Recovery After Stroke

By Recovery After StrokeEducation

Recovery After Stroke episodes

October 28, 2022 World Stroke Day 2022 – Dr. J Mocco MD, MS
World Stroke Day 2022. A great interview to share with your loved ones so we can help others get ahead of stroke and have better recovery outcomes.
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Highlights:
01:30 Introduction
08:38 Stroke Affects Our Thinking Ability
15:02 You Can Keep Getting Better
21:49 Seek Out Specialists
27:48 Dr. J Mocco’s Challenge
35:20 A Numbers Game
42:19 B.F.A.S.T
46:09 The Get Ahead of Stroke Campaign
52:26 Making Lives Better
Transcription:
Dr. J Mocco 0:00
And, but I want to highlight a positive thing that you just touched on that I think is worth broadcasting, which is people would say that after two years they tied their shoelaces, after three years they walked a few miles. So that’s important. With stroke, one of the amazing things is you can keep getting better, even two years and three years later.
Intro 0:27
This is the recovery after stroke podcast, with Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after stroke.
Bill Gasiamis 0:39
Hello, and welcome to episode 222 of the recovery after stroke podcast. To learn more about my guests including links to their social media and other pages and to download a full transcript of the entire interview. Please go to recoveryafterstroke.com/episodes.
Bill Gasiamis 0:55
If you would like to support this podcast, the best way to do it is to leave the show a five-star review and a few words about what the show means to you on iTunes, and Spotify. And if you’re watching on YouTube, comment below the video, like this episode and to get future notifications of new episodes as they become available, hit the notifications bell.
Bill Gasiamis 1:16
Now sharing the show with family and friends on social media will make it possible for people who may need this type of content to find it easier. And that may make a difference to somebody that is on the road to recovery after their own experience with stroke.
Introduction – Dr. J Mocco

Bill Gasiamis 1:30
Now as part of World Stroke Day on October 29. My guest today is special guest Dr. J Mocco MD a Cerebro Vascular and Endovascular neurosurgeon with clinical interest in stroke, brain aneurysms, subarachnoid hemorrhage, arteriovenous malformations, cavernous malformations, carotid artery stenosis, intracranial stenosis, and brain tumors.
Bill Gasiamis 1:53
Dr. Mocco has published more than 525 peer-reviewed publications, edited three textbooks on neurosurgical techniques, and runs numerous national and international clinical trials to improve the treatment of patients with cerebral vascular disease.
Bill Gasiamis 2:10
Dr. Mocco’s research interests focus on translational efforts to treat ischemic and hemorrhagic stroke. Now this is the kind of person that I’m eternally grateful for the person who decides that they’re going to do all that study put all that time and effort into helping people with conditions like mine.
Bill Gasiamis 2:28
Which ended up in me having three hemorrhages, then brain surgery and all of the recovery that came after that, that’s still going nearly 10 years beyond the first incident. So I hope you enjoy this episode. Now it’s on with the show. Dr. J Mocco, welcome to the podcast.
Dr. J Mocco 2:45
Thank you very much, very glad to be here.
Bill Gasiamis 2:47
I hope you like people saying fantastic things about you. Because from what I’ve read in your bio, you’re the kind of person who I get really excited to meet, and I’m really thankful that you guys exist, you’re gonna have to tell me a little bit about yourself, because I want to know, how is it possible that somebody wakes up one day and decides they’re going to spend their life they’re going to dedicate their entire life to helping people they haven’t even met yet.
Bill Gasiamis 3:17
And I’m one of those people because somebody did that for me, when I experienced a brain hemorrhage as a result of an AVM when I was only 37. And I didn’t even know that I needed people like you. How did you get to that point where you started down this path and became a neurosurgeon?
Dr. J Mocco 3:39
It depends on how many hours we have to discuss. But, I don’t think it’s the kind of thing that happens in one sort of, you know, cataclysmic moment on the road where light shines in front of you, it’s more of life leading you.
Dr. J Mocco 3:58
I had unfortunate circumstances, experience, you know, some tragedies and some challenges in my early life with family members and that was very inspiring and having to be good at science and math and those sorts of things. And so that sort of made sense. But I’ll tell you, when I went to med school, I didn’t have any idea what I didn’t know the difference between a pediatrician and a psychologist and a surgeon.
Dr. J Mocco 4:23
But as you start doing it, you start to realize the kind of life you want the kind of care you want to provide. So even though I didn’t know that I wanted to treat stroke. As I started going through medical school, I knew what I did want to do was to help people that were in distress where if I was good at doing what I could do, and I could commit my time to make a larger difference.
Dr. J Mocco 4:49
It would be a life and death event and really make a dramatic impact. And there isn’t a lot of medicine that’s specifically that acute in that way. And so I was drawn to the field, it wasn’t so much that I chose it, but that it fit what I was looking for in terms of making a difference in the world.
Dr. J Mocco 5:11
And I think I think all physicians get into their career to find that way that they feel their best. So I hope all physicians to find a place where their personality and their skill set can make the greatest difference. For me, this just happened to be the place where I could do it. And it happens to be a place where time matters, and were getting people to the right expertise matters.
Dr. J Mocco 5:38
And so you can be focused on becoming a good surgeon, that was a big part of my career. But then the next part is focusing on not just how good are you at doing something? But how do you help the larger community? How do we work on getting patients to the right place every time, as you may know, from your experience, getting in the right hands quickly, can be absolutely crucial.
Bill Gasiamis 6:08
Yeah, that’s definitely the most important thing as far as the layperson is concerned, because we don’t know that we need to know these things until it happens to us. And then we become guided by our instincts, which aren’t sometimes telling us that we need to be taking action, because what we’re doing is, then we’re letting our head getting in the way our thinking get in the way, which says, this can’t be happening to me, or I’m too young, or I don’t need to take any action about this.
Bill Gasiamis 6:47
And I’m one of those people, I ignored the symptoms of a brain hemorrhage for seven days before I did anything about it. And many people told me to go and get help and see somebody. And I ignored it, because I didn’t know any better. And I’m glad that once the wheels were in motion, and I was in the right place, which was a hospital in Melbourne in Australia.
Bill Gasiamis 7:10
Then from there, there was a lot of people that came around me to make things better for me. And thankfully, they took that decision-making part out of my hands because I was not in any shape. Nor did I have the Gosh, for lack of a better word, the intelligence that I needed to have around physical health.
Bill Gasiamis 7:38
So if there’s such a thing as emotional intelligence, and if there’s such a thing as IQ, I didn’t have physical intelligence, I didn’t understand that my body had dramatically given me feedback by going numb on the entire left side, I didn’t understand that it was communicating that you need to go and get some help. So I didn’t go for a long, long time.
Dr. J Mocco 8:01
Well, it’s really interesting you say that, because maybe I’ll make you feel a little bit better. Because first of all, that’s normal. In general, for human beings, right? It’s fundamental to our nature, that we don’t think about bad things happening to us. Otherwise, you’d be walking around afraid all the time.
Dr. J Mocco 8:18
So that that’s a natural human instinct, right? And everyone’s heard about this for heart attacks, right? If you feel chest pain, if you feel pressure, you gotta go in because people will say, oh, I’ll just leave it off, or I’ll ignore it. So we have that problem with stroke and brain hemorrhage as a stroke as well.
Stroke Affects Our Thinking Ability – Dr. J Mocco

Dr. J Mocco 8:38
We have that problem with stroke, but then and this might make you feel a little better. But when you have injury to your brain, it specifically affects your ability to really understand what’s going on. I once took care of a stroke doctor, a neurologist who specialized in doing emergency room call and taking care of patients with strokes.
Dr. J Mocco 9:00
Who was having a stroke, and couldn’t move half his body. But because of the stroke, he was not aware that he couldn’t move his body. So we asked him to lift up his arms, he lift up just one arm, right? That’s one of things we look for his arm weakness. And I’d say you realize that he’s like, no, everything’s fine.
Dr. J Mocco 9:19
Because the stroke, your brain is who you are your awareness of the world is all processed in your brain, all of the matrix. And so if there’s something going on in there, it actually limits your ability. So it wasn’t just you being a little stubborn and denying it. Your brain had a little bit to do with that too.
Bill Gasiamis 9:37
Good. It’s a bit of story to tell people that I was stubborn and denying it. But I do appreciate the fact that I’m having a stroke at the same time and it’s impacting my my thinking. It’s very common because almost everybody I interviewed tells me the same thing. Very few people that I’ve interviewed, about their stroke will say to me, I knew I was having a stroke. I went to the doctors immediately, and I did the best thing, most people don’t get that opportunity.
Dr. J Mocco 10:05
A reason why I emphasize that is for loved ones and family members, like you said, people took it out of your control, they took it out of your ability to continue to deny. And so I would say that to anyone listening, that’s a loved one. Nobody wants to tell their father or mother or brother or sister. Stop it, you’re going to the hospital right now. But actually, we have to feel empowered to do that, in those sorts of circumstances.
Bill Gasiamis 10:31
I completely agree with you. Because a little while after that happened to me, a friend of mine had a mini stroke. Again, she was in her late 30s. And her son who was about 16 at the time, of course pays attention to what mum tells him to do or not do so when his mum said, I’m fine, do not do anything, do not call the ambulance, I’m not going to go.
Bill Gasiamis 10:54
He paid attention to her, he did what she said his instinct was saying that something was wrong. But of course, he’d listen to his mom, he didn’t know what was exactly happening. And at some point, I think I got involved in the conversation because she was nearby my house, this friend of mine, and I said ignore what she’s telling you just get her the help that she needs. And they ended up taking her to the hospital. And it was a mini-stroke she was also 37 years old. I mean, it’s ridiculous.
Dr. J Mocco 11:23
You bring up a really important second point there, which is that’s the other tool of denial is people say, “Well, I’m young” or “I’m healthy”. That doesn’t matter, stroke strikes everybody. I have treated so many 20 and 30 and 40-year-olds, it is not uncommon. Certainly, as we get older, we suffer more healthcare problems. But it’s important for people to realize that just because they’re in their 30s, they still could be having a stroke. And unfortunately, I’ve even had personal friends that have experienced that.
Bill Gasiamis 12:02
Yeah, what did they say it’s one in four people will experience a stroke in their lifetime.
Dr. J Mocco 12:09
It’s shockingly common. And I challenge you to talk to any friend or person you know, obviously, for your case, it’s everyone you know, because of yourself, but I tell people talk to your friends, I would be dumbfounded if your life hasn’t been touched by stroke, if you are one of your loved ones, or one of your friends haven’t been significantly affected.
Dr. J Mocco 12:33
Because it is ubiquitous it’s extremely common. And on top of it, there’s an additional challenge in that it’s the leading cause of long-term disability. So it’s not only something that can be devastating, but it’s something that can leave people in a very dependent state. When you poll populations about what situation they don’t want to experience where they don’t want to be in the future. Stroke is the most feared because nobody wants to be left dependent.
Bill Gasiamis 13:06
It is and it does stay with you for life. It’s something that even though I’ve had brain surgery to remove the faulty blood vessel, and it’s no longer possible for it to bleed, I’m still left with a deficit on my left side, the numbness, the altered sensation, the proprioception issues, the balance issues, all those things that came as a result of the life-saving surgery now are with me forever, and they’re never gonna go away.
Bill Gasiamis 13:39
And that’s the hard part. It’s a hard thing to reconcile, especially for people who end up more physically unable than me, for example, people who end up in a wheelchair, or people who end up with hemiplegia. They can attest to the fact that not only does it change your life instantly, it then changes your identity, and then getting that back is often difficult and a hard road.
Bill Gasiamis 14:09
And I just posted on my Instagram, I just posted a question that my followers asked. And one of the questions that I posted was, what is one of the little wins that people have had recently on their journey to stroke recovery?
Bill Gasiamis 14:28
And some of the simple things that they’ll tell you is that after five years, they were able to tie their shoelaces, or after three years they were able to walk a few miles or some little things that most of us took for granted and thought insignificant at the time, have all of a sudden become really serious and amazing accomplishments for people who have been trying to get back there for months, for years, if not decades.
You Can Keep Getting Better
Dr. J Mocco 15:01
I think that is so true. You know, someone once told me, try to walk around for a day with not being able to use one arm, you don’t realize all that. You think about it for obvious things, but all the little things you do during the day, if you’re limited in that way, but I want to highlight a positive thing that you just touched on, that I think is worth sort of broadcasting, which is, people would say that after two years, they tied their shoelace, right, after three years, they walked a few miles.
Dr. J Mocco 15:37
So that’s important. With stroke, one of the amazing things is you can keep getting better, even two years and three years later. And so for any person listening, or anyone who’s been through that the recovery potential exists, and it exists for a long time.
Dr. J Mocco 15:57
So obviously, the most important thing is to not have it or to avoid it, or to fix it quickly enough that there’s no injury to the brain. But I always meet with my patients, at three months at six months, mainly want to make sure they’re getting the right therapy and rehab and such, but also to make sure they understand that there’s still lots of potential for recovery, even two years and three years later, to continue to improve.
Dr. J Mocco 16:22
A lot of times, you know, if you injure some part of your body, after a month or two, it’s still the way it is, that’s just the way it’s going to be, it doesn’t really change dramatically over the delay time period. But your brain has incredible plasticity.
Dr. J Mocco 16:41
And you can still affect improvement over a long period of time. So keeping that positive attitude, and keeping the tenacity of working at it and working to improve it, will allow someone who can’t tie their shoelaces at six months to be able to tie their shoelaces in two years. I hope that brings a positive message to people that they realize potentials there.
Bill Gasiamis 17:05
I think it does, because some of your colleagues, and I don’t want you to speak on behalf of them or comment on what your colleagues may be doing that’s not right, or that’s a little flawed in their thinking is some of your colleagues will say to people, that person is never going to walk again, I get people on my podcast, who I interviewed who will tell me often that that’s what the doctor said to them when they were in the ward.
Bill Gasiamis 17:37
And it’s crazy that someone would say that to a patient who’s just in the acute phase of stroke. And I feel like the reason is because they miss that opportunity to understand what you understand, because of the additional work that you’ve done to have your master’s in science, which is the research part of the work that you do.
Bill Gasiamis 18:01
Whereas some other doctors perhaps have gotten to that point where they’re treating people in hospitals, and don’t have that additional skill set of understanding research and data and numbers and then seeing long term impacts of stroke on people after a certain period of time, not just in the acute phase.
Bill Gasiamis 18:21
So I think that’s kind of what they’re missing. They’re missing that understanding of the long-term view. And perhaps they didn’t get to see a lot of stroke survivors many years, or the same ones many years after they first came across them. And therefore they don’t get the opportunity to go, wow, that person wasn’t able to do all those things when I first met them, and now they can do all these things.
Bill Gasiamis 18:44
And I think that they also don’t realize that there’s power in their words. And it could be for the case of power for evil rather than good. And I know that’s not their intention, and maybe they’re trying to decrease the expectation. So people don’t get disappointed, but stuff that you know, I hear that most stroke survivors would rather have some kind of hope at the beginning that there’ll be an improvement and then they can work towards getting there rather than having all hope crushed at the beginning.
Dr. J Mocco 19:27
Yeah, that’s a tough one. I do think that there’s a couple things going on there. I think number one, I think it’s really important to realize that there are a lot of doctors out there who are all trying to do their very best. But the reality is also expertise matters.
Dr. J Mocco 19:49
And a lot of times still stroke is cared for because of work force needs and allocation of resources and all the rest. Stroke is carried for by people who are not specialists, or in places where there aren’t specialists. And I do think that causes a real problem, because, as you said, there’s a selection bias. If you’re not a specialist, if you’re not someone who really lives and breathes it every day, and dives into that, it’s hard to know those things.
Dr. J Mocco 20:21
And so frankly, the fault here is with myself and with my colleagues who are specialists to make sure we get the word out there well enough to the broader medical community. Because you are right, unless you see these patients a year and two years and three years later, unless you’re working with them, it is hard to realize, I’ll tell you, one of the things I do is when I see a stroke patient a year later, two years later.
Dr. J Mocco 20:45
You know, I’ve had patients where there were people in the healthcare team who felt that patients should not receive for their care. And then two years later, they’re essentially normal. You know, they’ve got things like you said, but no one on the street would know. And, you know, what I do is I always ask those patients, and they’re almost always willing to are able to, I asked him, would you mind coming with me up to the ICU?
Dr. J Mocco 21:12
Would you mind talking to some of the other ICU doctors and the nurses and letting them see because they don’t remember, because when we see a sick stroke patient with a breathing tube, and all the wires and the connections, it’s hard to see and now this person comes in, and they’re quaffed and they’re dressed normal, and they look great.
Dr. J Mocco 21:31
And they say, oh I’m a Mr. And Mrs. Smith, that was in bed 12 for three months, two years ago, and then the light shine in their eyes, and they realize, so I do believe that the vast majority of physicians are in it to help people and do their very best.
Seek Out Specialists – Dr. J Mocco

Dr. J Mocco 21:49
And so it’s a call to arms for the physicians that are specialists who have put that extra time and gotten those extra degrees to get the word out to our colleagues, you know, along the crew. But on the flip side, I would encourage any listeners, seek out specialists seek out the people that live and breathe this.
Dr. J Mocco 22:13
I do think in the end, it matters you know, I used to say you go to a Ford guy to fix your Ford and the Chevy guy to fix your Chevy. You know, don’t go to a generalist go to the people that really know what they’re doing for that part of your body, that brain.
Bill Gasiamis 22:29
Couldn’t be more important look, I did sack, a few doctors in my time going through the early stages. And that was exactly because of that I just didn’t feel cared for properly. And that wasn’t part of the conversation. And I was the person they were talking about at the end of the bed.
Bill Gasiamis 22:47
And it’s kind of like, I need to be involved guys, you need to let me know what’s going on good, bad or indifferent, I need to know and they weren’t doing that. So I just packed my bags and we left we went elsewhere with a referral etc. we did it properly.
Bill Gasiamis 23:02
And then we sought out exactly the kind of person that I knew was going to talk to me the way that I needed to be spoken to. And, she was amazing, an amazing neurosurgeon, who’s a professor of neurosurgery now at Royal Melbourne Hospital in Melbourne where I’m from Dr. Kate Drummond absolutely amazing lady.
Bill Gasiamis 23:27
And she just told me straight down the line exactly the way that it was and the confidence that she gave me an her ability and her team’s ability to sort out this difficult-to-get-to AVM in the middle of my brain near my cerebellum, and about four centimeters in from the ear.
Bill Gasiamis 23:47
There was I felt like handing myself over to her was the smartest and best decision I’ve ever made in my life. And it turned out to be exactly that. So that’s why I’m eternally grateful for people like you because it’s life altering and life changing.
Bill Gasiamis 24:08
It’s giving us a second opportunity, it’s important to pump your feathers up a little bit every once in a while, I’ll let you know I’m sure people do. But I think it’s still important to say that. And I’ll tell you why. Because how many years does it take to become a doctor, a medical doctor?
Dr. J Mocco 24:26
It depends on the person, here in the United States that process was eight years.
Bill Gasiamis 24:31
Okay, and then you did your master’s in science. How long did that take?
Dr. J Mocco 24:35
Well, I did a neuro (inaudible) which was seven years. And during that time, I did a master’s in science. And then I also did a fellowship to be a true specialist in stroke, which was another two years. So when you add that all up, I don’t really want to do the math. It’ll get me depressed, but I wouldn’t trade it for the world. It’s an amazing job.
Bill Gasiamis 24:57
I get it right so this is the thing people need to appreciate the people on the other side of the screen listening to this or stroke survivors, they do appreciate it. I just don’t think they realize how much and in that time, you’re hard on yourself, because you say, now I’ve got to come up with a time to tell everybody about all the things they should know. And here you are, it looks like you’re in your scrubs. You’re in the room in the hospital, I imagine. And you’ve jumped on Zoom, and we’re going to do this conversation. We’re here, because of world stroke day on the 29th.
Intro 25:27
If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. Like, how long will it take to recover? Will I actually recover? What things should I avoid in case I make matters worse?
Intro 25:44
Doctors will explain things. But obviously, you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask. If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you.
Intro 26:07
It’s called seven questions to ask your doctor about your stroke. These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition, they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery, head to the website now, recoveryafterstroke.com and download the guide. It’s free.
Bill Gasiamis 26:30
Of the this month. And as a result of that I couldn’t be more excited to have a podcast that I started in 2015 has 220 or so episodes now. And now I’m having to raise awareness in that space where I felt awareness wasn’t available, and there wasn’t enough space for it.
Bill Gasiamis 26:53
And there wasn’t enough for stroke survivors to sort of learn from somewhere where we could learn from each other about stroke. And that’s why the podcast was born it was born so that we can encourage each other. And we can find a way to get beyond all of the troubles that we are facing because of stroke.
Bill Gasiamis 27:12
And also to bring experts like you on so that I can offer hope and give people that long-term view and say, Hey, I know it’s tough now, but it’s gonna get better. And even though it’s really, really tough, and it’s the hardest thing you’ve ever done. There’s light at the end of the tunnel.
Dr. J Mocco 27:28
Well, I was just gonna say I agree, I think that’s an incredibly important message, that there’s light at the end of the tunnel for those patients that have been through it. But I want to throw out a challenge to your listeners also, because something that you said a second ago, really resonated with me.
Dr. J Mocco’s Challenge
Dr. J Mocco 27:48
And that because of the kind of stroke you had, in one small way you were fortunate because you had the ability to search out and find the right doctor. There are kinds of strokes, particularly what’s called ischemic stroke, you have what’s called a hemorrhagic stroke.
Dr. J Mocco 28:07
They’re kinds of strokes, where people don’t have that ability, they’re just brought to a place, they don’t have the ability to check and search. And so there’s something that your body of listeners can do and our community more broadly can do is to engage with our governmental bodies, our emergency medical systems, our legislators, whatever the way it works in your area.
Dr. J Mocco 28:35
To make sure that those patients that don’t have the ability to make a choice that don’t have the time to find out that our government that our society has figured out to ensure that those patients get taken to the right places, right, because that’s important.
Dr. J Mocco 28:53
Right now, the biggest predictor of whether someone who has one of those bad strokes is going to have a good outcome or a bad outcome is where they get taken that very first time that they get taken to a place that can treat them, where they get taken into a random emergency room that says, Oh, we can do stroke.
Dr. J Mocco 29:10
But they haven’t demonstrated that they have all of the correct tools to take care of it. And so I would put that challenge out there because something that you said really resonated to me on that the ability to choose or not choose. And for those that can’t we need to work within our communities to make that happen.
Bill Gasiamis 29:27
Yeah, I couldn’t agree more specific stroke hospitals in Melbourne exist. We have, I think about four or five of them where if there is some kind of a diagnosis that’s made, whether it’s over the phone, if you’re in our 000 in Australia is the emergency number in the United States, it’s 911.
Bill Gasiamis 29:46
So if we ring 000, and we say, well, I’m suspecting that this person is having a stroke, they’ll send out a stroke ambulance, and then they’ll get that person to a stroke hospital and that’s that part. That’s the part that we can do. We can know the signs of stroke, which we’ll talk about.
Bill Gasiamis 30:03
And then once we know the signs of stroke, we can specifically say, to our emergency services, I think this person is having a stroke, and therefore, they will then make the correct decision to get that person A the right ambulance and B to the right location.
Dr. J Mocco 30:18
You mentioned something else that’s really important about calling the triple zero or the 911, or the emergency services. Because the other thing people say, Well, I don’t want to take an ambulance drive me to the hospital, or I’m going to drive myself. And they may even say, well, I can get there faster in my car.
Dr. J Mocco 30:34
But I want everyone to know, while that may or may not be true, probably isn’t. But let’s say it even is, what you don’t realize is if the ambulance is taking you, they’re calling the hospital ahead. So they’re getting the hospital ready to receive you, they’re getting the CAT scan, ready to scan you.
Dr. J Mocco 30:51
And so when you get to the hospital, your process to getting treated for your stroke will be so much faster. If you’ve called 911, or 000, rather than trying to just drive yourself in and show up and say, Hey, I think I’m having a stroke. So that’s important, you touched on it. And it’s a great point to emphasize,
Bill Gasiamis 31:13
It’s very important because not only that the ambulance is also equipped to support you stabilize you while you are in their care. So even if you get there quicker, you’re not driving on your own, you’re not being stabilized supported, you can have an accident, you can have a collision, you can injure yourself or somebody else seriously.
Bill Gasiamis 31:32
And we don’t want to be doing that. And I say that because I’m about to admit that I drove myself to the hospital the second time, I had a brain hemorrhage. And I did exactly the opposite to what you just said. And then when I got there, I went to emergency I said, I think I’m having a stroke, you guys need to get me into the CT scanner. And they looked at me and said, what kind of drugs are you on? They didn’t actually say that. But they were thinking it.
Dr. J Mocco 31:57
Yeah, you could see it in their eyes.
Bill Gasiamis 31:59
Yeah, right. And I’m like guys, there’s no time you need to get me in, you need to get me in I’m having a stroke. And they’re saying to me, give us your details. Tell us who you are, what’s happening, you know, we can’t just take you in, you gotta give us some information. I gave them my name. It was the Royal Melbourne Hospital that I driven myself to.
Bill Gasiamis 32:17
And then they said, Okay, now we have your patient records. And sure enough, they put me in a wheelchair, they gave me the red carpet treatment, and I was straight in and I was in CT scan. And of course, it revealed that I was having a bleed on the brain.
Bill Gasiamis 32:30
And this time instead of this, you know how normally in a CT room or in a radiography area, there’s a couple of people operating the machines and checking that everything’s going correctly from the back of the window. This time there was a sea of people in the back of the Radiography room.
Bill Gasiamis 32:48
And I’m sure they wanted to see who this crazy guy was who walked in saying that he’s having a stroke. So it was the wrong thing to do. But again, it was the decision that I made under duress of a blood clot in my head and a bleeding brain.
Dr. J Mocco 33:07
But it’s better than saying I’m gonna go take a nap and sleep it off. So of all the choices you did, okay, but I would encourage people it seems like more inconvenience, but it’s actually pretty important because the ambulance would have already provided them that information as they were bringing you in. And that would have made it more efficient.
Bill Gasiamis 33:28
Yeah, it’s the safest route to hospital that’s for sure. So what else can we do to improve patient outcomes? I know that doctors are doing a lot. So what we can do, we’ve spoken about actually, briefly, we’ve said that we can not pay attention to stroke survivors or people who we suspected unwell from a stroke.
Bill Gasiamis 33:48
When they tell us that they want to go to hospital, we said that already. We said that they can call the ambulance better off calling an ambulance before they decide to drive, make sure we improve outcomes for the people that are outside of the car, and also for the people that are inside the car.
Bill Gasiamis 34:04
And now we want to get them to hospital as soon as possible. Because in the case of an ischemic stroke, there’s a lot that can be done to open up the blood flow to that blood vessel again. So tell me a little bit about some of the stuff that happens there.
Dr. J Mocco 34:19
That’s right, well in the in the most common type of stroke, which is the ischemic stroke, a clot and instead of bleeding into the brain, it goes up to the brain and blocks an artery. It’s sort of like getting a pipe clogged. And when that happens, blood flow can’t get to the brain tissue and it slowly starts to die.
Dr. J Mocco 34:40
It sort of like being unable to breathe, being underwater it’s getting starved of oxygen. But we know now unequivocally what’s been proven definitively and a bunch of very important big randomized trials that came out seven years ago, little over almost eight years ago now.
Dr. J Mocco 34:58
That showed that if you get in here and you have one of those blockages, and it’s giving you a significant stroke, and we go up there and we take the clot out that’s causing the problem, and we restore the blood flow, essentially function like a really fancy plumber, and we take that clot out and restore the flow, that patients do much, much better.
A Numbers Game – Dr. J Mocco
Dr. J Mocco 35:20
And this is important, it’s really important to hammer this one. Because there’s a lot of things we do in medicine, that are helpful, that are good. But you’re playing a numbers game, it’s odds, right? You know, to do a lot of regular medical therapies, protective therapies, you have to treat 50 people, 40 people in order to help one person that’s typical, it’s okay, right, but you’re improving your chances of doing well.
Dr. J Mocco 35:46
And some of the strongest, so if you think you’re having a heart attack, and you go in, and they go do an intervention to check out your heart, the numbers around between one in 13, and one in 16 people that you do that procedure on that you actually definitively helped for sure.
Dr. J Mocco 36:04
For this kind of stroke, if you’re having a major stroke with a blockage, the number of people you need to do the procedure on in order to help someone be independent, is two. Every two people you treat, one of them is going to be saved from disability and death that they would have otherwise had.
Dr. J Mocco 36:24
Think about that. I mean, it’s literally, it’s literally without question, among the most positive, most powerful, if not the most powerful treatment we have for sort of any disease that exists. But here’s what’s a killer. Even though we have this, among the most powerful treatments that exist in all of medicine, right now, only about 10% of people ever even get a shot at it.
Dr. J Mocco 36:48
How devastating is that? Something like 85% to 90% of people never even get a shot at the treatment. Because they take too long, it’s not their fault, but it takes too long, the process takes too long to go to the wrong hospital, they sleep it off, that you know, different that’s the other reason by the way.
Dr. J Mocco 37:10
The other reason for an ambulance, the ambulance knows to take you to the right place, you just get in the car and you drive to wherever your local places, they may or may not have that ability to treat it. So for all these reasons, if we think a stroke is happening, time matters.
Dr. J Mocco 37:26
So we got to get you there as quick as possible to treat you now. That doesn’t mean say oh this has been going on for 10 hours, I guess there’s nothing to do. The truth is we’ve shown that it’s helpful, even 24 hours later, which really means it’s helpful even 48 or so we just only studied out 24 so far.
Dr. J Mocco 37:46
Born is if it’s happening, you get there, because as soon as we can provide the help, we can just last night, nine o’clock 9:30 last night, I treated a young woman, very young actually see what she’d been like 38 39 years old, with one of these strokes.
Dr. J Mocco 38:05
And she had been having the symptoms for 21 hours. Unfortunately, she was actually at a different hospital, where it just wasn’t recognized or picked up. And then when they did, she came over right away. So these are the challenges. And we’ve got to get that number from 10% to hopefully 100% or pretty darn close.
Dr. J Mocco 38:26
That’s why we do things like this. And thank goodness for you. And people like you that are getting the word out talking with people communicating, it’s incredibly important that we address these things very, very quickly, about 80% of all strokes are these kinds of stroke or ischemic strokes.
Dr. J Mocco 38:43
About half of them are the client where we can go up and take the blood clot out. So in the United States that’s close to half a million people, at least a year that we couldn’t be helping, and we’re instead we’re helping about 50,000 so we got to we got to improve on that.
Bill Gasiamis 39:01
Yeah, numbers have to get better. And when you’re helping those 50,000 and hopefully it becomes 500,000 hopefully what that means is that that’s 500,000 People getting back to being productive, that’s 500,000 people being part of the community again, that’s 500,000 People that are not dependent on you know, social services or services from other areas.
Bill Gasiamis 39:28
That’s, you know, 500,000 people that have got back to their families and can be supporting them in being a dad, a mom, a brother, a sister, whatever. That’s so many people that can just go back to being the most active member of their community as they possibly can and their family as they possibly can. And the ripple effects are just immeasurable.
Dr. J Mocco 39:51
The ripple effects are huge. So it’s not just 500,000 people that are saved from disability, 500,000 caregivers and in fact, it’s usually about two caregivers per patient that’s disabled, right? So it’s a million people their lives have been changed as well to have to care for their loved ones or you know, provide support for their community or the person they’re affiliated with.
Dr. J Mocco 40:16
So it’s a lot, it’s a devastating disease. And it’s a fight, it’s a battle for us to get the word out there to communicate with people so that they reach out and they engage with their communities, and then their civic unit to get legislation or EMS protocols or, you know, guidance, departments of health, whatever, to get patients, to the hospitals that have the expertise as soon as possible. And that’s what we just have to keep working at, we just have to keep putting the time in.
Bill Gasiamis 40:54
We’re going to ask some more of our listeners and people watching on YouTube, what we’re going to ask him and this time I am, is I’m going to say that if every person who listened to this podcast episode, shares it on their Facebook, their social media, wherever they can, if they shared it, to the people that love them, just to the people in their community, what that will do is A it will help them raise awareness about the condition that they’re experiencing, that they’re going through.
Bill Gasiamis 41:23
And also, it’ll help raise awareness about prevention. And that help create a conversation around how other people who are out there who have not experienced a stroke, how they can become aware of strokes, so that in case one of their relatives, one of their loved ones, one of their work colleagues, experiences, the symptoms that we’re going to talk about now, or the signs of stroke.
Bill Gasiamis 41:46
That perhaps what they can do is know how to respond quicker. And as a result, support that person getting the help that we want them to get as quickly as possible, so that they can be eligible for thrombectomy, so they can be eligible for all the interventions that are going to improve outcomes. So the FAST acronym is used worldwide. And we talked about F standing for face.
B.F.A.S.T
Dr. J Mocco 42:19
I’m gonna jump in there, I’m gonna give you a little hot update. We’re trying to push B.E.F.A.S.T.
Bill Gasiamis 42:27
Okay, let’s do it.
Dr. J Mocco 42:29
All right, we’re gonna shake everything up here. Okay? Because particularly it’s involving the back part of the brain, like the cerebellum, right, one of the things you can get as balance problems, or vision problems. And so we’re going to push to your audience, hopefully, so that they’re aware so they can help their loved ones so they can tell their loved ones.
Dr. J Mocco 42:53
No, you have a B.E.F.A.S.T, we’re calling 911, we’re calling 000 is B for balance. So the person has significant balance problems that can be a sign they’re having stroke, E for blurry eyesight or loss of vision, right. And that’s a TIA as well, by the way for someone who lose vision in one eye. I just did a surgery on Sunday morning, for a patient who had that problem, right.
Dr. J Mocco 43:20
And then we go to the F.A.S.T face, one of part of your face drooping your face being asymmetric arm weakness, if they try to lift up their arms, they can’t lift one of their arms is hanging down, they may not even recognize that they’re having that problem.
Dr. J Mocco 43:34
But it’ll be immediately apparent or speech, difficulty, slurred speech, or a lot of times people will have trouble just getting words out or understanding. Or they’ll say words that don’t make sense. You know, salad, bag, door, instead of, you know, I think I’m having a stroke, the connections get messed up. And then we lock it down with time T, for B.F.A.S.T time to call emergency services call 000, call 911. We’re always evolving, that’s our new, hot mnemonic to get out there.
Bill Gasiamis 44:11
I have to say I’ve seen that a lot in international discussions about stroke, but haven’t seen it much in Australia B.E.F.A.S.T. I’m aware of it. But the Stroke Foundation in Australia still does the F.A.S.T acronym. So maybe they need to look at that at some stage. I’d say they’re already discussing that and looking at how they can roll out B.E.F.A.S.T and change the conversation.
Bill Gasiamis 44:35
But I do like that because my stroke wasn’t F.A.S.T. I didn’t have any issues with my face that were visible. I didn’t have arm issues, I didn’t have any speech issues, the time thing was out the window. So everything I did wasn’t F.A.S.T and a lot of people who I do speak to and have asked on my Instagram, haven’t had a F.A.S.T stroke.
Bill Gasiamis 44:59
So some of them do then decrease that number when we do add balance, and eyes because a lot of them have had eye issues, and often some of them fell over because they had balance issues. So I do like that. Now let’s talk about the Get Ahead of Stroke campaign.
Bill Gasiamis 45:23
I know we’ve touched on a lot of things about how we can improve outcomes for people how we can get ahead of stroke, from the perspective of the conversation between perhaps stroke survivors in my case, and the community around me, and then all the other shock survivors listening in the community around them, if we could kind of get them to do that.
Bill Gasiamis 45:47
They will get ahead of stroking that they will make other people aware of something they weren’t aware of before, even if it’s just in the back of their minds. So if they recognize something in the future, they might go, I wonder if that’s stroke? I’ve heard about that somewhere. Tell me what good ahead of stroke is, it sounds like it’s a campaign that you guys are running.
The Get Ahead of Stroke Campaign

Dr. J Mocco 46:09
Exactly right. So the Get Ahead of Stroke campaign is something that’s primarily organized by the SNIS society neurointerventional surgery, but also a number of collaborative and associated organizations that are really trying to improve stroke care.
Dr. J Mocco 46:28
And what we often say is systems of care the way people get to treatment, and that comes by two ways, raising public awareness. Getting out there communicating please, to your listeners, like you said, share it on Facebook, share it on Twitter, get the word out there, because the more people are empowered, the more people that know, if they have the symptoms, they have to get treated, we’re gonna save lives.
Dr. J Mocco 46:51
And then also policy, how can we engage with those who drive policy, our leaders, our government officials, our communities, even our hospitals as entities to make them more aware? How do we save more lives? How do we improve the outcomes for stroke patients?
Dr. J Mocco 47:09
As we get ahead of stroke it’s been tremendously successful. We’ve shifted policy broadly across the United States, we’ve engaged internationally. But the fight is far from over, you know, there’s a lot to be done, and a lot of difference to still be made. But even if one person hears this, and they respond, I think that’s awfully important.
Dr. J Mocco 47:34
And I’ll tell you one last thing, just as we’re talking about the symptoms, because you’re right, I love the real world experiences that you have right hearing from your followers or your population per se. You know, I didn’t have those F.A.S.T symptoms, and I think adding balance and eyes helps a lot. But along your lines, I want to add one more, which is you know, if someone has a significant headache, new, sudden onset, something different than they’ve had before.
Dr. J Mocco 48:07
Okay, you know, there are people who never had headaches or people that have headaches, I get headaches, not infrequently. Take a little Tylenol, it’s fine. This is different. If you have a different thing and new, severe headache of some sort.
Dr. J Mocco 48:20
You should get that checked out. All right, that’s another kind of hemorrhagic stroke. From a vascular malformation, a weakness in a blood vessel, an aneurysm and AVM, something like that. It’s certainly worth evaluating. So just throw that one in there be fast plus headache.
Bill Gasiamis 48:38
If I do think about it, the first sign that nobody was able to confirm for me anyway, my first experience where I there was definitely something wrong with me, when I ignored it at the beginning, was in February 2012. In about September of 2010, I had one of those most ridiculous, crazy, unbelievably bad headaches, and it lasted for about three days.
Bill Gasiamis 49:06
And I did actually feel that bad that I took myself to hospital. And they did run every test that you can possibly imagine including a lumbar puncture. They were suspecting a bleed on the brain. But they couldn’t find any sign of it. And they didn’t run MRI, they only did a CT scan and didn’t pick up the arteriovenous malformation in my head.
Bill Gasiamis 49:32
And I believe that that was the first sign of my brain hemorrhage that was going to come. But of course when we’re talking about that experience, nobody can link it and it’s fair enough and I don’t expect them to link it but I was so unwell that I couldn’t go to see the team that I loved in the football in Australian football in the final game of the season to win the championship, you I was that unwell.
Bill Gasiamis 50:04
Where those championship games come around once in a lifetime, maybe if you’ve got a great team, they might come around three or four times in a lifetime. So by the time that Saturday afternoon had come up, I was six or seven days beyond the first incidence of that massive headache that onset, which I couldn’t describe that had never been like that before.
Bill Gasiamis 50:29
And I was still feeling unwell five or six days later, even though I’d been to the hospital, and visited everybody that I could to get to the bottom of it, it settled down, I am assuming I’ve concluded that perhaps the AVM was playing up. And it was just kind of causing some issues and letting me know that it was there in some way.
Bill Gasiamis 50:51
And then it’s settled down, and things got better as I rested. Because I was at the football the following weekend, again, to cheer my team on to that following game. And I was screaming and yelling, and being a crazy person, like sports fanatics are.
Bill Gasiamis 51:07
And I think that triggered it to play up. So that’s my diagnosis. I don’t expect anyone to agree with it. But it was a massive headache. And yes, we can add that to the B.F.A.S.T message. But we can’t talk about it as something that people may experience that has often led to a diagnosis of stroke of some kind.
Dr. J Mocco 51:31
I completely agree. I think it’s difficult to balance all those things. But when you’re having, you know, one of those symptoms, particularly if it’s something that’s new, but something you’ve never had before, it’s important, it’s important to get evaluated, it’s important to do it in a timely fashion, it’s important to go to a place where there’s expertise. And hopefully, you come out on the other side, okay. I will say your doctor certainly did a great job, you seem really fantastic.
Bill Gasiamis 52:04
They are, I’m eternally grateful, and I think I need to have these conversations with people like you, with all my guests so far. Because what I feel like is that I have been given a second lease on life so that I can make a difference in the world society, and I don’t know, in the community.
Making Lives Better
Bill Gasiamis 52:26
And, this is a really easy way for me to do it. Because technology makes it so and because I’m well enough and have the capacity to, I think that I need to make the most of that ability while I still have it. And while I’m young enough to have the energy to do all of that stuff, because from here, and if I decide that I’m not doing it anymore, in a few years time or multiple years, hopefully somebody else will pick up the baton.
Bill Gasiamis 52:56
And I’ll run with it and continue these conversations because, there was nothing like this for me 10 years ago, I can’t imagine what it was like for people 20 years ago. And since the technology exists, and since there’s this ability for us to reach so many people so easily from around the world, I think that we must make use of this technology. We must it’s our duty to make use of this technology, and make life better and easier for people coming through stroke.
Bill Gasiamis 53:30
Because there’s going to be a heck of a lot of them, there’s going to be a heck of a lot of them coming through it in the future. And they kind of need resources and I don’t want their caregivers, their loved ones, their family members to be in a position that I was in and their position that my wife and kids were in and that my mum and dad were in. And all my extended family when they didn’t know J they didn’t know what it meant for this guy who at 37 is in hospital and now has an uncertain future, they didn’t know.
Dr. J Mocco 54:00
That’s exactly right. Unfortunately, I see it every day. And our populations are aging and these are going to be increasingly difficult challenges that we have to address. And it’s absolutely important to get the word out there I love the way you said it.
Dr. J Mocco 54:15
You know you said it with passion and there is an obligation right I mean on some level it’s my job on some level it’s your passion what you’ve experienced, but I would give out there to the whole community that hears this it’s listening. Let’s get the word out there let’s get B.F.A.S.T out there let’s spread the word about this podcast.
Dr. J Mocco 54:34
Even just that even just you know if you have B.F.A.S.T you’re worried it’s a stroke, call 911 get to the hospital you know that even by itself sometimes the little things you could change a person’s life forever. Save their life change their and their loved one’s life forever by taking a little bit of time to forward this or communicate it and put the word out there.
Dr. J Mocco 55:01
I’d highly recommend that anyone who wants you can just Google Get Ahead Of Stroke or go to getaheadofstroke.org. There’s all kinds of little bits of information and news there. You can throw that out there, send the link, say, hey, learn about stroke, take five minutes, check this webpage out anything.
Dr. J Mocco 55:18
Because all of it adds up, right? It’s a grassroots thing and momentum has to build. So that becomes part of our general knowledge as a society. And, I really have tremendous gratitude to you for everything you’re doing along these lines. I’m very appreciative.
Bill Gasiamis 55:38
My pleasure. On that note, I will ensure that getaheadofstroke.org is added to the shownotes people who want to find the link, get a transcript of this episode can go to recoveryafterstroke.com/episodes. And they will be able to see that information there. It’ll be on the youtube description as well. Dr. J. Mocco, thank you so much for being on the podcast and taking an hour of your time out of your day to be on the show.
Dr. J Mocco 56:05
It’s been a real pleasure, and fingers crossed. We changed some lives today.
Bill Gasiamis 56:11
I think we will
Dr. J Mocco 56:11
I think so. Take care.
Bill Gasiamis 56:13
Thanks for joining us on today’s episode. If you’re a stroke survivor with a story to share about your experience? Come and join me on the show. The interviews are not scripted, you do not have to plan for them. All you need to do to qualify is be a stroke survivor or care for somebody who is a stroke survivor.
Bill Gasiamis 56:29
Or you are one of the fabulous people that help other people who have had a stroke go to recoveryafterstroke.com/contact fill out the form and as soon as I receive your request I’ll respond with more details on how you can choose a time that works for you and me to meet over Zoom. Thanks again for being here and listening. I really appreciate you and see you on the next episode.
Intro 56:48
Importantly, we present many podcast designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast are the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed.
Intro 57:05
All content on this website at any length blog, podcast or video material controlled this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill gaseous the content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice.
Intro 57:28
The information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances or health objectives. Do not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose treat, cure or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional.
Intro 57:43
Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional your doctor or your rehabilitation program based on our content if you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition, please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional.
Intro 57:57
If you are experiencing a health emergency or think you might be, call 000 if in Australia or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance or go to the nearest hospital emergency department. Medical information changes constantly. While we aim to provide current quality information in our content, we do not provide any guarantees and assume no legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, currency or completeness of the content.
Intro 58:20
If you choose to rely on any information within our content you do so solely at your own risk. We are careful with links we provide however third-party links from our website are followed at your own risk and we are not responsible for any information you find there.
The post World Stroke Day 2022 – Dr. J Mocco MD, MS appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.
1 hr
October 24, 2022 3 Tips to Heal Your Brain After Stroke – Dr. Nicholas Schmidlkofer
Dr. Nicholas Schmidlkofer is a licensed chiropractor and a Functional Neurology practitioner who supports people to heal their brains from many conditions including stroke.
Neurologic Wellness Institute
Instagram
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Nobody told me what I could actually do to support my brain after the stroke, so I worked it out and put it into four modules: How To Improve Your Brain Health After Stroke.
Highlights:
01:16 Introduction – Dr. Nicholas Schmidlkofer
04:48 Functional Neurology
12:52 What Is Brain Inflammation?
17:31 The Autonomic Nervous System
22:41 Tip #1 Proper Breathing
36:15 The Blood-brain Barrier
44:04 2. Tip #2 Getting Enough Sleep
52:40 Alcohol And Cannabis
1:03:38 Tip #3 The Carnivore Diet
1:17:06 Meat Over Vegetables
Transcription:
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 0:00
Any change to a diet from like the standard American diet or from processed food is a good change, getting rid of processed sugar, processed carbs, and processed oils.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 0:12
Which is mostly in processed foods and just sticking to meat, fruits and vegetables. I mean, if you can do that in life, like you’re gonna be way better off than 80% to 90% of the people out there.
Intro 0:28
This is the recovery after stroke podcast. With Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after stroke.
Bill Gasiamis 0:41
Hello, and welcome to episode 221 of the recovery after stroke podcast. To learn more about my guests, including links to their social media, and other pages and to download a full transcript of the entire interview. Please go to recoveryafterstroke.com/episodes.
Bill Gasiamis 0:57
If you’d like to support this podcast, the best way to do it is leave a five-star review and a few words about what the show means to you on iTunes and Spotify. If you’re watching on YouTube, comment below the video like this episode and hit the subscribe button and to get notifications of future episodes hit the notifications bell.
Introduction – Dr. Nicholas Schmidlkofer

Bill Gasiamis 1:16
Sharing the show with family and friends on social media will make it possible for people who may need this type of content to find it easier. And that may make a massive difference to someone that is on the road to recovery after their own experience with stroke.
Bill Gasiamis 1:29
My guest today is Dr. Nicholas Schmidlkofer, who is a licensed chiropractor and a functional neurology practitioner who supports people to overcome neurological conditions caused by concussions as well as dysautonomia, ADHD, dizziness, Parkinson’s disease, and headaches just to mention a few.
Bill Gasiamis 1:49
This was a detailed episode and requires multiple listens to grasp some of the concepts. And it will also help if you have an open mind as some of the topics we discussed are a little bit counterintuitive. Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer welcome to the podcast.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 2:04
Thanks, Bill. Happy to be here.
Bill Gasiamis 2:06
Happy to have you here. Man. Thank you so much for agreeing to be on the show. One of the reasons why I asked you to be on the show is because you’re a doctor, you’re young-ish, you’re probably speaking the language that people need to hear from doctors in.
Bill Gasiamis 2:25
And that is a rare thing, especially when it’s very difficult to have conversations with doctors about things that are serious, and that are explained in a way which are easy for patients, especially stroke recovery patients to understand in that acute phase when they’re doing really it hard. So before we get into the podcast, proper Tamia, a little bit about you and what you do for a living.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 2:58
Yeah, so I’m a Doctor of Chiropractic by trade. So my degree was in chiropractic. And then after that, I got a diplomate by the American chiropractic neurology board. So basically, it’s a 300 hour program where we do 300 hour’s worth of coursework.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 3:21
And then we do a big test and practical afterwards. And that just basically gives me more knowledge on the brain, the nervous system, a little bit of nutrition, and metabolic and everything that has to do with our brain and body. And so the last four years I’ve been practicing in Chicago, at the neurologic wellness Institute.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 3:44
And what we do is we treat predominantly brain injury cases. So mostly that’s concussion or like severe traumatic brain injury, mild traumatic brain injury, either one of those, but we do also get a lot of stroke patients or I should say post-stroke patients.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 4:04
And then we get a lot of variety of other things. So those others would be anything from dysautonomia, or POTS, which is Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome. We see patients with neurodegeneration, Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, we see patients with dizziness or vertigo.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 4:23
And then of course, all those patients I talked with before like concussions or post-stroke patients can have dizziness, can have vertigo, can have dysautonomia, they get all those things they can have headaches and migraines. So that’s one thing that’s cool with the brain is there are different areas in the brain and they can all cause similar mythology so you kinda have to piece out where is the issue.
Heal Your Brain With Functional Neurology

Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 4:48
So that’s mostly what we treat here we have three clinics and obviously, I don’t want to really advertise or anything I really just want to be really clear like, we have three clinics, and we have a lot of people doing great things in our field, not only in our clinics, but around the US, in Australia, in Europe, we have a lot of people that want to do things with functional neurology.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 5:17
And functional neurology is really just looking at the brain in a way that is based on function. So we have multiple areas in the brain, they all talk to each other in different ways. And so we can look at an individual, we can look at their eye movements, we can look at their facial tone, we can look at their posture, we can look at how they move an arm or leg and kind of pinpoint areas in the brain that might not be working as well.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 5:44
And then we can work on them by using the areas that are working better. And normally, that requires less inflammation, that requires a good metabolic compromise that requires good nutrition, like all those things, as a foundation to then get those things moving forward faster.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 6:05
And that’s kind of what that’s functional neurology is most of the time when people have a stroke, they’re going to get an MRI, they might see little lesions on the MRI that are turned structural as we can see them. But that might not be the only area that is of concern.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 6:23
There might be other functional areas that are involved. On the other hand concussions, you don’t see anything on an MRI. So there’s no structural issue. It’s all functional. And so that’s how we look at the brain by function, and we treat it by function.
Bill Gasiamis 6:37
Yeah. I love what you said, Well, firstly, I like the idea that you’re a chiropractor that understands the way the body is put together, all the little bits and pieces, how they connect to each other, how one thing saying the neck affects the leg, or the thing in the leg affects the neck.
Bill Gasiamis 6:56
And I like that chiropractors understand the injured toe, how that affects the gait, how that affects the muscles on the other side of the body, and how that can cause problems in the spine. And that can cause a headache, for example, or something else.
Bill Gasiamis 7:15
I love that there’s this knowledge of understanding from well, the problems in the neck, but I wonder if it starts somewhere else, and dealing with the source of the issue rather than where the symptoms appearing. And then that takes me into, functional medicine, which is a similar approach functional medicine, doctors, practitioners, will talk about the cause, what’s the underlying cause of your symptom, and let’s not treat the symptom, let’s solve the problem at the cause.
Bill Gasiamis 7:51
And then you’re talking about functional neurology. And that’s, again, like these great terms and ideas of actually going into the neurological space in the person. And then working out from there. Backwards and dealing with the source of the issue rather than for example, this might be a bad example, but the memory loss or the fatigue or whatever, okay, you’re dealing with fatigue, well rest more or sleep more or whatever.
Bill Gasiamis 8:26
But there’s really an underlying issue. And that was what I noticed for me. So my brief history so we can make it part of our conversations together was that in 2012, I had a brain hemorrhage caused by an arteriovenous malformation, a faulty blood vessel that bled.
Bill Gasiamis 8:46
And then six weeks later, I had another bleed from the same blood vessel that was more dramatic, far more blood, and a lot more deficits that I experienced, I experienced a lot more losses above my function. And then fast forward about two and a half years later, I had another bleed from the same blood vessel which eventually had to be removed through surgery.
Bill Gasiamis 9:11
And in that time, in that two and a half years between the first bleed and surgery, I experienced fatigue, I experienced the memory loss. I didn’t know my name, at one point, couldn’t recognize my wife, couldn’t keep time, couldn’t make my appointments, couldn’t drive, couldn’t work.
Bill Gasiamis 9:30
And I had the presence of mind of knowing that whatever was happening to me that I could potentially be contributing to it and making it worse. And I’m not sure where that thought came from but that one thought made me look into what can I do to support the healing of my brain and the areas that aren’t affected by the blood directly but are affected nonetheless.
Bill Gasiamis 9:56
And the only thing that I could come up with which started this entire thing later on, which became the podcast. And the only thing that I could come up with was, they were giving me a drug called dexamethasone to deal with the inflammation at the source of the bleed, at the side of the bleed, and I wanted to get off dexamethasone, because it was a terrible steroid drug to be on.
Bill Gasiamis 10:23
It was the symptoms were just unbelievable what it was causing to me, including insomnia, and the feeling of bugs crawling up my arms and hallucinations, weight gain, you name it. And I thought, Is there any way that I could support my brain to become a less inflamed?
Bill Gasiamis 10:48
And if there is, what is it and work and can I do it on my own? And immediately the Google searches that I did came up with nutrition. And it was so easy, because I could do that from home. And I was spending a lot of time at home and all I needed to do was instead of do something, I had to stop doing something which all that meant was unable to stop, for example, drinking alcohol, drinking sodas with, you know, high amounts of sugar in them, stopping the consumption of gluten, decreasing the consumption of caffeine and decreasing the consumption of dairy.
Bill Gasiamis 11:27
And I noticed that even though I had all this stuff going on in my head, I was still able to have a lot of control over how I felt. Because when I chose to eat bread you know, once a month or once a week or whenever I felt like it, I noticed how I felt soon after. And it was debilitating fatigue, bloatedness inability to be myself again.
Bill Gasiamis 11:59
And I started noticing that I was doing that to myself more and more every time I ate. And then that went away, Nick, that just went away and the only thing I was dealing with was what the blood in my head was doing to me. I wasn’t dealing with what I was also doing to me.
Bill Gasiamis 12:21
That’s why when I saw your Instagram, I thought, well, I’ve got to get in touch with this guy, because you’re talking the language that I don’t know how to speak to the people listening to this podcast, who will really benefit from it. So I want to touch on less inflammation. That’s one of the first things you said, tell me about inflammation, what it is and what it does. And why it occurs when somebody has a brain injury in the acute phase. And then why it kind of hangs around.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 12:51
Of course. So the first thing with the acute inflammation is so an ischemic stroke, hemorrhagic stroke, either one is going to cause inflammation, it’s basically a traumatic brain injury without the hit to the head. And so let’s just talk about an ischemic stroke, that’s just basically we, you know, squeeze off a blood vessel, there is no oxygen getting into the tissue that’s supplying that the blood vessels supposed to be supplying.
What Is Brain Inflammation? – Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 12:51
And so therefore, the brain is not getting oxygen, if the brain is not getting oxygen, we need oxygen to live, like how many people can hold their breath for more than five minutes? I mean, I can’t hold my breath for more than a minute.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 13:18
Those people are crazy, right? So but if the brain is not getting oxygen, the brain uses oxygen to make ATP. I know you had Dr. Clark on, I listened to him and he’s a great guy. And we’ve learned a lot from him. But with ATP is an energy currency in the cell.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 14:05
So basically, just how we use money to buy things while the cell makes ATP from our energy sources to then use it to produce functions in the cell. And one of those main functions that are super important for brain cells or neurons are going to be to keep the electrical potential balanced.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 14:27
That means we have like electrolytes, right? sodium, potassium, magnesium, calcium, those need to be in their separate areas, which means potassium needs to be inside the cell, sodium needs to be out. And if we don’t have enough oxygen to make ATP, we have a specific pump that’s constantly working against the gradient to get sodium out, potassium in the cell.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 14:52
And if we don’t have that, now all sudden that threshold for the neuron goes down. Now rather than you might need a really big push to get the neuron to fire, now, it’s just like a little tap, it’s kind of like when somebody has a dog, when all you have to do is kind of tap on the door, and they start barking at you, right?
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 15:18
Kind of like that, right? I mean, versus someone doesn’t have a dog, you have to kind of bang, bang, bang to get their attention. So now that lower threshold, that little tap means that your brain is sending signals when it shouldn’t be.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 15:32
And when the brain is sending signals when it shouldn’t be, then it kind of gets out of control, and it leads to those neurons start to die, they start to undergo these different sides of processes that cause them to die. And when they die, they release products that cause more inflammation, basically.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 15:53
And so you have other cells in the area that are trying to reduce the damage, you have these inflammatory cells called microglia, that are trying to reduce the damage, but they cause more inflammation, you have the blood flow from the other areas, that are getting blood flow.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 16:09
More immune cells are going they’re causing more inflammation. And so that’s like the acute process, that acute process is generally good, we need to kind of control that and have that happen to kind of control the overall damage.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 16:25
The problem is, is when it kind of last and it keeps going is then you can get this secondary injury where it’s like secondary inflammation causing more problems. And then on top of it, so your brain has a skull, right. And so an inflammation gets there, just like when you have swelling in your hand, after you injure your wrist or something.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 16:48
You get swelling in your brain that causes pressure and pressure build up. Well, you have arteries that go to your brain, you have veins that come away. And those veins need to release or kind of get rid of those toxins. And so when just like any cell is dying, there’s waste that has been produced, there’s toxins, there’s the inflammatory molecules that went up there, cytokines to help with the inflammation.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 17:13
Those signaling molecules, they need to also be drained. And if they’re not being drained properly, because there’s damage to the veins, there’s damage to the lymphatic system. So the lymphatic system also deals with drainage, then that inflammation just kind of sticks around.
The Autonomic Nervous System – Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer

Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 17:31
Then on top of it, you add in the autonomic nervous system. So the autonomic nervous system is like our sympathetic, which is our fight or flight nervous system, kind of like gotta run away from a bear versus the rest and digest or parasympathetic system.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 17:48
And when you have a brain injury or any injury, your fight or flight system has to be up and elevated, because it has to try to take care and keep you alive. The problem is the brain controls that. And so there are lots of areas in your brain that control that mostly it’s going to be like the midline structures in the brainstem.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 18:11
Brainstem, and then a little bit higher up in like the basal ganglia. Those midline structures, there are a lot of connections that are crossing through that midline. So just about any head injury, any stroke is going to affect the autonomic nervous system.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 18:28
And the autonomic nervous system, besides controlling that fight or flight rest and digest the rest and digest part that parasympathetic is going to have an effect on the gut. And so you have a nerve called the vagus nerve that has to run down goes to all of it’s my favorite nerve, by the way, the wandering nerve, right?
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 18:50
And vagus means wandering and goes to the heart in the lungs, and it goes to most of your digestive organs, most of your gut and colon. And the greatest thing about it is most of its actually sensory. So most of it is picking up 80% of it is picking up what’s actually coming from the gut.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 19:09
And so if before the stroke before the head injury, you had inflammation, you had dysbiosis, your microbiome was off, you weren’t eating healthy. Well, your vagus nerve was telling your brain that your brain was figuring it out and sending signals back down, that it has like this anti-inflammatory reflex to kind of like calm it.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 19:28
Well now with the brain injury, you can’t do that. And so the signals are coming up the brain and gut are disconnected. And that is going to perpetuate the inflammation. Now all sudden, a leaky brain leads to a leaky gut because damage to the brain causes this blood brain barrier that helps to protect it causes to be leaky. Now you have a leaky gut as well.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 19:52
Microbes are getting in toxins from your food and pesticides from your food are getting in. It’s just not a necessarily a great scenario. And so once that acute inflammation settles, then you’re left with, Okay, do you have a good working autonomic nervous system.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 20:08
And if you do great, you might have a couple other issues. If you don’t, well, then you’re going to have this chronic inflammation going. And especially if you’re not supporting it with the proper diet, proper nutrition, or even lifestyle factors, like just stress and sleep.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 20:24
I talked about the lymphatic system and draining toxins. Sleep is the most important thing for draining toxins, you have to get to your slow wave sleep in order to drain those toxins at night. And if you’re not getting into that, which is also a brainstem mediated midline structure thing, then you’re not actually going to get rid of that inflammation.
Bill Gasiamis 20:45
Well, that’s a lot to unpack. Let’s unpack it. All right, so let’s talk about the autonomic nervous system. So for people listening and watching who are hearing for the first time, this is the way I understand the autonomic nervous system. It’s the part of the nervous system that makes things work, which we then have to think about, like our heartbeat, like I need to go to the toilet, like where our eyes go.
Bill Gasiamis 21:10
All those things like the way our tongue moves, all those things that are related to automatically happening, that things that happen that we don’t have to think about. That’s a really good system to have in place. And the autonomic nervous system can be messed up, it can be interfered with by all the things that Dr. Nick spoke about all of the stuff regarding inflammation.
Bill Gasiamis 21:35
Because what it can do is interfere with the signals coming from the brain and the gut as to how it should be operating. And when it’s receiving signals that are not optimal, or only half signals because there’s interruptions in that process, or because things aren’t operating properly because of inflammation, then it kind of goes a little bit off whack.
Bill Gasiamis 22:00
It’s kind of like an out of tune car that is kind of running and kind of gets you to where you want to go. But you can tell it just doesn’t feel right. And it needs to be retuned and re serviced or the oil change or something like that. So the autonomic nervous system, it appears to be out of our control, but we can actually take control of it as well.
Bill Gasiamis 22:20
And one of those ways is breathing. And meditation, which you touched on, right. So breathing, basically, when you decide to do a 4 second breath in, and a 4 second breath out. And you’re counting to say a metronome or a timer or something like that, you’re actually taking control of your autonomic nervous system.
Heal Your Brain Tip #1 Proper Breathing
Bill Gasiamis 22:42
And what you’re doing is you’re bringing the sympathetic arm, and the parasympathetic arm closer to the middle line, and you’re making it more balanced, and you’re able to then influence factors like your cortisol levels, your stress, hormones, all of that in a positive way. And that helps to decrease the stress and the inflammation in your body. So that’s why meditation and breathing properly is important.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 23:15
That’s the first exercise I give every patient is breathing.
Bill Gasiamis 23:19
So tell me about your spin on breathing and what you feel breathing can help accomplish other than, and this is, again, something I want to emphasize because control in stroke seems to be in people, it seems to be lost to the doctors. But here is another way, you could take back a little bit of control in what you’re experiencing, simply by choosing a balanced breathing exercise. Nick, tell me about your thoughts on breathing and how important it is.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 23:51
Yeah, So research shows that six breaths a minute is the best to activate the vagus nerve. And so that’s 10 seconds per breath. So my suggestion for people is like four to five seconds in five to six seconds out, always through the nose. And again, only into the belly, and maybe a little bit of the chest, right, we’re trying to activate the diaphragm.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 24:16
The diaphragm is properly activated, we breathe into our belly, our kidneys actually move like a mile a day, because they’re just going back and forth if we breathe properly, and so that activation, like I said the vagus nerve is 80% sensory.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 24:32
So the activation of breathing properly into your belly and moving your organs is activating your vagus nerve, sending those rest and digest signals, those calming signals, and it can really just kind of settle that autonomic nervous system, like you were discussing.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 24:51
And therefore it can control your heart rate, control your heart rate, decreased stress levels a little bit. Obviously we can’t take away stress. We can’t take away stressors in the investment but, again, what you just said, having a little bit of control, you can’t control too many things in life, you can control your attitude and your effort.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 25:11
And it’s kind of like, so if other things around in the environment, I mean, heck, just come back to your breath, have a positive attitude. And just, you know, have a good effortful nice and easy breath in and out through your nose.
Bill Gasiamis 25:23
Let’s talk about the nose, why is it important in and out of the nose?
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 25:30
Many reasons, the nose humidifies the hair, so it has all these little terminates and stuff in it that humidifiers the air, so therefore it’s gonna be better in the lungs. When you breathe through your mouth, your tongue isn’t set properly. And so therefore, when your tongue is not set properly, you’re going to have more dehydration, especially breathing out through your mouth.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 25:58
And it can also lead more like sleep apnea stuff. So basically, your palate might fall because you’re not breathing properly. When you breathe through your nose, just everything is working better. A little aside to this, like I mouth tape every night, to make sure that at night, I’m breathing through my nose.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 26:17
And it’s amazing how after a month of doing it consistently, like my sleep has never been better. So it’s one of those things where breathing through your nose is definitely essential. And a lot of people don’t do it, you look at a lot of kids that have maybe like ADHD, or other issues like that, a lot of times they don’t know how to breathe through their nose.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 26:37
The other thing with the nose too, is breathing through your nose, your olfactory nerves are directly attached to your limbic system. The limbic system is more of like emotions and memory. And so by breathing through your nose, you’re actually getting more oxygenation, more blood flow into those memory centers into your emotional centers, to which can not only calm your emotions, but settle down like anger and aggression and sadness.
Bill Gasiamis 27:03
And this particular suggestion, which I hear a lot of, and especially on episode 19. So anyone who’s listening, way back in episode 19, almost 200 episodes ago I interviewed Patrick McEwan, who was a buteyko method, trainer, coach, expert.
Bill Gasiamis 27:25
And the buteyko method is a breathing method. And he talks exactly about those things that you just spoke about. And also, I’m going to say this very crudely, but it it creates the correct chemical balance when you breathe through your nose, the correct chemical balance in the oxygenation of your blood. And then in the expelling of carbon dioxide out of your nose.
Bill Gasiamis 27:56
So when you breathe out of your nose, so it’s really, really important to have a good airway, a clear nose passages so that when you’re breathing, you’re doing all those things. Because it is such a simple simple win again, and you get such massive results by doing it.
Bill Gasiamis 28:19
So breathing through your nose is really important. Something that people could look into is perhaps with their doctors, if they feel like they can’t well through the nose, go get a checked out, see if there’s a deviated septum or something and start to attend to those types of things, mouth typing, it might be something that’s quite new for people to hear. Explain to me a little bit about what specifically you do with mouth taping, what did you tape it with?
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 28:51
First of all, you’re right about the deviated septum. Like definitely go get it checked out, a lot of people with deviated septums because they hit their head as children, and it just like grew differently. Also checking for like chronic infections that might be clogging that.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 29:07
But mouth taping so mouth taping I just take like a little bit of the brand is next care, it’s like paper tape. So like if you ever go to the hospital and you have an IV and you and they put like a little bit of that paper tape over just to hold the IV needle there.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 29:27
That’s kind of what it is. It’s not a strong tape. It’s very gentle, most gentlest type. I don’t put it like across like that. I put it just straight down. And so by putting it straight down, it just keeps the lips sealed and allows you to breathe through your nose the first week or so I woke up with it every middle of the night with it on my hand.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 29:49
My body just said I’m not breathing well through my nose. I’m gonna rip it off. But as you go forward as I went forward, I’ve heard this by multiple people. You actually create more mucus, if you’re breathing properly through your nose, because if you weren’t breathing through your nose, now all sudden, you’re getting all these, like air molecules into your nose and your nose is like whoa, we’re not used to this, we need to defend it with some mucus.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 30:15
And so you might have to blow your nose more for the first week or two. But after that, man, it’s like you’re clear as day. And then now I don’t take it off at all at night. If I am sick ever, I don’t wear it, because you know, it’s just my nose is too clogged. But it’s amazing to be able to wake up and after eight full hours of sleep, not wake up once throughout the night, and just feel like refreshed. And that’s kind of what I feel every morning.
Bill Gasiamis 30:44
Let’s talking about the balanced breathing, or the breathing that you mentioned, which was four or five seconds in, five or six seconds out why the longer out breath?
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 30:57
So the longer outbreath has been shown to activate the parasympathetic nervous system, a lot of people like to do 4, 5, 6, or 4, 5, 8, where they go in for four, hold for five, and then out for eight. I think that can mess up oxygenation levels a little bit, where you’re actually breathing off more carbon dioxide than you’re actually producing in your body.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 31:24
Some people do need that. But I’d rather I just want to aggregate a little bit of parasympathetic nervous system that Rest Digest activation, without doing too much stuff, I just go a little bit longer on the out. We don’t want people to get over oxygenated or oxygenated can actually cause a little bit of anxiety in some people.
Intro 31:44
If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. Like how long will it take to recover? Will I actually recover? What things should I avoid? In case I make matters worse, doctors will explain things that obviously, you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask.
Intro 32:08
If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you it’s called the seven questions to ask your doctor about your stroke.
Intro 32:27
These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition. And they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery. Head to the website now, recoveryafterstroke.com and download the guide. It’s free.
Bill Gasiamis 32:46
Yeah, so if we’re getting people, by breathing out just that one extra second out, as opposed to in, you actually bring people down into the Rest Digest phase, which is the less activated phase, it’s less cortisol running through the system, less heart rate, less blood pressure, all the markers that stroke survivors need to monitor that we don’t want elevated actually tend to decrease and that just one extra second out, just does that.
Bill Gasiamis 33:19
It actually allows people to just dip under the line of being a balanced autonomic nervous system to slightly into the rest and digest phase more so so people should notice. By practicing that, that once, twice, or even three times a day, I prefer to do it in the morning when I wake up, middle of the day safe, I’m driving somewhere. And then just before I go to bed at night, and what it does is it actually puts me into those calmer states. So I’ll wake up calmer, I go to bed calmer, I sleep better as a result.
Bill Gasiamis 33:55
And then when I’m in the middle of the day, and the traffic is getting to me, or the wrong music’s on the radio, I’ll just breathe and I’ll calm down and it will really help to just deactivate those fight or flight responses, those responses where, you know, sometimes they run haywire and you’re not realizing that you’re losing your shit. And you’re acting like an idiot, which I’ve done before.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 34:24
I’d recommend when you’re driving is usually if you got the seatbelt right by your belly button. And you can just breathe into the seatbelt. And it just like creates a little bit of kind of feedback, proprioceptive feedback to breathe into your belly. And you just breathe in and out through your nose. It’s the best time to work on breathing, because it is generally a stressful environment.
Bill Gasiamis 34:44
And if you’re thinking that you don’t know what the hell we’re talking about what type of breathing that is just jump on to YouTube and just Google and search diaphragmatic breathing, breathing through the diaphragm. And you’ll see there’ll be tons of videos of people showing you exactly how to do that.
Bill Gasiamis 35:00
And it’s the way we used to breathe, but for some reason, and it’s the way babies will breathe, when you just put them down, you’ll see that they’ll immediately just breathe in their belly, and their belly will move in and out. But for some reason, adults seem to breathe through their chest, and try to expand their lungs and get more oxygen into the lungs, rather than drop the diaphragm. And, and elongate the lungs I’m not sure why.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 35:26
There’s, a few theories. One theory is obviously like vanity, we want to suck in our gut to look good. As we get older. So you think of like, you know, even five year olds, like looking through magazines and seeing people and their models that are just not realistic and they’re sucking in.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 35:44
The other theory is, when you start going to school, whether you’re like three, four, In preschool or five, kindergarten, and you’re sitting so much, sitting is just going to contract your hip flexors more. And then the hip flexors actually have a connection to that diaphragm.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 35:59
And so that can actually turn off the diaphragmatic function. And so people start breathing into their lungs more, or their chest rather than belly. So there’s a few theories. I don’t know if we know which one’s best or which one which.
The Blood-brain Barrier
Bill Gasiamis 36:15
Awesome. Tell me a little bit about the blood-brain barrier. Because all these things are connected, the blood-brain barrier is something that was severed for me when we needed to have brain surgery, right? And as a result of that, I was quite aware of the impact of that, and what that might actually do, and cause.
Bill Gasiamis 36:36
However, there wasn’t much I could do to heal it, it had to heal by itself over time. But with me doing all the right things, eating appropriately, minimizing sugars, and minimizing all of those additives in my food. So I became very clean eating at home, cooking most of my meals, etc.
Bill Gasiamis 36:54
But what happened to me was, I had a thyroid condition, where one of my thyroid glands was way too large, it was becoming a problem in my airway. And as a result of that, about 18 months after my brain surgery, I had to have part of my thyroid removed.
Bill Gasiamis 37:15
And when I woke up from surgery, the my left side deficits were far worse than they were when I went into surgery. And I didn’t realize until a little while later why that might be. And I feel like perhaps the anesthetic, the general anesthetic that they used to put me under during surgery may have contributed to that at the time where my blood brain barrier was still fragile.
Bill Gasiamis 37:45
And anesthetics meant to penetrate in any way, I’m pretty sure it’s meant to penetrate the blood brain barrier and impacted my inflamed, damaged, whatever you want to call them neurons, sensory neurons, and made matters a little bit worse.
Bill Gasiamis 38:02
Now, I think that it’s improved since then, because now there’s six years beyond that surgery. But I feel like is definitely worse than it was at the beginning. And I didn’t learn about the blood-brain barrier until around about that time or after that surgery. And now I’m very aware of why we need an intact one. And I want to know how we can support one, and why we want to support an intact blood-brain barrier.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 38:37
Yeah, so the blood brain barrier is basically is a collection of cells that then have these little extensions that wrap around our blood vessels. And by wrapping around our blood vessels, it prevents bigger molecules from passing. So the smaller molecules like ions, like sodium, and like salt and potassium, can easily pass. But like larger proteins aren’t going to pass those inflammatory toxins are not going to pass.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 39:10
Bigger proteins like so glucose or ketone bodies are going to pass really easily for fuel into the brain. But that blood brain barrier those extensions, they’re made from astrocytes. And when you have inflammation, the astrocytes aren’t getting enough oxygen to keep up their little holdings in connection.
Bill Gasiamis 39:34
What astrocytes?
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 39:35
They’re a cell that are in the brain. And I guess the best way to describe them as they are this like star looking cell that have extensions that wrap around the blood vessels, and they wrap around the blood vessels to protect it, and that’s what makes the blood-brain barrier.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 39:40
And so if those are damaged now, those extensions are lost. And so now there’s no barrier between the blood and the brain. So things can easily pass through. I should note that the blood-brain barrier is not completely all consistent.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 40:09
There are areas that are supposed to not have the moon and blood-brain barrier, because they are areas that are going to sense things faster. So for instance, kind of like when you when you eat something bad, and it’s like an instant, like, oh, that’s bad, and you get nauseous.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 40:27
So your hypothalamus, a very deep part of the brain, there’s an area that is there’s no blood-brain barrier there. And because it just needs to be able to sense things very fast. There’s a part called the area postrema, which is the vomiting center, there’s no blood-brain barrier there.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 40:45
Because if we eat something that we need to throw up, it’s boom, it needs to happen. And so what gets into our blood goes in there, it needs to happen, but it’s very those small areas. When you have too many areas that are open to the blood-brain barrier then too many toxins get in and again, those toxins aren’t able to get out and that’s what perpetuates the inflammation.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 41:07
And so astrocytes can be best supported, actually by ketone bodies. So astrocytes, they actually make ketones and they utilize ketones for energy, they utilize glucose as well. But they utilize ketones for energy. And so that’s where like a ketogenic diet or keto bias, I know Dr. Clark talks about beta-hydroxybutyrate, which is just a specific ketone body can be really beneficial for general brain health.
Bill Gasiamis 41:41
Awesome. So the blood-brain barrier again, we can intervene in what gets through simply by what we consume. And that’s another form of a little bit of control, supporting the blood-brain barrier to keep out as much toxins as possible during that time where the brain is recovering from this inflammation that was caused by the stroke, or the injury to the brain.
Bill Gasiamis 42:07
And one of the things that you briefly mentioned earlier to bring all of this stuff that we’ve spoken about already together to bring it together, even better. We spoke about breathing was spoken about the blood brain barrier. We’ve spoken about the autonomic nervous system, I want to talk about how sleeping is one of the things that actually supports to clear the brain of toxins in that phase that you mentioned in that sleep phase that you mentioned earlier.
Bill Gasiamis 42:38
Why it’s important and how all of these things support each other. So the way I understand that is, if you go into bed, you have a five minute meditation, you’re doing the four seconds, five seconds in six seconds out breathing, you’re supporting yourself to go into a better sleep cycle, when you’re going into a better sleep cycle. You have more REM sleep, when you have more REM sleep, you have more ability to detoxify the brain.
Bill Gasiamis 43:04
And when you’re sleeping with your mouth taped, and you’re breathing better, that’s supporting once again that well, oxygenation of the blood, decreasing inflammation it supports cells in their recovery, it supports allowing you to wake up feeling more refreshed, because all those things work together, they don’t work individually, they all support each other.
Bill Gasiamis 43:30
So tell me about sleep. And some of the things that it’s important. It’s important for like what it does to you. Because some people will brag about the fact that they don’t sleep a lot. I don’t need to sleep a lot, or some people will tell you that they don’t go to sleep until you know three or four in the morning. All these things that you hear about people talk about this sleep, and some of them are not really supportive of healing a brain after a stroke or another injury.
2. Heal Your Brain Tip #2 Getting Enough Sleep

Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 44:04
Yeah. So we learn in our sleep, right? I mean, in order to consolidate memories, we need to sleep. And those all happen in the deeper stages of sleep, which again, most people sleep on like 90-minute cycles. So it’s like you have this like stage one sleep and then it kind of goes down to stage two stage three REM comes back up. And then you might have a little like lucid moment and then come back and you just go through those.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 44:36
So you might get through like four cycles in a night. If you sleep six hours, you should get through four cycles, right? You might get through more. And you want to in though you want to optimize the amount of time that you’re in those deeper stages of sleep, because that is what’s going to again, get rid of those toxins from the brain but also help with consolidation of memory.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 45:01
Because at the cellular level, there’s recovery that’s happening. If you think about like, your brain is working all day long, like, you know, if you’re sitting on the couch, your brain is still working, right, it’s got to do all those autonomic things that you talked about, versus when you go to the gym and exercise. Yeah, you can exercise your muscles then.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 45:21
But like your brain is always working, it’s the one organ that is always getting 20% of your blood flow. And then it might get more during more intense thought or whatever that may be. But at night, your brain is still working. But what’s actually working is the those midline structures, the brainstem structures that are working constantly to turn off your big brain.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 45:45
Your big brain is kind of where you have those senses of, I can see something, I see light, I hear a dog barking next door or siren going by because you know, there’s, you know, police outside whatever it may be. And those needed to get shut off.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 46:00
So that or like, even the feeling like if you have a partner in bed that rolls over, you don’t want to wake up because that partner rolled over, right, you don’t want to wake up because they turn the light on, they go to the bathroom. And so the brainstem is working all throughout the night, to turn off or to keep that bigger brain turned off.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 46:19
And that allows for that deeper way of asleep. And that allows that, again, deeper brain limbic system, to memory centers, motions to restore and recover from all of the things that you learned throughout the day, whether you didn’t learn anything, I mean, most people learn at least one new thing every day, whether they like it or not.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 46:40
Or you’re just basically creating more habits of the days that you’re doing, or of throughout the day that you’re doing. That’s kind of one thing you mentioned about the autonomic nervous system about everything that’s more automatic, I would say to one like caveat to that the autonomic nervous system is everything that’s automatic for like your organs, things where you’re talking about, like your tongue movement, or your eye movement.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 47:05
Those are actually just like learn habits. And like, you know, when you walk into a room, the first thing you need to do is kind of survey the room to see you know, who’s there, what might be there, is there a getaway because you know, my fight or flight nervous system is up and if something happens, I might need to jump out a window.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 47:24
So there’s just some learned habits that happened like that. And but that makes the brain more efficient. And efficiency is key, especially when recovering from a traumatic brain injury from a stroke. Because you don’t want to be using your frontal lobe, which is supposed to be for creativity, for logical reasoning for decision-making. To to do every little thing, you should have daily habits.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 47:50
I wake up, I go to the bathroom, I brush my teeth, like those are just things that they just happen because they happen. You shouldn’t have to think, Oh, should I brush my teeth now? Or should I go to the bathroom now? No, it just should just happen. And when you have to have extra brainpower slows down decision-making. That’s a problem. So I went on that rant, back to sleep.
Bill Gasiamis 48:12
It’s a beautiful rant because they’re connected. They’re all connected.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 48:15
Yeah. And so with sleep is about recovery. And recovery is so important for learning and keeping your day going, and then getting rid of those toxins and proven inflammation. And like I said before, if you don’t get it’s a, it’s a vicious cycle, if you don’t get into that deep wave sleep, you don’t release the toxins, and therefore, you don’t heal and then you don’t be have a worst day.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 48:39
And then you have don’t get a deep way to sleep worse toxins. So that’s why supporting your body the best you can with proper diet and lifestyle changes and what you just said, having a good sleep hygiene routine where you can kind of settle your brain get your get your mind in a way that you can decrease that fight or flight nervous system, activate that rest, digest and have a good sleep.
Bill Gasiamis 49:02
Beautiful. I’m gonna emphasize a couple of things. Because you did a beautiful job, but I want to really actually emphasize it again, that memory is consolidated when we sleep. So if you’re somebody who’s had a stroke, and memory is an issue, short term or long term, and you’re in the phases of recovery, and depending on your injury, that might come a long way or it might not.
Bill Gasiamis 49:25
What you need to know is that memory while you’re doing that exercise, remembering at that moment is not the most efficient time to remember to feel like you need to be remembering. So I remember going to my neuro psych assessment, and then they would do all these exercises. It was about a three or four hour assessment when they were trying to work out my cognitive deficits.
Bill Gasiamis 49:50
And they would say to me, I’m going to give you the names of five fruit. And then in an hour or later on, I’m going to ask do about them again. And of course, I remembered some of them, but I didn’t remember all of them. And I remember feeling bad at the time about that feeling like I had missed something, and therefore it was no good.
Bill Gasiamis 50:11
And I was struggling with memory, for example. But I didn’t understand that memory gets consolidated better during sleep, because that’s kind of the most optimal stage for memory to occur, and to be stored. Whereas in the moment, like, right now, if my anxiety is up, and you’re making me try and remember, five or 10 things in a row, but I’m anxious, it’s less likely that those memories are going to stick.
Bill Gasiamis 50:40
So if we’re going into an exercise to remember something, and then we’re anxious about remembering, we might be getting in the way of those memories sticking, or getting stored. If we’ve had a day where we would lack sleep or wake up and we couldn’t get back to sleep. And we didn’t have a restful sleep, we’re going to struggle with storing memories.
Bill Gasiamis 51:02
If we’ve got other things on our mind, and we’re not focused on the task at hand. And we’re wondering about all these other things that have to happen during the day, we’re not concentrating, we might not remember things. So there’s a lot of reasons why memories won’t stick in the moment at the time, and if you can get your head out of telling you that that’s good, bad, or something else, that’s a really good way to go.
Bill Gasiamis 51:26
Just remember that that’s what sleep does, it helps you to consolidate your memory. And you don’t really have to do much more about that. If it’s something that’s important that you need to know, and you have a good night’s sleep, it’s more likely that that will be there tomorrow, because you had a good night’s sleep, and it got stored at the appropriate time.
Bill Gasiamis 51:46
So just hopefully, what that does is give people a little bit of sense of calmness around the fact that they have memory challenges, post-stroke, and that for a lot of those people that there are strategies to help support memory, long-term and short-term memory. Of course, if that part of your brain is severely damaged, and those areas are no longer functioning, then it’s understandable that you might have more longer term, short term and long term memory issues.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 52:24
Yes, 100%. Yeah. And if people do I mean, that doesn’t mean they can’t recover some of that stuff. But it may just take more time. And it may take more effort and actually like hard work, training those areas of their brain as well.
Bill Gasiamis 52:40
Yeah. While we’re on the topic of sleep, let’s talk about people who need some information about sleep where they can’t sleep, they don’t know how to sleep, they’ve lost the ability to sleep, all these things you hear people talk about. And then what they do is they go to alcohol, or cannabis or some other substance to help them apparently go to sleep. Does alcohol and marijuana in particular, actually help people sleep and get a good night’s restful sleep and go through the cycles appropriately and reach peak REM sleep?
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 53:14
Yeah, no. I mean, they generally because they’re depressants, they generally help you get to sleep, which some people do have problems with, and they feel like they need that. But when it comes to restful sleep, no, you don’t actually get into the deeper waves of sleep, and the restful sleep when you are using alcohol or cannabis. It just doesn’t happen.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 53:39
And so it’s a tough thing because people they’ll wake up feeling not really rested, but there at least well at least I got to sleep I didn’t. I wasn’t you know, churning with my anxiety all night. And so some people like with cannabis, we do recommend like, yeah, if that’s what you’re going to need right now. That’s okay and we’re gonna work on other things and other reasons.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 54:01
But my biggest suggestions for falling asleep with people is a couple things. First one is the sleep hygiene and like turning off screens, I mean, ideally, it’s probably like an hour or two hours before you go to bed, but most people can’t do that. So at least 30 minutes and just getting a routine of brushing your teeth, getting your things ready for the next day.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 54:29
Maybe planning writing down to do things for the next day, getting things off your mind, journaling, whatever you want to do, read a book, but don’t do any of that in bed. And when you get in bed, the only thing you’re doing is breathing and then go into sleep.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 54:43
You know there’s an old adage that’s like, the only thing that should happen in bed is sleep and sex and I am a firm believer in that like you shouldn’t be doing work in bed you shouldn’t be doing schoolwork you shouldn’t be studying you shouldn’t be anything like that. That is a sanctuary for special mostly sleep.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 55:01
And so yeah, sleep hygiene is huge. But then l’theanine, and magnesium threonate, those are two compounds that are really, really good. Magnesium, especially the threonate form has been shown to help pass the blood brain barrier. Because most magnesium is going to go to the rest of your body when you take it, like magnesium citrate or any of the other forms.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 55:29
But magnesium threonate for some reason, it has this affinity for the nervous system. And so help more magnesium pass the blood-brain barrier. And magnesium does this really cool thing where it’s a blocker of a specific channel. And that channel has to open when we have memory consolidation, basically, in neuroplasticity.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 55:52
And so it’s fluid and allows calcium to come in, and then go out. Well, if you don’t have enough magnesium, sometimes the magnesium isn’t covering that channel. And now too much calcium is going in. And I talked about earlier, all these ions have to be in their proper place, when you have too much calcium going in, that causes this excitotoxic process where the cells are going too much.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 56:15
And it’s too active. And that can cause anxiety that can cause Lack of sleep can cause more inflammation. All those things. So that’s why I like magnesium before bed, magnesium threonate specifically and l’theanine helps to kind of get your brainwaves in a in a second more settler state, like more alpha wave theta wave tone.
Bill Gasiamis 56:38
Yeah, awesome. There is a book that I’ve loved that I read about so but I’ve read a couple of them. But one of them was by a Dr. Guy Meadows, and he wrote this from the sleep school. And they help people and retrain people to learn how to sleep again.
Bill Gasiamis 56:54
Because what they kind of believe is that people basically have lost their process to sleep, they’ve just become, you know, it’s been muddled somewhere, and they haven’t been able to get back to their old process of just going back to sleep and sleeping, right? Who knows there are thing’s going on in their head, there’s lighting issues at home, there’s all sorts of things.
Bill Gasiamis 56:54
Now what I like to do to help me get to sleep is I switch off overhead lights, and I just switch on warm, yellow, not yellow, but warm lamps in the house. Excuse me. And in my bedroom, there’s literally just some very small, yellow LED lights on a strip that I use that are around my bed that I switch on, they’re battery operated, and they just relief release just a really light glow of warmth, kind of orange, light, yellow, orange kind of light.
Bill Gasiamis 57:52
And that’s all that you’ll get in my bedroom, I very rarely go in there with the light on if it’s during sleep time. So that’s what I do amongst a whole bunch of other stuff. But they’re the two things that I really control because the bright lights on my head really on top of my head really buzzed my brain out, they really sort of get overexcited they make my it makes my eyes hurt.
Bill Gasiamis 58:15
And then from there, like I can’t settle down. And I need to sort of just bring down the mood of the environment that I’m in in the room that I’m in just to sort of make it feel a little more kind of dark and cozy. And you know, something along those lines. So if somebody is interested in reading, you can jump on to I imagine every platform and find the sleep book, How To Sleep Well Every Night by Dr. Guy Meadows from The Sleep School. So just a little bit of resources there that people can go to
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 58:54
What you’re saying there about the light too. So the neurons that go back to your brain to shut off melatonin production, right? Melatonin is what elevates for sleep. So when it’s dark out the we’re going to have less melatonin production, therefore we can go to sleep.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 59:13
The neurons that are on the bottom of your retina are activating that process nor so overhead lights are coming down hitting the bottom of the retina and going back and activating that and so that’s why overhead lights can keep you up at night.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 59:29
So what you just said like having something that’s more on the side more ember, less full, like led can really be beneficial. I actually wear a sleep mask as well. Just because I live in Chicago. There’s a lot of city lights. I don’t have blackout curtains. So I wear a sleep mask. I think that really helps for me too.
Bill Gasiamis 59:47
Yeah. You’d be a sight. Sleep mask, tape over the mouth.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 59:56
Oh, yeah. People have told my wife to get a picture of me but it still haven’t happened yet. I fall asleep first too, because I’m out like that.
Bill Gasiamis 1:00:06
Yeah, I usually fall asleep quite well, the thing that interferes with my sleep is the need to get up in the middle of the night and go to the loo. Or if I do wake up with a dry mouth, they’re the things that interfere with my sleep. And sometimes after those brakes on in sleep, I might struggle to get back to sleep and then I might be tossing and turning.
Bill Gasiamis 1:00:25
That doesn’t happen all the time, I seem to have this cycle as well, which I have a few three or four nights of bad sleep, and then it goes back to normal again. And then two or three weeks later, I have another three or four days of bad sleep again, and then it goes back to normal again. And I don’t know why I haven’t been able to pinpoint what it is that does that interferes with it.
Bill Gasiamis 1:00:46
I imagined it’s got to do with lifestyle factors, right, whatever happened, you know, at work, or whatever happened with the family, you know, something is playing on my mind and stopping from settling me down, or perhaps something that I’ve done differently in moments of stress. I’ve eaten slightly differently, or I’ve stayed up a bit later, there’s some things that do interfere that I’m trying to kind of learn, but I don’t seem to, I don’t seem to be able to find the pattern, but I’m okay with it.
Bill Gasiamis 1:01:14
Because I would say that 85% of my sleep is pretty good. Now, I could talk to you for such a long time, I haven’t been able to mention anything yet that you haven’t been able to answer. And I feel like if I just keep asking you questions, you’re just gonna keep answering them and I love that.
Bill Gasiamis 1:01:30
But we do have to wrap it up at some point. And in order to wrap it up with some real good information for people to understand about nutrition, I want to talk about your posts, specifically on Instagram, and what you describe as your carnivore ish, routine. And by that, by that what I know, your carnivore ish diet means is that what you’re doing is the majority of the time you’re eating protein, and you’re sliding in some vegetables.
Bill Gasiamis 1:02:09
But before that you were doing, I think like a 30 day challenge or a 33 day challenge or something of the carnivore diet. Now, that’s gonna mess people’s heads, because as soon as I heard about the carnivore diet, I was kind of like, What are you talking about? Like, how can that be possible? I’ve grown up my entire life. 48 years old, I’ve been told every single day in my life, that the food pyramid looks like this, you have the all those things in the food pyramid.
Bill Gasiamis 1:02:34
And if you don’t eat all those things, you won’t be eating a balanced diet. And there’s nothing balanced about eating just meat or protein. So can you give us in the next five or 10 minutes a very brief kind of synopsis of diet and how come these supposedly crazy fads of the carnivore diet are starting to move into a positive space where people are looking at them seriously.
Bill Gasiamis 1:03:12
And also seeing massive, physiological positive changes when they do go on a diet that is very high in protein specifically for dealing with traumatic brain injuries and things like that. And then I’ll tell you about my experience with diet.
Heal Your Brain Tip #3 The Carnivore Diet

Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 1:03:38
Let me start first with any change to a diet from like, the standard American diet or from processed food is a good change, right? If anybody listening, like I’m going to talk about some pretty radical, I guess, thinking and ideas, but getting rid of processed sugar, processed carbs, and processed oils, which is mostly in processed foods, and just sticking to meat, fruits and vegetables.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 1:04:06
I mean, if you can do that in life, like you’re gonna be way better off than, you know, 80% 90% of the people out there. And so when it comes to diet, I mean, I was the same way as you with the carnivore diet. I heard it I was like, no frickin way like there’s no way this can be healthy for you like I was a big fiber guy before.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 1:04:29
Before starting carnivore, I was doing keto often on here and there and I was always like, you gotta have enough fiber, I gotta get enough fiber and think about carbs and all that stuff. And because ketogenic diet, great for the brain, I don’t think anybody should be in ketogenic diet long-term, but I do think that it can be great on and off cycling and stuff like that.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 1:04:51
So when I heard about the carnivore diet, I was like, Okay, there’s all these things out there that are showing benefits for autoimmunity, traumatic brain injury. You know, I have to try this diet, because I’m not going to recommend it to a patient unless I do it.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 1:05:05
So I think I’ve done it. I’ve done a strict carnivore two times, for like 40 days just during Lent. And then ended it kind of going more carnivore-ish and then kind of having what I want, and then afterwards.
Bill Gasiamis 1:05:22
Sorry. I’m laughing because you did it during Lent, which usually they do the opposite.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 1:05:28
Exactly. So, yeah. So Fridays, were tough. Fridays, were just a lot of fish basically. But you know, I do my best. Anyway. So the thing with most people are, most people think that meat is bad, right? Meat either causes cancer or, cardiovascular disease, because of the cholesterol and saturated fat.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 1:05:57
And that’s, you know, this podcast could be years long. And so the basic thing is that, to me, and a lot of other people, there are a lot of different camps. And some research has been flawed, and some research is better. And their association studies association studies don’t really take into account bad habits or good habits, other eating lifestyle, or smoking or exercise or anything of that.
Bill Gasiamis 1:06:24
Let me just explain what association studies are Nick. Basically, association studies are, we followed 30 people for one year, who ate red meat. And we saw that at the end of that year, one person had cancer, the other person got diabetes, the other person did this, and the other person had that and all these things.
Bill Gasiamis 1:06:46
However, what they don’t do is they don’t go and ask that person. Are you smoking? Are you drinking alcohol excessively? Are you exercising? Are you overweight? Are you any of these things, they don’t ask people other questions about what else their habits involve. And then what they do is when their focus is so narrow, and then out of the, the 30 people, there’s 10% of them, for example, had heart disease at the end of the 100 days, or whatever it is.
Bill Gasiamis 1:07:19
Then what they do is they announce it feels like for me just for the sake of a headline, they announced that we followed this many people for this many days who ate meat and X amount of them at the end of that period of time, had this disease.
Bill Gasiamis 1:07:39
And then what they do is they quickly associate that disease to meet and then they release an article that says something in words to that effect. And that’s as good research as me going down the road and seeing how many people drive past in a red car. And how many of them had a crash, and then associating the people who drive red cars crashed more often just because I saw red cars, and I was looking for red cars.
Bill Gasiamis 1:08:07
And then I wanted to report back on how many crashes they had. I mean, it’s terrible data. It’s terrible research. And it shouldn’t be taken seriously. But it has been because most of us lay people don’t know, when somebody is releasing a piece of information like that we don’t know to look deeper, and question that and understand where it came from. So that’s the association study roughly described by me and what Dr. Nick’s talking about.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 1:08:36
And you’re right, and even if they do look into those other confounding factors, they may list them briefly, but they don’t actually put them in the title of the study. So therefore, if people don’t read them, then they don’t figure it out. So all in all, with a carnivore diet, the diet is basically that you’re only eating animal products. So you’re eating meat from beef, and lamb and chicken and pork, and fish, all kinds of fish.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 1:09:07
And then you’re also eating the way I did it was also eating organ meats. So you’re eating liver, kidney, or spleen, which are the most nutrient-dense foods out there. And there was actually just a study in 2022, early in March, that showed that organs are the most nutrient-dense foods out there because they supply good sources of iron and zinc and these micronutrients that most people are deficient in, in lower middle income countries, or groups.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 1:09:38
And so, it’s the non-meat drinking bone broth or calcium. You could, I mean, people eat eggshells for calcium, I don’t do that. But doing those things, I eat eggs too. And so it’s a high protein, high fat diet, or I guess, moderate protein, high fat. And so it basically becomes a ketogenic diet. And what it does is it takes away a lot of the plant toxins that are out there. So everyone thinks, you know, plants are good for me. But no one ever looks at the possible harm that plants can have.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 1:10:16
Plants. They are defenseless, right, they can’t move, they can’t run away, like animals can. And so the only way that they can defend themselves from other insects or other bugs or other squirrels or rabbits that are trying to eat them, is by making defense chemicals. And those defense chemicals are called phytonutrients. everyone that hears that term phytonutrients are like, “Oh, phytonutrients, there are nutrients for us, they’re good for us and made by plants.”
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 1:10:44
But phyto actually can mean like they’re fighting off. And so what those nutrients do is they do activate things in our body, that may be a net good, maybe, they basically help with maybe detox or help to decrease free radicals. But at the same time, it also may damage our DNA. And by damaging our DNA, it causes that to happen. So the thing is with plants is we have to be wary that not everything we eat doesn’t have a side effect, just like a pharmaceutical or a supplement.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 1:11:22
Most pharmaceuticals actually come from plants, they come from molecules and they synthesize them, or they make them synthetically. And they’re going to have side effects, just like herbal medicine is going to have side effects just at a less rate or less intensity. So long story short is that we’re getting rid of all those plant materials and those plant materials may help with decreasing autoimmunity.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 1:11:47
Because if your body gets in this toxin, and it’s like the immune system is already on like this fight or flight, immune systems already have more inflammation from a traumatic brain injury from a stroke, then you’re more likely to get an autoimmune reaction to this random molecule. The most common one is gluten. Gluten is a lectin. So a lectin is just again a part of a plant and in gluten is just one term of that other lectins are coming from like dairy like casein is a lectin. Another one comes from tomatoes, legumes, right, those things.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 1:12:24
And then, also speaking of legumes, legumes have phytates. So phytic acid are going to bind to minerals like zinc and iron, calcium, magnesium as well and prevent absorption. They basically just go out in your stool oxalates are another thing that are mostly in like spinach and rhubarb and turmeric and high in turmeric. And so even though turmeric has been maybe it can improve inflammation there also it’s oxalates that prevented you from absorbing zinc and iron.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 1:12:57
And so that’s where there’s all these different chemicals that can just prevent you from actually absorbing all your nutrients and can make us even more nutrient deprived. So, my experience of the diet was that I thought I was the pickiest, this is a good thing too. I was the pickiest eater as a kid. Absolutely pickiest, the only thing I would ever eat, never ate a burger. I did not like ketchup. I would eat chicken, steak, and spaghetti. And then ice cream of course. Oh, mashed potatoes were good too.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 1:13:29
But, no green beans, no spinach. No nothing like that. When I got to college, I started learning about more foods and maybe the healthy thing parts of plants. So I started trying them and just saying, “Oh, it’s healthy for me. I’m going to keep eating it. I’ll like it.” When I got to chiropractic school. Same thing, kind of learned all these things. I started just trying everything and eventually I started to then like them, so when I was “like liver” there’s no way I’m gonna like liver.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 1:13:56
This is gonna suck, my dad ate liver as a kid, he talked about how much he hated it. I just stir-fried it and some butter and it was fantastic. And so I eat liver, like a pound of liver every other week. And it’s just the most nutrient-dense thing. It’s like it’s nature’s multivitamin. And so my experience was that I loved eating meat and the more that I ate it wasn’t tough because there’s a lot of variety with organs and much many different types of meat.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 1:14:28
And then I went to this carnivore-ish or more like animal based diet where basically I have some vegetables here and there as long as they’re cooked thoroughly so that we can get rid of some of those toxins or break them down. And then a lot of fruit and so fruit is going to have some natural sugars and fructose. But I am somebody who can handle them. I work out every day. I’m not like against eating carbohydrates.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 1:14:55
Like I said, I think it’s something that the ketogenic diet is great in an initial math like three month period after a stroke or traumatic brain injury, just to decrease inflammation, support the brain with the necessary nutrients, and energy source like ketone bodies, but then you don’t need to do the rest your life.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 1:15:16
Then just go unprocessed food and stay meat-centric or protein-centric, because that is where you’re gonna get most of your nutrients, not only macronutrients and protein, most of your protein deficient, but then micronutrients, which is where you’re getting that from, like red meat. Beef and lamb and then organ meats as well.
Bill Gasiamis 1:15:37
Yeah. What did you notice physically with your body, any changes in your body?
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 1:15:43
I got very lean, much leaner than I was. I also like, still tried to keep up all my weights, like lifting wise, and I never went down and actually increased in some weight. And then the biggest difference that I noticed was my energy levels. From the moment I woke up to the moment I fell asleep. I go to bed at like, 9 to 9:15. It wasn’t that at eight o’clock, and kind of dragging here just like watching TV or reading a book.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 1:16:15
And no, I was ready to go, I was paging through I was reading. And then I hit the bed. And I was out. And sleep has always been way better on a ketogenic diet, but like, the energy levels throughout the whole day, it was just great. I was just, you feel just like in tip-top shape the whole time.
Bill Gasiamis 1:16:36
Yeah. And your brain function and your kind of fatigue levels. What did you notice in your head?
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 1:16:45
With no fatigue, like I felt I was I was sharp with patients throughout the day, I could have a full day and again not have any issue, wasn’t like after lunch I was having that like post lunch fatigue. It was just, again, just constant sustained energy levels the whole day where I could accomplish more throughout my day.
Meat Over Vegetables

Bill Gasiamis 1:17:06
I can relate to all of that. So my first introduction into the carnivore diet was Dr. Jordan Pearson, and his podcast, which is something I listened to a lot. But the fact that he had been unwell for so many years. And what he did was take some advice from his daughter, who had also been very sick with a lot of autoimmune issues for many years. And what they did was start eating meat. And she also got him to the point of doing that, and then told him to also stop eating vegetables, which he did.
Bill Gasiamis 1:17:35
And he reports all these benefits from it. And I kind of just took that on board and left it at that I didn’t feel like I was any different. Well, I wasn’t the kind of guy who needed to go down that path. And then a mate of mine decided that he was going to do that, because he’s the kind of guy that does these types of things. He puts his body through these tests and checks them out. And he was telling me how amazing it was and that I should try.
Bill Gasiamis 1:17:58
And he was telling me that he feels like he was on and energy was, you know, very constant. And that he lost a lot of weight became very lean. And I thought, Well, I’m gonna give it a go as well. And that’s what I did, I gave it a go. And I lost five kilograms in about six weeks. And I would consider myself somebody who ate quite well, even before that, in that I was eating very, very low amounts of sugars, processed, added sugars, that types of thing.
Bill Gasiamis 1:18:31
Very small amounts of carbohydrates, like, but in the form of pasta, and bread, and any of that stuff very, very low. But I was kind of feeling a bit stodgy and didn’t really have the ability to shift the weight. I don’t exercise as much as I used to, because of my condition and my deficits and all that kind of stuff. So I was kind of sitting around this 80 to 85 to 86 kilogram mark.
Bill Gasiamis 1:18:57
And then I just did this for five or six weeks and immediately dropped five kilos and started to feel lighter, my brain started to feel on again, like the lights were just really bright instead of on, they were just really bright. And I started to notice all these benefits, my belly flattened out, I was sleeping better.
Bill Gasiamis 1:19:19
A whole bunch of things we’re just on and they were working better. And I’m reluctant to talk about it because I’m not a nutritionist. I don’t give advice on nutrition. And there’s a disclaimer at the end of this podcast that says, don’t take anything that me all my guests say seriously, do your own research and all that kind of stuff.
Bill Gasiamis 1:19:37
But for somebody who is recovering from a brain injury, me and for the experience I had with that diet personally, while recovering from a brain injury and I’m saying I’m 10 years into this process, but still recovering or not fully recovered. I don’t know what you want to call it. But I have never done anything that has benefited me.
Bill Gasiamis 1:19:59
So dramatically in such a short amount of time. And ever, that’s been as easy as this. And I thought I was going to get bored of it, and I wasn’t going to enjoy it. We’re talking about, we’re talking about the carnivore diet right now. I was I’m salivating just speaking about it.
Bill Gasiamis 1:20:18
And I’m thinking about when I’m going to the next steak, or I’m thinking about when I’m going to my next meal, and what it’s going to be and what it’s going to taste like it’s on what it’s going to smell like. And and it’s really difficult to do this at this time in our history.
Bill Gasiamis 1:20:35
And while everybody on the planet seems to be talking about how the meat industry is killing the environment, and the way to save the planet, apparently, is through becoming a vegan and never consuming meat product ever again.
Bill Gasiamis 1:20:50
And it’s like, because I don’t want to have a combative discussion with somebody. But because I don’t have the depth of knowledge to talk about this in detail. It’s really difficult to get really good information across to stroke survivors who’s who I care about the most. To understand that A they’re not putting the environment into danger by eating meat.
Bill Gasiamis 1:21:21
And B, they are doing themselves a service by not eating foods, like grains that are sprayed with 1000s and 1000s of different chemicals all over the planet to keep animals away from them to kill animals that are eating them.
Bill Gasiamis 1:21:39
And also, when you look at the low FODMAP diet, which is a diet that’s been designed for people who have irritable bowel syndrome, and all that kind of stuff, one of the main things that is 100% grain and definitely worth eating and okay to eat, which won’t inflame you or bloat you is meat.
Bill Gasiamis 1:22:02
And there’s a whole bunch of grains and cereals that are in the avoid category. And nobody’s connected the two and correlated the low FODMAP diet specifically says avoid a whole bunch of these things. And some of those things include almonds, pistachios, they include bread, cereals, pasta, plums, watermelon, apples, peaches, cabbage, onions, garlic, all these things are in the avoid eating if you have irritable bowel syndrome.
Bill Gasiamis 1:22:38
So clearly the inflammatory clearly they cause problems, but the only information that I’ve ever heard about them is that they’re good for you. If my mom says to me, you know, she said to me she ate some garlic. And I said, well, congratulations I don’t do that because it makes me feel sick. She just cannot comprehend how garlic can make somebody feel sick.
Bill Gasiamis 1:22:59
Now, mom’s 70 something and she grew up in a different time. And she has her own experience. And then she’s just using that to have a conversation with me about. But the reality is, is that I was consuming all those types of foods that I’m supposed to avoid my entire life, and they will make me sick my entire life. And because I thought that it was healthy for me, well, because the food pyramid that I learned at school was the thing that my nutritional information got sort of built around.
Bill Gasiamis 1:23:32
I used to go back and continue doing that. And to me, it reminds me of knowing that smoking is bad for you. And reaching into a packet of cigarettes, and lighting one up, even though you know, it’s bad for you and it’s causing you problems. That’s the extent of the problem with some fruit, vegetables and grains. That’s the extent of they’re making you sick, and you’re kind of decreasing the quality of your life just like a cigarette will decrease and you’re going back for it over and over again.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 1:24:01
100% I’m glad you had such a good response because obviously, you know, most people I would say have a decent response to the carnivore diet but obviously some can’t handle it. Some they can’t handle the fat they have to you know include some fruit or vegetable depending on it. But yeah, like what you just said about it’s something is this notion and so many people are kind of brainwashed because we’ve learned this our whole life that it is just this common knowledge thought that we can’t change.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 1:24:37
And that’s kind of going back into the whole cholesterol and, and saturated fat nonsense, right? We have to be able to have an open mind and to be able to look into this deeper and that’s kind of like what I was, you know, before I started I had an open mind I was just kind of like, let’s let’s research this a little bit. Let’s see what it’s about.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 1:24:55
And when it made sense. I was like why not try it? But for those people that are about the environment, I mean, you can just one really good book is called sacred cow, by Deanna Rogers and Rob Wolf. And they basically talk about the ethical, environmental and nutritional benefits of eating good meat. And so I think that is something that you can push listeners to, if they, if they’re questioning that.
Bill Gasiamis 1:25:29
For a chiropractor, man you’re hell of have a wealth of knowledge. And I am just so excited that I got to come across your Instagram and tell people about you via this interview and share some stuff with people via this interview, we’ve covered a lot and you got to listen to this episode more than once to grasp some of these concepts.
Bill Gasiamis 1:25:49
And then if something sparks your curiosity, just do a Google search for it, and read into it further. That’s definitely something that you are going to benefit from listening to this episode once again. Now the other thing I want to say is, go and check out Nick’s website, neurologicwellnessinstitute.com.
Bill Gasiamis 1:26:08
And I don’t really care if this is an ad we’re not paying for this is not that type of ad. But the whole purpose of this podcast is to bring people on here that are going to make a positive difference to stroke survivors. And I’m not running ads. And I’m not trying to promote anybody or anything, but I want to give people like a resource where it’s, you know, stroke survivor centered.
Bill Gasiamis 1:26:30
And basically what we’re doing is bringing you kind of hopefully out of obscurity or your corner of obscurity and just trying to let people know about you. So go to the website, check it out, understand who Nick is, so that you get a good feel for why I’ve got him on the podcast because I don’t want to bring people who are just going to run the usual line, which is, you should feel bad about eating this.
Bill Gasiamis 1:26:58
Or you should feel bad about trying this, you should feel good about doing anything that makes you feel good. And forget about what other people are telling you. We’ve taken advice, I have at least for around 40 years, from corporations selling me shit food, telling me that it’s good for me. That’s made me feel sick. And because they told me it’s good for me, I continued doing it, even though it made me feel sick.
Bill Gasiamis 1:27:22
That’s no different to what the cigarette companies were doing. And, people like Nick are worth listening to. So that’s it, man. That’s the ad. I’ve done it. And I know we weren’t supposed to do it. And it wasn’t really that. But I love bringing people like you on because I think you’re making an actual difference to people’s health and well being because your approach is completely different.
Bill Gasiamis 1:27:46
And I’m not saying that we don’t need medical people because without them I wouldn’t be here. So hats off to them, but their expertise stops in the hospital once you’re out of the hospital. That’s the gap that we need to fill people like you help fill it, thank you so much for being on the podcast.
Dr. Nick Schmidlkofer 1:28:01
No problem. Thank you.
Bill Gasiamis 1:28:02
Thanks for joining us on today’s episode. If you’re a stroke survivor with a story to share about your experience. Come and join me on the show. The interviews are not scripted. You do not have to plan for that. All you need to do to qualify is to be a stroke survivor or care for somebody who is a stroke survivor.
Bill Gasiamis 1:28:18
And if you are one of the fabulous people that help other people who are stroke survivors like Dr. Nick go to recoveryafterstroke.com/contact, fill out the contact request form. And as soon as I receive your request I will respond with more details on how you can choose a time that works for you and me to meet over zoom. Thanks again for being here and listening. I really appreciate you see you on the next episode.
Intro 1:28:41
Importantly, we present many podcast designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals opinions and treatments protocols discussed during any podcast or the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed.
Intro 1:28:58
All content on this website at any linked blog, podcast or video material controlled this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill gassy armas, the content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice.
Intro 1:29:21
The information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances or health objectives did not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose treat, cure or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional.
Intro 1:29:36
Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional your doctor or your rehabilitation program based on our content if you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional.
Intro 1:29:50
If you are experiencing a health emergency or think you might be, call 000 if in Australia or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance all go to the nearest hospital emergency department.
Intro 1:30:00
Medical information changes constantly. While we aim to provide current quality information in our content, we did not provide any guarantees and assume no legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, currency or completeness of the content. If you choose to rely on any information within our content, you do so solely at your own risk. We are careful with links we provide. However, third-party links from our website are followed at your own risk and we are not responsible for any information you find there.
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1 hr 31 min
October 17, 2022 (al)ONE: Thriving A Stroke – Stacie Broek
Stacie Broek wrote her book (al)ONE Thriving A Stroke in spite of her inability to remember what she has just read in a book a few lines ago while rehabilitating the aphasia she inherited as a result of a stroke.
Amazon: (al)ONE: Thriving A Stroke
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Highlights:
01:40 Introduction – Stacie Broek
03:10 The Initial Signs of Stroke
06:35 Carotid Artery Dissection
16:28 The Procedure
22:42 Regaining Control
29:24 Thriving A Stroke
41:33 Suffering From Agraphia
51:54 The Hardest Thing
54:56 Writing The Book (al)ONE: Thriving A Stroke
1:03:36 Raising Awareness
Transcription:
Stacie Broek 0:00
I finished my book last summer. So it took me about two and a half years. It is about the first year of recovery, but it’s not about my recovery. It’s about the transformation as we were talking about before. That’s happened in this first year of recovery.
Stacie Broek 0:18
It’s meant to tell people everything that you’re feeling is okay, that I see you that we all see you and don’t let the demons get to you because it’s okay to feel this way. It’s okay to you know, have your sister hang up on you. It’s okay to throw all your toys out of the pram and yeah, but it’s better the next day or not. You have to get back up and try it again.
Intro 0:50
This is the recovery after stroke podcast. With Bill Gasiamis helping you navigate recovery after stroke.
Bill Gasiamis 1:03
Hello again and welcome to episode 220 of the recovery after stroke podcast. If you’re a stroke survivor with a story to share about your experience, come and join me on the show. The interviews are not scripted, you do not have to plan for them.
Bill Gasiamis 1:16
All you need to do to qualify is to be a stroke survivor, care for someone who is a stroke survivor, or be one of the fabulous people that help stroke survivors overcome their condition. Go to recoveryafterstroke.com/contact, fill out the contact form, and as soon as I receive your request I will respond with more details on how you can choose a time that works for you and me to meet over zoom.
Introduction – (al)ONE Thriving A Stroke
Bill Gasiamis 1:40
Now my guest today is Stacie Broek who was living as an expat in Japan when at 46 she experienced a carotid artery dissection that left her with aphasia, the inability to walk, talk, read or write but that didn’t stop her from writing her first book (al)ONE Thriving A Stroke, which is available in Paperback, Kindle, and audiobook. Stacie Trousers. I mean, Stacie Broek, welcome to the podcast.
Stacie Broek 2:07
Thank you. Nice to be here.
Bill Gasiamis 2:09
Nice to have you here. So for the people that don’t know, why did I call you Trousers?
Stacie Broek 2:15
Yes, because my surname is Broek which is in Dutch trousers. So you could call me Stacie Trousers, Stacie Broek, Stacie Pantalon, whatever.
Bill Gasiamis 2:28
Yeah, I love it. So thanks for being on the podcast. Tell me a little bit about what happened to you.
Stacie Broek 2:34
Yeah, so I’m originally a Pennsylvania Country Girl. Although I haven’t lived in Pennsylvania for a few years, basically over 20 years. So my stroke happened in the center of Tokyo, where I was living with my family as an expat. I was playing tennis, two to three times a week, I didn’t have any real concerns about my health.
Stacie Broek 2:56
I was young, I was active I ate well, and then all of a sudden, my stroke happened on a Wednesday. And on the Monday, I was playing tennis, and I started to see these little spots where that ball should be. So I was reaching up to hit a smash, and all of a sudden, it went fuzzy and then white.
The Initial Signs of Stroke
Stacie Broek 3:16
And so I didn’t think anything of it. I thought maybe I just didn’t eat enough food for breakfast. And then on Tuesday, the same thing was playing tennis. And you know, I was seeing these little white spots where the ball should be. So then this debilitating fatigue came over me and I just wanted to take a nap.
Stacie Broek 3:57
So I took a nap on the couch. Waiting for my children to come home. And Tuesday night I drove them to the family club because I just win the car so I could have had that happened then. Luckily it did not. Yeah. Then Wednesday morning, I was getting ready to go to a PTA meeting, Parents Teacher Association meeting. And it was a really big meeting for us.
Stacie Broek 4:28
So we were presenting doesn’t matter what we’re presenting, but yeah, so then I woke up with a dead leg on my right-hand side. And I was like, what is this and what do I do? And I thought maybe I just slept wrong, I didn’t really know. So I just carried on with my normal routine.
Stacie Broek 4:28
And then all of a sudden this fatigue is the only way it was very debilitating. It was overtaking my entire being that I just needed to lay down. So I asked my husband to take my youngest to the bus. So I could just pause for a moment before I went to the PTA meeting. I never made it to that meeting, I sat down on my bed to just, you know, collect my thoughts.
Stacie Broek 5:21
And then I thought to myself, you know, I’m going to text Katya, my friend was meeting beforehand, just that it would be a little bit late, because I couldn’t meet her for coffee before the meeting. And then I was looking at this thing in my hand, and what was it and what was I trying to do with my cell phone?
Stacie Broek 5:44
And I just threw it away. I just threw it down, and I went to sleep. And that’s where my husband found me. He luckily, was working from home that day, in the morning. And he also gladly knew the signs of stroke. So he was looking at me, and I knew that he was there. And I knew that you wanted me to respond to him, he was saying, Stacie, Stacie, can you say something?
Stacie Broek 6:14
What’s the password for your mobile phone? And because in his stress, he was trying to call the ambulance from my mobile phone, not knowing my password, and the rest. And I knew that he was there. And he sounded like he wanted me to do something. But was in Fairyland.
Stacie Broek Had A Carotid Artery Dissection
Bill Gasiamis 6:35
So you had a carotid artery dissection?
Stacie Broek 6:38
Yes, yes, I did.
Bill Gasiamis 6:40
And was there any signs now thinking back, was there any signs perhaps, that maybe this thing was revealing itself earlier than that first time when you were playing tennis, and you were seeing what the spots in the sky?
Stacie Broek 6:59
I had some signs, but they were not on the left side of my body. So I had a muscle ache here. So had I been more pitbullish to get that figured out? Maybe I would have had an MRI and maybe they could have seen my dissection happening.
Stacie Broek 7:21
But everyone, well, my doctors here now back in Zurich. My doctors here say that if I had ever Carotid Artery Dissection again, I will feel it. So you don’t have to be afraid you can do everything. Not everything. But I can’t play tennis. But they say to me that if you have a Carotid Artery Dissection, you can normally feel this. I couldn’t feel it. So up until the two days before, there were no warning signs.
Bill Gasiamis 8:02
Just a strange ache on the other side of your body.
Stacie Broek 8:07
Yeah. So I’m normally an active person. I have three children as well and we were living in the center of Tokyo, so it could have been my exhaustion was on my carotid artery dissection. Or maybe it was just normal things.
Bill Gasiamis 8:26
Yeah, that fatigue that you described is going to be very familiar with the stroke survivors listening because I know about that fatigue. And everyone who’s had a stroke, knows about that fatigue, it’s seriously all consuming and there is no way of fighting through it, or pushing through it or making your brain work better, there’s just no way, the only way to do anything, is to rest a lot and to try and get some energy back in the batteries. So you can go again, but then they don’t last very long. And then you’re back in the same situation.
Stacie Broek 9:04
Yeah, absolutely. It’s an inertia that just takes over your being. Yeah, absolutely. There’s no reason to fight it.
Bill Gasiamis 9:14
Yeah. So you ended up in hospital? And then how long did you spend there? And what did they do to help you out?
Stacie Broek 9:21
Yeah, so I spent six weeks in a Japanese hospital. And they were brilliant because the Japanese really they’re so meticulous about everything and that really helped me to understand all of the language and the customs were definitely a barrier.
Stacie Broek 9:47
I find that I was lucky in my unluckiness, but I was only the 11th person in Japan to have this operation that I had to have, because my carotid artery is redundant, which means it’s curly or torturous. So they were trying to place a balloon in my carotid artery.
Stacie Broek 10:14
But because of the redundancy, think I can say that redundancy. They had to go to plan B, which was an experimental approach, because I was only the number 11 person to have this operation in Japan. All that to say that they didn’t see me coming, right.
Stacie Broek 10:34
So I was younger than most stroke patients, especially in Japan, because they’re an aging population. And I was foreign. And even though I still suffer, but I was suffering immensely from aphasia. And the only word I could say was 111, when I had those six weeks in the hospital, or the beginning of the six weeks, I also was making myself and my wants and needs very vocal for them, even though I couldn’t speak.
Stacie Broek 11:10
So they didn’t really know what to do with me. But they wanted me to go to stroke rehabilitation center, after my six week hospital stay. Even through my fog, I knew that that wasn’t for me. And I didn’t know what was for me at that time. I just wanted, you know, this was the first time.
Stacie Broek 11:37
So I started with speech therapy directly after my stroke, even before the second week of my stroke. Because in Japan, of course, speech therapy is done in Japanese. So I had to find it a practitioner who could take me and who had a time, and I’m still with Seth, my speech therapist, to even today.
Stacie Broek 12:04
Three and a half years beyond my stroke. Yeah, so the physiotherapy, I couldn’t walk I couldn’t, I couldn’t reuse the right side of my body. So they were very gentle and, and giving me the help that I needed. Thought they wanted me to go to a stroke rehab facility. And upon touring two of the leading rehab facilities in Japan. I knew it wasn’t for me.
Bill Gasiamis 12:39
It would be a little bit more difficult to have a stroke in a country where the language is foreign. And the barriers of language and customs and all that stuff are just so immense, because you need familiarity at that time to help make you feel comfortable in what they’re saying and understand what they’re saying and safe in some weird way. Just because you’re in a familiar environment, or you can have guests and friends come to see you. You were so far away from home, were you able to have anyone other than your husband there to see you to support you?
Stacie Broek 13:28
Yeah, so we were only in Japan for a year and a half before my stroke. But Japan was an amazing place to have my stroke in that way because all the expat community came together. And they lifted me up, they were my village, they were my sparkly people. They cooked for my six weeks that I was in the hospital they all brought so it was like a revolving door in our home with all the food that was brought everynight someone would make my husband and my kids food.
Stacie Broek 14:08
And that carried on, my stroke happened in February. That’s happened until the summer. So I was able to because I recovered it from home eventually. Yeah, so my friends and everyone just pitched in like they were my family. My mother came immediately to take care of the children to take care of me to take care of my husband.
Stacie Broek 14:40
But she could only stay I think for two weeks or something like this. So my girlfriend that I mentioned before Katya, she stepped in and her family stepped in. So that was much now I feel like Katya is much more than a sister. She’s much more than a friend.
Stacie Broek 15:03
She’s my girl, she’s my woman, she’s my go to. And I think that’s what the amazing or the lucky thing was about having it in Japan. Okay, we couldn’t be next to our family. But even if I had my stroke in Zurich, where is my home base? Now, I wouldn’t be next to my family. So that was really a lucky thing to have it there.
Bill Gasiamis 15:29
Yeah. Wow. That would have been much more relieving than being completely alone in that country, even though if it’s just your husband, because then you had someone help to deal with the kids and all that stuff. So it’s great to hear that the expat community came together and rallied around you guys and supported you guys that’s fabulous. Absolutely. Fabulous. So how long did you spend in hospital overall?
Stacie Broek 15:59
Six weeks, and then because of my stroke’s severity level, and because I still needed 24-hour care. After the six weeks we had a nurse come. She didn’t live with us, but she was there seven days a week. When my husband couldn’t be there, for sure. And you had to make sure that we still felt this level of safety because it was scary to go home, as you can imagine.
The Procedure Stacie Broek Had
Bill Gasiamis 16:28
Yeah, absolutely. So how did they get to that artery? Did they have to operate through your skull through the back of your neck? How did they actually get in there?
Stacie Broek 16:41
They went into my eye I guess. And it’s like, when you have an angiogram they stick it up through that.
Bill Gasiamis 17:01
The thing that wiggles up and goes past your heart and goes all the way up into the neck. And they addressed it from there. Okay, so I’ve had an angiogram. And they went straight into the brain. And that was intense experience to feel some of that and what was going on. But although it’s definitely invasive, it’s rather minimally invasive compared to opening up the back of your neck or your head. And then I imagine the recovery in at least in that stage is a bit quicker. Now, I see you shrugging and you can’t imagine people have brain surgery or anything like that.
Stacie Broek 17:48
No, I really can’t.
Bill Gasiamis 17:49
Yeah, so you don’t do scars, you can’t do blood and all that kind of stuff. You’re not that kind of person?
Stacie Broek 17:55
Well, no, I’m not. But my son recently had bad break playing football. And I had to clean his wounds and he had an open cast and I did it because yeah, that’s what you do when you love someone. Yeah, yu’re a mom so I don’t like it but I can.
Bill Gasiamis 18:17
I hear you. Well, it sounds like a couple of things went your way. You didn’t have to have anyone do anything to your hair or your head specifically, you had your family around. So a few Silver Linings there in your seriously difficult, unfortunate. I’m not sure what how you would describe the experience.
Bill Gasiamis 18:42
But for me, it was traumatic. For me it was challenging because I had to question my mortality and all that kind of stuff. Was there any of that stuff running through your head? Did you ever go there? What was it like for you to be supposedly fit in well, and then experience this life-challenging moment?
Stacie Broek 19:10
Yeah, so in the beginning, I had this, you know, I always thought that I would die some accident or something gone wrong, or, you know, skydiving, I would never skydive. But, you know, something beyond my control. You know, that’s what I thought. And now I had a Carotid Artery Dissection, which caused a stroke, which was near fatal, and I should have died.
Stacie Broek 19:41
And so then you had all these questions right? You, don’t know. And so the first few months were hard that way because of this insecurity that I felt and then the first year was a little bit painful. But I worked through this with my speech therapist Seth was really instrumental in because also when Japan you don’t have any, counselors or case managers so he was like everything to me, because he also suffered a brain injury in his 20s.
Stacie Broek 20:32
He’s my age, so we had this camaraderie. So it was really special. So every time I was particularly afraid, or anytime I was panicking, then we would just write down the worst thing that would happen if the worst thing, the worst thing of the worst thing happened. What was that? So I can remember.
Stacie Broek 20:57
To give you an example. About three months from my hospital say, I went back to the doctor for regular scheduled MRI. And my neurosurgeon told me that they would have to perform another angiogram to figure out what’s happening because it wasn’t quite clear.
Stacie Broek 21:22
And for me, this felt like a death sentence. Right? So I was really and now it’s like, okay, you can, you can survive it right. But at this time, it felt like the world was going to collapse, because last time I went for an angiogram, this happened, right.
Stacie Broek 21:37
So yeah, so Seth said to me, Well, what is the worst thing that can happen? I wasn’t afraid of dying, once you survive something like this, then you can understand death a little bit better, right? So I wasn’t really afraid of dying. But I was really afraid to have it happen in front of my children.
Stacie Broek 22:09
And to make them experience this. So that was what I was ultimately scared of. So we put measures into place to make sure that yeah, not to make sure because you’d never sure. But yeah, that wouldn’t happen so easily.
Bill Gasiamis 22:34
Yeah. To minimize the possibility.
Stacie Broek 22:38
Yeah.
Regaining Control
Bill Gasiamis 22:42
Did that give you a little bit of control back? Did you feel like at least you were controlling the process going forward?
Stacie Broek 22:49
Absolutely. And that’s what I tried to do. I just tried to, even today, I’ve tried to see the silver lining. It’s not always possible. Sometimes you wake up and you’re just you should just go back to bed, for sure. But I really try to see all the Silver Linings because I’m alive. And let’s celebrate it, you know?
Bill Gasiamis 23:13
Yeah that’s a good start. Oh, absolutely I know how you feel. So your husband, how is he doing? He had to experience and witness all of this. And he would have felt completely helpless. Because he’s not in control of A. what’s happening to you, and even though he would definitely want to help you and he’s trying to help you. He can’t make you better. He can only do those peripheral things. How is he? How did he experience this? What has he told you about his version of the experience?
Stacie Broek 23:55
Yeah, so my husband is a very gracious dutch guy. I mean, he loves life and loves living it and this experience A. has made him more well, not cautious it’s brought his loving life not down a little bit, but he’s more aware of how perilous our precious life is.
Stacie Broek 24:28
We were in Japan for his job. So he was able to get on with his work in a shadow perspective. But I think it says something to him. So my surgery was 10 and a half hours long. And at a certain point when they were trying to place a balloon into the carotid artery, they came to him, and they said, look, it’s not working.
Stacie Broek 25:02
Can we have your permission to try an experimental approach? And they explained what they were going to do to me. And I can’t imagine what this did to him because he’s a happy-go-lucky guy. I mean he’s just that way. And he said, a very important question.
Stacie Broek 25:30
He said, would you do this? If it were your wife? And Dr. Ichisan said, Yes and I would also do it if it were my daughter. And then he was permitted to enter the surgery to see me, hopefully not the last time but could be. I don’t know what that did to him, or does to him.
Stacie Broek 25:57
If you would have bumped into him on the streets the weeks after my stroke, he wouldn’t even be able to say, stroke you he would have to say, she’s in the hospital for… He couldn’t get it out, he was in mental block for him. So but, you know, little by little, because he also was my primary caregiver.
Stacie Broek 26:23
So it does something to anyone. Also to Johan. I think also, going through this life-changing experience, shines a bright spotlight down on every one of your flaws, both as an individual and as couples, of course. And I wasn’t easy. The first year, I’m not easy anyway. So he’s been through a lot.
Bill Gasiamis 27:00
Congratulations for admitting that you’re not easy. While we’re admitting things, so I’d like to also admit that I’m not easy. But I’m bloody doing my best to get better all the time. And I don’t know if I’m succeeding or not. It’s like happiness being better. You don’t become it, you’re always striving to be it.
Bill Gasiamis 27:27
And you try and live it. And you just head that way. So I was motivated to be better after the stroke, of course, because I wanted to turn up better at my house at my family events, everywhere I wanted to turn up at work. And that’s because I thought I might not make it to 40 because my stroke was at 37.
Bill Gasiamis 27:55
So I had to mend a lot, I did a real big, deep internal search for answers or clues as to what I might be doing wrong or where I might improve. And that’s what I worked on, so that I could at least gain some type of improvement and then show the kids and my wife and whoever, that there was this change.
Bill Gasiamis 28:25
This shift in me that I had intended to get better and I had these intentions, right? This ability to prove that you’re hard or difficult in you know, this personal way like humans are and can be. Is that something that you were aware of before the stroke? Was that a new awakening that you’ve had?
Stacie Broek 28:54
Absolutely. I was always the person that said, Oh, the card’s in the mail or, you know, scoffed at waitresses, or you know, I didn’t see that thought of me. I was a career girl, I was going for it. And I just thought that was how you lived your life. So I fully agree with you.
Thriving A Stroke
Stacie Broek 29:24
I can I’m nodding my head in connection with you because after my stroke it was in December, I had a conversation with my sister from Pennsylvania, and it didn’t go well. It ended up with her slamming down the phone and cutting off all ties with me.
Stacie Broek 29:48
And that’s what’s the final straw let’s say I went deep inside myself like you I was collecting everything that I could I went into a shell. I think the bright side of my stroke was that that moment, I realized that I’m hurting people. People that I love people that I don’t know, you know, everyone, so I did a lot of work on myself.
Stacie Broek 30:31
And yeah, some days I do it well, I get up, I write in my journal. I do my mantras, you know? And everything’s bright, shiny survivor. But some days, I do it crappy, lousy, crappy job of it. But it’s a work in progress, like you said, and yeah, I have some models, if you can say that, of how I want to live my life. And I just strive every day for that.
Intro 31:08
If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. Like, how long will it take to recover? Will I actually recover? What things should I avoid in case I make matters worse?
Intro 31:25
Doctors will explain things that obviously, you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask. If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you it’s called the seven questions to ask your doctor about your stroke.
Intro 31:52
These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition. And they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery. Head to the website. Now, recoveryafterstroke.com and download the guide. It’s free.
Bill Gasiamis 32:11
Yeah, that’s a good thing to strive for. I just want to try and see if I can understand what was it specifically that shifted for you? Yes, it was the event of the stroke, and all the things that came with that. But was there something that you gained? Was there an insight or some knowledge that you gained that allowed you to see the fact that you were this person that you now noticed wasn’t the nicest all the time or was short with waitresses? Is this something that made you see that because of the stroke? Was it because of the stroke that something occurred and made you aware of that?
Stacie Broek 32:55
I think it was a series of events, I think, my friends, the expat community also chipping in it was showing me this kindness. My best friend from New York, flew over. My mother flying over. That was a series of events. And then probably culminating, I can remember actually my best friend from New York.
Stacie Broek 33:23
She came just before the summer. And I was really stressing because A. she was coming. That was a major stress for me. And then I had just a week before we were going to fly for the first time back to Switzerland. So I was very stressed. And I know that you guys know this, but because it’s a stress that you just can’t do anything about right?
Stacie Broek 33:54
How do I pack my bags? How does this process work? But Cara bless her she asked me this question, what are you stressed about? You seem really stressed. I said, I don’t know how to pack my bag, I don’t know how to pack the bags of the children.
Stacie Broek 34:13
She’s sat one night and packed everyone to go to Zurich. So I think that act of kindness that you just have to ask and someone would help me. I mean, oh my God. So yeah, so I think there was a series of kindnesses, and then culminating with my sister, just hanging up the phone, calling me a bitch and a bully and saying, I don’t want anything to do with you, or your family. I’m done. You know, and that’s probably the catalyst. I think it was a series of events ending.
Bill Gasiamis 34:49
Did you also because now I’m going to describe me tell me if you relate to this. Did you also notice yourself as being the person that if that happened to somebody else, the stroke thing, you may not have been as forthcoming and as supportive as other people had been to you. Is that what you realized? Because I realized that about me.
Stacie Broek 35:15
Yeah, I mean, it’s funny because I’m exactly the opposite. I’m a good friend if you need me. But if you don’t need me, I might not call you for months or years. I’m that kind of friend. So I’m a friend in need. But that every day.
Bill Gasiamis 35:39
Small stuff?
Stacie Broek 35:40
Yeah it was lost on me. So I’m trying to be better that way. Because if you need me, I’ll come everywhere for you. But if you don’t need me, meh.
Bill Gasiamis 35:55
Interesting. I think the people who don’t express that they need you, need you more. That’s what I’ve found. I’ve got some friends who I really need. And because I really need them, I give them the space. So I don’t become overbearing on them. And I let them come to me, from time to time, I let them know that I’m here.
Bill Gasiamis 36:22
I don’t judge them because they’re busy, etc. And perhaps they haven’t been through a moment like we’ve been through and their awareness of the situation is different. We’re both very close to each other. And we really, truly respect and appreciate each other.
Bill Gasiamis 36:38
But I describe him as being elusive, elusive to be able to pin down in one location. So we can do things. And his partner will say to me, let’s organize the catch up. And I’ll say I’ve been trying to for months, but he’s elusive. I can’t pin him down. He makes it sound like he’s always doing something and busy.
Bill Gasiamis 37:02
She says we hardly ever do anything. And I realized that it’s just the way he’s processed. And I don’t know what that is. And I don’t know what’s stopping him. So I don’t know how to approach it any other way. But I’m giving him space, right? However, that’s how he was before the stroke. That’s how he always was, so it’s not new.
Bill Gasiamis 37:27
But what was different is when I had the stroke, he was there. Out of nowhere, he was there all the time. When I needed him. He picked me up, he decided to create his own swimming rehabilitation for me. And he took me to the local swimming pool once a week for about 10 weeks or something.
Bill Gasiamis 37:49
And we had a hot sauna, we had a swimming session, we had all these sessions. And he’s not a rehabilitation person. He’s an Excel, Spreadsheet kind of guy. So it was kind of like, who is this person? Where are you coming from? And of course, I’m so totally appreciative of that, that now, I want to be around him, you know, and I want to have him near me.
Bill Gasiamis 38:19
But I don’t want to choke him with my love and affection. So I give it to him in short doses. Because also he finds it difficult to accept praise. When I say that you’re responsible for a lot of my recovery. He finds it difficult to deal with that I don’t know why.
Bill Gasiamis 38:47
But it’s strange, right? So they’re the kinds of things that happened to me that made me think about, would I have done the same thing for him? Because I think, even though he was unwell, I would have judged him that he was elusive.
Bill Gasiamis 39:04
And I think I might have been standoffish and just let him do his own thing. Instead of rally around him to the extent that perhaps, you know, hopefully, he never does, but may have needed me. So I also started to relate to people, when I had to spend time in a wheelchair that really opened my eyes to the people who were previously invisible to me.
Bill Gasiamis 39:35
The people who I thought were just sitting down because that’s how naive I was. I thought, well, they’re just sitting down. I mean, it can’t be that bad. I mean, my God, you know, what a stupid conclusion to reach. But that’s how naive and how unaware of other people’s struggles and challenges I was I spent about a month in a wheelchair.
Bill Gasiamis 40:04
And I struggled to do everything for a month. And then I was lucky that I didn’t need to remain in a wheelchair. But that whole month, I was thinking of every other person that I’ve come across, that was in one that I neglected to be empathic towards, they’re big life-changing moments, aren’t they?
Stacie Broek 40:37
Absolutely, absolutely. It’s the same thing for language. Because when I was living in New York, I didn’t understand why people would move to a country and not speak the language. I didn’t understand it at all. Now, I’m living in Switzerland. Can I speak the language? Japan, you know, so it’s also this. You see other people’s struggles you see their side? Yeah, it’s very eye-opening.
Bill Gasiamis 41:15
In amongst all of that, so you’re recovering from aphasia. You’re in speech therapy. And somehow you’re doing a blog. Now, is putting words on the screen or on paper easier for you, then speaking them? Or is there some difficulty with that as well?
Stacie Broek Suffered From Agraphia
Stacie Broek 41:33
Yeah, so I also suffered from agraphia, but I’m a writer, oh I wasn’t a writer, and I still am a writer. So writing is my passion. This is what gets me out of bed in the morning, so to lose that. And the doctors secretly told my husband, that I should look for a new profession, because I’m definitely not going to be a writer again in the hospital in Japan.
Stacie Broek 42:04
So I’m really lucky that he didn’t tell me that until after my first book was the second draft of my first book was done. So I’m really happy. So I suffered with a graduate too, so that my speech therapist, I can also remember the day that we were on, it was the interview with that. And it was virtual, and I was with my husband.
Stacie Broek 42:36
And talking to each other. My husband told that I was a writer, and I was so mad at him. I’m like, you can’t say this and I couldn’t say it. But I was like, you don’t and my body language was all erratic. And I was very mad at him because I couldn’t even speak. So how can I write anything?
Stacie Broek 43:03
But Seth bless him. We spend two hours a day, each day, seven days a week on my writing. So maybe one word, one, maybe one sentence, an hour would come out of me. And then little by little bit by bit, paragraph by paragraph, you know, I started to write now I still can’t read.
Stacie Broek 43:31
I can, but by the time I get to the end of the sentence, yeah, it’s a little bit blurry. What happened in the beginning of the sentence, although I just published my first book. So that’s funny, right? But Seth will read it back to me.
Bill Gasiamis 43:51
That’s fascinating that you have struggle, remembering what you’ve just read, but you can write a book, and you can finish a sentence or a paragraph. And they also had the Aphasia aspect of it. So somehow in there still the fire for writing a books burning, and it’s still enabling you to somehow navigate all of these complex things that you took for granted previously as being easy.
Bill Gasiamis 44:24
And it must have been one of the hardest things to do is write a book as far as when you did you compare? Were you Did you ever do oh my god, I’m terrible. Why am I doing this? Because I used to be so good at it. Did you ever compare yourself and make yourself feel bad about the fact that writing now had become more challenging than it used to be?
Stacie Broek 44:49
No, I look at it different way. I thought to myself, thank God for my stroke because that was my input. Just to actually write my book, you know, A. it gave me the subject matter. But I don’t know if I would have written my book if I didn’t separate my stroke. I think it was my catalyst, it was my impetus to actually do it and get down and say, Hey, I’m going to do this. And if I didn’t suffer my stroke, or survived my stroke, I probably would still be hemming and hawing about what subject matters to write about you know, so it’s funny.
Bill Gasiamis 45:35
I like that, because I can relate to that, because it’s exactly the same thing. I set it on a couple of podcasts ago, I think on the last episode, or the one before I said, to the person I was chatting to, that, I always felt that I had a reason, something to say. But I never said much, because I didn’t have an expertise that I could embrace and speak about as an expert in my own right.
Bill Gasiamis 46:03
And that I therefore couldn’t relate to other people. And therefore, my speaking for the sake of speaking, like a lot of people do these days, wasn’t really going to be joyful for me. But it also wasn’t going to reach the right people. It wasn’t going to impact people. And wasn’t going to make the it wasn’t going to be purposeful. So why do it? Why what’s the point?
Bill Gasiamis 46:28
And the stroke made it possible for me to find that group of people, your group, is my grip and the grip that other people belong to who have had a stroke of him previously on this podcast, you listen to this, and now on my voice, is lending has a purpose towards bringing us together, helping us understand helping us relate helping us not feel alone.
Bill Gasiamis 47:01
And, and then also really important, which I didn’t realize was going to be really important was helping other people like you get their story out and share their story, even if it’s not a book, even if it’s not a podcast, even if it’s just, they’re never going to do whatever again, but they came on and for what and once they expressed it to other people who completely understand them.
Stacie Broek 47:25
Yeah, absolutely. I can only fully agree with you.
Bill Gasiamis 47:32
And the book wasn’t ready to come out until you had to have this life experience and, and even though you live the life of a mom of a super productive person, our wife, our sister, all these things, even though you did all of that, you perhaps were lacking life, meaningful life experience, and therefore the words that you’re going to put down, didn’t feel like they were genuine or something.
Stacie Broek 48:03
Absolutely, I found my calling a somehow I found what I was, okay, I was meant to be a wife. I was meant to be a mother or whatever. But more than that, for me, I found what my purpose is, you know, I really am passionate about my writing, but also making sure that other stroke survivors can get up the courage every day to fight.
Stacie Broek 48:35
Because someone needs to hear that right. And that’s my passion is to make sure that we don’t lose any, you know, the doctors, the neurosurgeons are fantastic at saving our lives. But what happens afterwards, right?
Bill Gasiamis 48:54
Yeah. Love it. So do you happen to have a copy of the book there that you can hold up to the camera? The book is called Alone Thriving a Stroke, and it’s available on Kindle and on Amazon, all that stuff, and audiobook on Audible. awesome.
Bill Gasiamis 49:30
In Australia, if I bought it, it’s going to cost me like 20 bucks, which is really good value. And a little bit of the blurb goes like this. It says the frank unapologetic memoir about a woman’s struggle to start again after a, devastating stroke.
Bill Gasiamis 49:51
Stacie was living the expat dream for their children in central Tokyo private school, house and travel back home all paid for until the morning when her carotid artery spontaneously ripped, causing blood to pull in her artery wall. Upon waking from a 10 hour surgery, Stacie couldn’t walk, talk or fight herself. Yeah, pretty dramatic. And now you’re walking, talking. And I imagine your husband’s not feeding you anymore?
Stacie Broek 50:24
I can’t use chopsticks, anyway. But I can feed myself.
Bill Gasiamis 50:31
What was the hardest thing that you had to go through personally during the crisis? And perhaps even after that, what was the hardest thing that you had to overcome?
Stacie Broek 50:53
You know, I was very, very determined. I didn’t like being in a wheelchair. So I would grab anything my IV Stand, my mother, the hospital, the things you have in a wall to help people like me.
Bill Gasiamis 51:15
Handlebars.
Stacie Broek 51:16
Yeah, that one. And I was so motivated, I would walk to the bathroom when no one was watching. So I was super motivated. The hardest thing? Some things I did without now looking back, like I showered alone in the hospital. I mean, that’s for me. Now, looking back. I’m scared about this. I actually would do this by myself. So I think, the scariest. I don’t know, the scariest thing. I don’t know, that’s a good question.
The Hardest Thing For Stacie Broek
Bill Gasiamis 51:54
The hardest thing so it’s not something that stands out that was so hard for you that you had to fight to overcome. That was hard for you to experience or to deal with, or did you just take it sounds like you took it all in your stride? Which is fine. The answer doesn’t have to be that there was something.
Stacie Broek 52:12
I think the thing that in terms of what I don’t, what I can’t do that I did before, I’ve genuinely just forgot it, because I’m not working on it. So I can’t do simple math. Like someone asked me. How long did you live in Switzerland before you moved to Tokyo?
Stacie Broek 52:38
And I knew that we arrived in Switzerland at 2004. And I knew we’d left in 2017. But I couldn’t. And I still can’t do the math. So. But it’s not important to me to work on this. So I really left all these things behind. I think now I know, now that I’m talking about it. The hardest part for me still today is like, last night, we went out to celebrate my birthday it’s not my birthday, but it was a late celebration of my birthday.
Stacie Broek 53:14
And all the chatter from everyone. If I know what to say it doesn’t come out. And that is a feeling of connection that’s lost. And we’re human beings we’re meant to connect. So I think that is the hardest part for me, although I don’t look at it oh, poor me. I mean, I have a very positive attitude about it, because it’ll come back in some way.
Stacie Broek 53:44
If I work on it, which I am working on it, but that for me, is the hardest. Yeah. Thanks for asking. Now I yeah, that’s for me is the hardest part. Like, even being at dinner with my family, if I want to say something, and they’re brilliant. They’ve been rock stars through the whole thing. But they will sit and wait for me. And then it won’t come out. It will come out.
Stacie Broek 54:09
And they they’re amazing. And sometimes if I look at them, they know, okay, I can fill in the blanks, or if I don’t look at them, you know, they know. But it’s hard. And people don’t know how to react to that either. Right? So yeah, so it’s this feeling of connection. I still connected because everyone is then I have very few skeptics. If I do have some skeptics that I run into, yeah, whatever. We all have them. I find myself very lucky. But keeping up with the conversation or interjecting and adding to the conversation sometimes listening is better.
Writing The Book (al)ONE: Thriving A Stroke

