Recovery After Stroke

Recovery After Stroke

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Recovery After Stroke episodes

  • The Emotional Rollercoaster of Stroke Recovery – Blair Ames

    After a hemorrhagic stroke caused by a ruptured AVM at age 33, Blair Ames turned to blogging to discuss his stroke recovery experiences.

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    Highlights:

    01:00 Introduction

    04:43 Stroke at the age of 33
    08:54 The stroke symptoms
    14:38 When the gravity of the situation hits you
    18:45 The Emotional Rollercoaster of Stroke Recovery
    24:43 Dealing with new emotional states
    27:42 Setting a stroke recovery deadline
    31:59 The importance of sleep in stroke recovery
    44:06 Managing time for stroke recovery
    49:35 Avoiding alcohol after a stroke
    1:02:14 The current status of the AVM
    1:09:02 The possibility of another AVM bleed
    1:17:49 Blair’s advice to stroke survivors

    Transcript:

    Blair Ames 0:00

    I mean, for me, the emotional aspect of recovery has certainly been the biggest challenge. The physical aspects for me, I felt like it kind of came naturally. I’ve always enjoyed physical activity, working out. So I was never worried about being able to kind of rebuild myself. But for me, stroke recovery has kind of been everything I never would have expected it to be, in terms of the emotional and psychological aspect of it. That it’s been a significant challenge for sure.

    Intro 0:47

    This is the recovery after stroke podcast. With Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after stroke.

    Introduction


    Bill Gasiamis 1:00
    Hello, and welcome to episode 249 of the recovery after stroke podcast. My guest today is Blair Ames, a guest who was really grateful to be able to join me on the podcast, because Blair experienced a bleed on the brain at age 33, due to an arteriovenous malformation.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:21

    And he discovered the podcast early on. And he reached out a number of times to speak with me to be on the show. But we were never able to make it happen, because he was never able to fill up to the conversation and to be on a zoom call.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:40

    But now he is. And that is an amazing thing. I am so grateful that somebody who has been on this journey for a couple of years is now good enough, well enough, comfortable enough to finally get back in touch and say, Hey, are we going to do this?

    Bill Gasiamis 1:57

    Let’s do this podcast interview. So I’m grateful. And this is what stroke recovery is it is tough, and it’s difficult. But with time things do improve, and things get better. So that’s enough from me, and I hope you enjoy this interview. Blair Ames, welcome to the podcast.

    Blair Ames 2:23

    Thanks for having me.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:24

    It took a while. But we got here. We were trying to get this organized for quite some time. Stroke recovery goes like that it takes a while to get over the line sometimes.

    Blair Ames 2:38

    Yeah, Bill, your podcast when I first returned home from the hospital and rehab center, your podcast was one of the first resources I found to really learn more about stroke recovery. And I remember reaching out to you multiple times just exchanging emails, exchanging notes. And it’s kind of surreal to be talking to you now. But it’s a pleasure. I’m looking forward to it.

    Bill Gasiamis 3:01

    It’s a pleasure here mate. I’m glad when I come across a stroke survivor who’s got a struggle and not realizing at the beginning that you’re in the beginning of this whole saga. And what that needs to do is probably get you over the line with you know, rest recuperation, working out this new version of yourself, you know, there’s so many things to consider.

    Bill Gasiamis 3:27

    And reaching out is a quick thing. Like it’s clearly okay, you know what, this guy knows what’s happening, let me reach out to him and then I’ll get some solutions to some problems, who knows what, but then sometimes that’s not the first thing you need to be doing.

    Bill Gasiamis 3:42

    The first thing you need to be doing is taking care of yourself and finding a way to deal with everything and get better and be healthier. And it happens a lot. A lot of stroke survivors will reach out to me and then I’ll hear from them a year later. And they’ll be telling me how far along they are compared to when they first reached out.

    Bill Gasiamis 4:02

    And that’s the real exciting part. It’s that I get to see people actually get to overcome a lot of the challenges. And even in the state that they arrived at 12 months later, they’re still talking to me about how much better it is and how much more energetic they are and how now they’re able to actually be available to be on the podcast and they’re gonna make it through a whole episode rather than fall asleep or something. And that’s so heartwarming and that’s just brilliant. So I’m just as excited that you’re here as you are. So tell me a little bit about what happened to you.

    Stroke at the age of 33


    Blair Ames 4:43
    Of course. So I am now as of today just past the 23 month mark. I at age 33 I was in the middle of the gym, working out. started to feel a little funky, I ended up going outside thinking I just needed a breath of fresh air to relax. And over the course of, you know, 10 to 20 minutes after I left the gym, I was standing by my car and I collapsed.

    Blair Ames 5:16

    Thankfully, there was a number of people nearby who were able to come over, help get me comfortable, call 911. And I was rushed to a hospital. And that’s where I learned what a stroke was, what an AVM was, where my AVM was all those details. So I was certainly one of those people before stroke. I had no idea what a stroke was. I had no idea what an AVM was.

    Bill Gasiamis 5:48

    So I looked at your scan, because you’ve got it on your blog website, what is it strokerecoveryrehab.com. That’s it. Yep. And that image looks very similar to my image. So I had an AVM that bled, it was near the cerebellum, nice and deep they called it.

    Bill Gasiamis 6:14

    And you wouldn’t believe it. So a friend of mine who helped me get through that time in 2012, was a radiographer who put me in touch with some awesome neurosurgeons and all those things, used to give me some feedback on the scans, and all that kind of stuff a little bit more detailed feedback than what you would get from your doctor, you know, because he was the one actually doing the scans.

    Bill Gasiamis 6:41

    His daughter, who’s 17, literally a month ago, had an AVM that bled. And it looks almost identical to the image that you’ve got there, and my image, this is becoming a little bit annoyingly common. And it’s supposed to be rare. Right? So before you went to the gym, did you notice anything in the weeks months leading up to it that perhaps something was about to? Well, in hindsight that something was brewing?

    Blair Ames 7:23

    No, absolutely nothing at all. It was, a very normal Saturday morning for me. When I started feeling funky in the gym. Like many other people, I just chalked it or like many other people would I just chalked it up to you know, we had a late night the night before, maybe had a few too many, was very hot out. I had no idea that there was anything bubbling under the surface.

    Bill Gasiamis 7:51

    It sounds like you read straight out of the rulebook, how to reflect back on why you’re having a stroke it’s like, I had too much to drink or I was at the football and I was screaming too much or so many excuses that are not relevant. But we chalk it up to anything that our mind tells us might be appropriate, just so that we can somehow get through.

    Bill Gasiamis 8:21

    I must add as we continue that my friend’s daughter went from ICU to back on her feet within a month. So it’s extremely a good outcome. So for anyone who was going to be concerned about that, thank you for your concern. And I just wanted to get that out of the way now.

    Blair Ames 8:40

    That’s great to hear.

    Bill Gasiamis 8:41

    Yeah, it’s really good. So you’re in the gym. And now what happens? How do you get help? How do you move through that phase?

    The stroke symptoms

    Blair Ames 8:54

    Yeah, of course, I was about halfway through a workout. And one of the first things I started to notice was my vision was a little blurry. So I thought perhaps I had put my contacts in the wrong eyes. That’s what I use. You were just saying, you know, we kind of chalk it up to two other events.

    Blair Ames 9:14

    But then as I went to pick up a dumbbell, my left hand, my fingers wouldn’t grasp the dumbbell. I couldn’t, you know, I couldn’t grip the dumbbell. So at that point, I was like, you know, I need to go outside, take a break. And I kind of stumbled on my way out, I kind of tripped over my my gym bag.

    Blair Ames 9:39

    But I did did make it outside to my car. And while I was in my car, I was texting my girlfriend at the time who’s now my fiancee. I was texting her and just letting her know that I was feeling a little off and I was like, Hey, you might need to come get me I might need some water.

    Blair Ames 10:03

    And over the course of maybe just five or 10 minutes sitting in the driver’s seat, I really started to feel just very discombobulated, I struggled, even just leaning the seat back to lay down and relax. And so I texted her and I was like, my mood shifted from, you might need to come get me to, I would like you to come here now please, like pretty soon because I feel pretty funky.

    Blair Ames 10:31

    And then as I mentioned, once I had got out of the driver’s seat to just lay down in the backseat. And as I opened up that rear door, that’s when I just collapsed to the ground. And that’s when there were some nearby people who were able to rush over and, you know, thankfully keep me comfortable and call an ambulance.

    Bill Gasiamis 10:54

    So left side deficits, you collapsed, because you couldn’t feel one side of the body or were you dizzy? What happened that made you collapse?

    Blair Ames 11:05

    To be honest, I don’t it just, it all happened so fast. You know, I opened up the rear door, I just wanted to lay down in the back seat thinking I could just you know, relax all these weird feelings away. And I assume my left side kind of, I guess just gave out at that point, maybe

    Bill Gasiamis 11:25

    Relax all those weird feelings away?

    Blair Ames 11:29

    I was going to try.

    Bill Gasiamis 11:30

    I love it. I was in my car the third time it bled. And I thought I’d walk around the outside of the car. And that will make my symptoms go away. But alas, it did not work. It worked for a moment. And then when I got back into the car, I realized this is pretty bad. So she was with you by now. And then how did you guys respond to your collapsing? What happened then?

    Blair Ames 11:57

    Oh, yeah, it was actually great timing on her part. She got there as the ambulance got there. And you know, I was very lucky to have her by my side this whole time. She was she was there as because we had we had originally gone to a local regional hospital.

    Blair Ames 12:16

    And I needed to be airlifted to Johns Hopkins in Baltimore, which is about three hours away from where we are on the eastern shore. And no, she was she was great. She was there with me the entire time. And I think for her and my family as they traveled down from Philadelphia to be at the hospital in Baltimore. You know, I think it was honestly probably a little bit harder on them than it was for me because I was so naive to what was going on.

    Blair Ames 12:54

    I was in the ambulance. I was just worried that, you know, this is gonna be really expensive. And this is really annoying. Am I going to have to come back to the gym tomorrow to finish this workout? Or am I going to do a different workout? So for me, I was very just kind of annoyed by what was happening to me. I was never really worried about what was happening to me. And I guess I think it’s just because I was so naive to the seriousness of it.

    Bill Gasiamis 13:29

    Yeah. So your parents coming down? How far are they traveling?

    Blair Ames 13:34

    Philadelphia to Baltimore about two and a half, three hours depending on traffic.

    Bill Gasiamis 13:38

    Yeah. Okay. So it’s a reasonably quick trip. But nonetheless, it’s a hike. They’ve got to get there. They just know there’s something wrong. They don’t know what’s wrong. They’re probably at their wit’s end. It’d be a hard drive. For sure. Your girlfriend at the time is how is she coping with all of this? She’s being the middle person between you and your parents? How’s she doing?

    Blair Ames 14:03

    You know, she was great for me just to have her there with me the entire time. So I’m not alone in those hospital rooms as I’m waiting for the helicopter crew to get there. But I know it was it was certainly hard on her. She had an interesting story that she told me after the fact but there was one point where I had been wheeled back for my initial CT scan.

    When the gravity of the situation hits you

    Blair Ames 14:38

    And the nurse was coming by and she had asked the nurse, you know, is the is he going to be okay? And she told me that the nurse didn’t give her an answer. The nurse just handed her a box of tissues. And that was it. So when I heard that story, after probably many months later, that really kind of just triggered how serious you know, this situation was. And like I said at the time, I was completely oblivious.

    Bill Gasiamis 15:13

    Yeah. You know, that seriousness when it finally hits home. How does it impact your emotions and your mental health? Because I’ve had a lot of people that I’ve spoken to clients, and also, podcast guests who have told me that there was a realization that there was kind of like a line in the sand moment when they realized that they could have not been around.

    Bill Gasiamis 15:43

    And sometimes you hear about people who almost had a car crash and make it sound like they had a car crash. And it’s like, they go nuts, and they lose it at the other driver. And my whole theory on that is, when that happens to me in the car, the whole theory is, well, we didn’t collide, right? So everything that you are talking about didn’t happen.

    Bill Gasiamis 16:08

    So we had the best outcome, and nothing went wrong, because we didn’t collide. But then the other person is treating it as if they collided, right? So stroke survivors have this thing where some people imagine themselves having died, and that they’re not around anymore. And the gravity of that is really a lot to bear.

    Bill Gasiamis 16:35

    What kind of guy are you? Are you the guy that goes up? I got away with it. Like I say, like, I tend to sort of say, well dodged the bullet. And then other people go, Oh, my gosh, I don’t know what that means that I’m I’m here, but I should not be or may not be, may not have been or may not be in the future. It’s the first time they really get a sense of mortality. What happened? How did you cope with that?

    Blair Ames 17:04

    Yeah, you know, I would say, certainly, I’m not the kind of person I’m not the kind of individual who had a stroke. And it’s like, you know that old version of me died that day. That’s a little too dark for me to say something like that. I think it’s maybe more important to think about how you’re just evolving, you’re not so much, you know, lamenting how that old version of you is gone, you’re just evolving into a different person. But overall.

    Intro 17:42

    If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. Like, how long will it take to recover? Will I actually recover? What things should I avoid in case I make matters worse.

    Intro 17:59

    Doctors will explain things that obviously, you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask. If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you.

    Intro 18:22

    It’s called seven questions to ask your doctor about your stroke. These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition, they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery, head to the website now, recoveryafterstroke.com and download the guide. It’s free.

    The Emotional Rollercoaster of Stroke Recovery


    Blair Ames 18:42
    I mean, for me, the emotional aspect of recovery has certainly been the biggest challenge. The physical aspects for me, I felt like it kind of came naturally. I’ve always enjoyed physical activity working out. So I was never worried about being able to to kind of rebuild myself. But for me, Stroke recovery has kind of been everything I never would have expected it to be in terms of the emotional and psychological aspect of it. It’s been a significant challenge for sure.

    Bill Gasiamis 19:29

    Okay. I find this as well. So people come along and they say, you know, I need some help with my recovery. I want to get beyond my stroke deficits and all that type of thing. And they see the obvious physical deficits as the thing that steps in the way of their recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 19:50

    And then it’s a real difficult conversation to have with somebody to sort of suggest that the deficit that you’re dealing with, I’ve got nothing to do with your stroke recovery, they’ve just got to do with one aspect of your physical of the way you physically move around the world.

    Bill Gasiamis 20:10

    How you respond to that emotionally, and how you respond to that mentally, is what exactly what you said is where the challenge is. And if you’re somebody whose life before stroke, was, “I avoid problems, and I don’t tackle my challenges, and I live in fear, and I’m emotionally unintelligent, so I have low emotional intelligence”, then what that’s going to do is that’s just gonna rear its ugly head when it comes to overcoming a dramatic life event.

    Bill Gasiamis 20:41

    And what you’re often dealing with is you’re not dealing with the stroke recovery, you have to unpack and undo and resolve all the past life events that are stacked up. And then once you kind of get through those, you can learn about how to go through potentially walking with a deficit, or not being able to use one of your arms or a more dramatic deficit than that. So does that resonate with you? Is that how your experience about the past came into play now into this after stroke version of you?

    Blair Ames 21:26

    I feel like for me, I was, you know, I was somebody that before stroke, I was very lucky. I certainly, wouldn’t say I faced a ton of adversity in life, until stroke, you know, outside of, you know, any standard education, work problems that are now just pale in comparison to having a stroke.

    Blair Ames 21:47

    So, for me, I think as soon as I had a stroke, I had recognized that, you know, I had been very lucky up into this point, in terms of having no other significant health problems. So I think I wanted to embrace, you know, the challenge of stroke recovery.

    Blair Ames 22:08

    And even with that, you know, there certainly have been points over the past two years, where that’s, it’s a difficult burden to carry. Especially when, you physically look fine, everything’s good. People think you’re, “better”. And you’re kind of, you know, every minute of every day is still affected by stroke, in a sense, and how you go about things. So no, carrying that burden of stroke and stroke recovery, especially as you get back into work life, you know, get back into all of your personal commitments. It’s, certainly a challenge to balance all those things, of course.

    Bill Gasiamis 23:00

    yeah. So this just occurred to me that perhaps for me, because I have a similar approach to the way or have a similar kind of way that I’ve got the stroke in that the things that I thought were problems weren’t really problems, I made them big problems. And then I had the stroke, and then I was very easily able to assess or what was a serious problem before the stroke, which really wasn’t.

    Bill Gasiamis 23:29

    And now what really is something that I’ve got to take seriously, and I’ve got to step up to. Before I used to complain about problems and not really do anything about them, because I could complain about them and get it off my chest for a little bit of then feel okay, and then just move on with the rest of my day.

    Bill Gasiamis 23:46

    What just occurred to me was, that perhaps for me, what it was, was new, emotional states I had never experienced before and new mental states I’d never experienced before. And that inability to know how to react or respond to that made it very difficult because that meant I had to stay in those new emotional states negative mostly, and then negative mental health space for a bit longer than I was comfortable with.

    Bill Gasiamis 24:20

    And then it’s like, Okay, remember the ones where you used to be able to just push them aside and pretend that they weren’t there. This is not going to allow you to do that. You’ve got to tackle this. And you’ve got to resolve it. And I don’t know how long that journey is going to take. Because I don’t know how long the stroke incident is going to continue for.

    Dealing with new emotional states

    Bill Gasiamis 24:43

    And for me, it continued for nearly three years before I had surgery to remove the AVM and then I had to deal with not being able to walk again and all the stuff that the surgery caused, and then living with all the deficits that I live with every day, which is the left side numbness, the pins and needles, the proprioception issues, and the fact that everyone thinks I’m perfectly okay. Because I look okay. So, any of that sound familiar? Is that kind of where you’re at? Or are you somewhere else?

    Blair Ames 25:20

    Literally everything you just said sounds familiar. No, I agree with everything you just said. 100% when you were discussing the emotional states and how they’re new emotional states that you hadn’t dealt with before, I think for me, I’ve definitely noticed I’m more irritable than I was before.

    Blair Ames 25:53

    In the hospital, my mother, my sister, Mallory my fiance, they all told me to a tee that I was being mean, I was being rude. And at the time, I wasn’t doing anything like that intentionally. So that was something that I struggled with. And as I continued in recovery, up until now, about two years post, I still find myself getting easily frustrated over things.

    Blair Ames 26:28

    Whether it be a work assignment, or if just, you know, kind of, I’m not feeling too great a day, and we had some plans. And now I have to manage that. I do find myself getting easily frustrated to this day. And that’s something I’m working through for sure.

    Bill Gasiamis 26:46

    Are you comparing the old Blair and going oh, man, this used to be easy, why can I do this? How are you getting frustrated? Is it at yourself? The situation? How specifically?

    Blair Ames 27:00

    Oh, yeah, a good question. I don’t, I don’t think it’s because I compare myself to the way that I used to do things. I think I’m just annoyed by the current situation. And that it’s, you know, I’m two years after stroke, and I’m still, you know, still not back to where I feel I need to be. So it’s more of just an you know, it’s I’m tired of dealing with this day by day type frustration. So I most most days are okay, at this point. But there certainly are some moments where you know, those post stroke feelings kind of rear their ugly heads for sure. Yeah.

    Setting a stroke recovery deadline

    Bill Gasiamis 27:42

    Yeah. So did you perhaps have a timeline or a deadline that you thought this was going to be all resolved by and you haven’t reached it? And that’s part of the thing that’s getting in your way, about how you feel about the whole thing?

    Blair Ames 28:00

    No, I certainly learned early on that setting, arbitrate deadlines in recovery is a bad idea. I think for me, as I progressed pretty quickly, in those initial weeks and months. Like by the end of that first year, I had assumed alright, we’ll be back to normal by four months by five months by six months.

    Blair Ames 28:27

    And then once you hit those, those checkpoints, and you realize how far you feel you still have to go? Yes, it’s hard. It’s devastating to deal with. So no, I’ve kind of given up on setting deadlines. I prefer to just set monthly goals of something I feel like I can accomplish over the next 30 days. That makes me feel like I’m still moving forward in stroke recovery. So no, I agree. setting deadlines is not an optimal way to go.

    Bill Gasiamis 29:04

    Yeah. So how far have you come tell me about what you were faced with? What the deficits were and then how far you’ve come? And, of course, those deficits are not just the physical ones that could be fatigue and other things.

    Blair Ames 29:19

    Yeah, of course, well, in the hospital, I was told I was completely paralyzed on the left side, ended up staying in the hospital for about a week and a half to two weeks, and then went to an inpatient rehab center about same timeline. A week and a half, two weeks.

    Blair Ames 29:41

    I left the inpatient rehab center, I was able to walk out on my own with the assistance of a walker. So the physical deficits I do regret in those early weeks. I never let anybody take any photos Those are videos of me because I was just incredibly embarrassed that, you know, I was using a walker, that when I, when they would get me out of bed, I would kind of collapse on to the physical therapist or the occupational therapist.

    Blair Ames 30:16

    And then some of the other machines that they put you on to help you learn to walk again, I was really embarrassed by that, you know, somebody in my early 30s. And here I am, you know, I can’t get out of bed on my own. In terms of other deficits, once I returned home, you know, certainly vision has been a bit of a struggle for me, extended computer time at work.

    Blair Ames 30:47

    I definitely, you know, try and take breaks get outside. But that’s still you know, a bit of a nuisance here and there. Obviously, just riding in cars and being dizzy was a real struggle at the beginning. And then I’ve really struggled with with sleeping after stroke, it took me the better part of a year to realize that there was a consistent problem here.

    Blair Ames 31:16

    But I woke up at about 1:30 in the morning, pretty consistently, and then struggled to get back to sleep after my stroke, so that the not sleeping was a big was a big problem, which obviously contributed to that post stroke fatigue feeling. But yeah, I don’t I’m not sure I had any unique post-stroke deficits. It was all kind of what I’ve heard other stroke survivors talk about.

    Bill Gasiamis 31:48

    You know, this sleep thing. So does that mean that you’re getting less than five or six hours sleep at night at the beginning?

    The importance of sleep in stroke recovery

    Blair Ames 31:59

    It must have because, it was so frustrating, because I would have no problem falling asleep. And I’ve recognized early on how important sleep is going to be to recovery. So you know, I’m trying to fall asleep between 10 or 11. And I would have no problem falling asleep whatsoever.

    Blair Ames 32:21

    And in the middle of the night I wake up, be wide awake, we use the restroom, and then not be able to fall back asleep. And it’s like, let me look at my phone. And it’s 1:30 again. So for me, after that Some nights I would fall back asleep other nights, I would really struggle to fall back asleep. So in those early months I was I’d say I definitely getting less than five to six hours most nights.

    Bill Gasiamis 32:50

    Okay, here comes the diagnosis from our first meeting ever and my professional opinion as a stroke survivor. So what I learned about sleep because I suffered a little bit about sleep. And this is just food for thought for people to hear about. And maybe it is for them, maybe it’s not, and I’m not a doctor and don’t take any of my advice.

    Bill Gasiamis 33:11

    But what it could be it could be the adrenal situation, adrenal glands, it could be something to do with the pituitary gland, it could be to do with the thyroid. If you’re waking up in the middle of the night, at the same time, it’s potentially an excessive amount of the stress hormone cortisol occurring at that time and interrupting with your sleep cycle.

    Bill Gasiamis 33:38

    So cortisol is part of the sleep cycle. And it usually comes at sunrise, it usually decreases melatonin. And then as melatonin decreases, cortisol increases. And then what happens is, you start to get awake in bed, and then a couple of hours later, an hour and a half later, the cortisol drops off, and you just go into your regular day.

    Bill Gasiamis 34:03

    Now, additional cortisol spikes happen when you have a coffee. They also happen when you go for a drive to work and there’s traffic and somebody cut you off. And then when you get to work and your inbox is full, but cortisol, because of the adrenal glands happening in the middle of the night, is what causes people waking is part of what causes the people waking.

    Bill Gasiamis 34:30

    Now what we do is we get into our heads and then at that moment, when you get into your head and look at your phone, you’ve completed the circuit to stay awake. And what’s really necessary to do is to walk out of your bedroom and not look at the phone if you can, perhaps read a book or do something but outside of the bedroom so that your bedroom becomes a place of just sleep and not awake time.

    Bill Gasiamis 34:57

    So that you start to kind of habituate your already, so that as you walk into your bedroom, and as you’re in the bedroom, you’re only in the bedroom for sleep time, not tossing around time and not wondering why the hell am I awake again time and all that kind of stuff, right?

    Bill Gasiamis 35:15

    So just a few little bits and pieces of stuff that is coming back for me because I also experienced that. And even a couple of nights ago, I woke up at 2:30. And my regular routine when I wake up is I wake up because I’m thirsty. But then, of course, while I’m awake, and I’m thirsty, and I have a drink while most I go to the toilet, and then come back and then fall asleep.

    Bill Gasiamis 35:42

    And usually, that works. But this time, I wake up at 230. And I couldn’t go back to sleep. So I stayed out of my room for a while, then I went back into the room, and then I fell asleep at around five o’clock. And then I woke up at seven with the alarm. So it’s not uncommon for it to continue to occur from time to time, and I’ve kind of taken it as well, if it’s happening today. I’m just going to have to deal with it today.

    Bill Gasiamis 36:14

    And I’ll be better tomorrow. And I always tell myself, I’m going to this is a loss for me tonight, I’m going to give you the win. And tomorrow, I’m going to catch up. And usually that meant that last night I went to bed at around 9:30. And this morning, I woke up really well at around 6:30.

    Bill Gasiamis 36:36

    So you kind of give yourself the opportunity to catch up later rather than over, over, kind of think about it or get concerned about it or frustrated about it. But it does. I know I know that it’s hard because it means that that day, you’re going to be less than an optimum state.

    Bill Gasiamis 36:55

    And I definitely used to suffer that day. Quite a lot. So what do you do? What did you do to sort of start to get back into the routine? Did you notice that your sleep improved gradually on its own? Did you need some help with that? How did you get better at that?

    Blair Ames 37:18

    I’ve experimented with a ton of different just lifestyle adjustments supplements over the past two years. Because like I said, for me, it took me the better part of about a year and a half to actually realize something was wrong. Because for the most part like when you wake up in the middle of the night, like you said sometimes you’ll just get a drink of water go to the bathroom and then you can’t fall back asleep and that you know that that happens that’s normal.

    Blair Ames 37:53

    Sometimes it was you know an excuse of there was a loud noise outside there were neighbors were loud. excuse of you know, we stayed out too late. I was on my phone too late, I had trouble falling asleep. So I’m you know, I’m a real psycho and I write down what time I go to bed every night and what time I wake up. So I was looking for patterns to see what was going on here.

    Blair Ames 38:21

    And like you had alluded to, it’s very easy to put too much pressure on yourself to fall back asleep. And then that prevents you from falling back asleep. So I totally agree with your your proposal of you know, sometimes you’d have to get out of your bedroom for a little bit.

    Blair Ames 38:40

    So certainly for me when I do have a rough night of sleep I do try and go to our spare bedroom or just lay down on the couch for a little bit to try and sleep somewhere else. But some of the most effective practices that I’ve used over the past two years, one of my absolute favorites is drinking tart cherry juice. I found that to be Helpful.

    Blair Ames 39:11

    How is that helpful man? Please.

    Blair Ames 39:16

    Oh I enjoy the taste. So I enjoy drinking tart cherry juice a couple hours before bed.

    Bill Gasiamis 39:25

    You’ve said the word tart. And I had the experience of the tart thing that happens in the back of your mouth when you eat something tart. So that’s why I had to ask that question I’ve reacted immediately.

    Blair Ames 39:38

    I know not everybody enjoys the taste of cherry juice. I’ve enjoyed it. It was interesting tart cherry juice is a big one. Taking l’theanine was a big supplement for me. And then also trying to get outside as the sunsets. That’s another big one. And then the last one, which was a really basic, simple one is just taking a hot shower, you know about an hour and a half before bed. So I try as as often as I can to combine those four practices together. And for me, as of today, I’m sleeping better now than I did before my stroke. And those nights where I wake up at 1:30 are very few and far between.

    Bill Gasiamis 40:39

    That’s good. That little trick of seeing the sunset, that’s great, because that does start to bring on the melatonin and start to decrease your cortisol levels. So that’s really good. switching off lights, if you can, that are above your head helps and just put on really warm lamps in the corners of the rooms that you’re going to be spending some time in.

    Bill Gasiamis 41:03

    Also little bits of things that might help. A really good book that I’ve recommended to a lot of people is a book called The Sleep book, How to sleep well, every night by Dr. Guy Meadows. And he’s from an organization that he calls the sleep school.

    Bill Gasiamis 41:19

    And I’ve read a couple of books about sleep. And one of the best ones that I read about sleep, which was good to give you an insight in what sleep is and how sleep works. And all that kind of stuff was, of course now just escaped my mind as I started, Why We Sleep by Matthew Walker.

    Bill Gasiamis 41:46

    It’s a great book in that it gives you a great insight into what sleep is. Scientifically, it has been a little bit poo pooed by his peers, because they question his scientific method. But if you’re interested in sleep, ideas, and how sleep works, and all that kind of stuff, it’s still a really great book.

    Bill Gasiamis 42:13

    Because if you’re like me who’s not scientific, you don’t really mind how he tells the story, and why he tells the story. So I got so much out of that book, that was such a great book. But then, for tips and tricks that will support sleep, this book by Guy meadows, is a really good read.

    Bill Gasiamis 42:37

    It’s easy, it’s short, it’s not too overly scientific. But it is based in a scientific method, because what he because he’s the sleep guru or sleep guy, you know, or he has the sleep school. They have a lot of data. And they have a lot of evidence to show the things that are proven to work that support the sleep cycle. So anyone listening wants to just go and check out the sleep book by Dr. Guy Meadows. And then Matthew Walker’s book was a game changer for me.

    Blair Ames 43:16

    Thank you for that. I love a good book recommendation.

    Bill Gasiamis 43:19

    Yeah, you’re welcome. Just another version of Matthew Walker’s book. In a more succinct, more nuanced kind of approach towards sleep. It’s just very, to the point, you know, there’s not a lot of filler, you know, not that Matthew Walker’s book is like that.

    Bill Gasiamis 43:41

    I really, I gotta say, well, Matthew Walker’s book was the first one I read. That just changed my idea about what I was trying to do and how I was trying to go about sleep and why I was sleeping and all that stuff. You know. So guy Meadows is the is that this is what we know works for people kind of book.

    Blair Ames 44:04

    That’s great. I’ll put that one on my list. Thank you.

    Managing time for stroke recovery


    Bill Gasiamis 44:06
    Yeah, check it out. So it’s only been two years in my estimate, on your overcoming your challenges. So which means that you’ve come a long way, and you’ve got a long way to go. Right? And I only say it’s only been nearly two years, because I just mentioned my challenges, and it’s been 11 years.

    Bill Gasiamis 44:29

    So it’s not like you haven’t come a long way already you have and if you’re the type of person who is curious as you are, and has put some time and effort into discovering what’s going to help you and support you and you continue doing that. By the time we get to 10 or 11 years, you’re going to have this nailed down and you’re going to have a routine that works for you.

    Bill Gasiamis 45:00

    You’re gonna have a clear in your mind and in the way that you go about life, and that’s going to make your life a lot easier. So last night, for example, it was a Friday night for us. And we usually do something on a Friday night, we go somewhere, you know, we go out, we catch up with some friends, whatever.

    Bill Gasiamis 45:18

    And for me, if I had done that, today would have been a really difficult day for me, it would have been tiresome, I wouldn’t been able to be productive. I certainly wouldn’t have enjoyed being on the podcast, even though for my guests, I always turn up and I try and do my best.

    Bill Gasiamis 45:35

    So I’m at that stage where all of those things that I’ve learned about how I need to act/behave, or prepare. They’re almost non negotiable. If I didn’t go to bed at 9:30, on a Friday, today wouldn’t have been a good day. So it’s not a sacrifice anymore.

    Bill Gasiamis 45:59

    It’s not like I’m missing out on anything that I used to feel like I was missing out on now what I’m doing is going, I need to be good on Saturday, because I don’t want to spend the whole day on the couch doing nothing and being unproductive.

    Bill Gasiamis 46:13

    So as you move into your recovery, and you start getting better at it, and by the way, you’re going to continue to recover, you’re going to continue to feel better, you’re going to continue to dial in all those little things that are challenging you.

    Bill Gasiamis 46:29

    What will happen is you’ll feel really good about where things are at regardless of whether or not you have a deficit and a bad day, one in every 10 days, it won’t really bother you. How do you feel about the future? Going forward? What is your Have you contemplated at all?

    Blair Ames 46:52

    Yeah, well, no, certainly, Bill, I appreciate your your kind words and encouragement. You know, I’ve certainly enjoyed your podcasts over the years for that just to to learn about how you’re going to progress over the years. I mean, I think I certainly recognize I’m still very early on in this process only being two years. I’m certainly hopeful that, you know, I’ll continue to get better and perhaps, you know, obviously have days where the stroke doesn’t affect me as much as it does today.

    Blair Ames 47:29

    I guess for me, I feel like I’m at that point in recovery, where Like, I’m back to doing everything that I need to do. And it’s really just a matter of, of managing everything kind of like you were discussing where you know, you have to go to bed around a decent hour on Friday, or else you know, Saturday, you won’t be very lively. When you said that I I agree with that wholeheartedly, and I saw myself in your habits, I feel the same way.

    Bill Gasiamis 48:03

    Yeah, that’s what I found. And that’s what I encourage people to think about is to think about how with time and studying and becoming more educated about what they need, they will be able to create a routine for them, that works really well.

    Bill Gasiamis 48:20

    And that means they’re going to enjoy a lot of their life. Rather than pushing through for the sake of old habits and old behaviors and old patterns for other people and then suffering through the rest of the next week. And the next weekend or whatever. And I just can’t do that, I don’t drink any more when I go out. And if I do I have one drink and then people who drink with who I used to drink with will say, you know, they’ll say well, just one, you know, that’s it.

    Bill Gasiamis 48:57

    You only gonna have one, can we have another one? Or can we keep drinking or whatever. And it’s like, I can’t do that. I’m not going to do that. And I know that you need to or you want to, but I’m not that way anymore. I can’t do what I used to do with you for you or whatever. How do you feel your relationships are changing and evolving as you navigate being out and about with people? Has that been different?

    Avoiding alcohol after a stroke


    Blair Ames 49:35
    Yeah, man, this our conversation, I’ve really enjoyed it thus far, because so many of the things you’ve said, have rang so true to me. And as you were just discussing, you know, I don’t drink that much myself anymore. I’m like you if I go out I might have a drink here or there. But most nights I really just don’t.

    Blair Ames 49:59

    Don’t really You have the desire to have a drink anymore. And I’ve certainly gotten the comments over the past two years of, you know, why aren’t you any fun anymore? Why don’t you just have a couple of drinks? Why doesn’t Blair loosen up and have a couple of drinks?

    Blair Ames 50:18

    You know, when are we going to be able to do the things that we used to do type comments? And it’s certainly been tough at times. But for me in terms of having a drink of, you know, I could take it or leave it. And I think people are maybe starting to understand I don’t have a desire to drink a lot anymore. But certainly over the past two years, it’s been a bit of a learning curve for sure.

    Bill Gasiamis 50:52

    Yeah. It’s interesting with people who drink they need somebody to drink with. It’s so weird. I don’t get that. What if I’m just drinking sparkling water? Or a soda water next to you in a glass that appears like an alcohol class? Can I do that? Even that’s not enough? It’s kind of like, I need to be under the influence of alcohol so that you feel good about yourself being under the influence of alcohol? Like I’ve got to make it normal for you. I’ve got to normalize it. It’s really strange.

    Blair Ames 51:30

    No, I 100% I agree with you. And for me, I guess I’m glad I got my my drinking habits out of the way when I was in my 20s. I enjoyed it plenty, then, because I’m not really interested in all that anymore. But as I’ve transitioned to, to not drinking as much over these past two years, I’ve certainly realized what you have where it’s almost as if in terms of alcohol, it’s like, if you don’t drink, there’s something wrong with you.

    Blair Ames 52:03

    Whereas if you drink it’s, you know, is what you’re supposed to do. So that’s been an interesting realization for me is when you’re at an event, or you’re out and people see your you’re not having a drink, it’s do they assume something’s wrong with you.

    Bill Gasiamis 52:21

    And not that something wrong with you, which there actually is not like, they assume you have a medical issue, they assume you have a personality issue, isn’t it? Exactly, yes. That’s interesting. I’ve never thought about it like that before. But that’s exactly what they do. They make your personality, not the right kind, and not the right type, because you’re not drinking.

    Bill Gasiamis 52:46

    And the fact that you really actually have something wrong with you, is not relevant to their reasoning. And to their problem with you not drinking, they can’t come to terms with that. And maybe you’re also because you don’t look like you’ve had a stroke, so to speak, you’re also giving false signals as to, perhaps their eyes, so that they don’t grasp the concept of why he looks great, you know, and he talks about all this stuff, but I can’t see it. So you know, maybe he’s just become boring. Who knows?

    Blair Ames 53:28

    For sure, it’s, you know, if I go out here and there, I might feel the need to have a drink. But like I said, it’s just not really something that appeals to me anymore. Because I know it doesn’t really, it doesn’t help me feel any better. So I’ve, I’ve kind of lost interest in in that regard.

    Bill Gasiamis 53:47

    Yeah. And it says a lot about relationships that we’ve formed, that were formed, around drinking, and how shallow that relationship might be. And the depth of the relationships that we need to help get us through this time and to actually going to have decent, long term relationships with our family members or our friends.

    Bill Gasiamis 54:16

    It says a lot about perhaps also where they’re at in their life, and how their inflexible in flexibility is impacting the relationship in that they only relate to you as a person who is somebody who behaves a certain way who is more fun to be around or whatever it is. And that’s interesting that they’re in flexibility is turned into your your problem it’s made, you know, it’s kind of outsourced to you and that’s how I felt.

    Bill Gasiamis 54:50

    It’s like, I’m not telling you not to drink, man. I’m just telling you that I’m not drinking you know, leave me alone. I can’t do think and feel like I’m having another stroke again. I’m going to show if you understand what that means, I can’t do it. So you go for it. Or power to you, but just leave me out of it’s not a lot to ask. It’s such a simple thing to ask.

    Blair Ames 55:16

    No, exactly. It’s just like, you know, people still, if I ever hear a comment like that, normally I don’t pay much attention to it anymore. I’m very happy drinking my water, or whatever else it may be.

    Bill Gasiamis 55:27

    Yeah. So Mallory, your girlfriend at the time became your fiancee? How long after the stroke did she become the fiancee? And did you pop the question?

    Blair Ames 55:42

    Oh, yes, I see. I’m glad you asked that. So we had been dating. How many years we have been dating maybe three years, two and a half, three years at the time of my stroke. And I was actually, I had already been shopping for an engagement ring. I had the ring picked out. And on the day of my stroke that Saturday, I was supposed to call the jeweler to schedule an appointment for the next week to go pick out you know, the center stone.

    Blair Ames 56:17

    So of course, I didn’t get a chance to call him that day. I think I ended up calling him from the hospital a couple days later. And I was just like, hey, Sergio, you’ll never guess what happened, I guess I’ll see you in a couple of weeks. So I ended up going to see him. We’ve got the ring probably six to eight weeks after my stroke. And then I proposed to Mallory in September of that year, so about four months after the stroke. So we are four months delayed.

    Bill Gasiamis 56:55

    Yeah, that’s okay. She said yes. And was that a relief to you? Had you created any stories or any thoughts in your head about how that might go? Because of the stroke, because sometimes after these incidences, relationships change. I’m not questioning Mallory, or any anything like that. I’m just curious about what was going on in your head?

    Blair Ames 57:26

    No, of course. Well, I know she’ll appreciate you asking that. But she’s always been 100% supportive of me. And and I think, you know, our relationship over the past two years, was challenged because of the stroke for sure. But I think you could also argue that it’s been improved, because of the stroke now that we’ve gone through this together. And I mean, for me, I was just very disappointed that I hadn’t proposed to her sooner as I had a stroke, and as I was recovering.

    Blair Ames 58:08

    Because it just, there was a point in recovery. Where as we discussed earlier, it kind of dawned on me how close I was to not making it. And I think in the worst case scenario, if that would have happened. And I didn’t have the chance to propose to her. That thought devastated me. So after the stroke, and as I recovered, it was it became more and more of a point of I have to do this sooner rather than later.

    Bill Gasiamis 58:49

    Yeah, right. That was a little regret kind of looking around was it.

    Blair Ames 58:56

    Yeah, just as you look back on your older self, and it’s like, what was Why did I not do this sooner? You know, why did I almost not make it to this point of being able to do this?

    Bill Gasiamis 59:09

    And out of curiosity, why do you think you delayed that event?

    Blair Ames 59:15

    It was actually, my sister was getting married around that time, I was shopping for a ring. So that was part of it. Just that, you know, we were going through that with her. I don’t know, maybe it was just, I just was little too immature to get married.

    Blair Ames 59:34

    You know, I need to mature a little bit as I got through my early 30s. But I don’t know it was something I had been thinking about for a while and I just never really you know, I’ve been thinking about a ring. I just kind of never pulled the trigger, so to speak.

    Bill Gasiamis 59:51

    Yeah. Yeah. Well, look, it’s not uncommon people question that all the time that they should I should and I will To say, it’s pretty standard, you know, that’s nothing to be to feel bad about, but I get the part of oh my gosh, I almost never got the opportunity to and then that wouldn’t have been nice, at least then you would have had expressed your deepest desires.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:20

    And you would have been able to give that person the opportunity to know what your deepest desires were. And I think there’s an there’s a level of in a relationship is there’s there’s something really, really deep and meaningful, not just about the fact that you’re living together, but the fact that you’re prepared to ask such a serious question.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:46

    Which is, this is how I think of you like this, I don’t just think of you as somebody who we live together, and we’ve spent three years together, I think of you like this, I think that’s a really kind of deep, you know, emotional message that you’re sending to that person and to have the opportunity potentially go would have would have been a thing that wasn’t able for Mallory to experience.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:23

    And then I think that’s kind of where the both the for you, you’re kind of lost would have been in that phase. But also, she would have the loss of not experiencing the deep meaning of what it means for you to ask her the type of question that you were really hoping to ask.

    Blair Ames 1:01:48

    Yeah, and as we were discussing earlier, just about when the severity of the situation hit me, that was certainly part of that experience for me, you know, just realizing kind of what’s, what would have been left undone, so to speak. That was really eye opening as I progressed to recovery in those initial weeks and initial months.

    The current status of the AVM

    Bill Gasiamis 1:02:14

    So how did they resolve this AVM in your head? What did they do to resolve it? What’s stage is it at now?

    Blair Ames 1:02:24

    Yeah, well, I guess it’d be appropriate to say I still have it. It was in the right basal ganglia. And it was just since it’s, it’s really right there in the center of my brain. It wasn’t it was to it was unsafe to operate on it. So I’ve been undergoing radiation treatments. And I’ve had one or two thus far, and it’s been all the progress from the doctors has been positive. They they said on this on the CT scans on the MRIs, it’s closing up. So in the coming years, I will continue to go through all the MRIs, the CT scans, the angiograms, and hopefully, radiation treatment will resolve my view.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:17

    So is that radiation treatment, what they commonly refer to as gamma knife?

    Blair Ames 1:03:24

    I believe that’s correct. Yeah. I think mine’s I think what the device I was under was called the CyberKnife. But yeah, I think that’s correct.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:30

    Right, right. How does it feel when you go through that procedure when they zap your brain with radiation

    Blair Ames 1:03:38

    I have the helmet right here that holds your head down on the table.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:47

    Lift it up for us in the middle of the screen. And for everyone listening who wants to see it, I’ll post a picture of it in the show notes. And then if you go to the YouTube video, you’ll be able to see it as well. I’m definitely going to use that as the thumbnail of this podcast for sure.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:07

    And we’re gonna get you to pose with it later, before we end the show so people can see it straight away. So So what they do is they lay you down and then they put that amazing helmet on your head and what does that meant to do?

    Blair Ames 1:04:25

    This is just meant to hold your head in place to make the best of my understanding is to hold your head in place so they do not zap the wrong parts of your brain. And the you know, the the the radiation treatment itself may have been about an hour, hour, hour and a half for me and it’s certainly certainly wasn’t painful in the moment.

    Blair Ames 1:04:53

    You know, the after effects. You definitely feel it that day in terms of just the fatigue But it’s very, very difficult to get into a car afterwards. Very easy to just get dizzy standing up too quickly. So the the procedure itself, thankfully, is is painless. It’s the the after effects in the in the days and weeks afterwards that can be a little difficult. But for me I, I was pretty much fully recovered after a few days, I reported back to my neurosurgeon that I didn’t need any additional medication painkillers, anything like that I was able to bounce back pretty quickly.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:40

    And the second time, what’s more familiar? Does that make it easier? Does you get through it a lot better?

    Blair Ames 1:05:48

    Yeah, no, I just got going through the process, you know, multiple times and being there in the facility kind of knowing what the steps are. It was the honestly the hardest part for me, was the first time I had requested a certain Pandora station be put on my headphones during the procedure.

    Blair Ames 1:06:09

    And unfortunately, they ended up choosing like a Mexican pop station. So I was hoping for a different form of music. But I ended up laying there for the better part of an hour. Listening to like I said, sounded like Mexican pop music, I wasn’t quite sure what what it was, it was like Mexican salsa or something that made it uncomfortable.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:06:39

    They might have done it on purpose. I love that idea that the music made it uncomfortable. But it’s really important, isn’t it because it helps you focus concentrate, and get distracted from what’s going on around you. I remember going into the MRI, and then listening to, again, the local radio station, which was terrible. And you had to be in there for 30 or 40 minutes.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:07:05

    And just hoping that it was over. And then as I got to understand that I could request my own music, I took a guided meditation in with me. And that guided meditation, it lasted for the duration of the MRI. So not only was I meditating, putting myself into this space of feeling really calm and comfortable and all that kind of stuff.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:07:29

    The procedure just felt like minutes instead of 40 of them, you know, just felt like a couple of minutes. But everyone’s got, I reckon an experience with an MRI or gamma knife or something like that, where they have to remain still for a long period of time. And choice of music is far from optimal.

    Blair Ames 1:07:53

    That’s a great, great idea from you to use a meditation, I had never thought of that before. I was just thinking what is my favorite type of music that I would like to listen to for this, I’d never thought of taking a meditation in there.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:08:04

    Yeah, because and then the meditation, what it also does is hopefully it calms the body relaxes the muscles, it decreases the cortisol levels, it settles your heartbeat, it settles your blood pressure, it does all of that stuff. So it kind of creates, it puts you into an optimum state so that you can be the best kind of patient for them on the day. So it helps with their procedure, I feel.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:08:32

    So that was my thinking behind it, as well as the fact that I love meditations. And if, if I’m on a meditation and it kind of puts me to sleep, well, then that’s better than being anxious and annoyed and frustrated at what’s happening with your head locked into the device that they lock it into. So you don’t move. But that’s good man, that you’re you’re progressing through that resolution as well.

    The possibility of another AVM bleed

    Bill Gasiamis 1:09:02

    So to put this thing to bed, so to speak, has it been on your mind that they hadn’t removed that it was still there. And that it was hard to remove. Did you think about the fact that there was a possibility? Did they tell you that there might be a possibility that it re bleeds? How did you handle that part?

    Blair Ames 1:09:25

    Yeah, no, that’s that’s a good question. Um, for me, I was always advised that there was a very small chance that it would bleed again. You know, I don’t quite remember exactly the percentage they gave me. But I was always struck by as I researched AVMs myself and continued talking to doctors in the subsequent weeks and months after my stroke.

    Blair Ames 1:09:55

    That generally it seems like the the biggest precursor to an AVM rupturing is a previous rupture. So that was always a little unsettling. But over the past two years, it’s really it’s not something I generally think about. It doesn’t affect how I go about doing anything. I think I certainly hope I’m not in this situation. But if it were to ever happen again, I’m sure I would react a little differently this time around. But in terms of thinking about it on a day to day basis, I never really think about it.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:10:40

    Yeah, I like to think that you’re a smart guy, and that you would respond differently, I definitely responded differently. Every time I had a bleed, I was better and better and better. So mine bled three times. That’s why it lasted the whole process to surgery almost took three years, because they were hoping that wouldn’t bleed again. And they told me the same thing.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:11:05

    And I went about my life as normally as I could dealing with the deficits and the fatigue, and all that kind of stuff. But I still went about life. And I didn’t think about it on the daily. I’ve kind of mentioned that a few times. But my my motto in life is expect the best prepare for the worst. So I had contingency plans in place.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:11:28

    But I wasn’t going to go about being anxious about the fact that this thing would play it again, you know, we were we were just going to be proactive. If it did, we were going to do the right things and get help immediately. So that’s what we did. And and the third time when eventually, they bled the third time and they decided to take it out. It wasn’t me who said let’s get this thing out.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:11:55

    My surgeon said, it’s time to get it out. We need to get it out. We don’t want it to continue bleeding, it’s not likely that it’s going to stop bleeding. It seems like it’s one of the rarer ones that is that might continue to bleed. And that’s putting you at greater risk than surgeries. So we should go there, we should definitely get it done. Are you up for it? And I said, Well, yeah, I’m up for it.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:12:19

    Let’s resolve it one way or another. And that’s what we did. I like hearing your story, because you go about things in a very seems like a very calm, gentle way. You’re progressing really nicely. You know, you’ve overcome a lot of the hurdles, you’re aware of what some of the hurdles are, which is a really good thing, when you become aware that stroke recovery is not just about the physical recovery, it’s also about the mental and the emotional recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:12:54

    That’s a big game changer, man, that is making your stroke recovery far better than it would have been. And that’s also allowing you to deal with all the stuff that arises between you and Mallory in your relationship. Because you’re realizing they’re part of my response, my lack of emotional awareness, perhaps, or my emerging emotional awareness or my awareness that now that it’s happened, I have reacted, but now that it’s happened, I’m aware of it so I can resolve it with you.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:13:39

    I can tell you that I’m sorry, because I wasn’t intended to behave that way or whatever. And I’m doing better. And that is taking out the stress in the relationship. And that creates a bit of space for recovery. And that makes her feel about the things that you guys are going through better. So you’re just doing great things. And that’s what I said at the beginning of the podcast episode.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:14:04

    It’s like, it’s so good to have you here after us being in conversation on and off for the last couple of years. And then finally, to get you here, it’s like, wow, man, that is brilliant. Firstly, I’m grateful that you found me when you did and that the podcast gave you hope. And now, I’m certainly grateful that you’ve recovered to a point where you felt like you could be my guest and we could learn from each other.

    Blair Ames 1:14:34

    Yeah, Bill, I appreciate those kind words for sure. And you know, as I mentioned earlier, your podcast and those early days. We know when I was too tired to really get off the couch, you know, just pretty much worked through some rehab stuff and then sat on the couch all day before I was back at work. Certainly your podcast was one of the most popular things I watched on YouTube in those days. So I guess I like to think Maybe I picked up some of my perspective, from you and from I learned a lot from you.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:15:06

    They’re beautiful. And all those awesome guests that have come on before you as well to be a guest on my podcast is such an amazing thing for people to just say that they want to be on my podcast is just oh my gosh, like, it’s just the most amazing thing for me that somebody wants to be on my podcast, I love it. So thank you. As we kind of wrap this up, I was just curious about what you feel stroke has taught you.

    Blair Ames 1:15:33

    You know, I think as I mentioned earlier, stroke recovery is everything that I didn’t expect it to be. You know, in those early days in the hospital, I was just running through my mind all of the physical exercises, I could do all of the things I could do to get physically better.

    Blair Ames 1:16:05

    And then once I got out of the rehab center, and once I was home, just working through everything and realizing that, you know, my emotions were were sky high some days, and then in the bottom of the valley the next day, riding that roller coaster.

    Blair Ames 1:16:27

    I think stroke probably taught me a ton in terms of just how do we maintain our well being is not all about working out. It’s, you know, you know, it’s not all about being active. That’s That’s an incredible, credibly important part of it. But I’ve certainly learned the importance of sleep. I’ve I’ve as I had already pretty much dialed in my nutrition before I was big on nutrition before the stroke.

    Blair Ames 1:17:00

    But I’ve certainly made some changes in that regard. And then just overall, you know, how do you improve your mental well being, I think I’ve really realized the importance of meditation. I’m very grateful that I had started a meditation practice before stroke, because that was something that I leaned on heavily over these past two years.

    Blair Ames 1:17:24

    So I think stroke has really opened my eyes to some things that before the stroke I just never would have even thought to pursue. It’s taught me a lot about how I can physically improve my well being, you know, outside of the gym, and I’m grateful for those opportunities.

    Blair’s advice to stroke survivors

    Bill Gasiamis 1:17:49

    Brilliant. As we get to the final question, I’d like to ask you, there’s people that are listening now that are waiting in the same stage of recovery that you were two years ago. They’ve just found the podcast. And they’re trying to get as much information as they can out of us so that they can be guided on their own recovery. What would you tell somebody who might be listening? Who’s at early stages of recovery? What are some of the things that you’d like to impart on them that they should know? Maybe one thing doesn’t have to be lots.

    Blair Ames 1:18:29

    No, of course. And that’s something I thought about a lot in terms of what would if I could go back and talk to myself in those early days, you know, what would I tell myself, because I hate to sound like a broken record. But as I mentioned, it’s like I was just so naive to what I was getting into.

    Blair Ames 1:18:49

    You know, I was so focused on physically getting better. And I had no idea about the physical and mental challenges that were coming down the road. And I was really never someone that resonated with the stay positive mantra. That was something that was just “Thanks, I appreciate your advice”.

    Blair Ames 1:19:13

    But I think if I could give somebody advice, who is in my situation, I would tell them to just embrace those challenges, embrace those early days of recovery. Because I think when you’re really struggling, is when you really find the opportunities to find innovative solutions. And instead of, you know, being upset about the situation, just embrace the challenge. And, and, and be ready to learn a lot and be ready to to improve over time.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:20:00

    Beautiful Man. Blair, thank you so much for being on the podcast.

    Blair Ames 1:20:06

    Hey, Bill, thank you. I really appreciate your time.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:20:08

    Well, thanks for joining us on today’s episode, you can see now why I was so grateful to have Blair on the show. He has come a long way in his stroke recovery journey, but he’s got some way to go. And he’s been able to learn a lot about what this journey the road that this journey has put him on, he’s learned about himself, he’s learned about things that he never expected, he’s grown as a result, and his recovery continues to occur.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:20:42

    And he continues to evolve, which is just amazing. To learn more about my guests, including links to their social media and other pages, and to download a full transcript of the entire interview, please go to recovery after stroke.com/episodes.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:20:57

    If you would like to try the course five foods to avoid after stroke, go to recovery after stroke.com/courses If you’d like to support this podcast, and now I’m going to explain why you must support this podcast by giving it a five star reviews because people like Blair, who have been listening for two years, get to feel a lot better about the way that their recovery is coming along, and then get to finally be at that point where they can get on the podcast.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:21:24

    That’s exactly what the podcast is meant to do. Paint that picture is give hope is show people that there is light at the end of the tunnel. And therefore I would love it if you left the show a review so that more people like Blair, who are at the beginning of their journey can find the podcast and as a result of that hopefully make a difference to their recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:21:51

    It’s also something that helps the caregivers of the stroke survivors because a lot of caregivers reached out to me to tell me that the show has been really helpful. So any positive feedback on Spotify or on iTunes will really have any positive feedback on YouTube will really help and be really appreciated.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:22:12

    And it’s just going to make it easier for people like you and me to get what they are missing, which is what I was missing. When I was going on this journey. There was no podcasts in 2012, about the possibilities that I was going to get better after stroke. So it was a lot lonelier back then.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:22:31

    And I’m hoping that this podcast makes it less lonely for you. So that’s my request from you and then come and join me on the show. Come and be a guest on my show that interviews are not scripted, you don’t have to plan for them. All you need to do to qualify as be a stroke survivor, a caregiver of a stroke survivor or somebody who works in the field of helping stroke survivors.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:22:57

    So go to recoveryafterstroke.com/contact fill out the contact form. And as soon as I receive your request, I’ll respond with more details on how you can choose a time that works for you and me. We’re going to meet over zoom, the interview will be recorded it will go on YouTube, it’ll go on iTunes, Spotify, and everywhere else. And hopefully your interview with me will make a difference to some other people. So thanks again for being here and listening. I really appreciate you and see you on the next episode.

    Intro 1:23:28

    Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals opinions and treatment protocols disgusting any podcast or the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed all content on this website at any length blog, podcast or video material controlled this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis.

    Intro 1:23:58

    The content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice the information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances or health objectives. Do not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose treat, cure or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional.

    Intro 1:24:23

    Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional your doctor or your rehabilitation program based on our content if you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional if you are experiencing a health emergency or think you might be.

    Intro 1:24:39

    Call 000 if in Australia or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance or go to the nearest hospital emergency department. Medical information changes constantly. While we aim to provide current quality information in our content. We did not provide any guarantees and assume no legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, currency or completeness of the content.

    Intro 1:25:00

    If you choose to rely on any information within our content you do so solely at your own risk we are careful with links we provide however third party links from our website are followed at your own risk and we are not responsible for any information you find there

    The post The Emotional Rollercoaster of Stroke Recovery – Blair Ames appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

    1 hr 26 min
  • Cerebral Vasculitis, Stroke & Identity Change – Adam Wolfers

    Adam Wolfers is a father and a chef who has faced significant challenges in adapting to life after suffering from a stroke. However, he is making progress towards recovery despite the difficulties posed by the stroke.

    The Cook Up With Adam Liaw

    Instagram

    Highlights:

    00:43 Introduction

    03:31 Adam Wolfers had meningitis
    10:11 The ups and downs of striving for perfection
    12:24 What is Cerebral Vasculitis?
    18:58 Getting back to work too soon
    22:05 The world doesn’t stop when you have a stroke
    30:30 Being on a cooking show with Adam Liaw
    38:47 Pushing through the challenges
    46:10 The hardest part of the day
    51:20 Getting back on the bike after a stroke

    Transcript:

    Bill Gasiamis 0:00

    Are you having a bit of identity crisis where you don’t know exactly where you fit into the world at the moment?

    Adam Wolfers 0:06

    Yeah. Because everyone just kind of gets on with their own lives. I’ve noticed, I guess it’s as I sort of slow down and do nothing. I’m kind of like, oh, everyone’s just getting on with their lives. And it’s a bit of a funny one. Not fun, but pretty scary.

    Intro 0:30

    This is the recovery after stroke podcast. With Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after stroke.

    Introduction – Adam Wolfers


    Bill Gasiamis 0:43
    Hello, and welcome to episode 248 of the recovery after stroke podcast. My guest today is Adam Wolfers, a dad, a chef, a cyclist who experienced a stroke caused by cerebral vasculitis. Adam Wolfers, welcome to the podcast.

    Adam Wolfers 1:00

    Hi, how are you?

    Bill Gasiamis 1:02

    I’m well, man, thanks for being here. I’ve got awesome family scouting the world, you know, for stroke survivors that I should interview, a mate of mine a really good mate of mine was watching television in Australia here on SBS and I was watching a show that you were on.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:22

    It was a cooking show with Adam Liaw. And after watching the show and hearing your story, he goes, you should reach out to Adam and see if you can get him on the podcast. I thought alright, no worries. That’s exactly what I did. And you’re here. Tell me a little bit about what happened to you, man.

    Adam Wolfers 1:41

    So it all started, like this started the whole health scare basically started in the start of 2022. So January 2022, I got like, I was on holidays from work during Christmas period. That was kind of like when the COVID scare that second or third wave happened up in Queensland and the whole of Australia.

    Adam Wolfers 2:10

    And, you know, basically, as my background, I’m a chef. And you know, it’s a really stressful environment and hard working, and I’ve always been an overachiever in my entire life, which is.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:29

    Sounds like a predicament.

    Adam Wolfers 2:33

    Yeah. And, but basically, it all comes down to the start of my, accident it sort of started in December 2022. I got diagnosed with meningitis, who’s like, the viral meningitis.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:52

    Brain infection yeah?

    Adam Wolfers 2:53

    Yeah. So it’s like, basically the fluid in your spine, like your spinal fluid, which goes up into your brain. And that basically is like, it was, at the time, I didn’t know what it was, but it was, it came down to having meningitis.

    Adam Wolfers 3:10

    And basically the doctors, I did all these tests, and they, you know, did a COVID test. And so it’s like, it took me about 10 days for them to actually diagnose me with a meningitis. And so I had like, severe headaches, basically, like sensitivity to light.

    Adam Wolfers had meningitis


    Adam Wolfers 3:31
    And so I basically, at the time, you know, it’s hard to explain, but I literally couldn’t get out of bed for two weeks. And I went to like, three different types of hospitals. And they basically, they were like, Oh, you’re overworked and just go away and just gave me a Panadol.

    Adam Wolfers 3:54

    And then basically, after about 10 days, I went to my local GP, and then he was like, Ah, I think you have meningitis. So he did all the tests. That was my GP. And he did all the tests, and he basically sent me to the hospital.

    Adam Wolfers 4:14

    And, you know, I went to the hospital, they do all these tests on me. And, you know, I was like, I think you need to do like a thing called a spinal tap. It’s like a lumbar puncture. It’s not very pretty.

    Bill Gasiamis 4:27

    I’ve heard one. Yeah, cerebrospinal fluid test, they test the spinal fluid to see what’s in it. For me, they were checking for blood, but for you, they were checking for the virus or something else.

    Adam Wolfers 4:40

    Yeah. And so they did that test. And then basically, they kept me in the hospital for a day because they do all these tests and scans on it. He can’t tell what it is and for another 24 hours, so after 24 hours, they were like you have meningitis.

    Adam Wolfers 4:59

    I’m like Ah, okay, that sort of makes a bit of sense. And they were kind of like, wondering where I got it from. But, you know, at the time was kind of like, oh, you know, it’s just another virus, I’ll get over it. And like, I didn’t think anything of it, because I had no idea about what was going to happen next.

    Adam Wolfers 5:21

    And so basically, I took, you know, two, three weeks off work, just relaxed at home. And basically, when I got home from the hospital, I literally got COVID, like, two days after coming out of hospital.

    Adam Wolfers 5:40

    And I think that’s sort of the combination of the two, like COVID, and COVID was nothing compared to meningitis. And that, you know, I was basically I had COVID and I took three weeks off work. And then I slowly went back to work. And, three months later, I had the stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 6:15

    So the meningitis is a virus that says he a viral meningitis, when the meningitis is caused by a virus, the most common type of meningitis. Most people get better on their own without treatment.

    Bill Gasiamis 6:34

    So is that the idea of sending you home? And just helping you get over it? And so it’s just affecting your brain, it’s affecting how you feel? You’re not able to do much, but it generally goes away.

    Adam Wolfers 6:47

    Yeah.

    Bill Gasiamis 6:49

    And are they treating it with medication anything like that?

    Adam Wolfers 6:52

    No, not at that time, they were just kind of like, ah, you know, go home, take a Panadol if it gets worse, but you know, I didn’t need that at the time.

    Bill Gasiamis 7:03

    Okay. So meningitis, you can get by breathing in viral particles that have been sneezed or coughed into the air by another infected person. It doesn’t sound like it’s extremely infectious because you don’t hear too many cases of viral meningitis.

    Bill Gasiamis 7:20

    But it’s spread the same way that a cold or a flu or COVID is spread. And you happen to pick that up, and then you happen to be at the wrong place at the right time again, and you picked up COVID. So the, how long did COVID put you out of action for?

    Adam Wolfers 7:37

    About a week I think the COVID was nothing compared to meningitis. But on top of that, I’m, autoimmune as well.

    Bill Gasiamis 7:50

    And what autoimmune condition, have you got?

    Adam Wolfers 7:51

    I have a sort of colitis, it’s like a Crohn’s disease, so yeah, I was on lots of nasty medications. So I think that’s kind of the combination of everything. Me working too hard, you know, getting like that meningitis, COVID. And then basically, on top of that, I’ve been cycling very hard, like too much.

    Bill Gasiamis 8:21

    You’re putting a massive load on your body. Basically, it’s dealing with colitis, ulcerative colitis, it’s dealing with recovery from meningitis, it’s dealing with recovery from stroke, from a COVID.

    Bill Gasiamis 8:41

    And you’re just going full on hammer and tongs. Do you always remember being that busy in your life? Was there ever a moment in your life where you’ve been able to do little or nothing and feel like you’re actually contributing to your health and well being?

    Adam Wolfers 9:02

    No.

    Bill Gasiamis 9:02

    Just on the go?

    Adam Wolfers 9:05

    Yeah, that’s it. Because, like, that’s my personality and like, always, trying to strive for the best thing or like always putting 110% in everything I do. And I think that’s sort of the, the, you know, it’s not the cause, but it’s a contributing factor to the whole health situation.

    Bill Gasiamis 9:32

    Yeah. Are you a perfectionist? Is it does it come from something like that?

    Adam Wolfers 9:37

    Yeah, I’m a very creative perfectionist. So in my work, I was kind of like sort of high up in my field, not high up, but like stress is pretty high up. But you know, I can’t really work out what had happened.

    Bill Gasiamis 10:04

    And at that time in your career, have you got people reporting to you as well? You’re not just working solo?

    The ups and downs of striving for perfection

    Adam Wolfers 10:11

    Yeah. I’ve always worked in like fine dining restaurants my whole life and when he is, like 20 odd years as a chef, and I’ve always sort of tried to over exceed in what I’m doing.

    Bill Gasiamis 10:31

    And there’s an upside to that as far as career is concerned, people recognize your ethic, your talent, and the way you go about work. It probably does help with your career right?

    Adam Wolfers 10:41

    Yeah that’s it.

    Bill Gasiamis 10:43

    Does it interfere with other parts of your life, other than your health and well being? Being always that prepared to go the extra mile at work?

    Adam Wolfers 10:52

    Yeah, I think, because I have two very young kids. At the time, while I was immersed in my career, my career was always, you know, the number one. And so number one was my career, number two was, you know, my family.

    Adam Wolfers 11:11

    And so now I’m kind of like, once it’s all slowed down, I’m like, Oh, wow, the world is basically around me and going longer out everything that that it does. And so it’s been really nice.

    Adam Wolfers 11:29

    It’s been a one year anniversary today from accident. But I think I’ve, you know, I’m still learning to, like, accept what has happened. It’s gonna take a while. But I think that’s the biggest thing is acceptance, that everyone’s been saying.

    Adam Wolfers 11:54

    But I think, you know, it’s been really nice, because at the moment, I’m basically not working. I’m in across paths at the moment. And, you know, it’s been really nice to hang out with the family. So just, you know, seeing the kids go to school, cooking at home, all the little things that I never had done before, or got the opportunity to do before I now can enjoy it.

    What is Cerebral Vasculitis

    Bill Gasiamis 12:24

    So then all in all that time, so you had meningitis, you had COVID. And then you had a stroke. Just after that three months later. So what kind of stroke was it?

    Adam Wolfers 12:39

    It was like inflammation in the left side, because it wasn’t a hemorrhage, it was a blockage. And the doctors at the time, they were kind of like, they didn’t know the exact cause of the stroke.

    Adam Wolfers 13:01

    Because they couldn’t read my brain scan because they were like, Oh, this is such a weird brain scan. Because they couldn’t give me an exact cause.

    Bill Gasiamis 13:17

    So they called it cerebral vasculitis. And it presents as a stroke. So something happens to the blood vessels and then as a result of that, it stops the blood vessel for being able to send blood through it, perhaps narrows in size, and then as a result of that causes a stroke by a blockage that’s not a blood clot, right?

    Adam Wolfers 13:43

    I don’t know if I have, like they sort of said it was vasculitis. But, I have one of my luckily, you know, the guys I ride with they’re kind of like, in the medical field. And one of the guys is, I wrote this down he’s like a brain cancer specialist.

    Adam Wolfers 14:09

    So he basically, he can look at a scan and be like, Oh, I know that like there’s inflammation there and so I basically saw my neurologist and he was like, Oh, I can’t tell you exactly whether you can have another stroke or not, and I was just kind of wanted answers as we all do.

    Adam Wolfers 14:29

    And I got my friend in my cycling group I’ve just written this down here he’s basically a neuro anyway, in the neuro field, and he basically said, he said to me like, I don’t think the neurologist can read your scan properly, because it’s really difficult for a public hospital intern to read that sort of scan.

    Bill Gasiamis 15:21

    Okay, so I understand. So basically where you’re at is you’re in a little bit of a sort of zone where you’re not exactly certain what’s happened, how it’s happened, and whether it’s possible for it to happen again.

    Bill Gasiamis 15:38

    Seems to be like a inconclusive stage of the diagnosis, and they’re not really sure what caused it. So you’re still in that process, though of being in touch with doctors regularly and seeing people regularly about this.?

    Bill Gasiamis 15:54

    Ah, no, they just discharged me from the hospital. They’re kind of like you’re on your own now.

    Bill Gasiamis 15:56

    How does that feel?

    Adam Wolfers 16:07

    I mean, it’s okay. I was sort of, you know, you gotta get on with your life. But at the same time, I kinda like always at the back of my head, I’m like, am I gonna have another stroke? That’s the scariest thing. So it’s, it’s pretty scary.

    Bill Gasiamis 16:29

    What I would encourage you to do, not that you come along to this podcast specifically to get advice from me. But what I would encourage you to do is find another neurologist and get to the bottom of this, use your friend your cycling mate.

    Bill Gasiamis 16:45

    To get you into or whether it’s he or somebody else to get you into the office of somebody that’s going to be able to take you through the whole thing and give you some sort of a path forward. So you know, what’s going to happen, and how they’re going to monitor your condition. Is there somebody monitoring your condition in any way?

    Adam Wolfers 17:06

    So I have a well rounded GP, that she sort of looks at the whole gut biome, and she’s keeping an eye on all my bloods and I haven’t really got anyone for the stroke side of things.

    Bill Gasiamis 17:26

    Definitely do that men. And it sounds like, in order, are you writing things down because you’re trying to remember them? And memory is a bit of an issue? Is that why you’ve had things written down?

    Adam Wolfers 17:37

    Yeah.

    Bill Gasiamis 17:38

    So have you spoken to anyone about your deficits and the things that you’re experienced as a result of the stroke? That has made you feel a little differently than you were before?

    Adam Wolfers 17:50

    Yeah, I can kind of tell that it’s a little bit of a delay. They diagnosed me with like, mild aphasia. And I’ve always got like that, I sort of feel that delay, I can’t like, straightaway answer the questions really quickly.

    Adam Wolfers 18:11

    I have to think about it. And then it’s sort of on-the-spot thinking, That’s the hardest thing for me. And that’s, you know, it’s gotten better. But it’s, you know, it’s one of those things, it’s going to take time.

    Bill Gasiamis 18:23

    Yeah, it will. And also, rehab Adam, have you had any one take you through speech therapy, or trying to determine where your deficits are, and how to improve them?

    Adam Wolfers 18:40

    Yeah, so I had intensive rehab for the first three months. And so once that was done, I just sort of gotten back to work and just chatting to people that sort of my way of recovery.

    Getting back to work too soon


    Bill Gasiamis 18:58
    Yeah. And how much work have you got back to because if you were a chef, I imagine you’re doing crazy hours. So what’s it like now when you’re back at work, how many hours you’re doing?

    Adam Wolfers 19:10

    So at the time was kind of like I needed to get back to work straightaway. And, you know, I think I went back too soon, looking back on it. But I really want to get back into the industry, but I feel like in restaurants that’s not really where I can thrive.

    Adam Wolfers 19:41

    I’m sort of looking at like consultancy, and, you know, basically writing menus for other restaurants and you know, I’m just sort of hanging in there. Finding ways to make money.

    Bill Gasiamis 20:01

    Has it been one of the hardest things being unable to work.

