill Gasiamis 8:16

    Because atherosclerosis induces an ischemic stroke or hemorrhagic stroke.

    Wouter Potters 8:23

    Mostly induces ischemic stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 8:26

    Okay. And that’s because you’ve got the blood flow, microscopic changes in the blood flow in the way that it creates high pressures and low pressures inside the blood vessel. And as a result, creates blood clots that form on the blood vessels, and then get released into the bloodstream, and then maybe, perhaps, into the brain.

    Wouter Potters 8:52

    It’s even a little bit more complicated the net because the blood flows next to the Anthelios cells, and you can see them as small little blocks. And if the blood flow is straightforward in one straight direction, then the cells nicely align, and they form a little bit elongated cells, and they’re tightly packed together. And as soon as the blood flow changes, so not the pressure, but the blood flow, the velocity next to the vessel wall.

    Wouter Potters 9:21

    That alignment that is also protecting the vessel wall itself, actually, this alliance a bit, and then you get this very, very slow buildup of inflammatory inducing substances in the vessel wall, and that attracts then other cells, and they build up and they slowly, very slowly produce a block, as it’s called, inside the vessel wall. And if that black at some point becomes very big, or if it’s, if it if some incidents are that ruptures.

    Wouter Potters 9:58

    Then actually it can create a stroke instantaneously ischemic stroke because then there is a sudden clotting of the blood next to the part where the atherosclerosis is, and then you can get an immediate block of the vessel, or it can produce like small plots that shoot to your brain or other body parts.

    Trianect Strokepointer – Predicting stroke risk through blood vessel analysis

    Bill Gasiamis 10:24

    Okay, that’s fascinating. It’s plumbing 101 I say that because I’ve seen some weird YouTube documentaries about different things. And every once in a while, you come up against something like plumbing, and why a copper pipe gets damaged on the inside. And it’s not dissimilar to what you just described, it’s because of the way that the pipe was joined, or welded, or the flow of the water over the joints and the welds, and a simple change in the flow of the water over the weld.

    Bill Gasiamis 11:02

    And on the inside, it can cause the joint to deteriorate far more rapidly than one would hope. And under severe load, or changes in the weather, because of colder climates, in different countries, etc. You can have different versions of life cycles on these pipes and different reasons why they burst. So it’s fascinating how that what you mentioned, is very much applicable to any kind of tube that runs a liquid through it for whatever purposes, but specifically in this in our situation, we’re talking about strokes.

    Bill Gasiamis 11:49

    So is atherosclerosis obvious It’s been happening for a long time, Are there early warning signs of atherosclerosis? Can somebody without looking at your habits, can somebody look at a blood vessel and go, This blood vessel is going to be? What’s the word? Is it impacted by atherosclerosis in 5, 10, 12 years, or something like that?

    Wouter Potters 12:23

    Yeah, it’s really difficult to state this in a general manner, because there are many patients with many different also pre-existing diseases. So everything depends on that. So and what we usually do in the clinic is that patients get symptoms, sometimes they get neurological symptoms, sometimes the atherosclerosis can also be present in other body parts.

    Wouter Potters 12:51

    For example, legs, if somebody has trouble walking, or people have less blood flow to their to relax, or they can also have problems with Alexa with terms, that can be a first warning sign. Based on those first warning signs, at the hospital, my colleagues in the radiology department can decide to do for example, ultrasounds, and with the ultrasounds in the neck, you can for example, look for constricted blood vessels constraints are the artery with atherosclerosis in the neck to see if that’s present or not.

    Wouter Potters 13:30

    What they then basically do is look at the lumen of the vessel. And if the lumen is smaller, you can say that if it’s much, much smaller than, for example, two centimeters below, you can state there is now a stenosis in his blood vessels. So a decrease of the lumen of, for example, 80%. And once you have a constriction of 80%, it’s already severely limited in terms of how much blood can flow through there. And if it becomes more, then you also get to the stage where it gets symptomatic.

    Wouter Potters 14:04

    So that means that then also people get problems from this analysis, because also the blood vessels, although they’re really big, there’s two or some reason for huge blood vessels going to the brain. So that means if one is constricted, that does not mean that there is necessarily a problem because there are still a lot of other blood vessels, or the blood vessels in your brain are connected by the circle of Willis, which is the circular structure of blood vessels. So a lot can be compensated by your own body already, which is quite amazing.

    Bill Gasiamis 14:39

    It’s fascinating, the technical amazement, the body is just so fascinating. I mean, clearly whoever designed it did a great job and made a point of protecting the brain almost at all costs to vertebral arteries and the carotid artery Roger batteries. And yeah, it’s It’s fabulous. And let’s face it, most people have had a stroke, if it wasn’t for that amazing way that the brain has been developed and the access that it has to blood from many, many different locations, most of us wouldn’t be around.

    Bill Gasiamis 15:22

    So it’s very good. I’m very grateful that it’s like that also. What it means is that sometimes stroke survivors ignore the signs of a stroke, because something doesn’t suggest necessarily that a stroke is happening, they have headaches, or they have all these weird things going on. Yes. And often that leads them to give information to perhaps 911 In America, or triple zero in Australia, or whichever the organization is in, in the Netherlands, what is it by the way, in the Netherlands.

    Wouter Potters 15:57

    In Europe is 112.

    Bill 16:00

    112, It tends to allow people to give the wrong information to the people who are going to help them. And then as a result of that, we end up perhaps waiting in an emergency room or going like you said to the wrong hospital. And that then increases the risk of severe complications because of stroke. And then sometimes you hear about people who have had a stroke, I’ve interviewed people who have had a stroke, and three, four or five days later, have gone to finally get help from somebody at a hospital.

    Bill 16:44

    And then they’re always lamenting that I should have known better, I should have gone earlier, etcetera. Now, we should have included but we didn’t, and that doesn’t matter. What matters is that what you’re working on, is a way to predict way before somebody presents to the hospital and has to wait in emergency perhaps, and then has to wait for a scan and all those things.

    Bill 17:13

    You’re presenting the possibility that stroke survivors can be supported in the ambulance. That decision can be made while they are in transit or hospital so that they go to the correct hospital and then B when they get there, there’s no guessing as to what might be the challenge with this person, there might be information already available to triage so that they can get processed appropriately. Tell me a little bit about that.

    Wouter Potters 17:50

    Yeah, first, to get back to you the first part of your question the introduction, people not recognizing symptoms of stroke, that’s extremely common in stroke patients. So that’s the neglect that they don’t have the possibility or the ability to see that there’s a stroke going on because obviously, the brain is affected. So that does not help. So people in the environment must recognize these fast signals.

    Wouter Potters 18:20

    So really, facial expressions, arms, not dropping or not moving, really recognize, know those signs, recognize the signs. And if you see them, just call 911. And explain what you see very objectively that’s already very important.

    Wouter Potters 18:38

    And then the next step, if the ambulance arrives, that’s where we come in. So I’ve been working at Amsterdam UMC for seven years, and in 2018, we had the ID to try stroke patients inside the ambulance, because we saw that half of these ambulances in the Netherlands at least drive to the wrong hospital.

    Wouter Potters 19:00

    And then these patients get picked up again by a second ambulance, usually around 60 minutes later on average, and then they get transported to their best therapy. And we all know time is the brain. So this delay can be quite destructive for individuals, meaning not going back to work going back to work, living in a nursing home, and living back home. So the differences are huge in terms of individual patients.

    Wouter Potters 19:30

    And our aim was, we wanted to develop a trial instrument that could be used in every ambulance by any ambulance personnel across the world. Also, it should be accurate, of course, because we want to accurately depict which patients have to go where, and most specifically, we want to detect large vessel occlusion strokes. So that’s a very specific type of ischemic stroke.

    Wouter Potters 20:00

    The reason why we focus so much on that specific subtype of stroke is that, in 2015, there were a lot of clinical trials that showed that endovascular treatments were very, very beneficial over regular Tramex thrombolysis. And that changed the entire field of stroke care, in the sense that people with stroke now get endovascular treatment where they go into the blood vessel and pull out large blood clots.

    Wouter Potters 20:34

    The big downside of that is it only works in the big vessels because that’s where you can get with these catheters. But if you can manage to get the blood clot out, time is brain, that’s the first important thing. So the second thing, that’s important is that you bring the patients as fast as possible to the right hospital. And inside the ambulance, we cannot diagnose stroke, because we need the CT scan right now to diagnose stroke.

    Wouter Potters 21:04

    So long story short, we decided to discuss what technology we could use to diagnose drugs, and we came up with the EEG, or the electroencephalography, or the brainwave measurements, as we call it. And these brainwave measurements, change almost instantaneously, when you suffer from a stroke, because the blood vessel closes, or is blocked.

    Wouter Potters 21:34

    And once the blood flesh is blocked, there is no oxygen and no glucose supplied to your brain cells. And that means that the activity of the brain cells immediately drops. And we know this already, because we use this technique already in the hospital, for example, in patients who operate on one of the carotid arteries to remove, for example, atherosclerosis, we use this technology to measure the brain to make sure that nothing happens to the brain during the surgery.

    Wouter Potters 22:08

    As soon as you close one of the vessels and you see that something’s going wrong in the brain, that means that the other vessels do not compensate enough to compensate for that blood vessel, which is essentially also what happens in strokes. When a festival gets blocked by a large vessel, then the area behind that vessel no longer is supplied with oxygen, and you immediately see a change in brainwaves when you see a slowing of the brainwaves and less activity. And this is what we’re trying to measure with EEG.

    Bill 22:48

    So EEG sounds familiar because most people will know about ECG. Yes, electrocardiograph, right?

    Wouter Potters 23:00

    It’s essentially the ECG for the brain, as we call it, right?

    Bill 23:03

    Okay. So the EEG is something is a technology that has already been used good track record. And it’s usually used in the operating room.

    Wouter Potters 23:16

    So a good track record has been used since the 1980s, when people still use the papers and needles with ink to measure EEG. And they’re in the hospital, it’s mostly used inside in neurology departments where they are using it to mostly diagnose patients who are suspected of epilepsy. Because in epilepsy, you have a sudden onset of huge activity inside the brain.

    Wouter Potters 23:48

    You can if you have an if you get an IED you can try to detect those events. So that’s what it’s used been for mainly, also for sleep research. So people who have trouble at night with breathing or sleeping or also get an EEG together with all kinds of other measurements to measure that. So that’s in the hospital and for monitoring during surgery.

    Wouter Potters 24:17

    It’s also been used a lot for example, in surgeries on the biggest vessels that you have in your body, the biggest arteries, you always want to make sure that your brain is not affected during the surgery because then you would end up after surgery with brain damage. So that’s also where a lot of these monitoring takes place as well.

    Bill 24:39

    And the monitoring is usually sticky pads stuck on the head is that how it usually looks that it can.

    Wouter Potters 24:48

    Allow for the monitoring actually, you want to be 100% sure of this correctly. So actually, for the monitoring, they screw these electrodes in the head of the Patients, that there’s not a lot of electrodes to them. But they are very tightly coupled with the skin so that there are three single-use electrodes, and they just twist it into the skin a little bit like a screwdriver, but then very, very tiny, which makes sure that the contact is perfect.

    Wouter Potters 25:19

    Inside the neurology department, it looks like either a cap with 32 electrodes, or more, sometimes even 256, or five on the 12 electrodes, and then each electrode that is put onto the brain is connected, to the skin, with a little bit of glue, or a little bit of like a gel. So you can imagine that if you have to attach all those electrodes, it takes a lot of time. So for 32 electrodes to people there. I think they’re busy for 10 minutes, and then all the electrodes are connected to this game.

    Wouter Potters – EEG technology in ambulances

    Bill 26:03

    Okay, so for me, because I’m a novice, and that’s okay. I see I hear about technology. We’re already using it inside the hospital, we’re already using it in the operating rooms. Just take it and put it in the ambulance, no big deal, right? That should be as simple as that. However, the process is not as simple as let’s just take it and put it in the ambulance.

    Bill 26:29

    Explain to me the thinking behind getting it in the ambulance and how you guys have to change it. What is all that has almost been proven to be effective I should change it so that it continues to be effective in a different setting where the parameters are very different. You’re in a car, the car is moving, you don’t have all the equipment, you don’t have a lot of technicians on hand, you have ambulance drivers, who potentially paramedics and who are not necessarily doctors don’t have the skill in this area.

    Bill 27:09

    Oh, my God, all the things that you guys would have had to solve. To put this in an ambulance. It just seems like a massive project. Tell me a little bit about the transition from inside the hospital to in the ambulance.

    Wouter Potters 27:20

    Yeah, so the first thing we did this week, we, because Jonathan, at this point, this is the point where Jonathan came to me, Hey, can we do EG in the ambulance? And we were like, okay, regular EG not gonna happen, it just takes too long to prepare, because the first thing that we agreed on, it has to be very, very fast, because if it’s not fast, the ambulance is not going to use it for good reason. After all, these patients have to get to the hospital as soon as possible.

    Wouter Potters 27:50

    So you cannot spend 10 minutes on electrodes and then hope that will go right, and then do this in a trial or a study four for free and with more than 300 patients, that’s just not ethical. So what we decided first is we need a technology that we can measure EG in a very fast fashion. So we quickly arrived at dry electrodes EG, which means that you have a different type of electrode, it looks a bit like like an octopus. And these are plastic electrodes coated with silver-silver chloride, which is an excellent conductor to measure EG.

    Wouter Potters 28:34

    And what you do is you put us on top of the hair, and if you twist them a little bit, they just go through the hair. And this was back in 2018. There were just a few innovations in this area. And one of our partners just released a US to commercial products that could measure dry electrodes, etc. And we thought, well, we’re gonna need that specific product, and we’re going to test it.

    Wouter Potters 29:02

    So that’s what we first did we tested those electrodes in our hospital, at first in volunteers, then we tested it on patients in the outpatient clinic, we came in for epilepsy detection. And we just asked them after the measurements, do we want to participate in a study just to check this, check out these new electrodes, and at some point, whatever, okay, this is going to work.

    Wouter Potters 29:25

    So we’ve also started looking for software that we could use to measure eg in the ambulance because all the software that we used inside the hospital, actually was quite cumbersome, with a lot of clicks, a lot of training required just to just click on Start measurements. So in the end, we found a very nice partner as well in that aspect, which also transformed the software for us, so that we could fill in a number that was the start. Then just click can start, and then the measurement will start running.

    Wouter Potters 30:02

    And that’s actually what we’ve been using then. And the other thing was it needed to be portable. So we created a nice aluminum suitcase that was, I think this big. And we had the suitcase. And we also tested with the suitcase successfully in our emergency department, because we were just stepping it up a little bit. We didn’t want to start in acute patients. But once we were sure that the technology worked, we could validate in these acute stroke patients, which are often very severe.

    Wouter Potters 30:40

    So they’re also really hard to obstruct, sometimes. So we wanted to validate that this would work within five minutes from start to end. And we did this at the emergency department also in quite a lot of patients and we saw, okay, now we know we think this is going to work. And we were already in discussions with ambulance services as well. First Ambulance Amsterdam was the first ambulance company we collaborated with. So we went with the suitcase to them.

    Wouter Potters 31:07

    And we said, well, we have this and this ID for this study. And we want to place this device in your hands. And they were looking at this and he said, No, far too heavy. We’re not going to carry this. And they said Come with us. So we went to the ambulance. And actually, they showed us what they had to carry to each patient where they went in with us, okay, we have to rethink this. And actually, some of the ambulance personnel there were very helpful. So they also showed us what they would want to improve this.

    Wouter Potters 31:36

    So we quickly just got all the equipment out of our Aminian suitcase and used repackages in a lighter, lightweight back. And from there, we continued with our first study, which included 12 ambulances, because later on a second ambulance company joined. And then the next step was really to train all the ambulance personnel. So we trained 125 ambulance personnel, which was quite a lot. But thanks to our PhD students, that was all performed in a very, very short timeframe.

    Wouter Potters 32:10

    And then we just started measuring. And at the start, there were still a lot of hurdles, because data quality is worse, and is a major issue with EEG, because if you compare it to ECG, it’s affected 1000s, lower in terms of signal strength. So it’s a really small signal that we’re trying to measure. But we slowly got the software better and better to also prepare, for example, to look at contact quality with the skin. And at the end of the study, we got to a point where we could measure correctly, around 65% of the patients, which is still not sufficient.

    Wouter Potters 32:55

    But to prove the general principle that we can use the G for structured, large vessel occlusion stroke in the ambulance, that was more than sufficient because we knew that the technology could be improved. After all, we have many ideas to improve it. There’s a new study going on, that hourly implements some of those improvements the for the headset for the gap.

    Wouter Potters 33:20

    And we have new developments going on also within the company to further improve data quality, and also to provide feedback to the m&s personnel while they are measuring because that’s important. That’s something we did not do in the first study.

    Bill 33:35

    It just sounds amazing. So the study the initial study with the 120 ambulance personnel that went into their ambulances, did it reveal the type of information that you’re hoping and as a result, did that mean that you guys got patients to the right hospital instead of the wrong hospital?

    Wouter Potters 33:57

    So we got the right information. But we only knew this after we analyzed the data. So that’s always the problem. Nobody ever measured inside the ambulance, or at least nobody published about it. And so we did not have the data on beforehand. We could actually, know it from the emergency department. But the downside of the emergency department is that’s always later than the ambulance. So we did not know what we would find in the ambulance yet. We had some IDs, but we did not write an algorithm yet that could make a decision.

    Wouter Potters 34:35

    It would be unethical if we would have made a decision already then. So the first study was about collecting data. And afterwards deciding if we would have made a decision using this algorithm. Would this patient then be brought to the right hospital yes or no? So this is what we did. We developed an algorithm based on the data we collected and then retrospectively looked at it If we had used this algorithm, would that have helped this LV stroke patient? Yes or no?

    Bill 35:06

    And you got some positive results? Absolutely, yeah.

    Wouter Potters 35:10

    So we had 90% accuracy 91%. Actually, for one of the parameters 80% accuracy for one of the other parameters, means that we can detect the elvio strokes well. But at the same time, there is also a small portion of the nonelvio strokes or another diagnosis that we also detected as alpha strokes. This means they also get brought to a very comprehensive stroke center, where they can also be excellently treated.

    Bill 35:44

    Right. That’s fascinating. So then there’s another level of training that needs to occur because what you’re hoping is that, are you hoping that the data is going to be able to be live in the field? Understood, and then, therefore, the people in the ambulance make the decision? Or does that data get sent elsewhere? And then the information gets sent back to the ambulance about where to send that patient.

    Intro 36:09

    If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. Like, how long will it take to recover? Will I recover? What things should I avoid? In case I make matters worse, doctors will explain things that, you’ve never had a stroke before, and you probably don’t know what questions to ask. If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery.

    Intro 36:39

    If you’re finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you it’s called Seven Questions to Ask Your Doctor about your Stroke. These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition. And they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery, head to the website. Now, recoverafterstroke.com and download the guide. It’s free.

    Wouter Potters 37:12

    Yeah, so both options are possible, we have a very strong preference for deciding on the ambulance because ambulance personnel is very independent. Because they’re very independent, they’re also really fast. Because if you have to call somebody send data, even if it’s all automated, and then wait for the call back. That cost you a few minutes. In a stroke, every second counts. So why not do everything on site as much as possible, because we do do the measurement before we start driving.

    Wouter Potters 37:47

    Because we don’t want artifacts from driving. Because you never know if there is a roundabout or if there are bumps in the road that will cause artifacts, and you never know when they will happen. So we measure while we’re still standing. And then we do the measurements. The idea is then that our algorithm which we now developed, will be used to make a decision and then the eminence personnel can use that decision from the algorithm to decide if I’m going to this hospital, or if I’m going to this hospital.

    Wouter Potters 38:18

    And there are many more options. Because there are a lot of different regions and a lot of different countries, the distances in Australia are much different from the distances. In the Netherlands, for example, we don’t take stroke patients with a plane from one region to another region. I think in Australia, this does happen.

    Wouter Potters 38:36

    So there are a lot of different situations and countries where actually, the same algorithm might provide a different outcome because you have to take into account the likelihood of a large vessel occlusion stroke, which you also have to take into account that in some countries, it takes three hours to get the patients to large vessel occlusion stroke treatments. So these are all factors that need to be taken into account.

    Developing AI-powered stroke detection for ambulances

    Bill 39:04

    Yeah, in Australia, some people live 3, 4, or 5 hours away from the nearest hospital, let alone the nearest stroke unit. Yes. So we have the Royal Flying Doctors, which offers a service to pick up people in airplanes and bring them back to the hospital. So there’s that. And then there’s also just depending on you know, where near the metropolitan area people live, how easy how easily accessible it is to get to a hospital where we’ll vote, they’ll be flown in by helicopter.

    Bill 39:40

    For example, if they are an hour away, road traffic conditions would mean that perhaps that trip would take two or three hours. So they get Hallie back into the hospital. Three, what at least in Melbourne is at least I think three or four major hospitals that accept Helicopter patients. Yes. So it’s. So it’s amazing that you’re going to be able to take the technology out of the hospital and then bring it into the ambulance.

    Bill 40:16

    The ambulance is the absolute maximum marvel of modern medicine, it’s just the most miraculous thing that exists, the things that paramedics can do and achieve for the people are fascinating. I’m, I know, I know lots of people have had a stroke and have not been able to detect that they were having a stroke, because they didn’t know they were too young, never came across a fast message, never knew anybody who had a stroke, assumed it was one thing or another or need to make an edit to decide about I need to get to work today.

    Bill 40:57

    Because if I don’t get to work, I’m gonna lose my job. And then as a result of those decisions, they don’t go back to work at all. And this situation would impact the lives of a lot of people. Now, it’s, it seems exciting. And it seems like this is a project that’s going to come to fruition very, very quickly, should be very soon. But the process isn’t very quick how long has the project been bubbling away and developing this possibility?

    Wouter Potters 41:31

    Yeah. Because it’s very much, it’s very much something that should be in every ambulance all around the world, if you can manage to get it in there. But I imagined focusing on on how far widening the scope of the project is, and how many people you can implement this process onto and then help would surely be a distraction. It’s then about kind of trying to go well, let’s just get all our I’s dotted here and our T’s crossed right here. And let’s just make this thing robust, make it work, let’s get the data.

    Bill 47:27

    And let’s develop it further. And make it make it what you said, it should save time and not take time. That’s what an amazing being to be considering, you know when you’re developing a product, fish should be saving time and not taking time. So I love the idea of that. And although I do see a massive scope for it, it obviously would be fantastic to know that when it’s ready to go to the United States or Australia, they’d be able to make a quicker decision.

    Bill 48:04

    Because you guys have done all the work already. And you’re getting amazing results. In the Netherlands and Europe, for example. Now, when you are dealing with the Netherlands, are you automatically dealing with all of Europe? or Yes, individual countries, then differently set up, does it being in the European Union break that barrier a little?

    Wouter Potters 48:31

    Now, for the regulatory approval, we have the CE mark. So it’s a bit like the FDA approval. That’s the same across Europe. But that does not mean that the insurance companies and all the ambulance services are organized in the same fashion as well. Because there’s always going to be small differences. But also, in essence, the problem is the same everywhere, because their stroke patients are everywhere, and their ambulances are everywhere.

    Wouter Potters 49:00

    Not every hospital has an event under endovascular treatments and not every hospital will get it as well, because just impossible to deliver good care of such high complexity in every hospital. Yeah.

    Bill 49:14

    And how does how does a project like this get funded? I imagine it takes a lot of resources to get it to the point of actually having a product that’s in an ambulance, and then developing it further. How does it get funded? How did you guys manage that?

    Wouter Potters 49:30

    Yeah, so for the research phase. We were surprised because usually what happens if you apply for research funding? You apply for the funding and then you get like a no, four times nine times and then you get a yes. But for and it also happens for all our other projects put for this project. For some reason, we don’t know why we applied for four projects and we got four yeses.

    Wouter Potters 49:56

    So we got Well, I wouldn’t say easy because we’re still to work, but we got relatively easily funded for actually the first MLS phase. So we started with crowdfunding for the Dutch heart of our nation. So we did a crowdfunding campaign to get the first 60k in funding to outfit six of those ambulances with EEG devices. And then some commercial companies contributed, just gave us or gave Jonathan, some funding to also make sure that the ambulance project got on track so that we could speed up a little bit.

    Wouter Potters 50:38

    And with that, we could collect pilot data to show that we could measure EEG data with ambulance personnel. That allowed us to go for slightly bigger grants with other commercial collaborators, for example, the company that develops the EEG device and the caps. And they’re a company that works on AI algorithms, also an acute stroke.

    Wouter Potters 51:04

    So with that information with that consortium, we could then really get to the next stage where we could hire two Ph.D. students if you will then collect more data. You also have more ideas for new funding, and we could apply for the next funding. And this has been ongoing like this. So this is the research funding. But well, I quit my job. And I thought, well, it was very easy to get funded.

    Wouter Potters 51:29

    So it’s probably gonna stay this way. But then you get in a situation where you have a great ID, you validated in research, and then you want to bring it to the patient, and the only way to bring it to the patient is to create a commercial product out of it.

    Wouter Potters 51:45

    Because it’s it requires millions of funding to get from the stage where you’re in academia, where you validate the ID, to, the place where you have the regulatory approval, so that takes millions and a lot of work for years. And then you need to find somebody that is interested, that wants to find that part. To the ends, because you cannot go halfway because then you have like, half of everything is nothing.

    Wouter Potters 52:16

    So that’s now the tricky part. So we have two shareholders Amsterdam UMC, and the company from Germany, they believe in this ID. And they found that the first round with loads, and we’ve got a lot of nondilutive public funding as well. And this is what we’re now all using to just reduce the risks in our company so that we can reduce the risk sufficiently so that we can attract external investors because that’s the next step, we need external money also, to further develop this ID into a product.

    Wouter Potters 52:57

    And for me, it sometimes still feels weird, because we first had to add, that we just want to make an impact with our research. But I now also recognize that you cannot reach that impact. Well, you also have to be very commercial because otherwise, those people will filter ID from the party after academia, you have to be a little bit commercial because otherwise, they won’t fund it.

    Wouter Potters 53:23

    Because things that investors want are impact. But he also wants a return on investment. So that’s the two things that Well, at first, they were kind of conflicting for me because I’m a scientist by heart. I’m slowly moving towards the commercial side. So this is the next challenge that we have.

    Trianect Strokepointer – Stroke diagnosis and treatment using AI

    Bill 53:43

    That’s the problem in academia is that the people that are doing it are passionate about their project, and they want to get the information out there. They want to discover something and tell you about it. And then it stops there and it kind of falls on deaf ears because there’s no point putting a financial investment into something if you can’t get a return on your investment somewhere down the track.

    Bill 54:09

    I love that idea. I love the fact that you guys have slowly but surely, the product has molded people from being researchers or Ph.D. Ph.D. students to researchers to commercially thinking individuals who now are raising capital who now are looking for, you know, a whole bunch of ways to solve all these different problems to the gets this thing in the ambulance.

    Bill 54:35

    In the end, that is exactly what’s necessary. It’s a massive skill set. I imagined it would have been really difficult for you to go from one stage to the other stage to the other stage and to then at some point, you’re going I’m not doing what I started out doing. I didn’t think I was ever going to be raising capital or trying to find money for this. Is it bizarre to go through all those stages in your journey and end up being this guy who needs money?

    Wouter Potters 55:06

    Well, in some way, it’s bizarre. But I also like it a lot, because, down the road, you’ll learn a lot about how all the different parts of this method of integration work. After all, I’ve worked in the hospital for 11 years, seven years in neurology. I’ve also done innovation within the hospital and just with hospital money within the hospital within the neurology department and the entire hospital.

    Wouter Potters 55:33

    And then it’s, then it’s really easy to get innovation through because you just have money coming from one source, and the same source benefits. And then you just can create a nice product that’s useful for users within the hospital. With right now we want to create something really for society.

    Wouter Potters 55:48

    So you need to be involved with all the stakeholders, you need to know what everybody wants, and you learn a lot down the road on all the aspects of company building, but also on how you can do research better if you would do it next time. Because all the choices we’ve made were made a lot of sense. But if I look back here, there are of course always things that also could have been more efficient, better.

    Wouter Potters 56:16

    Maybe it was smarter not to publish, our data in a very early stage and just keep everything a secret, and then at the end, publish everything, but also have more protection for the company. So these are all things that that come down comes under.

    Bill 56:32

    Yeah, I see. Because then you risk other people taking the idea and trying to get it to market.

    Wouter Potters 56:42

    Well, I’m not that worried about that. Because our goal is for this technology to reach the patient. So if another person reaches the patient’s earlier, the beverage. But we also want to get our innovation out there, because we think we have a unique data set.

    Wouter Potters 57:00

    It’s the largest EEG data set and pre-hospital stroke patients. So we really can create the best algorithms, because for algorithms that can make decisions that really can determine life or death, you need to be sure. So more is more data, more good quality data is better.

    Wouter Potters 57:22

    And we have that big advantage that we do have that data. I don’t know if any other research groups or companies have so much access to this data.

    Bill 57:33

    Yeah, I have one more question. Before we wrap up? Do you have an idea of the number of people that you will be able to help? So for example, one in four people in the world will have a stroke in their lifetime? 80% of those will be ischemic strokes. And then I don’t know what the data is, after that. How many of them are, you know, large visual vessels? occlusions, and all that kind of stuff?

    Bill 57:59

    So then based on the information, the data that you know, the statistics are, you know about stroke and large vessel occlusions? Do you know the number of people? Or do you have a hope of what the number of people is that you’ll be able to assist further, as opposed to when this technology didn’t exist?

    Wouter Potters 58:19

    Yes. So I think that each year if you look at the global picture, we could help 1.8 million people who are now being brought to the wrong hospital. So I think there is a large opportunity there. And this number is also growing each year with the aging population. So I think there are many, many people. And added to that, we also see that endovascular treatments get better and better.

    Wouter Potters 58:47

    So that also more and more people with strokes in slightly smaller vessels can be helped. So and also there is of course hemorrhagic stroke. In the end, we also hope that we can detect those types of strokes. So I also hope that we can enlarge as we collect more data and more types of patients that can also increase the number of people that we can help by directing them directly to write treatments for those patients.

    Stroke treatment and rehabilitation

    Bill 59:15

    Are certainly hope that you can also roll it out for hemorrhagic stroke patients. It’s an area that seems to be neglected but because they’re not as common as ischemic strokes, there’s less work bandhan in that space, but I’m a hemorrhagic stroke survivor. And I know a lot of them who have come, come good and I’ve had help and have been supported and things are going well. So we’re not missing out on amazing technology by any stretch of the imagination.

    Bill 59:47

    That’s certain, but what that means is if you’re getting a minute, and as an additional 1.8 million people support it and help that is several For an amazing number of people that are going to go back to regular work, they’re going to go back to regular life, they’re going to be able to go and be a regular part of their community.

    Bill 1:00:10

    And they’re going, that’s going to decrease the number of incidences of disability after stroke, that will then decrease the number of people that need medical assistance and rehabilitation, and timing, you know, off work and all these things and not being a part of their family. I mean, the scope for positive change down the line is massive, because that’s the thing that I understand is that when somebody has a stroke, getting back to regular life is a really big task.

    Bill 1:00:42

    For me, it took seven years, my whole journey took, it took three and a half, three years to get to surgery to brain surgery, after three bleeds. And then it took another four years to get into a cognitive space where I was capable of holding down a job. And being an active member of my community, my family, you know, playing the roles that I was playing before, as a father, as a husband, as a son as a brother. And it’s just the scope. Down the line seems like it’s going to make a really big impact.

    Bill 1:01:19

    Right there where we want it. I’ve heard of people who have been lucky from thrombectomy is where they’ve been into, at the right time at the right place, exactly the right things, everything fell into place for them. So they ended up in the emergency room, a stroke was diagnosed almost immediately, and they had a thrombectomy. Within an hour, the clot was removed. And then I’ve also heard of people who have been from TPA.

    Bill 1:01:46

    So this just sounds like it’s another awesome move in that part of the process where you guys get to help those guys who implemented thrombectomy as a solution who implement the TPA as a solution, you guys get to say to him, Hey, here’s another one for you. I’ve, we’ve got another one for you. And we know that way, way before we ended up in the wrong emergency room.

    Wouter Potters 1:02:12

    Yeah, that’s really what we are what we are trying to do, really getting more patients to the right treatment in the right hospital. That’s the goal that we have, because I recognize also the story they tell about grief limitation, and how long it takes. It’s an incredible journey that some people make. And also, it’s quite incredible what people can achieve, even with their disabilities.

    Wouter Potters 1:02:38

    But if we can somehow reduce only a very, very small portion of the disability for an individual, that can make a huge difference. For example, if somebody can play the guitar again, if he fancies playing guitar that would change his life. So that’s really what I hope to achieve. Also, with our products, getting more people to the right treatments at the right time.

    Bill 1:03:04

    Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast, I appreciate it. Great, fantastic stuff that you guys are doing. I loved the fact that there are people out there who are researching to find solutions to help people they’ve never met before.

    Wouter Potters 1:03:19

    Yes, thanks a lot for having this podcast and for inviting me. And I hope that also a lot of I don’t hope for future stroke patients, but I loved also that future stroke patients can find your podcast because I think they can find a lot of help there as well.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:36

    Thanks for joining us on today’s episode, remember, grab a copy of chapter one of the book The Unexpected Way that a Stroke Became the Best Thing That Happened by visiting recoveryafterstroke.com/book. Take a look around and discover what the book is all about. Click the Download Free Chapter button. As always, to learn more about my guests, including their links to social media and other pages.

    Bill 1:04:00

    And to download a full transcript of the entire interview, please go to recoveryafterstroke.com/episodes thank you to everyone who has already left a review. It means the world to me. People are finding the podcast a lot easier these days. And they are telling me that it’s one of the best things that happened to them finding the podcast helps them to get through this stroke.

    Bill 1:04:24

    So if you haven’t left a review yet, and you don’t mind leaving a review, please do so on iTunes and Spotify. Just leave a few words about what the show means to you. And that was going to make a massive difference for somebody who is looking for this type of content. Now, if you’re watching on YouTube, comment below the video I love seeing the comments.

    Bill 1:04:48

    I respond to all the comments. And to get notifications of future episodes. You have to subscribe to the show but also hit the notifications Bell. Thank you once again for began listening. I appreciate you see you on the next episode.

    Intro 1:05:04

    Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals’ opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast or the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed.

    Intro 1:05:21

    All content on this website at any linked blog, podcast, or video material controlled by this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis, the content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice.

    Intro 1:05:44

    The information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances, or health objectives. Do not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional.

    Intro 1:05:58

    Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional, your doctor, or your rehabilitation program based on our content if you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition, please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional if you are experiencing a health emergency or think you might be called triple zero if in Australia or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance or go to the nearest hospital emergency department.

    Intro 1:06:23

    Medical information changes constantly. While we aim to provide current quality information in our content. We did not provide any guarantees and assume no legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, currency, or completeness of the content. If you choose to rely on any information within our content, you do so solely at your own risk. We are careful with the links we provide however third-party links from our website are followed at your own risk and we are not responsible for any information you find there.

    The post Strokepointer – In Ambulance Stroke Triage | Wouter Potters appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

    1 hr 7 min
  • Brain Stem At 20 Years Old | Tristan Gibson

    Tristan Gibson experienced a brain stem stroke at the age of 20 and is on a journey to become the best person he can be.

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    Highlights:

    03:16 Introduction

    06:16 Overcoming depression and anxiety through language
    12:03 Stroke recovery and identity shift
    16:48 Overcoming depression and anxiety
    24:29 Stroke recovery and personal growth
    31:21 Personal growth and self-improvement
    37:46 Overcoming Limiting Beliefs
    46:38 Dealing with the challenges
    53:06 Self-care and mindfulness
    59:43 Overcoming challenges and optimizing life after a stroke
    1:08:41 Coping with stroke and brain hemorrhages

    Transcript:

    Tristan Gibson 0:00

    Something that was massively massively massively important and my journey to overcome depression, and anxiety and become the best version of myself. I started challenging myself to take cold showers what I started with once I realized that the reason why are one of the reasons why I felt so depressed and anxious, was because my life was easy.

    Tristan Gibson 0:24

    You know, I had nothing to do nothing to think about other than the depression and anxiety. And when I started challenging myself, it, really, really started showing me that I can overcome my initial feeling of this. What else can I overcome? You know, and I took my first ice bath in May of this year 20.3, And holy crap. The adrenaline rush that I got after that, was amazing.

    Tristan Gibson 0:57

    This is the Recovery after Stroke podcast. With Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after stroke.

    Bill 1:10

    Hello, everybody, and welcome to the recovery aftershock podcast. This, for the people who are on YouTube watching, is the first copy of my book, which means I’m one step closer to finally making it available for purchase. But it’s not ready yet. And it’s not my fault. There were a few errors that we picked up in the printing, the front cover is a little bit not exactly as I’d like it to be. And the colored pages inside the book, have a couple of little errors with the color.

    Bill 1:42

    Now that means that we’re one step closer, once again, another step closer another step. I didn’t know that was going to be there. But it should be ready soon and it will go live and I promise as soon as it is ready. I will let everybody know. Thank you to everybody who has already downloaded the first chapter more than 100 people have already downloaded the first step the feedback has been great. So thank you for that.

    Bill 2:10

    The three chapter is still available, you can still go to recoveryafterstroke.com/book and fill out the form and you will receive the first chapter free in your email. A few moments later. The book is called The Unexpected Way That The Stroke Became The Best Thing That Happened.

    Bill 2:29

    And it shares 10 secrets from stroke survivors that will transform your life. If you are a stroke survivor with a story to share about your stroke experience. Now is the perfect time to join me on the show that interviews are not scripted, you do not have to plan for them.

    Bill 2:46

    All you need to do to qualify is be a stroke survivor who wants to share your story in the hope that it will help someone else who is going through something similar. If you are a researcher who wants to share the findings of a recent study, or you are looking to recruit people into studies, you may also wish to reach out and be a guest on my show.

    Bill 3:05

    If you have a commercial product that you would like to promote, that is related to supporting stroke survivors to recover. There is also a path for you to join me on a sponsored episode of the show.

    Introduction – Brain Stem Stroke Recovery


    Bill 3:16
    Just go to recoveryafterstroke.com/contact and fill out the form explaining briefly which category you belong to. And now we’ll respond with more details about how we can connect via Zoom. This is episode 276. And my guest today is Tristan Gibson, who was just 20 years old when he experienced a brain stem stroke in 2019. And is now on a journey of personal transformation to be the best it can be. Tristan Gibson, welcome to the podcast.

    Tristan Gibson 3:46

    Thank you, Mr. Bill. I’m honored to be here.

    Bill 3:49

    It’s my pleasure, this is your first podcast. This is my first podcast where somebody is sitting in a room that has a red light on. And it looks weird. It looks like it’s one of those filters that people put on their images these days. But we’ll talk about that a little bit later. Tell us first a little bit about what happened to you.

    Tristan Gibson 4:15

    So actually, I was talking to my family today. And they corrected me I was told that I’ve had eight brain surgeries. They said it was eight brain procedures. So I’m not sure how to distinguish that. I consider it 8 brain surgeries because that’s what I was told. However,  shots, revisions, and stuff like that aren’t considered surgery, which I’m not sure about anyway.

    Bill 4:44

    You’ve had you’ve had you’ve had people go into your head eight times.

    Tristan Gibson 4:50

    Yeah basically.

    Bill 4:51

    Okay, let’s stick with that.

    Tristan Gibson 4:52

    So I played soccer most of my life, and falling in love with the sport became my identity. In high school in 11th grade had a weird I don’t want to say migraine, it was a, I was sitting at the table. I remember this vividly, I was sitting at the table with my family. And I was eating, spaghetti. Watching, I think it was Big Brother we were big into Big Brother at the time. And I looked up from my plate and looked at the TV.

    Tristan Gibson 5:25

    And I could only see the right half the TV could only see the right half of whatever I was looking at. So I kept calling finished my food, went to my room to play video games could only see the right half TV. So I went to my mom who’s a nurse. And I was like, I can only see the right half of whatever I’m looking at. She looked at my eyes. They were unevenly dilated, whatever she said, rushed me to the hospital, kind of found out after brain cyst.

    Tristan Gibson 5:50

    The doctor said it shouldn’t grow because it’s made out of skin cells or something. And he told me, I could keep playing soccer, just to watch him hitting the ball. I said, okay, cool.

    Overcoming depression and anxiety through language


    Tristan Gibson 6:02
    So in 12th grade, a Washington ball. Well, I became the second or third soccer athlete in high school, and the first person in my family to play college soccer or college sports. And this whole reason I went to college, I was very, very, very motivated to become a starter on the team. So freshman, sophomore years, I was busting my butt every day on the practice field, doing whatever it took to get me a little closer to go, you know. And one day, toward the end of my sophomore year of college, I got hit extremely hard.

    Tristan Gibson 6:41

    The hardest boy I’ve ever had. Had a sure concussion. I stepped out of the practice for about five minutes, a kind of game, and my surroundings jumped back into practice. And then I went back to my dorm to study but like knives are just piercing my brain takes them on. It’s like what is this, she told me to rush to the hospital to find out the cystic is grown. And it was blocking a spinal fluid flow, which was called hydrocephalus. And the doctor said that if I didn’t have the surgery, within six months, I would be in a coma.

    Tristan Gibson 7:24

    Looking back almost seems a little bit like fear fear-mongering kind of thing, you know. Because Mom and I didn’t get a second opinion. We just went through with it because we’re like, Oh God, I don’t want to be in a coma in six months, you know.

    Tristan Gibson 7:40

    So we went through with the surgery. And I was back in the hospital. I was going through the surgery. The next day, it was a little difficult for me to walk.

    Tristan Gibson 7:55

    But I got it back down and I was released an excellent. Within a week, I had meningitis, was rushed back to the hospital spent a week in the hospital for meningitis. And it was released after that. So went back to college. And I was getting back in shape for soccer. I was working every day. Just out there with my brothers and all that. Then one morning one night whatever. At 3 am, I just felt like a fire was burning from the base of the shot in my head to the end of my shot in my abdomen. And my roommate rustling hospital. I don’t remember anything.

    Tristan Gibson 8:39

    The only thing that I remember from each of my hospital stays whenever I had surgery was the way I like to frame it think back to your first memory before we were born. What do you remember seeing and feeling? Nothing. Exactly. I had what I like to consider the peaceful dark abyss saw nothing felt nothing. It was the most peace have ever felt in my life.

    Tristan Gibson 9:09

    So you can imagine the stress and anxiety and my depression that are the stress, anxiety, and depression that I felt when it seemed like I went to sleep one night in my apartment, woke up and my grandparent’s place and half of my body wasn’t working. And my head hurts. And I have this weird thing sticking out of my head. And I just don’t know what happened, you know?

    Bill 9:39

    Was was let’s pause for a second. I just want to pick you up on something. You said, my anxiety and my depression and then you changed your words. You said yes. That anxiety and that depression. What? Yeah, tell me what you just did, because it’s really important to hear.

    Tristan Gibson 9:56

    Yes, so I see struggled with crippling depression and anxiety for almost a year. And it’s still something that I’m kind of working on, you know, but I’ve overcome it. When you identify with whatever you have whatever’s holding you back, like saying, my depression, my anxiety, my diabetes, whatever it is, you are identifying with it, therefore making it part of you. When you stop doing that, when you say, the depression, the anxiety, the diabetes, whatever it is, that’s when you start to create a little bit of a separation.

    Tristan Gibson 10:39

    And then you can, later on, put a little wedge in there and create more and more and more until it’s completely gone. You know, like, I,

    Bill 10:48

    My, when you say mine, but anxiety, you’re embodying it. And you’re setting it in stone and your words, every time you repeat that, going down that path and setting it further and further and further. So the idea is to not make it yours, just talk about it as if it’s something that you have, that you’re dealing with temporarily, that you’re going to get better from overcoming work with transform, whatever the term you want to use is rather than making it embodied, and a part of you, sir.

    Tristan Gibson 11:28

    So the moments that I learned the importance of the language that we used, I immediately started implementing that. And it’s not easy to fix, you know, after 2021 22 years of talking that we talked, I mean, three or four years later, I’m still working on it, you know. And, I mean, it’s just, it’s a difficult thing to change. But it is so worth it. That is the first thing that I started doing to overcome that depression and anxiety, you know, and I’m glad that you stopped me on that because that’s a great explanation.

    Brain stem Stroke Recovery and identity shift

    Bill 12:03

    When you woke up at your grandparent’s house, how old were you?

    Tristan Gibson 12:08

    I was 20. So I went through all of that at 20 years old.

    Bill 12:12

    And what do you keep an obvious question? To Captain orangutangs? And we’ll talk about it?

    Tristan Gibson 12:21

    Yes, sir.

    Bill 12:25

    What caused you to experience anxiety? And depression at age 20? What was the underlying deep? Cause? Not? I couldn’t play soccer anymore. But there was more to that, right? Oh, yeah.

    Tristan Gibson 12:43

    So I believe, I haven’t done much deep diving into this part of the depression and anxiety. As far as I know, it wasn’t because half of my body couldn’t work, you know, I was an athlete my whole life. And I become, I don’t wanna say I’ve mastered but I was better at using my body than most people, because I was a college athlete, you know, and apologies, but um, I was better at using my body than most people.

    Tristan Gibson 13:13

    And then all of a sudden, my left side, just like the mind-muscle connection was completely gone, you know, I’m still working on that connection. It’s just losing that ability, and having to relearn how to do it. It was so frustrating, I frustrated myself over it. I gave myself anxiety. I depress myself, and all that. It was I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy.

    Bill 13:40

    Pretty logical as well, considering the level of activity that you up to your age and all the things that normal kids do at 1920 21. And then it’s taken away. And then you’re stuck with water warm? What am I supposed to do with this body of mine?

    Bill 14:04

    And then how do I hang out and be a part of the community that I was a part of in this state? You can’t attend soccer matches anymore training, all the things that make you you? How did you shift out of the anxiety and depression? How did you become aware of it and then start to shift out of it?

    Tristan Gibson 14:33

    If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be. You’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. How long will it take to recover? Will I recover? What things should I avoid in case I make matters worse, doctors will explain things that you’ve never had a stroke before.

    Tristan Gibson 14:55

    You probably don’t know what questions to ask. If this is you, you may be Missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com, where you can download a guide that will help you. It’s called seven questions to ask your doctor about your stroke.

    Tristan Gibson 15:17

    These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition, but they’ll also help you take a more active role in your recovery. Head to the website. Now, recoverafterstroke.com and download the guide. It’s free.

    Tristan Gibson 15:36

    I think I was always aware of it. But I had accepted it as okay, this is how I am you know. And when I realized that I’m not the same person I was before the surgeries, because the neurosurgeon, placed a shunt on the right side of my brain.

    Tristan Gibson 15:57

    And then the second shot that he placed after it failed, was on the left side of my brain and my frontal lobe. And that cause as far as I know, that’s what I was told, cause the brainstem stroke and cause my left side become like, yeah.

    Tristan Gibson 16:13

    And part of the function of the frontal lobe from the research I’ve done is personality. So when he placed that shunt right there, read, as I call the athlete, Persona dot, you know, Tristan, or Catherine Ranga, Tang, you know, that was basically like a rebirthing, you know, and once I created the separation from who I was to who I am, that’s when I started being able to overcome the depression, anxiety, that’s when I learned the importance of words and all this other stuff.

    Tristan Gibson overcoming depression and anxiety


    Bill 16:48
    Wow, that’s huge. So once you understood that you’re, you’re far more than the identity you had given yourself and committed to, then things started to shift for the better.

    Tristan Gibson 17:01

    Sir, I fully believe that personality and who we are, are fluid, you can change at any time, no matter what age, if you want to, you know?

    Bill 17:12

    Yeah, I did. I did. 37 posts, three brain blades, and brain surgery. The guy before me, didn’t wasn’t a podcaster didn’t have a coaching practice that he was providing. People didn’t, didn’t have lots of things, we could go into what I didn’t do forever. But the reality is, is that post-stroke, I was able to reimagine myself and kind of take a risk to dream big on something that should not have been possible for the guy that I thought I used to be. And turns out.

    Tristan Gibson 17:58

    Oh, yeah. And when you said that, I got chills, because once I’ve changed my thought, process, and view on what I’ve been through, I was able to, like start embodying and becoming the highest version of myself. And I changed my mindset from Why me? This sucks. I hate this. I don’t like my life, too. Why not me? You know? Why not? Me? So I can show other people that as possible, why not me? So I can help guide people through this process, you know, why not me?