Bill Gasiamis 54:56
So you’ve become a really good listener as a result. That sounds like you love to get involved with the conversation and let people know what you think. They appreciate that. They understand. I meant to ask you. Before I went on to this part, I meant to ask you actually about the book and what is it about? Tell me how it came to be? And how long did it take to write?
Stacie Broek 55:26
So, I finished my book last summer. So it took me about two and a half years. And it is about the first year of recovery. So it’s detailed out week one, week two. But it’s not about my recovery. It’s about the transformation, as we were talking about before, that’s happened in this first year of recovery.
Stacie Broek 55:57
It’s meant to tell people, everything that you’re feeling is okay, that I see you that we all see you and don’t let the demons get to you. Because it’s okay to feel this way. It’s okay to you know, have your sister hang up on you. It’s okay to throw all your toys out of the pram and yeah, but it’s better the next day or not, you have to get back up and try it again.
Stacie Broek 56:31
When I first went to one of my scheduled MRI appointments back in the hospital in Japan, I asked my doctor, how long would it take to get back to normal? And the answer was wishy-washy and whatever. And then I realized that normal is not a thing.
Stacie Broek 56:49
You know? So I’m not, I’m not looking to recover 100% I’m looking to transform into Stacie 2.0 and see where that leads me. And yeah, I was very sad to not get everything back. I thought to myself, yeah, I want to do this, I want to do that. But actually, no, I just want to experience it and to enjoy the transformation. So that’s what my book is about long story short, this transformation that I’ve experienced.
Bill Gasiamis 57:27
That’s lovely. Because if you go back to normal, what was before, you’re going to be that person who didn’t really pay attention to other people who was rude or abrupt or whatever you were that you didn’t realize was a negative trait of yours, that you excused because you made it the other person being wrong or the problem. And that’s not a nice place to go back to this is a better place.
Bill Gasiamis 57:57
You went through all this stuff. You’re at a better place. Everything about it is better. And I’m speaking to you, but I’m hoping that people listening and watching hear me speak to them. And they are getting that story. And going back to “before” or going back to “normal”. That’s a path to a less evolved version of you even though you feel injured that place before that was a lesser evolved version of you, and you’ve grown, even though you feel injured from the thing that happened in your head.
Stacie Broek 58:43
Absolutely. I think, you know, we all are not the same person that we were before our strokes, we’ve all evolved. Even my husband, for instance, he has evolved. We all are evolving. So why would you want to go back to where you were three years ago or five years ago?
Stacie Broek 59:06
So I think that’s how I look at it. That we are all evolving every day, every month, every year. So when you say back to normal, what is normal then? Right? So, you know, normal is A it doesn’t exist, but B you know, if you strive to be normal, I think it’s a losing battle, right?
Bill Gasiamis 59:38
Yeah. And you’re de-evolving. And, yeah, we don’t want to be doing that. We want to be gaining some wisdom from somewhere in our lives. Well, yeah, he’s an opportunity to practice wisdom and your philosophy and ask some questions you never asked before that. Maybe you did. Know you needed to ask, but now they are necessary because you can discover some stuff about yourself that you didn’t know, was possible.
Bill Gasiamis 1:00:10
Just look at me and Stacy, I’m doing a podcast writing a book, you’ve written a book. And these are things that my 37-year-old self before the stroke, had no intention ever of getting completed, started. There wasn’t even a conversation in my mind. Because what I was doing was, I was living in fear, and I was afraid of being myself and expressing myself at the risk of somebody judging me and then me not knowing how to deal with judgment.
Stacie Broek 1:00:43
Yeah, absolutely. I can only agree.
Bill Gasiamis 1:00:47
And stroke kind of gives you that opportunity to go. I don’t give a shit what people think anymore.
Stacie Broek 1:00:58
Yeah. For sure I sometimes I struggle when I was writing my Instagram title “Writer” I’m like, am I a writer? Can I say that? Then you fake it until you make it right?
Bill Gasiamis 1:01:16
You have to identify as a writer to write if you don’t identify as that you can’t sit down and write now. At some stage, it’s going to feel foreign and weird and new. It’s like new shoes, you put them on, and it’s like a bit strange. But then later, they become part of your foot. And you don’t notice them?
Bill Gasiamis 1:01:35
That’s how the identity molds it molds from being the person who you labeled yourself as before, you labeled yourself as a mum as an intrapreneur as a wife, as a sister. And now you’re just adding another new label to your bow of beautiful things that you are and do.
Bill Gasiamis 1:01:53
And why not be a writer, and get it out of your head? If you’re thinking about being a writer, and you’re listening to this, get it out of your head that a writer has to be published by a big publishing house or have a big deal or whatever, will have sold certain amount of books.
Bill Gasiamis 1:02:09
Absolutely not. A writer is somebody simply who writes things. And that’s it. If you identify as a writer. And if somebody asks you what kind of a writer you are, you can elaborate then you don’t have to elaborate until that point in time. And if they ask you what have you written you can say I’ve written my memoir that’ll do.
Stacie Broek 1:02:27
Yeah, exactly. For sure I fully agree.
Bill Gasiamis 1:02:33
That could be one of the most important things you’ve written, you know, your memoir.
Stacie Broek 1:02:37
Yeah. Absolutely. Now I have to add the title motivational speaker. So that’s my next goal.
Bill Gasiamis 1:02:50
Beautiful. I love that that’s a beautiful way to move from previous self, new self, new identity, transforming identity and into this other space, you know, public speaker, because it does come with the book is necessary to promote the book, it is necessary to appear on podcasts to do all these things.
Bill Gasiamis 1:03:16
Because that’s how people will relate to you and then receive your book and understand why it’s written and get to be able to, you know, relate to the words in those pages. They can’t do it, if you write it, put it on the bookshelf, and never release it and never tell anyone about it.
Raising Awareness
Stacie Broek 1:03:36
Absolutely. It’s scary right?, it’s so scary. I just had a video interview with Philips healthcare. And that was one of the most scary, I think I would even be scared if I could get my words out properly. They came to my house, they had a camera crew and whatever. And it was all for the world stroke day, which is happening at the end of this month. And it was really difficult for me to get my words out. But it’s so I could tell my story, to raise awareness and all these things, but it was very scary.
Bill Gasiamis 1:04:20
Yeah, absolutely. It’s the first time and every first time is a bit weird, but then it gets easier and easier. And I remember also having been involved in some campaigns here for the Australian Stroke Foundation. And again, they turned up with camera crews to my house and all this stuff. And me and my wife were at home going what the hell’s going on? There was 40 people in our house, it’s a little house, doesn’t fit for the people. But they were there. And they filmed for seven hours to get 90 seconds.
Stacie Broek 1:04:55
It was intimidating.
Bill Gasiamis 1:04:58
Yeah, so much equipment, hundreds of 1000s of dollars of equipment. And this guy, Bill. It was never the guy that did that stuff. I don’t do that stuff. I didn’t get on TV and raise awareness about stroke or anything. I don’t do that stuff. It was scary and fun. So much fun and the feedback was great.
Bill Gasiamis 1:05:25
Because, as you know, the people who don’t get strike or who are around you that know you had a stroke, but they don’t really understand. Of course, they want to see the video, once you tell them, you’ve done it. And that helps raise Stroke Awareness directly to the family members who you want to protect. And that’s how you do it in this unique way.
Stacie Broek 1:05:47
And the ball starts rolling absolutely.
Bill Gasiamis 1:05:52
Yeah. Well done. Stacie. I really appreciate you reaching out. Thank you so much for reaching out and being on the podcast. If people wanted to find out a little bit more about you, where would they go?
Stacie Broek 1:06:08
So staciebroek.com is where my hub, so I have everything there. You can also visit me on Instagram, or LinkedIn. Stacie Broek as well. Not Stacie Pants, Stacie Broek. Yeah, and if you want to watch the video that we just talked about, you can watch it on the world stroke organization or Philips website. But that you have to wait until October 29. Or you can also see it on my website.
Bill Gasiamis 1:06:50
Brilliant. We’re going to definitely share all your links to people, they can go to recoveryafterstroke.com/episodes, find your podcast episode, I think it’s going to be 220. And they can find the links in the show notes and then they can connect with you there. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. I really appreciate it.
Stacie Broek 1:07:11
Thank you. That’s really nice. Thank you.
Bill Gasiamis 1:07:14
Thanks for joining us on today’s episode to learn more about my guests including their links to social media and other pages and to download a full transcript of the entire interview please go to recoveryafterstroke.com/slash episodes. If you’d like to support this podcast, the best way to do it is to leave a five-star review and a few words about what the show means to you on iTunes, and Spotify.
Bill Gasiamis 1:07:39
If you’re watching on YouTube comment below the video will like the episode and to get notifications of future episodes. Subscribe to the show and hit the notifications Bell sharing the show with family and friends on social media will make it possible for people who may need this type of content to find it easier.
Bill Gasiamis 1:07:56
And that may make a massive difference to someone that is on the road to recovery after their own experience with stroke. Thanks again for being here and listening. I really appreciate you I appreciate the comments and the support See you on the next episode.
Intro 1:08:09
Importantly, we present many podcast designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast are the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed.
Intro 1:08:26
All content on this website at any linked blog, podcast or video material controlled this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis, the content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing, it is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice.
Intro 1:08:49
The information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances or health objectives. Do not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose treat, cure or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional.
Intro 1:09:04
Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional your doctor or your rehabilitation program based on our content if you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition, please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional if you are experiencing a health emergency or think you might be, call 000 if in Australia or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance or go to the nearest hospital emergency department.
Intro 1:09:28
Medical information changes constantly, while we aim to provide current quality information in our content. We did not provide any guarantees and assume no legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, currency or completeness of the content. If you choose to rely on any information within our content you do so solely at your own risk. We are careful with links we provide however third-party links from our website are followed at your own risk and we are not responsible for any information you find there.
The post (al)ONE: Thriving A Stroke – Stacie Broek appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.
1 hr 11 min
October 10, 2022 The Benefits Of Exercise In Stroke Recovery – Rachel Keele
Rachel Keele has a master’s of Arts in Educational Psychology and is a certified mobility trainer and she believes that her good overall health before the stroke had a positive outcome on her stroke recovery.
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Highlights:
01:59 Introduction
02:28 The Cause of Stroke
11:46 Not Getting Enough Information
19:32 Now Is The Time!
25:32 Acceptance
28:40 Stroke Is The Best Thing That Ever Happened To Me
36:03 Exercise In Stroke Recovery
43:51 Everything Is Connected
50:25 Finding A Community
1:00:03 Importance Of Nutrition
1:10:09 The Hardest Times
1:18:33 What Stroke Taught Rachel Keele
Transcription:
Rachel Keele 0:00
But the stroke experience really I think maybe intensified the trajectory towards health and wellness that I had. And I’m still me like, I still love sitting on the couch and I love eating pizza and whatever, like that’s still me. But the benefits that I get out of health and fitness are just so great now.
Rachel Keele 0:21
So I had become really outspoken about it. It was something that I talked about a lot on social media and it kind of created this platform and my stroke experience was all a big part of that, like, that’s another reason I wouldn’t change anything because it’s been in that sounds like a stepping stone to where I am now.
Intro 0:42
This is the recovery after stroke podcast, with Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after stroke.
Bill Gasiamis 0:55
Hello, and welcome to episode 219 of the recovery after stroke podcast. If you are a stroke survivor with a story to share about your experience, come and join me on the show. The interviews are not scripted, you do not have to plan for them. All you need to do is be a stroke survivor or care for someone who is a stroke survivor, or help people who are stroke survivors.
Bill Gasiamis 1:14
So if you go to recoveryafterstroke.com, fill out the form there. And as soon as I receive it, I will respond with more details on how you can choose a time that works for you and me to meet over zoom. Also, I would love to hear from people that may have stroke-related questions so I can compile some and make some shorter episodes that give you my perspective on your burning recovery questions.
Bill Gasiamis 1:37
Of course, they cannot be specifically medical in nature as I’m not a doctor. And I cannot comment on your situation. But they can be about other stroke-related matters. If you go to recoveryafterstroke.com/contact once again, this time select the “Ask Bill A Question” in the subject field leave the question for me, and when I have enough of them, I will make an episode dedicated to your questions.
Introduction

Bill Gasiamis 1:59
Now. My guest today is Rachel Keele. Rachel has a Master’s of Arts in Educational Psychology and is a certified mobility trainer. And she believes that her good overall health before the stroke had a positive outcome and played a massive role on her stroke recovery. Rachel Keele, welcome to the podcast.
Rachel Keele 2:20
Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.
Bill Gasiamis 2:22
My pleasure. Thank you for being here. Tell me a little bit about what happened to you Rachel.
The Cause of Stroke

Rachel Keele 2:28
Oh, a little bit about what happened to me. So back in March of 2016, when I was 29 years old, I had a little mishap at the CrossFit gym that I worked out at regularly. I was like, trying to do something stupid. I was like trying to balance on something in a handstand and I fell and hit my face on a weight and hyperextending my neck and basically it like clamped the arteries shut.
Rachel Keele 3:01
Of course, I didn’t know that. And so I was just like really thankful I didn’t break my nose at the time and I did a workout. And the next day I came back and I did another workout and then after that second one, like maybe you know 36 hours later or something my neck started to hurt really bad, popped a couple ibuprofen and was going on with my day went to work.
Rachel Keele 3:26
And felt a little bit better. I mean, it was I was at work for probably six hours or so. And then all of a sudden I’m like at the copier, making some copies and the room started to spin. And I thought I was gonna pass out I laid down on the floor and just like waited to blackout and it never happened.
Rachel Keele 3:47
And I got very nauseous, started throwing up, and my husband came and took me home and everyone thought I had food poisoning. They’re like, what did you eat for breakfast? And I was like, leftover beef Shawarma. So they’re like, Oh, she’s got food poisoning.
Rachel Keele 4:04
But I was like, I’ve grown up like six times now and I don’t feel any better. So he took me home. And then probably like, an hour after the initial like vertigo and nausea and stuff. I lost like all the feeling on my left side, like head to toe. No control or whatever.
Rachel Keele 4:22
So I knew nothing about strokes at that time that didn’t like I mean, it seemed serious. And so we went to the ER. And they seem to immediately know like, they immediately started a stroke protocol, which now I feel very fortunate for because I’ve connected with a lot of people since then my age, who at the hospital were misdiagnosed and never got the treatment that they should have.
Rachel Keele 4:45
So I feel very lucky in that sense. They were aware of what was going on and they immediately like started doing scans and saw that there was a blockage there and told me that but even then, like I just knew so little I was like, Oh yeah, I’ve got a blockage in the vertebral artery and it meant nothing to me. Like, can you guys fix that? So, yeah, they did the treatment and the clot buster, all that stuff. Yeah, go ahead.
Bill Gasiamis 5:11
I was just gonna say is ignorance bliss at that time?
Rachel Keele 5:15
Yeah, kind of, I’ve had so many people be like you must have been so scared? And I’m like, honestly no, I was at the hospital and I’m like these people know what they’re doing and it never occurred to me, the first time anyone said the word stroke was like, the next day, you know, I spent the night in the ICU after they did you know, the treatment and everything, and they were coming in and checking on me.
Rachel Keele 5:43
And already some of my feeling and motion was starting to return. So they’re like, oh, you should be fine in a few months. And I was like, what? But even then I’m just like, okay, like, I don’t know what’s going on. And then I think like the following evening, someone was like, Oh, well, what happened was after I had an MRI and all that stuff, they’re like you had a stroke.
Rachel Keele 6:08
And I was like, what? I was so confused. In fact, I think what they said was, you experienced an infarction, and I was like, excuse me, and they’re like, oh, like a stroke. And I was like, like a stroke or a stroke? And they’re like, you had a stroke. And I was like, okay. So I mean, that’s kind of how it all happened.
Bill Gasiamis 6:32
The technicalities of stroke, so varied, like there’s so many ways to get to oxygen being depleted from the brain cells. There’s so many ways to get there. I didn’t know for probably nearly two and a half years, two years that I actually had a stroke, and the reason they didn’t tell me is because mine was a hemorrhagic stroke.
Bill Gasiamis 6:55
It was as a result of an AVM. And the AVM is an arteriovenous malformation, which is technically a tumor that’s benign in the head. And because the bleed was inside the tumor, which was inside the head, I technically didn’t have a stroke, or a hemorrhagic stroke, I had a bleed within a tumor.
Bill Gasiamis 7:15
And it’s like, but the symptoms all mimic the stroke symptoms, and I feel spaced out, I didn’t know who my wife was I didn’t know my name, I couldn’t walk, talk all the things that I experienced with a two and a half years before brain surgery we’re all stroke-like symptoms.
Bill Gasiamis 7:37
Somebody gives me a label, just so I can work with it and not feel like I don’t belong anywhere. I already feel like I don’t belong anywhere, because I’m a 37 year old who’s had a stroke. And nobody I know has ever had a stroke. So I don’t know what to do with that information, let alone the fact that for two and a half years, almost, I don’t know that it could be considered a hemorrhagic stroke.
Bill Gasiamis 8:03
Like wow, guys, thank you, somebody. It’s so weirdly liberating knowing what it was that I had. Now, I was like you oblivious to the seriousness of the whole thing at the beginning, because my left side eventually went completely numb after I ignored the numbness for seven days.
Bill Gasiamis 8:31
And I was like you. I know it’s serious. I’ll get with my chiropractor but it’s not like that serious. I’m not going to die because of this. It’s not going to leave me, you know, disabled or unable to work or anything. It’s just numbness, you know, it’s no big deal. I was kind of like you oblivious. And it was good to be oblivious a little bit at the beginning. And then shit got real three months later. And it’s like, this is not what I thought it was gonna be. Sounds like you also had that similar type of experience.
Rachel Keele 9:09
Yeah, it was, it was similar in that way I was. So it was in the cerebellum below the brainstem. I didn’t have like any of the confusion or any of the language issues. And actually, the morning after, when they were like running the stroke protocols, they already done the scans and all that stuff in they were having all these specialists come in.
Rachel Keele 9:32
They first person to come in and tell me that they ran the stroke protocol. So I guess I did hear that word before. They told me I had a stroke. But she was a speech therapist, and she came in and sat by the bed and she’s like, I’m here because they ran the stroke protocol. And I was like, Oh, really? And she was like, yeah, like you’re talking fine you probably didn’t have one that’s what she told me.
Rachel Keele 9:56
I was like, yeah, I’m fine. Then later when the physical therapist comes in to get me out of bed and I can like barely walk, then I’m like, oh shoot, what’s going on? And even then, they were still very positive. I was very, very active and fit at the time. And so, I mean, I still am, but I was very active. They’re like, Oh, you’re very healthy. Like, I think that’s going to keep your prognosis good.
Rachel Keele 10:28
You’ll be back to normal in a few months. And I was like, I’m not sure what this means. And I also don’t think they know what normal means. Because I was training every single day, I was lifting weights, I was coaching other people that was like, part of my job was like, training other people.
Rachel Keele 10:44
And I’m like, I don’t think they realize like, what normal would be for me, but yeah, So when I first came home, I came home, like probably two days later, and definitely very difficult to move around. And they had told me like, you just need to rest you need to give everything a rest, like you’ll heal faster that way, okay.
Rachel Keele 11:05
But no one told me to like not go for rides in the car. And so I had a hair appointment like the next day, and it was like, 45 minutes away, like in another state, honestly. And I told my friend, I’m like, I feel horrible. But I gotta get my hair done. Like, I just want to feel good.
Rachel Keele 11:31
So she drove me to this hair appointment. By the time I got there, like all that movement from the car, I like, got there, went straight to the bathroom and threw up, and they did my hair. And then I threw up again. And then like, came home threw up again. And then I couldn’t walk anymore.
Not Getting Enough Information
Rachel Keele 11:46
And then I was like, okay, I knew I had a stroke that is very serious. But then like, I kind of had this realization of how delicate everything is. I was like, Okay, I have to take this like really seriously, I don’t think they gave me enough information.
Rachel Keele 12:08
So I’m like, forever grateful that they diagnose it properly. But at the same time, I’m like, man, they basically just sent me out the door, like an occupational therapist came that morning before I left to make sure I could like, brush my teeth, and tie my shoes. And like when they were all like, yeah you’re great or whatever. And meanwhile, I’m like, this is a very delicate situation. So yeah, I don’t know, there were some realizations for me for sure.
Bill Gasiamis 12:33
It sounds like they downplayed it, because of your appearance. Because you looked healthy, for you looked well, and they got sucked in. And their quickness to get to that is something that I hear from time to time through other people that I’ve interviewed, which is like, we’ve got some guy who really can’t do much can’t move can’t push himself around or can’t do anything, can’t toilet himself, can’t brush his teeth.
Bill Gasiamis 13:03
And it’s like, you compared to that person, you look pretty good. Why don’t you go home and sort yourself out. And we’ll put our energy and our resources into that person. And then because these people who deal with stroke, who helped us be alive and overcome this, to an extent, have never had a stroke, they’ve got no idea what to do, how to prepare, what to say.
Bill Gasiamis 13:30
And even if they did have some kind of clue or idea, having never had a stroke, it’s the kind of working blind, they’re not really working with the person. They’re working with the problem. And the problem is for me, it was the bleeding blood vessel.
Bill Gasiamis 13:46
Alright, we’ll take it out, and then we’ll send you home. And then for you, it’s like, we’ll clear the blockage and then we’ll send them home. And it’s like, huh, there’s a little bit of a gap there between the stuff that’s happened and the part that now I have to do at home.
Bill Gasiamis 14:02
I drove after brain surgery in November 2014 I drove probably within about six weeks and I did the same kind of trip as you I shouldn’t have done it but no one told me not to and that was enough for me because I wanted to and I needed it. I could have caused an accident I could have caused myself an injury, somebody else in injury.
Bill Gasiamis 14:37
I think what they’re missing is an advocate somebody who’s had a stroke to say all right, now you’re about to go home. Let me tell you some things and you can call me if you’re not sure about something, but they don’t and I don’t get why they don’t but it’s the same in most of the western world, you know, that’s the same in the other side of the world where things are done slightly differently perhaps.
Bill Gasiamis 15:07
There is a lack of ability for people to communicate to loved ones and the stroke survivor what this means long term, ongoing rehabilitation and recovery, and you suck them in, you look healthy, because of your appearance that led them to a conclusion. And they made that hastily by the sound of things. And they do that often. And I don’t blame them, but it’s wrong.
Rachel Keele 15:37
Right? Well, and that’s why, I love following you. And so many other people that have had stroke experiences that that was crucial for me those like several weeks after my stroke, and just being at home and recovering, like, I think maybe like four or five days after I had it, like it occurred to me.
Rachel Keele 15:59
Oh, like, there must be people on Instagram and Facebook that are like, there must be groups for this and stuff. And yeah, I just, like started looking around and found so many people our age that had gone through similar things. And you’re able to like, Yeah, talk about symptoms about recovery, I’ve had a lot of people reach out to me, and just, you know, it’s, it’s hard in some ways, because, like you’re saying, like, the experiences, I mean, the way the strokes happen are so unique.
Rachel Keele 16:30
And then the experiences of each person are so unique, the recovery is so different, but at the same time, like some of those things are so common, like the headaches were some of like, the worst part of the recovery for me, and I know that’s, like super common with a lot of people like, I got home and I was very, very tired, and I couldn’t walk very well but you know, like you’re resting.
Rachel Keele 16:51
And then after a couple of weeks, like all of a sudden, the headaches were just and I’m not someone who ever got migraines or anything like that before. And the headaches were so overwhelming, I would just like, lay in bed and cry, because I’m like, I can’t even rest or whatever. But then talking to other people online, it’s like, okay, this is normal, like the doctors will be like, I think that’s not, like a lot of times you’re like, Is it normal? Or are they just like, not sure and they don’t want to say.
Rachel Keele 17:18
But other people would be like, oh, yeah, absolutely. And that lasted for about six weeks for me and whatever, you know, like, yeah, that the advocate at the hospital would be so great. But at the very least, I’m really glad I found a community of people, you know, that you can bounce things around with and be like, oh, yeah, okay, me too.
Bill Gasiamis 17:41
That’s the whole reason why I did the podcasts because I didn’t have anyone in my suburb that I could go to that share the experience with me. And I couldn’t find them elsewhere and the resources to get to them and them to get to me. And if they’ve had a stroke, like, it’s resource-heavy recovery, it’s like, you can’t overcome all those barriers, and then also be recovering from a stroke, just to get to see somebody that you can communicate with.
Bill Gasiamis 18:10
So that’s the whole purpose for the podcast, you know, headaches, vision issues, you know, balance issues, skin sensation issues, muscle tightness, is it normal? Every person that I spoke to around the hospital kind of said, well, we’re not sure if it’s related, but it might be, you know, everything was we’re not sure but it might be.
Bill Gasiamis 18:37
I never had any of these things beforehand, you know, does it mean I’m having another stroke? Or is it just something that it’s gonna be that way? Or even if it won’t get better is it like, can you guide me a little bit? Can you give me some information that allows me to just have less anxiety of over the every experience that I have.
Bill Gasiamis 18:58
Because we were going to the hospital, because I had three hemorrhages over two and a half years and then brain surgery. I had a lot of experiences, like I was having another hemorrhage that weren’t hemorrhages. So I was in the hospital every second month, or three weeks after the last time I went there, or, you know, in the middle of the night because we couldn’t ascertain because we didn’t have enough information to make a proper decision about what I was experiencing.
Now Is The Time!

Bill Gasiamis 19:32
And then it was just like, stuff it anything that happens we’re going to the hospital every time. What I would suggest to other stroke survivors listening, if they don’t have enough information, and if they feel sort of worried or concerned about it in their gut or wherever. That’s like just go don’t worry about it. And that’s the only thing you can do.
Bill Gasiamis 19:55
I mean, you’re unwell, you’re going through something serious you’re recovering from it. Now’s the time to be concerned and to be certain about what’s happening. Now is not the time to second guess yourself and go “well, they didn’t really say it’s anything so I’m going to ignore it” you know, now’s not the time.
Bill Gasiamis 20:15
So yeah, I really appreciate the fact that I’ve been able to find people that are like me. And now there’s 5000 people on Instagram following me. And it’s like, wow, that’s amazing. Like, it’s great that they’re there. And they are my, they are helping me on my road to recovery. And so are all the people who have decided to come onto the podcast, you guys make it.
Bill Gasiamis 20:41
And, I’ve been at it for from 2012 and I’m still not healed, I’m still not recovered. I’m still not overcoming this yet. And I don’t know if there is a goal for me to get to the end of this. It’s like happiness, you just be happy. And then you just keep striving forward. And it’s like, I need to talk to this regularly. And my wife doesn’t need me to talk to her regularly about it everyday. And you guys help me do that you know, it’s great.
Rachel Keele 21:20
Yeah, I can relate to some of that as well. Like, in the months afterwards, especially at first, my husband was so supportive and so amazing, and so helpful. But at the same time, there were certain things that I felt like I like when I got to the point of wanting to reintroduce certain like, physical activities, or whatever.
Rachel Keele 21:50
And I’m like, no, I know how I feel. And I know to be careful, but he was so concerned. And he’d be like, don’t do that. He honestly, as an experience, I think in some way that was much more like traumatic for him. Because for me, I’m just like, you know, I’m just like, along for the ride, I didn’t feel scared during the experience. And I think by the time I realized how serious it could have been, I was kind of on the other side of it.
Rachel Keele 22:17
But for him, it was kind of like, I think she almost died, I almost lost her. So like, very traumatic for him in some ways. And so when I’m like, you know what, I’m going to try a handstand today. He’d be like, don’t do that. So there were certain things like we would get into some arguments at that time, and certain things that I kind of had to be like, you know, I’m going to be careful.
Rachel Keele 22:42
But I think there’s certain things like we probably shouldn’t talk about. Like, I just kind of have to do this for me. And then I’ll tell him about it later. But then also, yeah, you’re dealing with so many sensations and feelings and emotion. Like, I can’t just like dump that on him all the time either. He needs a break and talk about something other than strokes, for sure.
Bill Gasiamis 23:06
Yeah, right. And, I think this is the beauty of the podcast, I make it so that people can talk to me about strokes and not burden their loved ones to an extent you know, and also counseling, I went to counseling, I spoke about it with my counselor, I still do.
Bill Gasiamis 23:24
It’s part of every day of my life, and it’s not going to change and that’s how I deal with things, I incorporate them into my world, instead of trying to disassociate from and pretend it never happened and leave it aside, I incorporate it and I gained control over it in the best of ways by sharing podcast episodes. And by speaking with other people, that’s the only way I can gain control of it.
Bill Gasiamis 23:52
If I try to control how my body feels, I can’t do that, because it’s not going to change. I can make it worse by eating incorrectly. Or by not by not being physically active and by being sedentary but I can also make it better by nourishing my soul getting things out of my head you know and just getting the whole system operating and working rather than just sticking to head in the sand kind of stuff you know, it doesn’t ever work always catches up with you that stuff.
Bill Gasiamis 24:27
So I’ve shifted from having being dependent on my wife as the main person to go to for chit-chatting about stroke, to just mention it to her if I’m having a bad day. Look, I’m just having a bad day and it’s not about because of the stroke I’m having a bad day. I’m just having a bad day I need a rest and then it just chill out, we need to do nothing today, go on your own that type of stuff, you know.
Bill Gasiamis 24:53
And that’s more general run-of-the-mill kind of conversation but for me, it’s because of the stroke. But I don’t reference the stroke as the cause just so that she doesn’t have that constant this stroke thing, you know, 10 years later. She’s supportive. And in every way, don’t get me wrong. But she’s over the conversation because she has never had a trauma like that. Thank God that she has to reconcile and live with and manage and any of that stuff.
Acceptance – Rachel Keele
Rachel Keele 25:32
Yeah, I hear that for sure. And I also feel like, yeah, I definitely relate to what you’re saying about kind of like this, bringing it into your life instead of disassociating out like, I think it was, I don’t know. I felt like it was a really powerful experience. And I was kind of like, proud to make it part of my identity.
Rachel Keele 25:56
I’ve always really liked feeling different or unique. Maybe everyone does, but I’m kind of like, oh, this is like a thing that like so few other people have experience. Like, I’m kind of special now. But I also just felt like it was a really empowering experience and I felt like it toughened me a lot.
Rachel Keele 26:19
Like, when I’m when I’ve dealt with certain things since I’m like, I’ll never be as uncomfortable in as much pain hopefully as I was, I mean, I’ve never had kids. But like that was just like one of the hardest experiences physically for me. So now like, it’s kind of a reference point, like, well I did that. So I think I’ll be okay. And I don’t know, like I’ve told many, many people, whenever I talk about it, honestly, I’m like, I would never change a thing.
Rachel Keele 26:52
Honestly and I say this as someone who has been able to experience a lot of recovery, like, I’m very privileged with my experience in so many ways. But I would never, undo that experience, or not go through that if I could do it all again, I would do it all again, because I think I’m a stronger and also more sensitive person now like, another thing that I think came out of that experience was having that sort of thing where so many people reach out to you and support you and you realize, like how meaningful that can be.
Rachel Keele 27:30
When someone you might not even know very well just like offers words of encouragement or stop by or whatever. And I have been kind of a person who like, you know, I might see somebody’s going through something on social media. But if I don’t know them very well, I don’t say anything. You know what, something like that. And now, I try to be like, way more intentional about that stuff.
Rachel Keele 27:47
Like, even if I don’t know you very well, I want to offer that support, because I know how much it meant to me. So I just like who I am better now. Because of the experience. It just grew me in so many ways. And I think it’s strengthened my marriage in so many ways. And so, yeah, I mean, it’s an amazing thing, that something can be the hardest part of your life, you know, but bring, there can be so many good things that come out of it.
Rachel Keele 28:13
I’m a person of faith. And so I believe that like, God doesn’t like design trials for us. But he can take anything negative that happens to us and utilize it for our good. Like, that’s how I believe he operates. And I feel like 100% That’s what happened in my life. Like, it was a really difficult experience possibly could have killed me, but has been so positive in the long run.
Stroke Is The Best Thing That Ever Happened To Me
Bill Gasiamis 28:40
Well, I can relate to that. I’m not shy about bragging about the fact that I’m writing a book that’s called Stroke Is The Best Thing That Ever Happened To Me.
Rachel Keele 28:52
It’s perfect.
Bill Gasiamis 28:54
And it’s like 10 chapters long, and I just finished chapter seven. And when I researched the book, I interviewed stroke survivors who thought the same thing. And we have a lot of things that we did in common that got me to the 10 chapters. I didn’t design the book, they designed the book, because in the conversations that I had with them when I was modeling how they got two Stroke is the best thing that happened to them, they all said the same 10 things that I said it was ridiculous.
Bill Gasiamis 29:28
And then it’s like okay, so here’s a path forward that perhaps we can move people from stroke being the worst thing to stroke being the best thing. And that’s not to take away from your experience, the seriousness, your deficits, what you’re left, with what you had to overcome, what you had to grow from, but I went to personal development courses for about 10 years before my stroke.
Bill Gasiamis 29:53
They were nothing compared to the development of my person after stroke and the empathy that I grew, and the understanding that I developed, and the sympathy that I am able to express without being friggin stupid about being sympathizing for the wrong things.
Bill Gasiamis 30:13
And what it taught me I can overcome and how I can still use my instincts to guide my life forward. Because my brain doesn’t work. It’s switched off. So I can tap into my gut instinct and my emotional intelligence and move forward. You know, I’ve grown there. And it’s like, how could the bloke who was as thick as I was, before stroke, had he kept going on the same path that it was, how would that person ever have grown to the extent that I have doing podcasts and interviewing people from all over the world and writing a book and stuff that had never been on my horizon that I had never, ever contemplated being possible for me.
Bill Gasiamis 30:58
And I had so many negative, even though I portrayed this confident person, I had so much self-doubt and negative self talk, that things that were possible for the average layperson were not possible for me because I wasn’t that good. Or I wasn’t that guy, or I didn’t identify as that person or sissies do that, or a whole bunch of stuff, you know, that was just stuck with me from my schooling, my teenage years, my old friends, or whoever they were my social groups.
Bill Gasiamis 31:42
And it’s like, I think now, I’m going to actually question every single thing, everything that you say everything that I say, everything I say about myself, everything I say about you, everything, I think about you everything I feel about them. And it’s like, it’s all bullshit, I made it all up, I’m gonna make it up again, this time, I’m going to make it up so that it’s actually meaningful, and useful and helpful and fantastic. And it’s like, I think I can make up that story. I’m way better at making up stories in the positive because in the end, I feel good about them. So I’ll do some more of those.
Rachel Keele 32:24
That’s amazing. No, I love that. And I can’t wait to read your book, that’s gonna be so cool.
Bill Gasiamis 32:29
It’s the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do is write a book. It’s the hardest thing ever. And I’ve got a book coach. And she’s been dragging me along for 18 months to try and get me over the line. And she keeps checking in with me. And I keep ignoring her because I don’t want to say to her, I haven’t written anything for a month. And she doesn’t care. She loves me anyway, she just wants me to come on board.
Bill Gasiamis 32:54
But the last chapter I just finished, which is something I want to talk to you about, specifically, the last chapter, I finished is Let’s Get Physical. And it was one of the hardest chapters for me to write because of the immense benefits that exercise has for the brain.
Bill Gasiamis 33:13
And especially in recovery, and we’re talking about exercise, which is literally, if it was you know, if I can break it down to the smallest type of exercise that some people might be pulling out weeds from the garden for 20 minutes. Even that. Tell me about your career in I think it’s wellness or health and wellness before the stroke. And then I want to talk about how that evolved later after the stroke, tell me how it started.
Rachel Keele 33:45
Yeah, so I always tell people that I’m a reformed couch potato, and that if I can become an active person that anyone can, because my natural state is just like, yeah, couch potato, like, boy, I am very happy just watching TV, like sitting around eating something. I have, like a corner of my sofa that’s like worn in because I always sit there.
Bill Gasiamis 34:15
Like Homer Simpson.
Rachel Keele 34:17
Yeah, exactly. I’m Homer Simpson. But before, I mean, I’m very average in the fact that I like was always like, wildly insecure about my physical appearance, it was a very normal thing and like, never happy with my weight. And I have kind of like I posted a lot on social media recently, actually, about my history of disordered eating and things like that.
Rachel Keele 34:49
But a few years before the stroke happened, because I told you it happened at the gym. Well, I mean, the accident happened at the gym. I had done some different seems like I’ve tried doing some triathlons and stuff. And just like nothing really had me working out regularly. And then I tried out CrossFit and just kind of fell in love with that we had some friends open up a CrossFit gym here in our community. And I started doing that all the time and became a coach after about a year or so doing CrossFit.
Rachel Keele 35:18
And so, I mean, that was probably, my stroke happened little over two years after I had kind of gotten into CrossFit. So at that point, I was like, exercising all the time, like six days a week, you know, I’m there for a couple hours a day, like very active, and I was coaching people. And then the stroke happened. And that really like, I feel like I would still be an active person.
Rachel Keele 35:47
But that really kind of like solidified how important that had been. I often was like, man because it was just like accident induced, and they don’t really understand the type of like, where the arteries and my artery is still occluded back there, like it’s still stuck together.
Exercise In Stroke Recovery