    Adam Wolfers 20:09

    Yeah.

    Bill Gasiamis 20:11

    But you’re at home with the kids and your wife. And you’ve got a little bit more time to do that. Is that special? How does that feel? Being able to actually spend some time with the young kids and your wife?

    Adam Wolfers 20:23

    Yeah, it’s been great. It’s been amazing. But I’m kind of like, at a point in my life where I’m like, in a crossroads, so it’s kind of like stroke recovery, midlife crisis at the same time.

    Bill Gasiamis 20:39

    Yeah, stroke tends to do that to you man, how old are you?

    Adam Wolfers 20:43

    I’m 39.

    Bill Gasiamis 20:45

    That’s a perfect time for a midlife crisis. Nevermind and 20 years of solid work in an industry. I get it how you feel like the whole industry, the whole thing you’ve done is like a really big part of your identity.

    Intro 21:01

    If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. Like, how long will it take to recover? Will I actually recover? What things should I avoid in case I make matters worse.

    Intro 21:19

    Doctors will explain things. But obviously, you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask. If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you.

    Intro 21:42

    It’s called seven questions to ask your doctor about your stroke. These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition. And they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery. Head to the website now, recoveryafterstroke.com and download the guide. It’s free.

    The world doesn’t stop when you have a stroke

    Bill Gasiamis 22:05

    Are you having a bit of a identity crisis where you don’t know exactly where you fit into the world at the moment?

    Adam Wolfers 22:11

    Yeah. Because everyone just kind of gets on with their own lives. I’ve noticed, I guess it’s as I sort of slow down and do nothing. I’m kind of like, ah, everyone’s just getting on with their lives. And it’s sort of like, yeah, it’s a bit of a funny one. Not fun, but pretty scary.

    Bill Gasiamis 22:34

    Yeah, everyone gets on with their lives, because life doesn’t stop around you after a stroke happens. That’s the weird thing. Like I went through it for three years before I had brain surgery, and then was still on the mend for another one or two years after that properly.

    Bill Gasiamis 22:47

    And my whole situation started in 2012. And then I didn’t get back to work until 2019. Now, I was working, but not in an industry that I wanted to work in not doing the kind of work I wanted to do, I was doing just the basic job in an office so that I could actually have a job to go to.

    Bill Gasiamis 22:54

    And I wasn’t very good at it. But I worked with a mate of mine who was my general manager who really turned a blind eye and protected me for about three years. Even though I was participating at work, and I was trying to do my best I wasn’t up to the task at all.

    Bill Gasiamis 23:29

    So yeah, there’s a massive identity crisis when I felt like I was in a bit of a limbo and trying to work out where to from here and try to find things to occupy my time with. And what I found was doing things that I enjoyed that were hobbies, fill the gap a little bit, because it was able to bring me a bit of joy.

    Bill Gasiamis 23:53

    And then from there, as I did that, it kind of filled my filled my bucket a little bit, and then kind of made everything else that was happening around me. Not so bad, even though it was tough time. But my wife had to go back to work full time, go back to work as per normal because she had the bringing the majority of the money at that time.

    Bill Gasiamis 24:13

    My kids went back to their life as per normal because they were teenagers. So they didn’t really give a shit about anybody. Ever Fair enough. And then everyone else goes back to their normal life because normal life continues. The bills need to be paid, you know, work deadlines, or school or that kind of stuff. It all has to happen.

    Bill Gasiamis 24:34

    So they do that. And they do that not knowing what you’re going through because they can’t really understand what’s happening on the inside of you. After a stroke like they’ve they can’t actually get it because they’ve never been there.

    Bill Gasiamis 24:48

    You never want them to get it. And then you’re the person who’s stuck there and you’re you have to take responsibility while you’re recovering from stroke and all the other stuff you’ve been through. Gotta retake take responsibility for redirecting your life in a way that’s going to move you forward, that’s going to make you feel good about it.

    Bill Gasiamis 25:10

    And this type of resting is really about actually resting and getting better and recovering. Because stroke recovery doesn’t take three months, sometimes it doesn’t take six months, sometimes it doesn’t take six years, sometimes it takes longer. And I feel like I’m still recovering. Even though I’m back to, quote unquote, normal life.

    Bill Gasiamis 25:35

    I still feel like I’m recovering every day. Nothing’s really it’s never out of my mind. And, at the beginning, it was maybe in my mind in a way that was stressful and that, but now it’s in my mind of like, I’ve got to take care of myself more than anything else. And I’ve got to pay attention to my body. And if it tells me to rest and sleep, I gotta go and rest and sleep.

    Bill Gasiamis 26:01

    And if it’s telling me I’ve taken on too much this week, I’ve got to take on less next week. And remember the lesson and try not to put myself in a situation where things aren’t. All right, where I put myself back in the state, I was in before stroke, you know, that state where you’re doing too much, and you’re crazy.

    Bill Gasiamis 26:22

    And lots of hours and you’re over delivering for everybody except yourself. That’s, very normal, what you’re going through, although it sounds like it’s uncomfortable for you.

    Adam Wolfers 26:40

    Just gotta get used to it.

    Bill Gasiamis 26:47

    So what’s the hardest thing for you to go through to experience in this time? Is it just is it actually the stroke? Or is it the shift in your identity? How do you kind of define what the hardest part is for you?

    Adam Wolfers 27:06

    I think it’s at the point where, at the moment, I’m not working some kind of finding ways to make because my wife, she doesn’t really want to work full time, which is the hardest thing. And at the time, I was like, relying on my pay is the full income for the family.

    Adam Wolfers 27:35

    And, you know, it’s just, that’s the scariest thing is like, what am I going to do? I’m just kind of just doing little gig after gig just to tie it over. We’re not looking to save money, I’m not too sure if it’s gonna get better. That’s the whole uncertainty.

    Bill Gasiamis 28:07

    Yeah. It does. And it probably will. But what you’re talking about kind of just breaking even at the moment. Yeah, yeah. Which is something that we did for a long time as well. Yeah. We had to break even for about, you know, five, six years. And my wife was working my main breadwinner, but again, we’re only working three days a week.

    Bill Gasiamis 28:36

    And I was trying to squeeze in some work here or there, whatever I could do to just cover my my outgoings, but it was really hard. And that’s why I went and got just a really crappy full time office job where I didn’t really care about it, but I filled the role and made some money and felt like I had somewhere to go every day.

    Bill Gasiamis 28:58

    But, at the beginning, for about a year and a half, I had a lot of time to myself a lot of downtime. Where there wasn’t much to do anywhere other than doctor’s appointments. Are you okay with being with yourself? I was quite okay, being at home alone with my own self, but are you alright? Hanging out with yourself?

    Adam Wolfers 29:22

    Yeah, I can’t get like I’m a bit more of a creative mind. So I always look for the next best thing. I can’t like sit still. That’s my personality. So that’s been really hard for me because I’ve you know, like I can rest but at the same time, I can’t rest because my mind is ticking over what I’m going to do next.

    Bill Gasiamis 29:51

    And does that mean you start a lot of things but don’t see them through or just jump on to the next shining thing that comes along? Or do you normally start a project and see it through and get it to the end and then start another?

    Adam Wolfers 30:07

    Yeah, because all the places I’ve worked I’ve worked for like five years, five years, five years, five years. Six months here, six months there like, yeah, it’s just, you know, what it’s like, I just can’t really explain what’s going on in my head.

    Adam Wolfers being on a cooking show with Adam Liaw


    Bill Gasiamis 30:30
    But you managed to get on TV, and do this cooking show with Adam Liaw. So how does that come about?

    Adam Wolfers 30:41

    So basically, that happened about five months after my accident. So at that time, they contacted me via the restaurant, they were like, Ah, you want to come on the Adam Liaw show? And I was like, oh, yeah, okay, I can do that. And at the time, I kind of like, you need to do X amount of recipes, and you know, for a normal person, it was very stressful.

    Adam Wolfers 31:13

    But for stroke, recently, stroke patient, it was like, so, like, hectic for me, like, all the lights and the cameras in your face. And they basically were like, Okay, this take hear you, like, you need to do this, this, this, this and my memory, at the time I couldn’t even remember, you know, having my phone next to me, for the five seconds before.

    Adam Wolfers 31:41

    And I was like, oh, and I was just getting really flustered. And they kind of were like, they were really nice. But you know, they didn’t understand what’s going on. Yeah, but you know, it’s, it’s, it’s pretty hectic, that kind of thing. Because they’re, you know, you have like, you need to write out your recipes, you have other recipes ready, and they have all the food laid out for you.

    Adam Wolfers 32:11

    And then I sort of said to them you need to have you know, this food all prepped for me. So I can basically plate it up and send it like plate it up for the cameras like it was so stressful. I can’t even explain how hectic it was.

    Bill Gasiamis 32:35

    So how long was the filming for?

    Adam Wolfers 32:38

    Filming was like, eight hours.

    Bill Gasiamis 32:42

    And it was like a 30 minute episode, right?

    Adam Wolfers 32:45

    30 minute episode. So there were three episodes in the day. So they did they have two more episodes after that ones they had like a chili garlic eggplant and a 15 minute meal. So there’s another two episodes to come on their TV. So I did three, four episodes in one day, which took from you know, five in the morning through till 5pm that day.

    Bill Gasiamis 33:16

    And of course, that’s not normal for a normal human being that’s hard to do for anybody. Right. And when you’ve had a stroke, it’s like, even harder.

    Adam Wolfers 33:24

    Yeah, that’s it. Because they were like, Oh, we have a quiet room you can go in and they’re quiet room was like really bright lights. And like, it’s not quiet at all. It was like the complete opposite of quiet. And I like literally had to take my pair of sunnies and my, those like air pods and put them in and I was like, you know, putting on easy listening music, and I just was like, you know, I had a break for about half an hour. And I was just like, okay, I’m good to go. And then it was like, it’s yeah, it was so hard.

    Bill Gasiamis 34:05

    Did they know that you had a stroke?

    Adam Wolfers 34:07

    Yeah.

    Bill Gasiamis 34:08

    Okay, so they knew that. But you don’t look like somebody who had a stroke. Technically, right. You look normal. Right. So that would have been hard for them to comprehend. And kind of work out like this guy looks fine.

    Bill Gasiamis 34:26

    I don’t know what he’s talking about, you know, he just seems really difficult to work with because he wants all this stuff that other people don’t want. And that would have been difficult in a 12 hour day for them. They would have been hard to sort of deal with somebody who’s different in any way.

    Adam Wolfers 34:41

    Yeah. That’s it.

    Bill Gasiamis 34:45

    And then you get through that and how were you the next day? How do you feel after you’ve done that? Are you wiped out?

    Adam Wolfers 34:54

    I live in Brisbane. So from Brisbane, you have to fly down to Sydney. That alone I needed like two days to recover from a flight. Say you fly down. So that was my first flight. Since that accident I was like, oh my god, this is so intense like, it’s intense for anyone but you know, you get it.

    Adam Wolfers 35:23

    And basically, I went down on my own, on the plane on my own. And I got like I got picked up from because my parents live in Sydney. So they picked me up from the airport and just, you know, took me to the hotel room. And I just stayed in the hotel room for about, you know, I stayed in there for that whole a whole day. And then the next day, I was there filming.

    Adam Wolfers 35:54

    So I literally flew down on Friday, on Thursday, Friday, Thursday morning, got there Thursday, after an hour, Thursday 10 o’clock, and then basically went to the hotel room stayed in the hotel room and just slept for eight hours. And then I basically wrote down all the all my answers, because I asked them, you know what questions you’re going to ask I’ll practice that all.

    Adam Wolfers 36:27

    And so I was reading all the lines before I’m going on, I’m like, oh, man, this is so hard. And yeah, so, you know, I just basically memorize all the lines. And then when I got to the filming of it. They were kinda like they changed the way they asked the questions. And so like, he saw what it was like sitting on a stool, talking to Adam Liaw and then another who’s like, a personality.

    Adam Wolfers 37:03

    And they all sat there, like it was really awkward, was kinda like, sitting up straight like this. And I was really concentrating on it was daunting on the fact of them asking me a question. And I was like, okay, he’s gonna ask me this question.

    Adam Wolfers 37:23

    Okay, and then I’ll memorize it, and then just change the way I asked the question slightly, and then I was just frozen. I was like, Oh, my God. Okay. Just say, I just say, Where am I? Okay, just say that word. And then, you know, it was so hard.

    Bill Gasiamis 37:43

    So did you watch the episodes back? Did you have a look and see? You didn’t. That’s interesting, because I watched the episode contacted you straightaway after I saw it. And, of course, the person who told me to watch the episode told me that you’d had a stroke your stroke survivor.

    Bill Gasiamis 38:08

    And of course, then I’m picking up all of the challenges that you’re going through, and I can tell that you’re going through a lot of challenges trying to get the words out. And you mentioned a bit earlier about the Aphasia, the little bit of aphasia that you have like getting started in answering your question.

    Bill Gasiamis 38:26

    And I think they did a really terrible job in presenting you in the editing, presenting you as good as possible. Not that they should have edited that. I’m not saying that at all. I’m just joking. But I could tell that you’re definitely still in the phase of stroke, where your recovery is still coming along.

    Adam Wolfers pushing through the challenges

    Bill Gasiamis 38:47

    And you’ve got a little bit of recovery to do. Are you happy that you went along? And did that anyway, and sort of pushed through all those challenges? Or do you feel like it would have been better to just sit it out?

    Adam Wolfers 39:02

    I think at the time, I was like, Oh, this opportunities are gonna come later. That was my whole thought process in my head. And, you know, I don’t regret doing it. But I think at the time I went, I feel like if I left it another six months, it would make it a lot easier for me. Yeah, I think you know, you can say you should have waited, either like or if you waited, the opportunity may not have been there. That’s, the biggest thing.

    Bill Gasiamis 39:44

    Okay. I tend to agree with you just go for it and do whatever you can to get through it. I remember, early on in my stroke recovery, I got approached by the Stroke Foundation to do some TV as well. Some media, they came to our house and they filmed for about 12 have hours.

    Bill Gasiamis 40:01

    And there was about 50 people in my house I have a little house and they were everywhere. And we were doing some ads for Bupa, the insurer. And, the Stroke Foundation, they were working together and it was chaos, absolutely chaos.

    Bill Gasiamis 40:19

    And I remember being in my own house and not eating, and not drinking anything, just getting sucked into the whole production and waiting. Like I had food in my fridge and everything but waiting for catering to bring us the food and all that type of thing. It was so weird.

    Bill Gasiamis 40:41

    And we managed to get it done and got through it. And it was hard. But it was really rewarding. I felt really good about having been involved in like you I thought this opportunity won’t come again. And it was just what the hell just go for it and do it. And then do the recovery later and deal with it. Was it helpful having your mum and dad in Sydney with you? Did you catch up with them after the show again? Or did you just fly straight home?

    Adam Wolfers 41:11

    No. So I caught up with mom and dad while I was down there. It was pretty interesting.

    Bill Gasiamis 41:24

    It’s an interesting journey. Was that the first time you had the opportunity to be on TV?

    Adam Wolfers 41:29

    Yeah.

    Bill Gasiamis 41:29

    I get Yeah, you got to do it. And you got to push through it. And even though it’s hard, and you suffer while you’re there, if you can get through it, like you said, with shades, and you know, with ear pods, just trying to keep the noises out and all that and somehow push through for a day or so.

    Bill Gasiamis 41:49

    And it’s not going to impact you your health in a negative way. I think there’s a lot of positives that come out of it. So it’s kind of like worth paying that price a little bit to get this experience. Yeah. Yeah, sure. So I think I know that I think I’ve got a new career for you. If, if you opt for a career advice, YouTube channel, man where you’re cooking meals at home.

    Bill Gasiamis 42:17

    Just do that teach people how to cook. But bacon and eggs or whatever they need to eat to get through, you know, stroke recovery, that’s easy to make, you know, you can be the stroke recovery chef guy. How’s that for a channel name?

    Adam Wolfers 42:37

    Yeah that’s a good channel.

    Bill Gasiamis 42:37

    I say that because there’s a lot of cool creative people on Instagram. One of them is a lady who I follow who has a page called Georgia bakes for brains. And she’s had a stroke. She’s somebody who had a craniotomy, so part of a skull removed. And then I imagined how to put back she lives in Melbourne, and her insta is, Georgia Bakes for Brains.

    Bill Gasiamis 43:07

    And then she’s just got all of the creations that she’s ever put together. And she must make cakes for people I imagine she makes cakes for birthdays, that type of thing. She’s super creative, and she just takes you on a very quick little journey of decorating a cake.

    Bill Gasiamis 43:31

    And I think a lot of people that can tend to be kind of therapeutic sort of being somebody who has got the skills that you’ve got. That might be therapeutic and help you sort of feel like your identity is still alive and well.

    Adam Wolfers 43:56

    Yeah, that’s a great idea. I just yeah, I’m kind of at the moment. I’m kind of I don’t know what to do.

    Bill Gasiamis 44:04

    Yeah. I hear you man, I know. I’m not expecting you to be a YouTube chef tomorrow. Well, I thought I’d just chuck it out there. Maybe it sits if it doesn’t, doesn’t it. It’s alright. So what’s it like dealing with the kids, man? Are they little?

    Adam Wolfers 44:20

    Yeah, so I have a three year old and a six year old. So that was pretty tough. Because, you know, the, for the first six months, I was like, I didn’t quite understand the whole over sensory overload sort of thing. And so they’re screaming and, you know, carrying out they don’t, you know, the little they don’t understand that, but daddy looks normal.

    Adam Wolfers 44:50

    And at the time, you know, I wanted to be with them. But, like, I couldn’t because I literally did noise and screaming and the carrying on I couldn’t handle it. Yeah. Yeah, I got I got better at it. I got those air pods and just put on nice calming music in the morning. But my son is on and cooked breakfast and that that got through it. Wow. Yeah, so that was a way of getting through it. But you know it was it was. It’s really good now. Yeah. it’s much better now.

    Bill Gasiamis 45:28

    Yeah. Kids don’t really care what’s happening to you. They’re just gonna be themselves, right.

    Adam Wolfers 45:33

    Yeah, that’s it.

    Bill Gasiamis 45:34

    And it’s kind of good. But at the same time, it’s kind of really hard. And little kids require a lot of energy. And they just expect you to turn up and be there for them and do everything you’ve always done. They don’t really mind. So cooking in the morning with Sunnies and earpods on yeah?

    Adam Wolfers 45:55

    Yeah.

    Bill Gasiamis 45:56

    Is the morning, the hardest part of the day for you? And you live in sunny Queensland. So it’s bright all the time. Is it the hardest part of the day for you? Or is the other parts of the day where it feels a bit harder.

    The hardest part of the day for Adam Wolfers

    Adam Wolfers 46:10

    I think the morning is probably the easiest part of the day. Because it’s hard to explain that like in Queensland, everyone’s up at 5am. And so everyone’s doing things from 5am in the morning. And so that’s sort of, that’s sort of easier for me, because I have two young kids, and they’re up at five o’clock already. So that’s been my morning thing. And, but I find like, as I get to about two or three o’clock in the afternoon, I then start to get really lethargic and just need to lie down for half an hour, and then I’m going to go.

    Bill Gasiamis 46:51

    Recharge, two or three in the afternoon. So how does the lethargy come about? Do you notice that you’re talking suffers? Do you notice that other things sort of get a little bit strokey? Do you have like, the symptoms get worse?

    Adam Wolfers 47:09

    like because I like my right side got affected. And so I find that, like when I my way, my right side of my body like basically becomes a lot weaker, and I can’t use it as well. And that’s sort of the first point of part of my body that is, um, you know, noticeable.

    Bill Gasiamis 47:33

    Yeah. And it’s telling you, you’re tired. And you need a rest. Yeah. Bit of a cat nap. And then you’re up. Yeah. And you’re sleeping. All right, you’re getting through the night with a decent amount of sleep waking up feeling like you’ve had a good amount of sleep.

    Adam Wolfers 47:50

    Yeah, I don’t know. Yeah. So for a while, I was like, literally teaching myself how to sleep. And then. So that was, that was the hardest thing is like, teaching yourself how to sleep again. And that was, you know, it was so easy for me to sleep. Because I basically did a lot during the day, go to bed and wake up the next day, and so I had to reteach myself how to sleep. So, you know, I’m using meditation and, you know, using those air pods just before I go to sleep, deep breathing, I just had to reteach myself how to do all that stuff.

    Bill Gasiamis 48:33

    What sort of hours were you keeping? As a chef? Were you up at the crack of dawn? Or were you going home really late at night? Or both?

    Adam Wolfers 48:39

    So I was so to mention before I was a cyclist, so I was up at about 4am And then I cycled you know, to three hours in the morning, then I’d come home, make breakfast for the kids. And then I just you know, relax for about an hour go into work at 10 o’clock. And so 10 o’clock till midnight. Well, and then I’d only cycle once every two days. But I think that was an ongoing thing to basically.

    Bill Gasiamis 49:18

    So up at four. And then you finish at midnight. And then you go home. How long does it take you to get home and then fall asleep? What you’re gonna see back in 15 minutes and then you’re having a shower winding down. And you’re getting three hours a night of sleep some nights sometimes. It’s still feeling 100% good to go the next morning.

    Adam Wolfers 49:49

    That’s probably too much.

    Bill Gasiamis 49:52

    That’s too much for anybody, of course. But what’s interesting is that you got to do it for that long for such a long time was that something that you were doing for many, many years.

    Adam Wolfers 50:02

    I was doing that for about three years.

    Bill Gasiamis 50:09

    Did you feel that it was good for you?

    Adam Wolfers 50:12

    Yeah. Amazing. That was my happy place my cycling it’s my outlet.

    Bill Gasiamis 50:21

    And you just somehow got taken away.

    Adam Wolfers 50:23

    That was like, I felt really lost.

    Bill Gasiamis 50:29

    Have you been able to cycle since? Yep. I can see you back on the bike. Yeah. So

    Adam Wolfers 50:34

    literally, six weeks at a hospital, I have like a one of those Wahoo trainers I was on the train are like six weeks out of hospital. I could only do like, you know, 10 minutes, and then I’ll do 20 minutes, and I’ll do 30 minutes. And I sort of, like incrementally do that over the course of you know, like, after about two weeks out of hospital. I was riding 40 Ks.

    Bill Gasiamis 51:07

    That’s pretty good man, you don’t muck around.

    Adam Wolfers 51:09

    Yeah, I mean, it’s kind of like, I want to get back to what I was before. But, you know, I’ve kind of realized that I can’t.

    Getting back on the bike after a stroke


    Bill Gasiamis 51:20
    You’ve let it go a little? Right. So now, how many kilometers are you doing on 40 kilometres is 26 mile for anyone wondering somewhere there. So how many kilometers are you doing now?

    Adam Wolfers 51:36

    So I’m doing I can only do 40k. So I can only do 40 kilometers at a time.

    Bill Gasiamis 51:42

    Only?

    Adam Wolfers 51:45

    But I can only do that once or twice a week now. Yeah, one to two times a week. But after a ride. Like I’m basically done for half the day.

    Bill Gasiamis 51:56

    Wiped out?

    Adam Wolfers 51:57

    Yeah, wiped out.

    Bill Gasiamis 51:58

    I remember that. Because I used to, I didn’t have those issues that you had about cycling, I don’t need to do 1000 kilometers a week. So I just used to ride just as a different way to get to a destination without walking or driving. Right? That was all and just really leisurely. I’ve even got a little speaker that I cable tie to the back of my seat underneath my seat.

    Bill Gasiamis 52:27

    And I just put the iTunes or Spotify on and I just blare out dance music as I’m riding along the bike path, right, it’s so cool. So that’s why I did it. And then when I couldn’t get back on the bike again, I was really devastated as well.

    Bill Gasiamis 52:45

    Because when I did get on the bike, my left side got tired, far quicker than my right side and I fatigue immediately. And then I couldn’t feel my arm and leg and my leg would fall off the pedal. And then putting my leg down my left leg down to balance, I wouldn’t feel my leg.

    Bill Gasiamis 53:00

    So I’d fall off the bike. It was just a nightmare. So I stopped riding. And then I found an electric bike. So battery operated, helps you with the pedaling that made a massive difference to how much fatigue my leg and my arm felt.

    Bill Gasiamis 53:16

    And I was able to ride for longer. So now I might do 10 kilometers or 20 kilometers in a ride. That could take hours, it’s not going to I don’t need I don’t need to do it fast. I just need to get it down. Right. So that was what was really cool about it.

    Bill Gasiamis 53:32

    And then I got to the point of once I had managed to find the electric bike and get on the I got to the point where that fatigue of I did a 20 Kilometer ride in the morning. And now I’m wiped out for the rest of the day that started to shrink that I got I was later then I wasn’t wiped out for the whole day, I was wiped out for three quarters of the day and then for half the day and then for a little bit of time and then for half an hour or an hour.

    Bill Gasiamis 54:01

    So right now if I go for a ride, then I just take a rest for an hour or two, and a really, really good after it. But that that’s what gets better. And I feel the more you exercise. It is really beneficial to you. So it’s definitely worth doing.

    Bill Gasiamis 54:17

    But over exercising is something that you’ve got to be careful about. And I’m glad that you’re at that stage where you’ve realized that I still enjoy my ride but only twice a week and then all I’ll rest. Are you still waking up at four in the morning to do that ride?

    Adam Wolfers 54:34

    Oh, no, no, like, I’ll go about 5am it’s just it’s hard to explain but like in Queensland you kind of go earlier because it gets really hot by about seven o’clock, right? by 7am and start like it gets like the humidity is very different up here.

    Adam Wolfers 54:56

    Although everyone is out and about all the cyclists around at five in the morning 5:30. I’m really grateful that I can ride my bike. That’s, that’s the most important thing. Yeah, I’m not doing it for a job. I’m doing it as a, like, enjoyment now.

    Bill Gasiamis 55:23

    Yeah. Have you so now it’s now it’s about enjoyment and supporting your recovery and it’s about healthy for healthy reasons. It’s probably taking you into the same quiet space, he’s still going into that same quiet space helping you out with your mental well being I imagine.

    Adam Wolfers 55:41

    Yeah, does definitely.

    Bill Gasiamis 55:44

    You’re the kind of guy to seek out help. When you’re going through a tough time or struggling before stroke. Were you the type of guy did you need guidance and support from other people were just able to push through

    Adam Wolfers 55:56

    knives? Is that a little push there? Yeah.

    Bill Gasiamis 56:00

    So changed a little bit now. Have you been able to?

    Adam Wolfers 56:03

    Um, I think it’s pretty much the same. Like but, you know? It’s It’s just different. It’s just like, I don’t, I don’t. Yeah. Kinda like, I feel that I’m different. But I don’t want to be different. That’s sort of where I’m at.

    Bill Gasiamis 56:33

    So part of us going let’s hold on to the old atom. Yeah. And the other part is going there’s definitely a new atom. And is it about transitioning and trying to embrace the new atom at some stage and trying to feel comfortable with that?

    Adam Wolfers 56:49

    Yeah.

    Bill Gasiamis 56:50

    Stroke tends to do that really rapidly. Aging does that a little bit slower, it gives you a little bit more time to go. Shoot, I noticed that ache ache in my back. So I’m gonna take it easy, or your toe hurts, or I’m not as fit as I used to be. You have a gradual kind of understanding of how you’re changing and how you need to adapt to go go through life.

    Bill Gasiamis 57:16

    But stroke just does it overnight. Big difference? Yeah. That’s the hardest part. For people to adjust to a lot of people can’t adjust to that change. That happens so rapidly, because they’re caught up in it three minutes ago, I was all these other things. I was a chef who worked 14 hours a day. I was a dad, I was a cyclist, I did all these things.

    Bill Gasiamis 57:43

    And now what overnight? I’m not all those things anymore. What? What am I what do I do? How do I get along? If anyone finds himself in that situation, then what I do is try encourage them to just be in that space. So in the space of your lifetime, you’ve gone through about 40 years of life.

    Bill Gasiamis 58:03

    And then in in the space of 40 years, this time, this one year, even if it’s two years of time where you’re not sure or certain about things, it’s not a long amount of time. While you’re in it, it feels long. The reality is it’s not long, it’s a very short amount of time, and it’s gonna go really fast. And you’ll get through it.

    Bill Gasiamis 58:28

    And it’s you’ve got to find a unique way that supports your thinking and supports the way you’d like to go about life to get through it in your own unique way. That’s that’s the challenging part. It’s like how do you adapt and change? It’s sometimes reaching out to other people can help you with that. Counseling coaching. Mentor, anyone who understand your condition and what you’ve been through, could sort of help that and make it make the transition a little easier, perhaps or perhaps not.

    Adam Wolfers 59:05

    No, I’m agreeing with you.

    Bill Gasiamis 59:09

    It doesn’t matter. How does talking for a long time impact you going through a conversation like this? Does that make you tired, fatigued?

    Adam Wolfers 59:21

    It gets me like I can talk for about you know, 30, 40 minutes and then I start to get really lethargic like I am right now.

    Bill Gasiamis 59:31

    Yeah I noticed. That’s why I asked.

    Adam Wolfers 59:37

    It’s gotten better because for the first you know, two, three months like or six months, seven months, I like literally had a conversation for 10 minutes and I’ll be like, I’m done. So it’s gotten much better. I couldn’t have done this like three months ago.

    Bill Gasiamis 59:55

    Yeah, you know what man? On that note though? I’m good. gonna let you get back to the rest of your day. I really appreciate you saying yes. And coming on to the podcast, when I reached out. I love what you’re doing as far as still trying to get through this and adjusting and finding new ways to do yourself. And if you ever decide to do the food YouTube channel, I’ll fly to Brisbane. And I can be your guest on your show, and you can show me how to prepare meal.

    Adam Wolfers 1:00:28

    Cool. All right. Thank you so much for having me on the show.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:32

    My pleasure, man. Thank you for being here. Thanks for joining us on today’s episode to learn more about my guests, including links to their social media and other pages. And to download a full transcript of the entire interview.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:45

    Please go to recoveryafterstroke.com/episodes. If you would like to try the course five foods to avoid after stroke, go to recoveryafterstroke.com/courses and get on board now. If you would like to support this podcast, the best way to do it is leave the show a five star review and a few words about what it means to you.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:07

    The more comments that we get, the more reviews that we get, the more popular the show will become. And that will make it possible for other people who are going through what you’re going through to find it. And that will hopefully make it better for them.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:21

    If you remember what it was like when you found the podcast and what a difference it made to you. Well, hopefully, what we’re going to do is make it possible for other people to find the podcast as well and have a better stroke recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:36

    Now if you’re a stroke survivor with a story to share about your experience, come and join me on the show that interviews are not scripted, you do not have to plan for them. All you need to do to qualify as being a stroke survivor, or care for someone who is a stroke survivor will be one of the fabulous people who work in the field that help stroke survivors.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:56

    Go to recoveryafterstroke.com/contact fill out the contact form and as soon as I receive your request. I’ll respond with more details on how you can choose a time that works for you and me to meet over zoom. Thanks again for being here and listening. As my voice goes croaky, I really appreciate you see you on the next episode.

    Intro 1:02:16

    Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast are the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed.

    Intro 1:02:34

    All content on this website at any linked blog, podcast or video material controlled this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis, the content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice.

    Intro 1:02:56

    The information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances or health objectives. Do not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose treat, cure or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or is a substitute for the advice of a health professional. Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional your doctor or your rehabilitation program based on our content.

    Intro 1:03:18

    If you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition, please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional if you are experiencing a health emergency or think you might be called triple zero in Australia or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance or go to the nearest hospital emergency department medical information changes constantly.

    Intro 1:03:38

    While we aim to provide current quality information and our content. We did not provide any guarantees and assume no legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, currency or completeness of the content. If you choose to rely on any information within our content, you do so solely at your own risk. We are careful with links we provide however third party links from our website are followed at your own risk and we are not responsible for any information you find there.

    The post Cerebral Vasculitis, Stroke & Identity Change – Adam Wolfers appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

    1 hr 5 min
  • Restoring Speech After Stroke – Brooke Lang

    Brooke Lang is “the real deal” when it comes to speech therapy. Join us for some tips that may help you recover your speech after stroke.

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    Highlights:

    00:55 Introduction – Brook Lang Speech Pathologist

    01:54 What got Brooke Lang into speech pathology
    06:10 What’s the idea behind intense rehabilitation?
    10:08 How soon should you begin the therapy?
    17:25 Stuck in a phonological loop
    23:08 The three-pronged approach to stroke recovery
    30:08 Education and involvement of family members
    45:09 The importance of finding a new identity
    58:43 The importance of asking yourself “should” vs “want”
    1:04:32 The importance of taking control of your recovery

    Transcript:

    Bill Gasiamis 00:00

    I always loved referring back to the physicist Stephen Hawking, you know, the guy couldn’t speak, talk, walk, couldn’t do anything. And he was still at the top of his game.

    Brooke Lang 00:12

    Yeah, exactly.

    Bill Gasiamis 00:15

    Everyone else learned how to be around him. They all adjusted themselves, they all stepped up, and they all grew. And they all found new ways to interact with somebody who most people would have written off. Right. And the only person who didn’t write himself off was him.

    Intro 00:42

    This is the recovery after stroke podcast, with Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after stroke.

    Introduction – Brook Lang Speech Pathologist


    Bill Gasiamis 00:55
    Hello, and welcome to episode 247 of the recovery after stroke podcast. My guest today is Brooke Lang, a speech language pathologist and the founder of Integrative Reconnective Aphasia Therapy.

    Bill Gasiamis 01:08

    She has been described by one of her patients as the real deal. And today, we hope to bring you a few things to consider as you go about recovering your speech after stroke. Brooke Lang, welcome to the podcast.

    Brooke Lang 01:22

    Thank you.

    Bill Gasiamis 01:23

    Thank you for being here. I reached out because one of my coaching clients told me that you are the real deal when it comes to supporting people with regards to recovery from aphasia.

    Brooke Lang 01:37

    I mean, I feel lucky to do what I do. It’s such a crazy thing. And it’s, you know, quite common.

    Becoming Brook Lang: Speech Pathologist

    Bill Gasiamis 01:54

    How did you get involved in aphasia help? How does somebody get motivated to work in that space? Usually, I’ve found that a lot of people who work in the space of supporting other stroke survivors or people who have gone through a rough time have got somebody that they know or history of someone that was struggling with something similar. What’s, what’s your path towards this type of work?

    Brooke Lang 02:23

    Actually, you know, I decided to be a speech pathologist. Because in high school, there was one of the students who has cerebral palsy. And I remember he was not able to communicate verbally at all.

    Brooke Lang 02:43

    But he had a device. And I just found it amazing that although you didn’t express themselves verbally, how much he was able to communicate using the device. And that’s kind of just what made me start looking into speech pathology.

    Brooke Lang 02:58

    It is such a broad field. We do so many different things from working with kids with articulation to working with tracheostomies etc, and then aphasia. I ended up doing my fellowship at the VA here in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

    Brooke Lang 03:20

    And we had a program where we served veterans who have aphasia, and we would see them intensively. So we would see them for a month. And we would see them for five hours of treatment a day.

    Brooke Lang 03:34

    And I think that’s really where I just fell in love with it. And discovered that it’s such a challenging area, there’s no black and white. Everything has to be so personalized and individualized. But it’s sort of what I enjoyed about it.

    Bill Gasiamis 03:55

    The vets would have come to have aphasia in a number of different ways. Is it stuff that’s related to what’s happened on the battlefield? Or is it stuff that’s related to regular life like stroke and those types?

    Brooke Lang 04:09

    A combination, so some had gunshot wounds, but at most were unrelated I would say and more likely as a result of a stroke to the left hemisphere that resulted in them having aphasia.

    Bill Gasiamis 04:26

    Yep. So when you get approached by somebody to help them with a speech issue, how do you determine what their issue is because you hear about aphasia, but there’s a lot of things that are stopping people from speaking. It’s not necessarily the ability to not make the words and say the words it could be something else. So what are some of the other things that cause communication issues?

    Brooke Lang 04:54

    Well, I mean, when you have aphasia, there’s you know, we think of it as a language disorder, so it’s not just somebody having trouble communicating verbally, they likely also have trouble processing language.

    Brooke Lang 05:12

    And as well as reading, understanding what they read reading aloud and writing, so all of that sort of language expression, and the processing piece can be impacted. And the thing with aphasia is, everybody’s different.

    Brooke Lang 05:27

    There is they say that when you’ve seen one person with aphasia, you’ve seen one person with aphasia, and it’s so true. Even if, you know, the area of damage is quite similar, they can still have completely different symptoms and characteristics.

    Brooke Lang 05:45

    So I mean, you really have to take each individual person, as an individual person, talk about what their challenges are, do the appropriate assessments, you know, we have certain things that we do to kind of dig into what we feel that underlying issue might be, and then do our best to target that impairment and that deficit.

    What’s the idea behind intense rehabilitation for Restoring Speech?


    Bill Gasiamis 06:10
    When I hear five hours of rehabilitation a day, intense rehabilitation a day, I’m tired, just listening to that. I imagine it’s really difficult, somebody with a stroke, who has aphasia as one of the deficits that they’ve acquired is also probably suffering from fatigue.

    Bill Gasiamis 06:32

    Do you work towards five hours? Or do you just start with five hours? What’s the idea behind doing such an amount of therapy, I remember trying to learn to walk again. We were doing five minutes at the beginning, and then 10 minutes and then 30 minutes.

    Bill Gasiamis 06:53

    And I was exhausted after every one of those efforts. So how does that intense amount of therapy help people overcome the deficit? And how does it support them to get their speech back?

    Brooke Lang 07:12

    Yeah, great question. So in that program, the individuals tend to be more in like the chronic phase. So they’re at least a year out from their stroke, not that they’re not still experiencing that neuro fatigue.

    Brooke Lang 07:30

    But they’ve sort of gotten past that initial time. And is it something that they work up towards? No, it’s what they sign up for. And, you know, we put them through a three hour assessment, and see how they kind of handle that.

    Brooke Lang 07:48

    And I mean, it’s amazing what people are willing to do, you know, to do their best to recover. I mean, I with my own practice, I do have intensive programs too where people sign up to do three hours a day, five days a week, and even doing it on the computer.

    Brooke Lang 08:07

    And, again, people surprise me time after time. It is such hard work. It has got to be exhausting, but they power through and, you know, people are willing to do what they can to get their communication back.

    Bill Gasiamis 08:22

    Is there something about doing a work to exhaustion, so I’m thinking about going into the gym, you always hear about let’s do that last set that last rep. You always hear about moving beyond what’s comfortable, and then going to exhaustion, and then stopping.

    Bill Gasiamis 08:43

    Does that benefit somebody? Because I would have thought that when you take somebody to exhaustion, especially in the fourth hour, and then the fifth the ability to retain information and to hold on to new learning severely declines? Or is that just not true?

    Brooke Lang 09:04

    Yeah, I don’t think it’s the same as comparing it to, you know, your gym, exercise workout, I think you’re right. And there’s still a lot of research, excuse me that they’re doing to try and figure out what is that comfort spot where it’s a good amount of intensive therapy.

    Brooke Lang 09:24

    Like they found that intensive therapy can be really valuable, but how much and for how long is really kind of the big question that they’re doing a lot of studies looking into and examining that but you know, I tell my patients, it’s just as important to rest as it is to work on their recovery and equally important so I encourage breaks and naps because I think that’s huge. And it’s what’s necessary in order for their brains to make the necessary changes.

    How soon should you begin the therapy?

    Bill Gasiamis 10:08

    When would you rather see somebody? Would you rather see them at the very early stages of their stroke recovery? Or is it okay to see them after some time has elapsed? I imagine that if it was me, I’d want to get to you immediately.

    Bill Gasiamis 10:22

    But some people don’t have the opportunity to. And then they may also feel like, it’s too much time has passed, and now maybe it’s too late for me to get my communication back.

    Brooke Lang 10:37

    I have a lot to say about that, actually. So I think it depends. Yes, typically, I think I’d like to see somebody right away, because what can happen. So in that first, and neurologists will tell their patients, you know, that first six months to a year is crucial.

    Brooke Lang 11:00

    And it is, but also, people need to know that after that first year, they can absolutely still make a lot of gains. So just because that one year mark is up, does not mean that that’s it. But a lot of times, if I see somebody earlier on, they might still be having medical challenges and not be as stable as they should be in order to fully benefit from the treatment.

    Brooke Lang 11:28

    Like if they’re having seizures, or again, if they’re, you know, still getting a lot of tests, and they’re extra tired. And again, that fatigue piece is another thing to take into consideration.

    Brooke Lang 11:40

    But sometimes when I see individuals later, which is sort of when I do end up seeing probably most of them, they’re usually at least six months out. If not, I get people who are eight years out and want to pursue treatment.

    Brooke Lang 11:58

    But sometimes they’ve developed some maladaptive behaviors over that time, that can be tough to break. But that need to be sort of broken before we can move forward and really, you know, work on the language recovery piece.

    Bill Gasiamis 12:17

    When I hear maladaptive behaviors, what I hear is that they might have beliefs, thoughts or ideas about what’s possible for them, and why they can’t communicate. And that’s getting in the way of the communication more than their deficit or more than the injury has caused.

    Bill Gasiamis 12:36

    So I tend to, it’s not the right word, but I tend to relate to it as negative Neuroplasticity where they’ve, instead of how to use Neuroplasticity for a positive purpose and getting a good outcome.

    Bill Gasiamis 12:49

    They’ve created neurological pathways. And they’ve applied Neuroplasticity in a negative way, perhaps they didn’t know that they were doing this in a negative way. And then as a result of that they’ve reinforced that inability to communicate. They believe it in every way. They think that it’s potentially them forever. And then that they’re getting in their own way of their ability to communicate.

    Brooke Lang 13:27

    Yeah, I think that’s definitely a piece of it. And I mean, I have had conversations with some of my patients, telling them that you are the one standing in your own way, at this point, you know, and until you get out of it, you’re not going to be able to move forward.

    Brooke Lang 13:44

    And of course, that’s easy for me to say I’m not the one going through it. And it is no easy road. It is no easy feat. And aphasia can really disrupt not just the lives of people with aphasia, but everybody around them and everything that it involves.

    Brooke Lang 14:03

    But I also think, I mean, I think you bring up a really good point about that, almost like the mental, emotional, negative Neuroplasticity end of things, but I think too, they develop just even, like maladaptive behaviors with their speech, like starting a sentence over and over, they almost sound like they’re stuttering, because they won’t finish or complete their thought.

    Brooke Lang 14:30

    And it’s their way of feeling like if I get that running start, maybe that word will come out, and they start their sentence, and they start their sentence, and they start their sentence over again until they can get that work where I when I work with them, I do not want them going backwards.

    Brooke Lang 14:50

    Just keep moving forward. And again, just some of that little stuff that can make a big difference early on. But again, if they’re they’ve been doing that for five years. It can be a bother to break that, you know?

    Bill Gasiamis 15:04

    I hear you. So I hope you don’t mind cussing because I’m just going to cuss in context of.

    Brooke Lang 15:09

    No I love cussing.

    Bill Gasiamis 15:12

    It’s not normally a cussing podcast in the context of this particular case. So one of my clients, he’s also one of your clients can only get the word f*** out. And that fascinates me now.

    Bill Gasiamis 15:29

    F***ing f***, and f***, and that’s kind of how he goes about expressing his level of frustration, depending on the tone, and the length of it. And the way that he says it, you can kind of get grasp a little bit about how he’s feeling about something.

    Bill Gasiamis 15:49

    I know this is going to be a difficult question for you to answer. How is it possible for one word, and I’m going to continue this by telling you in a moment, the next part of this story and why I’m asking it, how is it possible with one word to be stuck there? And that’s the only word okay, I know, you might not be able to answer that.

    Bill Gasiamis 16:09

    Also, my godfather passed away about two or three years ago. And he unfortunately had a tumor in his head and it was inoperable. And when it grew, and all his faculties went away, most of them went away.

    Bill Gasiamis 16:25

    The only word that he could communicate with was the same word. And he was, you know, is a Greek guy came from Greece in the 1980s to Australia had no language other than that one word, he was just throwing out to my godmother, his wife, f***, f***, and f***ing f***.

    Bill Gasiamis 16:48

    It was like, ridiculous that I’ve come across it twice now. And I don’t know, how to even begin that conversation with you. I don’t even know what to say. But I feel like you need to address it, because you’re the speech therapist.

    Brooke Lang 17:04

    I can address some of it. So and I have a third case, relating to that, that God bless her was a nun. And I kid you not that was the only it’s a heck of a thing, right? Like how awful and so there are other individuals.

    Stuck in a phonological loop

    Brooke Lang 17:25

    So that’s a more severe type of aphasia. Now there are what sort of happens, what we believe happens is, it’s almost like they get stuck in a phonological loop. And they can’t get out of it. And it takes a lot to start to get them out of it.

    Brooke Lang 17:47

    They can be sort of the toughest individuals to treat. But the other piece is, is that any word like swearing tends to be highly emotional. And a lot of times, sometimes the first thing ends up coming out, because the person is frustrated, they’re scared or angry, is sometimes a swear word. And so we’ll have people who come and say, My husband never swore before.

    Brooke Lang 18:14

    You know, we go to church every Sunday, and now he has a Trucker Mouth. And that can happen because again, it’s like, it’s almost like an automatic thing that comes out, they have no control over.

    Brooke Lang 18:29

    And I’ve had patients too and what’s interesting, like you said is their intonation for what they’re trying to express is accurate within that F word framework. Right? And so, I mean, I had a patient who all he could say was dooey. So it wasn’t a word. It was just a made up little two syllable chunk.

    Brooke Lang 18:55

    And he would have full conversation in his dooies, dooey dooey the dooey dooey dooey? And like, again, I knew if he was asking you a question, if he was excited about something all in his dooies.

    Brooke Lang 19:08

    And so it’s a, just a vicious cycle within that phonological loop. They can be broken of it. But it’s tough, because again, it’s like that loop has been reinforced over and over and again, depending how long they’ve gone like that.

    Bill Gasiamis 19:29

    So I’m a glass-half-full kind of guy. So when somebody says one word, I’m figuring okay, we can get two words. I’m certain of it. And then I’m not a speech pathologist. So I don’t know the process, but I just stick on the fact that one words possible two words possible. We’ll and then we’ll work on three.

    Bill Gasiamis 19:50

    So I figure that perhaps. And this is just me running with new hypotheses as you’re describing what you’re describing. If the word that comes out is an emotional response, I feel like then what we’re doing is perhaps bypassing the head and creating a heart response.

    Bill Gasiamis 20:17

    And it’s kind of recruiting the heart to get the communication going where the head has not been able to. And maybe what that sounds like to me is that, although that is a positive, because we’ve got one word, and we’ve got our way of expressing something, we’ve got some kind of expression.

    Bill Gasiamis 20:38

    Perhaps what we’re doing is, again, that could be one of those things that diverts away from rehabilitating the head loop the head path in communication from the mouth and the brain. Does that all resonate with you? Is there any thing there that kind of sticks out with you that you think, perhaps is plausible?

    Brooke Lang 21:03

    I think if it’s that emotionally driven word, you know, yeah, I do think that there has to be sort of something that shakes things up of it. And I mean, very much aphasia therapy has to involve some sort of emotional support.

    Brooke Lang 21:25

    Again, the more our mutual, individual that I haven’t really worked with, but sort of assessed, I mean, just the tension, you can see it, everything builds up. That is the worst thing for somebody with aphasia, but again, what do you do, he’s trying so hard, he’s frustrated, you know, but until you get that person to relax, figure out a way to kind of work through it, words are not going to come out the only thing to come out is that backward.

    Brooke Lang 22:01

    But what’s interesting, too, about those individuals, more so I think, when it’s not an emotionally driven word, like the dooey dooey situation, if you play a video back of them, talking in their dooey dooey dooey, and you say, you know, does that make sense what you’re saying, then?

    Brooke Lang 22:25

    They say yes. So when they go back and listen, they’re processing, what’s going back in is not accurate. So the problem becomes they’re not aware always, of what’s coming out of their mouth, which is what makes them sometimes a very challenging treatment candidate.

    Brooke Lang 22:48

    You know, first you got to make them aware. So and it’s different. Again, everybody’s kind of different. Sometimes the awareness piece can be a little bit better. But that can happen too you got to think about not just what’s coming out but what’s being looped back in.

    The three-pronged approach to stroke recovery and restoring speech

    Bill Gasiamis 23:08

    Yeah, I want to go back a little bit to what you said about the tension and the stress and all that kind of stuff. And I’ve always said, that stroke is a three-pronged approach, a recovery to stroke is a three-pronged approach. It’s emotional, its psychological, and its physical.

    Bill Gasiamis 23:31

    And in those headings, there’ll be little subheadings. And for emotional, it might be connecting to spirit or finding God or whatever. And then for psychological, it might be coming to terms with things, it might be letting go of old thought behaviors and thought patterns about what you’re capable of.

    Bill Gasiamis 23:50

    And for physical that might be I’m afraid to walk and of falling over. And then gets stuck just pushing through the physical thing. So that you can rehabilitate your, your arms, your legs, and maybe you have learned-non-use. So somebody has had a physical injury, they’ve learned not to use that arm, and then that’s the biggest thing standing in the way of them using their arm rather than the injury.

    Bill Gasiamis 24:15

    And it sounds like what you’re saying is you’re confirming my idea, my thought that if you don’t deal with anger, you can’t create the right space, perhaps, for things to flow in a way that will support speech. And the way I see it is when you’re tense and angry, not only is your physical body in a different state, because you’re all tense and tight and you can’t move properly, well then that will impact your muscles of your throat and the way that your mouth works and your jaw works and all that kind of stuff.

    Bill Gasiamis 24:58

    And then will also impact the kind of words that you’re going to get out. So I feel like it decreases the number of words that you can practice simply because when you’re, I know when I’m seriously angry, I can’t talk about love. And I can’t talk about excitement.

    Bill Gasiamis 25:14

    My vocabulary just decreases dramatically. And it’s not normally nice. So that being able to work on one’s self, as well as have speech therapy seems to be something that has to happen together. And that’s what I try and encourage my clients to do, regardless of whether they have aphasia or not.

    Bill Gasiamis 25:43

    I try to encourage them to do their therapies, simultaneously or together, where one day is speech therapy in one day might be psychological counseling, one day might be physical therapy, and it’s all being done. Because one does support the other. I feel like they all support each other.

    Brooke Lang 26:07

    Yeah, I mean, without question, the whole premise behind my practice is treating the whole person. Right? If I’m just doing speech and language sessions, and that’s it, and I’m not considering anything else in that person’s environment, whether it’s internal or external, I’m failing them.

    Brooke Lang 26:30

    And so yeah, I mean, I love what you’re saying. And I work on physical, with my patients. Again, I’m not a physical therapist, but we can absolutely incorporate gestural movement I make my patients use their right side, which is usually having credit. And they’re typing with their right hand, or they’re gesturing with their right hand.

    Brooke Lang 26:58

    But then the emotional piece, I think, is huge. And again, if that’s not taken care of, it stands in the way so much. As I’ve worked more with individuals, especially ones that get that tension, you can hear the difference in their voice when they let it go.

    Brooke Lang 27:22

    Like, they literally have a different voice. And I say to them, I said, I bet that’s your voice. And it’s right on. And they start to realize that as soon as they just reset, I use that a lot. Like just stop, reset, take a breath, let it go. And as soon as they kind of just let it go. That words there.

    Brooke Lang 27:45

    Now, not always right. But like there is something to that. And I know there’s been a lot of research starting up to with like mindfulness in aphasia therapy. And I mean, again, I think there’s something to be said, for that I think you have to whatever approach works for you. But again, that the emotional, mental well being has to be taken care of.

    Bill Gasiamis 28:12

    There’s a thing you hear about in physical therapy, the plateau. And when people reach the plateau, they get sent off to go home, because apparently, it’s too hard to train people who are at a plateau. And, you know, therapists who are well intentioned will say, that’s probably all you can expect to get back. Is there a plateau in recovering speech? How do you guys deal with a plateau? I don’t know if there is one.

    Brooke Lang 28:44

    There are people speech pathologist neurologists who will say that there is there is not a plateau and it really bothers me to hear that word. Or when people come to me and say, you know, I’ve been discharged from therapy because my speech pathologists told me, I’ve plateaued, it’s like nails on a chalkboard.

    Brooke Lang 29:09

    Because, again, that can make the difference between that person saying, Okay, I guess I’m done. And just being where they’re at, versus being somebody like yourself, who has had a heck of a recovery because you kept pushing forward. And sometimes it’s all it takes for them to kind of be crushed. And they might not pursue anything further. And it’s, it’s just not the case. If they’re continuing to work at it. And there’s some support around them. People with aphasia can continue to get better for years and years.

    Bill Gasiamis 29:46

    We have definitely discussed how we can get in our own way of recovery. But then, there’s some other things that happened to get in the way recovery, well, meaning loved ones sometimes just might get in the way, and loved ones, or people who are not well meaning and they’re not necessarily loved ones.

    Education and involvement of family members


    Bill Gasiamis 30:08
    But what are some of the tips that you can give to people who are trying to support somebody with aphasia? Because they would be completely not understanding it, in most cases that would have no idea how to even get their head or wrapped their head around that. And they would have these ill formed ideas of what the other person perhaps is trying to do or not doing or how lazy they’re being or what are some of the tips and how do you involve family members in the rehabilitation or one of your clients?

    Brooke Lang 30:44

    I mean, I think the first thing is making sure that they’re educated. And unfortunately, at least here in the US, when people are discharged from the hospital, a lot of times, they don’t even know they have aphasia, or they That term has been thrown out, and they have no idea what it is.

    Brooke Lang 31:05

    And so I think just education of with both the individual who’s experiencing the Aphasia, and the caregivers, or loved ones, or whomever they are, and involvement in therapy, a lot of times, you know, they come to the clinic, and the loved one sits in the waiting room, I think loved one should be involved, if that person feels comfortable.

    Brooke Lang 31:29

    I have some individuals who work really well together, I have others who don’t. And that’s fine, too. But there’s always ways around it. I think it’s important for the individual with aphasia to be the first person or the main person to discuss what they want out of therapy.

    Brooke Lang 31:51

    I think a lot of times goals come from the wife, or the husband or the daughter, when we never asked well, what is it that you want? And it can be hard if somebody has trouble communicating, right? How are they going to tell me what they want.

    Brooke Lang 32:07

    But again, there’s ways to support their conversation. A lot of times they benefit from seeing words, I mean, there’s ways to kind of, again, help provide visual support, so they can understand and contribute to that process. So they need to be involved in the goals.

    Brooke Lang 32:26

    And I think it’s important to have not just, you know, therapy, but incorporate speech and language tasks, and even physical tasks, whatever it is that they’re trying to rehab, without making it feel like therapy, and creating sort of a routine. That because a lot of times these people are used to being at work all day, and now they don’t have a job, they can’t work. They’re bored, they get depressed, they’re isolated.

    Brooke Lang 33:00

    So if they have something to stick to, something to commit to, I find that they have a lot more success and, you know, maintaining that schedule, doing something productive, having a purpose for the day. So even if it’s, you know, they cook dinner every night, okay, so while you cook dinner, talk about what it is that you’re doing as you cook dinner. It’s it’s a language task that’s already built into what you’re doing.

    Brooke Lang 33:29

    But you don’t have to sit down and do work, you know, I think, go on a walk and talk about what you see. You know, there’s just there’s tons of things that you can do that, again, can be built into what you’re doing can kill a couple birds with one stone. And I think helped MIT help you progress a little bit quicker. And it’s kind of like a built in home program. Yeah.

    Bill Gasiamis 33:56

    I love that idea of speaking through your process, whatever you’re doing, whether you’re walking or cooking, and what you see, I think that’s brilliant. I mean, I remember that’s how my children started to communicate really well when they were kids, right? We would go dog, and then they would say, ah, bike, and then they would say all these things that they thought while they’re interested them and that they thought that I needed to know about.

    Bill Gasiamis 34:23

    So I liked that idea. You sometimes come across people who on socials or wherever, they’ll post something along the lines of not stupid stroke, or not stupid aphasia or not stupid one of the other communication disorders. I imagine a lot of people come in after having had successful life will call will name a successful one where they’re walking, talking, working and doing all that regular things that we all do.

    Bill Gasiamis 35:02

    And then they have this thing occur to them, and then they can’t speak, and perhaps feel that they are somehow unintelligent. But I know that people are judged that way by people who are ignorant to stroke and to all of the issues that it creates. How do you? How do you address that? How do you know if that’s a thing that’s happening to somebody while they are coming to therapy?

    Brooke Lang 35:39

    Um, well, you can tell just by their demeanor. For one thing, I think if if they’re feeling that way, and I always try to remind my patients because it is it’s easy to feel that way. Because as a society, I think we do tend to judge people based on how they communicate.

    Brooke Lang 36:01

    And what happens is, is then there, you know, the person with aphasia is being once they open their mouth, and somebody realizes there’s something wrong with them, either they’re looked at strange, somebody starts talking really loud to them, and they’re condescending, you know, and so, you know, even if that person didn’t say, Wow, you must not be very smart. They feel that way. You know, rightfully so.

    Brooke Lang 36:28

    But I like to tell them that there’s nothing has changed with how smart or how intelligent you are. All that knowledge, all that skill is still there. You just have some trouble access. It’s an access issue. But it’s all there. And I encourage them to tell other people that whether they have to show them on a on a note card, or, you know, because right, like you said, I mean, people make two T shirts out of it hats.

    Brooke Lang 37:03

    But it’s out there. Because I mean, people are being judged all the time, people think the individuals with aphasia or on drugs are, you know, mentally ill, I mean, you name it, and they’ve been accused of such so. And that’s just a lack of awareness, lack of education. You know, gotta do more with that.

    Bill Gasiamis 37:25

    We’ve spoken about aphasia a lot, simply because what inspired me to get in touch with you was my client telling me about how amazing you were and that I needed to get you on the podcast. And I did what my clients say.

    Bill Gasiamis 37:40

    But I imagine there’s a whole bunch of other issues that arise as a result of stroke, and then language and then communication. What are some of the other conditions that this conversation applies to that is not necessarily aphasia? Does it apply this conversation to other speech disorders? That we’ve?

    Brooke Lang 38:03

    I mean, I would say yes, I mean, I think, again, we take communication for granted. And don’t realize what we use it for, and how much we need it sometimes. And I think that anybody with some sort of speech impediment, or speech impairment, again, gets sort of judged. And I think it can be, you know, again, as a society, I don’t know if we’re always accepting of that. And I think we’re quick to jump to conclusions about what might be going on.

    Brooke Lang 38:42

    And there’s not always a whole lot of support, you know, for those individuals, so I think they’re always, again, whether it’s aphasia or something else, I think they’re always kind of struggling to find ways to, you know, make that order at the drive thru a little bit easier. And again, any high stress, of course, they’re going to be a little bit more anxious in that kind of situation.

    Brooke Lang 39:04

    Or if they even just have to go to the bank teller, and make a, you know, transaction, it’s a stressful situation. And as soon as they open their mouth, they have trouble communicating, you know, everything can kind of fall apart. I have found too, that when somebody has a physical impairment, which, you know, you can have aphasia and have no physical impairment, or you can be coming kradic on that right side.

    Brooke Lang 39:35

    So have some, you know, weakness on your right side, right arm, right, like the individuals who have physical impairments tend to be sort of less judged because there’s something obviously going on, right? It’s those individuals and again, they call it an invisible disability.

    Brooke Lang 39:57

    But it’s true, right? So they are Otherwise, if you’re completely fine, completely normal, and then they open their mouth, and it’s like, what’s going on? You know, so I think and I think the emotional impact on those individuals can be, you know, a little bit bit more, because again, they don’t have any other way to show that there’s something going on with them. And so they tend to be a little bit more isolated and have a little bit more trouble coping.

    Bill Gasiamis 40:25

    Yeah. Yep, I can relate to that. That was my challenge. I didn’t have aphasia, per se, and it was never diagnosed with a speech disorder. But I, after the second time, I had a bleed in my head, I lost my ability to communicate properly, I wasn’t, wasn’t diagnosed, I didn’t go to your neuro psych, for neuropsychological assessment or any anything like that was completely missed.

    Bill Gasiamis 40:52

    And then when I was at home, after having gone through the first bleed, and being again, appearing, quote, unquote, normal. And communicating, as I always had, it was strange for my wife to adjust to the second bleed, and everyone around me to the second bullied and how I was not able to communicate.

    Bill Gasiamis 41:15

    So I would struggle to start a sentence, sometimes I would start a sentence, and then not be able to finish it. Sometimes, I would be in the middle of a sentence and just go on to a completely different tangent and didn’t even know what I started out trying to say. And that was the hardest part, the hardest part was getting the looks.

    Bill Gasiamis 41:42

    And then people thinking that I was joking, or I was being funny, or all these things to do was have my say, say something that was relevant to what was happening to me or I needed to get across. And it was really difficult. And then because I also have left side deficits, where my left side feels completely different to my right side.

    Bill Gasiamis 42:05

    People assume again, that I’m 100% recovered or have overcome everything that stroke has thrown at me. And I can say that, perhaps emotionally and psychologically I have I’ve overcome it all. But I haven’t physically because I can never overcome at all, because those things that I’ve got a permanent, and when I have a bad day, those things.

    Bill Gasiamis 42:34

    They express themselves more, those deficits express themselves more, and they make it harder for me to go about my day, be it stay up late, if I want to go to an event with a family, be it feel good about going to being out in public or in crowds, feeling good about walking, feeling good about even communicating, everything kind of changes.

    Bill Gasiamis 42:59

    And when deficits get exacerbated, so to speak, when I’ve had a big day. And even though I’ve been going through this now for nearly 11 years, trying to get other people on board with my condition is impossible, because there’s no other way for them to get on board, other than knowing exactly what I went through by going through what I went through. And we don’t want that. But I’m a bit of a party pooper.

    Bill Gasiamis 43:24

    I’m the guy who goes off or probably don’t want to go down there today. Or I think it’s time for me to end the day or I’ll come to the pub with you, but I’m not drinking. And it feels like I’m always the guy who gets in the way of people’s fun, and how other people interact with us is really strange that they’re not able to adjust to interacting with people who are will call ourselves different to a different.

    Bill Gasiamis 43:57

    And I imagine that one of the hardest things for people to do who are around somebody who who has communication issues is I expect that that would be even one of the hardest things to adjust to. And I’m not saying it to have a go at these people, our loved ones, our friends, I’m just saying it to make people aware of what might be happening amongst many other things that might be happening. It’s a real challenge.

    Bill Gasiamis 44:29

    And I think you can have an aphasia discussion with somebody like you every second day and come up with again, new and different ways of approaching this and seeing this and it’s a never ending conversation.

    Bill Gasiamis 44:44

    That’s basically why I thought what we needed to do is reach out and give people and encourage people no matter how long they’ve been on their aphasia journey, to still go after speech, and to an even if They’re okay, not communicating the way they used to maybe just get curious about what you might be able to achieve. Just for fun.

    The importance of finding a new identity

    Brooke Lang 45:09

    Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I feel like there’s so much I could say about everything you just said. But you know, I mean, I think, again, a huge part of their identity is they’re robbed of their identity, whether it was their role in their family or their work, you know, they had to completely shift and that’s a big task.

    Brooke Lang 45:39

    And, again, one that’s ongoing, and I think they’re always kind of searching. But I always encourage, you know, go try something different, something that you’ve never, in fact, I had that discussion with one of my patients today is like, I’m tired of sitting inside, and he can’t drive.

    Brooke Lang 45:55

    And so he’s, you know, depending on his wife and his daughter to cart him around, and they don’t always have time to do it. And so I was like, how about a, you know, trying to learn an instrument or doing a puzzle, I mean, he just turned his nose up and everything, but again, you know, you can’t expect to keep going through the way you necessarily did before, you have to kind of be willing to adapt, and try new things.

    Brooke Lang 46:21

    Um, but I also think that, to your point about feeling different in social situation, I think that can be one of the biggest things, and I think people are uncomfortable with silence. And so we avoid it. So if that person is having trouble, and it’s awkward, right, I mean, let’s just call a spade a spade, it’s awkward when you’re face to face with somebody is really struggling, or not saying much. And you’re having to constantly be that person.

    Brooke Lang 46:58

    But you know what, again, they are the same person, they want to have a conversation, the more that they’re out there interacting and socializing, the better they’re gonna get. And, but it’s hard, and I don’t I have talked to a lot of people about this.

    Brooke Lang 47:17

    And a lot of individuals find that they end up needing to find a new, a new social groups, somebody who didn’t know the old them. Because they can kind of start fresh, and I get that, but they’re still sort of mourning grieving. That past life, their past friends, that social life that they had, and I’m sure you experienced some of that yourself.

    Bill Gasiamis 47:42

    Yeah, yeah. I actually haven’t considered that with aphasia. But it’s exactly what happened. Right. So some people turn up. And some people don’t. Some people come out of the woodwork, we never expected them to turn up. And you’re really pleasantly surprised. And think great.

    Bill Gasiamis 47:56

    And then other people don’t turn up and they don’t know what to do how to be. And at the beginning, I used to get mad at them, the ones that didn’t know what to do, what to say how to be and the ones who made it about them. You know, might sound fatigued and they say, oh my god, I’m tired too.

    Bill Gasiamis 48:13

    It’s about me today shut up. It’s about me, you’re not tired. Like I am, I’m fatigued. Like I’ve never experienced in my 37 years, I just got tired going to the toilet. I mean, you know, enough with telling me you’re tired, because you were online gaming until three in the morning, and then you didn’t get enough sleep before you went to bed.

    Brooke Lang 48:33

    We’re not relating to this situation. Yeah, this is not something related.

    Bill Gasiamis 48:37

    Yeah. Right. And it’s like, okay. And then I, I like what you said about that, finding the new circle who didn’t know the old you because they don’t have to adjust their, their lack of, or that they don’t have to find a new way to do themselves. So I think that’s the biggest issue is being around people who have stayed the same, or while you have been forced to change or actually made a decision to change in the way that you interact with the world.

    Bill Gasiamis 49:13

    Makes them feel makes them have to look at themselves and they might not be ready to look at themselves, then, you know, it’s that whole perfect saying is like, it’s more about them than it is about me. And that could be a good sign. If it’s become about them, and they don’t know how to be around you.

    Bill Gasiamis 49:35

    Well, then that’s a good sign to just sort of give them your blessings and let them go away. And that will just fizzle out. And then hopefully, that’ll create some space for you to meet new people. But in order to meet new people, you have to go with the new people. You turn up and you have to, it’s hard.

    Bill Gasiamis 49:57

    Yeah, you have to be okay. Yeah, Don’t remember to go there with your deficits and go, This is me, you know, I’m here to interact with you. But I might not even know how to do that at the moment because I haven’t got my voice and maybe the only word I can say is back. And if that’s the case, hopefully, you’re not gonna take it the wrong way. Right?

    Bill Gasiamis 50:18

    You know, it’s really complicated. But it’s a time for growth, it’s a tough an opportunity for everyone to practice some personal development and some personal growth. And in amongst physical recovery, emotional recovery, mental recovery, somewhere in there goes personal development, I think it’s really, really important to do personal development and go within and see what you’re up for.

    Bill Gasiamis 50:44

    What you need to attend to, and same as the caregivers, it’s time for, you can’t be the same person around this person who is struggling with all these illnesses, because you’re just gonna get frustrated yourself, or you’re gonna get in the way, it’s a saint, that turns up to this new version of your loved one, and just does the right thing and the perfect thing every time you’re not going to, it’s just the way that it is it’s normal.

    Bill Gasiamis 51:13

    And I think it just creates this, this is what strike did for me, it just created an opportunity for personal development. And I had never done anything like that before. But most importantly, I never had a big why that was my big why that was the biggest, why ever heard. He was like, Oh, my God, I want to be on this planet for as long as I can.

    Bill Gasiamis 51:34

    And I want to interact with it as much as I can. How can I do that with all the stuff that I’ve got to live with my deficits and all the challenges. And so Okay, I think I’ve got to overcome some of my own personal belief systems, that might not be valid anymore, they may have been valid at the day before the stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 51:55

    And they might have been valid in my 20s, and my teens. But that can’t be how I go about approaching recovery after the stroke and with the deficits that I have, it’s just not gonna work, I need new ways to go about it. And I went out of my way to involve other people like therapists.

    Bill Gasiamis 52:19

    When I knew, for example, that I needed a therapist, sometimes I didn’t know I needed a therapist, and nobody told me like that gap that occurs for people. And I’m still nearly, you know, I mean, living, I’m approaching nearly what are we it’s, it’s been 11 years, February was 11 years since the first place.

    Bill Gasiamis 52:41

    So I’m still going after improvement, recovery, bettering myself becoming more or no more, less ignorant. And this is what the podcast is about. It’s even me even I don’t know how to interact around people who have aphasia, because I’ve never had aphasia, so I don’t really get it.

    Bill Gasiamis 53:04

    But I’m better than most people, because I had a time where I was spaced out and didn’t know how to communicate. So that’s just me kind of trying to encourage the rest of the world to feel okay about being in a difficult spot, and then be comfortable that they can still chase recovery, even though it’s been 1257 10 years.

    Brooke Lang 53:32

    Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, I worked so hard to get all of my patients to where you are, right? Like, how do I get them to accept this terrible thing that’s happened to them, but also pick it into year, and use education, you know, advocacy, and ultimately empower themselves to keep moving forward and feel good about themselves.

    Brooke Lang 54:03

    You know, even if you do go to the pub, and meet somebody new, you know, tell them, hey, just so you know, I kind of stroke and I have some trouble talking. Because I think just opening that door, lets them you, they become a little bit more patient with you, you feel a little bit less tense, because you’ve thrown it out there.

    Brooke Lang 54:28

    And not everybody’s comfortable with that. But then you you’ve also educated you say, Hey, I have aphasia. And they might think what the heck is that? But you know, you’ve already told them, you have trouble communicating because you’ve had a stroke. That’s enough. You know, and I think the fact that you’ve educated somebody in that situation and, you know, sort of advocated for yourself, and it can be kind of a nice

    Bill Gasiamis 54:50

    cycle. Yeah, um, and the next part of that conversation could be and by the way, I still like, footy. We call it for your big opponents to like football, or I still like I spool or I still like whatever. And it’s like, just address the elephant in the room. And now let’s talk about dumb stuff that you do when you’re at a pub.

    Brooke Lang 55:11

    Right? Exactly. Exactly. And I find too, that I think that the caregivers to your point two and still holding on to their old life. And then they’re the middleman between inviting the friends over and talking for the individual with aphasia and trying to, like call their buddies over and have, you know, hanging out while watching a football game. And it’s just not the same. You know, and it just creates this this Disrupt.

    Brooke Lang 55:45

    And they ultimately, it wasn’t a fun social engagement, it was, you know, exhausting for the caregiver. And the other one didn’t have fun, because they didn’t talk the whole time, you know.

    Brooke Lang 55:57

    So I think it’s, it’s about sort of figuring out letting go of what was and what your thought might be, and, and moving forward, but I always also allow my patients like, Hey, have your crappy days, have your days where you sit there and write, we’re not all we don’t all have wonderful, perfect positive days, so and you by all means should be allowed to do that.

    Brooke Lang 56:22

    So have your crappy day, cry, feel bad for yourself, sit in your room, and don’t do anything, as long as you pick yourself back up that night? You know, and again, who am I to say that I’m not going through it, but I just feel like if you’re sort of, you know, their feelings are certainly warranted, and you let them know that.

    Brooke Lang 56:46

    And, and that it’s okay to have those crappy days. It allows them to kind of, you know, overcome that and move forward. Because, again, the recovery is, it’s an ongoing, kind of lifelong thing.