    Tristan Gibson 18:38

    So I can help people overcome the depression and anxiety that they suffer or struggle with, you know, and I wanted to be a coach, before the surgery, I want to be a soccer coach. Now, I am going to be a coach to help people overcome depression and anxiety. Wow,

    Bill 18:58

    that’s so cool. For somebody who’s been there, who’s for somebody who’s had what you’ve had, and at the age that you’ve had, you’re going to be a little bit annoying to some of your clients, because they’re going to find you. They’re gonna find you. Second, a wise wise beyond your years at say, 30 years old, right? And they’ll be coming to you. And they’re 40 and 50. And they’re going to be going well. Why are you depressed man, and they’ll be going, I don’t know, you know, life’s not what I thought it would be.

    Bill 19:29

    But they may not have had a serious physical condition or issue or any of that might just be regular life that’s getting them down and the fact that they’re gone, that they haven’t gone and pursued their dreams and haven’t got a purpose or something like that. And and then you’re going to have to gently tell them that there’s nothing wrong with them that they’re capable of doing anything that want to do even at 40 or 50 pounds.

    Bill 19:55

    And that once upon a time you overcome at 19 you overcome this mess have health issues and they’ve got no excuse and they’re gonna go, wow, what do I do now? Well just move forward and find a way to overcome it. I like your idea, you seem to be a person who focuses on solutions rather than problems. And I suppose you need to focus on the problem a little bit because you need to be aware that there’s something you need to rectify.

    Tristan Gibson 20:29

    Yeah, so the thing with that is, I wouldn’t say focus on the problem, I would say, analyze the problem or analyze the situation, that way you can come up with a little game plan to I don’t want to say fix it, but overcome it, you know, like I say, overcome very specifically, because I’m not gonna say I fixed the depression or anxiety that I had because I still get days from get a little down.

    Tristan Gibson 20:54

    However, I know how to bring myself back about, you know, that’s not completely fixable, in my opinion, unless you just sever whatever connection it is in your brain and become complete, whatever, lack of empathy for people or something, you know.

    Bill 21:12

    And it’s important that you feel things because it’s cute, it’s a cue for something, you need to do something about it. Yeah.

    Tristan Gibson 21:20

    I ran from my thoughts, or those thoughts, and those feelings for two years, I used alcohol, video games, sex, certain websites, you know, habitually, you know, if I wasn’t doing what I was doing, you know, and I was constantly distracting myself. And I was digging that hole deeper, you know, I was, I had reached a point to where I was, like, I am so miserable. I, I’m going to bring myself out, you know, and I had almost let it get to, some, I get a little emotional talking about this part.

    Tristan Gibson 22:05

    But the only time that I became suicidal in my life when I had genuine suicidal thoughts and wanted to take myself off this earth, was when I was on antidepressants. And I know that there are a lot of people out there who have success, and the antidepressants work for them. That’s completely fine. You know, you do whatever works for you, of course, however, I did not like wanting to take myself, officer, you know, I was so scared. One that I would leave my family, and my little sister and my little brother, too.

    Tristan Gibson 22:43

    I wasn’t sure where I was going to go. You know, at that point, I went to a Christian college, and they pushed me completely away from religion and God. And I was, I did not want to end up somewhere I didn’t like, you know. So I laid it all out on the line forgotten, you know, God, the universe, whatever you want to call it. What helped me know that I have a purpose after going through everything, because I hated myself for years, for it helps me know that I have a purpose was hearing that voice talk to me and say, everything happens for a reason.

    Tristan Gibson 23:34

    And ever since that day, I have been I, I kind of neglected it at first. And for a while when I was just tracking myself. And then I fully embodied it. And I started analyzing why everything happened in my life. And what I learned from everything, what I could learn from everything, you know, and ever since I fully accepted it and embodied that saying, my life has been so much better.

    Tristan Gibson 24:06

    You know, I want to say it’s a majority of your life is perspective, how you view things that happen to you? No, because that’s within your control. You can’t control what happens to you all the time. You can’t control whether you learn from it, whether you react to it, you know?

    Brain stem stroke recovery and personal growth

    Bill 24:29

    It’s how you respond that counts for sure. And then, and then what you do is if you celebrate the wins, and you pay attention to those, then you’ll start to get the momentum behind noticing more and more wins and the wins need to be little wins as well. I woke up for the first time and I slept well. Had a great weekend. I slept well, and I’ll sleep well again. Hopefully in the next week. I’ll sleep well one more time.

    Bill 25:01

    That’s it, you know, that’s a win. And then you just keep adding to that. And you might say, well, I picked up a bag of groceries on my own one bag, it was half a bag, but it was a bag. And that’s a win.

    Tristan Gibson 25:16

    Whatever you did before, you couldn’t even pick up the half bag. That’s it. That’s it. It’s just a small baby step.

    Bill 25:24

    Yeah, it’s just about empowering yourself and encouraging yourself and treating yourself as if you would, it was one of your best friends that was going through the struggle, and you wanted to encourage them, and let them know that they are overcoming this and they are going to be able to solve some problems, and they’re going to be able to have some recovery and improve. And all the things that your view would encourage your friend about is the McCanns.

    Tristan Gibson 26:02

    Friend. Yeah. And my grandparents both had a stroke. Have a baby sister. So one way that I like to remind them that their body is relearning how to work is I’ll tell them, how would you talk to Kindle in this situation? I was unlike, would you get mad at Kindle for dropping the glass or dropping the ball or whatever? I know. Okay. Think of your side as a child, learning how to work.

    Tristan Gibson 26:33

    You know, that’s basically what it is. That’s what helps me accept and recover from the stroke and all that a lot faster than the doctor said I would was I stopped finding it. I accepted it. And I treated it like it was my little sibling, you know? Yeah.

    Bill 26:51

    So what did they say to the doctors, how did they think you were going to move forward?

    Tristan Gibson 26:56

    So as far as the best I can remember, I was told that I wouldn’t be fully functional and society wouldn’t be able to necessarily participate. Because at that point, the hospital, I look at videos and pictures of myself in the hospital and I tear up almost every time. I was a zombie. If that would work. I was responsive. I thought my body was working. But my mind wasn’t, you know, I don’t remember much of anything at all, in the hospital, maybe one or two things. Other than that, that was just my bodywork.

    Tristan Gibson 27:44

    You know, I was out in that dark abyss. My body was doing whatever it was in the hospital, you know. And I was released. I went to the hospital the second time in mid-September, I was released beginning of November, and I started becoming conscious. My first memory was Christmas of that year, and then started becoming conscious in mid-January from all of the I guess the combination of the surgeries and the medications they had me on, you know. But yeah.

    Bill 28:21

    So when you when you say conscious? Explain that. Because I know I think I know what you mean, and mini-stroke survivors might but were you kind of a haze? Were you in a way spaced out? How would you describe the part you were in before you started to become conscious?

    Tristan Gibson 28:43

    I don’t know how I would describe it. I wasn’t necessarily conscious in this space. I wasn’t aware that I was in that space until I started becoming conscious in this space, you know, it was more like at that point, I had no beginning. It’s like I was waiting to be put inside of the body, you know, I like to refer to who I am now as a different soul to enter this body. You know, because that’s how I feel, you know, going from having no beginning.

    Tristan Gibson 29:18

    Then appearing in this body, and having no memory, no recollection of who I am, who anybody is. And then all of a sudden having all those memories hit me with specific keywords. I’m not sure if you can relate to that. But it was weird. Like, every time somebody said a keyword, like somebody said something about a scar a month after I became conscious. And all of a sudden it just popped into my head.

    Tristan Gibson 29:44

    That’s why I was back in the hospital because scar tissue had built up around the end of my suit or into the tube, you know, and I had a whole wave of emotions like I cried after I remembered that because it was like a piece of me I came back with each piece that came back with key words, I was becoming I thought I was becoming red again. However, I was becoming me with red memories, you know, whose red, red is the athlete persona that lived my life for 20 years.

    Tristan Gibson 30:28

    Okay, I like to make that distinction because I look at that version of myself and who I am now as two completely different people, you know, that version of myself, was very reactive, had no control over his emotions, had no knowledge about health at all. Anything like that. After everything I’ve been through, I became very conscious of health, all aspects, mental, emotional, and physical, because I am working to become the best version of myself

    Tristan Gibson 31:05

    So that I can pass on those traits and knowledge to my future kids, and break a bunch of generational curses that may not necessarily be in my family. But in society as a whole, you know.

    Personal growth and self-improvement


    Bill 31:21
    That’s a pretty cool, cool thing, man. I love that. That’s a pretty good mission statement. , the thing I got out of that, amongst other things was that your version one, and version two are very separate and distinct. That’s kind of how it is for me too. And a lot of stroke survivors talk about their version two, this is version two, or this is my new life, or this is me after the stroke there’s a separation. And they do go for a better version of themselves, or an upgraded version of themselves, or an enhanced version, or whatever the word is.

    Bill 32:05

    But for me, I use the word better version of myself. And it’s a constant. It’s a constant journey to improve everyday day to just find ways to improve. And it’s a successful journey, it’s just a very, it’s a big responsibility. Because when you take, when you take the step to say, I’m going to become a better version of myself, you start noticing all the things you need to fix. And then there’s so many of them, you have to get good at going, Oh, I’m going to fix this one.

    Bill 32:42

    Because if I fix this one, this one is going to sort out all these other little peripheral ones. But it’s a big job because you’re forever working on improving. I’m in therapy once a month. I mean, that’s psychology, right? A psychologist once a month, I’m forever online researching and reading and discovering, I’m always trying to dial in my nutrition. Always trying to be a better podcaster and improve my sound quality, and what I put out in the world so that people can consume it. And it’s positive, and it’s supportive.

    Bill 33:29

    And it’s not junk consumption. Because, you know, what we consume becomes us. So, I hear you, but it’s a big task to be the person who’s going to become a better version of themselves. And I think it’s okay, that it’s a big task because it’s life’s work. And then you’ve forever got something to do. And it’s never going to make you bored.

    Bill 33:59

    And you’re never going to have space for unnecessary thoughts that are going to persevere and be there for a long, long time they get replaced, because there’s no space for that because we’re working on improving. So how can you those those thoughts can’t proliferate? So my thing is, I love your approach.

    Tristan Gibson 34:22

    Well, thank you. And I’ve got a couple of things on what you just said, which was amazing. So one, this is extremely difficult work. And if it was easy, then everybody would be doing it. You know, there’s a phrase out there and I can’t remember exactly what it is, but my spin on it is the most fulfilling tat or a most fulfilling road is the one less traveled. You know.

    Tristan Gibson 34:55

    I forget what the old saying is or whatever. But um, yeah. And then when you’re focused on becoming the best version of yourself, you lose a lot of people in your life. Yes, it was. And that was extremely hard for me to accept, you know, when I finally accepted that, I was like, okay, cool, you know, I’m serving what’s best for me. They’re serving what’s best for them, that no longer lines. So, you know, it was easier for me to pursue my goal.

    Bill 35:36

    Stops a lot of people from change, though. How does it? How did you overcome that, that’s an issue that I find, and I’m still finding that. So my circle has decreased in size, and it keeps decreasing and it keeps decreasing. And it’s frustrating and challenging. And I’m not doing anything to make my interaction with you feel strange. I’m just just, I’m just improving me, I’m not making you improve anything or telling you to do anything.

    Bill 36:07

    I like you the way you are. I love you the way you probably do that, but I turn up and people. It’s kind of like this is not the most appropriate way. But it’s kind of like our repel them, or push them away or something like that. It’s really strange.

    Tristan Gibson 36:26

    I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t say that you repel them. I do think that I don’t want to say this to everybody. Let me be careful about how we’re doing this. So I think we get intimidated by the people that we think are on a mission, you know, whether that’s to improve ourselves, or whatever else, you know. And something I noticed, or I think I noticed at least was when I fully committed to improving myself.

    Tristan Gibson 37:02

    A lot of people stopped talking to me, you know, like, they’ll check and check up on me every once in a while. And that’s cool. Like, I still consider them friends. I just think that after the surgeries after the stroke and all that. Like I said, I became a different person. And I was already pushing my friends away because I thought I was the same. And I was trying to act how read did.

    Tristan Gibson overcoming limiting beliefs

    Tristan Gibson 37:30

    However, I was way over the top, you know, I was trying to be someone I wasn’t. And I was pushing away all the people that loved and cared for me. And that was a big motivator and why I started like finding who I am, you know. And it became a lot easier when I found this one men’s community, which is now open to everybody. It’s a hold-the-crew by Taylor Morgan. And I have that group has helped me tremendously. And my journey to improve myself is that of an online community. Yeah, so it’s a telegram community.

    Tristan Gibson 38:12

    So if you find his Instagram, it’s Captain, I think it’s Captain underscore Taylor underscore Morgan, or something like that. Let me look real quick. Yeah, that’s that’s a group of people. Got a fabulous beard. Let’s see. Yes, Captain underscores Taylor underscores Morgan. Right. His community is extremely helpful and extremely knowledgeable. And it has recently opened up to everybody. Right.

    Bill 38:53

    Fair enough. So that kind of gives you some Is it some guidance gives you some.

    Tristan Gibson 39:04

    Gave me it gave me a brotherhood that I could feel a part of because I felt alone on this journey. And once I found a group, a community that was like, I know where you’ve been or where you are, I can guide you through this. I was like, okay, so they are truly supportive. And they’ll also hold you accountable. Which is amazing. Yeah.

    Bill 39:38

    The one red flag for me when I look at groups like this, is that these guys get put on a pedestal and very early on in my journey to kind of be a better version of myself. I got I got caught up With the Tony Robbins crowd, not in a bad way, Tony Robbins is one of the biggest motivational. Oh, yeah, superhero, wow rah kind of guy. And he has a massive, massive billion-dollar business about trying to improve people, you know.

    Bill 40:25

    He came through the early 80s, where he was considered the the guy who could fix anything, transform anything, remove fears, from people, all that kind of stuff. And he’s good at what he does. And he’s written a couple of books but he’s best known for his massive stadium-sized four-day courses or events where you do a whole bunch of transformational stuff. And then you can sign up and go through a whole bunch of other stuff. And I didn’t go that much further.

    Bill 41:04

    But I was very interested in listening to his back his cassette tapes, his CDs, and his videos. And it was all about language and about how you go about paying attention to the things that you’re doing, that are getting in the way of your own, of your journey that you’re not noticing. And, you know, he’s studied through the NLP crowd he came through as a neurolinguistic programmer and all this kind of stuff.

    Bill 41:35

    So it’s cool. But then he did some things that burst my bubble about him. And I felt like it was just a, just the kind of shame. But it wasn’t a shame, it was just that I had him on such a pedestal, and I was only 25 or 26, or something like that. I had him on such a pedestal that when he was shown to me to be human, I took it the wrong way. I got offended and upset and thought that the whole thing was just a way to grab money, which it was.

    Bill 42:14

    There’s a portion of that to monetize. There’s no, no, absolutely no issue with that. But I was, it took a while for me to regroup and to find my bearings. And to give this guy a little bit of leniency a little bit of a break and to say, Hey, I think what I did was I must have embodied that as part of my identity more than was appropriate. And then, and then it was a jolt to my identity, to be able to see this guy as being human and then adjust.

    Bill 42:50

    And I did, and I know this now I can explain it now. But I didn’t know it then. But it was really hard. So I noticed that this guy is here. He looks superhuman. He looks like a Viking almost.

    Tristan Gibson 43:04

    And he’s got he looks like a. Yeah, it looks like a badass pirate.

    Bill 43:09

    Can you talk to a good-looking liver king? You know, like.

    Tristan Gibson 43:14

    He’s going to like that one. No. So I think what you were just like the phrase that popped in my head when you were explaining your story was never meet your heroes. Right? It sounded like he had become your hero, right? Yes. But in this community. It’s an active community where just about everyone’s active, right? And you’re talking to each other.

    Tristan Gibson 43:39

    So you’re already seeing the human aspects of the people that are guiding you through it, you’re seeing the human aspects of everybody else, you know, and that is something that helped my journey. Because I wasn’t putting them on a pedestal. I was like, okay, they understand where I’m at. They’re helping me get through it. You know?

    Bill 44:01

    I hear what you’re saying it’s more interactive, whereas I got to interact with Tony Robbins once, which was at a fire walk. So on day, two of his big four-day event, you do a fire walk, they set up the fire during the day. And then at night, everyone lines up, and I’m talking to 1000s of people lined up and yeah, walked on this hot coals. And that was the real big moment in my life that sort of shifted in my head when I walked along the hot coals. And I know technically there’s supposed to be a way that most people can get it done.

    Bill 44:36

    But my belief system wasn’t that I could do it. And when I did do it, I didn’t get burned. There was a line in the sand kind of moment. They it was like if you did that, which is supposed to be completely well, you’re not supposed to walk on hot coals. Yeah, any length of distance. And if you’re able to do that, and it didn’t affect you or change your life negatively, or damage you or hurt you, then you must be able to be capable of other things.

    Bill 45:12

    Now, I wasn’t anywhere near my stroke journey yet, but I was probably 10 away 10 years away from my structure in it. But what that did was, that gave me something to reflect on that I had achieved in the past that was massively beyond Bill’s capability. And you can see how you are then. And then at the end of that line was Tony Robbins, and I shook his hand. And then you can see how, in a moment of such amazing achievement like the real huge moment in my life, I’ve got it outside, and there’s this guy there, and I’m giving him all the credit for doing it.

    Bill 45:52

    And I’m doing well, it was because of him. It was because he, now he’s not the person that created that for me, he’s made the platform available. He didn’t make me walk. I walked. I achieved that was my achievement. But I outsourced it to him thinking that I wasn’t capable of that he must have done it for me. And then when he turned out to be a human, and he wasn’t my hero anymore, it was like, yeah, it was a real letdown.

    Bill 46:22

    And I had to reassess and try and work my way around overcoming that. So I get what you’re saying, as you guys have more regular interactions.

    Dealing with the challenges of Brain Stem Stroke Recovery


    Tristan Gibson 46:34
    So, therefore, you get the human side of the person. Oh, yeah. And I want to add something, I want to emphasize what you were saying. So walking on the hot coals, and doing something that you thought was impossible, or shouldn’t be done. Something that was massively, massively, massively important, and my journey to overcome depression, and anxiety and become the best version of myself.

    Tristan Gibson 47:08

    I started challenging myself, taking cold showers what I started with, you know, doing workouts which, after the stroke, I’m not sure if you know, anybody that could teach this, my left side has not gained muscle that I’ve noticed, like, no matter how much I workout, my right side will, on the side won’t, will get back to that. Like I was saying, challenging myself, you know, once I realized that, the reason why, or one of the reasons why I felt so depressed and anxious, was because my life was easy.

    Tristan Gibson 47:44

    You know, I had nothing to do nothing to think about other than the depression and anxiety. And when I started challenging myself, it, really, really started showing me that I can overcome my initial feeling of this. What else can I overcome? You know, and I took my first ice bath in May of this year, 2023. And holy crap. The adrenaline rush that I got after that. It was amazing.

    Tristan Gibson 48:23

    It was with Taylor Morgan. I was at one of his immersions. And that was the most challenging and the most amazing feeling I’ve ever had. Because ice baths, you’re like, who would sit there in a bath of cold water, who would sit there in a bath surrounded by ice? And then you do it. And you’re like, I’m that MF er, that will sit in a bath and ice. You know, I did that. And, okay, that showed me that I could overcome.

    Bill 48:59

    You know, you’ve just done a huge thing for me. So I just realized that what I was, because I’ve been thinking about ice baths for years. And what I’ve done is I’ve created the same mystery and this is not what Bill does around an ice bath. And just now when we talked about that, the firewalk and I overcome that and that bill doesn’t do that sort of stuff. Well, that’s what I’ve done with the ice bath I’ve put the ice bath in this category that Bill doesn’t do.

    Bill 49:32

    And the ice is cold. But the time that you sit in there can’t burn your skin, it can damage your skin and there’s less potential for harm in kidney cancer on the hotspot. Then there is walking on fire. So I think you might have helped me just overcome and realize that I’ve created this thing around An ice bath that and cold. That was not necessarily true, sir.

    Tristan Gibson 50:08

    And I will add something to that. The very first ice baths I took, I fought the feeling right. I did not like the feeling. I got in and I got out for the author. Once I learned to accept the feeling of cold water all around me that was encompassing my body, and realized there was no point in fighting it just releasing and surrendering to that feeling. They almost become no, not almost, they do become therapeutic.

    Tristan Gibson 50:41

    Yeah. Once you learn to accept that feeling, because hot and cold, give the same sensation in different ways, you know, or at least how I perceive it. And you can surrender to the feeling of warmth. So once you learn to surrender the feeling of cold. It’s very therapeutic. Yeah.

    Bill 51:05

    So then let’s talk about the elephant in the room. You’re sitting by what now? I think I’ve realized there is a sauna.

    Tristan Gibson 51:20

    No, this is my room.

    Bill 51:23

    All right. Good. Instead of sauna. I thought if it was that was going to be a first for this podcast in your room. And you are sitting with what looks like a red filter.

    Tristan Gibson 51:37

    Oh, yeah, it looks like it.

    Bill 51:38

    But it’s not a red filter. Tell me about what you’re doing in your room and what’s going on your,

    Tristan Gibson 51:43

    Oh, first off, I am very, very broke. I’m very brokering and saying stay with my grandparents right now. I have this red light in my room because I learned back in May. That red light can help support circadian rhythm, health, and function and your circadian rhythm is your internal clock your sleep cycle, you know. And having this on at night isn’t nearly as detrimental to your sleep health and all that as having a fluorescent or LED light on?

    Tristan Gibson 52:22

    Yeah, because it’s a calmer wavelength. And it’s Oh, yeah, I can give you a couple of Instagram accounts to follow and some things to look up to find more information on it the information slipping my mind.

    Bill 52:39

    But um, yeah, it’s kind of the artificial way to mimic the campfire.

    Tristan Gibson 52:46

    Yes, that’s perfect. That’s a perfect explanation. Yes. And it’s, I’ve heard it’s even even more beneficial if you have it below. eye level. Because it’s like mimicking the sun setting. Yeah. However, I don’t have anything that can put it below eye level.

    Self-care and mindfulness

    Bill 53:06

    Yeah, he’s just you just need a lamp. One of the lamps looks like I’ve got in the background here. That’s just just there. Oh, yeah. I’ve got so at night, in my house, if we’re sitting down watching TV or whatever it is that lights above my head go off. And they are warm lights, there’s still warm lights, but they’re led downlights, we call them here. And the lamp comes on. I’ve got it on the timer. So as soon as it kicks into sunset the warm lights in the lamp switch on. They’re not read like this that I’d have read my wife wouldn’t be able to Yeah.

    Bill 54:00

    And outside of our little dining lounge and kitchen area, there’s we’ve got six glass doors, and you can see the courtyard. And in the courtyard, I’ve set up what they call fairy lights typically. But they have a similar warm, red glow red hue. And they come on at sunset whenever sunset happens throughout the year. And then they switch off a quarter past a quarter to 11 at night automatically and they just wrote they’re on and off every day. And it’s our signal to switch off the lights above the head. And that’s awesome.

    Bill 54:47

    Yeah, and it makes such a massive difference because it helps to decrease the overstimulation in my head with bright lights. They are just absolutely fluorescent lights and They just made terrible or can’t cope with them. So what’s interesting is when I just finished by saying that when the overhead lights stopped working at one stage, it was a noticeable difference to the way I felt about being able to see them outside the glass.

    Bill 55:21

    It was something that the darkness outside the glass kind of wasn’t as comfortable. As I was seeing those warm orange glowing lamps before I went to bed, it was interesting.

    Tristan Gibson 55:42

    It’s very crazy how something is, well, what we perceive as small in our lives, such as light and our lights, surroundings, and all that plays an effect on our health. You know, it’s astounding. I was gonna say something, I forgot what you said, that popped into my head. Anyway, it will just.

    Bill 56:10

    I interrupt myself if it comes back. So we’ve kind of referred to the Ranga Tang a little bit now. I think you’re an awesome play on words here for you. Because you’re a ginger.

    Tristan Gibson 56:24

    Alright, let me let me interrupt you there. So I’m a ginger. And I am what I call a full-blooded ninja. Right? I have blood running through Yeah, I have blood running through almost every follicle a hair on my body, right? You know, like most of the hair, maybe like 10 strands, except maybe 10 strands is red. So that’s why I call myself I’ve been calling myself an orangutan for years. But I went through the Taylor mortgage program, captains lifestyle, and became the captain of Mountain Life. So now I am Captain Ranga. Tang. And I picked this one because it’s funny. It’s memorable, too.

    Tristan Gibson 57:02

    Nobody else in the world is using it. It’s very unique. You know, like I said, nobody else in the world was using it. And the program that I’m creating is called the Ranga Tang way of teaching people the way that I overcame depression and anxiety. Yes.

    Bill 57:19

    All right. Now it’s it’s huge, your program is huge, right? Because you have a lot of steps. We won’t talk about all of them. But basically, the steps are words that have emerged from the letters of the orangutangs away, okay, so that is not part of it, it’s just orangutangs away. And at the o r a n GUTAN. Their words are associated with that. And then word way, there are also words associated with it. So pick out of the words, and I’ll provide, some images on the show notes of this so that people watching and listening who are curious, can go and have a bit of a look.

    Bill 58:07

    Also, all the links will be there. But we’ll put all your links to the show notes. So give me a few of the words that you want to kind of share or tell us about that came out of those letters of the arena. teanaway.

    Tristan Gibson 58:25

    Yeah, so first, I just want to say it was extremely difficult coming up with words that kind of work with all this. My friend, Carolyn Caroline, is sorry. She’s gonna get mad at that. But, Caroline, I met her through a mutual friend. She’s had a TBI, and I sent her your podcast and was like, you know, this is awesome. And so maybe she’ll hit you up to talk. Maybe look up. However, she helped me come up with this. And all of them. Can I go through the whole list?

    Bill 59:01

    Yeah, go through more and then just pick out a couple. So we could chat a little bit deeper for the next time.

    Tristan Gibson 59:06

    Arang is saying way right? There’s no G and Ranga Tang? I don’t know why it’s pronounced with a G but oh, sorry.

    Bill 59:14

    At the end during a tank, it’s not a J at the end.

    Tristan Gibson 59:17

    There is no No Yeah, well. Learning a lot of stuff on this, dude. Yeah, it’s weird. But it’s not it doesn’t have a G 49.

    Bill 59:33

    Years just.

    Overcoming challenges and optimizing life after a stroke

    Tristan Gibson 59:37

    Yeah, it’s crazy man. But, so rank and sang rank is Hanway How about that? Oh, outside. Our rest accepts and conforms to G grounds. You understand? T transform, affirmations, and never W welcome. Hey, acquire Why you? Okay.

    Bill 1:00:02

    I think I know which ones I want to talk about. Okay. Okay, in Nonconformist, what’s that all about?

    Tristan Gibson 1:00:10

    So society, the way I view it’s after doing a lot of deep inner work, and I like analyzing how I think and why I think the way I think and how I perceive others to think and why they think what they think, non conform, my version of it is don’t conform to the idea that you can’t overcome whatever you’re going through right? Now, there might be some things that are impossible for you to overcome.

    Tristan Gibson 1:00:43

    But the fact that you think that you can’t overcome, it makes it a hell of a lot harder for anything, right? Depression, anxiety, a lot of people think it’s a mental illness. And if they give it that title, then it makes them feel like it’s impossible to overcome it, you know? So conformed to the idea that you can’t overcome whatever you have. Right. What’s the next one?

    Bill 1:01:09

    The next one I like is welcome.

    Tristan Gibson 1:01:14

    Welcome, James. Welcome. better times?

    Bill 1:01:21

    Yeah, yeah. The good ones are like the nonconforming, because if you did come, particularly if you particularly did conform, in the early days to what the doctors said, you might have proved them right, simply because they said.

    Tristan Gibson 1:01:39

    Exactly. And yeah, yeah, you’re exactly right on that.

    Bill 1:01:44

    Yeah. And welcome change is, change is probably inevitable. And the thing that’s going to be happening the most, is more. It’s more definite than taxes because some people can find ways to avoid taxes, but you can’t avoid change.

    Tristan Gibson 1:02:05

    So I want to point something out. So you said it’s probably inevitable to change the way I see it, you’re going to change whether you know it or not. You change to your new job, your life, your new girlfriend, your wife, your new kids, whatever, something new changes with each of those new steps. And after having a very traumatic experience, like going through a stroke, or having a bunch of surgeries, or whatever, you’re going to change whether that change is positive or not, please, it depends on you.

    Tristan Gibson 1:02:44

    And I believe after going through something as dramatic and profound and life-changing as what we have. I think that if you take control of what changes, you can completely change, not just your life, but the lives of people around you, and the lives of your future family for the better. Because if you just let change happen, it could be bad. Or you could perceive it as bad. But if you go out and chase change and challenge yourself, you can make whatever change you want. You know.

    Bill 1:03:24

    What’s good about this is a good question to ask around change. Change is thrust upon you something happens. And it seems like it might not be pleasant or it’s difficult or whatever. And then if you ask the question, like, what could be good about this? Or what? What might come from this that I didn’t expect that’s going to be beneficial? Yeah, that does help to make change a little bit gentler. It makes it possible for you to say, possibilities of change. Yeah.

    Tristan Gibson 1:03:56

    So, when I was reacting to this change, I was always asking, Why me? Why did I have to go through this? Why couldn’t everything be like everybody else? Once I changed my mindset, it was like, What can I learn from this? How can I adjust? How can I improve? You know? Because the time that I wanted to go back to my old life, and all that was the time that I suffered.

    Tristan Gibson 1:04:26

    I suffered so bad the time ever since I accepted the change and have capitalized on finding things that I enjoy doing now. And taking control of the direction that I go with whatever changes. I have been learning to thrive, you know. And it’s a process and it’s not easy. Yeah.

    Bill 1:04:55

    So what’s the hardest thing about the stroke journey? For you what was the hardest thing?

    Tristan Gibson 1:05:05

    So I recovered extremely fast. According to all the doctors and all that, um, I attribute that to the fact that my consciousness was in a different place than my body, you know, my body was just going through the motions. So my mind wasn’t holding me back. The most, thing that I’m still struggling with that I frustrating myself, the most is my left side, either not getting muscle at all, muscle at all, or is getting muscle at a significantly slower rate than my right side. Right.

    Tristan Gibson 1:05:47

    So I lived a very self-destructive lifestyle for two and a half years. And I had tanked my testosterone levels. And I developed a little bit of breast tissue on my side. And when I changed my diet, stopped eating all the processed stuff that they sell here in America and went to a whole food diet, all organic and stuff like that. I lost 30 pounds in three months. When I lost that weight, I noticed the breast tissue.

    Tristan Gibson 1:06:23

    And ever since I’ve been, I used to beat myself up over it. Now I see it as a challenge, along with, you know, gaining muscle on the left side to overcome, you know, and I am slowly optimizing my life. The biggest thing that I’m still working to optimize is my sleep.

    Bill 1:06:49

    It’s such a superpower to sleep.

    Tristan Gibson 1:06:53

    Yeah, they keep it extremely hot in here. Yeah, I have three fans in here, man.

    Bill 1:07:03

    Fair enough. What? What has struck taught you?

    Tristan Gibson 1:07:08

    Stroke has taught me that. With the right mindset, you can overcome anything that happens to you.

    Tristan Gibson 1:07:17

    I’ve met plenty of people who have gone through something traumatic and they’re in a wheelchair, you can’t use your legs. And they’re still the most positive people in the world. And I’ve had very deep conversations about very hard topics with them. And the thing that I’ve learned from a lot of those people that are still positive, at least, is that their mindset around it was, yeah, I went through this.

    Tristan Gibson 1:07:48

    And I made it out instead of Yeah, I went through this, but I made it out, right? So they’re grateful to be alive to be still with their family and friends and stuff like that. And they’re grateful to make an impact on people, just like you and I are, you know, and I forgot the question.

    Bill 1:08:12

    Yeah, that’s what has it taught you what a stroking toy sounds like it’s gonna

    Tristan Gibson 1:08:16

    It’s taught me that there’s so much more to life than what we tell ourselves, you know, what we identify with. It could change tomorrow. So being able to embrace change is probably the biggest thing that has taught me. Yeah, embrace change, don’t always adhere to the idea of who you are, you know, something could change it.

    Coping with stroke and brain hemorrhages

    Bill 1:08:41

    Yeah. Some young person that is coming along with this post, have not quite moved beyond the early stages of stroke. Yet, and maybe some older person as well, someone who’s 49 or older, who cares? I don’t know why I made it a just what do you want to what do you want to tell them? What, how do you want to kind of advise them to go forward? If I were looking for a little bit of gym?

    Tristan Gibson 1:09:16

    I’ll just, I’ll speak like I’m talking to my old so right. You might be thinking that this is some bogus saying that everything happens for a reason. I know I did for years. However, once you fully embrace and accept what has happened, you will soon realize that you can make such a profound impact on people’s lives. And the longer I’m alive after the stroke after all those surgeries become grateful for what I went through.

    Tristan Gibson 1:09:58

    You know, and I know, Tristan from three years ago is looking at me and like, why are you saying that? You know what, why the hell are you saying that Don’t be stupid. Just I don’t even want you to trust me, I want you to try. At least try accepting that everything happens for a reason. And start thinking of ways that you could both help yourself and help others.

    Bill 1:10:32

    Yeah, and it’s important to the fact that people go down the path of sort of living that everything happens for a reason, lifestyle is then applying a reason that makes it worthwhile. Usually helping other people creates. Well, it creates the possibility that what you went through was worth going through, because now you’re impacting positively somebody else’s life. So the reason that you apply to it is important, and you are the person who gets to apply the reason, that your setback occurred or your health issue occurred, or whatever it was.

    Tristan Gibson 1:11:17

    And that reason could be anything in the world. Yeah, it’s whatever feels whatever you most aligned with my opinion.

    Bill 1:11:25

    Yeah. It happened to me so that I could be a better father. It happened to me so that I could be a better husband. It happened to me, so I could be a better bill. I could stop living the life that I was living previously because it was unsustainable. It wasn’t fun. It wasn’t this. And you could just come up with 1000 million reasons. Why? What happened to you? Oh, yeah. And one of the reasons it didn’t happen to you is because you’re being punished by God. That’s yeah. And that’s yes. It did not happen for that reason. Yeah.

    Tristan Gibson 1:12:02

    That’s what I that’s the mindset I had for like, six months after this surgery and stroke. I thought I was being punished for something. And I was like, Okay, I hate myself. Why don’t I just take myself off this world off this planet? Hmm. When that voice in my head was okay, maybe I’m not being punished, you know? Yeah. But um, yeah, just start searching. What helped me start this journey was analyzing my old life the life before, and finding the places where I didn’t like the person I was, you know, for me, it was, I was very emotionally reactive.

    Tristan Gibson 1:12:44

    I lied a lot. I played a lot of video games, I distracted myself. I was not present with anyone or anything. I was just going through the motions. And I didn’t like that part of my old self. So I decided to change it. Yep. That’s the best thing. In my opinion. That’s the best thing you can do in this situation. That’s fair advice.

    Bill 1:13:15

    Tristan, thanks for reaching out. And I appreciate chatting with you. Thanks for being the first person to come to me live via your red light therapy room.

    Tristan Gibson 1:13:28

    Thank you, sir. Thank you for holding this podcast and community for people like yourself and myself. Who can give and receive advice that has helped us along the way? Thank you.

    Bill 1:13:44

    Absolutely. My pleasure. Just before we go, why don’t you share with people where they could find you online then I’ll also make sure I link all of those things to the show notes.

    Tristan Gibson 1:13:57

    So y’all are probably gonna like this one. It’s very unique. It’s Captain_Orangutan on TikTok and Instagram. My website is Theorangutanway.com it’s still under work. We posted it just to see what it looked like and get advice from others. It will be going through some more changes, got some more things to add to it. And I’m working on that program.

    Tristan Gibson 1:14:27

    Full disclosure, I don’t have a degree or a certification and whatever. I’m helping people with experience, you know, so I was told that I can’t tell people how this is this is how they fix it. But this is how I fix it. You know?

    Bill 1:14:43

    Yeah, you share a story that’s odd and have inaccurate qualifications either me other than three brain hemorrhages and brain surgery and learning how to walk again.

    Tristan Gibson 1:14:52

    So yeah, basically saying.

    Bill 1:14:56

    I think I’m pretty qualified. Oh, absolutely. I am not uncomfortable sharing, there is a disclaimer at the end of every one of my podcast episodes. Don’t take anything I say seriously. seek out advice from your medical professionals do all of that kind of stuff.

    Bill 1:15:13

    We are different just sharing experiences, stories, and things that have worked for us. And if you’re curious, what we’re kind of trying to do is we’re just trying to inspire people to get curious about what might work for them. And it’s up to them.

    Bill 1:15:28

    And it’s as simple as that. What works for me might work for you and what doesn’t work for you might not work for me. So it’s all good. My thanks for being on the podcast. I appreciate it.

    Tristan Gibson 1:15:39

    Thank you for having me, Bill.

    Bill 1:15:41

    Well, thanks for joining us on today’s episode. Remember, grab a copy of chapter one of the book The Unexpected Way that a Stroke Became the Best Thing That Happened. Just visit recoveryafterstroke.com/book.

    Bill 1:15:54

    Take a look around and discover what the book is all about. Click the Download Free Chapter button. As always, to learn more about my guests, including links to this social media and other pages, and to download a full transcript of the entire interview, please go to recoveryafterstroke.com/episodes Thank you to all those people who have already left the review.

    Bill 1:16:16

    It means the world to me, it does. It also helps other people looking for this type of content to find it more easily. So if you would like to leave a review, if you haven’t done so yet, go to iTunes and Spotify, and leave a five-star review. Leave a few comments about what the show means to you. It might just be the most amazing thing that you do for somebody else and me, but that might just make it possible for that particular interview to go to the right person who needs it.

    Bill 1:16:50

    If they’re feeling down about their stroke, about their recovery, about all the things that they have to navigate after a stroke. If you are watching on YouTube, comment below the video I love seeing people’s comments I respond to all of them who liked the episode and to get notifications of future episodes, subscribe to the show on the platform of your choice. Thank you again for being here and listening. I appreciate you see you on the next episode.

    Tristan Gibson 1:17:18

    Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals’ opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast are the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed all content on this website at any linked blog, podcast or video material controlled this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis.

    Tristan Gibson 1:17:48

    The content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice. The information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances, or health objectives. Do not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose treat, cure, or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional.

    Tristan Gibson 1:18:13

    Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional, your doctor, or your rehabilitation program based on our content if you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional if you are experiencing a health emergency or think you might be, call 000 if in Australia or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance or go to the nearest hospital emergency department medical information changes constantly.

    Tristan Gibson 1:18:39

    While we aim to provide current quality information in our content. We did not provide any guarantees and assume no legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, currency, or completeness of the content. If you choose to rely on any information within our content you do so solely at your own risk. We are careful with the links we provide however third-party links from our website are followed at your own risk and we are not responsible for any information you find there.

    The post Brain Stem At 20 Years Old | Tristan Gibson appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

    1 hr 20 min
  • Ischemic Stroke Recovery | Aimee Silverman

    Aimee Silverman is on the road to Ischemic Stroke Recovery after a blood clot formed in her head aged 49

    Highlights:

    01:44 Introduction

    03:02 Ischemic stroke recovery
    08:38 Stroke risks and prevention strategies
    13:05 Managing autoimmune condition and stroke recovery
    19:42 Prioritizing tasks and nutrition
    32:23 Managing fatigue and sensory overload
    38:23 Stroke recovery, family life, and independence
    44:01 Fall prevention and recovery strategies for stroke survivors
    50:04 Stroke recovery and rehabilitation strategies
    54:17 Adaptive fitness after a stroke
    1:01:05 Adaptive sports and overcoming challenges

    Transcript:

    Aimee Silverman 0:00

    And then I read the first chapter of your book about having a growth mindset. And so I’ve been thinking about that more like a growth mindset in a work environment, you think of what mistake did I make? And how can I learn from that and improve upon my performance?

    Aimee Silverman 0:15

    So growth mindset here for me in stroke recovery is thinking about what can I do to better the results of my recovery or make my recovery more productive, I guess. So I’ve been thinking a lot more about just thinking positive, celebrating the little wins, and having a little grace for myself. And also just thinking about changing habits like eating healthier, which I don’t eat very well.

    Intro 0:47

    This is the Recovery after Stroke podcast. With Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after stroke.

    Bill 1:00

    Hello, and welcome to the Recovery after Stroke podcast. The final touches on my book keep on coming. Last time it was, change a few words here, remove a line there. Now it’s upload problems. So we’re going to get there. Eventually, the book will be live but in the meantime, what I’d like to do is give away the first chapter of my book free.

    Bill 1:24

    The book is called The Unexpected Way The Stroke Became The Best Thing That Happened, and it shares 10 secrets from stroke survivors that will transform your life. Now if you go to recoveryafterstroke.com/book and fill out the form, you will receive the chapter of the book in your email a few moments later.

    Introduction

    Bill 1:44

    Now, this is episode 279. And my guest today is Aimee Silverman, who was 49 when she experienced an ischemic stroke while working at home during the lockdowns of the pandemic. If you are a stroke survivor with a story to share about your stroke experience, now is a perfect time to join me on the show.

    Bill 2:04

    The interviews are not scripted, you do not have to plan for them. All you need to do to qualify is be a stroke survivor who wants to share their story in the hope that it will help somebody else who’s going through something similar. If you are a researcher who wants to share the findings of a recent study or you are looking to recruit people into studies, you may also wish to reach out and be a guest on my show.

    Bill 2:27

    If you have a commercial product that you would like to promote, that is related to supporting stroke survivors to recover. There is also a path for you to join me on a sponsored episode of the show. Just go to recoveryafterstroke.com/contact, and fill out the form explaining briefly which category you belong to. And I will respond with more details about how we can connect via Zoom. Aimee Silverman, welcome to the podcast.

    Aimee Silverman 2:54

    Thank you, Bill. I’m very excited.

    Bill 2:56

    My pleasure. Thank you for being here. Tell me a little bit about what happened to you.

    Ischemic stroke recovery

    Aimee Silverman 3:02

    So about three years ago, in the middle of COVID, I had an ischemic stroke. And I was home at the time. And thankfully my husband noticed that there was something wrong with me because it was mid-morning and I was supposed to be working, I was working. And all of a sudden, I was typing an email and realized that I couldn’t move my left hand.

    Aimee Silverman 3:27

    So I went and got up from my desk, walked out to my den, and lay down on the couch. My husband came out, he was about ready to go play golf because it was a nice day. And he said, what’s wrong with you? Why are you lying down? Because again, it’s the middle morning, and I’m supposed to be working.

    Aimee Silverman 3:49

    And I said, you know, I’m just a little tired and disoriented. It’s just I feel a little weird. And I was slurring my words at the time. And I could tell I could hear myself slurring my words, but I couldn’t correct myself. And he said to me, what’s going on with you? Why are you slurring your words? Have you been drinking? I said, No, it’s the middle of the workday.

    Aimee Silverman 4:09

    And he said, well, something’s not right. And he called 911. He came back and he said, I just called 911. They’re gonna come. I think you’re having a stroke. And I said, a stroke. What are you talking about? I feel fine. I don’t feel anything. I just felt a little off and tired. And I said, Please, cancel the 911 call and go play golf I’ll see you in a little bit.

    Aimee Silverman 4:37

    So he said, no, I’m sure you’re having a stroke. And so he quickly went to his computer, Googled stroke symptoms, and came back and said, can you move your arms? And I couldn’t move my left arm. So what was interesting is I had gotten up from my desk after my hand stopped working, stopped typing on my laptop, and was able to make it to the couch.

    Aimee Silverman 5:05

    But at this point, I couldn’t move my arm. So the ambulance came, and the guys did they’re kind of, you know, What day is it? What’s your name? Where are you? All the normal questions and they say, can you smile? And can you lift your arm and this and that? And then I heard them call into the hospital, which is very close to my house thankfully.

    Aimee Silverman 5:34

    And they said we have a stroke patient here. And so all of a sudden, I was whisked away to the local hospital. They gave me the TPA drug because they figured out that it was a blockage in my brain. And from there, they flew me out, too. I live in the suburbs of Boston. So they flew me to the city to have an emergency thrombectomy to remove the clot or to blast the clot.

    Aimee Silverman 6:00

    And so I had that I was in the ICU for two weeks in Boston. And then I went to an inpatient rehab facility for six weeks before being released to go home. And then I had some home therapy. Now I’ve been in outpatient therapy for several years. So it changed my life. I was working, like I said, and it’s been heartbreaking for me to have to leave my role.

    Bill 6:30

    Were you working at home because of the lockdown?

    Aimee Silverman 6:34

    Yes.

    Bill 6:36

    That’s a blessing.

    Aimee Silverman 6:38

    Yeah, I think so. Although after the stroke, I didn’t see my parents for six weeks, because the hospital and the rehab, were very strict in letting people in. Like, I think I could only have two different visitors a day. And they could only stay for like 20 minutes. So my husband would come or my son would come in to see me when my daughter was at school. So she wasn’t close enough to come visit.

    Bill 7:07

    Yeah, so the lockdown perspective, though, was a blessing that you were working at home, and your husband was at home, right? And then as a result of that interaction, he’s onto it almost immediately by the sound of things.

    Aimee Silverman 7:26

    Yeah, so the nurse or the ER doctor who was working with me when I first got in there, and she gave me the TPA, she said, Oh, you’re so lucky, you’re here within the first hour of this starting so. And at one point, they had video, telemedicine, and other neurologists from Boston, who were also trying to assess me for what to do. And in the middle of the video, I was able, he was you know, doing that, again, the Raise your arms, wiggle your toes and all that. And I was able to raise my arms and he said, Oh, look, he’s able to move.

    Aimee Silverman 8:09

    And then all of a sudden, right after he said that, I guess I slumped over and I started stroking out again, I guess. And so that’s when they decided to move me to Boston to get surgery. Because the clot must have moved. Well must have moved when I got up when it initially happened. And I got up and was able to walk to my sofa. And then it moved again when I was on this video conference with the doctor’s surgeon.

    Stroke risks and prevention strategies

    Bill 8:37

    So did they work out the underlying cause of the color?

    Aimee Silverman 8:43

    What’s interesting in a short story is no I don’t have any high-risk factors. I’m not diabetic, I don’t have high blood pressure. I don’t have high cholesterol. And I was, you know, to me, stroke patients or survivors are usually people who are older and I don’t consider myself older. I mean, I’m 50-something at this point, but still, yeah, like I’m thinking 67-year-old people who have a lot of gray hair. I mean, I have some gray hair, but that’s more for my kids than anything else.

    Bill 9:19

    If gray hair is the judge of whether you’re old or not. And so I’m 30 years old, so who is out? Yeah. But that’s alright. I know what you mean, there is a perception that stroke is an ailment that happens to older people, we tend to see. I’m not sure if we see them more or they’re promoted more or they’re part of the campaigns to raise awareness. I’m not sure what it is. But it’s true. I had never known anyone young. Well, I was 37. So I had never known anyone who was anywhere younger, or near that age that had a stroke.

    Aimee Silverman 10:00

    Babies can have strokes. Yeah, no children can have strokes.

    Bill 10:04

    I mean, lots of people at every age group, and they’re givers and parents of people. I’ve interviewed people who have had a stroke in utero. I mean, it’s ridiculous. But for some reason, it’s not well known that it happens to people at every age. And then there seems to be this hole that people fall into when, where they kind of disappear out of society, and they’re missed, and they’re not seen as being stroke survivors.

    Bill 10:36

    At least that’s how it felt. For me, it has changed a fair bit, especially since podcasts and other communities have evolved. And also, so being people being able to self-publish, has been another way that awareness of younger stroke has kind of increased. So it’s been really interesting. But I, you’re not the only one who felt that way.

    Aimee Silverman 11:03

    Yeah, I mean, I didn’t know anything about strokes until unfortunately, this happened. I didn’t realize it was as high as one in four people will have a stroke. That’s a lot of people.

    Bill 11:16

    That is ridiculous.