Rachel Keele 36:03
And they’re like, yeah, it just happened sometimes, like, it’s not supposed to happen. But to some people, it just happens, right? It could have happened a few years earlier, when I wasn’t nearly as healthy or fit. And that kind of like, rung in my brain for a long time. So I’m like, man, like, the importance of what we do with our physical bodies is just so great.
Rachel Keele 36:25
Like, in some ways, I feel like exercise saved my life. So it really became a mission to me, I already kind of had, you know, like I was coaching at that time. And so it just became a bigger deal to me, I transitioned jobs at that point. I’ve worked on a university campus for the last 11 years or so. And I was working in the residence halls and I transitioned to where I was overseeing a health club in one of our residence halls.
Rachel Keele 36:51
And I oversaw a lot of programming that happened like educational programming that happened the residence hall. So I started speaking a lot about fitness and health, and how you know, I’m like, You guys think you’re invincible, because you’re in college, but like, you could be in a car accident tomorrow, you could be injured or get sick, or ill, like anything could happen to you at any time.
Rachel Keele 37:17
And the healthier you are, the better your outcomes are gonna be like, that just kind of became my mantra. I started teaching group fitness on our campus, we built a big, beautiful facility back in 2019. And I was an instructor there along with my regular responsibilities on campus, and then COVID hit. And the managers for that facility left and I was like, kind of just the person around.
Rachel Keele 37:42
But over those few years, I’d become a personal trainer, I was doing that out of our home, we built a gym in our garage, I became a nutrition coach, and I just tried to like do new certifications every year. The stroke experience really like I think, maybe intensify the trajectory towards health and wellness that I had. And I’m still me, like, I still love sitting on the couch. And I like eating pizza and whatever, like that’s still me but.
Intro 38:13
But if you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. Like how long will it take to recover? Will I actually recover? What things should I avoid? In case I make matters worse, doctors will explain things that obviously, you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask.
Intro 38:38
If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation. Stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you it’s called the seven questions to ask your doctor about your stroke.
Intro 38:58
These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition, and they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery. Head to the website. Now, recoveryafterstroke.com and download the guide. It’s free.
Rachel Keele 39:14
The benefits that I get out of health and fitness are just so great now. So I had become really outspoken about it. It was something that I talked about a lot on social media and it kind of created this platform and my stroke experience was all a big part of that like that’s another reason I wouldn’t change anything because it’s been in that sense like a stepping stone to where I am now.
Rachel Keele 39:38
So at the beginning of COVID I was kind of like moved over to take management of our facility or wellness facility on campus. And then a year after that they gave me the responsibilities of what like our wellness programs on campus like for the campus so I’m Director of University wellness for our Andrews University of the campus that I work at and I manage our fitness facility, I still instruct classes because I love doing that.
Rachel Keele 39:38
So sometimes, like, if you look through my social media, you’ll see I post about that, like the different classes that I teach. And I do nutrition coaching with people, I do food demos, and all that kind of thing. Like, that’s my life now.
Bill Gasiamis 40:23
It sounds like you had life experience to make what you were doing before the stroke, actually valuable, if not more valuable than before. So like, it seems like the trajectory took like it spiked, you know, your curiosity about how to apply health and wellness to stroke recovery.
Bill Gasiamis 40:50
And now you’ve got life experience to wrap, a purpose to wrap that wellness around, you know, and it’s like me, I always had the opinion that I should be talking to people and advising them of stuff and letting them know how amazing some of the things are that I know, but I never did it because I didn’t really have life experience to wrap it around. I had just years on Earth where I was doing the exact same thing for the same amount of years.
Bill Gasiamis 41:19
But then one day, I had this strike, and it’s now okay, I think I found my purpose, the reason I had the desire to express myself and share my point of view and hopefully learn from other people’s point of views and then create a conversation around this thing that I am experiencing in my life.
Bill Gasiamis 41:43
I think the reason for that not taking off yet was because I hadn’t had the thing that needed to happen for me to then make it possible for me to bring my wisdom into a conversation that was relevant to other people, because I didn’t know how to relate to other people.
Bill Gasiamis 42:03
And the last thing that I was going to relate to other people about was stroke. Obviously, I couldn’t possibly have done that before. But now that I do, I get you and you get me and it’s like, no one’s ever got me before. And that’s why what I do works there because they get me and they don’t take what I say the wrong way.
Bill Gasiamis 42:25
Or they don’t take it in a way where they don’t know how it applies to them previously, or so. I don’t have anything in common with this guy to know how to apply what he’s saying to me. Whereas now it’s like, I have a lot in common with this guy. I know what he’s saying what his guests are saying. And I know how to apply that to me and how to make a part of my journey recovery my story.
Bill Gasiamis 42:47
So this is kind of like an opportunity for me to tell people also that are listening and watching this saying like, maybe you’ve just found something to use to be the platform for that thing that you’ve been putting off that you haven’t done yet. And that sounds like what happened to you. It became bigger than just going to the gym and not being a couch potato. Now there’s other things that are wrapped up in it.
Rachel Keele 43:17
Yeah, I think it was like, at that point, it was like a hobby. And then after my stroke experience, it was a complete, like, passion and life course. Like that’s, that’s where I’m headed. And I I definitely like talk to people on social media mine about, you know, recoveries, but so much of what I do in my setting is talking to people about preventative because most of the people I interact with or work and whatever else, of course, have never had a stroke, you know?
Everything Is Connected – Rachel Keele
Rachel Keele 43:51
And so, like, prepare yourself for whatever happens, like hopefully you never have a stroke, but probably you aren’t going to get through life without something serious happening, you know, and even if it’s not a physical thing, like you were saying, physical activity has such a huge impact on the brain. And in a college setting right now, anyone that works with young people will tell you there’s like a huge mental health crisis.
Rachel Keele 44:19
I mean, it’s around the world. But like, and with all age groups, but definitely for young people. And what physical activity can do for your mental health is just crazy. You know, yes like brain health, like physiological health, but then also just how you think and feel and I mean, your hormones are a big part of that exercise has a huge impact on your hormones and your hormones have a huge impact on your brain function.
Rachel Keele 44:48
And you know, like, everything is connected like, like your exercise can improve your sleep, which can improve your brain function which can improve and motivate how you exercise like it’s just all connected. And the cool thing about that, like, yes, like a problem at any one area can cause problems and other areas. But an improvement in any one area can create improvements in all other areas as well. Like, I can’t overstate how important movement is. And of course, healthy eating and all that. But yes it’s so important. Please move everybody please move.
Rachel Keele 44:48
Yeah, you just explained the outline of the book, basically, is what it said. And one of the hardest things was I was trying to order the chapters of importance. And it’s like, it’s impossible to say that mindset is the most important thing. And, but I’m putting that first. Because if somebody is completely sedentary, and they’re doing nothing because of a stroke, but I can influence their mindset, then we got a good chance, start there.
Bill Gasiamis 46:02
And I know that’s going to do exactly what he said, it’s going to influence that, that, that, and that, and then that. And then we’ve got a good positive spiral occurring, you know, and then it was like, but nutrition is really important in and if they’re just sitting down, and I can get him to eat really well. Maybe, if I could just get him to wait really well, and they can’t move or do anything that’s gonna do that.
Bill Gasiamis 46:21
And then it’s like, that can go first. But it’s not going to go first, I’m going to put that third because I reckon if they have emotional intelligence, that’ll be pretty good. Like, if I can get them to go to their emotions, and feel them and talk about them and express them. And, you know, that’s going to lift their mood and their spirit, and they’re going to feel lighter, and that’s going to make their muscles work better. And that’s going to help them sleep better and be less anxious. And my God, that could be the first chapter.
Rachel Keele 46:50
Maybe instead of a book, you should just have like, sections that come in like a container. And then you can just, anyone can order them how they want. Because yeah, you’re totally right. Like it could start anywhere. And I tell people this a lot too like, people will ask how do I get motivated to start exercising or eating right or whatever. And I’m like, you can’t always wait for motivation.
Rachel Keele 47:17
Sometimes it hits and then like, run with it. But other times, you literally just have to make a conscious choice about doing something and you do it. And then you feel really good afterwards, like or the motivation grows from there. But you may not be able to get into the right mindset one day about getting up and making like positive choices.
Rachel Keele 47:41
But you may just be able to force yourself to get out of bed, you might not feel good about it or like have good thoughts about it, you might hate every second of it initially. But if you get up and get going, sometimes it will grow from there. Like just pick where you can start, just pick one.
Bill Gasiamis 47:57
Choose one. Yeah. And what I love about what you said is we’ll call it force yourself to exercise when you’re not motivated to exercise. You will love it later but what’s really important is you need to pay attention to later you need to be aware that later happened. And you need to be aware that later happened because of earlier. And it’s like join the two like if you feel great, it’s because you went to the gym or you exercised or you pulled weeds out or whatever it was, yeah, your bodies are aching, and you’re whinging about it.
Bill Gasiamis 48:32
But something’s changed and shifted in your mind and in your spirit and in the way that your clarity has returned for a moment, it’s probably because of the exercise. Don’t just put it down to something that I experienced, then I don’t know what it is. It’s the exercise because exercise increases dopamine, it inclusive increases serotonin, it increases it decreases anxiety decreases blood pressure, it increases every positive thing marker in your body.
Bill Gasiamis 49:02
And it decreases all the negative ones. As soon as you do it. My son, who’s 26 My oldest is 26. He was struggling with anxiety, what the kids call, when I say the kids, my generation didn’t speak about feelings. Like their generation does. They talk about anxiety, and they don’t even know the definition of it. They’ve heard it somewhere. They’ve applied anxiety to everything.
Bill Gasiamis 49:29
And it’s like, what specifically do you mean when you say anxiety? Do you even know what the definition is? Could it be something similar but different or something completely different that you’re misdiagnosing that you’re labeling yourself and it’s like, in the meantime, go and do some exercise and he found like everyone at the moment seems to be finding Brazilian jujitsu.
Bill Gasiamis 49:51
Who would have thought that my 26-year-old son is going to benefit from rolling around with other men in a sweaty stinky bloody outfit on the ground for an hour, every second day, and then getting treated in a way that’s difficult for him to overcome. So it causes a lot of discomfort, you have to find the way out of the hole that they’ve got you in, you have to try and combat what the person is about to do to you, and you need to do it back to them so that you can win the bout.
Finding A Community
Bill Gasiamis 50:25
And it’s like, who would have thought that your “anxiety” which I believe people have, is gonna go away by you rolling around on the ground with another man? Wow, oh my gosh, is that what jujitsu is about? Oh, man, that is fantastic. Talk about getting, you know, feeling close to men to other men, you know, where society tells you, you know, let’s not do that manly stuff, but it’s okay, if we’re kind of almost killing each other and rolling around, passing sweat off and all that.
Bill Gasiamis 51:02
But let’s not do it in the other way. You know, like, it’s amazing how much of a benefit exercise causes and the closeness and the bonds that is created with these people. Because I think they’re both experiencing in a community, the decrease in anxiety and depression and blood pressure and all that stuff.
Bill Gasiamis 51:23
And the increase in dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin, and all the other stuff that makes your brain work and fire and make you feel happy and healthy. You know, it’s brilliant, how in a community, it happens way better than you could possibly do it on your own.
Rachel Keele 51:38
Yeah. And that’s like, you touched on two things there that I think a lot of people don’t talk about much with exercise is that if you are willing to willing to do it consistently and regularly, most often, unless you’re just doing it at home by yourself, which is still an excellent thing to do, if that’s what you want to do. But there’s a lot of community to be found.
Rachel Keele 51:59
So I teach group fitness classes now. And people have their favorite classes, they come to those classes regularly, they get to know each other, then they’re accountable to one another. They’re like messaging each other when they don’t show up and, and they’re cracking jokes, and they’re hanging out outside of class, like the social component is huge.
Rachel Keele 52:19
And you see that, like on the fitness floors as well, people, they come at the same time, they get to know each other, they have their gym bros, you know, their gym buddies, or whatever, that social component is huge. But also, you kind of touched on the fact like, oh, like, you know, he’s having to like, figure out how to get out of these holes. It’s kind of like this problem solving situation.
Rachel Keele 52:41
And there’s so much that happens in a physical setting that can be applied to other areas of life. I remember one time doing a personal training session, while I can think of a few different stories like this, but I had one client that just constantly was like, I tell her to do something she’s like, I can’t do that. Like she was like really incredulous about it.
Rachel Keele 53:04
And it got really annoying. And finally she came on session. And I was like, I don’t know if you realize that you do this, but this is this is what you do. You’re constantly doubting me, but also yourself. And in this workout, if you tell me one time that you can’t do something, you’re gonna have to do like 50 burpees, I have this whole like penalty for her. And she went the whole workout without doing it. And at the end was like, I can’t like there were so many times I wanted to say that and I had to stop myself.
Rachel Keele 53:34
And then the next session, she came back and was like, I had no idea how much I do this. In so many different areas of my life, it was it was a metaphor for her life. And I’ve had other situations where I’m like, Okay, we’re gonna do this heavy lift, I want you to visualize it, you’re going to step into it, tell yourself that you’re going to do it, and give yourself the time to make it happen.
Rachel Keele 54:00
And the next week, she was like, I applied that in a different thing. Like, it was something really hard that I had to do, I had to write this paper didn’t want to do it. And I just did the same thing. I visualized myself completing it, I told myself, I could do it and I did it.
Rachel Keele 54:18
And I’m like, This is what happens I mean, it’s the same thing. Everything is connected. So we develop practices and in gyms or in our physical activities that are not just applicable there, like we can apply them to other areas of our lives for things that aren’t related to physical activity at all. So yeah, I mean, if you can just go on and on about the benefits of exercise for sure.
Bill Gasiamis 54:45
And we will for a little longer. My my son so he often talks about jujitsu and how it’s improved his sense of self and his ability to to overcome things and get through hard stuff and all that type of thing. And that’s beautiful because he’s doing that now. And if I had done something like that before in my life because I was not physical much.
Bill Gasiamis 55:10
If I had done that I would have had more ways to solve problems at work that were causing me grief that I thought were unsolvable. And most of that was that I didn’t want to ask for help. I didn’t want to be the guy who goes to somebody. And, I was telling myself appear, like, I’m dumb or stupid, or, you know, an intelligent or something, which I was just naive, because I’ve never done that before, I’d never been somewhere and experienced that problem before.
Bill Gasiamis 55:38
How am I supposed to know how to solve that problem, when I’ve never had the opportunity to experience it before. And there had been other people that were great resources that I could have tapped into, that I didn’t tap into who had been there. And that would have saved me years and years of trying to work it out myself. And I would have been closer to my goal quicker.
Bill Gasiamis 55:38
Except I thought, you know, I’ve got all the time in the world. And then at 37, I almost never had any more time in the world. And the regrets came in. It’s like, Oh, my God, you wasted so much time, you idiot. And I actually really did waste time. It’s not the same as when I started my podcast in 2015.
Bill Gasiamis 56:19
And because I was so unwell, I couldn’t put out enough episodes to make it a thing. And I paused a few times, and I was afraid of what people might think of me and all that kind of stuff. And I was playing all patterns was very different, because I was recovering from a stroke and trying to be productive. Whereas back then I was avoiding being productive, thinking that what I’m doing is protecting myself from other people.
Bill Gasiamis 56:48
All I was doing was putting myself in a situation where I was missing out on learning new things that were going to benefit me my life, my work, whatever. And most of it was from the personal development side of it. And most of it also was because I didn’t have enough contact with unique individuals from a whole bunch of backgrounds. Exercise in a group in a gym.
Bill Gasiamis 57:14
Yeah, they might be all gym junkies, or they might be all, you know, slight meatheads or whatever. But they are diverse. And from that diversity, I could have grown. But I insulated myself kept myself in a space where I only surrounded myself with the people who thought like me spoke like me acted like me did the work that I did. And it’s like, what a boring bastard I am.
Bill Gasiamis 57:38
You know, and then it’s like, that’s what the podcast is, this is my gym, you know, I come to the podcast to meet people who think or act differently than me. And go about life differently and have different expectations or ideas or whatever. But in the end, I grow from that. And then I can apply it to the next person who’s unique and an individual that I’ve never met before. And I don’t know about and I can just go so you think that, you’re wearing a cone on your heads gonna help you with stroke recovery.
Bill Gasiamis 58:16
Alright, tell me about that. I’m not going to judge you. If you feel that way. You know, tell me about it. I might give you my opinion, if you asked for it, specifically, how it’s going to support me to recover from stroke. I don’t think it will. But if, if that’s what you think, tell me why I want to know what’s behind it. And that’s it. And if you’re not completely delusional, and if it’s not a stroke talking or even if it is a stroke, I’m still going to talk to you.
Bill Gasiamis 58:41
It doesn’t impact me one way or another, so it’s like, exercise does that it also does that because even people who do solitary sports like running and cycling, who I’ve interviewed a bunch of ultramarathon runners and cyclists and all that kind of stuff.
Bill Gasiamis 58:59
Even those guys eventually, they’d like to run next to somebody or they’d like to pedal in a pack with somebody that appears like it’s an individual sport. But when they stop at the local station for whatever pitstop they do, they’ll talk bike stuff, they will talk about lifestyle, they’ll talk about injuries and everything. And it’s not an individual sport, after all, even tennis players, you know, it’s not individual sport.
Rachel Keele 59:29
Yeah, the moment that they have a chance to talk about it with somebody like that’s their buddy. And then also like, look at who they follow on social media. Like you develop your communities how you can so exactly, even with individual sports, there’s community to be had for sure.
Bill Gasiamis 59:47
Yeah. I love it. But you also do other things now, with the people that come to train, you talk nutrition, so in an event that somebody comes to you and they’ve had a stroke recently or they’re recovering from stroke, they’re a few years in? How do you tackle the conversation on nutrition?
Importance Of Nutrition And Exercise In Stroke Recovery

Bill Gasiamis 1:00:03
Because I know the majority of the people that I speak to who I’ve coached on stroke recovery, talked to me about nutrition, all say, I eat pretty healthy. And then if you ask them what they ate, there might be a difference between what their version of healthy is and what’s really healthy. So what would you say? And what I like to do is sort of rather than tell people what they should eat, I prefer to tell them what they better avoid eating in my opinion. So how do you tackle that?
Rachel Keele 1:00:40
In general, I do the exact opposite thing. I’m trying to think if I’ve ever had conversation with people about eating like nutrition in terms of stroke recovery. Obviously, people talk about nutrition all the time, actually way more than exercise. But when it comes to like people I’ve connected with on social media who know that I’m a stroke survivor, usually they’re talking about exercise, because I’ve posted a lot of stuff about that.
Rachel Keele 1:01:11
So in my general advice with nutrition is always about inclusion and abundance, and not so much restriction. So one thing that I’m really, really big on and this was actually something that I practice post-stroke, I felt the need to I was like, I don’t know exactly what I should be doing in terms of nutrition. I mean, I was taking a blood thinner. So they say avoid this, this and that, that are like natural blood thinners, you know, but I should get as much nutrients as possible, I think.
Rachel Keele 1:01:46
So we got a juicer. And we started juicing all the time. And it was fun, and I enjoyed doing it. And I don’t do so much juicing now, but there’s a thing you can look up the hashtag 800 gram challenge. And there’s a lot of different people who do it. Now, I don’t know if you’ve heard of it before. But it’s basically eating 800 grams of fruits, vegetables, and legumes, like a combination of those things every day.
Rachel Keele 1:02:12
So plant foods that are low in calories, extremely nutrient dense, high in fiber, naturally anti-inflammatory, high volume foods, like because they’re low calories, you would eat a lot of them and feel fuller when you eat them. And there’s just so many benefits to eating them. That is kind of what I did after my stroke with all the juicing I don’t think you have to juice but it’s what I recommend to everyone for everything.
Rachel Keele 1:02:41
Whether they have like a health problem, or you know, they’re recovering from something or they’re trying to manage their weight or they’re just trying to eat better. I think that’s a great place to start because the idea is like, it’s a lot for most people 800 grams could be like six cups, or like six fists like about six fist size of those types of things, fruits, vegetables, and legumes.
Rachel Keele 1:03:06
You can add it into just about any diet, but it’s going to be a substantial change for most people. And it’s going to provide so many benefits because yes, like those foods are naturally anti-inflammatory and they are packed with so many nutrients that they will fill you up and they will help you manage your weight. And beyond that nutrition is so highly individualized.
Rachel Keele 1:03:28
I don’t like talking much about healthy eating because like you said, it can mean such different things to different people. And actually rightfully so because our body makeup like even our like enzymatic makeup like in our digestion is so different person to person and our hormones are different person to person, how we respond to foods are different.
Rachel Keele 1:03:53
So there’s going to be some things that would be very healthy for some people to consume and even some fruits and vegetables, right? That are great for so many people but some people might not feel great eating them. Like I’m someone who eats literally just about everything.
Rachel Keele 1:04:08
And with you know junk food and stuff, I just try to moderate it I try not to eat a lot of those things. But there’s very little that I just restrict completely. So I tried to focus on getting a lot of good things as much as I can. And then that takes up place on my space. So like a lot of the processed foods. I just don’t eat as much of those. I would say like yeah, focus on nutrients.
Bill Gasiamis 1:04:35
I like that because I think you just summed that up really brilliantly at the end. It’s like when you said 800 grams of nutrients if they’re on your plate, well then the other stuff really can’t get on because you’re gonna be full anyway. And I like that idea. And I kind of sort of try and steer people away from sugar almost, especially if they have neurological fatigue almost any amount of sugar at the beginning.
Bill Gasiamis 1:05:03
And then even later, because what enables you to do is kind of get baseline of sugar and get the sugar out of your body. And then when you have it later, say, a month or two or three months later, you actually get to feel what it does to you. And then you’ll know whether or not it’s good for you to consume. So that’s kind of one of the things.
Bill Gasiamis 1:05:23
And the other thing is any wheat-based or gluten-based breads, or pastures, that kind of stuff, because they spike blood sugar, but also, the gluten is inflammatory to the brain, and it’s inflammatory to the thyroid and to the gut, it’s inflammatory, right. So it’s like, if you can keep those two things out, you’re going to really create a good space for the other nutrients that you’re putting on your plate to really do their work and help out and support.
Bill Gasiamis 1:05:51
And then when you do go back and have them a little later, if you do have them later, than you notice how they impact you. And that’s that’s kind of how I did it. And I, I’ll, I’ll eat something sweet. Now, once in a blue moon, you know, we’ll go and get a cake from the local coffee shop or whatever. And I’ll eat it and I’ll be able to feel the sugar coursing through my veins in all parts of my body, and I never had that experience before. I never felt that before. Until I realized how much it was impacting my fatigue and how much it was fatiguing me after the strokes.
Bill Gasiamis 1:06:29
And brain surgery, and then every once in a while have the sugar and it’s like, people who are on drugs describe about how they feel. And I tell people and they look at me strange, it’s like, you can feel that. I can probably feel it going through every orifice of my body in the blood. I don’t know how it works, but I can feel it. So some of the insights are from paying attention, like you said, to what, how you feel when you’re eating it, and then a little bit later and what food food does for you.
Rachel Keele 1:07:07
Yeah, I’m a big proponent of what I like to call thoughtful eating, I think a lot of people would refer to the same thing as intuitive eating. But for so many of us eating is not an intuitive practice. And so I like to encourage people just to be thoughtful. And what I mean by that is, before you eat, like just check in with yourself. Like, how do you feel? Are you wanting to eat something because you’re stressed out? Or maybe thirsty? Or you actually want to eat something?
Rachel Keele 1:07:38
Like, give some thought to that? Well, you’re eating, are you mindlessly eating? Or are you like, oh, actually, like, I think I’m satisfied. Now? I think I’m full now. And then after you eat? Yeah, like how did how did that make you feel? Like, in the hours after you eat? Do you feel any sensations that shouldn’t be normal? That make you uncomfortable? Like how does your stomach feel? How does your brain feel? How does your blood sugar feel? Do you feel jittery? Do you feel calm? Do you feel sluggish? That kind of thing.
Rachel Keele 1:08:09
We’re always just like, go go go. And so many of us are eating quickly and whatever. So I’m a big proponent of just like, as much as possible, try to slow the process down and just give some thought to it. That doesn’t mean that you I mean, you can journal and that’s great to start out. But like, that doesn’t mean that like, you know, a meal takes an hour and like you can’t talk to anyone or anything because you’re trying to check in with yourself.
Rachel Keele 1:08:33
No, just like, check in with yourself a few times and give yourself some space to be like, did that make me feel gross? Because yes, certain people will be very, very sensitive to some things and maybe not others and it may not be the same for everybody. So a lot of it is like a journey you have to take yourself and you may discover even healthy foods, you know, even certain fruits and vegetables might make you uncomfortable. And that’s just part of being human.
Bill Gasiamis 1:09:02
And for me it’s legumes, you know, any makes me bloated, you know, so I avoid them. And that’s the part it’s like bloating, it’s jittery, it’s brain fog. It’s also you know, the old thing that happens after holidays you know, when we eat and then we had a food coma. Those kind of experiences just pay attention. It might be the food. It might not be that you’re tired. I love that well, what did you call it not mindful you called it?
Rachel Keele 1:09:36
Thoughtful I like to say it’s thoughtful. Mindful is a good one but mindful gets used quite a bit. I like to emphasize like you’re trying to think about it. Just think about it a little bit. Just be thoughtful.
Bill Gasiamis 1:09:49
I like that. So let’s talk a little bit about well, let me ask you, what is the hardest thing that you had to deal with regards to stroke, or overcome? And then I’ll ask you another question.
The Hardest Times For Rachel Keele
Rachel Keele 1:10:09
Okay. The hardest thing I mean, physically the most painful and uncomfortable thing was the headaches for several weeks. And I still, I call them stroke headaches, I don’t, I’m sure other people experienced this, I have a very specific headache that never happened before. It is a inconsistent, stabbing headache that happens in the left temple, like the same side or whatever.
Rachel Keele 1:10:42
And if I’m dehydrated, or like overly stressed, like that will happen throughout the day. And it’s very obvious, like, my husband will tease me about it sometimes. Because it like, contorts my face, it’s only for a couple of seconds. Like I can’t complain too much like, but it will just happen throughout the day where I’ll be, it will just like, so that I mean, that’s happened ever since those awful headaches that I had for several weeks.
Rachel Keele 1:11:10
Physically, like, that was probably the most painful thing. I mean, the biggest struggle was like, I think it was like the combination, like, of learning how to walk again, and then trying to find my way back into exercise and normal activities. And sometimes overdoing that. And sometimes, you know, going very slow and feeling very left behind, like, I don’t CrossFit very regularly now, I still think it’s a great methodology.
Rachel Keele 1:11:46
But in that in that environment at the time, like it’s very competitive, and, and when you’re progressing with people, and then all of a sudden, you’re very much set back. Like that was really, really difficult. It was a very helpful experience, because as a fitness professional, now, people will write, you know, everyone’s gonna have to, like have a surgery or get sick or something.
Rachel Keele 1:12:09
And so everyone deals with those feelings. And a lot of times they don’t want to care for themselves or rest, you know, take the time that they need, because they don’t want to fall behind you. Like they feel like they’re on a good path. They’re moving forward. And, and so now I can be like, look, just like I’ve been there. And I’ve been there for a long period of time, like, just rest and that will help you so much in the future.
Rachel Keele 1:12:35
That was very hard was this kind of being on that journey? I felt, you know, this is a lot of people who have experienced this will be like, it only took you a year. But I felt like for a year, I was kind of trying to like, figure this out, like, how much do I do? How like, Can I can I do this thing? Can I not do this thing. And sometimes just feeling extremely frustrated sometimes arguing with my husband about stuff like that.
Rachel Keele 1:13:02
A lot of like, emotional baggage with it. A lot of tears at the gym, that kind of thing, like trying to do something that I hoped I could do and was not able to do. That kind of thing. I think just like that. Where the like emotions and the mental struggle and the physical demands kind of met, like that was probably the hardest part for me.
Rachel Keele 1:13:23
But at the same time, I am very, very proud to be like, yeah, I haven’t learned how to walk again. Like I’m very proud about. That’s like you know, not everyone has that experience. And people will look at the things that I do now and be like, Oh, you’re so athletic. You’re so fit. And I’m like, well, six years ago, I couldn’t walk so you can do it too.
Bill Gasiamis 1:13:48
Yeah. I love that thing that you mentioned the I’m going to call it the triangle of triumph. You mentioned mental, emotional and physical. All right, copywriting that, by the way, nobody ever use that. I just copied it. The triangle of triumph. And that’s what it is. That’s what I’ll often referred to as the three pillars to stroke recovery. And there’s a lot of little things in every one of those right.
Bill Gasiamis 1:14:15
But you can’t complete an A stroke recovery, if you don’t do the physical part of it. And you can’t complete a stroke recovery if you don’t do the emotional part of it and deal with what it means to you that you had a stroke and what it means for your future and what it means for all those reasons you know that stroke impacts our emotions.
Bill Gasiamis 1:14:42
And you can’t complete your emotion your your stroke recovery if you don’t deal with what it’s doing in your head, not only the physical part of the head, but also that mental state that your head is in. It’s a three pronged approach. You’ve got to do them both. And in the end part of the game gap that we spoke about earlier, is that they patch us up and send us home.
Bill Gasiamis 1:15:05
But then they don’t go, how do you feel about everything that’s just happened? Let’s get you through that. You’ve got to work that out yourself, and you got to go get counseling, when you got to do deep dives into your emotional discomfort, and people don’t feel safe going there sometimes because it’s hard.
Bill Gasiamis 1:15:24
But going there is where the relief comes. If the monsters then you go to the monster, the monster is not really a monster, it’s something we’ve imagined was a monster, and then it gets better, you know, and dealing with your thoughts and the types of thoughts that make it hard for people to go through a day or to wake up or to have to contemplate in their heads what it means that I can’t walk right now.
Bill Gasiamis 1:15:53
Is it forever? What is it? That three pronged approach is, I think what makes a really strong recovery, and you can put in emotional, you can add, you can add the religious experience in there for you, whatever that means a spiritual, whatever, you know, if you want to add that there, because I think that’s where religion resides, it doesn’t reside in the head, if you go to head for religion, you’ll convince yourself out of it, because it doesn’t make sense. It shouldn’t ever be a thing because it doesn’t compute.
Bill Gasiamis 1:16:27
But if you go to the heart, and you experience it there it’s better, so you can add to the emotional recovery, you can add your spiritual recovery, your religious recovery, whatever you want. And then the physical recovery includes the gut. It’s where our instinct sign includes where we go to to take action from and where we move forward from and where we break through barriers from and where we have the guts to do things.
Bill Gasiamis 1:16:52
You know, and if you haven’t got a healthy gut, and if you’re not going there, you’re missing on a key component to your recovery, like 1/3 of your recovery is not happening. And it could be the reason why you’re wondering, why haven’t I progressed forward in this aspect of my recovery, or in this part of my life.
Bill Gasiamis 1:17:15
It’s just might be that you’re missing something. I love that you touched on that beautifully there. And I feel like this episode is going to really hit a lot of points for people that are going to make them think about things that they haven’t contemplated before or thought about before. And that’s kind of what I’m hoping to do. And why you guys helped me do that, because I can’t do it on all on my own.
Bill Gasiamis 1:17:45
I need you guys to help with that. So you’re doing a great job there, you’re also doing a great job in your life, and the way that you support and help people because you know what it’s going to help them overcome what a gift or you know what it’s going to help them avoid on a gift to be able to give somebody some tools and help them avoid some of the hard stuff that they don’t need to experience so that they can avoid well worth avoiding. And maybe it’ll soften the blow of something that they experienced in the future. So, on that note, the last question that I came up with earlier that I wanted to remember to ask you was what has stroke taught you that you didn’t know before stroke?
What Stroke Tought Rachel Keele
Rachel Keele 1:18:33
Well, first of all, now I know what it is. What it means I know the of signs and symptoms. And I like to advertise those to people because I was so clueless about it. So and the very literal sense, I’ve learned that oh, man, like, I just feel kind of like a different person afterwards. So I’m trying to, like boil that down to I mean, I feel like we’ve kind of talked about some of that.
Rachel Keele 1:19:08
I certainly feel like I learned the value of even small gestures of support for other people, and how meaningful that can be one thing that I used to say, I feel like I wrote this for something was that what stroke gave me was a strength of spirit and a softness of heart. So you know, kind of like the idea that making me a more sensitive person, but also really just steeling me, like hardening me.
Rachel Keele 1:19:43
Just toughening me up to you know, whatever next difficult thing would happen, and that is life, like whether it’s a physical challenge or it’s a loss or it’s some sort of intense emotional experience, like we’re all going to experience trauma in our life, we cannot get around that. And if you’re a person of faith or not, or whoever you believe in, you have to reconcile the fact that very challenging things will happen in your life, whether you face them yet or not.
Rachel Keele 1:20:21
And so how are you going to face it when it happens? What are you going to do it that, and this experience has, I mean, it was probably the first huge challenge of my life, you know. And it just has kind of solidified in me that however difficult or hard something can be, it can still not that it in and of itself has to be a positive thing.
Rachel Keele 1:20:53
But it can bring about so many other positive things. And that could be just as simple as I learned x y and z from it. Right. So I feel like I have that experience. Like maybe I had heard that from people before. Or I could have, you know, I could have read that and acknowledged it. But I hadn’t understood it in this way. That’s probably the biggest thing for me.
Bill Gasiamis 1:21:18
Yeah. I love that. Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast. I really appreciate it. And I hope that people will reach out to you and connect with you. I’ll share all of your socials on the show notes where people can go and download a copy of the transcript of the entire interview if they need it. And yeah, I look forward to following your path and your journey forward.
Rachel Keele 1:21:43
Yeah, and thank you so much for having me. And thank you for doing this. Like, it’s just so important. And I wish you had been one of the people I discovered right away, but I’m really glad to know you, at least now.
Bill Gasiamis 1:21:58
Better late than never.
Rachel Keele 1:22:00
Better late than never. Exactly.
Bill Gasiamis 1:22:02
Thanks, Rachel.
Rachel Keele 1:22:04
Thank you.
Bill Gasiamis 1:22:05
Thanks for joining us on today’s episode to learn more about my guests, including their links to social media and other pages and to download a full transcript of the entire interview. Please go to recoveryafterstroke.com/episodes. If you’d like to support this podcast, the best way to do it is to leave a five star review on Google or wherever you listen to your podcasts on Spotify, on iTunes, wherever you listen to them.
Bill Gasiamis 1:22:30
And if you’re watching on YouTube, comment below the video like this episode, and to get notifications of future episodes, subscribe to the show. And of course, hit the notification bell. Sharing the show with family and friends on social media. We’ll make it possible for people who may need this type of content to find it easier, and they may make a massive difference to someone that is on the road to recovery after their own experience with stroke. Thanks again for being here and listening. I really appreciate you and see you on the next episode.
Intro 1:22:58
Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals. The opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast are the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed.
Intro 1:23:15
All content on this website at any linked blog, podcast or video material control this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis. The content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice.
Intro 1:23:38
The information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances or health objectives. Do not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose treat, cure or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional.
Intro 1:23:53
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Intro 1:24:07
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Intro 1:24:30
If you choose to rely on any information within our content you do so solely at your own risk. We are careful with links we provide however third party links from our website are followed at your own risk and we are not responsible for any information you find there.
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1 hr 25 min
October 03, 2022 Along Came A Stroke – Eileen Haas
Eileen Haas experienced a hemorrhagic stroke at age 61 on a beautiful sunny day when she was bringing in the washing from the line. Her book Along Came A Stroke is out Oct 2022.
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Highlights:
03:03 Introduction
07:17 That One Friend
12:03 Eileen Haas’ Deficits
19:07 Managing Fatigue
26:40 Importance Of Setting Boundaries
36:24 Along Came A Stroke
43:11 Avoiding Another Stroke
53:09 The Options Of Survival
Transcription:
Eileen Haas 0:00
Well, when you have a stroke or a heart attack or knee injury or anything, you can look at the negative side of it and say, Oh, I’ve lost this, that, and the other thing, I’ve lost, I’ve lost.
Eileen Haas 0:21
But actually, you’ve also gained, and no one looks at that side, or no one tends to look at that side I think people are afraid. So options means you can choose to look at what is lost, you can choose to look at what you’ve gained.
Intro 0:50
This is the recovery after stroke podcast with Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after stroke.
Bill Gasiamis 1:03
Hello, and welcome to episode 218 of the recovery after stroke podcast now that the episodes have gone beyond 200, I’m getting addicted to seeing 300 episodes, and I’m loving doing these episodes.
Bill Gasiamis 1:17
And I want to hear from you, I want your stories, sharing your stories is good for you, and it’s good for the rest of the community. Together, we’re gonna make a difference to each other.
Bill Gasiamis 1:27
This is how we support each other, and this is how we bridge that gap of feeling alone after a stroke. So if you’re a stroke survivor with a story to share about your experience, come and join me on the show.
Bill Gasiamis 1:39
The interviews are not scripted, it’s like catching up over a cup of coffee. It’s just a chat between two people with something in common you do not have to plan for it.
Bill Gasiamis 1:49
All you need to do to qualify is be a stroke survivor or care for someone who is a stroke survivor or help people who are stroke survivors. If you go to recoveryafterstroke.com/contact and select be a podcast guest in the drop-down and fill out the contact form.
Bill Gasiamis 2:06
As soon as I receive it, I will respond with more details on how you can choose a time that works for you and me to meet over Zoom. Also, I would love to hear from people that have any stroke-related questions.
Bill Gasiamis 2:18
So I compile some questions and make some shorter episodes that give you my perspective on your burning questions about stroke recovery life, whatever it is, of course, they cannot be medical in nature as I’m not a doctor and cannot comment on your specific situation.
Bill Gasiamis 2:34
But they can be about stroke-related matters. Once again, if you go to recoveryafterstroke.com/contact. But this time, select the ask Bill a question drop-down, leave the details in the box with your question.
Bill Gasiamis 2:48
And when I have enough of them I will make an episode dedicated to your questions and hopefully give you an insight into something that you are wanting to know about. And hopefully that’ll help you with some clarity or maybe with something else that you are needing right now.
Introduction – Along Came A Stroke

Bill Gasiamis 3:03
My guest today is I learned Haas who was putting away her laundry into the laundry basket when suddenly along came a stroke. Elaine Haas. Welcome to the podcast.
Eileen Haas 3:15
Thank you. I’m so happy to be here. Thank you for having me.
Bill Gasiamis 3:20
My pleasure. Tell me a little bit about your story. How you got to be in the situation you’re in.
Eileen Haas 3:30
Well, it just happened. I was going about my life. And it just happen. And it changes everything. Your life is never the same, but you do have one. Having a stroke is like it teaches you alot lot of things.
Eileen Haas 3:57
It teaches you acceptance, which I fought it for about two years. And then I finally accepted. This is the way I am. So while I’ve gotten much, much better. Still I obviously have deficits that I have to deal with. But over the years I have learned to deal with them.
Bill Gasiamis 4:27
So you were just going about life. What was life like what were you up to before the stroke?
Eileen Haas 4:37
Well, I had a full-time job. I had a bakehouse. I had lots of friends, a busy social life. I travel a lot you know just ordinary stuff. And when I had my stroke, It was a beautiful Saturday morning, the sun was shining. It was cool, but not too cool.
Eileen Haas 5:13
And I was folding laundry in preparation to put it in the linen closet. And as I was folding laundry, I felt something happen in the back of my neck. And it was pretty rapid from then on. I knew I was having a stroke. I knew right away.
Bill Gasiamis 5:40
In 2014, how old were you?
Eileen Haas 5:44
I was 61. And it was 2013. May, you know, it’s like it becomes engraved in your memory. It was Memorial Day weekend, 2013 when I had the stroke, and like I said, it changes everything in an instant.
Bill Gasiamis 6:16
Were you home alone?
Eileen Haas 6:17
I was home alone. I was in a really scary situation something everyone thinks should not happen to them. But it does. You know, even it you’re living somewhere. Even if you a have family, you still have times when everyone is out doing something, and you’re home alone and you never, ever think anything’s going to happen.
Eileen Haas 6:51
And maybe it won’t. Maybe you’ll go through life and never have to think about this. But it happened to me. I was alone. And the scariest thing is I had no presence of mind. I couldn’t think straight. And I only could remember one phone number.
That One Friend – Eileen Haas
Eileen Haas 7:17
And it wasn’t 911 I should have remembered that I should have called it. But I couldn’t even think of it. Which is really frightening. So the only phone number I could think of was one of my friend up the street it was a cellphone number. And I knew she had a key to my house. So like I said, I was in a really scary situation. But I did what I had to do.
Bill Gasiamis 8:01
Yeah. So did she answer the phone immediately and come over immediately? Or was there a delay?
Eileen Haas 8:09
You know, it’s a miracle that she answered the phone. She never answered the phone. I always get voicemail. And you know, half a me was expecting voicemail.
Eileen Haas 8:24
She picked up immediately. It was amazing. And she started to question me. And I heard her boyfriend in the background screaming, get over there now get over there.
Eileen Haas 8:43
And so she said I’m coming over and she hung up and in a few minutes. She was right up the street. She entered the house. So I was lucky on a lot of friends that I remembered her number, that she picked up which was amazing. And that she came over and took over. She was a very smart and level headed person. And I knew that if anyone could handle that situation, it was her.
Bill Gasiamis 9:23
I love it. You know, sometimes we’ve got friends who we’d love, but they’re unreliable. They never return your calls. They never pick up the phone. But then one day, when they don’t know that something is needed. They somehow know to do the right thing exactly the right time.
Bill Gasiamis 9:23
I had friends like that and they came out of nowhere. And it’s like you really surprised me in a lovely way. Thank you. It’s not like we judge them for their tardiness in responding to messages or calling Yes, it’s just that they have a habit. And they continuously do the same thing. And then every once in a while, you get an amazing surprise. And yeah, it sounds like your friend stepped up just when you needed her the most.
Eileen Haas 10:15
I don’t know what I would have done if she hadn’t to come over. I don’t even let myself think about it. I just don’t go there. But I would have thought of something. Or maybe not because I backed out soon after. And that was the end.
Bill Gasiamis 10:37
Yeah. Now, when you woke up, you were in hospital? How long did you spend there?
Eileen Haas 10:46
Five weeks, a long time. But, and I don’t know how long I was out for. Because whenever I asked people, they miraculously can’t remember. You know, that’s something I would remember. And everyone says the same thing. Oh, I don’t remember.
Eileen Haas 11:12
Yes, you do. You just don’t want to tell me. So I leave them alone. But when I came to, which could have been the next day or the next week, or I don’t know, I was in ICU. And I don’t recall when they moved me to a regular room. I think I was in ICU for just a few days. And they moved me to regular room. And then I was moved to another hospital. A rehab hospital where they really started working me.
Eileen Haas’ Deficits

Bill Gasiamis 12:03
And what were the deficits that you were ended up with, after all of this saga.
Eileen Haas 12:09
I ended up with a weak by side, I still have a tremor, and I’m going to see a team of neurologists in December, who supposedly are going to do something about it. So I’m still working on recovering. It’s a lifelong process for a lot of people, and you have to develop patience.
Eileen Haas 12:45
So obviously, my voice is greatly affected. And I don’t know why no one can tell me why, supposedly well, my vocal cords have not been damaged. But I can’t talk properly. And it bothers me the most. But I have gotten better and better and better. So at least I can talk to you now. I can talk to anyone. And I’m not afraid to do that. So even though I know I sound really strange, but I’m understandable.
Bill Gasiamis 13:38
And you can communicate so it’s a great thing. I heard of somebody who I met actually, in my hometown in Melbourne, Australia, who had a stroke and their voice changed to a different accent. They were a similar accent to me. And they picked up a I think it was a French accent. And they have no French history or relatives or they don’t know French, but they have an accent that sounds like they’re a French person. learning to speak English in Australia. It’s so bizarre.
Eileen Haas 14:22
Oh, it’s very bizarre. My speech therapist told me that I would end up with a European accent and I go what? Are you kidding? I’m American. I was born here. But some people think I’m farming Europe. And I have to laugh when that happens because I’m not and sometimes I speak with that kind of accent. I know I do.
Bill Gasiamis 14:58
Which part of the United States are you from?
Eileen Haas 15:01
I’m from New York City.
Bill Gasiamis 15:04
Wow. I get it. So your accent is definitely would have been noticeable. You’re a New Yorker, there’s a special way that New Yorkers talk. And we would’ve known about it immediately. And now you haven’t got that part of you, that you had in the past? Is that a shift in your identity as well? Does that impact how you identify with yourself and how you see yourself?
Eileen Haas 15:31
Actually it has not, I find it amusing. But I’m still who I always was. My voice may be strange, and I may sound European sometimes. But you know, I’m still the person I was before. I have the same interests, the same personality for better or worse. The only thing that’s really that have changed about me are physical. Otherwise I have not changed at all. You do change in the beginning, you do change. But eventually, it all comes back.
Bill Gasiamis 16:27
Your self comes back your personality, the way you perceive the world and see the world might alter a little or shift a little but. Your essence remains, doesn’t it?
Eileen Haas 16:41
Yes, it does and I have to say, there’s a point at which you wish, said these would not come back. And they do and you think, Oh, not that one. And you’re kind of stuck. But you know, Is it certain ways that first year or so something gets stripped away. I don’t know what to call it. But something is stripped away.
Eileen Haas 17:16
And you connect with people in a way you never had. And it feels really good. But then gradually, that barrier comes back. It comes way back. And there’s nothing you can do about it except to bid a fun farewell to the way you enjoyed being.
Bill Gasiamis 17:45
Yeah, I understand. So that means that your full-time job was no longer something that you’re able to do. And have you been able to get back to work in some way, shape or form any type of work?
Eileen Haas 18:01
Well, no. I had a really good job. And the first year, I was adamant that I was going back to work. And then after a year, I was not going back to work. It took years before I could have gone back to work. And by then my job had been long filled. So I retired early. And the only thing I knew I was really good at was writing. I have always been good at since I was a child. I was good at it. So I thought, well, I’m going to write that book I’ve been talking about for decades now. And so I did I wrote a book.
Managing Fatigue – Eileen Haas

Bill Gasiamis 19:07
You had a really interesting experience and topic to talk about now. And plenty of time by the sounds of things.
Eileen Haas 19:18
Yeah, that is interesting. You have a lot of time. But it gets filled. You sleep a lot. I mean, a lot. You’re always sleeping, you could go to sleep at any time anyway, you can go to sleep. So all that time that’s taken up sleeping. Then later on when you get past that, you spend a lot of time in recovery trying to learn to do things you can no longer do. So you end up with more time. But it gets taken up a lot.
Bill Gasiamis 20:16
And as a result of that, does that mean you have less time or is there less of energy for socializing and for friends and for things that you were doing a lot of before the stroke? Did you find that?
Eileen Haas 20:31
Ah, yes, I found that I couldn’t go out as much. I go out, I do the things I used to do, but not as much. And also, I had so much energy. I was like, an endless fountain. And now I get tired. And I realized the point at which I have to stop and rest. And very often, that’s it for the day.
Eileen Haas 21:13
Usually, I’m fine to the evening, which is really good. For a long time, I was not. And now I can, it’s a slow evolution and recovery and you have to work hard at it. And at some point, I realized that I didn’t have the stamina I used to have. So I work I made myself stay up. Two things I went from doing one thing per day to doing two to three to doing four. And, you know, I trained myself to stay up and do things. Otherwise ways, you can easily fall into the habit of just sleeping.
Bill Gasiamis 22:15
Fatigue is generally a very big issue for people who have a brain injury from stroke. And you’re describing your level of fatigue and neurological fatigue was very high at the beginning. And it’s become better as time has gone on by the sound of it.
Eileen Haas 22:32
It has but I’ll tell you it took years to get to the point where I could work on my stamina in, you know, four or five years in this. I took naps during the day. I never took naps in my life. I couldn’t even imagine taking a nap. I could not sleep during the day. After the stroke I needed to.
Eileen Haas 23:06
Yeah. Now, I’m at the point where I never never nap anymore. But it took me about six years to get to that point.
Bill Gasiamis 23:24
Yeah, I can relate to that. And a lot of people watching and listening will relate to that. Because sleep and napping is how you recharge your batteries. It’s how the brain heal. That’s how you’re able to reset for the day and go again for a little longer. Before you go to the end of the day, I also couldn’t last. Towards the end of the day, I couldn’t last if I hadn’t had a nap during the day.
Bill Gasiamis 23:50
And then I would have to be in bed earlier and potentially miss out on an opportunity to go somewhere or catch up with some friends. So and that was really helpful and made me feel a lot better. And it was necessary as essential without the I couldn’t operate. Now, travel what about travel? Have you been able to travel since then? Is it something on the to do list?
Eileen Haas 24:23
I have traveled across the country many times. So I can go to the airport and walk to the terminals and do all that stuff. I can’t say it’s pleasant, but it has nothing to do with having a stroke it’s just unpleasant. But yes, I can travel and I have traveled. I’m taking a hiatus right now because I moved so much. I finally decided to stay in one place for a while.
Eileen Haas 25:04
So I’ve stopped traveling. I’m going to do some more. And it’s interesting. I’m going to take a long car drive next month, and all my friends are really worried about me. Can I drive for four hours? Five hours can I really do that? Are you sure? They keep asking me are you sure you can do that? And yeah, I am. I have done it before. So I don’t have any compunctions about that. But you know, people treat you differently. They really do.
Bill Gasiamis 25:52
They’re afraid that you are somehow more vulnerable. And they feel like you’re not a good judge of your own abilities. And therefore they get worried or overly concerned or worried unnecessarily, sometimes, but sometimes legitimately, and they’re trying to look out for you, and they don’t know how else to look out for you. And that’s the best they can do. So they try to ask a lot of questions and see if you will answer the appropriate way or the correct way.
Eileen Haas 26:31
Sounds like you have a lot of experience with this.
Importance Of Setting Boundaries
Bill Gasiamis 26:38
I do, a large Greek family and a lot of love and care, sometimes too much love and care. Not that there’s such a thing, I don’t think there is. But yes, at some point boundaries are necessary, you need to start creating boundaries, and re educating people that you’re going to be okay and that you need them to give you the space so that you can relearn your boundaries and relearn what your capabilities are, and do all those things that you need to do.
Bill Gasiamis 27:10
And it took me many years to convince them. And fair enough because I did. Why wasn’t my my old self and I went through three years of three brain hemorrhages, and then brain surgery, and then recovery for another two or three years after that.
Bill Gasiamis 27:29
So it was about a six year saga. Before I started to feel like you that I’ve come around to the other side where my life is starting to have some kind of routine and normality and things that are not related to hospital visits all the time or rehabilitation visits all the time.
Bill Gasiamis 27:50
Even though I still had the one checkup a year, even though I still consider myself in recovery. You know, that intense version of always, in doctor’s offices, etc. ended. And when that ended, I kind of felt like, oh, okay, so now I’ve got some time for me to go to do the things that I want to do again. as well. What was it that caused the hemorrhage in your brain or back of your head? Where was it? Exactly?
Eileen Haas 28:29
I know my cerebellum was wiped out. And that apparently is the seat of language and movement. So while I am lucky and you are too that my frontal lobes were not affected at all.
Intro 28:50
If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. Like how long will it take to recover? Will I actually recover? What things should I avoid? In case I make matters worse, and doctors will explain things that obviously, you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask.
Intro 29:14
If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you it’s called the seven questions to ask your doctor about your stroke.
Intro 29:34
These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke. They’ll not only help you better understand your condition and they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery. Head to the website. Now recoveryafterstroke.com and download the guide. It’s free.
Eileen Haas 29:52
I obviously am very affected or somewhat affected by my stroke. So what caused it? Doctors never told me they never do. All they told me was, we don’t know. They can’t even agree if I had an aneurysm that burst or blood vessel that was weak they we’re not sure.
Eileen Haas 30:25
And, you know, I met the point where it kind of doesn’t matter. Something terrible happened in my head that’s all I know. But doctors don’t know that much about the brain. As you probably know, they are just now really studying hard. So I think in a few years, they’ll know a lot more. But right now, they just don’t know.
Bill Gasiamis 31:05
It’s a very complicated organ. In fact, probably the most complicated of them all. And it is just such a weird and bizarre thing to look at, and try to unwrap and determine, like, what goes on in between those little squishy bits, you know, it’s really weird. It’s not like a heart. It’s not like the liver. It’s not like the kidney, there’s a lot of stuff in there that I think it’s impossible to look at and say actually, how does it all work?
Bill Gasiamis 31:39
Because it works with electrical signals and charges. More so than with physical parts, you know, it is a big physical thing. But I think the brain exists to create a space for electrical components and parts to flow through, you know, the neurons and all the things that create all our abilities to move, talk, look, see move.
Bill Gasiamis 31:39
And it’s different from a pump, which the heart is it has, you know, parts that physically move, they go up and down, and they suck oxygen in and they send oxygen away, and then they recycle it. And it’s like, the brain doesn’t have so many moving parts, this solid blob of a thing. And it’s weird. So it makes sense that they don’t know about it. But yes, of course, we’d love them to know more about it.
Eileen Haas 32:38
Where did you have your hemorrhages?
Bill Gasiamis 32:42
Near the cerebellum. So it has impacted my left side. And it has impacted my balance a little. And it was kind of in a faulty blood vessel that burst an arteriovenous malformation AVM they call them. So it’s different from an aneurysm. And it was something I was born with. And it was bleeding over a long period of time. So the first time it was bleeding over seven days.
Bill Gasiamis 33:15
And then they tell me that I was having microbleeds for a good two and a half years before we finally removed that. And every once in a while I would have some really strange or scary episodes where I would get fuzzy. I didn’t know where I was or what I was doing. I didn’t recognize my wife at one point.
Bill Gasiamis 33:35
So there was a whole bunch of weird things that were happening over these two and a half years and then I had the surgery and removed the faulty blood vessel so it can no longer bleed because it’s not there anymore. But it is good. And it was near the cerebellum. So I was lucky that it wasn’t the cerebellum that was impacted directly. It was secondary impact there. So did you have surgery to fix the blood vessel?
Eileen Haas 34:06
I had surgery. I actually don’t know what kind of surgery I had. I think I had a craniotomy. I think the neurosurgeon who I met, but I was so out of it poor guy. I think he operated on me to release a pressure that had built up in my brain for the blood vessel. They didn’t say anything about it. So I don’t know if they repaired them or if it’s been bypassed or what, I actually don’t know all that maybe I should. But you know, it’s not going to change anything. It’s really not.
Bill Gasiamis 35:13
I love your attitude. I mean, how would be dying to know, I would want to know every detail. What did they do? How did they do that? And I’m just shocked, not that I need you to have a different point of view. I’m shocked that you don’t know if you had a craniotomy or not, that’s a pretty dramatic thing.
Eileen Haas 35:35
I asked many times, what happened to me, what happened inside my head, and all other doctors say, well, we’re not exactly sure. That was a terrible answer. And they probably did tell me what I had. I have just forgotten.
Bill Gasiamis 36:04
Yeah. Fair enough. I understand.
Eileen Haas 36:08
Because at some point, you just don’t remember a lot. You just don’t. I think they give you drugs. So you don’t remember. That’s what I think. But who knows?
Along Came A Stroke

Bill Gasiamis 36:24
Potentially. So you put a lot of effort into writing your book. And it isn’t yet released. But it will be soon people can preorder it. It’s forthcoming release date is October the 11th 2022. And the book is called Along Came A Stroke. Tell me a little bit about the about the book, what it does, how does it take people through your story?
Eileen Haas 36:56
Well, I tell my entire story, as I remember it, but don’t hold me to everything. Because I may have gotten something wrong. It is kind of upsetting in the beginning it was very hard to write. Because I had to relive everything that happened to me.
Eileen Haas 37:28
And I didn’t want to, I really did not want to go there. But I had to and during my recovery, which took years and I’m still recovering. And I probably will be for many more years. Some funny things happen to me, some unexpected things happened to me. And I sort of learned a lot as I went along.
Eileen Haas 38:03
And so I ended up writing this book to let people know what I learned how people react to you, and what you can do to make things better for yourself. And that recovery will not happen fast. Like you wish it would. Everyone wishes they could just learn something in a day.
Eileen Haas 38:35
No, it may take three years to learn that one little thing. But you have to have a really good attitude. So I wrote this book to take people through what happened to me and how I’ve covered and the things I’ve learned, the things that helped me recover from my stroke and are still helping me, and how patient I’ve learned to become because I was not a patient person.
Eileen Haas 39:18
No way. But do you learn patience because it’s not going to happen overnight. And doing something a hundred times is not going to make it better. It really isn’t. You’ll end up hurting yourself. But a lot of books about strokes emphasize the brain and what happens and takes people through the scientific explanation of what happened to them, and how they can recover scientifically, and all of that.
Eileen Haas 40:08
But I’m not a scientist, I find it fascinating. I think science is great. But that’s not my bent. And also, when you have a stroke is like science will not help you. It really will not help us learn to walk, though to talk, to use the bath side all those things, science is not going to help you, it’s great to know why.
Eileen Haas 40:44
And to understand what happened to you, it is really great. But from then on, it’s up to you to help yourself get better. And so other things went through my mind. And I talked to a number of people who have had strokes, and found that they really didn’t know what I had figured out. So I ended up writing this book to help them all.
Bill Gasiamis 41:21
So it’s a bit of a guide, as well as a recollection of your story.
Eileen Haas 41:25
It’s both a guide and recollection. Yes.
Bill Gasiamis 41:30
You know, that part where you had to go back and relive the traumatic experience of the stroke? Was it later on did it become therapeutic? Was it good to download that onto the pages and get it out of you, so that it no longer sits in that place where it was causing you trauma or difficult emotions or uncomfortable feelings? Was it good to get it out of your head and download it onto a book?
Eileen Haas 42:04
It was, it was really good. Get it down on paper. And I thought that’s it, I’m never going there again. And I felt that they didn’t need to. That felt really good. What I’m concentrating on most now is they say if you’ve had a stroke, I don’t know if you’ve heard this, you’re more likely to have another one. So that’s my focus now.
Bill Gasiamis 42:45
Avoiding another one.
Eileen Haas 42:47
Avoiding another one. Although I had a neurologist tell me that I will never have another stroke, because the type I had, it will never happen again. So maybe she’s right. I can only hope.
Avoiding Another Stroke

Bill Gasiamis 43:11
Yeah. And some steps to prevent another one, or at least to play a role in being healthy as possible. And to avoid another one. I think there’s really a smart move. That’s basically my approach now is that, although the blood vessel is no longer there, and it can’t bleed again, I don’t want to be responsible for contributing to another one down the road.
Bill Gasiamis 43:34
And making myself and doing something wrong by myself. You know, it’s about protecting myself and learning from what happens so that I don’t create an environment where a stroke might happen. And that’s exactly the approach. I don’t want to be responsible for doing that to myself. It’s a terrible thing to be responsible for. So the book, how long did it take to write?
Eileen Haas 44:12
About two or three years. I wrote half of it really fast. And then I put it away for a while. It was a friend who encouraged me to write the second half.
Bill Gasiamis 44:30
Why did you put it away?
Eileen Haas 44:34
I felt that I had said everything there was to say, and it wasn’t long enough. And I thought, well, why should I make up things that didn’t really happen? And I found that waning the second half I had a lot more to say, and I could have written more and it was my publisher who stopped me said enough, enough, it’s good leave it. So yeah, that’s what happened. And but I put it away because I thought I was done. And I was not done.
Bill Gasiamis 45:19
You just probably needed to leave those additional experiences and have that additional time to dwell on what had happened and how far you’ve come. So you can develop your story further by the sound of it.
Eileen Haas 45:34
Iis true. Every day brings something new and different, that I wasn’t expecting. And I learned something about myself. So it’s like, your whole life. You learn until you die, you learn, you’re always learning. And it’s the same with writing a book. There’s always something more to say. Always something new that happened to you, that you can talk about. But it did take a long time. And I think for most writers, it takes a long time.
Bill Gasiamis 46:29
Was it good to have a long project for you to have something to focus on for such a long amount of time, even though you had a gap where you let it go and you weren’t doing much? Was it good to have something to go back to and to complete? And what does it feel like when you complete the manuscript and you hand it over and you’ve got this thing? You know, that you did, even though you’re going through a difficult time because of the stroke?
Eileen Haas 47:01
Well, it’s good and bad, I feel that I can still do something, I can still contribute, I can still write. And that has not gone away. And I hope it never does, because I really enjoy it. So in that sense, it was a good thing. And also, I knew I wasn’t going back to work. I mean, this was pre COVID, so I thought who will hire me? No one.
Eileen Haas 47:40
So I just wrote a book. And it felt really good. It felt so great to know, I could still do something. And it was long term. And when I finally finished it and found a publisher, which was pretty fast. I was relieved, I felt good. It’s like I didn’t feel I mean, you always have the feeling that Oh, I could have written more, I didn’t cover this up there, there’s always more you could have done.
Eileen Haas 48:27
But if I had been like that, I would still have the book unfinished. And at some point, you have to just say, Okay, I’m done for now. I’m done. But it wasn’t hard to give it up to someone else. I know a lot of writers have a problem. They feel like it’s their baby. And they’re just not giving it to someone else. But I never felt that way. It felt good and right to hand it over to somewhere else. It was like I finally finished.
Bill Gasiamis 49:13
Yeah, I relief by the sound of it. So I’m looking at the Barnes and Noble page where the book is, has been listed online. And it has an overview of the book it says Along Came A Stroke recounts Eileen Haas’ personal experience from the instant her stroke occurred through her subsequent hospitalization, rehab and beyond. This remarkable and inspiring story is recounted with humor, triumph, and honesty. Haas’ indominable spirit and keen insights shine throughout and will encourage anyone facing a life changing event.
Eileen Haas 50:01
I’ve had people read the manuscript who never had a stroke, and they loved it. Because everyone’s had something. Maybe it wasn’t a stroke. Maybe it was cancer, maybe it was a heart attack. Maybe it was a lung problem, whatever, people, almost everyone has had something. And they all relate to having been really sick. And having gotten well. That feels really good.
Bill Gasiamis 50:49
Yeah, it’s relatable to everybody. Because although we’ve been through different experiences in life, or health concerns, or whatever the underlying issues are there for everybody. You know, people’s vulnerability, people’s loss of mobility, people’s loss of identity, people’s loss of did their sense of self, all these things do occur to people who experience a whole bunch of different conditions.
Bill Gasiamis 51:17
And as a result of that, we’ve got a lot in common. There’s similarities there with people who are not stroke survivors, and survivors of something else. So it’s good when a book can be about stroke and but then applicable to anybody and everybody. Because strokes, just the thing that makes your story unique to you, you can say, well, these are the things I learned because of stroke.
Bill Gasiamis 51:44
And I wonder if they’re similar to the things you learned because of cancer, or you learn because of a knee injury or a foot injury or a leg injury, who knows. But I love how it bridges the gap, and covers people who are not stroke survivors. That’s really cool. The reviews on your page at alongcameastroke.com/book say a beautiful memoir, a wonderful book that people of all ages can learn from.
Bill Gasiamis 52:18
Another one says informative, engaging, and darkly funny. A Long Came A Stroke is a recovery memoir everyone needs. And then the Midwest book review says readers to include not just stroke survivors, but anyone interested in the nuts and bolts of returning to normalcy after a life altering experience must place a long kind of stroke at the top of their reading list. Ideally, it will become an active part of book clubs and reading groups devoted to recovery, healing and better understanding the processes of optional survival. That’s an amazing review.
Eileen Haas 53:00
Thank you. I’m happy about them.
The Options Of Survival – Eileen Haas