    Bill Gasiamis 56:59

    Yeah. I like to give people the opportunity to think about a question that goes something along the lines of whatever you want to do, you can do your however you want to behave, you can behave, however you want to think about that. You can think about, just ask this question of yourself, if you can, every time it’s like, is this behavior serving me the behavior that I’ve chosen right now? And the way that I’m thinking right now and the way that I’m talking right now?

    Bill Gasiamis 57:27

    Is it serving me in the long run? And if it isn’t, then maybe you want to park it? Maybe you want to park that behavior and just leave it there? And just maybe, come back to it one day, if you feel like it? Because it’s been a while since you behaved that way. Or you needed to do that or say that.

    Bill Gasiamis 57:48

    But then what you might find is that you don’t go back there as often as you perhaps had in the past, and that you might never go back there at all. How does this serve me has been one of the questions that has just completely changed my life. Because it’s, it’s usually comes after that pity party where I feeling bad about myself.

    Bill Gasiamis 58:11

    And then, and then it’s like, okay, or it’s a it’s like a reset, but then it’s next level, it’s beyond just the reset, because it also drops, it makes me drop something and leave it away and leave it aside and not go back to it. And then it’s and then it’s the relearning and the readjusting of, okay, what can I do, instead of a behavior that doesn’t serve me? What can I do right now that’s going to serve me.

    The importance of asking yourself “should” vs “want”

    Bill Gasiamis 58:43

    And in my case, if I was going through the inability to walk, for example, and I was having a bad day, and I had just fallen, because I took a few falls at home, it’d be okay, I didn’t break anything. And I’m not going to get up off the couch like that, again, I’m going to pay attention to where my leg is next time.

    Bill Gasiamis 59:04

    And once I do that, I’ll get better at it. And then I’ll feel more comfortable being out and about in the community walking on my own without my wife there, because other than walking, I was very physically capable, and cognitively capable of being out and about on my own.

    Bill Gasiamis 59:23

    So it’s like, okay, so I’m not going to, I’m not going to that behavior of just getting up off the couch and, and listen to, it doesn’t have to be a bad thing. But my behavior of just getting up the couch without thinking because that’s what old bill a week and a half ago was doing.

    Bill Gasiamis 59:44

    That can’t be the way that I get off the couch anymore, especially if I’m holding a plate of a plate where I’ve just finished the meal. I’ve got to do one or the other. I’ve got to use my hands, grab the couch, stand up, pay attention to when my leg is move forward and then pick up Play, for example, and take it to the sink.

    Brooke Lang 1:00:02

    So can I ask you something? Yeah. So does. Do you think that that just asking yourself, Does this behavior surfing? Allow you to then discover and tap into the behaviors that are more beneficial and end user? Yeah, so what was there something that has to happen in between? They’re

    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:30

    not necessarily but it may not even I may not even get an answer, an hour or a day or a week after that. But what it does do it all, it automatically creates a place where my mind body, spirit, soul, whatever you want to call it. As soon as I asked that question, it knows the truth about what the answer is.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:55

    And then it kind of interrupts my automatic nature of going there. And then, even if I do go there, and I asked myself that question a second time, it’s kind of interrupted the neural pathways that are previously just firing off. And then, and then it’s slowly just goes away.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:22

    And one of the things that I used to do was talk about myself in a negative way before the stroke anyway. And then I realized if I’m going to, I used to say stuff, like, nobody wants to do business with me when I’m doing business out of a garage. But as if they knew where I was doing business out of, you know, I’ll never have a successful business if I don’t have an office, and if it’s not this size, and if it’s not that and if it’s not this, I’m not driving this car.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:49

    And then I used to compare myself to other people comparison in recovery is also a bit of an issue people compare, and then they put deadlines on on things. Yeah, yeah. And I used to do that I used to compare myself to people who I assumed were more successful than me.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:02:06

    And I realized real quickly if I, if I do that, there’s that behavior, comparing myself to other people serve me know, what does it do what it makes me feel bad about myself, it makes me feel emotionally drained. It makes me feel unmotivated makes me feel all those things. I don’t want to feel that way. I don’t know what I prefer feeling.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:02:29

    But I know I don’t want to feel that way. So while I’m, while I’ve discovered what I don’t want to feel, and I’m learning what I prefer to feel, what I like to do is just get those language patterns, does that behavior. I like to get those embedded, does that behavior serve me?

    Bill Gasiamis 1:02:47

    Does that behavior serve me because then I become the person who tells myself rather than my wife, or my son, or my mother, or my father telling me, hey, you shouldn’t be doing that. It’s different for you to tell me I shouldn’t be doing that. But if I’m telling you now, that’s a very different thing. And I like to.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:09

    And and this is an analogy that some people might think is weird, but and that’s how I approach God. Right? So this is a very interesting thing for me, that I kind of got to after the stroke, because everyone was telling me did you find God and I know people found God, and that’s great.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:27

    No issue. But for me, I, I respond now by saying, God, I am God, God is me. Not the I’m not the guy down the road telling you on Jesus, I’m not that guy. But God’s within me so that it’s not an external source that I go to for solutions. And then if that solutions don’t come, I get disappointed in that external source.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:49

    And then I feel like I have nowhere else to go. So I believe the solutions are within us, I believe, I’m God, I believe that I know what’s best for me. But I just need to ask myself the correct questions. And stop saying certain things that I don’t need to say.

    Brooke Lang 1:04:09

    I think that holds you accountable. That’s, it’s

    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:11

    all about me. Yeah, yeah. And when I go to therapy bait with a speech pathologist or physical therapist or an occupational therapist, when I go there, what I’m doing is going to the for them to tell me the things that I didn’t know that I needed to know about recovery.

    The importance of taking control of your recovery


    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:32
    And then if they’re telling me what I needed to know about recovery, and I’m taking responsibility for my own recovery, and not making it your responsibility, well, then we’re going to work together really well as a team. And I remember one of the things that dramatically changed the way that I used to see therapists before I became unwell.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:53

    So I had my my chiropractor on speed dial. We have a property maintenance business, so we lift heavy things and we work too hard and we bend the wrong way. And we do all this stuff. And I used to outsource the way my body felt, basically outsource that to him. I’m paying you, you fix up my back, I go to work tomorrow. Right?

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:17

    And it was the way that I went about it for about 15 years. And he would say stuff like, Okay, well, you need to pay attention to how you lift, you need to pay attention to this, and you need to pay attention to that. And it was just in one ear, out the other. And then it was to the extent where when I, when I had entire, my entire left side wasn’t working.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:42

    I went to him and told him to fix my back. And he said to me, it’s not your back, go to the hospital. And I said to him, I can’t go to the hospital. I’m busy tomorrow, you need to fix me now. And I need to go to work tomorrow. So I had got to the extent where I was making it their responsibility to do all the things that were necessary, and I wasn’t taking responsibility.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:06:06

    So that’s one of the things that I got out of stroke recovery very early on was, I need to become god, my own God within me, I need to search in me for the answers. Somebody now needs to tell me what the right questions are to ask. That’s all it was. And one of those right questions was, is that behavior serving me.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:06:29

    And nobody ever asked me that. And therefore I never knew to ask that. And when I did learn to ask that it just changed everything for me, because I realized that Brooke wasn’t the worst therapist, and I happen to offend the worst one out of all the therapists. And my occupational therapist wasn’t terrible one because she looked at me funny.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:06:53

    And it was the way that I was responding. And these people were there to help me. And I was doing them a disservice, because I wasn’t being the proper, me, the proper patient, the right kind of patient, that’s gonna get them the results that they can get for people. It’s all about me, and it became about me.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:07:14

    And maybe there is some other people in the periphery that make made my life hard, who didn’t know they were doing it. But in the end, it was more about me than about them. And that’s kind of what, why I wanted to really get you on here to discuss some of the things that we’ve already discussed.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:07:36

    So that when when somebody has said to you you’ve you’ve hit a plateau, that’s actually not about them. That’s you believing them. And you thinking that that means that you should now listen to them, and that you should stop going after your recovery. all comes down to you how you respond to people like that.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:08:01

    So hopefully, that gives people some things to think about. What do you reckon?

    Brooke Lang 1:08:08

    Yeah, I, I think you’re you’re right on. And I think it’s, I think that the challenging part is, sometimes I don’t think people know how to take control of their recovery.

    Brooke Lang 1:08:24

    And once that, you know, and maybe it’s different for different people, right, like the answer for you was that question, it really helped you and was a game changer. That same question may not, you know, be the thing for people, but I think it’s so hard to help people search for whatever that that thing is to help them take control. Yeah.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:08:52

    Yeah, the minds of the example that I gave, that kind of opened up the door, for me the path for me, so whatever that is for those for somebody else, hopefully you can discover it by being a little more curious about your own needs.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:09:10

    And the deeper needs not, I need my I don’t know, whatever you used to do, I need to do the deeper needs, the ones that really matter to make your life better and to help you get back on your feet, you know, whatever they are. All I’m saying is that if somebody as dumb as me could do it. Anyway, anyone can do it.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:09:32

    Because I was quite I was quite an intelligent guy. I I pretended I was confident I I interacted in a way with people that nobody would know that I had, the insecurities that I had. And when I call myself dumb, I’m not being rude or mean to myself and I was being ignorant.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:09:54

    I was completely ignorant about how I was treating myself and how I was behaving. When I started to learn about myself, and my ignorance about me went away, I got out of my way, I got out of the way of my recovery. And I started to take into consideration things I never had before.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:10:13

    And I started to I started to park those old thoughts and behaviors, like I started to suspend my disbelief. And I started to just put things aside and go, Okay, well, let’s park that let’s park that let’s park that everything got parked. Because I didn’t. It wasn’t going to work. I wasn’t going to be able to be a new me get recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:10:39

    be around for my kids go back to work. You know, it took seven years by the way, don’t get me wrong. It took me nearly seven years to get back to work. And to start a podcast, I started the podcast, going to five years or four or five years after all this, nothing happens straightaway or this person that you see that’s got all these thoughts.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:11:01

    And these ideas that didn’t come overnight took a long time. So that’s the other thing. I don’t want people to think that because I’m talking about this the way I am. i It’s easy for you look at how you are, look how you’ve recovered. I wasn’t it wasn’t all roses. For me. It was really hard for many, many years.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:11:22

    And it’s still hard. And that’s why I have a podcast because I need to talk about it every day. This is my therapy. And and I don’t do it just for fun. I don’t do it just so that everyone else can benefit from it. I also benefit from this podcast. So you see how,

    Brooke Lang 1:11:39

    again, you Yeah, you and you’ve taken your situation? and turned it into like, I mean, it’s the type of people that say my stroke, you know, changed my life for the better. Like what? Yeah, but I mean, again, it’s like, you are that perfect example.

    Brooke Lang 1:11:54

    And it’s, it’s fascinating and inspiring to to hear you because I think this is what so many people, you know, dealing with, you know, stroke deficits and aphasia need to hear and talking with somebody who’s gone through it, there is such a lack of mental health professionals that are able to and have the knowledge and the depth of knowledge is necessary to really help people with and to know, how do I tweak?

    Brooke Lang 1:12:29

    How do you have talk therapy, right for somebody who’s struggling to cope. And there’s a huge gap. And it’s bad, because these people need help. And they need that support. But to me, I’m starting to feel more and more that as I’ve searched and searched for, you know, a mental health specialist who I can bring on board with me and help help my patients.

    Brooke Lang 1:12:56

    I think it’s people who’ve gone through it, who are ultimately going to be the best nailed or hired the best like emotional seriously. I mean, I have I did hire one of my young stroke survivors, and she runs groups for me, and she has one on one meetings with some of my patients.

    Brooke Lang 1:13:15

    And I think it’s been like the best matchup because we’ve been through it, they know. And, you know, if somebody and again, it feels good for her to I mean, she’s benefits from it just as much. I think there’s some power in that.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:13:30

    Oh my gosh, there is in Melbourne, there’s a event called the night a night for aphasia. And it’s run by occupied by speech therapist, who I’ve interviewed in the podcast, I can’t remember when but it was quite a few episodes ago, but I’ll put it in the show notes for anyone who wants to go back and listen to that.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:13:48

    And Olivia, oh, here is her name. And Olivia has organized a night where a whole bunch of people get together and raise money for different causes related to aphasia. And it goes to help some other people that are going through that get therapy, all sorts of different things.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:14:10

    And the main speakers are people who have had aphasia and gone through recovery with Olivia and her team. And they get on stage and they present their story. However long it takes or however it comes out. Everyone’s got kind of a different way to communicate, but they’re all there.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:14:32

    And all the people around us were young occupational therapists coming through their studies and doing apprenticeships and all different sorts of things. Stroke Survivors, there was a whole bunch of other people that weren’t stroke survivors.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:14:46

    They had aphasia, and then she felt she filled out a room there was probably about two or 300 people there. It was a sensational night and and it’s the kind of night that if I I had aphasia, I would want to be in the crowd, listening to those people talking going, they used to be like me in the crowd, and now they’re on the stage.

    Brooke Lang 1:15:13

    And it’s like, I mean, it doesn’t get more inspiring than that. It doesn’t.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:15:17

    And that’s. And that’s the part where I sort of said, if somebody’s as dumb as me can recover from things that are really difficult to recover from, then anyone can.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:15:29

    And if you relate to being dumb like me, then you’re the perfect candidate, like, you’re going to be okay, you’re going to get through it, and you’re going to find a way, you’re going to find a way to be in the world, and to get back into the world and to make your mark on the world and to do all the things that you want to do.

    Intro 1:15:47

    If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind, like, how long will it take to recover? Will I actually recover? What things should I avoid? In case I make matters worse, or doctors will explain things that obviously, you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask.

    Intro 1:16:12

    If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you it’s called seven questions to ask your doctor about your stroke.

    Intro 1:16:31

    These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition, they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery. Head to the website now, recoveryafterstroke.com and download the guide. It’s free.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:16:47

    Always loved referring back to the physicist Stephen Hawking, you know, the guy couldn’t speak, talk, walk. Couldn’t do anything. And he was still at the top of his game. And everyone else learned how to be around him.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:17:10

    They all adjusted themselves, they all stepped up. And they all grew. And they all found new ways to interact with somebody who most people would have written off. And the only person who didn’t write himself off was him.

    Brooke Lang 1:17:29

    Right.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:17:34

    If he had written himself off, everyone else would have just gone. Oh well, forget this guy. Let’s move on to the next guy.

    Brooke Lang 1:17:42

    Yeah, I mean, there’s that it’s a powerful thing. You know? Absolutely.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:17:48

    Brooke, I really appreciate you saying yes. And being on the podcast. Thank you so much for joining me.

    Brooke Lang 1:17:55

    Of course, I appreciate you having me. And it’s so nice to meet you. And hear your story as well.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:30:39

    Thanks for joining us on today’s episode. To learn more about Brooke and the services she provides, you can go to iraphasiatherapy.com. And for more ways to connect with Brooke. And to download a full transcript of the entire interview. Please go to recoveryafterstroke.com/episodes. If you would like to try the course five foods to avoid after stroke, go to recoveryafterstroke.com/courses to get on board now.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:31:10

    And if you’d like to support this podcast, the best way to do it is to leave the show a five star review and a few words about what the show means to you on iTunes, and Spotify.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:31:21

    And if you’re watching on YouTube, comment below the video, like this episode, and to get notifications of future episodes, subscribe to the show on the platform of your choice. Doing this part makes a big difference to other people, finding the podcast people who have had a stroke that are like you who are stuck and looking for solutions and looking to not feel alone. So by doing that, leaving the show a five star review.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:31:46

    It’ll be shown more often by the search engines and it’ll be given preference so that people who are searching for this type of content can find it easier. And hopefully that’ll make a difference to their lives.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:31:57

    So really appreciate it if you can do a review. If you are a stroke survivor with a story to share about your experience, come and join me on the show, interviews are not scripted, you do not have to plan for them. All you need to do to qualify is be a stroke survivor, or care for someone who is a stroke survivor.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:32:18

    Just go to recoveryafterstroke.com/contact fill out the contact form and as soon as I receive your request I’ll respond with more details on how you and I can choose a time that works for us both to meet over zoom. Thanks again for being here and listening. I really appreciate you see you on the next episode.

    Intro 1:32:37

    Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast are the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed all content on this website at any length blog, podcast or video material controlled this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis, the content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing.

    Intro 1:33:11

    It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice the information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances or health objectives. Do not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose treat, cure or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional.

    Intro 1:33:32

    Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional, your doctor or your rehabilitation program based on our content if you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition, please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional if you are experiencing a health emergency or think you might be called triple zero in Australia or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance or go to the nearest hospital emergency department medical information changes constantly.

    Intro 1:33:58

    While we aim to provide current quality information in our content. We did not provide any guarantees and assume no legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, currency or completeness of the content. If you choose to rely on any information within our content, you do so solely at your own risk. We are careful with links we provide however third party links from our website are followed at your own risk and we are not responsible for any information you find there.

    The post Restoring Speech After Stroke – Brooke Lang appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

    1 hr 22 min
  • Yoga For Stroke Recovery – Rachel Jarmusz

    Rachel Jarmusz had a stroke at age 25 a few months after her baby was born. She practiced yoga as a way to help support her physical recovery.

    My YogaWill

    Instagram

    Highlights:

    01:11 Stroke at 25

    08:13 An opportunity to evolve after a stroke
    15:16 Knowing when to slow down
    22:11 Yoga for stroke recovery
    30:39 Overcoming isolation
    35:21 What is interesting about teaching yoga?
    41:45 Why you need to embrace the fact that you’re a stroke survivor
    55:54 Breathwork and the vagal nerve are connected
    1:18:06 How do you recruit stroke survivors to the program?
    1:24:12 Yoga as a prescriptive therapy for whatever you need

    Transcript:

    Rachel Jarmusz 0:00

    This is a bigger thing than just me doing yoga. It’s something that people do want to learn and something that people should not ever feel like they can’t do it and like that’s my mission is to just get stroke survivors to see that they can potentially exceed any expectation that they might have had of where they could be. They can keep going and that’s what yoga does it gives so much hope.

    Intro 0:30

    This is the Recovery after Stroke podcast. With Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 0:43

    Rachel Jarmusz, did I say it good? Welcome to the podcast.

    Rachel Jarmusz 0:51

    Thank you.

    Bill Gasiamis 0:52

    The Australian accents got a way of kind of sharpening off and rounding off and blunting off words. So I thought I’d better just check in I didn’t want to make it sound too, Australian. Hey, tell me a little bit about what happened to you.

    Rachel Jarmusz had a stroke at age 25


    Rachel Jarmusz 1:11
    Okay, so I had a stroke. 14 years ago. I was 25. And I was on a roller coaster, and got off the roller coaster and could not get my balance could not quite find my center. I didn’t know what was going on. So their emergency first aid came towards me and called 911 saying she was having a stroke. Honestly, I didn’t know what a stroke was. I was 25 I had just had a baby. It wasn’t something that was on my, you know, health list or scare lists or whatever. So then I’m paralyzed on my left side.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:52

    So did you feel unwell on the roller coaster? Or did you just go unwell, when you got off?

    Rachel Jarmusz 2:07

    I didn’t notice anything on the roller coaster no. Just when I stepped off the moment, I took a step off, it was like, I don’t quite know how to describe it. It’s almost like you feel drunk or incredibly high. And you can’t like, the world is just like moving and you’re not. And I kept telling my husband at the time. I need to sit down. I just needed to sit down and I sat down on the concrete because like, it felt like the world was like, moving around me. It was a weird feeling. It was very strange.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:48

    What was the underlying cause?

    Rachel Jarmusz 2:51

    It’s a carotid artery tear and then the next day, like it went on, I had a massive stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 3:00

    So the day before the roller coaster ride, did you notice anything that you might have thought was a little bit weird?

    Rachel Jarmusz 3:12

    No.

    Bill Gasiamis 3:16

    Could the roller coaster ride have created the tear? I know we’re speculating. But I’m just curious about how a perfectly normal 25-year-old gets on a roller coaster and then comes off and then gets diagnosed with having had an ischemic stroke. Right. It’s just I know what happens, but it’s just so it is odd.

    Rachel Jarmusz 3:39

    Yeah, my neurologists ended up saying that it wasn’t that rare to have a carotid tear from a neck turn or sneeze, or something violent. The weird thing was that he said it should have just torn and healed because that happens. In my case, I had just given birth. And I kind of think that I was on birth control.

    Rachel Jarmusz 4:05

    And that played a part in my body’s ability to heal and like the blood was thicker, it formed a big clot and broke off. So that, to me is what they like because they did so many tests. Like I didn’t have high cholesterol, I wasn’t overweight, I didn’t have high blood pressure, none of that. So like what the heck happened? I mean I don’t know, it was like a lining of the stars that just my blood was just thick enough to just come up, and yeah.

    Bill Gasiamis 4:40

    So then where are you taking the hospital from the place you were and then admitted into hospital? Yes. And how long did you spend there?

    Rachel Jarmusz 4:55

    I was in the hospital. I think it was about maybe three or four weeks, I was in the ICU for a week. Then I spent another three weeks just in the hospital. Then I went to, like inpatient rehab for 30 days. And had to do like that whole stint to learn, you know, everything. And then I went.

    Bill Gasiamis 5:27

    How old was the baby?

    Rachel Jarmusz 5:30

    Two months.

    Bill Gasiamis 5:38

    That would have been difficult. Being a young mom with a baby at home, and then you have to spend quite some time away from the baby, or was the baby with you? Were you able to at least have the baby with you?

    Rachel Jarmusz 5:54

    No, he was not he left with some family out of the state because my husband and I at the time were not from that state. So both of our families were outside of the state. And that was honestly, probably the hardest thing about the whole thing was that your life just changes in a second, you know, everything’s different the next day, like, what the heck?

    Bill Gasiamis 6:20

    Yeah. And then what was it like, getting back from home after a month and transitioning back to being a mum after you’re being cared for? But by a month, you’re not completely recovered from a stroke and you have to be a mum.

    Rachel Jarmusz 6:39

    I remember the day that I came home, from rehab, and like, I saw a pair of my shoes on the floor. And like it immediately, he made me start to like, feel depressed, because I knew that I couldn’t wear them. And they’re sitting there as if I had just left, like, you know, to go out to the store and come back and everything was different.

    Rachel Jarmusz 7:01

    It was almost like an out-of-body experience. It’s surreal like you don’t even know what to do. And strokes are so weird, because like, you don’t ever really recover in a way like I think I kind of thought, like, I’d go home and get a few good night’s sleep. And I’d be like, fine. That never happened. So it’s just kind of an ongoing realization. Like, I’m different. My life is different. And it’s a hard pill to swallow kind of it was hard. It was hard. It was very hard.

    Bill Gasiamis 7:43

    Yeah, absolutely. It’s what you said, How long has it been since that day?

    Rachel Jarmusz 7:48

    14 years.

    Bill Gasiamis 7:49

    Yeah, 14 years, and you’re still kind of feeling like you don’t ever recover. But can we put that in context? Kind of gives people a little bit of hope. Now you haven’t “recovered”. But there’s a big but there, tell me about what life is like though? Because I also feel the same thing.

    Rachel Jarmusz had an opportunity to evolve after a stroke


    Bill Gasiamis 8:13
    My whole experience started in 2012 and I’m not ever really going to get back to my old self, you know, whatever that means, or whatever that was, there’s me there, I’m me, and I do me things. But then I have to change, I’ve changed a lot of things. Simply because I just couldn’t persist in trying to be what I used to be because it’s just not going to happen. And, I don’t mind the opportunity to evolve.

    Bill Gasiamis 8:13

    Right, I think that’s a really beautiful way to put it. That’s a really beautiful way to put it that I say that I’m not fully recovered. And some people might look at me and think, Oh, she’s got a long way to go. Or some people might look at me and say, Wow, she’s recovered a lot.

    Rachel Jarmusz 9:08

    But to me, it’s not about getting somewhere necessarily, you know what I mean? It’s just about accepting what is right now and kind of embracing this opportunity to be a new person, I’m different. And it’s not a “bad thing”, I have to live differently. I can’t do things that I might have done before, but maybe those things weren’t great for me.

    Rachel Jarmusz 9:32

    And now I’m choosing different things and you know, found yoga, and a big part of yoga is just like this idea of the power of now and being here and I may not be what I used to be, but this person I often say that like I’m a better person post-stroke.

    Rachel Jarmusz 9:57

    I’m stronger, I’m more patient, I have developed a sense of empathy, a sense of real true compassion, and like, self-love is a big thing that like starts to develop out of this. You learn boundaries, you learn self-care, you learn how to say, No, you learn what you want to do what you don’t want to do things kind of simplify weirdly that’s tragic and depressing. But like kind of hopeful, like, I think, like, it’s cool.

    Bill Gasiamis 10:33

    Yeah. So what’s the kind of depressing part? Let’s see if we can kind of dive into that a little bit. The reason I ask is, because it seems like there are mixed feelings in there, you’re talking about hopeful and depressing. All in the same three words, you know? So how can you give me a little more insight into why there’s so much happening in those three words, why is it so deep?

    Rachel Jarmusz 11:07

    Well, I think the way that I look at it at least, it’s like the yin and the yang, it’s the dark and the light can be both. It can be hopeful and tragic. It doesn’t have to be one thing. And that confuses people, I think because people often want to have like, well, what am I going to get better?

    Rachel Jarmusz 11:34

    Tell me, you know, if what’s going to happen, and am I going to get this result, and I’m kinda like, you don’t know. And there may be things along the way that are not so great. But like, that’s part of the whole process is that it can be sad and uplifting, it can be depressing and happy, it doesn’t have to be one thing. And it can, to me, at least encompass all of these big emotions. And I mean, it has to because it’s what I’m feeling.

    Bill Gasiamis 12:12

    I think it’s not uncommon, what you’re saying, because I relate exactly to what you’re saying. So I’ve had, so I’m not sure if anyone’s ever done a massive, fully immersive, four-day intensive course of anything. For me, the time that I go back to was about 2012, and 2013, I did some personal development courses straight after I went through the first two bleeds in my brain.

    Bill Gasiamis 12:44

    And then I discovered that it was the best thing I had ever done. And there’s a lot of aspects of it that I hated. What I didn’t have then was the nuance to understand where the hate was coming from and what the best thing was. So the best thing was that it was making me feel for the first time in a long time that I was stretching myself or learning something useful that I was going to apply that was going to make my life better.

    Bill Gasiamis 13:14

    The part that I hated was that it was hard and made me uncomfortable. And I didn’t know where it was heading. And my head was the thing that brought to light, that discomfort that hates those types of words where it didn’t allow me to fully sink into it because he wanted to resist a little bit.

    Bill Gasiamis 13:38

    It wanted to say, well, hang on a sec, we’re not comfortable with this, we don’t know, this stuff, we’re not familiar with this stuff, just this sucks. It’s too hard. And then the other part of my heart, which is loving it is going no, no, we need to be here.

    Bill Gasiamis 13:53

    You know, this is amazing, we’re learning new things, we’re meeting great people. So there was this you might call it yin and yang. And I don’t even know if I’m describing yin and yang. But it was a separation of my intelligences one trying to continue to live the old way, and one going there’s got to be a new way.

    Rachel Jarmusz 14:15

    Well, it’s like the constant head-in-the-heart debate. It’s like your head is telling you one thing your heart is telling you another and which one do you listen to? And you always go with the heart and often the head is to say, well, that’s stupid. Do that or, you know, whatever, but it’s a matter of like, it’s the same thing with stroke recovery because it’s like it sucks. It sucks.

    Rachel Jarmusz 14:44

    There are days that it just really sucks and is like a pain but then it’s like maybe you take a day to rest you feel better than the next day and you realize that your body is cueing you how to like, move. And sometimes you do need to slow down and not do as much. And sometimes you need to put yourself out there in situations where you might not normally do it.

    Rachel Jarmusz knowing when to slow down


    Rachel Jarmusz 15:16
    So I think it is not always roses and sunshine, but it’s what we need the most for, I think, as you said, evolution, or evolving into this different person, you know, it to me, it’s better. I don’t know, some people don’t like the verbiage of better or worse, but it’s more evolved, it’s more mindful, after you have a stroke, you have to think about what you’re going to do.

    Rachel Jarmusz 15:52

    Because you physically can’t do things. So it’s a matter of like, Is my body going to move today? Or am I going to maybe not do X, Y, and Z? You know, and you strip away things that end up like, not even mattering in a way you’re like, why did I even need that and your life like, just cleans out and it’s such a beautiful thing. It is a beautiful thing.

    Intro 16:26

    If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. How long will it take to recover? Will I recover? What things should I avoid? In case I make matters worse, and doctors will explain things that, you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask.

    Intro 16:52

    If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation. Stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you. It’s called seven questions to ask your doctor about your stroke.

    Intro 17:11

    These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition, they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery. Head to the website. Now, recoverafterstroke.com and download the guide. It’s free.

    Bill Gasiamis 17:31

    Hello, and welcome to episode 246 of the Recovery after Stroke podcast. My guest today is Rachel Jarmusz, a yoga teacher who had an ischemic stroke caused by a vertebral artery dissection while on a rollercoaster ride at age 25, just a few months after her baby was born.

    Bill Gasiamis 17:51

    Yeah, the focus is really beautiful. And it is really good when things just fall by the wayside simply because they can no longer exist in your world. After all, they create pain and suffering and annoyance and all those sorts of things. I know, there are lots of times that I did or didn’t do many things that are difficult for people to understand or for me to explain or for my family to kind of roll with. But it was, well, that thing that you’re talking about, I simply cannot participate.

    Bill Gasiamis 18:27

    It’s not that I don’t want to or wouldn’t have participated if I had the opportunity. But right now the way I’m feeling is I just can’t be there. So I’m not going to put myself through the torture of doing something that used to be pleasurable, just so that I can continue to suffer yeah. And to hold on to something that is from my past. It’s not going to be possible to integrate into my new way of doing things. I just can’t. Things are different. They’ve changed.

    Rachel Jarmusz 19:16

    Yeah, absolutely. That’s, that’s like everything.

    Bill Gasiamis 19:23

    So tell me about your transition from what we’ll call your old life to your new life. So you’ve come home a month later, you’re dealing with a baby. And I imagine at 25 you are fairly newly married?

    Rachel Jarmusz 19:43

    I was yes.

    Bill Gasiamis 19:47

    Tell me about that. How did that go? Because that would have been complicated.

    Rachel Jarmusz 19:51

    Yeah, it was complicated, to say the least. We were newly married and lived in Southern Illinois. And after my stroke, I decided to move back home to my hometown, which is Chicago. And we got divorced because it wasn’t an environment where I could heal and be this better-evolved person that I needed to be.

    Rachel Jarmusz 20:23

    And I knew that. And so that was one of the first chords that had to be cut. And just, you know, I mean, that was hard. I just left, you know, and kind of tried to pick up the pieces living with my parents for a while. And like that, my parents were very keen on getting me into like, the best rehab facilities.

    Rachel Jarmusz 20:46

    Ironically, the Rehabilitation Institute of Chicago is like, one of the most well-known stroke rehabilitation centers. So I started doing rehab there. And then I just continued to do rehab for years, and years, and years. And so I kind of got tired of that, and then found yoga. And then the whole story kind of changed.

    Bill Gasiamis 21:19

    So when you left to go back home, did you live with the family or on your own?

    Rachel Jarmusz 21:24

    I lived with my mother.

    Bill Gasiamis 21:27

    And your husband and your child?

    Rachel Jarmusz 21:30

    No, just my children, my husband was still.

    Bill Gasiamis 21:34

    Okay. So you’re newly married, you’re dealing with a stroke, dealing with a brand new baby, and you’re dealing with now having to change your living environment because it was thought at the time that the best place to be was in this particular rehabilitation?

    Rachel Jarmusz 21:52

    Yes. So we’re there, all three of us, my two kids and myself in my mother’s house, and having a wonderful time. Doing like the little, you know, the little buses that pick you up for rehab, they come and they get you because you can’t drive for some time.

    Yoga for stroke recovery


    Rachel Jarmusz 22:11
    And I did that for what felt like forever, you know, just weeks and weeks and weeks until I could walk without a cane. And then, as I said, I stumbled upon yoga and saw that there was this whole other world of, wait a minute, I can do that. I can, you know, like stand on my head or do a backbend or do something that like, feels good on my body and calm my mind.

    Rachel Jarmusz 22:42

    And like have better posture and have more energy and all these things. So that’s kind of when things started to shift for me. So in terms of being more, okay with things, and finding peace in life, this is my life now. This is my life. And it’s it’s making me feel content right now.

    Rachel Jarmusz 23:12

    Like, I’m happy and I attribute a lot of that to yoga and the principles of just like, acceptance and mindfulness and being here, now, which is why I think it’s such an important thing to teach stroke survivors, meditation, because like, we get out of our heads a lot. And we go to other places that are just not productive for our healing and the whole, just staying in the moment, and I feel like yoga has given me a whole new world of opportunities.

    Bill Gasiamis 23:54

    It didn’t start that way. You didn’t know anything about it. But somehow you found yourself there. And that’s, I’m curious about that because I mentioned the personal development courses that I did, at the very beginning. And I had no idea that I should do a personal development course. I just had a lot of time on my hands.

    Bill Gasiamis 24:13

    And a friend of mine just said, Hey, there’s this course running, I reckon you would appreciate it. After being at home for six months, doing nothing, I thought, Okay, I’ll go wherever you tell me, I don’t care what it is, could have been a cult for as much as I knew.

    Bill Gasiamis 24:27

    And I just turned up and went to the course and attended and had that uncomfortable hate, love, hate experience. And then integrated that the months to follow and then started to think about okay, what else can I learn? What else do I need to know to help me in this journey?

    Bill Gasiamis 24:53

    Get me out of my head connect me to my heart and move me away from my old thoughts in the way that I used to give myself such a hard time over everything, and live with thought patterns that were from, probably not even me, they were probably from my ancestors and lived stressed and anxious and just outwardly expressed positivity and all these things, but internally lived completely differently.

    Bill Gasiamis 25:33

    Just not positive, not confident, always worried, always concerned, and always had doubts about my abilities, my lack of self-belief was just ridiculous, right? And then, I’ve just gone because I had nothing better to do, and I couldn’t be bothered being at home anymore. And then my life was like a sliding door moment.

    Bill Gasiamis 26:00

    I went into that course, and four days later came out a completely different person. Now, what was it like to go into the first yoga session? Because after a stroke with a particular type of deficit that you had. That would not have been an easy physical experience.

    Bill Gasiamis 26:21

    And I imagine, because I’m comparing myself now, I imagine that it would have been hard to deal with mentally because I went to yoga after all my issues. And I never continued with it, because I felt like it was just way too hard. It really, made me aware of the differences between my left side and my right side now.

    Bill Gasiamis 26:53

    I was essentially trying to be mindful, but that kind of mindfulness was just highlighting the dramatic difference in how my left and right sides felt. And that was uncomfortable for me to be in that space then. So long-winded question.

    Rachel Jarmusz 27:14

    I think it’s an experience that a lot of people have, after they have a stroke, either feeling like, it’s too hard, they don’t like attention drawn to their body, they don’t want to have to think about that imbalance. And that, like, it’s a bit intimidating. I mean, the yoga world has to keep it real about that.

    Rachel Jarmusz 27:33

    Like, it’s not exactly welcoming in disabled people, although they have things like accessible yoga, that’s like a different division of yoga that does, you know, like handicaps and wheelchair stuff. But I always thought that was kind of like I don’t know why the yoga world doesn’t integrate yoga more I wanna say easier, but more I don’t know, it’s not the kind of yoga that I learned. And it’s not the kind of yoga that I teach. So I tell people that like, keep in mind that all yoga is different. And you have to meet a teacher that meets you where you are.

    Rachel Jarmusz 28:21

    And you have to find a class. It’s a shame that there are no more classes that have different varieties of people who say chair yoga should be taught more, in my opinion, because people, first of all, people are hurting themselves getting up and down off the floor. And even if you can do a downward dog on the floor, you’re probably hurting your shoulders, you’re probably not doing it right. No offense, and you’re gonna hurt yourself.

    Rachel Jarmusz 28:48

    And so lift onto the chair or something, and do it, you know, on a table or something, which is what I tell people like, it doesn’t have to be hard. It doesn’t. And that’s kind of why I do what I do. Because it bugs me that there’s that consensus about it. I’m like, Listen, if I can walk into a yoga class, and do yoga, anybody can seriously because it well, I’ll tell you that I took my first class and was hiding in the corner.

    Rachel Jarmusz 29:28

    And it was a class at a hospital. So it wasn’t like a studio. It was more like older people and I think maybe there were like six people in there. So it was like, really kind of empty and the teacher was so kind to me, she was like, just stay in the back. Nobody’s gonna see you.

    Rachel Jarmusz 29:45

    You don’t have to be like and I was like, just in my glory back there like doing my own thing. There is literally like a little corner like there was like a little wall and then like a little wall and I was just back there. And it was like so had I had a different experience? I might have never done a class again.

    Bill Gasiamis 30:08

    Yeah, so you’re feeling like, go in the corner, hide, just participate without anyone else sort of without you feeling like you’re slowing the class down or not keeping up.

    Rachel Jarmusz 30:21

    Yeah. And to me, that’s the way a class should be taught anyway like the room is pretty dim, people are not looking at you, and there are no mirrors. So you’re not like, forced to look at you and stare at imbalances, you’re just there moving and breathing and doing whatever the hell you can do.

    Overcoming isolation


    Rachel Jarmusz 30:39
    And it doesn’t matter, you can’t do it. It doesn’t matter if I mean, nothing matters other than your fluid movement and your breath and you I guess your body but I will say that after that, I wouldn’t go into a class, I took privates with like a friend that was doing it like kinda like, cheaply because that was the only way I could afford it for like, almost a year, until I went into a group class because I was like, terrified to go into the studio with peers and be looked at.

    Rachel Jarmusz 31:19

    I mean, because I knew that that was gonna happen. I was still wearing an AFO. When I started yoga, like, and for like, a good year into it, I was still wearing it. And you know, you go into every yoga studio, and they say, okay, take your shoes off. Put your shoes at the door. Well, I can’t walk without my shoes.

    Rachel Jarmusz 31:38

    So I’m hobbling in. And I’m like, whatever. At that point, I don’t even think I cared. I was just like, whatever I was so in love with yoga that like, I just wanted to do it. And so then I just started taking like two or three classes a week, for like, a good few years, and just like really doing it, and then I was like, I kind of want to know more about to practice and about why this feels so good.

    Rachel Jarmusz 32:11

    And why I’m like, walking without an AFL now, and like moving my arm a little bit. So I was like, I should take the teacher training. Never really wanted to teach because who wants to see a disabled yoga teacher up in front of a room? That was my mentality at the time, at least.

    Bill Gasiamis 32:30

    I understand that.

    Rachel Jarmusz 32:33

    I’m not teaching but after finishing the teacher training I couldn’t teach I just got pulled into all these different classes. And I found out that who wants to see a stroke survivor teaching yoga as everybody does? Everybody got sucked in. Yeah, and stroke survivors were finding me and asking me for tips.

    Rachel Jarmusz 33:04

    And then I went to like, some support groups around my neighborhood and talked about and people were interested. And so I was like, Oh, I guess I have to teach, y’all are forcing me to come out. And so then I was like, this is obviously like a bigger thing than just me doing yoga.

    Rachel Jarmusz 33:23

    It’s something that people do want to learn and something that people like, should not ever feel like they can’t do it. And like that’s my mission is to just get people to see stroke survivors to see that they can potentially exceed any expectation that they might have had, where they could be, they can keep going.

    Rachel Jarmusz 33:53

    And that’s what yoga does really as a gift. So much hope it gives you so much like benefits, like the tiniest little movement. You know, I was just working with a lady the other day, and she said subtle movements lead to bigger movements. And I was like, you know, it’s true. It’s true.

    Rachel Jarmusz 34:15

    And because we were doing such a simple movement, and I kind of could sense maybe she was a little frustrated by it because it was like, so minuscule. But I was like, please stay with it. Like, just stay with the movement. And then she goes, Yeah, that’s right. I did have a therapist who told me subtle movements lead to bigger movements.

    Rachel Jarmusz 34:34

    And I was like, exactly. That’s exactly the idea of yoga even if you can’t move your arm doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter if you’re inhaling, lifting from your shoulders and your arm doesn’t go anywhere. You’re still doing it. You’re still sending the message and that slightest little Federalists movement is One thing you can’t ignore, is

    Bill Gasiamis 35:02

    Neuroplasticity is what it is. And then what that does is create pathways. And if you repeat that process, those pathways get reinforced and perhaps can lead to more neural connections. And as a result, it could lead to a more pronounced movement. And then you just build from there.

    What is interesting about teaching yoga?

    Bill Gasiamis 35:21

    And it could take ages and it could take forever, but it is legitimate. It’s what yoga used to do to take advantage of things like Neuroplasticity, but we had no proof we couldn’t prove it. So the East thought it was amazing because the East has been doing yoga forever. The West thought, what a bunch of weirdos.

    Bill Gasiamis 35:45

    But now, the science from quote, unquote, the West, you know, has emerged to say, well, look what we found out about movement about yoga about this thing called Neuroplasticity. And now they’ve come together, these things have merged. And it’s completely legitimate. And everyone knows the benefits of yoga.

    Bill Gasiamis 36:06

    What is interesting about teaching it, though, and how you got sucked into teaching, while I went to that particular four-day course, to learn about this concept of head, heart, and gut intelligence, as it’s called the embracing. And then from there, the guys go to me, Well, you should do the trainer’s training.

    Bill Gasiamis 36:27

    And I thought, Well, what do I know, four days ago, I didn’t know the bump on my head. And now you’re telling me I need to do this trainer training? And again, I just said, yes. Alright, I’ll do it.

    Bill Gasiamis 36:42

    But what I found when I did the trainer’s training, and then ran some of my courses, what I found was that it deepened my understanding and the knowledge that I had about this particular methodology that I had learned.

    Bill Gasiamis 36:59

    So teaching often deepens your practice, it’s a really important part of doing a practice, I feel the missing part of any practice is the fact that some people haven’t taught it to other people yet, and they just go participate, participate in it.

    Bill Gasiamis 37:21

    Getting better at something I think needs to have a component where you’re teaching another person and trying to explain to them what you are hoping that they’re gonna get out of it. Did you find that when you became a teacher?

    Rachel Jarmusz 37:41

    I don’t know. You’re familiar with a man named Rom Das. He’s ironically, a fellow stroke survivor, but also like a

    Bill Gasiamis 37:54

    What was his name, Tommy,

    Rachel Jarmusz 37:56

    RAM, dass, Rem da, SS those. So he. I don’t want to get too much into the story because people can google him if they want. But he ended up having a stroke later in his life. But he was a very famous meditation teacher, and kind of

    Bill Gasiamis 38:21

    American kind of Google says he was an American spiritual leader, ROM, das ra M. Second word, the A S. S. And born Richard Alpert. In 1931, also known as Baba RAM, thus, an American spiritual teacher guru of modern yoga.

    Rachel Jarmusz 38:44

    Yes, so the only reason I bring him up is because he says he talks a lot about service teaching yoga, and giving. And he says, one of his most famous quotes is, I teach yoga to work on myself, and I work on myself to teach yoga. And because it is like that circle of you’re teaching to learn, and you’re learning to teach.

    Rachel Jarmusz 39:11

    And you’re it’s that. And I think a big part of yoga is teaching it because you can’t learn so much of the practice via teaching it to others and articulating the language and all of that. So I don’t know why I thought that I wasn’t going to teach that was silly. Wishful like, oh, I won’t even but like I think intuitively I knew that.

    Bill Gasiamis 39:44

    Yeah, you said that you said about earlier a little bit earlier about how Yoga is a little standardized. There’s a lot of the same thing and you don’t get a lot of nuance in yoga. And I think the simple right isn’t easy, because there are not a lot of stroke survivors teaching yoga, there are not a lot of people, perhaps that have cerebral palsy that are teaching yoga and so on.

    Bill Gasiamis 40:07

    That is where the gap is because people who haven’t had neurological conditions a physical ailment or some kind of a problem in their lives are not at that stage where they can apply yoga in that way. And they just apply it in the way that they know. And that’s the majority of the population, right?

    Bill Gasiamis 40:31

    And these days, the buzzword around that is inclusive, it’s not inclusive enough, perhaps is the buzzword, right? But the reality is, that it can’t be inclusive because that person hasn’t had the level of experience to create the right space. For people like us to go there and feel included

    Rachel Jarmusz 40:55

    a sync point that quite honestly, I never really considered. But that’s very true. And a big part of the reason why I do what I’m doing and continuing to get my next training to be like a teacher trainer is so that I can train stroke survivors to be yoga teachers because that is so true, I love that perspective on it is that that’s the reason that it’s not opening these doors to more stroke survivors because they just don’t know.

    Rachel Jarmusz 41:28

    And you can get the most qualified yoga teacher who went through a million trainings and’s trying her best to teach stroke survivors, but she doesn’t have that body. She doesn’t know what that’s like she’s not gonna have the same level of empathy that someone who experienced it has.

    Why you need to embrace the fact that you’re a stroke survivor

    Rachel Jarmusz 41:45

    And now that I think about it, that’s like a really big problem, because there are not people that have like Down syndrome, or cerebral palsy or anything teaching yoga on like a big platform where you’re seeing it in like Yoga Journal, or like, in that, but like, That’s bad. Like, that’s, yeah, it’s a bad reflection on the yoga community. I think,

    Bill Gasiamis 42:12

    and think about it, when you go there, you’re doing your thing. And people know you’ve had a stroke? Well, it’s going to encourage people with other deficits from different readings for different reasons to come along and feel comfortable and be involved.

    Bill Gasiamis 42:27

    Because they know that you know them, they know that you’ve been there, they understand they appreciate it. And I believe that the reason there’s no space there is because they’re waiting for you, Rachel.

    Rachel Jarmusz 42:42

    Maybe, I mean,

    Bill Gasiamis 42:46

    they’ve got to be remembered, on, I’ll give you the perfect, not that you need more convincing, you’re already working in that space. But I think what I’m trying to say is you need to embrace the fact that you’re a stroke survivor. And because that’s a niche within yoga, and all your classes don’t have to be for stroke survivors, you need to embrace that part of it. And this is why right, because there are there are podcasts that are about stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 43:12

    But the people talking about him having had a stroke, I can’t listen to those podcasts. The people who are speaking about stroke, who haven’t had a stroke are usually in the field of rehabilitation, neurology in those spaces, and they’re talking from that perspective, that mindset of stroke, and recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 43:31

    And it’s great because it brings people of a similar mindset together. And it gives them an insight that perhaps they didn’t have. And it is a stat that helps teach people and helps teach people about how to particular how, for example, to support a stroke survivor with their particular skills, right?

    Bill Gasiamis 43:50

    And it’s great, but I can’t listen to it’s boring. It doesn’t give me the type of conversation that you and I are having. So what did I need, I needed a podcast about stroke and recovery, and to talk about all the stuff that we all go through every day, and that we’ve been going through for 10 years and 15 years, right?

    Bill Gasiamis 44:11

    And what’s beautiful is that I wasn’t the only one that had that idea. heaps of other stroke survivors have had that idea. And there are podcasts everywhere about stroke recovery. And they do it in their unique way because I can only do my podcast in my way and other people do it in their way. And I think and I think that the space was waiting to be filled by stroke survivors. And now we’re seeing the growth in that space.

    Bill Gasiamis 44:43

    I started this podcast in 2017. I was still very unwell. And I wasn’t releasing many episodes at all. And it’s since 2015 I think you’re going to be episode 250 Something like that. And what And that went from, and that went from 10 people listening a month to last month, there were 8000 downloads on my podcast. Wow. Right. It’s amazing.

    Bill Gasiamis 45:13

    So this is what I’m saying it’s taken time, it’s taken between 2017. And now and the only thing that has made it work is that I’m just talking to people like you every day about stroke recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 45:30

    And if I’m doing it consistently, and they’re finding me now, I was yelling about it at the top of my lungs, at the beginning, but now it’s the other way. Now people are finding me and like yourself, you reached out, I’m gonna show how you found that it’s not relevant, but doesn’t. But it’s like, the example is how things grow.

    Bill Gasiamis 45:48

    And this is the space that not only you, a yoga instructor who’s had a stroke, can feel a similar space in this world. But then other people who I hope are listening to us, and they haven’t got a yoga idea, they’ve got another idea for stroke, or going, should I give that a go? Now, I don’t know about you.

    Bill Gasiamis 46:12

    But this is a question for you. But I’m going to tell you about my perspective, this has changed, and the podcast has changed my life. Again, even more in a positive way. And sometimes, it’s really difficult to do it because I’ve got to wake up at six o’clock in the morning to fit in people from the United States and people from

    Bill Gasiamis 46:36

    the UK. And it’s difficult for me to wake myself up to do a podcast, but it brings me a lot of satisfaction, a lot of joy, right? And then what that does is that has given me purpose in life. So I’m wondering about whether yoga has become even more than yoga for you. Because it doesn’t sound like you’re just a yoga teacher. Still. It sounds like it’s

    Rachel Jarmusz 47:04

    grown in ways that you never thought of and never expected. You could say that it it started as like a thing, you know, like it was gonna be a thing over here. And I was just gonna do this thing. And now it’s like, the thing is everything. And it’s given me a larger sense of purpose in my life.

    Rachel Jarmusz 47:29

    And it’s changed, you know, my household, it’s changed so many different aspects of just my day-to-day life. And then meeting other stroke survivors who are curious about yoga is honest to God, the most inspiring and coolest thing that I think I have ever witnessed in my life, people are sending me pictures of them in yoga poses like they’ve seen on my social media, or they thought that they could do and they saw me and thought that they could try.

    Rachel Jarmusz 48:02

    And I’m looking at these pictures. And I’m just like, Tears are coming to my eyes. Because I’m thinking like, first of all, like, it’s sad to me that people have not had this kind of support before, because like yoga and stroke survivors should have been like this. From day one. It makes so much sense.

    Rachel Jarmusz 48:22

    It’s almost just like, what are we doing by not teaching these very simple mindful movements and breathing techniques to someone who has had a brain injury? It’s not like I don’t get it. But you know, now that I’m seeing more people doing it, and they’re it’s like, so uplifting like you said, it gives me a reason to get out of bed.

    Rachel Jarmusz 48:50

    It gives me a reason to stay motivated and do my yoga, seeing other people do it. And so I feel like if that could just keep spreading and keep spreading into a person nobody would have to suffer from having a stroke because it can help. Howard Yeah. Yeah.

    Rachel Jarmusz 49:19

    In our emails, before we jumped on the podcast, you shared a few things that you thought might be helpful. And we’ve spoken about yoga a fair bit. I think people know, what yoga is, although there are different versions of it. Tell me about the intention setting. Tell me about why setting an intention anywhere in life about anything is important and then how it applies to the work that you’re doing.

    Rachel Jarmusz 49:50

    Well, an intention, you know, I guess. The Yoga Journal tells us that doing yoga without intention is like an empty practice, you know, you’re not setting the intention. And an intention is kind of like a goal. But it’s not really like an intention is something that you want to embody, like right now, like a goal is something that you are setting for the future. So when we come to yoga, we are forced to just be present with what we have right now.

    Rachel Jarmusz 50:26

    And your intention might be for more compassion done that day, or whatever or more compassion towards someone, and then in a situation that’s bothering you, or whatever you’re going through at that moment that you sit and is running through your head, your intention is, is kind of everything like you’re intending on what you’re going to embody through your practice. And

    Bill Gasiamis 50:59

    it’s kind of what you’re working towards, it’s like, I want to be happy. But you’re not. The aim is not to find and remain happy. It’s to work towards happiness and do the things that get you into a happier state more often, knowing that happiness is never, you’re never going to arrive there, you’re always going to have ups and downs and good days and bad days, and moderately happy days and days where you’re really sad.

    Bill Gasiamis 51:30

    But that’s yeah, like an intention for life could be I want to be happy, but

    Bill Gasiamis 51:35

    not as a destination, I just want to do the things that bring more happiness into my life. Now, for a yoga intention, I think that’s a really good thing that you mentioned because I never went into a yoga class with a good intention or any intention. And I think that that might have been something that I was missing. Because my head was telling me,

    Bill Gasiamis 52:01

    this is too hard. People are looking at you, you’re delaying the class, and you’re wasting your money.

    Rachel Jarmusz 52:10

    Yes, well, and intention is is to me kind of similar to a mantra, because it’s something that you can use in your head, as a replacement to all of those thoughts to keep yourself kind of any you know, is there’s a lot of like bad cliches about yoga, like, when you get on your yoga mat, you’re gonna clear your mind, you’re gonna empty your mind, that’s not real, your thoughts are gonna be there.

    Rachel Jarmusz 52:35

    The goal is to like, notice the thoughts, choose the thoughts, replace the thoughts that you’re not pleased with, and insert other thoughts there.

    Rachel Jarmusz 52:45

    You’re, you know, you’re not going to think, and so you’re like, brain dead, you know, and like, buried in the ground, then you’re not going to have thoughts, but our mind is going and probably gonna just go very quickly, in a situation like that, when you’re nervous, and you’re somewhere new and you don’t know, you know, it’s, that’s normal.

    Rachel Jarmusz 53:08

    But if the teacher might have said to us, or have you had taught me, teachers just don’t emphasize the like, you go into class, and then it just starts like, Yeah, but to have a conversation beforehand about like, why are you here? What is in your heart right at this moment, and to stay in that place can be a game changer for people. It can be

    Bill Gasiamis 53:38

    it would have been for me to think about it. Because everything that I’ve ever done, that I’ve gotten a lot of benefit from that was hard. There was an underlying intention. So the podcast is a classic example. And it’s really hard to do for 2017 to now and do it in the last three years, one episode a week, it’s really hard.

    Bill Gasiamis 54:01

    But the intention is to fill a gap that didn’t exist for me, that is needed. And that potentially what this could move into is other things for me that are related to stroke recovery. And from my perspective, I think I can make a big difference. That is my intention.

    Bill Gasiamis 54:21

    And I, I knew it, maybe not at the beginning, but I some way in that journey uncovered it. But every time I went to yoga, I just knew I needed to be there, or it needed to be somewhere like that. And perhaps I was hoping that I was going to fall into the right version of it, or the right teacher or whomever.

    Bill Gasiamis 54:48

    But I didn’t find myself in that situation. A couple of them were taught by young girls who, fair enough’ll doing probably great work but not for me. To another, I was being told by an older guy, who again, just just to say hello to everyone was to sit on the mat, and then it was straight into breathing and, and then that was it.

    Bill Gasiamis 55:13

    And the breath work wasn’t something that was, there wasn’t a lot of conversation around this. So we didn’t appreciate the benefit of the breath. It was just about Okay, going to, it was a bit of Guided Breathing. But there wasn’t a deeper understanding of it, I felt like it. Perhaps the class was for somebody who had a deep knowledge of yoga when they got there. In the beginning, it wasn’t for beginners.

    Rachel Jarmusz 55:43

    But that’s how every class and studio is. So my question to the yoga community is where are people supposed to go to learn? Are they supposed to take $1,000 for Teacher Training? That’s, you know, a year and a half? No, there should be more.

    Breathwork and the vagal nerve are connected

    Rachel Jarmusz 55:58

    And then I see studios do yoga on one, you know, and so they try to do things where they will welcome the new bees and get people. But again, I’m like, Why does it have to be a separate thing?

    Rachel Jarmusz 56:13

    Why can we not just have classes where teachers explain a little bit of stuff, it’s not hard to have a conversation at the beginning about what pranayama is, what we’re going to do, what the techniques are called, why we’re going to do it, talk them through as opposed to just like, what we’re doing everybody quiet, you know, nobody gets up and like, I don’t know yoga, it’s just really wack sometimes. Like, it makes me mad, because like, it doesn’t have to be like that.

    Rachel Jarmusz 56:44

    It doesn’t have to be but

    Bill Gasiamis 56:50

    go ahead. Sorry, I kept you Okay.

    Rachel Jarmusz 56:53

    One more, I think it’s becoming this like very population-specific thing, that only a certain group of people that, like you said, kind of already know what they’re doing. And kind of already have a background in it, that go to these studios and keep going and weekly, you know, sometimes, two, three times a day, these studios run classes, and people are just going and going.

    Rachel Jarmusz 57:21

    And I’m just like, we can do better than that we can we a as a community, the yoga community, which I feel like I’m a big part of, and kind of speaking on behalf of stroke survivors in the yoga community. Like what the heck, we can do better, we can explain things better. It doesn’t.

    Rachel Jarmusz 57:44

    It’s like it’s a secret. It’s becoming like, it’s like, you can’t and that’s such bullshit because this is like life knowledge. This is like it’s it’s for everyone and it should be shared in every situation just freely and not withheld so much. But you’re so right that like you go in there, you’re doing the exercises, and you’re kind of wondering why, and then you’re not getting an explanation.

    Rachel Jarmusz 58:16

    And it loses its meaning, you know, is not going to be beneficial if you’re sitting there like what the heck is is what am I doing this for this is uncomfortable, my back hurts my head I you know, has to go to the grocery store after this and then go pick up the kids and then none of that’s well over productive yet.

    Bill Gasiamis 58:41

    Yeah, it’s it’s just the way it is. I know exactly what you mean. It’s okay because it works for a lot of people. So it’s still like, I still feel like it’s okay and opens a door for people to get deeper into the practice if they want to, and if they are drawn towards it.

    Bill Gasiamis 59:05

    The other thing you mentioned was on the Yama which is breathwork. Is that right? Tell me about the importance of that and how that needs to be integrated or why that’s necessary. And then is that associated with the vagal nerve is they work together.

    Rachel Jarmusz 59:25

    The reason that I’m is so important that I include a whole module on that specifically is because, to me, that’s like everything in stroke recovery and recovery, quite frankly from any trauma.

    Rachel Jarmusz 59:44

    Your vagus nerve is pretty much just holding on to everything that you have experienced every scare every fright every panic and the breath I kind of say that the breath of like, you’re sending little love notes to your body, you’re reminding your body that it’s okay, you’re safe, you’re gonna care for it, it doesn’t have to worry, it doesn’t have to panic.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:00:14

    It’s, it’s okay. And if you look at spasticity on a stroke survivor, it’s that panic that sets into the body and that is all the vagus nerve that is all vagal nerve issues, it’s not muscular to talk about doing repetitions, you know, or doing, you know, Botox injections in the muscle, the kill the muscle, belly, none of that ever really made sense to me, because it’s not. It’s, it’s your breath, it’s prana, Yama is breath control.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:00:48

    So it’s techniques that control the flow of your breath. So you know, you might be thinking, Well, I’m breathing, obviously, like I know how to breathe. But it’s deeper than that. It’s like control techniques, it might be like breathing in one nostril and breathing in the other. And alternating or doing a forceful exhale, through your nose is doing like one of my favorites that we shot i.e. the Darth Vader breath, you like to constrict your throat.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:01:20

    So it comes out like, like Darth Vader, raise that like, heavy breath. But that, to me is the essence of yoga is the breath. So I tell people like, even if they’re not moving, and they’re doing an intentional breath work. And when I say intentional breath work, it just means that your attention is on your breath, doesn’t mean that you’re doing anything particular, you’re just, I’m sitting here, oh, there’s my breath, noticing it, that’s intentional.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:01:56

    So like, the fact that you draw your attention to it, is the start of that control. So you may be like, don’t know, sitting there breathing, and your mind is like quacking at you. You know, and you’re taking a breath. And you’re trying to stay focused on the breath. And then a thought comes in, and you’re a bit distracted by the thought.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:02:26

    And then you come back to the breath. And then you have a thought, and then you’re distracted by the thought. And then you come back to the breath. And it’s a cycle of training your brain to choose the thoughts that you’re thinking, to choose. Wait a minute, I don’t have to like, it’s funny, because we talked about the thoughts being like cars, passing on this, you know, going by, and like I tell people don’t get in the car.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:02:59

    Wave, you know, by like you see it, I see you. Um, you’re not getting in the car, you’re not letting your attention follow that you’re simply allowing What is there to be there.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:03:14

    And then perhaps shifting to another focus. If you want to, say include a mantra, or include something that’s like gonna bring you into a deeper practice, then you can start replacing those thoughts with new thoughts or vibrational sounds chanting whatever you want to use, and kind of get out of that, like you said, that ancestral loop of shit that isn’t even yours. Like, it’s not yours. It’s not your thought patterns. It’s

    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:53

    one of the best questions I think, to ask myself is, who’s, are they even my responses? Is that how I would respond? Well, is that really what I think about that? Where did those thoughts come from? Where do I want to think about come from you know, I’ve found that a lot of the stuff that I’ve done that caused me I’ll use the words grief and anxiety and stress came from my parents, and not that they intentionally passed that on.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:27

    They did it unintentionally. And when I think about my parents and where they got that from, they got it from their parents, and so on. My parents grew up in rural Greece in 1940. My dad was born in 43. My mom was born in 45. We’re talking about in the thick of the Second World War.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:50

    And that makes sense that their parents would have been stressed and broken down and not able to be intentional and all that kind of stuff, they would have been in survival mode the whole time, the country was occupied by Italian forces. My Auntie’s and my mom had to live

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:16

    as little kids with Italian soldiers carrying guns, driving bad-looking trucks and cars, and all that kind of stuff. So it’s like, you know, I get it. And then my grandparents, they grew up in 19, in the early 1900s.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:37

    And there was a first world war. So it’s kind of makes sense that the majority of the things that I’ve received, then in the generations in the last 100 or so years, it makes sense that most likely, what they were passing down was to the next generation, a way to survive, what the last 100 years.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:06:04

    The same kind of thing, because if it continues, if the pattern continues of destruction and war and unsafe situations, well, then that’s what we need to pass down to the next generation. The thing about it is, is that I’m blessed to be living in Australia, where we haven’t experienced that.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:06:25

    And it’s not appropriate for me to live the life that the people before I had to live, it’s not appropriate, it’s not necessary when it is appropriate and necessary, that’s a different shift into survival if that’s what I need to do to survive. But right now, I can just pause that, and I can let it go.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:06:44

    And I can just live the lifestyle that’s necessary for the circumstances and the environment that I am being surrounded by. So that’s what’s appropriate is leaving to your environment. And then when you shift environments, is having the presence of mind to go, I am no longer in that environment, I can change the way I go about things.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:07:13

    Sure, perhaps I will be a little more vigilant. And I’ll pay attention to signs about the past environment, that difficult one or that dangerous one, so that I don’t find myself in the same situation, and I’m not prepared for it, perhaps I’ll be a little more vigilant.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:07:30

    But I need to pay attention to actually what’s going on in our lives need to live, the version of lifestyle that’s appropriate to the space that I’m in. That is what I learned after doing that intentional internal work, checking in with me, paying attention to my thoughts, paying attention to my breath, and being guided by people who,

    Bill Gasiamis 1:07:56

    who had already done that kind of work? And this is the challenge with going to a yoga session when you’re a 38-year-old stroke survivor. And the person that’s teaching me is a stunning 23-year-old, who doesn’t know shit from clay, about life. And it’s not her fault, because she’s amazing anyway, and she’s doing an amazing thing.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:08:22

    And she’s probably found yoga, and it probably feels fulfilling, and has created some fulfillment in her life and allowed her to grow and the rest of it, but it’s just not appropriate. What she’s teaching is not appropriate to me, because I am at a different phase and stage in my life. And that’s what you’re saying about yoga, tends to tend to be

    Bill Gasiamis 1:08:49

    there’s not a lot of people like us delivering yoga, and therefore

    Bill Gasiamis 1:08:59

    a lot of people who have stuff that they need to deal with can’t relate to that stunning 25-year-old that is at the front of the class, it’s doing three, one after the other three sessions in a row, and then she’s doing it five days a week, and she has more energy than we can ever have an audio thinking is I feel completely totally out of my league inadequate or the rest of it.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:09:24

    And it’s that’s the reason why partly, and I love that they’re doing it and I want him to continue doing it. Because there’s a lot of people who,

    Bill Gasiamis 1:09:34

    who they are supporting and helping and they are filling the space for those people and it’s great. So there are no hard feelings or misunderstandings, but it’s you it’s our version of people that we want to find that are going to guide us for the moment that we’re in then

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:09:56

    and to be completely honest it’s not repeated tentative of yoga, that’s not yoga have somebody who is not? Well, I guess, I mean, you can’t be age discriminatory about people not teaching, you know, under a certain age, but yoga is.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:10:25

    I know what you know what I actually, I think you can be in a loving, compassionate way, not that we don’t want them to ever teach. It’s that you need to teach at a level that’s appropriate to your understanding of your skills and your experience in life. I think it’s, for example, a car mechanic who has to do an apprenticeship.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:10:50

    You cannot just become the top car mechanic. At 25. You haven’t seen enough cars, you can’t see the patterns. Don’t know what when people say, you know, it’s that makes its make that weird noise against click like, like, like, you haven’t heard enough of those stories to know exactly what the weird noise is that you’re talking about. So I don’t think

    Bill Gasiamis 1:11:16

    that it’s discriminatory to say at 25 because maybe not everyone’s as dumb as I was at 25. But I was dumb at 25. I don’t think it’s discriminatory to say at age 25, that the level of yoga that you should be teaching should be somewhere around this space.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:11:36

    You shouldn’t be taking a class just for the sake of filling a class for the space provider who needs their space filled. I think they’re doing the space providers who are just putting anyone in there are doing the practice a disservice. But then at the same time, Rachel, it all potentially leads to something more amazing for somebody anyway down the track. So

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:12:02

    you say that all yoga is good yoga in the world. So we can’t say that this is not this should not be so I mean, it’s I go yoga and like brewery yoga, and like, all these kinds of Yogi’s that they have, and part of me wants to be like, Oh, my gosh, what is the yoga community doing? That’s like, you can’t go with your glass and drink a beer and then say, you know, you’re Yeah, whatever.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:12:32

    But it’s an idea to be a yoga.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:12:34

    It is. I mean, it’s a thing. Oh, my gosh, is it

    Bill Gasiamis 1:12:39

    that should be legal.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:12:43

    I mean, I’m a big believer that all any yoga in the world is good yoga. So we just need but there also is the standard and it’s more of an issue of the teacher training.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:12:58

    And I sometimes hate to bring this up because I sound like such a hater. But there, there needs to be more spacing, time spacing in between people getting certifications and not being able to go and get a weekend. Training that now you’re just able to work and train, there needs to be continuing education credits and things that people are doing to keep themselves going and then time, space.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:13:28

    So that like you said, you can acquire a listening ear for Oh, my back hurts when I do this, then, you know, you know how to respond to that person, as opposed to like, the 20-year-old is looking at me when I walk into a class like, Well, I hope you know how to modify for yourself because I you know, I had a teacher told me that one time because she was like, terrified of having me in her class. And I was like, Don’t worry, I’m a yoga teacher.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:13:54

    And she was like, Thank God this is what we’re getting in studios. Like, what if I was not a yoga teacher and I was just a stroke survivor coming in and said, Hey, I had a stroke she would have been like,

    Bill Gasiamis 1:14:09

    and, and teaching from that space of fear is not the right way to teach a yoga class anyway. And we’re not dissing people, we’re having a philosophical conversation about yoga is what we’re doing.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:14:20

    We’re just trying to get to the bottom of things that perhaps we can never get to the bottom of, but we’re at least trying to have some conversation about it, right? I know that you’re planning or you’re running a course or you’re building a course. Tell me about that course that you’re building and you’re looking to recruit stroke survivors, is that right?

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:14:42

    So because this is so new, the idea is, is that I need to get more people willing to learn yoga because I plan to go on and to do bigger training with this and to take it to bigger venues and talk to bigger yoga communities. And if I don’t have or I feel like if I don’t have a broad enough base of like comparing, you know, working with different stroke survivors, I’m not going to be a good resource like.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:15:17

    So my goal right now is to try to find people who either are doing yoga on their own or are willing to learn a four, six-week course of yoga and give feedback to benefit and help the whole program being written. Because like I said, there’s not a whole lot of research that has been done on this.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:15:41

    The small study that was conducted was in like 2012. And it was like 12 people. And it was a, it was a post-stroke, yoga, balanced study. So they studied yoga, in people 369 months after their stroke, and saw and wanted to test how it would improve their balance.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:16:10

    The results were astounding, and in every case, it improved the person’s balance, regardless of what other things they were doing. Like they were doing other therapies, it improved. And then at the end of the study, they say more research needs to be conducted, except nobody’s doing it.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:16:32

    Okay. So what you’re doing? So what you’re doing is you’re building an eight-module course. And what you’re, what you’re hoping to do is get people to join so that you can support them through this course. And I’ll tell you I’ll speak about the modules in a second.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:16:47

    And then from there, you’re going to get some feedback about what you might do, I imagine you might do a before-yoga questionnaire, and then after-yoga questionnaire, and kind of get a bit of an understanding of what they noticed what change what benefits they felt.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:17:05

    And then you want to be able to report on that, and then recruit more people and kind of keep learning about how to support stroke survivors in this way. Yeah. So yeah, the course has eight modules. It will consist of what is yoga, its history, and its tradition. We spoke about the mantra and intention setting a little earlier. It’s about pranayama, which is breath work and the vagal nerve, we spoke about that.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:17:32

    It’s about Asana, which is physical postures, which consists of three phases, or flows, wheelchair, or chair, standing, and floor. Floor exercises, and then we’ve got meditation, slash Modra, sound healing, and singing bowls. Self-care and self-massage, Thai massage, and dry brushing, and then finally, caregiver, yoga slash partner yoga.

    How do you recruit stroke survivors to the program?

    Bill Gasiamis 1:18:06

    So it sounds comprehensive because you’re talking about all the things that make for an Oh, my God, what’s the word like a very holistic to use another buzzword, holistic, Rick, approach to recovery from something? In this case, specifically stroke, right? Yes, these candidates that you want to encourage the comm board? Where do they have to be? How do you recruit them? How do they access the program?

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:18:49

    They can find me online. So it’s all like Zoom base now, given COVID and everything like it’s just it’s been, I guess, better to do it on Zoom. But yeah, online sessions can be scheduled with me on any of my social media or the website, that’s just my yogaworld.com. People can just inquire about it.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:19:13

    And like I said, I’ve been getting lots of responses, you know, at first, I kind of thought it would be mostly like older people that were new to yoga that didn’t know what it was or how it would help them. And was just curious, but now I see that like, there are a lot of stroke survivors that already have an interest in yoga and might have had an interest before their stroke.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:19:38

    And don’t know how or maybe don’t feel confident enough to get back into the world and I’m hearing such horrible stories from people they call yoga studios. They don’t get called back. They get looked at funny. They get told that they can’t practice here. You know, they don’t.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:19:56

    They can’t do certain things, you know, and I’m just like, what the heck, what the actual heck, because that should not be happening, it should not be happening at all. And so I invite people to come over to this area and like test something new, obviously, like, I want them to understand that it’s, it’s, it’s never been done before.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:20:20

    So you’re going to try it and you’re going to do a series of poses or a series of like mu drugs, those are like, finger positioning. So you could do finger counting or a finger, whatever, holding, but if you do that, then you give me feedback that then I can take to my superiors and tell people, Hey, this is what it’s doing for them.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:20:49

    And I’m bound to think that there are some really like, interested yoga therapists that would want to know how this is affecting the stroke community and would be very interested in hearing about, say, 50 stroke survivors that did yoga for six weeks, you know, and to see their results and, and to educate these teachers about how to treat us in yoga studios.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:21:18

    Because, you know, it was funny, because one of the first ladies that I’ve worked with on Instagram, I was telling her that, like, what she was telling me that she was so anxious about doing the session that we had scheduled. And I said something like, well, that’s normal.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:21:34

    You know, yoga is very intimidating. It’s an intimidating world. And she stopped me and said, I don’t know if I would agree with that. I think that the yoga community is intimidated by us. And not the like that we should be intimidated by them. And it struck a chord with me, because it was something that I had never considered, but I was like, I think you’re right, I think they don’t know what to do with our population.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:22:11

    And so they do nothing. And we feel like shit, we don’t have a place here. But in reality, it’s, it’s their loss. And they’re losing this experience. But I hope to kind of bridge that gap a little bit and bring people more together. So there doesn’t have to be this huge divide between like yourself and say, just a regular or like a, like a, like a 20-year-old guy that’s going into a class. You know, fit that might be very drawn to that teacher, because you know, he’s whatever.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:22:50

    And that, that’s fine. That’s great. I wish that that environment, well, there’s a place for that. But there needs to be also, like I said, a bridge that’s built between the brain-injured community and yoga studios, yoga therapists are like a buzzword that yoga therapy is like, you know, going to be like the doctors of the future and like all that stuff, like, Yes, but how about they like spending time with people because then this like?