    Aimee Silverman 11:19

    When so, you know, the doctors to go back to the cause? Yeah, the doctors did a bunch of tests, because again, I didn’t have any high-risk factors. And they think it may be an autoimmune condition where I had, where I have something called anti-phospholipid syndrome, which I think potentially causes clots. So now I’m on blood thinners to counteract hopefully, having another stroke, not so to prevent having a second stroke. Sorry, I was super anxious about that afterward.

    Aimee Silverman 11:55

    And actually, it wasn’t until I had spoken to you, or maybe read something that you wrote. That to help reassure someone that, you know, the way they try to prevent a second stroke is because the cause of mine was a blood clot, the blood thinners really kind of help. Keep that as a mitigating factor. So that doesn’t happen again, versus someone who let’s say, has a brain bleed? There’s nothing you can do at least I don’t think they’re I don’t know.

    Bill 12:31

    Yeah, well, with my brain blades, there wasn’t much that I could do to prevent the second and third one from happening. Although I did as much as I could, I still took responsibility for not causing another one. And that meant that I, you know, changed the way that I worked, I changed. You name it, everything like every stroke survivor changes. Yeah. And also my diet and my habits, and I meditated, and I did everything to try and help it heal. But this particular blood vessel in my brain didn’t want to be healing anytime soon.

    Managing autoimmune condition and stroke recovery

    Bill 13:05

    So it took nearly two and a half years to get to the point of surgery more than two and a half years. And in that time, it bled three times. And then the only way to stop the bleeding to resolve it was to remove it. And that’s why we went in. And that’s what the outcome is.

    Bill 13:26

    The idea was that you’re at greater risk of a fourth blade causing some major health problems as well as potentially a risk of harming other people, for example, if I was driving or doing anything like that, which I had been given permission to drive and a greater at lesser risk of complications from surgery. So when brain surgery has fewer complications as a risk factor, then it’s different. The thing to do is.

    Aimee Silverman 14:00

    Go, Sorry, my dogs whining at me, who wants dinner? It’s dinnertime. It’s amazing. They have this internal clock. Yeah.

    Bill 14:08

    They know exactly when it’s time to interrupt you. That’s all good. So yeah. So it’s interesting that I think you can do a lot to manage your state. And if you can manage your state, and then also take and make the most of modern medicine, then I think that’s a great thing. And if it helps ease, anxiety and keep things calm. I mean, that and at phospholipid syndrome, you know, there, there isn’t much to do about it. If you have an autoimmune condition.

    Bill 14:48

    There isn’t much that I know of that you can do to reverse it or stop it from cloning the blood. But blood thinners are extremely safe for the majority of people. And, and can make a massive difference in keeping people well and avoiding stroke. So it’s great that that’s a possibility for you. So has the antiphospholipid syndrome been diagnosed? Or? Or not? Exactly.

    Aimee Silverman 15:20

    Not exactly. So that’s the other thing with autoimmune conditions. So I was undiagnosed for another autoimmune condition for so long. But they seem to run like once you have one, you’re more likely to have another one. So there is a blood test, and it’s having come back. Like none of my doctors and I have a whole team of doctors now. None of them have said yes, it’s definitively that they’ve all said it’s probably that, but it could be other things. So I have a fairly complicated medical history.

    Aimee Silverman 15:56

    However I did have I do have an autoimmune condition, which they thought was lupus. And it took a long time to come to figure out what it is, which is undifferentiated connective tissue disorder. So you know, and they don’t know if that’s contributing to it, or just the fact that I have autoimmune issues in general. It’s crazy. I mean, science has come a long way in medicine, but I’m like a medical mystery. I feel like sometimes. Is it annoying? It’s, it’s troublesome because it makes me wonder like, what else is going to pop up?

    Aimee Silverman 16:35

    Because I’ve also I have a history of lymphoma. Which, you know, I’ve asked the doctors about that as well. And they’ve said, you know, we don’t know if lymphoma causes the autoimmune condition or vice versa. Is it the chicken or the egg? I’m not sure. So yeah, complicated medical history.

    Bill 16:55

    Yeah. Okay. So I can understand why that causes you to try and think about what might come but do you feel like you’re unprepared for something that might come? Or are you resigned to the fact that you’re just living the life? And this is life? And what the hell do we do other than try and live our best life?

    Aimee Silverman 17:15

    Great question. So at this point, I think I’m grateful to be here still. And, you know, living life as best as I can, not letting things hold me back. Like, I’m going to travel by car. And I keep thinking like, at this point, I got to do the things I can still do now. So I don’t miss out or so that I can experience these things that I’ve wanted to experience. So I mean, you can worry about anything, you can worry about being hit by a car, or tripping and falling and hitting your head at this point. I mean, there’s just so many things, you just gotta keep living and look forward.

    Aimee Silverman 17:59

    And actually, I’ve been part participating in a meditation group, which has been very helpful. And then also, like, I’ve been reading, I read one of your other guests, her book, and you read. So I just finished that book the other day, that was very good. And then I read the first chapter of your book about having a growth mindset. And so I’ve been thinking about that more like, growth mindset in a work environment, you think of, okay, well, how did I, you know, what mistake did I make? Make? And how can I learn from that and improve upon my performance, right?

    Aimee Silverman 18:40

    So a growth mindset here for me, in stroke recovery is thinking about what can I do to better the results of my recovery or make my recovery more productive, I guess. And so I’ve been thinking a lot more about just thinking positive, celebrating the little wins, having a little grace for myself, and also just thinking about changing habits like eating healthier, which I don’t eat very well.

    Aimee Silverman 19:15

    And I mean, because I’m going through all the therapies, I’m going through physical therapy, occupational therapy, I’m going through psychotherapy, I’m doing meditation classes, also undergoing acupuncture, so I think I’m doing a lot, but.

    Bill 19:36

    You are either performing a overachieving you’ve always been an achiever, though, right at work, everything. Yes. Like.

    Prioritizing tasks and nutrition in stroke recovery

    Aimee Silverman 19:43

    I wouldn’t go back to my employer. At the time I had the stroke were so considerate and they were wonderful. They said, you know, come back when you’re ready, and I just, I can do limited things with a limited amount of work in as long as it’s the cognitive recovery that I’ve been struggling with most. And because of that, I have trouble focusing and concentrating on things for long periods.

    Aimee Silverman 20:14

    And things like Zoom meetings also drain me. And so I knew I wouldn’t be able to go back and perform at the level that I would have expected of me or that they had been used to. So I just can’t do it because I don’t like to fail. And yes, I like to overachieve.

    Bill 20:33

    Yeah, I think that’s right. And there is a risk of overdoing and doing too much. So if you’re focusing on, say, many things that are supporting your recovery, like all the therapies, then that’s good because they are supporting your recovery. And then later on, what I found was, that I couldn’t do well, just because of a normal brain, I can overdo things anyway.

    Bill 20:59

    Because you can’t do everything, all at the same time well, you’re going to slack off, and you’re going to lose the ability to do all those things, add your best level, right, so things drop off, and things pick up. So what I found was when I left rehab, after I finally left outpatient rehab, I was then I had more time to myself.

    Intro 21:29

    If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind, like how long will it take to recover? Will I recover? What things should I avoid? In case I make matters worse, doctors will explain things. But, if you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask. If this is you, you may miss out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery.

    Intro 21:58

    If you’re finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you it’s called Seven Questions to Ask Your Doctor about your Stroke. These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition, they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery, head to the website. Now, recoverafterstroke.com and download the guide, it’s free.

    Bill 22:31

    And then as a result of that, I got to the point of being able to focus on nutrition better and do more with my nutrition because I had more time on my hands. So you know, there’s time, you’ll have time to adjust the things that you’re not taking care of the most. And you’ll be able to take care of them better when other things settle down. So it’s, it’s kind of like if you have a to-do list you can’t run at all at the same time, you have to kind of work your way towards it and then prioritize what you think is most important to you.

    Bill 23:08

    Now, you don’t look like your diet is unhealthy, perhaps you could do better. But hopefully, you’re not eating McDonald’s every day after your stroke, and you’re not, you know, all your food is not based around that kind of nutrition sort of level. And if it isn’t, then maybe there’s an opportunity for tweaking it and an opportunity for making it a little better. And then that’s, that’s a good thing.

    Aimee Silverman 23:37

    Yeah, and, interestingly, you mentioned that to-do list because, like one of the things I used to pride myself on at work is getting what I would say GSD. So getting shit done. And and it would make me feel productive, and like I was contributing. And so now I have a to-do list for you know, my house, myself, and whatever. I find that I usually can’t tackle the list of 10 things that I would like to do for the day. And so if I can focus on one or two, that’s usually the best way to go about getting what I need to get done and also feeling productive.

    Bill 24:18

    I remember at one stage my priority was to have a meal ready for everyone who came home after school and after work. Because I had a lot of time on my hands things started to settle down. And everything is nearby, I was able to get to the shops, pick up some ingredients, and bring him home. And if I did nothing all day was fine. As long as by around six o’clock, there was a meal on the table. And then we could all sit around the table and at least have a meal together.

    Bill 24:53

    And it’s exactly that I worked out what my priority was that particular day my priority was going to be to make a meal and I made it. And we ate. And I knew that everyone was going to be home and we ate together. But I got nothing else done. And the old me would feel bad about getting nothing else. And it definitely would have all been losing. You know, boards have been always focused on.

    Bill 25:18

    This hasn’t been done that hasn’t been done. And I’ll just get this done before I get up and I’ll just get that done, then I’ll be rushing to the shops to pick stuff up. And then I’ll be rushing home. And I’ll be doing it all under duress and stress. And it was a completely different experience, being able to just prioritize one task for the day and doing it well. It gave me a lot of satisfaction.

    Aimee Silverman 25:40

    So, Phil, remind me what happened after your strokes and where you left with any deficits.

    Bill 25:50

    After the first incident, I was in hospital for seven days. And I came home with on a medication on a medication called dexamethasone, which was a steroid to reduce inflammation in the brain. And that has side effects like you wouldn’t believe. And it made me Insomniac, it made me feel like there was stuff crawling on my skin. It made me hallucinate. It made me angry and all this kind of stuff.

    Bill 26:21

    So when I first came home, I was a complete basket case I was a mess, I couldn’t achieve or do anything other than basically just be around and try and kind of stay in this realm, or kind of felt like I was in a different realm I was spaced out, I was on another planet. And that started to settle down. And I was at home for six weeks on doctor’s orders to do nothing, absolutely nothing. So I did nothing. Except six weeks later, literally a day or two before my six-week follow-up. It bled again.

    Bill 26:56

    And then when I ended up in the hospital, that time I was in there for three days. But this time the blood clot went from what you guys might call a dime, the size of a dime to about the size of a golf ball. So there was a lot more of my head. Yeah, a lot more of my head being impacted and a lot more and my blood vessels of my neurons were kind of sleepy or switched off or damaged. And when I came back from the hospital, I wasn’t allowed to do anything that I couldn’t do much. I remember sitting and trying to type some emails for work because I had a property maintenance business.

    Bill 27:31

    And I’m trying to keep everyone going and clients paying and all that kind of stuff. I set out to type an email. And I think more than half the day had elapsed, and I hadn’t managed to finish an email. At one point, I didn’t know who my wife was, I couldn’t remember who came to visit me. I definitely couldn’t drive. I couldn’t start and finish sentences, I kind of start a sentence and then fade out. And then and then I’ll finish the sentence two hours later. So cognitively, I was messed up, I still could walk and everything was fine.

    Bill 28:12

    And I never had left-side deficits. And then as things started to improve, because that clot started to decrease, but it took nearly two years to decrease to get to the point where it was not impacting me anymore, I started to feel well. But the period was large. So between the first blade and brain surgery was nearly two and a half years. So in that time, I had every level of deficit and cognitive impairment and emotional challenges and mental health issues, and the whole thing all happened in that time.

    Bill 28:51

    And it was in those early days of the second blade when I was at home the most. So the second time I was home probably for three or four or five months. And it was at that time when I had to try and find a way to feel like I was being useful. And like pick one task and get that done. My dad was picking me up from home to drive me to my appointments to the shops everywhere, everywhere that I needed. And it was oh my god, it was just so all over the place. It was a completely different life experience. I had no idea.

    Aimee Silverman 29:36

    Yeah, that’s crazy. I mean, I can’t even imagine going shopping for groceries and then making a meal. I mean I get tired if I’m going to get a drink from the refrigerator because yeah, all of it is like the energy to concentrate on getting up walking, and doing the thing I mean well I can’t cook right now because my left sight is not functioning. But just the thought of even trying to do that with one hand is difficult.

    Bill 30:09

    Yeah, I know that. I know that brain strain that you experienced because I do get it still, in the early days, I used to get it a lot, and going to a shopping center with all the noise, and the lights, was hard. And I used to avoid sporting events for probably the first, maybe five, six years after this incident. And recently, about a year and a half ago, we went and saw Billy Joel. And even that was a difficult experience. He was live in concert here in Melbourne. And even that was hard for me to be at, although it was enjoyable.

    Bill 30:45

    Part of me was feeling like maybe I was just staying at home. So it still happens with the fatigue, I was at that point. At some stage walking to go to the toilet was too far. And I’d be completely wiped out for the rest of the day. So I know what you mean, one of the things that improved my fatigue was adjusting my carbohydrate intake. So decreasing simple carbohydrates, like pastures and sugars and bread, is good to know, really improved my, fatigue levels.

    Bill 31:28

    And in my book, which is almost ready, it’s this every time I think it’s ready, they tell me there’s something else that needs to be done to tweak it or fix it or whatever. So in my book, which will be up about a month after this goes live in, in the episode, which is about nutrition in the episode in the chapter, which is about nutrition. There’s a book that I mentioned there called Green Brain by Dr. David Perlmutter. That book is the book that I read that completely changed the way that I looked at nutrition to heal a brain and to support a stroke brain.

    Bill 32:07

    And he talks about decreasing the intake of simple carbohydrates like that, because of the way that they spike insulin, and what that does to your energy levels. And then the whole cascade of events that happen after that.

    Managing fatigue and sensory overload

    Aimee Silverman 32:23

    Right. So yeah, so I’ve been, you know, I like you said, I have difficulty going to the grocery, I haven’t been to the grocery store since the shutdown. So it’s been three, three-plus years. And, or going to the pharmacy to pick up toothpaste or whatever, right? All of that stimulation of seeing all the products on the shelves, the lights, the people are straining, I mean.

    Aimee Silverman 32:51

    So, you know, a few things that people said to me is you need to keep pushing. So that way you can kind of exercise your brain that way. And I’m going to do another plug here. So I’m going to Disney in a few weeks, and that you would think would be crazy. And the first time I went to Disney after I had a stroke. I meant my husband was concerned that the lights were not sorry, the people the music.

    Aimee Silverman 33:21

    All of it was I took plenty of breaks as I know at this point that I have to take breaks when I travel. Like usually the first day after I get somewhere I have to sleep the next day, just to get over the flying in an airport, going to TSA getting scanned, getting patted down whatever it might be.

    Bill 33:43

    So we traveled to the United States on New Year’s 20, New Year’s Eve 2020 2013. So not even a year after my first two blades. We went to the United States, we went to New York, California, and Hawaii. And I was the same. So I was dreading the entire flight. I had my wife organize the entire thing I hadn’t, I wanted nothing to do with it. And then when we got there, I often said to my wife, I’m probably going to do nothing tomorrow because I’m so wrecked.

    Bill 34:24

    That you guys go ahead without me and I will just stay here and rest and recover. And I was surprised a couple of times that I was able to wake up in the morning feeling great and say hey, we are back on I am I’m coming with you guys. Everything’s fine and well and then fades out during the day. And we went to Disneyland in California. And I feel like even though it was intense and all the things were happening I feel like because of the joyful nature of the bullying and the experience of being somewhere else.

    Bill 35:07

    I feel like the energy shifted, and the fatigue kind of changed and it wasn’t the same. So the idea of missing out then became something enjoyable, then became less of a thing that I focused on because it was a price worth paying to be there.

    Aimee Silverman 35:29

    Right? So it’s interesting that you say that, because people who know me know me, I’ve I love Disney, like, it’s my happy place. And, before my stroke, when we went, it would be I would go from the park opening to, you know, closing, and I would do two parks and one day sometimes, I mean, I was, so Disney Land is a little bit different than Disney World. But so I was crazy. Like, I would want to hit every ride and go through all of it and push through, even if I was exhausted.

    Aimee Silverman 36:05

    So going after my stroke, it was, I remember, the first time we were there that morning, the first morning, we woke up, I was heartbroken that I just felt like I couldn’t do anything. And so, yeah, but to your point, it’s such a joyful place. And it’s a good change of scenery and the stimulation. I mean, Disney does a great job of sort of allowing people with neuro difficulties to have spots where they can go to be quiet. I mean, I think I was, it was like 90 degrees out one of the days that we were there. And I said to my husband, like I have to take a break, I have to go into air conditioning.

    Aimee Silverman 36:49

    So we went to their first aid area and walked in and I said, Hey, you know, I just need a quiet space, I need to potentially just cool down and lay down. And so she gave me one of the rooms to take a quick nap. And really and I was refreshed. And I was ready to go.

    Bill 37:07

    Yeah, that’s a great move. I love that. And there’s something about being able to go into a quiet space for me as well, this particular room has turned into a little recording studio, is it soundproof? If I come in here, things completely shift for me, like my whole energy levels change and shift and things settle down, and they come down. And that is the thing that bugs me the most when we’re in the house, the TV’s on. People are talking and just being themselves. The doors are banging on the cupboards and all that type of stuff.

    Bill 37:52

    They are the noises that drive me loopy the most of those everyday incidental kind of noises that occur just because people are out and about. And I’ve found that this room does calm me down neurologically, it’s probably a real saving grace because it doesn’t matter where I go in my house, it’s little so you can’t escape the noises even if you go into a room. And when I was at work, I remember going to work. Because after brain surgery, I wasn’t able to go back to my paint-my-property maintenance business.

    Stroke recovery, family life, and independence

    Bill 38:33

    For three years. I used to go to work with really good headphones that were noise-canceling. Without any music on I just put them on my head because we were in an office of 30 or 40 people. And There was too much going on for me to cope with monitoring bright lights above my head and 40 people. It just couldn’t it wouldn’t work to put headphones on to calm me down and make it possible for me to get through a morning’s work.

    Aimee Silverman 39:15

    Yeah, I think you and I had talked about people who are returning to work who have had a stroke could potentially have or maybe the employer can make accommodations for them to have a quiet room or supply, noise-canceling headphones, whatever it might be to help or dim the lights to help them get back to work.

    Bill 39:40

    Yeah, the simple things you could just do in one person’s office. You wouldn’t need to allocate a lot of space just put some soundproofing on the walls, dim the lights put a curtain in there get rid of the desk, and make it possible for somebody to just go in there and sit in a beanbag or Just lie down and write it makes such a massive difference getting a, you know that nap of that power. Recharging a nap is just so important. Yeah. So tell me about the family. You’re a busy lady, not only were you at work and overachieving in your family life.

    Aimee Silverman 40:24

    So family life, I have a daughter and a son who are young adults. My current while at the time, I had the stroke, they were both in school, and I have a dog and my husband. Clearly over the dog, he’s running around, so But nowadays, but nowadays, my son is at school, still, my daughter’s now in the Boston area she’s working. So she’s graduated college. And I, yeah, so that’s my, and I have a lot of support from my brother, my brother-in-law who lives very close to me.

    Aimee Silverman 41:04

    And my parents, I’ve got, I have to say, like, my support system has been fantastic from my family and all my therapists and my friends. So I’ve been very fortunate. And we’re very fortunate in being able to have a private health aide, be with me, during the day when my husband’s at work, to take me to my appointments. And to help me with the things that I can’t do around the house anymore, like household chores, whatever it might be cooking.

    Aimee Silverman 41:37

    Although, sorry, my husband would be quick to correct you and tell you that he’s the one who does all the cooking because he has to come home from work and unlike you, I am not preparing a meal at this point.

    Bill 41:52

    Yeah, I hear. And so your deficits your left side, are you able to get onto your feet or not yet?

    Aimee Silverman 42:00

    I can get onto my feet. So I can walk very short distances without a cane. And I still kind of use I’m not supposed to. So don’t tell my PT this. But I still use, my wheelchair around the house because we have powered floors. So I zip around the kitchen island with the chair. But yeah, if I needed to get up and walk to the refrigerator, I could do that with a cane and not use a chair. And I can also probably walk to the other side of the house, but I don’t, so.

    Bill 42:38

    I feel like telling your PT what would they say. If they found out that you were slacking off?

    Aimee Silverman 42:46

    She probably would, would tell me she would. She wouldn’t be too hard on me, she would give me a little bit of wiggle room, I guess, and say well try not to use the chair, let’s say to go to the bedroom. Try to walk as much as you can down the hallway to the bedroom.

    Bill 43:08

    Yeah. Why do you choose to you? What do you think the underlying reason is, is that you choose to go down the path of the wheelchair instead of walking?

    Aimee Silverman 43:19

    It’s just easier. It’s quicker is less thinking. And I know I’ll be safe. Because I am home alone a lot during the day. And sleepy because I don’t sleep well. And so I’m worried that sometimes if I get up in the middle of the day, to go, let’s say walk to the bedroom or whatever it might be that I get and I don’t eat well. Like I said, I’ll skip meals which also makes me lightheaded. So I know. I’m doing all these great things that I told you about. But I’m also not so they’re not perfect lying to myself. Yeah.

    Fall prevention and recovery strategies for stroke survivors

    Bill 43:58

    Yeah, I know what you mean about the safety side of it. I did have a few falls at home when I was at home alone. Because after brain surgery, my left side wasn’t working properly. And my legs didn’t know it was on the ground. So I’d be sitting on the couch for example, when having a bit of lunch or a cup of tea or something. And I’d go to stand up like I always did in the past.

    Bill 44:28

    Except when I stood up, I did all the right motions, but my leg didn’t know that it was up and my head wasn’t receiving the signals. So then the knee would collapse on me the knee would buckle and then I’d fall so I had a few falls that involved getting up off the couch and walking into the kitchen with a plate and a cup and then smashing that on the ground and then injuring myself.

    Aimee Silverman 45:00

    I have to say getting up off the floor is one of the harder things to do when you’re hemiplegic, I guess is the word. Yeah. When you’re paralyzed on one side. Yeah. Takes a lot of practice and a lot of energy. So yeah, falling in itself is terrifying because you don’t want to bump your head at this point. Yeah. And being alone, it’s like, oh, my gosh, yeah.

    Bill 45:24

    Do you have one of those things around your neck where you can call for help by pressing a button?

    Aimee Silverman 45:30

    Oh, like those I fell? I can’t get up things. Yeah. So you want to know what’s interesting. And this is not a positive plug. Not plug. But my husband had gotten me the Apple Watch because he wanted me to have something like this post to be able to detect if you fall. Well, I fell at one point and the watch never went off. So I can’t I don’t rely on that. I just hope that my watch or my phone or somewhere close by so I can say Hey, Siri, call whatever.

    Bill 46:09

    Okay, so that’s the name she’s calling. Cancel.

    Aimee Silverman 46:13

    Yeah.

    Bill 46:15

    Okay, cool. So if your watch is on, at least you do have the option of doing that.

    Aimee Silverman 46:24

    Yeah, presuming that it’s or assuming that it’s charged, because it does not hold a charge for more than a day, which is another complaint. So I am not endorsing Apple.

    Bill 46:37

    Okay, good.

    Aimee Silverman 46:37

    I’m endorsing Disney but not Apple.

    Bill 46:40

    I was to kind of get them onto the podcast to be my main sponsor. Not anymore.

    Aimee Silverman 46:46

    Oh, you can edit this out, then?

    Bill 46:50

    Yeah, no, I’m not editing it out. That was a joy. I do like the fact that it didn’t use that you’re telling us it didn’t work for you. Because some people might be thinking the same way and relying on it. The last thing you’d want is to rely on something that may not respond the way you want it to my father-in-law, who’s quite elderly, and he’s unable to get up and walk around. He has one of those things, they walk around, and he weighs around his neck.

    Bill 47:21

    It’s like an alarm device that he can press if you need help, for whatever reason, and then somehow calls. He has a speaker next to him. But somehow it calls the device head office. And then they have three phone numbers. My wife, right? What’s your sister-in-law’s and it goes to them? And then they can respond? If he’s not answering sometimes he’ll press it when he’s on the toilet because he can’t get off for whatever reason. And he can’t get back to his seat.

    Bill 47:57

    If he doesn’t respond, then we know that we just need to go to the house and attend and see what’s up and what he needs. So, I’m not I can’t remember what those devices are called. But they are specifically designed for that reason. You wear it around your neck, and then you just press the button. They’re not beautiful, encrusted with diamonds.

    Aimee Silverman 48:19

    No. And actually, it’s kind of a joke when people say, Oh, I fell and I can’t get up. And it’s always like this elderly person who’s in the commercials. Yeah, they portray it as Yes. Older people who are falling. Yes. They don’t have a balance or whatever it might be. Yeah.

    Bill 48:36

    It’s a big market for them. But it applies to us as well, people who are going through stroke recovery. So I think what I like about your situation is that I think you’ve got a lot of recoveries to still do. I think you’ve got heaps of potential for getting better and better and better. And I don’t know what that looks like in five years. But I reckon it looks better than now.

    Bill 49:03

    And I think as you start to feel better about overcoming the way that you’re thinking about the things that are stopping you and the things that could go wrong, as you sort of shift that into a space of how can I improve my mindset around walking more often and not cheating with the wheelchair? How can I improve my mindset around eating better?

    Bill 49:33

    Once you start shifting in that space, you’ll start to gain more momentum, and additional recovery will occur. And then you’ll you’ll start to build on that grass. Yes. Yeah, I think so. I think it’s possible because I’ve interviewed 70 people now and people are recovering all the time and continuing to recover for ages and ages and it doesn’t stop And, you’ll be surprised.

    Stroke recovery and rehabilitation strategies

    Aimee Silverman 50:04

    Yeah, I mean, I, I’m, I’m like on Facebook, there’s a stroke survivor recovery group where people just talk about, like, there are people on there who make gains 14 years after having a stroke. So it’s a continual process. And I recognize that. And I think recovery me is a different definition for somebody else, recovery for me, might be being able to go to the pharmacy and buy a birthday card and come home and not be exhausted, or I might be walking around for the entire day around the house versus using the chair or not using the chair for the entire day, you know? Yeah.

    Bill 50:44

    That’s different.

    Aimee Silverman 50:47

    It doesn’t have to be Brent’s means of recovery. Yeah, it doesn’t have to be. It doesn’t have to be I’m gonna run a marathon, or I’m gonna go shopping at the mall for three hours for holidays or whatever. Yeah.

    Bill 51:00

    Maybe you can just attend the Boston Marathon and observe it.

    Aimee Silverman 51:06

    I have done that. So that’s not since the stroke. So it’s very close.

    Bill 51:13

    That’s the only way that I would observe a marathon. I’d never been involved in that. I couldn’t if I wanted to, I can’t run the way that I used to run before a stroke. But like, doesn’t, right? Participate in that in the way that it used to. But even if I could run this, no way I’d ever run a marathon. Let somebody else do it.

    Aimee Silverman 51:39

    Yeah, I could walk, maybe, I mean, not walk a marathon. But that would be the only way I would finish a marathon even before the stroke was, is to walk it, so.

    Bill 51:54

    We’ve talked about stroke.

    Aimee Silverman 51:55

    One of the things. I do want to do is get back on the treadmill. So I used to walk a lot outside. And that would be very nice to be able to do again. And so now my PT has gotten me on the treadmill without the hoists and the balloons and all that holds you up. So I’m walking very slowly, but at least I’m walking. And I’d like to at least build up to a light jog at some point so that I could eventually get back to walking outdoors.

    Bill 52:29

    There you go. That’s, that’s exactly what I was talking about. Right? So how you see that is probably definitely doable. 100% achievable, how long it takes. That’s the other thing. The timeline shouldn’t be rigid. It should be flexible so that you don’t disappoint yourself if you don’t get there. On January 1, 2024. Some people give themselves deadlines, and then they don’t get them and they get down on themselves. And it’s tough. So just don’t have a deadline or a timeline on it and just focus on it.

    Aimee Silverman 53:06

    Right, just using the word. Yeah, right.

    Bill 53:08

    Let’s see. Yeah.

    Aimee Silverman 53:09

    You said that to me?

    Bill 53:10

    I did. Yeah. Yeah. It’s amazing. It’s also in chapter one of the book. Now, we’ve spoken a lot about all the things that you have got at your disposal, or the things that you are doing. Somebody like you, who’s got a lot of things at their disposal, disposal, as far as stroke recovery tools, and resources are concerned. Is there something that you’re missing? Because I reckon there might be still something kind there that stroke survivors miss, there might be a theme there that develops if I ask enough people, is there anything that you’re missing in your stroke recovery?

    Aimee Silverman 53:55

    So I recently actually looked into a gym an inclusive fitness facility, meaning they serve a clientele that is neurodiverse. So as I said to them, when I met with them, they you know, they asked the typical questions like What are you looking for? What are your goals? And I told them, you know, I’m going to physical therapy. So I’m working on my walking and my gait. But what I think I’m missing is the overall fitness.

    Adaptive fitness after a stroke

    Aimee Silverman 54:27

    I’m not getting cardio work, and I’m not getting core strength work, because I think my recovery would be a lot more difficult if I hadn’t been active I wouldn’t say active I wasn’t a gym rat by any means. But if I hadn’t been at least in decent shape, and you know, had some strengthened muscle on my right side. So that is something that Yeah, I think I’m missing so I’m trying to fill that gap as well. Like a one on one training.

    Bill 55:05

    Like adaptive gym.

    Aimee Silverman 55:08

    Yes, it is an adaptive gym. Yes. And the way it works is that you meet with a one-on-one coach. So it’s almost like personal training. So it would hold me accountable by meeting with them every week. And I assume or I am hoping that they’ll help me with exercises too, you know, keep my right side strong, while also trying to work my left side at the same time. Yeah, I mean, working with my PT when we do strengthening exercises, I’m working on both legs. But again, I’m not doing the overall fitness with the cart because I can’t do cardio.

    Aimee Silverman 55:49

    I mean, I can’t run. I mean there I know there are other things to do to work on cardio. Biking. Yeah, recovering from biking. My is I’m just I think is an option. I am on a recumbent cross trainer or a recumbent elliptical machine. But that has been a consistent exercise that I do with my PT. And I think the inclusive fitness gym will incorporate that into my program.

    Bill 56:24

    I think there’s a market for it. Because Abigail Atkinson, who I interviewed on episode 101 Episode was not 100, what a few episodes ago 200. And something 271. Wow, Abigail, is running an adaptive yoga class. And that was cool because she started off being a yoga instructor. And then she had a stroke in her 40s. And then, as a result of that skill that she had, and being excited about kind of getting back to yoga, she adapted it, and now she has a proper adaptive yoga class and a fair amount of offerings in that space.

    Bill 57:18

    And I think that some people are starting to become aware of the possibilities in adaptive situations, I went to the gym for the first time in many, many years. Because the, because it occurred to me that I could go to the gym and use the weights that are on machines, whatever they call them and so they know free weights, because if I have to use free weights, my left hand won’t manage the barbell, or whatever it is that I’m pushing or pulling. Whereas if I’m doing the machine weights, then the balance is there.

    Bill 57:58

    Because I don’t, it’s not a strength that I lack it gives feedback back to the brain from the hand that I like. So my head can’t push, it just doesn’t know how hard it’s pushing. And it also doesn’t know when it’s tired to tell my brain to stop. So when it tired, when it fatigues it just stops dead. And that’s the hard part. It’s like trying to manage the weight when the left-hand goes out. And then the balance is lost. And then there’s no way of recovering that it’s dangerous.

    Aimee Silverman 58:30

    So I recently ordered a pulley like some to do with my arms where you can pull with your right and it moves passively, I guess passively moves your left as long as your left is, I guess strapped to the handle.

    Bill 58:47

    That’s it. That’s it. Right? So. So it’s possible. And my, the guy at my gym, his daughter had a stroke when she was three or four. So he kind of understands my needs a little better than most people. So when I went there and said yeah, gave me a program without any free weights. It was a really easy conversation to have. And then an even that, right, I say that but then I also interviewed. I’m going to go onto my website now, recoveryafterstroke.com/episodes.

    Bill 59:28

    And I’m going to go to one of the very early episodes where I interviewed a lady who had a stroke and she became a hemiplegic. And I think it was one of I’m not sure which side wasn’t working. But she decided to become a powerlifter. And oh wow. And as a result of becoming a powerlifter, Her name is Kelly Studebaker. It was episode 106. She does it with one side of her body only. And if you look at the images of Kelly on her Instagram, she is like a powerlifter on one side. And a stroke survivor.

    Bill 1:00:17

    On the other side, there’s a complete separation of the two people you can say completely different with the side that has been trained to within an inch of its life and the other side, that is not participating in training. So people find a way is basically what I’m saying is people are also adapting what they are going to do. And they’re finding a way regardless. And it was just fascinating for me to speak with her.

    Bill 1:00:48

    Because she just decided that she wasn’t going to miss out on going to the gym and doing this stuff no matter what. And she just did rolling in my head. So yeah, that’s that. What I’m saying I think, yeah, however you like.

    Adaptive sports and overcoming challenges

    Aimee Silverman 1:01:04

    The world is thinking about including people being inclusive and diverse, right? It’s thinking about, going to Disney, one of the things I want to do is make sure I can go on the rides. Yeah. So my therapists have been helping me with, how do I get on this ride. And how am I going to hold on? And, you know, she said, Oh, you’re crazy. I can’t believe you’re gonna go on those roller coasters. And I said, Well, I’m not a crazy person. I’m pretty conservative.

    Aimee Silverman 1:01:38

    Like, I’m not a thrill seeker. But I told her, I said, but I’m glad I did what I’ve done so far, like I’ve gotten skiing, I can’t go skiing again. Because if I am well, I shouldn’t say I can’t. It’s not safe for me to necessarily go skiing, because if I fall, I bump my head. And that’s not good. Yeah. And I’ve gotten ziplining before but ziplining is something that can be easily adapted to somebody who may have disabilities because you just have to be in a harness. It’s passive and can.

    Aimee Silverman 1:02:11

    Yes, exactly. So things like that. I mean, skiing, even skiing, I know that you can. I know that there are adaptive ways to ski. And I used to golf and I try, like I’m right-handed so I can swing my club. It’s just a matter of keeping the balance of when I shift my weight and twists and turns. So they do have adaptive golf available.

    Bill 1:02:38

    I interviewed a gentleman called Musa Pam, Episode 48. So many episodes ago, one-handed golf champion in his particular division group or wherever. He decided that he was going to seek out organizations that supported I think, well, adaptive golf, for example, perhaps I’m not sure if that’s the right word. But golf is for people who can only use one arm. And, in America, there’s a massive organization that has a huge events calendar for people who want to play golf. Wow, they can only use one.

    Aimee Silverman 1:03:26

    I mean, I was never good at it, to begin with. So I know I would be Oh, yeah, well, that’s available to people. Yeah. It’s not about winning. I know what you’re saying.

    Bill 1:03:39

    But yeah, there is that’s that’s the cool thing about it is there is that’s the maybe they never used to be. And, man, it was just so cool to have a chat with him and to listen to his story. And, again, like you, he just rediscovered a couple of things that he loved. And he was able to participate. And that’s all he wanted the fact that he became a champion in his particular division or whatever. That’s beside the point. But it was getting there getting there was the cool part.

    Bill 1:04:12

    Yeah. And, when you’re playing golf again, so to speak, after something like we’ve been through with that’s a massive achievement. You know, you’ve done so much you’ve recovered so well. You’ve overcome so many things. And look, you’re back in a different way. But your back on the golf on the golf green, and it’s like brilliant.

    Aimee Silverman 1:04:39

    Probably just as terrible, yeah.

    Bill 1:04:44

    You might still be a hack, but it doesn’t matter, right? As we come to the end of the episode, I’d like to ask you the questions that I’ve been starting to ask some people now about the stroke. Okay, journey. And first one is What’s the hardest thing about a stroke for you?

    Aimee Silverman 1:05:04

    The hardest thing is, I think, losing my previous I that I identified with my career for a very long time. And so then when I had to leave work, it was devastating to me. And I didn’t want to. So that’s been the hardest thing.

    Bill 1:05:20

    Yeah. So that’s why I suppose you would have got a lot out of reading Angie reads book.

    Aimee Silverman 1:05:32

    Yes. I know that she has an upcoming book about exactly that. I’m looking forward to so.

    Bill 1:05:41

    About identity loss. And her first book that you read was a book called Invisible Scars, which, by the way, for anyone listening, who wants to get a free PDF version of that, they can just go to recover.

    Aimee Silverman 1:05:55

    Yeah, I have it right here. I’ll just show everybody. Yeah, I bought it because.

    Bill 1:06:01

    Yeah, that’s an amazing.

    Aimee Silverman 1:06:06

    So I had my health aide, read the first chapter, and I’m gonna get my kids and my husband to read the first time because I think the first chapter is telling. And I just read it. And I was like, Oh, my gosh, that’s me. Oh, that makes me feel so better. And I just kept kind of saying that as I was reading it.

    Bill 1:06:26

    Do you feel like people can relate to you better by reading that chapter?

    Aimee Silverman 1:06:32

    I think only my health aide has read it at this point. But she thought it was. Wow, that’s interesting. And that makes sense why you are the way you are? Yeah.

    Bill 1:06:43

    So it gives people an insight into our world. Yes, exactly as having to tell them.

    Aimee Silverman 1:06:50

    Right, because I’ve always had trouble communicating, not communicating, but describing what it feels like to have a stroke brain. Because, you know, I equated it to, I feel like I’m hungover. Most of the day, between a mild headache, the brain fog, and just the lack of energy to do anything. That’s what I kept saying in the beginning, but I think it’s more than that.

    Bill 1:07:17

    Hey, it’s more than that. But I know that’s the only way to tell people who have never had a stroke. Right? I get it.

    Aimee Silverman 1:07:24

    Right. But just the sensations on this on my affected side are crazy too.

    Bill 1:07:31

    What do you experience? I feel numbness, tingling, tightness, burning, cold.

    Aimee Silverman 1:07:39

    All of it. Yeah. Yep. So especially like when I’m doing a new exercise, let’s say you get that muscle soreness, that feels good. But I never know if it’s normal, or if it’s okay. So yeah.

    Bill 1:08:01

    My, deficits, left side deficits, happened after brain surgery as a complication of brain surgery. So that was 2014. So next year will be 10 years since then, just past the living November will be the 11, the nine-year mark, and that numbness has been the same. And it’s been like that the whole time, it hasn’t changed at all. When I get tired, it’s worse. And it’s more responsive, and it’s more annoying, and it’s more challenging to deal with and handle. And I gotta get a lot of massages so that my left side is always settled down and balanced and not as tense.

    Bill 1:08:45

    Because the right side then suffers, the right side gets thrown out of whack because my left side is always out of whack. So I’m always sort of struggling with my muscles. Do you find the therapies work? Well, that’s the support you do. Have you been down that path?

    Aimee Silverman 1:09:06

    So I have not, you know, I have my when I see my OT. So massage the soft tissues that, you know, she says she’ll say my muscles tight somewhere or the acupuncturist might poke somewhere and it will be painful. So I think I’m developing a pinched nerve because my left my left side isn’t as strong as my right side. And when I sleep, I guess my head must dip a certain way. Or I don’t know. Yeah, so I’m sorry, I forgot what your question was.

    Bill 1:09:43

    Was just wondering about massage whether or not it supports you or whether you have been down that path.

    Aimee Silverman 1:09:49

    No, but I would actually, I think I think I would love to be loved to get massages regularly because the circulation once the few times that I have had some sort of massage, it’s always benefited me. And I don’t know, do you need to go to a neuromassage specialist or just any misuse?

    Bill 1:10:15

    I like the deep tissue, guys, the ones that just destroy your muscles and everything, and they just get places that they’re not supposed to go. And it just feels great. After not at the beginning, but after.

    Aimee Silverman 1:10:30

    Yeah, during it’s painful when? Oh, cheese during the massage on my arm?

    Bill 1:10:36

    Yeah. So as we continue wondering, what has stroke taught you?

    Aimee Silverman 1:10:46

    Straw has taught me that I have a great support system that I’m more resilient than I thought I was and that I can do things that I didn’t think I could do. And yeah, so I think the resiliency and the appreciation for my family have increased a lot.

    Bill 1:11:10

    Yeah. And finally, if somebody’s listening to this, who’s just started their journey, what would you like to tell them?

    Aimee Silverman 1:11:20

    I would probably tell them to get going ASAP and keep moving, use it, or lose it. I’m finding that I should have probably been pushing harder, initially, and you’re gonna make a ton of hopefully, progress in the very beginning. And it does slow. And that’s okay, you just gotta keep going.

    Bill 1:11:46

    Yeah. And when you hit the barrier, and you feel like you’ve gone too far, that’s also a good sign, in some instances, because you know where your limit is. And then you can navigate to next time, get to the limit a little less dramatically, and just take it easier and get there sort of more gently. But then also, you’ve known that you’ve got beyond your limit. And that’s a good thing too, because that helps to support that. That recovery, sort of improvement and getting better. And that 1%, change and slow.

    Bill 1:12:26

    But slowly, kind of overcoming your limitations. So if you go over a little bit, just give yourself plenty of time to rest afterwards. It’s an absolute pleasure chatting to you. We’ve done this a couple of times now. And I appreciate you coming into the podcast, and giving me your feedback about it.

    Aimee Silverman 1:12:48

    Of course. Thank you so much for having me. You know, I’ve been hesitant. And I hope it does help somebody out there to hear my story.

    Bill 1:13:00

    Well, it does. Let me share something with you. And I’m going to do a separate video for people on my social so that they can hear this. So I had an email from a lady a week ago, who said that she had a particular weird, strange headache. And she, I’m not sure how, but she kind of realized that it was around her carotid artery. And she Googled some strange carotid artery thing. And you wouldn’t believe it. He brought up my interview with one of the people who if their carotid artery dissection and their stroke.

    Bill 1:13:41

    And she listened to the interview. And she thought that sounded familiar. That’s sort of similar. Then she decided to listen to a second interview with another person who I interviewed. And they had the same symptoms. As a result of that. She took herself to the hospital and told them I think I had a carotid artery dissection.

    Aimee Silverman 1:14:05

    You saved somebody’s life.

    Bill 1:14:07

    I’m not me, this podcast is us. We did it together. And, and she’s gone and told them what the problem is. They’ve checked and sure enough, there was a carotid artery dissection. And it had not yet caused the clot. And it’s avoided a stroke for sure. And potentially save the life. And now she is on the mend. And they are looking at resolving the carotid artery dissection and not dealing with a stroke. So how amazing is that?

    Aimee Silverman 1:14:42

    Yeah, that’s great. Sounds like you should have her as a guest.

    Bill 1:14:45

    I tried to get around but she’s not ready yet. So I’m gonna give a space. And I hit her up again in the new year. But isn’t it amazing that that’s a possibility now for people to discover things like that because of a Podcast? And, I always sort of said, if our podcast only helps one person, then I’ve done my job. And there’s the person. And now that the job’s done, I’m just going to keep doing it because I can’t stop now. So thanks for helping me do that.

    Aimee Silverman 1:15:20

    Of course, yes, then thank you again for having me. And spending time to speak with me. I always find it very beneficial. And I get all sorts of great, you know, tips and encouragement from you. So thank you for doing the podcast. Yeah.

    Bill 1:15:37

    You’re welcome. Thanks, Amy. Thanks for joining us on today’s episode, remember, to grab your copy of chapter one of the book The Unexpected Way the Stroke Became the Best Thing That Happened, just visit recoveryafterstroke.com/book to take a look around and discover what the book is all about. And then just click the Download free chapter button. As always, to learn more about my guests, including links to their social media and other pages.

    Bill 1:16:05

    And to download a full transcript of the entire interview, please go to recoveryafterstroke.com/episodes Thank you to everyone who has already left a review, it means a lot to me. It also means that other stroke survivors who are looking for this type of content will find it and that will make their life easier. So it’s well, you must leave a review for them, but I appreciate it also if you leave a review for me.

    Bill 1:16:37

    So go ahead and do that go and leave a five-star review and a few words about what the show means to you on iTunes and Spotify. If you are on YouTube watching the interview, leave a comment below the video. I love seeing comments I respond to all the comments. Thanks again for being here and listening. I appreciate you see you on the next episode.

    Intro 1:17:00

    Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals’ opinions and treatments. Protocols discussed during any podcast are the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed all content on this website at any linked blog, podcast, or video material controlled by this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis.

    Intro 1:17:30

    The content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice the information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances, or health objectives. Do not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose treat, cure, or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional.

    Intro 1:17:55

    Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional, your doctor, or your rehabilitation program based on our content if you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition, please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional if you are experiencing a health emergency or think you might be called triple zero if in Australia or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance or go to the nearest hospital emergency department medical information changes constantly.

    Intro 1:18:21

    While we aim to provide current quality information in our content. We did not provide any guarantees and assume no legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, currency, or completeness of the content. If you choose to rely on any information within our content you do so solely at your own risk. We are careful with the links we provide however third-party links from our website are followed at your own risk and we are not responsible for any information you find there.

    The post Ischemic Stroke Recovery | Aimee Silverman appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

    1 hr 20 min
  • Loss Of Vision Stroke | Rachel Miller

    Rachel Miller is living with Loss Of Vision caused by an ischemic stroke when she was 46 years old

    Recovery Daily Podcast:

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    Highlights:

    02:03 Introduction

    08:46 Loss of vision stroke
    20:56 Stroke recovery and cognitive issues
    27:09 Nutrition and brain health after a stroke
    39:50 Alcoholism, addiction, and recovery
    49:30 Stroke recovery and daily habits for well-being
    54:11 Sobriety, mental health, and creative coping strategies
    1:02:21 Overcoming stroke and mental health challenges

    Transcript:

    Rachel Miller 0:00

    The first step of putting alcohol down is recognizing that my life was unmanageable. And I couldn’t live like that anymore. And the same thing happened four months ago when I was trying to keep working, sometimes 12-hour days because I wanted to do my job and I wanted to be successful. And I had just reached the point where I was doing the thing that I had aspired to do above my head hurts so bad, I couldn’t live like that anymore.

    Rachel Miller 0:32

    And I sat out on my front porch, and I just started crying. And I was like, I can’t live like this anymore, and I had to walk away. So I’ve had to do it twice. And it’s like my sobriety was practiced so that I could prepare for how to live with my vision and paraments in a way that does not reignite all of my mental health issues.

    Intro 1:03

    This is the recovery after stroke podcast, with Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after a stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:16

    Hello, and welcome to the Recovery after Stroke podcast. The final touches on my book before it goes live, keep coming, change a word here remove a line there. And it is a testament to the exceptional work being done by all the people involved to ensure that the end product is professionally presented, and of high quality.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:37

    To celebrate the end of the four-year journey from concept to almost a book. I’m giving away the first chapter free. The book is called “The Unexpected Way That A Stroke Became The Best Thing That Happened.” And it shares 10 secrets from stroke survivors that will transform your life. If you go to recoveryafterstroke.com/book and fill out the form, you will receive the book in your email inbox a few moments later.

    Introduction Rachel Miller


    Bill Gasiamis 2:03
    This is episode 274, and my guest today is Rachel Miller, who is living with vision loss after a stroke and is hoping to connect with other stroke survivors who are experiencing the same thing. If you’d like to connect with Rachel you can visit the show notes at recoveryafterstroke.com/episodes and find all of her contact details there. If you leave a comment on the YouTube video of this episode, I’ll ensure to pass on your information to Rachel and connect you.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:36

    If you are a stroke survivor with a story to share about your stroke experience, come and join me at the show. The interviews are not scripted, you do not have to plan for them. All you need to do to qualify is be a stroke survivor who wants to share your story in the hope that it will help somebody else who’s going through something similar.
    If you are a researcher who wants to share the findings of a recent study or you are looking to recruit people into your studies. You may also wish to reach out and be a guest on my show.

    Bill Gasiamis 3:08

    If you have a commercial product that you would like to promote that is related to supporting stroke survivors to recover. There is also a path for you to join me on a sponsored episode of the show. Just go to recoveryafterstroke.com/contact Fill out the form explaining briefly which category you belong to. And I will respond with more details about how we can connect via Zoom.