Bill Gasiamis 53:09
They really say a lot. That last one specifically. The next phase of the book, you know, this person who wrote that sees it as something that needs to be part of book clubs and reading groups devoted to healing and better understanding of the processes and options of survival. That’s interesting, that last part options of survival, what is that? What are the options of survival? Specifically, what does it mean to you?
Eileen Haas 53:37
Well, when you have a stroke, or a heart attack, or knee injury or anything, you can look at the negative side of it and say, Oh, I’ve lost this, that and the other thing, I’ve lost, I’ve lost, I’ve lost. But actually, you’ve also gained and no one looks at that side, or no one tends to look at that side. I think people are afraid.
Eileen Haas 54:12
So options means you can choose to look at what you’ve lost. You can choose to look at what you’ve gained. And be positive about it. Yes, you have lost you have. I’m aware. And I wouldn’t say I haven’t I have, but I’ve also gained some really valuable things that cannot be measured.
Eileen Haas 54:45
Yes, I talk funny. But you know what? I’m really calm about things now. Nothing gets me excited. I feel like I’ve been to the worst and come out the other side and so what are you telling me something bad happened to you today? Okay, you know, I don’t think it’s a big deal.
Eileen Haas 55:11
So all these are choices, and if you choose to get better, you have the option of choosing to really get better become a better person, or you have the option to focus on what you lost, and will never regain. And, you’re not going to change. And all those things are choices. And you have to, you have to make a choice, you have to.
Bill Gasiamis 55:57
What are some of the things that you have gained? Have you gained the ability to choose better? Is that something that you’ve gained?
Eileen Haas 56:06
I think I’ve gained perspective, I’ve become I hope, a better person. Like I said, I’m calm about things, I don’t get all upset about little things anymore, you know, who cares. And before I would have gotten very upset. So I have gained, and I feel like I’m a wiser person, I’m a better person, I’m a calmer person.
Eileen Haas 56:43
And those are really big things to have gained, you know, you can’t compare that to having lost like, my normal voice. I still haven’t gotten it back and I may never get it back. But you know, I have come to the point where I am happy that I can talk at all. And I can communicate. So that’s what I mean about options and keep coming better. It’s like, you really do have choice.
Bill Gasiamis 57:25
Yeah. And you said you became a better person. So what specifically does that mean? Yes, you make better choices now. Or you have a better ability to talk and all that kind of stuff. But I feel like you’re talking about something deeper, that you specifically are better as a person, than you thought you were earlier on before the stroke. Doesn’t sound like you’re a terrible person. But it sounds like you’ve improved as a person is that right?
Eileen Haas 57:54
I think you gain compassion for other people, for the first time, I found that I could really commiserate with people and see how they were struggling and see how they were bothered by things. And I became more empathetic. It’s like, I don’t blame people as much as I used to.
Eileen Haas 58:26
And you know, you have a certain arrogance, when nothing has happened to you. And you don’t think so, you don’t feel it. But you don’t realize until something does happen, that you can be a different person and you can be a better person. Even though this awful thing has happened to you. It’s made you softer.
Bill Gasiamis 59:00
Yeah. And arrogance, less arrogance is a really good thing. I think
Eileen Haas 59:06
It’s a really good thing to become happier actually. As you become more empathetic and understanding of others, I think you’ll become a happier person.
Bill Gasiamis 59:22
Yeah, I do definitely understand people but you know, I spent some time in a wheelchair. So I completely now realize that being in a wheelchair is not just the fact that your legs don’t work, it means so many more things than that. And that people in a wheelchair are not just sitting down and that’s not easy to do, to be sitting down all the time. And that was kind of what opened my eyes the first time to the plight of other people. And then it’s like, “Ah, okay, all right.”
Bill Gasiamis 59:57
Now you know what it’s like to be anything other than somebody who walks perfectly on two legs, and doesn’t even think about their legs ever, and doesn’t even consider running upstairs or any of that stuff. Now you know what it’s like. So that’s interesting that I discovered, that I was that naive, and I was that unaware, but I just didn’t realize how much, I didn’t know how much I was ignorant about things that were all around me all day every day, in communities, in buses, in trains, in shopping malls, in just general life.
Bill Gasiamis 1:00:45
And for me, I was so unaware of it. And I’m not sure that it was terrible that I was unaware of it, I had just no lived experience or couldn’t relate to it. But now I can. And I’m glad that I can relate to it. Because that makes me more caring about other people. And it makes it possible for me to notice when somebody needs a little bit of help, and reach out to them at the right time, instead of the wrong time and assume that they’re not capable.
Bill Gasiamis 1:01:23
It’s that thing that we said about before, you know, where people over, assume that they think that you’re not capable. So they try and help from that perspective. But for me, it’s more about actually, I think I know when I need to help you, I think I can tell better, and give you space until you’re ready for the help that you need. So it’s been really interesting for me as well.
Eileen Haas 1:01:53
Now I also was in a wheelchair. And now when I see someone in a wheelchair, I smile and say hello. Because I know what it’s like to sit in that chair. So yeah, you do become a different person and a better person.
Bill Gasiamis 1:02:21
Yeah. So I will have all the links to your book, your social media, on the show notes that people can go to, they can go to recoveryafterstroke.com/episodes. And they can download the show notes. And from there, they’ll be able to get your links to go to the book. But it is available on Amazon for preorder, I believe. And you can get a copy of the Kindle for I think under $10 or something like that.
Bill Gasiamis 1:02:54
And a copy of the paperback for under $20. And it sounds like it’s going to be really worthwhile for people to pick up and read. It’s about 258 pages. So it’s not a novel by any stretch of the imagination sounds like it’s just short and sweet. And going to be like a really lovely easy read.
Eileen Haas 1:03:17
I hope so. That was my intention.
Bill Gasiamis 1:03:25
Yeah. I think you’ve achieved that.
Eileen Haas 1:03:27
Because people who have had strokes often have a hard time reading. So I purposely made it easy to read and easy to follow, for people who have had strokes to be able to read it.
Bill Gasiamis 1:03:48
Yeah, I love reading. But pages in books are difficult for me. And I prefer the audio books. So I wonder if maybe you’ll be able to get somebody to do an audio book for you at some point.
Eileen Haas 1:04:08
My publisher says she is looking into it so I have to nudge her gently again and see if she can get the ball going on that. I agree with you. I think an audio version would be great for people.
Bill Gasiamis 1:04:30
There is a stroke survivor who has been on my podcast, who does voiceover work a female. She’s a lovely lady. And what I might do is put you in touch with her just so you guys can start the conversation and perhaps maybe you can learn about the process that is necessary. And if you’d be happy for me to do that, I’ll do that. I’ll set that up just so you guys can chat about I’m sure she’d love to share some of the things that you might not know that you need to know about that.
Eileen Haas 1:05:06
That would be great. Thank you so much.
Bill Gasiamis 1:05:09
My pleasure. Thank you so much for coming on to the podcast reaching out, I really wish you the best of luck with your recovery and also with the book. And I look forward to following your story from here on.
Eileen Haas 1:05:23
Okay, thank you so much.
Bill Gasiamis 1:05:26
Well, thanks for joining us on today’s episode to learn more about my guests, including their links to their social media profiles, and other pages and to download a full transcript of the entire interview. Please go to recoveryafterstroke.com/episodes.
Bill Gasiamis 1:05:41
If you’d like to support this podcast, the best way to do it and the way that I am going to really, really really appreciate it is to leave a five star review and a few words about what the show means to you on iTunes, and Spotify. If you’re watching on YouTube comment below the video.
Bill Gasiamis 1:05:56
Like the episode, subscribe to the channel hit the notifications bell to be updated and to be notified of future episodes as they become available. Sharing the show with family and friends and social media will make it possible for people who may need this type of content to find it easier.
Bill Gasiamis 1:06:14
And that may make a massive difference to somebody that is on the way to recovery after stroke. And I will really really appreciate it. Thank you so much for listening for being here again for making this show worthwhile for leaving me amazing comments and telling me how much you love the episodes I truly appreciate you see you on the next episode.
Intro 1:06:33
Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals. The opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast are the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed.
Intro 1:06:50
All content on this website at any linked blog, podcast or video material controlled this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis, the content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing.
Intro 1:07:07
It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice. The information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances or health objectives. Do not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose treat, cure or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or is a substitute for the advice of a health professional.
Intro 1:07:27
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Intro 1:07:41
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Intro 1:07:57
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The post Along Came A Stroke – Eileen Haas appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.
1 hr 9 min
September 26, 2022 Migraine And Stroke – Kristin Brickel
Kristen Brickel always suffered from migraines. Except this one day in March 2020 her headache was actually a hemorrhagic stroke.
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Highlights:
02:12 Introduction – Migraine And Stroke
04:24 My Dogs Sensed Something Was Wrong
06:29 Ignoring The Signs
10:31 The Doctor’s Findings
15:29 After Waking Up In The Hospital
20:44 Common Struggle
28:24 Migraine And Stroke
33:30 MRI Induced A Seizure
38:12 The Dramatic Changes
47:28 Living Your Passion
53:44 Emotional Well-being
1:00:36 Dealing With Emotions
1:08:31 The Importance Of Self Compassion
Transcription:
Kristin Brickel 0:00
For about the first couple of days, I had I called it alien arm, my hand just kept kind of spinning in the air. I actually accidentally punched the ER doctor who was very, very kind she was telling me you’re going to recover everything, and we’re going to go out for steak.
Kristin Brickel 0:16
And as she was talking to me, and I was sitting there crying because I couldn’t speak to her, I accidentally punched her in the face. I was like, in my head, at least, I was saying that, it didn’t come out, but I was trying.
Intro 0:31
This is the recovery after stroke podcast, with Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after stroke.
Bill Gasiamis 0:44
Hello, and welcome to episode 217 of the recovery after stroke podcast if you are a stroke survivor with a story to share about your experience with stroke, and you have been thinking about reaching out to be a guest on the show but we’re waiting for the right time, this is it.
Bill Gasiamis 0:58
If you go to recoveryafterstroke.com/contact, you will find a form that you can fill out to apply to be a guest on the show. As soon as I receive it, I will respond with more details on how you can choose a time that works for you for both of us to meet over Zoom.
Bill Gasiamis 1:12
Also, I would love to hear from people that have any stroke-related questions. So if you have had a burning question that you’d like to ask me that’s stroke-related, please do feel free to also go to recoveryafterstroke.com/contact and select ask a question from the drop-down.
Bill Gasiamis 1:31
Once you’ve done that, again, I will receive this notification and I will compile some questions and make some shorter episodes that give you my perspective on your questions. Now, of course they cannot be medical in nature as I’m not a doctor.
Bill Gasiamis 1:45
And I cannot comment on your specific situation with regards to your medical status. But I can give you my thoughts about something that is stroke related. So I would love it if you went ahead and ask me a question.
Bill Gasiamis 1:58
And then I’ll compile an episode of say four or five questions that I’m answering and making available to everybody. And hopefully there’ll be more people just like you who wanted to know the answer to that specific question.
Introduction – Migraine And Stroke

Bill Gasiamis 2:12
So today’s guest is Kristin Brickel, who was 40 When was she thought was another migraine turned out to be a hemorrhagic stroke. Kristin Brickel, welcome to the podcast.
Kristin Brickel 2:24
Thank you. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
Bill Gasiamis 2:27
My pleasure. Thank you for being here. Tell me a little bit about what happened to you.
Kristin Brickel 2:32
So I have had migraines since I was a kid, and thought I was just having a really bad migraine for a few days. It kept escalating, and I’m a nurse. And so as nurses, we are terrible patients. And so I ignored the fact that it was getting worse.
Kristin Brickel 2:55
It started on Friday, Saturday, it was worse Sunday, it was worse. Monday, it was exponentially worse. Monday I went to my neurologist, I had an infusion because typically when my migraines would get very bad that can help.
Bill Gasiamis 3:11
What’s an infusion?
Kristin Brickel 3:14
I have an infusion of it’s was primarily magnesium and fluids. So in that would usually kind of take it back. And it did a little bit, but didn’t resolve the headache. And his nurse and I ironically enough that morning, were discussing the fact that with complex migraines, we would never know if we were having an event.
Kristin Brickel 3:38
Talk about ominous. And, you know, if we were to have an event we wouldn’t even know. So that was Monday around noon, Tuesday morning, I woke up and struggled to get out of bed. And on Wednesday morning, I really struggled to get out of bed. And my two dogs didn’t want to leave my side. And nothing was getting better.
Bill Gasiamis 4:01
Is that unusual for the dogs to not leave your side? Was there something different about that normally?
Kristin Brickel 4:08
It was different. They always were very kind of they would follow me around and they were big, they’re big dogs. They would follow me around but not this closely. And my boy dog, who’s the bigger of the two, literally was glued to my side.
My Dogs Sensed Something Was Wrong

Kristin Brickel 4:24
I mean, he didn’t even want to go out to go to the bathroom. He didn’t want to go down the stairs. He was right next to me, which he was always close to me. But this was very abnormal. And he kind of kept leaning against me when I would sit down it was very, very strange.
Kristin Brickel 4:40
And I just thought he was being extra clingy that day, you know, didn’t really think much of it kind of dismissed it because I’d been working 20 Something hour days, you know, 18, 20 hour days because it was the middle of COVID and I was in charge of 12 dialysis clinics and operations and making sure that people were here, there, and everywhere.
Kristin Brickel 5:01
So we had a routine and there was a lot going on, and I had my call with my team that morning. And we asked the same questions every morning, when I went to go start writing the same notes I wrote every morning.
Kristin Brickel 5:16
And I kept writing the second letter instead of the first. I was like, why am I doing that? That’s really annoying. And I was like, irritating myself. And I kept thinking, well, that’s really annoying, stop it.
Kristin Brickel 5:30
But I just thought, you know, I have a really bad headache, and I haven’t slept much. And that must be it, totally dismissed it. And then after the call, I would always do a summary email. So I started to type.
Kristin Brickel 5:44
And I was mistyping horribly. And when I would go to hit backspace, I kept hitting the equal sign, which is right next to it. And I did it over and over and over and over again, to the point where, just before everything kind of happened, I looked and I had something like 26 emails open because I couldn’t finish an email, which is very odd for me.
Kristin Brickel 6:09
But again, I just figured I’m frustrated and tired, and I don’t feel good. And I’m pushing. So I got up to get something to drink. And I was on the phone with a colleague, and I said, we have a call in another hour.
Ignoring The Signs – Migraine And Stroke

Kristin Brickel 6:29
So this was around 12:31 – 01:00, I’m gonna go grab something to drink, use the bathroom and get ready for our afternoon calls. And she said, you don’t sound right. And I said, well, you know, I don’t feel right but what am I going to do?
Kristin Brickel 6:45
We should call the doctor. So what are they going to do? So I dismissed it again. And I hung up with her. And when I went to go get up from my chair in my office, which was across the hall from kind of my master bedroom and my bathroom, I fell.
Kristin Brickel 7:02
And that’s when I knew that something was happening. And so my first thought as a nurse was stay calm. And I had a full length mirror in the room kind of leaning against the wall. So I kind of scooched my way over to it to check my face.
Kristin Brickel 7:20
Because I thought, well, if my face isn’t drooping, it’s not a stroke, it’s still just a migraine. That knocked me to the ground and made my hand spin uncontrollably and my foot spin uncontrollably, that makes sense.
Kristin Brickel 7:32
So I crawled over my face look fine, at least it did to me. And so I thought well, I’m going to call my mom was also a nurse, and have her come and take a look at me, not 911 I’m gonna call my mom.
Kristin Brickel 7:47
So I did. Or I tried to I should say, and my phone, I couldn’t get my passcode to unlock my phone, my phone wouldn’t unlock. So then I started to kind of panic, that’s when I started to actually panic.
Kristin Brickel 8:03
And I had a house phone couldn’t tell you what the phone number was, we just had it because it was kind of a cheaper bundle with the cable. It was up on my desk. So I managed to get myself up to grab the phone and the phone was the kind of phone where you could dial it and then hit send kind of like a cell phone.
Kristin Brickel 8:24
And I kept dialing and hitting end kind of like I was riding backwards and typing backwards. Same thing was happening with the phone. So I freaked out and put my cell phone on the ground. And I started to cry and I just started kind of shaking my head back and forth.
Kristin Brickel 8:42
And ironically, a little-known fact, if you wiggle your nose in front of your phone, you can swipe your phone open to your last calls. And that’s how I opened my phone.
Bill Gasiamis 8:54
Say that again.
Kristin Brickel 8:56
I was kind of like freaking out and going no, no, no, no, no. And my nose was going like this against my phone. And if you swipe on an iPhone, it will actually swipe over to your last call log. And that’s how I was able to call my mom.
Bill Gasiamis 9:13
Okay, that’s interesting. I’m gonna have to try that and Google it and find out what’s going on there. Because that sounds like a bit of a miracle to me.
Kristin Brickel 9:23
And it may have been because I’ve only been able to duplicate it twice sense. And mind you I had an Apple Watch which after my stroke I realized had I just clicked back on my wrist it would have dialed the emergency number.
Kristin Brickel 9:39
But at the time, I didn’t know that. But after my stroke I must do that twice a week where it starts to try to dial and I’m like no, no, no, no, all the time. But at the time I didn’t know. So I finally did get my mom on the phone.
Kristin Brickel 9:53
And I thought I was talking to her in full sentences because she was responding to me like I was so she came and was convincing me to call an ambulance and it kind of went from then.
Bill Gasiamis 10:09
And then you went to hospital and what did they discover?
Kristin Brickel 10:16
So I was conscious and cognizant, up until the hospital, I knew by the time I got into the ambulance that I wasn’t speaking, because at that point, I realized that I wasn’t communicating with anybody but my mom.
The Doctor’s Findings
Kristin Brickel 10:31
And the CAT scan because at the time, I actually had a nerve stimulator implanted in the back of my skull, so I couldn’t go into an MRI. And so they had to put me in a CAT scan to evaluate anything.
Kristin Brickel 10:48
And it showed that I had a pretty major bleed and stroke. So I had a stroke of my parietal lobe and a bleed in the back of my skull. So it was pretty diffused by then, they think it had started over the weekend and just been progressively growing.
Kristin Brickel 11:06
What I don’t remember, but I was told later is that I had very, very low blood pressure normally, and my blood pressure spiked while I was in the ER, and they had to give me multiple doses of medication to bring it back down. So I did pass out at some point.
Bill Gasiamis 11:24
Yeah, that sounds familiar. So, you know, with the bleed, do they know the underlying cause? What caused the rupture?
Kristin Brickel 11:33
They still don’t. As of right now, my neurologist and primary care’s theory is that I had COVID, before COVID was kind of known, and that there was some trickle-down effects and some bleeding and coagulation issues that were resulting from that.
Kristin Brickel 11:57
But we’ve never actually identified because I had no risk factors. So I had low blood pressure, low cholesterol. Because it was a hemorrhagic I had no known reason I had no AVM, there was no known reason for me to have a stroke.
Bill Gasiamis 12:15
You just got lucky. So how long did you spend in hospital?
Kristin Brickel 12:22
I was there for six days, probably would have been there longer. But I threatened to leave AMA. Because they weren’t helping me. I wasn’t getting PT, I wasn’t getting any sleep, it was pretty awful. Because it was in the middle of COVID and I was trying to be understanding of that.
Kristin Brickel 12:46
But there came a point where I just wanted to sleep. And so I said, yeah, I can go home and do some of the things that are not happening here. Let me go home, which is what ended up happening after I think I had been transitioned to mostly oral meds because I did start having seizures because of where the bleed had occurred.
Kristin Brickel 13:07
And so once that had transitioned from IV to oral medications, I was able to go home. So I had, I think six CAT scans while I was in there, something like that. They said to me I’ll never have another CAT scan in my life.
Bill Gasiamis 13:22
Yeah, CAT scans, MRIs. I don’t know how many I had, I can’t remember, there would have been so so many, especially MRIs. And my gosh and going into the tube of the MRI machine was always something I had to plan for.
Bill Gasiamis 13:41
Because I couldn’t cope with being enclosed in that space, which is something I didn’t realize I couldn’t cope with until it started happening but that’s interesting. So what I do is I can relate to your situation.
Bill Gasiamis 13:58
So my first bleed was small one, and then it kept getting bigger over seven or eight days, and then I ignored it and I was told, you don’t look right. And I told them I do. I was told to go get it checked out and I said I’m too busy, I’ve got work to do.
Bill Gasiamis 14:17
I did everything that I shouldn’t have done I did the exact opposite to what I should have done. And then as it bled more and more things went offline. So you know first it was my toe and then it was my foot and then it was my my leg to my knee.
Bill Gasiamis 14:34
And then it was my entire leg and then my entire left side and that’s when I finally did something about it even though I didn’t want to even though I was told to go to the hospital. I was still arguing with people then.
Bill Gasiamis 14:45
But finally got there and then the second bleed I was at work which I wasn’t supposed to be at work I went to work just for one day just to hang out with my team and then I was telling them to take me to hospital, we drove past a hospital, instead of stopping at the hospital, I told them to keep going.
Bill Gasiamis 15:09
And then, I passed out at the hospital when I finally got there the second time, and I did something similar to you like I just blacked out and I didn’t know what was happening. And there are other people have filled in the gaps, kind of as to what has happened after I passed out.
Waking Up In The Hospital After Migraine And Stroke
Bill Gasiamis 15:29
One of the things that happened is I didn’t recognize my wife. Now, when you woke up from that situation, what were you left with? What were the things that you had to overcome and recover from? And how long did it take? Because for me, it took about 18 months for things to sort of start leveling off and get better before they got worse again, what was it like for you?
Kristin Brickel 15:53
So I thought it was interesting, because I, when I went into the hospital, I had to go alone, because with COVID, they wouldn’t let anybody go with me. And so I went not being able to speak, and really not being able to communicate because it was my right side that was affected.
Kristin Brickel 16:14
And I’m right side dominant. So I couldn’t write, I couldn’t type I couldn’t speak, I did recover my speech within about six hours. But I frequently was aphasic in that I wasn’t saying the right words, or I couldn’t come up with the word I meant.
Kristin Brickel 16:38
I would hear what somebody would say. But it would take me a very long time. And it still happens now when I’m tired trying to process what somebody’s saying to me. So and I couldn’t stand or control the arm.
Kristin Brickel 16:56
So like the initial period of time for about the first couple of days, I had I call it alien arm, my hand just kept kind of spinning in the air I actually accidentally punched the ER doctor who was very, very kind she was telling me you’re going to recover everything and we’re going to go out for steak.
Kristin Brickel 17:15
And as she was talking to me, and I was sitting there crying because I couldn’t speak to her, I accidentally punched her in the face. I was like, in my head, at least I was saying that it didn’t come out but I was trying.
Kristin Brickel 17:27
And I couldn’t stop my foot from spinning. So the next day, they did try to get me up to walk like with a gait belt and a couple of people on either side of me to see if even though my foot was still kind of doing its own thing if I could emulate and thankfully, it’s ironic I had bought a peloton in the December prior to all of this, so about six months prior.
Bill Gasiamis 18:00
Stationary bike kind of exercise thing, right?
Kristin Brickel 18:03
Yeah. And then we were pretty much in lockdown. So other than when I was working, I made sure if I wasn’t commuting in and out of New York, to have to be physically in the clinics, I was making sure that I rode pretty much every day.
Kristin Brickel 18:21
And so I had strengthened my legs and my arms pretty well. So I was in pretty good shape, despite it all. And they said that actually helped me quite a bit because my blood flow was good.
Kristin Brickel 18:34
And it helps from a strength perspective. So even though my foot was sort of doing its own thing, the rest of the muscles were stabilizing. So I could kind of emulate a little bit with two people on either side of me and Walker.
Kristin Brickel 18:49
So they did try to move me around. And eventually by the time I went home, I could I could walk as long as it was fairly flat. And you know, I didn’t have to go up or down stairs and that sort of thing. Up and down stairs was a little dicey. I certainly didn’t do that alone. And I couldn’t be alone for six weeks.
Kristin Brickel 19:11
Because I kept having mild seizures even once I actually had a major seizure three days after the stroke itself where I thought I was having a secondary stroke, because it was actually more severe than the first. The symptoms lasted longer. The speech did not come back for almost, I think 10 or 12 hours that time. And so I thought I was never going to speak again.
Bill Gasiamis 19:38
What’s family life like a home. Do you live on your own or do you have people around you?
Kristin Brickel 19:43
At the time I lived with my boyfriend. We were together for eight years at that point, and our two dogs and he was going out of his mind because he couldn’t come to the hospital. And my mom was about 20 minutes away.
Kristin Brickel 19:57
So when I came home I used to joke that I went to daycare every day. Either he would drop me off at my parents before he went to work, or my mom would come down and work at our house when she could, so that somebody was with me all the time.
Kristin Brickel 20:16
But it was tough and actually thankfully, my uncle had done homecare physical therapy his whole career. And so he’s the one who tried to help me rehab a lot of things. If not for him, I would not have probably thought to do some of the exercises that I did.
Kristin Brickel 20:34
Because I didn’t really get any like, the person who came to evaluate me for OT was like, well, you’re already too advanced. I was like, I can’t do anything. What do you mean, I’m too advanced?
Common Struggle
Kristin Brickel 20:44
I can’t move my hand with any purpose, I can’t feed myself. I can’t write. I can’t brush my hair. I can’t do anything he’s like, but you can stack coins. Oh, that’s helpful. Totally useful in my day to day, because that’s what I have to do every day is stack coins.
Bill Gasiamis 21:01
Yeah, I know, it’s very interesting. Before we started, I was talking about how we’re not supposed to have anything in common you and I, we’re from completely different parts of the world, you know, we don’t know each other, we have nothing in common except this stroke thing.
Bill Gasiamis 21:19
And yet, we all struggle with the same struggles. The ability for me to get physical therapy, after the first and second bleed was zero. And I couldn’t type an email, I didn’t remember who came to visit me, I couldn’t work, I couldn’t drive, I couldn’t go to the toilet.
Bill Gasiamis 21:39
Because I was too exhausted by the time I got back. There were so many issues and nobody thought that I needed to have physical therapy, or cognitive therapy, or an evaluation or anything.
Bill Gasiamis 21:54
And I went months and months without anybody saying anything except for my counselor, my psychologist who said to me, have you ever heard of a neuropsych? I said no, what’s that? She said go and see a neuropsychologist because they’re going to help you work out your cognitive deficits, and will give you some skills to help you improve them or overcome them will get better.
Bill Gasiamis 22:21
And I was like, okay, I’ll do that. And we have a public system here, which you can access, but you have to wait for services but there’s a long queue, or a lot of people waiting to get through. And again, it didn’t occur to me to just go private, and pay whatever it costs, I think it was going to be four or $500 for that evaluation.
Bill Gasiamis 22:42
So I waited nine months to get access to a neuropsychologist through this public system. And in the nine months, things started to improve by themselves. And as the clot that had developed in my head started to get absorbed or dealt with by the head.
Bill Gasiamis 22:58
And it started to decrease in size, more and more of my brain came back online. So by the time I went to this evaluation, they were convinced that there was nothing wrong with me, and that I didn’t need anything anyway.
Bill Gasiamis 23:11
And it’s like dammit now you guys think that there was nothing wrong with me, like I’m pulling the wool over your eyes, which is not true. So that was interesting, accessing any type of service that was going to support and even information, you know, being told that do this or look at that, or contact these people or have a look at this organization.
Bill Gasiamis 23:41
There was nothing of that as well. And I had to discover it all on my own. My wife had to help me discover it. It’s just like, people with the worst kind of condition like a neurological condition where their brain is not working at the same time. And you’re just sending them out there and you’re expecting them to pick up the pieces on their own. It’s so weird.
Kristin Brickel 24:07
And then you’re exhausted.
Bill Gasiamis 24:10
What’s even more weird is that I expected that that was unique in Australia, not the entire world.
Kristin Brickel 24:18
No, and I’ve actually had so many people reach out to me that are within the same age range or that have family members in the same age range that either have TBI or strokes that had similar experiences because we look fine.
Kristin Brickel 24:38
And so if you look fine. The assumption is you are fine. And because I recovered my speech in the hospital, the literally they would come in like I remember saying to my mom at one point, I haven’t eaten in days, because they keep bringing in food and putting it on a tray across the room that I can’t get to.
Intro 25:02
If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. Like, how long will it take to recover? Will I actually recover? What things should I avoid in case I make matters worse?
Intro 25:19
Doctors will explain things that obviously, you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask. If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you it’s called seven questions to ask your doctor about your stroke.
Intro 25:46
These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition. And they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery, head to the website. Now, recoveryafterstroke.com and download the guide, it’s free.
Kristin Brickel 26:05
And then even when they bring it in front of me, I can’t get it into my mouth because I can’t feed myself because my hand isn’t working and my left hand I was never great with. So you know, I’m trying here, but most of it’s on my hospital gown or in my lap.
Kristin Brickel 26:22
So we’re not doing so great here. Like I’m hungry and I’m cranky, and I have a headache. And there’s a lady down the hall screaming, okay, it’s not going well. And then, you know, just trying to get help, even in the hospital setting.
Kristin Brickel 26:37
So like you figure in acute setting, you get assistance. I wasn’t so when I went home, forget about it. In fact, I remember they ordered my neurologist is fantastic. And I have to say he’s, if not for him and my primary care doctor, I’m not sure I could have progressed the way I did.
Kristin Brickel 26:59
Because they’re both very, they’re pragmatic, but they’re also stay on top of kind of current everything. I don’t know when they sleep because they’re with me constantly. But they are very, very holistic, and that they stay at the top of their field, but they also look at the whole person, you know, you’re not just a 15 minute appointment.
Kristin Brickel 27:21
And so they were very cognizant of making sure that I wasn’t getting too depressed, you know, that I was kind of taking care of myself, and how was I doing? And they knew they’ve known me for years. And so they knew me as a person before, and they could see the difference in me after.
Kristin Brickel 27:41
And so they knew where my deficits were inherently from that thankfully, to say, you know, I know you can’t get assistance with this, but I recommend you work on you know, your dexterity or work on your fine motor work on speech, you know, what is working, what isn’t working, that sort of thing.
Kristin Brickel 28:03
But if they didn’t know me, so well, I’m not sure I would have done that. Or if I wasn’t a nurse and hadn’t helped other people. I’d seen go through it. I’m not sure I would have known what to do. And I was so tired that the thought of even looking for information. I mean, just getting through the day was exhausting. Nevermind researching.
Migraine And Stroke
Bill Gasiamis 28:24
Yeah, absolutely. So do you link your migraines? Do you personally link your migraines to this underlying condition that you didn’t know about Maybe and has the migraines different? Have they changed change now?
Kristin Brickel 28:46
Yes. I actually I just was reading something a couple of weeks ago, ironically, about somebody that they believe was having was the article I was reading that had been having like many bleeds, they actually thought that for years their migraines were were not actually migraines, they were actually almost like small TIAs over time.
Kristin Brickel 29:11
And my neurologist has said that that’s really my only risk factor was the migraines. And so because I started with them so young. I don’t know. And I had a pretty major head injury in 2006 because I had a pretty bad head on collision. And so I don’t know if that was a factor as well.
Kristin Brickel 29:35
Because I certainly you know, I went up and over an airbag with a seatbelt on so that certainly didn’t help my brain or my skull. But that’s really the only other impetus that could have potentially led to this, at least that I can backtrack to.
Kristin Brickel 29:56
And the migraines have changed such that I had I had a headache for probably the first three and a half to four months without relief. Now I get them more frequently than they did, I had gone almost 10 years where once I had the nerve stimulator implanted, and I had to retrain the nerves.
Kristin Brickel 30:21
I really very rarely got migraines anymore. I had just started getting them again in February of that year of 2020. So I do think there was some correlation there. And again, I they think I probably had COVID in like December, January.
Kristin Brickel 30:38
And so that may have led to all of it. But they’ve substantially changed in that I get them much more frequently I’m back to pretty much every couple of days. They have some version of a headache, whether it’s knocking me out, or I deal with it. It’s there.
Intro 30:58
Yeah. Interesting. Are you kind of thinking about any future incident? Do you have those concerns about is it going to happen again, or anything like that? What about that?
Kristin Brickel 31:13
Yeah, I will say it took me it was probably four or five months. Before I made the connection, that every Monday and Tuesday because it happened on a Wednesday, every Monday and Tuesday, I would frenetically try to get things done.
Kristin Brickel 31:34
And it didn’t matter if it was cleaning, or when I went back to work if it was getting work done. But I would have this insane anxiety about getting things done on Monday and Tuesday. And it took me almost like five months to connect that I was doing it because I was afraid of having another one on a Wednesday, like Wednesday’s started to scare me.
Kristin Brickel 31:55
And to this day, like I still don’t always know when it’s Wednesday, it’s like my brain doesn’t want to know that Wednesday’s exist anymore. And it’s been two years. So it’s sort of funny. But I also, I had COVID, after two years, I officially was diagnosed with COVID.
Kristin Brickel 32:11
And I’ve had something like 35 COVID tests that were all negative in the span of the two years. I actually got COVID at the end of May. And then and I was okay was kind of mild, cold symptoms, actually, I thought I just had allergies, and felt better.
Kristin Brickel 32:30
And then a couple of weeks later felt really horrible. And I felt exactly like I did just prior to the stroke. And I started having the same exact pattern of symptoms that dizziness, the kind of fatigue, the off balance stuff, the mistyping, and I was like, oh, no and I immediately asked for an MRI.
Kristin Brickel 32:52
And I said, I know I’m being overly ridiculous, but I didn’t do it last time. And so I don’t want to just dismiss it. And my primary care doctor said, Listen, I can tell you, I’ve looked at your scans over and over again. It wouldn’t have mattered if you went to the hospital sooner because I would have told you if you asked me not to get TPA.
Kristin Brickel 33:18
They wouldn’t have changed the outcome, it actually would have potentially killed you because of the way the bleed happened. So he said I actually think to some extent that was like a protection for you.
MRI Induced A Seizure
Kristin Brickel 33:30
But he said, I will order the MRI because I know that you’re scared. And when I had, the MRI actually induce a seizure it was the weirdest thing. But it did show that everything is in status quo.
Bill Gasiamis 33:49
Is it psychosomatic Did you have a part to play in that?
Kristin Brickel 33:54
No. So apparently, oddly enough, and I was like, did someone really think that might have been important to tell me two years ago, apparently, because of the area where the reason that I have the seizures is because of the area that was impacted because I wasn’t epileptic prior even though I guess there’s some folks that believe that migraines are a form of seizure, but never officially.
Kristin Brickel 34:28
Because I had said to him it was the strange thing in the MRI, you know, when the signal sounds change, as it kind of moves around like it sounds strange. And it kind of like changes signal sound.
Kristin Brickel 34:41
So when it got to the third sound, I was like, I’ve never heard that sound before. And I mean, I’ve had so many MRIs. It was like, I never heard that sound before. And as soon as that sound changed, and I didn’t recognize it, that’s when the seizure started and I was like, Oh, come on.
Kristin Brickel 34:56
And then when the next signal sound came on, I recognized it, the seizure stopped. And the next signal sound because it’s like five or six signals. The next one came on, I didn’t recognize it again, it started again. And then the next one I recognize it stopped.
Kristin Brickel 35:11
It was the like, the creepiest experience, I was like, just no one see that this is happening is the person watching that screen not seeing what is going on. Meanwhile, I’m trying not to have a massive panic attack in this tube. But no one’s monitoring my blood pressure or my pulse so they didn’t know that I was having a panic check in there.
Kristin Brickel 35:33
But I always worry. What if it were to happen again? Because now I do live alone. And I mean, I was alone that day other than the dogs, because my ex was at work, but he would have come home eventually. So I do get a little bit overly cautious.
Bill Gasiamis 35:54
Yeah, fair enough. Better to be overly cautious than not at all, which we’ve been. And that doesn’t end well. But you don’t know what you don’t know. So you behave appropriately. And then you learn hopefully you learn from that. And then you become more aware of yourself and your body and you take action quicker, hopefully.
Kristin Brickel 36:22
I won’t live in fear. Let me be clear, like I am afraid. But I also am mindful that I will live my life in fear. Because one of the things that taught me and this is, and I say this to people, and they think I’m crazy when I say it, but I actually feel like the stroke gave me back my life. As strange as that sounds.
Bill Gasiamis 36:41
So tell me about this you feel like the stroke gave you back your life situation. This is interesting.
Kristin Brickel 36:49
Yeah, don’t get me wrong. It’s it’s completely changed my life in that, like my relationship ended I left my job. That wasn’t my career for 20-plus years. It’s changed a lot, I can’t really be a full-time nurse anymore. Because the fatigue level that I have is just not sustainable for a typical 12-hour shift. I can do short shifts, but that’s difficult. I was an administrator, so I was doing really high-level function.
Kristin Brickel 37:21
And I could do it, but it was so taxing that I couldn’t do anything else. But when I say that I say it because it gave me a different perspective. And it took me a year for it to give me a different perspective, because for that first year I dug into, it’s taken everything, I won’t let it take anything else.
Kristin Brickel 37:46
And so I like bowled through like, bullied my way through that first year unsuccessfully, like miserably, unsuccessfully. Just trying to like return to normal. And that wasn’t really normal. I wasn’t me. I wasn’t my old self. But I was trying to be and everybody expected me to be because I looked like me. And I talked like me.
The Dramatic Changes After The Migraine And Stroke

Kristin Brickel 38:12
And if they caught me at the right time, I could think quickly. And like one of my colleagues said to me one day, you’re still quicker than most people. And I said, Well, I think I should say thank you. But not really sure. Because you’re catching me around 9:30 In the morning, so I’m still pretty good. Ask me that again at 1:00 I probably won’t say that.
Kristin Brickel 38:38
But it was because I knew that was kind of my world. Like I knew that environment so well that I could do a lot of responses almost automatically, because it had just been my universe for so long. And a year went by almost well actually a full year went by and I started to realize that I just would not do what I was doing I was just repeating the same pattern that had led to the stroke of this high stress and no downtime and not taking care of myself.
Kristin Brickel 39:19
And so I started to really back off and try to take care of myself, which ultimately led to my leaving the job. And when I did that I took some time to really evaluate the prior year and like look at it and thought, wow, what was I thinking? And so it led me to a path that I’m really grateful for where I was able to really kind of blame myself again that I gotten lost along the way.
Kristin Brickel 39:48
And that I never want to go back to that last person again. And I don’t believe that that’s if the stroke had happened. If the stroke hadn’t happened, I don’t believe I would have gotten there because I had just gotten into this, like hamster wheel pattern.
Bill Gasiamis 40:05
That’s so powerful. This is exactly my experience. It’s so weird, you know, it took me maybe three or four years to get to that point. But something significant happened in the first 12 months, which was that I went in discovered, did this course, you know, first time, you know that I’d ever done a course that was about kind of self help type, of course.
Bill Gasiamis 40:28
But it was about connecting with your heart and discovering how your head operates, and then your gut and all that type of stuff, it was called mBraining multiple brain integration techniques. And what it helped me do was discover that I was on a path previously, that was not sustainable.
Bill Gasiamis 40:49
And it wasn’t what led to the bleed in my head, the bleed in my head was as a result of an AVM. But I had done a lot of things to support the AVM to not be healthy, and to pop and all that type of thing. I was like, Okay, I get it. So. So it’s, there’s an AVM there. But I’m creating the perfect storm around that for it to do its thing.
Bill Gasiamis 41:12
And I need to stop doing that stuff. And I don’t think I ever would have stopped being the guy that I was before stroke, if I hadn’t been through that experience. So I really relate to what you’re saying. So a lot of things changed for you after stroke, your job changed your relationship status changed. What other things changed? And were all of those of your choosing?
Kristin Brickel 41:50
Most were not of my choosing the I was terrified to go back to work. And at the same time, I felt like it was the only thing that I still knew. Because ironically, I still couldn’t write or type. A week before I went, I was due to go back, like when I leave was going to run out. And because of the position that I had, I had full pay for the period of time that I was out.
Kristin Brickel 42:16
And then once that date hit, it was going to drop, like my pay was going to drop my benefits were going to go to to full cost etc. and I was terrified because I thought I can’t afford that we can’t afford that house I was covering my boyfriend is a domestic partner.
Kristin Brickel 42:33
And so we can’t afford this so that Okay, I gotta go back to work. And a week prior, I still couldn’t write or type. And I was like, how am I going to do this? Like, what am I gonna do, I’m gonna have to record every meeting and then take the time to do what with it because I still couldn’t do anything with those recordings. And I thought, I am not gonna be able to process it.
Kristin Brickel 42:56
And so I got on the phone with my boss to make a plan to kind of step back into my job slowly. And when I got on the phone with her, I sat down like I always did with a notebook and a pen because I’m a compulsive note-taker. And I could write perfectly. And I mean, perfect penmanship and if I showed you like the page before, and the page of notes I wrote with her, I got off the phone and burst into tears, because it was like, what just happened?
Kristin Brickel 43:27
I felt like I was having an out-of-body experience, it was the most bizarre thing. And the next day, I got a phone call about a doctor’s appointment, and I couldn’t write the date, and the time that they called to tell me. So it was like I could only write notes, if they were related to work. That would’ve been my first clue that it was not healthy.
Kristin Brickel 43:50
Because that was all my brain could operate on. Because that’s all I had been doing and so my boyfriend at the time, hated my job thought that it was taking up too much time wich it was and I was commuting. And then he really didn’t want me to go back to work. But he was also concerned about the financial piece as well because you know, just the reality of that.
Kristin Brickel 44:15
So he was sort of semi-supportive, but concerned and trying to convince me to do something different. And I was just bullheaded about it because I thought well, I just wrote page notes. So what’s the problem here like this is obviously going to be good for me.
Kristin Brickel 44:30
Totally irrational, or at least I had convinced myself that was rational at the time. And so when I went back to work, the fatigue and the absolute I mean, the second day that I was back, I literally got to about one o’clock and my full body just shut down. I couldn’t even function and I didn’t start till nine that day, which is was late for me.
Kristin Brickel 44:54
And by one o’clock I was so exhausted, that I couldn’t even formulate a sentence, I had to force myself to go and lay down. And I slept for four and a half hours, because I was just so tired. So fast forward a couple of months to this argument that we had.
Kristin Brickel 45:15
And he said, I’m done, I can’t do this, I can’t watch you kill yourself, you know, like, I can’t do it. And we subsequently made peace with the fact that we needed some time and space because he wasn’t dealing with it either. So there was lots of other factors there. But he had asked me to move out. So I did, and that was devastating. And so then I threw myself further into work.
Kristin Brickel 45:45
Not great. And then work started falling apart, because I really couldn’t do it, I really physically couldn’t maintain the level that I needed to do what I what I was doing. And so over the course of time, I took a couple of weeks off intersperse to kind of try to decompress.
Kristin Brickel 46:07
And, you know, we went straight from heavy COVID, to COVID vaccinations to this, it was always something, there was always something coming up. And somehow I always ended up, I’m very organized and meticulous. And so I would always end up being the point person, because I didn’t ever say no. And very type A, and so people different depended on that. And I jus couldn’t maintain it. And so at the end of it, it was a mutual decision to just say, this isn’t working.
Bill Gasiamis 46:45
It sounds familiar, a lot of people would relate to that, trying to get back to your old life or your previous life or the same stage you’re at, or I’m not sure what the word is, but, and then having a realization that you can’t. And then the great part is a lot of people have a realization that they shouldn’t, because it wasn’t healthy.
Bill Gasiamis 47:08
And because it was leading to serious ill health. And I think the blessing is is that you got away with it, to an extent as in, you know, still above ground. And I’m the same and the people who have been on this podcast are the same. So we’ve had that second chance, we’ve had the opportunity to reevaluate.
Living Your Passion

Bill Gasiamis 47:28
And people who are early on in their journey, hopefully are listening to this, and they’re going, Oh, okay, here’s maybe another sign that I should pay attention to the changes that I need to make in my life. And it is possible to live life similar but in a different way, in a more supportive or more gentle way.
Bill Gasiamis 47:52
And I’m proof of that your proof of that I have every Friday off from my job from work to be here to make sure that I can interview people on my podcast, and do all the admin side that’s necessary, that would never have been possible before my old life, it wouldn’t have been possible for me to do that.
Bill Gasiamis 48:15
As a result might work an hour or two extra Monday to Thursday, just to fit in all the things that need to be done. But that gives me this amazing opportunity to be here on a Friday, your Thursday, and do these interviews. And then also, sometimes they lead to Saturday.
Bill Gasiamis 48:38
And Saturday might be a half day or full day. But that allows me to live my passion to express myself to meet people that are similar to me from around the world to have amazing conversations. And I didn’t realize how much I needed that in my life.
Bill Gasiamis 48:56
And I don’t know that I ever would have found that I only would have been hanging out with work people talking work stuff, speaking with clients, spending Saturdays running around for them, and all that type of thing. And I never would have got to experience this side of it. So and you know what’s great is it didn’t come to me consciously or it wasn’t. It wasn’t something that I planned out.
Bill Gasiamis 49:25
I fell into a podcast don’t ask me how you fall into a podcast whole thing, right? But you do. It kinda was an idea. I tried it out. And it happened and then I kept doing it. And then what I kept doing was looking for ways to solve problems that were related to the podcast little problems like, what microphone should I use? I just solved that problem for the next month or two.
Bill Gasiamis 49:52
I didn’t try and solve another one. Then editing was an issue and then uploading that was an issue with all these things. And I kind of just kept rolling with it and found that I had this other skill, I suppose. And I love it. And that’s as a result of the stroke. So I know where you’re coming from, I totally get it. What is your work life like now? How much of it do you do?
Kristin Brickel 50:23
So I actually right now I’m just doing and I don’t say just because it’s still a lot of work. But I’m doing network marketing for now. Because it allows me to kind of flex my time and do a lot. And what I didn’t realize similar to what you were just talking about, I didn’t realize that I had a bunch of sort of random skill sets that I’d picked up over the years, because of some of the different jobs and because I’d always been that go to person that I’ve always wanted to get things done.
Kristin Brickel 50:55
So if somebody else couldn’t do it, I try to figure it out. I’d google it, I’d YouTube it, whatever I’d figure it out. And I had a lot of random skill sets that I have started to refine and build, and I’m actually kind of good at some of them, and I enjoy them.
Kristin Brickel 51:10
So it’s been fun to kind of take a lot of the pieces of my job that I used to enjoy, and still do them and take, like, I love taking care of people I love it. And so I can still do that in a different way. So I’m still doing health and wellness, I’m still helping people, but it’s just in a different way and that’s okay.
Kristin Brickel 51:33
And I’ve helped a lot of people along the way, just in sharing my story. To understand that you can be okay. You know, I’ve had people that I work with reach out to me and say, I can’t believe you had a stroke, like I didn’t know, like, you gap happened. True story.
Kristin Brickel 51:57
Or people that, you know, I went to school with years ago, and a lot of folks have said, you know, I’m grateful that I’ve heard your story, because at least I know, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. It’s not, there isn’t, because I think some people assume, and like I did a lot with I tried to do a fair amount of stroke awareness anyway.
Kristin Brickel 52:19
But during May, which is National Stroke Awareness Month, in the US, I did a fair amount of videos where I said, you know, when you think of stroke, what do you think of? I want you to think of me because people don’t think of younger people having strokes. And and we actually are a pretty big group. And it’s like people always assume it’s an older, sicker person. And it’s not.
Bill Gasiamis 52:45
Yeah, it’s huge. It’s huge. I mean, you’re 40 and I was 37. And I’ve interviewed so many people between the ages, who had their stroke between the ages of say 30 and 50. It’s just intense. Most of the people on my podcast more than 220 people or something, we’re between that age group, I imagine there’s a few of them, only a few of them that weren’t.
Bill Gasiamis 53:11
And that might just be a sign of the fact that it’s Instagram or people, or that aren’t on the I don’t know, but very, very young thing, that many of us have got a lot of wrinkles on our faces yet. So emotionally, you’re what cognitively and you know, mentally it sounds like you’re pretty able to commit yourself of everything. And, you know, use your brain to get out of a lot of challenges or problems or things that are going wrong, emotionally.
Emotional Well-being
Bill Gasiamis 53:44
How are you like emotionally? Because you went through not only the emotional rollercoaster of stroke, but also then the emotional rollercoaster of you know, being in a breakup that ended an eight-year relationship. So have you become aware that you need to do some work in that space?
Kristin Brickel 54:08
Yeah, so it’s ironic because at the time, I just dove further into work, which was the initial which puts the whole basis of the problem. And then when work was taken away to, I really had to like, look at myself, and which is why I say now I can look at it.
Kristin Brickel 54:28
Now I can be cognizant and more aware of myself, emotionally and mentally because very early on, I was just angry and frustrated all the time. And angry because nobody was understanding that I was just exhausted and getting through my day was like, earth shattering ly exhausting. angry because nobody could understand that.
Kristin Brickel 54:53
Just because I was a week didn’t mean I was able to have a full on conversation or that You know, at six o’clock at night, trying to converse with me, that’s probably not going to end well. And so it took, actually having everything removed to dig into all of that.
Kristin Brickel 55:13
And once I started to, I really started to look at, Why did I let work kind of consume me? What was I sort of running away from what was kind of the root of that. And a lot of it was just, you know, we had to like, my ex, and I had stopped communicating.
Kristin Brickel 55:33
And instead of dealing with that, we just both kind of dove into work independently. And so it once I had to start looking at that, I was like, Okay, what was my part in that? You know, I can’t speak for him. But, you know, I can identify what pieces I think were his part in it too. And so we’ve spoken sense about those things and identified kind of where we both went wrong.
Kristin Brickel 55:56
But it took that full year to really be able to do that. And even now, there are times I think to myself, Lord, why? You know, I say to people all the time, if it won’t matter in five minutes, five weeks, five days, you know, that whole thing, don’t let it bother you.
Kristin Brickel 56:12
But if you said that to me two years ago, I would have been like, yeah, okay, whatever. I’m pissed off right now. But now I really try not to let it bother me. Or I will say it out loud. And I’m like, Okay, I’m moving in. Because it isn’t worth my energy. I don’t have enough energy to waste. And maybe that’s the crux of it is I don’t have the energy to to spend on it anymore.
Bill Gasiamis 56:35
Yeah, I noticed how much more emotional dramas drain me. So if I have a fallout with my wife, or if I do the wrong thing, like I do, from time to time. And then it blows up, because I think I’m not wrong, or I think I’m right, and I’m trying to convince her and I’m trying to make her wrong, or whatever I’ve been doing, I find that I used to have stamina.
Bill Gasiamis 57:03
You know, in the old days, when I was younger, I could go for two weeks, sticking to my guns and being arrogant and being obnoxious, and being all those things, and then giving her a hard time for two weeks. By the time I got to the end of those two weeks, I actually didn’t know what the hell I was upset about, or angry about. It had been such a long time, I’d forgotten what the cause of the argument was.
Bill Gasiamis 57:31
And it was just my 20-year-old self trying to navigate away through not knowing anything about you know, being dumb, pretty much 20-year-old, who doesn’t know anything about anything. And then, recently, after all the stroke stuff, it’s like, man, I want to resolve it within minutes if I can. Because if I resolve it in minutes, then I don’t have to have the low energy that it takes to get through for a week or two. A it’s not good for my wife, or me it’s not healthy. There’s nothing good about it. It’s usually always trivial.
Bill Gasiamis 58:14
And I try to just resolve it as quickly as possible. So the other day, I said something stupid. That wasn’t derogatory, or that kind of rude. It was just something dumb. And of course, she lost it at me. And then I was shocked why did she lose it at me? And then it was like, Oh, hang on a sec. Did I say something wrong? Did I stuff up? I did. I tried to apologize. But she had an appointment to go to she jumped in the car and stormed off. And then I rang her, and she didn’t answer.
Bill Gasiamis 58:51
And then I let it sit for about 10 minutes or 15. And then I rang her back and said, Let me apologize. Just let me apologize. And she said what are you going to apologize for? And then I told her all the things I was going to apologize for and then she accepted it because it was legitimate.
Bill Gasiamis 59:10
My apology was legitimate. I was an idiot. I said the wrong thing. I overreacted I gave her the whole spiel of what I did wrong. And then when she came back, she was still a little bit you know, sniggly, you know, she was kind of not wrapped with me. She wasn’t gonna just let me get away with it. And the next day it was completely gone.
Bill Gasiamis 59:10
But that’s a skill that I wish I had a long time ago I would have wasted way less time on idiotic things. And now I just try and get it out of the way like within minutes for oh my god, I’ve done the wrong thing again, okay. Full on into apology mode, and I’m trying to learn not to do it again. I’m not so good at learning not to be an idiot that just happens.
Bill Gasiamis 59:59
But I am really Good at apologizing for my behavior and stopping the drama from spreading to the next day and the day after that. And if we’ve got a lovely event coming up into the lovely event, you know, that’s three or four days down the road.
Bill Gasiamis 1:00:17
It just has to be that way. Because energy is so precious and emotionally, like if I have an argument with somebody like that I can’t get anything else done, I can’t be productive anywhere else really takes away my ability to be productive.
Dealing With Emotions
Kristin Brickel 1:00:36
I used to be able to multitask the anger and something. After the stroke, it was like the anger overtook everything, the frustration overtook everything. So it was, and I still don’t multitask well anymore. Not that anyone truly multitasks. I mean, they’ve proven that over and over, nobody actually multitasks.
Kristin Brickel 1:00:58
But we believe we do. But what I used to be able to do simultaneously even putting like a TV on at the same time, I’m doing something I can’t do that. I squirrel, I am easily distracted. And I never was I could I could really focus. And that is I can but I can be easily distracted. So I have to be cognizant of that. And I just don’t have the energy to spare.
Bill Gasiamis 1:01:31
Yeah, mindful is a word that’s overused and comes up. For me when you’re saying that it sounds like you have to be mindful on the task. You have to pay attention to the task that you’re doing and do that well. And not think about everything else that you’re thinking about plus trying to do that task, because then that task doesn’t get done well.
Kristin Brickel 1:01:53
Or it takes me four times as long.
Bill Gasiamis 1:01:59
Yep. I think a lot of people will relate to this stuff, because it’s a very similar conversation that I’ve had with a lot of other people I’ve interviewed about in stroke is how, you know, things become there’s kind of a level of complexity that stroke creates, but then it teaches you a level of making things not complex, like trying to break them down to basic tasks, and not overdoing it.
Kristin Brickel 1:02:31
Keeping it simple, where I used to be very, I’m still a complex thinker, but I used to, I think, make things harder than they had to be. Sometimes just to layer it and other times, probably just unnecessarily and then I try to keep things as simple as possible, because again, it’s from an energy conservation perspective, like I think of that analogy with the the battery.
Kristin Brickel 1:03:02
As a stroke survivor, like you just your battery doesn’t recharge as well, it doesn’t stay charged as long and it takes longer to recharge. And that’s truly the best example. Because it is so difficult to recharge like I had an event this weekend. And I was going going going and so it’s Thursday, and I’m still trying to recover from three days ago.
Bill Gasiamis 1:03:29
Yes, the whole planning the next two or three days of recovery, when you know you want to go somewhere and do something that you must go and do because you’d love it or it’s going to be fun or whatever. And then knowing that I’ve got to do nothing for the next two or three days to get able to have time periods.
Bill Gasiamis 1:03:50
That’s so weird. I remember that whole situation, you know, learning about that at the beginning, which was our main or that was such a fun time. Why am I so wiped out for three days. And then it’s like, okay, it happened again, and it happened again, a nail, it’s, we’re gonna have a fun time.
Bill Gasiamis 1:04:10
And then we’ve got nothing planned for the following day at all. And I hate my fun days, I like Fridays or Saturdays so that I’ve got a day ahead of me where I can rest and recover. And that amount of days has decreased over time, by the way. So it used to be a whole bunch of days now it’s a day or half a day where where I have to have nothing to do so that I can kind of recharge the battery. Yeah, exactly, give it more time to recharge.
Kristin Brickel 1:04:44
And I have seen it shorten even in a couple of years it shortened a little bit. Not quite as much as I’d like it to. But I also really pushed the envelope this past weekend and probably farther than I have in a very long time and I didn’t feel good to begin with. So not feeling great. And then pushing it was like, I can do this, I can do this.
Kristin Brickel 1:05:09
And my Sunday night, I was like, I can’t do this. I can’t do this anymore. I looked at my friend of mine that I was rooming with in the hotel, and I said, I can’t keep going. My brain is totally against the wall and sliding down it. And we’re gonna fall flat on our face and 10 minutes after I said that I’d like tripped going up the stairs. And I was like, see? See, this is what starts to happen this is not good.
Bill Gasiamis 1:05:36
So now looking forward into the future, what do you hope you’re going to achieve and overcome? What’s the next phase? Have you planned it? Are you planning? Are you just taking it month by month?
Kristin Brickel 1:05:57
Taking it month by month. I mean, I have goals. But I think where I used to have, you know, kind of a three-year and a five-year plan and all of this stuff. Since everything happened, I realized that I mean, I have three months and not to be morbid, I don’t mean that I’m going to die in three months. But I kind of tried to chunk things up into quarters to a degree, you know, kind of what am I doing for the next quarter? What am I doing for the next, you know, six months?
Kristin Brickel 1:06:32
And that’s probably about as far out as I think right now. Unless it’s something that has to be planned further out. Not that I don’t have bigger goals, but I sort of keep them very much on the sideline and adapt and adjust as I need to. I’m much more adaptable than I used to be, I was never a very good go with the flow kind of person.
Kristin Brickel 1:06:54
And I still like to plan. Still a planner, but I’m much more adaptable than I used to be out of necessity. And so my biggest level of planning is is kind of what we were just talking about, like, Okay, I know that this is coming up, I need to make sure that I blocked time before and after, so that I can enjoy it. You know, there’s a wedding here, I need to make sure that I have you know, a day before and a day after, so that I can really be present.
Kristin Brickel 1:07:22
But I try to make sure I’m really present for things and encourage other people to do the same. So my biggest goal in life, outside of you know, kind of overarching things is just to make sure that I can have a positive impact on the world. And that sounds very lofty. But that’s really, that’s really it.
Bill Gasiamis 1:07:43
It sounds like also you’ve removed deadlines, and therefore you’re giving yourself more space to get to somewhere. And that’s really helpful, because therefore there’s less disappointment and less opportunity to give yourself a hard time. Oh, my gosh, I haven’t reached my deadline. And I’m never going to do this and going through all that stuff.
Kristin Brickel 1:08:04
Yeah, I mean, I still set like objectives, you know, like, I want to do this by here, when I used to beat myself up if I didn’t, I don’t anymore, because I really evaluate, did I not get there because I didn’t try hard enough or I didn’t do the work? Or did I not get there because something else happened or got in the way or whatever.
The Importance Of Self-Compassion
Kristin Brickel 1:08:31
I’m much more realistic and kind to myself, I was always kind to other people about stuff like that I could give my team’s leeway about why they couldn’t Oh, well, your child was sick, or your mom was sick, I could do all of that for them. But when it came to me, there was no excuse, there was no leeway. And I was mean to myself, I had no compassion for myself. And I’ve learned to give myself some grace.
Bill Gasiamis 1:09:01
Self-compassion, that is an awesome thing for people to remember. And isn’t it interesting, you know, I often help people and support people coach people as well through this. And I say to them, if you were the person coaching and supporting somebody, and you’re giving advice to that person about something, you know, what would you say to them, and then they would come up with all these amazing things to say to them and all that type of great, that’s the right thing to do.
Bill Gasiamis 1:09:32
Now, take some of your own advice. Because you’re the same person, you’re just as important. You need the same level of understanding and support and you need to give yourself a break at we’re our own worst critics. And we can be our own worst enemies. But many people wouldn’t speak to their friends the way they speak to themselves.
Kristin Brickel 1:09:59
No. And I say that to people all the time. And that’s become kind of my mantra to people is, if you are saying something to yourself, even if it’s in your own head, and even not out loud that you wouldn’t say to your mother, your father, your best friend, then stop saying it to yourself, because what you think, is exactly how you’re gonna feel. And it eats you from the inside out, so don’t do it.
Bill Gasiamis 1:10:30
And on that great piece of advice, thank you so much for reaching out and being on the podcast. Thank you.
Bill Gasiamis 1:10:37
This was a pleasure. Thanks for joining us on today’s episode to learn more about my guests, including to get their links to their social media and other pages and to download a full transcript of the entire interview. Please go to recoveryafterstroke.com/episodes.
Bill Gasiamis 1:10:52
If you’d like to support this podcast, the best way to do it is to leave a five-star review and a few words about what the show means to you on iTunes, and on Spotify. If you’re watching on YouTube, comment below the video like the episode and to get notifications of future episodes, subscribe to the show, and hit the notification bell.
Bill Gasiamis 1:11:11
Sharing the show with family and friends on social media. We’ll make it possible for people who may need this type of content to find it easier. And that may make a massive difference to someone that is on the road to recovery after their own experience with stroke. Thanks again for being here and listening. I really appreciate you and see you on the next episode.
Intro 1:11:29
Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast are the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed.
Intro 1:11:46
All content on this website at any length blog, podcast or video material controlled this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis.
Intro 1:11:59
The content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice the information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances or health objectives.
Intro 1:12:14
Do not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose treat, cure or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional. Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional, your doctor or your rehabilitation program based on our content.
Intro 1:12:31
If you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition, please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional. If you are experiencing a health emergency or think you might be, call 000 if in Australia or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance or go to the nearest hospital emergency department.
Intro 1:12:48
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Intro 1:13:01
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1 hr 15 min
September 19, 2022 From 5% Chance Of Survival To Published Author – Ricky Monahan Brown
Ricky Monahan Brown’s blood pressure had a reading above 300 over 200 and he was given a 5% chance of survival after a catastrophic brain hemorrhage in 2012. He wrote a book about his ordeal simply titled Stroke.
Instagram
Sandstone Press
Highlights:
02:26 Introduction
06:09 A Hemorrhagic Stroke
08:07 High Blood Pressure
13:50 A Dramatic Turnaround
19:56 The Importance of Having A Goal
27:11 US Healthcare System
42:22 The Power of Being Yourself.
51:21 Stroke a 5% Chance of Survival
58:49 Give Luck A Chance To Hit
Transcription:
Ricky Monahan Brown 0:00
One of the most tragic things that continue to happen under their system is that people who are fortunate enough to survive life-threatening experiences, whether that be a stroke or cancer or whatever, they find themselves getting through that, and then being released and being hit with these bills. And there are just terrifying numbers of people who then end up going into medically related bankruptcy.
Intro 0:43
This is the recovery after stroke podcast, with Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after a stroke.
Bill Gasiamis 0:55
Hello, and welcome to episode 216 of the Recovery after Stroke podcast if you are a stroke survivor with a story to share about your experience with a stroke, and you have been thinking about reaching out to be a guest on the show but we’re waiting for the right time, this is it.
Bill Gasiamis 1:10
If you go to recoveryafterstroke.com/contact, you’ll find a form that you can fill out to apply to be a guest on the show. Now when I say apply, everyone who applies to be a guest of the show gets on, no application process is difficult.
Bill Gasiamis 1:25
If you’ve had a stroke, or you care for somebody who’s had a stroke, or you know somebody who’s had a stroke, you will qualify to be on the show. Now as soon as I receive your request, I will respond with more details on how you can choose a time that works for you and me to meet over Zoom.
Bill Gasiamis 1:40
And then that’ll be it. You’ll be on the show. Now also, I would love to hear from people who have had any stroke-related questions, and they would like my perspective on their question. I’d love to make some short episodes that give my perspective on whatever you are curious about.
Bill Gasiamis 1:55
Now, they can’t be medical questions in nature as I’m not a doctor and I cannot comment on your specific situation. But there can be general questions that are around stroke and stroke-related matters. So once again, if you go to recoveryafterstroke.com/contact in the subject field, you will see a drop-down and if you choose the Ask Bill A Question option, then you can fill out the details. And when I have enough questions, I will answer them in an episode dedicated to those questions.
Introduction – Ricky Monahan Brown