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:23:31

    Like, we talked, I think maybe like, at the beginning of this Neuroplasticity was so new. And people at first kind of thought that yoga was just this weird Eastern thing. This like, Oh, I’m gonna, like, sit and like, make myself into a pretzel. And it’s you it’s just not. It’s not that. It’s not that like. And Neuroplasticity changed all of that for us. Because like you said, now people can say, wait a minute, that’s science.

    Yoga as a prescriptive therapy for whatever you need – Rachel Jarmusz

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:24:12

    That’s not goofy stuff. That’s science. And so what America and probably other parts of the world are doing now.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:24:24

    And kind of like, rapidly, I think they’re trying to study yoga. They’re trying to study it, quantify it, qualify it, you know, make it into like a, okay, so if you have high blood pressure, and you’re going to a yoga class, or a yoga therapist, or your doctor saying five years from now, write you a prescription, to go to see your yoga therapist to get yoga as a prescriptive therapy for whatever you’re going through.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:24:55

    They will have like almost a direct inventory of things to look through that they’ve studied to treat you. And that’s what that’s what they’re doing now. And Harvard did a study on yoga, trying to find poses, trying to say that this pose was going to do this for you.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:25:21

    And they like hooked people up to all kinds of monitors that, okay, if you’re in Warrior One, it’s working, you know, this, this and this, and they were gonna put it in a book and put it in a file. But what they found was that every person that they did, it was

    Bill Gasiamis 1:25:36

    different. Yeah.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:25:39

    No, they couldn’t chart it. And so I mean, I think that’s the

    Bill Gasiamis 1:25:46

    point. That’s the point of it is everyone’s experience going there, and their version of healing and recovery and aha moments, and whatever. That’s the point of it, the point of it is, is not to have it in a moment. Yeah, do this one. And get, do that and get that that’s no point. Because then going to yoga is wrong, you don’t go to yoga to get what the other guy got, you go to yoga to get what you’re gonna get. That’s the point of it, it’s supposed to be

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:26:23

    like stroke, yoga, like, is so easy, because it’s simply looking at the person for who they are, adapting a pose for them, and talking to them in a language that they can understand for their needs. And it to me, is not like rocket science.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:26:49

    It’s like, like what we should have been doing to begin with anyway. And so now it’s like, well, yeah, every, you can’t look at a yoga picture and be like, I want to do that pose, I want to get into that pose, I’m gonna work towards that pose, you don’t have that body, you don’t have that body, and you should not be

    Bill Gasiamis 1:27:10

    trying to that pose,

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:27:12

    right, trying to get into that pose, you need to come at it. And that’s why I teach in such a different way that I think sometimes it puts people off a bit because a lot of times we’re not doing much of anything.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:27:26

    And so people often feel very, like, antsy, like, they, you know, they want to move, they want to talk to me, they want to get something going, and I’m just like, No, we’re just gonna sit, you know, we might place a hand on the rib and like, take a breath, in or out or move one direction, but it’s such subtle movements that like, you couldn’t possibly leave a session and say, like, I couldn’t do that. You know what I mean?

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:27:51

    Like, because you’re doing literally what you can do. Well, it sounds like the kind of yoga that humanity needs right now. It’s just like, gentle. Let’s just move with our breath and feel any tense areas, and tight areas, try to relax, and try to strengthen what might need to be strengthened, but it’s in such a nonimposing direct, cueing way.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:28:22

    It’s just like letting you find your way. They’re letting you find a way into the breath pattern and finding really what I call like comfort in the pose and being able to be there. And if somebody I mean, it’s, it’s just why it breaks my heart so much, because when we go back to the sutras, and we look at the Sutras, the sutras talk about Asana, as being steady and comfortable.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:28:49

    And that’s all they say about it. There are 196 sutras that we’re given of yoga, and there are two that reference Asana and one of them is that it’s steady and comfortable. So if you go into a class, and you’re feeling like you can’t do it, I would say that maybe you’re not doing yoga, you’re doing some other workout thing. That is not yoga. Because if you’re not studying comfortably, you’re not in an Asana. You’re not, you’re not you’re doing something else, but the teachers.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:29:29

    Yeah. And how can you be in that’s

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:29:31

    probably going to hurt you later. And that’s not yoga. That’s not like I don’t mean to trash talk or say that this is not valuable, because it could potentially lead someone into the realm of finding it.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:29:49

    So I have to acknowledge that but when you look at the tradition of yoga, like really the tradition from like the sutras and the Vedic texts that we have about this just human knowledge, this knowledge of life because that’s what yoga kind of is, is like the science of life.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:30:12

    And it’s like saying that you don’t know how to live, you know, by saying that you don’t know how to do yoga, it’s basically like, like, it’s not possible, you’re living. So you’re doing it. So it is possible to do it, you’re just not, you just haven’t found the right avenue to do it. And that sucks to me because too many people walk away from the practice like that’s not for me,

    Bill Gasiamis 1:30:43

    Rachel, you’re, you’re, I think you’re gonna do all right. Because I think a lot of people understand where you’re coming from. And this thing is going to this thing that’s going to help you get over lunch is your passion, bring people in, it’s going to encourage people to come in.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:31:04

    And this is there’s, there’s a lack, there’s a space that you need to feel, I believe that you’re already starting to feel that space, but just looking at it from a way that’s a lot deeper. So it’s not just about doing and having spaces for people to come. It’s all it’s also about reporting on the feedback that people give about how they experience it so that you can then create a better environment and different kinds of lessons. And

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:31:38

    that’s what it is. Yes, because that learning piece has got to be there for teachers to teach stroke survivors. Yeah, there has to be like, Okay, I understand that if some because every stroke is slightly different, I like to try to emphasize that strokes kind of carry a common theme. So there’s kind of pockets in the body that are more affected than others and they’re very, I’m finding that there’s a lot of themes within them within strokes, even strokes that are very different.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:32:15

    There’s themes, there are, there are common shoulder issues, common certain joints, seem to be affected more in certain areas. And that fascinates the crap out of me like I just started an anatomy, yoga training course today and I’m hoping to like beef up some of my anatomies because I’m so intrigued by this stroke body and like, why it does what it does, and learning about the nerves and learning about the breath.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:32:50

    We studied the diaphragm today for like two hours, just like the function of the breath and how it lifts and how the vagus nerve, you know, receives all those messages and could potentially relax limbs or bring back movement to limbs just with the flow of the breath. Yeah, just sending the breath there. I mean, how incredible is that? It is

    Bill Gasiamis 1:33:13

    incredible. And it’s yeah, it’s hard to get your head around that because it’s not a head thing. You can’t think your way through that is going to be difficult. It’s something you have to experience and you have to do. It’s something that is not a head-based thing. It’s a bodily experience.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:33:33

    And it’s a very, it’s a very, it’s particularly complicated for some people to get into that space where they deeply understand that it’s not something to work out in your head. It’s something to do and experience and then and then you have an internal reference for it, not just what somebody told you. about it.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:33:57

    Your Instagram seems to be doing quite right. We’ve got here we’ve got 17,000 or 18,000, nearly followers. Have you reached out to them to recruit some of the people that you’re looking for? And how are you going in their recruitment process? How many people have you got? Well, I

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:34:21

    don’t think it’s going that well. I don’t I don’t think that people always received me quite well. And I kind of just don’t know even how I do it. I kind of tried to read the room, so to speak, and see who may be interested in it and who may seem like they’re interested.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:34:44

    And then I might reach out and say hey, do you want to try a session and then I might get no I already did yoga is not for me or I don’t have time or know that it would be helpful for me and so I’m getting a lot of like pushback I guess, which is to be expected, I guess. But then I get a lot of like, I want to learn, I want to learn, I want to try. I just had a lady reach out and say that she wanted, she had aphasia.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:35:18

    And she wanted to learn chanting, which was incredible, because I haven’t even like, started to promote that a lot. Like I do my chanting, but I haven’t really like, put it out there. But she saw it and thought that it might be good for her. And so she reached out and I was like,

    Bill Gasiamis 1:35:40

    Yeah, so

    Bill Gasiamis 1:35:42

    the reason I asked is that we’ll put the word out right now to people who are listening right now, to reach out to you, they can go to my yoga will.com, I’ll have the links in the bio. And they can go to on Instagram, my yoga will as well and they can follow you there again, they’ll get the links from the bio, your they’ll get your links from the show notes of this episode.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:36:07

    And perhaps what they can do is just reach out to you via messenger, or the contact form on your website. And I might even do a post on my Instagram and just say that Rachel is looking for people who have had a stroke to participate in a

    Bill Gasiamis 1:36:29

    program of yoga. Yeah. And for learning. How’s that?

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:36:37

    Learning? Yes, yes, that would be very helpful, I think.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:36:41

    All right. That’s what we’re gonna do. Rachel, thank you so much for reaching out, and being on the podcasts are appreciate it.

    Rachel Jarmusz 1:36:51

    Thank you.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:36:52

    Thanks for joining us on today’s episode. To learn more about my guests, including links to their social media and other pages, and to download a full transcript of the entire interview. Please go to recoveryafterstroke.com/episodes. If you would like to take the course Five Foods to Avoid After Stroke, go to recoveryafterstroke.com/courses and get on board now.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:37:16

    If you’d like to support this podcast, the best way to do it at least is to leave a five-star review and a few words about what the show means to you on iTunes and Spotify. If you’re watching on YouTube, comment below the video like this episode, and to get notifications of future episodes, subscribe to the show on the platform of your choice. If you are a stroke survivor with a story to share about your experience, come and join me on the show.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:37:43

    The interviews are not scripted, you do not have to plan for them. All you need to do to qualify is be a stroke survivor or care for someone who is a stroke survivor or you are one of the fabulous people who support stroke survivors go to recoveryafterstroke.com/contact fill out the contact form, and as soon as I receive your request, I will respond with more details on how you can choose a time that works for you and me to meet over zoom.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:38:10

    Thanks again for being here and listening. I appreciate you and see you on the next episode.

    Intro 1:38:15

    Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals. The opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast are the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed in all content on this website at any linked blog, podcast, or video material control.

    Intro 1:38:37

    This website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis, the content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice the information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances, or health objectives.

    Intro 1:39:00

    Do not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose treat, cure, or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional. Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional, your doctor, or your rehabilitation program based on our content if you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition, please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional if you are experiencing a health emergency or think you might be called triple zero in Australia or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance or go to the nearest hospital emergency department medical information changes constantly.

    Intro 1:39:36

    While we aim to provide current quality information in our content. We did not provide any guarantees and assume no legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, currency, or completeness of the content. If you choose to rely on any information within our content you do so solely at your own risk. We are careful with the links we provide however third-party links from our website are followed at your own risk and we are not responsible for any information you Hi there

    The post Yoga For Stroke Recovery – Rachel Jarmusz appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

    1 hr 41 min
  • Stroke Saved My Life – Natalie Mazer

    Natalie Mazer had a hole in her heart from birth which caused a stroke that she believes ultimately saved her life.

    LinkedIn

    Highlights:

    01:08 Introduction

    02:59 Stroke in the middle of a pandemic
    05:09 Natalie Mazer had an Atrial Septal Defect
    09:28 Leading up to the stroke
    19:19 What caused the stroke?
    26:49 Professionals who care about helping people
    33:53 Thinking you’re better than you are vs actually being better?
    46:47 What were you thinking when you had a stroke?
    57:55 Stroke saved my life
    1:11:53 Music therapy is a great tool for recovery

    Transcript:

    Natalie Mazer 0:00

    I’m just such a different parent right now than I used to be I used to have a lot of energy where I could be very high functioning at work and I could still be very high functioning at home and get everybody ready and out the door for school and things like that.

    Natalie Mazer 0:13

    And I remember just trying to coerce them and guide them through the door. And of course, they’re all chit-chatting at the same time and I’m just overwhelmed that I remember just kind of sitting down on the floor and bawling by the door.

    Natalie Mazer 0:29

    And all of a sudden my kids were running towards me like Mommy are you okay? Are you okay? Like, what can we do? And that, to me was an epiphany. I was like, wow, like, my old ways are never gonna work. Like, the new way is really how can we position it? Like we’re a team. I’m one of you guys. We all got to look after one another.

    Intro 0:56

    This is the Recovery after Stroke podcast. With Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after stroke.

    Introduction – Natalie Mazer


    Bill Gasiamis 1:08
    Hello, and welcome to episode 245 of the Recovery After Stroke podcast. My guest today is Natalie Mazer, a mom of three young kids working as an engineer who experienced a stroke that was caused by a previously undiagnosed hole in the heart. While on the road to recovery from stroke, she also had to endure Keyhole Heart surgery to ensure the risk of further stroke was eliminated. Natalie Mazer, welcome to the podcast.

    Natalie Mazer 1:36

    Thank you. Thank you, Bill. It’s a pleasure to be here.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:40

    Thank you for being here. Thank you for preparing yourself for the interview. And for my podcast by taking a little nap. Before we started, why was it that you needed to take a nap?

    Natalie Mazer 1:57

    When I get really tired, unfortunately, a lot of my symptoms come back out, some of it is speech, right? And also, I still struggle a little bit with processing and short-term memory, right? So I think I need that rest. And I need that break so that I’m not like in the middle of a sentence. And then I’m like, Oh, my gosh, Bill, what are we talking about?

    Bill Gasiamis 2:25

    Yeah. So clearly, you’ve had a stroke. Tell us a little bit about that part of the process. How did you get to be on the podcast? When was your stroke? What happened?

    Natalie Mazer 2:36

    Yeah, so actually, the reason I wanted to be on the podcast is because I guess maybe there’s a message that I learned through the stroke. And I wanted to share it, and listening to the podcasts from other people has helped me a lot in a little over two-year journey.

    Natalie Mazer 2:59

    So I had a stroke in August 2020. So really, kind of in the middle of the pandemic. So it was a pretty tough time to have a stroke. There was some, you know, I guess a lot of pressure, I have three kids so like having three young kids at home, and also, I had a very kind of intense work and intense career and so did my husband.

    Natalie Mazer 3:31

    So it was a lot to juggle. And also during the pandemic, you really, I think a lot of families with young kids were a little bit in the pressure cooker, right? Because a lot of the things that we used to outsource, it wasn’t available anymore. It put a lot on the families.

    Bill Gasiamis 3:49

    Like schooling, like childcare, perhaps.

    Natalie Mazer 3:58

    And we were lucky to have childcare and even partially in-person school. But still, it’s just like, because also like, I think when everyone’s working from home, like your team is going through a lot too, right? And you need to be there for them too, so it’s just a lot.

    Natalie Mazer 4:16

    But basically the way it happened is I had trouble sleeping for a few nights before that. And also I’ve always had migraines. Since I probably in my mid-20s. And I you know at one point, I’ve even experienced fatigue, especially when it came to kind of like my late 20s, or early 30s. And I’d go to the GP and I don’t know how you were but for me, when you know when I was younger and before the kids I took care of my health a lot when I had my kids I still thought it was healthy like in terms of trying to eat and you know, exercise whenever I can.

    Natalie Mazer 4:53

    But, you know, all the checkups were focused on the kids and that necessarily myself but at one point, I did experience quite a bit of fatigue and the migraines and I would go to the GP and talk about it. And she’s like, well, it’s got a career and three kids, it’s normal.

    Natalie Mazer had an Atrial Septal Defect

    Natalie Mazer 5:09

    So, but later on, of course, I found that it wasn’t normal, I should have been sent to a cardiologist, because what I was living with was a congenital heart defect, which is an atrial septal defect and ASD, and mine was about an inch in diameter.

    Bill Gasiamis 5:29

    Okay, so was it a hole in the heart? Or was it a malformed blood vessel? What was it?

    Natalie Mazer 5:36

    It was a hole in the heart?

    Bill Gasiamis 5:39

    An inch in diameter?

    Natalie Mazer 5:43

    Yeah. So actually, as crazy as it is, every single cardiologist said, we’re really surprised you didn’t have it earlier. Like, how did you have three kids? But to a certain extent, it’s I think, what helps me a lot. And I think I’ve gone through a kind of a lot of trauma before that, which of course, I didn’t even consider trauma until I had to deal with the stroke recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 6:12

    Personal trauma is how it impacts your health, your heart, your emotional well being your physical well-being.

    Natalie Mazer 6:22

    Totally. But gosh, and I lost my train of thought a little bit. But maybe should I go through how the stroke happened.

    Bill Gasiamis 6:29

    Yeah. So that’s alright I’ll take you back. So basically, what you’re telling us is, that you’re a busy mom, you’ve three kids, you have a career, and your husband is in the same situation. The house is crazy busy. I imagine that based on what you said, there’s not a lot of “me time” it’s all about everybody else.

    Bill Gasiamis 6:51

    And you’re doing the best you can to get over the condition of the migraines and the fatigue and all that kind of thing by going to the doctors by trying to get some advice. But that’s kind of where things fall over, in my opinion, and not that you can blame your GP about the supposed misdiagnosis which is not even fair to say that, but it’s just simply that most people your age, at the time, fit the criteria of being constantly tired, haven’t slept enough, not take care of myself, all the usual things.

    Bill Gasiamis 7:28

    And you’re, “too young” for somebody to go, they’ve got a heart condition, you know, they probably haven’t got a heart condition. And we should just err on the side of caution is not the thing that comes into somebody’s mind, very rarely does the GP have the facility, the funds, the resources to say, Okay, you feel like this, let’s get you every single test you’ve ever imagined.

    Bill Gasiamis 7:53

    They don’t have that available to them doesn’t matter where you live. And it’s something that you have to put up with a deal with. So you don’t sound too different to anybody else who I had on the podcast who thought they were healthy, thought they were doing the right things, but we’re going through just that chronic part of crazy life early on when you decide to have three kids and do all the things that we’re supposed to do. So, at some point, you started to develop more serious symptoms, by the sound of it is that kind of how it happened?

    Natalie Mazer 8:34

    I think it was like maybe I just dismissed the migraines, right? Because I also was, like, during my pregnancies, I was very severely vitamin deficient. So they always give me lots of vitamins. And I was like, Okay, I guess it’s just, you know, just the way I am and maybe it has something to do also so I was born in the Soviet Union.

    Natalie Mazer 8:55

    So it could be that maybe if I was born in this country, I would have had the heart surgery done, you know, at a young age. So I think could be that wrinkle potentially could have been there as well. So yeah, but I think it was more like I was just feeling I thought I was feeling just the regular fatigue of you know, to be honest, the pandemic and like the migraines would come and go and I was like, Okay, at this point, like, I know if I even have any one of my migraines it’s, you know, my husband’s on duty for bedtime with the kids, right.

    Natalie Mazer leading up to the stroke

    Natalie Mazer 9:28

    So we kind of worked around it. But leading up to the stroke, I did have a kind of really restless night sleeping, which I noticed quite a few people mentioned on the podcast. And then so I had I went through like kind of power through the day off of meetings. And I remember my last few meetings of the day, I was like, Oh my gosh, like, you know, like you’re just like trying so hard just to power through it.

    Natalie Mazer 9:57

    And I was like, Okay, I’m gonna make dinner for the kids pack them in thermoses, and we’re gonna go for a walk, we all need to get out of the house, we need to get exercise. You know, that’s kind of how we dealt with the pandemic, we would just literally pack dinner and go for walks in the evening after both of our workdays are over.

    Natalie Mazer 10:14

    And as I’m packing the thermoses I’m like, something’s off, like, you know, like, I feel like I’m in slow mo. And then I was like, I almost felt like I was observing myself not being me. And then I started seeing, you know, double hands. I was like, wow, I have four hands this is cool.

    Natalie Mazer 10:39

    And then eventually, I was like, okay, I think I need somebody to help me, you know, I think I need some help. And, and to be honest, like, in my mind, it probably was just like, you know, like, you kind of lose track of time. So like, you know, how we get in bed and you’re in the hospital, they quiz you like, well, how long was this? And how long was that? And I was just like, thinking to myself, I’m like, why are they even asking me these questions? It’s like, I do not have the right sense of time.

    Natalie Mazer 11:12

    And so eventually, I thought, I called out to my daughter who was in her room, but she said she didn’t hear me. So eventually, like I kind of walked myself down the counter and I opened the door because I knew my husband was outside with the kids. And I thought I said help. But you know, to my husband, it was something like very ineligible, because I also had trouble speaking.

    Bill Gasiamis 11:37

    Just a quick break, and we’ll be right back to the interview. As a stroke survivor, I understand the difficulties of finding the right information about post-stroke nutrition. That’s why I developed the course Five Foods To Avoid After Stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 11:50

    For most people are talking about what to eat after a stroke to support brain health and recovery. Very few are talking about what you should avoid eating after a stroke. If you want to support your brain to heal, and are curious about the five foods that may make matters worse when you consume them, then you may benefit from this course.

    Bill Gasiamis 12:09

    In the more than five hours of interviews, we discuss the five common foods that cause inflammation in the body and brain, and how they could interfere with healing, and how they may make fatigue worse, for just $49. This five-part series has more than five hours of interviews with full PDF transcripts for download, mp3 for download, and videos that will give you everything that you need to know about the five foods to avoid and why.

    Bill Gasiamis 12:37

    The modules include eight reasons to quit sugar after a stroke. seven reasons to quit caffeine after a stroke, eight reasons to quit gluten after a stroke, six reasons to quit dairy after a stroke, and six reasons to quit alcohol after a stroke. And probably that is one of the most important things that you have to and should quit after a stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 13:01

    It’s interfering with your recovery. Visit recoveryafterstroke.com/courses. For this and other specifically designed short and easy-to-understand courses that are made by a stroke survivor for stroke survivors. Once again, you’ll get more than five hours of content, all audio is available to download in mp3 format for listening on the go, full transcript of all the content to take notes on or read instead of listen to.

    Bill Gasiamis 13:30

    Presented by a stroke survivor four stroke survivors. also presented by a trained nutritionist and performance coach, you will also get 24 hours of access, and lifetime access to courses purchased. And you’ll be able to interact with yours truly, in the comments section. Go to recoveryafterstroke.com/courses to check them out now.

    Natalie Mazer 13:53

    And of course, he’s like, Oh my gosh, something’s wrong. So he like rushed to get me and like he says I just collapsed into his arms and he lowered me down to the floor. And then I was just thinking of like, in my head. I was thinking I was just like overly exhausted. I just like really I just need to sleep this off.

    Natalie Mazer 14:15

    And so he was also thinking he’s like, Oh my gosh, like I need to call 911 but he was like, well, maybe let me give her some water to drink. He gives me water, I can’t swallow. Like he tries to give me a straw. So yeah, he called 911 luckily, they were here like we had everyone in the fire department, the police department, the EMTs everyone was here very quickly, which is quite amazing.

    Natalie Mazer 14:42

    And actually, the weird part is it wasn’t scary. This whole experience was not scary at the moment. And all I just remember thinking of like, wow, like everything’s just so calm and peaceful, and like the time just slowed down and it’s kind of nice.

    Natalie Mazer 15:00

    And also I remember my little guy who was at the time, he was probably about like, two and a half or so. I remember my youngest son, and he just came over and he held my hand. And that was, gosh, it was the sweetest thing.

    Natalie Mazer 15:22

    And I have to say that got me through, like just visualizing that event like really got me through all the testing all the MRIs and everything, I would just every time I would feel like, so overwhelmed by the loud machine, I would just think of my little son holding my hand.

    Bill Gasiamis 15:40

    Amazing, so let me just let me just sort of step back a little bit here. So you’ve got to the point where you realize there was you needed help with something. But you’re also feeling calm, and it was relaxing, because I know that feeling as well because everyone else is running around me like, well, like, things are seriously bad. And they were for them.

    Bill Gasiamis 16:08

    But I didn’t feel like they were seriously bad for me either. I’m just going through the motions and especially my second bleed. I collapsed at the hospital. And I don’t remember anything that happened after I got there. And for me, I was just really non-concerning.

    Bill Gasiamis 16:32

    Nothing was happening that I needed to be concerned about. At that moment, all the concerning stuff happened beforehand. It happened before I got to the hospital. So I think I’m having another bleed, get ready to take me to the hospital, nausea, vomiting, all that stuff.

    Bill Gasiamis 16:48

    But then after that phase, when I lost consciousness, and I was just about to lose consciousness, and even after I woke up, I don’t know how long it was after I woke up. Just still felt real, while you’re in the hospital. It’s like wow, okay wow, that’s alright.

    Bill Gasiamis 17:06

    I felt quite rested, and I felt quiet I’m not clear in my head, but I felt quiet just not sure how to describe it either. It’s like a strange calm, like a bizarre calm that you very rarely experience in life. Well, and I think what it was is my brain had switched off. And there were no thoughts. There was no processing, there were no concerns, There was nothing. It was just no brain function. Does that sound familiar?

    Natalie Mazer 17:43

    I don’t know about no brain function, I think to me, it was more of like, as if it was a third person watching me go through this. So it was like, I was almost like curious, right? Of how things are gonna unfold, but I was convinced that all I needed was just some sleep, and I’m gonna be fine. Yeah, I just thought I was like, Oh my gosh, I’ve just been overworking myself. I just need to rest a little.

    Bill Gasiamis 18:10

    And you went to the hospital? How long were you in hospital? And at what stage? Did they discover the hole in the heart?

    Natalie Mazer 18:18

    Yeah. So they wanted to keep me longer. Like, because this was COVID time, right? So like, I couldn’t see my kids like no visitors, the nurses were so sweet. They snuck my husband in a few times, which is nice. But, like I begged them, I said, can you just like send me home for a little bit because like so they wanted to keep me there for a week or longer.

    Natalie Mazer 18:46

    But what they agreed to is they released me over, I think, Gosh, I think they released me after, like four days or so. And then they had me come back again because they had to put me out and do like a T which is basically like, they lower like this little camera inside to take better pictures of the heart and they had to do more testing. So they kind of like let me go for the weekend. And then they had me come back again.

    What caused the stroke?

    Bill Gasiamis 19:19

    Did they scan your head did they realize you had had a stroke?

    Natalie Mazer 19:23

    So this was a very interesting experience. So like the in the ICU, I remember like even the EMTs were like, saying yes, she had a stroke like to my husband before they even took me and that’s why they contacted the basically the intensive care unit so they would be prepared for the ambulance to like, just rush me right through.

    Natalie Mazer 19:45

    Of course in my mind, I was just like, at that time I feel like that wasn’t registering like I could hear them talking but I was just like, I was just like yeah, oh my gosh, let me just get through like whatever I need to get through and then come home, get my sleep you know?

    Natalie Mazer 20:03

    And the attending doctor, she was very thorough and she’s like, she got me through all the tests, she got the fluids going, like whatever she said they were administering medication as if I’ve had a stroke. And then they did the CAT scans and MRI.

    Natalie Mazer 20:20

    And that’s when they saw it. So it was a stroke caused by a blood clot in my right parietal lobe. And, interestingly enough, my attending neurologist was so freaked out because the whole time she was like, I just want to make sure you didn’t have a stroke.

    Natalie Mazer 20:42

    Maybe since you said you have a history of migraines. Maybe this was just an aura incident. And, when she found that it was a stroke, she was so freaked out, like I could tell that she was like, she felt uncomfortable just coming to see me, which was like, I have to say that was a little bit of a like, I wish it wasn’t that way.

    Natalie Mazer 21:06

    Like, I wish I was thinking more seriously. And this situation was taken more seriously. But you know, when they look at my kind of vitals and my age, and everything else, they’re like, You’re too young, you’re too like, you shouldn’t be having this.

    Natalie Mazer 21:20

    And I think because of that, I don’t think I kind of got the proper neurological examination right then and there. And, you know, she kinda like when they found the hole. Gosh, that was probably like day two or so that they found it. Or three, I can’t remember, or three, maybe. I just felt like I just got moved down the cardiology track.

    Natalie Mazer 21:45

    And, it was really interesting, because I think to me, the acceptance of having a stroke came pretty quickly. Like it was literally like, right there in the hospital was like, Okay, well, I’m alive. And of course, I was like, trying not to think of the risks of having a repeated stroke.

    Natalie Mazer 22:07

    And I was thinking was cool, whatever, like, I’ll get through it. I’ve gotten through lots of hard things in life, this is going to be okay. I think what though, brought me down to my knees was at the time, of course in the hospital, then I realized that the stroke was much more difficult to recover from. That when my cardiologist did the initial examination, even the initial examination, she said, Well, you might need open heart surgery.

    Natalie Mazer 22:34

    And I was like, Oh my gosh, because not only that, they find the hole. They also believed that maybe they found this like fibroelastoma, which is kind of like growth on my mitral valve. And they said, Look, if we close the hole, and the growth is on the mitral valve, you could still get like it’s going directly into your brain again.

    Natalie Mazer 23:00

    So I think that was probably like, I felt like the minute I was like, Okay, fine, I had a stroke, I’m alive. I’m so lucky. And I’m so grateful. And then like getting hit with that. And also I ended up having an allergic reaction to Lipitor, which is something they administer to you when you have a stroke, regardless of whether you have high cholesterol or not.

    Bill Gasiamis 23:27

    Chaotic by the sound of things, which describes stroke anyway, like it’s, yeah, it’s what you hear it’s chaos, always. People that are just trying to make the right decisions. Doctors are under stress, because of COVID. They’re probably overworked.

    Bill Gasiamis 23:48

    In their mind, they have a hypothesis of what happened to them. So they’re running with that hypothesis first. And then they feel bad. And then they misdiagnosed you perhaps. And it’s I mean, they’re just as human as you and they’ve probably got three kids, and they probably overworked and you know, a whole bunch of things, and as much as we want to blame people as much as sometimes we do, we get to the point where it’s like, wow, okay, let’s see if we can start again and just go again and resolve the issue that we found and move on.

    Bill Gasiamis 24:38

    But that’s the complicated part about people who have a stroke, that the cause is somewhere else. That’s the thing I’ve known people who’ve had brain hemorrhages that were caused by a blood vessel in the head but when they were discovered by the doctors or by the paramedics, the heart had stopped.

    Bill Gasiamis 25:06

    So they would restart the person’s heart. And then they’d be causing more damage in the head. And then the person would crash again. And then the heart would stop. So they were thinking it was the heart, but it was the head, but by the time you work it all out, you know, how do you get to that point of knowing all the details that you need to know about for that person immediately went when the cause of the stroke is from another location.

    Bill Gasiamis 25:33

    And it’s not unfair to treat a heart condition when there is a heart condition, there’s opposition there, you know, so, and COVID, they were motivated to get people out of hospitals. I know, in Australia, they did everything they could not to keep anyone for any other condition in the hospital if it was possible. And a lot of people were sent home when they wouldn’t have normally been sent home, they would have more time to manage them.

    Natalie Mazer 26:03

    But like, to be honest, I just wanted to go home, right, I think I just wanted to kind of see my kids. But yeah, I agree with you, I think they logically did the right thing, because they said, Oh my gosh, and they kept talking about it. They said since you’re young, we need to do everything possible to prevent another right so I think that’s why they just focused so much on Hey, we got to fix your heart. Right? Then, of course, I was on blood thinners and all this other appropriate medication, right?

    Bill Gasiamis 26:37

    And the one-inch hole in your heart, that they discovered a one-inch hole. They’re going you know, they could probably drive a truck through this thing. We need to stop that from happening, you know?

    Professionals who care about helping people

    Natalie Mazer 26:49

    Speaking of that later on, so of course, the hospital cardiologists were not the same, because of our local hospital. So it wasn’t the same as the, you know, the surgeons, we have to kind of find a surgeon after that. And I have to say, I am so grateful, I’m so touched by every single cardiologist who has helped me like both the attending cardiologist and it was a team of moms funny enough, they were so sweet and supportive.

    Natalie Mazer 27:19

    They even like decided to give me anesthesia, before rolling me into the operation room and I’m like, yes, this is so wonderful, like, you know, because you already have a lot of anxiety, like post-stroke, right? They were so loving and caring and also the cardiologist who ended up doing the surgery.

    Natalie Mazer 27:40

    My husband reached out to him. He had a FaceTime call with him in the evening. Like he wasn’t even working. He just said, Oh my gosh, like, let’s talk right now want to see images, and then we can worry about, like, your paperwork in my office. It’s like, I was really touched by just such an outpouring of support, like and professionals who care about helping people and kinda, save a life. I think that was touching for sure.

    Bill Gasiamis 28:13

    Yeah, because they can save a life, but they also can help reduce the stress and the anxiety of other people. I think that’s not… again, I’m not judging, I don’t want to judge anybody. But I think that’s not done enough. And the reason I say that is because my wife, like you, you’re thinking about your kids.

    Bill Gasiamis 28:37

    So even in the time when I’ve had the stroke, my wife is thinking about me, and her kids that are at home, and I’ll tell you what she’s not doing is thinking about herself. So that sometimes, if there’s lack of information, or lack of contact, or lack of communication, or some kind of way of keeping her in the loop, and keeping her calm.

    Bill Gasiamis 29:00

    We often hear about caregivers who become unwell at the same time, that the person that they’re supposed to be caring for is unwell. And that’s the worst situation to be in. And if we can find a way to relieve the stress for the caregivers, and for the people that are left behind at home or wherever, I think it’s really important to do it if you can, and try and make the condition better so that the caregivers or the people behind at home, are less anxious if it’s at all possible, and I know it’s not always possible, but I just remember my wife collapsing a couple of times my dad collapsed.

    Bill Gasiamis 29:44

    My wife collapsed after my brain surgery. My dad collapsed when I was first diagnosed a couple of years earlier. And as a stroke survivor, I’m in the hospital. What I need is, I need everyone else to be healthy around me for the time Being I need to be looked after and cared for. And it’s, please be healthy, when I need you the most, you know, so anything that we can do to support caregivers, I think it’s really important the fact that your surgeon did that is just amazing.

    Bill Gasiamis 30:19

    And it just goes to show you again, it’s that thing of the care, the medical care doesn’t stop after you’ve closed somebody’s chest, or you’ve stitched their head, or anything, it does continue, and they’ve got a massive job, a huge responsibility. And they do amazing things you and I wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for the current world that we live in and the medical advancements, you know, we wouldn’t be having a podcast interview.

    Natalie Mazer 30:54

    Yeah, you’re right. You know, like that kind of emotional support. And, like an or just like treating you like as a as a human right. And relating to the human level. Oh, my gosh, that’s just like, I feel like they can either make you feel. And I think maybe that was my contrast, right? Like, like, in the early on, of course, now I have a very wonderful and supportive and amazing neurologist.

    Natalie Mazer 31:18

    But like my that remember how it was like kind of showing the contrast of like, this neurologist in the hospital, who was like, Oh, my gosh, like, I can’t believe I have to do my rounds. Like, I don’t know how to be near you, like you feel it. But I feel like actually, after the stroke, I felt that energy stronger, right, then people and then versus, like the folks who I initially encountered on the cardiology track, and they were all just like, just lifting me, like, in the time where and when I needed that, right? Because it’s just like, yeah,

    Bill Gasiamis 31:51

    people feel people treat themselves badly when they’ve made a mistake, they feel guilty, and who knows what the reasons are. And it’s unnecessary I think a mistake is something that happens, and you can just simply, and even stroke survivors do that to themselves, we all do. And a mistake is just something that you can restart from, and just go again. And The quicker you realize it and just let it go and move on, the better.

    Bill Gasiamis 32:19

    The better support and service, you can be to the other person, because you made the mistake against, for example, doctors and nurses, I look, I couldn’t be a doctor or a nurse, the shift work, you know, the, the, the time of the shift the amount of time they’re on a shift the amount of support and love and care that they’ve got to give to other people all the time.

    Bill Gasiamis 32:47

    And they’ve probably got kids that are doing that they’re being supportive of just like us regular folk, because imagine being somebody who has to pour out their support and care for other people all the time that they’ve never met before. And it’s a, you need a big reserve of energy to be able to do that.

    Bill Gasiamis 33:11

    And you need to be able to do that all the time at work, you can never get it wrong. And imagine needing to, you’re having a bad day, and you have to be at work, and you have to do neurological diagnosis, and you got to do all these things. It just seems like they just seem like they’re the most amazing people in the world.

    Bill Gasiamis 33:32

    And they get it wrong every once in a while, you know, so grateful for the fact that we have people like that in in our communities on the planet who have decided that they’re going to make it about us and people they’ve never met before.

    Natalie Mazer 33:50

    It’s ridiculous. Yeah.

    Thinking you’re better than you are vs actually being better

    Bill Gasiamis 33:53

    I’m not able to have that much time and energy for other people. I’m just not. Now you’re you’re in hospital, and you’re thinking I just want to go home to the kids. I just want to go home to the kids now. I get you’re a mom and you miss your kids. But is there a disconnect there with thinking that you’re better than you are? Do you have some kind of idea that oh, my gosh.

    Natalie Mazer 34:22

    Um, I think I’m not sure if it was maybe I think in the hospital, I just wanted a frequent frankly, the real reason behind me wanting to go home and see my kids in the hospital is that I wanted to see them one more time.

    Bill Gasiamis 34:39

    Wow. Yeah, okay. Yeah, that’s, uh, in terms

    Natalie Mazer 34:43

    of your other question of thinking that I’m better than I I’m better and more capable than I am. Oh, that lasted for me for many, many months. I wasn’t Yes, I was certainly in denial with my deficits, and I think especially and I think especially since, like my, you know, like, I guess since I was steered to the cardiology, surgical track, right, so of course, they hooked me up with a monitor, they had to give me a bunch of tests.

    Natalie Mazer 35:13

    Right. And it was very much prepped for surgery. Right. And I think that’s, that’s kind of like, so my whole thing is, eventually when I came home I just slept a lot. I was just like, sleeping and sleeping and sleeping. Did I see my kids? Absolutely. But then I was also an actually, I remember the most shocking thing, like just really wanting to come out of the hospital.

    Natalie Mazer 35:37

    But then when they came out of the hospital, I was like, Oh, my gosh, I don’t remember the world being so bright and so loud. And just wanting to curl up in a ball in a quiet dark place. Right? It’s because you’re just thinking, right? Sorry, overload.

    Natalie Mazer 35:55

    Yes, yes. And it took us a while I think I think, you know, within the pandemic, and everything else, like I think I was just so focused on like addressing, you know, the heart, and we did, and then after that, I was like, Oh my gosh, because I’m, you know, I’m at home, I’m realizing that, like, even going for a walk outside, you know, as I got better over time was hard, because crickets are allowed, if everything’s too bright, like, I wear sunglasses all the time, I was just like, I couldn’t handle more than just, you know, initially just a few minutes outside, right.

    Natalie Mazer 36:32

    And eventually, like, I tried to go longer and longer. And the thing is, so later on, it almost took a year actually, for me to figure out to properly be diagnosed with all my deficits.

    Natalie Mazer 36:49

    So I lost some, because they were mostly so actually, while my left arm was numb, right away, right, but, um, so like, from a physical, I think that’s what happened, I think they, when they were discharged from the hospital, they were looking more for, like physical deficiencies.

    Natalie Mazer 37:06

    And my arm was numb, and you know, my fingers kind of had a hard time moving and everything, but it recovered very quickly. Like, you know, from time to time, I’ll have like, my shoulder feels a little stiff, even now. But like, I didn’t think of it as a big deal. Like I was able to, you know, walk and you know, and the function are, so technically I look the same, but it’s all invisible issues that took such a long time to understand.

    Natalie Mazer 37:36

    So like, from a visual perspective, I lost my perception of depth, which explains why I’m sitting here like, my husband’s driving me home, and I’m like, covering my eyes up because I’m like, Oh my gosh, like, I feel like we’re about to hit everything on the road, right? Because if you don’t see the depths, everything’s kind of two-dimensional, flat, and right in your face, right? And also, I lost some of the periphery.

    Natalie Mazer 38:03

    And also, you know, very much visual and auditory overstimulation. I had vestibular issues. And also, which also took months to discover I acquired sleep apnea, like central sleep apnea, which, like, especially early on, after the stroke, I would dread going to bed every night.

    Natalie Mazer 38:29

    Even though it’s so tiring, right, though so thoroughly wanted to do so like I would want to sleep but the same thing with dread going to bed because especially if, if it was like a very overstimulating day, like with central sleep apnea, you basically kind of like so we take little pauses as we breathe, apparently, during the night.

    Natalie Mazer 38:49

    But here, you kind of forget to breathe. So you wake up, and you gasp for air and you fall back asleep. And that happens repeatedly, you know, for a few hours before you’re finally like, kind of calmed down. You kind of start but to be honest, I didn’t even think to mention it to my doctors, because I was like, Oh, this must be something you know, that I just have to deal with. Like, that’s what I mean.

    Natalie Mazer 39:15

    Like, I think to your point, though, I would notice all these weird things. Or like, for example, when I was trying to, you know, put my kids to bed and I would just like oh, like I always would sing songs. I’ll tell them all these Nursery Rhymes and I’m like, and I started the first sentence and then I’m completely blank.

    Natalie Mazer 39:33

    And I’m like, Oh, boy. Or, music, right? I forgot how to read the bass clef. Not the treble clef. But I guess because I learned the treble clef earlier on maybe in my life. I don’t know what it was, but it was just, but the funny part is it didn’t like that wasn’t a red flag.

    Natalie Mazer 39:53

    I was questioned, it seems like they wrote something wrong. This music page was kind of how I perceived it. Right. So yeah, I think a lot of these invisible issues are really hard to identify for yourself like you almost need Yes.

    Bill Gasiamis 40:11

    Yeah, it wasn’t a red flag that’s interesting. So I went through that. So after the second blade, I came home and I couldn’t finish a sentence, I couldn’t type an email, I couldn’t remember who came to visit me, I’d start. I was, I was, I couldn’t track time how much time had passed?

    Bill Gasiamis 40:32

    You know, I was in, I was in this whole weird kind of out-of-head experience, not out of body out of the head experience. It felt like, I’ve smoked weed a few times in my life. And I felt like I was completely stoned the whole time. You know? And I would have a conversation with my wife about what I’m feeling.

    Bill Gasiamis 40:52

    And she would be wondering what was happening. Because clearly, I was behaving differently. And I was skateboarding, I don’t know. And she would say, Well, I don’t. Is that normal? Is it part of the stroke? Is that? Are you having another one? Where are you? Where are we at? And I was, I don’t know.

    Bill Gasiamis 41:11

    And we were just kind of have to wing it, we do have to hope that it wasn’t another one. And many times we went to hospital because we thought I was having another stroke. And it wasn’t another stroke. And it’s, it’s just a mess. And I remember that one of the first things I did after I came back home after the second hospital harbor hospital stay was I went to see my counselor.

    Bill Gasiamis 41:35

    And she had noticed the difference in the way that I was behaving cognitively. And she said to me, have you ever heard of a neuropsychologist? And I thought, No, I’ve never heard of that. I don’t know what that is. And you said, Well, it’s somebody who will check your cognitive ability and give you an idea of if there’s any deficits there. And I thought, oh, okay, that sounds like a good idea.

    Bill Gasiamis 42:01

    We’ll go and send us psychologists. And maybe we can get a few more answers because no one told me what to expect when I went home after the second blade. And I was in a pretty bad way. Then I went to make an appointment with the neuropsychologist. And again, what we didn’t realize was that I could make a private appointment if I wanted to. But we made a public appointment through the hospital’s public system.

    Bill Gasiamis 42:28

    And the waiting list was about nine months long. Oh, my gosh, I didn’t know. And we just thought, okay, yeah, we’ll take that one, no problem. So I struggled with the deficits for about three or four or five months. And it’s, they started to get better as time went on, but we just kind of put up with it. And I put up with it, and my wife put up with it. And we just didn’t know how to deal with it. And we were looking for help. And we didn’t know how to ask for help about it.

    Bill Gasiamis 43:05

    That’s the other weird part. I didn’t know the question to ask my neurologist, or any of the doctors to say, What do I do about this thing? Where do I feel stoned all the time? Or? How do I even describe that to a doctor? And what do I say? So we didn’t even have the words we didn’t have that converse, that ability to make the sentence to express our concerns.

    Bill Gasiamis 43:32

    Because we’re dealing with neurological terms, we’re dealing with a weird Brain and my wife is not inside my body. She’s outside of me. And she’s observing me, she knows I’ve had a stroke. So certain things are kind of acceptable, when we can accept that Bill’s had a stroke, and he’s behaving differently or speaking differently.

    Bill Gasiamis 43:52

    We kind of understand that part. But then what what do we do about it? So that’s the important thing is kind of the caregivers who are listening. And perhaps even the stroke survivors who are listening, need to be able to kind of find a way to get the message across. I’m struggling with something with this with that, who else can help me that’s why I have the download from my website, seven questions to ask a doctor about your stroke.

    Natalie Mazer 44:19

    I read those read I have to say, I’m, I think I might have learned about your psychologist from your podcast or your website. Yeah. Is. Yeah. And I also, like, I think what was inspiring about your podcast for me, it still is, is the fact that you always emphasize on, like, you have to really kind of own your recovery.

    Natalie Mazer 44:43

    Right. And it’s and frankly, I would even add not be afraid to own your recovery because, for me, I’ve always like I think what didn’t help was I’m just like, oh, you know, I can take life, you know, head on, like I’ve been in difficult situations in the faster and, and I’ve dealt with them.

    Natalie Mazer 45:03

    And you know, when I’ve experienced loss like losing a loved one and things like that, and with that you just like you kind of surrendered to the situation you accept it, of course, it but you can do something about like, I’ve always felt like everything I could always do something about like I could say, Okay, well, you know, instead of being sad, and you know, maybe, of course, you go through the sadness and the grief.

    Natalie Mazer 45:27

    But like, you can also turn it into something more positive to maybe help others or kind of celebrate that person’s life or things like that, like so you could do something about it. I think what was different here was that I didn’t know what to do. And I didn’t know what was it, like so to me, I was like, well, I’ll just buckle in, you know, pretend everything’s good. And pull out of the room.

    Natalie Mazer 45:53

    But like, didn’t work. And I was just like because I went back to work, I go to virtual workers were still the pandemic. So I went back to virtual work. And my gosh, that was humbling. And of course, I, you know, put my smile on and I was just like, Okay, I’m just gonna perform.

    Natalie Mazer 46:11

    Because, you know, to a certain extent, you also, you know, my career was always very important to me, it was very passionate what I was doing, and, frankly, like, I could only still tolerate a very limited amount of time with my children, right? Because of all that audiovisual vision.

    Natalie Mazer 46:30

    Yeah, and here, I’m thinking, well, actually work sounds like a great thing to make me feel like I’m, you know, my life, I’m snapping back. I think in our culture, we also really celebrate this quick turnaround story and quick success story. And everyone’s well and, you know, happily ever after.

    What Natalie Mazer was thinking when she had a stroke

    Natalie Mazer 46:46

    And, I think that was no thinking of like, well, also, like, I don’t know how this is going to offset my family dynamics, my kids my this, right? So it was like, I gotta become productive for the family. And I gotta snap into it. Even though like now thinking about it an old life therapist. They were like, what were you thinking? Like, how were you even possibly functioning? You know, at work? And of course,

    Bill Gasiamis 47:13

    thinking, of course, you’re not thinking, of course, you’re not functioning, of course, you’re just putting on a brave face. And you seem like a smiley, happy-go-lucky person, usually. So everyone is expecting Natalie to come home, that Natalie to come to work. And when you do, the fact that the fact that you said and you look, the way that you look, the fact that you said you had a stroke means nothing to these people.

    Bill Gasiamis 47:40

    They don’t know what a stroke is. They don’t understand that it’s Hang on a second, Natalie had a stroke. She it was not a broken heart surgery. She’s not, it’s not a broken leg. It’s not six weeks, before you’ll be back to work. It is a very long time. It’s a big recovery. And we are as stroke survivors at the beginning, we’re just as ignorant we just as ignorant we don’t know. Right?

    Bill Gasiamis 48:05

    So yeah, and I feel like you have a lot of energy to give anyway, you’re, you seem very energetic, even. Just like you the way that you express yourself is very bright, bubbly, and energetic, right? So putting on your personality, just your normal Personality gives people a false sense of the situation and what happened and what it’s like, you know,

    Natalie Mazer 48:34

    one colleague said what if you back though, and I was just like, I was like, just play down? And I was like, yeah, like, I played it down, like, yeah, like, I’m back, like, I’m gonna get through this. And, of course, the first meeting of the day, I, I, you sit in the meeting, you know, kind of welcome back.

    Natalie Mazer 48:53

    And then you know, and then the talk about a few topics. And then a little later, I had to dial into a next call. And, actually, I asked to, like, maybe not have the camera on, right, because at the time was just like, even if I had the camera on, I would put a blank like Word document over it.

    Natalie Mazer 49:11

    So I wouldn’t visually overstate overstimulated. And so the second meeting, they’re referencing the previous meeting, and I’m just sitting here thinking, I don’t remember any of this happened.

    Bill Gasiamis 49:25

    Wow. Yeah.

    Intro 49:27

    If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. Like, how long will it take to recover? Will I recover? What things should I avoid in case I make matters worse, doctors will explain things but obviously, you’ve never had a stroke before. You probably don’t know what questions to ask.

    Intro 49:52

    If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation. To stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com, where you can download a guide that will help you. It’s called seven questions to ask your doctor about your stroke.

    Intro 50:11

    These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition, they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery, head to the website. Now, recoverafterstroke.com and download the guide, it’s free.

    Bill Gasiamis 50:30

    In stroke recovery, the strokes are over, there’s a race to get back to normal, quote-unquote, normal. And in that race to get back to normal, a lot of things are overlooked. And people feel like if I just go back to where I was before, then everything will be okay.

    Bill Gasiamis 50:49

    Because of this, we’re trying to convince ourselves that we’re okay and that it wasn’t as bad as it is. And perhaps we’re thinking about mortality. And we’re thinking about all the things that went wrong. And we’re thinking about all the bills and all that kind of stuff.

    Bill Gasiamis 51:01

    But at some point, I feel like you discovered that you were going about things the wrong way. So when you discovered that, how did things change for you? How did you then approach your stroke recovery? How did you do things differently?

    Natalie Mazer 51:19

    Oh, gosh, I went back, I went back on medical leave eventually. Right. I think, I think initially, I tried hard to you know, I actually when that happened, by the way, in the meeting where I forgot what happened. Yeah, I just got a stack of notebooks. And I wrote everything.

    Natalie Mazer 51:38

    And I would prescript what I would say in meetings and all these terrible, like crazy things, right? And it’s like, of course, I relied a lot on my long-term memory. And I was such a big planner. So I already had a lot of things pre-planned right before the stroke.

    Natalie Mazer 51:52

    So at some point, I was just so exhausted, because I would you know, fall asleep, you know, in the chair and all sorts of things and have my migraines. And like I was completely not functional with my family, you know, as a member of the family, right? Because there’s just not much energy to go around with like, the fatigue is really bad rind. Yeah. And, sometimes I’d have trouble speaking.

    Natalie Mazer 52:21

    So even when I wanted to say something in the meeting, I just kept my mouth shut, because I was like, you know, I think at some point, right, as those things accumulate, you’ll realize that and of course, then I went back to the attendee neurologist, and she said, well, well, for one would need like speech therapy, and that’s twice a week, and I’m just thinking to myself, I’m like, Oh, my gosh, I just came back, like how, like, there’s no way that my job would allow me to take two days to go through speech. So I kind of dropped that.

    Natalie Mazer 52:57

    I was like, Yeah, I’ll keep my notebook. You know, I’ll keep my notebook thing going. And, you know, it’s just like, a so it’s amazing that you just, you know, cuz I was thinking, I was like, well, maybe eventually, we’ll all just resolve itself, right? Because I don’t think we want to think about it that way.

    Natalie Mazer 53:15

    But I think eventually, you know, you’re listening to your podcast, and also trying to do some Google searches. And even simple things like I would even like Google, like, how do you parent after stroke, right?

    Bill Gasiamis 53:28

    Wow, find a thing.

    Natalie Mazer 53:30

    It’s like, it’s true. Like, I remember having a moment I’m just such a different parent right now than they used to be. Because I had a lot of energy like, I think you mentioned I just used to have a lot of energy where I could be very high functioning at work and I could still be very high functioning at home and get everybody ready and out the door for school and things like that.

    Natalie Mazer 53:51

    And here I am. I’m like, we started with my husband with like, Well, how about we have a goal of you, but this is after I, of course, I went back on leave the second time. They like that one of my goals was I get the kids ready and out the door for school. Like not driven them yet, but because right I couldn’t even be a passenger on the highway in the car. Yeah. So I got them ready for school once a week, right? That was my goal.

    Natalie Mazer 54:21

    And I remember just trying to coerce them and guide them to the door. And of course, they’re all chit-chatting at the same time. And I’m just overwhelmed. And I remember just kind of sitting down on the floor and bawling by the door. And it looked like all my kids ran running towards me like money. Are you okay? Are you okay? Like, what can we do? And that, to me was an epiphany.

    Natalie Mazer 54:46

    I was like, wow, like my old ways are never gonna work. Like, the new way is really how can we position it? Like we’re a team. I’m one of you guys. We all got to look after one another. And it’s done such a humongous transformation in the positive direction, with my children, and just like, they listen to me now like

    Bill Gasiamis 55:18

    Right, okay, really isn’t that amazing? So, you’ve stopped becoming the person who does everything, and you’re recruiting people to do their things for themselves. So that, and at the same time, you’re allowing them to learn how to be independent, and also not dependent only on mum for everything. Yeah, yeah. That’s brilliant. That’s an amazing outcome comes from desperation.

    Bill Gasiamis 55:52

    And it came from this terrible situation where you’re balling on the ground, but that’s kind of that’s like, you might not describe it like this. And it’s okay if I’m not describing in the same way. But what I’m trying to demonstrate is like, that’s almost a rock bottom moment.

    Bill Gasiamis 56:07

    And then from rock bottom, there’s no further to go, you have to change and you have to not, I can’t go back to being the way that I was before because it doesn’t work. And I’m going to end up being unwell for longer. And without me here, there’s no point not being. So I’ve got to change my ways. And an what an amazing lesson to get from such a potentially terrible situation, right?

    Natalie Mazer 56:35

    Well, with the work I also feel like I went to rock bottom. Before I decided to go on leave the second time, right then, and actually go and, and get actually, so they took me through this intense evaluation. And the person who was doing the evaluation, said, Okay, well, you have processing issues, you have short-term memory issues.

    Natalie Mazer 56:58

    And she says, I also think you have visual issues you should go see your ophthalmologist, and you will probably need visual therapy too. And then she said, I would also highly advise on a neuro-psych evaluation. And I was like, Oh, interesting. And I have to say, then, when I remember just hearing that, just oh my gosh, was it? So relieving?

    Natalie Mazer 57:21

    I was like, Oh my gosh, I’m not crazy. Because, like, so because we also recently moved before the stroke. So I didn’t even have a GP. And then eventually, like every GP I’d meet, and you know, when I say, Hey, I’m looking for GP because I recently just had a stroke and all this other stuff. They didn’t know what to say. And this one GP, said, Oh my gosh, I have another young patient who had a stroke. So she said, I understand you. But she thought that a lot of my symptoms were PTSD, not actual physical deficits.

    Bill Gasiamis 57:53

    Stroke-related deficits.

    Stroke saved my life

    Natalie Mazer 57:55

    So of course, it’s kind of interesting. I feel like in my journey, I almost went from like, physically repairing oh, by the way, actually, also stroke saved my life, because of that large hole in my heart, but the cardiologist said that one of my sides of my heart was already enlarged.

    Natalie Mazer 58:13

    So that could have only lasted a few more years. And that’s about it. Right? So, um, I kind of went from like, physically repairing my heart to kind of start healing my heart. Then eventually, like, you know, because my GP initially said before I went to the neurologist the second time, she said, Well, maybe some of this is PTSD. So I started therapy.

    Natalie Mazer 58:39

    And then it’s, I would have to say, I’m very grateful to my therapist because I feel like it’s my therapist who kind of made me realize that I really need to, you know, get it evaluated properly. And media, you know, should focus on my health, but not try to pretend nothing’s wrong and keep the wheels, you know, moving.

    Natalie Mazer 59:02

    So then I was, and I know, in the podcast, you talk a lot about the importance of mental health, and I couldn’t emphasize it more. It’s just like, it’s just like, we shelf so many things down our entire lives. But I think when we have to, when we, you know, end up having a severe trauma for us to move forward, even physical recovery, we got to process it all and it’s Yeah, yeah.

    Bill Gasiamis 59:31

    It’s a big, so people you hear about a lot of people who, who go into therapy, people who I’ve coached, who will say stuff like I it’s, I’ve had this massive burden on my shoulders, you know, and it’s like, okay, I have this massive weight on my shoulders. Okay. So even, even if it’s metaphorical.

    Bill Gasiamis 59:57

    How is that going to support Walking again, if you’re learning how to walk again, because you’re gonna have strict deficits, and you have a massive weight on your shoulders, metaphorically, it’s going to be harder to walk, just simply.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:12

    And when you hear people shift that and when you get when they get through that feeling of having a massive weight on the shoulders, oh, my gosh, I felt like the load has lifted or shifted, well, then they’re going to be lighter on their feet. It’s just a logical thing, and it’s going to support the recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:32

    So that’s why I emphasize mental health recovery. That’s why I emphasize the emotional recovery. The physical recovery has to be done together, maybe not at the same time. And with the same amount of effort on all of them, maybe at the beginning of the physical recovery gets the most effort.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:52

    And then maybe slowly as the physical recoveries, getting to a point where we’re seeing changes or things are improving somewhat, or you’re moving forward, maybe you can shift to the emotional recovery and start giving that some effort and some time. And then the same with mental recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:12

    And keep shifting the amount of time and effort you put on each one just to suit the needs that you have at that time, in at that moment in time. And then continue with whatever you need. But keep cycling through them all mental rent, mental recovery, emotional recovery, physical recovery, I’m coaching a gentleman now who’s recovering from a stroke, is missing half of his skull, because he had a brain hemorrhage and the brain was swelling.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:43

    So they wanted to remove the skull to let it swell. And then once it’s settled down, they put they’ll put the brain, the skull back in. And of course, there’s a whole bunch of fear around his condition, the fact that he’s missing half of his skull, etc. And he’s missing out on being outdoors. He was He loved the outdoors.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:02:04

    And anosike. He’s so angry, and he’s so upset that he can’t go outdoors. Well, that’s what they think they can’t that he couldn’t do. So the homework after that particular coaching session was to find the location where you’d love to go and see if that’s wheelchair accessible. And then do a little bit of homework to work out how you’re going to get there. how long you’re going to stay there, how you’re going to attend that particular area, that beachside area.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:02:36

    And then, how long you want to be there for how long you’re going to take to get home, and what you have to do to get home safely, etc. So prepare some drink, learn where the toilet is going to do all the things that you need to do so you can get out there. So that I know he’s having his emotional recovery, I know that without that, he’s going to be at home for an additional day thinking that nothing is possible anymore.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:03

    So even though he’s doing rehab, even though he’s doing all these amazing things, they weren’t certain about whether or not they could get out and about. So contact your doctors, contact your local taxi service, see if they’ve got a wheelchair taxi or something like that, you know, whatever you have to do.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:22

    And that small thing attends to a really big need in the heart, in the emotional center, to feel like you’re back in your space in your world where you love things where you enjoy things where you get happiness, where the dopamine starts to fire off with a serotonin starts to fire off.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:42

    And we’re all the feel-good hormones and chemicals start to fire off again, they help the brain recover. So that’s why you can’t go into stroke recovery with a heavy burden on my shoulder. Maybe you can start the recovery with the burden unshod or the heavyweight and shoulder.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:58

    But at some point, to make your recovery move further, you have to remove the heavyweight. And you’ve got to go to counseling. And you’ve got to speak to people that help. And your husband and your wife and your kids are not the people to go to because they are not equipped to deal with all the shit that they have to deal with.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:20

    As well as your stroke and as well as your emotional problems. They’re just not equipped. You have to seek help from other people.

    Natalie Mazer 1:04:27

    They’re already carrying double the load, right? Because you’re out of commission.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:32

    Exactly. You know, and they’re there for you, of course, when you’re having a tough day and you can say, Yes, I’m feeling terrible, like darling, I’m stuffed, I can’t do anything. Oh my god, you can cry in their arms, you can do all those things. That’s why you have to kind of also wrap it up for them and leave them the opportunity to have their own space and their emotional recovery and their own and their mental recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:57

    They’re thinking about your potential loss and thinking about your deficits and all your challenges. And they’re trying to pretend that everything’s okay. So that you can feel okay. But we’re all? Well, that’s why I keep saying we all have to take responsibility for our recovery, you can’t, you can’t expect. You can’t expect to go through something as traumatic as heart surgery and stroke surgery.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:26

    And think that everything’s going to be okay, you will only work for a short amount of time. And then, and then you have to do, you have to evolve. And I feel like that’s what happens to a lot of stroke survivors. The podcast is, there was a really tough time, there was, we came back and things started to change and move and shift.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:48

    And then if you give, if you have the opportunity to speak to somebody who’s 10 years post-stroke, as opposed to somebody who’s only one or two years post-stroke on the podcast, I ended up finding out how things have moved on 10 years post-stroke, and the acute phase might last for 234 years.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:06:12

    And then, and then there’s a shift that happens, and then the new body, that they coexist, in, that they exist in life, continues to move forward. And they continue to get back into some kind of a routine, some kind of a way of solving problems uniquely, some kind of way of being part of the community, getting fulfillment, but it all comes. But it doesn’t come by being passive. You can’t just sit around and wait for it to happen to you, you know.

    Natalie Mazer 1:06:48

    Yeah, but I think I know, one of the messages that I was hoping to share, too, I guess, based on my experience, like would the person who is always so hard on herself, right, and always feels like, like, I can, you know, I can get through anything like and let me just kind of shove it all down, and then they will all you know, get better. All right, because because I feel like it worked for me in certain things, right?

    Natalie Mazer 1:07:13

    And it’s and I think, interestingly enough, you know, how people say, they get advice from kind of their older self to the younger self. For me, it was the total opposite. As I was going through the bookshelf, I found a notebook from the time when I was in my 20s. And I was writing some poetry.

    Natalie Mazer 1:07:30

    And I read this poem, and it was like, it touched me so deeply because it was all about surrender. And what I realized was, you know, I might not have a hard time surrendering to circumstances, but I couldn’t surrender to myself. Like, I think that’s the battle, the internal battle that I was happening was happening.

    Natalie Mazer 1:07:53

    And, of course, I learned pretty early on that comparing the before and after is just like, oh, sure way to get to depression. But, you know, and I was like, Okay, I feel like I’m not comparing before and after, but still, I could not surrender to the new me, right? And there was a frankly, like, part of me was even kind of, like, sometimes I’d mentioned what I was going through. And then, of course, people don’t always know what to say.

    Natalie Mazer 1:08:20

    So it gets a little awkward. And then other times it just like, you know, you kind of put your face on and pretend nothing happened and you’re just, you know, happy-go-lucky, right? But that doesn’t work either. And it’s like, really kind of surrendering into myself and, and, and kind of learning to love the new me because I think we’re so focused on like, I was so focused on fixing, getting back to normal, like, the old, the old life, like kind of trying to fit into my old life.

    Natalie Mazer 1:08:52

    But I like I don’t know, at least in my, from my perspective, there’s probably no old life like there’s in and I was trying to, like constantly thinking to myself, like, you know, I’m always like, okay, difficult situations, there must be a lesson like, what’s my lesson? And I think my lessons were definitely to be vulnerable, for example, my old self would have never gotten on the podcast and talked about a medical issue or a difficult experience.

    Natalie Mazer 1:09:19

    I’ve gone through like, No way. That’s something that only I knew and my husband and that’s about it, like, potentially even like my relatives that know about it, right? And like so like doing something as vulnerable as opening up is just something that I realized that that’s one thing I need to start embracing more and, and being vulnerable, and how good things come out.

    Natalie Mazer 1:09:44

    So that was my lesson number one and my lesson number two, I feel like was also took me a while to figure out it’s really kind of surrendering to oneself, and learning to love and embrace. The new you Right? And, and it’s not easy to do it actually, I think I attributed to a lot of meditation and funny enough.

    Natalie Mazer 1:10:09

    So I’ve always done yoga but more as exercise. But meditation, I always knew I had to do it. And Bill like, no matter how much I tried, I just like I’m sitting there shore, like I’m pretending I’m meditating like no, my mind. Yeah, but I started with literally a one-minute timer and I tried to like, Okay, let me just try to get through one minute and then increase it more.

    Natalie Mazer 1:10:34

    And now I like I can get through the day without meditation because I need that to calm my, you know, neurological system. And it’s like, and I think when you meditate, you start, you know, you there’s like, you just opening that time for reflection. And I think, like, so my, my big takeaway is like, it’s okay to like, permit yourself to not be okay, and give yourself permission to, to even like, figure out who is this new person?

    Natalie Mazer 1:11:03

    Like, what are you like, what are your capabilities like, and don’t compare? Don’t judge yourself like, and also, like, I think what helped me is trying to pick something up to do that maybe I’ve done as a child, but I haven’t done it in my adult life. Because, because it’s because it’s just so soul-wrenching when you start to do something that you’re good at in your adult life. And now you’re like, oh, my gosh, like.

    Natalie Mazer 1:11:34

    So actually, as like, kids, I had a couple of years of piano. And it is the pandemic kit. I was like, so determined to start learning the piano with my daughter. And so something that I kind of made a point that was like, Okay, well, I have, like, my baseline of like, learning the piano was so low.

    Music therapy is a great tool for recovery

    Natalie Mazer 1:11:53

    But maybe that’s something I chip away at every day like I just do a little bit every day. And that’s been so amazing. Because when I look back, I can that’s one thing, I can say, hey, I do it way better now than before the stroke. Yeah, I just think it’s like speaking of that, kind of like self-motivating things, right?

    Bill Gasiamis 1:12:15

    Yeah. They bring you joy writes, music therapy is, has been studied, it’s a very well-known thing to help people in recovery, whether you’re participating in music by singing, whether you’re playing an instrument, whether you’re, it doesn’t matter how but music therapy is a very big, positive thing to help people in recovery from trauma from any type of health condition, right.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:12:44

    So you’re doing that at the same time, you’re also retraining your brain, you’re using Neuroplasticity, you’re gently starting to get used to, again, the auditory stimulation, you’re gently starting to get the visual stimulation, and the auditory stimulation happening at the same time.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:13:05

    So it’s like training yourself to get to a point where you’re, again, comfortable with experiencing optical and audio, stuff stimulation at the same time. And, and then physical stimulation, because your hands are moving as well, and you’re teaching somebody you know, so the whole thing is a real great recovery tool for anybody.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:13:37

    But for stroke, especially because you’re activating all these different parts of the brain, you know, all at the same time, and they are supporting each other, and they are rerouting and they’re perhaps bringing back to life neurons that have gone to sleep a little bit or a little bit not working the way they used to.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:13:55

    So it’s a great tool with regards to meditation. So one of the things that people struggle with meditation is when they do it, they do it with the head. And they think that it has to go a certain way. And they think that When thoughts come into their head, that it’s doing it wrong, it’s not necessarily doing wrong.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:14:15

    The trick is to observe those thoughts and just not make any meaning about them and just let them come in. Go. Hmm, that was interesting. And let it go away. And then go back to your breath. Just check in with your breath. Okay, focus on the breath, focus on the breath.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:14:30

    Now, another way to kind of enhance your meditation is to put your hand on your heart. And just to ask your heart, what do I need? What’s the thing that I need the most right now?

    Bill Gasiamis 1:14:44

    That’s interesting, okay, or specifically, ask your heart. What do you specifically need right now, at this moment, and then just close your eyes and with the background music or whatever you use to kind of get you through a meditation job? to listen, and just see what comes up, and you’ll be amazed what comes up.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:15:05

    And even if it’s a guided meditation, perhaps you set a before the meditation starts, you set a little thought about what you would like to get from the meditation. And it might be I’d like to get calmness, or I’d like to get this. So you set an intention. So that the meditation has a place to kind of do its work, rather than just generally meditating.

    Natalie Mazer 1:15:35

    Yeah, I found, like, doing guided meditations was a good way for me to ease into getting into that practice, right? Because I feel like, I don’t know, it was just always so hard for me to quiet my mind, then, like, initially, I was like, started like one minute of just focusing on my breath. And after that, when I was, you know, going beyond one minute, I was like, Oh, I think I need a guided meditation, right, just so somebody to tell me what to do so that I can kind of not go off the rails.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:16:09

    So if you’re up for it, let’s do a little bit of a test, I just want to see what comes up when I go and take you to this place. Right. So what I’d like you to do right now if you’re up for it. Well, the first time I’ve done this on a podcast, is just to put your hand on your heart. Okay? Right, and just close your eyes for a second. And just breathe. As you breathe, just ask your heart. What’s the most important thing for it right now? And just see what comes up. And just just let it speak to you.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:17:02

    And when it’s given you some information, just allow yourself to open your eyes and just come back to the podcast interview and just tell me, if you feel like telling me what I shared.

    Natalie Mazer 1:17:15

    I don’t to be honest, I feel like the first thing that popped up was just calm. You know, I think? Yeah.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:17:26

    So one way to specifically get the mind quiet is to specifically ask the heart for feedback. Interesting. And that immediately takes the internal voice out of your head and redirects it to the heart. And it allows the mind to not respond.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:17:48

    Because it’s not being asked, you’re not asking your head for feedback or information. You’re asking your heart. And if you do that your gut, your gut is going to give you feedback as well. If you go to your gut, and you say to it, what do you want right now, it’ll have a different voice, and it’ll take longer to respond. And it’ll give you different feedback from what the heart does. And then, if you went to the head and specifically asked it, it would give you a different response as well.

    Natalie Mazer 1:18:21

    Wow, I’m gonna, I’m gonna try that. Right.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:18:27

    So when you do that, that’s how meditation that’s when you when you’re doing meditation and set an intention to, for it to be a heart-full meditation. Instead of a mindful meditation, make it heartful. Meditation, you have a completely different experience.

    Natalie Mazer 1:18:49

    That’s interesting.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:18:50

    Just something to consider. For all those listeners out there who think they’ve by can’t meditate, and they can’t do it, and they’ve tried it and whatever. Everyone can meditate. Absolutely. It’s just a matter of whether or not you’re prepared to go to that place. And that’s the thing about the emotional recovery, you know, you need to be prepared to go to where it’s a little bit difficult.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:19:15

    And once you go there, it lifts the suffering from that space. Because you’ve gone there, you’ve both you’ve, you’ve faced it, if it is it a fear or a pain or a previous trauma, and part of going there is what makes it dissipate and not have a hold on your life so much anymore. So it has been, what three years since your stroke?

    Natalie Mazer 1:19:49

    About two and a half. Yeah.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:19:51

    So how do you see things moving forward from here? What does your daily life I Found Your Way Forward look like?