    Bill Gasiamis 3:30

    Rachel Miller, Welcome to the podcast.

    Rachel Miller 3:33

    Hi, thank you.

    Bill Gasiamis 3:35

    Thank you for being here and reaching out. Tell me a little bit about your stroke story because there’s more to your story than just a stroke.

    Rachel Miller 3:45

    Yeah, there is. Thank you first of all for allowing me to share my story. I’ve been trying hard to share my story so that I can find somebody who has the neurological vision impairments that I do I’ve had a hard time finding that so I appreciate you allowing me to be a part of your podcast. So yeah, my story starts with alcoholism.

    Rachel Miller 4:19

    And I’m seven years sober over seven years sober. And gratefully I had that time to work a program that the day that I had my stroke on June 2021. I had a foundation for what to do and recovery, but this is very different. Very different than recovering from alcoholism. So um, yeah. Do you want to hear about what happened to the stroke?

    Bill Gasiamis 4:55

    Yeah, just give me a bit of an understanding of how it happened or what happened. And then we’ll go for the rest of it.

    Rachel Miller 5:03

    Sure. So I was working that day, and I had gone outside the front door to take my Weimaraner out to go to the bathroom. And I was standing outside waiting for her. And we were just talking before the podcast about my ability to entertain myself. Well, part of that is me talking to myself, you know, I think we all do it. But I was talking to myself kind of whispering to myself thinking about what I needed to do for work and stuff.

    Rachel Miller 5:40

    And all of a sudden, what I was thinking was not what was coming out of my mouth, I couldn’t form the words like I there was nothing wrong with my thinking, but it just wasn’t coming out right. And I just had this moment of panic. And so I went inside and, and talked to my boyfriend and my son, and I told them, I couldn’t talk, you know, I said, I can’t talk, and they looked at me, like I had three heads, you know, I was 46 years old, with a history of alcoholism, and a history of mental health issues.

    Rachel Miller 6:30

    So for me to walk in and say, I can’t talk as far as like how, what’s going on with her now that I quickly was able to, I read, I tried to read a piece of paper and, and I knew what the words said, but I couldn’t say it. So immediately, my boyfriend took me to the hospital, which is 15 minutes from here. As soon as I came in, they hooked me up and gave me an MRI, I found out I was still having the stroke. And they had somebody, they wheeled in a guy on a TV screen from Georgetown hospital.

    Rachel Miller 7:18

    And they did some testing on me, he kind of guided the nurses in the room had tested me and concluded that I was having a stroke and that I needed a clot buster, immediately. You know, it’s interesting that we were in the middle of having a stroke and yet we’re in charge of making those life-changing decisions at the same time they were asking me Do you want the clot buster, a clot buster with hesitation after hearing some of the, the statistics for brain bleeds and stuff that can happen from a clot buster, you know it, it was only gonna get worse if I didn’t get it.

    Rachel Miller 8:09

    So I went ahead and got it and it was serious business, you know, they all come in, they’re looking at the clock and, and, and there’s one guy in charge of writing down my symptoms. Another lady is looking at the clock, there’s another guy like it was very scary. It was very scary. And so for about an hour, he continued to talk to me and coincidentally kept trying to have me talk about my dog my weimaraner, because I couldn’t say the word weimaraner.

    Loss of vision stroke

    Rachel Miller 8:46

    So by the end of the hour, I was able to say Weimaraner again, and as time went on what I did not realize had happened was I had neurological vision impairment. That was the result and it didn’t. I didn’t understand what was happening, for a while. I mean a couple of weeks and the doctors couldn’t figure out what was going on. I had a headache, had a headache that just wouldn’t stop and they kept trying to give me Tylenol they gave me a leave they gave me a Percocet, which sidenote that is very dangerous for an alcoholic somebody who is easily addicted.

    Rachel Miller 9:38

    I want nothing to work. So I still um, as of a month ago, my headache finally subsided with some migraine injections. So it’s been two years that I’ve had a headache.

    Bill Gasiamis 10:00

    Wow, is that like a world record?

    Rachel Miller 10:04

    I think it is. I think it is. Yeah, it was, there’s an underlying headache. And then the more my vision is aggravated by movement, for example, I’m looking above my computer instead of adding it. And that’s because it causes my head to hurt. It’s it’s an underlying headache. But the more that I aggravate it becomes like sharp pains in my head, and I’ll get nauseous. It’s It’s terrible. But we’ve finally found something that’s, that’s making an impact on it. So hopefully, that’ll continue.

    Bill Gasiamis 10:43

    Yeah. Sounds like a bit of a drama with the screens, because I know what that’s like I have a lot above my head here on the right, I have one on the left. I have two monitors in front of me and the third one reporting what is happening. And it’s, it is hard to do an hour, and then walk away feeling okay. The head does.

    Rachel Miller 11:05

    For a normal person.

    Bill Gasiamis 11:07

    Yeah. And then the head does get overstimulated, the, the lights and all of that stuff that especially fluorescent lights do cause neurological discomfort, I suppose the word is, so that’s normal. I was really bad early on after my brain surgery. And it kind of got better over time. I was able to spend more and more time in front of a monitor. To the point where I was doing a normal workday.

    Bill Gasiamis 11:35

    But it’s quite a drama for people who have had a stroke, especially if you have vision impairments. So tell me what the vision impairment is like, compared to normal vision. So how has it changed?

    Rachel Miller 11:51

    Yeah, so after I had my stroke, when I saw my, primary care physician, she said that my symptoms were very similar to somebody that had a concussion. So she recommended things like sending me to a concussion clinic and also recommended easing me back into work. My job is, was as a marketing director. So it was all digital. And so easy me back into work by working about 15 minutes, taking a two-hour break, working 15 more minutes, taking a two-hour break.

    Rachel Miller 12:35

    And then over a couple of months that I was on short-term disability, we just kept increasing that by about 15 minutes. And what would happen is I would get this feeling it’s the best way I can describe it. It felt like I had rubber bands wrapped around my head like 100 rubber bands, and they were just squeezing my head. I went to an optometrist who diagnosed me with like the inability to track movement, and then also convergence and the ability to converge images. That was the optometrist’s diagnosis.

    Rachel Miller 13:28

    I feel like there’s something more happening because I can’t even look at a computer screen without getting aggravated at you know, my head getting aggravated whether the, the screen is black with white writing on top, you know, and I’m just looking at a Word document, or it’s looking at you while we’re talking. I got it no longer. I haven’t watched TV and 4 months. Imagine missing Big Bang Theory for 4 months.

    Rachel Miller 14:03

    I also can’t drive a ride in the car, or ride a bike, I have a problem walking long distances because the earth moving in front of me, makes me nauseous and makes me feel a little off-kilter.

    Bill Gasiamis 14:21

    So the Big Bang Theory, you know, it’s in the 10th season of its repeats, right? It doesn’t. You’re not missing on that?

    Rachel Miller 14:32

    Every day. I can’t do without it. I’ve even told my boyfriend that we need to just turn it on so I can hear it.

    Bill Gasiamis 14:44

    Because I just wanted to make sure you weren’t concerned that you were missing out on the next episode.

    Rachel Miller 14:50

    I’m not missing anything new. No, nothing like watching each each episode for the 100th time.

    Bill Gasiamis 14:58

    Yeah, so it sounds like have you spoken to a neuro-ophthalmologist.

    Rachel Miller 15:07

    So, the neuro-ophthalmologist, No. I’m going to get a neuropsychiatric exam in December. I’ve been waiting for that for months. I’ve gone to a neurologist and an optometrist but not a neurooptometrist. Yeah.

    Bill Gasiamis 15:34

    So the neuroophthalmologist will be somebody who deals with vision issues related to neurological deficits. So things that are caused by the brain cause vision issues, because technically the ophthalmologist will look at your eye, it’s healthy. My, him, there’s nothing wrong with your eye, but it’s not doing those things. So we know what it’s not doing. And the neuro-ophthalmologist might be able to give you a more detailed understanding of how to rehabilitate it.

    Rachel Miller 16:12

    Okay. I, you know, one of my challenges, of course, because I stay away from digital as much as possible, I have started learning VoiceOver on my phone and my mat. But researching is slow going, but I did run across what you’re talking about. So, neuro optometrists, I think I need to look into that. For sure. And, and have got, have them take a look at me.

    Bill Gasiamis 16:42

    It’s a different level of specialist. Like this. And therefore, it’s gonna be probably more in line with what we do with by whom you need to be looked at because the optometrist is not going to is going to say, well, this is what I see. But I don’t know what the underlying causes and then as a result, won’t be able to guide it. So with my vision issues, which were based on sensory overload, if I was in crowds, or a bright, sunny day, or even actually an overcast day, I sunglasses and a hat when my best friend for a long, long time. Does it work with the sunglasses? Minimize?

    Rachel Miller 17:29

    Yeah, to just so what I ended up doing is I have the hat on so I can only see what’s in front of me, my sunglasses, and then I do a lot of kind of a softening my gaze. So if I try to focus on something, that’s when it hurts, though. I’m walking around kind of dazed as it you know, I mean, I’m not mentally dazed, but kind of have that. Look in, my eyes, if that makes any sense.

    Bill Gasiamis 18:07

    Yeah, I know the look. I know what you mean. Because it does help because it means that you have more peripheral vision, rather than more narrow vision. And as a result, the muscles are not as tense and tight. And the decreasing of the stimulus.

    Rachel Miller 18:27

    Yes, it’s so nice to have somebody understand.

    Bill Gasiamis 18:31

    Yeah. Stroke Survivors understand completely what he’s saying. There are a ton of people whom I’ve interviewed who have vision issues after a stroke and several different. Well, I suppose not resolutions but several different techniques to try and make it more comfortable for them, I suppose.

    Rachel Miller 18:56

    Yeah. One of the things that I’ve tried twice that was unsuccessful, is vision therapy. So the optometrist tends to recommend vision therapy, which of course is not covered by health insurance. But I tried it anyway, just because I was desperate. But this second time around, my pain was so bad that I couldn’t they couldn’t even get me into the office. And that’s what’s interesting, if I may tell you that I started working and getting back to work doing, this program that my doctor set up for me.

    Rachel Miller 19:42

    And then two years later this past April, my daughter graduated and we drove to go see her graduate. And it was a lot of driving which I had to keep my eyes shut and the car was a lot of stimulation for graduation and stuff. What ended up happening is I don’t know, it’s like something broke. And my vision hasn’t been the same since then it’s not improving, it’s back to the way it was right after I had this stroke. And I don’t know if I’ve just pushed myself too hard. But I’ve had to start this recovery all over again.

    Rachel Miller 20:30

    And because of that, I’ve ended up having to leave, my career, which I loved. So that’s what’s happened recently. So I, I’ve kind of been going through to recovery starts. One, I thought it was kind of all over, but I pushed myself too hard, it seems like and I had to start all over again, four months ago.

    Stroke recovery and cognitive issues


    Bill Gasiamis 20:56
    That’s interesting. So there are a lot of ups and downs with short recovery, but you do get to feel like things are going well. And then there’s a lot of setbacks, and then you have to go again, and there’s a setback, and so on. So there is a lot of that. I mean, it’s probably similar to somebody who is going through sobriety, you have really good times, and then you have bad times and then you kind of keep having to move towards the good times, I suppose or the the positive, I suppose.

    Bill Gasiamis 21:32

    But it may, it may not be that you push yourself, there might be an underlying cause there might be something else that’s triggered that. And a lot of people will say that fatigue. And overdoing things and pushing us up, sometimes does cause deficits, to play up and to act up and to be worse. So my deficits on my left side, if I overdo things, my left side gets numb. And then it’s really difficult to balance properly. And I have to make sure that I rest and sit down. But that usually is transient.

    Bill Gasiamis 22:12

    So by the next day, if I had a good night’s sleep, the deficits kind of go back to normal, whatever that means. They just settle down a lot more. So the fact that it’s your vision is kind of getting there. And then it’s sort of had a setback, and it’s not transient. It’s not just a daily setback. And it’s long, there might be an underlying cause. And that’s why I reckon neuro ophthalmologist will be somebody that might be able to provide some insight provide, Yeah, I mean, what do I know, but maybe they can help?

    Rachel Miller 22:58

    I appreciate that. I swear tomorrow, I’m gonna give them a call because that’s I’m just constantly trying to do whatever the suggestions I hear, not whatever suggestions I hear I get a lot of people like, have you tried Botox? Have you tried? And I’m like, No, this is beyond Botox. I need specialists. So of course, I appreciate everybody’s suggestions. But I am this neuroophthalmologist, right? ophthalmologist,

    Bill Gasiamis 23:30

    Yeah, they’re kind of beyond the optometrist level. So and they’re, they’re a little bit more specialized. So they are, they are people who have a deeper understanding of that space and more, more stroke survivors who perhaps are listening to that have vision issues may not know that that’s who they need to speak to. They may not have been told you need to specifically see somebody who handles neurological vision issues, not regular vision issues.

    Bill Gasiamis 24:03

    Yeah. So for example, I went and saw a neuropsychologist after my stroke. My psychologists suggest that I go and see a neuropsychologist because the neuropsychologist understands how deficits in the brain cause certain symptoms, and they can address them from a neurological perspective, not from a behavioral perspective.

    Rachel Miller 24:29

    Yeah, yeah. So one of the things that has happened recently in this second time around is I don’t know if it’s correlated with the pain in my head, having chronic pain I know causes cognitive issues, but I have done over the past three months depending on how bad the pain is. I’ll start replacing words, all start forgetting what I’m saying, like a mid-sentence, I’ll just, it’s like a TV turning off, I’ll be talking and then all of a sudden, I’m like, I have no idea what I was saying, which is a normal thing that we start getting when we get older.

    Rachel Miller 25:19

    This is, this is exponentially happening, you know, I started baking and recovery, because it’s, I’m searching constantly for things that I can do, that don’t hurt my head. And baking is one thing because it’s slow. It’s not like cooking, where I’ve got multiple burners going or something, it’s, it’s slow, and I had read about it being good for your brain. So I put on some classical music, and I bake, and, but if I have, say, somebody baking with me, and they’re talking to me, while I’m baking, I can’t do both things at one time, I can’t listen to what they’re saying.

    Rachel Miller 26:10

    And, you know, I’ll do things like put the butter in the cabinet, I put a measuring cup on top of the baking soda container as a lid, like things that don’t make any sense. And it’s just from trying to listen and do at the same time. So that’s really where the neuropsychiatrist exam is gonna come in, and we’ll see what’s happening.

    Bill Gasiamis 26:40

    Okay, it looks like you’re on to a problem-solving mindset anyway, like, you’re about trying to find solutions, and you’re seeing people that’s good. That’s great because that’s ultimately going to get you answers. Okay, that wasn’t useful. All right, what’s the next thing I can try and just keep going? Yeah. And if it doesn’t help, it doesn’t mean it didn’t help. It means that you have more information and now, you can just go down the next path. Tell me about your baking, what do you bake?

    Nutrition and brain health after loss of vision stroke

    Rachel Miller 27:09

    So we started weed meaning I invited some friends over because I was afraid to bake by myself. Just, I just couldn’t even follow directions on my own. And that seems to be getting a little better. So I invited a couple of friends over and we made pretzels, which turned out to be outstanding. And then I made bagels with my knees. And then I started making bread.

    Rachel Miller 27:40

    So I’ve been making all kinds of different bread. I got the sourdough starter that I think everybody names their sourdough starter. So my name is Ricardo. And so I think cupcakes are this weekend, I’m gonna make some Thol cupcakes. So yeah, I am thinking about starting to find some cooking recipes. My boyfriend is Persian. So I’m thinking about maybe getting into cooking some things that don’t require you to move quickly. You know, that’s kind of one step at a time thing. So I’m gonna look into that also.

    Bill Gasiamis 28:25

    All right, I’m glad I heard that because what I’m going to do is I’d better burst your bubble a little bit. Not because I’m mean or nasty, but because wheat-based products are not good for brain recovery, and consuming a lot of wheat-based products, you’re probably doing your recovery, a disservice. And so that I’m not the one who has to hit you over the knuckles with the wooden spoon. I’ll just leave it for Dr. David Perlmutter to do that through his book called Grain Brain. Okay.

    Rachel Miller 29:08

    So here, yeah, I went to a stroke survivor support group this week, and they said the same thing. So that’s two people telling me the same thing. That means I gotta cut back and start making something else.

    Bill Gasiamis 29:23

    If there’s anything I can encourage people to do when they go on a stroke recovery journey is that they need to dial in their nutrition, and one of those things that they need to stop is alcohol. Then they need to stop gluten, then they need to stop sugar, then they need to stop dairy, and then caffeine. All those five foods if they stop those, okay, what happens is you get rid of the inflammatory responses that those foods create in the body.

    Bill Gasiamis 29:55

    And if you’ve got a quote-unquote normal brain you’re not noticing the inflammatory responses that are occurring, your brain is more resilient, and it can handle that kind of stuff. Some people do notice food comas and brain fog and fatigue and that kind of stuff, and not being able to think straight. And that’s a lot of the time related to food. So then when you’ve got a stroke brain, you’re, it’s able to be irritated and put into those negative states far easier than it was prior.

    Bill Gasiamis 30:31

    So when people struggle with fatigue, they just cut out sugar and gluten, they’re going to have a massive, improvement in their fatigue scenarios, and their deficits will not be as dramatic. So I noticed that from time to time when I go out to a party, and there’s some cake, and I have to have a pace that the sugar and the combination of the ingredients that make an amazing cake, do impact my neurological ability and the way that I feel. And I can also feel the sugar coursing through my veins. I know that’s strange and sounds weird.

    Rachel Miller 31:17

    I know that I do too.

    Bill Gasiamis 31:20

    Yeah, like I can probably feel it. And it’s so bizarre. So that’s it from me, as far as lectures go. I don’t want to make this about lectures. But yeah, it’s just a bit of information that people don’t know is important. And like I said, to get in, if you’re a curious person like I was and you get the book on audio, if you can’t read it with your eyes, get it on audio by Dr. David Perlmutter is a massive, amazing insight into how not consuming those types of foods will improve your neurological health long term.

    Rachel Miller 32:03

    Great, I’ll do that I listened to a lot of audiobooks. That’s one thing that I enjoy doing that doesn’t hurt my head. So yeah, that’s a great recommendation.

    Bill Gasiamis 32:13

    I make some awesome meals instead, some beautiful, you know, protein-based meals with some veggies on the side and that kind of stuff. And, do that instead, it’d be lovely. So you’ve got a history of overcoming dramatic situations. Right? Sounds like you’re a bit of a fighter. One of those things was alcoholism, but I feel like the alcoholism probably came from the other condition, that you mentioned, which was mental health challenges. Did I get the order? Right? Is that how it kind of came to be?

    Rachel Miller 32:52

    The way that I think of it is, you know, I always thought that I drank. I had anxiety. I was depressed because I had a, you know, a bad marriage. But I’ve realized in sobriety that I drank because I’m an alcoholic. After all, I have a disease. The medication that I was taking for my mental health issues didn’t work, when I was trying to drink or, you know, trying to self-medicate with alcohol, my, anxiety medication, and all the other things that I was taking for panic attacks.

    Rachel Miller 33:42

    None of it was working. And it was, you know, alcohol was my best friend. And it was it was terrible to have to say goodbye. You know, that may sound weird to somebody who’s not an alcoholic, but it was, it was devastating. But um, I, you know, they say one day at a time, you know, I had a couple starts on that just like I had a couple starts with the stroke recovery. I had gone to detox for alcoholism in 2015.

    Rachel Miller 34:25

    And I just couldn’t imagine spending the rest of my life without drinking and I ended up drinking again a couple of months later, and I drank for eight months until my daughter, you know, I was hiding it from everybody. Everybody knew that I was drinking 24/7 At that point, my daughter approached me and said it was okay to try again. And it’s taken a long time for me to be able to say that line without crying, but so I went back to detox, that time around, I decided I was going to do whatever it took to get sober.

    Intro 35:06

    If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. Like, how long will it take to recover? Will I recover? What things should I avoid? In case I make matters worse, doctors will explain things. But, if you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask.

    Intro 35:31

    If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com. Where you can download a guide that will help you it’s called Seven Questions to ask your doctor about your stroke.

    Intro 35:50

    These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition, they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery, head to the website. Now, recoverafterstroke.com and download the guide. It’s free.

    Rachel Miller 36:09

    And I’ve been able to pull a lot of parallels between my recovery from alcoholism my program. And what I’m trying to do for my stroke. I want the first step of putting alcohol down is recognizing that my life was unmanageable. And I couldn’t live like that anymore. And the same thing happened four months ago, when I was trying to keep working, you know, 10 hours a day, sometimes 12-hour days because I wanted to do my job.

    Rachel Miller 36:49

    And I wanted to be successful. And I had just reached the point where I was doing the thing that I wanted that I had aspired to do. And above, but I couldn’t. My head hurts so bad. I couldn’t live like that anymore. And I sat out on my front porch. And I just started crying. And I was like, I can’t live like this anymore. And I had to walk away. So I’ve had to do it twice. And like I said, I’m just really grateful that it’s like my sobriety was practiced so that I could prepare for how to live with my vision impairments. And in a way that does not reignite all of my mental health issues.

    Bill Gasiamis 37:40

    Wow, that’s an amazing way to get there. So when you’re an alcoholic, are you functioning? Are you capable of driving and being at work and being in all sorts of normal places or not?

    Rachel Miller 37:59

    When I was actively drinking, is that what you mean? Or after?

    Bill Gasiamis 38:03

    Oh, yeah, but you pardon, Yeah. The terminology I’m not certain with so yeah, when you’re actively drinking.

    Rachel Miller 38:09

    When I was actively drinking, I don’t know. I you know, I put people’s lives at risk, I put my life at risk, I was drinking 24/7 The only time I wasn’t drinking was when I passed out. And if I happen to wake up, I had a leftover glass of wine beside my bed that I would reach over, you know, nasty room temperature and I would throw that down just to relieve any of the the shaking, and I would go back to sleep and the morning I would wake up I was nauseous.

    Rachel Miller 38:47

    Sometimes I was throwing up and I would drink until I stopped throwing up. And then I would drive myself to work drinking on the way it got to the point where I just stopped showing up. I had a friend who passed away all of a sudden, and that was an excuse for me to just give up entirely on everything. And I didn’t go back to work after that. All it took was I ended up drunk reaching out to who ended up being my boss at my job that I just left.

    Rachel Miller – Alcoholism, addiction, and recovery


    Rachel Miller 39:38
    I reached out to him and didn’t even know him. reached out to him because I have it and I said I’m an alcoholic and I need help. And my company is amazing, I’m so loyal to them. They, they helped me I, they, they sent me flowers when I got out of detox. You know, like, companies don’t do that for people. There are a lot of misunderstandings about, obviously the disease of alcoholism.

    Rachel Miller 40:11

    And I’m just really fortunate that I had a company that was like a family to me and, and they stood behind me the whole way. And I ended up going from drinking in my cube. Don’t tell anybody, too, that I was a director within seven years, so my whole life has changed since I got sober.

    Bill Gasiamis 40:40

    How does somebody, what? Not how but you’re well, yeah, how how do you drink for that long is a slow start? And it’s when you’re 21, you have one drink? And then by the time you’re 22, you’re having three? Or how does somebody get to be able to drink? I would imagine gallons of alcohol a day.

    Rachel Miller 41:06

    Yeah, yeah. I so my drink of choice was Bella Chardonnay, Boxed Wine. And I started you know, I started drinking alcoholicly from the moment I started drinking. One beer was never enough. When I was a teenager, one beer was never enough. I was gonna drink until there was nothing left. I never. As soon as I had alcohol in my system, I was all of a sudden, confident, I felt like I was, you know, the funniest person in the room. I was at the party. And I went, I went to college, and I was drinking every day in college.

    Rachel Miller 41:58

    I was a math major. I don’t know how I did it. I remember my professor reaching out to me about a month before I was supposed to graduate. And she said, Are you supposed to graduate this year? And I said, Yeah, because I’m pretty sure I was failing her class. It was calculus and I never went to that class sober. My sorority at the time said that I was an alcoholic. And I thought that they were just mean girls calling me names. I got married, and I drank every day. I always drank every day. Until I started working at home for the family business.

    Rachel Miller 42:41

    And that was one thing that started. It was more accessible. I could drink at noon, you know. And then eventually, I was drinking when I woke up. I have that job at home for about 10 years. And I, my mind just went blank. I had that job for like 10 years. And so it took that long for me to start drinking all day long. And I ended up losing that job because when I had a business trip, I had to go to the main office, I would drink so much the night before that I wouldn’t get up and show up to work. And so eventually they were like, We cannot have you, you know, you’re a risk.

    Rachel Miller 43:38

    So they, you know, they said goodbye, which is the comparison to the company that helped me. They said goodbye. This company helped me get sober. And yeah, it’s just some people. It’s different for everybody. I got sober when I was 42. Some people get sober when they’re 21. I, their part of me wish I got sober when I was 21. Because I would have been more present for my kids.

    Rachel Miller 44:16

    When they were growing up, my kids were off. They’ve graduated from college, they’re off building their own lives now and I, you know, I learned in sobriety that I’m not supposed to have regrets. But if I were to have regrets, it would be that it would be not being present for them. But they say they say I was a great mom anyway.

    Bill Gasiamis 44:41

    Yeah, fair enough. Well, so do you feel like this has been trying to kind of get my head around what alcoholism is and how and how people get into it? And I know some people who are alcoholics who are in their 50s and have not admitted it and they probably we’re alcoholics. When we were 16 and 17, we had just started drinking. I feel like is it a personality trait. That is has an addictive component? And if that’s not the case, that’s cool, but then do many alcoholics need to switch their addiction to something else, which is more supposedly healthy?

    Rachel Miller 45:31

    Healthy. It’s so funny that you should ask me that, I, you know, what I’ve learned in my sobriety program is that alcoholics tend to be obsessive about things, and I have an obsessive personality. I wouldn’t call it obsessive-compulsive, compulsive. But diagnosed, you know, I just always need to be doing something I need to. That’s why it was so devastating to me walking away from my career, because what am I supposed to do? You know, I was working every day, I was even working on the weekends.

    Rachel Miller 46:20

    What am I supposed to do now? Well, I quickly started my podcast. And, and I started recording every single day. And I, my friends, were asking me, you know, how do you and my family? How do you come up with something to talk about every day? And as I told you, before we started this podcast. I don’t interview anybody. It’s just me running my mouth. And it’s because recovery is daily. You know it, I have something to talk about every day, because I’m trying to live as a sober alcoholic, who’s recovering from a stroke. I mean, of course, I have stuff to talk about every day.

    Rachel Miller 47:13

    Whether it’s, you know, nutrition, like what you’re talking about, which I’m epically failing at, or I’m trying to get exercise habit, which I’ve just started doing Yoga again, I used to do that every day. That’s been a challenge to try to figure out what exercise I can do that doesn’t hurt my head because I used to run I can’t run now because the earth is moving and bouncing. And I can’t do that. So yoga is all about getting your drift key, and so I’m doing yoga now.

    Rachel Miller 47:52

    I started sewing. I grew up with my mom being a sewer. And I thought, well, I can sew that doesn’t hurt my head, though, what do I do? I’m, I made a quilt, you know, I made a quilt like right out of the gate, which I’m proud of, but it’s just like, I can’t stop. I can’t slow down. And I feel like that is some sort of like, underlying addictive personality that I have, which can be an asset like at work. I think it was an asset to the point where I always was, you know, I was on fire getting things done. But it can also be negative and I can’t stop.

    Rachel Miller 48:42

    I’m working 10-12 hour days. Yeah, you know, so I’ve tried to balance. And though I’ve learned a lot from again, applying my sobriety program, to this stroke recovery, to try to slow down. I’m trying, I just did a podcast on slowing down. And it’s a it’s a meditation that is a part of my sobriety program. So yoga and meditation slow down, and I have to actively apply those techniques to keep my brain healthy. Take care of my brain.

    Stroke recovery and daily habits for well-being

    Bill Gasiamis 49:30

    Yeah, I relate to your podcast titled Recovery Daily. The stroke is that for me every day, and the reason my podcast exists is because I need to talk about it more and more and more and more all the time. Because if I don’t feel like it kind of builds up and then and then it’s not healthy when it’s built up. And of course, I can talk about all sorts of things for life and the people that I love. Who around me all the time, but they don’t necessarily want to have a stroke conversation every single day of their lives, you know.

    Bill Gasiamis 50:08

    So, stroke survivors whom I met once on a podcast who don’t mind talking about stroke, go, this is a therapy session for me. Every time I get to speak to somebody exactly, you know. So yeah, I can understand how, how recovery daily is the thing that you need to do. And that’s small steps. Because you don’t have to do a lot of recovery every day, you just have to do a little bit. And then that adds up over the week, over the month over the year.

    Bill Gasiamis 50:39

    And then you’ve come a long way, rather than just going and doing sort of bursts of recovery, and then sitting on your laurels and then doing nothing for a little while, I think it is better to do small amounts of daily recovery. And I still feel like I’m in recovery. And I’ve been doing this since 2012. And it. It’s an ongoing thing. It’s a lifestyle now, it’s how do I go about training and my health and well-being, permanently?

    Rachel Miller 51:16

    Yeah, that’s what you know, that’s what I learned in sobriety is that this is a new way of life. And every morning, I wake up and remind myself that I’m a grateful recovering alcoholic. I used to wake up when I first got sober, and thought, I’m an alcoholic. Just like when I first had my stroke, and I woke up and thought, I can’t see, you know, I this these days, so ever since COVID. started, I started going to a 7  a.m. sobriety meeting. And I still to this day, do that. So that’s four years later, I think we’re out day or week.

    Rachel Miller 52:08

    Sorry, month for sorry, year for whatever. I go every morning at 7 am. During that meeting, I took the time to think about my recovery. Think about what is what is my role in my life. am I carrying the ball? Am I you know, am I engaging in my life today? Or am I sitting back feeling sorry for myself because I’m an alcoholic because I had a stroke? Because I can’t take I can’t drive my brand-new car. I can’t drive it.

    Rachel Miller 52:53

    Now, I’m not going to do that. Because I know what it felt like when I was active drinking every day I knew what misery felt like. And I don’t want to ever feel that way again. And if I don’t take care of myself, even having had a stroke, I may drink again. And the reason why I started my podcast was that I woke up in April this past April, having had my symptoms re-engaged, I woke up and thought so much I wanted a muscle relaxer.

    Rachel Miller 53:36

    That’s what I felt like I needed for my head, my head was like, so tight, and in pain, and I wanted a muscle relaxer. I immediately sent a message to my brother and asked him to create a Spotify podcast account for me because I have to share what’s happening inside me so that it doesn’t destroy me on the inside. And I ended up drinking or taking some sort of mind-altering drug.

    Bill Gasiamis 54:11

    Is it a way to keep you honest?

    Rachel Miller 54:13

    That’s right.

    Sobriety, mental health, and creative coping strategies

    Bill Gasiamis 54:14

    I like it. Because that’s why I had to do the podcast. It’s because if I’m telling, I’m getting 8000 downloads a month, and if I’m and it’s getting to about 50 countries or something, Rachel, and if I’m telling all of those people every month, not to wait, wait and not to a deary. Well, I have to not wait and deary as well. I can’t just tell people to do stuff without doing it myself.

    Bill Gasiamis 54:45

    That’d be in what wouldn’t be authentic. Right? It wouldn’t be nice. Yeah. So that’s part of the reason why the podcast exists. It’s to keep me honest and to keep me focused so that when I have a bad couple of days I record my podcasts on the weekend.

    Bill Gasiamis 55:03

    I have a few bad days during the week, the podcast kind of breaks the cycle because we have to get here, inspire people, give people hope, encourage people, tell people, what the journey looks like 10 years down the track, how things changing, things get better, and what you can achieve. So it breaks the entire negative cycle from say; going into a fourth fifth or sixth day.

    Rachel Miller 55:34

    Absolutely, yeah. It’s an incredible way to be accountable for what you’re saying. Just like four days ago, I was talking about building habits. And I had decided, you know, app in the episode, I’m going to start my habit of daily yoga. So I have to do daily yoga like I am 100% accountable, for doing that. Yeah, it’s, uh, there are some days, you know, I do try to mostly be up, I am just naturally kind of a perky person uplift, uplifting kind of personality.

    Rachel Miller 56:19

    It’s because of my sobriety program that I liked that I didn’t use to be like that. But there are days that you know, I still have a bad life still have. When we’re in sobriety, life still happens after you’ve had a stroke. And we got to figure out how to navigate it.

    Rachel Miller 56:39

    And there are ways that I have an episode that I don’t rerecord those episodes, because if I’m truly being open and honest about the struggle, I am in sobriety, and in my stroke recovery, I want to show them the city of how hard it is on some days because that being vulnerable like that shows other people that they are not unique, you know, that somebody can relate to how I’m feeling though.

    Rachel Miller 57:21

    That’s what’s important to me. That’s another reason why I do it. I do it to keep myself sober. And I do it so that if there’s anybody out there who can relate to me, maybe I can help them too.

    Bill Gasiamis 57:35

    Yeah, brilliant. I often tell people who tune in or who are on my podcast, that recovery from stroke is three-pronged. The three main pillars of recovery are the emotional recovery, the mental health, recovery, and the physical recovery. And I noticed that on your podcast is an episode there that talks about getting creative with emotional sobriety. What’s What’s that? Like? How do you role emotional, the emotional side of recovery into sobriety had any do that?

    Rachel Miller 58:19

    Yeah, so I think that was a recent episode about creative coping. If I’m thinking of the same episode that you referenced, I can, I can’t remember what it was called. But what I like to do so. So just like you’re saying, there’s emotional, physical, and mental and it’s the same thing in sobriety, you know, we have to take care of our bodies and take away the alcohol. Lots of my nutrition, aside from the bread is a result of taking the alcohol out.

    Rachel Miller 58:57

    So here’s the thing you’re gonna cringe but I’m going to show you anyway, I have this whole big bowl of Blow Pops because I took away the alcohol but my sugar intake has skyrocketed, and it’s something that, that I don’t beat myself up about because I quit drinking massive I would have drinking, I quit smoking. I smoked for I don’t even know how long and I entirely quit smoking. I’m like, I can have a Blow Pop if I want Blow Pop, you know? Yeah. So creative coping.

    Rachel Miller 59:46

    What I’ve done is I’ve tried to it’s it’s kind of building habits. So when I feel angry, I do push-ups. That’s my creative coping, it’s a way to get the energy out, I tell my daughter all the time is very energetic. When you’ve got all these emotions and stuff, it’s just energy and it needs to get out of you. And so one of the ways I get my energy out is by talking on my podcast, the other way that I get my energy out, is I do push-ups. If I’m feeling like, kind of spun up in my head, like wrapped around the axle.

    Rachel Miller 1:00:32

    I’ll do something like sewing, you know, focus on something or painting or one of these new hobbies that I’m creating. And so just trying to find different ways to attach links and emotion to an activity. Because if I don’t link that, then it just spins around up here. And then it goes down into what I call my dark place. And that dark place was full when I was drinking. And today, I like to keep it nice and empty.

    Rachel Miller 1:01:11

    I also have this thing I call it a god box. And I’m not religious, I never have been, but as part of my program, we are to come up with a higher power of sorts. So I have my concept of what that is. And I have this box that when you know I’ve my whole life, my mom used to say, let it go, Rachel, don’t let it bother you. And I didn’t know what to do. Um, so I needed some sort of action to correlate to letting something go.

    Rachel Miller 1:01:49

    And otherwise, I didn’t know how to do it. So when I get pissed off at somebody, I write their name down on a sticky note, and I put it inside the box, and I shut the box. And that represents me letting things go and because I can’t control people, places, and things. So everything I do is tied to an action and that keeps me mentally healthy, at least to a point.

    Rachel Miller – Overcoming stroke and mental health challenges


    Bill Gasiamis 1:02:21
    I love that. It’s extremely useful what you said not only did you tell me how useful it is, and describe it, you are physically placing it out of the realm of your head into an external realm and away from you. And it’s kind of done that, therefore it’s been sort of dealt with, it’s been taken out of your head in that moment. And then do that enough times and then the habit becomes something that you do even if you’re not near the god box, so to speak. And you’re, you’re doing it imaginatively, you’re using your mind to do it, and you’re imagining yourself.

    Rachel Miller 1:02:58

    I’ve learned how to let something go, and sometimes I just picture myself putting it in a box.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:06

    Yeah, I could do I could do with a box like that. I’m gonna take that and see how I can adapt it for my use because sometimes I do get stuck on the things that are just dumb, and they’re not worth getting stuck on and then it takes too long to unstick from them and then they just take up too much time and energy and effort and aggression and anger and all that sort of can come up.

    Rachel Miller 1:03:35

    Yeah, it’s all about me it’s all about not picking up a drink not finding an excuse to drink.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:43

    Yeah. As we come to the end of the episode, I’d love to ask you about what you feel was the hardest thing about a stroke.

    Rachel Miller 1:04:02

    I think the hardest thing you know I still tend to feel sorry for myself. When they you know in these last four months that I’ve had to leave my career, figure out what it is that I can do that makes me happy that doesn’t hurt my head I mentioned I just bought a new car and since April I can’t drive anymore. It’s the hardest part is dealing with what’s happening here and here.

    Rachel Miller 1:04:52

    That’s the hardest part. I’m one thing that I’ve encountered by going owing to different strokes, support groups, which I’ve tried to tackle the way that I tackle my sobriety fellowship, which is trying to put myself in a position where I can talk to like-minded people, the exact reason why I reached out to you because I wanted to be able to, you know, the more that I can get engaged with people in the community, community, the better I can grow here and here.

    Rachel Miller 1:05:31

    What I’ve learned is that there are so many people who have had a stroke that don’t look like they had a stroke, I didn’t know that before I had the stroke, I thought everybody who had a stroke, could tell they had a stroke. But the more that I get involved in the community, community, I’m learning that I don’t know what the ratio is, but so many people have impairments to have had impairments that nobody can see. And it’s so similar to our mental health, to the illnesses that we hold inside us that nobody can see.

    Rachel Miller 1:06:21

    That’s been my battle my whole life. And, so I don’t know that it’s, it’s going to change my life and that I have to work harder at my mental health, it’s just that I’m going uphill right now. And I’m climbing another mountain to figure out how to navigate my life. This new way of life, you know, this, I can’t do the things I used to be able to do. And I find myself feeling very sorry for myself that if I keep talking to you and other people in the community keep doing my podcast. I don’t get stuck there.

    Rachel Miller 1:07:14

    You know, I find that there’s opportunity in our lives no matter what, no matter what we’re up against, you know, I get choked up about it because I’m because I keep fighting. You know, I just keep fighting and I’ve lost a lot of friends who couldn’t fight anymore. For that reason, I’m fighting harder so that I can share their story, share my story, and do the best I can to add value to the world as both a recovering alcoholic and a stroke survivor.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:08:03

    What has stroke taught you?

    Rachel Miller 1:08:16

    It’s taught me that no matter what’s in front of me, I’m going to look for a solution. I didn’t know that I had that in me. But I’ve, I’ve learned a lot about how freakin strong I am. I didn’t I had no idea that I was strong. Some people come to me and they’re like, how are you doing it? I kind of know.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:08:42

    Even though you’ve been through sobriety and all the things that you’ve had to overcome, you didn’t realize that you were strong. Until recently.

    Rachel Miller 1:08:58

    No, you know, I have to keep telling myself that might be part of my mental illness. You know, I have to keep telling myself that I’m strong.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:09:15

    You are, well, the final question is about other people. What do you want to tell somebody else who might be a long listen to one of these episodes comes across your one and is kind of hoping to find out something new and encouraging? What do you want to tell them about what the future holds or what what’s important?

    Rachel Miller 1:09:44

    Yeah. I would want to tell whoever is listening that you know, life can seem like there’s no way out That’s, that’s how I felt when when I reached my bottom, when I was drinking, I felt like there was no way I couldn’t live my life. Without alcohol, I felt like life was no longer gonna be fun without alcohol. And, and I found out that life is more fun. When you’re present, you can remember conversations and you have more energy to enjoy the world.

    Rachel Miller 1:10:38

    You know, today I, I can take a walk with my dog around the block and I’ll see a squirrel. And I’m like, my face lights up because that’s what the world does to me now. And it didn’t look like that the world didn’t look like that when I was drinking. And what’s interesting is that as a stroke survivor I have a harder time looking at the world, you know, I have a harder I can’t watching a squirrel run across the grass.

    Rachel Miller 1:11:18

    But I have all of these snapshots that I’ve recorded over the past seven years of sobriety. And, so today, I do a lot of looking inside, to find joy, you know, because we spend a lot of our lives searching for joy. And what is it that brings me joy? Should I get married? Should I you know, get a dog? Should I have a kid you know, what I have found is is the joy is found inside. It’s not found out there. It’s found inside. And by going through all of these, this stroke recovery and all of that stuff, I’ve been able to get rid of all the trash and find it and find that joy.

    Rachel Miller 1:12:14

    And I would just love for anybody who feels hopeless to know that. It’s in there. You just have to, you just have to dig and get it out, you know, uncover it.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:12:28

    Wow. Well, on that note, thank you so much for being on the podcast.

    Rachel Miller 1:12:34

    Thank you so much. I appreciate you having me.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:12:37

    Now, just before we do go though, why don’t you share with everybody where they can find you, especially your podcast?

    Rachel Miller 1:12:46

    Yeah, thank you so much. My podcast is available on iTunes and YouTube and all the platforms and it’s called Recovery Daily podcast. I also have a website recoverydailypodcast.com. And I’ve got social media, LinkedIn, and Facebook. So you can find me in all of those places. And it’s me, it’s just me. So if you reach out to me, I’d love to talk to you about your experiences and share mine, and we can continue to grow this community that keeps us all healthy.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:13:30

    Thanks for joining us on today’s episode, remember to grab your copy of chapter one of the book The Unexpected Way that a Stroke Became the Best Thing That Happened, by visiting recoveryafterstroke.com/book. Take a look around and discover what the book is all about and click the download free chapter button. As always, to learn more about my guests, including links to their social media, and other pages, and to download a full transcript of the entire interview.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:13:57

    Please go to recoveryafterstroke.com/episodes Thank you to all the people who have already left a review it means the world to me, and you are helping others in need of this type of content to find it easier, and that is making a massive difference in their recovery. If you haven’t left a review yet and would like to, the best way to do it is to leave a five-star review and a few words about what the show means to you on iTunes and Spotify.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:14:25

    If you’re watching on YouTube, definitely comment below the video. I love seeing your comments. I will respond to all of the comments on the YouTube channel. So please do that. Like this episode and to get notifications of future episodes. Subscribe to the show on the platform of your choice. Thank you once again for being here and listening. I appreciate you and see you on the next episode.

    Intro 1:14:51

    Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals’ opinions and treatments, protocols discussed during a podcast are the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed all content on this website at any linked blog, podcast or video material controlled this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis.

    Intro 1:15:20

    The content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice. The information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances, or health objectives. Do not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose treat, cure, or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional.

    Intro 1:15:45

    Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional, your doctor, or your rehabilitation program based on our content if you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition, please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional if you are experiencing a health emergency or think you might be called triple zero if in Australia, or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance or go to the nearest hospital emergency department medical information changes constantly.

    Intro 1:16:12

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    The post Loss Of Vision Stroke | Rachel Miller appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

    1 hr 17 min
  • I Had A Stroke While Asleep | Donna Miller
    Wake-Up Strokes: Understanding the Silent Threat While You Sleep
    Introduction

    Strokes are often considered medical emergencies that strike when you least expect them, but did you know they can even occur while you’re asleep? Wake-up strokes, as they are called, are a silent threat that can manifest during the night and go unnoticed until morning. In this comprehensive guide, we delve into the world of wake-up strokes, their causes, risk factors, symptoms, treatment, and outcomes. We also explore how these strokes differ from daytime occurrences and emphasize the importance of immediate medical attention.

    What Is a Wake-Up Stroke?

    A wake-up stroke is a stroke that occurs during sleep, leaving the person oblivious to its onset until they wake up with symptoms. The main challenge with wake-up strokes lies in the uncertainty of when the stroke occurred, making timely treatment difficult. Strokes are most effectively treated when addressed promptly, but wake-up strokes throw a wrench into that critical timeframe.

    Prevalence of Wake-Up Strokes

    While it may come as a surprise, wake-up strokes are not as rare as you might think. It’s estimated that anywhere between 8% and 28% of all strokes occur during sleep. This silent threat is more common than we realize.

    Causes and Risk Factors
    Stroke Basics

    A stroke is essentially a disruption in blood flow to the brain. It can occur in two primary forms:

    • Ischemic stroke (a blockage in the blood vessels)
      • Hemorrhagic stroke (blood leaking in the brain)

        • Various factors can increase the risk of suffering a stroke, including:

        • Diabetes
          • High blood pressure
            • Heart disease or failure
              • Atrial fibrillation
                • Pregnancy
                  • Hormonal birth control pills
                    • Intracranial disease
                      • High cholesterol
                        • Sickle cell anemia
                          • Brain aneurysm
                            • Congenital heart defects
                              • Lack of exercise
                                • Certain autoimmune diseases and infections
                                  • Cancer
                                    • A previous stroke or transient ischemic attack (ministroke)
                                      • Unique Factors for Wake-Up Strokes

                                      Although wake-up strokes share the same fundamental causes as daytime strokes, some distinctive factors increase the risk of experiencing a wake-up stroke:

                                      Age

                                      While the risk of stroke naturally increases with age, the connection between age and wake-up strokes remains uncertain. Research suggests that the average age for wake-up strokes is slightly higher than that for daytime strokes, but exceptions exist.

                                      Sleep Disorders

                                      The role of sleep disorders in wake-up strokes is still not entirely clear, but ongoing research is shedding light on their involvement. Obstructive sleep apnea, a well-known sleep disorder, has been linked to strokes, but it appears equally associated with wake-up strokes as with strokes occurring during wakeful hours.

                                      Cause and Effect

                                      Interestingly, sleep disorders can both contribute to and result from strokes. For instance, individuals who have had wake-up strokes are more likely to snore than those who experience strokes while awake. This complex interplay highlights the need for further research.

                                      Lipid Profile

                                      High cholesterol is a recognized risk factor for strokes, and studies suggest that wake-up stroke survivors may have a significantly worse lipid profile than their counterparts who experience strokes during the day.

                                      Blood Pressure

                                      Hypertension (high blood pressure) is a general risk factor for strokes. Research indicates that hypertension is associated with an increased chance of cerebral infarction strokes during sleep, emphasizing the need for proper blood pressure management.

                                      Smoking

                                      Smoking is a well-known risk factor for strokes, and it appears to elevate the risk of having an intracerebral hemorrhage, a specific type of stroke occurring during sleep. Quitting smoking is crucial for reducing this risk.

                                      Signs and Symptoms of a Wake-Up Stroke

                                      Recognizing the signs and symptoms of a wake-up stroke is essential for seeking immediate medical attention. These symptoms are identical to those of daytime strokes and may include:

                                      • Facial drooping, often on one side
                                        • Arm or leg weakness
                                          • Speech difficulties
                                            • Dizziness
                                              • Vision disturbances
                                                • Confusion
                                                  • Incontinence (inability to control urine)

                                                    • For example, a person who experiences a wake-up stroke might wake up with sudden vision loss, wet the bed during the night, or struggle to move their arm when attempting to get out of bed. If you or someone you know exhibits these symptoms, do not hesitate to call 911.

                                                    How Wake-Up Strokes Are Treated

                                                    Treating wake-up strokes poses unique challenges due to the unknown time of onset. Patients often do not qualify for reperfusion therapy with tissue-plasminogen activator (tPA), an effective treatment to restore blood flow through blocked arteries. This therapy must be initiated within 4.5 hours of a stroke, and the uncertainty surrounding wake-up strokes makes it inaccessible.

                                                    Diagnostic neuroimaging, such as CT scans and MRIs, becomes crucial in the treatment of wake-up strokes. Experts are increasingly advocating the use of neuroimaging to identify the stroke’s onset time, which could expand the pool of eligible patients for reperfusion therapy.

                                                    Once a patient is medically stable, the treatment for wake-up strokes aligns with that of other stroke types. This includes physical therapy, occupational therapy, and speech therapy, all initiated within 24 hours and tailored to a patient-centered plan.

                                                    Recovery and Outcomes

                                                    The recovery and outcomes for wake-up strokes follow a pattern similar to that of other strokes. However, the extent of damage and the location in the brain, along with co-occurring medical conditions, influence the recovery process.