Bill Gasiamis 2:26
Now, my guest today is the author of the book titled Stroke A 5% Chance of Survival Ricky Monahan brown must have a world record for high blood pressure because I’ve never heard of reading so high and more importantly, I’ve never had somebody lived to tell the story of reading so high, this is a great episode I hope you enjoy it. Ricky Monahan Brown, welcome to the podcast.
Ricky Monahan Brown 2:51
Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.
Bill Gasiamis 2:53
Thank you for being here. From?
Ricky Monahan Brown 2:58
Edinburgh, Scotland.
Bill Gasiamis 2:58
Okay, fantastic. Good to have you.
Ricky Monahan Brown 3:02
When it is 5:30 in the morning,
Bill Gasiamis 3:04
Oh man thank you so much then. I appreciate it. I could have done it a bit later if I’d known. But thank you so much. Tell me a little bit about what happened to you.
Ricky Monahan Brown 3:16
Well, we were just talking about you making sure that the podcast is reasonably PG. So what my wife tends to tell people is that she and I had well, let me start from the beginning. It was a great week for me actually because this would in about a couple of weeks be 10 years ago now.
Ricky Monahan Brown 3:48
And I had just on a Friday, lost my job as a finance lawyer in Manhattan in New York City. And we were sort of just trying to take it easy. I managed to get a new job, and things were great. So we went to my now wife and I and my daughter went out to the Science Museum.
Ricky Monahan Brown 4:25
We had a fun day. And then we dropped my daughter off with her mother. We were tooling around on our little pink Malaguti scooter. We played a bit of pool, we had a couple of drinks. We had some of the best pizzas in the five boroughs.
Ricky Monahan Brown 4:50
And we went home and we’re just sort of rounding the night off I suppose, trying to make the best of things on a fairly stressful time. When people ask her what happened, Beth tends to say, Well, if you’re going to choose the way you wanted to go, how would you choose to go? Do you see where I’m going with this? I tend to say, we were engaged in vigorous nighttime activity.
Ricky Monahan Brown 5:24
And I think other people can call it horizontal jogging. So I found that I had a sort of tingling sensation in my left arm and then we took a little break. And she was saying that, you know, don’t worry, you know, just have a rest have a drink of water, this will pass. And I was optimistic. I think the last thing I said to her before I lost consciousness was don’t worry, everything’s going to be fine.
Ricky Monahan Brown Had A Hemorrhagic Stroke
Ricky Monahan Brown 6:08
And as I was seeing that, I thought I was gonna die. But I believed it, and then I don’t remember anything directly for another seven weeks, I don’t think. So yes, hemorrhagic stroke, to be clear, so it wasn’t a clot-based stroke. It was a, it was a burst blood vessel in the brain.
Bill Gasiamis 6:38
Do they know the reason why the blood vessel burst, what was the underlying cause?
Ricky Monahan Brown 6:44
Well, it was, well, yes, actually, this is a really sort of good message to get across to people as a happens. So I’d been working this extremely intense lifestyle whereby I was working lots of late nights, watching the weekends. And also not looking after myself the way I should, because there’s a history of high blood pressure in my family. My father had a couple of coronaries many years earlier at this point.
Ricky Monahan Brown 7:18
Because of the stress, I had ceased to keep up with my blood pressure medication, so they discovered when they just wheeled me into the local Teaching Hospital, which fortunately was only about three blocks away. And they kept on taking my blood even before we got there, when the paramedics came to the flat, they kept on retaking my blood pressure because they didn’t believe it was real. It was something over 300 over something over 200 which is enough to kill two men.
Ricky Monahan Brown’s High Blood Pressure
Bill Gasiamis 8:06
That’s enough to kill an army. I mean, that’s the highest reading I’ve ever heard of. And I’ve had a lot of this high blood pressure type stroke, podcast interviews, and have that is everyone has been around 200, you know, to 10 to 20, but above 300 This is an absolute miracle.
Ricky Monahan Brown 8:30
I’m number one.
Bill Gasiamis 8:33
Well done. I mean, that’s amazing. That’s just absolutely amazing. So because I’m a I’m a simple man, I’d love to know how you got from your bed to was it an ambulance. Did they clothe you? Did they just throw a towel over you? How did you get from the state you were in to elsewhere?
Ricky Monahan Brown 9:04
Yeah. Well, I think we managed to sort of drive me in something or other but yes, it was an ambulance. We are again, we’re very fortunate three blocks from the hospital. So I was being pulled into into hospital, you know, within about three minutes.
Ricky Monahan Brown 9:28
So yeah, then you know, straight onto a gurney. And the funny thing is, I’ve been as I’m sure a lot of people do. I’ve been back to that hospital even though I live about 3,000 miles away now. It’s amazing how calm that place generally is. But apparently, things are pretty hectic as they were feeling near.
Bill Gasiamis 9:54
What was it like so you know you’re at a hospital? How long before you come around? Do they operate? What happens? How do they get this thing under control,
Ricky Monahan Brown 10:03
They wanted to go straight into surgery and do some reasonably serious intervention because they couldn’t do anything to get the blood pressure under control. So, we saw wild, obviously, but the particular expert surgeon who would have would have been doing that job was going to be available until first thing in, the actual morning the proper people who have been to bed and gotten up morning.
Ricky Monahan Brown 10:35
So, when he arrived, they did a trepanation or a troponin. So essentially, I’ve still got two burr holes in my head, which Beth and I quite enjoy allowing people to touch because it freaks them out, as I’m sure you can imagine. So essentially, they drilled burr holes in the top of my scope to release the pressure. And that was, that was sort of the first step towards keeping me alive.
Ricky Monahan Brown 11:15
Although, you know, one of Beth’s you know, everyone’s story is dramatic. And we’re living in the future. And you know, I don’t want to make our you know, my story special in some way. But uh, yeah, one of our best friends was a very, very accomplished to euros with through surgery as a happens. And he went to bed flatly and said, This is it. You’re you’re not going to see this guy again.
Ricky Monahan Brown 11:42
We’re, done. So that’s how that was going down. I should answer your question. I don’t remember, all of this stuff has been relayed to me. I don’t have any first-hand experience of this for about another seven weeks. And then something kind of cool, poetic happened. I’m a reader now. So I love this. As I say this was 10 years ago.
Ricky Monahan Brown 12:14
So I don’t know if you apply this to your news, but there’s something called hurricane or Superstorm Sandy, in New York City. So almost all of the city lost almost all of its power. In fact, in hospitals dotted around the city. Nurses were carrying newborn babies up and down stairs because lifts weren’t working at all that sort of stuff. And there’s this very striking picture of Manhattan, where you can see this line that’s sort of almost down all of Manhattan on one side, all the lights are off.
Ricky Monahan Brown 12:53
And on the other side, all the lights are on, which you know, for a stroke patient is, you know, an image we can all recognize. So, yeah, I was I wasn’t I was all the lights were off Avril. And of course, we’re in a hospital full of people with brain injuries and strokes, they’re very, you know, they’re very sort of highly stressed. So we were all sort of kind of in a bad place.
Ricky Monahan Brown 13:21
But then weirdly enough, when the lights went back on in the hospital, and the lights went back on across Manhattan, Beth tells me that the lights went on. For me. That’s the point at which I started a new beginning to have slightly more coherent interactions with people and or any sort of useful interaction at all. So that’s, where things come together seven weeks later.
A Dramatic Turnaround For Ricky Monahan Brown

Bill Gasiamis 13:50
It’s a pretty cool story. I mean, whenever you try to downplay it, it is pretty cool. You’re, you had a blood pressure through the roof. You were in a certain situation while that was happening, and you’re about to experience most men’s dreams, you know, go going the way you know, there’s that’s the best way to go apparently. For you, maybe it would have been not. It would not have been.
Bill Gasiamis 14:24
And it happened. That everything kind of even after that sort of catastrophe, everything kind of went right so that you can get to be here 10 years down the track and move on. And you’ve still got the things you know, the holes in your head and you’re talking and you’re a writer now and like it’s a pretty big turnaround from that to where you are now.
Bill Gasiamis 14:46
So it is dramatic and people who are listening and watching would also acknowledge them because they’ve had a pretty dramatic turnaround even though they might be earlier on in their lives. In the story, then your eye or further along, there is still a dramatic turnaround, there is an amazing amount of things that they’ve overcome resilience that they’ve had to find etcetera to be here, and it’s no mean feat, because, you know, we don’t have those skills before the stroke.
Bill Gasiamis 15:20
We have no idea what to do in the event of a stroke because we don’t have those skills, we have no idea. So you’ll have to learn it grow overcome, all on your own in one, you know, from one minute to the next, you got to expand yourself as a human being to learn the things that you need to do to continuously remain above ground.
Bill Gasiamis 15:44
And also to the start somehow moving back into some type of existence, that you can experience a new normal or a level of normality that works for you or your family, or whatever. So it’s a bloody big deal. I want to acknowledge that first.
Bill Gasiamis 16:03
But secondly, I had my stroke in 2012, as well, I was in New York. At the end of 2012. We saw the new year between 2012 and 2013. And we were there just after Hurricane Sandy in November, I think was Hurricane Sandy. And then in December, we’re doing the cleanup and things were getting better.
Bill Gasiamis 16:32
And it was a really good time. Because it was the weather was nice and settled, all the bad weather had been gone. And people were we experienced New York. Well, the fact that I was in New York for New Year’s Eve, was the most amazing accomplishment of my life, it was just ridiculously amazing.
Bill Gasiamis 16:53
That two months at the beginning of the year, we had the first blade or the second blade, and then somehow dragged me to get to the point where I was good enough, to overcome all my fears to get on a plane and do a 24-hour trip from the US and of the world as they call Australia, sometimes to the other side of the world to be in New York. I mean, it’s a massive fit for both me and my family.
Bill Gasiamis 17:24
I was afraid when I was there, that it might happen again, while I was overseas, so I bought the most expensive insurance that I could get. So I was completely covered if it happened. And even though I thought that it might happen while I was there, we went anyway.
Bill Gasiamis 17:41
We weren’t going to not go. And that’s not something that I had ever done before. This is the part of me that I didn’t know existed that I had to discover until after these damn strokes occurred, you know? So how long did it take you to get out of the hospital? And what were you left with that you had to overcome?
Ricky Monahan Brown 18:04
That was seven weeks, three and a half weeks in the local hospital, just three blocks from where we lived in, in Brooklyn, in sort of very intensive care. And I have no memory of that. And then after three and a half weeks, it was very important for the medical team to think correctly, obviously, to get me into as intensive rehabilitation as they could.
Ricky Monahan Brown 18:37
So I was moved to Manhattan, where they started work on the rehabilitation. And I suppose I was very fortunate. I mean, I suppose you make a good point, by the amount of kudos, we have to give a lot of the people who will be seeing this podcast, and for you know, being in a position where they’re able to watch it.
Ricky Monahan Brown 19:03
So there is that, but for me personally, I tend to be very cognizant of the ridiculous amount of work that’s involved here. Because I’m in physically and mentally, pretty decent shape. You know, there are deficits, of course. But you know, I’m not special I had a great deal of luck. And that’s a huge part of it.
Ricky Monahan Brown 19:30
And people who don’t have as great outcomes that’s bad luck and that’s tragic. And I give them more respect than anyone else because they’re, you know, they’re getting on with things and that’s amazing. And I also have to acknowledge the crazy amount of help that we got, I mean, firstly, myself personally for Beth, and then all of our friends and our families and an incredible medical team as well.
The Importance of Having A Goal – Ricky Monahan Brown

Ricky Monahan Brown 19:56
So, again, very fortunate in that regard, but I think when you talk about your trip to New York for New Year, I think you’ve touched on something really important there as well. I don’t know the extent to which you were thinking about or focusing on that trip when you were going through your strokes and all that sort of stuff. But we so one of the things I think, helped us get through this experience, was trying to picture a future.
Ricky Monahan Brown 20:28
And, you know, even something as simple as the idea of walking through Prospect Park, again, just to be able to sort of cling on to that possibility. And, and I started fantasizing about the idea of running a marathon or something like that. And I think it would have been two years later, we’re back in Scotland, and I ran the Iowa, half marathon, sponsored by the brilliant scotch whisky mix. So that was a wonderful thing to be able to do. But being able to sort of focus on these things and sort of try to imagine that good times was a really important thing for us.
Bill Gasiamis 21:16
I like that, I like that it’s like you’re setting an intention for somebody that you’re a goal that you need to work towards. And I like that, and we didn’t have a goal per se, that was deadline driven, it was just driven by location, we’re going to get there one day.
Bill Gasiamis 21:33
And I felt like that was better because then I didn’t have I didn’t make it, then I wouldn’t have that I felt like I would have been more disappointed if the goal to get there by the deadline hadn’t been achieved, right? So the fact that we have something to look forward to made us get through the real bad times the many, many bad times that we had.
Bill Gasiamis 21:59
So yeah, I like that idea of planning a future regardless of how dire things may be, because they do motivate you to an extent it does motor its motivation or to have something that’s in the future to work towards. And that’s kind of when you learn about yourself, where you overcome, or the deficits.
Bill Gasiamis 22:25
And I’m not talking about just the ones that stroke created. Also talking about the ones that we create in our mind every day, which I imagined are not even real, you know, physical deficits, but then we manifest them as being real, and then we get in our way.
Bill Gasiamis 22:41
So I love that. And then you lost your job sounds like exactly the right time because then you didn’t have to worry about getting back to work. And you didn’t have to worry about your employers. However, that would have been a difficult time as well, because I imagine where you’re covered by insurance or anything. So that was it. Okay, that you weren’t working for a little while. What was that, like?
Ricky Monahan Brown 23:06
It wasn’t great. So just immediately before that moment, because that could have been when my employment properly terminated. And at that point, it wasn’t looking like I was going to recover. Unfortunately, you have, we have another aspect of health insurance in the US called COBRA, which essentially means that you can maintain the health insurance that you had, for some time.
Ricky Monahan Brown 23:12
So long as long as you pay a particular amount of premium. So you don’t have to pay the full premium, which would have been just suddenly would have been impossible for us to manage. But a smaller amount. Having said that, well, I suppose the first thing to note is that at the end of those seven weeks, the retail cost of my health care to that point was $600,000.
Ricky Monahan Brown 24:26
So we’re very fortunate we managed to get the COBRA into effect and we were able to embed was working at this point ourselves. So she was just not able, to cover that. Until when we stopped my stroke would have been and Sandy originally happened in October.
Ricky Monahan Brown 24:50
So my stroke was in September or October. Just as the calendar was turning it made it difficult to answer the questions like you know, what’s your name? When did your stroke happen? All that sort of stuff. But yet Beth then lost her job just around Christmas time. Because she wasn’t able necessarily to live up to the expectations of a New York investment bank while also trying to look after me. So, by the turn of the year, things were looking very grim and weak again.
Ricky Monahan Brown 25:30
And we had to decide to move here to Scotland because I was still going to be eligible for NHS Care over here. I know we had actually, I suppose in the same vein, as you know, these things that we use as tools to look forward to, it had always been sort of our idea to move to Scotland. As it happens, Beth’s birthday is burns night, and her family’s best friends were Scots and all that sort of stuff.
Ricky Monahan Brown 26:10
And I’d always thought about, I had originally always thought that I would move back at some point. When I first moved to America, permanently, I was thinking, oh, you know, a couple of years and then go home. And of course, 50 years pass, and you got a mortgage, and you got a kid and all that sort of stuff, and things don’t happen. But yeah, the way we got through the insurance question in the end, was moving back to Scotland. About, what 10 years ago now.
Bill Gasiamis 26:43
You’ve got the NHS experience, the National Health Service in the United Kingdom. What kind of level of coverage does that give you? In Australia, we’ve got the Medicare system, and the Medicare system covers anybody who doesn’t have insurance for everything. And you walk into the hospital with zero costs, other than perhaps, you know, a 50, or $60, medication prescription that you have to buy on the way out.
US Healthcare System
Bill Gasiamis 27:11
All of my healthcare, all my surgery, my MRIs, and all of my rehabilitation, was just on the taxpayer who I am and I contribute to the Medicare levy that we’re charged annually. So what’s it like, in Britain? And then what would have happened if you couldn’t pay 600 grand in the US?
Ricky Monahan Brown 27:46
So firstly, the experience here with the NHS is that health care across the UK is free at the point of service fee, the point of access. So basically, all of our payments for health care just come directly through tax. It’s slightly different across the different nations of the UK, where prescriptions, for example, in Scotland are also free. That’s a decision that’s been made by our devolved government.
Ricky Monahan Brown 28:24
I think in England and Wales prescription, you have to pay for a certain amount of your prescriptions. I think that there has been a way, across parts of the UK in recent years, but I believe our new prime minister is going to be taking that away. So yeah, free the point of service, which is amazing. I read a thing a while ago about how one of the good things about the NHS being held up by the population here is a sort of a foundational pillar of the way that we live.
Ricky Monahan Brown 29:02
No one standing to find this under a load of stress, that is because the British people love the NHS it gives them this sort of grounding an idea that all waves have value, which I suppose brings me to the next part of your question regarding what would have happened if we hadn’t been able to see, get on COBRA and then get back into a place where we had access to free health care to the point of delivery.
Ricky Monahan Brown 29:38
In the US. One of the most tragic things that continue to happen under their system is that people who are fortunate enough to survive life-threatening experiences whether that be a stroke or cancer or whatever, find themselves getting through,
Intro 30:04
if you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. Like, how long will it take to recover? Will I recover? What things should I avoid? In case I make matters worse, doctors will explain things that, you’ve never had a stroke before, and you probably don’t know what questions to ask. If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery.
Intro 30:34
If you’re finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com, where you can download a guide that will help you it’s called The Seven Questions to Ask Your Doctor about your Stroke. These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition. And they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery, head to the website. Now, recoverafterstroke.com and download the guide. It’s free.
Ricky Monahan Brown 31:07
That and then being released and being hit with these bills. And there are just terrifying numbers of people who then end up going into medically related bankruptcy. So you know, you’ve gone through this terrible experience, you may well have lost a great deal of your earning ability, the same things may apply to your families who will have caring responsibilities, all that sort of stuff.
Ricky Monahan Brown 31:38
But then you’re looking at bankruptcy and the possibility of losing your home and all that sort of stuff, which is a tragedy. So again, we were very fortunate to have an out, have support becoming into the situation from a very privileged sort of situation. So yeah, it’s a grim possibility.
Bill Gasiamis 32:02
Would you have been able to leave the US to go back to Scotland if you hadn’t paid the bill? Had you not had cover?
Ricky Monahan Brown 32:12
That’s a good question, certainly, I would never have been able to go back to the States. Yeah, I don’t know what’s going on in the land from the US. There will be some humanitarian ways of looking at that.
Bill Gasiamis 32:33
Yeah. Interesting. So, you then went through a recovery where you’re left with cognitive deficits? Did you have any issues in that part of your recovery that you needed to overcome?
Ricky Monahan Brown 32:51
Yeah. I think lots of solo survivors talk about the idea of the new normal, I suppose. It was a couple of years where cognition was pretty difficult. I was very fortunate again in that, my stroke hit the right side of my brain so I have sort of slight left say fiscal deficits, and a slight limp and I’m tired of that sort of stuff. But it meant that my expressive abilities were pretty much untouched.
Ricky Monahan Brown 33:34
I was very, very fortunate in that regard. I feel at this point, that my cognition is pretty much back to where it was. And although at this stage it is the new normal and I can’t be entirely sure, for the stroke happened I was working these ridiculous hours and can be pretty spacey in my own real life already. So sometimes it’s hard to tell whether I should be mad at the stroke or just reflecting on the fact that “oh, still you Ricky.” But it feels like things are pretty together at this point. Again, very fortunate.
Bill Gasiamis 34:25
Yeah, you know, sounds kind of similar to me where I have the deficits on my left side, I get fatigued sometimes if I haven’t slept well which happens from time to time and then the next day, fun, it’s really difficult to drag myself through it. I’ll be a little more unsteady on my feet you know, I might bump into the odd doorway. I’ll have some pain in my legs and my leg in my extremities on the left side and I’ll be a bit angrier and nasty without knowing that I’m being that way at the time, and then I’d have to apologize and do all that stuff, which is fine.
Bill Gasiamis 35:16
But it sounds like my journey has kind of got me to the point where I’m now pretty capable of sitting down, for example, recording multiple podcasts on a day, going through the editing process doing that which is far further along than what I have been, perhaps maybe for the first six or seven years after the first incident, and then after the second and third incident.
Bill Gasiamis 35:44
So I’m able to reflect on how far I’ve come. And I’m comfortable with being able to say, “Hey, look how far you’ve come and even though you’ve had two or three bad days last week, or another two or three bad days is coming, that’s okay, that’s like, take your winds and rest, rest, rest and just overcome whatever challenges you have, and try not to do so much.”
Bill Gasiamis 36:09
So that’s kind of how I get around being impacted by the stroke still, you know, 10 years later, I just have learned a new way to listen to my body and pay attention and do what it’s asking rather than pushing through and then falling into the abyss and then trying, like to find a way out and fighting it. And rather than fighting it and just sort of letting it ride, is that how you go about things? Do you have those types of moments like I described?
Ricky Monahan Brown 36:42
Well, you’re touching on a couple of really interesting things that have a degree of universality to them.
Ricky Monahan Brown 36:50
Sort of learning to recognize death, it’s and being able to adopt, coping strategies, a new account or a personal account for their deficits, and begin to make allowances for that, for me, something that I would have to do, particularly towards the beginning of the second stage of my recovery, if you will, would be to try to be more organized, all of the stuff that I would ever have to remember, are sort of the physical objects I would have to remember, we’d all go in very particular places, and they would always go in those particular places.
Ricky Monahan Brown 37:43
Until that was just a new habit that have been very effectively formed. So I’ve always been able to find the phone, the keys, the cards, the wall, all that sort of stuff without that particular. And that’s a small coping strategy. But without that, all of that stuff we would have fallen apart daily. And also, I keep a lot of lists now I’m good at calendaring things, which you know, is not previously, it was just get from one thing to the next thing, just keep going and get it done. Now, things are a little bit more, more organized.
Ricky Monahan Brown 38:21
Another thing I think that I recognize, and in a lot of the things that you’ve been talking about here is having gone through these experiences. I think firstly, I find myself having a different set of priorities, I started taking my health more seriously, I mean, I’ve taken meditation, for example.
Ricky Monahan Brown 38:51
And so I’ve got a much more sort of a generous outlook on my own life and other people and all that sort of stuff. One of them, my recreational therapist in the hospital came by one day and sort of gave me these. Remember, CDs. So she gave me these mindfulness CDs. And I started using them, that had always been something that I’d sort of been interested in but had never had either the opportunity or the motivation to follow through.
Ricky Monahan Brown 39:28
But I find that it’s been something helpful for me as well. But I think there’s there’s a natural aspect that comes through just having gone through these things. I think a lot of survivors do find themselves reevaluating a lot of stuff, and having a little bit more of, for lack of a better word, holistic and empathetic, look on life. It’s, again, being able to look at it from a position where I’ve been very fortunate. I have these little superpowers that I’ve kind of picked up on the way, you know.
Ricky Monahan Brown 40:05
Going through this, I think of my father, again, he and, one of his colleagues used to talk about the fact that one of the reasons that they had reasonably long and healthy lives, was because he had early life health scares, and had therefore started to take care of themselves a little better. They’re doing that too. But anyway, I’m blathering on here, where are you going next?
Bill Gasiamis 40:30
Oh, I love it. I love it. The empathy side of it was interesting because that’s something that I got as well, that was enhanced in me. Because immediately, because I spent some time in a wheelchair, immediately, I was able to relate to a whole bunch more people in the community. And completely understand. Use my small amount of time in the wheelchair to understand what the consequences of being in a wheelchair for a long time mean. And then also seeing people who were living on the street, and being able to see that I probably wasn’t that far off there.
Bill Gasiamis 41:11
If things went wrong differently for me, then I could have been impacted in a way that would have potentially ended up with me having lots of other misfortunes, perhaps, and ending up in a situation that I didn’t plan that was out of the realm of possibility until after this injury with stroke. And I’m like, okay, I can appreciate those people now. Now, I know that when they ask for money, I’m not going to wonder what are they going to do with their money, what I’m going to do is give them their few bucks and let them work out what they’re going to do with it.
Bill Gasiamis 41:46
And hopefully, that lets them do something that gets them to the point where they no longer have to be on the street at some point in time in their life, whatever. And it’s like, it’s such a blessing to have that where before, I thought that I had the answer to everything, I thought that I knew it all. I judged people based on my very small, my lack of life experiences, and my very narrow focus on the realm of possibilities for other people. And it was eye-opening, so eye-opening.
The Power of Being Yourself

Bill Gasiamis 42:28
And it’s made my life richer for knowing that because I’ve interacted with people who I never would have interacted with before, who have just been themselves and they’ve gone just by being themselves, it has completely dislodged that the stuff that I thought was correct about them, which is completely incorrect because I was just making it up from hearsay or the news or all these unreliable sources about what it means when somebody is living in a certain situation, or when somebody has experienced a certain health condition, or whatever the situation may be.
Bill Gasiamis 43:10
It’s like, okay, I don’t know how else I would have learned those life skills. I have no idea how I would have learned them if it wasn’t for that situation. And I’m glad that it happened. That part of it is right. So I get what you’re saying like I get where you’re coming from the little superpowers. That’s exactly what they are. And if somebody listening to this hasn’t got there yet. Well discover the superpowers, it’s a matter of time before there will be some massive changes that occur that you didn’t expect that you’ll reflect on and you’ll go, “Wow, wow, that came from this.”
Bill Gasiamis 43:58
What a surprise. That’s never how I would have thought that something so profound, that’s how I would have come across it or discovered it. It’s just, yeah, I’m amazed by it all the time. And what’s interesting is that I’ve moved into writing a book, and I’ve seen how many stroke survivors have moved into writing a book and they’ve read in a book and they’ve put their story on paper, and then they’ve published and they’ve got it out.
Bill Gasiamis 44:24
And you became an author. So before you are an author, you are a legal Eagle, and then you’ve turned into this completely different path. Is authorship something that you were passionate about, but never did or is it something you’ve discovered? How did you become an author?
Ricky Monahan Brown 44:45
Well, Beth asked me the same question, not long after all this went down like that. When I started writing, she said, “Did you always want to be a writer?” And it turned out the answer was yes, but I forgot. I think this may not be uncommon as a teenager, but I wanted to write and ensure that showed a little bit of natural talent, if you will.
Ricky Monahan Brown 45:15
But you know, life just went in different directions, but then, having woken up, or having a sort of regained, sort of full consciousness, one of the first things I did was when I was granted access to my phone again, which, you know, took a few weeks, because, you know, if you’re in a bed, that is more than enough room for someone in stroke recovery, to lose their phone for days at a time, but I’m able to get fuller access to it when my outlet or my sort of connection to the outside world was through Twitter.
Ricky Monahan Brown 45:59
So I started, you know, just putting out these little things about what was happening to me. And you’ve come across this, I’m sure Bill, and one of the things that gets a lot of stroke survivors and their loved ones, through all these just horrible sort of, you know, blood and pain and just terrible experiences is this weird, observed black humor.
Ricky Monahan Brown 46:30
Beth would talk about how she would you know, these things would happen and she wanted to laugh, but she would feel terrible that I might think she was laughing at me, but that wasn’t the case at all. So there would be just things like I was going through my struggle to read during these initial seven weeks, I would, I would demand access to a phone. So I could speak to my friend Tony Stark, who was CEO, of Ironman, and he was going to pick up.
Ricky Monahan Brown 47:04
And then just dumb stuff like ask me the memory questions, you know, what’s your name? Do you know where you are? Do you know why you’re here and all that sort of stuff? Do you know who the president is? And I will end up saying something lame. On one level, I soaked in and didn’t care.
Ricky Monahan Brown 47:30
And then I would say ask me who the Prime Minister is. Who’s the Prime Minister and I would say. You hate him. Oh was it David Cameron? So yeah, sorry, I’m just looking back at some of the, you know, the sort of more fun aspects of what happened. Oh, and sorry, just one other thing. My healthcare providers were incredible. And there was this one nurse who was taking care of me.
Ricky Monahan Brown 48:06
Who had spent time in Edinburgh, so we sort of connected a little bit and all that sort of stuff. And we started sharing Sean Connery impressions, which I’m okay as you can probably imagine. And then there’s this tiny little Asian nurse, and then there’s a booming Scottish voice emanating from this little room. Gold finger do you expect me to die?
Bill Gasiamis 48:49
From a nurse with Asian heritage who has not the same stature the voice, the look of Sean Connery. It would be surreal to hear a Scottish accent as well. In that situation would be amazing. A lot of funny things happen during a stroke as well.
Bill Gasiamis 49:13
I often talk about them in that way as well that they created a little bit of lightheartedness when it was possible for things to be terrible all the time and we laughed when we had the opportunity to laugh we laugh because we might not have had that opportunity later. It might never have come, I might not have been around so it’s not like you should.
Bill Gasiamis 49:37
Because stroke is serious and devastating and all the things that it is, doesn’t mean you shouldn’t find things to laugh at during a seriously devastating time, and you might not be in the mood, and that’s okay. But if the mood allows it, you can embrace it.
Ricky Monahan Brown 50:11
And I think this is one of the reasons that that a number of us do end up writing and in some form or another, firstly you find you have a story to tell. But also, there’s a desire to sort of share some of this stuff. Because, you know, not everyone is there yet to, you know, these ideas of these little shots of light, these little moments of hope, if you can sort of push the possibility about for the people who are going to be lucky enough to access those moments, you know, give them hope to sort of hang on to that feels like a very positive thing to do.
Bill Gasiamis 50:56
I think so I love that. I love that idea that you know, the people might be listening, who they’re very critical, acute stage of recovery, and they don’t think there’s anything funny better than we kind of giving them permission to laugh if a funny situation arises and make it okay to do that, not feel bad about it, whether they’re a caregiver, or whether they’re the patient, or a family member, you know, it’s okay to have a bit of a life.
Stroke a 5% Chance of Survival

Bill Gasiamis 51:21
So, go for it, it works. And it makes you feel better, and it creates endorphins. And it, you know, gets the whole body changing its physiology and its chemistry a little bit. So it’s a positive thing. I love that. So tell me about the book that you’ve written. What’s it about? And what? And how long did it take you to get to the end of the whole creative process and then publish? Yeah.
Ricky Monahan Brown 51:54
So the process started reasonably quickly, as I see a lot of the, you know, I wasn’t making memories, particularly during that sort of first seven-week period. But then sort of rebuilding some of these events as they happened. The fight has to be been tweeting meant a lot of this stuff had been sort of noted in places.
Ricky Monahan Brown 52:26
So in that sense, it was almost an immediate thing, but then it started turning into a more mindful, sort of a thing. And as I was in the very initial stages of recovery, I think one of the first things I did was when I was sort of making a trip on my own on the New York subway was, we’d come across this sort of readers workshop, in another part of Brooklyn.
Ricky Monahan Brown 52:55
So that was, that was a big project, we sort of sat down together, we, we got on the online subway, we made some No, so we figured out where I would have to change and all that sort of stuff. And I managed to get into a different neighborhood of Brooklyn. And that was, that was a that was a huge achievement, that was a real sort of landmark on on recovery.
Ricky Monahan Brown 53:15
So it was some very supportive people there. And that’s kind of where that process began to become something a little bit more real. And then over the next, I mean, it’s over, it was over years, because, you know, at that point, your concentration is still difficult, stamina is still difficult or bad sort of thing.
Ricky Monahan Brown 53:42
But I think I probably started I had a more or less finished manuscript in 2017. And my publishers for that book, Sandstone Press, here in Scotland, and they were at an export of sorts, in the north of Scotland, and they were looking for people to pitch ideas, again, as it happens on Twitter.
Ricky Monahan Brown 54:16
And I had, I think it was probably still 140 characters, but you know, it’s a it’s a crazy story, right? So I condensed it as much as I could throw it out there. And they were interested. So I had very finished very quickly getting the manuscript more polished.
Ricky Monahan Brown 54:40
And was fortunate enough that they picked it up. And yeah, I again, having stumbled into this sort of story that I felt almost obliged to tell because it is such a crazy story because there are things that you know, we want to pay As long as it went on reasonably well, and then when t 19, I think would have been the year that sort of that world in its final form and stroke call on a 5% chance of survival, because when you’re going in without blood pressure, we think that was kind of where we are.
Ricky Monahan Brown 55:20
And if it wasn’t survival as a 5% chance of survival, I’m getting into details point being a 2018 one of our major broadsheet newspapers here in Scotland made it one of their Scottish nonfiction books of the year, which was a huge honor.
Ricky Monahan Brown 55:44
And that’s kind of given me, the opportunity to carry on with all of this stuff so myself and a colleague, I put together a spoken word night for a couple of years here in Scotland that won some awards. And I’m very fortunate in that my first novella comes out towards the beginning of next year, so it’s exciting times.
Bill Gasiamis 56:08
Unbelievable, I just cannot, I just kind of grasp the amazingness of that, like, it’s amazing, because this complete shift that happened all serendipitously like it just, you know, emerged, it somehow found you you found it, they found you, you know, and then the whole thing just kind of emerged, it’s amazing. I know that we can’t ever sort of do justice to a baby, how difficult the middle sections were, and the doubts and all that stuff.
Bill Gasiamis 56:38
I imagine there were plenty of them, right? But in the end, it seems like persistence and perseverance. Were part of what made it possible to deliver this thing and then change your career at the same time and move to a new career. This just desire to continuously go for it and solve little problems as they came up, like, how do I get to change trains?
Bill Gasiamis 57:05
Where do I have to get off, make some notes on the particular presentation that I listen to, and so on? We did all little kinds of negative solutions and problem-solving little bits at a time just added up. And then before you know it, you know, time flies and things happen. And then there’s a book and now there’s another one on the way. Does that encapsulate it a little bit?
Ricky Monahan Brown 57:38
Yeah, you spend so much time getting from day to day from hour to hour, and then you put them all together? And you find you’re somewhere different altogether? And as you say, one mustn’t downplay the Bloods and the tears in the snow. It’s in the emotional ability. And the moments where I get emotional about it now at the moments where you’re convinced that it’s not going to work out, there’s no way that your partner could stay.
Ricky Monahan Brown 58:22
Because look how awesome they are in fiber, they continue to put themselves through that. And again, I was lucky she did. But yeah, and again, I always find myself acknowledging a huge part of luck is played, but you keep putting yourself out there. And you try and give that luck a chance to hit. And that’s another part of sort of what was going on.
Give Luck A Chance To Hit – Ricky Monahan Brown
Bill Gasiamis 58:48
I love that try and give that chance for the luck to hit. Yeah, that’s awesome. I love that. It’s like you’ve got to be, make yourself available so that when lucky things happen, you’re around to collect on that lucky situation, or lucky episode or a chance meeting or whatever it was, if you’re not out there, that is not going to happen. The luck is not going to hit because you’re not putting yourself out there.
Bill Gasiamis 59:20
You’re not making any moves towards this new version of you, or whatever it was. I’m trying to get people inspired about doing stuff. Despite not knowing what the outcomes are going to be, just do it anyway. And then just see where the luck lands and then take it and go with it and run with it. Now what I’m what I’ve got the cover of your book, up appears on the screen, I’m looking at it.
Bill Gasiamis 59:51
I’m looking at the back page and I’m going to read a little bit about what other people have had to say about it. You know, Katie, well, I don’t know. Says No More about major neurological injuries should be this funny as much about navigating adulthood, and everything that comes with it, as it is about recovery.
Bill Gasiamis 1:00:12
And then Allison Stack says, By turns funny, philosophical, and morbidly fascinating. Stroke is a Reilly humorous meditation on love the strangeness of life and the miracle of second chances. And then Professor Sir Kenneth Kalman tells, an inspirational story of a young man with a stroke with fuss with a fascinating and unexpected ending.
Ricky Monahan Brown 1:00:35
So it feels like another person when you hear that sort of stuff, but that’s all super kind. And again, it’s not just me, it’s a story. I mean, this is happening, is something similar to happen to you, it’s happened to me, it’s happened to people who are going to be listening to watching this podcast.
Ricky Monahan Brown 1:00:58
And yeah, you know, as all these people make their way through this, they are amazing people with amazing stories, you know, I got a chance to share my we all have these, these amazing individual stories. And I suppose, since you’ve been kind enough to be so kind, I should probably mention that the novella is due to come out at, the beginning of next year, I think.
Ricky Monahan Brown 1:01:27
Takes another sort of real-life aspect, what’s happened to me, and the publishers, Lemington Books here in Scotland are running a Kickstarter for something called a novella, express. And there’s gonna be some amazing talent and content going out there. And if you want to find out sort of more about that, all that stuff’s out there on the old interwebs.
Bill Gasiamis 1:01:54
Yeah, we’ll have all the links in the show notes where people can go to recoveryafterstroke.com/episodes, they’ll be able to have a look at your episode, and then download a transcription plus, also, click on your links for that. And that’ll be awesome for people to go there who are interested. And tell me about the novella, give us a little bit of a glimpse into what people can expect to find in that when it’s finally sort of finished and released.
Ricky Monahan Brown 1:02:27
Yeah. Well, I’ve always had an interest in gothic fiction. And, you know, sort of hearing some of the stories I’m telling you, the morbid state of my nature has not receded at all. I’m very positive. But, you know, you get the break in the brain surgery you get, you get MRIs, I still have two aneurysms. So you know, I do have, you know, those threads living inside me.
Ricky Monahan Brown 1:03:03
So it’s a gothic novella, and it’s set in a place where I had some of my recovery, we have friends who have a small farm in rural Pennsylvania. And they were kind enough to let me spend some time recovering there. And I mean, you’ll know this where you live, it’s, it’s something that sort of less evidence of when you’re living in an area where you’re in Scotland.
Ricky Monahan Brown 1:03:36
But if you’re in sort of a rural part of America, there’s just these huge areas of land. And this farm is surrounded by trees, and there’s something a little spooky about it. So it’s the story of a professional couple who lose their jobs and have to leave New York City for a farm in a spooky forest. And yeah, one of them dies. And we have to spend the length of a novella, figuring out why and how that happened. And it’s about regret and loss and memory and all these things that stroke survivors think about a lot.
Ricky Monahan Brown 1:03:36
I hear you. Well, sounds like an interesting book. That’d be fantastic when it’s out. Well, I appreciate you reaching out. Joining me on the podcast and sharing your story. I do like the way that you’re very you’re underplaying this whole thing and you’ve done it from the very beginning of our podcast episode.
Bill Gasiamis 1:04:48
I like it because it’s nice that you’re doing it but I’m gonna give you a little bit more credit for being here. Because the circumstances under which you are here are extraordinary. Absolutely. And then it’s just like a celebration of you. Yeah, this is like, you’re here.
Bill Gasiamis 1:05:05
And the hostile conditions, you made it to the other side. And that’s bloody awesome. And I’m so I get so excited when people are on my podcast because that means we all kind of made it right. And that’s awesome. So it’s a bit of a, me understanding why you’re downplaying things, but then me also going, alright, I know you’re humble, but I love it that you’re here.
Bill Gasiamis 1:05:30
300 you break a record for me, I never heard of 300 blood pressure. So, man, thank you so much for being on the podcast and reaching out and sharing your story. And I look forward to learning more about your book as it comes out when it does come out, please reach out so we can talk about it again. And so we can be on the podcast again. That’d be fun. And yeah, just thank you.
Ricky Monahan Brown 1:05:56
Thank you for the opportunity to share a story about some people and thanks to you for sort of allowing me to sort of access some of these stories. And yeah, it’s someone who gave Beth a posted note during my recovery saying nothing is permanent. So yeah, keep on keepin’ on, folks. It’s been a real pleasure to have Bill give me a chance to meet you. Cheers.
Bill Gasiamis 1:05:58
Thanks for joining us on today’s episode to learn more about my guests including their links to social media and other pages and to download a full transcript of the entire interview. Please go to recoveryafterstroke.com/episodes. If you’d like to support this podcast, the best way to do it is to leave a five-star review and a few words about what the show means to you on iTunes and Spotify.
Bill Gasiamis 1:06:48
If you are watching on YouTube comment below the video like the episode and to get notifications of future episodes subscribe to the show and also hit the notifications bell so you can be notified of new episodes as they are made available.
Bill Gasiamis 1:07:02
Now sharing the show with family and friends and social media will make it possible for people who may need this type of content to find it easier. And that may make a massive difference to someone who is on the road to recovery after their own experience with stroke. Thanks again for being here and listening. I appreciate you and see you on the next episode.
Intro 1:07:20
Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals. The opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast are the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed.
Intro 1:07:37
All content on this website at any linked blog, podcast, or video material controlled by this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis. The content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing.
Intro 1:07:54
It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice the information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances, or health objectives. Do not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose treat, cure, or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional.
Intro 1:08:15
Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional, your doctor, or your rehabilitation program based on our content if you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition, please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional.
Intro 1:08:29
If you are experiencing a health emergency or think you might be, call 000 if in Australia or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance, or go to the nearest hospital emergency department. Medical information changes constantly. While we aim to provide current quality information in our content, we do not provide any guarantees and assume no legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, currency, or completeness of the content.
Intro 1:08:52
If you choose to rely on any information within our content you do so solely at your own risk. We are careful with the links we provide however third-party links from our website are followed at your own risk and we are not responsible for any information you find there.
The post From 5% Chance Of Survival To Published Author – Ricky Monahan Brown appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.
1 hr 10 min
September 15, 2022 Addressing The Care Gap After Stroke – Dr. Joseph F. Clark
Dr. Joseph F. Clark is a neurophysiologist who works with people to help get their brain and body as healthy as possible by addressing the care gap that exists for stroke survivors when they leave the hospital.
Tricerapro
Highlights:
00:57 Introduction
05:08 What’s The Difference?
14:09 What Is Physiology?
18:36 Where Neurophysiologists Come In?
26:25 The Care Gap After Stroke
33:15 The Last Mile
40:55 Brain Energy Metabolism
48:13 Calcium Can Contribute To Stroke
56:03 Avoiding Certain Food
Transcription:
Bill 0:00
I’m not sure this abyss of nothingness, and we had no information whatsoever no one to turn to this was the hard part. So what I’d love to do is have a bit of a conversation with you about this gap that almost every stroke survivor that I’ve talked to tells me that they experienced in the very early days of going home and then sometimes for many months.
Intro 0:29
This is the recovery after stroke podcast. With Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after stroke.
Bill 0:42
Hello, and welcome to episode 215 of the recovery after stroke podcast if you are a stroke survivor with a story to share about your experience with stroke, and you’ve been thinking about reaching out to be a guest on the show, but we’re waiting for the right time to reach out, this is it.
Introduction

Bill 0:57
If you go to recoveryafterstroke.com, you’ll find a form that you can fill out to apply to be a guest on the show. As soon as I receive it. I will respond with more details on how you can choose a time that works for you and me to meet over zoom. Now my guest today is Joseph Clark, a doctor in the field of Neurophysiology who works with people to help get their brain and body as healthy as possible. Dr. Joseph Clark, welcome to the podcast.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 1:24
Thanks, Bill. Nice to be here.
Bill 1:26
Lovely to have you here. I would love to know I always get excited and shocked and humbled by the fact that there’s a whole bunch of people on the planet who decide to become doctors of all sorts, especially medical doctors. And the purpose is to help people they haven’t met yet, that they don’t know, through things that we’re going, through the most difficult times, for example in our lives.
Bill 1:55
And we’ve got this whole bunch of people inside of a hospital and outside of a hospital, researching, etc. that have got our back or in my case, my brain. Can you give me a little bit of background about your journey to becoming a doctor and why you chose the field that you did?
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 2:16
Yeah, sure, of course. So a point of clarification. My doctorate is in neurophysiology. I’m not a medical doctor, but it’s neurophysiology. I do have a medical license, I can, you know, see and take care of people. And in America, that’s called a physician extender.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 2:18
So I work with other physicians in a subspecialty that is most definitely neurophysiology, neurophysiatry, focusing on diagnosis, rehabilitation management, treatment of traumatic brain injury and stroke. And in many places, those two are linked together.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 2:55
They have differences, no question. But when there are deficiencies that are in my purview, there’s a lot of overlap with regard to the patients that I see who have had a stroke or traumatic brain injury. And sometimes we have to be even more granular hemorrhagic stroke, ischemic stroke, you know, traumatic brain injury with skull fracture with hemorrhaging, there’s, they can get pretty complicated.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 3:28
And how I got to this, for me, the brain was always a puzzle. You know, one specific region of the brain can be very dedicated to a task like a motor task or a vision task. And if we talk about say, the frontal lobe with the frontal cortex, or the prefrontal lobe, that particular area of the brain can be damaged.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 3:57
And sometimes it’s damaged and a person has what’s called a flat affect. They’re just a lump, they don’t want to do anything. And then sometimes they’re hyperactive and disinhibited and they’re wild and all over the place, almost the exact same injury can manifest in different ways, you know, with a stroke a person with a hemorrhagic stroke, it can sometimes seem fairly similar.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 4:24
Like if you have a 60 cc stroke in one person well a 60 cc stroke, hemorrhagic stroke in another person could be drastically different and it could be because of metabolism could be because of location. It could be because of what we call a tight brain, a brain that fits tightly within your skull versus a person that does not have as tight a brain.
Bill 4:50
Let me interrupt you for a second. What’s a 60 cc?
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 4:54
That would be 60 milliliters of blood. That’s the volume of bleeding. And 60 is very serious. But 60 is also on that line where some people do very well and some people never recover.
What’s The Difference?

Bill 5:07
I always got curious after my brain hemorrhage is when I met other people who were way more injured than me post-stroke or had way more deficits, I always did kind of wonder, why them? Why did they have that injury to that extent, and I didn’t have an injury.
Bill 5:26
So the bleed amount is definitely one of those things, the location is definitely another one of those things. But you said something that’s really interesting is, depending on whether the brain fits in the skull, if the skull is a different size, or compared to the brain, that’s fascinating.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 5:45
Right, so pre-existing hydrocephalus, or pre-existing brain atrophy, or just that’s not how you developed, can give the brain a little bit more room, should there be a hemorrhage and then increased intracranial pressure from a bleed is a bad thing as well.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 6:05
And so there might be less intracranial pressure. So yes, all of those things come into play. And what we haven’t even talked about because there’s lots to talk about. Arterial versus venous, so arteries have a higher oxygen concentration. You probably heard of reactive oxygen species and oxygen free radicals. There’s more in oxygenated blood, arterial blood versus venous blood. So even that type of blood can come into play.
Bill 6:39
Wow so if the blood vessel is leading to the heart to be re-oxygenated, as opposed to coming from the heart, we can have a different outcome. And are those outcomes worse when the blood is oxygenated or worse when the blood is not oxygenated?
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 6:59
There is no absolute but it tends to be worse when oxygenated. So oxygen is a wonderful molecule, but it can be very toxic when it’s not controlled. And part of my research in post-hemorrhagic stroke patients identified bilirubin oxidation products, which we call boxes, and bilirubin oxidation products are produced in much higher concentration from arterial hemorrhagic stroke versus venous hemorrhaging.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 7:30
And it’s because the oxygen oxidizes the bilirubin and bilirubin is a component of blood. And then the bilirubin oxidation products, which again are called boxes, the boxes are actually three different boxes, box A, B and C. And A and B are super toxic, C a little bit toxic. And that toxicity then produces a secondary biochemical damage in the brain from the hemorrhage itself.
Bill 7:59
Okay, so not only the brain cells go offline, because A. They’re not receiving blood B. They’re being interrupted by the actual blood being outside of the blood vessel, and then causing well poisoning or how would you describe it?
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 8:16
I would call it toxic metabolites. So it’s a metabolite that is very toxic to brain and artery cells, and actually many cells. So yeah, poising maybe, but metabolic toxicity.
Bill 8:29
Okay. And then that metabolic toxicity, is that as severe a problem as as not having oxygen going to that part of the brain? Or are they similar?
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 8:44
Well, it’s a tier. So tier one, the worst is no blood flow to the brain, and that’s very bad. Tier Two is blood flow with a reasonable amount of oxygen that’s best, blood flow with very little oxygen. That’s bad, but not as bad as no blood flow. As blood flow with no oxygen still has good metabolites and takes away bad metabolites.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 9:06
The worst is if you have low or no blood flow, plus toxic metabolites that aren’t flushed, and that would be occurring if the boxes are building up. And that toxicity then makes more swelling, more swelling is more toxic, more swelling is more pressure, more pressure makes harder blood flow, and I know I’m talking to somebody who may have gone through a version of this. It can be a very bad series of events in the first one to three days after a hemorrhagic stroke.
Bill 9:39
So I had the first hemorrhage what they call a micro bleed or a small bleed into the brain, the arteriovenous malformation burst and it was leaking into the brain and that bleed was increasing in size over seven days by the time I went to hospital, and it was about the size of I think your dime, you know, something like that.
Bill 10:09
And then that was causing the symptoms which I was experiencing, which was the numbness on my left side. So that was settled down after they gave me some medication Dexamethasone that settled down and all my sensation came back. And then six weeks later, there was another bleed, which was more dramatic, and the onset was a lot quicker.
Bill 10:34
And that second bleed ended up being about the size, the amount of blood in the head was about the size of a golf ball. And that was sitting there for the best part of two and a half years near the cerebellum. So what it did was that amount of blood clot then took away my memory, my ability to finish a sentence, to remember who came to visit me, to type an email, to concentrate to focus.
Bill 11:10
I didn’t recognize my wife at one point, I couldn’t drive then, I couldn’t be my usual self before all of this happened. And it’s as a result of this big clot being in my head and then just sitting there for quite a long time. And then the doctors told me that as time lapsed, the clot got smaller, because it was being broken down or absorbed by the body or something like that.
Bill 11:39
And as it got smaller, more and more of those things came back, all those things that I’d lost, had come back and they took about a year and a half, two years ago, I was feeling my best that I had ever felt. And then I had the third bleed in November 2014, which was almost two and a half years after the first bleed.
Bill 11:58
And then I had brain surgery. So what you’re describing that I experienced, was that toxicity occurring? Is toxicity more damaging than that. Does it actually take brain cells off line forever? Or does it interfere with them and then they come back like they did with me? What happens there?
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 12:23
Well, the short answer is it depends. So the toxicity coming from the boxes, that is recoverable when the boxes are washed out, which is why I’m hesitant to say poison, it’s more like toxic, you get rid of it. But when other things are going on, things start to add together.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 12:49
So the boxes are more like a toxin that you can flush. However, if there are other things going on, like reactive oxygen, species, oxygen free radicals, now those things change cells and cell constituents at the molecular level, and it’s called oxidation. And in chemistry, it’s a covalent bond. So reactive oxygen species change the chemical structure of important chemicals, like basement membranes, like the membranes of the cell, like the vesicles, like the microtubules.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 13:29
And then they don’t function as they should. And that becomes its own kind of poison, because now the fundamental operation of the cells has been altered. And the only way to fix it is literally carve it out, get rid of it and replace it. That’s not just good blood flow and let it flush. And both can occur. And the boxes are produced because of the reactive oxygen species. So both can be occurring at the same time. And then it becomes degrees.
What Is Physiology?

Bill 14:09
Okay, well, that’s fascinating. So I’ve been down this journey now for the best part of 10 years. And it’s really lovely to hear what you just said, for me, I’m the kind of guy I need to know exactly what’s going on in my brain. And there was nobody that I could ask these questions who would answer in this specific way or in any way that made me understand what the blood in my head was doing other than causing me grief, I suppose. So now, let’s talk a little bit about neurophysiology and what it is. I know it’s made up of two words neuro and physiology. But what does that even mean?
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 14:46
Well, if you don’t mind me saying I’m kind of old. And the degree neurophysiology is not as prevalent as it used to be, it’s been replaced by neuroscience, so it’s the science of neuro. Neurophysiology is the physiology of the brain and the nerves and physiology is how the cells and the tissues function, communicate and talk to each other. So it has a little bit of chemistry, there’s physiology, a little bit of anatomy. And then there’s the extrinsic function.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 15:21
So what you see, so when I’m working if you don’t want me segwaying in this way, as an example, if I’m working with a patient, and I see that their, let’s say reaction times have slowed down. Now my brain in physiology said, well, slower reaction times could be because of action potentials. Action potentials are part of physiology. So I may need to see how their action potentials are impacted that might be slowing down the reaction test, action potentials are analyzed in some cases by an EEG.
Bill 15:40
Action potentials is the ability to do something is that part which instigates the action? Is that right?
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 16:09
Well no, the action potential propagates the message. Okay, so a cell a neuron or a glial cell, or even a sensory cell will initiate an action. So I put my finger I have a reaction, that’s a reflex. What sends the signal from here to here, back again, are action potentials through axons and nerves. So action potentials are like wires and cables that are running the electricity to the different computers. So this is a computer, there’s a little mini-processor here, and they all talk to each other.
Bill 16:48
Okay. So the action potential of a cell or a nerve is something that can be looked at, you can specifically work out whether that’s functioning well or not functioning well.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 17:01
Absolutely. Amplitude, speed and frequency. Yes.
Bill 17:05
Okay. And the EEG is the echo, what is it?
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 17:09
Electroencephalogram. Electro for electricity, encephalo, is for the brain, and gram just means measurement.
Bill 17:19
Yep. Okay, so we pop the amazing looking probes and all the different cables to the head. And then from there, we get feedback from the brain. And we’re able to look at the chart and work out whether there is not enough energy or too much, or what are we looking for?
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 17:40
All of that, too much too little, hyperactive, hypoactive, all of that there are ranges that all of ourselves should be maintaining. And so too much or too little, are both not great. And the analogy that I learned what I was learning this too many years ago, is it’s like walking on the precipice of a mountain, and you’re walking along the path on the top of the mountain, and it’s great, but too far to the right, you fall off and die too far to the left, you fall off and die, you want to stay right in the middle.
Bill 18:16
Okay. And then from there, you can potentially get some information about where that person may need support, what kind of interventions need to take place to support them?
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 18:32
Yes, absolutely.
Where Neurophysiologists Come In?