    Natalie Mazer 1:20:04

    Yeah, so, you know, I think kind of like, similar to the sentiment I shared of, like, I’m letting my I’m, I think I’m finally in a place where I’m being gentle with myself and giving myself the time and the space to, to discover kind of, to discover that new me.

    Natalie Mazer 1:20:25

    But, you know, for now, my goal has been to, you know, to be to play the mom role. And of course, I started a few interests, for example, I started painting again, and I mentioned the piano, I’ve been reading so much, I think I’ve been just really fascinated by psychology and mindfulness and, and kind of yoga and in that area.

    Natalie Mazer 1:20:50

    And so I’ve kind of, I feel like I’m in the state where I’m kind of filling, you know, feeding my soul. And kind of letting for the first time in my life.

    Natalie Mazer 1:21:03

    Whereas before I liked I always like almost always lived in the future, I had a, you know, five-year plan, 10-year plan, like even in my job, like I was, you know, leading innovation, so I had to live 10 years ahead, you know, even work and that was my comfortable because I always derived comfort in being in discomfort. And I feel like for the first time, I’m letting myself just heal, and kind of really naturally discover my new self.

    Natalie Mazer 1:21:33

    But in the meantime, I’m just kind of working through seeing how much I can regain. And I think because I was in denial for so long, I hurt my progress a lot. Right. from, like, actually regaining my deficits perspective, right? So I think it’s now focusing on unseen, how, you know, how much more I can improve. And, and also just kind of, you know, kind of, you know, loving the new me, and loving life.

    Natalie Mazer 1:22:07

    And I am strongly convinced that if I continue to be in on that quest for like, really feeding my soul and searching on always being open to what kind of arises, I have a feeling life will show me what my new path is and what my direction is,

    Bill Gasiamis 1:22:29

    I am certain of it, I am certain life is going to do that for you. The man that you met here today, or that is on the podcast with you now, was not this is not the same person that was going through life at 30. Age 3748. This is not somebody who I haven’t recognized I’ve got no idea who this person is.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:22:53

    It’s such an amazing place to be a podcast that I coach, and a leader in, creating the tools that I was missing in the gap to fill the gaps in stroke recovery that existed. I’m I see myself in the mirror, somebody who’s writing a book about stroke being the best thing that happened.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:23:21

    This is not a person that I know that I recognize that would have come out of continuing life the way that I did it 37 Before the stroke if it wasn’t for that stuff. I would not be in these types of conversations with people coaching people from around the world to create a community that makes a difference.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:23:43

    Like I was just so self-centered, I was just about my problems about all my thoughts or my you know, there was none of that I wasn’t evolved at all. But that’s why I’m certain you just following your heart and doing what you’re saying. And taking and putting you first and doing what gives you joy and brings you joy, you’re going to bring joy to the world. You’re going to bring joy to your family, you’re going to be a great example of how to live a life.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:24:13

    You’re going to inspire people beyond what you can imagine. And you’re gonna look back in 10 years and you’re gonna go wow, like Is this me because I have these moments. I pinch myself I can’t believe that I am, who I am. And the connections that I’ve made and the impact that I’m having. And it sounds like I’m bragging and I bloody am bragging you know, this was not my path, and what a path I would rather this than the other path that I was on.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:24:45

    So I’m certain that if you’re if you put yourself first and you do it from a way of from love loving yourself and learning about yourself and being curious and open, you just described the key to a successful life, if that’s such a thing, like, you know what I mean? Like, that’s that, that you know what it is, it’s a successful way of being. It’s gonna bring you immense joy and happiness.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:25:25

    And people around you will benefit, and you’ll be the center of love. You know, you’ll be an example of how life is another way of how life can be lived, you know, and it’s a life that’s out of your head. It’s not a head-based life, it’s a heart-based heart-led life and lifestyle. And then just,

    Natalie Mazer 1:25:56

    I love how you describe that. That sounds wonderful. Like, I never really thought of it. That’s true, right? I think before I was very much based on strict planning, you know, always on time, you know, pre-imagined every 100 scenarios and be prepared for it.

    Natalie Mazer 1:26:12

    And now it’s just like, just learning to be that was a big. And you’re right, I feel like I, like if I think about it, I probably feel like from a happiness point of view. Now, I feel probably closer to Carl was in my 20s. Then how it was, you know, in the last, however many years, right, yeah. Yeah, it’s, it’s very interesting. Yeah.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:26:46

    It’s so lovely to meet you and get to know you. I appreciate you reaching out and being on the podcast. I love hearing your story. And I wish you all the best for your recovery, your ongoing recovery.

    Natalie Mazer 1:27:00

    Thank you so much, Bill. It’s such a pleasure.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:27:03

    That’s a wrap, Natalie. Wow, what an amazing conversation. Thank you. Beautiful things. And I truly do believe it, you’re just describing the ideal way. To go about your recovery, you are. The book that I’m writing has been written because I interviewed 10 People who said the strike was the best thing that happened to them.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:27:34

    And they are all describing what you’re describing. And it’s, for some of them, it was immediately that they thought that for some, for some of them, it took five years, 10 years, whatever. But the reason, they’re still living with deficits, is they’re still living with all the things that stroke had done to them.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:27:54

    But the growth, the personal growth has been tremendous. And they, like me don’t recognize themselves. They’re completely different in the way they go about life. So what’s going to be interesting for you is to listen back to this interview, and hear yourself, speak about yourself. That’s gonna be cool.

    Natalie Mazer 1:28:18

    I have to admit, I was a little nervous, because it was like, Oh, I hope I don’t have trouble speaking or lose my train of thought.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:28:24

    You are perfect. I’m going to edit this is going to go live, maybe tomorrow the next day. So it’ll be available very quickly. So listen out for it. Reach out anytime there’s anything that happens, do you Just let me know? And I’m gonna let you get back to the rest of your day or night or whatever you got there.

    Natalie Mazer 1:28:44

    Before I let you go, though, I just honestly like from the bottom of my heart, just want to say thank you for your work. Like I think it’s just, you know, it’s really like, I don’t know, it’s just like, I remember I came across your web because like, I remember initially going to heart.org just to see like, you know, weather conditions.

    Natalie Mazer 1:29:04

    But like with processing deficits, like I remember, like, I probably like didn’t even like, though, the site was so busy, I probably even skipped most of the information was like, I didn’t feel like there were any tools there.

    Natalie Mazer 1:29:15

    But like, I know, just when I came to your site, and like, just by being able to listen to other people and their stories, like it really normalizes a lot of the experiences and it’s just like, it’s just so powerful because you feel like, you no longer feel like, Am I making this up? Is something wrong with me? Is this in my head? Right? It’s just like it. So thank you. Thank you so much for your time.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:29:43

    All right for the time. I don’t have a problem with time, I’ll tell you. So it was it’s exactly the tool that I was missing. And part of it is every time I speak to somebody, I have my therapy session, right this is this is what My guests don’t realize it’s a free therapy session for me. It helps all of us. So I get to meet amazing people and learn from them and hear the stories and all that kind of stuff.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:30:17

    And every podcast episode is roughly the same. But there is such a you, there is such a need for it, right? So I’ll explain something to you. So I started in 2017, like you when I thought I was good enough to do everything normally and go back to life normally. And I struggled, and I struggled, and I couldn’t get it done.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:30:39

    And I wasn’t putting out a lot of episodes. So it was only in the last, say, three years that I’ve decided to put out one episode per week, or as many weeks of the year as possible. And I’ve managed to do think 52 weeks for a couple of years in a row now. And I’ll just give you an idea.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:31:03

    At the beginning, maybe 20 people a month are listening to the podcast, right? No way, which is normal, which is normal. But yeah. But that heart hard for my heart to deal with only 20 people, how am I caught, you know, surely more people should listen to it. So last month, there were more than 8400 people who listened to the podcast last month alone.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:31:29

    So it has grown from 20 people listening per month, to 8400 per month. And as far as I see it all the episodes are the same. But the demand for it is only increasing. It has not stopped going up at all since the moment I started.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:31:59

    So I’m grateful that people want to be on the podcast and let’s face it, you know, it’s not just me doing this is a community that’s doing that collectively, putting their stories out and making a difference to every person. And this, and this is the beauty of me. Okay, because I brag about myself, but then I’m a co-collaborator with another 250 people.

    Natalie Mazer 1:32:28

    But what I think what you’re doing that’s so powerful, is you’re bringing people together. And I think just even like normalizing the fact that you are not over 65 Right? And that’s like, but it’s true.

    Natalie Mazer 1:32:40

    Like, like the that’s like the like I remember just asking, like in the hospital asking us like, like, how am I going to go back to my life like, and like she’s like, like, she’s like, well, just, you know, you’re walking like your arms a little numb, but it’s okay. It’s working. It’s like, if I was a retired elderly person, it’s one thing here I’ve got like, a career and three young kids like it’s a very different

    Bill Gasiamis 1:33:13

    and even even for older people. Yeah, they do. They aren’t tough. Okay, they’ve because they’ve had longer to be in their identity.

    Natalie Mazer 1:33:25

    Oh, for sure. I’m sure that identity crisis is maybe stronger than what we experienced.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:33:31

    It’s so huge, okay, because I don’t have a fixed identity, in the sense that I am. And then I label myself with my work, I label myself with all these things. I used to do that. But I don’t do that anymore. I am not the label that I give to myself, I am not who I introduce myself to when I go to a party. And what and what that means is that I’m like you said, I’m open.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:34:05

    Now I have the unique experience of living in the body that I’m living in right now in the way that I’m living right now. And as far as I’m concerned, not all of it is fun. But

    Bill Gasiamis 1:34:22

    I get to experience two versions of my body. And the part that gets frustrated about that is the part that compares to the previous way that my body was experiencing life. And, that comparative comparison makes me feel a little bit like I’m missing out at the moment.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:34:47

    But the reality is, I’m not missing out on anything. I’m doing more amazing things than I’ve ever done. And I need to keep reminding myself of that. And if we think about it Our version of stroke and thankfully our condition after stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:35:06

    It’s nowhere near the type of experiences that perhaps Stephen Hawking, the great physicist, was experiencing. But even in his most debilitated way, he had a tremendous impact on the world. And remained and became a famous physicist, and was leading

    Bill Gasiamis 1:35:31

    and was leading the way in his field. And all that he had that worked for him was his brain. Yeah. Right. So it’s like,

    Bill Gasiamis 1:35:44

    he gets to be a person in a body and live normally. And then he gets to be a person living this completely different version of how the majority of people on the planet live. And yet he has his biggest impact, then. Yeah. And we think that we’re struggling because we are living with a left side deficit, or whatever our issues are, that we create in our head that are just

    Bill Gasiamis 1:36:15

    stories that we tell ourselves, right? So Stephen Hawking’s quote, is in the first chapter of my book, at the beginning of the first chapter, it says, Do not be disabled in spirit, as well as physically.

    Natalie Mazer 1:36:28

    Oh, my gosh, is that was that something? He said? That’s so beautiful. Yeah. That’s him, you know, it’s so beautiful that you bring up that his, like, the big thing is his brain that’s like, my whole life, I always thought was like, Oh, my brain is my most valuable possession.

    Natalie Mazer 1:36:43

    And it’s like, because because he gets me through things, and it makes me successful and this other stuff, right? And then, like, to me, it was like, Oh, my gosh, having a brain injury, like that hurts so much on so many levels, right? I was. I was just like, and I think that was part of the reason why I tried to shove it down so deep because I was like, I cope like that.

    Intro 1:37:02

    Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals. The opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast are the individual’s own experience, and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed in all content on this website at any linked blog, podcast, or video material control. This website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gassy Armas, the content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing.

    Intro 1:37:36

    It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice. The information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances, or health objectives. Do not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose treat, cure, or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional.

    Intro 1:37:57

    Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of medical professionals your doctor or your rehabilitation program based on our content if you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition, please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional if you are experiencing a health emergency or think you might be called triple zero in Australia or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance all go to the nearest hospital emergency department medical information changes constantly.

    Intro 1:38:23

    While we aim to provide current quality information in our content. We did not provide any guarantees and assume no legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, currency, or completeness of the content. If you choose to rely on any information within our content, you do so solely at your own risk. We are careful with the links we provide however third-party links from our website are followed at your own risk and we are not responsible for any information you find there.

    The post Stroke Saved My Life – Natalie Mazer appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

    1 hr 39 min
  • Improving Outcomes For People With Previous Disability Before Stroke – Dr. Eva Mistry

    Dr. Eva Mistry is leading a project that aims to improve patient outcomes for people who had a previous disability before they had a stroke.

    Dr. Eva Mistry MD

    Highlights:

    01:16 Introduction

    01:46 What does Dr. Eva Mistry do?
    06:42 The gap in stroke recovery
    11:41 Pushing your limits despite the fatigue
    15:19 The Disability Grant Project
    23:54 The Turnaround time for starting a research project
    30:42 Empowering Patients and Clinicians through Shared Decision-Making Tools
    43:33 Required number of people to begin the study?

    Transcription:

    Dr. Eva Mistry 0:00

    Our plan with this study and I hope that more and more studies will kind of adopt, is to work with this wonderful group of our patient partners to come up with materials, and shared decision-making tools that could be used by clinicians and patients in a language that they can understand what the study means and what the implications are for that particular patient that is being seen at the bedside, right? Because these results are generated based on 1000s of patients’ data, but then how do you translate it to that particular person that you’re seeing at the bedside? All of the very important things.

    Intro 0:47

    This is the Recovery after Stroke podcast. With Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 0:59

    Hello, and welcome to episode 244 of the Recovery after Stroke podcast. My guest today is Dr. Eva Mistry, who is an Assistant Professor of Clinical neurology and rehabilitation medicine in the College of Medicine at the University of Cincinnati.

    Introduction – Dr. Eva Mistry


    Bill Gasiamis 1:16
    With a team of over 12 sites across the United States, Dr. Mistry is working on a research project that for the first time is specifically looking at how to better support stroke survivors who have had previous disability before they had a stroke. Dr. Eva Mistry. Welcome to the podcast.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 1:36

    Thank you. Thanks for having me.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:38

    My pleasure, thank you for being here, can you give us a little bit of background in the kind of work that you do in the research that you do?

    What does Dr. Eva Mistry do?

    Dr. Eva Mistry 1:46

    Sure, as you know, I’m a stroke neurologist at the University of Cincinnati, and I do clinical research and stroke, mostly in clinical trials in the acute stroke space, so kind of optimizing medical management after acute stroke, I’m also kind of involved in novel treatments, both medication wise and devices wise of acute stroke.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 2:17

    And the types of studies that I do range from kind of development, early phase development of these new treatments to all the way to kind of more late phase comparative effectiveness studies around increasing equity of, you know, providing these treatments to stroke patients with various co-existing kind of conditions and things like that. So, but mostly around acute stroke, therapeutic from early phase to like phase clinical study.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:55

    How did you become a neurologist in this field? What is the interest? How do you get excited to learn about this type of thing, and then help people who you don’t know who have had a stroke?

    Dr. Eva Mistry 3:08

    My journey to neurology kind of began very early in medical school I liked all my basic science subjects, everything related to the brain very, very much and that kind of I knew that I would do something that was related to the brain. When I was in training and residency in neurology, kind of stroke neurology, or vascular neurology was particularly interesting to me, because you could help people in real-time by a kind of being present and thinking fast, and acting fast could mean surviving with disabling deficits versus recovering from a stroke.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 3:52

    And it kind of called to me, and that’s why I kind of chose vascular neurology, it’s really good I was going to do big clinical vascular neurologist after that, and I planned to just practice in a hospital setting as a stroke neurologist, but I started dipping my feet into research right after some of the very large, you know, device based therapy trials came out in 2015.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 4:24

    My first kind of question was about management after that procedure, clinical management after that procedure, particularly related to blood pressure management. And so that kind of just dabbled through and I kind of did one study after the other in that space and then gained some methodologic expertise and then it kind of just branched out into various questions.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 4:51

    I will say that the one thing that has helped the most is kind of, in clinical research, you see patients with an open mind. And that just helps you consider your next research question because you identify the gaps in the way you practice and the data that you have and don’t have.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 5:12

    And so that has been eye-opening. In terms of what keeps me going in clinical research is just a sense of purpose thereafter to kind of know that the work that I do helps many people and not just somebody that I am seeing in real-time at the bedside at the moment. And so it just kind of knowing that I’m able to affect, you know, human health at large, that kind of gives me a sense of purpose to keep going and clinical research.

    Bill Gasiamis 5:46

    Yeah, it’s pretty cool. Do you have to be a very curious person to work in your field?

    Dr. Eva Mistry 5:55

    I think so I think as I had mentioned before, I think you have to have an open mind about where the gaps are and identify those gaps. And then definitely curiosity plays a lot of part. But then there’s more to it. You know, you can have questions.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 6:16

    But then there’s about finding somebody who finds your question interesting, and the way you communicate to them, especially funders who, give you the funding to do that research. So there’s a little bit of an art to it about how you write it how you synthesize your question and things like that. So there, there are a lot of layers to be a researcher. But definitely, curiosity is the first one.

    The gap in stroke recovery

    Bill Gasiamis 6:42

    The thing that you’ve mentioned a couple of times already is the gap, you talk about the gap, we hear about that from stroke survivors a lot, one of the biggest gaps that I’m trying to feel is the one where you have a stroke, you go to the hospital, you get patched up, and then you go home, that is a massive gap, because every bit of information that’s necessary is missing because we’ve never been here before.

    Bill Gasiamis 7:09

    We don’t know what to ask, we don’t know how to solve problems. And there seem to be so many of them, that we don’t know where to start. And this is what the podcast does, it kind of fills in a few of those knowledge gaps. And what I try and do is paint a picture for people listening to the stories that stroke survivors share that there’s a terrible situation that makes them end up in the hospital, then there’s a difficult time at home.

    Bill Gasiamis 7:42

    And then over time, there’s some form of turnaround and some kind of a recovery. And then there’s some kind of return to not normal, but return to life. And it follows that path. And it’s a very common theme. You see it for most people that the timeline is very different for everybody. There isn’t a specific I can’t say to everybody you’ve had a stroke that six weeks, or, you know, that’s nine months or it’s not like a knee injury or some other type of injury, like a muscle injury.

    Bill Gasiamis 8:19

    So people struggle to go through the process of dealing with the unknowns all the unknowns about stroke. How do we move on from this they probably have had a muscle injury or knee injury or some kind of injury in their life. And they’ve always had that beautiful timeline that they can recover and then get back to life.

    Bill Gasiamis 8:47

    And what’s hard is when you get back, you’re dealing with fatigue, and you’re dealing with all the trauma, perhaps brain surgery, and you’re dealing with all those things. And then somebody says to you have to exercise. And I know how important exercise is it is probably because I’m writing a book and one of my chapters is about exercise and the benefits of exercise.

    Bill Gasiamis 9:13

    But then, for me, exercise was never harder in my life until I had brain surgery. And then I had it was more important than ever but then also was the hardest time to do it. Tell me a little bit about exercise specifically and how it benefits people who are recovering from stroke.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 9:36

    I think exercise definitely kind of helped in the simplest terms, rewiring the brain to the maximum potential that you could have for stroke recovery. Again, as you mentioned, that potential looks different from person to person. So many factors affect it.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 10:00

    I think the biggest factors that affect everything from how it was treated in the acute phase to what happened in the hospital, what kind of prevention treatments are offered, and then what kind of rehabilitation therapies or exercises or speech therapy or occupational therapy has been offered for how long the doses, different kinds of experimental recovery therapies that were offered, things like that.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 10:26

    There are so many variables, social support, after stroke is an extremely important variable that affects people’s recovery quite a bit. What kind of caregiving and what situation do they have? So there are so many variables, and that’s why everybody is different in terms of their trajectory of where they go, and how they go there. But in terms of exercise, yes, it’s extremely important.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 10:55

    But we as clinicians also understand that, that’s hard, not just because of the maybe physical disability that’s been sustained as part of the stroke, but there’s a brain injury and brain injury causes chemical imbalances that in itself can cause fatigue and mood change as motivation changes.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 11:18

    And so it’s all kind of a part in parcel. So oftentimes, that our patients also tell us is that, you know, the fatigue is kind of out of proportion to the actual physical limitations, and that has a lot to do with how, you know, the brain is injured. That’s the bottom line.

    Pushing your limits despite the fatigue

    Bill Gasiamis 11:41

    The fatigue is out of proportion. I love how you explained that, because it’s so out of proportion, it cannot even be better explained. And sometimes there’s a really big price to pay. I remember, in my first few days of rehabilitation in rural Park Rehabilitation Hospital in Melbourne, where I’m from the one or two minutes of rehabilitation, ended up becoming half-a-day recovery or longer.

    Bill Gasiamis 12:12

    There seems to be a massive price to pay. And I can see how that can put some people off from getting back up the next day to let’s do this again. So it gets better, though it does improve, why is it important to get to the limit and then push beyond the limit? Or the barrier or whatever that is? Why is it important to sort of get there and do it, even though it’s hard?

    Dr. Eva Mistry 12:43

    Um, I would say that definitely kind of pushing the barrier is a first disclaimer that you should always follow your physical therapist and occupational therapists’ advice and don’t push yourself beyond what they say you should, because, as you said, it’s about consistency, it’s not about pushing that barrier one day and not being able to get up for next three days, it’s about, you know, consistently doing the maximum you can consistently.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 13:15

    But also to the stroke recovery happens, almost kind of, you know, exponentially in the first three to six months after stroke. And so I would say kind of pushing yourself to the maximum in that early phase and kind of getting the most off that early recovery period, is maximally important. And I know that that’s the hardest period as well. And that stroke is quite fresh and everything.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 13:44

    Everything is not frank, your life has changed, you know, in an instant. And so that’s hard. But also, that’s the kind of the right window to gain maximum benefits from what your therapists are asking you to do. So I would definitely kind of recommend following their advice, keeping at it consistently, and not overdoing it to the point that you can’t get up the next day and can’t do it again. But yeah.

    Intro 14:12

    If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. How long will it take to recover? Will I recover? What things should I avoid in case I make matters worse, doctors will explain things, but obviously, you’ve never had a stroke before. You probably don’t know what questions to ask.

    Intro 14:37

    If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation. Stop worrying and head to recoveryafterstroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you it’s called Seven Questions to Ask Your Doctor about Your Stroke.

    Intro 14:56

    These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition, they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery, head to the website. Now, recoverafterstroke.com and download the guide, it’s free.

    Bill Gasiamis 15:15

    Tell me a little bit about the project that you’ve been working on.

    The Disability Grant Project by Dr. Eva Mistry

    Dr. Eva Mistry 15:19

    I’m involved in many projects, but the one that I’m assuming you’re talking about is the disability grant. And that’s funded by the Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Institute, in the United States, the project is fundamentally just trying to understand the comparative effectiveness of a treatment called endovascular clot retrieval treatment to medical management for patients who have a pre-existing disability before their stroke.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 15:51

    And so that could be from many conditions, including a previous stroke, or kind of, you know, having a knee replacement or being in a wheelchair for other reasons and things like that. And so we’re trying to understand if offering this particular treatment to patients who have a pre-stroke disability, improves their outcomes after stroke.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 15:51

    This shouldn’t be a question, but it is, why it is because in stroke when we research new therapies, we tend to kind of exclude patients who have pre-stroke disabilities. The reason why we do it is because we want to measure the outcomes of these new therapies in terms of how much disability was saved in the long term.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 16:39

    And if you include patients who are kind of disabled at baseline, and you reduce the chances of understanding that if there was an improvement in function and things like that, that kind of translates into gaps in how we offer clinical care to patients who have pre-stroke disability.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 17:01

    And so the project is just trying to fill that gap with after generation of data to understand if we should be, you know, offering treatment to pre-stroke disabled patients and, in the long term big picture goal is to generate data so that the future researchers don’t end up excluding patients with pre-stroke, disability as a knee jerk reaction. But really kind of think about what outcomes and this population look like and how they can use this data to make sure that the stroke research is equitable for all patients in the future.

    Bill Gasiamis 17:41

    That’s a really interesting thing. All right, this is gonna sound strange, but maybe not to you because you’ve been doing some work in this field. But I never considered that this was gonna sound so bad when I said I never considered that people with a previous disability could have a stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 18:00

    Oh, my God, I can’t believe I haven’t said that. But it’s such a strange thing. Because you see people who are disabled, you assume they’ve had a stroke or something like that already. And that’s why they are physically disabled.

    Bill Gasiamis 18:18

    But it makes sense that they’re just normal human beings who are susceptible to stroke. Is there a possibility that people who are previously physically disabled and therefore in a wheelchair are at higher risk of certain types of stroke?

    Dr. Eva Mistry 18:34

    It’s a good question to answer. So in terms of data, we know that anywhere from 15 to 30% of the patients that we see in the emergency room with stroke have a pre-existing disability. So this is not a small proportion of patients that we’re talking about, it’s probably fully 1/3 of our stroke population.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 18:56

    But in terms of the high risk of having a stroke, it could theoretically be the case. I mean, a lot of these patients, like you mentioned, pre-exists before stroke, and that is why they’re disabled, having a previous stroke increases kind of theoretical your risk of having a future stroke.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 19:14

    So in that sense, you would, you know, some specific types of functional limitations may kind of increase that risk as well. For example, if someone is wheelchair bound and does not move their legs too much, they can form blood clots in their legs and they could secondarily have a stroke from those and things like that. So it is a bit complicated to answer kind of depending on what the cause of preexisting disability is. But yeah.

    Bill Gasiamis 19:41

    And what was the complication with people who were previously disabled? In including them in their studies in the past, what did people feel was happening? Did they feel that perhaps it was messing with the data or did it at a level of complexity that was too hard to deal with? Or how was it that they were being excluded?

    Dr. Eva Mistry 20:08

    I think it’s probably the latter. And the reason is that as I mentioned, the outcomes of these therapies were measuring a score called modified rank in the score, which is a score that goes from zero to six, zero is no disability. One is some two with kind of mild disability, three of moderate disability 4 or 5 (inaudible) disability, six is deaf, so it’s kind of a varied disability-centered score.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 20:36

    And so the research studies that we have been designing thus far, just kind of say that because our outcome is measured on the zero to six level score on what the patient’s disability level is, we’re not going to include anybody say, for example, has an MRS two or greater, or three or greater meaning mild or moderate disability, because at the end of the day, if we include patients who have a pre-existing MRS of three, no way at 90 days, their MRS is going to be less than three, which is what therapy is trying to measure.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 21:13

    And so it kind of adds a level of complexity. But what we’re trying to do with the study is kind of arm the researchers with the data of what the outcomes or relative outcomes of these patients with them without therapy looks like so that they can account for that in their research studies and say, hey, you know, if we include persons with disability.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 21:39

    Maybe we should use this alternate outcome measure for them or account for this kind of level of, you know, change or, or reduction in the effect that we’re we’ll see, but well, we should include these patients, because A, they are quite a bit of a significant proportion of the patients that would be eligible for research. And so you’re generating more generalizable results at the end of the day.

    Bill Gasiamis 22:07

    And you’re increasing the pool of people that you can bring into the study as well.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 22:13

    Exactly, exactly.

    Bill Gasiamis 22:15

    I imagine that’s difficult, trying to find people to bring into studies to give you accurate data, or to give you information that you can use to get some sort of an outcome is it hard finding people?

    Dr. Eva Mistry 22:33

    You know, acute stroke research is always a little bit hard. Because if you think about it, kind of probably patients are at the worst time of their life, their families, and it’s just kind of it hits you like right lightning, right, there’s no warning and then you’re in a setting in the ER, and you’re being seen by doctors that you have no rapport with a relationship with, you’re probably seeing these new faces and the first time.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 23:03

    Hopefully, I can say for the healthcare community in general, that we generally have the best interest of the patients that we’re seeing in front of us. And that’s why we offer research, but it is hard to build trust, it’s hard for patients to see this doctor whom they’ve never seen in their life, no matter how much they say that they’re saying things in their best interest.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 23:25

    It’s just hard to build that trust and consent to research studies and acute stroke research. So these are complexes, sometimes it’s kind of a life or death type of situation. So we understand that and so it is generally harder to enroll in acute stroke research studies compared to say, for example, cancer research where you have a pre-existing relationship with your doctor or clinician.

    The Turnaround time for starting a research project

    Bill Gasiamis 23:54

    So when you go through a process to come up with the idea for the study, then it gets funded. And then you recruit people to do the study, how long does it take to get to the end of a study like that? How much time and effort goes into that?

    Dr. Eva Mistry 24:13

    Every study is a little bit different. In terms of more stringent funders, for example, PCORE, or your NIH or things like that they require from researchers information that is backed by data on how many patients they expect they will recruit, say in a month or a year, and how many sites and so they require kind of a very well laid plan on how many patients how many sites at what rate and so with that math, it’s going to take us four years to finish the study or five years to finish the study or finish the recruitment.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 24:58

    And then there’s the follow-up period usually for a stroke study, that’s about three months. So, taking this into account, we had to build what we call kind of a recruitment and retention plan. It’s a whole kind of five-page document, we had to submit to the funders to justify that it’s going to take us five years based on this calculation, and things like that.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 25:18

    So generally, it’s the grants are about five years, typical grants are about five years. But of course, there’s no rule that you can’t get it done in, you know, a shorter period is great if you can get the study done in a shorter period than that.

    Bill Gasiamis 25:35

    Once the study has been done, and the research has been created, and you have some data then what happens, then? What’s, do you do with that data? How do you implement that into, say, a hospital setting? Or how do stroke survivors benefit from that?

    Dr. Eva Mistry 25:54

    Great, great question. So once we have that data, we conduct what we call statistical analysis. And that has also kind of plans for those are usually specified before you start to study to be most kind of robust that you will stick to what you said you were going to do. And so we do the statistical analysis according to that plan and find out if the treatment worked, or it didn’t work, or were there safety issues, things like that.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 26:26

    And if it worked, it didn’t work better in a certain population, versus the other things like that. Then we publish those results for the scientific community. And we put it up on the clinical trials.gov website as well for patients to click and see what those study results were.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 26:47

    All of this is done in a de-identified manner, meaning none of the patient identifiers are included anywhere, this is all kinds of bulk aggregate data published so that nobody can kind of go back and trace to a particular patient. So after all of that, as done, different things happen.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 27:09

    So the hope is that the clinicians will read it at least if the studies are published in high-impact journals that they will read it and they will mullet. A lot of times these results are kind of presented at large scientific conferences where a lot of stroke doctors and clinicians nurses and things like pharmacists.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 27:32

    And so hopefully, the results are kind of disseminated broadly to the scientific community that they will start offering to patients. But the funder that I was alluding to earlier, the Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Institute, and our study as well is kind of very keen on making sure that patients are partners in the study.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 27:53

    And so in our study, we work with three patient partners. One is a stroke survivor, one is a caregiver of two parents who have suffered from stroke. One is a person who has lived with a cardiac heart condition-related disability for her entire life to give us a perspective of what is it like to live with a disability not related to stroke. And what would you like to happen to you if you had a stroke and things like that? So all in all,

    Bill Gasiamis 28:25

    just a quick break, and we’ll be right back to the interview. As a stroke survivor, I understand the difficulties of finding the right information about post-stroke nutrition. That’s why I developed the course Five Foods to Avoid After Stroke. While most people are talking about what to eat after a stroke to support brain health and recovery, very few are talking about what you should avoid eating after a stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 28:49

    If you want to support your brain to heal and are curious about the five foods that may make matters worse when you consume them, then you may benefit from this course. In the more than five hours of interviews, we discuss the five common foods that cause inflammation in the body and brain how they could interfere with healing, and how they may make fatigue worse.

    Bill Gasiamis 29:10

    They’re just $49 This five-part series of more than five hours of interviews with full PDF transcripts for download. mp3 is for download, and videos will give you everything that you need to know about the five foods to avoid and why the modules include eight reasons to quit sugar after a stroke. seven reasons to quit caffeine after a stroke. Eight reasons to quit gluten after a stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 29:36

    Six Reasons to quit dairy after a stroke and six reasons to quit alcohol after a stroke. And probably that is one of the most important things that you have to and should quit after a stroke. It’s interfering with your recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 29:53

    Visit recovery after stroke.com/courses For this and other specifically designed short and easy To understandable courses that are made by stroke survivors for stroke survivors, once again, you’ll get more than five hours of content, all audio is available to download in mp3 format for listening on the go full transcript of all the content to take notes on, or read instead of listened to.

    Bill Gasiamis 30:19

    Presented by a stroke survivor for stroke survivors, also presented by a trained nutritionist and performance coach, you will also get 24 hours of access, lifetime access to courses purchased, and you’ll be able to interact with yours truly, in the comments section, go to recovery after stroke.com/courses to check them out now.

    Empowering Patients and Clinicians through Shared Decision-Making Tools – Dr. Eva Mistry

    Dr. Eva Mistry 30:42

    Our plan with this study and I hope that more and more studies will kind of adopt this is to work with this wonderful group of our patient partners to come up with materials then, and shared decision-making tools that could be used by clinicians and patients in a language that they can understand what the study means and what the implications are for that particular patient that has been seen at the bedside.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 31:13

    Right? Because these results are generated based on 1000s of patients’ data, but then how do you translate it to that particular person that you were seeing at the bedside? All of the very important things.

    Bill Gasiamis 31:28

    I’m curious about these types of studies. Often, I talk to people about studies, and they’re done by English people, English-speaking people. Do these studies ever get translated into other languages for application in other countries or for uptake by researchers doctors or patients in other countries? That

    Dr. Eva Mistry 31:52

    That’s just a great question. So in terms of the kind of the primary publication itself, it is usually in English, but this shared decision-making tool or kind of a, a kind of summary of results in lay language. In this particular study called Tester that I talked to you about, we have budgeted for translation costs to have those translated into common languages.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 32:26

    To help facilitate those bedside discussions, not just in other countries and the United States, there are regions where we have many non-English speaking patients.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 32:36

    We have chosen our sites to have representation of non-English speaking patients, and we have kind of budgeted for translation our costs and non-English language consent from translations we want those patients in our study to make sure that that it applies to all of those patients, not just English-speaking patients. So yeah, excellent question.

    Bill Gasiamis 33:05

    I know that in Australia, there’s not so dramatic amount of population where English is not spoken at all. I know, my parents, when they immigrated from Greece, in the 60s, they’ve kind of learned to speak enough English to get over the line. And there was always a now there are translators available, not that they’re involved in any studies or anything, but every time there’s been a hospital visit or a doctor’s visit, there’s always a bit of a language barrier.

    Bill Gasiamis 33:33

    And I feel like perhaps they miss out on some things that they would benefit from simply because they don’t understand the application to them. After all, it’s being explained by somebody who perhaps is not fluent in Greek. And that’s okay. Like, I kind of get it. Then I interviewed some researchers from the United States who are based in the border towns between Texas, and Mexico.

    Bill Gasiamis 34:03

    And that’s a completely different world there compared to what it would be like, for example, in New York City, or one of the other major capitals, and she deals specifically with Spanish-speaking people.

    Bill Gasiamis 34:16

    And it was interesting for me to remember that now that we’re talking about this and, and the problem, you’re doing this great work, and then and then there’s a whole bunch of people in a community who potentially miss out because of this lack of translation. Now, is it a new thing to have research data translated into different languages?

    Dr. Eva Mistry 34:38

    I would say, unfortunately, yes, we should have probably been doing this all along. I think that it’s happening more and more as we kind of start becoming aware of the patients and people that we’re leaving behind by not thinking about these things proactively and an ongoing Half of the scientific community sadly, yes, but I hope that we will do better by making sure that we translate our results in inappropriate languages.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 35:11

    So for testing, we have New York City, for example, Mount Sinai has a ton of this kind of diversity of the patient population, including various languages. We have Miami, a lot of Spanish-speaking patients, and LA, a lot of Spanish-speaking and other languages. So we’re hoping to kind of tap into that geographic and ethnic diversity to generate more equitable and generalizable results across communities to

    Bill Gasiamis 35:44

    Is it a blind spot, perhaps from the funder’s perspective, because you guys go to the funders, and you say to them, Hey, we need some money in this, okay, here’s some money for the research. And then they don’t say, here’s some money for everything else. after that.

    Bill Gasiamis 35:57

    So you’re limited, as well as it’s just perhaps something that hasn’t been considered because the data seems to be the most important thing. I feel like the scientific community hasn’t placed enough importance on just what we’re talking about in the decades beyond right now.

    Bill Gasiamis 36:16

    In, getting that information out, there seem to be a lot of people who love research, love learning, love discovering, but disseminating information is not necessarily their key attribute. It’s not something that they love doing. And it kind of is a, it seems to get lost. And there seems to be a bit of a blind spot in that space. Does that resonate with you? Or is that maybe me just going to a different tangent?

    Dr. Eva Mistry 36:42

    I think I wouldn’t have it, it’s difficult. So what you’re alluding to, it’s a science on its own. It’s a walk of science of stone, it’s called implementation science, of understanding how research results are, are taken by both the scientific community and patient community, and understanding the barriers for why not?

    Dr. Eva Mistry 37:14

    If not, and so there’s a whole branch of implementation science and, and their particular funders that are interested in implementation studies, the particular ones being per quarry, a lot of focus on how this will kind of get to the end users and, and not just patients and users can be, can be insurers, for example, right?

    Dr. Eva Mistry 37:38

    They need to know and understand what we did, why we did and what this means to make sure that appropriate treatments and interventions are reimbursed and paid for end users could be clinicians, there are many, many different types of end users, and there could be caregivers, a stroke, pop, you know, depending on what the study is.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 37:59

    So that’s one of the focuses of pakery. There’s HR HR Q, which focuses a lot on implementation science as well. So there’s a whole branch of science that focuses on exactly this four-stroke, I agree with you that we probably haven’t tapped into the potential of implementation science to the fullest, and we should.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 38:24

    But it’s, the research resources are limited. And so I don’t want to say that it’s a weakness of the funders or anything like that, but I think that that’s something that we should kind of try to think more about and hopefully fold into our study designs more and more.

    Bill Gasiamis 38:44

    I didn’t mean to say anything nasty about the funders, who of course, we’re grateful for them. It’s just in my mind. That’s kind of what it seems like but I’m, I’m speaking as an observer, somebody’s completely out of the scientific process. I don’t understand it at all.

    Bill Gasiamis 39:03

    Other than I benefit from it, There’s no doubt that I’ve benefited from the work that other people have done. In rehabilitation or brain surgery, I’ve benefited from all the things that have ever been done with regards to stroke and, and recovery from a hemorrhagic stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 39:21

    So I’m eternally grateful. I love it when I get to it to interview researchers, such as yourself. And I know that I know that there are challenges. That’s why I love to give a voice to people who have a study that they want to tell people about or give us a bit of an insight.

    Bill Gasiamis 39:40

    And also, why the other reason I love to interview them is because I think it’s important for me to make stroke survivors aware that they should become available for these types of studies so that they can allow this type of work to be done so that others who come after us benefit from that work, because we’ve benefited from the work that other people have done before us.

    Bill Gasiamis 40:06

    So I think it’s really important that the community is one. And we all benefit from that. And we all need to work together. So you’ve been doing this study now for a little while. How long has the study been running this study about, including people with previous physical disabilities, in understanding how they need to benefit from rehabilitation services after a stroke,

    Dr. Eva Mistry 40:36

    which were just getting started. And so just next month, and in a couple of weeks, we expect our kind of funding to arrive. And so we’ve been kind of working on what we call the study protocol, which is kind of the document that outlines exactly how research is going to be done, and what are the kind of stuff between the can and watch, they need to assess, and at what point, things like that. So that’s called the protocol.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 41:07

    That’s what we’re working on right now. Submitting to we call the Institutional Review Board, so IRB approval after, you know, submitting the protocol. And that’s what we’re working on right now. But April 1 is our start date officially. So we hope to start patient enrollment after all of those steps are kind of completed in the next four to five months.

    Bill Gasiamis 41:34

    If a patient can enroll early, are they able to put down their interest in this particular study to be involved in the study early on, or is that something that has to happen later,

    Dr. Eva Mistry 41:48

    this study kind of enrollment happens within just the first, you know, three to five days of the hospital stay. And so it is a pretty, you know, kind of a sub-acute study if you will, so patients presented the ER kind of get the treatment, standard care. And then after that, they’re enrolled in the study to assess what their pre-stroke level of functioning and quality of life was, and things like that.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 42:13

    Then we follow them after the discharge can collect some of the data on what kind of rehabilitation therapies they received, where they got discharged, and what the social support was after discharge. So generating some kind of robust data on on that and then evaluating what their functioning is, what their quality of life is, and 90 days after stroke, to then kind of compare those who got treated versus those who didn’t.

    Bill Gasiamis 42:47

    And how do you plan to enroll these people? Where do you find them? How do you bring them into the project?

    Dr. Eva Mistry 42:54

    So we usually enrolled them in the hospital setting. And so every hospital has a different workflow on how to identify these patients. But most commonly, there’s what we call a stroke code system where a stroke alert gets activated anytime a patient with acute or sudden stroke comes to the hospital.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 43:16

    And that might be the best way to kind of identify these patients. And then of course, the study team will how to then determine if they are eligible for the study based on what their baseline functioning was, and things like that, a couple of days into their hospital stay.

    Required number of people to begin the study?

    Bill Gasiamis 43:33

    And how many people needed to have the correct amount of people to start this study or to get the right amount of data.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 43:44

    Oh, I’m so we are a 12-site study. Every site has what we call a site pi, which is kind of a clinician who kind of leads the study. Every site has what we call a site coordinator, or the coordinator, who is the study staff who helps with the consent data collection, and things like that.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 44:04

    And so I would say at a given site, there’s maybe a staff off group on the ground strap of maybe three or four people who work on this study. And then there’s also the national team, in which I have three other PIs with me who work with me and a project manager.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 44:26

    But then the team is very big like we have a center where they take care of like all the imaging studies that happen. There’s the IRB, the central IRB, there’s what we call the Data and Safety Monitoring Board, which is made up of people who kind of monitor steady progress and safety issues that are going on that are independent of the study team, Principal Investigator, so it’s simple. It’s a big team.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 44:56

    It’s huge and then they’re patient representatives, as we talked about there. Part of our team as well. And then they’re clinician stakeholders that are part of our team to help us make sure that the end clinician end users will use the results that we generate and to make sure that we’re doing what’s meaningful to them and things like that. So it’s big,

    Bill Gasiamis 45:17

    it’s big, it is big. And it’s something that you people like me will never understand how big and complex it is. And it’s over 12 sides. So that’s excellent that it’s over such a broad space so that it can get people from a whole bunch of different backgrounds and different places. I liked that.

    Bill Gasiamis 45:36

    And then it’s gonna be a while before we have some feedback from this study, before we have some data, how long do we expect before the data becomes available?

    Dr. Eva Mistry 45:47

    This study is a five-year study. So it’s going to be a minute, before before. But hopefully, we’ll enroll faster.

    Bill Gasiamis 45:57

    Yeah, that’s a big commitment, hey, I appreciate you reaching out as well, and coming on to the podcast to share the information about this type of work, stroke survivors need to know that in the background, there’s a whole bunch of people working for our benefit, I find that amazing.

    Bill Gasiamis 46:16

    It’s something that I always say to everybody I interviewed who is doing research in this space. I feel like, it’s such a lovely thing that people do. I know it’s your passion, it’s your work, and you have curiosity. But as the end, as the person who’s the end user, and the benefits from your studies, I appreciate it.

    Bill Gasiamis 46:35

    And I want to thank you on behalf of all stroke survivors for doing that. And I know that you’re a busy person, you have a family life, and you have children and all that type of stuff. So I appreciate your time. And I hope to be involved perhaps, in the future, when you guys do have data or things that you’d like to report, you get in touch and let us know so we can share that information and tell people about it.

    Dr. Eva Mistry 47:00

    Well, thank you, I think you’re doing the real work. I think, you know, just making sure that the stroke survivors are informed about what’s going on in the field. Being that bridge between clinicians researchers and patients is important. And so so thank you for being that voice. We appreciate it. I’m sure the stroke survivors appreciate it too. So thanks.

    Bill Gasiamis 47:23

    Thanks for joining us on today’s episode. Now to learn more about my guests, including links to their social media and other pages, and to download a full transcript of the entire interview, please go to recovery after stroke.com and forward slash episodes. If you’d like to try the course Five Foods to Avoid after Stroke, go to recovery after stroke.com courses and get on board now.

    Bill Gasiamis 47:45

    If you’d like to support this podcast, the best way to do it is to leave the show a five-star review and a few words about what the show means to you on iTunes and Spotify. If you’re watching on YouTube, comment below the video, like the episode, and get notifications of future episodes. Subscribe to the show. If you are a stroke survivor with a story to share about your experience, come and join me on the show.

    Bill Gasiamis 48:09

    The interviews are not scripted, you do not have to plan for them. All you need to do to qualify is to be a stroke survivor or care for someone who is a stroke survivor. Or you are one of the fabulous people who help stroke survivors go to recovery after stroke.com/contact fill out the contact form and as soon as I receive it, I will respond with more details of how you can choose a time that works for you and me to meet over zoom.

    Bill Gasiamis 48:36

    Thanks again for being here and listening. I appreciate you see you on the next episode.

    Intro 48:41

    Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals’ opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast or the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed all content on this website at any linked blog, podcast or video material controlled this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill gassy armas, the content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing.

    Intro 49:15

    It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice. The information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances, or health objectives. Do not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose treat, cure, or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional.

    Intro 49:36

    Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional your doctor or your rehabilitation program based on our content if you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition, please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional if you are experiencing a health emergency or think you might be called triple zero in Australia or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance or go to the nearest hospital emergency department medical information changes constantly.

    Intro 50:02

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    Intro 50:18

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    The post Improving Outcomes For People With Previous Disability Before Stroke – Dr. Eva Mistry appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

    51 min
  • Out Of Body Experiences, High Blood Pressure and Stroke – Raphael De Leon

    Raphael DeLeon experienced a brain hemorrhage at age 54 because he neglected to take his high blood pressure medication thinking he would be fine.

    Instagram

    Highlights:

    01:10 Introduction

    01:48 How the stroke happened
    05:10 Using Siri to call for help
    09:43 Coughing helps when you’re having a heart attack?
    13:56 High Blood Pressure and Stroke
    17:46 The out-of-body experience
    26:49 The moment I met Jesus
    34:09 Waking up in a hospital room
    44:16 Going back to work after a stroke
    53:51 What about cognitive fatigue?
    1:10:25 The hardest thing Raphael ever had to do

    Transcription:

    Raphael De Leon 0:00

    Something strange. When I was in the bed, my wife says that, you know, the doctor said, hey, you know, his feet are getting like really rough on the bottom. And they started bleeding. And they’re all like, does he have a condition? And she goes, No, he barely walks barefooted, he takes care of his feet.

    Raphael De Leon 0:21

    And then they’re like, well, that’s strange. And then one of the nurses in there she goes, she said, hey, you know what he’s walking. That looks like his feet are wearing out from walking. It is crazy okay? it was crazy because my feet were worn out from walking barefoot, and I was lying on the bed. I was laying on the bed, and you know, nurses and doctors and my wife, they were all looking at my feet getting all worn out, all messed up, and I was just laying on the bed.

    Intro 0:57

    This is the recovery after stroke podcast, with Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after a stroke.

    Introduction – Raphael De Leon


    Bill Gasiamis 1:10
    Hello, and welcome once again to the Recovery after Stroke podcast, this is episode 243 and my guest today is Raphael De Leon, who neglected to take the medication that he was prescribed for high blood pressure. As a result experienced a brain hemorrhage age of 54. Rafael De Leon, welcome to the podcast.

    Raphael De Leon 1:32

    Thank you.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:34

    Tell me a little bit about what happened to you.

    Raphael De Leon 1:37

    What happened to me? I was at work, you know, a normal day. Do you want me to tell you the story?

    Bill Gasiamis 1:45

    Yeah, I’d love to know man.

    How the stroke happened to Raphael De Leon


    Raphael De Leon 1:48
    All right. So I was at work on a normal day. I’m an operations manager. So I was making sure that everything was, you know, it was Friday afternoon, you know, I was making sure that everything was ready for the next week. You know, and it so happened that I was gonna have the parking lot painted.

    Raphael De Leon 2:09

    So I was making sure we have an electric gate. And I was making sure that the electric gate had the proper code to open for the painters on the next day. So you know, having said that you know, I went to the back of the warehouse, there’s a guy that closes the, you know, in the warehouse, we are about 50 people and during the day on a Friday, so I went to go look for my friend Sergio one of the employees.

    Raphael De Leon 2:37

    He was nowhere to be found, I guess he had gone home already. So I went to my office. It took a breather, I sat down, you know, logged out of the system, and closed the lid on my computer. And then I put it in my backpack, but when I put it on my backpack, something was going on on my torso.

    Raphael De Leon 2:59

    There was a little tingling and I sat down I was like, wait a minute, what is this because, you know, usually when you get tingles in your body is because you’ve been sitting too long, and you know, your body reacts right? But this tingling it started, like, you know traveling from my arm to my foot and I was like, Okay, this is odd.

    Raphael De Leon 3:25

    So I got up and when I got up, I immediately fell, fell to the floor under my desk. And when I was under my desk, I was like, Oh my God nothing worked on the left side of my body. And, you know, I started panicking. Like, oh my God, what is this? This is crazy. I mean, you know, and I figured, oh my god, I’m having a heart attack. I have never heard of a stroke in my life. Didn’t know what a stroke was.

    Bill Gasiamis 4:01

    Never had a family member ever known anybody who had a stroke before?

    Raphael De Leon 4:07

    Never, never, you know, after, you know, like, I would say about three years ago, I was talking to one of my half-sisters in El Salvador. And she told me, that my father died of a massive heart attack. But before he had the heart attack, he had a stroke. But I didn’t know that until about three years ago.

    Raphael De Leon 4:32

    And you know, when I went back to the doctor, I kept telling him no, there’s you know, there’s cancer in the family. There’s, you know, heart condition, arrhythmia I mean, there’s all kinds of stuff but no one’s had a stroke. To my surprise, my father died of a stroke and then a massive heart attack.

    Raphael De Leon 4:54

    So anyway, I closed the lid on my computer. I fell on the ground and I was trying to reach for my phone, my phone, you know, my desk phone and you know, I couldn’t move, I couldn’t get up. And I was like, oh my god, what am I gonna do?

    Using Siri to call for help

    Raphael De Leon 5:10

    And then it hit me. I’m like my phone. I was charging my phone on my desk, my cell phone, and I go, Okay, that’s it. I gotta get to my phone. So I tried again, threw all kinds of paper that were on my desk on the floor. And I couldn’t I couldn’t get to the phone. So then it hit me. I’m like, you know, Hey, Siri, you know?

    Raphael De Leon 5:42

    So, I use Siri.

    Raphael De Leon 5:44

    (Siri) Okay. Nevermind. But anyway, I said, Hey, you know, call 911. And I don’t want Siri to call 911 right now. Hold on, but anyway. So, I asked her to call 911. And then I got a computer answering and the computer said that it didn’t you know, this system does not take calls from Siri. And I was like, Oh, crap, you know, and then I called my wife and my wife, girlfriend at the time I married her after.

    Raphael De Leon 6:34

    I called and she was charging her phone. She was cooking and she had her phone on the bed. She was charging her phone. So this is what she told me right? And then I called one of my daughters. I have two daughters.

    Raphael De Leon 6:52

    I called her and Siri couldn’t make the call because I have a sister named Maritza and I was calling Marissa who is my daughter. Cancel Siri. Hold on okay? Sorry.

    Raphael De Leon 7:14

    So I was trying to call Marissa and Siri kept calling Maritza and then I said cancel. And then I called my youngest daughter and I you know, I said hey you know, Siri called Nicolette, who was my youngest daughter. And she picked up on the first ring.

    Raphael De Leon 7:32

    And I told her, Hey, mamas, you know, don’t freak out. But I’m on the floor. And I can’t move. And she’s like, What do you mean, you can’t move? I go, I don’t know. I think I’m having a heart attack. Because I can’t move, I can only roll on the floor. And but I can’t move. I can’t get up. Can you come and get me?

    Raphael De Leon 7:54

    She told me what do you mean, come and get you woman to call 911? And I go Yeah, call 911 and tell them I’m on the floor. I’m under my desk, and I can’t move. And so she called. That was around 6:45 around 8 pm? Or I think it was 6:45. Maybe it was you know, I was on the floor rolling I don’t know. The last time I looked at my phone it was 6:45.

    Raphael De Leon 8:27

    Maybe I rolled on for a long time. But you know, the paramedics came around 8 pm They knocked on my glass window. My office has a you know, a window in the back the whole wall is a window. Then they told me Sir can you move?

    Raphael De Leon 8:50

    And I go, No, I can’t. And then they asked me how do we get in? And I said I don’t know break something? Because it’s a it’s a high-security office, right? So they ended up going around and they were on the receiving docks of the warehouse. They forced their way in one of the roll-up doors. And then they came in. Luckily the office one of the girls in the office left one of their windows open and that’s how they got into the office.

    Bill Gasiamis 9:24

    How dramatic man I can’t believe what you had to go through to get somebody to help you. It’s dramatic. I can’t believe that the phone doesn’t allow you to call emergency services.

    Raphael De Leon 9:36

    Yeah, 911 does not take calls from Siri.

    Bill Gasiamis 9:42

    That’s weird.

    Coughing helps when you’re having a heart attack.

    Raphael De Leon 9:43

    It happened to me, but anyway, so well I was on the floor waiting for the paramedics and I forgot to mention that. I kept coughing because I watch TV, and I’m sort of a couch potato, but.

    Bill Gasiamis 10:06

    I know what you’re gonna say, cough it’s a good thing because it could help you if you’re having a heart attack, right?

    Raphael De Leon 10:14

    Yeah. Okay. So back in the day, I was watching this. I forgot what program it was, but it was red fox red fox was being interviewed by somebody. And then, you know, Red Fox had a heart attack, and he was on the floor. And then he said that his best friend was a cardiologist.

    Raphael De Leon 10:33

    And he told him, keep coughing, because that brings oxygen to your brain. And then you can, you can wait until help arrives. So I remember that when I was on the floor, and I kept coughing and coughing and coughing. So when the paramedics came, I was coughing, and they were like, are you alright?

    Raphael De Leon 10:50

    And then I go, Yeah, I mean, I can’t move. I don’t know what I have, then they said, Oh, and then you know, and then I stopped coughing because I’m like, Okay, finally, someone that’s gonna help me. And then they took me to the hospital, you know, and I was alert until the minute that, you know, they were deciding, what they were going to do with me until about midnight, I was awake.

    Bill Gasiamis 11:22

    What was the cause of the stroke?

    Bill Gasiamis 11:26

    Just a quick break, and we’ll be right back to the interview. As a stroke survivor, I understand the difficulties of finding the right information about post-stroke nutrition. That’s why I developed the course Five Foods to Avoid After Stroke. While most people are talking about what to eat, after a stroke to support brain health and recovery, very few are talking about what you should avoid eating after a stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 11:49

    If you want to support your brain to heal and are curious about the five foods that may make matters worse when you consume them, then you may benefit from this course. In the fun five-series of interviews, you’ll hear about what foods not to eat after a stroke. But most importantly, why not from a qualified nutritionist Stacy Turner, and performance coach Matthias Turner?

    Bill Gasiamis 12:12

    In the more than five hours of interviews, we discuss the five common foods that cause inflammation in the body and brain how they could interfere with healing, and how they may make fatigue worse, for just $49.

    Bill Gasiamis 12:26

    This five-part series of more than five hours of interviews with full PDF transcripts for download, mp3s for download, and videos will give you everything that you need to know about the five foods to avoid and why the modules include eight reasons to quit sugar after a stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 12:45

    Seven reasons to quit caffeine after a stroke, eight reasons to quit gluten after a stroke, six reasons to quit dairy after a stroke, and six reasons to quit alcohol after a stroke. And probably that is one of the most important things is that you have to and should quit after a stroke. It’s interfering with your recovery. Visit recoveryafterstroke.com/courses.

    Bill Gasiamis 13:10

    For this and other specifically designed short and easy-to-understand courses that are made by a stroke survivor for stroke survivors. Once again, you’ll get more than five hours of content, all audio is available to download in mp3 format for listening to the full transcript of all the content to take notes on or read instead of listening to presented by a stroke survivor four stroke survivors.

    Bill Gasiamis 13:37

    Also presented by a trained nutritionist and performance coach, you will also get 24 hours of access and lifetime access to courses purchased. And you’ll be able to interact with yours truly, in the comments section. Go to recoveryafterstroke.com/courses to check them out now.

    High Blood Pressure and Stroke – Raphael De Leon

    Raphael De Leon 13:56

    It was a mixture of I have high blood pressure and I used to take my medicine on and off. You know I thought hey, I’m exercising. I you know I’m lifting weights I I’m you know I’m working out and eating healthy but I was overweight so I figure No nothing’s gonna happen to me.

    Raphael De Leon 14:20

    You know, I don’t need the high blood pressure medicine. So, I will stop for a while and then I will start taking it. So it was I wasn’t taking care of myself okay? And finally, it got to me, I guess I had an aneurysm and a blood vessel burst and then had a major bleed.

    Raphael De Leon 14:48

    You know, when I woke up from a 22-day coma, you know, the doctors were you know, they were telling me as soon as I was able to talk to people that you know that I was some sort of miracle because no one. My girlfriend, my wife now, she fought the doctors. She fought the surgeons because they didn’t want to operate on me. They said, Oh, it’s useless, you know, no one survives this.

    Bill Gasiamis 15:15

    Wow. So you went to the hospital? You were awake the entire time until really late in the evening. And then you fell into a coma?

    Raphael De Leon 15:26

    The coma was induced, because they said that they needed my brain to rest. And they were going to do an operation, you know? The craniotomy, and they needed for, you know, because my, my brain was swollen from the bleeding, and it was a major bleed.

    Raphael De Leon 15:54

    And they said, you know, and they kept telling my wife, you know, they kept saying, you know, he’s is not going to survive, you know, we’re going to do it because, you’re pushing us, you know, she was gonna have me transferred to UCLA. I was in Presbyterian Hospital.

    Raphael De Leon 15:54

    And she was going to have me transferred to UCLA because they didn’t want to do the operation. So they finally said, they agreed, they said, Okay, fine, we’re gonna operate him, but you know, just so you know, that he might die, and, you know, on the OR, and she said, I’ll take those chances.

    Raphael De Leon 16:37

    And, and then the doctor said, okay, just so you know, the survival percentage is very low. I don’t know what percentage that was, I think it was between 10% and 20%. And, she said, don’t worry about it.

    Raphael De Leon 16:55

    I already asked God to bless your hands. And if she said that, the doctor rolled his eyes and he said, like, I’ve been doing this for 30 years, Lady and I don’t need God, and she goes, Okay, that’s fine.

    Bill Gasiamis 17:09

    So I asked him anyway.

    Raphael De Leon 17:10

    So 22 days later, I woke up, you know, I woke up I was in a room. First of all, I had, the craziest experience while I was in a coma, I went into a different place. You know, but that’s another story.

    Bill Gasiamis 17:34

    No, let’s talk about it. Let’s talk about it Rapha, tell me where did you go, man, what did you see?

    Raphael De Leon 17:39

    Where did I go? Okay.

    Bill Gasiamis 17:43

    If you don’t mind talking about it, that is?

    Raphael De Leon had an out-of-body experience

    Raphael De Leon 17:46

    Oh, no, of course not. I don’t mind. So, I know, it was 22 days, and they said that I was out. But in the place that I went to that I traveled to. It was months. It was months, I wouldn’t go to sleep. But it all started. Like you know, like waking up every morning. And walking and walking and walking.

    Raphael De Leon 18:19

    And I was in the streets of Los Angeles. And, all the buildings were at the same height. No, no building taller than I would say 10 storeys high they were all brick buildings. And I knew the place and I walked and I walked for miles. And, I was barefooted and I don’t like working barefoot, to me, it’s gross.

    Raphael De Leon 18:48

    I just don’t care for it. You know, I always have to have shoes on even when I go to the beach. I have my water, you know, my water shoes, I don’t like the feeling of the ground. You know? I mean, that’s just me. But anyway, so I was walking on the streets of Los Angeles right, day after day after day.

    Raphael De Leon 19:07

    And I would walk for my I mean for like, I will take like 30 blocks at a time and I always ended up on the same spot. And I will be looking around and looking at the buildings and I’m like, Oh my God, I know this place. So why can’t I get back to where I’m supposed to go? So I walk and walk and walk and you know, something strange.

    Raphael De Leon 19:30

    When I was in the bed, my wife says that, you know, the doctor said, hey, you know, his feet are getting like really rough on the bottom. And they started bleeding. And they’re all like, does he have a condition? And she goes, No, he barely works barefooted he takes care of his feet.

    Raphael De Leon 19:51

    And then they’re like, well, that’s strange. And then one of the nurses in there she goes, she said, hey, you know what he’s walking. He’s you know that looks like his feet are wearing out from walking.

    Bill Gasiamis 20:05

    What the hell man? What an amazing story.

    Raphael De Leon 20:12

    It is crazy, okay. It was crazy because my feet were worn out from walking barefooted and I was lying on the bed. I was laying on the bed, and you know, nurses and doctors and my wife, they were all looking at my feet getting all worn out, all messed up. And I was just lying on the bed.

    Raphael De Leon 20:36

    But anyway, so that went on, I walked for many, many, many, many days, I would say months, I would wake up. Or I would like to start up every time. Like I said, it felt like waking up every morning. And I would look at the sky, the sky was brown, brownish, like a sepia color on a photograph.

    Raphael De Leon 21:03

    And the sun was always like, it was always like an afternoon. It was never morning. I looked into the sky, but there was no sign of the sun. It was a bright, brownish day. And I would walk every day. And I wanted to get back home.

    Raphael De Leon 21:24

    And I remember having this you know having a stroke or having something right. Well, know what a stroke was. I remember having a heart attack, but I was on the floor. And I was like, oh my God is this hell, I don’t want to say it. But I thought you know if I say it, it can become hell. But I will look up and I will look everywhere. There were no sounds of anything. It was all mute. But I would walk and walk and walk and try to get back home.

    Intro 21:57

    If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. How long will it take to recover? Will I recover? What things should I avoid? In case I make matters worse, doctors will explain things. But, if you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask.

    Intro 22:21

    If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you it’s called Seven Questions to Ask Your Doctor about your Stroke.

    Intro 22:41

    These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition, they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery. Head to the website now, recoveryafterstroke.com, and download the guide. It’s free.

    Raphael De Leon 23:01

    And then one day I noticed that there was another road. And I and I looked at the road and I was like okay, that’s different. That’s a different road. They haven’t seen that road before. So I walked through that road. And then at the very end of the road, I saw something like looked like Dodger Stadium like the baseball you know, stadium.

    Raphael De Leon 23:28

    Like, what is that thing, so I walked towards it on the way there, you know, it was a long straight growth, too, to the stadium, right? And I saw this guy with long hair going across the road and, and there was like it was a truck, but it was not a truck. It was like one of those tandem trailers, you know, with a fifth wheel up and down like a little hill.

    Raphael De Leon 24:01

    And, and the guy that was going across the road, he was, you know, he was picking up people and telling them to get on the truck. And I looked at him and you know, I asked him you know, I looked at him and I was like, Oh, we’re weird.

    Raphael De Leon 24:15

    All right, you know, but this is the first time that I actually saw people and so I just kept going to Dodger Stadium or whatever look like that they’re saying so when I got there when I got the place that it looks something like I don’t know if you remember MySpace, you know, the program MySpace, or in the background.

    Raphael De Leon 24:42

    It looked like one of those MySpace backgrounds, you know, and there was music and in the guide that it was like, like a swap meet like, you know, a place where they sell knickknacks and stuff. And then I I looked at the guy and they look like my balls, right? And I was like, what was he doing in here? But, but I didn’t talk to the guy.

    Raphael De Leon 25:06

    And there were two gypsies. And they had like this, you know, this stand and they have pictures on the stand. And then I, one of them approached me, she goes, what do you need? And I said, You know what? I’m trying to get back home, but I don’t know how. And this is the first time that I’m talking to anyone.

    Raphael De Leon 25:29

    And she goes, she goes really, and she goes, wants to take something from the, from the store. So I just went and grabbed two pictures of, you know, the Virgin Mary. Okay. And then I looked at them, and I gave them to her. And then she goes, Oh, okay. And then she gave me a marker.

    Raphael De Leon 25:50

    When she gave me a marker, she said, Just break something in the back of the picture. I go, What do you want me to write and she was anything anything that came to mind. So I, I, you know, I flipped it picture. And then I wrote my name and my middle. My wife’s name on it. Right, Ralph. And then on the bottom, Cindy.

    Raphael De Leon 26:12

    And then I gave the pictures back where I only brought in one with pictures. She looked at the picture. And then she goes, Oh, you still have business up there. You go, oh, business up there. Where’s up there? And she goes, Oh, the place where you need to go, you know, you saying you say that you want to go back home.

    Raphael De Leon 26:30

    That’s where you need to go. And I go, Yeah, how do I get back there? And she will see that guy over there. And then she pointed out that the guy told you the crazy guy that was running across the road, from you know, on one end of the street to you know, across the street, from one side to the next, and picking up people put him in the truck.

    The moment Raphael De Leon met Jesus

    Raphael De Leon 26:49

    And then I go, okay, so what do I tell him? She was just showing the picture. From the picture, go tell him that you need to go back home from the picture. I go okay, thanks. So I went down the road again. Stopped the guy, and the guy smiled at me. It was like, you know, the greatest smile in the world. And I was like, Oh my God, you know, that’s cool.

    Raphael De Leon 27:14

    This guy is cool. Right? And he had a face. Like, I’d seen him before, you know, this greenish, brownish eyes, you know, hazel eyes. And for some reason, I trusted the guy. And I looked at him and I was like, oh, yeah, they told me that that I should ask you, you know, the Gypsy back there told me that I should ask you, I should show you this.

    Raphael De Leon 27:39

    And you will tell me how to get back home. Then and then he looked at the picture. And then he goes, You know what? You still have business up there. And I go where is up there? He told me that I had business out there. But where’s up there? I just want to go home. He goes tell you what, just get on my truck and see that hill, but then he puts it down on the road. And there were no more buildings. You know, it was just the hills. You will see that hill over there.

    Raphael De Leon 28:10

    He pointed at a little hill. He goes, I’m gonna take you halfway I’m gonna drop you off on that hill over there. And, you know, and then you can go back home. I’ll tell you how to get back home. I’m like okay, so I got on this truck. And when I got on the truck, I fell to the floor.

    Raphael De Leon 28:34

    You know, I was like, what a dummy, right? And then, he just looked at me and picked me up. He just picked me up from you know, from up there way up there and I was freaked out because I was like, Oh my God, this frickin guy is strong. And I realized, man, how did his arm get so long to pick me up from the floor, but didn’t think anything of it.

    Raphael De Leon 29:00

    When I was telling one of the guys, you know, and after I woke up from my coma, I told him the story about this one guy. And then he’s very religious. And then he goes, Dude, you don’t realize who that was? And I went no. And then he goes to your stupid, don’t you know that you met Jesus?

    Raphael De Leon 29:21

    And then I, you know, I was like, Oh, my God, my whole life. I said, you know, we used to kid around when we were kids. What if you saw Jesus one day, what would you tell him? And I had all these things in my head. I would tell him this, I would ask him this, I would have that.

    Raphael De Leon 29:39

    And then when, you know when Peter, my friend, you know was telling me that that I had seen Jesus. I was like, Oh, I said, How do I get back home? You know, that’s all I had in my head. I had all these things to tell him and that’s what they said.

    Bill Gasiamis 29:58

    But that sounds like it was your mission. Any way. And it sounds like everyone was on board with your mission and your wife was on board. Everyone was on board. So I think you asked him the right question Yeah, yes. That’s an amazing story, from the perspective of you you’re telling it so vividly.

    Bill Gasiamis 30:20

    You’re explaining it in a way that’s so dramatic. You’re a great storyteller. And it’s engaging. It’s lovely to hear. And, you know, whatever it is, what it is to you, whatever it means, it seems like it means a lot. And if it helped you get back to where you are right now. I think that’s an amazing thing, man.

    Raphael De Leon 30:44

    Yeah. So he puts me back on the truck, right? But somebody’s back on the truck. And then, you know, he starts going, we get to the Hill, he goes, Okay, this is where you’ll get off. My go, okay. And then he said, he said to me, you know, it was a fork, he goes, see that road right there, and it was a straight road.

    Raphael De Leon 31:10

    He goes, you’re gonna walk 22 Miles 20, exactly. 22 miles. And when you get to the very end, that’s where you need to go. Do not look to the sides. Because there’s gonna be a lot of a lot of distractions. And I’m sorry, I forgot to mention when I was in Dodger Stadium, I had the same thing. You know?

    Raphael De Leon 31:34

    Yeah, my wife, my brother, who passed away in 2005, came and told me, Hey, let’s go, let’s go down there because it’s happening. And they were having a party, you know, downstairs on the ground, and Dodger Stadium and, and then he had a couple of friends who passed away too. And I looked at both of them, and I looked at all three of them.

    Raphael De Leon 31:58

    And I’m like, no matter the schedule, they’re not gonna follow this guy. Because if I go down there, I’d say I’m dead. But, and then when I got When, when, when this guy was telling me to not look to the sides, because there were gonna be a lot of plantations, just to work 22 Straight miles.

    Raphael De Leon 32:17

    I was like, okay, so I started walking, he, he left, went on the other road. And then, and then I started walking. And the first thing that I saw that I that I did was look to the sides, because, you know, people like to disobey. And then it sounded like parties were going on.

    Raphael De Leon 32:36

    So when I looked to the left, you know, all the guilty pleasures of in the world were happening. And it was very tempting. And, you know, I wanted to join in and I was like, Oh, wow, this is cool. I look to the right, same, the same thing. But then I remember, this guy told me to work 22 miles.

    Raphael De Leon 32:59

    And at the end of the road, I was going to find, you know, my way home. I said, Forget it. I’m like, I’m not joining, I’m not going. So I walked and walked and watched what seemed like an eternity, you know, days, I walked that road. And finally, when I got to the very end, there was a chapel, a very illuminated chapel. It was bright, almost blinding.

    Raphael De Leon 33:25

    And I looked at it, and I was I stopped, and I thought, oh, no, heck, no, I’m not going in there. Because I don’t know. If you remember when they say if you see a white light, don’t go in it, because that’s. But then, but then the guy said to go, you know, to go to go to the very end, because that was my way home.

    Waking up in a hospital room

    Raphael De Leon 33:49

    So I just looked at it. And then the doors were wide open all doors, like, you know, like 12 feet tall, or, I don’t know, 20 feet tall, really, really tall doors. But they were open. So I went into the chapel. And then the chapel was all illuminated, it was all bright. And then I looked and I was like, Oh God, what is this? What is this place?

    Raphael De Leon 34:16

    And then I saw one of my co-workers, you know, who doesn’t work for the company anymore. He was there. And I had looked at him, you know, and he was sitting on one of the benches. And then in the altar, that was my, you know, my wife had a rosary and she was kneeling and she was praying.

    Raphael De Leon 34:34

    And, I walked up to her and I’m like, Oh my God. You know, finally, I think I made it home. So when I was gonna talk to her, the lights went on. The lights went on and there and I heard in the background, hey, he’s waking up. He’s waking up. And then I looked, and it was the room.

    Raphael De Leon 34:54

    It was the room in the hospital and they’re like, Oh, he’s waking up. And everybody’s like, You know, they’re coming towards me in the bed. And I looked and I was looking around and I saw their legs in the room. And I was like, where am I? And then there was like, hey, hey, and they kept talking to me.