                                                    Some studies indicate that there are no significant differences in clinical features or outcomes between wake-up strokes and daytime strokes. Nonetheless, other research suggests that individuals who experience wake-up strokes may be more severely affected, albeit without a difference in fatality rates. This discrepancy is likely attributed to the delay between stroke onset and treatment, as well as the exclusion from certain treatments like reperfusion therapy.

                                                    Resulting Sleep Disorders

                                                    Interestingly, some individuals who have experienced a stroke may develop stroke-induced sleep disorders.

                                                    Episode 273 Interview with Donna Miller

                                                    Donna Miller woke up in bed in the middle of the night while she was having an ischemic stroke.

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                                                    Highlights:

                                                    02:19 Introduction

                                                    03:01 Wake-up stroke and hospitalization
                                                    08:22 Stroke survivor’s emotional struggles
                                                    16:10 Recovery and emotional impact
                                                    25:28 Post-stroke seizure disorder
                                                    29:17 Overcoming speech challenges and isolation
                                                    35:23 Friendship changes after a stroke
                                                    42:02 Coping with stroke and identity changes
                                                    50:19 Managing work-related stress and anxiety
                                                    55:53 Finding a new path in life
                                                    1:01:17 Recovery and Overcoming Fears

                                                    Transcript:

                                                    Donna Miller 0:00

                                                    Because it happened in the night in the dark in my bed in five years, I can count on one hand how many times I’ve slept in a bed with the lights off. I went from the day bench and my recliner in my living room. I have done that for three years now asleep on the window ledge, my craft room with every light in thereon.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 0:17

                                                    So you know how ridiculous that is, I can tell that you know that. That’s ridiculous. However, you cannot find a way to go back to your bed because you think that what?

                                                    Donna Miller 0:17

                                                    I’m not silly enough to believe that it happened because I was in my bed. And I was in the dark. And we lived in Texas at the time. We’re now in Tennessee, a completely different house a bit different bit. I said it could have happened in this car. I get that. But somewhere in this brain of mine. I cannot sleep in the dark. I don’t know why and my husband can’t save the lives.

                                                    Intro 0:54

                                                    This is The Recovery after Stroke Podcast. With Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after stroke.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:06

                                                    Hello, and welcome to The Recovery after Stroke podcast. As I mentioned in my last episode, I’m putting together the final touches on my book before it goes live. To celebrate the end of this four-year project, I have decided to make the first chapter available for anyone curious to check it out, free of charge.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:27

                                                    The book is called The Unexpected Way That Stroke Became the Best Thing That Happened, and it shares 10 secrets from stroke survivors that will transform your life. If you go to recoveryafterstroke.com/book and fill out the form, you will receive the first chapter in your email a few moments later. So go ahead and grab your copy now.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:49

                                                    If you are a stroke survivor with a story to share about your experience, now is the perfect time to join me on the show. The interviews are not scripted, you do not have to plan for them. All you need to do to qualify is be a stroke survivor who wants to share your story in the hope that it will make a difference for somebody else going through something similar.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 2:08

                                                    If you are a researcher who would like to share the findings of a recent study or you are looking to recruit people into your studies. You may also wish to reach out and be a guest on my show.

                                                    Introduction – Donna Miller


                                                    Bill Gasiamis 2:19
                                                    If you have a commercial product that you would like to promote that is related to supporting stroke survivors to recover. There is also a path for you to join me on a sponsored episode of the show. Just go to recoveryafterstroke.com/contact Fill out the form explaining briefly which category you belong to.

                                                    And I will respond with more details about how we can connect via Zoom. This is episode 273. My guest today is Donna Miller, who experienced a right cerebellum stroke while she slept aged 49.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 2:53

                                                    Donna Miller, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for being here. Tell me a little bit about what happened to you.

                                                    Wake-Up Stroke and Hospitalization

                                                    Donna Miller 3:01

                                                    Well, let’s see. July 29, 2018, and went to bed one night and I woke up somebody else. Normally I’m not an early riser because I stay up really late. And I happened to hear my husband up at about 5:00 in the morning. I got up and went to the bathroom.

                                                    I just glanced at myself going by the mirror in the bathroom and I noticed my face was on my chin, or my mouth was on my chin on the right side. And I didn’t have my glasses on I said to my husband do you see what I see? And he said well something looks off.

                                                    Donna Miller 3:44

                                                    Well it took several hours for my son you know to get up and he’s like Mommy’s had a stroke I said no, no, no, I’ve been I feel fine. Um thinking because I’ve never had a stroke that when I was struggling to feel something I’m gonna know it and I didn’t and so finally went to the hospital and everything and they did a test and all that kind of stuff and delivered after three days that I had a stroke.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 4:15

                                                    And the first sign was the way that your left side appeared to you when you looked in the mirror.

                                                    Donna Miller 4:23

                                                    Yeah, the right side of my mouth was almost down here. The whole right side of my mouth and my eye would not close at all my right eye. I had weakness on my whole right side. And I just, feel fine. I mean I had a massive headache but I bet I had been struggling with the migraine for four days solid prior. And I have a history of migraine so you know.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 4:57

                                                    And then when you went to the hospital, they immediately knew that you had a stroke. They could tell.

                                                    Donna Miller 5:04

                                                    Well, the hospital didn’t. The neurologist said. She came in and, said, I think we’re going to keep you here for a little bit. And I go for what I don’t want to be here. She said because you’ve had a stroke. And I’m like, no, no, no, no. But I finally did relent and say.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 5:23

                                                    Why do people don’t want to be at the hospital when I’m unwell? And it’s potentially serious, I have no problem being at a hospital, you know, I was like, let’s go to the hospital, let me get checked out. When I finally overcame the idea that there was nothing wrong with me.

                                                    After that, it was confirmed that I was at the hospital, and I want it to be nowhere else where it’s the best place to be as far as I’m concerned. But I’ve met a lot of people who have come onto a similar journey as us that that will go. I hate hospitals, I don’t want to be in hospitals. And I’m trying to curiously understand what’s at the bottom of that.

                                                    Donna Miller 6:01

                                                    I don’t hate hospitals when I work in the medical field. And so I don’t hate the house as I don’t mind taking someone else there. I just don’t like needles. Number one, and I don’t want to poke and prod on me. Number two, I mean, I was a workaholic back then. And in my mind, the only thing I could think of is I had work to do. I have better things to do than lay up in the hospital.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 6:28

                                                    Yeah. Fair enough. Makes sense. Most people are busy. And they’ve got a ton of tabs open, so to speak on their browser, and they’re all going at the same time. And they all need to be sorted. And you can’t do that when you’re away from that place where things get done, and you’re who you are. So you’ve gone home after three days. What’s that? Like? How do they send you home? What’s the kind of send-off you get? What do they tell you?

                                                    Donna Miller 6:57

                                                    Well, all I knew was I had a stroke. I didn’t know what kind I didn’t know where they did MRIs and CAT scans. And they said the neurologists were off to see them after the fact. And I go home, and they’ll kind of fill me in on everything.

                                                    I didn’t have insurance, because I was self-employed. So they did offer to send me to a facility like a rehab or nursing home type place. And I could get some type of rehab there. And my my son was like, oh, no, my mom’s No, no, we’ll take care of her.

                                                    Donna Miller 7:32

                                                    And so my son who was 20 at the time, almost 20 stayed home, he took care of me helped feed me, cooked for me, you know, picked me up off the floor, but I’m gonna fail. You know, till my husband came home every day.

                                                    It was very alarm bells. What am I gonna do with my life now? You know, at that time, I couldn’t stay awake heartbeat. I couldn’t remember certain things. I couldn’t do anything. And I was very independent. So that was like crushing for me. When I did see the neurologist, I never got any answers got any therapy. Never nothing.

                                                    Wake-up stroke survivor’s emotional struggles

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 8:22

                                                    And did you have many falls while you’re at home?

                                                    Donna Miller 8:26

                                                    Oh, yeah. I mean, it’s the beginning I was falling several times a day. You know, and I had a walker with management we got me a walker with a seat and everything. But I very rarely used it because I didn’t want to become dependent.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 8:41

                                                    So it was a little bit of that time where you’re still thinking I’m gonna I’m gonna be okay. I don’t need to use this thing. And was it getting up to walk to go to the kitchen wherever and then just your leg, your right side just sort of failing to support you how did it?

                                                    Donna Miller 8:59

                                                    It could be that or it could be midway. You know, it could be because I slept a lot. I had a hard time staying awake then. And I would cycle between just insomnia to couldn’t wake up. You know. And so there were times when I fell out of the not even a bed or something like a deep pit type thing.

                                                    Because it happened in the night. In the dark in my bed. I in five years. I can count on one hand how many times I’ve slept in a bed with the lights off. So I went from the day bed to my recliner in my living room. I did that for three years. Now asleep in a window ledge my craft room with every light in there on.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 9:48

                                                    So you know how ridiculous that is. I can tell that you know that. That’s ridiculous. However, you cannot find a way to go back to your bed because you think that, what?

                                                    Donna Miller 10:01

                                                    Well, like I told my husband last night, because we got into this, you know, conversation. And I said I’m not silly enough to believe that it happened. Because I was in my bed, and I was in the dark. And we lived in Texas at the time, we’re now in Tennessee, a completely different house, but a different bit.

                                                    I said it could have happened in this car. I get that. But somewhere in this brain of mine, I cannot sleep in the dark. I don’t know why. And my husband can’t save lives. So okay, well, yeah, I just stay somewhere else.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 10:41

                                                    Yeah. So you do know that that might be a post-traumatic stress disorder symptom, what you’re experiencing?

                                                    Donna Miller 10:51

                                                    Yeah. That is just really silly stuff. I don’t know,

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 10:57

                                                    A combination of both. But really, it’s not uncommon. I’ve heard before from people who have had a stroke at night in bed, that certain conditions make it very difficult for them to go back to sleep in that environment because there is a Post Traumatic Stress Disorder thing going on.

                                                    If I go back there, I’m creating the conditions for another one to happen as if you did that anyway. But that’s kind of what goes on in their head. And then the struggle is real, it’s real because sleep is becoming an issue.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 11:35

                                                    The most important thing you need after a stroke is you need to be able to sleep at night, so your brain can heal, flush the toxins out, and give you energy the next day. So their fatigue is not dramatic and not bad.

                                                    So maybe Donna, because we’ve known each other forever, and I can give you advice, maybe it’s something to think about is going to a neuro-psych or a psychologist and seeing if that potentially actually a psychologist and see if they can explain the disorder to you and see whether you relate to and whether they can get you a diagnosis.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 12:17

                                                    Now, from there, you have some information about the underlying cause as to why you’re not getting there. Because we know the stroke is not the underlying cause. There’s something else stopping you from going there and switching the lights off. But I’ve heard it before I get it.

                                                    Donna Miller 12:36

                                                    Yeah, and I don’t get it. And I guess I would say everything has changed upon me. And no longer the same person in any shape, form, or fashion. I used to be very independent. never cry about anything unless I was furious. Now I cry about everything. My face is still crazy and funny and a lot of times when I’m talking is like I know what I’m trying to say. But my brain doesn’t push it out.

                                                    Donna Miller 13:14

                                                    You know, and people look at you like you’re a little slow, like something’s wrong with you. And so I finally this year decided, Okay, I’ve got a job where have insurance now. Because I lost, I had to give up business everything. I’m going to find out what’s going on. Started with a neurologist. I’ve been to every doctor since and why am I so fatigued? Why can I not function in life? And I do have a neuropsych appointment the next day for it.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 13:50

                                                    Excellent.

                                                    Donna Miller 13:54

                                                    So we’ll see what happens with that. I do I am going to see a psychologist, I finally decided I need to talk to somebody at the end of this, so.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 14:04

                                                    Good, good, good. Good. That’s great. So you know, the crying thing? That’s very common as well. Do you know that amongst stroke survivors, one of the things that becomes a little bit uncontrollable is the ability to cry or not cry or hold back your tears that happened to me? I’ll give you an example. Last weekend, literally seven days ago, my football team won the championship. So I was I laughed because it was the only thing I could do. I was crying throughout the whole game. I was so emotional.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 14:40

                                                    And we had people over we had a barbecue and people were over for lunch and everything. My wife was just begging me the whole time she was just are you going to cry over it? She can cry over that. And I would have to tell her to shut up. Shut up. Leave me alone. Don’t talk. Stop it. I’m watching the game. And I was doing this I was I was sitting as far away from everybody as I could. And I had my hand up and said that they couldn’t see me. But of course, they knew if I had my hand up, that meant that I was crying.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 15:10

                                                    And I was just so emotional because it was a close game. I could not stop myself. One of my players did an amazing play, and one of my favorite players did an amazing play, and I cried, and then I cried when they won, I cried. The next day, when I saw the replay. I’m like, it hasn’t stopped. And it’s just ridiculous. But I can’t do that. And I never used to be like that. And I never used to be a problem. I used to get excited. And I used to yell and scream and all that kind of stuff.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 15:42

                                                    But now that has turned into excitement plus tears, tears of joy maybe, or relief, or I don’t know what they are. But it’s nuts. And I’m my first brain hemorrhage was in 2012. So it has got far better, far better. But every once in a while that catches me off guard, and I can’t do anything about it and once I start, I can’t stop.

                                                    Wake-up stroke recovery and emotional impact

                                                    Donna Miller 16:10

                                                    But yeah, and I hate that because I don’t know, I just I feel embarrassed. You know, like, if I want to go talk to my boss about something, I can feel my mouth quivering before I make I still can’t forget it. You know, and I just won’t do it, you know, or you got to judge the doctor and I just cry the whole time.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 16:32

                                                    Yeah, it’s called the pseudobulbar effect. It has a name. It’s a condition and has a name. And it’s very, very common. So I know that it’s uncomfortable because it was uncomfortable for me as well at the beginning. But then I said stuff it, man. I’ll just explain it to people if anyone wants an explanation because half because it’s not crying. It’s not a devastated, sad, depressed kind of cry. It’s just like a cry and I don’t know.

                                                    Donna Miller 17:06

                                                    No rhyme or reason.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 17:07

                                                    Yeah. And I’m not doing it because I need you to feel sorry for me, or I need a hug or anything. I’m just crying. And I don’t know why. And I’m just doing it. And if you’re uncomfortable, I’ll explain it. It’s not about you the situation or anything. It’s just what’s happening. It’s ridiculous, but it’s very common.

                                                    Donna Miller 17:27

                                                    In the beginning, my husband was very shocked by it. And he says what’s wrong? What do you cry for? I don’t know.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 17:35

                                                    Yeah, and there’s nothing bad about it, but I know it makes people feel uncomfortable, especially stroke survivors who respond to me by saying I, I am, what did they say? They say like, my emotions are all over the place and I can’t and I can’t control them. It’s a stroke thing. I don’t know. Anyhow, well, I’m glad that you’re going to go and see a whole bunch of people so your life changed pretty dramatically what were the things that you weren’t able to do after you came home from the stroke?

                                                    Donna Miller 18:09

                                                    I couldn’t cook, I couldn’t walk anywhere by myself, well I could but I would fight its fall. So nobody let me go anywhere I couldn’t drive, my memory was off you know now I could look at pictures of my children when they were younger and I was in the picture and I cannot remember it but I know it was there I can see it you know certain things that could remember just, just hit and miss, bathing myself was difficult you know, it was almost like everything was eating was difficult. And even to this day, I still have certain foods I can eat because I still have you know numbness on the right side of my throat.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 18:57

                                                    So is the swallowing sensation different?

                                                    Donna Miller 19:02

                                                    Yeah, you know, and I don’t feel some of it in so food will get stuck in the next thing you know, I’m choking you know. My vision was really bad. These eyes I hadn’t closed for six months, stayed open to blink nothing. And it’s gotten better. I mean, one day I had an episode where I think I had a mini-stroke. I’m not even sure. But I got for about three or four minutes to get to where I couldn’t do anything. I couldn’t even sit up and then my eyes closed. So now this eye works however it wants to.

                                                    Donna Miller 19:45

                                                    If I eat if I drink this eye I’m talking this eye has moved in to eat drink this I will close. The eye doctor told me about six months ago that the nerve is probably regenerated into my mouth nerves. So whenever this mouth moves this eye responds, so.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 20:10

                                                    That’s, that’s weird.

                                                    Donna Miller 20:12

                                                    Yeah. He said he had a patient that had happened. But it went into the salivary glands. So anytime his mouth watered from even thinking about food, his eyes would just flood. And I was like, thankfully that didn’t happen.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 20:31

                                                    Wow. That’s fascinating. I’ve never heard that one before. And I’ve heard a lot of things but never that one. So all right, you finally decided to go get some help. So how did it affect you emotionally? Do you feel? I mean, apart from the crime for? For whatever reason, we haven’t spoken about that. But like, how do you feel about the whole situation? How does it impact your emotions? Other than the crying for no reason?

                                                    Donna Miller 21:02

                                                    Was anger. Feel sorry for myself, I feel a lot of pity. I did it for I did that for a couple of years. Even, you know? Why me? My life is ruined. I didn’t see anything positive about it at all. Anyway, now I find very little. Every once in a while, I’ll have a good day. And I can say, Okay, well, my life has changed. But maybe this is for whatever reason supposed to go this way, you know. But I think I felt the best out of five years. When I found out last June, what kind of stroke I had finally, I had a right cerebellum stroke. And there’s a part back there this dead in, you know, according to the MRI thing was the MRI that I had.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 22:06

                                                    Yeah, and how old were you?

                                                    Donna Miller 22:10

                                                    When I found out? 49, 54 now. And so now that I have a name to put to it, I know what kind, and I’ve been kind of looking it up makes me feel a little better, I guess.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 22:27

                                                    You have more of an understanding of why things are the way they are and how you how come your body feels the way that it does. So kind of the picture is starting to come together and you’re able to connect the dots I feel like information is really important. That’s the reason why I suggested the psychologist appointment and the neuro-psych because then you become informed about your condition. And then you learn ways to get around the deficits and to adjust and to rehabilitate yourself. So people must be curious about what happened to them, where it happened, how it happened.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 23:07

                                                    I’ve specifically got a document that you can download from my website, it’s called Seven Questions to Ask Your Doctor about Your Stroke. And it’s a free PDF, there’s hundreds of people have downloaded it. And when the purpose of it is for them, for people to print it off and take it to the hospital, with their doctor at their doctor’s appointment, or the general practitioner wherever. And what they do is they just ask these seven questions. And they’re not.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 23:35

                                                    They’re not like the most amazing questions you’ve ever heard of in your life, but they are what kind of stroke did I have? And where in my brain did it happen? And then from there, we also ask, one of the questions is, who else other than you do I need to see about my stroke to help me get better? And that’s what I was missing. When I was going to the hospital and the doctors, I had no idea what to ask them or how to go about supporting my recovery and being my advocate.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 24:13

                                                    And it was really hard and I just didn’t know we used to go to appointments and then leave and I can I be said to my wife. What did they say what did we talk about? What do we have to do? Because I couldn’t also remember how to stroke I was not in there in my right mind. So people need to have an understanding of where things occurred and then what has been impacted as a result of that. It may be obvious to you that I can’t get words out but there’s more to it than just our I struggled to get words out there’s a neurological underlying causes this discussion you can have around that.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 25:01

                                                    And then if you speak to a speech therapist, you can go to them with that information and go, this is exactly what’s wrong with me. This is what I need for the rehabilitation, for example, it’s a far better place to be than if I had a stroke and I don’t know why. And I don’t know where and I’m not sure why I can’t talk and why can’t walk and why can’t go to sleep.

                                                    Donna Miller developed a post-stroke seizure disorder

                                                    Donna Miller 25:28

                                                    Yeah, because you feel lost, and you know, you don’t know what’s coming next. You don’t know what you should do or shouldn’t do, you know if you’re going to be able to do it. And that’s where I was because I didn’t know anything. So I just gave up. I didn’t want to even if I lived in the country, middle of nowhere. So what was great for me, was I went out there, I started learning to garden, I taught myself how to Can I started doing crafts and making raised and just building my world out there. And I’ve secluded the rest of the world.

                                                    Intro 26:08

                                                    If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. How long will it take to recover? Will I recover? What things should I avoid? In case I make matters worse, and doctors will explain things that, you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask. If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery.

                                                    Intro 26:38

                                                    If you’re finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you it’s called Seven Questions to Ask Your Doctor about Your Stroke. These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition, they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery. Head to the website now, recoveryafterstroke.com, and download the guide. It’s free.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 27:13

                                                    It sounds like it was therapeutic as well, though, it sounds like it was necessary at some point to be.

                                                    Donna Miller 27:20

                                                    I think so now. I live in a small town still, but I’m in town now. And it’s been an adjustment. Because I come every once in a while, I want to go back to the country. You know, all by myself, I go to work in an office with many people, which every morning is a struggle. Because I don’t want to go around people. I still want this seclusion.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 27:49

                                                    Is it something about the people? Or are the interactions difficult? Or what’s the issue?

                                                    Donna Miller 27:56

                                                    I think it’s interacting is difficult. You know, sometimes, I talk just fluidly. Sometimes you can understand everything I’m saying. Other times of sounds like I’ve been at a bar all night. You know, or I’m sitting there looking at you ask me a question. I’m looking at you and nothing comes out. And in my head. I’m repeating what I’m trying to get out. But nothing comes out. So it’s embarrassing. And then also, what was it? Well, our anniversary is September 10, 2018. I was walking in the door and all of a sudden I had a seizure.

                                                    Donna Miller 28:40

                                                    So develop a post-stroke seizure disorder. Now, luckily, I don’t convulse. I did like a blank out in it. But I’m so afraid of that happening in front of at work in front of people. That I don’t.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 28:58

                                                    Have you explained to the people that you work with that you have had a stroke in the past?

                                                    Overcoming speech challenges and isolation


                                                    Donna Miller 29:06
                                                    Over the last six months, little things have come out here and there. But when I first applied I did not tell anybody. Because I wanted I was, I was afraid that people wouldn’t hire me. Because, well, what if you can’t remember what you’re doing? You know, and so.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 29:25

                                                    Yes, makes sense. I understand that. What kind of work were you doing for yourself before this job?

                                                    Donna Miller 29:32

                                                    Well, I was a Medicaid waiver program provider. We provided group homes and foster care settings for people with intellectual disabilities. So that’s what I did before. And because I learned how to do my billing and all that kind of stuff. Now that’s what I do. I do Medicaid billing for nursing homes.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 30:02

                                                    Okay, so you don’t know about another organization. Okay. So again, I’m going to challenge your logic. So these people, deal with people who are working, who are living in nursing homes and unwell and they help them and support them. And you’ve got some deficits because of a stroke. And there’s still a sense of, they’re going to judge me and they’re not going to. And they’re going to it’s going to be embarrassing to stutter or to forget what to say or to go blank people, wouldn’t they be more likely kind of to understand the situation that some people face?

                                                    Donna Miller 30:53

                                                    You would hope so. Yeah, you would think so. But, again, in my mind, you know, and I don’t know what it is, I think it’s just a fear of almost everything, you know. And there’s no reason for it. And I know that.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 31:14

                                                    Okay. And have that been pleasantly have they surprised you? Pleasantly, every so often when you think that something went pear-shaped? Did they surprise you by not behaving the way that you thought they might? Or?

                                                    Donna Miller 31:31

                                                    Yeah, yeah, my boss says, and I have, when I noticed that she noticed things I came out and told her. And she never missed a beat with it, which I was very thankful for. Most people that work right, in my general area, they kind of know and they’ve never missed a beat. I have one lady that every time she talks to me, I get I don’t know what it is, but I can’t speak, she’ll ask me a question. And she’ll then look at me or treat me like, stupid. And in so that’s the only one though.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 32:13

                                                    Yeah, interesting. Some people, trigger people. And what’s interesting about you, though, is you’re telling me about all these challenges that you have been around people, people are gonna judge you and the rest of it, and then you come on a podcast that goes to about 50 or 60 countries. And you’re talking about all the problems that you have.

                                                    Donna Miller 32:33

                                                    Because I have to. I have to overcome. I mean, I was talking to my doctor about it a couple of weeks ago, and I said, Maybe I shouldn’t do that. Because I’m going to be embarrassed and things I have to say that there’s got to be so if I was like that, I had nobody. I’ve been very isolated. I’ve lost just about every friend I had. If I’m that way, there’s got to be another person out there like me.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 33:07

                                                    Oh, yeah. Yeah, there’s many. And they, they’re probably earlier on in the recovery, and they’re struggling like you are, and they’re looking for somebody to shine a light and go. All right, it wasn’t so bad for Donna, maybe it’s okay for me to come on the podcast and share. And I think that’s what it is. This podcast is like a therapy session for both people, me and the person that comes on. I think that’s what we get out of it more than anything. And then the people listening are also able to have like a general, a gentle introduction into what it’s like to share.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 33:42

                                                    And the benefits that both people get from the sharing, I get a benefit from hearing your story, and you get a benefit from telling your story and hearing my story. So I think that’s what the podcast does. It kind of creates a gentle way for people to overcome the fear of expressing their frustrations, challenges, concerns, and worries about this situation. And then when they come on the podcast, I think it’s a little bit it’s better than they expected. And it’s also a little bit about a burden off the shoulders. I feel like.

                                                    Donna Miller 34:23

                                                    Yeah, and I’ve thought about it and I’ve thought, you know, well it’s almost been like, for five years, like a dirty little secret. You know, I mean secluding myself and not going around people or anything and friends didn’t want to be bothered with me, that’s fine. Because I don’t want to see me anyway, you know, now it’s like, okay, I have to make a change. Five years in almost two to five. I’ve got to make a change, or I don’t want to live the rest of my life like this.

                                                    Donna Miller 34:56

                                                    I have no quality of life. And it’s like okay, I’ve said to myself, You’re going to make a change, or you’re going to end up single, alone. My marriage can’t suffer anymore from this. And so it’s like, Okay, I’ve got to figure out how to do it. And even if I say it out loud, then it’s real. The secret is gone. If that makes sense.

                                                    Friendship changes after the wake-up stroke

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 34:58

                                                    It makes complete sense. Okay. So the loss of friends is partly your fault and partly their fault because I know a lot of stroke survivors talk about friends distancing themselves. And you’re wondering where all your so-called friends went, was that part part of what happened to you? But also, did you participate in that by secluding yourself?

                                                    Donna Miller 35:50

                                                    I think in the beginning, I got I was very hurt because nobody called nobody texted, nobody came around when I came home from the hospital, nobody. And it’s like, so I would my feelings were hurt that nobody, nobody gives a damn anyway. So when they didn’t come around or call, or they waited three months or six months, it was okay. I’d already started secluding myself. So at that point, it became a two-part two street, two-way street.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 36:29

                                                    Okay, but there was a disconnect that you felt from people who you expected or thought would turn up. And they didn’t? Do you have any sense of what might be behind that? Not that I intimately know anything about your relationship with these people. But do you have a sense? Was it like, an inability to, for them to kind of grasp the concept? Is it that you hit it so well? Or pretend that everything was okay, was it a combination of those? What do you think was behind that disconnect?

                                                    Donna Miller 37:01

                                                    I think I think a lot of the day didn’t know how to react, or how to respond to me. Because like I said, I was very independent and worked all the time. I came and went, I mean, I was always everywhere. And all of a sudden I’m sitting in one spot, day after day, you know? I don’t talk as well. I mean, my mouth was down here. I mean, it was almost six months before my face picked up to where I mean, I could still see it. But other people a lot of people don’t, you know? So I think people don’t know how to respond, or what to say. And it made them feel uncomfortable, as well as I feel uncomfortable.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 37:53

                                                    Yeah, a lot of that is not really about them. It’s not really about you, it’s about them. It’s about their inability to grasp the concept to know what to say. It challenges their mortality and their idea about life and how it’s fragile, and it can be taken away. So it’s a big challenge for a lot of people on the periphery of this. And then it’s like, maybe it’s better if I don’t turn up because I don’t know how to behave around somebody who’s had a stroke. And maybe they don’t know anyone who’s had a stroke before. And yeah, it’s ridiculous.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 38:34

                                                    But I know I’m kind of justifying it for them. But it’s the way that I went around, in my mind trying to come to terms with some of the people that I thought would turn up who didn’t. People who I turned up for in the past for them when I thought it was important for me to be around them. And then I kind of got through several years of sort of being upset, hating on them and all that kind of stuff and then kind of realized that really what had happened was the best thing they did was they didn’t turn up.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 39:17

                                                    Because they might have made it worse, or uncomfortable, or made it about them or god knows what and it would have been really difficult to have them around during that time when I needed to recover. So I forgive them now, and it’s okay that I don’t see them. And honestly, I don’t know if I would have behaved any better if the situation was reversed if somebody I knew had a stroke at the age of 37 the kind of guy that I was before my stroke. I don’t know if I would have turned up and been supportive or helpful.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 39:57

                                                    I like to think I would but it’s not guaranteed that I would have been. So I don’t want to judge them too harshly. However many stroke survivors talk about how friendships change rapidly. And it’s hard.

                                                    Donna Miller 40:15

                                                    It seems like all relationships change.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 40:18

                                                    Yes, they do.

                                                    Donna Miller 40:20

                                                    I mean, from your kids to your spouse, there’s every relationship changes.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 40:27

                                                    Yep. And there is a mourning phase. In that, for me, there was a mourning phase, it was like, okay. You are different, so everyone is treating it differently. But your identity hasn’t caught up yet. You’re still your old identity. And they’re still. And they’ve shifted very quickly because they see the ill person. But the ill person hasn’t been able to change from being the person before the stroke a week ago or six weeks ago. And yeah, everyone changes around you and you haven’t caught up yet.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 41:02

                                                    I feel like I haven’t caught up for a little while. And still today, you know, it’s nearly next year will be 10 years since the brain surgery, and 12 years since the initial blade. And still, it’s impacting my life in positive ways through the podcast and the book that I’ve written and all the things that I’m doing, but then in negative ways, because I still am interacting with stroke deficits around people who are quote, unquote, normal. And it’s so hard because you can’t tell that I’ve had a stroke when you see me walk, talk, or anything. And it’s so hard to try and get people to get off my back sometimes just to give me a break. You know?

                                                    Donna Miller coping with stroke and identity changes


                                                    Donna Miller 42:02
                                                    Oh, yeah. I still don’t know who I am. Exactly. You know, and I’m like, I used to ask yourself, what do you want to be when you grow up? You know? Yeah. And it’s like, I don’t know. I don’t even know who I am. I know more now than I did. I did a year ago. You know, and it wasn’t until probably a year ago that I even cared, No. Because I was so angry.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 42:34

                                                    Yeah. Where you mentally this might sound like a strange question, and I’m not probably asking the right way. But where you mentally kind of stable before that people often who’ve had a stroke will tell me that they had depression, anxiety, that kind of stuff for many years, and it’s kind of escalated it, a couple of people have told me that it’s got better, or change that or the anxiety went away, or the depression went away. So that’s a couple of weird things that you hear. But how will your How was your mental health? Before stroke how would you describe yourself? And how did that change after the stroke?

                                                    Donna Miller 43:12

                                                    Well, I’ve never had an issue that is anxiety. I’ve never had that issue. Depression. When I was younger, I did you know, but then once I got older, and I had kids, I mean, I didn’t I didn’t start having children. I was 30. You know? So once I started having kids, I opened my own business. I kind of got out of that, you know, I was busy. Busy would like, didn’t have time to think about anything back there. And I think that because it does run in my family. You know, depression does run on my mom says family, I think that the depression did escalate after the stroke.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 44:03

                                                    Yep. And there’s a lot of changes going on for you. So if you’re having kids in your 30s, and you’re 54 your kids don’t need you anymore. Much. They’re grown. So not only is your identity changing, because you’ve had a stroke, you’re not working the way that you were before you’re not as independent as you were. You have a couple of stroke deficits, but you also your role as a mum, and a wife has changed all at the same time.

                                                    Donna Miller 44:36

                                                    Yeah, because about the time that I had the stroke, my daughter had just left home three months prior, and my son was there. And but he was still grown, you know, and I was 49. And he was born, you know, three days before I turned 30. So He was 19 not random up there. And so yeah, I was already feeling lost anyway. Empty Nest, I guess. Yeah. And then to be like this.

                                                    Donna Miller 45:17

                                                    And my daughter wasn’t there. And I was thinking, I don’t want my son, I want my daughter. You know, I’m not wanting, I was thinking, I’m thankful for him. Don’t get me wrong. I’m very thankful for him. But I just felt like that was a role girls should have done. I’m a woman, you know. And so, yeah, all of that is, was all at the same time.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 45:46

                                                    Yeah, it’s a lot to handle, it’s a lot for anyone to handle and try and come to terms with so suddenly. And it makes sense that retreating was, your way of coping because it sounds like it was your way of coping. If I go into nowhere, and I’m around, nobody, I can just be me and just sort of settle into this new version of me. And it’s therapeutic, being on the land, gardening and doing all those things, and not having car noises and sirens and all the hustle and bustle of a city. So it sounds like you’re guided well.

                                                    Donna Miller 46:31

                                                    I loved it. You know. I hated to leave it. You know. But of course, you know, like I said, we gave it the business, everything because I was pretty much the only one that could do a lot of the stuff. And so it was like I couldn’t handle it anymore. I tried. But I couldn’t I just could not keep up, you know. And so I had to admit that it’s over. Yeah. And so we had a house in Tennessee and a house in Texas, who again, live in two places where we’re gonna live. So we decided on Tennessee, which is in town, not just a little bitty small town, not like a city. You know, I still go out there and garden in my backyard. And stuff like that. So.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 47:20

                                                    But it’s close to the services. Is it good that there are people around?

                                                    Donna Miller 47:24

                                                    Sometimes, sometimes not. I mean, they don’t they don’t say much to me. You know, I only got about four neighbors out here. There’s one lady across the street who’ll talk to you. Every day you know, she’s busy. I’m busy. But since I’ve been back to work I’m still so tired all the time. That a lot of days, I just don’t have any energy when I get home. I have nothing left for anyone or anything. Not even cooking.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 47:56

                                                    I know that feeling.

                                                    Donna Miller 47:58

                                                    So it’s either work or not. What do you do?

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 48:05

                                                    Yeah, I mean, when I wasn’t at work, I was at home and I was cooking and cleaning and doing all the things that needed to be done around the house as much as I could, my wife would come home at around 6 pm My kids would come home after school at the time. So I had a fair amount of the day to just chill out and do as little as possible, and then have enough energy to prepare dinner so we could at least all eat together. So that was something I looked forward to. And then when I went to work, yeah, I’d come home at around 3:30/4 o’clock.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 48:40

                                                    And then I’d be wiped out wiped out. I’d have to sit on the couch for a couple of hours. And even then nobody had come home. While the kids weren’t helping Well, teenagers thought pains in the butt. Yeah, my wife wouldn’t be home yet. And I would have to kind of motivate myself around 5:00/5:30. After I’d been home for an hour and a half sitting down doing nothing.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 49:04

                                                    I’d have to motivate myself to start preparing dinner, and try and put something together. And then the key was to have dinner done early so that I could be sitting on the couch by seven o’clock or something so I could ease into going to bed and sleeping because yeah, the battery was empty and drained to zero. No, no ability to do anything. I remember having a lot of tasks to do like emails, for example, after dinner, I’d sit down and do those emails and there was no hope in hell, I would be able to sit down and look at a computer screen and send an email.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 49:46

                                                    It doesn’t matter how urgent or how important it was. It just didn’t happen because I’m not sure if the word is painful, but it was hard to sit through it and get it done. And it was that the price I had to pay was too much or wouldn’t I wouldn’t. It wasn’t beneficial to my health and well-being to sit down and write an email. It sounds bizarre, but that’s how bad it felt at some stage.

                                                    Managing work-related stress and anxiety

                                                    Donna Miller 50:19

                                                    Yeah. And that’s got it the way it is for me. On the days that I work, I don’t even expect that. And now I’m I’m struggling with, okay. Oh, all the doctors hate it. Why aren’t you on disability? Well, because, one, you have to wait what a year or two sometimes to get it? You know? How do you live till then? What do you do? And, and then I, you know, I make things now, you know, and I’ve sold them. I’ve taught classes since I’ve had a stroke. Oh, what do you know, I do wreaths and paint. paper crafter does several different things.

                                                    Donna Miller 51:04

                                                    But I used to teach wreaths class, wreath making classes, you know, before I came to this state, so I’ve thought, you know, maybe this is just too much for me. Because it’s such a struggle to get up and get there. And then it’s so hard sometimes to sit there. hour, one hour. In the car. I have two huge computer screens, and my vision has gone blurry. Yep. I’ve just come now I do have anxiety sometimes now, which I never had before. It’ll just my heart is pounding. It’s like, Okay, I gotta walk away from it. I gotta go outside, you know, yes. And no thought, maybe it’s time for me to figure something else out.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 51:51

                                                    Yeah, set up a little side hustle, something that fills your heart with joy and allows you to tune out of your head and go into the space of creating and delivering something amazing. I remember with work, I went through a similar thing, again, to computer screens, a lot of lights over the top 30 People in the room. Noise overwhelmed the whole kind of thing. And I was never employed by somebody from the age of about 2008. I was self-employed. So by 37, I had been working for myself for about nine or 10 years. And then I tried to go back to work two or three times in the first few years after the initial blade.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 52:40

                                                    And I had three bleeds. So every time I went back to work, something else happened and then something else happened. And then I had brain surgery. So for three years, I was on this roller coaster of slowly improving and then going downhill slowly improving and then going downhill, and then brain surgery. And then after the brain surgery, about a year after I couldn’t work for myself anymore, I was completely gone. So I had to go and work in an office for three years. What was interesting was how, even though that was difficult, my boss understood, so they kind of protected me a little bit.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 53:17

                                                    So if I had bad days where I wasn’t productive or wasn’t getting anything done, and I needed to go into the courtyard outside or sort of retreat away from my, from my desk, they kind of turned a blind eye. And they didn’t bug me too much. But what that allowed me to do was see a progression in my improvement. So I went from being able to look at the monitors for an hour or two, to by the end of it three out of three years later, I was full-time doing all the work that I needed to do with very rare days where I was struggling badly.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 53:57

                                                    And if I was I just took a sick day, I just didn’t come to work those days. So it kind of rehabilitated me. What was interesting was, that it was a brain-dead job, but took a brand new job where I almost didn’t have to do any of the thinking. Therefore, waking up getting in the car driving to work, and going to work was also part of the rehabilitation because it was a routine that most of the time I couldn’t get out of somebody else was relying on me to turn up whereas when I was working for myself, I could easily just say well, I’m not going to work next week again, or today or tomorrow or whatever. So it kind of kept me honest and made me push through those barriers.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 54:42

                                                    Those are really difficult barriers. Oh my god, I can’t think straight I can’t see straight. There’s too much noise. And I did I brought to work headphones that were noise canceling and covered my entire ear, but I never used to play Music just used to wear them. And it used to just calm down the noise in the place. And it used to settle my nervous system down, just like you hear some autistic kids do. And on top of my head, there were fluorescent light tubes, which went out, they stopped working about a year after I’d started there, and they brought the maintenance going to come in and repair them.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 55:27

                                                    But I asked him not to change the lightbulbs and put fresh ones in. So he didn’t. As a result, I didn’t have these annoying fluorescent lights over my head. And also I could decrease, the room noise with my headphones. And it made such a massive difference to my ability to be productive at work and to get through a whole day.

                                                    Finding a new path in life for Donna Miller

                                                    Donna Miller 55:53

                                                    I’ve gotten to where I use headphones. But I put music on because I hear everybody talk and talk and talk. And my brain is trying to get all over the place, instead of being here. And so for me to get work done, I have to pick up from and I’ve even thought about I need to be sitting over there somewhere, Mama. So, yes. But I don’t want to be asked that. Because then I’ll think, Oh, she’s stuck up or doesn’t want to be around us. No, it has to do with me being able to stay right here in the moment. You know, do what I got to do it. Remember what I gotta do?

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 56:32

                                                    Yeah. Yep. So headphones, do help a little bit of music get rid of all of the multiple different noises that are coming around and just make it one and helps you to achieve the same thing that I was achieving, which was to sort of calm things down a little bit and focus on. Yeah, that’s good. And your husband? Is he employed? What kind of work does he do? How did he become involved in this whole situation? How did that work out?

                                                    Donna Miller 57:07

                                                    Well, he’s, he does remodeling type thing, stuff. So he works for himself. We worked together when I was self-employed. And then we both had to kind of figure things out, you know. And he went to work for him, he’s still working for himself. And he’s just finishing up a house, and then he’ll move on to the next to the next job. And during the middle of all this, my husband got cancer. So now, he’s changed to some degree. But his mindset has changed, because he was like me, work work work all about making money, you know, and, you know, like we’re taught to do is when my generation got to have a career, you make money work.

                                                    Donna Miller 58:04

                                                    And now it seems like, you know, it’s time, it’s time to think about what’s important in life, not about what money can buy you because you can’t take it with you when you go anyway. Both of us have had situations where it’s time for us just to slow down and think about what’s important and downsize. And, of course, part of my brain says, Yeah, sounds good. The other part of my brain is, but I don’t know how to I don’t know how to do that. You know what I mean? Yeah.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 58:40

                                                    If you’ve been on one track for 50 years, then you have to relearn a lot of things. One of them is how to get off the track and choose a new one that’s going to be good, useful, and supportive. The right one? I tried to get out of being self-employed. And I couldn’t do it. My business suffered, and my clients didn’t get the kind of service or support that they should have my business, a property, a property maintenance business, we paint houses and offices and what have you in buildings. And then I went to get a job for somebody else. And that kind of worked, but being inside taking orders, not that. Not that it’s that bad.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 59:34

                                                    It wasn’t that bad, but I just couldn’t cope. After three years, I’ve tried to find a new way to get the business up and running and brought somebody on and made them a partner and without that, it wouldn’t exist now. So I had to find a new way so I don’t do as much of the painting and all of the stuff on the tools as I used to. I do more of the off-the-tool stuff. And then I do To help out when necessary on the tools, a lot of quoting, chasing money, paying bills, that kind of stuff. So, whereas before I was doing it all, on my accounts, bills, chasing money, quotes, picking up materials, setting up staff, painting, a whole lot of everything.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:27

                                                    And there just weren’t enough hours in the day to do all the things that I did. If I went back to that system, it could last another 12 minutes, it’d be terrible. So you do kind of stumble and fumble and find a way eventually to a path that suits but you’ve got to go down the wrong path a few times as well. You got to get lost and then go on. No, this is not what I expected. I need to find another way. And now that you’ve made the decision, it sounds like you’re more equipped. You’re way more equipped to get to the other side than you were previously. How’s your husband’s health? How’s it coming?

                                                    Recovery and overcoming fears

                                                    Donna Miller 1:01:17

                                                    Well, he’s good right now. He’s got, he’s still got a lot of side effects from the radiation and all that stuff. And but he’s still, he used to be, like me, work work work. He could work with a younger man. And he’s 61 and when he could work a 20-year-old in the ground, I mean, he just way he was now one o’clock, he needs a nap. You know? Yeah. But, you know, I think he’s, hopefully it’d be okay.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:02:01

                                                    That’s the thing about stroke and all that other stuff. Life still happens around you. So even though your head’s not working properly, and your body’s not working properly, you still have to deal with life, the normal, day-to-day everyday parts of life.

                                                    Donna Miller 1:02:20

                                                    And I think that once things started happening in a life that I had to start dealing with, that’s when I decided, okay, I don’t want to live this way anymore. I want to have a rewarding life, whatever that may be. You know, and so for me to do that, I have to deadlift, the little girl sit down that had a stroke and, and learn to talk to her and understand her and live with her versus fighting all the time, so to speak.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:02:52

                                                    Yeah. Yes, versus private. Yep. Very true. As we’re coming to the end of this episode, I wanted to ask you a couple of more, three more questions before we end that. I’ve tried to make a habit of asking everybody these questions, but only recently. So the first question is, what was the hardest thing about stroke?

                                                    Donna Miller 1:03:18

                                                    Loneliness, very lonely. Because even though you could be in a room full of people, nobody truly understands half of what you’re saying. They might smile and not act like to do but they just don’t understand how hard it is some days to get up and go take that shower. How hard it is some days just to say hello to somebody, you know. That was the worst, being so lonely.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:55

                                                    What has stroke taught you?

                                                    Donna Miller 1:04:03

                                                    I’m not invincible. You know, that’s one thing. I used to think, Oh, I’ll be around them hundred I don’t know so much about that anymore. You know, it’s taught me that it is important to do what you enjoy in life. Enjoy your life. Because you don’t know for one minute the next one is going to be gone. You know, and don’t do a job just because you got to do it. Whether you make a lot of money or not.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:41

                                                    Yeah, people are listening now that on on our journey, there may be a little bit earlier on and they haven’t dared to face some of the fears and overcome some of the challenges and talk about their stroke. What would you tell somebody listening right now who’s going through what you were going through? What do you want to say to them?

                                                    Donna Miller 1:05:05

                                                    I’d say make Google your best friend. YouTube and Google, because that’s what I ended up having to do. Because I didn’t have anybody to teach you. You know, nobody knew I didn’t know. I looked up things I, you know, read dates. I looked up, and I thought, You know what, maybe I’ll write a book, even if I don’t post it. I’ll get all of it out there. On paper out of my head, you know, don’t wait. Don’t be embarrassed and don’t wait five years, or four years, or three years to say, Hey, this is me. Whoever may disagree. You know,

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:53

                                                    Lovely, very worried.

                                                    Donna Miller 1:05:54

                                                    Find somebody, by somebody. Even if it’s pinned out on the internet, somebody that can relate to what you’re saying?

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:06:04

                                                    Yeah. That’s brilliant. Donna, thank you so much for reaching out and overcoming some of your fears. And joining me on the podcast.

                                                    Donna Miller 1:06:14

                                                    Thank you.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:06:15

                                                    Well, thanks again for joining us on today’s episode, remember to grab your copy of chapter one free of charge, you can just go to recoveryafterstroke.com/book Fill out the form and then you will receive it in your email a few moments later.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:06:32

                                                    As always, to learn more about my guests, including links to their social media and other pages, and to download a full transcript of the entire interview. Please go to recoveryafterstroke.com/episodes. Thank you to all those who have already left the show a review it means the world to me and you are helping others in need to find this type of content. And hopefully what that does is make their life a little better. If you haven’t left a review and would like to do so the best way to do it is to go to Spotify and iTunes and leave a five-star review and a few words about what the show means to you.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:07:12

                                                    If you’re watching on YouTube, comment below the video I love seeing people’s comments and I tried to respond to all of them who liked the episode to get notifications of future episodes, subscribe to the show, and hit the notification bell. Thanks again for being here and listening. I appreciate you see you on the next episode.

                                                    Intro 1:07:35

                                                    Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals’ opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast are the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed all content on this website at any linked blog, podcast or video material controlled this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis, the content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing.

                                                    Intro 1:08:09

                                                    It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice. The information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances, or health objectives. Do not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose treat, cure, or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional.

                                                    Intro 1:08:32

                                                    Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional your doctor or your rehabilitation program based on our content if you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition, please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional, if you are experiencing a health emergency or think you might be called triple zero if in Australia or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance or go to the nearest hospital emergency department medical information changes constantly.

                                                    Intro 1:08:56

                                                    While we aim to provide current quality information and our content we did not provide any guarantees and assume no legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, currency, or completeness of the content. If you choose to rely on any information within our content, you do so solely at your own risk. We are careful with the links we provide however third-party links from our website are followed at your own risk and we are not responsible for any information you find there.

                                                    The post I Had A Stroke While Asleep | Donna Miller appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

                                                    1 hr 10 min
                                                  • Vertigo Turns Out To Be STROKE – Joy Alliy

                                                    Joy Alliy was a lawyer who had persistent dizzy spells that were misdiagnosed as vertigo before being diagnosed as an ischemic stroke. Joy was 42 years old.

                                                    Instagram

                                                    Highlights:

                                                    02:05 Introduction

                                                    02:42 Vertigo Turns Out To Be STROKE
                                                    09:31 Running a business after a stroke
                                                    21:02 Stroke recovery and hospital experience in Tanzania
                                                    31:18 Stroke survivor’s experiences with support and hidden deficits
                                                    35:33 Dealing with anxiety and depression
                                                    42:36 Overcoming challenges and finding community after a stroke
                                                    47:15 PTSD, stroke, and therapy
                                                    52:53 Sensory overload and its impact on daily life
                                                    1:00:27 Stroke recovery and self-improvement

                                                    Transcript:

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 0:00

                                                    What motivates you to come on to the podcast? What’s the point of it?