Bill 18:36
Now, where in the whole team that’s supporting this person do you sit? Because, I imagine a whole bunch of other people that are around that person, that are looking at reports, that are meeting regularly to develop a path forward. Where does the neurophysiologist/neuroscientist sit in that whole team?
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 19:03
Right. So let me go through the steps and that will help. So in the acute phase, when the initial say hemorrhagic stroke hits, some people, it can be like a bolt of lightning, and it hurts and things are really bad. That’s done with emergency physicians, neurosurgeons, emergency physicians, a neurologist in the acute phase to keep the body and the brain alive.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 19:34
Then there’s the high acuity physicians, neuro-intensive care people, interventional neuroradiology, interventional neurosurgeons, that would be either doing the surgery or managing the person after the surgery, when the brain and body is in a very fragile state.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 19:55
And then there’s two steps after that there would be the in hospital where people are getting the person off of the acute monitoring so that the brain and body can, you know, sustain without lots of monitoring, these things are stable. And that would be like no hospital care. And then there’s a rehabilitation facility. They’re now at four steps right?
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 20:22
Now, rehabilitation facilities are where people like me come into play to get a person like you after injury, to higher functioning, and we start off simple, and that’s activities of daily living, you can feed yourself, you can talk you can walk, and simple was an air quotes, because that’s not necessarily simple, that can be very important.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 20:47
And then after some time, and that’s where decision occurs, there’s the next phase of the getting you back to as close to your old you as possible. And that’s where I deal with a lot of people. And I have dealt with people in the earlier phases, but I’m, you know, somewhat specialized. And so I’m in that fifth phase, where I work with a person or people to get you back to the old you, and I use that expression all the time.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 21:18
Before the date of your injury before the date of your stroke. This is the old view, we want to get you back to the new you. And we talk about percentages, you’re 50% of the old you you’re 60% of the old you, we work people back to the old you.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 21:34
That’s where a lot of the neurophysiology people like myself come in the physician extenders to do those last pieces of helping a person, get the brain and body as healthy as possible. And believe me, I’m saying brain and body for a reason. Because if the brain isn’t talking to the body, there’s something missing. So we will have people on exercise bikes, we’re doing all sorts of brain and body and eyes and balance and memory, all integrated to get a person back to their old you.
Bill 22:10
So it sounds like you work in the facility that I was in similar. I may not have seen the person that did your role, for example, but then the people that I did see, were the occupational therapists and physical therapists. So it sounds like you work in conjunction or closely with that team. Is that right?
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 22:33
Absolutely, I work with OTs, PTs, and athletic trainers ATs are doing a lot of rehab for coordination and physical rehabilitation. So OTs, ATs, PTs, Speech Therapist, yes, I work with all of those.
Bill 22:52
Okay. I’m going to tell you a little story that you reminded me of. When you said we make sure that they can feed themselves, etc. One of my first things that I did in rehab, was in occupational therapy, when we were cooking for ourselves. But of course, I was in therapy for a month, learning how to walk again and use my left side again.
Bill 23:20
And I was dumbfounded why they would make me cook my own meals. Or why they would make me prepare my own breakfast. Nobody explained to me that it was part of the rehabilitation process, or at least I didn’t clue in. And I found myself making my own breakfast and being completely frustrated because I couldn’t do it properly.
Bill 23:41
And because I thought that they were supposed to help me get better not I was supposed to cook my own food and wash after myself. It was hilarious. Until I kind of complained about it. And then they said to me, well, this is part of your rehab, we’re here to make sure that when you go home, you can use your arm and your leg appropriately enough to cook your yourself a meal.
Bill 24:08
So that was really interesting time. The way I took that was negatively but I understand now what it was for and that’s excellent. The other thing that happened was there was a lot of conversation before rehabilitation started. So I was at the facility, I would say for about two days, where I wasn’t doing any rehab.
Bill 24:30
I was just laying in bed waiting for rehab to start. And I kept being frustrated with the fact that why am I still in bed like I’m here for rehabilitation, I should be doing the things that I see other people doing, you know, on the particular devices, why aren’t I in there?
Bill 24:47
And what I discovered after again complaining because I’d like to whinge about things every once in a while when I’m feeling helpless, I suppose. I was told that what I’m being evaluated to see what my abilities are, where my deficits are, where specifically the risks are and what help I’m going to need. And once the evaluation was complete, and everybody was in agreement, then they were going to set a course of action for me to go forward and do those next steps.
Bill 25:22
So that was really interesting, again, to learn that, although it seemed like I wasn’t doing anything, the people in the background, were working it all out. And they were finding the right approach that was going to be useful for me and safe, I suppose, as well.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 25:40
Yeah, safe has definitely that factored in. Sure.
Bill 25:43
Yeah. So then that was a very interesting time, it felt like I was in a part of my life, which was going to rehabilitate me to an extent and then set me home, you know, get me out of this whole, nearly almost two year, three year saga that had started with bleeds and all these deficits and all these issues, and all this scares and fears and brain surgery, and it felt like I was going to a threshold that was going to take me over to this place where none of the bad stuff was anymore.
The Care Gap After Stroke

Bill 26:25
And it was all going to be plain sailing from then on. But then I went home, Joseph, and when I went home, I had no idea what I was doing. Not only did I have no idea what I was doing, there was no support there. And my wife who before that she was a mom, she was a wife. She was somebody who went to work and did her thing. She was a daughter to her parents. And she was all those things. What she wasn’t was a nurse. What she wasn’t was trained in the field of neuroscience in any way, shape, or form.
Intro 27:00
If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. Like how long will it take to recover? Will I actually recover? What things should I avoid in case I make matters worse.
Intro 27:17
Doctors will explain things that obviously, you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask. If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you.
Intro 27:40
It’s called a seven questions to ask your doctor about your stroke. These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition. And they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery. Head to the website now, recoveryafterstroke.com and download the guide. It’s free.
Bill 28:03
And we were trying to navigate I’m not sure this abyss of nothingness. And we had no information whatsoever no one to turn to this was the hard part. So what I’d love to do is have a bit of a conversation with you about this gap that almost every stroke survivor that I’ve talked to tells me that they experienced in the very early days of going home and then sometimes for many months. How do you guys deal with that knowing that you are going to send people home to this kind of space of no information and no support or lack of support?
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 28:48
Right? Well, I really have to say we do it very poorly. And it’s disheartening for you it’s it’s heartening for me, for us, because if you notice when I was talking about getting people back to the old you I’m talking 60% 70% 85% I don’t work with people to their 100%.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 29:16
That’s not the way I work the system works in America and Australia. I’ve also worked in France and England and I can tell you it’s the same in all of them. There’s this dead zone and that may not be a great term. But a lot of people post-stroke will get to a percentage at let’s say 75% of the old you know using my terminology.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 29:40
And then they go home. And you know mom isn’t a nurse wife isn’t a nurse husband isn’t a nurse doesn’t have experience in this. You’re left to either try and resurrect some of the stuff that you did when you were in hospital with a therapist and do some of the that again. Or try yourself, I mean, trial and error.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 30:08
And I’m going to tell you what I tell people and it’s inadequate. And what I’m saying it, I know it’s inadequate, but we all need to work better on getting the system, more facile for the patient. And I’m gonna say right now, and hopefully in just a second, support groups are helpful, because a lot of people have been through it before.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 30:34
Sometimes the support groups are very helpful, sometimes they’re less helpful. But there are several that I do refer people to, but let me paraphrase my expression when I have somebody that I’m discharging from care. And I’ll say something like, you know, we’ve agreed that you’re at 75%.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 30:54
We are, discharging you from care, you’re gonna go home, you can do things like the activities of daily living, there’s more room for improvement. We’ve taught you a lot of methods that you can help keep up the progress. But the progress is going to be slow for now. And you really need to keep working at it.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 31:18
And people are getting depressed. So then I say, you may get to a point six months from now and think things are great, but then you might see me or somebody you haven’t seen for a while. And they’re like, Hey, you’re a lot better than you were three months ago or four months ago, because hopefully, it’s going to continue getting better.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 31:36
And maybe you’ll get to 100%, maybe not, but you’re not done if you keep working. And there are some support groups. But unfortunately, the medical system is not going to be there for you unless something bad happens, please don’t have anything bad happen. But we want you to keep getting better and keep moving forward.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 32:03
And that is kind of the goal right now. And that’s the main part of the conversation, there is another part of the conversation that I want to say. Because it’s very important in this sort of discharge conversation. And that is if you get to something that we haven’t trained you on, and you suddenly have forgotten it, okay, and I give examples, you get your okay to drive.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 32:32
Alright, let’s say you’re okay to drive. And for the first time, since the injury, you’re going to drive to Grandma’s and you don’t remember how to get to Grandma’s that could occur, that part of your brain could have been damaged. Don’t worry about it, don’t stress, we will then that’s it, for this to come back. And we’re going to work some of the memory things or some of the older memories.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 32:54
Right, because I can’t know everything that could occur. I literally had somebody that we did a lot of rehab with. And we had them on a stationary bicycle a ton. The first time they got on a regular bicycle, they couldn’t bicycle, you know, can’t do everything. And this was a female and the female came back and said, I can’t bicycle.
The Last Mile – Care Gap After Stroke
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 33:15
Okay, so we had to work balance and you know, some other things. Because we can’t do everything. But if there’s something relatively important, okay, then we’ll work on that a little bit as well. And that’s where things can continue to progress. But it really is an imperfect system for what we in the business called The Last Mile. If you think of it as a journey, that last mile, sadly, the patients are on their own.
Bill 33:47
Yeah. And sounds like that last mile is going to be the one that’s more intensely resource heavy, like it’s going to need a lot of resources to get to that end of that last mile. And I remember telling people, when they were asking me, how’s your recovery coming along? I would say to them, I’m 95%.
Bill 34:09
And I was saying that for years, trying to work out how am I going to get to 96%. And my 95%, three or four years later, was way different compared to my 95% at the beginning, when I first started saying that, my original 95% wasn’t in fact anywhere near 95%.
Bill 34:31
It’s something that I imagined was, but then I couldn’t judge because I had no way to judge. I only judged myself because I was upright. I was for example, able to walk to the kitchen, make something to eat and get back to the couch. And in hindsight, I wasn’t anywhere near 95% but in my mind, I thought that I was. The other thing was I didn’t get the opportunity to ring the facility and go, Hey, I’m struggling with this thing.
Bill 35:04
Remember, when you helped me out with all this stuff? I’ve hit a wall. What are your tips? Or can I attend again, or there seems to have been no, and not for the lack of wanting I would imagine, but no suggestion to touch base, if necessary with anyone from the rehabilitation facility, perhaps with your doctors, but again, your doctors are then taking the same role that they were before the bleeds.
Bill 35:37
Which was, you come in for a meeting, come for a checkup, get some bloods do this do that, you know, there was no additional support go and say for example, they didn’t say to me go and see a neuropsychologist to determine your cognitive ability and to know what to train. So I know that America and Australia are similar in the way that people have explained to me the gaps in the support.
Bill 36:08
And I know there’s a lot of people listening right now, who are going, Yeah, I am that person. What am I supposed to do? What can we tell people who are listening about what they can do to take a little bit of action to support themselves or to get more support.
Bill 36:24
At least in America, the feedback you give me might be more relevant in America, but it’ll still be relevant here, or around the world where people are listening from, and it might jog them and their memory to do something that they didn’t think that they should do or that they could do. What’s something else that people could do now who are listening?
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 36:46
Well, with all due respect, you’re one of the answers Bill, right? People need to listen to people like you who have been through it, find other helpful tips that are helping them because everyone is different. There is no one answer. Support groups where there’s a group of people that have been through something similar, and what have they been able to do?
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 36:46
My biggest patient referral is literally patients from support groups where my patients have gone to the support group. And somebody says, Well, I’m having this problem, oh, well, doctor Clark can help you with that. So and I’m not advertising, I’m just giving an example.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 37:25
Not practicing medicine, none of that stuff. But the network and the communicating because I can’t give one answer. It could be speech therapy, it couldn’t be memory, it could be psychology, could be nutrition. I had a person post-stroke, who had a balance problem, but he didn’t have a balance problem. But it came across as a balance problem.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 37:51
And I don’t want to go into all the details. But talking, communicating networking, finding like-minded people, and then finding a clinician who’s in the field, and it doesn’t have to be a medical doctor. In America, there are physician extenders, nurse practitioners, athletic trainers, physical therapists, occupational therapists, speech therapists, psychologists, who usually work with physicians, and can make referrals or suggestions on the right person or people to see for specific things, addressing specific things.
Bill 38:36
Yeah, definitely don’t do it on your own, is what I’m getting out of this is you need to get involved with groups, whether they are on social media or locally to you whatever you prefer. And then you need to be able to communicate with each person and get a feel for maybe they know somebody that can help you or maybe they’ve dealt with something similar to you, and they’ve got some advice or some tips.
Bill 38:59
It’s definitely not something to try and work out alone, it’s unlikely that you’re going to work out this part of stroke recovery on your own, we don’t have the tools, the resources, the energy, the capacity in the brain, all sorts of things are difficult after restrict the physical limitations, for example.
Bill 39:19
So I love that idea of kind of getting more involved in a community or as much involved in a community as you have the energy to do so. Because there’s a lot of people that have been there through this before you you’re not on your own, you might feel like it, but you’re definitely not on your own.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 39:38
Right, everybody is different. But there are a lot of similarities that can from historical precedent, other people been through it, and they may have ideas on how you might help with your next step.
Bill 39:55
Yeah, you briefly mentioned nutrition. I think nutrition is one of the keys to supporting the brain. And it’s a journey that I think most stroke survivors should go on, they should learn about how better to support their brain after stroke so that it serves them better. And their deficits are not as serious their brain fog is not as crazy.
Bill 40:18
Now we met because you and your colleagues contacted me a little while ago to tell me about a product that you’re developing, hopefully to support people with their brain and to help the brain create better, more efficient energy and use that more effectively. Now, this is not an ad. And I wanted to talk about it because it’s really important because it is one of those things to supplement like many other supplements that already exist out there.
Brain Energy Metabolism – Dr. Joseph F. Clark
Bill 40:55
Which is similar or different forms, that is designed to create a place where the brain can operate more efficiently. And now your product is called Tricerapro. I know it’s in the very early stages of development and being made available to the public. But tell me a little bit about the journey that got you from all the stuff that you’re doing to finding this other way to also help people get their brain working.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 41:31
Sure, and thanks for the question, Bill. So the journey is fascinating. I will abbreviate it a little bit. So I was working with a neurosurgeon in England. And he and I and several of us, but we communicated a lot. We came to the conclusion that after stroke, and this is actually mostly hemorrhagic stroke patients, neurosurgeons take care a lot of those.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 42:01
After hemorrhagic stroke, the patient’s brains tended to be in an energy depleted situation. Now, energy metabolism is critical for almost all brain functions. And we were doing magnetic resonance spectroscopy and found that a lot of the brains were metabolically compromised.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 42:24
And then we brainstormed on what are things that are good for brain energy metabolism. And believe me, we went through lots of them, you start this big and we came down to this. And the three we came down to was creatine, Beta-hydroxybutyrate, and magnesium. And they’re all essential for brain energy metabolism, and actually the whole body energy metabolism, but the brain to a unique situation. And we came to the conclusion for those three were very good for the brain.
Bill 42:58
Let’s get back for a second. So what are those three? I reckon that most people that have gone to the gym have heard of creatine, I’m not sure how many have heard of beta-hydroxybutyrate. And what was the next one?
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 43:12
Magnesium.
Bill 43:13
And magnesium, and most people would have heard of magnesium, in the old days, I used to take magnesium, for muscle relaxation for things like that to support that type of thing. So tell me about what they are and how they support or how they help in the brain.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 43:29
Right, so yeah, thanks. Sorry about that I got ahead of myself. So creatine is a natural compound, the human body can make it but the human body can only make about two grams a day. Creatine is essential inside the brain for energy metabolism because creatine gets converted to creatine phosphate. And creatine phosphate is a buffer that maintains the concentration of ATP high ATP is the energy currency without ATP.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 43:57
We can’t have action potentials we talked about earlier really cannot have any metabolic function because all metabolic function is paid for through ATP. Fossil creatine buffers ATP concentration, in other words, keeps it high. So it’s like gas reserves. Creatine plus creatine phosphate is gasoline reserved for ATP with ATP being gasoline.
Bill 44:19
Okay, so let’s so we can differentiate between the people who take it for the gym and the people who take it for their brain. What’s the difference? Why do you know why might the people taking it for the gym? Take it and then what’s the benefit? What’s the difference for the people that are taking it for their brain now we in the brain was creating energy, but what are the gym junkies doing it for?
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 44:41
So creating, it has similar benefits for both and that is creatine has benefits to all tissues that have what’s called a high and dynamic energy demand. So muscles, my biceps doing nothing. Then I curl 50 pounds my biceps has a high energy demand and went from low to high, so that’s a high end dynamic energy demand that when my brain is talking, and literally, if I’m speaking, there are five main regions of the brain that have to talk to each other rapidly with high energy to be able to get, you know, mouth music.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 45:23
Speech is something that is impaired in a lot of stroke patients. Now, sometimes it’s from damage, but sometimes it’s from energy mismatch. And, again, there’s lots of reasons, but the creatine is helping the brain like the muscle, and that the brain regions have high and dynamic energy demands. And so therefore, it’s maintaining the ability to meet those high and dynamic energy demands, instead of a constraction. It’s a lot of firing of the action potentials.
Bill 45:56
Okay, so it’s a similar type of contraction, that’s not physically visible, that’s happening in the brain, for lack of a better way to describe it. And as a result, that, that the larger levels of creatine or the greater quantities of creatine available, the more potential for the brain to take up that creatine and then use it so that it can create those action potentials.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 46:21
And create and maintain those action potentials. Yes, absolutely.
Bill 46:24
Okay, awesome. So, what about magnesium? What does it do, again, in the brain, because I know what I used it fore, you hear people who suffer from cramps in the carbs or wherever somebody might say to them take some magnesium, it helps, what does it do in the brain?
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 46:43
So in the brain, it does a lot of things, the two main things that I’ll talk about, or magnesium is an essential, and I mean, essential cofactor for ATP, which I just mentioned. So in other words, if you don’t have enough magnesium, you might as well not have as much ATP.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 47:01
So for every single ATP, one ATP molecule, each ATP molecule is literally holding a magnesium. And if it’s not holding magnesium, it can’t work. So ATP is an essential cofactor for the use of the function of ATP. Magnesium also is an a beneficial antagonist of calcium. Calcium is a very important molecule.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 47:28
But after a brain injury after a stroke, calcium control is often lost, or the control is diminished. So calcium is now having detrimental effects. Because calcium can overload the brain. And it can say, with extra calcium in and around the brain cells, it can release more vesicles more neurotransmitters, so you lose control of your neurotransmitters.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 47:54
These cells don’t talk to each other. Well, magnesium will temper that won’t stop it. But it’ll temper that detrimental effect of the calcium toxicity. Because too much calcium is most definitely toxic. So magnesium definitely has two benefits for the brain under those circumstances.
Calcium Can Contribute To Stroke
Bill 48:14
I know you’re not a nutritionist. So we’re going to put a disclaimer here because I’m going to ask you a question about nutrition. Don’t listen to us folks don’t do what we say, this is just a conversation that always consult your medical team for information on your specific condition. So if calcium can be a problem, then would you say that my conclusion that you should avoid dairy and high calcium food in that time, would that be something worth considering and worth doing or not?
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 48:55
Not automatically, again, consult a dietitian or a nutritionist because I don’t know what their blood levels aren’t. Right? So if their blood levels are already normal, then the answer is yes. If the blood levels are low, maybe the low calcium actually contributed to the stroke that can absolutely occur.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 49:20
A person can also be on calcium channel blockers for blood pressure. And obviously we know that misaligned blood pressure not a precise term, can can cause or contribute to ischemic and hemorrhagic strokes. So I’m gonna have to answer not automatically, but certainly feel free to consult a physician and hopefully that physician is going to say, first thing I want to do is get a blood test.
Bill 49:45
Wow. I love that. I never would have expected that. That’s what it comes out of it. So calcium can be responsible or partly responsible or contribute to stroke?
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 49:56
Absolutely, yes. So many blood pressure medications. Our calcium channel blockers that lower the amount of calcium that gets into the cells. And so if a person is on a calcium channel blocker for a while, and then they go off of it, their blood pressure can go up. And we absolutely know a drastic, unexpected rise in blood pressure can cause a hemorrhagic stroke. So the answer is yes. It’s not a one step process. But yeah, I could connect those dots.
Bill 50:29
Fascinating. Wow. Okay. So what about beta-hydroxybutyrate? What is that? I’ve never heard of it before. Tell me what, what does it do?
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 50:42
So beta-hydroxybutyrate is a fascinating molecule. It is one of the ketone bodies. So people talk about a ketogenic diet. There are two physiological ketone bodies acetyl acetate and beta-hydroxybutyrate. They’re the two physiological ketone bodies circulate in the bloodstream, on about a ratio not written in stone, but about a ratio of four to one for beta-hydroxybutyrate, one acetoacetate.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 51:13
So beta-hydroxybutyrate is the more prevalent one. Beta-hydroxybutyrate is the brain’s second favorite food. Favorite food number one is glucose. But glucose has problems with regard to diabetes, hemoglobin a one C, like oscillation, beta-hydroxybutyrate, doesn’t have that problem.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 51:35
And glucose, when it gets into the brain, it costs energy. And the energy metabolism of the brain has already compromised. So to use glucose, the brain has to actually expend energy, beta-hydroxybutyrate, when it gets into the brain, the first thing it does gives off energy, there is no energy investment to get the energy out the energy of beta-hydroxybutyrate, the structure of beta-hydroxybutyrate is such that it doesn’t need energy to give the energy out.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 52:10
It liberates the energy pretty much right away. And then after that beta-hydroxybutyrate, then feeds into the mitochondrial system. The mitochondria is what makes a huge majority of the ATP in the brain. There are other ways to make ATP. But really the mitochondria is well and above all the others. And beta-hydroxybutyrate and acetyl. acetate, both feed into the mitochondria to help make a lot more ATP.
Bill 52:40
Okay, so a person can support their brain by supplementing with say, creatine, magnesium and beta-hydroxybutyrate. Now, that’s what the product you’re developing does. It’s combining those three things to support the brain. If people have got better levels of those. What are they? Minerals? Chemicals? What are they?
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 53:13
Well, magnesium is a mineral, it’s a metal. And then the other two are chemicals, creatine and beta-hydroxybutyrate.
Bill 53:20
If they’ve got more of those available, is that supporting brain function? And what is it doing? What might people notice that they’re doing that’s happening easier or better or recovering from what might they experience?
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 53:39
Well the goal in the way the product was designed is better energy metabolism and energy signaling and how that is manifest to the person to the physiology the functional physiology is different person to person. But the most common things are more fluent speech, because the speech requires a lot of energy, less brain fog, there’s a lot of, in my vernacular, temporal disturbance with people.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 53:48
Rhey feel slow, things are happening around them, sometimes too fast, sometimes too slow, or they’re perceived slow, or they were walking and all of a sudden there was a car, and it seemed like it was going 100 miles an hour, but it wasn’t, you know, those are temporal disturbances. And all of those metabolites help improve timing, because energy time and energy is the timing within the brain requires the energy to be there all the time.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 54:45
If the energy is mismatch, then the timing is loss and then there are these temporal disturbances. A little bit with memory as far as the short-term memory, not the long-term memory. So remembering shopping This, what you were just saying in a conversation, things that are involved in energy metabolism, temporal disturbances, brain fog, brain fatigue, that’s where the Tricerapro can help.
Bill 55:17
So we’ve spoken about something that can support the brain after the stroke, after going home, there’s this gap by suffered from chronic fatigue, so bad that getting up from the couch to go to the bathroom was a chore. And then it had been wiped out four hours later. And the fatigue changed and got less impactful over the years as it went on.
Bill 55:44
But I’m 10 years down and I still, from time to time get impacted with fatigue, what I’ve noticed is that some foods, when I eat certain foods, they interrupt my energy levels. And although I’m eating food, and suppose that that’s supposed to help, that actually makes my brain not work so well.
Avoiding Certain Food
Bill 56:03
So do you know, of the types of things that might interfere with the uptake of magnesium or creatine or the production of natural occurring creatine, beta-hydroxybutyrate, and magnesium, what are some of the things we might consider avoiding or paying attention to if we consume it, and how that might make us feel so that we are not getting in our own way when it comes to energy and fatigue and the way that the brain is operating?
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 56:38
The first thing that comes to mind is high fructose corn syrup, the processed sugar that’s in a lot of processed foods, you know, the Twinkies, the grocery store doughnuts, that type of thing.
Bill 56:54
Sodas.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 56:56
Those things, yes. Those are very negatively impactful on the liver metabolism, which is important for the metabolites that go to the brain. The brain actually does not like fructose. But if the liver is occupying its time managing the metabolism of the fructose, the high-fructose corn syrup, it can’t manage the other things for the brain. And that one just screams at me.
Bill 57:28
So that’s interesting, because I’ve never heard sugar and the liver being spoken about together. I’ve heard about sugar and the fact that we need to create more insulin so that the insulin can deal with that. And then that’s really energy taxing on the body. And then if you’re not exercising, you’re, you have way too much energy that’s coming in, and you’re not able to do anything with it expended in any way, because you’ve had a stroke, and you might not be as physical yet. Or you might not have the energy to do it. But how does the liver get involved in dealing with or metabolizing glucose? Because I assumed that it was just the insulin the pancreas doing all the hard lifting.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 58:15
Right? Well, we were talking about diet. So and that preface is important, because the way I think about it is if we eat something goes into our stomachs and goes into our intestines, 70% of the stuff, the nutrients that go through the gut, goes through the liver first. So the liver is filtering, processing testing.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 58:43
So it’s got to manage all of the fats, the good fats, the bad fats, it’s got to measure that, manage the glucose, the sucrose, the dextrose, the maltose, and the fructose high fructose corn syrup. And I mean, let’s do the high fructose corn syrup, because I’ve been bashing on it. And I’m going to continue. So high fructose corn syrup when it gets into the liver, and you can consume grams of the stuff in one Cola.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 59:10
And when it gets into the liver, the liver actually has to take two phosphates and two ATPs. And it’s spending energy to phosphorylate it so chemically modifying it, and it can take up so much of the phosphate from the rest of the body that that phosphate could have been on magnesium or calcium. So now the fructose is impacting the magnesium and calcium concentration in the body.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 59:35
Also, that fructose now needs more water so it’s absorbing the water from the rest of the body. So now you have a hydration maybe a little bit of an imbalance but it’s changing the metabolic environment. Now the liver needs to do something with it. Maybe it’s going to convert it to fat. So now the fructose goes to fat so you’re now making more unhealthy fats, or maybe the fructose is going through and do being produced to acetyl acetate, beta-hydroxybutyrate, that could be a good thing, but that’s costly.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 1:00:09
Now in small amounts that cost is very beneficial, because the liver now expense, the cost. And then that investment in cost energy costs the brain benefits from. But if you’re taking something like the beta hydroxy, butyrate, or other supplements, the the liver can make other decisions on what to do with that high fructose corn syrup. Or, you know, after it’s been processed, so the liver has a tremendous job when you take a drink that 12 ounces of Cola.
Bill 1:00:47
Okay, and I picked up the things that pricked my ears were ATP. So we spoke about ATP at the beginning of the conversation, and we spoke about it now at the beginning, we talked about how important it was for the brain. And how necessary it is to have an abundance of it to support the brain.
Bill 1:01:05
And what you’re saying is when we consume something like a soda, the ATP, instead of being used at the brain is being used in the liver, to deal with the high fructose corn syrup and metabolize that, and therefore depleting our ATP levels, and therefore leaving less for the brain to use.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 1:01:28
Not directly but yes. There’s a couple of steps in there. But yes, it’s a negative impact on the overall energy metabolism. The answer is yes, absolutely.
Bill 1:01:40
Okay. Well, that’s the first time I’ve heard that, that’s great, because that adds a couple of more bits of information in my knowledge, I know that we should avoid high fructose corn syrup. But the question is, I didn’t really understand specifically why other than the general reasons, which is, it’s not good for you. And that was good enough for me.
Bill 1:02:04
And also, I noticed how I felt after I drink a soda after the brain injury. And I felt terrible, a little while later, like 20 30 minutes later. So that’s very interesting. Well, you can see what kind of guy I am, I’m extremely curious, I want answers to questions, then answer to that. And we could go on like this forever, I really appreciate your time coming in and giving us a little bit of information on what to do after we go home, and we’re lacking that one on one support.
Bill 1:02:38
And, we need to do something to support ourselves. And to start somewhere, I would encourage people to really get curious about nutrition and how that supports the brain, and to consider what they can add to their diet, but more importantly, what they can take out of their diet. Because I was, in my way, a lot at the beginning, I was getting in the way of my own recovery by just doing things that I didn’t know, weren’t supporting me, until I became curious about it.
Bill 1:03:09
I also didn’t have somebody like you, Joe, that I could ring up and have a conversation with and say, Hey, should I be doing this? Or should I be doing that? Just from a general conversation perspective, I didn’t have that. Nobody does. We don’t have access to people like you, regularly unless you happen to be a family member. So I really appreciate the fact that you came on and you shared some of this information with the listeners. I think it’s gonna help a lot.
Dr. Joseph F. Clark 1:03:37
Yeah, super happy to be here, Bill. Thanks for having me.
Bill 1:03:42
My pleasure. Thanks for being on the podcast. Thanks for joining us on today’s episode. To learn more about my guests including links and to download a full transcript of the entire interview. Please go to recoveryafterstroke.com/episodes If you would like to support this podcast, the best way to do it is to leave a five star review and a few words about what the show means to you on iTunes and Spotify.
Bill 1:04:05
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Intro 1:04:33
Importantly, we present many podcast designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals opinions and treatments. Protocols discussed during any podcast are the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed.
Intro 1:04:50
All content on this website and any linked blog, podcast or video material controlled this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis, the content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice.
Intro 1:05:12
The information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances or health objectives. Do not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose treat, cure or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional.
Intro 1:05:27
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Intro 1:05:52
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The post Addressing The Care Gap After Stroke – Dr. Joseph F. Clark appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.
1 hr 7 min
September 05, 2022 Hemochromatosis And Stroke – Shelley Christie
Shelley Christie didn’t realize how serious the condition Hemochromatosis was until the condition created clots that caused a stroke in 2019 when she was 44 years old.
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Highlights:
01:33 Introduction
02:53 Hemochromatosis And Stroke
13:55 Neurological Fatigue
20:54 Family Struggles
28:22 Facing The Mortality
35:58 Connecting More
40:46 Stroke Is The Best Thing That Ever Happened To Me
49:28 It’s About Deep Thinking
54:11 My Mum’s A Stroke Survivor
59:42 The Importance of Mental Health
1:07:11 Memory Triggers
1:14:51 Compassion Goes A Long Way
Transcription:
Shelley Christie 0:00
I got given a pack when we left the hospital. Margaret, who was an amazing stroke coordinator, she was fantastic. She gave us a pack which had lots of information on it. And I still have that pack sitting in the same spot. And every now and then I go and read a couple of things. Just to remind myself, you know, if I feel a little bit anxious or memories are coming back for me that I’m not liking. So I’ll go back and I’ll read something and then I’ll go, if something happens, I just need to do that.
Intro 0:51
This is the recovery after stroke podcast, with Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after stroke.
Bill Gasiamis 0:59
Hello, and welcome to episode 214 of the recovery after stroke podcast. If you’re a stroke survivor with a story to share about your experience with stroke, and you have been thinking about reaching out to be a guest on the show but we’re waiting for the right time to reach out.
Bill Gasiamis 1:19
This is it! If you go to recoveryafterstroke.com/contact you’ll find a form that you can fill out to apply to be a guest on the show. As soon as I receive it. I will respond with more details on how you can choose the time that works for you for both of us to meet over zoom.
Introduction – Brain Stem Stroke

Bill Gasiamis 1:33
Now my guest today is Shelley Christie who at age 44 experienced an ischemic stroke with two underlying causes, including a PFO also known as a patent foramen ovale or a hole in the heart as well as the blood disorder Hemochromatosis. Shelley Christie, welcome to the podcast.
Shelley Christie 1:51
Thanks, Bill. Thanks for having me.
Bill Gasiamis 1:53
My pleasure. Thank you for being here. Another fellow Aussie. We’re rare.
Shelley Christie 1:58
Yes, it’s good. It’s good to be an Aussie.
Bill Gasiamis 2:02
It’s good to be an Aussie. It’s not good that we’re rare on the podcast, but that’s alright. We love everybody.
Shelley Christie 2:08
Pros and cons.
Bill Gasiamis 2:10
Tell me a little bit about what happened to you.
Shelley Christie 2:13
So May 11, 2019, I had a stroke. And then May 28, had a PFO closure. So that all happened quite quickly. So prior to that, I wanted to see if I could go back because I think we need to look at what the events had to happen. So 2017, I actually had a DVT Deep Vein Thrombosis in my leg after an injury.
Hemochromatosis And Stroke
Shelley Christie 2:53
And then I had PAs on my lungs a week later, clots on my lungs. So this all started two years prior to the stroke. And I have an iron condition called hemochromatosis. I have iron overload. And I didn’t realize at the time in 2017, that was a lot of the cause of my organs were struggling to work because my iron was really, really high.
Shelley Christie 3:29
And part of that is when your iron is so high, your blood sort of slows down a bit gets a little bit congealed. And I didn’t realize that I was having that issue so bad, and then my blood pressure went up. So leading up to that so 2000 and then 2019, I had the stroke.
Shelley Christie 3:57
And I had been feeling okay. And after the PAs and the DVTs and all that I just continued my life as normal, not realizing that it could potentially lead to a stroke. So that particular day, I was feeling quite tired. I am not the type of person to go and lie down so I said to him I’m not feeling that great. I’m just gonna lie down. I got a bit of a headache. I don’t normally get headaches.
Shelley Christie 4:28
And because we were going out to my girlfriend’s daughter’s birthday, so I got myself up, we went. We were coming home, we drive. We’re like we’re driving home and we were only two minutes around the corner. And I said to my husband, I’m not feeling well. And he said “what you mean?” And I said I’m just not feeling great. And then he said he couldn’t understand what I was saying. I do remember getting out of the car and walking into the house.
Shelley Christie 5:02
That’s about everything. After that’s a bit of a blur. And I lost all my left side. The next bit I remember was being in recess. And Ed, and they started the thrombolysis. So if it wasn’t for my husband and my kids noticing my face, and calling the ambulance so quickly, they got here within five minutes. And then they got me into Frankston Hospital, I think it was in they said it was in like, 45 minutes. So I was thermalized, within just under two hours,
Bill Gasiamis 5:40
Really good.
Shelley Christie 5:41
Which is awesome. Then I was in hospital for about four or five days, I couldn’t eat or drink for just under 72 hours. I think the worst part about that was when I was wheeled up to the stroke ward, because I was so young. And here I am. In with 80-year-olds, because I think most people, you know, link stroke to being old. And it’s just not the case at all. The more I talk to people that it’s actually really quite common. And that was really confronting, really confronting and I’m like, “What am I doing here? Why is this happening to me ”
Shelley Christie 6:35
And at first, one of the neurologists didn’t actually see the clot. And it was a young neurologist that came in and said, when I was in emergency, it was him that said, No, what’s that? Apparently, I thought I got told. And it was him, the young neurologist that actually said, “we want to find out why, because you’re so young, why this has happened to you.” He said, “I just want to do one more test.” And that’s when he checked my heart.
Shelley Christie 7:09
He said, “You know, I don’t want you to be concerned, we’ll probably find nothing. But we’re going to do what we call the bubble test. We’re just going to check your heart.” He said, “You know, sometimes, there might be a hole there but, no need to worry.” And I remember getting wheeled down, I’m thinking “Oh, my goodness, what is going on?” And then they did the bubble test. And you can see it because of the way they position you.
Shelley Christie 7:40
And so what they did is they draw some blood out. And then they mix your blood with a bit of saline, and then they shoot it back in. So it produces bubbles. And then it goes up to your heart. And it’s not meant to bounce around but mine just bounced and I’m like “What’s that?”
Shelley Christie 8:06
And she said, “I’m not meant to say” I said, I can see it. And I just remember looking at her thinking. And I actually did say to her, “that’ll be right. Of course, I’ve got a hole in my heart.” Happy days. I couldn’t believe, and I thought, “oh my goodness, what’s going on here”
Bill Gasiamis 8:29
Hole in the heart’s really common. And it’s not that serious if they know about it and get it early. And then I’ve interviewed a whole heap of stroke survivors who have got PFOs. And it’s been revealed because they’ve had a stroke, and then they’ve been treated for the stroke. And then they’ve also very rapidly been treated for the PFO.
Bill Gasiamis 8:50
And they’re kind of sorting out the cause of the stroke. And that gives a bit of relief. And I suppose certainty going forward that that issue is sorted and then they’re not going to have another stroke because of a peer foe. But, at this stage, you don’t know about the hemochromatosis?
Shelley Christie 9:10
No, no, I knew. I was diagnosed with hemochromatosis at very young age. But back then the doctors, you know, they just said “Oh, you’ll be fine. You’re female. You have your periods, and, just every now and then go and give blood.” So that was in my very early 20s. So I didn’t have a hematologist. I didn’t have any of that. And I think hemochromatosis is becoming a little bit more common.
Shelley Christie 9:45
It’s a genetic to both my parents. I’m a compound so both my parents are carriers for me to have it. My mom’s brother has it. He hasn’t quite you know, he’s older. So it’s actually really quite serious. because it causes. So when I in stores in your organs, it can cause heart disease, kidney issues, liver disease, and clots.
Bill Gasiamis 10:13
So how did they manage it?
Shelley Christie 10:15
So I’m now under I go, and I have any calvini sections. So they just take out, they’re gonna take out your blood. And then you’re behind. It’s amazing,
Bill Gasiamis 10:32
It’s amazing. Do you remember ever hearing somebody talk about the old days at the turn of the last century where they used to do a thing called bloodletting or they used to, like open up a blood vessel?
Shelley Christie 10:43
That’s basically what it is.
Bill Gasiamis 10:45
Oh my gosh. Blood donatable. Any part of that blood donatable?
Shelley Christie 10:51
They don’t donate mine. But I’m not too sure. Actually, that’s a really good question. I know they don’t mind. Because I go through private but I do know, I do think now. If you’ve got hemochromatosis, the Australian blood bank, you can go through as a patient there.
Bill Gasiamis 11:15
And they’ll regularly see you. Yeah,
Shelley Christie 11:19
I believe so. Yeah. But I just go into my hematologist. So I guess my cardiologist is there as well.
Bill Gasiamis 11:27
Yeah, So how often do you need to give blood?
Shelley Christie 11:31
Um, well, thankfully lately. Normally, about August, I start to feel a bit off. And then I start probably from August, once a month through to December. But I’ve just had my iron levels checked, and they’re actually really good.
Bill Gasiamis 11:53
What do you mean? This always happens in August?
Neurological Fatigue After A Brain Stem Stroke
Shelley Christie 11:56
So I tend to have some VT sections. So like for four or five months, and then I’m okay. For the rest of the year. But everybody’s different. Some people have to have it every month, especially men. Men have to because they don’t have periods.
Bill Gasiamis 12:19
Yeah. Okay. I see. Right, so your nature is supporting it for the majority of the year, but then it gets sort of, to the end of the year. And then there’s a whole bunch of build-up that needs to be resolved by bloodletting, a little more than usual
Shelley Christie 12:40
I can generally tell because my joints get sore, my legs are really sore. And I get really tired, I get more tired on top of the stroke fatigue.
Bill Gasiamis 12:51
Okay, yeah. Bloody hell. That additional fatigue, that’s the thing that I suffer from, I’ve got a thyroid condition, and the thyroid condition causes the same neurological fatigue as the stroke does. So I never know whether it’s my thyroid or the stroke. Mostly, I think the thyroid is what’s affecting me. And if I’m not on to taking my kelp supplement, which has iodine, if I don’t take that, especially over winter, I do notice that I experience dramatic fatigue, and I’ve just gone through about of it last two weeks.
Bill Gasiamis 13:30
And it’s at that point where when I’m fatigued, honestly, I just cannot do anything. It doesn’t matter how much I want to, nothing’s getting done. And I don’t even call people or respond to them or anything. I just can’t do it. And people take it the wrong way. But I apologize later, you know, when I say “look, I’ve been stuffed or I can’t deal with what was happening”
Shelley Christie 13:52
You shouldn’t have to apologize. But we do.
Bill Gasiamis 13:55
We do. I think I agree with we shouldn’t have to, but they’re never going to understand what we’re going through. So there’s only one way to for them to understand that and we don’t want them to understand by being in our situation. So tell me about neurological fatigue. From your perspective. What’s your experience of it like?
Shelley Christie 14:15
So if I’m not good, and I should know better at slowing down. I have two children who play lots of sport and I work, so when I get very tired, I have left side weakness. Especially my hand and I can see it in my face. My left eye drops a bit, which has done for a long time actually. So I spoke to a neurologist about that, but I just get so vague and you know, I can be standing there.
Shelley Christie 15:05
And I have had actually people say to me, “Oh, we kinda think you don’t like us because you just kind of you don’t really..” And I’m like, “Oh, was that that day?” And they’ll go “Yeah.” I’m so sorry. I’m just really particularly tired. And I’m very vague. Like some days I can’t even get words out, or my short-term memory is really bad. But then my long-term memory come back. It’s really bizarre. And I’ve struggled with that. Some days, I think I can’t speak properly. But I asked people and they’re like, “no, no, you’re okay.” But I feel like I can’t.
Bill Gasiamis 15:53
Oh my gosh, so, and you look alright for somebody who’s had a stroke.
Shelley Christie 15:59
Oh, how many times have I heard that? If I had $1 for every time someone said that to me, I’d be rich right now.
Bill Gasiamis 16:04
Yeah, yeah. #youlookgreat. I get it. I get it. So in the end, you get vague, so I get cranky. I don’t get vague. I get short tempered.
Shelley Christie 16:22
Actually, you know what, I do, too.
Bill Gasiamis 16:27
And then the next couple of days are all the apologies, who do I have to bring in apologize for being an idiot to and not speaking nicely. But I explained myself these days, and I know more, I know exactly what happened more, more so. So I’m a little bit a lot better at making good, because when I’m cranky, and short tempered, oh my gosh, I hate being that way. But I just am because I don’t mean it. And I’m not trying to be it.
Bill Gasiamis 16:58
And I’m trying to not be it. But I just cannot avoid it. And I’m gonna have to stop it. I don’t know if it’s even possible. Or if I have the cognitive ability to stop myself before then. Because you know how normally you can learn to stop misbehaving in a certain situation, because somebody says to you, “Hey, that’s not appropriate.” And then you go, Ah, okay, you don’t do that in this particular situation. Okay, I won’t do that anymore. I can’t do that with this crankiness and fatigue. I’ve actually got to go through the cycle of being an idiot, regret it later. Apologize, a day or two down.
Shelley Christie 17:37
Yeah. And it’s really difficult to explain that to people, I think my crankiness is because I’m just exceptionally tired. All the time. All the time. I don’t think I’ve had a day in the last three years where I haven’t been tired. And, you know, you just plod along. You just keep going, like, oh, anyway, I just keep going. And I do that for my kids too. But sometimes I’m my own worst enemy. Because I don’t take time to rest. And I have to admit COVID was actually quite good for me. Because it forced me to rest.
Bill Gasiamis 18:28
Nice, nice.
Shelley Christie 18:28
Because here in Victoria, Melbourne, we were one of the most lockdown cities in the world. And even though I’m on the peninsula, where clusters regional they put us in Metro. So we were in all the lock downs.
Bill Gasiamis 18:42
Yeah. So we had in the two years, leading up to November of 2021, November, December 2021. We were locked down for the best part.
Shelley Christie 18:55
Yeah. I mean, mentally, I think, looking at statistics and stuff for people who are young stroke patients, who depression is huge. And I know I spiraled quite rapidly. But I’ve had a history. So, you know, had postnatal after my children, but after that, when I was going through rehab, they also gave me a psychologist because I couldn’t understand why this was happening
Bill Gasiamis 19:44
To you. You took it personally.
Shelley Christie 19:50
And I didn’t have, I didn’t feel and I don’t know If anybody listens to this, you know that I don’t want to offend anyone because I had a small, a really good small network, who were really supportive to how they could support. Because, like I said, if you haven’t been through it, it’s really hard to understand.
Shelley Christie 20:20
So I pretty much after, just kept going, so people would just see me and then like, “she’s fine.” But I wasn’t. I wasn’t, it was hard. And, you know, even for the carers, and your family. So my two girls and my husband, just as hard for them. I haven’t heard it, but I don’t think people talk about that a lot.
Family Struggles

Bill Gasiamis 20:54
Not at all. My wife did it really hard. My family members did really hard, but my wife took the brunt of it. Because when it happened to me, my kids were teenagers, my two boys were teenagers. And they were pricks, they didn’t care about anybody, about them themselves, you know, just the standard teenage thing. And I couldn’t explain the condition. And I couldn’t explain how much I was struggling and how much help I needed. Also couldn’t do that with my wife. But she’s kind of like, head down, bum up kind of person.
Bill Gasiamis 21:28
She’s just brutally advancing the course, you know, whatever the course is. And at the same time, she’s studying. She’s gone back to university studying her psychology course. And then in the same time, her mum passed away. I’ve had a stroke. It was just mental time, right. And she was in a tough and I was at counseling. So I was doing way better than her from a psychological perspective, because I immediately booked myself into a counselor.
Bill Gasiamis 22:06
It had been a habit of mine. Anyway, I’d been doing that since I was 25. So by 37, I had a 12 year relationship with this counselor. But I wanted to get her into counseling, I knew that I was causing harm by being a stroke survivor, inadvertently. And I knew that she was lacking the resources because she went from a mom, to being a mom and a human and herself. And you know, all the things I showed them to fight as to a caregiver of a stroke survivor of her neurological patient. There’s no support, there was no book that she was given.
Bill Gasiamis 22:46
There was no “call these numbers if you need them.” There was nothing, there was just go home. And you know, he’ll be right. And man, I wasn’t right. I was hallucinating. I was having episodes where I thought maybe this is happening again. So we were always worried and panicked. We were anxious. The amount of times I went back to hospital and I’m not sure if I’m having another stroke.
Bill Gasiamis 23:11
You know that routine? Oh, my God, there was so many of those times, she would have to drive me on all hours and drop everything. And she had no support. So I hear what you’re saying, your girls, how young were they?
Shelley Christie 23:27
So I’ve got two daughters. Kayla was seven and a half. And Kendall was six. So little, very little. And you know, they still suffer. Especially my youngest. You can see it, she has that worry that I have. “Is this going to happen again? And in next time, am I going to die?” I can see that in her. Like if I say “oh my god, I’ve got a headache.”
Shelley Christie 24:11
And you see the look on her face. But how do you explain that to children, even your partner or your husband or your wife? I mean, it’s always in the back of your mind. I mean, even on the day of the heart surgery. I’ll try and say this tearing up, because I tear up and that’s another thing, I get very teary. I hear that a lot from stroke survivors
Bill Gasiamis 24:39
Pseudobulbar Affect
Shelley Christie 24:42
Oh really, well that’s something I don’t know
Bill Gasiamis 24:43
You need to Google that, the pseudobulbar affect it’s a condition that impacts your emotions. The emotion sense of your brain and they make you cry over the kitty cat tripping over
Shelley Christie 24:57
I’m shocking. If somebody says to me, because I’ve done a lot of work on myself since then. So the stroke isn’t. I don’t see it as time goes on, I don’t see it as such a negative thing. I actually, I’ve done a lot of growth for myself. Which is good.
Bill Gasiamis 25:20
Personal Growth is amazing. That’s when I started, I started at 37.
Shelley Christie 25:24
Yeah, I’ve chosen to have boundaries. And certain people aren’t in my life anymore. And that’s, you know, can be sad, but at the same time, it’s good for me. Because they used to make me feel like I was the issue. I actually had somebody say to me, and she was being very honest, and I really respect honesty.
Shelley Christie 25:57
And she actually said, it was after stroke. She said, “you know, a few people think your mental health issues are an issue.” And I, from that day on, I was like, “oh, okay, I can understand that. Yeah, I can see I can, you know, I appreciate that. But, you know, maybe time to move on.”
Bill Gasiamis 26:22
Yeah, it sounds like she was saying that on her own behalf. Not representing other people.
Shelley Christie 26:31
Anyway, moving on, but my kids, yeah, I talked to a girlfriend a lot. And it’s amazing how you find your tribe, through trauma. So I have actually found a really good friend, who has been through a different journey of cancer at the same time, in 2019. But we call it the same, but it’s different. It was a different experience. But it’s the same, we get it. We understand when we speak. The pressure you have of feeling like “oh, what if this is gonna happen again?”
Bill Gasiamis 27:21
Yep, absolutely.
Shelley Christie 27:24
what I’m saying like when my kids on their morning of the PFOA. And on the anniversary every year, you know, I think about on the way to the hospital, I text three people, three friends, who I loved dearly, and I send the same message. And I said, “Hey, just on my way to get this heart fixed. Do you think if something happens, can you help Craig raise the girls?” And honestly, I didn’t know if I was going to come home that day. And I know that people think “oh, dramatic, dramatic”. But it’s not, it’s really tough.
Bill Gasiamis 28:11
Absolutely. It’s not dramatic. I did that, I had to go into brain surgery. So a week before that, we had buried my mother-in-law.
Facing The Mortality After A Brain Stem Stroke
Bill Gasiamis 28:22
And I was getting into brain surgery. So death was possible. And all sorts of other dramas were possible. We didn’t know what they were, I pretended like it wasn’t gonna be a thing. Like everything was going to be fine, catch you on the other side. But I didn’t really truly feel 100% confident in that outcome. I made good with as many people as I could before I went into surgery, because I knew that I may not have an opportunity to do it again.
Bill Gasiamis 28:52
And my kids, explaining that to them and then pretending being you know, the Aussie blokes that they are pretending that everything was okay. And yes, she’ll be right that soon or so, you know, I read through that I saw right through that. But they did what they could do, the best they could do to feel like that was supporting me. And the people that I’ve spoken to, you know, I call the podcast, the recovery after stroke podcast.
Bill Gasiamis 29:20
But if you just remove stroke, and replace it with any condition, heart, cancer, whatever, child loss, we’re all recovering from something, the only reason why I call it recovery after stroke is because that’s the people who relate to me, specifically had a stroke and vice versa and I write to them, so it works. It’s niched, but trauma is trauma, regardless of how it comes when we learn that we are mortal. Then she gets real, and that’s what happened to me.
Bill Gasiamis 29:54
I had three blades, so it was fair enough that I had the whole “will happen again” routine come up, and I had to get really good at paying attention to my body and taking action. And instead of being feeling like I had no control in the matter, I started my personal development, you know, I say course.
Bill Gasiamis 30:19
My personal development started and then I became responsible for everything that I could control in that journey. And if it ended badly, well, I did the best I could. And hopefully, I’m a good example for how you need to tackle these things. And maybe people will learn from my example. And I would have left like a great legacy, so to speak. But there was no way to sugarcoat it. It was the first time in 37 years where I actually realized that “hang on a sec, we’re not here forever.” And it could happen anytime, you know.
Bill Gasiamis 31:04
So. Yeah, it’s tough. So you’re early on, and I’m 10 years out all up, right. So I’ve done a lot of these conversations. And I think I’ve kind of settled the trauma a lot, because by speaking about it so much, it’s become a bit of a memory. Rather than, I’m not reliving all those experiences, they’re kind of like in the past, do you feel that your anniversary is making you relive certain things,
Intro 31:37
If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. Like, how long will it take to recover? Will I actually recover? What things should I avoid? In case I make matters worse, and doctors will explain things that obviously, you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask. If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery.
Intro 32:07
If you’re finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you it’s called seven questions to ask your doctor about your stroke. These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition, they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery, head to the website now, recovery after stroke.com and download the guide. It’s free.
Shelley Christie 32:41
Absolutely, because I don’t think that I’ve really looked at it and dealt with it in a way that I can look at it as each anniversary comes on as a full celebration. Because I am very grateful for my husband and my daughters for getting and helping me get to the hospital very quickly. Because if they didn’t, it could have been a different story. So I think about all that, but when it comes to the anniversaries because it’s always Mother’s Day. Right? So the on a Saturday and the Sunday was Mother’s Day.
Shelley Christie 33:28
So it’s always you know, and it’s in the in the kids don’t know what to do, husband doesn’t know want to do, you know, do we celebrate? Do we not celebrate? But as time goes on, it changes. And I just need to learn to accept the changes that have happened with me physically and mentally.
Shelley Christie 33:53
I think as time goes on. I don’t want to forget it because I think you need to have it there to appreciate the growth because I have done a lot of growth. And, you know, in some of it was well needed. And I think that as time goes on, I just get more proud of what I have achieved. Because three months after that. Much to my husband’s dismay, I called him one day and I said, Oh, by the way, I’ve just registered for soccer.
Shelley Christie 34:43
He goes pardon? I go Yeah, I did the soccer moms program. And he’s like, really? I’m like yeah and I went and I learned that I couldn’t run backwards. I learned all this stuff that I could and couldn’t do anymore. And that’s confronting. So as the anniversaries come along, I kind of go, Ah, yeah, look how far I’ve come.
Bill Gasiamis 35:16
I can’t play soccer anymore. I can’t run the way I used to. And soccer was not something that I did all the time. But it was lovely to kick a ball on the ground and just push it along and whatever. But that’s not possible. So I’ve taken up riding an electric bike and like an e-bike.
Bill Gasiamis 35:37
And that’s really, really amazing. Because that gives me that sense of adventure and freedom that I used to experience. And it doesn’t make my left leg go tired, because it has mechanical, motorized support with pedaling at the beginning. And it supports you until 25 kilometers an hour. So you’re hardly breaking up a sweat, you know, when you’re pedaling.
Connecting More

Shelley Christie 35:58
But you’re still out there. And I think that’s the key for survivors is that, you know, if you’ve had the mental health support, I think that’s a big key to getting over that barrier of the change that’s happened. And, you know, the losses that you’ve had, it can be friendships, family, it can be, your cognitive, it can be, you’re still grieving for the change in yourself.
Shelley Christie 36:38
But then when you have the support that when you notice all that kind of stuff, there’s so much more out there that you can do. And I think if us survivors, that we talk about it more it’s really important, because I haven’t really talked about it until now.
Shelley Christie 36:59
I think it’s you know, the journey for me, I think I’m starting to connect because I disconnected from the stroke community. Because I often got told, you’ve recovered so well look at you, you know, know, so I just started telling myself, even though I’ve had a stroke. I’ll just leave that there. And I don’t want to talk about it. Who wants to talk about it?
Bill Gasiamis 37:35
Yeah, I don’t think a lot of people want to talk about it. To be honest. So you know what I do, I choose the people that I can talk about it. So last Friday, I had to catch up with a guy called Antonio. And Antonio was a guest on my podcast. He’s a Melburnian. And he was a guest on my podcast really early on. And he was overseas when he had his stroke in, I think, Thailand or something like that.
Bill Gasiamis 38:03
I’m just checking to see what episode he was on. So people who want to listen to it can Oh, he was on episode 29. And he had a brainstem stroke as well. And we catch up once a year or over COVID. We didn’t, but we catch up once a year. So we went and had a catch up. And we talked about stuff and some stroke stuff related to other passions that that we have.
Bill Gasiamis 38:26
So he was a musician, he used to play guitar, he can’t play anymore. So now he’s swapped to one handed piano. And then yeah, he’s become a music producer. He produces his own stuff and some other people’s stuff. So you know, he’s keeping active, he’s about 10 years out as well, if not a bit more.
Bill Gasiamis 38:46
So things do kind of change and settle down. But he still experiences fatigue, and it still has a left side, I think rightside deficits. So he walks with a limp and his arm doesn’t work 100%. But we we go about, we go about sort of becoming normal, whatever that means.
Bill Gasiamis 39:09
And then applying that to what we live with, which is all of the aftermath of our strokes. So he’s done that. So we got together for an hour, which we spoke about fatigue, stroke, all that kind of stuff. And then we spoke about what we love. So it kind of works.
Bill Gasiamis 39:30
But when I meet with other people who are not like Antonio or yourself, we speak about other stuff that are not stroke related, because they don’t know how to interact with that part of the conversation. And they haven’t got an experience yet. So thankfully, we don’t. They can’t relate. And so that’s really good. But it is those really cool people who I discovered after my strokes as well, who were the ones that came out of nowhere who surprised me.
Shelley Christie 39:30
I had it couple of those. Whoah didn’t expect that. Didn’t expect you to come back into my life or come into my life. Love it. But yeah, it’s a fascinating journey on what happens with who, what, when, wow people handle it, some don’t handle it very well at all. And that’s okay because it is confronting. But it is a really interesting journey to go on.
Stroke Is The Best Thing That Ever Happened To Me
Bill Gasiamis 40:47
Yeah, I’ve got to the point where I’m writing a book that’s called Stroke Is The Best Thing That Ever Happened To Me. And I know that is not for everybody, I get it. And this is not about, I had a fantastic time having a stroke, it’s not about that. It’s all about the personal growth that happened. And if you think about, again, I look, all good, you know, look fine. But if you think about the people who have had amazing personal growth from their conditions, just look at the Paralympics.
Bill Gasiamis 41:29
Those guys would never say, Oh yeah I love not being able to walk again, or move my arms or my leg or whatever. But they’re playing basketball wheelchair, and they’re winning gold medals. So there’s no doubt about it, that they would not have been playing basketball wheelchair, if they didn’t have the trauma that caused them to be in that situation. So the trauma is not the part that they would love.
Bill Gasiamis 41:56
But they definitely love the opportunity to receive a gold medal at an Olympics as a result of the fact that they’ve chosen to turn a shit situation into the most positive situation they can and it paid off in massive dividends paid off, because they got to travel the globe, represent the country, meet people that are like minded and going through similar things.
Bill Gasiamis 42:21
Perform at the highest level in their sport, in their field. So it’s like, okay, I don’t think I would give it back I’d love to have these learnings without the trauma. But I don’t think it’s possible for me personally, to have this kind of learning. Without that kind of trauma. I wasn’t, I wasn’t that wise.
Shelley Christie 42:47
And I’m the same. If it didn’t happen to me. I wouldn’t have learned a lot about myself, or others around me as well as going through the growth. You know, I’m not perfect, nobody is. I certainly have, you know, pissed people off in the past. And because I’m very honest. A bit too honest, sometimes.
Bill Gasiamis 43:17
Brutally honest?
Shelley Christie 43:18
Sometimes, through the growth I’ve changed. And I even have to the way I think because how my brain works now, because I could be in mid-sentence and I could be like, what was that? You know, so they’re the kind of things that I am very grateful for, even though I had the stroke, because you’re right, you can’t have something like that happen and not learn from it and change and you got to accept the change that comes.
Shelley Christie 43:58
Because I don’t if you don’t, I think that’s when you really struggle mentally. I mean, I know in the last couple of months that I have been so busy that I can feel the fatigue it’s coming, it’s gonna hit me like a truck. I can feel it, husband’s going away a lot, kids got sport, I’m doing soccer.
Shelley Christie 44:35
I’m now working for Football Victoria which I’m really happy about. Yeah, go into schools and coach we’re trying to do the participation for schools. But that hasn’t come with you know, some days are hard, but that kind of growth and I don’t I think I’d be here, doing all this stuff. If I didn’t choose to, like, go with the change that came from the trauma and you learn from it?
Bill Gasiamis 45:15
Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, I wouldn’t have been doing the podcasts or any of the stuff that I’ve done that’s related to stroke, I wouldn’t be writing a book. I had no idea what a book be about, or how to string one together? Or who helps for that.
Bill Gasiamis 45:31
Like, it’s just completely different. It’s just a different version of me that I really love. And I kind of get a little bit well, you know, I’ll use the word jealous, for lack of a better word, I get a little bit jealous that there’s other people that have written books already.
Bill Gasiamis 45:47
And for them, maybe it’s been easier, or they got paid to write a book or all this stuff. It’s like, okay, well, I’m just gonna bloody write one. And I don’t know whether anyone’s ever gonna pay me to write one or not, but maybe they’ll pay me to read one. And that’s all right. But that’s been so hard. That’s, been one of the hardest things I’ve ever had to do is write a book. Because I’ve started in lockdown, one of our mini lock-downs, I don’t know which one. And it’s been more than a year now. And I’m up to Chapter 7 of 10.
Bill Gasiamis 46:25
And it’s so hard to focus and concentrate and get the words out of my mind and put them onto a page. And it’s on my book coach, she’s been coaxing me along and managing me and all that kind of stuff. And she reached out two weeks ago. So we can have a catch up on Zoom, because we have a monthly catch up. And I didn’t even email her back for two weeks.
Bill Gasiamis 46:50
Because I had so much trauma and fatigue and trouble getting back to people about stuff. This is that phase that I was going through. And I just said, I just said to her an email yesterday, because she sent me another one going, hello, hello, where are you? And I said, Look, been really fatigued, whatever, struggling at the moment.
Bill Gasiamis 47:11
But I made an appointment for two weeks time to catch up with her. So it’s really rewarding. And it’s going to be great when I’ve done it. And I’ve had this idea in my mind that I’m going to write another one. But I don’t think I’ve got it in me to write another one.
Shelley Christie 47:30
I hear a lot of you only live once, like, yeah, you gotta live your life. And it’s true, it is true. But sometimes, you know, if you want to do it, you just got to do it. If you want to do your second book, you’ll do it. I wish I could read a book, that’s one thing I can’t do anymore I really struggle. I you know, because I’m so tired. And generally you hop in bed at night. You’re reading a book, right? I can probably only do one to two pages. And that’s about it.
Bill Gasiamis 48:12
I’m still that way. I was the same. If I don’t read in the morning. There’s no way I’m reading at night. No chance.
Shelley Christie 48:19
Yeah. And I do really miss that.
Bill Gasiamis 48:23
Audiobooks. Have you jumped on to the audiobooks?
Shelley Christie 48:27
I have done a couple but I fall asleep so quickly.
Bill Gasiamis 48:36
I listen to them when I’m doing long drives. And yeah, I get a topic like, you know, at the moment, I’m listening to The Socratic Dialogues. Yeah, exactly. It’s a conversation that was had 2000, or two and a half thousand years ago, by the Greek philosopher Socrates.
Bill Gasiamis 49:05
He’s talking to another person about the way that thing that they interpret things and what do things really mean. And they go into these really deep levels of Yeah, but if this, and it’s ethics, it’s about ethics, right? So if this is that, well, then what about that, and they keep going, and it’s a really awesome conversation to listen to, that I could never concentrate enough to read.
It’s About Deep Thinking
Bill Gasiamis 49:28
And that’s the reason why I’m listening to such crazy titles, because I could never read them. Whereas now I can listen to it. And I get the gist of what the books about and how I can apply that to my life it’s because it’s deep thinking. Not just making a judgement about something at the base level and then leaving it at that and then sticking with that no, but investigate deeper and deeper.
Bill Gasiamis 49:59
And that’s What I think a personal development has been for me I’ve learned that I identify as this guy who has a need to say things. All right, I have, I’ve always had a need to express myself, but I haven’t allowed myself to I have put it back because I was afraid of criticism, I was afraid of being told I’m wrong, or you can’t say that, or this or that, or whatever.
Bill Gasiamis 50:25
Whereas now, I’m on a podcast. So I’ve gone from having a voice and not expressing it to having a voice and expressing it. And now how I’m expressing is what I’m interested in is how deeply am I going to go into some of those conversations, and we’re going to have him just at a face level, don’t want to hear from my, my guests like you and say, What happened to you, I had a stroke.
Bill Gasiamis 50:47
Alright, what else this happened that happened, that’s a pretty boring, well, let’s go deeper into the emotional into the psychological, you know, into the physical, and see how that conversation has way more layers to it than just what happened at the surface.
Bill Gasiamis 51:05
And that’s how I run my life with other people, I very rarely talk to people about the football. World, great weekend football, you know, and that player, this and that player that I’m not interested in that kind of talk for too long. I love deep, meaningful conversations with the people that I hanging out with.
Shelley Christie 51:25
Open person. And you know, I’m very much like that. And I think that can be sometimes perceived at all actually quite confronting for some, because, you know, sometimes when you’re an open person, and you’re honest, you can actually trigger the other person without you even realizing that you’re triggering them.
Bill Gasiamis 51:52
Especially when they say how are you? And you tell them I’m shit today.
Shelley Christie 51:57
Oh, God. I’m really tired. And then you sort of sometimes, I think, I God why did I say that, you know, they’re just gonna think I’m so whinging all the time. I’m just so dramatic, or I’m lying, but it’s not the case at all. It’s just, you know, the truth. And, you know, I think more people who talk about stroke survivors and because everyone’s different, and experience things differently, have different support levels.
Shelley Christie 52:00
You know, I think the more we talk about the mental health side of it, and you know, things like enable me from Stroke Foundation and all that kind of stuff, like, I think, see, I haven’t engaged in that very much. I still don’t know why I can’t answer that question to myself. Like, I reach and then I pull back. Then I reach out and then I pull back. Like I’m really surprised that I’m on this today. But I think I’m ready to have a voice help others.
Bill Gasiamis 53:13
What’s surprising about it? What makes you think you might not have made it here?
Shelley Christie 53:20
I’m because since the stroke and the heart surgery, I’ve kind of got the feeling that nobody really wanted to talk about it. A couple of people have, but that’s my interpretation. Oh, here we go again or we don’t you know, don’t want to hear that.
Bill Gasiamis 53:43
You do have to choose your audience. I don’t speak about it to everybody. And some people I avoid speaking about it the downers, I try and avoid them. And the people who have heard about it the most, my wife and my family and my kids, so I don’t do them the stroke thing forever, and I don’t do that to them.
My Mum’s A Hemochromatosis And Stroke Survivor