    Raphael De Leon 35:14

    And they’re like, you know where you are? And I go, No. And, and then they said, Well, you’re up here. Ah, and we’re here, California. I don’t know. I’m in Australia somewhere. And I will. I will, I kept saying that I was in Australia. And they said, don’t know. This is Whittier, California. European age. Do you remember you had a stroke and I?

    Raphael De Leon 35:38

    And then it hit me, right? I was like, Oh, yeah. And then my wife comes up to me. And she goes, Hey, it’s me. It’s Cindy. And I looked at her and I’m like, I don’t know you. I don’t know who you are. It’s me. It’s me. No, I don’t know who you are. I don’t know how you are. And then I saw my mom. And I was like, you know, I cried. And I was like, Hey, I’m back.

    Raphael De Leon 36:04

    I don’t know where it went. But I’m back. And then. And then, you know, she comes up to me, and she goes, Hey, it’s me. We’ve lived together for nine years. You know, it’s me. It’s Cindy. And, and I’m like, Oh, okay. And I go, What’s your mom’s name? And she goes, my mom’s name is Gloria. And they’re not and then I remember something right.

    Raphael De Leon 36:29

    And, and then, and then she goes, and I go, do you have good kids? And she goes, Yeah, I have two sons, remember? And I go, yeah, daylon and Ammy. Right. And she goes, yes, yes. And then I go, okay. Okay, I remember you now that’s how I woke up, man. That’s from Trippy. To when I woke up. That’s

    Bill Gasiamis 36:56

    trippy story. You know, I, I could just see somebody turning that into, into a short movie, you know, 30 minutes or 22 minutes, where you’re just you opens with somebody just walking, CPR, dark, bright, walking, meeting all these people having a conversation, going to the light. And then waking up in a hospital going, Whoa, where am I? What am I doing?

    Raphael De Leon 37:23

    What are they? Did they tell me? Hey, you better write down that story before you forget it. Forget it. Yeah, I was there. I learned. How can you forget something? So? So we’re from Nice at the same time?

    Bill Gasiamis 37:42

    Yeah. So you. So you were in, in hospital for 22 days in a coma after the surgery, and then you woke up? What kind of deficits did you have? What did you have to learn to do again?

    Raphael De Leon 37:59

    So, I stayed in the hospital for two months. Between those two months, I had therapy. The whole left side of my body did not work. I couldn’t move. My arm was swollen my arm, you know, my hand was like, really swollen. I couldn’t move it. You know, one day I woke up and I was I was moving my thumb.

    Raphael De Leon 38:25

    And they were all excited. Oh, my God, he was moving. He was moving. But I was alert. I was talking to people, they were asking me dumb questions. I’m a computer programmer. And they were asking me what two plus two is and I got so frustrated. I go, guys, I do algorithms I write code, or you know, I write programs for the company I work for.

    Raphael De Leon 38:50

    And you’re you guys are asking me simple math. No. And I asked my wife, can you bring in my laptop? Can you show him what real math is? And, you know, she caters to me and she brought the laptop and I showed him a few of my formulas and they were like, what is that I go that is my not two plus two.

    Raphael De Leon 39:11

    Everybody knows that two plus two is five, you know, sarcastically saying and then they started laughing. Because as far as I know, it’s for I just wanted to want to make you laugh. They asked me if we threw a rock in water would it sink? And I’m like, Come on, guys, you know, unless you throw it and you know in the Dead Sea, it’s gonna sink but it’s gonna go like this. It’s gonna go slow. And they started laughing they’re like, Oh my God, this guy. You know the answer is guys.

    Raphael De Leon 39:40

    This guy’s good. This guy, you know, because they were testing my cognitive abilities. Right? Yeah, well, like and they left pretty much left me alone after that. You know, the end. It was just the physical therapy. I couldn’t move my arm. I couldn’t move my leg. They got me out of bed. They tried. You know They put me in this cage.

    Raphael De Leon 40:02

    You know this Walker, I couldn’t do the walker. So then they gave me something called the Hemi the Hemi Walker, which had four legs. It’s it’s like it’s like a little thing like a cage. And then you put it to the right. And then I started walking. And one of the guys one of the deputies said that this guy’s strong, he can do it.

    Raphael De Leon 40:28

    He doesn’t need you know, he doesn’t need to walk here the full body Walker, he can stand on his feet. And then I started walking. I mean, not walking. started moving. Sorry, moving. Yeah.

    Bill Gasiamis 40:43

    What does your left side feel like now? What does it feel like?

    Raphael De Leon 40:48

    It’s painful on and daily basis. You know, it’s been three, almost three and a half years. It’s painful every day, different pains. It tingles. It’s limp. But it’s, you know, I can move my you know, my hand now I can. I can move my leg. I mean, I went back to work. See, I had a stroke in May of 2019. In October of 2019, you know, when I went, when I went home, I was in a wheelchair. I was in a wheelchair for almost.

    Raphael De Leon 41:24

    I went home on July 19, 2019. And, then I was in a wheelchair for about a month and a half. And then one day I woke up and I told my wife, I’m not getting on a wheelchair again. I’m not. And I you know, and I haven’t been working with a four-point cane.

    Raphael De Leon 41:50

    And you know, in the house, I would never stop I would always be on the move. You know? So far, in three and a half years, I have only fallen four times to the ground. And to me, that’s a record.

    Bill Gasiamis 42:07

    That’s good man. Well done.

    Raphael De Leon 42:11

    times I failed because I was freaking exhausted because I, no, no. The first time I went to I went to my neurologist after I came out of the hospital. He said, What are you doing here? My God, what do you mean? What am I doing? Here? He goes, Yeah, you’re supposed to be dead. You don’t know.

    Raphael De Leon 42:31

    But you cheated death. You know, let me show you your brain. And then he showed me the MRI, some of the pictures of my brain. He goes, Look, see all that that’s all blood. You will have the fact that you’re here. You know, standing in front of me with a four-point cane. It’s unbelievable. You know, you’re supposed to be there. But you know, here you are.

    Raphael De Leon 42:57

    Who you are arguing with me because I was like arguing with them and telling them why did what did they got a stroke? I mean, what happened? I exercised my whole life and never drank. I mean, I used to drink socially. I never smoke. I never use drugs. I was always like, you know, I’m a workaholic. I love to work.

    Raphael De Leon 43:19

    I would wake up at four in the morning, 430 in the morning, you know, work out at 630. I will hit work from 7  a.m. until whatever time I am at work.

    Bill Gasiamis 43:31

    And high blood pressure was an issue for a long time. It

    Raphael De Leon 43:36

    was when the doctor said that it was a mixture of high blood pressure and the stress that I had gone through for many years at work. Yeah. Yeah. And being an operations manager. Its stability. It’s a big it’s a big company.

    Raphael De Leon 43:54

    I work for Goya Goya Foods, you know, I am in charge of California, you know, I’m second in command in California. Yeah, and, you know, and we were responsible for the whole company in California, you know,

    Bill Gasiamis 44:14

    How quickly were you able to return to work? And how did that go?

    Going back to work after a stroke


    Raphael De Leon 44:17
    Oh, yeah, that’s where I was going. That was where I was gonna get to. So I went home in July of 2018. In October of 2018. I drove for the first time again, you know, like a few months after I had the stroke. I was like, Well, you know, I convinced my wife that I was able to drive and then she was like Okay, let’s go in the parking lot.

    Raphael De Leon 44:42

    Let’s see how you doing in the parking lot and I drove and then she was like, Okay, fine. So I went to a Christmas party to and for the company in December of 2019. And then the year after 2020 I will fit up Being up at home. And then I asked the doctor, hey, I need to go back to work. And he was laughing.

    Raphael De Leon 45:07

    He goes, you don’t want more time. And I go, Oh, because you’re the opposite to all my other patients, you want to go back to work, everybody beats me for more time at home, and I go, No man because I, I wanna, I want to, I want to be, you know, I don’t want to be one of those guys that that that milks the system, I want to go back to work, I want to, I want my life to mean something. And he was I respect that. So I was gonna go back in March of 2020.

    Raphael De Leon 45:37

    But that’s when the pandemic hit. Yeah, and the thing got shut down. So I was gonna go back and then you know, and then they said, No, let’s wait it out, you know, because you know, something might happen to you, you already survived a stroke, we don’t want you to get over and get sick, and you know, and then that, and then that dying on us so. So a few weeks went by in August, and I was going go back again, I called the doctor and I said, Hey, I’m reading it.

    Raphael De Leon 46:05

    So give me another letter, but I didn’t want to go back to work. So he sent a letter, he emailed it to me, and then I melted back to work and then I said, I was going back, but that’s when the second shutdown happened. And, and I was like, Oh, my God and I wanted to go back to work so bad that was, that was sick. I mean, as much as I love my wife, and I don’t want to be who I am. I didn’t want to feel confined to nothing to watch on TV.

    Raphael De Leon 46:37

    I hated TV back then. And then finally, in September, again, I called the doctor and said, You know what, I don’t care what, you know, I don’t care about COVID I don’t care about anything, I need to go back to work, I cannot stand here anymore. If I get another stroke, because I’m, I’m gonna get depressed of being and in this place, I felt like I was confined to, you know, to being home to watching TV and watch the world go by with nothing.

    Raphael De Leon 47:09

    So he was okay, finally. So I finally went to work in September of 2020. You know, went back, you know, the beginning people thought, you know, no, he’s not gonna make it. He’s like, you know, he’s, you know, they saw me struggling getting you know, getting up the steps to the to the office and all that stuff, but I probably wrong. I proved them wrong, since

    Bill Gasiamis 47:36

    everyone is wrong so far. That’s good. Rafa, tell me about how it’s changed your life. I know it’s changed your life physically in the way that your body works and how has it impacted you? On a, you know, on a deeper level, how do you see life now because you had this amazing 22 days? Trip ID journey as well. So, you know, are things different? Do you see things differently now? How do you? How do you see life now? Like, what’s it about?

    Raphael De Leon 48:10

    Okay, to tell you the truth. I never took life for granted. Okay. I always, you know, people who know me, they know that I’m an easygoing guy, I’m very, I care about everybody. I care about life, I care about, you know, life in general. And for me to say that I have a better perspective or another perspective in life, I would be lying because I have the same perspective.

    Raphael De Leon 48:41

    The only difference is that I went through some experience that made me realize that you know, that I don’t know if you guys are religious. I was not religious. I was very spiritual. But having gone through what I went through, made me and this is the only thing that I can say that changed a little bit. It made me a bigger believer.

    Raphael De Leon 49:16

    Okay. I did it because I did go to another place. It was real. It was not a dream. It was physical. It was it was there. You know, I felt it. I walked it. I saw this person.

    Raphael De Leon 49:39

    I saw things like that. I don’t know if it was another dimension. I don’t remember who it was. I asked a priest because when I woke up,

    Raphael De Leon 49:51

    there was a priest that had been going daily because they said that I was that wasn’t my children to die. They were waiting for me to die daily. And this priest kept going and going. And when I woke up and I told him the story, first of all, I told him the story and he will all he wasn’t all he was like, wow, where’s displays, and I go, I don’t know.

    Raphael De Leon 50:14

    And I described it to him. And he’s like, Oh, wow. Even asked him to look for 22 in the Bible to use, you know, numbers are very important in the Bible look for

    Bill Gasiamis 50:25

    is any reference

    Raphael De Leon 50:28

    22 is, when I look when I looked it up in the Bible, it’s the number 22. Another thing that signifies is how God communicates with us with a human being. Right? That’s the only thing that I gather from, you know when I looked it up, and, but, you know, my perspective, adult life now it’s like, even though I never took it for granted, that little bit more meaningful.

    Raphael De Leon 51:01

    Like, you know, it’s I don’t know, it made me respect everything more. You know, and, in that, because I’m in this condition, I’m very slow, you know, physically, cognitively, I’m the same person. I never loved one grandma, who I used to be, I’m still, you know, I can still, you know, reacting, I see people with Aphasia I see people with, with other conditions after they had their stroke, and thank God, I don’t have any of that.

    Bill Gasiamis 51:42

    And how, so, did you go back to your work in the same capacity as you were before as the operations manager? And how has your physical condition impacted the way you deliver on your job?

    Raphael De Leon 51:58

    Okay, so when I went back, you know, first of all, you know, the CEO of the company, you know, reassured me at work, you, cuz I asked him, me, if I, if I get better, can I go back to work? And he goes, Yes, by all means, we need you, we want you back. Once you get, you know, better, you know, you don’t have to worry about the job is going to be there, just get better, just wait it out, get better and go back to work.

    Raphael De Leon 52:31

    So when I went back to work, chain, because I was slow and went into my office, and I was like, Oh my God, you know, how do I Oh, and then the owner, the CEO, which is my boss now, you know, he told me, Hey, you know, now, the difference is the difference, between back then, when before you had the stroke, is now that you have a bunch of people that are going to be helping you, you’re gonna have, you’re gonna have a bunch of like, you know, people that will assist you do the labor, you know,

    Raphael De Leon 53:07

    And I go, okay, so, I went in the same capacity, they didn’t block anything. They were just watching me. And I’ve, I felt, you know, and one day I overheard someone saying, hey, you know, he’s not, he’s just gonna be there for a few days, and then he’s gonna leave because it’s too much. And, and I was like, you know, I didn’t want them or to know that I that I eavesdropped on their conversation. And, but I but I thought, Nah, I’m gonna show these people that I’m

    Bill Gasiamis 53:42

    Gonna prove them wrong as well.

    Raphael De Leon 53:45

    I’m gonna show them that. I’m here, then I’m back.

    What about cognitive fatigue?

    Bill Gasiamis 53:51

    What about fatigue? What about cognitive fatigue, a lot of stroke survivors do struggle with cognitive fatigue, especially, I did when I sat down in front of a computer screen for the first time after brain surgery. And that was hard and it was hard for about a year and a half, two years. So what was it like for you?

    Raphael De Leon 54:10

    The only fatigue I have as physical if I get in front of a computer, especially, you know, the whole time that I was in, you know, in my house, I you know, I love Excel. You know, Microsoft Excel is to me like the greatest program in the world.

    Bill Gasiamis 54:29

    Wow, it probably is true. There are so many people who I know who like who love Excel and just do things. I look at Excel and I just want to go to sleep it just puts me to sleep I can deal with that kind of stuff too much cognitive effort for for me to use Excel right so I just have never used that for what it’s for what it is designed to be used for.

    Bill Gasiamis 54:56

    And then I meet people like you who go oh my god Excel this next saw that, and I know that it’s powerful, but my God, what are learning? What a skill to learn, it’s such a hard skill to learn,

    Raphael De Leon 55:09

    I can draw and sketch and you know, and Excel draw, I can draw pictures I can do, I can create formulas that will, you know, draw a picture, I have created this crazy, you know, spreadsheets that they have been used, you know, I ran into the spreadsheet the other day, you know, that I created for, for an accountant, you know, for the accountants, you know, like 1516 years ago.

    Raphael De Leon 55:39

    And then I looked at the formulas and 16 years ago was different, you know, you have to create these crazy formulas to make, you know, I spreadsheet work. And I looked at the formula that I created back then. And I was like, Oh my God, how the hell did I create that formula? And it was so weird, and they’re still using it to the day, you know, from 16 years ago, even though there are so many other things, so many, you know, easier things.

    Raphael De Leon 56:10

    And what they said, when I went back, he goes over, it makes our life a little easier, because he makes everything dummy. Dummy proof, you know that I give him a spreadsheet and everything is there. They don’t have to ask me for anything.

    Bill Gasiamis 56:26

    So the fatigue, man, that’s good that you get no,

    Raphael De Leon 56:29

    I don’t have any fatigue, or cognitive fatigue. Fatigue, I don’t. That’s yeah. Now physically. Yeah, no, I don’t have and I had the, what’s it called the craniotomy, I had it, I have my scar right here. What happened? Because I don’t want people to see my scar. But I guess they say the right side of my brain is completely gone.

    Raphael De Leon 57:07

    Like a quarter of the brain is completely gone. And, but I think I had had been using the left side of my brain my whole life, because I woke up and I remember everything, and I’m like, I love it. I would

    Bill Gasiamis 57:24

    love to see your scans, I would love to see your scans, if you’ve caught them. It sounds like they are worth looking at.

    Raphael De Leon 57:31

    And that’s my job. I’ve been meaning to ask the doctor for them. But my wife always tells me, why do you want to see that?

    Bill Gasiamis 57:38

    I loved I’ve loved looking at my scans, seeing where the blood was, and trying and understand what happened there didn’t bother me at all. It was interesting. Thank you, it was really interesting.

    Raphael De Leon 57:55

    What do you have? What do you do? Did you experience

    Bill Gasiamis 57:59

    so had a brain hemorrhage as well, near the cerebellum, on the right side from about two inches in from my ear. And I had to learn how to walk again, use my left side again, I still have the tingles and numbness and the cold sensation on my left side, and the tightness in the muscles. So I still have all of the deficits that were in 2014 was surgery.

    Bill Gasiamis 58:29

    So yeah, it’s been a bit of a and but then I experienced, you know, a lot of cognitive fatigue, physical fatigue a lot, a lot of issues there that took it took a long time, but they got better. As I started to get better and healthier, and more physically fit, everything came back.

    Bill Gasiamis 58:49

    But still, all my deficits are there, all the things that I feel on my left side are all steel that is still there, you know, and that’s why I’m just when the MMA is that you got to be. And the damage in my brain is probably the size of a golf ball. And then at the most, you know, you’re telling me, a very large percentage of your brain is damaged, then I’m thinking well, that’s, that’s what I’m saying.

    Bill Gasiamis 59:19

    That’s a scan, I’d love to see because I’m speaking to the man. And then I want to see, I want to see what it looks like. And that’s maybe that’s why all your doctors are amazed. You shouldn’t be around. Well my nearer

    Raphael De Leon 59:32

    and nearer surgeon or you know, he’s he told me he goes, You know, it’s amazing that because you’re not you were supposed to wake up, not being able to talk, work, or even reason. And here you are arguing with me. I’ll tell you another story.

    Raphael De Leon 59:52

    So one day I was going he told me he called me on the phone and he told me Hey, you know Usually I have my nurses call my patients to tell them the good news, but your special case, so I’m calling you personally, and I go what’s up? And then he goes, Well, you know that little, and I forget the name of it, but it’s like the beginning of an aneurysm.

    Raphael De Leon 1:00:18

    He told me, you know, that condition that we’re looking at, and we’re, we’re going to watch for years, and I told you that we’re going to you know what, we’re gonna keep an eye on it. I go, Yeah. He goes, Oh, first of all, let me tell you that I have a colleague here because I want him. You know, he wanted to, he wanted to talk to you as well. He wanted to get to know you. He wants to know you, too. He’s amazed at your story.

    Raphael De Leon 1:00:41

    And do you mind if I have him on the phone? I don’t know. I don’t mind. So they were both talking to me. And then he goes, you know, that, that, that aneurysm that we’re so worried about? And I told you, we’re gonna keep an eye on it. It’s not there no more. And I wanted to give you the news myself. They will. So congratulations is not there no more so we don’t have to worry about it. And I go, Oh, that’s great.

    Raphael De Leon 1:01:04

    You know, I was relieved because I didn’t want to go through this again, right? And then, and then he goes, Yeah, and where are you at? And I go, Oh, I’m on my way to work. Legally, what do you mean, you’re on your way to work? Yeah. Well, I’m driving. I’m going to work right now. He goes, Uh, he has a party. My fingers get that fit here. You’re driving? Like, whoa, yeah, I try to work every day.

    Raphael De Leon 1:01:32

    Because No, but you’re driving and talking to me. And then I go, Yeah, you know, you call me. And then he like, didn’t and then I heard him say, didn’t I tell you about this guy? Then he goes, maybe and then I’m laughing. And I feel proud. I’m like, oh, man, they’re you know, they’re praising me. And that feels good.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:54

    You should be proud. And you should be proud. Whatever. The reason is that you’re here. It’s great that you’re here. It’s great that it worked out well. It doesn’t often work out very well for people like us, man sometimes. Look nobody, the people on them on my podcast of the survivors.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:02:11

    It’s the recovery after stroke, podcast. Unfortunately, a lot of people don’t survive this stuff. And that’s the reality. So this podcast is for the survivors so that we can encourage people to get back to life, chasing

    Raphael De Leon 1:02:29

    by Laura, I will do anything to encourage people because some people get sick because they get depressed. Yeah. And I understand I was depressed for a few days that I couldn’t move that I you know, I couldn’t. I went back to the gym and I tried lifting weights but I couldn’t.

    Raphael De Leon 1:02:50

    I couldn’t even lift one pound. And you know, when I was benching I one time I bench you know, I did five repetitions of 320 pounds on the bench and oh, that I was so you know, I mean, I’m only five, eight. And people in the gym were like, Whoa, wow, this little frickin guy can lift all that way.

    Raphael De Leon 1:03:16

    And now I wake up and I can’t even lift my weight. So that was depressing. Press for I was I was not depressed at all. Okay, I was depressed for about a half hour. And my thing in my head was like, I need to get up. I need to get on with my life. I cannot stay in bed. I can lay in bed. Yeah.

    Raphael De Leon 1:03:46

    And that’s been my, that’s been, that’s what motivates me that I want to get on with my life. I don’t want to be in a wheelchair. I don’t want to be you know, not being able to do anything. I want to fend for myself, you know. And I’m lucky I have a beautiful wife and she’s helped me through the whole process.

    Raphael De Leon 1:04:14

    The people who helped me out the therapists, were great. had like the greatest therapists in the world. And they were they were funny, too. They were like, oh my god, everybody wants to help you out because you know, you go to another person and they don’t want to get out of bed.

    Raphael De Leon 1:04:33

    I mean, you you’re always looking at the door, you know, and waiting for us to say hey, Ralph, let’s go. And that was my, you know, that was my thing. And, if anybody wants to hear my story, and if I can encourage people to trust me, I will go and I see you and you look normal to me and you Look, okay,

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:02

    I’m far from normal. But yeah, I do. It doesn’t look like anything is wrong with me. But that’s one of my challenges is, when you see me, you, you see the same person that I was before all of my three brain hemorrhages and brain surgery and learning how to walk again.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:22

    So the challenge that I had was because I looked so well, I couldn’t explain to people how I was feeling. And then that was very difficult for me frustrating. And people would have bigger expectations of me because they don’t understand. And then it’s like, I don’t know how to get the message across yet. It’s difficult.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:45

    So this morning, I woke up, and my left side is hurting a lot today, I’m not sure why I didn’t sleep at all last night, that might be one of the reasons. And I don’t know. And that means that today, I’m going to be tired all day. And I’m going to be different all day. But I can’t explain that to somebody that just doesn’t get it.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:06:09

    When I used to be tired beforehand. Because I didn’t sleep, it didn’t affect my day-to-day didn’t impact me. I was just tired. But I was able to be fully functioning and fully productive and do all the things that I do. Now I can’t I can’t be productive when I haven’t had a good night’s sleep and when my left side hurts, or the whole left side hurts.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:06:36

    And then when you can’t see it, and I have to interact with people, then I can’t explain it to them. It’s just so hard. And it’s just it’s just one of those things. I don’t know. First trading, right? Yeah, it’s frustrating. And that’s one of the reasons for the podcast is because with a podcast, I get to speak to two people a week or one person a week, who gets me who understands me, I understand them, they understand me, it’s like my therapy.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:07:06

    My family, I don’t never want them to understand because there’s only one way for them to understand. So I kind of accept that. But I wish I could just get the message across just so that they could give me a break on the day. When I needed it. If I could just today’s the day I need a break because of that reason that you can’t see.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:07:32

    That’s bothering me that’s making me feel unwell. If I could just get that over the line easier would be fantastic. But I do what I can and they do what they can we’ve come a long way it’s taken. You know, it’s a 10-year journey so far for me 11 years this year.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:07:49

    So we are we’re getting further along and I don’t do things the way I used to do them before we can’t we can’t do them the same. I can’t personally do them the same. So it’s a new approach to my day. It’s a new approach to my life. It’s a new approach to everything.

    Raphael De Leon 1:08:12

    So what about you? What in what way? Do you think you change that they’re having a stroke? What what what do you treasure the most now or what’s more important to you now, than before?

    Bill Gasiamis 1:08:26

    I used to believe I used to have bad beliefs that I wasn’t capable of doing something or able to achieve something or that was good for them to do that. But that’s not something that I can do. You know, I used to have that type of negative self-talk. And I used to struggle to ask for help. And I didn’t, I didn’t believe in myself.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:08:48

    I listened to the people who were negative in their approach to me, and I took their advice instead of the people who were positive and supportive. And it used to make me angry and frustrated that I used to take my anger and frustration out on my family.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:09:06

    Usually my kids it was disguised as discipline. It was disguised as I was being disciplined and disciplining them and teaching them the correct way and all that but it wasn’t it was more anger me not knowing how to behave like a 37-year-old evolved human being I was just behaving like a child you know, an 18-year-old child that never really grew up.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:09:34

    After the first and second bleeds are started to take notice that I might not be around. So what I need to do is edge and make things right with the people that are important to me because I love them. I just didn’t know how to show love correctly.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:09:54

    Because I loved them and I didn’t want them thinking that dad was always an angry guy you know if he died If I died, and I didn’t want him to think that, that’s all they remembered, you know, I want him to remember better things than that. So I put a lot of things, right, apologized to a lot of people.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:10:12

    And now I don’t know, now I sit in the struggle of not knowing how to do something. So recently, I finished the first draft of my book. And that was a year and a half of writing. And it was the hardest thing I’ve ever done. It was such a difficult thing. Because of those cognitive issues that I have, my brain gets fried easily.

    The hardest thing Raphael De Leon ever had to do

    Bill Gasiamis 1:10:35

    I have to find windows where I’m feeling well. And then just sit down for as long as I can and write as much as I can. That’s a guy who has never written more than maybe one or two essays in his life, didn’t study, didn’t do homework, or hardly set my exams, you know, actually made a lot of effort to fail at school and not do well, because I just hated it, I just couldn’t.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:11:05

    I’m not sure if it’s a learning. If it’s a learning thing, I don’t know what it was, but I could not sit in a classroom and obtain information from my teachers, and from my books and absorb it, and do anything with it. I have other ways of learning.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:11:21

    So YouTube, for me is a godsend, you know, listening to books instead of reading books is far better for me because I can’t the pages off getting the pages, the words off the pages, and into my brain is really hard, I’ve got to often go back and double read and triple read that page and trying to absorb that information.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:11:48

    So even though I have all of those challenges, some of them are in my mind, some of them I’ve created, who knows how I got to be that way. But even though that was that I didn’t, it doesn’t bother me now that something is hard. I’ll sit through I’ll find a way I’ll ever commit. And the book I started writing in COVID, locked down.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:12:13

    In Australia, we had so many of the men in Melbourne, that we were locked down for two years, properly locked down. I started writing it as a thing, something to do like you, I can’t be at home, all day, every day for months after month after month, which is what we were, and not do anything. So I thought I was gonna write a book.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:12:35

    And when we got back to work, I think we finally got back to work. All the lockdowns ended in September 2021, then the book started to take a backseat. And I started trying to find time on the weekend to write it. But it was always on my mind, I’ve come so far, I’ve done seven out of 10 chapters, you know, I’ve got to do the next one, I’m going to do the next one. And I’m going to do the next one. And it was never, it never left my mind.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:13:10

    The hardest thing I’ve ever had to do. For the first time, it was always on my mind that I had to do this, I couldn’t do it. So it’s just that I’ve got this opportunity to be alive still. And I’ve got the support to write the books, I had a book coach, I had encouragement.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:13:29

    I knew the book chapters, I had people coming out of everywhere telling how telling me that they were happy to support me, I wasn’t going to let the opportunity go, I was going to put something in writing and get it out, you know. And what was also interesting was, the working title of the book is stroke, the unexpected way that a stroke became the best thing that ever happened to me.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:13:56

    And it is because I have a podcast where I talk to people around the world. You know, we get nearly six and a half 1,000 downloads a month. We get feedback from people all the time who tell me why the podcast is necessary and how it’s helping them. I’m coaching people to overcome some of the challenges that they have with stroke. I mean, you know, there’s no, nothing bad has come out of this stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:14:28

    If I with my body. Most of the days are days where I can manage and I can cope and I can overcome the pain and the numbness and all that kind of stuff, you know, so it’s all good. So, when the opportunity comes to do something I just take it, I just do it whereas before I would tell myself, it’s not for you, Bill, you can’t do this.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:14:50

    It’s for other people to write books. You’re not a book writer. I never used to be a podcaster either, but here I am. I’m a podcast and you know, so that’s kind of how my life changes My perspective is completely different. And now I just go after everything, I just don’t care how long it’s gonna take or what the obstacles are.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:15:10

    I’ve learned that the obstacles are the way to the solution. But once you reach an obstacle, that’s the path you must take, you must overcome that obstacle and keep going forward, you know. What was interesting was when I asked the people on Instagram, my Instagram, recovery after Stroke, has five and a half 1000 followers. So when I asked them, Are there other people that tell me strokes, the best thing that ever happened to them?

    Bill Gasiamis 1:15:39

    You know, people put their hand up and said, Yeah, that’s me. And me, and me and me. So when I interviewed them, to find out what the things were, that we had in common, how did we get to say that what was similar about that? The 10 chapters came up, I saw that there were at least 10 common things that they did, which is what I did.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:16:03

    And those those things became the chapters. So how can you not write that book, people need to know that many people are early on in their journey, and they might not appreciate that. It’s shit. It’s hard. It’s challenging. It’s changed your life. It’s taken stuff from you. It’s done all these things.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:16:25

    But maybe, down the road, we can look back on it. And we can say that we’ve had some post-traumatic growth, instead of post-traumatic stress, instead of depression, instead of all that stuff, maybe we can look back and go, even though it took all this stuff, it still gave me all have this other stuff.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:16:51

    You know, so I’m hoping that that’s what it’s going to inspire people to think to think that. Let’s focus on the positives. What else we can get out of that? I always think about Stephen Hawking, man, Stephen Hawking, that physicist, you know, he had motor neuron disease or something like that.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:17:09

    And from his mid-30s, he wasn’t able to move any part of his body or do anything. And he still became one of the world’s greatest physicists. Yeah. And he’s written books. And he’s like, the most amazing person that we ever heard about who made movies about him. I always think about that guy.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:17:29

    And then I’m wondering if stroke survivors just look at what Stephen Hawking was able to achieve, and they achieved just 1/100 of what he achieved. It will be an amazing story.

    Raphael De Leon 1:17:44

    Yeah, no, I you know, and like I said, you know, we struggle, you and I and everyone has had a stroke with struggle, but that it is just a struggle. It’s, we’re alive. Which you should keep going. You know, feeling sorry about yourself is not gonna take you anywhere. It’s not gonna leave you anywhere. Yeah, you know, it’s life needs to go on.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:18:16

    And you get to the enemy alive once that’s the one thing that I learned. Rafa, it’s it’s only going to be one time I’m going to be on this planet, like this now, so you know what,

    Raphael De Leon 1:18:28

    exactly, you know, what the hell? I was just gonna say that to you. We only get one chance at this. Yeah, that’s it. And you know, one of the things that I, I mean, I always watch the Discovery Channel, the older Learning Channel documentaries. I mean, I’m, I was a nerd since I was a little kid, right?

    Raphael De Leon 1:18:53

    But now with the new telescope, you know, the pictures of the universe and how big the universe is, and how meaningful it is, you know, even a split second in the universe, as small as we are. Its second is very meaningful. Whether you’re in the universe, whether you’re on Earth, or whether you’re in a different dimension, you know, but every second counts.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:19:24

    It could be meaningful, and it could be deeply meaningful. You know, I’ve had people on here who have aphasia, and they can hardly talk, but they still came on my podcast. It’s technically having somebody who has aphasia on a podcast is not the right approach, because it’s a talking medium. What are you supposed to do with somebody who can’t talk on a podcast, that’s exactly what.

    Raphael De Leon 1:19:52

    You don’t even know what kind of effort they’re trying to communicate with you. And then they’re calling things different, you know? So, I met a gentleman with aphasia at a Starbucks. And he was trying to tell me, you know, I gathered just maybe 80% of what he was trying to tell me. He was so happy to see me.

    Raphael De Leon 1:20:14

    And we had the same, you know, condition. And he was struggling on the left. And he saw me in any waved at me, he came, He hugged me. And then he goes, did you have your stroke? And I told him, and that’s about a year after my stroke, and he said that he had gotten his stroke 15 years before.

    Raphael De Leon 1:20:37

    And then he was so happy to see me. And then, you know, we kind of like, I teared up a little bit he did to kind of cried, and, we were, he’s still my friend, and, and I think Facebook and Instagram, and we follow each other, we make fun of each other. And I know, and then he sends me this text that I don’t know what he’s saying.

    Raphael De Leon 1:21:00

    But you know, but I was, you know, send them like Smiley’s that I know, he’s trying to tell me something. And

    Bill Gasiamis 1:21:08

    it’s awesome. That’s exactly. And that’s it. That’s my point, you know, that’s, you have a podcast and have somebody who has aphasia who can’t talk, or communicate the way they used to. That’s the perfect person to have on a podcast, I love it.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:21:22

    I mean, the fact that we’re just gonna have people on who can speak clearly, and all that is ridiculous. Everybody needs to be on the podcast because that’s the whole point of it, the whole point of it is to give people a platform and to allow them to express themselves and to find a way to express themselves, which is different from the majority of us.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:21:45

    But it’s, even if it’s unique to them, it’s still what you said, it’s still important, it’s still impactful, it still has a lot of deep, meaning it’s relevant. It’s necessary, you know, so it’s like, that’s, that’s, that’s kind of indescribable. That’s the ink that lights me up, to be able to be that guy where somebody had decided to have the courage to overcome their aphasia.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:22:17

    And to come onto my podcast to do that. And it’s like, fantastic, man. That’s brilliant. I love it. Can’t I can’t get over that just really feels my heart to know that that’s a possibility.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:22:30

    Now, for people with aphasia, you know, whereas before, all this internet stuff, zoom, and before we couldn’t connect, you and I would never have met each other. I mean, it’s the best time to be on the planet. I know there’s stuff going wrong, but there always has been, and it’s never been a better time to be on the planet.

    Raphael De Leon 1:22:47

    It. Yes, I agree. Where are you from? What part of the world are you in?

    Bill Gasiamis 1:22:54

    I’m in Melbourne Australia. Awesome. When you were

    Raphael De Leon 1:22:59

    I have an uncle who lives in Queensland. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:23:04

    Maybe that’s why you were thinking that you were in Australia when you were when you won’t

    Raphael De Leon 1:23:09

    tell you what one of the places that are that I went to during my coma? Was that Australia? I thought it was in Australia somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. And I’m telling you, I was there for months. And I walked the streets of LA then I was living then it comes and goes that I remember things. I was living in a trailer in the wilderness, and there was a river and then it was Australia. And I was like, wow, this is who knows me?

    Bill Gasiamis 1:23:43

    I don’t know. Maybe we’re everywhere. You’re everywhere.

    Raphael De Leon 1:23:46

    You know, the mind is something beautiful. You know, we create these things with our in our head. And I guess I was entertaining myself while I was in a coma knows.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:23:58

    Perfect, Rafa man, I appreciate you connecting and coming on the podcast. I love your story. It’s an amazing story. I’m so glad that you proved everybody wrong, and they’re gonna keep doing that. And thanks so much for being on the podcast.

    Raphael De Leon 1:24:16

    Thank you. No, thank you for having me. And good job. You’re doing a great deed.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:24:21

    Thanks for joining us on today’s episodes. To learn more about my guests, including links to their social media and other pages, and to download a full transcript of the entire interview. Please go to recoveryafterstroke.com/episodes.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:24:35

    If you’d like to try out the course Five Foods to Avoid after Stroke, go to recoveryafterstroke.com/courses and get on board now. If you would like to support this podcast, the best way to do it is to leave a five-star review and a few words about what the show means to you on iTunes and Spotify.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:24:52

    If you’re watching on YouTube, please comment below the video, like the episode, and to get future episodes hit The Notifications Bell and subscribe to the show. If you are a stroke survivor with a story to share about your experience, come and join me on the show.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:25:09

    The interviews are not scripted, and you do not have to plan for them all you need to do to qualify is be a stroke survivor, care for someone who is a stroke survivor, or be one of the fabulous people who help stroke survivors go to recoveryafterstroke.com/contact fill out the contact form and as soon as I receive your request, I will respond with more details on how you can choose a time that works for me and you to meet over zoom.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:25:34

    Thanks again for being here and listening. I appreciate you see you on the next episode.

    Intro 1:25:38

    Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals’ opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast or the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed all content on this website at any length blog, podcast or video material controlled this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis, the content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing.

    Intro 1:26:12

    It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice the information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances, or health objectives. Do not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional.

    Intro 1:26:33

    Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional, your doctor, or your rehabilitation program based on our content if you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition, please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional if you are experiencing a health emergency or think you might be call 000 if in Australia or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance or go to the nearest hospital emergency department medical information changes constantly.

    Intro 1:26:59

    While we aim to provide current quality information in our content. We did not provide any guarantees and assume no legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, currency, or completeness of the content. If you choose to rely on any information within our content, you do so solely at your own risk. We are careful with the links we provide however third-party links from our website are followed at your own risk and we are not responsible for any information you find there.

    The post Out Of Body Experiences, High Blood Pressure and Stroke – Raphael De Leon appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

    1 hr 28 min
  • What Happens When The Worst Happens – Liam Bonar

    Liam Bonar shares his journey of recovery after experiencing a hemorrhagic stroke at the age of 24 due to a cavernoma. In this inspiring episode, Liam emphasizes the importance of finding perspective when facing difficult situations and not worrying about things that are not helpful or useful.

    00:56 Introduction

    01:28 Liam Bonar’s hemorrhagic stroke
    09:46 The five foods to avoid after a stroke
    16:31 The process to get to the hospital
    20:35 Liam Bonar had a cavernoma
    36:50 What happens when the worst happens
    46:36 Getting back to work after a stroke
    51:51 The importance of having a network to support your recovery
    58:47 Learning how to be more aware of his body
    1:05:47 The importance of being present as a father
    1:15:32 How art is a development device
    1:26:54 The importance of having a creative outlet in recovery

    Liam Bonar 0:00

    What happens when the worst happens? You know, and then the worst does happen, So actually, you just have to go on with it. I mean, that’s another thing, there’s no point worrying about that stuff. You know, there’s just no point, it’s not helpful. It’s not useful. Yeah, put it in perspective.

    Liam Bonar 0:20

    And I’ve kind of mentioned a few times over the years to people, they always kind of look at me, and I’ve heard a few times on your podcast that people say in it, but the brain injury and I talk about it as an injury because that’s the lens I’ve always going to try to look at it. It’s the best thing that ever happened to me.

    Intro 0:44

    This is the Recovery after Stroke podcast. With Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after stroke.

    Introduction – Liam Bonar


    Bill Gasiamis 0:56
    Hello, and welcome once again to the Recovery After Stroke Podcast. This is episode 242. And my guest today is Liam Bonar, who experienced a hemorrhagic stroke due to a cavernoma when he was aged 24. Liam Bonar, welcome to the podcast.

    Liam Bonar 1:14

    Lovely to be with you. Thanks for having me.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:18

    Absolute pleasure. Can I just ask you, before we get stuck into the interview, I’d love to know what was it that made you reach out to be on the podcast.

    Liam Bonar had a hemorrhagic Stroke

    Liam Bonar 1:28

    That’s a really good question. So it’s it’s nine years almost to the day since I had my brain hemorrhage. And actually, I’ve been thinking about this quite a lot recently, because I’ve recently become a dad. So I’m 34 years old now. I was 25 when I had a brain hemorrhage.

    Liam Bonar 1:51

    And we’re currently going through a bit of, I suppose research, and just finding out what the risks are for my son. So it’s kind of brought everything back into really sharp focus, I suppose.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:09

    Interesting children do that. What was it like before children? Just yourself don’t have anyone to be concerned about or worried about? How did you go about life?

    Liam Bonar 2:23

    I think yeah, I mean, I think that’s probably quite a good way to describe it. I mean, I was I was young when I had the stroke. You know, young and invincible, and you think that nothing’s ever gonna affect you, I suppose. Certainly, you don’t think about stroke or the risks of stroke.

    Liam Bonar 2:45

    So it kind of crept up on me, I suppose, out of nowhere. And I think just the journey that I suppose the recovery years and months and years afterward, it’s really, it’s been one of those things where I’ve learned to manage my symptoms and move on with them and make peace with them. I suppose and just live a happy and fulfilled life.

    Liam Bonar 3:12

    And that is my, I suppose my primary driver for coming on here really is, I mean, I don’t have an agenda, certainly, but you know, if I can kind of share my story, and, you know, maybe help somebody less then, you know, job done. I think that’s, that’s all you can do.

    Bill Gasiamis 3:33

    That’s a really big agenda. Believe it sounds like it’s not an agenda. And I’m not saying that an agenda is a bad thing. What I’m saying is the amount of people that reach out to me and say, that podcast interview that person that thing it’s just sharing of a story. And to me, the stories are also similar, there’s not much of a difference, you know, something happened.

    Bill Gasiamis 4:02

    I had to overcome a lot of stuff, and I’m back to life, but it’s not appropriate to break it down to just those things, something happened, and I had to overcome it. And then I went on with life. There is a lot of nuance in that story when you get to the other side, and then it remains nuanced because it’s your specific journey.

    Bill Gasiamis 4:27

    The thing about it is your specific journey has a lot of things in it that other people benefit from learning about and hearing about. And that’s the whole reason for the podcast. That’s why there are 240 episodes and people are approaching me to be on the show, because they got a sense of what it was like to accidentally discover it and then go, Oh my gosh, I’m not alone.

    Bill Gasiamis 4:52

    I’m not the only person that went through that. And then they felt the amazing gift of giving, and that gift of giving, is seems like it’s about you seems like it’s you’re doing it for your benefit, which you are, which is great, but everyone else benefits as well. And that’s the amazing thing.

    Bill Gasiamis 5:12

    That’s why I asked because I want to encourage people to come to the show. After all, the gift of being on the show is one that you receive, but it’s also one that you give to other people you’re never going to meet and whose life you’re going to change for the better.

    Liam Bonar 5:27

    Absolutely. I agree with all of that. And I think you’ve had, you know, firstly, you know, well done for doing what you’re doing. And you’ve had some, you know, inspirational people on the show that there’s been some great stories.

    Liam Bonar 5:45

    You know, one that I was listening to recently, Michael, you know, I kind of want to say to him as well, you’re stuck at it, it gets better. And it’s that kind of thing. You know, it’s it’s, you know, it can only help, you know, it can only be a good thing.

    Liam Bonar 6:01

    So, nine years down the line, you know, I think being able to take a step back and look at it, you know, holistically and objectively, you know, I agree, as you could reduce it down to, impact resolution, you know, if you look at it that way, and there will be absolutely similarities.

    Liam Bonar 6:23

    And, you know, I suppose, pretty much it’s the same story, time and time again, you know, you have to make peace with it.

    Bill Gasiamis 6:33

    You have to mean it’s not going to work otherwise, not only is our story, the same, but so is somebody who had a stroke, somebody who is the same, somebody who’s had a heart attack, a cancer survivor, traffic injury, from a car collision or something like that. All the stories are the same.

    Bill Gasiamis 6:52

    It’s somebody goes through something, it tests you, you have to learn new skills, you have to adjust, you have to adapt, and then you have to move on. And it’s relevant to everybody, this particular podcast, happens to be called Recovery After Stroke podcast, so that may say that I’m able to reach my specific viewers, listeners, and audience, that’s the purpose of it.

    Bill Gasiamis 7:18

    I did call it something else before it was the recovery after stroke podcast, and it didn’t quite resonate with anybody because it was so broad. And by the time I found my audience, you know, 20 or 30 episodes in, I started to feel like I wasn’t doing the time that I was putting in any justice.

    Bill Gasiamis 7:40

    And I wasn’t able to tell a specific person, hey, this podcast is for you. There’s a whole bunch of people who want to listen to us and tell our story caregivers, healthcare professionals, stroke survivors, and all the different kinds of people who have been injured by stroke. And it’s and that’s the one that kind of started making people listen, respond, want to be on, etc.

    Bill Gasiamis 8:09

    So this is what I love about the fact that it’s called the Recovery of Trek podcast. It’s it’s niched, to the point where, if you’re a stroke survivor, and you hear about this podcast using it for you immediately. That being said, the lessons are universal. They are.

    Liam Bonar 8:27

    Yeah, that’s fantastic. I think I think one of the major things for me, you know, and you’ll be the same because I think your timeline is pretty similar. I think you’re 10 years on, is that right?

    Bill Gasiamis 8:39

    Yeah.

    Liam Bonar 8:41

    So I mean, go back 10 years, and there wasn’t anything like this. I mean, I remember distinctly remember, you know, looking around to the kind of waiting rooms, and you know, there was nobody my age certainly that was a really kind of alienating experience actually, it was terrifying, you know.

    Liam Bonar 9:05

    And, you know, that’s not to say that I’m unique because, you know, I’m I know I’m very aware that no, there’s plenty of people, you know, in my shoes and have been in my shoes, but I think too, to kind of be the only person under the age of 50 say in when are in the national hospital or the hospital board, hyper acute stroke in UCLH in one day, you know, it kind of brings it home, you know.

    The five foods to avoid after a stroke

    Bill Gasiamis 9:37

    just a quick break and we’ll be right back to the interview. As a stroke survivor, I understand the difficulties of finding the right information about post-stroke nutrition. That’s why I developed the course Five Foods to Avoid After Stroke. While most people are talking about what to eat after a stroke to support brain health and recovery, very few are talking about what you should avoid eating after a stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 10:01

    If you want to support your brain to heal and are curious about the five foods that may make matters worse when you consume them, then you may benefit from this course. In the fun five-series of interviews, you’ll hear about what foods not to eat after a stroke. But most importantly, why not?

    Bill Gasiamis 10:19

    From a qualified nutritionist Stacy Turner and performance coach Matthias Turner in the more than five hours of interviews, we discuss the five common foods that cause inflammation in the body and brain how they could interfere with healing, and how they may make fatigue worse, for just $49.

    Bill Gasiamis 10:37

    This five-part series of more than five hours of interviews with full PDF transcripts for download mp3 is for download, and videos will give you everything that you need to know about the five foods to avoid and why the modules include eight reasons to quit sugar after a stroke. seven reasons to quit caffeine after a stroke, eight reasons to quit gluten after a stroke, six reasons to quit dairy after a stroke, and six reasons to quit alcohol after a stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 11:09

    And probably that is one of the most important things that you have to and should quit after a stroke. If it’s interfering with your recovery, visit recoveryafterstroke.com/courses. For this and other specifically designed short and easy-to-understand courses that are made by a stroke survivor for stroke survivors.

    Bill Gasiamis 11:31

    Once again, you’ll get more than five hours of content, all audio is available to download in mp3 format for listening to the full transcript of all the content to take notes on or read instead of listening to presented by a stroke survivor four stroke survivors. also presented by a trained nutritionist and performance coach, you will also get 24 hours of access and lifetime access to courses purchased.

    Bill Gasiamis 11:57

    And you’ll be able to interact with yours truly, in the comments section. Go to recoveryafterstroke.com/courses to check them out now. Yeah, and what happened to you is rare brain hemorrhages are rare. And you know what’s even more rare people surviving them, that’s even more rare. So tell me a little bit about what happened to you. How’d you get to be in the hospital?

    Liam Bonar 12:23

    So, like I said, I’m 34 years old now. So nine years ago would have been 25 massage the 60s before my 26th birthday. So I had just had a normal weekend, you know, with friends, I think we had a barbecue. Can uh went to bed didn’t think too much of it, you know, had a couple of drinks, nothing, nothing excessive.

    Liam Bonar 12:50

    And all I remember that morning is waking up on the couch in the living room. And it was in the middle of summer scorching hot, not hot by Australian standards, but by London standards is there 34 degrees Celsius or something like that, that are

    Bill Gasiamis 13:11

    just getting started.

    Liam Bonar 13:13

    Yeah, exactly. But I distinctly remember lying on the couch and just being confused. And there’ll be enough fly like a blue ball flying around the ceiling, and it kept appearing and disappearing. And then it would appear, you know, the other side of the room and then disappear. And it was just such a strange experience. But of course, I didn’t realize that time because I was completely delirious.

    Liam Bonar 13:41

    I didn’t realize at the time that I had central field visual loss. So I mean, I’ve been you know, almost entirely blind in the center of my second vision. So that was the first symptom, I suppose that kind of became apparent. I then don’t know how he did this. But I then dragged myself into the work. Walked, you know, walked into work, which is, you know, the half-hour walk, and sat down at the computer screen.

    Liam Bonar 14:12

    And they couldn’t log into the computer couldn’t work. The mouse couldn’t work, the keyboard couldn’t you know, but because I was so confused, I still just couldn’t make sense of, you know, you know, to me, it was just like, well, that’s strange. You know, like, I can’t log in and the person I was working with at the time was a really big design agency I was working so I was freelancing was kind of like our contract I suppose.

    Liam Bonar 14:38

    The person that I was that was responsible for me at the time kind of said you know Okay, thank you should maybe go home like you know, you don’t look well kind of thing. And from there, you know when I’ve saved funds my mom because I just didn’t know what to do. I was so confused perfectly. And exactly, and she said, you know, I think she suspected it was maybe having like a visual migraine or something like that.

    Liam Bonar 15:08

    And then really wisely kind of said, you know, why don’t you go to the optician? So, to myself, the optician kind of looked into my eyes and said, Your eyes are absolutely fine. And this was kind of the moment where things started to fall into place. So he looked terrified, wrote 100 A letter sealed it put me in a taxi straight to the hospital.

    Liam Bonar 15:39

    I said, give this, you know, to the person on the desk, when you get in there spoke to the taxi driver met with the taxi driver kinda didn’t want an ambulance to put me straight in a taxi, because it was one of those. So that was the Eye Hospital, which was close by so it was kind of an easy thing, but they are they are part of UCLH as well.

    Liam Bonar 16:00

    So which as you know, is probably the best place you could be arguably, for a brain hemorrhage and London to the UK. So, you know, from the point of handing that over, and the person, you know, opening it and reading, which must have been a strange experience for them. You know, I was quite quickly whisked off, to the night cricket sharpener, and then the rest is history.

    The process of getting to the hospital

    Bill Gasiamis 16:31

    Yeah, it’s really interesting to hear that your process to get to hospitals is quite rapid, that’s awesome. Most people fluff around and take the time. And because you’re having a stroke, you can’t work out what the right thing to do is and you make all these excuses, and you justify everything. And this particular doctor has done an amazing job, when you’ve gotten there to get your eyes checked, they’ve gone.

    Bill Gasiamis 17:04

    It’s it’s not your eyes, therefore it must be in your illogical straight into a cab. And immediately to the hospital. So when you’re in the hospital, you don’t know what’s happening yet you just know that it’s pretty serious. This guy was concerned. So you’re in hospital. And then they came back to you after a little while with the results with the news? How did they break it to you?

    Liam Bonar 17:30

    So I think it was pretty obvious for them, because, you know, they must have seen, you know, similar types of admission. I would imagine. I think the moment that it started to become obvious to me was when I was taken down for my second MRI because, at this point, they still thought it was bleeding. Taken down, I think it was like two o’clock in the morning or something by this point, you know, there was nobody else about basically.

    Liam Bonar 18:00

    So it was me and me and a nurse. And she was gonna feel me down with the porter to be scanned, and she just burst into tears. She just looked at me and burst into tears. Fast forward, you know, so my wife. No. So I’ve not been married before my wife, my wife used to work in stroke units she’s a nurse.

    Liam Bonar 18:26

    So she kind of said, well, listen, that only happens when they’re convinced that you’re going to die you know, they tend to know that know the trajectory of things. So, you know, it’s one it’s one of these situations that you know, other time, you know, you just think oh my god, you know, this must be serious.

    Liam Bonar 18:46

    But yeah, I mean, from there, you know, it was it was very much a case of, you know, scans, lots of MRIs that day. I think I had six MRIs or something when I was in there because from my understanding they just what to be sure that well, they damaged it correctly, but also that it wasn’t still bleeding.

    Liam Bonar 19:09

    And, you know, thankfully, you know, at Cana sort itself out, I suppose, and stop bleeding. And yeah, I kind of see it as a bit of a miracle, because I think you know, it’s one of these, you know, very lucky to work it survive it in the first place. also lucky to kind of feel nine years later, you know, be you know, have almost no symptoms or repercussion. So yeah, I’m so thankful and appreciative.

    Bill Gasiamis 19:42

    Fair enough. So while we were while you were chatting, I was. I just searched interest cerebral brain hemorrhage, which is what you’ve had on Google. I’m laughing because I’m nervous. I don’t know why I’m nervous. Interest cerebral brain hemorrhages.

    Bill Gasiamis 19:59

    bleeding into the brain tissue is the second most common cause of stroke 50 to 30% of strokes in fact, and the most deadly blood vessels carry blood to the blood vessels carry blood to and from brain, arteries or veins can rupture either from abnormal pressure or abnormal development or trauma. Did you have either abnormal pressure, like blood pressure, abnormal development, like maldeveloped blood vessels, or trauma?

    Liam Bonar had a cavernoma

    Liam Bonar 20:35

    Yeah, so my condition, I suppose. So I didn’t know this, but I was born with a cavernoma. So that’s an odd clustering of veins, the way it’s commonly described as the shape like a raspberry essentially veins that, you know, would otherwise be straight, you know, they kind of cluster together and it causes this weird lump, I suppose. It does end the word oma, which I believe everything else, oma is a tumor that’s not cancerous.

    Liam Bonar 21:15

    They’re not the were believed to grow, although, I believe that kind of the thinking on that, but possibly changed in that time. But yeah, you know, the story I was kind of told by the neurologist was, if you have a bleed via cavernoma, the longer that goes on, the less likely it is to happen.

    Liam Bonar 21:41

    So it gets less and less likely every year. So the first year is kind of the danger zone, I suppose once you’re over that, it’s less and less likely, less and less likely. So I was always quite, you know, that almost gave me kind of goals.

    Liam Bonar 21:57

    And, you know, something taken I look forward to it’s like, well, you know, like, I’m still here, you know, during the recovery, and everything else is like, it can only get easier from here. And that was something I think that kind of took through, I suppose the whole your whole journey.

    Bill Gasiamis 22:11

    With the cavernoma to remove it, did they do brain surgery?

    Liam Bonar 22:16

    No, it was inoperable because it’s it’s so deep, right? kind of behind the optic nerve. So basically, when the bleed happened the blood settled on the optic nerve, which caused brain damage which then caused visual loss. So it was right in amongst a central part, I suppose.

    Liam Bonar 22:43

    So they said, you know, the only option to the only option here of intervention is gamma ray, which radiation, so focused rays of radiation. But they decided that that wouldn’t be appropriate to kind of just see how that goes basically, and kind of just manage it from there.

    Bill Gasiamis 23:09

    How often do you go back for checkups? Or does that not happen anymore?

    Liam Bonar 23:14

    It doesn’t happen anymore. It was set to monthly and then went to yearly. And then approximately three years ago, four years ago, maybe we decided my neurologist, and I kind of decided that, to leave the stress of it to just not do it again. And basically, I’ll go back, I’ll get in touch with them if you know, symptoms return or anything.

    Liam Bonar 23:43

    So it’s kind of you know, it’s kind of a bit of a thumbs up, I’ve taken that as a bit of a thumbs up to say, you know, go on and go on with your life. Now, you know, this doesn’t have to have to wear you down. No, you know, you can you don’t have to think about this, and it genuinely isn’t something I think about every day.

    Liam Bonar 24:03

    No, you know, I still have the visual loss, albeit much, much, much reduced. You know, the thing I was told at the time was, you know, this seems like this will never go away, but your brain has an incredible ability to heal. And I just, I took it in but I just didn’t believe it. You know, I just didn’t think you know, you’re not going to heal like I’m not Spider-Man or something and I’m not going to heal suddenly.

    Liam Bonar 24:32

    My vision again, you know, but your brain compensates, you know, the area that I can’t see out of, you know, I I still when I go to the optician you know, they tell me I’ve got 2020 vision, you know, I can still drive a car, you know, I can do all these things. I can drive more bike, you know. Arguably that’s more dangerous.

    Liam Bonar 24:56

    But yeah, it it’s one of these things, you know, it’s, you know the things You’re told that the time, you know, actually what the mark and a true and I think, you know, actually being able to see somebody that’s come out the other end and say, you know that that was true, you know, your brain can heal and it can do amazing things that you just didn’t think it was it was capable of doing. It’s like On another note, it’s amazing.

    Bill Gasiamis 25:24

    It is there’s another thing that happens is, you know if people can heal emotionally. And then perhaps if you heal emotionally that might heal your mental state. And even if your physical state isn’t, quote, unquote, normal, you can heal, deeply heal, where it truly matters, like in the heart, and the mind, you achieve a level of recovery, that’s very different from what people talk about when they talk about recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 26:01

    You know, you damage your toe, you go to the hospital, they stitch it up for you, or they tell you it’s broken, or whatever they tell you. And they say it’s six weeks, and in six weeks, you’ll be fine. But it’s such a minor thing in comparison to your entire body, you never give it a second thought you just trust them, you believe them, and you’re weary of the corner of the couch next time, it’s no big deal.

    Bill Gasiamis 26:24

    And you might even smash it again on the couch. If you’re like me, and you don’t learn from the first incident of smashing your foot on the cow on the couch. So it’s like, Okay, that’s pretty inconsequential. I can just copy that and move on. Strokes are not inconsequential. It makes you think about things you never thought about before you think about your mortality, you think about how that’s going to impact other people.

    Bill Gasiamis 26:50

    You think about your life, you know, for me, My life flashed by me. And it was, oh my gosh, all I realized was that past me wasn’t the best kind of guy. Now, you wouldn’t know it by meeting me, you and I, we would have had the same conversation, I would have appeared the same. But my behavior was you’ll what was it? How do I describe it? It was as a 37-year-old, I was behaving often like an 18-year-old.

    Bill Gasiamis 27:21

    So there was an immaturity that wasn’t there, even though I was mature in years. And what the strike did is say to me, Listen, you better sort this stuff out. Because if you’re not here, you’re going to be a bad example of how somebody at 37 should behave when things go wrong, or when things get tough or whatever.

    Bill Gasiamis 27:44

    So had, I had that opportunity to go well, I’m going to work on myself, and I’m going to heal a few things. So that with my children, especially, so that if I do finish up after, after this next few months, or whatever, at least what I’ve done is made some things right, and then I can move on. If you’ve

    Intro 28:07

    had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. How long will it take to recover? Will I recover? What things should I avoid? In case I make matters worse, doctors will explain things.

    Intro 28:25

    But, if you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask. If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation. Stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you it’s called Seven Questions to Ask Your Doctor about Your Stroke.

    Intro 28:50

    These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition, but they’ll also help you take a more active role in your recovery, head to the website now, recoveryafterstroke.com and download the guide. It’s free.

    Bill Gasiamis 29:10

    And then what that did inadvertently without me realizing was because I had a long time at home on my own. After all, I had, you know nearly three years of the journey before I got to brain surgery. I had a lot of time to do personal development work, to go inward to search to discover.

    Bill Gasiamis 29:33

    And what I found was that the healing that I was doing was emotional. It was healing traumas from the past minor or major it doesn’t matter. It was healing them putting them to rest stopping me from dragging them forward. You know with my brother. Believe it or not. I was 37 Behaving like we did when we were young kids hadn’t realized that I was still playing this same role in my relationship with my brother that I did when I was a young kid.

    Bill Gasiamis 30:04

    And at 37. It’s just not appropriate. There’s no space for us to behave like pre-teenagers, or like teenagers, and not. And realizing that changing my behavior and healing that part of our relationship. And stopping being angry at him all the time for being himself helped me heal.

    Bill Gasiamis 30:26

    I think that continued through the next two or three years as I got to brain surgery. And then, by the time I got to brain surgery, the only thing I was dealing with was brain surgery. I let go of so much of the rubbish from the past, I just let it all go. And now I wasn’t complicating my recovery with dealing with the coming together of my past, and my present serious stroke issues.

    Bill Gasiamis 30:56

    And my forthcoming surgery, I wasn’t dealing with all those things together. And it made so much more space for just dealing with stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 31:06

    So dealt with a stroke, woke up, couldn’t walk, have to learn how to walk again, the only thing I was focusing on was learning how to walk again, learning how to use my left arm again, there was no need for me to be emotionally torn, and then behaving like that pre-teenage kid that didn’t have any resources to support himself and just act it out. I stopped doing that. And now I was behaving like a real adult, right?

    Bill Gasiamis 31:35

    So the whole, the whole journey of healing, I didn’t realize from regret, it came from regret that if I’ve fallen off the perch, these guys are going to think I was an idiot. And then, and then when I worked on resolving that stuff I healed and my stroke recovery wasn’t what I didn’t in my mind, it was a different thing than what it started as.

    Bill Gasiamis 32:05

    Yeah, there was a physical recovery. And even though I didn’t get all my physical parts back, my left side is still numb, and I still have balance issues. The cold still bothers me on the left side, way more than the right side. All these things that happened that I still live with. It’s not emotionally traumatic anymore.

    Bill Gasiamis 32:32

    It doesn’t traumatize me or re-traumatize me. So it just is it’s just different. And therefore, life is less hard. Even though it’s physically challenging. It’s not hard.

    Liam Bonar 32:49

    Yeah, that resonates with me as well. I think it certainly brings everything into really sharp relief and sharp focus. For me, it gave me tremendous perspective. You know, I kind of know that there were a couple of things. So for me, I think the so I’m a designer, a graphic designer, that that’s my, my job.

    Liam Bonar 33:13

    And I was almost obsessed with becoming the best graphic designer, you know, my job meant the world to me, and it still does, you know, I’m a business owner, and I run my studio. But it was unhealthy. You know, it was an unhealthy competition with myself, you know, I can I would come home, you know, I was working in really good studios, I was coming home late at night. And then I was doing jobs on the side.

    Liam Bonar 33:43

    You know, it was it was unhealthy. And I think there’s a certain level of you, you’ve got to do what you’ve got to do to, you know, when when you’re young and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, I think certainly having a hemorrhage, you know, it put all that stuff in perspective, and I kind of just took a step back, step back and thought, you know, what am I doing?

    Liam Bonar 34:09

    With my time, you know, you know, if you may not have that much time. And that question itself, you know, is a scary question to ask yourself, but yeah, I mean, do you want to be regarded as you know, the best you know, the best designer, but it’s not the most important thing? It isn’t. I’d rather be you know, a good son a good friend. No good dad, you know, that’s the stuff that matters. That’s the stuff that I think about, you know, now.

    Bill Gasiamis 34:40

    Being the best is such a myth, right, because it’s not measurable. Firstly, you cannot measure who’s the best at designing. It’s such a silly thing to aspire to. That being said when you’re young and dumb like we were once were, well, you do the best you can with the resources you have available to you.

    Bill Gasiamis 35:01

    And when you’re young and dumb, it’s like, the only resource you have is why if I want to succeed in this industry, I need to be the best. So I’m gonna go after it, it’s better than going, I’ve got to give you this one lamb, like, it’s better than going, I’m going to be mediocre at work.

    Bill Gasiamis 35:14

    And we’re going to turn up, I’m going to do a half-assed job, and then I’m going to blame the client for not paying me there is a there is a certain amount of brilliance in being 24. And going, I want to be the best designer, and then actually going after it, the skill in growing up and becoming wiser as you grow.

    Bill Gasiamis 35:36

    And you can be wise beyond your years or 24, if you’re lucky enough to fall, to go into that path of wisdom is the skill to go, what else do I need to do to be the best designer? So does the best designer just draw the best pictures? Build the best websites, the best pamphlets? Or are they also thought the best drawer and also the best emotionally intelligent person the most emotionally?

    Bill Gasiamis 36:04

    Are they the most caring person are they you know, encouraging to, the people who work for them, we can broaden the definition of what the best designer is, and add all these other attributes that we can work on. And it’s a great thing to aspire to. If it’s more than just I want to draw the best pictures ever. You know, like, who cares? No one wants you to draw the best pictures ever.

    Bill Gasiamis 36:34

    When they’re doing business with you, you know that the best pictures are just one part of the business deal. If you draw great pictures, but you’re an idiot, then when you go to the meeting with the client, they’re gonna go great pictures, but we don’t want to deal with this guy.

    What happens when the worst happens – Liam Bonar

    Liam Bonar 36:50

    Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that’s, you know, that’s one example of many kinds of ways. I suppose that I mean, you can describe it as maturity, I suppose, as something that, you know, is almost imposed on you, you know, as a result of trauma. There are lots of other other ways.

    Liam Bonar 37:11

    I mean, growing up, I mean, I, I suffered from health anxiety, you know, I always kind of as a kid, you know, it was kind of, like, weird gonna worry about, you know, what, if I get that, you know, a bit of heat, it’s COVID, you know, but yeah, I mean, it was almost one of those things.

    Liam Bonar 37:32

    It’s like, well, what happens when the worst happens, you know, and then the worst does happen, you know, so actually, you know, you just have to get on with it. So, I mean, that’s another thing that, you know, there’s no point in worrying about that stuff. You know, there’s just no point, you know, it’s not helpful. It’s not useful.

    Liam Bonar 37:51

    Yeah, it put it in perspective. And I’ve kind of mentioned a few times over the years to people, you know, they always kind of look at me, and I’ve heard a few times on your podcast that people say in it, but you’re the brain injury, and I talk about it as an injury, because that’s how it that’s the lens of what was going to try to look out for. It’s the best thing that ever happened to me. Oh, really?

    Bill Gasiamis 38:15

    Wow. Huge time. And I love it. Guess what? Before you go further, I just finished the first draft of my book, my book is called The Unexpected Way the Stroke Became The Best Thing That Ever Happened To Me. No slug, okay, the title might change. But that’s what the working title is at the moment.

    Bill Gasiamis 38:35

    And it interviews 10 People who say the same thing. And we all have various ranges, of impact after a stroke. And we all have a different path to stroke. And we will come from a different part of the world. It’s such a weird thing because I said that on the podcast probably two or three years ago.

    Bill Gasiamis 38:59

    And I caught myself saying it and then I got really curious, what the hell did I just say? So what the hell did you just say? Tell me, how is stroke? The best thing that ever happened to you?

    Liam Bonar 39:13

    It’s not something I would wish for someone, you know, to happen to. But I genuinely feel like I’m a better, more balanced, well-rounded person as a result. I think I’m healthier than I’ve ever been, ironically. Because I’m not aware of my health and limitations and things like that.

    Liam Bonar 39:37

    I think I’m happier. I just I just genuinely don’t come up here. You know, I’m, I’m comfortable of, you know, I’ve got a happy fulfilled life. I’ve got a great partner. You know, I’ve got a beautiful son, you know, proud of my work, you know, I just I’m happy with my law I think is the In a bit kind of dumbed down way of talking about, I

    Bill Gasiamis 40:02

    suppose, tent. Yeah, I’m

    Liam Bonar 40:05

    contented and fulfilled. I think it’s one of those things where I was always pushing for more, more and more, and more before. You know, I suppose you have to ask, you know, where to start kind of desire to become, you know, the best at something can come from, you know, that, you know, to try and achieve things and push and push and push.

    Liam Bonar 40:27

    And, you know, if you have to take a step back and look at what’s in front of you now, what the time is normal. You know, it’s beautiful. It’s really good. So, so yeah, I think I think that’s, that’s probably the probably the biggest, the biggest thing for me,

    Bill Gasiamis 40:43

    I want to, I want to focus on this for a little bit longer. So it wasn’t the best thing that ever happened to you when this all started. Okay. changed and shifted. Right. So what would have been the worst thing that has ever happened to you when it started?

    Liam Bonar 41:02

    Yeah, yeah.

    Bill Gasiamis 41:04

    Okay. See, that’s the interesting part that people don’t get when I hear when I say that to stroke survivors who are not at that stage where we’re at. Okay, they go, Well, no, hang on a sec strokes, the worst thing that ever happened to it, and I’m like, well, it was to me as well. I’m not saying that it was great.

    Bill Gasiamis 41:22

    On day one, it was shit on day one, there was shit, the second blade, it was terrible, the third blade. And it wasn’t any good at bloody surgery either. But then it started to evolve and change as I did the healing work. As I did this growth work I did this deeper search for my purpose and my meaning.

    Bill Gasiamis 41:48

    All those things started to evolve and allow me to think at a higher, what’s the word to think at a higher automated perspective, or to think at a place that 37-year-old Bill couldn’t possibly do it, I had to get to 41 or 42 to get there. And then when I got there, and I had that realization, it’s like, on reflection, comparing myself to who I was back then.

    Bill Gasiamis 42:21

    And seeing how far I’ve come. And none of this was how far I’ve come with surgery recovery, it was all about how far I’ve come as a person. This is the best thing that ever happened to me this thing triggered all these other amazing things to occur. And if I hadn’t been through that, I might still be 48. And as dumb as I was when I was 37. And that’d be sad.

    Liam Bonar 42:50

    Yeah, you don’t know what you don’t know. I mean, it’s as simple as that. And, and, you know, you talked about that as a trigger there. You know, I agree, you know, it kind of, it’s almost like hitting the fast forward button on, you know, life, you just have to think about the big things, you know, and you do, and I’m sure you know, anybody that’s had any kind of major trauma. And, you know, 10 years down the line nine years down the line will probably resonate. But

    Bill Gasiamis 43:21

    yeah, there are people there saying that heart attack was the best thing that happened to them that the cancer was that, you know, whatever was the best thing that ever happened, for sure. And often, it’s not because the experience is good. It’s because of the healing and the recovery. And the growth is amazing. It’s a post-traumatic growth. Journey. That’s what it is for me. Yeah.

    Liam Bonar 43:47

    Yeah. That’s, that’s a great way of summing that up. And I think, you know, you’d mentioned just a second ago about, you know, when it happened was the worst thing that happened. Yeah. And yeah, it was, definitely was.

    Liam Bonar 44:01

    And I think the, you know, just tapping into that, you know, the name of the podcast know that the actual recovery journey, you know, there was, there were good bits, there were bad bits, you know like it heads and there are things that I’m incredibly proud of myself with the way I handled certain things. And then there are other things that I got wrong, you know, I know I got wrong. And looking back.

    Liam Bonar 44:24

    So I mean, in some of the Gospels, the negative side of things was that I felt ashamed of myself. You know, I felt you know, I didn’t I hid away. I didn’t want people to see me, you know, I didn’t want people to think that I was weak, you know, I don’t want people to see me vulnerable.

    Liam Bonar 44:46

    And, you know, it’s part of that, I suppose, is being a young guy, you know, like, most young guys probably would have an element of that. But I think as well it’s, you know, the Can I didn’t have a kind of network in London suppose that I could be vulnerable with.

    Liam Bonar 45:08

    And that’s, that’s, that’s something that I think, you know, hadn’t considered, you know, because you don’t think about that when you’re 25 years old, you know, what do I do if I become seriously ill here and, you know, I’ve got a family around me, you know, I’ve got lots of, you know, great colleagues and things like that.

    Liam Bonar 45:28

    But you know, it’s not the same, you know, it’s not the same. And I’m lucky that, you know, Scotland to the northeast of Scotland, where I’m from a small city called Lundeen, or it’s only 500 miles away from London, so it’s not, you know, you know, I’m not I wasn’t in Sydney, you know, it’s not, it’s not a train, airplane journey, you know.

    Liam Bonar 45:52

    But I think that kind of thing of vulnerability and not wanting to be seen to be weakest last, something I look back on, and thank, you know, I wish I hadn’t done, you know, I wish I had just been a bit more open to, you know, people can come and see me and things like that.