                                                    Joy Alliy 0:04

                                                    Well, I’ve been on other podcasts too. But this one, I felt that because of you I wanted to reach out specifically to stroke survivors as well, especially the new ones. So they can know that they’re not alone. You can recover, it might not be 100%, but you can recover. And being in a wheelchair doesn’t mean that it’s the end of the world, you can still do so much in a wheelchair.

                                                    Intro 0:33

                                                    This is the Recovery after Stroke podcast. With Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after stroke.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 0:46

                                                    Hello, and welcome to the Recovery after Stroke podcast. As mentioned in the last few episodes, I’m putting the final touches on my book and have made the first chapter available for free for anyone who is curious to check it out and wants to grab a copy. If you go to recoveryafterstroke.com/book and fill out the form, you will receive the first chapter in your email a few moments later.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:12

                                                    The book is called “The Unexpected Way the Restrict Became the Best Thing That Happened” and it took four years from concept to completion. Now in the final stages, it will be available for sale in about six weeks from now. So go along to recoveryafterstroke.com/book. Grab your copy of the first chapter free today. If you are a stroke survivor with a story to share about your experience. Come and join me on the show.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:37

                                                    The interviews are not scripted, you do not have to plan for them. All you need to do to qualify is be a stroke survivor who wants to share your story. If you are a researcher who wants to share the findings of a recent study or you’re looking to recruit people into studies, you might also reach out and be a guest on my show. If you have a commercial product that you would like to promote that is related to supporting stroke survivors to recover there is also a path for you to join me on a sponsored episode of the show.

                                                    Introduction – Joy Alliy

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 2:05

                                                    So whoever you are, just go to recoveryafterstroke.com/contact. Fill out the form explaining briefly which category you belong to. And I will respond with more details about how we can connect via Zoom. Now this is episode 272. And my guest today is Joy Alliy, who was a self-employed lawyer who had the signs of stroke for several months before she went to the hospital. Nonetheless, was given the misdiagnosis with vertigo.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 2:37

                                                    Joy Alliy, welcome to the podcast.

                                                    Joy Alliy 2:39

                                                    Thank you Bill for having me.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 2:40

                                                    Tell me a little bit about what happened to you.

                                                    Vertigo Turns Out To Be STROKE

                                                    Joy Alliy 2:42

                                                    Where should I start? Well, okay, basically all this happened during the pandemic. And first of all, It started around February 2020, I went to a funeral because I lived in Tanzania. So this is from Africa to Scotland. I lived in Tanzania and in February one of my friends from uni passed away, they had a heart attack at 42 now sorry from high school. So I went to Kenya for the funeral. In Kenya the funerals in Africa the funerals are not like in the UK where they are just all subdued there’s a lot of crying they are just very sad was a lot to take in because there were children there crying and everything.

                                                    Joy Alliy 3:29

                                                    So I came back home and then I continued working and then around May, I started having dizzy spells. One day I just woke up and I had the middle of the night and I had a really bad day I woke up and had like a spell that was like feeling dizzy hot and cold, feeling nausea, feeling like I was going to throw up. And you know, because I didn’t during the pandemic I thought maybe it was going to be to do with to do with maybe COVID The thing is, I was extremely careful because I’m asthmatic.

                                                    Joy Alliy 4:00

                                                    So I made sure I was self-isolating. And I’ve done all this stuff I can’t get COVID now. So the next day it calmed down. Then I continued working in the more I continued working the dizzy spells continued. And so I just thought you know what, I’ll go to the hospital. So I went to the hospital and they referred me to an EMT specialist. The specialist looked at my nose and they said that I had vertigo so they just gave me anti-vertigo medication. So I continued working but then I continued having the dizzy spells to the point where I just had to stop driving as I had to take taxis to work.

                                                    Joy Alliy 4:47

                                                    At one point I even went out one time when I was driving it almost crashed my car when I was trying to park. This was in the parking lot of the building, but then I just thought there was something wrong. And so this time my partner was Scottish. He was in Scotland and I told him all this stuff and he was like, I’m so sorry, this is happening. I wish I could be there. And of course, at that time, the restrictions on traveling in Scotland so you couldn’t leave the country.

                                                    Joy Alliy 5:19

                                                    And luckily, you know, around around August that’s when the that’s when the, the air pass, the airways were like open so that you could fly. So my partner decided to come stay with me. And when he was there one day, he went to see a friend of his who was just sitting at home watching TV. And basically, I lost my vision temporarily. Because I used to wear glasses, I wear glasses, and the time was very important. I thought maybe there was something wrong with my vision. So I made a note to like, maybe I could see a, would call it opticians.

                                                    Joy Alliy 5:56

                                                    As I continued, continue that, and then another dizzies will happen and what’s going on, there must be something wrong. And then and then one day, about five days before the stroke. My father was cooking me a meal and I vomited as I was going on, um, I mean, is it food poisoning? What’s going on? Am I having these things? Then the last time I had the dizzy spell, I was actually in the pool with my nephew. My nephew was six. And I was teaching him how to swim in the pool.

                                                    Joy Alliy 6:27

                                                    And I didn’t want to scare him. So I just got off and I sat on the edge and we’re going to come down. The next morning I had I had this I woke up the next morning, was supposed to go to an island with my partner woke me up at 7:30 to go to the so we could go in had a stroke. So I forgot to say that the night before. I got up at 4  a.m. to go to the bathroom.

                                                    Joy Alliy 6:51

                                                    When I woke up, I decided when I went to the bathroom, I switched on the light and I couldn’t see I looked in the mirror because you know, people just look in the mirror like just normal I looked at it and I just couldn’t see my reflection at all. Well, I must say because if my brain told me like, there’s nothing to see here. And it came out.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 7:12

                                                    You could see walking, walking through the house.

                                                    Joy Alliy 7:15

                                                    But could see myself walking through. But then when I took it I looked at it my brain said, We don’t want you to see this. I don’t know what happened. And then I just tried to I just tried to make a noise and nothing came out. And I thought you were having a bad dream. And so I just went back and I went back to bed. Then the next morning when I woke up, that’s when the stroke could happen. I think the stroke started happening around 4  a.m., so that time the stroke was happening and I didn’t know and I went back to sleep.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 7:45

                                                    So did you work out what the underlying cause was?

                                                    Joy Alliy 7:50

                                                    They looked there and they couldn’t find anything and, when he came here, they did all those tests to do with what do you call it? The bubble test to check if there was if I had a hole in my heart. They checked my atrial fibrillation, they checked arteries, everything. And I’m not underweight, I don’t have high blood pressure. I don’t have what you call it. I am not diabetic, none of those things. I got a stroke I was 49 kilos. And then obviously, and I was always, I was always, I was always working out. I worked out four times a week, I did kickboxing and I believe it must be stressed because of the nature of my job.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 8:42

                                                    Okay. Can we talk about the nature of your job? What were the events like leading up to the stroke?

                                                    Joy Alliy 8:49

                                                    Well, I am a lawyer. I’m a corporate lawyer. And I run my firm. During the pandemic, you can imagine it was difficult. All these, all the companies representing the all grade much trying to find ways to keep their stuff going. At the same time, I had to deal with just what I had to do. And so and my staff, some of them didn’t want to go to the government offices, I was running around trying to sort out everything out. And family wasn’t taking COVID seriously, or having panic attacks because of that. So all this stuff just kept building and building up.

                                                    Joy Alliy 8:57

                                                    And how many people do employ?

                                                    Joy Alliy running a business after a stroke

                                                    Joy Alliy 9:31

                                                    I used to employ three people. I say used to because I recently closed my business after five years, but before that, I used to be I used to work in a law firm for about, for about 12 years. Then I decided to have my business thinking that things would be better it will become, but it’s worse.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 10:04

                                                    Yeah, it’s hard hard run a business and manage people to keep on top of everything.

                                                    Joy Alliy 10:11

                                                    It is very hard.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 10:13

                                                    As a result.

                                                    Joy Alliy 10:14

                                                    you can hear people saying that so when you hear people say that they want to start a business, you’re like, okay, good luck.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 10:20

                                                    I completely understand that. Tell me about when you decided to decide to stop the business to close it down. Was it? What’s related to the whole situation? But is it because you have deficits as well that makes it hard for you? Or was it more of a lifestyle?

                                                    Joy Alliy 10:45

                                                    Yes. Yes, because I have, I have cognitive issues, I have aphasia. And aphasia has to do with expressive aphasia. And of course, it was really neat to be able to express yourself on the bat, just like that bat problems are spelling, grammar, and numbers. How am I supposed to be with clients, when I can’t do my simple math properly? And also, I decided, after my stroke, six months after my stroke, I went back to work. Six months.

                                                    Joy Alliy 11:21

                                                    When I went back, I couldn’t even read, I couldn’t even read the legislation was like, it was just like, the numbers, the words were just like all over the place. And it took me some time to learn how to read again, properly. And then at the same time, so then, when that happened, I decided to basically, first suspend my lessons. Because it is not a good idea to continue practicing when you have a stroke.

                                                    Joy Alliy 11:47

                                                    I didn’t want to be sued for any I didn’t want to perfect any lag measures. Then I suspended it. And then my staff were associates, they will continue the firm. Then because I wasn’t there, we weren’t getting any clients. Because I was doing everything marketing, and running the business. I was wearing so many hats. Because they weren’t doing enough marketing. We started losing and weren’t making any money.

                                                    Joy Alliy 12:11

                                                    So I was just paying salaries, but no money was coming in. So I just thought, you know what, there’s no point in. So because I was recovering, and I was trying to recover and run the business at the same time. It wasn’t working. Yes, yeah. And doing it remotely.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 12:31

                                                    And doing it remotely. It’s that trying to run the business and recover at the same time kind of doesn’t work together, you have to do one or the other. And after you’ve had a stroke, you can’t run the business the same way. And it does get in the way of the recovery if you focus on other things instead of your recovery. I’m interested to hear about your journey in kickboxing.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 12:55

                                                    I think that kickboxing is not necessary in life, that you do not need to do kickboxing. I see people perform the sport. They’re athletes, they’re amazing. They can take a beating, they can give a beating. But I don’t understand how people can get involved in it at all. Just seems so bizarre to me. But tell me about your journey with kickboxing to what extent were you involved?

                                                    Joy Alliy 13:22

                                                    Well, when I first started as a lawyer in one of the firms, of course, it was because when you’re doing it, they just give you so much work. It was just becoming too much for me and I was getting so stressed I started getting problems with my back. And I was even I was getting carpal tunnel syndrome. All these back issues back muscle spasms. And so when I went to see a doctor in South Africa, they said when she was porters relaxing, and you know your kickbox on your kickboxing your body has to be completely relaxed.

                                                    Joy Alliy 13:58

                                                    Also one or the other reason why I chose kickboxing was because I wanted to learn how to defend myself. Because I had issues in the past with an ex. So it’s okay, to combine two different things. Self-defense and Saturday we’ll find relaxing. Also, when you’re punching the bag, if somebody annoys you at work, you just take it out on the punching bag later on. And the next day you’re in there.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 14:24

                                                    Okay, that completely changes my view on kickboxing then. So it’s, it was a sport, it was relaxing, it enabled you to take your frustrations out. Did you perform? Did you compete at all did you get to the stage where you competed?

                                                    Joy Alliy 14:40

                                                    No, as you can imagine competing and coming to work with a black guy and wearing a suit. Those who don’t work. So I didn’t I didn’t get to the competition level but I was quite good. And I think that helped me because when I was at the hospital when they were trying to lift my leg to see how I was doing, I was quite flexible, and so they were surprised. They asked, they asked my sister, is she a ballerina? And she said, said no, she kickbox.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 15:08

                                                    So you had real long, long reach if you kicked like?

                                                    Joy Alliy 15:12

                                                    yes, yes. And people say I have a mean left hook.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 15:21

                                                    So are you? Are you left-handed or right-handed?

                                                    Joy Alliy 15:25

                                                    Right handed. I don’t even know how that happened.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 15:28

                                                    Well, so what you do is you use your right hand to set, up set up the punch, and then.

                                                    Joy Alliy 15:35

                                                    Yes, people think it’s gonna be right and then it’s just left.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 15:42

                                                    I especially started to struggle with martial arts kickboxing, and UFC, watching particularly after my brain surgery. And I had brain surgeries, and my head was tender. Even now I’m talking about it. And it feels like I have to touch my head, you know, to make it feel, I’m not sure to protect it. As soon as I had brain surgery and came home, and then I was very cautious about my head, and people touching my head, I just couldn’t understand why somebody else would willingly get into a ring and allow other people to try and hit them in the head.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 16:20

                                                    It was just so bizarre to me. I couldn’t understand I still can’t, and I cringe watching those types of sports. But of course, I appreciate the athleticism. I mean, and the agility and the absolute just amazing human ability I do I appreciate it. I just can’t watch it. The joy it just makes me squirm and feel uncomfortable.

                                                    Joy Alliy 16:47

                                                    It’s not for everyone, but I still watch it all the time and I still box as part of my physics.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 16:54

                                                    Okay. And how often how many days a week were you, were you at the gym?

                                                    Joy Alliy 17:03

                                                    There four times a week and during the weekends is do yoga and swimming.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 17:08

                                                    Okay. Do you feel like that had a lot to do? All of the stuff that you did to take care of yourself? Do you feel like it had a massive role in your recovery? That it’s a ploy too.

                                                    Joy Alliy 17:25

                                                    To a certain extent. it did, because I also ate well, and all those things. And in terms of I think it helped a lot in terms of the physio because people are surprised at how much I’m able to lift. After all, I also do a little bit of weightlifting as part of my physio, and people are surprised how much I can lift, I’m only 5 foot 2. So tiny person lifting quite a lot of weight, they’re surprised and it’s all because of the conditioning that my body had before.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 17:54

                                                    Yeah, I think it’s a good foundation to have if you’re fit. And you put a lot of effort into maintaining your body and you’re eating well and you’re doing all those things, creating just the right bit of a better environment to sort of start from in your recovery.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 18:14

                                                    Rather than having an environment that’s been unhealthy in the past and feels like you already gave yourself a real positive place to go from and you were doing it to protect your health you’re doing it to look after yourself and to stress less than to make sure you didn’t get carpal tunnel syndrome and all these things. So isn’t it interesting that exercise is prescribed to avoid certain things? And also prescribed after a stroke because it helps with rehabilitation and helps the brain recover.

                                                    Joy Alliy 18:54

                                                    It is and so I’m surprised when people say like they find it difficult or people who are I say normal or difficult to exercise and like guys, it’s going to help you in the long run. might find it painful now but in the long run you enjoy it and help you even if you have an injury it helped you write a good base for your recovery.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 19:16

                                                    How did you go back to the gym? Did you find it easy? Was it difficult to go back after the stroke? Did it feel like it was harder? How did that go?

                                                    Joy Alliy 19:27

                                                    Well basically because what happened is I came here to Scotland and then I had a different physical home back home. So the physical heavy is a sports physio. So here’s a little some equipment there and so I use a lot has also been to the gym a couple of times with my partner but I can’t go it independently. I think it’s it’s probably a confidence issue more than anything.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 19:53

                                                    And you go to the gym with your partner because he helps you, he spots you with the weights Oh, he’s just your sparring partner?

                                                    Joy Alliy 20:03

                                                    No, he’s just there so that I know I’m coughing, there’s somebody there, but I’m gonna start going on my own soon as a place to go on my own all the time, is to go to the gym at 6 in the morning.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 20:15

                                                    Is it because you need somebody there in case something goes wrong?

                                                    Joy Alliy 20:21

                                                    No. Just somebody there to just say, you’re fine, we’ll be fine. Because you know, like, when is the first time you go to the gym Oh, when you get a bit nervous, especially in the past, like my gym back home, it was like, Sorry, buddy, there was a lot of testosterone in there. When you went in, it was like all these men started looking at you all these things.

                                                    Joy Alliy 20:45

                                                    Back then because I used to kickbox and they knew that I kickbox as soon as they walked in, they just didn’t mess with me. Then when I came here, it was still that so that confidence disappeared. And so when I came here just like still a bit nervous, worried that some of my training was something.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 21:02

                                                    I hear or he, okay, and you wanted to you originally started going to protect yourself as well. Because you’re in a situation where you need to protect yourself. Okay. So it’s just going into a new environment. And you’re not certain about what goes on in there. And what happens and you have a previous history and you figure, let’s just take this slowly and easily and get to know what’s happening. Have somebody there with me? I think it’s a good idea. There’s nothing wrong with that. Especially because you are back in the gym. I mean, that’s a great idea. If it’s getting you back into the gym now, does your partner go to the gym and participate as well?

                                                    Stroke recovery and hospital experience in Tanzania

                                                    Joy Alliy 21:41

                                                    He’s been twice. I get trying to get him back and I’m like, I’m like, please just come with me. And he’s like, No, I’m fine. But so when I don’t go with him, I just work out, you know, you know, flat, I just do it on my own. We have some ways we just use that I use all my equipment that I have.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 22:03

                                                    So he just turns up just that make it possible for you to go. That’s so cool in itself.

                                                    Joy Alliy 22:10

                                                    Sometimes he does sometimes he does exercise. I don’t want him to think that I don’t say something bad because going to hear this right.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 22:19

                                                    Now I know. But it’s such a good thing. It’s such a cool thing, even though he doesn’t want to participate at the gym. It turns up just to help you. Do what you’ve got it. It’s so cool. I like it. I like it. So tell me about what it was like in the hospital system. Was it was it in Tanzania? Yes. What was it like when you presented a hospital with a stroke?

                                                    Intro 22:45

                                                    If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. How long will it take to recover? Will I recover? What things should I avoid? In case I make matters worse, and doctors will explain things but, you’ve never had a stroke before, so you probably don’t know what questions to ask. If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery.

                                                    Intro 23:15

                                                    If you’re finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you it’s called “Seven Questions to Ask Your Doctor about Your Stroke”. These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition, they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery. Head to the website now, recoveryafterstroke.com, and download the guide. It’s free.

                                                    Joy Alliy 23:48

                                                    Well, first of all, there are no public, no ambulances, and no private, public ambulances in Tanzania. They’re all private. And when you call an ambulance, basically they ask you if you can pay first. If you can’t find your way to the hospital, and because we because of that because he was the one who discovered me and he didn’t know about ambulances. So he’s the one that drove me to the hospital. Luckily, we first went to a clinic where there for about half an hour and they had no clue that I had a stroke.

                                                    Joy Alliy 24:24

                                                    This was a clinic that was run, this was a clinic for experts. And they didn’t know. Then this is just a we got one of the hospitals which we did. And luckily it was one of the one of the really good hospitals in Tanzania. And as soon as we got there was almost like a scene from ER, I was wielding in and people were standing over me asking me questions, all this stuff. And then they just they just said that I had a stroke. Because they did all the little tests, initial tests there I discovered I had a stroke.

                                                    Joy Alliy 24:58

                                                    Remember I kept saying I don’t know what happened, I don’t know what happened. Like our feelings like, like feeling sorry for what’s happened to me, even then. And then they, they said, we have to do more tests. And then they took me to do the MRI, the CT scan, and all those other things. But then as they were doing that, they were also telling my sister like, prepare to pay, go get your insurance, and also before the insurance kicks in, you have to pay a deposit, then she had to go get a credit card and then pay the deposit.

                                                    Joy Alliy 25:31

                                                    And because it’s all doing COVID, and at that time, they weren’t taking it very seriously. So I was at the back of my mind, I was still very nervous about COVID, the Lord had a stroke, but I was more concerned about COVID. They said, Okay, you need to stay here, but we’ll put you in a private room. So then I was in a private room for six days. So yes, six nights.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 25:54

                                                    So you’re, you’ve had a stroke, you’re in Tanzania, you feel like the hospital system in Tanzania is not taking COVID seriously enough at that stage. And you’re more concerned that you broke a check COVID rather than the fact that you’ve been told that you’ve had a stroke?

                                                    Joy Alliy 26:12

                                                    Yes. Because of all the stuff we have heard on, we’ve seen on TV about people getting COVID. And just because I’m asthmatic, I was worried that it would go to my lungs and all this stuff. I wasn’t thinking about a stroke. And also, when I was there, the first night, when I was there, I got up and started walking up and down the corridor. And this is what I finished, you just had a stroke, I think it was just nervous energy. So then later on, they had to put all these tubes in, in me, that stopped me from going anywhere.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 26:45

                                                    So I can relate to that part, the first time that I ended up in hospital after the first bleed. I turned up and they, I didn’t look like somebody who had a bleed in the brain. But, there was a bleed in the brain, I was talking just like I am now walking, and my left side felt a bit strange. But I was in hospital for seven days, and there was a lot of waiting time in between. So I would just get dressed get up and go down to the cafeteria at the hospital. And they’d be looking for me. And they’d say to me, you can’t leave your hospital bed.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 27:22

                                                    And I would be organizing with my phone for people to meet me at the cafeteria. So my friends would come and see me with ketchup have a coffee, whatever. And it was I didn’t take it seriously. Because of that. I felt like, well, I don’t know what this bleeding the brain thing is, but doesn’t seem to be doing much. And I didn’t take it too seriously. But the doctors and nurses were freaking out. They couldn’t believe that I wasn’t in, in my ward. It was kind of nervous energy, but it was also on board, I needed to be up and about I was getting tired lying down.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 28:05

                                                    So I needed to stretch my legs. It was not the normal presentation of somebody who’s had a stroke, and then people would come and visit me. And again, they couldn’t connect it because they would hear he’s had a brain hemorrhage. And they imagined that that should be more serious. And they just weren’t seeing it from me. And I couldn’t convince people that I was unwell. And I couldn’t even convince myself that I was unwell.

                                                    Joy Alliy 28:39

                                                    When I think the fact that you’re meeting them in the cafeteria and made them think that oh, he’s fine.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 28:45

                                                    Yeah. Yeah, I was getting people to say to me, you know, sometimes these things happen. And one of the people who one of my cousins said to me, you know, boxers, and UFC fighters and all that sometimes that gets more blades on the brain, you know, and usually they, they go away and they recover, and they’re fine. So everyone’s just was pretty relaxed about it except my parents, they weren’t relaxed about it, they were losing their marbles. But it was, it was interesting.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 29:20

                                                    With the cultural differences, I’m curious to know how you guys go about things. So in my Greek family, when somebody has a stroke, or or any kind of minor or major incident, it becomes everybody finds out about it in about three minutes. And then you’re dealing with 1001 questions about everything and then there’s constant phone calls and it’s a way that they get together to support you. It’s their way of supporting you but it becomes overwhelming and too much. What’s it like with your family?

                                                    Joy Alliy 29:59

                                                    In Tanzania is different. Like when you when somebody gets sick, you won’t know about it. They just basically, it’s like, it’s especially if it’s something major like that. They just basically want to keep it to themselves, they will tell very few people. I don’t know why that is, you just feel like you need to just keep it as small as possible. So I didn’t have that many people know about it. And even even when I left Tanzania, later on, still not many people knew about it until I came here. And I set up my acid, or something on my Instagram pages when they realize.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 30:43

                                                    Wow, that’s interesting. So, is it, is it? What is it? You know? Is it sort of, is it shame? is it, pride?

                                                    Joy Alliy’s experiences with support and hidden deficits

                                                    Joy Alliy 30:57

                                                    It’s a shame. And it’s like stigma. It’s like, you know, when you even when you had COVID, people were like looking at you and saying, I don’t want to go anywhere near that person. It’s like, remember, when people first had HIV, you didn’t want to go anywhere near them. Because it’s like, all those things. If you have HIV, if you have cancer, if you have all the things. You just people just don’t want to go near you. You think it’s catching.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 31:20

                                                    So unwell people, do they lack the support that I got that I thought was amazing, but overbearing, but still amazing, where people rally around you and bring food and all that stuff? Are you not sure if it elicited direct family? Do they get involved?

                                                    Joy Alliy 31:44

                                                    Define direct family, I think if you say direct family, as in your immediate family, yes. But any other family members? No. And of course, I got the financial support. But that’s about it. It’s just one of those things that they just, how do I describe it? I think we’re a bit. It’s part of the culture. And it’s just something that just hasn’t evolved in time. This is sad, because there were there were people that I knew who had had strokes, and I told my family should reach out to them to get more information. So they could better take care of him. But they didn’t do that. Then one at that many people have had a stroke.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 32:29

                                                    I see, that’s interesting. Does that make it harder when people don’t know that you’ve had a stroke? Because you’re behaving a different way? Do you have cognitive issues, you have speech issues? And then I imagine you’re still trying to communicate? Are you pretending that everything’s normal? Are you letting people know who you ask or who you run into that this happened?

                                                    Joy Alliy 32:58

                                                    Well, I would, because at the beginning, they would see me in a wheelchair, or they would see me walking with like a limp or something. But if I but if I didn’t tell them, they wouldn’t say, say anything. It was me who made people aware. But people and imagine when I had the stroke, I reached out to some people who were stroke survivors, and they didn’t call me back.

                                                    Joy Alliy 33:21

                                                    Because I wanted to know, like, what’s your experience? Can you tell me if all these things that are happening to me are okay? Is this normal? should I expect this but nobody came to me to tell me, only one person came. It had to do with my emotional ability.

                                                    Joy Alliy 33:36

                                                    And it wasn’t the right way that they told me how to deal with it. Either. They didn’t understand that. It was normal. It was only when I came here. And when I read about it more in the Stroke Association, that was when I learned more about my defects. But in Tanzania, not really. But my partner was very good at trying to get as much information as possible they could, because he became a full-time carer, my partner.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 34:02

                                                    I see, so when you left one hospital, what were the deficits? There were some cognitive ones, and there were some speech ones, what else?

                                                    Joy Alliy 34:13

                                                    There’s a slight weakness. I had swallowing problems, which I still have sometimes, like when I’m tired, or if I’m sick. I have sensory overload. Which doesn’t help the fact that I’m here in Edinburgh Scotland. And I also had, obviously I had temperature issues. So temperature regulation issues. So there are temperature regulation issues, and I have some hidden ones as well. I have anxiety, depression, and PTSD.

                                                    Joy Alliy 34:50

                                                    When people see me they don’t see those. Those hidden ones. And those are things that they didn’t pick up on in Tanzania. None of them, If enough, didn’t pick up on that.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 35:05

                                                    How long were you in Tanzania before you left the hospital and before you went to Scotland?

                                                    Joy Alliy 35:11

                                                    I was in Tanzania for six months. Then I came, then we came over here, which was quite difficult because it was getting in the middle of a pandemic. We had to, we had to go to Kenya first for 10 days and then go to London and then take travel by car to Scotland. Six hours.

                                                    Joy Alliy dealing with anxiety and depression

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 35:33

                                                    Yeah, was the anxiety and depression something that you experienced before the stroke? Or is it something that occurred after?

                                                    Joy Alliy 35:44

                                                    Before the stroke I had, I was what you call a highly functional person with anxiety but also highly functional. But I didn’t know that. It’s something that I’m learning now but I didn’t know that I had that back then. I used to get a little panic attacks as well at work.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 36:05

                                                    And you hadn’t worked out that you had anxiety, you lived with a so-called condition or the symptoms of it, and you just thought it was your normal life?

                                                    Joy Alliy 36:17

                                                    And I knew there was something wrong with my body. But I just didn’t know sometimes you hear about it, but you just don’t think it applies to you. Later on, you sit there and you have time to read and you’re like, Oh, so that’s what it was. Luckily, when you have this period of recovery, it’s given me time to sit and read more. That was before the stroke used to read just anything stuff to do with the law, nothing else.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 36:47

                                                    And the depression, how do you describe that? What? Is this something that has set that off? Because of the condition again? Or is it something that was from the past? And how do you experience depression? How do you describe would you describe it to me?

                                                    Joy Alliy 37:04

                                                    Well, with depression, I mean all the stuff, I’m taking medication for it as well. And it’s the doctors who the doctor in Tanzania, that’s why I saw, well what they call it, therapist in Tanzania and she was the one who diagnosed that I had PTSD, anxiety and depression, because when I was in Tanzania, I couldn’t sleep at night when I came back home.

                                                    Joy Alliy 37:31

                                                    It’s all because of the fear of getting another stroke because whenever it was time to sleep, I just didn’t want to go to sleep. After all, I knew I was going to have a stroke to just staying up until 4 a.m./5 a.m. and depression I just didn’t want to do anything I just didn’t feel motivated.

                                                    Joy Alliy 37:50

                                                    Felt like my world was crumbling, I just didn’t want to do anything. And it affected my eating as well. So just wouldn’t eat as much. Which is still a problem now because I’m I’ve lost quite a lot that much weight. Considering that am I quite small. It’s quite a lot. My trainer, the physio says that I’ve lost 30% of my body, my body weight. So that’s so that didn’t help either. It’s just a feeling of doom and gloom. A feeling like, you’re like in a sorry, a deep well that you just can’t get out of.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 38:42

                                                    So, the, it’s a feeling, is it a thought or a feeling?

                                                    Joy Alliy 38:49

                                                    Feeling, feeling, and sometimes thoughts. Have also been in thoughts of suicide as well. That was quite bad because I remember when I had it. And when I finally told my partner, he freaked out. I didn’t tell him for a while because I was afraid. Again, with my thinking. I thought that now with anxiety about depression and suicidal thoughts, I was thinking about how it was back then.

                                                    Joy Alliy 39:18

                                                    Because back then when you had suicide they would take you and take you. I thought the same thing would happen now I didn’t want to tell him. When I told him he was like; right, you’re going to get you to see another therapist here, right away. I used to find one.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 39:38

                                                    Is your partner from Scotland or is it from back home?

                                                    Joy Alliy 39:42

                                                    He’s Scottish, he’s Scottish,

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 39:45

                                                    Very different cultural approaches to that kind of issue.

                                                    Joy Alliy 39:50

                                                    Yes. Luckily is actually because he took a year out once and traveled to parts of Africa so he understands the African culture as well. sometimes both worlds.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 40:02

                                                    Yeah, okay, so he’s confident sort of reading between the lines, and understands what might be going on. That’s not obvious to the regular person who’s not from or spent time on the continent. Okay, interesting. So, how is your motivation these days?

                                                    Joy Alliy 40:27

                                                    Well, I just celebrated by, I mean, when it comes, I just celebrated my third anniversary. So you can imagine what it’s like when you’re the days before and the day or every day is the same thing. Wake up, are you worried that you’re gonna have another stroke, all these things, then luckily, people will help you. Then obviously, sometimes I get a bit depressed, like, for example, and it was closing my business, otherwise have been quite motivated.

                                                    Joy Alliy 41:00

                                                    I mean, when people see my Instagram page, they’re shocked. Because I’ve done so much since I’ve had my stroke. I’ve done wall climbing, I’ve done growing. I have so many things I’ve always been active, both in physio and out on physio.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 41:22

                                                    And you decided to share your story, you’ve come on a podcast that I was going to make a point of that because I do get a lot of people who told me that they go through anxiety, depression, difficulty doing stuff, and getting stuff yet, they somehow make an effort A to find a podcast B to come onto the podcast and share their story. What motivates you to come onto the podcast? What’s the point of it?

                                                    Joy Alliy 41:50

                                                    Well, I’ve been to have been on other podcasts, too. But this one, I felt that because I wanted to reach out specifically to stroke survivors as well, especially the new ones. So they can know that they’re not alone.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 42:07

                                                    Do you think there are a lot of stroke survivors who might be from a similar cultural background to you? That might be listening, and therefore, being encouraged to take different actions on the recovery and get over the stigma.

                                                    Overcoming challenges and finding community after a stroke

                                                    Joy Alliy 42:31

                                                    Because you can recovery might not be 100% but you can recover. And being in a wheelchair doesn’t mean that’s the end of the world, you can still do so much in a wheelchair. Remember, when I used to be in a wheelchair and people looked at me, I’m like, What’s wrong with you? And because the thing is, maybe I’m different. But I went to university to school in the UK when I was young, and through Uni as well.

                                                    Joy Alliy 42:59

                                                    So my mentality is a bit more Westernized. So when I go back home, I still struggle a lot with playing to just an African culture, and my Western upbringing was a big clash there.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 43:15

                                                    Yeah, I imagine it would be really difficult to try and traverse the world and say something simple to implement or to talk about in Scotland, for example, that would be very difficult to implement, and difficult to talk about just a few 1000 kilometers away in another direction.

                                                    Joy Alliy 43:37

                                                    I used to have such heated discussions with people about basic human rights, I’m like, But why? Why is this not allowed? And I’ll be like, Okay, I give up. It’s just the basic things that just people can’t get their minds off. And this can make people even highly educated, they just don’t believe that. There are still so many people who don’t believe in therapy. People still think that certain diseases are to be stigmatized, all these things. This is a shame, because in the 21st century now need to wake up.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 44:12

                                                    Yeah, it is a shame. You do say that some, in some pockets of the great culture as well. You do say some people who will not share will not tell you everything is a secret, usually in the older generation. I think one of the good things about social media perhaps, is that, well, maybe people oversharing these days, but there’s still this desire to express and share. So people have a voice, and they have a way to express it and they can find their community. I mean, the stroke community is the perfect community, we wouldn’t have had this level of community.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 44:52

                                                    When I experienced my first brain hemorrhage in 2012, there was nothing like this there were surely there were some books but I found them online and read books from other strokes of oversharing. So it was quite difficult. Now there’s a proliferation of them. Because access to self-publishing is so good. And it’s effective, and it’s cheap. And distribution is perfect because Amazon does it all. And it’s such a different world that we live in, in literally 10 years that things have changed so much that we’re able to feel that it’s beneficial to express.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 45:35

                                                    So we also feel it because we’re doing something good for other people. Other people are reaching out to me every week and saying thank you for that episode. That was a great episode, I appreciated listening to Joy, for example, who or whoever else. And, and it’s I don’t think I could be here without it, I actually with this ability to share if I couldn’t do it, honestly, I don’t know where I’d be today, I don’t think I’d be around.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 46:02

                                                    It’s just necessary for me to get on and talk about it almost every week because I interview one or two people a week. And when I do, I feel like I’m having a free therapy session, every time Joy, it’s, I have to talk about it so much that I couldn’t possibly talk to my wife about it this much, because she’s not equipped to listen to it all over and over and over again. And, for example, if you were a stroke survivor, and I spoke to you about it every single day, every single week, you would get sick of me as well.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 46:40

                                                    But the beauty of the podcast is I get to hear from you, we talk about it once. And we both benefit from that our people listening and watching on YouTube benefit from that. And then I get to move on to the next person and have a therapy session with them. And then hopefully, I’m doing the same for them. Hopefully, it’s a mini-therapy session for them as well. Do you feel some kind of? Do you feel that when you get onto podcasts, and talk about what you went through?

                                                    Joy Alliy dealing with PTSD, stroke, and therapy

                                                    Joy Alliy 47:13

                                                    I don’t know. I remember at the beginning when I talked to people I called a few people that I talked to, I used to say sometimes Joy, maybe toned down the talking because you don’t want to re-traumatize yourself. Now I was like I need to talk about it. Because if I don’t work for me talking was almost like accepting that this has happened to me. Because if you just don’t talk, they just face in and you just don’t accept it to me talking was a way to finally come to terms with the fact that this is my new life.

                                                    Joy Alliy 47:47

                                                    This is why I now need to embrace it. And the fact is the fact that there isn’t a very good, a very, very big stroke community in Tanzania doesn’t help because after my stroke when I moved here, who started texting me saying okay, I’m sorry, but my, my brother or my uncle or somebody who’s had a stroke, what can I do? They would ask me, call me all the way here asking me for stuff. And I’m like, How am I supposed to do that? Now? I can’t remember, I can’t remember which hospital you should go to or whatnot. But if there was a big stroke community, then they can easily reach out to them.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 48:25

                                                    Yeah, people who have been through it before know the lay of the land. Yeah. I do. I do. Enjoy it. You’re a lawyer. So you talk for a living, right? So you’re really good? Yeah. So you’re good at it. It’s a skill and to not talk about something that’s a topic that’s important on your mind would be difficult. I encourage people to talk as well. I think it’s one of the best ways to get through it.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 49:00

                                                    It also feels to me, like it’s a good way to support dealing with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. I’m not sure because I’ve never had PTSD, so to speak. I know a few people who have experienced it. But does it help to calm that down to settle the PTSD? How do you deal with PTSD?

                                                    Joy Alliy 49:23

                                                    Well, when I was in Tanzania, I finally tried to reach out to a therapist and they said that though you shouldn’t you shouldn’t approach a therapist because it’s not the African way. But he just said no, we’re going to get some help for Joy because she exhibiting symptoms of PTSD. So I found this one therapist who was Tanzanian. She knew how to deal with PTSD. She used a method called EMDR I don’t know if you’ve heard of it.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 49:53

                                                    Tapping.

                                                    Joy Alliy 49:56

                                                    This was not a use-your-finger EMDR eye movement processing. Yes, yeah. So then when you’re doing that you have to talk. You have to recount the events that happen when you have a new stroke, and you keep repeating it until it just becomes a story. I don’t know how it happens, but somehow you train your brain to just think of it as a story rather than a memory.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 50:21

                                                    Yes. And then when you think about it next time, you’re not traumatizing yourself every time you think about it. Yeah, yes. So I think that’s what talking to nearly 270 people on the podcast has helped me do. It’s helped me to remember it as an event that happened in the past, but not an event that’s continuing to happen to me every single day, even though I had three brain images in the same spot, even though I had brain surgery, and had to learn how to walk again and do all of that.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 50:54

                                                    I talk about it now. And it’s like, I read it in a book, it doesn’t feel like I went through it. And it’s a bit strange, to have a conversation with somebody about my experience, because I no longer feel it. Although I’m left with a deficit, it has left me with left-side numbness and balance issues. And sometimes, you know, my cognition is a little bit slow. I’m really tired. Last night, we had a late night, and I woke up early this morning to come here. So all my deficits are telling me more.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 51:30

                                                    They’re going hey, do do less today don’t do so much today. So I love that explanation with you in terms of I was gonna say I love that explanation of what EMDR does and how it changes the story about what’s happened to you to not re-traumatize you. So for people who are watching, and listening EMDR according to a Google search that I just did is a psychotherapy treatment that aims to reduce distressing emotions associated with traumatic memories.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 52:12

                                                    EMDR stands for Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing. And how is it, Joy? If you can answer this? I’m not sure. Maybe you can’t. How is it that eye movement helps to settle PTSD?

                                                    Joy Alliy 52:31

                                                    I think when you follow on, I think, I don’t know. But I think we follow the eye. You just You just focus on one particular thing and somehow it’s connected to your brain? I don’t know. The therapists know about that. When he was talking about cognitive defects, you said you had a late night and I was wondering whether you had sensory overload issues.

                                                    Sensory overload and its impact on daily life

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 52:53

                                                    I did. I wasn’t partying. I’ll tell you what happened. So in Australia, we have Australian football. It’s a little bit different from the NFL and it’s very different from round-ball football, what everyone else calls football. It’s like a rugby, kind of like a rugby game. Anyhow, my team made it to the final. And they won. So we were watching it here at my house. The team is called Collingwood and we are mad Collingwood supporters, our entire family.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 53:29

                                                    My wife’s side of the family happened to be Collingwood supporters when I met them. So it was just a bonus. So there’s just there are about 25 Crazy Collingwood people just here, you know, in this part of my world, you know my house near my house. So we all got together with my parents and my in-laws. Everyone was here, and we were watching it. And I was screaming and yelling. And it was emotional. And of course, because I have somehow a little bit of an inability to control my emotions.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 54:02

                                                    I think I discovered about pseudobulbar effect, you know, when I cry at the drop of a hat now, I’ve been crying for two hours yesterday. You know I can’t during the game. Just because one of our players did something. I mean, I’m tearing up now, just because one of our players did something amazing. I would start crying and everyone was giving me a hard time. Because part of the part of the therapy for me is I cry. I don’t hide it. I let everyone see they all get uncomfortable and then they start teasing me about it.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 54:35

                                                    Look, Bill’s crying again because somebody did something good in the game. And I just tell them all to get lost and leave me alone and it’s just how it works. You know it’s become one of those things that we can joke about and laugh about. Because, because that that’s me now that’s what I do. I just cry at the football. So I am overloaded. I can feel it physically in my brain, I can feel it, and I can feel that after this interview, I’m going to have to do nothing for the rest of the day.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 55:12

                                                    As I said, I woke up at seven in the morning to make this Zoom call at eight. And today is going to be a ride of what I call a ride off. And our guests, our guests last night, they did not leave until one in the morning. And I was hoping that they would leave earlier, but they wouldn’t.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 55:33

                                                    And I couldn’t tell them to leave. And when they left, I told my wife, why didn’t you make them leave earlier? Why couldn’t you get them out of the house a bit sooner? Not because I wanted them to go. Because I wanted to be able to do this podcast and be in a good condition. So yeah, I do get sensory overload and I have this particular room that I’ve set up in my house that has been treated so that I’ve got a good sound for the podcast. So there’s no background noise and things like that. It’s like a little quiet room.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 56:10

                                                    And when I feel like there’s too much noise, it’s overloaded. My head’s overloaded, I come in here. And even though I’ve got my computer screens up here, and this is where I do my work, and my recording and my editing. It’s really quiet. If I close the door, I can’t hear the outside world, it’s just really quiet and helps me to calm my brain down and, relax everything. So that’s a long answer to yes, your question. I’m overloaded.

                                                    Joy Alliy 56:46

                                                    I’m glad you say that because I think some people just don’t understand the concept of it. So hopefully, when they hear this about you and me, they might understand more about what sensory overload means.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 56:56

                                                    Yeah. And you know, I avoided going and watching my team for many years. Because it was too hard. It was too loud. And when I’m at the ground, we had 100,000 People at the stadium yesterday. And when you go and play when you go and watch my team, they regularly have 80-90,000 people at their games. So it’s just three hours, of way too much information for a stroke brain to handle. So when people used to ask me to go to the football for many, many years after the first incident, and then after brain surgery, I said no. And I have this memory of an event. So my whole health issue started in 2012.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 57:47

                                                    But I believe that there was an event in 2010. Okay, and again, it’s related to the football. Again, my team made it into the final. It’s a big deal because they don’t get there that often when your team makes it into the final. And it’s like the playoff series for people who are from the United States who are listening. It’s like the playoffs at the end of the at the end of the year. So they come to the final game.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 58:13

                                                    They needed to win the final game to win the championship to be crowned the champions, and I met the final game 20 in 2010. And it’s in November, early November, and I’m watching the game and I go home after the game because it was a draw. They didn’t get a result. And in the old days, if you didn’t get a result you came back and played the next week. Okay, so I had a ticket. I was there, there were 100,000 people, I was yelling and screaming all day and I was sick for the entire week.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 58:46

                                                    After the game, the whole week, I was sick, I couldn’t stand up, and I had nausea. I went to the doctors, I went to the hospital, and they did a lumbar puncture. They scanned my brain to see if there was a blade or anything wrong. And they couldn’t find anything at that time. So the following week, I had a ticket to go to the game. And I had to give the ticket away to my dad I said to him, I’m not going because I feel too unwell.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 59:12

                                                    You need to go I watched the game at home on my own so that I would not be in that space where I was going to get high blood pressure and yell and scream and give myself another headache because this headache was like never a headache I’ve never had before. So I think that it was the first sign of what was to come nearly one and a half years later when I ended up in hospital because that blood vessel in my head that burst was there from birth.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 59:47

                                                    So it wasn’t something that I created or that just happened later on in life. It was always there and it was always waiting for something to go wrong. This arteriovenous malformation And that’s what they do. They just sort of sit in the background until they start playing up. So, yeah. That question you asked me just reminded me of that whole part of the story and yesterday made me feel makes me feel my head today’s not as bad as it was in 2010. But it kind of reminds me of that event back then.

                                                    Recovery and self-improvement Joy Alliy

                                                    Joy Alliy 1:00:27

                                                    You know, it’s funny, you were saying, we’re talking about yelling and how it increased your blood pressure. Well, before the stroke, my blood pressure was, was actually on the low side. But unfortunately, because I’m a bit of a perfectionist, and get very frustrated, there’s a lot of yelling, I was almost like, you know, the chef Gordon Ramsay, I was a bit like that. Constantly yelling, frustrated with people needed to get everything perfect.

                                                    Joy Alliy 1:01:01

                                                    They got something Oh, just get very upset. I’ll start like, cursing all these things. I’ll get angry when I was when I was driving, to work and back road rage, all these things. So I did kickboxing.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:12

                                                    At work as well?

                                                    Joy Alliy 1:01:20

                                                    Yes, this was at work. Yeah. Because when you have your firm, you can do anything. Yeah, when you’re when you’re employed, you just have to, like keep it in, but you’re still very frustrated. But when you go to the office, and you just start screaming or whatever.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:35

                                                    Yeah. I also did the anger thing. Absolutely. And I tried a lot, a lot of the work that I’m doing now with myself to myself, it’s trying to not be as ridiculous as I was angry, yelling and screaming. And it’s such a silly tool, because it just, doesn’t achieve anything. It just makes you rage, and it makes the other person shut down or rage as well. And in that state, you can’t create anything meaningful or, you know, come to some sort of an understanding or an agreement. It’s a really difficult way to try and make communication work. I don’t know.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:02:19

                                                    I don’t know why I go there. But I try not to kickboxing would help with that. And a little bit of yelling and screaming at the television. I feel like does help release some of that stuff. But it still causes a headache. Like it’s caused a massive headache.

                                                    Joy Alliy 1:02:36

                                                    When people see me now they just see this docile person and like, you should have seen me before stroke. I was a completely different person. You would have liked that person.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:02:47

                                                    Yeah. Would you be in difficulty? I was gonna say would have been difficult to work with.

                                                    Joy Alliy 1:02:56

                                                    Only when I had my firm, but before that I was brilliant. Because I was I just had a paycheck. That was it. I just had to do my work. Look after my clients and then go home. When you have your law firm. There are so many things that consider paying taxes, paying salaries, dealing with, staff when you have your little disputes, all these things.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:21

                                                    Yeah. Dealing with clients and difficult situations at work. Yeah. Yeah.

                                                    Joy Alliy 1:03:28

                                                    Clients that don’t want to pay

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:30

                                                    clients that don’t want to pay. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That’s terrible. Hey, I was wondering, as we get to the end of the podcast episode, I was wondering if you could share with me. What’s the hardest thing about stroke?

                                                    Joy Alliy 1:03:52

                                                    Trying not to push yourself too much, keeps you out of the recovery.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:00

                                                    trying to not push yourself too much. Yeah, fair enough.

                                                    Joy Alliy 1:04:06

                                                    Because I’m still thinking with my old Joy brain.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:12

                                                    And you have to take a different slower approach to life. Yeah. What has stroke taught you?

                                                    Joy Alliy 1:04:25

                                                    It’s taught me to slow down because I had such a life that was so chaotic before. He’s taught me that. overworking is not, it can be dangerous. Like you need to take time off you need to rest. You also need to be kind to yourself. Need to Be kind to yourself love yourself and appreciate the little achievements that you make especially during the stroke journey.

                                                    Joy Alliy 1:04:52

                                                    And also, if you have any issues, any anger any anxiety anything, get help. Those of our law know that love conquers everything. Because that my partner I won’t be here. I mean, we’ve been we’ve been together for nine years now. And he looked after me for three years. And he’s done everything, everything. I’m almost tearing up.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:23

                                                    Yeah, that’s a good thing. I love it. And if other people who are just starting the journey to recovery, are listening today, what’s the one thing you would like to tell them?

                                                    Joy Alliy 1:05:39

                                                    Don’t give up. If somebody tells you, you can’t do something, try. Be surprised. And you’d be surprised how strong you are. Your mind can do so much. If you put if your body can do so much, you just put your mind to it. And don’t don’t, don’t. Don’t worry about pain. Because pain is required. Because some people worry about doing stuff to increase or because they think it’s painful. Well, you have to exhibit you have to be in pain to get better. Just also because of feeling something is painful. Just keep going.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:06:23

                                                    And on that note, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast and reaching out to be on the show.