    Liam Bonar 46:13

    But then the flip side is, you know, that, you know, fast forward a couple of months, you know, that I’m going to look at myself and thinking, you know, I, you know, I’ve come to terms with this, you know, this, this is something that’s happened.

    Getting back to work after a stroke

    Liam Bonar 46:29

    And, you know, I got back to work as soon as I could, you know, be reduced level, I think that helped me tremendously. I mean, marks driver for me. And it still is, that, that just helps, you know, phenomenally, actually enable, slowly, slowly, slowly get better, you know, doing my job again, you know, day by day, making better progress.

    Bill Gasiamis 46:58

    The thing about that is this, a lot of employers don’t give people the opportunity to go back to work to get back to work. They’re doing such a disservice. Because a lot of people define themselves with the work that they do when you ask them. Yeah, look, I did too, when you ask people that question. Hi, how are you? What are you? The next question is what do you do? What’s your name? And what do you do?

    Bill Gasiamis 47:22

    I mean, tell we all go about introducing ourselves, and then you kind of get a feel for the lay of the land of that conversation by what that person responds as I am a graphic designer, and then Oh, that’s interesting. Tell me about that. Oh, yeah. Well, I have a company and we’d have clients, and it’s okay.

    Bill Gasiamis 47:41

    And that’s how you identify because that’s what you answer, you answer that question. That way. You don’t say, you don’t say I’m lame. You don’t say I’m Liam, who is, you know, 24. In the future, I want to be a dad, and I want to be married, I have a great network of people around me, you just go straight into this, this is what I do.

    Bill Gasiamis 48:03

    So when you’re not doing that, identity gets impacted, because you can’t go and do that thing. And we and you haven’t had enough time to adjust your identity because a stroke happens one day. And before that, you were this version of Liam, now you’re that version of Liam, and there hasn’t been enough time to adjust.

    Bill Gasiamis 48:25

    So people often feel the doom of, I’ll never be able to do X, Y, and Zed. You know, fill in the blanks after that. The reality is, if you just haven’t given yourself time, you can still be a designer the day after you’ve had the stroke. Just be a designer who has to heal and recover. Why don’t you just be that one?

    Bill Gasiamis 48:46

    And but we’re so short in wiping it in writing, we’re so quick to just wipe ourselves off the face of the earth. Fully you Yeah, you know, give yourself a little bit of time, do the healing phase. Now. Now it’s time to heal. And then once you’ve healed, use your designer skills, if you can never design ever again, to apply them to a new thing that you can do that you will be competent at and that people will want to pay for or want to support you in or whatever.

    Bill Gasiamis 49:21

    And it’s just such a bizarre thing that we do now. I did it as well, right? But I’ll never do that again. Because I never did. I’ve never described myself as Bill the painter anymore because we have a property maintenance company. I won’t describe myself as I’m Bill. What do you do? I have a podcast. I’m a painter. I do this I do that I do. You know if you want to know what I do? That’s a big conversation. I do so much.

    Bill Gasiamis 49:49

    But if you want to ask a better question, I’ll answer that as well. It’s the thing is, the person you meet also asks a lazy question. What’s your name? What do you do? You No, I think we could all do better in those conversations.

    Bill Gasiamis 50:03

    But I, yeah, look, I, I appreciate you saying what you’re saying because this is what’s beautiful, you’ve done it at 24, you’ve started to evolve and have this real great awakening at 24, it’s going to hold you in such good stead for the next 30 or 40 years. Because if you’ve come so far already, I can only imagine how amazing of a dad you’re going to be husband, you’re going to be a son, a colleague, that you’re gonna be because you’ve had this journey.

    Bill Gasiamis 50:38

    And it’s, there’s nothing but gifts in it, it’s shit to start with. But there’s nothing but gifts if you just know where to look. And if you’re, if you have faith, that there are gifts, whether you’re religious or not, whether you believe in religious faith, or just faith, there are gifts there, you just have to give them time also to emerge, not to go after them, let them emerge, they kind of happen counter-intuitively to other things.

    Bill Gasiamis 51:07

    you want to be a great designer, well, you have to design more, you have to learn more you have to do what you want to be, you don’t want to have a great lesson from stroke, you don’t have to do anything, you just have to sit and let it emerge, and then embrace it when it comes.

    Bill Gasiamis 51:21

    And be comfortable with being the kind of person who deserves that kind of beautiful thing to happen after such a shift thing you’ve been through a short time. Now just let the lovely things emerge take them on and implement them in your life. And then be the example. I thought, you know, what I need to be as the example to my children, and the people around me how you behave when you’re dealing with a life-threatening situation.

    The importance of having a network to support your recovery

    Liam Bonar 51:51

    Yeah, thank you for saying that. I mean, I think that’s that that’s, you know, humbling, and nice to hear as well. And I, yeah, I think it’s one of these things that, yeah, you just, you kind of just have to roll with the punches a bit, don’t, you know, you kind of just have to take, take it in your stride.

    Liam Bonar 52:14

    And I suppose, you know, going back to one of the first things I say it’s, you know, kind of came on here about like agenda and things like that, you know, I suppose for me, you know, what I would hate to think, you know, if there’s, you know, another kind of people in there, in their 20s and younger than 30s, and 40s, you know, your heart, whoever, you know, that kind of thing can do it, you know, I don’t think I can get through this.

    Liam Bonar 52:36

    It is like, you just have to keep going, you know, you just have to keep pushing yourself, keep pushing forward, and you will gather you will,

    Bill Gasiamis 52:46

    you said something really interesting, which was your network, you didn’t have a network around you in London, that was going to be conducive to supporting you the way that you needed after a stroke, and we’re the perfect network for before a stroke, you can go to the pub with them, you can learn from them, you can be mentored by them.

    Bill Gasiamis 53:06

    You know, you could you could learn your craft around those people with that network. But then they’re not the right network for stroke recovery, and nor should they be because they’ve never had a stroke, and we don’t want them to have a bloody stroke, you know, yeah, but then that’s where it’s important.

    Bill Gasiamis 53:24

    You need to keep that network there so that you remain part of that. So that your identity is still able to be nurtured as a designer so that you can be a post-stroke designer.

    Bill Gasiamis 53:36

    And then also you need to expand your network and bring people in that are going to help you on the healing journey on the recovery journey, that they might be able to help you with things like meditation, yoga, all the woo-woo weird stuff that you thought that’s not for me, I don’t do that kind of stuff.

    Bill Gasiamis 53:54

    you know, they’re the things that you need to start to embrace the things that you had a negative idea about that were possibly beneficial to you that as a 24-year-old, you’re going I’m a bloke, we don’t do that we go to the pub, and we drink our sorrows, you know, out of the out of existence, you know.

    Bill Gasiamis 54:17

    So it’s like, a really important thing to get to the point where, where people realize that the current network that they have, may not be suitable for the healing journey.

    Bill Gasiamis 54:29

    And that doesn’t mean you discard them. It just means you add more people in and you find time for other people that you wouldn’t normally associate with that will get you to understand you that will understand and you will appreciate that they understand you this other beautiful network. They’re great. We love them. They got us this far. Yeah, let’s just expand. Yeah,

    Liam Bonar 54:55

    I and you know, like my friends from that time. You know, they’re still my friends, you know, they, of course, they are, you know, and it’s, it’s not a, it’s certainly not a criticism of anyone or anything, I think, you know, I would open that out to relationships as well, you know, my relationship at the time, you know, it kind of broke down afterward, like, you know, but it’s one of these things, like, when you’re young, like, how, how are you meant to navigate that?

    Liam Bonar 55:26

    You know, it’s, it’s a difficult thing, you know, so you need the right people at the right time, and things like that as well. So interestingly, the best asset I suppose I added to my network, because I got a dog was, that was an incredible, incredible thing to you to happen, you know, so So I got a puppy.

    Liam Bonar 55:52

    When I was a little bit further along the journey, and yeah, I mean, yeah, when you talk about, like, emotional support, and things like that, you know, we didn’t get her an as a therapy dog necessarily, but, but Bloody hell, she became a therapy dog. was fantastic. You know, it was just a fantastic, fantastic thing to do. So

    Bill Gasiamis 56:19

    yeah, that’s excellent. So tell me a little bit about where you’re at now, then. So now, life’s changing. Things are getting interesting. Where are you now?

    Liam Bonar 56:32

    So yeah, nine years on. Happy content, done, I don’t have you know, too much in the way of, you know, the implication of the hemorrhage. So I get fatigue, you know, I still have fatigue, but still kind of sneaks up, sometimes I get, I get tired more quickly. And when I get tired, it’s like, get hit by a bus, you know, it’s one of those things, but, you know, I can still go for a run, you know, things like that I can easily do my work and everything else.

    Liam Bonar 57:09

    So, you know, it’s not something even that’s not a barrier. Now, you know, my eyesight has recovered, you know, to the point where I forget about it, you know, it’s not, it’s not an issue anymore. The memory loss and things like that, that. You know, being able to access memories, I suppose, is probably a better way of describing it.

    Liam Bonar 57:34

    It’s no longer an issue. I’ve never had problems with short-term memory rent in the car, but it’s more like the period around the stroke, and a couple of years before that, strangely, are still very fragmented. There are things I remember, and there are things that don’t, but that’s fine.

    Liam Bonar 57:53

    You know, that’s, that’s fine. So make new memories, things like that. So I still get my words jumbled up when I get tired. Afraid, hard sometimes to, you know, pick the right word, you know, the first thing that we think you’ll be fine, just know that you know, when you get to this nine o’clock at night, you know, that’s, that’s when the word starts getting a bit lost. But yeah, I mean, aside from that, you know, no problem at all.

    Bill Gasiamis 58:23

    Yeah, that’s very familiar, your, what you’re experiencing with fatigue, and all those types of things are very familiar, I still have bouts of fatigue, but the majority of my day is good. And I know, I know when the fatigue coming, so I know to adjust and settle down and do less at that time.

    Learning how to be more aware of your body

    Bill Gasiamis 58:47

    So that’s good. I’ve learned how to be more aware of my body and what it’s telling me to pay attention to it and then respond, which I have never done before. You know, I never did that. Even at 37. I never did that. So now I get to the point where I’m going, Okay, it’s three o’clock in the afternoon and feeling pretty good.

    Bill Gasiamis 59:11

    Four o’clock, I’m starting to get a little bit fatigued, tired. And then by five or six o’clock, it doesn’t matter what is on the to-do list. If I’m having one of those days, it doesn’t get done. It just gets put to the side and it waits till tomorrow and forgets about it. And my memory serves me pretty well.

    Bill Gasiamis 59:27

    Sometimes I forget obvious things, or, you know, things that I had to do a couple of weeks ago, I forgot to get on a podcast that I had booked with somebody. Even though it was in my diary, even though I knew about it for weeks.

    Bill Gasiamis 59:46

    I went to bed the night before, didn’t put my alarm on didn’t think about the podcast, and instead of waking up at 6:30 in the morning, I think it was a UK person to be on Zoom with the UK person or completely forgot about them and Uh, all I did was apologize profusely, later on. And we booked it, you know, it’s no big deal. So those things happen. How’s family life? Tell me about your family life. Your young, growing family?

    Liam Bonar 1:00:16

    Yeah, couldn’t be better. I mean, my partner is fantastic. Strangely, we shared a birthday. So it’s kind of written in the stars type thing. Wow. Like funny. That is very cool. Yeah. So yeah. So I mean, we’re kind of going great Guns and Sons five months old. Nikko, kind of, you know, what more? Can you say?

    Liam Bonar 1:00:46

    You know, just, it’s great. It’s just really? I mean, these are the things that I worried about at the start, you know, will I be able to have kids? Will I be able to, you know, will I be old enough? You know, they will like, what grew up? You know, things like that? Yeah. Yeah, happy. Yeah.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:11

    One of the things about kids, he’s always a young dad. So I first was 22. And my first son was born. He’s 26 now. And four years later, my youngest was born. And, you know, talk about what strike did to you? Woke you? Well, I woke up another part of you that forced growth and development and all these things onto you.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:42

    Well, that’s, let me tell you, that’s what exactly what I kid at 22 does. It just, it just says to pull your head out of your ass, and just go and work it out and find solutions to all these new problems that you now have?

    Liam Bonar 1:02:00

    Yeah, we don’t have time for that. Just do it.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:02:03

    And I thought I had problems before my son was born. You know, I thought I had problems as a 1920 21-year-old, which is fair enough. And then, and then the shit hit the fan. And it was like, All right. Get going, man. So I got going, it’s exactly what I did. The thing about it is I didn’t realize that at some point, you can level off, you can take a step back. And that was what the stroke did. To me, it gave me that next lesson.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:02:34

    It was alright, you’ve been going great guns now. From the age of 22 to 37, you haven’t stopped for a minute to take a breath. You haven’t, you haven’t taken time off, you haven’t gone on a trip overseas, you haven’t done anything. And it could be all over for you. Now’s the time to stop, take a breath reflect, see how far you’ve come, and do something different and change some things.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:02

    So you know, that’s, I’ve done it the other way around, compared to you you’re doing I think whatever. It’s just flipped over. You’re you’ve done the Brain Injury early on, and you’re doing the family things. And yeah, I reflect on my time, being a young dad and being at, at some points working three jobs, to try and cover everything right, make sure we were able to eat and nappies and all that stuff.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:33

    And, the one thing I didn’t do is I never got back, I never felt bad about the set situation that I had to go and do the three jobs, but I never felt What a shit thing this is, and look how bad it is. I always thought at some point, I’m going to get a job that earns more money per hour. So I don’t have to do three low-paying jobs. One after the other or all day, every day, seven days a week.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:03

    That kind of gave me that opportunity to start my own business and realize that if I go work for myself, I’ll be able to earn more and therefore work fewer hours and then be home more often. This is basically what happened, you know, like, it was the first part of my life that it made me realize that life is not self-centered.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:28

    It’s not just about me. And that’s it. And the challenge of kids raising kids was an amazing it was an amazing journey into kind of knowing how to navigate stroke because it was a similar shit show. Early on, and then it’s like I had an example of how to overcome you know, financial adversity, how to overcome All the adversities that come with being a young dad and having your wife at home with a child and a mortgage, and a car lease and all that stuff.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:12

    But what I love about your path to being a dad is you’re doing it in your early 30s. And you’ve had all these times of growth and appreciation, and you had all these lessons that you’re going to bring into the way you approach fatherhood and family life. And I just think it’s a beautiful thing now that you get to have this perspective that few people have your data, as well, and you’re a deep thinker. So you’re thinking about it differently?

    The importance of being present as a father

    Liam Bonar 1:05:47

    Yeah, I mean, I look at this in the same way, it’s incredibly, incredibly important for me to be present, as adults, you know, as a father to be there.

    Liam Bonar 1:06:02

    You know, for my wife, as well, you know, there’s foreign to me, you know, and I think, you know, post kind of post-COVID, as well, you know, that, you know, hybrid working and all that kind of stuff, I work from home, you know, I’m in my home office, you know, right now, the majority of my work is done from home, so I can go down the stairs, and I can spend that hour at lunchtime.

    Liam Bonar 1:06:31

    You know, with the two of them, you know, well, well, then partners on maternity leave, you know, it’s important for me, and I really cherish those moments and everything else. And I think that perspective that we talked about, you know, what’s important, and, you know, works dollars, and, is important to me, allows me to live, you know, and pay for things and everything else.

    Liam Bonar 1:07:01

    And I’m every bit as good a designer as I was before I just do it a much smarter way, you know, I use my time more efficiently. So that I can also be a good dad, hopefully, and things like that. So. So yeah, I’m excited. I’m excited for the future. And I’m excited for bottle brands, and you will the next 10 years, the next 10 years.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:07:29

    Before you know it, it’ll be 10. All right, it’ll go like that. There’s no doubt about it. And a 26 I miss my kids when they were young. Oh my gosh, do I miss them? And not only do I miss them? They fled the coop, they don’t need me anymore. Well, they might not that’s the thing. And I’m certainly not going to be the winner.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:07:59

    You’re going to have kids, when are you going to get married kind of guy, right? And look into that. But oh my god, do I miss them, I miss them. Because they, I’ve done the job, I’ve made them independent, I’ve let them just go out and be themselves and discover the world the way that they have to do it. And as proud of that as I am, there’s a part of me that just goes oh my gosh, I wish I could just have them back for a little bit.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:08:30

    You know, every so often the 26 they’re bloody adults, you know, there’s no chance they’re going to, and we’re going to have him back in that way. But the first 10 years for me, were a bit of a blur because of the amount of work that I was doing. And I missed out on some of that stuff that I think is important that I wish I had done.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:08:53

    What I don’t wish I’d done differently I did the best I could, but I just did. But I didn’t pay attention to how precious those 10 years are. And it’s, you don’t know what you don’t know. Yeah. And then they go, then they go, and then you reflect on them. 26 years later, it takes a while to reflect on it.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:09:15

    You then reflect on it in the following 10 years. You reflect on it a little bit further down, usually when they move out of home and it’s like okay, all right. My heart is just going huh? As I settled down we did all right, you know, we did the best we could they’re still close to us, and they still love us. They just don’t need us. That’s why we made him independent. That’s the whole plan.

    Liam Bonar 1:09:40

    But in a different way, you know, networks and the right thing at the right time. Different rule isn’t it? It’s a different dynamic and you know, like I’m the same with my parents like I’m close to my mom and dad now Well, oh, so I’ve been but you know, the relationships different as an adult, you know, and for them as grandparents and, and everything else. So it’s interesting. So journey isn’t it?

    Bill Gasiamis 1:10:12

    It’s a lovely journey, the grandparents thing is, I found my parents kind of got a second wind in their late in the early 50s and 60s When the four grandchildren came along because my brother has two kids as well. And it’s really interesting now to see my dad, you know, we used to winch to my dad and say to him, and I stopped, you know, we’ll work out we’ll get a taxi, or we don’t need to be picked up from the airport at five in the morning or any of that stuff.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:10:45

    But he’s, but if he’s not doing that for us, then he’s not feeling like he’s able to support his kids anymore. And therefore his grandkids, right? So I’ve come to terms with him being over, over supportive even at 81 Lady and doing all these things. And when he says that sometimes my parents and I are so blessed, right? How blessed Am I that my parents don’t live too far away? So my mum says, You know what, I’m just gonna whip up a three-course meal for you.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:11:18

    And it’s like, do you want it? Do you want me to bring it over at six o’clock on the dot? Yeah. In the past, I would say to her, Listen, don’t trouble yourself, it’s too much trouble or whatever. Now I’m like, Shit, yeah, you cooked me a three-course meal, you bring it exactly at six o’clock, I’m gonna sit down on my ass, and I’m just going to eat it. And I’m going to love every minute of it. Thank you so much. It’s a different way to experience them.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:11:45

    And rather than because they old and frail ish, or whatever, I’m not going to tell them not to do that. I don’t care if it’s hard, I don’t care if it’s difficult for her to stand up. I don’t care if it’s painful. What I care about is that she feels that she’s useful that she’s doing her bit that she has something to occupy her mind.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:12:07

    And my dad can be a taxi driver for the rest of his life. If he wants to be he can drive until his 100 As long as you can drive properly. I’m more than happy to have him do a free Uber run with food at six o’clock and bring me my perfect three-course meal. It’s great. Isn’t it great? That that they can do that? Absolutely.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:12:31

    There’s no more I’m, I’ve stopped telling them don’t do this. And don’t do that rest and, you know, settle down and whatever. The only thing I tell my dad is don’t get on Bloody ladders, for God’s sake, do not climb ladders. That’s the only thing I tell him. And he listens to at least that much. And you’ll call me.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:12:48

    And we can get that sorted. But when it comes to all the chores, the gardening, all the stuff that’s too hard for them to do my mum complains about that everyone complains about it. So I know why you’re complaining. And it’s not because you have to do it. It’s because you wish your body was able to cope better.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:13:08

    You know, and it’s a great thing for us as well. I complain about doing the hard things because I prefer my body to be able to cope with it more. But it doesn’t stop me from doing them, I still do them. My left side goes numb, and then I can’t feel other than my balance off. That’s the price I pay every single day for waking up and going to work. But as if I’m not going to go to work.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:13:35

    As if I’m not going to Yeah, because if I’m not going to push myself. And when somebody says to me, Hey, on Friday, when they call me at 6 pm on Friday, and it’s at 630 We have to be somewhere that they’ve just decided to go to spur of the moment. I’m dropping absolutely everything and I’m going there. I don’t give a shit what I you know, what I thought I was going to do the rest of the night.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:13:59

    If you’re invited me out, and we’re going out to have fun enjoy ourselves. And it’s usually a quiet drink or, and I didn’t drink anyway. But I just sort of hang around with people who drink. It’s usually a quiet drink or music or a band or a cafe or whatever. I’m going I am tired. But that type of connection re-energizes me while I’m there.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:14:22

    It gives me an emotional recharge. And the physical pain and suffering go away because I’m making this emotional connection. And I’ve been able to separate the difference between what they all want, and what each interaction with a human being gives me now. And then there’s the person who would ring and say, Hey, do you want to go out and I know that person is just going to chew my ear off. Tell me about all the problems in the world all the issues.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:14:53

    And I’m not going I’m not going with that person. I don’t want to have a draining conversation with that person because my energy as a stroke survivor is limited daily, and that person is just going to drain out of me the energy that I’ve gotten, I’m not up for that.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:15:09

    You need to find somebody else to get rehabilitated from. I’m the kind to rehabilitate you and listen to all your problems to know. Yeah, I’ve also learned that nuanced way now to interact with people that benefits all of us, not just me and them me separately and them separately.

    How art is a development device

    Liam Bonar 1:15:32

    Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It’s kind of a development device, isn’t it?

    Bill Gasiamis 1:15:36

    It is, it is. Because we can’t just forever give and give and give, you’ve got to receive back you got to separate yourself. It’s what we said about the community, the type of community, the appropriate community, you know, you have to enhance it and grow it and bring people in.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:15:57

    So your son is what’s his name? Nico, Nico? And is he going to be a footballer? What’s he going to do? Like, what’s the what’s the one thing that that’s gonna make him kind of aspire to or be or follow his dreams and

    Liam Bonar 1:16:19

    whatever he wants, honestly, whatever. So I mean, I take him swimming. So he’s five months old, I’ve taken him swimming since he was six weeks old, whatever week. So there’s classes that you can do here that are, like supervised, and everything else, but it’s only half an hour at a time.

    Liam Bonar 1:16:38

    But we go every week, sometimes twice a week at the minute, and he loves it. So if he wants to keep that up, that’s great. If he wants to, if he wants to play football, he’ll play football. I’ve spent four years in art school.

    Liam Bonar 1:16:53

    So I’d like him to at least have an interest in drawing and things like that, or some form of creativity, or something like that. But yeah, my thing is, I’ll just expose them to as much stuff as I can. And then what sticks, sticks, and what doesn’t, whatever. You’ll find your way, I suppose.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:17:19

    Yeah. Tell me about the art, school, and creativity. What does that bring into your life other than your job? And how? And has that been helpful in your recovery? Because you’re gonna hear about, and I’m probably going to more about this, but you hear about the creativity lights up one part of the brain and the other things light up the other part of the brain? And tell me about like, how did it help you with your recovery?

    Liam Bonar 1:17:51

    Yeah, I don’t want to use a horrible analogy, I want to like paint a picture of, you know, me sitting in a room and painting my way out of a can a nasty situation, because there was nothing like that. But my job as a creative designer is essentially problem-solving.

    Liam Bonar 1:18:12

    So, you know, actually having to think about something deeply, really, really deeply understand that, to solve it. It’s an analytical way of looking at the world, categorizing things, sorting out and making sense of it, and then projecting it back in our way that our understand also that people understand. That’s my job is like a conduit between difficult information and helping people understand that.

    Liam Bonar 1:18:43

    So that was, that was kind of one thing. And a really practical sense. I kind of painstakingly and probably I wouldn’t recommend doing this. But because of my visual loss. I, every week, once a week, had a wall chart. And I plotted where I could see American tea. And I did that over about 18 months.

    Liam Bonar 1:19:12

    And I documented it. And I put it into a file and I shared it with the hospital. And then at the time, he had said we’ve never seen anything like this, we’ve only seen from a medical sense, but what I would do is I would take the area I couldn’t see and impose it on my face, for example, and say, when I’m looking at the face, this is what I see. I can’t see the right-hand side of your face. If I look at the center of your nose, then I can’t see your eye.

    Liam Bonar 1:19:44

    I can’t see if you’re smiling on that side or anything else, you know. And it was the first time that it made it because my symptoms were visual. That was the main thing. It made it obvious to people and understand what I was seeing and what I was experiencing. So that was helpful, that was certainly helpful.

    Liam Bonar 1:20:08

    And then I suppose it just in terms of, you know, the day-to-day stuff, you know, we’ve talked about kind of problem-solving. And for me, the way I kind of looked at that was around, you know, kind of benchmarking progress. And you know, if I can get even just a little bit better at this law school in the right direction, and I know I’m going the right way.

    Liam Bonar 1:20:30

    And, you know, if I can, you know, stay awake and watch another episode of, or another game of football or whatever, you know, anything like, that’s a silly analogy, but silly example, but you know, things like that, you know, and that, to me is like, well, this is the problem. And here’s a couple of ways that, you know, we’re working hard to solve it.

    Liam Bonar 1:20:51

    That’s how I would kind of look at the perspective isn’t it as a different way of looking at things that’s that’s the way that you know, design and design was talked about, it’s like, you look at things differently. Most people look at things, designers are trained, or naturally, you know, we’ll do that we’ll look at it laterally, you’ll try and draw an abstract from it’ll try and, you know, bridge piles together, and everything else.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:21:16

    I love that. I love the application of your training in stroke recovery. And then to, to clearly describe to somebody how you feel with that image, or what you see is just, that’s a game changer because now they completely totally understand exactly what your deficits are like.

    Liam Bonar 1:21:41

    Yeah, and I’m much better at visualizing something than verbalizing it. So for me, it’s quicker and more accurate to just show you what I’m seeing than trying to describe it, and then some of the interpreters and

    Bill Gasiamis 1:21:58

    it takes the interpretation out of the out of the just creates a clearer picture of where exactly you’re at. And then that person doesn’t have to guess and imagine and, probably sometimes also, concoct reality in their head. That’s not actual reality, that’s not real. And because they don’t have the same ability to, apply what you’re saying, to their particular for their particular needs.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:22:30

    And maybe they’re using also previous experiences from other stroke survivors, and superimposing their version of what happened to them onto you, and then it kind of has a bit of a disconnect, and it doesn’t feel right for you and you don’t feel understood, but this way, it’s amazingly simple to help that person understand where you’re at.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:22:53

    It reminds me of an episode that I did with Maggie Widom episode 47 episodes titled The Great Nail What? And Maggie had a problem describing explaining how her I think her left side felt, and she got Barbie dolls. And in one of the Barbie dolls in the series of these Barbie dolls, she got one of them and she wrapped it in clay on her left side, for example. And then she just described, that’s what it feels like to be me right now.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:23:29

    So feels, imagine your body, half of it wrapped in clay, and you have to move that body through the world, you know, how would that be different? And then she got another one. And she painted it with different colors, etc. Then she had another one with I think pins and needles and that type of thing to describe the other feelings and other sensations that she was feeling.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:23:56

    And the visual image of when I saw those Barbie dolls for the first time, it was like, Oh, wow, I appreciate that. Because now I have a visual to explain something to somebody who doesn’t understand how I feel. It’s such an amazing gift. And she’s a creative kind of person. She is in the theater.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:24:26

    She struggled early on getting through her recovery, her the impact of the stroke was pretty dramatic, in that she had real trouble on one side of her body, and also her mouth dripped on one side and it stayed drip and didn’t change. And she was an actress and you know, she became challenged by all that stuff.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:24:55

    And then I interviewed her probably I reckon in 2016 Something like About 2017. But since then, she’s put together a documentary about her stroke recovery journey. And what they’ve, what she’s had to overcome all the challenges, I was so blessed to be one of the first few people to have seen it to give her my feedback on it.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:25:16

    It was just amazing that she developed this. And she developed it with an amazing colleague and friend of hers, at the time when she was the most unwell. So she would have been struggling with every aspect of recovery. And in that time, somehow, she’s managed to squeeze out a documentary. Now, I’m not sure if it’s been bought, published, or shown yet or anything like that, I don’t know what stage it’s at, might check in with her.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:25:48

    But even though Maggie has been able to go back to the theater, she has been able to find a new community of people. One of the particular theaters that she’s involved in is called Family PHAML. A, why I think family fits the family theater. And it’s people who are somehow disabled, they might be in a wheelchair or whatever.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:26:16

    And they do productions and they run them, I’m pretty sure they’re LA-based. So there’s a whole huge, massive amount of shift and change. But she’s used all those skills that she always had. And she’s applied them in these unique and different ways. And she has been able to just bridge the gap between understanding stroke and not understanding stroke with these, you know, beautiful, amazing ways. That sounds a little bit like you’re kind of thinking.

    The importance of having a creative outlet in recovery

    Liam Bonar 1:26:54

    Yeah, I think I think for me, as well, it’s always been great. Like, I’ve always benefited from having a creative outlet. And I think, you know, when, when you go into something like recovery, where time is the metric, I suppose that you can rely on you know, it’s like, how long is this going to take to be able to draw and write as well.

    Liam Bonar 1:27:20

    I mean, like, I enjoy writing. I pain, you know, like photography as well, you know, to be able to do these things it’s like, for a lot of people exercise. I mean, you know, like, I’m not running at the minute, but I do enjoy, things like that. But the thing that I the thing that silences my mind, and helps me relax is to create. So you can find solace and things like that. Definitely.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:27:50

    Brilliant, mate. I realize it’s getting late over there where you are. I want to thank you for being on the podcast, and reaching out to be on the podcast. Great to hear your story and your journey. We should Well, best of luck with the little one. And thank you for being on the podcast.

    Liam Bonar 1:28:09

    Thanks so much. No, it’s a pleasure. I enjoyed it.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:28:25

    Thanks for joining us on today’s episode. Now to learn more about my guests including links to their social media and other pages. And to download a full transcript of the entire interview, please go to recovery after stroke.com/episodes. If you’d like to support this podcast, the best way to do that is to leave a five-star review and a few words about what the show means to you on iTunes and Spotify.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:31:33

    If you’re watching on YouTube, comment below the video. Like the episode and to get notifications of future episodes, subscribe to the show on the platform of your choice. Sharing the show with family and friends on social media will make it possible for people who may need this type of content to find it easier.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:31:51

    And that may make a massive difference to someone who is on the road to recovery after their own experience with stroke. Now, if you are a stroke survivor with a story to share about your experience, with stroke, come and join me on the show that interviews are not scripted, you do not have to plan for them.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:32:09

    All you need to do to qualify is be a stroke survivor or a caregiver for someone who has had a stroke. Or you are one of the fabulous people who help other stroke survivors. Whether you’re a medical professional or in any other field, just go to recovery after stroke.com/contact Fill out the form.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:32:30

    As soon as I receive your request, I will respond with more details on how you can choose a time that works for you and me to meet over Zoom. Thanks again for being here. And listening. I appreciate you see you on the next episode.

    Intro 1:32:45

    Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals’ opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast or the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed.

    Intro 1:33:02

    All content on this website at any linked blog, podcast, or video material controlled by this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gaseous the content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice.

    Intro 1:33:24

    The information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances, or health objectives. Do not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose treat, cure, or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional.

    Intro 1:33:39

    Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional, your doctor, or your rehabilitation program based on our content. If you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition, please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional.

    Intro 1:33:53

    If you are experiencing a health emergency or think you might be, call 000 in Australia or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance or go to the nearest hospital emergency department. Medical information changes constantly. While we aim to provide current quality information in our content.

    Intro 1:34:09

    We do not provide any guarantees and assume no legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, currency, or completeness of the content. If you choose to rely on any information within our content you do so solely at your own risk. We are careful with the links we provide however third-party links from our website are followed at your own risk and we are not responsible for any information you find there.

    Thanks for joining us on today’s episode. Now to learn more about my guests including links to their social media and other pages. And to download a full transcript of the entire interview, please go to recovery after stroke.com/episodes. If you’d like to support this podcast, the best way to do that is to leave a five-star review and a few words about what the show means to you on iTunes and Spotify.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:31:33

    If you’re watching on YouTube, comment below the video. Like the episode and to get notifications of future episodes, subscribe to the show on the platform of your choice. Sharing the show with family and friends on social media will make it possible for people who may need this type of content to find it easily.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:31:51

    And that may make a massive difference to someone who is on the road to recovery after their own experience with stroke. Now, if you are a stroke survivor with a story to share about your experience, with stroke, come and join me on the show that interviews are not scripted, you do not have to plan for them.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:32:09

    All you need to do to qualify is be a stroke survivor or a caregiver for someone who has had a stroke. Or you are one of the fabulous people who help other stroke survivors. Whether you’re a medical professional or in any other field, just go to recovery after stroke.com/contact Fill out the form.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:32:30

    As soon as I receive your request, I will respond with more details on how you can choose a time that works for you and me to meet over Zoom. Thanks again for being here. And listening. I appreciate you see you on the next episode.

    Intro 1:32:45

    Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals’ opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast or the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed.

    Intro 1:33:02

    All content on this website at any linked blog, podcast, or video material controlled by this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gaseous the content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice.

    Intro 1:33:24

    The information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances, or health objectives. Do not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose treat, cure, or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional.

    Intro 1:33:39

    Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional, your doctor, or your rehabilitation program based on our content. If you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition, please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional.

    Intro 1:33:53

    If you are experiencing a health emergency or think you might be, call 000 in Australia or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance or go to the nearest hospital emergency department. Medical information changes constantly. While we aim to provide current quality information in our content.

    Intro 1:34:09

    We do not provide any guarantees and assume no legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, currency, or completeness of the content. If you choose to rely on any information within our content you do so solely at your own risk. We are careful with the links we provide however third-party links from our website are followed at your own risk and we are not responsible for any information you find there.

    The post What Happens When The Worst Happens – Liam Bonar appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

    1 hr 32 min
  • Brain Tumor, Stroke and Hearing Loss – Andrew Stopps

    Andrew Stopps had a stroke in November 2021, which was unexpected as he had no prior symptoms. He had previously been treated for a brain tumor in 2005 with radiation, which only resulted in right-side deafness.

    Instagram

    Highlights:

    01:11 Introduction

    03:37 Battling a Tumor with Radiation
    05:16 The Initial Stroke Symptoms
    13:09 Using Your Hand To Develop New Neural Pathways
    19:44 The Pseudobulbar Affect And Inappropriate Laughing
    31:00 Andrew’s Identity As A Musician Is Challenged
    37:47 Treating Yourself Like A Child After A Stroke
    48:17 Andrew’s Continued Recovery From His Stroke
    1:02:01 Meditation And Hyperbaric Chambers

    Transcription:

    Andrew Stopps 0:00

    I was frustrated by the lack of movement or the lack of not being able to do things as quickly. But I saw it more as a brain reset like my brain was reset to a childhood time. For example, when my speech started to return, I had a clear British accent.

    Andrew Stopps 0:31

    And my first five years of life in the UK, so that’s what I had as a really small child. And suddenly I was speaking with this British accent again, to the speech therapist. And it wasn’t till weeks later that my old Australian accent returned.

    Intro 0:58

    This is the recovery after stroke podcast, with Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after a stroke.

    Introduction


    Bill Gasiamis 1:11
    Hello, and welcome once again to the Recovery after Stroke podcast. This is episode 241. My guest today is Andrew Stops, who recovered from a brain tumor and also experienced an ischemic stroke in 2021. Andrew stops, welcome to the podcast.

    Andrew Stopps 1:29

    Thank you very much for having me. It’s an honor to be here.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:32

    Yeah. Thank you. Tell me a little bit about what happened to you, Andrew.

    Andrew Stopps 1:37

    Well, I had my stroke in November 2021. So but it wasn’t the first brain injury I’ve had. I had a brain tumor before that back in 2005. And I was treated with radiation for that. And I didn’t have any after-effects other than right-side deafness. And then in 2021, I had a stroke and it was such a surprise. Because it came out of nowhere.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:14

    How old were you?

    Andrew Stopps 2:16

    47.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:18

    And how old were you when you had the brain tumor?

    Andrew Stopps 2:22

    2005. In my 20s somewhere.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:31

    In your 20s that will do man. So in your 20s, that’s pretty full-on right to get that kind of diagnosis, you’re probably at the peak of energy running around doing all sorts of stuff.

    Andrew Stopps 2:49

    Yeah and then kind of like the tumor that I had was an acoustic neuroma. So it’s a slow-growing tumor. But mine was atypical as it was growing fast. But it doesn’t give you any side effects early on, so you don’t even know you’ve got it. The reason I knew I had it is that one day I just woke up and half my face was paralyzed. And that sort of led to scans and they saw the tumor. Close to my brainstem, like touching my brainstem. And so something had to be done straight away. So they radiated my head.

    Battling a Tumor with Radiation

    Bill Gasiamis 3:37

    I’m smiling because that sounds intense. Was it intense? Radiating your head?

    Andrew Stopps 3:45

    Yeah. Because your head’s in a cage, they make a mold, and they put your head in a cage, and for five days straight, they shoot, radiation through different points in your head, that all converge on the tumor. And I chose that route to go because it has the least side effects afterward. If I had it operated on and cut out, it probably would have left my face paralyzed and I’d have had no chance of getting my hearing back ever. And being a musician. I want that. You know, I want that possibility.

    Bill Gasiamis 4:25

    I hear okay. So it was a successful treatment?

    Andrew Stopps 4:29

    Yes, yes. It didn’t save my hearing. The tumor grew too fast. And it was growing at the auditory nerve. So it damaged a nerve too much. But it stopped the tumor and yeah, and it killed it basically in my head. So yeah, I just got on with life and what I had to do.

    Bill Gasiamis 4:52

    Excellent. So there were no deficits or anything like that.

    Andrew Stopps 4:55

    Oh, except for the deafness. That’s all. My face returned to normal. And I thought that’s it. I’ve done the brain stuff now. It’s, you know, I can get on with life. And it wasn’t to be wasn’t to be.

    Bill Gasiamis 5:11

    How did the ischemic stroke come to happen?

    Andrew Stopps Initial Stroke Symptoms

    Andrew Stopps 5:16

    So it happened on a Saturday morning in November 2021. I woke up at about 6:30. And immediately felt strange, I immediately felt off balance. And I thought, Ah, I have some balance problems from the revenue from the tumor. So I thought it was just that I’m just tired.

    Andrew Stopps 5:40

    So I went downstairs, and I started making myself a coffee. And I went to grab the handle of the cupboard with my right hand. And I couldn’t, I kept missing, I couldn’t seem to find the handle. And I thought, wow, this is weird. I must be really tired.

    Andrew Stopps 5:59

    So basically, got the cupboard open, got a cup out, tried to make myself a coffee, and I was missing, I just could not. My hand couldn’t find objects I could still grab, but I couldn’t, I couldn’t physically find them in that space. And after about five minutes of this happening, I thought, Now something’s wrong. Like, I didn’t think stroke at that point.

    Andrew Stopps 6:27

    I went and woke my partner and my husband up. Because I, like this, is this was too weird, like, you know, and I went to say, something’s going on. And I couldn’t, I mumbled. And at that moment, we knew get to the hospital now, let’s go. So we went straight to the hospital. And, and they took me through and it was a TIA.

    Andrew Stopps 6:57

    So it was resolved. So I was laying there and all the, like everything resolved, and I was back to normal. And so the hospital was discharging me. And just as they were filling out the forms, and the doctor was with me, she said, Look, just one more test, just touch my finger, touch your nose.

    Andrew Stopps 7:16

    And so I did that and went, my arm was really heavy. And said do it again. And I was getting lower and lower and lower. And that’s the big stroke that happened right in front of the router.

    Bill Gasiamis 7:29

    Wow, so a bit of good luck in a shitty situation. And then do you remember what happened after that? Or are you admitted?

    Andrew Stopps 7:42

    I remember bits and pieces. So I remember. I remember thinking the whole time. This is very interesting. Like I wasn’t scared, it was I was just dispassionately observing what was happening to a body. I remember my arm getting heavier and heavier and heavier until I couldn’t lift it anymore.

    Andrew Stopps 8:04

    And I didn’t so much get processed to the leg. But I lost, my foot just flopped. And my speech became, you know, like incoherent. And I just remember being well to get to a CT scan MRI, and then I was up in critical care. And it was up in critical care actually, there’s this sort of a blank spot on my memory going from emergency up to critical care.

    Andrew Stopps 8:33

    But I remember being up there. And I think that was when it hit me and I just burst into tears and just sobbed like for ages about what had happened. And then after that, I’m sleeping. I was so tired. I couldn’t keep my eyes open and I remember sleeping for hours and hours.

    Bill Gasiamis 9:00

    Just a quick break and we’ll be right back to the interview. As a stroke survivor, I understand the difficulties of finding the right information about post-stroke nutrition. That’s why I developed the course Five Foods to Avoid After Stroke. While most people are talking about what to eat after a stroke to support brain health and recovery, very few are talking about what you should avoid eating after a stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 9:23

    If you want to support your brain to heal, curious about the five foods that may make matters worse when you consume them, then you may benefit from this course. In the fun five-series of interviews, you will hear about what foods not to eat after a stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 9:38

    But most importantly, why not qualified nutritionist Stacy Turner and performance coach Mathias Turner in more than five hours of interviews discuss the five common foods that cause inflammation in the body and brain how they could interfere with healing, and how they may make fatigue worse for just $49 This five-part series of more than five hours of interviews with full PDF transcripts for download.

    Bill Gasiamis 10:06

    mp3 is for download, and videos will give you everything that you need to know about the five foods to avoid and why. The modules include eight reasons to quit sugar after a stroke. seven reasons to quit caffeine after a stroke, eight reasons to quit gluten after a stroke, six reasons to quit dairy after a stroke, and six reasons to quit alcohol after a stroke. And probably that is one of the most important things that you have to and should quit after a stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 10:38

    It’s interfering with your recovery, visit recovery after stroke.com/courses. For this and other specifically designed short and easy-to-understand courses that are made by a stroke survivor for stroke survivors. Once again, you’ll get more than five hours of content, all audio is available to download in mp3 format for listening to the full transcript of all the content to take notes on or read instead of listening to presented by a stroke survivor four stroke survivors.

    Bill Gasiamis 11:11

    also presented by a trained nutritionist and performance coach, you will also get 24 hours of access and lifetime access to courses purchased. And you’ll be able to interact with yours truly, in the comments section. Go to recovery after stroke.com/courses to check them out now. Do they know what the underlying cause of the ischemic stroke was?

    Andrew Stopps 11:34

    No, no. And even now, I saw the specialist about three weeks ago and he said, Look, it’s probably a good thing. We don’t know what caused it because that usually has the best prognosis. So I thought, well, if

    Bill Gasiamis 11:52

    you have love, and we don’t know what caused that, look, maybe it won’t ever happen again. So why not just go with it for now? But the thing about it is you had this experience in your 20s I’ve done the calculation, I reckon you’re 27. And then, when you’ve had this experience, are you comparing the two? What are you doing about your previous experience? How is that playing a role in your current situation?

    Andrew Stopps 12:23

    Um, yeah, well, yes, it it does it as much as my attitude towards it was, was the same as like, oh, here we go again. And, the first one, the prognosis was really bad if I didn’t have something done. So it’s just kind of here we go again, you know,

    Bill Gasiamis 12:49

    is that here we go again, from like a, probably this. This is something that we’re gonna get through and overcome, or Here we go. This isn’t good, not good.

    Using Your Hand To Develop New Neural Pathways


    Andrew Stopps 13:00
    No, it’s we’re gonna become like literally, I mean, you know, Saturday had the stroke. Monday morning. I was moved to a ward and I was just like, right? What do I have to do? What I have to do to get better. And, you know, physio started that day, rehab started that day. And I was just determined to, to get functioning again, from literally the get-go, like I was determined.

    Bill Gasiamis 13:30

    Yeah. Sounds like it, I like it. I like it.

    Andrew Stopps 13:36

    It’s funny that because they don’t tell you a lot of things I’ve learned so much by by researching myself, finding exercise for myself, finding stuff, rehab stuff that is specific to what I wanted to do. And, you know, and being a trained musician, like, I had an insight to my body’s musculature and breathing and the way I learn, so I was able to sort of build on that to help with the recovery.

    Andrew Stopps 14:06

    Even with a hand like that. I mean, you can see this in my deficit hand. Yeah. So I’ve, you know, getting back the movement in that. And I’ve been using this device. It’s a little practicing device used to practice and a brass instrument when I can, I’m using it to isolate my fingers. Samples, strengthen them. So

    Bill Gasiamis 14:31

    I’ve seen an improvement and noticed the difference between when you started and now.

    Andrew Stopps 14:36

    Oh my god, yes. Oh, yes. Because spring is like, for the first six weeks, I had nothing in my arm there it was just a dead mess on the side of my body. Like us, so, I mean, I can use it, you know, almost normally I can’t write yet. I can’t pinch it because of my thumb, sort of pinch to the side.

    Andrew Stopps 14:57

    But other than that, I can pick stuff up in I like, yeah. I can not for very long. I mean, I mostly use my left-hand type. My right hand, does type of my fingers get tired? Yeah. But I tried to incorporate my right hand, like, in everything that I do. So whatever I’m doing, I make sure my right hand is doing some part of that task. So I’m not, you know, it’s not getting a practice on us.

    Bill Gasiamis 15:30

    Even the Yeah, let’s repeat that because that’s a really important point you just made. So why are you including your hand in everything that you do?

    Andrew Stopps 15:42

    So that I’m not developing practice for your practice, or nonuse? Yeah, non-use. So

    Bill Gasiamis 15:50

    It’s a kind of Neuroplasticity, it’s the opposite of using your hand to practice something so that you can create new neural pathways in your brain. And then yeah, working, it’s the opposite of that. It’s like, if you’re not using it, there could be two reasons why somebody don’t doesn’t get movement back in one of their limbs, specifically a handful for this example.

    Bill Gasiamis 16:15

    One of the reasons is that there was a stroke, and the pathway is no longer there, or has been interrupted with or has been inflamed or there’s something wrong with the pathway that tells the hand to move from the brain, there’s a connection issue.

    Bill Gasiamis 16:27

    And the other one is where the head because of that connection issue at the beginning, is excluded from being used. And then it develops the pathways for nonuse. So no new car, it doesn’t then work. Not because it’s damaged, it may have healed, but it hasn’t been used. So the practice is gone. And then it’s the whole user loser routine.

    Andrew Stopps 16:55

    Yeah, definitely. Definitely. And I was aware of that, from really early on. And it was really important to me to get my arm moving. And I remember, like, you get six weeks, like rehab at home rehab, here in New Zealand, from you know, when you’re discharged. And so, for those six weeks, yeah, we weren’t getting very much moved.

    Andrew Stopps 17:24

    And at all, I had to look headed a little bit, but not much. And then I found that if I yawned and when you’re, you know, you automatically stretch. Well, if I was in a laying position, and I did that, my arm would lift, but you know, as involuntary movement and so I worked with that, I, I kept doing that until I could lift standing and do that. And gradually my movement came back. So it all started from involuntary movement.

    Bill Gasiamis 18:01

    If I’m in bed, and yawn, and stretch and do those big morning stretches, like you said, my left leg I could cramps in my left leg. It goes from okay to cramping. It bloody annoys me because I love waking up in the morning. And during that stretch, it kind of gets things going. And my left calf will go into spasm.

    Andrew Stopps 18:24

    I was one I was right. So deficit, I get that too. If I stretch my left and my right leg out. In bed in the morning, I get really bad, really bad cramps like it’s

    Bill Gasiamis 18:40

    so hard to reset it and to get the cramp to stop. It’s like, I’ve never had cramps before. And I understand now what happens when people suffer from cramps all the time. But that pain point pinpoints pain in that one spot in the muscle that just goes deeper than the depth of the earth. I know. Unbelievable. How do they do that? I mean, how do they do that? How does it do that?

    Andrew Stopps 19:08

    And yeah, I know, and like I just tried to try to move your foot to stretch out the cramp is excruciating. Yeah, I’m, I try hard not to stretch my legs in the morning. Because it’s not worth it. It’s not worth the pain. So

    Bill Gasiamis 19:28

    if anyone else goes through that, if people are watching and listening, and they do go through there, let me know in the comments, or yeah, just let me know. I’d love to know if that happens. I didn’t think that you were gonna say are you that happens to me too. I had no idea you were gonna say that. I thought that was just me. But good. Just goes to show.

    The Pseudobulbar Affect And Inappropriate Laughing


    Andrew Stopps 19:45
    The other thing that I found interesting is that sometimes my right foot, there’ll be a nerve bias and my foot just twitches like totally right randomly. And it feels almost like someone’s putting a feather or something on my button and my feet, like ticklish on the Yeah, it, it just happens like at random times.

    Andrew Stopps 20:15

    Yeah, that’s been weird as well, that and, and my diaphragm muscles on my right side Twitch if I get very emotional so if someone says something and I have an emotional reaction, the old pre-stroke Andrew normally kept stuck. But the post-stroke Andrew I get this emotional Twitch that almost comes out like a laugh.

    Andrew Stopps 20:46

    And that could be like, it could be someone’s told me something really sad or or anything. But I like immediately, like lead out this laugh which is not meant to be like it’s not it’s not a funny laugh at all. It’s my diaphragm twitching that’s been embarrassing at times and, and interesting as well.

    Bill Gasiamis 21:10

    All right. Have you heard of the pseudobulbar effect?

    Andrew Stopps 21:15

    Yeah, I think I have that remind me

    Bill Gasiamis 21:19

    pseudobulbar affect It’s a condition that happens to people who have neurological injuries like strokes. And I had had the symptoms of it. For me Sheila bye bye effect caused crying, uncontrollable client crying in inappropriate moments.

    Bill Gasiamis 21:35

    And what I learned after I discovered that it was about inappropriate crying, which is very common for stroke survivors also learned that there’s another version of it inappropriate laughing in, in moments, such as funerals, and you know, really nonappropriate places like that.

    Andrew Stopps 21:58

    Yep, yep, that’s, I can relate to it. And also because, like this side of my face, wasn’t affected too much by the stroke, just my tongue and and like sort of around my mouth. But I’ll break into a smile. uncontrollably, which sometimes is great. But sometimes it’s inappropriate. And I just have to like, you know, cover my face.

    Bill Gasiamis 22:24

    Yeah. Yeah. And pretend you’re not smiling. Interesting. Is there something that you wish they did for you or told you in the hospital during your stay, so that that would make your time at home better?

    Andrew Stopps 22:46

    Lots of things. Lots of things. Got where to start. I mean, you know, I can’t complain about the care I had in hospital. But the doctors just talk about, you know, neurological medical things. And don’t talk to you about all the other stuff they experience.

    Andrew Stopps 23:11

    When you’ve had a stroke, like, you know, like you were saying about inappropriate crying, I found, especially in the first six months, that if something moved me, it wouldn’t move me to tears like immediately, and I’ll be bawling. And the same with, you know, the opposite if something made me laugh. I’ll be laughing hysterically. Like I’d be at the extremes of the Rangers. There was no subtlety.

    Intro 23:37

    If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. How long will it take to recover? Will I recover? What things should I avoid? In case I make matters worse, doctors will explain things that, you’ve never had a stroke before, and you probably don’t know what questions to ask.

    Intro 24:03

    If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation. Stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you it’s called Seven Questions to Ask Your Doctor about Your Stroke.

    Intro 24:21

    These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke. They’ll not only help you better understand your condition. They’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery head to the website now recoveryafterstroke.com and download the guide it’s free.

    Andrew Stopps 24:41

    That was kind of scary because I thought oh god I don’t want to be like this for the rest of my life. This is you know too much. The thing about practicing you know my rehab and doing the rehab, I found that I, when discovered exercises and myself, because I wasn’t being told or given guidance in that area, I just found I had to be self-reliant in as much as my recovery went.

    Bill Gasiamis 25:27

    Self-motivated and taking the responsibility for that path of your recovery, and kind of leading the charge, is that what it was like?

    Andrew Stopps 25:37

    Yeah, I mean, the rehab team, in the first six weeks, sent me some goals of what they wanted me to do, like, you know, we’ve got a two-story house and one of the goals was to be able to go up the stairs. And things like, you know, being able to shower and drama self-being able to be in the kitchen and butter bread.

    Andrew Stopps 26:01

    And so all those things were mine, I had those goals, I just practice and practice them. And, you know, by the time they came the next week, I was able to do them all. But they weren’t. They weren’t giving me things that were just things to help me, you know, with the big things in life, they weren’t other things I needed to, you know, fully recover, there were just things I needed to get by.

    Bill Gasiamis 26:25

    So tell me, what about what were some of those things you needed to fully recover as in? Well, knowing that now, you probably didn’t leave the hospital, saying in your head, I’m going to need all these things. Did you get home? And then you thought, Oh, what about this? And then you thought, Oh, what about that? Do you know, what those things are now? would you be able to tell us?

    Andrew Stopps 26:48

    just thinks like, Okay, well, I can I can, you know, they’ve taught me how to butter bread with my left hand. But how am I going to teach my rights?

    Bill Gasiamis 27:00

    Okay, the right hand, which is the

    Andrew Stopps 27:02

    straight effective side? Yeah. So now we’re teaching, they were giving me lots of things. And lots of exercises to do that were sort of replacing my deficit side, rather than teaching it. And I knew already then, that if I didn’t use the site, it would be neglected, and we’d learn nonuse.

    Andrew Stopps 27:29

    So rather than teaching me to bother with my left hand, which was good, initially, like, early on, when I had no when I couldn’t hold a knife. I had. They weren’t around when I needed to learn how to do it, and learning how to hold a pen again. I remember the one thing I did, just before I left the hospital on the morning of the stroke in the kitchen a scrap piece of paper was a piece of paper, and I wrote on the paper with my right hand, I m address drops.

    Andrew Stopps 28:03

    And it’s the last thing I wrote before I lost the use of the hand. And it’s it’s really interesting. I wrote there because I was sort of, like, asserting my identity or, or saying, you know, this is who I am, is I’ve got to remind myself who I am. I don’t know why I did that. It’s very strange.

    Bill Gasiamis 28:27

    It is very strange. That’s extremely strange. Now, I love that you did it. I made your stops when you came home. Did it mean anything to you? When did you see it? When did you see it again? What did you see it again? And we

    Andrew Stopps 28:41

    had a really powerful effect because when I got back, I saw it. I thought I was not Andrew stopped now. I am something new, someone new? I’m not the same person who wrote this, that piece of paper. And, you know, I’ve, especially in the last six months, been working on what is my identity and what my is self-identity. And, and what it all means, and not get too caught up in what I’ve lost.

    Bill Gasiamis 29:20

    Yes. Let’s describe. That’s, that’s, that’s, let’s talk about that. So out of curiosity, how would you have described yourself before the stroke, okay? And the example is, you know, I’ll do mine. I’m, I’m Bill, I’m a father of two, and my husband goes to work. I have, I enjoy sport. I ride a bike, those types of things.

    Bill Gasiamis 29:46

    That’s how I would have. That’s how I’m doing it now. 10 years later, I don’t know what I would have done 10 years ago, but that’s how I would describe it now. So your stroke was a little bit more recent. So I’m curious. Do you know how you describe I’ve just after somebody who asked you, who Andrew stopped a couple of years ago? Yeah,

    Andrew Stopps 30:05

    yeah. So, musician, composer, educator, husband, brother. I like riding bikes, too. Yeah, those but particularly musicians and educators were like,

    Bill Gasiamis 30:23

    the biggest part the broadest part. Yeah. Or the most, the most, the part that you identified with the most, yeah, but there seems to be some broad, a little bit of broadness to your identity, you all these other things while you are a musician, right? So, when you came home, how did how would you have described yourself then?

    Andrew Stopps Identity As A Musician Is Challenged


    Andrew Stopps 30:48
    Initially, when I came home, and I saw that piece of paper, I thought, I am not that Andrew stops anymore, but it was so so overwhelmingly painful. I didn’t, I left it. And I just focused on, like, trying to claw back, the person that I was, now. I did some exploration, especially over New Year and years, it struck me the most, because every year of my life, the New Year, I knew what was coming up, you know.

    Andrew Stopps 31:28

    And there were no surprises like I knew what this year was gonna bring. And this year, for the first time in my life, I didn’t know. I didn’t know like, even last year was going to be recovery. So last year, I knew what it was, this year, I had no idea. And I got scared and depressed.

    Andrew Stopps 31:51

    And I started to think about my who, who I am, and my identity. And I thought about I must have had a time of my life when I didn’t have a very strong identity, like, oh, any at all, when I wasn’t a musician or an educator. So I thought back, and I can remember a time when I was 18 months old. And my dad was holding me up in his arms.

    Andrew Stopps 32:23

    And I remember him, me saying to him, Dad, can I have a brother? And Dad said I’ll talk to him. We’ll see what we can do. I can remember so vividly, and I’ve had a 10-month-old. Yeah. And I had to be 18 months old.

    Bill Gasiamis 32:40

    You didn’t speak any words? Or were you speaking?

    Andrew Stopps 32:43

    I can speak to them. Yeah, I can speak at 18 months.

    Bill Gasiamis 32:46

    And you said you wanted a brother? Yeah,

    Andrew Stopps 32:48

    I got one. So I was really, it’s but I remember that had like that memory so vividly. And I thought to myself, Okay, who was I then? Like, if I see, if I looked through the eyes of the 18-month-old me, what did I see? And I saw potential. And I thought that’s who I am. I’m potential. And as soon as I realized that, I stopped stressing about who Andrew was. Okay,

    Bill Gasiamis 33:21

    I love it. So let’s go back for one second. You’re a musician before the stroke, the stroke, you don’t cease to be a musician? Do you feel like you have ceased to be a musician at that moment? Because it’s not true that just because you can’t hold your favorite instrument you’re no longer a musician. So how does that impact you? Like what’s happening there at that moment? How does that identity become challenged?

    Andrew Stopps 33:58

    Not being able to play my instruments is hard. Because I had them me in this room here. I have like a keyboard over there and a clarinet down there. And I can twiddle around with my left hand on them. But you know. Yeah, like, I can’t play them anywhere near like you’re used to. I can compose those still. But yeah, it’s it’s

    Bill Gasiamis 34:28

    just because you can’t play Does that mean you’re no longer a musician?

    Andrew Stopps 34:35

    No, no, it doesn’t. Because everything’s there. Everything’s in my head. I still know how to play. I just my right hand just feels like it’s in molasses.

    Bill Gasiamis 34:48

    So feels like it’s in molasses. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. Great explanation.

    Andrew Stopps 34:54

    It’s just in the thick Yeah, something The same. And I mean, I’ve held my clarinet with and move my fingers on, on my right hand, but they’re, they’re slow. I mean, I’m grateful that I can, especially after what 14 months, you know, I’m so grateful that I can move my fingers independently, but they’re just slow. So I guess, you know, I’m still a musician, but I’m just now a nonpracticing musician. I guess that’s what it is,

    Bill Gasiamis 35:34

    like a lot of Christians or Catholics? Yep. We still identify as whatever we are. But, you know, like this anymore or whatever? Yeah. Okay, I hear. All right. So that’s the thing. I’ve been doing how? And I’ve been, in my mind trying to work out. What is the thing that morning that people mourn? And I don’t know, I don’t speak for everybody.

    Bill Gasiamis 36:02

    But I’ll speak for myself. So I’m wondering that question. So it’s something that I’ve been thinking about the last few months, particularly. And I’m not sure where I heard it. But I think somewhere what I heard was that people mourn the potential that they have, they can no longer achieve. And that potential is what they mourn.

    Bill Gasiamis 36:30

    And when I think about me, there’s no morning of my past self, like the self that was physically able to play sport, for example, or to ride a bike without feeling the left side, go all stiff, and, and all that sort of stuff. I didn’t mourn, having to change the way that I worked, because I was working terribly.

    Bill Gasiamis 36:57

    And in an in an unhealthy way. I didn’t mind my personality, or, because that was not the best kind of me that I could be I was mourning the potential that I wasn’t going to achieve or stuff that perhaps now that I’ve had the stroke, I’m not going to be able to do because my brain, for example, doesn’t work the same way that it used to never.

    Treating Yourself Like A Child After A Stroke and Hearing Loss

    Bill Gasiamis 37:27

    And I felt at the beginning of that perhaps it’s not going to come back and be a brain that can support stuff like an audio, podcast, or stuff, like writing a book or anything. And I didn’t know what was going to be possible either. So I felt like I was mourning the loss of potential in the future. Yep. I don’t know if that resonates with you. Did you have any of those types of feelings or thoughts?

    Andrew Stopps 37:55

    It’s funny I did the morning after the brain tumor when I lost my hearing, okay, so when this happened, I didn’t have so much more than the loss potential. I was frustrated by the lack of movement or the lack of being able to do things as quickly, but I saw it more as a brain reset like, my brain was reset to a childhood time. For example, when my speech started to return, I had a clear British accent.

    Andrew Stopps 38:46

    And my first five years of life in the UK, so that’s what I had as a as a really small child. And suddenly I was speaking with this British accent again, when to the speech therapist. And it wasn’t till you know, weeks, weeks later that my old Australian accent returned, because as I grew up in Australia, I just moved here, like 14 years ago.

    Andrew Stopps 39:15

    So Right? Yeah, so a sound and everything else, like, you know, how my emotions were affected like I respond as a child does with, you know, how little kids can’t control their emotions, they’re crying or they’re laughing or I’m responding the same way. The sensory overload you get is like a child or like a toddler, you know?

    Andrew Stopps 39:44

    And so I’m exposing myself gradually to more sensory stimulus to try to get used to it again, even to the point where now I’ve I’ve found on YouTube that background sounds of a pub With all that noise and I just listened to it through headphones just to get myself used to this the sensory input, because it’s tiring, that much noise going into your heart after you’ve had a stroke, and I’m finding that I’m, yeah, I’m filling myself like, or training, what’s happened up the stroke like it like a child, and teaching again how to do things, how to write, you know,

    Bill Gasiamis 40:31

    I liked that approach, it’s probably the most. Because when you’re a child, you have the most potential ahead of you, and you can, you’re, you’re not going to stop a child, regardless of what happened to their child to reach its potential. Because that child had an injury or something unfortunate happened when it was early on, it’s gonna go for that recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 40:55

    And it doesn’t even really know it, it’s just instinct is going, Well, my friends are playing, I’m going to play all my friends are doing this, I’m going to do this. So I love that idea of treating yourself like a child in that you’re going to give yourself all the space, I imagined that a child needs to just go through the motions, terrible at something early stage, and then see the improvement and then focus on where you’ve come rather than what you’re lacking.

    Andrew Stopps 41:24

    Yeah. And, you know, one thing, one of my rehab people said to me early on, when I was having home rehab, is I would get really angry and frustrated with myself, I couldn’t move my arm. And she said, Look, your anger is what’s stopping you from moving it. You have to be patient with yourself.

    Andrew Stopps 41:46

    And that’s when I started realizing that, like, my brain has had a factory reset. And I have, I have a half of me now as a child, like a small child, and I had to treat it like that. I treat myself like, it’s a small child with patience and love. And, you know, and I think, you know, for the most part, it’s worked. I mean, I still get frustrated at some things.

    Andrew Stopps 42:14

    But nowhere near like, I used to log I used to have put stamping, you know, screaming tantrums, like a two-year-old. Because I you know, I dropped something right? You know, I was clumsy. It was almost funny. You know, the way it was?

    Bill Gasiamis 42:31

    We can be our own worst enemies for sure. In that way, we can put the most pressure on ourselves and anybody. Oh, God. Yes. Yeah. But it’s why you have awareness of it now. So that’s great. So you know, the pub sound that you put in the background? Have you therefore because of the sensory overload? Because I did this avoided going into public places.

    Andrew Stopps 42:54

    Yep. Yep. And my husband has been good with knowing how far to push me and knowing when I’m overloaded, he’s, he’s got a really good sense of it. And so and knowing when I just want to be lazy, so if I’m just being lazy, who pushed me to do something, and so we’ve gone to cafes and restaurants and, and been there and when he sees me starting to fade, he knows I’ve reached my overload point. And we just go.

    Andrew Stopps 43:30

    And it’s been really good because I’ve been able to extend the time I could spend in those places. And I’m, and Monday nights this Monday, I’m doing something new. So I’m, I’ve just rolled in a postgraduate composition program. Then the lecturers and the students meet in a pub for a pre-lecture, pre-lectures, drinks, and a meet and greet.

    Andrew Stopps 43:59

    And I wasn’t in the gut first, I thought, now I’m going to try this out. I’m going to I’m going to go for as long as I can, you know, handle it for and and see what happens. So yeah, Monday, I’m going to rock along to this pub and see if I can stand it. Yeah. I mean, they know I’ve had a stroke. So if I have to go, just go.

    Bill Gasiamis 44:18

    Yeah, I think I think that’s a great thing to do. I stopped saying no, and then I started going, and then we would just leave earlier. A lot of our parties that we went to during that time, family birthdays, things like that. For me, that would have ended at nine o’clock or 930. We just had to go ahead, and we went home. And then as the years went on, the recovery continued. I found myself being able to be there a little longer, a little longer.

    Bill Gasiamis 44:49

    Yep. But I remember and I’ve even done the one to three o’clock in the morning from time to time, but last Friday, so a couple of days ago today Are we recording on Sunday morning is windy up, and it was really hot in Melbourne. And I think I was dehydrated. I remember struggling by about 1130 To get back to the car, as in, I was walking fine and I got there. But I remember not being able to feel my left leg and my foot underneath.

    Bill Gasiamis 45:20

    So I had to pay attention to walking, which is something I haven’t done for a while, like really paying attention to make sure. And then I could feel my balance was out. So most of my time now is great in that my deficits don’t get in the way, I don’t notice them too much.

    Bill Gasiamis 45:39

    Especially when I’m walking with these friends and we’re chatting, you don’t notice them, I just keep walking. Whereas this time, in our conversations that we were having, while we were walking, I had to pay attention and notice where my foot was. Now, I haven’t done that for a while. And that kind of took me back a few years to when I first got out of the hospital after brain surgery I had to where we were at, we were at an event and there was a dance floor.

    Bill Gasiamis 46:07

    And people needed to get up and go dance at a certain point in the Proceedings of the night. And I was on the dance floor. But I wasn’t dancing. I was standing there just moving, paying a debt looking down and paying attention to my leg and moving it strategically around the place.

    Bill Gasiamis 46:30

    I don’t roll an ankle or do some damage at that moment. Yeah, whatever. Yeah. So it’s as it gets for me, it gets better and better and better and better. And then every once in a while there’s that reminder of this is how far you’ve come like this is what it was, like, X amount of years ago.

    Bill Gasiamis 46:55

    And that’s usually because I’ve done something to neglect myself that day, whether I haven’t slept enough the night before, or whether I’ve eaten something I shouldn’t have, or whether I haven’t deep, I haven’t drank enough water.

    Bill Gasiamis 47:13

    Something I’ve done has impacted that in a negative way. And that’s kind of the part where I get in my way unknowingly. And then I’ve got to have a little bit of a reminder, and a bit of reminder, the reset, and then it’s like okay, focus again.

    Andrew Stopps 47:28

    So, two things come out that I need to ask you, firstly, are you less tolerant to heat now since

    Bill Gasiamis 47:37

    Yeah, yeah, but only on half. So half my side. Really? Yeah. So my left side is the only part that’s less tolerant I love the hate Bill loves the hate of my left side. doesn’t do too well with it kind of shuts down quicker. It gets fatigued, hate fatigue quicker. Yes. Yes.

    Bill Gasiamis 47:59

    And also the cold. So the cold Yes. Oh my god, which I dislike build dislikes it. My left-hand side dislikes that even more than build dislike, so we hate the cold together. We don’t mind. But the heat fatigues me quicker. Yeah.

    Andrew’s Continued Recovery From His Stroke And Hearing Loss

    Andrew Stopps 48:17

    Yeah, I mean, New Zealand’s not known for its heat. And I’m in Wellington. Sorry, it’s even less so. But um, a few weeks ago, we were having timber stopped me 30 Which is hot for here. And I just found it was wiping me out like, totally, I was getting, like heat fatigue so quickly.

    Andrew Stopps 48:38

    And I was like basically laying up in front of an air conditioner with a winter coat back on my head because I could not function. And I was really surprised that I was that affected by the heat.

    Bill Gasiamis 48:50

    Early on, I was affected as well. So as things have improved, and time has passed, and I’ve become more resilient to it, but early on, it was like that, even though I was enjoying being in the heat. I still was protected by and couldn’t participate for example at the beach in the same way that I would normally have participated before the stroke. So now for me the beach, I’ve got to be covered otherwise I don’t want to be there by an umbrella or a tree or in the shed and before that wasn’t essential that wasn’t necessary.

    Andrew Stopps 49:26

    Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the same with me because in Andrews the same Andrew loves the heat, especially, you know, growing up in Adelaide is less like you know, nice and

    Bill Gasiamis 49:38

    the Adelaide weather a couple of days later, right? So yeah, yeah, you know exactly what I’m talking about.

    Andrew Stopps 49:44

    I totally and yeah, now like, you know, I wouldn’t go back to Adelaide for a holiday in the summer because we’re Not at the moment anyway, because it would just destroy me I couldn’t function. But the other thing that I was going to ask or mention And from what you said, was your continued recovery.

    Andrew Stopps 50:04

    So it’s been 10 years, and you’re still recovering, I was told that my recovery would finish in six months. That’s a lot of bullshit. Yep. And so I was racing and panicking to get as much recovery in six months, I could have a pulley where I rented a hyperbaric chamber for three months.

    Bill Gasiamis 50:27

    Excellent. Well, we’re going to talk about that a little bit as well, you’re going to tell me about that. But let me just go back for a second guy. There’s no such thing as recovery for six weeks, six months, or whatever, and it stops, it does never stop. I’m always doing things to try and improve my deficits.

    Bill Gasiamis 50:45

    And to try and be better than I was the day before, always has never started. And some days, that means doing nothing, that means going, You know what, today, you have to do nothing. Because if you go too far, today, you’re going to be screwed for the next two or three days. And there’s no point in doing that.

    Bill Gasiamis 51:03

    So I get into that stage, every so often. But the amount of times I find myself there has reduced, and the time between the last time in this time, has grown apart. So that’s why you, you experience you experience all these things, but in lower, what’s the word like it’s lower, I’m going to use the word volume at a lower volume at a lower level.

    Bill Gasiamis 51:29

    So I get the reminders of what it was like, in 2014, when I had surgery, and what it was like in 2012. But when I had the first blade, it was not as dramatic and as intense as it was back then. It’s just a milder version. Yeah, I just, I if I don’t take recovery, if I don’t consider myself still in recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 51:58

    And I go back to doing some of the behaviors or the habits or the patterns that I was in. Before my whole situation started 10 years ago, I was going to suffer badly, because of it that I had back then was resilient, enough more resilient, to deal with all the junk that I was doing to it.

    Bill Gasiamis 52:19

    Right now. It’s not going to cope, I’m going to suffer dramatically. If I go back to those old routines and old ways of being myself and doing myself and you know, treating myself, it’s not going to work. So yeah,

    Andrew Stopps 52:35

    it’s it’s interesting, I pride myself on why doctors or physios insist on telling people that they will see the most gains in six months, and then not to expect anything or very little after that. And, you know, I think maybe the trying to give people false hope, or maybe because a lot of the people that they do see sort of aren’t as motivated, or just

    Bill Gasiamis 53:04

    there is a technical reason and an actual reason in the brain that happens. So there’s that. Now for people who are listening, I’m gesturing with my hands, and you can’t see it, but I’m going to try and explain it at the same time. So there’s the area of the brain that was damaged by the damaged spot, and then there’s the area around that, that has been impacted but not damaged by the stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 53:29

    So it’s kind of like it’s like a target on a bullseye. So there’s the bullseye where the area has been damaged. And there’s the next ring out. That next ring is called the penumbra. Usually, it is damaged, it is impacted, and kind of put to sleep. But then, when the penumbra comes back online, people see the most gains. That’s where the gains come.