                                                    Joy Alliy 1:06:28

                                                    Thank you so much for having me.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:06:34

                                                    Thanks again for joining me on another episode today. Remember to grab your copy of chapter one of the book “The Unexpected Way That a Stroke Became the Best Thing That Happened” by visiting recoveryafterstroke.com/book Have a look around the page also explains what the rest of the book is about. And then fill out the details and get your free chapter.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:06:57

                                                    As always, to learn more about my guests, including links to their social media, and other pages. And to download a full transcript of the entire interview, please go to recoveryafterstroke.com/episodes Thank you to everybody who has already left a review. It means the world to me, and I appreciate it. People must review the show so that the algorithms and the people who decide how popular a podcast can be see that there is a positive response to this podcast so we can put it in front of other stroke survivors who are perhaps having a hard time.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:07:41

                                                    And what that might do is help them have a better stroke recovery. And that would be amazing. Leaving a five-star review on iTunes and Spotify would be amazing. If you’re watching on YouTube, comment below the video, like the episode and to get notifications of future episodes, subscribe to the show. And also hit that notifications bell on YouTube because then it will notify you that the next episode is available. Thanks again for being here and listening. I appreciate you see you on the next episode.

                                                    Intro 1:08:16

                                                    Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals. The opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast are the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed in all content on this website at any length blog, podcast, or video material control.

                                                    Intro 1:08:38

                                                    This website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis, the content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice. The information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances, or health objectives.

                                                    Intro 1:09:01

                                                    Do not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose treat, cure, or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional. Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional, your doctor, or your rehabilitation program based on our content. If you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition, please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional.

                                                    Intro 1:09:24

                                                    If you are experiencing a health emergency or think you might be called triple zero in Australia or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance or go to the nearest hospital emergency department medical information changes constantly. While we aim to provide current quality information in our content. We did not provide any guarantees and assume no legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, currency, or completeness of the content.

                                                    Intro 1:09:47

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                                                    The post Vertigo Turns Out To Be STROKE – Joy Alliy appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

                                                    1 hr 11 min
                                                  • Stroke During Yoga | Abigail Atkinson

                                                    Abigail Atkinson was teaching yoga when she started to notice the symptoms of a vertebral artery dissection that caused a stroke.

                                                    Website

                                                    Instagram: Adaptive Yoga Utah
                                                    Instagram: Well With Abigail
                                                    Adaptive Yoga Offerings

                                                    Highlights:

                                                    02:33 Introduction

                                                    04:51 Knowing when to follow your instincts
                                                    10:51 The ability to listen to your body
                                                    16:19 Getting back to yoga after the stroke
                                                    21:42 The advantage of having years of yoga practice
                                                    27:46 Having yoga snacks throughout the day
                                                    30:34 The neurovision therapy program
                                                    38:44 What is the next step?
                                                    41:07 The importance of emotional healing
                                                    47:00 Post-traumatic growth
                                                    53:59 Lack of stroke support information
                                                    57:26 The hardest thing about stroke
                                                    59:46 What has stroke taught you?
                                                    1:00:39 A message to other stroke survivors

                                                    Transcript:

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 0:00

                                                    Having a disciplined yoga practice for as long as I did helped me, I already was in the habit of sticking to a daily discipline. So I follow through on my physical and occupational therapy. I found that when I did what I call little yoga snacks, I would take the yoga snacks where I would do some of my therapy stuff.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 0:24

                                                    And I would go for like five or 10 minutes and then rest and then I would do that several times a day. So I focused on frequency more than just a big long duration. When I kind of switched to that strategy I’ve made significantly faster improvements. But part of that was showing up every single day and working hard.

                                                    Intro 0:48

                                                    This is the Recovery after Stroke podcast. With Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after stroke.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:02

                                                    Hello, and welcome to the Recovery after Stroke Podcast. I’m putting the final touches on my book and have made the first chapter available for free for anyone curious to check it out and wants to grab a copy.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:15

                                                    If you go to recoveryafterstroke.com/book and fill out the form, you will receive the free chapter in your email a few moments later. The book is called The Unexpected Way That A Stroke Became The Best Thing That Happened.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:29

                                                    I am coming to the end of this project which started as a concept four years ago. So go to recoveryafterstroke.com/book and grab your PDF of the first chapter free today. If you are a stroke survivor with a story to share about your experience. Now is the perfect time to join me on the show. The interviews are not scripted, you do not have to plan for them.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:51

                                                    All you need to do to qualify is be a stroke survivor who wants to share your story in the hope that it will help somebody else who’s going through something similar. If you’re a researcher who wants to share the findings of a recent study, or you’re looking to recruit people into studies, you may also wish to reach out and be a guest on my show.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 2:12

                                                    If you have a commercial product that you would like to promote that is related to supporting stroke survivors to recover. There is also a path for you to join me as a sponsored guest of the show. Just go to recoveryafterstroke.com/contact, and fill out the contact form explaining briefly which category you belong to.

                                                    Introduction – Abigail Atkinson


                                                    Bill Gasiamis 2:33
                                                    And I will respond with more details about how we can connect via Zoom. This is episode 271. And my guest today is Abigail Atkinson, who experienced a stroke while at yoga, aged 35. A few days after a chiropractic adjustment. Abigail Atkinson, welcome to the podcast.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 2:52

                                                    Thank you so much. Great to be here.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 2:55

                                                    Yeah, thank you for being here. Thank you for reaching out. Tell me a little bit about what happened to you.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 3:01

                                                    I had a stroke on January 25, 2012. I was actually in the middle of teaching a yoga class where I was working at the time I was working at ancestry.com and had just started teaching yoga. And right about halfway through the class, I started to feel sick.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 3:20

                                                    And I remember feeling like I was getting laryngitis feeling hot, and opening the door going and opening the door to cool it off. And then I just started feeling sicker and sicker. I started to get a terrible pain in my neck.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 3:37

                                                    And my right side started to feel numb. I realized that I was significantly sick. So I talked the students down to Shavasana. That’s the final relaxation posture in a yoga class. So I talked them down. Once they were down, I went and sat down, leaned up against the wall, and kind of just waited for it to pass thinking that I was just having a moment and it didn’t pass the pain in my neck became excruciating.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 4:14

                                                    And I was no longer able to get up. So I crawled over to one of the employees. And he helped me out of the room. Fortunately, we were right across the hall from the facilities room at the office. And they called 911.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 4:33

                                                    And it was interesting as I was sitting there in that room waiting for the ambulance to arrive. It was looking dead on at a poster that was saying look for the signs of stroke. So I was like, Oh, my gosh, I’m having a I think I’m having a stroke.

                                                    Knowing when to follow your instincts

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 4:49

                                                    There are so many parts of the story and I’m sure I’m not going to tell it to you in chronological order, but ultimately the EMT did arrive on the scene, and I was young at the time, my stroke happened almost 12 years ago, he examined me and said, I think you have vertigo.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 5:15

                                                    So I recommend you go lie down and rest for a couple of hours. If you still feel sick, you know, go see your doctor, my wife had vertigo a couple of weeks ago. So that’s probably what this is. And before, you know, there was like 10 or 15 minutes before the ambulance came.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 5:32

                                                    And I was having difficulty just sitting in a chair, I was like, falling out of the chair, I was throwing up. I had this horrible, awful pain in my neck. It was very dizzy. And I thought that I was dying. I had a moment where I was saying goodbye to my children, I was like talking to God to take care of my children.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 5:53

                                                    I was like, this is it, I think I’m dying. It’s very surreal to think that you’re dying. So when the EMT told me to rest I was “What?” I had a choice to make to either listen to the medical authority, which were taught to do, or to listen to myself. And I felt pretty strongly I needed to go to the hospital.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 6:16

                                                    So I made him take me to the hospital. And he did, didn’t use his sirens or anything like that he kind of just moseyed to the hospital, which, fortunately, wasn’t that far away. So I luckily got to the hospital, within the first hour of the onset of symptoms.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 6:34

                                                    And the neurologist at the ER could tell immediately that I was having a stroke, even before I had a CT. And of course, they gave me a CT, they found a tear on the inside lining of my right vertebral artery, the blood had clotted to heal that tear.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 6:53

                                                    And that’s what caused my stroke. So I just always tell that first part of the story because, if I had listened to the EMT, and not gone to the hospital, my deficits probably would have been far greater. Maybe I wouldn’t have ever made it to the hospital, maybe that would have been the end of my life.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 7:16

                                                    So even if I had been wrong, you know, even if I hadn’t been having a stroke, I think it’s important that we learn how to listen to our bodies that we trust ourselves. You know, because if I hadn’t made them take me to the hospital, even more than what I might have faced having a stroke was what would have happened to my self-trust, there would have been a huge thing in it.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 7:49

                                                    So that’s just really an important part of what saved my life and what made my experience what it is. And so, no matter what, if you think you’re having a stroke or something’s wrong, listen to yourself, go to the hospital get help, no matter what anybody says.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 8:06

                                                    Yeah, how old were you?

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 8:09

                                                    35 years old. Yeah. And so that was certainly part of it. For the EMT, I was very young. My stroke was caused by a neck injury. I had had a chiropractic adjustment four days prior, which was very painful. And I had been having headaches leading up to the stroke.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 8:30

                                                    I had been taking large quantities of ibuprofen to kind of get through those headaches. And it was on the day that I that I said, I can’t keep I can’t keep taking this medicine. I’m not going to take anything today. That was the day that I had the stroke.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 8:45

                                                    Yeah. So did the blood clot break off after it had formed? And causing ischemic stroke? Or did it close the deductive form and therefore decrease the size of the blood being able to pass through the artery?

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 9:05

                                                    I think it was the second option. Because the stroke happened near my brainstem and at my cerebellum. So I don’t know if it broke off or not. I don’t, I don’t know. That’s a great question.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 9:22

                                                    It sounds like it would have, a lot of medical background and I know all of your situation. So my conclusion. And maybe you’ll concur or not, is that it sounds like if it was a vertebral artery dissection, and it happened near your brainstem, then perhaps something broke off and moved up and then caused a blockage a little further up with the blood vessels are narrower.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 9:50

                                                    And that might have been it. So you’ve done a couple of things a little differently. Well, If you ask for help, but more importantly, you go against supposedly medical professional advice, where most people do the exact opposite, they don’t get help. And they do listen to the medical doctors because that’s fair enough most of the time they’re correct.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 10:22

                                                    And did you have some kind of a sick feeling? A sixth sense? Was it your gut telling you? What was telling you? Or was it completely obvious to you that something was going wrong? Well, I know there was. But sometimes there’s a disconnect with a stroke survivor having a stroke. And because they’re having a stroke in their brain, and there’s a disconnect between reality, and they can’t see the obvious.

                                                    The ability to listen to your body – Abigail Atkinson


                                                    Abigail Atkinson 10:51
                                                    Yeah. Well, I think part of it was that I truly believed I was dying. I was talking to God, and asking him to take care of my children. And I was, like, very, very certain that this was my death. And the other part of it, I think, is I had just started teaching yoga, and I had a yoga practice for over a decade at the time of the stroke, and something.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 11:23

                                                    When you practice yoga, you’re in a relationship with your body. And we’re constantly spreading the message to you know, tune into your body, listen to the messages of your body. And I believe that because I was getting on my mat every day and practicing listening to my body. When something like this happens. I was ready to go ahead and listen to my body. And I’m so grateful for that.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 11:52

                                                    So how long did you spend in the hospital? And what were your deficits when you were released?

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 11:59

                                                    I was in the hospital for a month. I spent a week in the ICU. You know, it’s I love that you asked this question because at first, I didn’t know what deficits I had other than visual, I had nystagmus, I had constant nystagmus. I had a horizontal shake of my eyes that you could watch that you could see. And so I knew that.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 12:22

                                                    Because when my mom came to the hospital, it bothered her. But I was in the ICU. So I was in bed, I was able to talk, and I had fine motor skills. And so aside from vision, I wasn’t sure. I was just so grateful to be alive. It wasn’t until about four days in when two physical therapists came up to my room. And they were coming to take me on my first walk.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 12:52

                                                    And so one, they sent me up in the bed and one gets on either side of me, and they helped me up to a standing position. So I go to take a step, and my right leg does not respond. It was the weirdest feeling to like, one-day practicing yoga, and the next day, I couldn’t walk. So I kind of did this little zombie shuffle down the hall with the help of these physical therapists.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 13:20

                                                    I mean, I didn’t get very far, maybe 10 feet, exhausting how to turn around and come back. And that was the first time I realized I would have some real deficits to work with. So I had large motor skill deficits. And because of the cerebellum, I had a lot of balance issues I’ve had a lot I still have vestibular issues, lots of vision problems that I’ve worked on over the years.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 13:46

                                                    I did do tests in the hospital because people who have had a stroke whereas I do often can’t swallow or deal with difficulty speaking. And that didn’t happen for me I met I might have become a little slower spitting out some words. But aside from that, I was pretty much a cog. I passed all the cognitive tests.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 14:10

                                                    So in the hospital for about a month, I did do some inpatient rehab in the hospital, physical therapy, and occupational therapy, and I was sent home with a walker so I used a walker for several months. Even after I wasn’t using that Walker, I still had a very toxic gait that caused a lot of hip and knee pain, especially when trying to walk at night or over uneven terrain or you know if there’s a lot of movement happening around me anything sort of stimulating my visual field would make just throw me off balance.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 14:50

                                                    So it took a lot of work for me to reach my gate. I was very lucky to have access to it. Physical and occupational therapists, even beyond my hospital stay. And I know that a lot of people don’t have that. I also had my yoga practice, which, clearly I couldn’t do yoga in the same way I had to kind of figure out how am I going to adapt my yoga practice to fit my poststroke body when I can’t even stand. I did have my physical therapist come out.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 15:23

                                                    And to my house three times a week, I had an occupational therapist come out once a week and I had a nurse come out to check my INR. Remember, my INR levels were kind of all over the place, it took a while. You’re like you’re the blood thinning, like getting my blood thin enough.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 15:41

                                                    So I was on Coumadin for about six months, and even though I didn’t have any blood clotting factor, physically very healthy. They still wanted me to be on that while the dissection was healing. So I did do that for six months. So I feel really, like really grateful that I had access to resources to help me in my recovery.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 16:08

                                                    I have a sense that it’s a little difficult for you to talk about what happened in the past. Did I get that right? Or is it okay for you to chat about what happened in the past?

                                                    Abigail Atkinson getting back to yoga after the stroke

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 16:19

                                                    It’s okay for me to chat about it. I have shared a lot. I’ve shared this story. So many times. And certainly, emotions still come up, you know, when you go back there. And remember, I told you yoga was part of my recovery. I was so determined to get back to my yoga practice while I was at the hospital.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 16:42

                                                    I had my sister bring a picture of me in a challenging yoga pose, and hang it up on the wall. So I could just be, motivated to work hard, because those first, those first weeks and months are challenging.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 16:59

                                                    For me, brain fatigue was severe, like I had to sleep a lot. I also had nystagmus. So that’s akin to feeling like you’re on a constant spinning ride. So I was always throwing up. It was it’s just your whole world becomes disoriented. When you have something like this happen to you. And I yeah, I’m grateful that I had access to all the things that helped me.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 17:32

                                                    Yeah. How did you manage the home situation with the children? How old were they at the time?

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 17:38

                                                    Okay, so you’re gonna love this. I was living in Salt Lake City, Utah at the time. And I had the stroke in Provo, which is like 45 minutes south. And I never went back to my house in Salt Lake City. I moved into my boyfriend’s home. And three weeks after I got home from the hospital, we got married, I had a hospital bed proposal, the sweetest thing ever.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 18:04

                                                    He had four children, I had three. So we had a lot of kids. And again, super grateful that we had a lot of help. We had a nanny, help us for a long time my mom used to come out I knew because I needed a caretaker for a while after as well. She helped take me around to all the various appointments because they revoked my license in the hospital.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 18:27

                                                    And let me tell you what, I’m so grateful for all of the caretakers in my life like being chauffeured around to all It’s really hard to lose your freedoms, you know, to not be able to drive yourself anywhere, to have somebody have to go into the bathroom with you when you’re using the bathroom. And so it makes you very, like humble, like humble.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 18:51

                                                    And for me very grateful, grateful that I had people willing to help care for my well being grateful for my life. Yeah, that’s what it was like on the homefront. So we had helped with the kids, and it was not easy. Like we all had to adapt. And especially it was a new marriage. So we were not just adapting to my situation, but blending a family, which was challenging. We can laugh about it now.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 19:26

                                                    Yeah. I mean, you have to laugh about it now because there’s no point in doing anything else about it. That’s the interesting thing about stroke. I’ve said it before, but life goes on around you. So life doesn’t stop because you had a stroke or because something happened to your leg or whatever it just goes on.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 19:46

                                                    And that’s often the hardest part people often felt times with conditions I felt like I wished everyone could just pause all of the drama. I wish everyone could pause all of the problems that we had before. and all the things that we need to fix and solve and do because I just need time to myself if I could just go away.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 20:06

                                                    And everything else that I had to deal with just wasn’t there, I could just work on getting better and resting and then not being too fatigued. And then sleeping as long as I needed and, and doing all that stuff. Of course, that’s not possible. But I had lovely periods to myself when the kids went to school and when my wife was at work, and there was no one coming over to visit or do anything.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 20:32

                                                    And I could have 3, 4, 5 hours a day where it was just me in my house and the cat. And it was really good, even though then there were often days where I missed all of the other things, which were being able to drive, being able to be independent, getting out and about, and doing the things I needed to do.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 20:54

                                                    And then there was a little bit of a situation with my balance as well that there was a fear around, not by me, but by other people, there was a fear around the fact that I might fall over and hurt myself because my walking wasn’t perfect. I did not get sent home with a walking frame or anything like that, because I was rehabilitated enough so that I could walk at the end of inpatient therapy.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 21:19

                                                    But, I did take a couple of tumbles inside the house, getting up from the couch, not realizing that my left leg was still sleepy. And not being used to the new way that I had to let it know, so to speak, that I was about to get up. And it needed to hold me up instead of collapse.

                                                    The advantage of Abigail Atkinson having years of yoga practice


                                                    Bill Gasiamis 21:42
                                                    So I took a few tumbles, but it was really lovely to have space and seven kids. Yeah, that’s amazing, a lot of space, not a lot of space. That’s amazing and I know, you just get through it, and you find a way, I think that your discipline of yoga played a role in your ability to be able to get through all of this stuff.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 22:12

                                                    I’ve got a couple of suspicions as to why and then you might tell me some of your own because I think the ability to do the poses that somebody has practiced, for example, for 10 years in yoga, and to be so Intune. Understanding the movements of the body and the way limbs work, etc, I would say creates a massive additional number of neurological pathways towards movement, balance, strength, and the process of just moving your body.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 22:48

                                                    So I feel like people who do yoga or something like that a discipline like that have got an advantage physiologically recently. Man, I’m not sure how long it’s been in the last sort of 12 months, not even, maybe nine months since a friend of mine’s daughter had an arteriovenous malformation burst in her head, same condition as me almost in the same place.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 23:15

                                                    And she was a diver before that. So as she goes through the process of diving, she has to be aware of how her body where in space it is, and how it moves. And, I feel like that’s helped her in her recovery because she’s had an amazing recovery, although she still suffers from fatigue and all the stuff that all stroke survivors experience.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 23:37

                                                    She has deficits in her sensory neurons. And she has some motor neuron challenges. But I feel like one of the best things I could do to encourage them to feel good about the possibility of recovery was her age. She was 17. And also, she was a diver. And I felt like she already had a massive advantage over the majority of just upright standing and walking kind of people. Does that make sense?

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 24:10

                                                    Yeah, absolutely. And I would agree. First of all, I have to say, I’m so glad you mentioned the whole like needing space and time for yourself because it was challenging and still is sometimes being overstimulated, like it just wears you down. And even now, I appreciate having some alone time, some nonstimulation time.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 24:34

                                                    So I relate to that part of it for sure. And I do agree. I think that that having a disciplined yoga practice for as long as I did, helped me helped me in all the ways that you said plus, I already was in the habit of sticking to a daily discipline. So I follow through on my physical and occupational therapy.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 24:59

                                                    I found actually that when I did, what I call little yoga snacks, I would take local yoga snacks where I would do some of my therapy stuff. And I would go for like five or 10 minutes and then rest. And then I would do that several times a day. So I focused on frequency more than just a big long duration. When I kind of switched to that strategy, I made significantly faster improvements. So I thought that was kind of interesting. But part of that was, yeah, showing up every single day and working hard.

                                                    Intro 25:36

                                                    If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind, like, how long will it take to recover? Will I recover? What things should I avoid? If I make matters worse, and doctors will explain things that, you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask. If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery.

                                                    Intro 26:06

                                                    If you’re finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you it’s called Seven Questions to Ask Your Doctor about your Stroke. These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition, but they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery, add to the website now, recoveryafterstroke.com and download the guide. It’s free.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 26:39

                                                    Even when I felt tired, and certainly that discipline aspect helped me in a yoga posture, you’re in the practice of yoga, you’re in all sorts of different relationships to gravity. So you have to like it challenges your proprioception.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 26:59

                                                    And so I like to think that I had like, stronger neural pathways, even though it felt like all of that just like went out the window when I had the stroke, because like my proprioception I mean, it’s still not 100% the same. But I think all those things were an advantage physically for sure.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 27:23

                                                    Yeah, proprioception has the same issue. It has deficits and my body doesn’t particularly always know exactly where it is in the world. And that’s where the balance issue occurs. And I kind of lean to the left and then I keep going and the body has to kind of correct itself and get back into balance and stop me from falling.

                                                    Having yoga snacks throughout the day

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 27:46

                                                    And what I liked about what you said is how much time for example is allocated to rehabilitation, like physical therapy an hour a day, maybe twice a week or three times a week. How much extra do you think of those little yoga snacks, I love that the word yoga snacks was added to your therapy because I think more therapy more often is going to support how much additional time yoga yoga snacks add.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 28:24

                                                    Oh, probably a couple of hours worth. You know, because I would sometimes it was two minutes, five minutes, 10 minutes, and I would just sprinkle it throughout the day all day long. And like I said, when I started doing that I had the most significant improvements with my walk, especially. I remember I had these four-inch high-heeled boots.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 28:51

                                                    And I was like, I set myself a goal I’m going to I’m going to be able to walk in these boots again. And I was able to even though now I don’t wear heels at all because I know I can like I had to continue to study to improve my gait and I did this year-long biomechanics course, with Katie Bowman.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 29:08

                                                    She’s a renowned biomechanist in the US and like everything I learned, I was like never wearing high heels again, never, never worked in any shoe that has any sort of elevation in it again. But I mean, I’m so grateful for the physical and occupational therapy, but I have to be honest, too.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 29:28

                                                    It wasn’t just the frequency. It was also like I went and studied biomechanics and worked on my walking parts worked on my lateral muscles, stretching my calf muscles, rehabilitating my feet doing lots of standing foot massage with balls, you know, waking up those nerve endings. I also did adaptive yoga training with Matthew Sanford.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 29:52

                                                    He’s kind of the leading pioneer of adaptive yoga in the US. He’s a paraplegic. And I started I kept I after I was in December. literally for a year, but I did go back to work after a year teaching yoga, just teaching yoga. I teach lots of adaptive yoga now. And all of that extra study, I think was very helpful for me as well.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 30:14

                                                    Because I mean, of course, the physical therapy was helping me with my walk. And the occupational therapist was helping me with a lot of the visual and vestibular stuff. Even though I threw up on my occupational therapist more than once, I feel so bad for her. But these extra modalities made all the difference for me.

                                                    The neuro-vision therapy program

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 30:34

                                                    And I have to tell you this one thing, I just wish everybody knew about this who has a stroke, especially if you have balance or visual issues with your brain injury. That was when I did a neuro-vision therapy program. And it wasn’t until eight years post-stroke that I did this program. No doctor ever told me about it. Nobody in the hospital no neurologist I ever saw.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 30:57

                                                    Even the ophthalmologist I went to was one of the best in the country at the Moran Center at the University of Utah. Nobody was like, Hey, you might benefit from a neuro-vision therapy program. It was at my stroke support group that a neurooptometrist came and did a presentation on his program. And of course, he was trying to sell this program, but oh my gosh, I was like, everything he said is everything I need right now.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 31:27

                                                    It was a six-month program and wasn’t easy. My vision significantly improved after I did this, my depth perception increased, and my peripheral vision got so much better. I was able to start hiking without feeling like the mountain was trying to pull me off, I had less anxiety driving.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 31:51

                                                    You know, after eight years I had been driving again. And like I was like, why didn’t nobody tell me about the sooner? Why did I just randomly come across this? I feel like there’s just so many therapies out there. And, you know, beyond physical and occupational and I just wish everybody knew all the options.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 32:11

                                                    Who is the person who provided that neuro-vision therapy program?

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 32:18

                                                    It was Dr. Devin Duvall. And he’s in Provo, Utah. six-month program, phenomenal program. Now there’s also there’s a place called cognitive effects here in Provo as well. People are traveling to from all over the world to come and do an intensive program with them. And I teach yoga there. That’s how I know about it. It’s only been around since like 2014, I think when it started.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 32:49

                                                    So it wasn’t available for me back when I had my stroke. Even adaptive yoga wasn’t something available to me. I remember going back to my first yoga class and having to take my walker with me. And it was hard. It was lonely. I miss my yoga community. Now, adaptive Yoga is spreading like wildfire.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 33:11

                                                    I’m teaching eight adaptive yoga classes a week and I get all sorts of folks. People with Ms. Parkinson’s, stroke, TBI, amputees, you know, just I get a wide variety of folks in these classes. And I’m like, Yes, yoga is for everyone. And it can supplement your other recovery efforts, it can complement your physical and occupational therapy. And here’s the thing about yoga too, I just want to say this is all of the physical benefits for sure.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 33:44

                                                    But when you have a major trauma like this, maybe you can relate you it feels a little bit like you get betrayed by your body, like your body is just suddenly not functioning like it used to, it’s a really hard thing to come to terms with. Yoga was something that helped me repair my relationship with my body, strengthen that mind-body connection, and just like feel a hole in the body that I have now post-stroke. You know, it gave me it kind of gave me that space to grieve my, you know, pre-stroke, Abby, and make myself open and available to this new life post-stroke.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 34:29

                                                    I don’t doubt it. Look, this was weird. Many people will come on the podcast and they will talk to me about grief and their old life and their old stroke body and all that kind of stuff. And I get it. I get it. But I didn’t go through it. I’ve never done yeah, I’ve never done it. And, weirdly, I’ve never done it and I don’t know maybe I don’t have to do it.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 34:54

                                                    But my body’s different than what it was half of it feels like somebody else’s body, and the other half feels like my original body. And I suppose because I’m capable of doing all the things that I was doing before, the important things, I can’t play a sport like I used to play or anything like that. But I suppose also because I look, quote-unquote, normal, according to everybody else.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 35:23

                                                    I didn’t experience that. Why did my body do this? Or why did this happen to me or whatever? And I suppose my condition was something I was born with. So when it bled, I discovered what it was why, why these things bleed, and how they bleed, etc. And, I think I created some of the I created the perfect storm around the bleed so that I wasn’t looking after myself, I wasn’t doing all the things that I was doing.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 35:56

                                                    So all I did was just take responsibility for the stuff that I’d done before that caused the perfect storm to exist. So the bleed can occur and the blood vessel can burst. And then, and then I just moved on with what I needed to do to get better. And I don’t focus necessarily on the past, although I forever talk about the past. But I talked about it in context, to the stories that people share on my podcast, and so that we can make a conversation of this whole thing.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 36:31

                                                    But I feel like the fact that I’ve talked about it so much has put it in the past, in a part of my life that’s so far away. 2012, as well, it started for me. And, and, I reflect on it as something that happened to me. And I don’t reflect on it as something that I’m reliving every day of my life when I talk about it, and I share about it. But I do truly appreciate the fact that there are people who will have to go through the morning phase.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 37:09

                                                    And if they haven’t done that yet, they will still be stuck in some kind of a weird space of not knowing how to respond to the condition that caused the stroke and then the deficits and how it’s changed their life. I did a few extracurricular activities to show you how you found a way to access different parts of your body so that you can rehabilitate and do more therapy, I did visualization and meditation.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 37:46

                                                    I found that what the visualization helped me do when I was in my hospital bed waiting to go to physical therapy for the first time, I imagined myself walking, and I would see myself walking down the corridor of the hospital with a perfect gait, imperfect strides, and perfect planting of my foot. So that the neurological pathways that we needed to recreate or wake up, I feel like we needed to both recreate them and wake them up.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 38:18

                                                    I gave them something already, like a possibility of what it could be like and if you just know what that looks like, then you can work towards it. And I saw myself doing that. I also used the kind of guy with whom I needed information, the more information about my condition, the better I understand it, the better.

                                                    What is the next step?

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 38:44

                                                    And then once I understand it, I can come to terms with it. And I can feel like I can do the cognitive part of the acceptance, which is our Okay, so I was a guy who was born with this, this thing does that. And then the fact that that did that. Sometimes it causes these things. And now, I’ve found myself here.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 39:08

                                                    Okay, what’s the next step I’ve got to take responsibility for my recovery because the doctors have done what they can. And now it’s up to me, it sounds like you’re an up-to-you kind of person. It’s like, you know, I’m going to take this on, I’m going to do my bit because I’ve got the skill set.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 39:27

                                                    And what I’m also going to do is hopefully lead by example, and show other people how they can still, even though they have deficits and missing a leg or an arm, they can be active members of a community. They can still participate. They can turn up, they can learn, they can grow. They could do all the things that they used to do before in this new body or different body.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 39:55

                                                    Yeah, I couldn’t say it better myself like you’re changed by what happens to you, and to be able to live whole in that body and in that life is something that we all deserve access to, which is why I really love adaptive yoga and yeah, definitely, with you on taking responsibility and doing more, yeah, to be more, because I was like I said, that mindset is the mind is so powerful, right?

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 40:24

                                                    I love that you were doing those visualizations. I know that for some people, it’s like, hard to get out of bed and hard to do the work. But like, truly believing that you have the capability and that your body and brain want to heal is something that will change the whole experience for you, even if you don’t heal all your deficits.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 40:50

                                                    And I’m very fortunate, I would say that I’m like, 90%, you know, I saw as I said, I still have some vestibular and some visual stuff, that nobody like you, nobody looking at me could ever tell that I had a stroke. You know, if they didn’t know, my history.

                                                    The importance of emotional healing


                                                    Bill Gasiamis 41:06
                                                    And the other thing I wanted to mention about healing was emotional healing is important. You know, I feel like it’s overlooked. And mentally, they’re both overlooked and people need to go there, and tell me about my healing. I feel like my healing also had another benefit. Before I was 37, before my first blade, I was probably in therapy for about 12 years.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 41:34

                                                    So I had dealt with a lot of those things that people grow up with and have to overcome and whatever, in therapy for 12 years. So by the time I got to stroke, I was dealing with stroke stuff, I wasn’t dealing with past emotional traumas, and burdens and all that kind of stuff. What was your did you go through an emotional healing as well?

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 42:00

                                                    I think so, I had already started that path not quite as far along as you were, but I had, like hired health coaches. And, you know, part of that is dealing with emotional well-being as well. So had started that and really, the yoga practice gave me the space to allow me to kind of move emotions through as well to take a look at emotions.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 42:27

                                                    , one of the things that surprises me now, but I can see that joining a stroke TBI support group being in support group was huge for my emotional well-being because I feel very alone, it’s very hard for your loved ones, and your friends to truly understand what you’re going through.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 42:48

                                                    Like you said, life is going on all around you and you’re like, wait a second here I just had this major stroke my whole world is turned upside down. So going to a stroke support group was just incredible. I made lots of connections with people with all vast kinds of different stories but who could understand where it was coming from?

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 43:12

                                                    I gained access to resources I wouldn’t have found otherwise. You know, I found that a neuro-vision doctor I found was in Adaptive Sports, they took me skiing for the first time when I went skiing. And it just made it I just made it fun. So that was that was huge for me for my emotional well-being. Yeah, I was I was reaching out and having a support group, I still I still go to that support group.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 43:44

                                                    And kind of along the lines of what you said about how you’ve shared your story so many times, it allowed you to put it into the past, I feel the same the more I share my story. It’s like each time I share a little part of me like hills. And you know my life now compared to what it was like before I had the stroke is completely different.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 44:07

                                                    I find that even though I would never wish something like this on somebody, I have benefited from the experience. I’m a much more empathetic and compassionate person. I’m a healthier person emotionally. I enjoy life more. It’s like when you’re faced with a mortal crisis. You see and feel viscerally what’s truly important and what just silly things that used to bother you don’t matter anymore. And that particular I think mindset also helped me heal emotionally.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 44:47

                                                    Yeah, it’s benefited me. I mean, the guy before the stroke, didn’t do stuff like this didn’t talk about emotions, didn’t have a podcast, didn’t meet people from all around the world didn’t coach people didn’t encourage people didn’t do any of that stuff just went about life. One track, work, work, work. And, you know, more work and angry and unhealthy and eating unwell and just not the right kind of version of myself that was going to sustain me for many, many years to come.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 45:25

                                                    It was going to be short-lived, whether it was short-lived, because of the AVM bleeding or because of some other condition. I’m sure I was manifesting other conditions and stuff that weren’t going to be useful. I’ve had so many friends that lived my lifestyle, that are not with us anymore. Because they didn’t have a stroke, they had some other condition that, you know, in their 40s were it was enough for their condition to finish them off in their 40s.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 45:57

                                                    And I see myself as being that guy. And if it wasn’t for this thing that bled in my head, I probably would have continued down that path because I didn’t know any better. And that was my circle. That was the people I hung out with. They were great people. We just had habits that we thought were okay when we picked them up in our teens and 20s.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 46:22

                                                    And we thought we should just keep going with them for as long as possible. Because once upon a time they served us all. Well, they didn’t really but we thought they served us in the we enjoyed, for example, smoking and drinking excessively and eating unhealthily and it kind of made me grow up. I feel like this stroke made me grow up even at 37. I felt like I was I reflected down and felt like I was naive and nonworldly.

                                                    Post-traumatic growth after stroke during yoga

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 47:00

                                                    Yeah, yeah, I can relate to everything he said, got rid of some unhealthy habits for sure. After there’s, you know, you hear of post-traumatic stress disorder, PTSD that people get when they have these traumas happen. And I came across the term post-traumatic growth. And for some of us, yeah, it is the trigger the catalyst that helps us turn our life into something more beautiful, healthier. I mean, look what you’re doing, creating this platform for people to share these stories to talk them through and to help inspire and coach people. And yeah, post-traumatic growth is definitely how I would describe my stroke for sure.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 47:45

                                                    Yes. So this post-traumatic growth concept came to me as well, probably about five or six years ago, somewhere online, I read about it, someone had written an article or a story about it or a book about it. And I thought, yeah, that relate, I relate to that that relates to me, that’s what I’ve had. And I remember early on in the Podcast, the podcast has been going up, not since about 2017, properly, where I have been interviewing people on and off about different things.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 48:19

                                                    And at some stage, I think, before the 100th episode, I was talking to people in the podcast, and we both sort of said, lock strikes the best thing that happened to me. And I thought, well, that’s a bit weird. I mean, how could that be? And then you unpack that a little bit, and you start to see similarities in people.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 48:39

                                                    I reached out to the people who follow me on Instagram and asked if there were people there who agreed to that. And some of them would say that I haven’t been there yet. I haven’t got there exactly yet. But there were some benefits, etc. And we’re talking about people throughout the stroke spectrum with all the different versions of deficits or not.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 49:00

                                                    And then there were at least 12 people who reached out and said, the extracts were the best thing that happened to me as well. So I interviewed them. And that became the pattern that we revealed in all the things that we did that got us to be able to say that stroke was the best thing that happened to us became the basis of the book that I just finished writing that’s going to be published in a few months.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 49:27

                                                    Oh, cool. I can’t wait to see it.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 49:30

                                                    Yeah. Right. And, that’s the thing about it. I hope that what the title does, which is The Unexpected Way That A Stroke Became The Best Thing That Happened To Me. I hope that what it does is jolts people so that they can now get curious about what we just said, what his post-traumatic growth thing and whether am I doing it. Am I in it? Is it happening to me at the moment, or is it still to happen? You know, where where is it? For me, where is what phase of the post-traumatic growth part am I in? And hopefully, what that does is inspire them to go after post-traumatic growth.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 50:11

                                                    Yeah, that’s so beautifully said, I love all the questions that you asked because it is about getting curious. And you’re investigating just like you’re investigating your new body and trying to help it heal. You’re also investigating your life, your thought patterns, and your choices. And yeah, it gets to be a pivotal moment where you get to turn things around for yourself if you want to. And that’s a beautiful thing.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 50:38

                                                    Yeah. And you get to turn things around for yourself if you want to. My God, what a comment what a statement. That’s so true. Because if you don’t want to, you’ll get those results, you’ll end up having post-traumatic stress disorder, which, you know, might even be something that some people are facing right now. And what they might need is they might need a path out of it.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 51:06

                                                    Because a lot of the times when you hear about post-traumatic stress disorder, it’s kind of like they’re talking about I have, I’m in it, I’m experiencing, I’m living it, it comes up. But there might be a path out of it. And now maybe you can experience post-traumatic stress disorder, and then, and then grow out of that, and then be able to reflect on your situation. And rather than it triggering you, you’re like us remembering it as something that happened in the past. And you’re using it to inspire people and share possibilities of recovery and growth and overcoming.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 51:47

                                                    Yeah, because it’s all there for the taking, like you said if you choose it if you want it. And of course, there are lots of little practices that can help you from sharing your story. I mean, I can’t imagine how healing having a podcast and talking to how I don’t know what episode you’re on, but you’re well over 100 how many people.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 52:08

                                                    This will be about 271 I think.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 52:10

                                                    So amazing. And I know lots of stroke survivors if you want more people to talk to you.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 52:17

                                                    Well, yeah, I encourage people at the beginning of every podcast episode is the invitation. If you’ve had a stroke, you want to share a story in the hope that it will help somebody, inspire somebody, even if it helps you the stroke survivor sharing, get off your chest. That’s it, you’re qualifying. I don’t care what your race or religious background is. I don’t care about anything.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 52:39

                                                    All you need to do to qualify is be a stroke survivor, care for a stroke survivor, or you’re one of the amazing people on the planet that helps stroke survivors. And that’s it. You’re going to be a guest on my podcast Dr. Devin Duvall. You can give me his details. I’m going to get him on the podcast.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 52:58

                                                    Yes, I would love to do that.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 53:01

                                                    Because I’ve never heard of that therapy.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 53:04

                                                    Oh my gosh, neither had I and it changed so much for me eight years post-stroke. I was like, people got to hear about this.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 53:15

                                                    And I have so many people on the podcast, who experienced the stigmas because of this struggle, visual field loss, and all the things that go along with it. And I feel like this is exactly what I need from my podcast guests.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 53:38

                                                    I need their story, their information so that we can disseminate it, and we can get it out there and we can help people get better. That’s what I was missing. I don’t know what it was like for you in 2012. Was there anything that you came across that was related to stroke recovery in this kind of way?

                                                    Lack of stroke support information for Abigail Atkinson


                                                    Abigail Atkinson 53:59
                                                    No, it was only physical and occupational therapy that was offered to me. That’s it. Everything else I found through doing my research, the biomechanics, the adaptive yoga, the neurovision, the balance therapy, I just feel like yeah, this information and the possibilities do need to get disseminated out there.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 54:27

                                                    I think that our social media world today helps to spread that knowledge more whereas you know, in 2012 I think Instagram was just barely a thing. So you know, there’s a lot more opportunity for thing for things to be shared in this way. But that’s why I love that you’re doing it so people can feel into you know what might be something that works for them because our body and brain are always malleable till we take our last breath Even almost 12 years post-stroke, I see small improvements.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 55:07

                                                    You know, the big improvements happen that those first couple of years, right, and the longer I go out, the more subtle those improvements are. But if I stop, and I pay attention, and I watch, and I’m mindful, I can see those little improvements, little improvements in strength, little improvements in balance. And I know that I’ll continue to recover until my dying day does recovery, even if it’s, yeah, even if it’s just like with mental health to be I wish mental health was part of the therapy. Why not?

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 55:44

                                                    I think that’s the biggest thing for me. Honestly, my mental health practice now has been, oh, man, it’s probably been 20-plus years. And I do not know where I would be if I hadn’t done that for 20 years. Because I have a complicated mind, and some things that are obvious to me, bother me. And I need somebody to bring me down off the ledge, so to speak, every so often, once a month, you know, and I go there.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 56:21

                                                    And people think that it’s, you know, strange and difficult to talk to somebody about your feelings, and I talk about my feelings, or just talk about general things that drive me bananas. And I need somebody to not judge me and just give me another perspective and change the thought into something constructive, rather than destructive.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 56:41

                                                    And it’s not that I’m dysfunctional in the world, it’s that I would have been dysfunctional in the world if it wasn’t for the therapy. And then it helps me deal with serious life issues like friends passing away. And the last thing I need to be carrying is all the trauma of all the things that have ever gone wrong in my life, into the next decade in the decade after that, and after that, I’d rather just settle them and then leave them in the past so that I can take on the next challenge with as many resources as possible so that I can again, deal with that, and then kind of try and move forward and leave it in the past.

                                                    The hardest thing about stroke for Abigail Atkinson

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 57:26

                                                    So I completely agree with that. As we approach the end of the episode, I’d like to ask you three questions that I’ve started asking my stroke survivors whom I interview. And the first question is, what’s the hardest thing about stroke?

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 57:47

                                                    Okay, well, for me, I think the hardest thing was feeling. Gosh, this is such a great question. I was a yogi, and the hardest thing for me was losing my physical ability to practice yoga, that motivated me to get back to my yoga practice and to feel reconnected to my body. It was devastating for me not to be able to go to yoga me not to be able to do a standing posture. And that may sound silly to some people.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 58:22

                                                    But, you know, like your therapy practice before helped you. That’s how my yoga practice was, for me my outlet for stress relief, it was, you know, for physical well being Yes, it was mental and emotional health for me. And when that changed, it was hard for me to come to terms with that.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 58:45

                                                    And it also transformed my yoga practice and helped me realize that yoga truly is for everybody, no matter what your physical deficits are, or what you’ve been through. It helped my yoga practice become even stronger, even deeper than it was before. So even though that was the hardest thing, it turned out to be one of the more beautiful things as well.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 59:10

                                                    It sounds like what it did was help your identity evolve, but yoga doesn’t look like this. I am still a yogi, even though I can’t do it the way that I was doing it. And therefore my identity doesn’t have to be left behind.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 59:28

                                                    Yeah, identity-based. And I didn’t have to leave my identity behind but I had to be willing to let it transform. And that’s the beauty of life. The more you allow things to transform, the more you can carry on just like you did be able to move on.

                                                    What has stroke taught you?

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 59:46

                                                    What has stroke taught you?

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 59:51

                                                    Where do I begin? Stroke has taught me that now is the time. Now is the time to do the thing you love. Now is the time to take care of yourself. We don’t know, if we get to tomorrow, the time on our planet, even though it’s hard for us to put it into perspective is so short.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 1:00:20

                                                    Stroke has taught me to slow down and be present with what is right now what’s happening right now the sun filtering in through my window, the conversation we’re having in this moment. And truly enjoying the richness and vividness of life in the moment.

                                                    A message to other stroke survivors

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:39

                                                    Yeah, perfect. What do you want to tell other people who have had a stroke who might be listening to this and I have not moved as far along the recovery path as we might have?

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 1:00:54

                                                    Giving up is not an option. I would say, keep showing up, keep showing up, and you winning, reach out, and get into a support group. You know, take it one day at a time and for me in the beginning. You know, take it just this morning. And then just this afternoon, you know, split your day up however much you need to, to make progress. And, you know, be ever so gentle and tender with yourself. practice compassion for yourself just as much as you would for somebody else as you as you figure all this stuff out.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:33

                                                    That’s a cool one, I love that practice compassion for yourself as much as you would for somebody else. I love that people do. Struggle with self-compassion and self-loathing is a bloody thing. And I don’t like that self-loathing is a thing. But I can appreciate why sometimes perhaps it’s a thing.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:55

                                                    And if it’s motivating somebody to move from behaving in a way that causes self-loathing, and to change the way that you go about your own life and then you start to love yourself, then I can accept self-loathing. But yeah, self-compassion is such a beautiful gift. It costs nothing to give it to yourself.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 1:02:19

                                                    And it lets you, like you said, have those moments of self-loathing and frustration and anger and whatever difficult emotion arises, but then you get to have compassion with that as showing up. And not let it take you down.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:02:33

                                                    Yeah. You know what I love about this podcast episode, amongst everything that we’ve discussed. It’s a fabulous conversation that I first reached out to you, for you to join me on the podcast in 2019. On the 28th of September in 2019. And somehow, you found the message a year later, and then you said, Yeah, I’d love to be on the podcast. And then I responded, a year after that.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:14

                                                    That’s the longest lead-up to a podcast ever. And, more importantly, we were good at responding and getting back to each other a year after each message somehow.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 1:03:35

                                                    It is kind of funny how that happened. And you know what, I think it’s just so cool that we still responded, oh, it’s been a year. Oops, I’m still gonna respond. It’s okay. So it was just meant to be now.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:46

                                                    It was absolutely. So thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. I appreciate it.

                                                    Abigail Atkinson 1:03:51

                                                    Such a pleasure getting to know you and being here. Thank you for holding space for my story. I appreciate that.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:00

                                                    Well, thanks for joining us on today’s episode. Remember, to grab a copy of chapter one of the book The Unexpected Way That a Stroke Became the Best Thing that Happened just visit recoveryafterstroke.com/book. Take a look around and discover what the book is all about and click the Download free chapter button.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:19

                                                    As always, to learn more about my guests, including links to their social media and other pages. And to download a full transcript of the entire interview. Please go to recoveryafterstroke.com/episodes. To all those people who have already left the review. Thank you so much. It means the world to me and you are helping others in need of this type of content to find it easier, and that is making their stroke recovery just a little bit better.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:45

                                                    If you haven’t left a review yet and would like to. The best way to do it is to leave a five-star review and a few words about what the show means to you on iTunes and Spotify. If you’re watching on YouTube, comment below the video I love seeing your comments and I try to respond to all of them. Like the episode and to get notifications of future episodes, subscribe to the channel and hit the notifications Bell. Thanks again for being here and listening. I appreciate you see you on the next episode.

                                                    Intro 1:05:15

                                                    Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals. The opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast are the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed.

                                                    Intro 1:05:32

                                                    All content on this website at any linked blog, podcast, or video material controlled by this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis, the content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing.

                                                    Intro 1:05:49

                                                    It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice the information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances, or health objectives. Do not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose treat, cure, or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional.

                                                    Intro 1:06:10

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                                                    Intro 1:06:34

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                                                    Intro 1:06:47

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                                                    The post Stroke During Yoga | Abigail Atkinson appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

                                                    1 hr 8 min
                                                  • Lower Basal Ganglia Stroke Recovery | Kevin R. Housman

                                                    Kevin R. Housman was undergoing brain surgery to rectify a hand tremor and experienced a Lower Basal Ganglia Stroke while the procedure was being performed.

                                                    Instagram

                                                    01:11 Bill’s Book

                                                    03:30 What happened to Kevin R. Housman
                                                    08:39 Hand tremors and surgery options
                                                    14:19 After the procedure
                                                    21:50 Stroke recovery and treatment options
                                                    28:45 Bipolar disorder and stroke recovery
                                                    39:45 Depression and mental health
                                                    45:26 Managing depression and returning to work after a stroke
                                                    51:46 Prostate cancer diagnosis and recovery
                                                    58:32 The importance of diet and exercise in recovery
                                                    1:06:09 Alcohol and its effects on brain recovery after a stroke
                                                    1:14:12 Hope for the future

                                                    Transcript:

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 0:00

                                                    The other deficit was my speech, and it was slurred. But worse than it is now. And according to my therapist who knows the ins and outs, and two people who I just saw today say, oh, it’s gotten quite a bit better, Kevin. So I’m happy that I’m on the track.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 0:27

                                                    But I don’t know how far I’ll come back. You know, it’s funny because I’m not getting it, I was looking towards retirement from my job. I had taken the first course in voice casting and broadcasting learning how to use your voice and make money.

                                                    Intro 0:58

                                                    This is the recovery after stroke podcast, with Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after a stroke.