    Bill Gasiamis 53:57

    That comes back online far quicker. Because the stroke quality ischemic stroke or hemorrhagic stroke is dealt with in the actual location where it happened. Even though the brain cells around there would be dead and not firing the way they were in the area around it, The Penumbra is going to be just negatively impacted. And then it’s going to start settling down. And then as it settles down, you see the most gains.

    Bill Gasiamis 54:29

    So they go after a lot of recovery during that time. And they know that they can encourage recovery because they know they’re going to benefit from the penumbra coming back on board. Right, so that’s why they say that they don’t have a good way of describing it. And they don’t explain it properly. And they don’t even tell Yeah, yeah. And then there is a combination. I will also not set the expectations too high, because we don’t want to disappoint them.

    Bill Gasiamis 55:03

    And we don’t want to give them hope, where there isn’t any. And they’re doing it from the perspective of a nonstroke survivor. Even though they’re working stroke, even though they understand what’s going on. They are they’ve never lived the experience. And they are coming at it from somebody who is naive in that space.

    Bill Gasiamis 55:25

    So there are a couple of things kind of working against them to give us the appropriate information about what is happening and why they say what they say about the six months. recovery continues forever. I know people who have been interviewed who have said that had an arm movement came back 10 years later.

    Bill Gasiamis 55:46

    Wow. And that was by Imagine, not that they would know. But I imagine it was because of what we spoke about earlier, I learned nonuse, yes. In the beginning, they thought their hand wasn’t working. Therefore they didn’t use it. They weren’t encouraged to butter their bread with the effect at hand. And 10 years down the track.

    Bill Gasiamis 56:09

    The hand was just sitting there idly by waiting for somebody to rehabilitate it. And when they got curious about it, and thought, of let’s see if I can get something back with this. And let’s see if I can rehabilitate it. That’s when the hands started to go. Yeah, thanks for that. Appreciate. Yeah, I can have the hand back, you know?

    Andrew Stopps 56:29

    Yeah. Like, because I wish someone explained it to me, because that’s, that was, is so clear, and is so like, it’s so obvious to me now, how in the brain hills. Because I just remember thinking that I had this time limit, and yet I’ve seen constant improvement past and emitted in like given to last week, you know, I’m seeing improvement.

    Andrew Stopps 56:59

    But I don’t think I think it’s appropriate for the physios to be giving devices that help people or aid people to use their ineffective side. Like, let me think of something like devices that help you hold a knife like, you know, properly or just, or in a car, like a steering wheel device who you have to, you can do with one hand.

    Andrew Stopps 57:38

    All those things, you know, are great, if you have only got one hand. But if you’ve got another hand, you’ve you’ve, you’ve got to use it. You’ve got to use it.

    Bill Gasiamis 57:51

    Yeah, I hear I know exactly what you mean, there’s is kind of a decrease in this. That’s it’s also guided by the people who are recovering, right? So some people will go, and fair enough, I need to drive a new drive now. And I can’t drive with one hand, I need a steering wheel knob thing, whatever.

    Bill Gasiamis 58:15

    Yeah, called, you know, get it for me. And so complicated, this whole recovery, and every stroke is different. And everyone’s impacted differently, and some people aren’t going to get their hand back. Whereas some might. I think that everyone has to go after getting it back and see if they can. And then if they can’t, for sure, we need to make sure that people can still not go

    Andrew Stopps 58:40

    straight to the aids like because they’re impatient. Yeah. Because impatience can drive you to, you know, to doing those and then not using your affected side.

    Bill Gasiamis 58:53

    Yeah, I was speaking to some stroke, two-stroke survivors yesterday. And we’re talking about some of the things that get in the way of helping recovery as well. And I’m going to mention it now because this particular stroke survivor wasn’t told to stop drinking alcohol. And the Australian Stroke Foundation says you have to stop drinking alcohol for at least 12 months. I didn’t drink alcohol for five years.

    Bill Gasiamis 59:18

    One of the reasons is because the brain is brain is already inflamed. And what alcohol does is inflame it further. And what, what they want to do? Well we want to do is we want to decrease the things that inflame the brain, so that we can give it more chance for the sleepy neurons to come up to come awake so that we can utilize them and then support them and strengthen them.

    Bill Gasiamis 59:43

    So the reason I mentioned that to this other gentleman was that he was waiting to get his skull reinstalled in his brain. After all, they removed it when he had his stroke. After all, he had a lot of swelling and inflammation. If the doctors are saying to him until the inflammation goes down, we cannot put the skull back in place.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:07

    So he’ll eventually get it back. And when he told me that and told me at the same time, or a few minutes later told me that he was drinking a couple of beers every so often. I realized that he was getting in the way of getting his skull back. Yeah, he’s continuing to do things that will inflame the brain keep it swelling, and swelling, and stop them from putting the skull on.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:33

    And the thing that he’s most motivated to see is this callback on his head, so that he’s going to feel more like himself is going to start to identify himself much. And even those types of things I would have thought that in this situation, he would have been told, in no uncertain terms, you should not be doing any of these things.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:56

    One of them is to drink alcohol from now on. Yeah, so would I, but especially when you’ve got like Nerf skull, yeah, but it was missed, right? And that’s the thing, sometimes we get in our way because we need to go back to what you said, Life, or the way we used to do things quickly because we’re impatient. And we don’t understand that there’s a, there’s been a line drawn in the sand and things are different now.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:22

    And our old patterns of behaviors need to be modified because they don’t serve us, some of them won’t serve us with this new way that we have to go about life or the skills that we have to learn or the stuff we have to overcome. And it’s really important to be able to understand that there has to be a shift what was good for you before the stroke may not be good for you now and you can just park it pocket for now.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:49

    And pick it up later. If it’s worth it. If it’s worth it, you can pick it up later. But for right now, some of those things you have to park one of them 100% is alcohol. So I’m not sure if you were told about alcohol.

    Meditation And Hyperbaric Chambers

    Andrew Stopps 1:02:01

    No, it wasn’t, but I don’t drink anyway. So it’s like, you know, I wasn’t me since the tumor. And alcohol had a different effect. I mean, it wasn’t pleasant. So I stopped drinking. And so

    Bill Gasiamis 1:02:16

    back to you like so for me, I don’t drink because it makes me feel like I’m having another stroke.

    Andrew Stopps 1:02:22

    For me. It made me feel sick. Yeah. Yeah. It just wasn’t pleasant. It led it wasn’t a pleasant feeling. And so like, I stopped drinking years ago, after the tumor, and so yeah, like, now, you know, having a stroke. I haven’t missed it. So but I know a bit about the inflammation as well, like, like, I’ve been reading about that. So I, I mean, that’s one of the other reasons I got the hyperbaric was to try and reduce

    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:00

    the inflammation. Let’s talk about that. Yeah, like climbing into a hyperbaric chamber. And how long does it last how long does it take? And what do you notice?

    Andrew Stopps 1:03:10

    So, I had it for three months in the house. It’s like a thick plastic tube. And it has a little seat inside it. And, your breathing, really, through a mask or a cannula in your nose, really, highly oxygenated air. Almost, you know, 100% Pure bubble close to it.

    Andrew Stopps 1:03:37

    They raised the air pressure inside the chamber to one and a half or two times the normal air pressure. So what it does is it forces the oxygen into the cells. I found I was in the chamber for an hour and a half every day. And I couldn’t wait to get in there. It was I loved it. It was like having a little little cocoon.

    Andrew Stopps 1:04:03

    I just got a blanket in there. And I had my headphones and listened to meditations. And I would just meditate. guided meditations. And just doing that for an hour and a half every day it was it was the best. I mean, if I could afford to buy one, I’d buy one. I just did. You know, it was so good. So good.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:23

    Did you notice improvements in the deficits that help in that way? Is that what you experienced?

    Andrew Stopps 1:04:30

    Yeah, well, well, I did actually. But you know, I don’t know if it’s it was the act of the hyperbaric and the oxygen or it was the fact that for an hour and a half every day

    Andrew Stopps 1:04:43

    I was meditating and I was calm. And I wasn’t thinking about everything. Or a combination of both. I don’t know what it was but I saw improvement. combination of both for sure. Absolutely.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:55

    Meditation is like a superpower if you can meditate and you can put yourself into a state of calm and create the right environment, healing will happen it does.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:07

    But then the hyperbaric doing it in hyperbaric with oxygen in that state is an Amen. What a combination of the two things to do. I love that you meditated. So you’re, are you meditating, sitting down lying down? How do you

    Andrew Stopps 1:05:26

    so it’s like it, you kind of get either seat in there and, but it’s sort of laid back seat. So it’s, it’s not an upright seat. So you’re kind of laying back in the seat. It’s comfortable. And you and you have an I had a thick blanket in there as well.

    Andrew Stopps 1:05:43

    So I was cocooned in this chamber, and the chamber got warm after a while but not like uncomfortably warm, but just nice warm. So yeah, it was just such a safe space. Especially after the stroke, you know, and when everything in your world is chaotic, it was such a nice, calm, safe space for me. I loved it.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:06:13

    Have you been able to recreate that feeling? Same bed with a warm blanket?

    Andrew Stopps 1:06:21

    Yeah, well, I still keep on meditating. Every day. I’m just on my bed, with a warm blanket, but it’s not the same. You know, it’s like I have an eye mask as well. So it’s you know, a blackout. But yeah, there’s some there’s that one element missing? Yeah, look. Yeah, yeah.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:06:46

    Yeah, I love it. So what has stroke taught you?

    Andrew Stopps 1:06:52

    Oh, my God, so much, so much. I mean, where do I start? I guess the most important thing, the most important thing has taught me is that Andrew stops his potential. Andrew stops us from being a musician, husbands educators, or any of the other labels that society gives us. Andrew stops as potential. That’s, that’s what it’s told me.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:07:28

    It’s brilliant. I love that. On that note, Andrew, thank you so much for reaching out. And being on the podcast. I appreciate you connecting with me. And I’m so happy to have you on the show. And I’m glad that you’ve come such a long way, especially since you had that experience earlier on in your life in your mid-20s. And, it and striking that you’ve come out of both of those. And you still talk about your potential. I love it.

    Andrew Stopps 1:07:58

    Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks a lot. I enjoy being here. Thanks for having me.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:08:03

    That’s right, man. Oh, wow, what a chat, Andrew, thank you. I’m gonna edit this and put all my intros and outros in. And it’ll be up in about two weeks. I’ll let you know when it’s up. Yep. I love your work, man. I love what you’re doing. Congratulations. And keep going. If there’s anything you need from me just reach out. If you got to ask if you’re not sure about something, if you want to do the old did this happen to you? Or just let me know.

    Andrew Stopps 1:08:32

    Yeah. Yeah. Like, I was, like, I had such an aha moment when you were describing what happens in the brain. Like with the penumbra, like, Oh, it’s just going oh, my God, why didn’t someone tell me? This is genius. That was perfect. Thanks, man.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:08:49

    You’re welcome. And it’s the same thing that I went through. I had to do constant and never-ending research. You google you name it. And then yeah, I was getting these aha moments again. Okay. All right. I can, I can breathe a sigh of relief, I can deal with that. I can approach it differently.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:09:07

    It’s just I don’t blame doctors and nurses because they do a great job. I mean, without him, we wouldn’t be here. But somebody, there’s going to be some middle person, a liaison that says, here’s a thing. And all it is is like a list of words or stuff. And then there’s a paragraph in the middle of the book about it. Just go there and have a bit of a look.

    Andrew Stopps 1:09:32

    Yeah, well, well, I’ve contacted the local hospital a couple of times now, and just said, Look, can I go in and just sit with newly stroke patients and just answer any questions or just talk to them about their experience? Because, you know, as a teacher, I’m like police checks and everything so that I don’t have to worry about any of that.

    Andrew Stopps 1:09:56

    But that’s it’s too hard for the hospitals to organize it Um, and which is such a shame because like, from the oldest stroke survivors I’ve talked to, they will, you know, they all said they would love to have had someone, they could just sit with them for 20 minutes, you know, in the hospital and just, you know, show them what’s possible.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:10:15

    Can you not do it even as just a guest to the ward? Like? Can you not even just be somebody who turns up and goes for a walk around the ward?

    Andrew Stopps 1:10:26

    I don’t know. I mean.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:10:32

    I mean, with their blessing. You know how sometimes. Some preachers go around or I don’t know who but there are sometimes there’s some advocates that you see flooding around the place. I wonder if they could just let you do it like that?

    Andrew Stopps 1:10:48

    Yeah, well, there’s a Stroke Foundation here. But they’re so underfunded. And I’ve tried to work with them. And like, I mean, even when they came out to visit me, they didn’t come to visit me two or three months after my stroke. And they stayed for like 20 minutes and gave me some pamphlets and left.

    Andrew Stopps 1:11:04

    And it was useless. So I’ve tried to approach them as well, to ask, you know, if they could organize for me to go to the hospital, I like to do that. I really would like to do that. Because, you know, we both know how scary it is. You know, when you’re laying in the hospital, and you don’t know what the hell’s going on.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:11:28

    They need reassurance I immediately sought out somebody through the family who had had a brain hemorrhage in his 20s as well. I never met the guy before, but he just happened to turn up on my doorstep, literally two bloody weeks before my brain surgery. And he had had brain surgery.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:11:47

    So it was like, oh, man, this is exactly what I needed. We went through a lengthy conversation about what to expect and what’s going to happen later and all that it was a game changer. I went into surgery instead of being anxious and afraid. I went in, being calm and confident. Just changed everything.

    Andrew Stopps 1:12:11

    Well, I knew that my dad had a stroke. In the early 2000s, my dad passed away in 2018. So I couldn’t talk to him about it. But I remember, he had had a stroke. And like, he fully recovered, like literally, like we would never know, for the latter part of his life. And so I just kept hanging on to that.

    Andrew Stopps 1:12:35

    Like, if my dad can have a stroke and fully recover, then so alive. But yeah, I would have liked to just have someone who, you know, I can ask questions. Is this normal? is filling this normal? Am I having another stroke? It was that normal, you know?

    Bill Gasiamis 1:12:54

    Reach out anytime, honestly. Well, yes, I mean, it just sent me an email. I always get my emails and we can do a quick catch-up Zoom call or whatever. Or we can just send you a message back. Anytime now. Oh, lovely. Thank you. That’s great. Just give me just give me a 7 am Start by around 7 am is when the world is okay for me anything before that?

    Bill Gasiamis 1:13:17

    Then I’m stuffed. No, no worries. All right, I appreciate it so much. I will get in touch with you and let you know when it’s live. Okay, thanks a lot. Have a great day. See ya. Thanks for joining us on today’s episode to learn more about my guests including links to their social media and other pages.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:13:39

    And to download a full transcript of the entire interview. Please go to recovery after show.com/episodes. If you’d like to try the course on foods to avoid after stroke, go to recovery after stroke.com/courses and get on board now. If you would like to support this podcast, the best way to do it and I would appreciate it if you do is to leave this show a five-star review and a few words about what the show means to you on iTunes and Spotify.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:14:09

    If you’re watching on YouTube, comment below the video. Like this episode and to get notifications of future episodes, subscribe to the show on the platform of your choice. If you are a stroke survivor with a story to share about your experience, come and join me on the show. Interviews are not scripted, you do not have to plan for them.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:14:28

    All you need to do to qualify as a stroke survivor or care for someone who is a stroke survivor. And you are one of the fabulous people who help others who are stroke survivors.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:14:40

    Go to recovery after stroke.com/contact fill out the contact form and as soon as I receive your request I will respond with more tidal with more details on how you could choose a time that works for you and me to meet over Zoom. Thanks again for being here and listening. I appreciate you. See you on the next day. episode

    Intro 1:15:01

    importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals. The opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast are the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed all content on this website at any length blog, podcast, or video material controlled by this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill gaseous the content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing.

    Intro 1:15:35

    It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice. The information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances, or health objectives. Do not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose treat, cure, or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional.

    Intro 1:15:55

    Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional, your doctor, or your rehabilitation program based on our content if you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition, please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional if you are experiencing a health emergency or think you might be, call 000 if in Australia or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance or go to the nearest hospital emergency department medical information changes constantly. While we aim to provide current quality information in our content.

    Intro 1:16:25

    We did not provide any guarantees and assume no legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, currency, or completeness of the content. If you choose to rely on any information within our content, you do so solely at your own risk. We are careful with the links we provide however third-party links from our website are followed at your own risk and we are not responsible for any information you find there.

    The post Brain Tumor, Stroke and Hearing Loss – Andrew Stopps appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

    1 hr 17 min
  • Heart Memory And Stroke – Michael A Petersen

    Michael Andrew Petersen experienced a hemorrhagic stroke due to a vertebral artery dissection and struggled with Memories after the stroke. His doctors are amazed that he is doing so well and not experiencing physical deficits that some other people with conditions similar to his experience.

    Instagram

    Highlights:

    00:47 Introduction – Michael Andrew Petersen

    02:28 Michael’s Memory Loss After The Stroke
    17:40 What Is A Vertebral Artery Dissection?
    28:44 Heart Memory And Stroke
    34:57 Expressing Emotion In A Different Way
    42:50 How One Word Can Change Your Life
    48:35 Why Michael Hasn’t Been Able To Get Back To Work
    1:06:13 The one thing that most people don’t tackle in recovery
    1:12:03 Michael’s Experience And How It Changed Him

    Transcription:

    Michael Andrew Petersen 0:00

    It’s been, you know, almost 11 months, but it’s been the recovery, for me at least has been, and I know my wife’s gonna cringe and my daughters are gonna cringe when they hear me say this, but it’s been really lonely, It’s been the loneliest time of my life.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 0:17

    And I don’t know if that’s common even in rehab, hospital and day rehab. I’ve been surrounded with other people that have been going through the same damn thing, but it’s a lonely process.

    Intro 0:34

    This is the recovery after stroke podcast, with Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after stroke.

    Introduction – Michael Andrew Petersen


    Bill Gasiamis 0:47
    Hello, and welcome once again to the recovery after stroke podcast. This is Bill Gasiamis. And this is episode 240. And my guest today is Michael A. Peterson who experienced a stroke due to a vertebral artery dissection, amongst other things that incident impacted Michael’s ability to access his memories, and also made him a little more emotional. Michael A. Peterson, welcome to the podcast.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 1:16

    Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:18

    Absolute pleasure. Tell me a little bit about what happened to you, Michael.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 1:23

    Well, I did something tonight Bill that I probably wouldn’t recommend. But in preparation for this, I went back through now that all medical records in the United States are largely digital. I went back and I read through the first couple days of being at the ICU, which scared the living hell out of me.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 1:52

    So why was I in the ICU? On September 12, it was a Sunday night. You know, kind of not unusual. We had neighbors over and bunch of little kids running around our house, both of my girls are now in college. So they were off at university and my wife and I had a nice dinner with family and friends. And, you know, I distinctly remember sitting over right over there by my fireplace with one of my young neighbors and playing with a set of Lincoln logs that I played with as a little kid.

    Michael Andrew Petersen – Memory Loss After The Stroke

    Michael Andrew Petersen 2:28

    And I remember having like a dull headache all day. But I didn’t think anything of it. You know, it didn’t impede the night too much. And then my wife and I were just camped out on the couch watching Netflix. And she went upstairs to change. And she said all of a sudden, she heard a noise and she yelled at me. Like I had stumbled into something and stumbled into a shelf and knock something down.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 3:01

    And I didn’t answer her which she thought was odd. And she knew something was off. And she came right down. And I was standing in my kitchen kind of leaned over my sink, like I was going to be sick. And she said are you alright? I looked at her and she said, all you told me was to call an ambulance that I needed to go to the hospital.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 3:30

    And I’ve listened to enough of the podcasts that you’ve done and others have done to know that it’s not so strange, but I have very little memory of that first month, like almost none, which is another reason I found it so intriguing to read through the medical notes. So my wife called the ambulance I’m standing in the kitchen. The people on the 911 tell her to get me down to the ground.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 4:03

    They said the worst thing that can happen to your husband is having a fall. They suspected a stroke right off the bat. And they said get him to the ground and wait for the ambulance. So the drivers got here and you know, they got me into a pulled up right into my driveway got me into the ambulance. And no sooner did I get into the ambulance and you know, all that blood that was on my brain told my heart to stop.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 4:39

    So I went into cardiac arrest. I just read the reports. Like it’s really detailed Bill, it’s crazy, like how many compressions and you know for how long and it’s it’s scary. So I went into cardiac arrest about three different times. Once in my driveway, once at the hospital, and then once when they were taking me to the stroke center.

    Bill Gasiamis 5:05

    It looks like you’re getting a little bit emotional reliving this.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 5:15

    Yeah, it was pretty emotional. I mean, I couldn’t help but I literally I had just listened to I think your episode 100 that you did with your wife. And I mean it brought a lot of it back to me and I just I mean that episode for me it was very special and I made my wife listen to it as well, because I haven’t been able to thank her. Because she did everything right. She did everything right.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 5:51

    And I just I can’t imagine her having to try to resuscitate me on the on the kitchen floor for God’s sake. You know, like I just, I’m so glad that she took it seriously enough. She called the ambulance she got the professionals here. Because I mean. Not a lot of people can say this about their spouse, but I can honestly say that I owe my life to my wife. She literally saved my life.

    Bill Gasiamis 6:20

    Yeah, yeah, you know, you are still there to argue with her though, right? So she did save your life. And arguments that happened in the future are still legit, they’re still okay to do. And she’s from time to die. She’s allowed to be, you’re allowed to call her out when she’s wrong. Because doesn’t matter that she saved your life. Sometimes she can still be wrong as all spouses can. And I struggled for a little bit of time after I took her down.

    Bill Gasiamis 6:54

    I had to take my wife down from the pedestal a little bit as well. Yeah. And we had to get back into the routine of being married and normal and all that kind of stuff. And part of that was to argue about the stupid things. And part of it was to argue about all those things that we say it’s insignificant. I know, I don’t know why I should have I why we argued about that. But they’re important because they get you to they get you too.

    Bill Gasiamis 7:25

    It’s part of communication. It’s a part that we don’t prefer if we stay there, it’s not nice. But we do we do have to have arguments without our significant others in our spouses. Right. So she did do the right thing.

    Bill Gasiamis 7:40

    She’s nailed it as far as all of the all of the things that you would hope that somebody gets to experience during an illness is that they get to experience the clear mindedness, the rationality, the action taking of the person that’s opposite them or near them or wherever.

    Bill Gasiamis 8:02

    And some people don’t know how to respond, because I, I know that for a long time, I was downplaying all my issues. And because I appeared well, and I did a lot of downplaying of it. It did make my wife second guessed some of the things that she was feeling instinctively, but it doesn’t sound like you had any opportunity to downplay anything.

    Bill Gasiamis 8:24

    Was there any lead up to that event? Did you notice anything coming up to that event? That you now on reflection, go wow, that was probably it.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 8:38

    Not necessarily, you know, like, it’s, it’s really strange, like, outside of the fact that I did have, you know, I don’t suffer from headaches, I never have, maybe as a little kid or whatever, I’m sure. You know, I think I remembered something or other but but not as an adult. So it was unusual to have this trailing headache for three, four days. And I kind of blamed it on you know, I very rarely, very rarely go out in the middle of the week for a beer or whatever.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 9:10

    And I I’d gone out on a Wednesday night with some buddies and did this microbrewery and had a beer too. And I just remember thinking, gosh, you know, like, I’m not doing that again, because that I just can’t shake this headache from that. And meanwhile, you know, like, I didn’t realize, you know, like, I had a dissected artery, you know, that was, you know, you know, pushing blood into my brain, you know, for round about three, four or five days.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 9:46

    So, you know, it’s, I don’t really recall. And I think that I think at least from what I’ve heard, and a lot of other people recounting stories is that that a lot of my memory memory issues stem from even the time like once that, that blood starts getting into your brain, it’s it’s, it’s doing things that you don’t realize, and it’s clouding that. But I spent a little over two weeks at the local hospital, the ICU. And I mean, I’m a, I’m a visual person.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 10:27

    That’s what I do for a profession. My at the rehab hospital, I could I could sketch you, Bill, I could sketch you in intricate detail my room, and I could point out details that you wouldn’t believe. I don’t remember one thing about the room at the ICU.

    Bill Gasiamis 10:46

    Just a quick break and we’ll be right back to the interview. As a stroke survivor, I understand the difficulties of finding the right information about post stroke nutrition. That’s why I developed a course by foods to avoid after stroke. While most people are talking about what to eat after a stroke to support brain health, and recovery, very few are talking about what you should avoid eating after a stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 11:09

    If you want to support your brain to heal, curious about the five foods that may make matters worse when you consume them, then you may benefit from this course. In the fun five series of interviews, you’ll hear about what foods not to eat after a stroke. But most importantly, why not.

    Bill Gasiamis 11:27

    From a qualified nutritionist Stacy Turner and performance coach Mathias Turner. In the more than five hours of interviews, we discuss the five common foods that cause inflammation in the body and brain and how they could interfere with healing and how they may make fatigue worse, for just $49.

    Bill Gasiamis 11:46

    This five-part series have more than five hours of interviews with full PDF transcripts for download. mp3 is for download, and videos will give you everything that you need to know about the five foods to avoid and why the modules include eight reasons to quit sugar after a stroke. seven reasons to quit caffeine after a stroke, eight reasons to quit gluten after a stroke, six reasons to quit dairy after a stroke, and six reasons to quit alcohol after a stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 12:18

    And probably that is one of the most important things that you have to and should quit after a stroke. It’s interfering with your recovery, visit recovery after stroke.com/courses. For this and other specifically designed short and easy-to-understand courses that are made by a stroke survivor for stroke survivors.

    Bill Gasiamis 12:39

    Once again, you’ll get more than five hours of content, all audio is available to download in mp3 format for listening on the go full transcript of all the content to take notes on or read instead of listen to presented by a stroke survivor four stroke survivors. also presented by a trained nutritionist and performance coach, you will also get 24 hours of access, lifetime access to courses purchased. And you’ll be able to interact with yours truly, in the comments section.

    Bill Gasiamis 13:11

    Go to recovery after stroke.com/courses to check them out now.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 13:16

    Not I couldn’t tell you one day I couldn’t tell you if the walls were white. Like I have no idea. I wouldn’t I wouldn’t be able to tell you give you one detail about any of it. Yeah. Which is amazing to me. Like it’s it’s kind of strange to me. But

    Bill Gasiamis 13:34

    I relate to a lot of the people who I speak to about stroke. It’s kind of like a out of world experience. It’s you’re in the world, but you’re not in the world. It’s kind of like zoned out should be kind of experienced. That’s how I I felt. And there wasn’t a lot of things that made sense until people explained them to me later.

    Bill Gasiamis 13:55

    And now I think I have a memory of their explanation rather than the actual memory of being there. And it’s not uncommon because there’s the brains in just a completely different phase or space or it’s operating under duress. There’s a whole bunch of different things going on. So how long did you end up spending in hospital?

    Michael Andrew Petersen 14:21

    So I was you know, it’s interesting I’ve been, I’ve been I’ve been telling the story wrong for and it’s it’s probably it’s a I’m sure my wife will will pinpoint all of the inaccuracies for me when she listens to this. But I found out tonight that I thought I was in the ICU for about three weeks and it was it only turned out to be a little over two weeks. Because I was able to look at the dates in which I was there and then I was immediately transferred.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 14:53

    I don’t really start to make memories until I was in a like a little meta taxi and I live outside of Chicago in Evanston, so just north, and I was fortunate enough to do my rehab at at surely Ryan ability Lab, which is kind of becoming a renowned Rehabilitation Hospital in the in the Chicagoland area. So I was fortunate enough to be able to, to, to get a place there. And my wife worked really hard to get me in.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 15:24

    But I don’t really start to form memories until I was in this little meta taxi that they took me into get me from, you know, north of Chicago down into the city of Chicago. And the guy was such a terrible driver that I was just like, and I’m in the middle of this little, you know, van on a gurney and getting thrown around.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 15:45

    And I’m like, I don’t know, I don’t know where the hell I’m at. I don’t know, what am I doing in this thing? I don’t know where I’m going. I don’t have anybody to ask because I’m by myself. And but I can see, you know, like I’ve run these lakefront paths my entire life, and I know exactly where I’m at.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 15:45

    And I know I’m going downtown. I just don’t know why. And then the strangest thing was, is I, I don’t know where the hell I’m at. And I don’t know why I’m in there. But I know that I don’t have much sensation in my legs. And that scared the hell out of me.

    Bill Gasiamis 16:25

    You need to be there, you’re going somewhere where it’s necessary for you to go. But you don’t know why or how or what, you know, details around the budget kind of going with the flow of this drive, ya know much about?

    Michael Andrew Petersen 16:40

    Well, and then, you know, because of the pandemic or the COVID protocols, my wife had to be able to test into the hospital. So she had to go through testing before they would let her go in. So that first day, I showed up at the rehabilitation hospital.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 16:57

    And there was nobody there to tell me what the hell had happened. I didn’t realize like, until the, it took a two or three days of me, you know, because I had to take it in slowly. But I just I like over the course of the next three, four days, my wife had to tell me everything that happened.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 17:24

    And she had to tell me all that it had gone on. You know, I mean from, you know, the stroke, to go into the hospital, the cardiac arrests to the, you know, all of it.

    What Is A Vertebral Artery Dissection?

    Bill Gasiamis 17:40

    You know, what I just what’s rare is the people that I’ve interviewed that have had vertebral artery dissections or any other artery dissection, it’s very rare that it’s a hemorrhagic causes a hemorrhagic stroke. So normally, it causes an ischemic stroke, because the tear happens on the inside of the blood vessel, and it creates a flap that changes the blood flow, and causes a little low and high pressure system inside and forms clots and the clot travels up.

    Bill Gasiamis 18:13

    So the the artery is still intact on the outside. Whereas what’s happened for you is the artery has dissected from the outside causing a hole in your artery and therefore a hemorrhagic stroke. And as a result of that, you’re because it’s such a large artery, then it’s leaking so much blood that the heart is having trouble regulating the blood flow, and it stops.

    Bill Gasiamis 18:40

    So a friend of mine who lives in Melbourne where I live, a guy that I met a couple of weeks before my brain surgery, he was driving his dad’s truck, which was their furniture there. They have a kitchen manufacturing, cabinet making business. And he was driving his dad’s truck full of cabinets to take to a particular job site crashed, had a vertebral artery dissection caused a hemorrhagic stroke, crushed the truck into a pole.

    Bill Gasiamis 19:13

    And when they got there, they thought that because he was a young kid, they thought that he was on drugs. The police called the phone number on the side of the truck, spoke to the dad and said to him, your son has been involved in a collision, what drugs is he on? And if that’s going, it’s not on any drugs man could get him some help or what have you.

    Bill Gasiamis 19:32

    And he was Andrew was telling me that he was going in and out of cardiac arrest because that would restart his heart that would cause further leakage. And then as a result of that he would bleed out then things would go out of whack then his heart would suffer big and then he explained to me what you explained and in the 200 or more episodes that I’ve done, you and Andrew Andrew has not been interviewed.

    Bill Gasiamis 19:55

    You and Andrew are the only two people that I’ve come across that have had that type of I’m dissection. So it’s very rare. And, and it sounds like it could be more catastrophic. But I am going to make a real general statement here, but you’re looking quite well, for somebody who’s had such a serious surgery situation. I know you’re not your former self. So where are you at compared to where you were? What are you dealing with that you have to overcome?

    Michael Andrew Petersen 20:31

    You know, it’s, it’s interesting, and, you know, in getting back to, you know, my, like I was, you know, I was I’m a runner I attended, I turned to running a number of years ago, because I’m in advertising. And I got out of college, myself, and I got into the business, and I put on a lot of weight that I didn’t need, that I had got married and had kids, and I decided at that point, I’m like, you know, my kids are too important.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 21:05

    My family’s too important. So I took the weight off, and I really did it by, you know, a good, one of my best friends, you know, got me into running. And that, that was not only was it did allow me to help and watching what I ate. But it got me to the point where I, you know, could do that. And I’ve since run a number of half marathons and full marathons.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 21:31

    And, you know, so luckily, I mean, I was at the point bill, where I was running 2535 miles a week, going into my stroke. So I think going into that, I was in probably the, you know, like, like, I’ve heard a lot from people doing these interviews, I was in the best health of my life go into into my stroke, which I think, inevitably helped me get through the recovery.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 22:01

    A lot better. You know, but when I, when I got to the rehab hospital, and I was, you know, didn’t have much sensation in my, you know, I was left side, so it affected my left side bleed right side was affected. And I, I just, I couldn’t feel my legs for the life of me. And then, you know, when you’re at a rehab hospital, it’s like, Hey, I didn’t, I didn’t, I didn’t know where I was, my wife wasn’t there, I didn’t have anything to wear.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 22:36

    And they’re like, you got you got a PT session. And I was like, I don’t think I have shoes. Like I, I didn’t even know where I was this morning. And, you know, like, to their defense, like, they, they found stuff for me, and they got me up and they got me moving. But that’s really, that was probably the best thing for me is to just get me up and get me moving.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 23:02

    And the stroke, just tore up my vestibular system. I, I’ve never had an issue with balance in my entire life. And I could not, I couldn’t walk straight line without tipping over. So, you know, I spent, you know, the first couple of weeks, learning how to walk again, without falling over, learn how to get up and down stairs. And then, you know, and then the real hard work started, it was like all of the, you know, all the cognitive work, and all the OT.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 23:43

    And that, that was probably even more frightening, you know, then, you know, than the physical stuff, the physical, like, I don’t know why. But I was convinced that was like, I was convinced that I was not going to let anything like physical stand in my way. You know, like I was, I just, I had in my head that I was going to whatever the obstacles were, I was going to work like hell to overcome them.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 24:12

    And then as you know, because you’ve been through a lot of this therapy yourself, you’re walking on a treadmill, and they’ve got you manipulating something in your hand. And all of a sudden, the OT starts asking you questions. So you’re now you’re doing, you’re walking, you’re manipulating something with your a ball in your hand or whatever. And they start asking you to name vegetables, start with a and go through Z.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 24:37

    And I got to I couldn’t, I couldn’t come up with one for D. And it scared the living hell out of me. And then it was like, Well, let’s not do vegetables, let’s do animals. And then the same thing would happen. And I couldn’t, I would just get stuck. And I couldn’t. I couldn’t recall any like, I knew what it was But I couldn’t believe it was like, it was like having your hard drive full of all these files.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 25:06

    And you know, you’ve created this file and you put a lot of time and effort into making this file. And you know, right where it is, but you can’t get to it. And if you can’t get to it, you can’t look at it. And then if you can’t look at it, you can’t read it back to the person that’s asking you the question. And the recall was the trickiest thing for me. But I, I write when I thought, like, I was like, in real deep trouble with, with my cognitive stuff.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 25:35

    And my memory, and I couldn’t remember anything. And like, I was really fearful that I just remember it was a weekend and rehab hospital on a weekend is not any place you want to be. It’s so lonely. It’s just so desolate. And they got me strapped up in this harness, because they didn’t trust that I wouldn’t fall over.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 25:57

    So I’m in the harness and walking. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. They don’t want this guy to tip over. And I hate I hated that belt that they that gait belt. Oh, I hated it, when they put that out there just made me feel like, so terrible. But I knew I knew why they were doing it.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 26:19

    But this group of this group of PTS that I got to know and they were, it was a week, it was a Sunday, and they’re like, Hey, do you do care if we put on a music like what do you like, and I was like, whatever you guys are listening to, I’m sure. I’ll like it. And I just remember, it was a it was a song by the cure that I used to play in my college radio days.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 26:50

    And, and I just remember it was is a song that’s very personal to me. And I just remember, all of a sudden, I caught myself and I, I was singing it in my head and under my breath. And I knew every word of that song. And I was like, it made me feel so good.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 27:10

    And I just it took me right back to a beach vacation that I was just on with my kids and my wife and my dear friends and, and I was just flooded with all this emotion of, of all these images of these friends of mine that are so close to these amazing people in my life. And I was just so comforted to know that I knew the song. I knew the lyrics to the song and I just felt like shit, I’m gonna be okay. Like x, I get it. There’s something up there and it’s coming out.

    Intro 27:41

    If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. Like how long will it take to recover? Will I actually recover? What things should I avoid? In case I make matters worse, and doctors will explain things that obviously, you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask.

    Intro 28:06

    If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you it’s called seven questions to ask your doctor about your stroke.

    Intro 28:25

    These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition, and they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery. Head to the website. Now, recoveryafterstroke.com and download the guide. It’s free.

    Heart Memory And Stroke

    Bill Gasiamis 28:41

    I’m gonna actually throw a bit of a spanner in the works here. So I reckon I’ve got a hypothesis as to it’s not my hypothesis or something I came up with, but it’s something I’ve come to understand and learn about where you store memories. And you know how you hear about dementia patients who they don’t know.

    Bill Gasiamis 29:05

    They don’t know their head from their bum. But as soon as you put a song on, they get up and they start dancing and singing the words and remembering right? So and the reason you explained that as it was emotional. So what I think, well, my hypothesis is and there’s a bit of research to suggest that I’m kind of on the right track by other people, not by me. I haven’t done any research like that or studies, is that the heart has memory.

    Bill Gasiamis 29:37

    The heart also has neurons, it has between 30 and 120,000. People who are “heartless” have 30,000 or less people who are young at heart have 120,000 or more. And memories like that about I remember my first song that when it comes on, I remember my girlfriend, you know, the one that I was with when I was 12. You know.

    Bill Gasiamis 30:08

    And those memories are not stored. In the head, I reckon they’re stored in the heart, and they are accessed by the head and, brought to life or back to sort of our memory via the head. But I think they’re stored elsewhere. And that’s why a lot of people will go through these terrible neurological issues, and then still be able to remember a song they did, they danced in 30s, or whenever, as, as well as that.

    Bill Gasiamis 30:39

    Many years ago, I met a guy who had had a heartbreak, from a relationship that had failed, he was a musician. And one of the things that he couldn’t do was sing the songs that he used to sing. It’s not that he couldn’t actually sing because put another, put another track on the radio, he can sing with it. And that was all fine. And he didn’t have any neurological issues. He actually couldn’t access the songs.

    Bill Gasiamis 31:08

    To sing them similar. He described it in the same way that we can’t access words after a stroke. Sometimes. He described it in a similar way he goes, he knows the song title, he knows where it’s at. He knows where to go, but he can’t open it, get there, express it, and sing it in tune in in key along along with the music that he used to play on his own guitar. Yeah, right.

    Bill Gasiamis 31:35

    So for me, I said to him, well, it makes sense to me when you told me before that, that you’ve had a heartbreak, and it’s really emotionally painful. And and every time you go to your heart, you get your break down. And it’s hard for you because you’ve never gone there because you’re a man and you know, you, men don’t cry and all this rubbish.

    Bill Gasiamis 32:02

    But now, you can’t sing a song because you don’t want to go with a song is because it’s going to be emotional, it’s going to be hard. And I think it’s in your heart. And I left him with that information to do whatever he wanted to. And I feel like there’s a bit of, for me, at least I relate to that.

    Bill Gasiamis 32:18

    When I say it, like that’s that’s kind of how I experienced the same thing. And I wonder if people listening will relate in a similar way. And if they are, please do let me know in the comments or reach out on Instagram. And let me know. If that does resonate. How do you feel about what I just said?

    Michael Andrew Petersen 32:35

    Yeah, it it’s, I, I feel like, and I think I, I heard your, I think you just were talking about the neurons in the heart recently with another guest. And I remember, I remember thinking of that, and thinking, you’re right on, it was spot on like it, that it, there’s got to be something to that.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 33:06

    Because I do feel like, you know, I was so cloudy. And I was so unsure of anything that was happening up here that it must have happened in here, you know, like, and that’s all I could think of when I was listening to you just a couple days ago, I was listening to that, that that podcast, so

    Bill Gasiamis 33:27

    I hit my head completely switched off, and it and I couldn’t use it for anything. And my heart came on to the point where I was recognizing a new sensation in my chest. And I didn’t know what the hell it was. And it was my heart. It was making this fear. It was creating these weird experiences and feelings.

    Bill Gasiamis 33:50

    And I had no idea what it was. And I discovered later that it was my heart. And that’s part of the emotional journey that I went on. You know, people describe it as the pseudo Baba effect where stroke survivors get very emotional over nothing, or what seems like it’s over nothing.

    Bill Gasiamis 34:09

    But for me, what I think it was is like the heart coming online. And you know, it’s kind of dysregulated at that point in time. And it’s kind of doesn’t know how to be online. And it just kind of comes out out of nowhere, because things that are technically not emotional shouldn’t be triggering tears.

    Bill Gasiamis 34:31

    But they, for some reason do indeed and still do from time to time. So I think it’s like an over-expression of the heart at some stages, you get an over-expression because it’s never had the opportunity to express itself to that level. At least in my body. It didn’t because I wouldn’t allow him

    Expressing Emotion In A Different Way

    Michael Andrew Petersen 34:57

    Yeah, it’s, you know it I’ve Uh, you know, I, there’s, there’s a lot of truth to that. And you know, like, there’s, I wish I could say I’m one of those tough guys, that’s, that’s never shed a tear or whatever, but my wife and my two girls would tell you that’s not true.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 35:15

    I mean, I, I do tend to get kind of emotional. And I don’t know if I’m any more emotional now than I am that I always happen. I don’t think so. Hell, I don’t know, I don’t live with myself. Yeah, I guess I, I will have to ask them. But

    Bill Gasiamis 35:34

    I express it differently though. Before I was expressing emotion in anger. To perhaps I don’t know, well, maybe it’s the only one I knew how to express I express that in, in, in external displays of anger, you know, yelling, screaming, you know, doing all that kind of stuff.

    Bill Gasiamis 35:58

    Whereas now I express it in tears in sobbing in quiet, more quiet time in withdrawing rather than engaging in an angry or, you know, seriously emotional state. And I think that’s what’s changed for me. It’s, I express it differently. I was highly emotional, but you wouldn’t know it. I was going about it the wrong way.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 36:26

    Yeah. Yeah, I think, you know, like, I laugh, and it’s, you know, you, you, you spent so much time early on, in, in recovery with, with some of these PTs and OTs or whatever. And I was like, gosh, now I, I feel like to a certain degree, like, I gotta go back and talk to these people, and let them know that I’m not absolutely crazy, because I was, I was super emotional at the time by I had one.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 37:01

    One physical therapist in particular, who, you know, I really identified with and I kept seeing, my, my eldest daughter is studying kinesiology here in the United States. And she is going on to, she would like to be a physical therapist, and I kept seeing my daughter in this person.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 37:24

    And I get better, and I would get emotional, because I was like, This is so perfect for my daughter, she’s going to be so great at this. This is like, the most perfect profession for her to enter. And it would get me really emotional. And they must have thought I was crazy. And then I would, you know, do your kids.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 37:50

    So I thought I would talk about my girls all the time, to these poor people, and they’re like, good enough, but the kids stories guy, we get it, let’s get let’s get these through these exercises and get you back to your room.

    Bill Gasiamis 38:04

    Look, I know that you think that they’ll think you’re you’re not but they didn’t. Because they’ve seen it all before. And they know what’s happening. And they know that it’s a, you know, a life, a threat to your life will make you do strange things and say strange things, especially when your head still not completely online.

    Bill Gasiamis 38:24

    All of the things that you did have been done by somebody before you already, you know, and they do it for a living. So they see it every day. And we’re the ones that feel uncomfortable with it. Until you get to that point and you go, okay, I can be comfortable with every way that I behave, because I’m no different to any other human.

    Bill Gasiamis 38:44

    And what I wasn’t, and what I was uncomfortable with was the behavior that was not useful, or the behavior that was making somebody else feel worse. That was the part that I really became uncomfortable with later. At the beginning. It was you know, feeling self conscious.

    Bill Gasiamis 39:03

    And then later on, it was like, Okay, I need to stop being an idiot when it’s not necessary to act a certain way, you know, and it gave me the ability to reflect, do a lot of reflecting, and going, you know, if, if today was my last day, would I want to write be happy with that last interaction with that person, you know?

    Bill Gasiamis 39:25

    And then it’s like, yeah, let’s undo some of that harm that I had done in the past. Not that I was a total asshole. I was just an an. I was just a an wise person who had very few resources because I never studied the things that I didn’t know I needed to study. You know, how do you know what you don’t know?

    Michael Andrew Petersen 39:48

    Yeah. Yeah. It’s not to not to take this on a downward spiral. or anything, but it’s it’s, you know, one of the things that that I was thinking about today was that it’s it’s been, you know, almost 11 months, but it’s been, you know, the recovery, for me at least has been, you know, and I know my wife’s gonna cringe and my daughters are gonna cringe when they hear me say this, but it’s been, it’s been really lonely.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 40:26

    It’s been the loneliest time of my life. And I don’t know if that’s common, or it’s, it’s like, I’m surrounded like, and since I’ve even in rehab, rehab, hospital and day rehab, I’ve been surrounded with other people that have been going through the same damn thing. But it’s not. It’s still, it’s a lonely process.

    Bill Gasiamis 40:49

    Yes, it’s, it is. And that’s the strange part about is trying to explain it to family, because they’re around you, they’re supporting you, they love you. They’re always with you. And you feel lonely. And it’s not because of them. It’s because of what it does to you, but also how how you relate to the rest of the world, because you now don’t relate to the rest of your family the way that you did before the hemorrhagic stroke, right.

    Bill Gasiamis 41:18

    And you’re, you’re related to them. All of those things are still there. But then there’s this new version of you inside this new expression. And it’s like, What the hell do I do with it, let alone how do I recover from it or with it? And how do I explain the unexplainable to other people so they can get me. And for me, I’m still on that journey. 200, and nearly 10 episodes of the podcast is, this is an attempt to explain it to my family.

    Bill Gasiamis 41:52

    This is why one of the reasons why the podcast exists, as well as to feel less alone. So that I can find people that are like me. And it just so happens that there are around the world, and they’re all over the place, but they get me in this one hour that we have, I get them, they get me and I feel better about myself for a week, you know.

    Bill Gasiamis 42:17

    And it’s for my family, this is for my family, if anyone wanted to get an insight into what it was like to go through what I go through, all they had to do is tune into the podcast, but they don’t. And the reason they don’t is because I haven’t made a point of it. But if they choose to they will.

    Bill Gasiamis 42:36

    But the reason they don’t is because I don’t want them to be forever living my their life via my filter of stroke. And the only way they’re going to know what strokes like is to have one. And I don’t want them to have a stroke.

    How One Word Can Change Your Life – Michael Andrew Petersen

    Michael Andrew Petersen 42:50

    Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I don’t, I don’t wish it on anyone. You know, like it’s, but at the same time, you know, it and this has taken, you know, it’s taken me a long, long time to get to this. And it’s, I I’m, I’m getting to the point where coming to the realizations, this isn’t something that happened to me. But it’s something that happened for me.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 43:28

    And, and just the nuance of that one little word, you know, really does change everything. And I think it’s made me recognize that I didn’t really like the person that I that I was a lot of the time, I didn’t like, you know, you know, but this has given me an opportunity to rethink and reimagine who I am and what I can be, which is, is pretty, pretty amazing.

    Bill Gasiamis 44:04

    Let’s unpack that for a little bit. You’re married, you’ve got a family, you got kids. You got you’re in advertising, you probably deal with people all day, every day. They most of them, like you to some extent. And you didn’t like the person that you had become or were becoming, like, which aspects of yourself Didn’t you like?

    Michael Andrew Petersen 44:38

    I think that when you’re, you know, when you when you have your own business and you and you, you’re so driven. Then you become so fixated on the one thing that you do, and it becomes almost too important. And then I realized really quickly like hell I did that. I remember getting the the rehab hospital.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 45:02

    I was thinking, you know, one of my questions, my wife was like, hey, I need to contact these these clients. She’s like, No, you don’t. She’s like, No, you don’t. And I said, I mean, I’ve got, I’ve got meetings. And she’s like, Michael, it’s, it’s been weeks. And I said, like, I’m like, What month is it? She’s like, it’s, it’s October.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 45:32

    And it’s just, like, all of a sudden, I just, I listened to her, you know, I just listened to her. And I said, You know what it doesn’t. It’s inconsequential. Like, it’s not as important. It probably wasn’t even as important at the time. But I made it important. Which, you know, you have to do as a professional. But I’ve gone through an event in my life, that, that that really, truly did change me, I think, I hope, I hope

    Bill Gasiamis 46:08

    that sounds like it, you’re reflecting on it things differently. I had a business as well as still have a business other than this, that I do. And it was. And it was my first thing was, I’ve got a, it was Saturday. And we were supposed to be a work Saturday, and it was 15 people relying on me to be there, I was running a project.

    Bill Gasiamis 46:29

    And my first thing was, Oh, I’ve got a call work and let them know I won’t be there that will complete a capable of getting that John job done on their own without me. But I thought that it was revolving around me and I had to be the person. So that led me to say that approach was what made my business successful.

    Bill Gasiamis 46:54

    And it made me able to earn money and do all the things that I thought I needed. But it did keep me away from my, the rest of my life for the majority of the week, and the weekends, a lot of the times, which meant that I had very little downtime. I had very little me time, I had very little stuff that I enjoyed doing that was part of my passion projects, for example.

    Bill Gasiamis 47:20

    And as a result of that I was getting I was kind of resenting a lot of the things that I had to do for other people, because I had a priority, my priority was my clients, and I never wanted to say no to them. Whereas now, my clients will call me and I won’t speak to them for the day, I won’t respond to their phone call right now, or at five o’clock in the evening, or at seven o’clock in the morning.

    Bill Gasiamis 47:46

    I’ll respond to them when I’m good and ready. And if they have to wait 24 hours, then that’s fine. I’m not going to kill myself to do that. And I didn’t like that aspect of myself then. And that’s not how I am now. So I can relate to what you’re saying is that business goes on life goes on.

    Bill Gasiamis 48:03

    But the way that I set the expectation for my clients, which is the part that’s over and above delivering the right outcome to get paid, right. Everything else can be adjusted, and you can tweak and you can retrain them that when you when they call they’re not going to get the phone answer any time of the day.

    Why Michael Hasn’t Been Able To Get Back To Work

    Michael Andrew Petersen 48:30

    Yeah. So, you’ve been, you know, I kind of feel like I’m relatively new to this. So, you know, what don’t I know, Bill? Like, what going on, you know, like, coming up on a year, you know? And I haven’t been able to get back to, to the office yet. There’s a lot of things that I haven’t been able to get back to, but, you know, what’s what’s year two like?

    Bill Gasiamis 49:06

    Tell me why you haven’t been able to get back to the office yet. And I’ll give you a bit of an insight.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 49:15

    You know, like, so I haven’t been cleared, I’m still going through a lot of my, you know, kind of speech and occupational therapy, a lot of the cognitive therapies. So, but I think, you know, towards the end of September, you know, I’ll be I’ll get cleared to go back to work.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 49:38

    You know, and, and I do remember vividly, you know, like one of the, one of the first meetings that I had that I really kind of took everything in, you know, the doctor, I was at the rehab hospital and I was, you know, I was starting to figure out what the hell was going on.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 49:56

    And she said, Hey, she’s like, I’m going to I want you to understand that this isn’t, this isn’t weeks, it’s not months, she’s like, you’re not, you’re not even gonna feel like yourself until a year. And she’s like, in a very well could be two years, she’s like, so the worst thing that you can do right now is to push too hard. And to get back into things too quickly.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 50:23

    She said, because you’ve, you’ve, you’ve always lived your life at a very high level, and your business is very demanding. And she’s like, and you will let yourself down. And that’s the one thing you won’t be able to live with is the disappointment that you’ll create and yourself by going back to early, and getting put in a situation that you cannot deal with, she’s like, and you will, you’ll never forgive yourself, and it’ll slow you down.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 50:55

    And she’s like, I just don’t want to see that. Because I mean, I wanted, I wanted to leave the rehab hospital after a month and, and my office was four miles from us, but I wonder, like, I’ll just go in right now, you know, pick up where I left off, and I was convinced otherwise.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 51:13

    And then I think, I think through the recovery process, you realize, like, hey, this, all that. All that damage up there, all those things that kind of used to work and fire together, that got unstuck, that takes a while to come back together. You know, and I, I feel

    Bill Gasiamis 51:37

    Good, I was gonna say one of the ways that it comes back better is when you do it. So I know why they told you not to go back after a month, and I was told similar things. And I agree, I agree. At the same time depends on the mindset and the kind of guy that you are, if how you take losses and hits, if you if they really make you down and depressed, and all that kind of stuff, or if they inspire you to go further.

    Bill Gasiamis 52:03

    So think about the first time you ran a marathon or the first time, you know, you’re terrible at it, or you weren’t anywhere near as good as you were the second set third, fourth or fifth time, but what you did is you created a, a baseline for where to begin from.

    Bill Gasiamis 52:21

    And you remember how hard it was to recover from that first marathon, how much pain you were in how long the pain lasted, and the rest of it was stroke similar, you’ll go, you’ll go, you’ll go, you will hit a brick wall, and then there’s a price to pay after that. Just like our marathon and recovery, it’s gonna take X amount of time for you to get back to feeling energized again or in or Well, again, or, or better than you did after that big exertion.

    Bill Gasiamis 52:49

    So part of the thing that you need to do is you need to now start to exert yourself, see where your limit is. And see if you can go beyond that. Just a little. And then and then see how long it takes to recover. Do it as a as a project of learning where you’re at, rather than I’m going to set a deadline. And Dammit, I’m going to get to that deadline.

    Bill Gasiamis 53:12

    And then if you don’t get to the deadline, feel shit about yourself. There’s no need for that. And deadlines are terrible in stroke recovery, forget about deadlines, just set goals, and try and get to the goal rather than to the goal by a time. Yeah, if you don’t put a time on it, then that’s far better. I think you’ll feel better about it.

    Bill Gasiamis 53:35

    And then also, you’ll be able to show to people that you’re learning about yourself and that I’m going to exert myself, you guys have to have my back, trust me. And then when I crumble in a heap because I’m too exhausted, I will recover. And I’m going to show you that I’ll do the right thing after that to recover.

    Bill Gasiamis 53:56

    And then you’ll understand that I’m actually taking this seriously. And I’m not trying to go back to my old self and the guy who overdid everything. As far as work was concerned, I’m going to go back and test my my boundaries. So I can rediscover how to be a new version of myself like how can I evolve and solve these problems rather than be be afraid of them and be overwhelmed by them?

    Bill Gasiamis 54:30

    It took me six years because my strokes happened over and brain surgery happened over three years almost. So I had a long time of off again on again off again on again, and not know and uncertainty. And then when the surgery happened, that created more certainty that there wasn’t going to be another stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 54:55

    But it created a lot of recovery that I never thought I never knew. was coming. And a lot of that was cognitive recovery, recovering, being able to look at a screen for a long period of time and do all of that side of my work physically, I could do tons. But cognitively, I couldn’t do a lot.

    Bill Gasiamis 55:13

    And there was, the only way I could do it was to pay the price of going too far. And then that was retraining the muscle. And it was also teaching me where my limit was, so that if I did want to do some work, and be fully active at work, I knew that I could go until 1pm.

    Bill Gasiamis 55:34

    And then, no matter what, I’m going home, and there’s no one more email after 1pm No, that was it. I’m out of here, guys, you know, next email, I’ll handle tomorrow. So I think maybe you can consider whether you’re whether you’re at that stage of your recovery now the years approaching. And, and kind, you know, you know, kindly push yourself a little beyond what your comfort zone is now.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 56:12

    Yeah, yeah, I feel like I’m doing it in a couple of different ways, you know, I haven’t, I’ve been fortunate enough, I’ve got, you know, I think you do your recovery process, you also really, your true friends who really stand out.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 56:32

    And the people that really care about you, you know, and it’s, it’s cements you, and there’s a couple people in my life that that, you know, that knew that I needed, you know, I needed to get back into, you know, you know, I just by my recovery, you know, you can only you can only tell your OTs and PTs so much, you know, and then they need, they need to know that you’re, you’re doing something that you used to do.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 57:06

    And this is what you’re running into, that you can’t get past. So, I’ve been able to work with a couple friends on some little, little pieces here and there, that have really, really helped me and challenged me, you know, and then I was cleared, they put this fancy pump in the back of my head, so I have a shunt or whatever.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 57:36

    So I couldn’t, I couldn’t do a lot of impact exercise for awhile, and I’ve been cleared to get back running. And so as of the last two weeks, that’s been the most humbling experience I’ve come across yet. I mean, it’s, it’s like, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s tough. It’s tough. I mean, I’m knowing I’m used to running.

    Bill Gasiamis 58:03

    Know, you’re running mine, and you’re doing it from a place of not being able to run once upon a time at all. Yeah, no.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 58:13

    Big deal. It is. So, like, it’s, you know, I’m, I’m super fortunate, you know, like, I feel like, you know, I feel like, although I’m still got a lot of, like, lack of sensation, on my right side, especially on my lower it doesn’t, I’ve never really, nothing’s ever happened with my hand, which is like that goodness for me, like, you know, like, I, I use, I have a, I work with my hands a lot.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 58:51

    So I’ve been super fortunate, but my lower extremities, like it’s just been, you know, that’s not come back the way I thought it would, and then that can be tricky with running. Because then, you know, you’re kind of crossing over and cross over in the wrong kind of way and you’re gonna go down.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 59:14

    So, it’s, you know, it’s humbling, but, you know, all these things are great to work at and work on and focus. It’s, it’s given me incredible challenge, you know, at something, you know, that I didn’t expect, but, you know, like, the process is something that I’ve been, I have to say, I have enjoyed, you know, I’m a process oriented person, I believe in processes, you know, and this is kind of the ultimate in that, you know, to kind of see yourself go through, you know, all these different therapies and knowing Interesting in it, that you’re going to come out on the other end of better person,

    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:04

    you’ve got a lot of problem solving skills with your business, right, you’re, you can apply that to your recovery from this thing that you’ve gone through that you’ve experienced, you’ve also got a lot of understanding about how you tackle the business, for example, you know, sometimes a client says to you, we need this from you, and you’ve never done that before. And you agree, and you don’t know how you’re going to deliver.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:30

    And you don’t know what the problems are, you can never possibly imagine them all. And then you start down the process and a new trouble comes up or a new problem comes up. And it’s like, we’ve never dealt with this before, let’s scramble and find a solution and apply it and see if we get a result.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:46

    And this is exactly what you’re experiencing. Now. You’re going through this phase of, I know, it’s a new project that I’ve got. And I know I’m going to have some troubles, but I don’t know what they’re going to be. But when they come to them, If I focus more on the solution than the problem, I’ll get more solutions.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:06

    And that’s exactly what stroke recovery is. And part of that means that you’ve got to expand your, your you’ve got to become more intelligent, you’ve got to come more emotionally intelligent, you’ve got to become more problem solving, kind of brain intelligent not. I’m not saying your IQ has to go up like but you’ve got to apply your brain in a different way. Because it works differently now.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:35

    And you got to you got to grow, like intelligence from the other part of your body, which is your gut, listen to your gut for advice on inst on your what your instincts telling you about when to take action, how to overcome your fears, because that’s where they live, you know.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:54

    And you got to become more aware of how you’re getting in your own way. And you got to be super critical on those things. And then as a result, if you treat it like a if you treat your recovery, like a business deal, that this is the this is what you get out of it. If you do. If you overcome all these problems, this is the reward that you get for that deal.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:02:22

    Well, then, you can overcome your deficits, even though you’re going to be living with numbness in your leg. You can live with numbness in your leg and still experience a full life and you can live with deficits that are more debilitating than that and still have a full life.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:02:40

    You just have to get good at solving problems that you’ve never solved before. And I know some people do a lot tougher than you are. And that they might not see it that way. But there’s no other way to see it. Seeing it that way might be hard, but not seeing it that way you still had.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:02:58

    So choose your heart, which hard do you prefer? That’s kind of you know that. So I think you’re in a good position to really have a great next 12 months, even though there’s going to be ups and downs. There’s going to be frustration, celebration, there’ll be fears, there’ll be all sorts of things.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:19

    I think it’s still could be a great 12 months, and I don’t think you’d quite know, yet. You haven’t had enough time in this space to know yet. How good this can be in 10 years from now. It is for me, it’s 10 years for me since this all started. And this has never been this good. And I have never had this many issues in my life like physical issues, cognitive issues. I’ve never had this much drama, and it’s never been better. So I didn’t get it. Yeah. But that’s the truth.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 1:03:59

    Hey, that’s, that’s that sounds good to me. I hope I’m I hope I’m in that position. You know, 10 years on. So, yeah, but

    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:12

    no reason why. Why can’t be I think you have to have bravery as well to face your demons, bravery to overcome your emotional trauma from this situation, or the past that you’ve never dealt with, you know, bravery to tackle your fears about what the future might hold or what it might bring. Yeah.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:35

    And if you do that, you’ll get rewarded for that because you’ll grow as a human being you’ll over you’ll, and you’ll feel yourself becoming a giant, you know, amongst men and for the best reason possible, you know, which is that you just tackled your fears and you did not give a shit about the the you know what it was going to leave Behind the trail of disaster that it was going to leave behind, from a, from a personal growth perspective, and what you have to shed and let go of, you know, because identity is a massive thing.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:15

    And if your identity, Michael has always been, I’m an advertising guy, and that’s what I do. And that’s who I hang out with. And they’re the people that I know.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:25

    And that’s all we ever do is talk shop, and all that kind of stuff. And now that’s taken away from you, you got to rebuild your identity, and you’ve got to start broadening your, what identity, what your identity is, it has to include, I am a father who’s present, I am a husband, who’s grateful.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:44

    I am a person who jumps on a podcast and helps other people. By sharing my story, you know, you’ve got to grow what your identity is. And then that way, you feel better about how you had to write how you got to that point, like, why what was the event that led to that? It’s about post-traumatic growth, you know?

    The Thing That Most People Don’t Tackle In Recovery

    Michael Andrew Petersen 1:06:13

    Yeah, ya know, there’s a lot of truth in that. And that’s one of the, you know, I’m, I can, I can almost hear my wife nodding. And she hasn’t even heard your words yet. But she’s, she’s gonna identify. You know, she’s, she’s been the one that’s been really pushing me to, you know, to deal with the trauma.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 1:06:36

    And she said, it’s the one thing she said, it’s the one thing that, that they don’t really tackle in your recovery process. And she’s like, it’s, it’s, it’s unfortunate, she said, but I know, like, you’ve taken on everything else, she’s like, you know, and you’ve, you’ve done good with all the physical and you’re getting better with the cognitive, she said, but you’re not dealing with the emotional trauma, you know, she’s you, you went through a lot, and you, you’re not touching that.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 1:07:09

    And she’s right. But that’s, you know, that’s, you know, another hill to climb.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:07:17

    It is. And it’s inevitable for most people that does, the heel becomes visible at some point. And it’s the reason it’s inevitable is because initial recovery is physical, and the doctors throw that at you, and they want to make sure that you’re up. And there’s a lot of reasons why, why the physical recovery is important, of course, because if they get you on your feet, you know, you start to become independent, again, and all those things matter.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:07:44

    But the physical recovery, and I’m writing a chapter about this, right now, Chapter seven of my book, is because being physical, you know, releases endorphins, it helps with neurotrophins, you know, things that support brain health and neuronal function. It supports serotonin, it supports dopamine, you know, and there are all those chemicals that are necessary for you to get high levels of in your brain.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:08:26

    And exercise is one of those things that does it more than anything, and it doesn’t have to be physical, it can just be very mild, relaxing, calm exercise, you know. So I get it. And then from there, what exercise does it supports, decreasing anxiety, it supports decreasing depressive symptoms, it increases your mood, it helps to improve your sleep. And they can see that they can see that. So they, they can see your physical deficit.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:09:05

    So they push that, but they can’t see your emotional deficits. Yeah. And they can’t impact that, that you’ve got to lead the charge to the emotional recovery. Whether you go through coaching, whether you go through counseling, or a combination of both, whether you connect with a stroke survivor who guides you through that. Your journey.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:09:30

    That’s the path that you have to lead, and that’s what your wife wants for you. She wants you to go, I’m gonna lead this recovery because she knows she can’t do it. She can prod but at some point, you’re gonna say Stop nagging me.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 1:09:46

    Yeah, no, I did. She’s and she’s always right, Bill, like she’s, you know, the, and she was right about this. And it’s, you know, and it’s it’s important And, you know, but that’s, you know, like, you know, I want to be I want to be better for her, I want to be better for my girls. You know, like, there’s, there’s a lot left. And you know, it’s a must the most Luckily, I was given another chance.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:10:23

    Yeah, man, a lot of people don’t get it and what’s what’s good is that

    Bill Gasiamis 1:10:30

    you you know what dedication to a task for many, many, many, many years creates a create success. If you as well as your other tasks that you’re dedicated to

    Bill Gasiamis 1:10:48

    decide to dedicate some time to the task of you evolve, evolving and emerging from this in a positive way, you’ll succeed. And you’ll look back and you’ll go, man, I’ve done some amazing things in my life. And one of those includes my evolution from this experience that was seriously nearly took my life. Yeah. Yeah, that’s my hope.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:11:21

    You will, you’ll succeed, man 100%, I believe in you. I believe in you. And I believe in everybody who, who’s listening, who is going through what we’re going through, because if I’m able to do it, if I’m able to look back on my 10, on my last 10 years, and they were my hardest 10 years, and respond with I think that stroke was the best thing that ever happened to me. If I can do that bill from Preston, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.

    Michael’s Experience And How It Changed Him

    Michael Andrew Petersen 1:11:56

    Anyone can? Yeah. Well, it’s, you know, it’s, it’s not anything that I would have, I would have thought that I would go through. And, but I have a lot of respect. And I don’t know, if I would, you know, at this at this point, I don’t know if I would change it.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 1:12:21

    You know, it’s, it’s brought me to a place where I’m very thoughtful, and I’m thoughtful in a much different way. And I reconcile my feelings so much differently because of the experience that I’ve had. And, you know, I, I wouldn’t want to change it at this point. That’s perfect. It’s been tough.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:12:47

    Yeah, that’s profound. And, and I think a lot of people relate to that, and would agree with you that they wouldn’t want to change it. And I wouldn’t either. I would, I would love to say that I would rather have learned the lesson. Easier than what I did. But it’s just it wasn’t meant to be easier, because I didn’t learn it until I had to learn it.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 1:13:13

    Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, a lot of, I don’t know, I don’t know why I, I listened to a lot of podcasts bill. So like, there’s a number of people that I, that I listened to, and, you know, the one thing that told me never to do was read your own medical records. And I did that tonight. So I will, I’ll take that off the list.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 1:13:37

    And then, you know, the one thing that that I, I just, I don’t like to, you know, I just don’t like to think about I should, you should never look at the statistics for what you went through. And I did that as well. And that’s, that’s pretty humbling as well. So, you know, it’s, I should I shouldn’t have done that.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 1:14:07

    That’s but it, it makes you more grateful, for sure. To know that you’ve gone through something you know, and I used to when I was with all the follow ups and you’re no stranger, this but you, you go through this experience, and then you finally get home and then you spend the first month doing follow up visits all these doctors.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 1:14:36

    And the stroke had really done something to buy, you know, like, through the life saving techniques or whatever, all that fluid in my head and it screwed up my retinal nerve and that blew out my hearing. So I had to I had to get these fancy hearing aids now, so that I can hear but I went to seek this hearing specialist.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 1:15:02

    Because I was convinced, though I was convinced, like, I think it’s just like, I just need a real deep cleaning. And it just once they release all that gunk into my ear, then I’ll be able to hear again. And I was I was my wife was like, I think it’s a little bit more than that. But like, so I go to this hearings, this audiologist follow up.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 1:15:23

    And I catch the guy and he’s just, like, engrossed in something. And I was like, Alright, whatever, you know, he’s, he’s a professional, I’m gonna let him do his thing. And he looked up a couple times and looked at me. And he’s like, are you Mike Peterson? And I was like, yeah. He’s like, how did you get here?

    Michael Andrew Petersen 1:15:48

    And I said, I, I drove, he’s like, You drove a car to my office? And then he’s like, he’s like, are you in it? And you’re not in a wheelchair. Your wife’s not with? I said, No, I just came up in the escalator, whatever. He’s like, he’s like, I don’t want to embarrass you. He’s like, but I just read your chart. He’s like, You, your body went through four different things.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 1:16:17

    So he’s like, and three of them, people just simply don’t walk away from that a second. And the fourth is like, he’s like, I don’t, he’s like, I don’t even he’s like, I expected you to be wheeled in here. He’s like, I never expected that you would have driven yourself. And those, those are the things that I would get.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 1:16:39

    Like, after that, like, I left that appointment, and I got my car. And I was like, I was shot. I was like, I called my wife and I was like, a mess. And I just, I said, those things. Those are the hardest. Those are the hardest visits for me. Because it doesn’t, it doesn’t really hit home until you hear someone tell you from a medical standpoint, that that, that they don’t, they don’t know why I’m there. And so there’s got to be a reason, right? So I gotta find that reason now.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:17:14

    Beautiful. And on that note, that’s a beautiful way to end this podcast. And just before we end, let me just say, not only will you find that, you’re gonna make a massive difference on the planet to other people on your journey to discovering that, and then hopefully sharing that and letting people know what you discovered. I think that’s kind of what’s meant to come next. how that looks. I don’t know. And it doesn’t matter. But yeah, enjoy the enjoy the ride, man.

    Michael Andrew Petersen 1:17:44

    All right, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:17:48

    Thanks for joining us on today’s episode to learn more about my guests including links to their social media and other pages. And to download a full transcript of the entire interview. Please go to recoveryafterstroke.com/episodes. If you would like to purchase the course five foods to avoid after stroke, go to recovery after stroke.com/courses and get on board now.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:18:12

    If you would like to support this podcast, the best way to do that is to leave a five star review and a few words about what the show means to you on iTunes and Spotify. If you are watching on YouTube, please comment below the video. Like this episode and to get notifications of future episodes, subscribe to the show on the platform of your choice. If you are a stroke survivor with a story to share about your experience, come and join me on the show.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:18:39

    The interviews are not scripted, you do not have to plan for them. All you need to do to qualify is to be a stroke survivor, or care for somebody who is a stroke survivor or you are one of the fabulous people that help other stroke survivors. Go to recovery after stroke.com forward slash contact, fill out the form and as soon as I receive I receive it.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:19:01

    I will respond with more details on how you can choose a time that works for you and me to meet over zoom. Thank you again for being here. I really appreciate it and see you on the next episode.

    Intro 1:19:13

    Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals. The opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast are the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed all content on this website at any length blog, podcast or video material control.

    Intro 1:19:35

    This website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis, the content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice.

    Intro 1:19:53

    The information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances or health objectives do not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional.

    Intro 1:20:07

    Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional, your doctor or your rehabilitation program based on our content if you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition, please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional if you are experiencing a health emergency or think you might be, call 000 if in Australia or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance or go to the nearest hospital emergency department medical information changes constantly.

    Intro 1:20:34

    While we aim to provide current quality information and our content. We did not provide any guarantees and assume no legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, currency or completeness of the content.

    Intro 1:20:45

    If you choose to rely on any information within our content, you do so solely at your own risk. We are careful with links we provide however third party links from our website are followed at your own risk and we are not responsible for any information you find there.

    The post Heart Memory And Stroke – Michael A Petersen appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

    1 hr 21 min

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