                                                    Bill’s Book

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:11

                                                    Hello, and welcome to the Recovery after Stroke podcast. Today’s a very cool day. Apart from the fact that I have another fantastic guest for you. I would like to let all my viewers and listeners know that my book, The Unexpected Way That A Stroke Became The Best Thing That Happened is in the final stages before publication and almost ready to launch.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:32

                                                    And to celebrate the completion of this four-year project, I will be giving away the first chapter free to grab your copy, all you have to do is go to recoveryafterstroke.com/book, have a look around, and discover what the book is all about.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:50

                                                    And if your curiosity gets the better of you and you want a little sample of the book, then all you have to do is click the Download Free Chapter button. Very shortly after the free PDF of chapter one will be forwarded directly to your email inbox.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 2:06

                                                    Once the book is published and available for purchase, you’ll be among the first to know and I hope you will decide to purchase a copy either for yourself or someone else that may be benefiting from reading the book. Just go to recoveryafterstroke.com/book and get your free chapter after this episode.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 2:28

                                                    Now if you are a stroke survivor with a story to share about your stroke experience, come and join me on the show. The interviews are not scripted, you do not have to plan for them. All you need to do to qualify is be a stroke survivor who wants to share your story in the hope that it will help someone else who is going through something similar.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 2:49

                                                    If you are a researcher who wants to share the findings of a recent study or you are looking to recruit people into your studies, you may also want to reach out and be a guest on my show. If you have a commercial product that you would like to promote that is related to supporting stroke survivors to recover.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 3:08

                                                    There is also a path for you to join me on a sponsored episode of the show. Just go to recoveryafterstroke.com/contact, and fill out the form explaining briefly which category you belong to. And I will respond with more details on how you can connect with me via Zoom.

                                                    What happaned to Kevin R. Housman


                                                    Bill Gasiamis 3:30
                                                    This is episode 270. And my guest today is Kevin Housman who has had his fair share of health challenges, including stroke. Nonetheless, Kevin continues to find ways to move forward and joins me on the show in the hope of raising awareness and encouraging others to go after recovery. Kevin Housman, welcome to the podcast.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 3:54

                                                    Thank you. It’s good to be here and nice to meet you, Bill.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 3:58

                                                    My pleasure. Nice to have you here. Tell me a little bit about what happened to you, Kevin.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 4:03

                                                    Well, I guess it all started about eight or 10 years ago really when I developed essential tremor. I went to the doctors and they checked me out it wasn’t Parkinson’s so relieved there but the tremor was just something that happens in the brain and makes your hands on ARM shake a little bit in my case, and it got progressively worse.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 4:38

                                                    So about a year and a half ago, I decided to have an elective DBS surgery, deep brain stimulation to correct it. And that involves putting two electrodes in your head and then wiring it to a battery. A pack is implanted in my chest. It sends current into this portion of my brain and stops the tremors. And it works pretty well, not completely, but way, way better.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 5:16

                                                    And I’d say that part of the surgery was a success. The problem was that during the first procedure on October 24 of last year, they said they put an electrode in the wrong spot on my right side. So it would be the left hemisphere. And they missed the target, apparently, and I had a stroke, not a real severe one, fortunately, but enough to make my right side droop.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 6:03

                                                    And I couldn’t speak very well, my right hand and right leg were weak. And I had to take some PT right away to learn how to walk. That came back pretty fast. But the thing that hasn’t come back is my writing the fine motor skills. And I still have speech problems. But it’s gotten better in speech therapy.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 6:32

                                                    Okay, so how, is your speech different? How is your speech different? So we wouldn’t know what it was like? Do you? Can you describe it to somebody who has never met you before? And then tell them how your speech is different. What do you notice about it?

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 6:51

                                                    Yes, what I notice about it, and when talking to my wife and other people close to me. To help it be more clear, I’ve slowed down the pace of my speech, demonstrably, and hopefully eat with the right setting on my electronics, so you don’t have too much trouble understanding me.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 7:20

                                                    But I’m a salesman, I sell commercial office space. So I lease and talk to people all day long. And, you know, it kind of sounds like I’m about three martinis into a nice evening, when I talked to him, and some people have a broad but other beautiful, very active one of my you know, but that’s been a bit of a hassle.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 7:51

                                                    And well, not only that, writing stuff is hard, it’s a little bit difficult to still move around. I don’t find walking easy as my right side has a weakness that needs some more work.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 8:07

                                                    And you know, is also the current state of the office market isn’t helping anything with in terms of production, it’s the place not to be right now is in the office. But making a living, and I’m back at work now. Most recently, four days a week, and I’ll start full-time in two weeks.

                                                    Hand tremors and surgery options for Kevin R. Housman

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 8:39

                                                    Okay, so these tremors was it one day you didn’t have the tremors? And then one day you had them? Or was it a gradual increase of the tremor? Right. And then it got to the point where it was very difficult to deal with.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 8:59

                                                    Yeah, good question. To me, it seems to remember back like it was very much a gradual thing. I can’t remember down which I didn’t or did have it and just remember, like having a slight tremor early on.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 9:21

                                                    That would be like if you had a reaction to some medication for your asthma or something like that. It sometimes makes you tremble a little bit but it goes away. And I found that during stress, I try not to get stressed out but Sometimes life happens and during stress, the tremors get worse.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 9:49

                                                    Yeah, if you can work out don’t get stressed. Jane, if you know what that is and how to do it, let me know and we’ll Sell it will sell it for a squid the knowledge to everybody.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 10:05

                                                    Good, everybody gets stressed. So you notice that when you have, it would be a tough day at work or Yeah, lack of sleep or something that just interferes with your feeling of being rested or well or is stable, then you notice that the tremor gets worse. Is it as it is? Did it get to the point where it was impossible to hold a glass of water?

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 10:32

                                                    Well, no, but it got impossible to carry, well, it did get impossible to carry a full glass of water across the room without spilling it. And that’s when I kind of decided man, I gotta do something. It just progressed in my case.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 10:55

                                                    And people notice that we’re at work and I know who who knows what they would attribute it to either I’ve been drinking and just stopped or I had some other ailment. And I some people I told, but a lot of folks I run into aren’t, I’m not real close to them, I deal with him for a while during a deal.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 11:24

                                                    And then we don’t see each other. So I don’t feel like I have to explain it. But I was showing office space one day to this very nice lady who’s a broker and she represented a company that wanted space. So this is about two and a half years ago now.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 11:50

                                                    After the tour, I called her was just my habit and said how are we doing if there’s an interest. How does your client feel about what they saw? And she said, you know, everything was fine. We’re interested, we’re gonna send you a proposal but I wanted to ask you a personal question.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 12:13

                                                    And I said sure. And I didn’t expect this but she just came right out and said I noticed your tremor. And does it bother you? And I said yes, it bothers me. I have a central tremor. And you know, she said so does my sister and she’s having surgery to correct that.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 12:40

                                                    And she said I know a doctor who is like the best in his field over at Cedars Sinai which is the famous place that treats all stars. And so she put me in touch with him I got right in we can no waiting and I guess she has some influence and turns out he’s a very nice man.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 13:06

                                                    I saw him for a good year and a year and a half before deciding to pull the trigger on the surgery. Now he didn’t produce he doesn’t perform surgeries. He is certainly the electrical magnificent magnet, May. Magician, the ledger, the electrical magician, and so he works on electronics. But there’s a surgeon he works with who does perform the surgery regularly. And that’s why I had to do it.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 13:40

                                                    Did you call him a magician?

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 13:42

                                                    I sorted. I meant this. Yeah, he is sir. Like an electrical magician. The guy is very accomplished.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 13:55

                                                    Saying so he’s good at working out where electrical things happen in the head and he plays with it and I know I’m butchering it. I know I’m not talking about his skills properly. But he he plays with it. And then he resets things and he fixes things. A
                                                    yes, all right. Well, well.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman after the procedure

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 14:17

                                                    Okay. I understand. All right. So that seems like you’ve done all your due diligence, you’ve taken some time to consider the whole process. And you’ve spent quite a lot of time in the pre-procedure phase which is talking and understanding your condition etc. And then you decided to pull the trigger and get the procedure done. And then during the procedure, you experience the stroke now I’m going to ask a question, did the procedure resolve the tremor?

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 14:54

                                                    I would say 90% of it is resolved but I still have a little bit. So I can take one dose of a very small dose of medicines called propranolol, there’s a beta blocker that helps calm your tremor. And with that, I’m pretty good on the tremor. And I’m even better when you have the remote that I have that controls the device. It has two settings on it for me.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 15:32

                                                    One is what I’ve got now that allows me to talk better. And the other one ramps it up a little bit, I guess zapped me a little more, but they help me have fewer tremors even than I do now. And it makes my speech a little bit more impacted.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 16:00

                                                    Okay, so that thing is currently installed into your brain and you can adjust the settings and get a different kind of experience. Yeah, okay. Weird. That’s what’s magic stuff. That’s magician stuff for sure. Okay, so, so it was partly successful, but then you had this other complication? Yes, sir. All right. Now. I wonder if there’s a possibility.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 16:32

                                                    And I don’t I don’t know. So I’m just I’m I’m a novice. I’m just asking because I’m curious. Right. I wonder if there’s a possibility that is it possible that these tremors are made worse by the person trying to overcorrect them.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 16:51

                                                    I sue as you mean, I, I don’t know. That would be a question concerning how voluntary involuntary is yeah, that’s what I don’t know. I haven’t, like done any meditation or other type of therapy to help me stop tremors,

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 17:19

                                                    or calm or wonder if you’ve been listened to? Any of the recent podcast episodes specifically episode 263. With Yugi oka

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 17:30

                                                    263. Yeah. Okay,

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 17:33

                                                    have a listen to that episode because it’s about a gentleman who helps people connect their body to the brain again, the way that he describes it. While he doesn’t describe it like that? I do. He is. He describes it far more eloquently than that.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 17:52

                                                    And in that interview, one of the specific subjects that we spoke about, and a video that he sent me, was about a young kid who got hit by a car. After the lengthy recovery process developed a tremor. Really, yeah. And they worked together so that they could decrease the tremor.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 18:17

                                                    Wow. Yeah, it is. And there was no medical intervention, but there was a, a oh my gosh, I never know how to describe it. It was kind of like, an awareness intervention where UG supported this young child, this teenager to reconnect with his brain and to stop overcorrecting.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 18:45

                                                    So what he was doing this kid was he was holding his hand to keep it still, but that holding it and keeping it still meant that he was somehow interfering in the process and making it worse. So the more he focused on it, the worse he made it. And then the worse he made it, the worse the loop got.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 19:03

                                                    And it just got out of hand where it was unable to be. He was unable to hold a cup or a glass or anything. But then with time, they kind of reversed that process somehow. And they got him to have meaningful use of his arms so that he could hold a glass of water and drink it. spilling it. Yeah.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 19:27

                                                    So that’s incredible. He’s an amazing guy, this YuGiOh guy. I mean, this guy is like, he’s like a Japanese magician. Like he, you know, he’s just got the army and he’s a cool dude. And he’s just so smart. And he talks about amazing things.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 19:43

                                                    Now, I interviewed him a couple of weeks ago, and you might benefit from at least understanding the concept behind it. And okay, Yugi is also somebody who I recommend you could reach out to and he would be happy to have a chat with you.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 20:00

                                                    Oh, thank you. He sounds like the kind of guy she was talking to before I had the surgery.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 20:06

                                                    Look, that man. I don’t know how that would have come about, you know because if you didn’t have a stroke, you never would have met me. And I never would have suggested him. So I don’t know how it would have happened. I know, I had to have a stroke, too. I had to have moisture 10 years ago so that we could get to this stage.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 20:24

                                                    Wow. Yeah. He had a stroke 10 years ago.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 20:28

                                                    Yeah. So in February 2012, I had a brain hemorrhage. And then I had two more after that and brain surgery. And I had to learn how to use my left side again, and how to walk, learn how to walk again. And I still live with the deficits today, you can’t see them.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 20:45

                                                    But my deficits are. Also, there’s a little bit of motor neuron motor. There, there’s a little bit of motor issues. So a little more hand, my left hand and my left leg kind of don’t know where they are in the world. It’s great proprioception issues.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 21:06

                                                    And then, and then the skin burns hot. It’s called it it’s uncomfortable for people to touch it. My balance is a little bit out. So I have several different symptoms. I see. And that’s, that’s what motivated me to get into this space and start speaking to other people about fear stroke conditions.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 21:33

                                                    And what’s interesting is, I’ve never spoken to somebody who has had a procedure like yours that caused the stroke, there’s 1000 ways to have a stroke, believe me, I mean, yeah. Stunning. How many ways there are two have a stroke? So I’m curious about that side.

                                                    Lower basal ganglia stroke recovery and treatment options

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 21:52

                                                    I know, there’s some stuff going on that we can’t talk about anything. So if I ask a question that you can’t answer right now, just let me know. But what was it like when you experienced the trimmer treatment? Are you awake for that? Yes.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 22:11

                                                    For part of the procedure, I was awake. After they place the probes and I think it must have been, they will let me wake up in surgery. And it’s remarkable get they’ve had guys, you know, play the guitar and stuff like that. But they didn’t do that. But everyone listened to me. But

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 22:36

                                                    because you’re terrible at the guitar. Yeah.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 22:41

                                                    But they, they, I remember them speaking to me, and they said, you know, can you talk Kevin, I talked about I guess it was coming out when he and my right side was drooping. And that and they probably know something was wrong then but you know, they put me back together. And then about five days, eight days later, they did a restorative surgery to redo the replacement. And it worked.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 23:17

                                                    Okay, so you’re woken up from surgery. And you’ve noticed that the tremor is better. But now you’ve had a stroke. So what’s going on in your head?

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 23:29

                                                    What are you writing? Well, I didn’t know for about another month that I had had a stroke. I was unaware that the scan said that and they didn’t tell me that I had a stroke.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 23:48

                                                    So I was just told, Look, we put the probe in the wrong place and it was somewhere that it affects your speech and it was like it got bruised in their vessel bruises should come back is what they told me. And so I started out thinking okay, this is an unfortunate deal, but I’m going to come back from it, and then excuse me Bill, the word stroke never got used with me until I was sitting in Dr. Tang Lyon.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 24:34

                                                    His office sees the electrical magician. And he said, you know, by the way, your your MRI shows that you did have a stroke and I want you to know that. And I said okay, banks, I get that. And I was disappointed and proud.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 24:59

                                                    Probably a little angry at first. But that’s all I remember a feeling, my wife and my brother are very close obviously, they both got mattered that I did and they were fidgeting around and I said, Look, I just got to feel better, you know. And I did get better. And I got to the hospital and three days or so.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 25:34

                                                    Yeah. Okay. And then when you went home, what were the deficits that you had to the stroke-related deficits that you had to deal with?

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 25:45

                                                    My right side was so weak in the legs and the arms. But I was able to walk and negotiate stairs in my home, which I have bedrooms upstairs in living spaces downstairs. So with a little help from my wife, I was able to do all the getting around.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 26:09

                                                    And I started, I guess I didn’t start right away in therapy because I just wanted to heal up. But the other deficit was, my speech. And it was slurred. But worse than it is now. And according to my, therapists, who know the ins and outs, and two people who I just talked to, they say, oh, it’s gotten quite a bit better, Kevin. So I’m happy that I’m on the track.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 26:47

                                                    But I don’t know how far I’ll come back, you know, it’s funny because I’m not getting, I was looking towards retirement from my job. I took the first course, which was offered over Zoom in voice casting and broadcasting and learning how to use your voice and make money.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 27:22

                                                    Because I thought that it’d be a fun way to spend some of my retirement, that is probably gonna be tough to do. And let’s say one guy, sounds like Foster Brooks and kind of kind of plays a drunk guy all the time. But, you know, you never know.

                                                    Intro 27:46

                                                    If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. Like, how long will it take to recover? Will I recover? What things should I avoid?

                                                    Intro 28:01

                                                    In case I make matters worse, and doctors will explain things that, you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask. If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery.

                                                    Intro 28:16

                                                    If you’re finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you it’s called Seven Questions to Ask Your Doctor about your Stroke.

                                                    Intro 28:30

                                                    These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition, they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery. Head to the website. Now, recoverafterstroke.com and download the guide. It’s free.

                                                    Bipolar disorder and Lower basal ganglia stroke recovery


                                                    Bill Gasiamis 28:49
                                                    You save a little bit of work, you’re taking it well. And you said that your loved ones your brother in your wife took it a little worse than you are you taking a well or is just this your personality?

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 29:04

                                                    Is there some underlying you know, anger or frustration? I imagine there is some of it, but how would you describe how you’re taking this?

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 29:16

                                                    There’s a little bit of anger with the fact that a mistake I think was made of some guide that cause but you know, I still don’t feel bitter towards my doctors. I know that they’re good doctors and look, stuff just happens and I think I think it’s partly my personality and my faith because you know, I’m a believer in God and I believe that he’s got me and is he Enzi knows what’s gonna happen.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 30:02

                                                    And somehow, he’s gotten us through the last nine months, you know, financially and everything has been okay. But I don’t have good disability insurance. Because there have been some other things going on in my life that made me expensive to insure like I’m bipolar.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 30:31

                                                    And that for me, usually means I don’t get too manic I get, I do get hypo manic sometimes, but that’s rare. And the issue I have with that is depression. So like, if I had to stress out, I’d get depressed. And I’ve been on medication. For a long time, I have had two good doctors helping me.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 31:01

                                                    And I’ve been, I have been a hospital for depression twice in my lifetime. The last time was over 13 years ago. But you know, I have that history. It’s in the record. And when insurance companies see that they don’t want to underwrite me, anything I can afford.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 31:29

                                                    Understand, when the SU when you have a Bipolar episode, is the depression shortly after a real manic episode? Or does the depression come first and then the manic episode? Or is there no real pattern

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 31:49

                                                    usually happens with me, the way I recall them all is usually happens, the depressive episode occurs first. And then when I come out of it, I tend to get a little manic. Like, you know, it’s not severe, like, Hey, don’t run off to Vegas and put it all on one number and spin the wheel. But I do.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 32:17

                                                    You know, I tend to be compulsive about buying things, and I have to watch it. Because, you know, it’s like, I have so much energy and it feels so good, not to hurt anymore. And not to be pressed, I just, you know, I want to live and I want to do things I wish I ended up, you know, buying this and that.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 32:43

                                                    And sometimes we don’t need it, you know, and I bought my wife a new coffee maker for a house we recently purchased. You guys, it was from Japan. And she said you’re taking it back right now. And I had to go and I went to eBay. and by gosh, they were really good about it. And they gave me my money back. So you know, lesson learned.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 33:21

                                                    Okay, so How long have you had the bipolar? Is it something that’s about

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 33:30

                                                    age 30? I was diagnosed first. And I’m 64. Now.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 33:36

                                                    So you were diagnosed on the 30. But did you experience the symptoms before?

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 33:41

                                                    Yeah. A bit. Maybe a little bit in college, but not big time until my late 20s. And, you know,

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 33:56

                                                    you’ve dealt with some pretty serious, long-term medical conditions related to the brain, right? And,

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 34:07

                                                    yes,

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 34:08

                                                    does that somehow prepare you for this? possess, somehow make it like? Well, I got through that. I’m going to get through this. How do you deal with all of that?

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 34:19

                                                    I think it does. I’m, I’m remarkable. It’s remarkable to me. I have a friend who had a stroke about five years ago, it was because of AFib. And he got a blood clot there. And he’s a nice guy. I told him about what happened and he sent me some paperwork that he got when he was being educated about the stroke and talked to me a how plastic the brain is.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 34:52

                                                    And I believe that because it’s happened to him. His recovery has been pretty remarkable. And he’s said, Kevin, don’t believe and when they, they tell you, after six months, your progress is about where it’s gonna be. And I’d be any better after that. That’s where I was held.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 35:13

                                                    And I was depressed about it because when the six-month mark came, I still had these deficits. But there, they were better. I admit that, but they were still deficits. And, that hurt me in doing repression there. And it is unfortunate, but yeah, my doctors got me through it.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 35:38

                                                    And I switched the medication a little bit that they gave me and it worked. So I made it through that. And that works. I think it does help me with the stroke. Bill. I think it’s a good observation.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 35:56

                                                    Yeah. Do you know, if is there a connection between bipolar disorder and the medication that they give you and the tremors?

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 36:07

                                                    Well, there was a will there is, the mood stabilizer Amaan could cause tremors, and one of the drugs they use to kind of come alongside the antidepressants is an anti-psychotic, and they can make you that was called Abilify, it, it can make you tremor.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 36:37

                                                    And we experimented by going off movement stuff. But I could only tolerate being down at a certain dose, I had to have some of it, or I was kind of slipped and gotten more depressed. And it’s been a long path through me on depression.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 36:57

                                                    And accepting that because I didn’t want to at first I was a type A person. And this was thrown at me and I thought, hey, I’m not gonna let this happen. But I had to admit, and then I can accept the help. And the help is out there. So that was good news.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 37:19

                                                    And I think the brain is remarkable how plastic it is. You said the story about that young man who helped himself by rethinking new pathways, you know, stuff I don’t understand going into the brain. And it’s pretty cool.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 37:40

                                                    It’s very cool. So with the so it’s quite a long journey for you to get to stroke, you know, bipolar medication, that tremors led to the procedure led to the stroke. So you can kind of see the process that got there.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 38:04

                                                    When you’re in a depressive state, as somebody who has bipolar, do you know that you’re there? And do you know that it’s going to pass? And that you can sit this through even though it’s uncomfortable? Or do you not have that awareness?

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 38:20

                                                    How would you describe that moment of depression, I think people feel feel like the depression after a stroke because about 30% of people after a stroke will experience depression. And it’s related to the stroke, it’s also related to their changing identity.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 38:39

                                                    It’s also related to, you know, the deficits that they have to overcome and the disability they’re experiencing. So what’s it like when you’re in a depressive state? Do you have an awareness of the fact that you’re there? And soon you won’t be how do you how does it play out?

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 38:58

                                                    Well, I wish it was in fact. Like that, I have an awareness when I’m in it. I know. When I’m feeling down and it’s not just the blues for a day or two or three, I’m that I tend to find it hard to concentrate. It’s you know, I don’t like things I usually like, I tend to withdraw.

                                                    Depression and mental health of Kevin R. Housman

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 39:33

                                                    I don’t engage as much with people. And then I realize I’m in an episode and so I do know that part of the equation. The other part you said this so important, is will it go away? And you know that it always has, but I mean, it has every time it’s gone away, it’s sickle cool.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 39:59

                                                    But when you’re in it, you feel like, this is a sickness, I’m not gonna get over, like, when you’re seasick, you know, you don’t feel like you’re gonna ever feel good again, you don’t want to just die are so sick. And that’s where we need help.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 40:23

                                                    Because we need someone to come alongside to assure us that it is gonna get better are you right, depression doesn’t last all that long? But if you know if it lasts any time at all, it’s bad. I mean, yeah, I have a lot of respect for depression, because I hate it so much. And, you know, so and so easy press, their new press, you know, it doesn’t matter why or how, and add type of thing. They need hope.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 41:07

                                                    Yeah, this thing, when, I don’t know, if I’ve been depressed, I don’t get it. But I have had a really difficult time through this last winter. I don’t feel like myself, feel disconnected from myself, etc. It’s just coming into spring now in Australia. And I recognize that I had been in this state beforehand.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 41:35

                                                    In winter, last year, everything kind of seemed to drop off the mood, you know, the energy levels, the fatigue increases, the lack of clarity, the inability to focus and concentrate. But this time, I think it was a little more severe. And my wife noticed that more, and she made a point of it more. But when I was in that state, I couldn’t comprehend exactly the state that I was in and how I had to deal with it.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 42:08

                                                    And it Yeah. And all I had, all I had to do was seek out help from other people because I couldn’t do it myself. I joined the gym because exercise is good for my mood, yes, I went to the car, I went to the chiropractor, I went and got massages, I watched what I ate, you know, I did as many things that I went out as often as I could into the sun, etc.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 42:32

                                                    I did as much as I could. Yeah, to kind of do things that support the release of feel-good hormones, and, and dopamine and all that stuff. So it was like there was a disconnect from my ability to comprehend the state that I was in.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 42:57

                                                    And it kind of reminded me of when I had a stroke, and people said to me, why did you go to the hospital? And why did you take seven days to get there? It was because I was having a stroke. And even though I appeared Okay, on the outside, I was quite capable of doing a lot of other things.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 43:17

                                                    I wasn’t capable of connecting the dots with the deficits in my left side that I should have medical intervention. I just Yeah, I talked to down. And I just wasn’t capable of going this is seriously nuts. Nothing inside me said to do, you can’t feel your whole left side go to the hospital.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 43:42

                                                    And yeah, it was all doing the opposite. So I’m trying to relate the story of the disconnect that you get when you’re in a situation, you don’t necessarily have the mental capacity to connect the dots in your condition and what you’re meant to do. That’s true.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 44:05

                                                    Therefore, perhaps when people are in their bipolar, depressive state they don’t have the capacity cognitively because the brain function is altered to go. I am aware that even though this situation is happening to me it is temporary, even though you know that you’ve been through that for 30 years, you still lose that ability.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 44:32

                                                    It’s kind of like part of the impact that it has is it takes away a certain function of cognitive connections between what you need to do and what you should. What your what you going through and what do you need to do to get it sorted?

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 44:48

                                                    Yes. Well, that’s very true. And I well I give you credit for when you were feeling this way, I at least did all the things right that you could think to do. That’s a positive. My father used to teach me because I was an athlete in school, but I wasn’t a great athlete, I had to work hard.

                                                    Managing depression and returning to work after a stroke

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 45:17

                                                    And because smallish and everything, and he always said, You’re gonna have to do all the little things, right? If you want to be good. And so I hear about someone taking the steps, you gotta feel good about it, but then there’s you still left with the feeling that it’s not going to go away, or you were having the feeling, I don’t need to go to the doctor.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 45:45

                                                    It is a cognitive thing, that happens in depression, too, you can lose some ability to think clearly. And that’s why, for one reason, it’s, it’s another of many reasons why it’s so important to have some support around you.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 46:10

                                                    Because, like you said, your wife mentioned to you, so she helps you be aware of something was kind of off. And I have two people in my life like that my wife and my kid, brother, we’re very close. And I call him and just tell him, I’m not, I’m not doing good.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 46:33

                                                    I’m, I’m feeling down and then you know, I probably should call the doctor. And then he’d say, your, you need to call the doctor that’d be like, me says, something’s wrong with my left side, I gotta go to the doctor. And I least had a glimmer to know that that wouldn’t work me for.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 47:01

                                                    And so I went to him and the encouragement of people and, you know, then he changed the medication. It was unfortunately with depression, even when you get the right medications, for example, it takes weeks sometimes for it to clear up.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 47:28

                                                    But, you don’t know it’s trial and error. But it can help you get back on your feet. I don’t preach medication, but you know, works for some people, for others.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 47:47

                                                    Do you go to work in those states when you have a manic episode or a depressive episode? Are you capable of being fully active and working correctly and well,

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 48:03

                                                    I have a history of episodes during the last three years where I did say at work, and I thought for a long time, that I must be the most sensitive real estate broker in California because I have a crying spell on the way into the office, have them pull over to an off-ramp, and just let it pass and then go to work and, and it was really hard and sometimes it was too much once like about 25 years ago.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 48:47

                                                    I did go to the hospital because I wasn’t on the right medication didn’t have the right things going on and a doctor helped me then. And then again after I had surgery on my prostate or was removed, who has cancer I did get depressed after that.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 49:15

                                                    And I don’t know if it was this, the surgery or my reaction to it or something else I had, you know, things are stressful or so there’s a big stress going on. And I got I had to take some time off and Mueller most recently. You know I went back to work in January after the stroke.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 49:45

                                                    And that was probably a little too soon. And I I I did it. I made it. I worked till June. And then finally a call I have with me I was the I got the press and I said, Hey, I hear I gotta take some time off and the doctor cooperated and wrote me a note. I took off a month, you know, recently, because I needed the time off. Yeah. Okay.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 50:20

                                                    Well, I liked that. She’s not the first person who said, I went back to work too early after the stroke, not most people. Most people want to get back because it helps to create an environment, okay, things are getting back to normal.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 50:41

                                                    Yeah, they get to be themselves again, hanging out with people again, and it’s useful, there’s a benefit to going back to work. Not only financially but emotionally and mentally, etc. But many people go back to work and then regret it, and then realize how hard it is.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 51:01

                                                    But I did the same thing. But the thing about it is it does. It’s kind of like a muscle going back to work, you have to push through the pain barrier to see where you’re really at. And then you can reassess. And then you can go, Okay, hang on a sec, no, I think we need to take a couple of steps back.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 51:20

                                                    So it’s great that you did that. Because now you know what needs to happen so that you can ease back into that work environment and the pressure of it. And the emails and the phone calls and the driving and all the stuff that goes with it. So that’s a lot for a brain to handle that healing.

                                                    Prostate cancer diagnosis and recovery

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 51:42

                                                    After a stroke. Definitely. A lot. Now you also threw in there because I thought you were already amazing. You’ve already had bipolar and essential tremors and then stroke but you also threw the threw in there a prostate cancer just for a good measure.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 52:01

                                                    Yeah, well, you know, as 50 years old, I went to the doctor and he he felt something in there when he was giving me the exam and I said to this guy, what is it in he said it see they’re going infection or is a tumor? And I go okay, give me some good news.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 52:22

                                                    And I went and had a biopsy and it was cancer, in fact, and it had to be removed because it had grown to the point already, where it had broken the capsule of the prostate so they figured and I got a real good doctor, that when did the surgery robotically and took it out.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 52:55

                                                    And because I was very young for a guy to have prostate cancer, they feared my survival would be best served by the removal. And so far, it’s been okay I am still being treated for it with hormone therapy. But you know, my PSA is down pretty low.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 53:23

                                                    You know, you think with a prostate being taken out, you shouldn’t have a PSA count. That would be ideal. But I have some amount of cancer cells floating around in my body somewhere. Fortunately, there are no tumors yet, I guess scan and everything. So that’s a stressor too I suppose. But I’m, I’ve kind of rolled with that one.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 53:54

                                                    The PSA stands for prostate-specific antigen, whatever the hell that means. But yeah, it’s the word that they throw around. So can we talk about a little bit what prompted you to go and have that examination?

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 54:11

                                                    Well, that was just a regular checkup. It was

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 54:16

                                                    attention men go and get regular checkups.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 54:20

                                                    Yeah. And no, I think back to it. If it wasn’t a regular checkup, the reason I went in a week was because the flow of my urine was very reduced. And it was a slow stream and I thought I’m 50 years old, not 70 I should still be able to put out fires. So it wasn’t something was wrong.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 54:52

                                                    And that’s what it was it was putting pressure on it and was restricting the flow That was something you have to listen to.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 55:03

                                                    So what are you writing the book?

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 55:11

                                                    Yeah, I wish. As soon as I find out the happy ending, I guess I’ll write the book. It’s good to happen, though.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 55:21

                                                    I think just write the book, write the book. And on the last page, do the da da da to know, so that you knew. Yeah, so that we can let it get to that stage? You know?

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 55:34

                                                    Yeah. Oh, thanks, Bill. Good idea.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 55:39

                                                    Man. It’s extraordinary to hear your story. Because a lot of people go through life unscathed most of the time, and then they have a stroke. And then they don’t have what sounds like, like a real good toolbox of dealing with shit things that happen in life.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 56:00

                                                    Yes. And then it’s overwhelming. It’s how do I deal with this stroke? Because it’s messed up everything? Yeah, I’ve never had the experience before. And I don’t know how to respond. And I felt a little bit like that after the third blade that I had in my head and the brain surgery, because it was like, Well, I’ve been through this twice already. None of it. None of it pleasant. It’s taken three years.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 56:26

                                                    Yeah. But I’ve got some kind of it feels like it doesn’t feel unfamiliar. You know, all right. Yeah. Yeah, I opened my head. And, you know, feeling around in there and taking stuff out. That’s, that’s unfamiliar. But when I woke up, and I couldn’t walk, and I couldn’t use my left side, I just thought, Well, alright, I’ve got work to do, I’ve got to get stuff done.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 56:54

                                                    And I never focused on anything other than what I needed to solve the problems that I needed to solve. Now, of course, I wasn’t perfect. I wasn’t the most amazing person recovering from a stroke ever had bad days, and I was down, and I was moody.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 57:12

                                                    And I had all those issues, of course, but mostly the task on hand was, alright, let’s get on my feet, task one, task two, let’s get back home to task three, you know, let’s drive again. And then task four, let’s get to work, and so on. And it took quite a long time to get through all those steps.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 57:38

                                                    And we never had a timeline on it. But I just got to work on solving problems. And it sounds like you’re, really, really good at that.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 57:49

                                                    I’m involved in pretty heavy now. And I need to do some more. I mean, I’m also losing weight. And I’m finally able to do that, and I got a decent diet and healthy food. And I need to go back to working out, I stopped lifting weights, right before the surgery.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 58:14

                                                    And I want to go back to the gym, at least I had a personal trainer twice a week. And it was really good for me. It helped my mobility, it made me feel good. So all those things are so important to you mentioned.

                                                    The importance of diet and exercise in recovery

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 58:35

                                                    And the key, the behind what you’re talking about is managing somehow not to react like a victim. And look at it as a problem to solve that’s healthy. But I mean, it’s hard to do sometimes. And we need forgiveness along the way, and people love us. But you know, that’s, that’s the most important thing.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 59:11

                                                    I love the fact that you went back to the gym, so did I and it’s helped so, so much, and I avoided the gym because I’m afraid of lifting, for example, in a bench press with my head because my left-hand fatigues quicker than my right hand. It does. Yeah. And you get this imbalance.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 59:29

                                                    And I’m always imagining the bar falling on my neck and choking. Something, you know, yeah. Now there are people around that that wouldn’t happen, but it risks injuries. So I just told my guys who developed my weight training program. All my exercises are going to be on machines that are supported.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 59:49

                                                    And good. It’s good

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 59:52

                                                    and there are no free weights. I do free weights not Yeah, the only ones I do are for bicep curls, and all the rest To all our machines, even the tricep ones, absolutely everything is on a machine so that that I can get real good structure and resistance without being concerned that, for example, my left hand if I’m doing a tricep exercise above my head and back, yeah, they are above my head.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:22

                                                    But I could lose grip on that. And it could fall off if it’s a very heavy weight. And sometimes my head just lets go and it doesn’t realize that it’s not holding tight enough. So it’s like, okay, I’ll get back, I’ll do that. And that’s helping.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:42

                                                    What I also loved that you said is that you’re, you’re considering your diet. So there’s such a thing as a bipolar diet. And I’ve heard a lot of people get good results from doing diet interventions to sort of help smooth out, the range of the manic and the depressive episodes, and that they’ve noticed that some foods trigger the depressive episode much more, and some, the manic episode.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:19

                                                    And I’ve been I’ve heard, I’ve read many years ago, that one of the things that depletes lithium in the body, for some people, is sugar, that for some people, sugar is kind of like something that they’re allergic to.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:35

                                                    And one of the reactions it does is to suck out lithium stores from the body, or also to stop lithium from being absorbed.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:45

                                                    And if you’re able to take out, you know, high fructose corn syrup out of those sodas, for example, and wherever else it’s added, which is in tons of places, and if you minimize your consumption of white sugar and brown sugar, and all that type of stuff, and you get your sugar only from say, a whole plant a whole food like a plant.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:02:09

                                                    It helps to support the lithium stores in the body. That’s good. Yeah. So there’s a lot of hope. Important. Yeah, there’s a lot of hope in that space of specifically, working out whether your diet is sort of aligned with a diet like a bipolar diet, for example.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 1:02:35

                                                    Yeah. I’ll look at it. I look into that because that sounds very positive.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:02:42

                                                    There, there’s an Australian psychiatrist who wrote a book about it. And I’ve been trying to find her name. I have the book inside of the house. I’ve been trying to find her name. And I couldn’t find it. I’ll get it for you.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:02:58

                                                    She wrote a book about a diet that supports evidence of a diet that supports bipolar disorder. And it wouldn’t be the only one. There are a lot of scientific studies that show people getting good results from changing their diet.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 1:03:17

                                                    Yeah, that was great to hear. And you had the I think the thing about the bipolar thing, it is a lifetime deal. So I’m, I’ve accepted that I probably needed to take this cocktail of medications in some shape or form my whole life, but changing the way I eat can be very important and supportive, reducing the sugar might be really good.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:56

                                                    Yeah, you’re gonna find a big benefit from reducing sugar just for the stroke recovery, because sugar is inflammatory. So when the brain has a stroke, it is inflamed in that spot. And what we want to do is decrease the inflammation. And sugar is one of those things which is highly inflammatory.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:15

                                                    And it makes fatigue and deficits worse. I noticed that if I have sugar, my left side goes wobbly, and it doesn’t feel great. And I can feel the sugar coursing through, my body now because I didn’t have much of it at all. Really? Yeah.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:34

                                                    And I noticed that the fatigue gets worse. So I get more fatigued after I have a cake, for example, at a birthday party. And that food coma is quicker onset and more dramatic.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 1:04:51

                                                    Yeah. Wow. That’s great.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:54

                                                    Yeah. So everything that you do with regards to dying is going to benefit not only A little bit of the bipolar, but it’s also going to benefit the stroke recovery. And, of course, you do the diet thing to support the other things that you’re doing.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:14

                                                    So the diet is not in replacement of, yes, your medical treatment, it is in support of your medical treatment so that what you’re not doing is doing a good thing on one hand, and then making it worse, on the other hand, by drinking too much beer or, you know, smoking, or, you know, eating at fast food restaurant every day.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:42

                                                    Yeah, so that’s kind of the role that I took, I decided that I wasn’t if I couldn’t get myself off the medication and all that stuff. Because the doctor suggested that I would have to stay on something for the rest of my life. I at least didn’t want to be contributing to making it worse.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:59

                                                    I made that my responsibility and I started to learn about specific diets that are good for neurological wellness.

                                                    Alcohol and its effects on brain recovery after Lower Basal Ganglia Stroke

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 1:06:09

                                                    That’s great. , I can’t wait to read that book. By an Australian doctor, and I’m sure that’ll help I’m in. The other thing that’s going on with me is, most recently, I’ve decided to stop drinking all alcohol. Because I know that it’s bad for what’s happening to me neurologically and is bad for my mood.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 1:06:46

                                                    And, you know, I was born and raised, playing football and then sewists rugby in folk in college, and Roidmude without drinking beer was unheard of, you know, except for the Tongan team, it was all Mormon ever the oh guys I’ve ever met, that didn’t drink beer at the reception.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 1:07:16

                                                    So I have kind of made it a part of my life to celebrate things and do stuff. But it can it it’s borderline, and sometimes it can get out of hand. And I know it’s not good for I just the sugar alone is remarkably bad.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:07:44

                                                    Yeah. Tell me about when you stopped drinking.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 1:07:51

                                                    Well, I came about three days ago.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:07:54

                                                    Congratulations. Okay. I’d love to hear about it when you’re 30 days. Because you’re going to notice a massive difference, it’s going to improve so many things. Great. Yeah.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 1:08:08

                                                    Well, I just got to do it. And, you know, bite the bullet. And at first, I see it as a loss. And it’s only a loss. If you think you can’t celebrate and, and stuff like that with my buddies. They don’t care.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 1:08:28

                                                    And they know our buddies getting older. And, and same with my family. They’ve already demonstrated they’re very supportive of me doing that. So

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:08:41

                                                    somebody should have told you that after a stroke, you’re not meant to drink for at least 12 months, at least. Really? Yeah. Well, absolutely.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 1:08:51

                                                    Yeah, that would have been good advice. Because it can’t be helping me. And it’s, it’s not giving my body the chance.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:09:05

                                                    It’s not helping your brain heal. It’s making your brain prolong its recovery. Yeah, you take that out, and everything starts to improve again because everyone who has been in your situation with drinking and after sport and all that kind of stuff.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:09:25

                                                    And even when you just went out with your friends on the weekend or with family, whatever, if you over drank the next day, you could say yeah, I think I killed some brain cells. I mean, it used to say their tongue in cheek, but it’s legitimate.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:09:41

                                                    It doesn’t. It does nothing positive, other than taste good. Quench your thirst perhaps, and make you feel a little disinhibited. Okay, but in the long term, especially as the brain ages The whole is making aging increase more rapidly, and alcohol is decreasing your rate of recovery.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:10:05

                                                    And alcohol is making bipolar swings worse. Alcohol is making fatigue of the brain worse, and your speech worse. It’s making everything worse. It’s not doing anything to create a better environment. It’s always reducing the quality of the environment so you can avoid it.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:10:28

                                                    And stay off it. I’d love to hear back in 30 days if you tell me what you’ve noticed. And okay, that’d be awesome. There’s your homework. Yeah,

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 1:10:37

                                                    I’ll take you up on that.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:10:40

                                                    There’s your homework, you stop drinking for 30 days. Tell me how you feel. And I’ll brag about it with everybody.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 1:10:47

                                                    All right, that’s fair enough.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:10:50

                                                    What a journey. I mean, that’s a pretty stunning journey that you’ve been through, I appreciate your your attitude of kind of, regardless of what you’ve been through, just keep moving forward and never give up. Is that? Is it something that you had to practice?

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:11:08

                                                    Or is it something that you had to did you learn that? Is it your family? Where did you kind of learn to keep going? Because most people who have been through something like you been through would say, I don’t know how you do it. I don’t know how you manage that. Kevin, I wouldn’t be able to do it. If it was me. How do you do it? Yeah.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 1:11:30

                                                    Well, I, I think that has a lot to do with my family, how was raised, and and then as an adult, it has a lot to do with just my faith, that I feel some level of protection there. That is real to me.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 1:11:56

                                                    And, as I think about my family. You know, my mom is German, and but she, she’s American, but she’s of German descent. And she could be kind of standoffish at times. But she’s the strongest person I know. She’s still going strong.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 1:12:20

                                                    She’s 87. And she’s like the Energizer Bunny, you know, and she just says, Be strong, keep going. And, and my dad was very similar, he passed away. But you know, he helped us in athletics. At school, they try to try and do their best. And it seems natural, that

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:12:53

                                                    says like, I set a good example. And that’s one of the things I love telling stroke survivors is, you know, it’s difficult, and it’s hard. I don’t even know the words to describe it for some people, then even begin to describe what stroke recovery is like.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:13:09

                                                    Yeah, and I can appreciate that, right? But I would say that if you can be one thing, as a stroke survivor, you can be a good example to show others how you go about recovery. That’s a good point, you know, and I’ve got younger kids, who were in their teens when I first had my first stroke.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:13:29

                                                    And it was like, Well, what am I going to do? I’m going to show them how when something goes wrong, how you curl up in a ball, and just go and sit in the corner and wait for death, or we’re going to show them a good example of how you tackle this and how you take Wi-Fi and how you fight for your recovery and the rest of it.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:13:52

                                                    And I took that route. And that made me feel like the like the suffering? Well, I don’t know if it was worth it, but the suffering was okay to experience because I was going to transform it in some way and turn it into a lesson.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 1:14:10

                                                    Yes, yes.

                                                    Hope for the future after Lower Basal Ganglia Stroke

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:14:15

                                                    I didn’t tell my kids that this is the lesson that you guys have to learn from this. I just Yeah. behaved in a way where they lived it. Yeah, I behaved in a way where they could later on in life when maybe in many, many years when I’m not around and they’re going through a tough time.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:14:32

                                                    They might go I’ve seen I have an example of how to overcome. Yes, something serious. I remember that from back in the day.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 1:14:45

                                                    Really? And maybe that’s a very good lesson to teach your children and it’s the most authentic way to teach them. So, you know, kudos, and I Your children are fortunate to have a father who looks at it that way.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:15:07

                                                    And I think the people around you are also fortunate because you’re a good example of somebody who just takes life. Life’s what life throws at you, and then you just deal with it and move forward. And that’s awesome. I love it.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:15:24

                                                    It’s the whole purpose of this episode of these episodes is to give people the sense that the struggle is well worth it, maybe I don’t know if it’s worth Yeah, I don’t know what the word is. But I’ll just say worth it.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 1:15:40

                                                    I think that’s a good way to put it. Because there are days when you feel like I just, it’s isn’t going that well, and I should be here and not where I am. And you can do that yourself. It is, you just have to keep it positive. And you know, I have an I feel like he’s a mentor.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 1:16:06

                                                    There’s an author named Henry now who writes he was a priest. And he writes little books about life and challenges. And he calls himself a wounded healer.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 1:16:27

                                                    And he says, you know, we heal people, we can help heal them by revealing our wounded woundedness to them. And, you know, carrying on. And that’s so it’s a good example for me and everybody.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:16:47

                                                    Yeah. Yeah, that’s awesome. So, what I’ve started doing at the end of the episode is asking this question, now, I could ask this about any of the conditions that you’ve experienced. But I’m going to ask it specifically about stroke. What was the hardest part about stroke for you so far?

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 1:17:09

                                                    I think the hardest part, for me, was the potential changes to my identity, you said that before. And I was very uncertain about how bad it was going to be, how long was it going to take, and just how many deficits I had deficits I had when I came out.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 1:17:40

                                                    So that was probably the hardest thing was like, looking over a cliff in the great Corvettes there and going what, how am I gonna get to the other side of this, and it was scary.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 1:17:57

                                                    But you know, it calmed down after a while. And the thing, it starts to, you see areas where you can make a little progress, like in speech therapy, you can make progress and in physical therapy and exercise, so there is hope. And that feels good.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:18:26

                                                    Yeah, most of what was struck taught you if anything

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 1:18:38

                                                    I think having a stroke taught me one thing for sure. And that is I have a lot of empathy for other stroke victims. Because I, I went through it and I don’t know if it’s something that you can describe to somebody until you go through it.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 1:19:06

                                                    It’s like you feel like a part of you got robbed, and you can get upset about it and everything but there are so many worse deficits than I have. I mean, I’ve you know, we’ve all seen people who are almost catatonic as a result of the stroke and everything from there to, you know, even better to the I Am and they’re just doing fine and it’s remarkable.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:19:46

                                                    Yeah. What do you want to tell others who are listening who have had a stroke who are probably early on in their journey? What do you want to tell them?

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 1:19:57

                                                    I want to tell you Please don’t give up hope that will pass eventually. And I’m still on the journey. But I’ve seen progress. And I’ve now run into some very good people like, like Bill and for example that I never would have met before. And it’s taken me some places to see things that I wouldn’t have seen.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 1:20:33

                                                    And it, for instance, made me a guy at work that has to take some time off. And there’s no shame in that. But I thought there was a first you know, and there is no shame. So carry on, do your best, and rely on those around you.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:21:00

                                                    Awesome way to finish the podcast. Mate, thank you so much for reaching out and being on the show, Kevin, I appreciate it.

                                                    Kevin R. Housman 1:21:07

                                                    I loved it. Bill, thank you for your help.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:21:11

                                                    Thanks for joining us on today’s Lower Basal Ganglia Stroke episode, Kevin is an amazing guy doing great things and paints the picture about how to keep going after recovery no matter what comes up. Now, remember, to grab a copy of chapter one of the book The unexpected way that stroke became the best thing that happened.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:21:35

                                                    Just visit recoveryafterstroke.com/book Take a look around and discover what the book is all about. Click the Download Free Chapter button. As always, to learn more about my guests, including links to their social media and other pages, and to download a full transcript of the entire interview.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:21:54

                                                    Please go to recoveryafterstroke.com/episodes to all those people who have already left a review it means the world to me thank you so much. You are helping others in need of this type of content to find it easier and that’s making the stroke recovery just that little bit better.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:22:13

                                                    If you haven’t left a review yet and you would like to the best way to do it is to go to Spotify and iTunes and leave a five-star review there. And a few words about what the show means to you. If you’re watching on YouTube, comment below the video video.

                                                    Bill Gasiamis 1:22:30

                                                    I love seeing the comments and I respond to all the comments like this episode of course and to get notifications of future episodes subscribe to the show. Thanks again for being here and listening are appreciate you see you on the next episode.

                                                    Intro 1:22:48

                                                    Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals’ opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast or the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed all content on this website at any linked blog, podcast or video material controlled this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill gaseous the content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing.

                                                    Intro 1:23:22

                                                    It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice the information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances, or health objectives. Do not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose treat, cure, or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional.

                                                    Intro 1:23:42

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                                                    Intro 1:24:09

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                                                    Intro 1:24:25

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                                                    The post Lower Basal Ganglia Stroke Recovery | Kevin R. Housman appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

                                                    1 hr 25 min

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