Shelley Christie 54:14
In fact, oh, you know, I was talking about my youngest. You know, she does, I can see it in her she does stuff up, I’m gonna try not cry with this one. They just recently had to do a presentation on somebody they admire and it could have been a sports person, a movie star, could have been anybody they wanted and she did me I’m like looking at it. I’m like, what? And her first line was my mum’s a stroke survivor, and she plays soccer.
Bill Gasiamis 54:56
Deep thinker that one.
Shelley Christie 54:58
Oh, she’s very much like me. And I was like, really? You don’t want to do anybody else? She’s like, no. I go but why? She goes because she just kept going mum. Because of what you’re doing. So that was a couple of weeks ago. I think that was a trigger for me. Okay. If my 11 year old can see that I’m doing really well, I shouldn’t speak more about it and help others.
Bill Gasiamis 55:38
Yeah, you should speak about it in the context that you’re overcoming, you’re moving on regardless, you’re learning, you’re having a growth, you know, in that context here, if, if we’re, if the conversation is all, which it needs to be still, you still need to be honest and say, I am struggling today, or I can’t deal with this or whatever.
Bill Gasiamis 56:02
And then, but I’m learning I’m trying I am I’m listening to my body, etc, then it’s a better thing, because you’re giving an example of how to deal with the highs and lows, and how to overcome it. If I was just going to my wife and saying I can’t feel my leg all day, every day. Why can’t I feel my leg?
Bill Gasiamis 56:23
She’s gonna eventually gonna get sick of it, but I can’t feel my leg all the time. And it’s like, Well, okay, whatever. I can’t feel it anymore. I just keep going. I feel it in a weird way that’s different from my other side. But I still feel it. So I’m like, I still feel it. Okay. It’s all good. No worries. I reckon what I did is I took my kids to therapy with me. And my wife, everybody went to counseling with me. And we addressed the elephant in the room.
Shelley Christie 56:54
We haven’t done that all together. The kids go, I went. Husband no.
Bill Gasiamis 57:06
It doesn’t surprise me.
Shelley Christie 57:08
He was bought up on a farm.
Bill Gasiamis 57:11
He might cry in front of everybody doesn’t want anyone to watch him cry?
Shelley Christie 57:18
Not well received sometimes, he’s been my biggest supporter. He should be really proud of himself, because he didn’t get a lot of support from his mates. In fact, he got stuff all to be honest. There was one maybe or two that didn’t really so he kind of just went to it himself for a bit there. My auntie and uncle were great. You know, but they don’t live near us. But yeah, I think that’s a really good idea that, people should as a family talk about it.
Bill Gasiamis 58:00
Yeah. I sucked them in at the beginning. I said, come for a drive with me, you know, I’m gonna go see my friend, my friend, Patricia. And, and then it should be like, hey everyone, I gave them a bit more information than that, you know. But, yeah, I made it as low key as possible so that I wouldn’t make a big deal out of it. And then we just turned up, and they were asked to stay outside initially.
Bill Gasiamis 58:30
Can you guys just hang out for a little bit in the waiting room, whatever. And then it was like, can you come in here for a second I wanna ask you something? And it was kind of done like that. So we had a really cool way of making a part of conversation and addressing it informally, even though we were in a formal place.
Bill Gasiamis 58:55
And what I did with my wife was like, I’d like you to be there. So I can say a few things to you under supervision. And it was more about me, not her saying things to me. But then my counselor was definitely going after her for a little bit, you know.
Bill Gasiamis 59:15
So we got a lot out of that, that really made a big difference. And as a result, when my kids became teenagers, they would say, can I go and see the counselor on my own. And I was like, I was thrilled because that meant that now they had a tool that I never had growing up, which was when things are feeling tough, or you don’t know a way out or something, go go get counseling and go get a support.
The Importance of Mental Health
Shelley Christie 59:42
Absolutely and, you know, I and I’ll keep going back to it time and time again, you know, the mental health is a key part of recovery. A huge part, you know, If you don’t look after that, you’re just not gonna recover.
Bill Gasiamis 1:00:05
It’s 1/3 of the recovery. I mean, emotional is a third, physical is a third and psychological is a third. And without one of those, you’re really doing yourself a disservice. Mental, mental health, and count and counseling for your mental health is supporting the emotional health.
Bill Gasiamis 1:00:26
So that’s a real good loop that occurs, then you can do other emotional intelligence courses and discover things about your heart, etc, that help you to advance your mental health, you know, there’s a loop there. And of course, physical health feeds into both of those, and they all feed into physical health.
Bill Gasiamis 1:00:43
So it’s really important, because they all become they’re all interconnected, you know, it’s the holistic approach when you’re handling all of them. And I think at any at the emotional stage, you’re also dealing with spiritual, so if you if people are listening and not relating, but then they understand spiritual recovery, whether that’s religion, or whether that’s something else.
Bill Gasiamis 1:01:08
That’s done at the emotional stage, that’s kind of where that sits, sits in your heart, you know, it’s not something that you do in your head. But getting your thoughts rearranged and sorted out into a direction that’s supporting your life going forward, is much better than having muddled up and being continuing going down a path that you’re not happy with, that you’ve never been happy with, that has got you negativity and difficulties in life. So you can adjust that you just have to relearn a new way to go about things that are supportive.
Shelley Christie 1:01:49
And that’s, like I just said, before, you know, last couple of months, I’m really starting to, because I’ve been so busy. So the focus on keeping well, and, you know, fuel your body, right, and all that kind of stuff. And getting some good sleep. However, we do have a 13 week old puppy. So I’m not getting website. But, you know, doing all that kind of stuff is, you know, really, really important.
Shelley Christie 1:02:22
And that’s what my girls are learning through going through counseling. Yeah, and yeah, so they, their tools are there, mindfulness tools are really good. You know, I wish I had that kid. But, you know, however, I haven’t now, so that’s okay. But that’s, if I can say to anybody, if anyone’s who wants to listen to this, you know, as a survivor, if you get on top of the mental, you can, you know, the physical stuff with rehab and everything. You can just keep going.
Bill Gasiamis 1:03:01
Yeah, the mindfulness is a really good one. I think mindfulness has become this thing. You know, that’s just really marketed really well, and people do. But what just in case people don’t understand what mindfulness does, what it does, for me how I use it is it keeps me in the today in the now in this moment so with you, rather than thinking about the past, that the past.
Bill Gasiamis 1:03:24
And therefore the past being dredging up the traumas and all that stuff. Right now I’m enjoying the moment. When I need to deal with the past, I’ll be in counseling. And while I am not going to counseling, I’m making note of the things I need to be aware of from my past, so I can speak in counseling about it so I can heal the trauma.
Bill Gasiamis 1:03:47
Now going forward, where I’m worried about the future, that’s anxiety that’s worried about something that hasn’t happened yet. And it’s robbing my life from being enjoined from having enjoyment in this moment right now with you and having a lovely conversation. So, again, when I come up with something that I might worry about in the future, that is that I don’t have proof for even though I have a previous example of it, I’m not necessarily, there’s no real proof that it will happen again.
Bill Gasiamis 1:04:18
I make a note of that again, and I stop worrying about it for this moment. And I’m going to take that into counseling, and I’m going to talk about it in counseling. So mindfulness is going on right here right now. I’m safe. I’ve got a roof over my head, everything’s okay. And there’s no need to think about the past or worry about the future right now. I’ll do this right now. So the writing it down and the using it as kind of discussion points automatically takes it out of your head.
Shelley Christie 1:04:53
Yes. That’s so true. I had to do that yesterday. I had a journal for a while and I’m was actually coming back from working down at Phillip Island and I was coming back and I listened to one of your podcasts. I couldn’t remember the lady’s name. It was just a recent one.
Shelley Christie 1:05:09
And she was speaking about her stroke and the PFO closure. And she was talking about how she felt. Having the surgery and after, because you asked her, you know, is there any side effects from the PFO. And while I was driving listening to this, I got triggered.
Shelley Christie 1:05:33
Because it brought back the heart surgery. So because I had the heart surgery, 17 days after the stroke. So I you know, and here’s the thing, this is, you know, all the mindfulness that you can do. And yesterday I had to, I’m driving along and I’m like, I’m feeling really hot.
Shelley Christie 1:05:57
I could feel because she was describing how it happens. And I’m like, yep. So you know, after heart surgery, you have to lie down six to eight hours, straight, you can’t move, basically. And when I stood up, they got me up. All the blood come out. Because I’ve had so many blood thinners. And I was just, it was all just everywhere. And I thought about that.
Shelley Christie 1:06:29
And then I thought about the feeling in my heart days after that. Like I could feel it. In fact, I had a heart monitor on two weeks ago, because I’m still having fast heartbeats. In fact, some nights it wakes me up, like up somebody’s gonna paddle. You know, they’re the things, you know that you’ve mindfulness if you learn the tools, it can help you take deep breaths and go. Yes, that happened. I’ll think about it. But yeah, that happened yesterday? Like, oh, I actually didn’t think that would happen again. But it did.
Memory Triggers
Bill Gasiamis 1:07:10
Yeah, I don’t realize how triggering some of these episodes could be for people. Because I don’t often get triggered by anything anymore. That’s related to this, because I’ve done a lot of work. And I do from time to time have a cry on a pot on the podcast and all that.
Bill Gasiamis 1:07:27
So yeah, it is amazing how much other people’s stories you can relate to, because you listen to it, and it’s your exact symptoms or situation or whatever. And then that just shows that that’s where the work is that you need to do. That’s absolutely exactly that trigger is where the work is. Because if you’re not being triggered, then that’s kind of been an experience you’ve had, and it’s, you’ve resolved that with yourself somehow. But when it is a trigger, that means that it’s unresolved and it needs to be dealt with somehow.
Shelley Christie 1:08:05
And I think, you know, some people think that triggers are negative, but I think as time goes on, I think they’re positives because you have to learn to deal with that trigger. Otherwise, you can’t, you can’t move on sometimes.
Bill Gasiamis 1:08:25
Yeah, there are positive from the perspective that they’re information and you need to absolutely take that information and do something with it in a positive direction. But if you’re being triggered by everything, and you’re expecting other people to change around you, because, you know, you’re, you’re too sensitive. Well, you’re getting it wrong, that trigger one, I’ve put a couple of trigger warnings on a few of my episodes, but I don’t like trigger warnings, because how many can I possibly have? And how do I know?
Shelley Christie 1:08:54
You’d probably have a trigger warning for every episode to be honest, like because there’s always going to be somebody listening to it, and they’re gonna get triggered. And they might not even realize, at the time, they might go I don’t know what that meant. But you’re right, you can’t put it on everything.
Bill Gasiamis 1:09:14
And if you get triggered, that’s where the work is. That’s all it’s time for you to step up, grow up become an adult and discover how to get through it and overcome it. I mean, I get triggered by lots of things as well but they’re not as effective in debilitating me and making me a smaller version of myself anymore. They’re not they don’t do that anymore.
Bill Gasiamis 1:09:35
They just remind that okay, more work needs to be done here you know, and I address that some way shape or form whether I read about it or whether I go to counseling about it or whether I YouTube about it, you know, something like that. It they will help because I like to get curious about why I’m being triggered.
Bill Gasiamis 1:09:54
So what is it? Is it this is a days or whatever, once I understand it and then I can address it in the context of well, the trigger is related to this, this and that. And I no longer need to be triggered by being teased because I’m not a child anymore.
Bill Gasiamis 1:10:14
And teasing doesn’t really mean anything. And that was relevant when I was seven or eight. And it’s not relevant now. So I don’t really mind what people call me. It’s their problem, not mine. So that’s a really kind of basic example. But that no longer triggers me that was relevant. In 1985, it’s not relevant anymore.
Shelley Christie 1:10:38
Yeah, absolutely. I got given a pack after, when we left the hospital. Margaret, who was an amazing story coordinator, she was fantastic. She gave us a pack, which had lots of information on it. And I still have that pack, sitting in the same spot.
Shelley Christie 1:11:07
And every now and then, I go and read a couple of things. Just to remind myself, you know, if I feel a little bit anxious or memories are coming back for me that I’m not liking. So I’ll go back, and I’ll read something, and then I’ll go on, if something happens, I just need to do that. And that’s how I deal with that. Sometimes, nobody knows that. Everyone knows it now. Not even my husband knows that.
Bill Gasiamis 1:11:47
I get it. You’ve got a process in place, you’ve got something that empowers you, instead of feeling like you’re always at the whim of this thing whatever it is. Now, you’ve actually got a bit of control that you’ve taken back. And it allows you to calm the nervous system and breathe. And go, Okay, no, I have got a plan for that. Yeah, that’s alright.
Shelley Christie 1:12:15
I wish there were lots of Margaret’s around who I had at Frankston hospital, she was amazing. And I really wish that everybody who gets discharged, gets given the information that I got given. And even just her her presence. Because she explained things really well. And she said, And I’ll never forget it, she actually sat me down. And she said, this is going to be really tough for you, once you walk out this door.
Shelley Christie 1:13:05
And I said, okay, and she goes, No, this is going to be really tough for you, but it will be okay if you use the tools. If she hadn’t said that to me. I don’t think I think I would have walked out there going, oh, I’m looking good. Got my left side back. Happy days. Because I always had it in the back of my mind. This is gonna be tough. Because she said it. But if she’s had if she hadn’t said that, I would have been worse.
Bill Gasiamis 1:13:49
Yeah, your expectations don’t get met. And then it’s all going through it again. I thought by now this and I thought by now that and none of this has come and what does that mean?
Shelley Christie 1:14:02
She actually also said your relationships are going to struggle. You’re gonna struggle. Your kids are going to struggle. She was just so raw and honest. And every year I send a box of chocolates to the ward. I don’t even know if she’s still there and she gets them. But I still send them because it makes me feel good. And hopefully if she’s still there, she feels good, and the nurses. I think if we had all a lot of Margaret’s I think it would be better for the survivors.
Compassion Goes A Long Way
Bill Gasiamis 1:14:51
They’re rare breed the Margarets. They definitely are. I know what you mean the compassion that some people show is just so good. It’s next level, and it catches you by surprise. And then it really impacts you and makes you remember it, allows you to remember that I know that I had a nurse who was just being a nurse.
Bill Gasiamis 1:15:16
But in the middle of the night when my temperature was through the roof, you know, he was stripping me off, and he was covering my body with ice, you know, like, completely frantic, to make sure that my body temperature was coming down, this is after the surgery.
Bill Gasiamis 1:15:33
And that day, before that evening, they had taken out the catheter for urine. And in my days, like he said to me, I’m so sorry to have to tell you like his whispering in my ear. We got to put the catheter back in. So I said, whatever, just go for it. They put the catheter back in, and then he called doctors and he had people there.
Bill Gasiamis 1:16:10
And he had requested all these blood and all this stuff. And he never got what he wanted back from the doctors. So the next morning, when I had stabilized, and my neurosurgeon was doing the rounds. He was still on shift, and she was debriefing getting a debrief what happened overnight.
Bill Gasiamis 1:16:32
He was giving you the debrief. And the attending doctor was there as well. And my neurosurgeon said, where are all the blood tests and the results? Can I see it? And the nurse looks at her and goes no I haven’t got them back yet. Like, did you order them? And he goes, yeah, I ordered them from the doctor next to us, you know.
Bill Gasiamis 1:16:56
And my neurosurgeon looks at him and says, where are the blood results that your nurse requested from you? And he came up with some excuse and my neurosurgeon just ripped him another ass hole, she just destroyed him in front of the nurse in front of me and everybody.
Bill Gasiamis 1:17:18
Next time, a highly proficient nurse says to you to order something, because of this reason or that reason, do not delay, make sure you get those results for that person immediately, etc. So that nurse, I just remember how he treated me and I don’t remember his name.
Bill Gasiamis 1:17:39
And I wished that I was able to contact him and say thank you, and let them know, I don’t even know which ward I was in. Like, I have no memory of anything after brain surgery for quite a while. So it’s all a haze. But I just remember feeling really safe, and really cared for by this nurse. So I know what you mean, they’re very rare, and they really make a massive impact on on you.
Shelley Christie 1:18:08
They do. And I think at the time you don’t realize, because you’re in shock. You’re trying to absorb everything that’s just happened. But as time goes on, you start to have those memories and of the people. And it’s really important to have that, that support. And even if it’s just one or two people, like even if you’ve got that, you know, hold on to that.
Shelley Christie 1:18:45
Because there are a lot of people out there that don’t have a lot of support. And like I said at the start, I’m very grateful. But I thought I probably would have had more. But that’s not the case. But the ones I did have and I still do. You know, forever thankful because I’m still not very honest with them about how I actually I just don’t get going. But they probably know they’re probably just like, Oh, she’s just faking it.
Bill Gasiamis 1:19:25
Yeah, they know more than you think.
Shelley Christie 1:19:27
I don’t think I give them good enough credit.
Bill Gasiamis 1:19:33
That’s good. Gratitude really does help with recovery. It’s been proven gratitude helps tremendously with healing and recovery and getting back on track.
Shelley Christie 1:19:45
And I’ve never had that prior to the stroke, when I think about it, I was always like, why does this always happen? But now it’s is different.
Bill Gasiamis 1:20:01
Yeah, I love it. I love the amount that you’ve grown. And the conversation that we’ve had. It’s been really deep. You know, that’s really Socratic conversation that we’re having here. How d’you like that? How good am I? You know what I love? I love that picture of Madonna in your background.
Shelley Christie 1:20:19
Oh, it’s not Madonna.
Bill Gasiamis 1:20:20
Oh my god. Yes, it is.
Shelley Christie 1:20:23
I don’t know who it is.
Bill Gasiamis 1:20:25
That’s Madonna.
Shelley Christie 1:20:29
Actually, when I’m looking in it doesn’t look like her.
Bill Gasiamis 1:20:34
20-year-old Madonna. Okay, well, there it goes. You just learned a little bit more about me and my childhood.
Shelley Christie 1:20:44
Madonna, she was one of my faves.
Bill Gasiamis 1:20:45
Oh my gosh, she’s still one of my faves. I don’t like the way that she’s evolved her face. But other than that.
Shelley Christie 1:20:55
She must like it.
Bill Gasiamis 1:20:56
Yeah, without a doubt, I really appreciate you reaching out and actually then coming to and committing to the next stage, which is being on the podcast and having a chat about it. Thank you so much.
Shelley Christie 1:21:10
No, thanks for having me. I was very nervous. But no it was good chat. And if people listen and listen to them all, like I’ve just started listening to a lot of them I’m gonna actually go and listen to Antonio’s. Because you have a lot. What are you up to? 200? And what am I?
Bill Gasiamis 1:21:34
You’re gonna be 213 or 214. Antonio’s 27.
Shelley Christie 1:21:39
Yeah, right.
Bill Gasiamis 1:21:41
Yeah, If anyone’s listening or watching and you’re on YouTube, tell me whether or not you think that’s Madonna in the background. If you see what I see. Yeah, just let me know. But thank you so much for being on the podcast. I really appreciate it. All the best with your recovery.
Shelley Christie 1:22:05
Yeah, thank you very much, and to you and to everyone else out there.
Bill Gasiamis 1:22:09
Thanks for joining us on today’s episode. To learn more about my guests including links to their socials and to download a full transcript of the entire interview. Please go to recoveryafterstroke.com/episodes. If you’d like to support this podcast, the best way to do it is to leave a five-star review and a few words about what the show means to you on iTunes, and Spotify.
Bill Gasiamis 1:22:31
And if you’re watching on YouTube, comment below the video. Like this episode, click the notifications bell to get future episodes and subscribe to the show on the platform of your choice. Sharing the show with family and friends on social media will make it possible for people who may need this type of content to find it easier. And that may make a massive difference to someone that is on the road to recovery after their own experience with stroke. Thanks again for being here and listening. I really appreciate you see you on the next episode.
Intro 1:22:59
Importantly, we present many podcast designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast or the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed.
Intro 1:23:17
All content on this website at any length blog or podcast or video material controlled this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis, the content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing.
Intro 1:23:33
It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice the information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances or health objectives. Do not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose treat, cure or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional.
Intro 1:23:54
Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional, your doctor or your rehabilitation program based on our content. If you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition, please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional if you are experiencing a health emergency or think you might be, call 000 if in Australia or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance or go to the nearest hospital emergency department.
Intro 1:24:18
Medical information changes constantly. While we aim to provide current quality information in our content. We did not provide any guarantees and assume no legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, currency or completeness of the content. If you choose to rely on any information within our content, you do so solely at your own risk. We are careful with links we provide however third-party links from our website are followed at your own risk and we are not responsible for any information you find there.
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1 hr 25 min
September 03, 2022 A Bleed On The Brain Recovery – Leigh Cleary
Leigh Cleary was 39 when he attended a music festival with friends but soon after he arrived home he experienced a bleed on the brain.
Instagram
Highlights:
03:18 Introduction
04:42 The Lead-up
08:29 The Cardiac Arrest
13:53 Post-Stroke Deficits
18:51 Overthinking It?
25:02 Dead For 6 minutes
33:28 For Good And Bad
39:28 Getting Back To Work After A Stroke
44:43 All Work And No Play
54:24 The Opportunity To Learn And Grow
1:02:48 Helping Others In Need
1:12:54 Celebrate The Small Wins
Transcription:
Leigh Cleary 0:00
I think if you’re lucky, you’re surrounded by loved ones, most of your loved ones want to talk to you about it. They just don’t know how to bring it out, because they don’t want to hurt your feelings. They don’t want to remind you of that time.
Leigh Cleary 0:13
But I think, listening to what you were saying there, a real moment for me was when I stopped thinking about what it was like to be me before my stroke and after stroke, when I stopped thinking of those people as two different people, I am, what I am and everything that’s happened in between now and being born. It’s just made me who I am for the good and for the bad.
Intro 0:38
This is the recovery after stroke podcast, with Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after stroke.
Bill Gasiamis 0:51
Hello, and welcome to another episode of the recovery after stroke podcast. This is episode 213. And before we get into that, I just wanted to let you know that in August, the podcast reached more downloads than ever before. In fact, it was more than 6300 downloads for the month of August.
Bill Gasiamis 1:14
It is an amazing figure, it is a figure that has taken the best part of seven years to achieve. So I first started this podcast in 2015. And it was intermittent, I wasn’t releasing a lot of episodes, and I wasn’t very good at podcasting, And I wasn’t very consistent.
Bill Gasiamis 1:34
I was still recovering from the stroke and from all the challenges that came after brain surgery. And it wasn’t something that I was doing. As often as I’m doing now, there wasn’t a lot of people that I was able to interview because I didn’t know a lot of people, and a lot of people didn’t know me.
Bill Gasiamis 1:52
So now that I’m at that stage where people have got to know the podcast, and people are contacting me to get onto the podcast so that I can interview them, then it’s been a much easier process for me to release an episode more regularly and get more people coming onto the show that has resulted in consistency, and that has resulted in people from all around the world, finding the podcast and downloading it and listening to it.
Bill Gasiamis 2:20
So this was an amazing thing that I experienced with the podcast, just in the last month. So I’m very excited. And I just wanted to share with you. So now that that’s been said, thank you for listening, and thank you for being here, and for downloading an episode I really appreciate it.
Bill Gasiamis 2:41
If you’re a stroke survivor with a story to share though, and you have an experience with stroke, and you’ve been thinking about reaching out to be a guest on the show but we’re waiting for the right time. This is it. Now, if you go to recoveryafterstroke.com/contact, you’ll find a form that you can fill out to apply to be a guest on the show.
Bill Gasiamis 3:00
As soon as I receive it, I will respond with more details on how you can choose a time that works for you and me for us to meet over zoom and record an interview. So get on and do that. As soon as you get to the end of this episode or pause this episode.
Introduction – A Bleed On The brain

Bill Gasiamis 3:18
Do that and then come back. Now my guest today is Leigh Cleary. He was 39 when he experienced a bleed in the brain after attending a music festival with friends. Leigh Cleary welcome to the podcast.
Leigh Cleary 3:32
Thank you very much for having me, Bill.
Bill Gasiamis 3:34
My pleasure, mate. 13 minutes and 24 seconds to work out all the technical stuff and here we are.
Leigh Cleary 3:39
Yeah, well, that’s pretty good for me, actually to be honest. It could take a lot longer. So we’re doing okay.
Bill Gasiamis 3:47
We are, tell me a little bit about what happened to you man.
Leigh Cleary 3:50
So second of April 2017. In fact, I’ll take you to the day before Bill if I may. So I went to a concert with some friends down in the south of England, which is where I’m originally from, had a really great night out, really good time. I felt l like I was in good form, my friends thought I was in good form.
Leigh Cleary 4:11
On the way home, I felt particularly tired. It was quite a long drive two-and-a-half hours or so. Maybe I’m just a little bit hungover maybe I’ve just kind of overdone it the night before and then I’ve got home. All was pretty standard had some dinner with my wife, my daughter was actually ironically in Southampton where I was it was the school holidays so she goes down spend some time with her grandparents.
The Lead-up To A Bleed On The Brain

Leigh Cleary 4:39
That night got up to go to the loo in the house we lived in right in the countryside. No natural light, got to go for a loo, come out of the bathroom. I genuinely thought we’d been broken into because I felt like somebody had smashed me over the head with a baseball bat or something big, fell over, was on the floor in the hallway between our bathroom and our bedroom.
Leigh Cleary 5:06
My wife obviously heard this big bang, come out and said what’s happened? And I laughed, I’ve fallen over. And my sense of humor tells me that when an adult falls over, it’s generally quite funny. Then she said, Okay, well, let’s get you up. She turned the light on. And I said, you have to turn that off, I’ve got a really bad migraine or something going on.
Leigh Cleary 5:33
Luckily, she kind of said, no, there’s something wrong with you. So my face had all drooped. And I mean, every symptom that you hear about for stroke I had. And then she sat me on the side of the bed she said I need to turn on the lights I just need to look for you.
Leigh Cleary 5:49
I’m going to call the ambulance. I’m a man of no fuss, like most British men I’m kind of quite conservative and quiet, kind of, don’t worry about it, I’ll sleep it off, and I’ll be okay tomorrow I’ll be good. But I knew if I’m honest, I knew all the symptoms. I’ve done enough first aid courses in various jobs that I’ve had over the years.
Leigh Cleary 6:09
I thought I’m having a stroke here. This is what’s happening. And she said to me, it looks like you’re having a stroke, but you can’t be having a stroke. And I was pretty fit. I think the week before I’ve done a 10k run, you know, that can’t be happening to you.
Leigh Cleary 6:24
And I kind of said, You’re right. No, it absolutely can’t be happening to me. And she said, But I’m gonna call the ambulance just in case. And she actually said to me, I think years ago, I said to her worst case scenario, if you call an ambulance, you might look a little bit of a fool. Worst case scenario. But that’s the worst that can happen. Whereas if you don’t call an ambulance, someone could die or whatever.
Leigh Cleary 6:47
So luckily for me, she did they immediately said, we think you’re having a stroke we need to get you to a hospital. We went to Northampton hospital. And I think this was the only time I was scared Bill. We went in, my wife was in bits. And they were talking about they were going to send me to another hospital further away in Oxford.
Leigh Cleary 7:07
And my wife said, Well, I don’t know how I’m gonna get home. Now how will I get home from Oxford? And then the doctor just said right can we all just stop and I remember his exact words. So I’m going to give you a dose of reality. If we don’t get him to Oxford, he will die we haven’t got the facility here to do what we need to do to keep him alive. But if we get him to Oxford, he’s got a 50-50 chance. I’m thinking this is actually really happening isn’t it?
Bill Gasiamis 7:39
They’re bloody telling you mate. Wow, what a nuts situation.
Leigh Cleary 7:44
Yeah, I mean, let’s say day before, out with friends, having a great day, quite a high-powered job at the time was kind of I think I was on call that weekend and all this was going through my head still when they’re telling me I got 50-50 chance of seeing through this if we get into the hospital on time and that still would have been about 45-minute drive away in an ambulance.
Leigh Cleary 8:07
So he’s kind of thinking Oh God, this is pretty bad. So it was the only time I was actually scared and then to be fair, I got into Oxford hospital and they kind of put me at ease that they said you couldn’t be in a better hospital for this you know, we are experts and renowned around the world for neurosurgery and stuff they kind of put me under the next day I woke up.
Cardiac Arrest After A Bleed On The Brain
Leigh Cleary 8:29
But just for good measure Bill, the night after I had a cardiac arrest. So the stroke have been a cardiac arrest the day after everything just give up and they said it was as a result of the stroke the body just kind of shut down so they resuscitated.
Leigh Cleary 8:43
I mean, I don’t remember any of that. People asked me a lot was that scary like my friends would say was that scary having a cardiac arrest? And said I just woke up in a different room. So I remember going to sleep very vividly in this room and there was a couple of old boys opposite of me that I’d had a bit of a conversation with late in the night.
Leigh Cleary 9:05
One in fact George I remember fought in World War Two and have done hand-to-hand combat which I was absolutely flabbergasted by you know, he said you know when you’re beyond enemy lines and had to, I kept pushing him for the answer.
Leigh Cleary 9:22
He said, yes, Leigh I’ve killed people. I was Oh my god, you know, that must have been quite an experience. He said Well, it’s you or them. The next morning I woke up in a different room. And there was a nurse kind of cleaning down a workspace so I woke up I said I think I’ll sleep here.
Leigh Cleary 9:43
And she said you’ve had quite the night and I said have I? She said how’d you feel I said my chest hurts a bit and that’s where they put the jumpstart machine back on me. But yeah, that’s all I remember of that bit and to be honest the next two weeks we’re a bit of a blur.
Leigh Cleary 10:02
When my friends talk to me about it the easiest bit was being in hospital, the hardest bit was coming out. And yeah, it was the bit that I was so hungry to do and get out hospital because it’s just bloody horrible being in a hospital for any reason for any period of time you miss all your comforts.
Leigh Cleary 10:17
And I was so eager to get out. But actually the minute I did, and I remember literally sitting in my car when my wife was driving, obviously, I remember sitting there thinking, I actually got to go home and I’m about to combat the stairs, and that to combat the little steps to get into my house. All these things that you take for granted suddenly become massive challenges, you know? So that was probably the scariest bit was actually coming out hospital.
Bill Gasiamis 10:44
Absolutely, they become challenges. So the concert, was it a long event? Was it more intense than normal? Was it just a regular long drive to a great event? Was there any drinking and substances? Any of that stuff?
Leigh Cleary 11:04
No, no, at the time I worked in Southampton Monday to Friday or Monday to Thursday. It was actually you know, the band Oasis? It was a tribute band for them, me and my friends back in the 90s were well into them it kind of seemed like a weekly or monthly thing to go see them so we went to see this tribute band, it was with two of my oldest friends that we used to go and see all that music together.
Leigh Cleary 11:27
So it’s kind of like a little mini-reunion in an area of Southampton that we always used to go out on a socializing. I had a few beers, no doubt. But it’s funny you say about substances because one of the doctors was convinced that the night before I’d been doing cocaine and because he said it was very common to have either a brain hemorrhage or bleed on the brain. And even my wife was like, because maybe in my youth I had kind of done things like that. Even she was like, if you have been I won’t be mad here and now we just need to get you better. So just tell them if you have.
Bill Gasiamis 11:59
I’ll be mad later.
Leigh Cleary 12:02
Honestly, right up to about a day before I left hospital, this same doctor said to me, you know, I’ll never tell anybody if you have and I said on my life on my daughter’s life, not for years other than anything like that. And you know, that was years ago.
Leigh Cleary 12:21
15, 20 years ago, he said we thought in the immediate lead up to your situation, maybe but no, so it was a boozy night. But no more than the average night out with friends you know, so it was certainly normal for me and my buddies so yeah, very normal week leading up to it a few little stresses at work, but nothing. A lot of friends have quite a big job then was it the stress at work, because I think that can bring on obviously high blood pressure and hypotension and stuff. But no, I’ve never been somebody to feel stressed. My wife would say she’d like it if I could be stressed every now and then, you know?
Leigh Cleary 12:22
So how old were you?
Leigh Cleary 12:57
39.
Bill Gasiamis 12:59
You’re 39 on top of your game, what kind of work we’re you doing?
Leigh Cleary 13:19
So I worked for B&Q which is like a DIY retailer in England, the biggest actually in England and I kind of led up kind of one of the departments there or looked after kind of like kitchens and bathrooms, basically for the retail side of the business. So it’s pretty big job, but I loved it to be honest, at the time, I really loved it. My perspective changed after I kind of got well again. But yeah, at the time, I loved it. I didn’t find it particularly stressful work with a great bunch of people who were super supportive, actually, when all this happened to me.
Post-Stroke Deficits
Bill Gasiamis 13:53
So it’s been a few years. And what did you come home with that you had to recover from? Obviously, the heart issue was probably really taxing on the body, but then a lot of stroke survivors often wake up with some issues.
Leigh Cleary 14:11
So complete paralysis on one side the left side. The hardest, it was tough learning to walk again was really, really tough. And, you know, full credit to anybody that has to go through that, you know, I was young, able to run 10k, runs and stuff like that.
Leigh Cleary 14:32
And I thought, okay, you know, even when in hospital when they said you might have to think about the fact that you’re going to be in a wheelchair. I remember having a bet with the physio because he said to me, Leigh I think the reality is you probably will be walking aids or be in a wheelchair.
Leigh Cleary 14:49
And I said, absolutely will not be doing that. I completely accept that. I might not play football again. We’ll play tennis again, or run 10k again, I can live with that. But I’m not going to be in a wheelchair, they started talking about measuring my house up for ramps and stuff.
Leigh Cleary 15:08
And I said, we’re not doing that. And I literally said to him, if you do that I’m gonna be really mad and unhappy. So, yes, I have that. But the hardest thing I think was the fatigue. I have no energy.
Bill Gasiamis 15:27
You know, that part where you said, I’m not going to have any of that I’m not going to have this in my house that’s not going to be installed? Do you think that that’s got something to do with your recovery in that, because of that you had a better recovery? Or do you think that the recovery was going to go well, anyway, they just didn’t know how well it was gonna go?
Leigh Cleary 15:50
I’m really belligerent person. And I think I’m really kind of, you know, against the odds, I’ll always kind of back myself to prevail. And in any situation, I’m super competitive. So I think that helps. But, you know, I honestly think it’s Lady Luck. It happened to me, you know, it’s terrible it happened to me, it was horrendous at the time, and all those things. But at 39 wherever you’re patient. I mean, I was lucky, I had a quick and good recovery. But I think if you’re patient you can get there. 39 I think your chances obviously are better than if you’re 79 or 89.
Bill Gasiamis 16:30
And also depends on how badly impacted the area of the brain was that has been injured. So some people it’s catastrophically impacted, and then it’s not coming back online. And for other people, it’s kind of I’m not sure if the woods temporarily impacted, or the amount of cell death hasn’t been that dramatic. Yeah, so it comes back online. And a little bit sooner or, better.
Leigh Cleary 16:58
I was very lucky. My wife was amazing. And it’s funny, I don’t talk that much about it now. It’ll crop up from time to time with friends and family and stuff, and everyone says, so my wife’s name is Nikki and they always say, Nikki saved your life, you know, when she called the ambulance. And I said to them well, that is true, but I was very clearly having a stroke.
Leigh Cleary 17:23
You’re not just gonna say crack on and get on with it’s okay. I said, so, I think yeah, it’s absolutely true. But she did what anybody would do. But actually, she saved my life when I came out of hospital. Because when I couldn’t get out of bed, because I was depressed, and I just had no energy and all those things.
Leigh Cleary 17:39
And there was nurses come in because the stroke aftercare, I have to say it was fantastic. In the part of England that it was, you know, absolutely brilliant. She literally made me get out of bed, made me get changed, get some clothes on, you know, have a shower. All those things. So, actually, that was a bigger impact than call the ambulance.
Bill Gasiamis 18:01
Yeah, right. Okay. That is important. A lot of people do struggle, especially after coming home. Because you’re coming home different. And there’s a whole bunch of things that are impacting your ability to be yourself or the previous self, or whatever you identify as before you had the stroke.
Leigh Cleary 18:17
I think mentally I’ve struggled with it for years.
Bill Gasiamis 18:23
So what can’t you do now?
Leigh Cleary 18:27
There’s nothing really nothing that I couldn’t do before. You know, I’ve even managed to have a little game of football here with me and stuff like that. So there’s nothing particularly you know, I feel weaker as a person. So I’ve really struggled with this for a while. And what I mean is, physically, you know, I felt quite fit and strong, and I was walking down an alleyway a while back.
Overthinking It?
Leigh Cleary 18:50
A very safe part of the country. But not like a hotbed for crime. I was walking back to a hotel as a business night out actually going out for a bite to eat with some work colleagues, walked down this alleyway and thought, if somebody attacks me now, my balance isn’t great. I’m going to be in real trouble. Whereas previously, I would have been like, if somebody attacks me, they’ll get a bloody good hiding, you know?
Leigh Cleary 19:15
That for years, I’ve really struggled with that. And my wife had to say to me one day, you know look, when was the last time you got into physical combat with somebody? And I said, I don’t know when I was about 15. She said, Yes, exactly. So for half of your life, you’ve not have to do that. What makes you think suddenly, people are gonna look at you now and go, let’s attack that guy. So yeah, balance was probably the last thing to come back. Being really steady on the feet.
Bill Gasiamis 19:44
I’m laughing. I really relate to that. I relate to that part where you’re not feeling I know your words were weaker. I don’t feel weaker. I just feel vulnerable, more vulnerable.
Leigh Cleary 19:58
Yeah, no, I think that’s probably a good way of putting it
Bill Gasiamis 20:00
You know, and vulnerable, for me also means that because of my mortality because of the fact that I am a mortal now, where before I didn’t ever consider the possibility.
Leigh Cleary 20:16
Your own your own mortality is a hard thing to face.
Bill Gasiamis 20:22
I feel more vulnerable to the elements of life than to just life, the fact that with life comes death. So like that part, makes me feel vulnerable. And then the fact that somebody might jump me well, whatever, that’s a possibility to very rare, but it’s a possibility.
Bill Gasiamis 20:39
But I do feel like I’m less likely to be able to resist an attack if there was kind of like a just a random attack that happened. And then I really get no sense of like self, like I’m able to be self protective, I don’t know what the word is, but feeling like I’m able to kind of look after myself in that sort of situation. I feel like I’d be able to be more easily overcome. And, that’s the weird part. Like, I don’t know whether it’s true or just imaginary or just blokes being, you know, blokes.
Leigh Cleary 21:35
I think is that actually do think is that I think it’s to do with, you know, blokes being blokes, and you know, I’ve always been considered a man’s man and all those things in a bit of a, I wouldn’t say a tough guy, that’d be pushing it too far. But certainly somebody that could look after themselves if the need arose, I think then to suddenly think, wow, I can do that.
Leigh Cleary 22:00
But then the logical side of my wife says, why would you even think that when you’ve never had to do that for such a long time, you’ll your life’s not like being Bruce Willis in Die Hard, that’s not happening to you. Every day, you work in an office, when you go out, you go to nice bars, or restaurants or hotels or whatever, you always stay in, as you say, you always set a nice part of town wherever you stay. You know, I’m not going to get attacked that way. But I guess that your mind does funny things to you. And if you feel like that, there’s not a lot that anybody can say to change that. I think if you feel like that it’s something you’re always going to feel, isn’t it?
Bill Gasiamis 22:37
It sounds like you think of yourself more highly than other people think of you, you think of yourself as a bit of a.
Leigh Cleary 22:48
Definitely more than my wife.
Bill Gasiamis 22:52
I love it. I love it. She knows the real you. You see something different in the mirror and she’s like it. I know the real him.
Leigh Cleary 23:00
But when I look in the mirror, I see Arnold Schwarzenegger like the Terminator.
Bill Gasiamis 23:06
Yeah I hear you. That’s interesting. So how old was the daughter at the time?
Leigh Cleary 23:15
So she’s getting GCSE results next week, so should have been 11. So the impacts on her wasn’t immediate, because we didn’t tell her. Which I’m still not sure is the right thing or wrong thing. But I mean, my friend, my brother, a few people that come to see me in hospital, in that immediate aftermath, just broke down into tears because of how I looked.
Leigh Cleary 23:41
You know, since one of my friends, he was supposed to be here to bloody support me. And you cry like a baby, you know? He’s like, well, I’m not used to seeing you like this. And I thought, well, if this is like a man of the world, that seen, you know, different things have been faced with other people being poorly before what is making little girl in protected from all that kind of thing.
Leigh Cleary 24:01
So we waited and didn’t tell her for a while. She stayed with some relatives for a bit while my wife was doing the traveling to and from hospitals and stuff. So yeah, I think it had a big impact of her. She laughs about it now and jokes about it. Now we sort of joke about, you know, when I was poorly and her friends will say, well, did you have a cold or something?
Leigh Cleary 24:22
And she was like, No, dad died for six minutes. You know, the stroke and cardiac arrest it was really bad, you know? So, I think it had a massive impact on her but I think she’s quite resilient like me, she just bounced through it, I think because I was constantly like, don’t listen to what anybody says, I’m not gonna be in a wheelchair. I’m not gonna do that, I will be back.
Leigh Cleary 24:41
She used to play football at the time, and I’ll be back from the sidelines cheering you on. Fortunately for us, it did turn out like that. I’m saying it was good six months before I was able to do everything but you know, I appreciate how lucky I am because I know there’s people out there that don’t get that same break. That’s for sure.
Dead For 6 minutes
Bill Gasiamis 25:02
So, death for six minutes. Was it just like being asleep? Did you see anyone on the other side?
Leigh Cleary 25:09
I don’t remember anything about it. I mean, you know, I can joke about it now, obviously, because it never quite come to fruition. But I always say that the devil just wasn’t quite ready for me. But now I don’t remember any of it. I literally woke up in a different room.
Leigh Cleary 25:29
Nobody told me and then a consultant speak to me the next day, I almost would have thought someone was lying because I just don’t remember any of it. But apparently, they did the resuscitation on me and then apparently I just bolted up, took this great big intake of air and started snoring. And the consultant who oversaw it all said, one of the nurses said is that normal, he said, if he’s making a noise he’s alive isn’t it? That’s really good. They actually said to me, keep snoring.
Bill Gasiamis 26:05
Wow man, just thinking about it and talking to somebody that’s been to the other side, like, it’s bizarre and intense. And it makes me feel really grateful for modern technology, amongst other things. And it’s, I know, it’s just intense, I just can’t get my head around that even though I haven’t been there, where you’ve been. And I’ve been kind of in another kind of phase of that.
Bill Gasiamis 26:29
It still fascinates me that I’m able to talk to you and you were clinically considered dead for 6 minutes. It’s just intense. And it’s amazing that we’re talking on a podcast about stroke, you’re on the other side of the planet. I’m over here in Australia. And here we are. And there’s never been a better time to be unwell to have a stroke. Not that I want anyone to be unwell or have a stroke. But if there was a time in history, this is it. You know, this is the time.
Leigh Cleary 27:01
I think COVID has helped, you know, Bill, because we’re used to doing this sort of thing more now. I think, if you just said to me in the immediate aftermath, you know, would you go and talk to this chap in Australia, about having a stroke, I said absolutely not. I’m not gonna talk on a screen to somebody over the other side of the world, you know, just wouldn’t have the time. But I think now that this, you know, for work for a lot of people for communicating to family is the new normal, I think you’re right, from a support point of view, there’s not a better time to have, I guess, any kind of illness because you’ve got that support at the touch of a button.
Bill Gasiamis 27:40
Yeah, it’s absolutely amazing. So you connected to me, because you’re an Instagram, and you’re following my Instagram page, the @recoveryafterstroke page. And I put a call out for people to come on onto the podcast, see who was interested in, I got overwhelmed. I’ve got episodes booked in every Friday and Saturdays Australian time, for months.
Bill Gasiamis 28:05
And it’s good and bad. It’s not bad, because I don’t want to do it, it’s bad, because people are waiting a long time to get on. What made you feel like you needed to get on and share your story? Because you haven’t done this before. In this type of format.
Leigh Cleary 28:21
I did a little bit of volunteering a while back for the local Stroke Association. And that was very similar to this peer-on-peer kind of talking and counseling. And I found that really rewarding. Talking to kind of, especially people of similar age that were going through that kind of immediate aftermath and being able to say, you know, what, to feel the way you’re feeling, you know, we were talking about being feeling really vulnerable.
Leigh Cleary 28:48
I was talking to another chap, maybe similar sort of age to me early 40s. And he just said, you know, I just feel like I can’t, I won’t go into his personal details, but he said there are certain things that he can’t do now that he used to be able to do and I just said that’s gonna be normal.
Leigh Cleary 29:05
If half of your body is feeling temporarily redundant, then you’re just not going to be able to do what you used to do. So it’s completely normal to have that to feel a little less than you maybe did, but it will come back in time if you work it, I guess. Or I guess you get used to a new you new version of you.
Bill Gasiamis 29:24
Yeah. Did part of the talking about it in your volunteering role. Help make the memory less triggering less anxious, anxiety-provoking, because there is a real reason to talk about what you’ve been through for lots of people for lots of different things, right.
Bill Gasiamis 29:47
And it’s part of a process called exposure therapy. You talk about it, the more you talk about it, the more it becomes something that you’re talking about, rather than something that you’re reliving. Did you find that talking about it helps do that kind of put it in the past where it belongs as an event, rather than something that’s happening?
Leigh Cleary 30:08
You know what I’m talking about it now I feel like I’m telling the story about something that happened to somebody else. It doesn’t feel like it happened to me. I mean, I’m not stupid. I know it did. Absolutely, it did. But it feels so I guess detached now from who I am. To get there I shaped me into being who I am.
Leigh Cleary 30:29
But I feel so detached from it happening that I can talk about it. And I think you’re right, like it is good therapy. I think it does certainly makes me realize how lucky I am when I talk to people, you know, but for the grace of God, as they say, you know, it could have gone the other way.
Leigh Cleary 30:43
And, you know, wouldn’t be here now. So yeah, I think it’s really good therapy. And I think it’s nice to be able to empathize with others that are going through a tough time, as well, I think that makes you feel, you doing what you’re doing talking to all these different people that are in different stages of their recovery must be quite rewarding to know that you’re helping because I can tell you now, you know, I’m really grateful for the chance to talk to you today it’s helping me so shows how it must be helping other people as well.
Bill Gasiamis 31:13
Yeah, I never expected it, believe it or not. I mean, I know it’s obvious, but I never expect that it was about me this podcast at the beginning. And then as I started to talk about it more and more, I started to feel like you I started to seem like I was talking about something else, somebody else or a past me that I didn’t really associate with, I’ve got the symptoms, or the aftermath of it.
Bill Gasiamis 31:38
But again, even the aftermath, even the numbness, the balance issues, or the things that I’ve got, I kind of don’t remember a time where I when I didn’t have them, although I know that I actually did I know because I still also play football.
Bill Gasiamis 31:52
And I also used to have no balance issues. And I also used to have no numbness in my left side. But now it’s like, it’s not, it’s not like, I’m comparing myself to that time anymore. I’ve stopped doing that. I’ve stopped saying, oh, gosh, I remember a time when I didn’t have this stuff.
Bill Gasiamis 32:12
Oh my God, I wish it went back to that I don’t do that. So every time I speak about it, puts it further and further into a place where it’s not harming me when I talk about it. And it’s being really useful when I do talk about it for the other people that are early on in that stage. So that’s, I’ve come I’ve spoken about it in 200 episodes, so many times, and so many other people that I’ve spoken to it about, and I hang out with stroke survivors everywhere now in Melbourne.
Bill Gasiamis 32:39
So yeah, it’s like a real big, thing that we see that I am experiencing through a different lens. And it’s a completely different filter. It’s not the same filter than it used to be. It’s hard to describe why I’m saying it is I want to encourage people to talk about it, to talk about what they’ve been through, and to as many people as possible, as often as possible.
Bill Gasiamis 33:14
Of course, if the people aren’t willing to talk to you about it, then that’s cool too. But from that perspective, I’m just trying to encourage people and give them another example of you, hopefully, that’s sort of been through that similar place that I’ve been through.
For Good And Bad

Leigh Cleary 33:28
I think, you know, if you’re lucky, you’re surrounded by loved ones, most of your loved ones want to talk to you about it. They just don’t know how to bring it out. Because they don’t want to hurt your feelings. They don’t want to remind you of that time.
Leigh Cleary 33:41
But I think listening to what you were saying there. A real moment for me was when I stopped thinking about what it was like to be me before my stroke and after stroke. When I stopped thinking of those people as two different people. I am what I am and everything that’s happened in between now and being born. It’s just made me who I am for the good and for the bad.
Intro 34:02
If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. Like how long will it take to recover? Will I actually recover? What things should I avoid In case I make matters worse?
Intro 34:20
Doctors will explain things. But obviously, you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask. If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation. Stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you.
Intro 34:42
It’s called seven questions to ask your doctor about your stroke. These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke. They’ll not only help you better understand your condition. They’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery. Head to the website now recoveryafterstroke.com and download the guide. It’s free.
Leigh Cleary 35:06
I mean, that minute when you stop thinking about what it was like before, because for years, it’s easy to become a victim and not a survivor, it’s really easy to do that. But I think for ages, I was a victim of it in my own mind going, well, of course, you know, something would happen where I’d lose my balance or feel really fatigued or whatever. So maybe have to go home from work early, I think the old Leigh wouldn’t have done this.
Leigh Cleary 35:34
But I think I then just got to a point of, you know, what, this is what I am, forget the old Leigh, current Leigh, the new Leigh or whatever, just focus on the future and what you can be and what you can achieve in life and what you need to do still to have a good life.
Leigh Cleary 35:50
So I think that minute, you know, I wouldn’t say there was a specific minute, but I remember just a while back thinking, You know what, I just don’t think of those two things anymore, like pre and post-stroke, I just think of me as me, and I think once you it, it becomes that I think everything becomes a little easier to deal with.
Bill Gasiamis 36:07
Yeah, you know, when you have a sports injury, this is how I relate to it now. And I didn’t play football for a lot of years, and never professionally anything, or any any sort of high level. But I, I injured my left toe, my little pinky toe, my left or my left foot.
Bill Gasiamis 36:26
And what happened was I kicked the ball. And at the same time, or no, what I was doing is I was stopping somebody, somebody from kicking the ball. And as I put it out, my foot out, he kicked my toe. And the toe never broke, never got damaged to that extent. But what it did was really bruised the bone, it really deeply bruised the bone, and then it had some swelling around it.
Bill Gasiamis 36:52
And then for many, many years afterwards, every time I would be in a position where I was tackling somebody and we just had normal contact, the toe would swell up and get really impacted and affected and let me know that it’s struggling again, or it’s been injured again or something. But it was never the same impact that hit it every time afterwards.
Bill Gasiamis 37:19
And even to this day, even as I’m talking about now, I can sense that that toe feels differently from my other toe. And I never think about it in a way. It never does the hole in my head. It never does the hole. Oh my God, I wish my toe was different. It and I never do the I remember when my toe didn’t do that. It just always reminds me that it’s there. Without really stopping me from being who I want to be. If I was able to play football now, which I probably couldn’t.
Bill Gasiamis 37:52
It wouldn’t stop me from playing. But in the game, it will remind me every so often in a tackle. But here I am. And I just need to be aware of it. And I think it’s a reminder, and I need to be aware of it so that I can alter the way that I go about things, do things differently, smarter, more cautiously. I’m not sure what the actual correct sentences. But that’s kind of how I feel about myself now.
Bill Gasiamis 38:17
I’ve got to adjust, and I’ve got to find a new way to apply myself to the daily tasks that I have to do. So that I can get through my day. And I can’t do it, like I used to do before because there’ll be a Foley, that would be something that’s not right. Because I I have to I’m different, I have to go about things differently.
Bill Gasiamis 38:39
So this whole thought process is really kind of expanding my horizons and my ability to contemplate how I’m going to go about my day where, whereas before, I never thought about anything, and I was never mindful in the moment. Now I am a lot because I’ve got to pay attention to where my leg is, for example, if I’m on a ladder, or if I’m going up steps.
Bill Gasiamis 39:04
So it actually brings my attention away from the past, away from the anxiety of the future. What does the future hold? And it makes me really focus and concentrate on the now because if I don’t I’m going to trip going up that ladder or trip coming down those stairs. Do you know what I mean?
Leigh Cleary 39:23
I totally get that, that really makes sense actually.
Getting Back To Work After A Bleed On The Brain

Bill Gasiamis 39:30
So with work for you, how did you go about getting back to work and were you able to go back to your old job?
Leigh Cleary 39:37
I was and you know what I think and I think I mentioned earlier that my work colleagues and my bosses at the time were fantastic when it happens. So when my wife made that call, be it tomorrow or for the foreseeable future. You know, it’s really really poorly this has happened.
Leigh Cleary 39:59
My line manager, Simon at the time was fantastic. He was like, we’re gonna get you a hotel near the hospitals, you have to do the driving. She was like, No, I’d rather be in my own bed at night, don’t need that. And he said, we’ll get your driver from to and from, you know, the hospital to hospital.
Leigh Cleary 40:19
She said, Well, they told me that you need to supply the next three or four days. But there’s also a chance that you might not so you don’t want to be with a stranger and find out that my husband just died. And that was really hard for me to hear when I’d come out, because she was telling me all this, about how great these people were for me.
Leigh Cleary 40:38
But when I went back to work, I have to say, I think, and it wasn’t for the one of trying to understand, I think, because I appeared to everybody, like everyone was like, Oh, I mean, at the time, I think I thought at least lost a bit of weight. And he’s gone a bit gray. Because that had happened. But I think some of that was, you know, I was turning 40. So that’s going to happen, right?
Leigh Cleary 40:57
So the grain is not the losing weight normally goes the other way. And it certainly has since. But I think every for at least just back as normal, I looked the same as a little unsteady on my face and everything. I think someone said to me, you just look a lot more thoughtful about your movement now.
Leigh Cleary 41:11
And so for that, because I have to be, you know, I can’t just swing around on a swivel chair now and jump up and go down to the coffee machine or whatever, I have to turn out a bit more generally, and think about where I’m going and think about what I need to do.
Leigh Cleary 41:25
But I think I really lost my sense of what’s the word, my inner monologue, that filter. And the job I have had to keep everybody happy, was really important to keep everybody motivated and happy. And I just sit there in meetings, and I wouldn’t sweat when we were in poker.
Leigh Cleary 41:46
And I just literally say that’s not really, right. In a really unprofessional way, I think in the end, me and that business just came to the agreement that it was, you know, better that we parted ways, and we did it on friendly terms. And, you know, it’s kind of financially beneficial for me and stuff. So it was, it was all good. But I think it was hard for them to understand.
Leigh Cleary 42:07
We’re not come back, but I was never going to be the person that I was before is never going to be as bothered about a multibillion-pound organization not selling quite as many kitchens as they needed to. Because now we’re looking at that in perspective.
Leigh Cleary 42:20
So there’s not really a big deal is it because they’re still going to be able to function tomorrow, everyone’s still going to have a job and nothing terrible is going to happen if we’re going to take that extra kitchen or whatever. So I think, you know, once that happens, we have our sense of perspective on that job was completely different. And I needed to be a different person to what I am carrying on that job.
Leigh Cleary 42:43
So work is completely different for me. Now I run my own little business, which is tuning cars remapping cars all on a laptop, which is great, because I can manage my own time, you know, a long day for me these days is like eight hours at push. And that’s including traveling stuff, which is more than capable of doing that.
Leigh Cleary 43:04
And I really enjoy it. It’s really nice meeting. I mean, I’m a bit of a petrol head at heart. So it’s really nice meeting fellow petrolheads and seeing them fuse the attic about their cars. And while I’m going to go faster, you’re like, Yeah, well watch out for the police, you know, you’re gonna get yourself in trouble. And Ben is really, really cool. I really like it. Now it’s got a real good balance on home more. So I think I mentioned earlier state used to stay away Monday through Friday, pretty much. And that was hard for me. I had a realization we bought the house I live in now actually, just after I’d had the stroke.
Leigh Cleary 43:36
And a friend of mine was in this hotel. This was right at the time. And I was thinking yeah, well, this job’s not for me anymore. I was kind of already in that place. And there’s gotta be more to life than just staying in a hotel, getting up in the morning, going to work going back to the hotel, you know, eat sleep, work, the peak, you know, that was kind of the life I was living.
Leigh Cleary 43:58
And, and he said to me, how’s that lovely house of yours? And I said, You know what, Andy, I have no idea. I’m never bloody there. You know, asked me about room 302. And I’ll tell you all about it. I mean, every night but yeah, after that my house, I don’t know. And I remember thinking that’s that can’t be right. You know, this is the home that we wanted as a family we all chose together and we’re really happy to live in.
Leigh Cleary 44:19
But you know, I was never here. So actually getting made redundant or parting ways with that job. Everybody was hanging out. It’s really bad. They should have done that. And that was okay. And I walked out with enough money to start this venture that I do now. And it’s all worked out. Okay. And actually, I was really grateful for that moment when they were like, it’s all over. You can just go home. You know, it was kind of a real big moment for me.
All Work And No Play

Bill Gasiamis 44:43
Sounds like it was a big relief. You know, the thing you just said about the house. That is one of the most profound things I’ve ever heard. Okay, so I’m going to repeat what I heard. So you were working to be able to afford to build a bigger, better, beautiful house. And because of the fact that you’re working so much, you were never there. It was just this thing that was driving you to work, and work and work.
Leigh Cleary 45:12
Was here two days a week.
Bill Gasiamis 45:14
That’s insane.
Leigh Cleary 45:17
It when you say it like that I’ve never really, I guess shared that with too many people. But it insane isn’t it? You work your butt off to provide and don’t get me wrong, we had everything. You know, we were financially really good and whatever my daughter or my wife wanted in terms of materialistic things they had, but I was never here.
Leigh Cleary 45:40
Saturday, Sunday I was here. But I felt like a way to make up for not being here all week by taking them out and doing stuff. So I was never actually just sat on my couch on a Saturday watching the football scores come in, or watching a movie with my daughter. I just never had that time to do that.
Bill Gasiamis 45:57
And I realized how insane it is only because I recognize myself in your story. And I know that there’s a whole bunch of people listening going, What on earth are we doing? What the hell are we doing killing ourselves for something that’s supposedly, you know, the goal is, you know, it’s a materialistic thing but you’ll look at that you suppose that they feel better by being in or you have a high status symbol or whatever.
Bill Gasiamis 46:28
But it’s killing you to achieve it to get it, it’s probably killing you. At least, that’s my experience, it was almost killing me, I was working 16 17 18 hours a day sometimes. And those alien hours weren’t all on the tools or anything like that. They were paperwork, they were quotes, they were all sorts of things that needed to be done for the business that I was running, which I’m still running.
Bill Gasiamis 46:54
And I was doing it all on my own thinking that that’s surely the only way that business people run their businesses, they just work 24 hours a day, seven days a week. And for me, I hated the entirety of it. Like I hated the whole thing of it. Now I’m doing it, and enjoying the challenges is still the same. But the but the part that I’m doing that takes more time, is now my passion project, the stroke recovery podcast, right?
Bill Gasiamis 47:21
So I am doing the same amount of hours. But more than half of my day is filled with doing this stuff, which I love. And which really makes my heart come alive. You know, and I don’t hate it. And I don’t, I’m not being I don’t feel like I’m being forced to do it. And that’s the difference. And I’m at home doing it because this is my garage. It’s not, it’s not a real studio.
Bill Gasiamis 47:50
So you know what I mean? Like, it’s a very, it’s the same amount of effort and energy, but it’s so much more rewarding and well worth doing. And previously, I was supposedly making more money. But man, I wasn’t benefiting from it at all.
Leigh Cleary 48:08
I had this conversation with my sister just this week. And then last week, she was getting in a bit of a pickle about not owning a house. So she’s gone through a bit of a messy divorce and stuff. And she’s currently kind of leasing an apartment. And I’m just kind of getting a knickers in a twist about it. Well, you know, the only person that gets rich off of you owning the house?
Leigh Cleary 48:31
It’s your bank. It’s not you. I said but we’re conditioned to think that you’ve got to own a house, you’ve got to have your little plot of the world. And you must have your name on the deeds othersise you’re a failure certainly in England, that seems to be the thought process, right? You don’t own your own house. You don’t always get to have a look you’ve got a good life now you’re happy your sons, well. Why would you be bothered about what the perspective of other people’s opinion it’s not really that important.
Bill Gasiamis 49:00
I’ve got a really tiny place. And it’s three bedrooms. So it’s big enough to fit our family when the kids are growing. And there is no space for a studio. So this is the garage. And there’s a space for a courtyard and the courtyard is about 40 square meters. And no front yard. So it’s like a little townhouse-type thing. It’s very similar to what I see in a lot of the houses on TV in the UK.
Leigh Cleary 49:34
That is our house that is pretty much where we live, only goes up by a lot. So it’s like three storeys and very kind of you’d expect to see it in a Harry Potter film, you know, when they’re going down all these little old London streets.
Bill Gasiamis 49:50
That’s it. Mine’s a modern version of one of those two stories. And then as a result of that, what that means is the amount of upkeep and time and effort that it takes get it clean, tidy. All that is no time it doesn’t take any time at all. The grass to cut the grass does that doesn’t exist, there’s no such thing as getting out and cutting the lawn. There’s, there’s a beautiful, I have English box hedges, there’s a beautiful garden that I’ve manicured over time. And the reason I chose those is because they’re really slow, slow, slow growing, and you only need to trim two times a year.
Bill Gasiamis 50:27
And that’s about it right. So I go through this process of trying to decrease the amount of things that I’m doing that I disliked doing. And cutting the grass was one of them. And, you know, maintaining all this other stuff was one of them. And I do all that stuff for a living anyway. So that’s the kind of business I have, right? It’s a property maintenance business.
Bill Gasiamis 50:48
So I hate doing my day work, I hate doing it at home on my leisure time. Yeah, so that’s been able to be a really good thing for me, because as a result of that, now I don’t have energy that I need to put into something that I’m not in that often anyway, so you can imagine maintaining a backyard.
Bill Gasiamis 51:14
Which I used to do in the past before the home that we’re living in now, maintaining a backyard for us to never be in there. Unless we were in there probably once or twice a month, when people come around. And I’m spending that entire month maintaining it, making sure that everything’s perfect, and the rest of it. And I can’t afford a gardener, so to speak or anything like that.
Bill Gasiamis 51:34
So I just see it now as this, I see the properties and that kind of stuff as burdens rather than something that I have to get make bigger, have the newest, all that kind of stuff, I compare myself to the Joneses, and all that type of stuff. I mean, it’s completely out of my head that I need to do that, all I need to do is have something that I can live in, that literally fits my butt and enables me to sleep in a dry place and is warm.
Bill Gasiamis 52:07
That’s It’s all I need. I don’t need anything more than that. And I can downsize so well, like I’d be able to be a really good downsizer. Whereas my wife’s not at that stage, she hasn’t been what I’ve been through from my perspective. And she’s not really keen on the big house or any of that stuff. She’s none of that stuff.
Bill Gasiamis 52:29
But she hasn’t thought about things, the way that I think about it, she wouldn’t feel the need to downsize. But I reckon I could go from this house to a two-bedroom place without a problem, I can easily get rid of 90% of my rubbish that I’ve got stored around the joint other than my books, and just feel better about the fact that I’ve got to do less. And I’ve got to feel less. I’ve got to filll the other people’s pockets less often.
Leigh Cleary 52:59
You know what you just said that that’s, that’s kind of struck a chord with me is you’re talking about. She’s not been through what you’ve been through, like your wife, and so she’ll have a completely different perspective on life. So for the past two years, I’ve just understood after three years of hell, I guess to getting fit again, and getting back to the real world, I guess, where you start to be self-sufficient and just kind of rub yourself down and get on with it and not have people looking after your every whim and needed stuff, which actually was quite nice.
Leigh Cleary 53:38
But my perspective of life. For the past two years, I think I’ve now had to start explaining myself to my wife. This is why I say it like this. So she’ll understand that I used to get really frustrated with her like, well, obviously, that’s crazy to think like that she’s like, but that’s how we’ve always thought for the last 15 years or 20 years that we’ve been together.
Leigh Cleary 53:58
So why are you saying that why have you changed? I said I have changed, I guess. But I don’t really recognize that change anymore. But I guess I have to almost go back looking at myself and say, Well, yeah, of course you’ve changed. Because I guess you’d be pretty arrogant to have that life-changing event and not let it change you. You almost got to embrace that change and let it happen. I guess.
The Opportunity To Learn And Grow
Bill Gasiamis 54:23
I don’t think the word arrogant you’d have to be stupid to go through what you’re been through, and then insist on remain the same as you were, you’re going backwards, you’re not moving forward. It’s an opportunity for you to learn and grow from. It’s an opportunity for you to see things from a different perspective which we don’t get to do right.
Bill Gasiamis 54:45
When you had to be in a wheelchair for a small amount of time like I did. Man, I get to see the perspective of these people that have to be in wheelchairs all the time. Because I was almost one of them and I never knew at the beginning whether I would not be that guy I took it on the chin.
Bill Gasiamis 55:01
And I just thought, whatever comes. If that means I’ve got to deal with different levels of depression and anxiety and all that kind of stuff, well, I’m not going to worry about it right now I’ll deal with them when they come. But I’m so grateful that I got to experience what it’s like to be in a wheelchair to need to go to the toilet, from a wheelchair, and to have nobody next to me to help me.
Bill Gasiamis 55:22
I can’t feel my left side, and I’ve got to drag myself to a toilet, because I’m going to crap my pants. And there’s nobody around to help me even though I was in a hospital. And they were all busy. So when somebody has a wheelchair, and bumps into me in a crowded place, instead of being the idiot that I was beforehand, who would have thought, what mate? Can’t you see me?
Bill Gasiamis 55:46
Now I’m like, Well, maybe the guy is just trying to get through in a way that’s different to the way that I’m going to get through. And I don’t need to be so precious about the fact that I was bumped into by a person in a wheelchair. And you know, what it also helped me do, it helped me go help me do this.
Bill Gasiamis 56:06
I do not know what, regardless of whether this somebody is in a wheelchair or not, I do not know what the other person across from me has just been through or is constantly going through. And therefore I need to be better at being gentler to them and more understanding to them and more empathetic to them before I even knew anything about them.
Leigh Cleary 56:34
One of my closest friends paid me a really nice compliment. And a while back, and I kind of chucked it back at him If I’m honest so we sat on the side of this lovely bar in town. I do other things other than drink, by the way. But it’s something I’m really good. And I really enjoy. So this homeless chap come up to us and asked us for some change.
Leigh Cleary 56:55
And I said, Yeah, of course you can. So I’ve got some change. And my friend said you always give money to homeless people now. I said, What do you mean, he said well before, when we used to know each other. So we kind of reconnected after I had a stroke, he found out that I’d been really poorly.
Leigh Cleary 57:09
I think it was right when my life was in a balance. I think a friend of mine kind of a mutual friend said, you know, Leigh’s, like really bad, he’s really bad here. And, you know, might not actually pull through this. He said, I need to get back in contact with him. And we haven’t kind of kicked off where we left off all those years ago.
Leigh Cleary 57:28
And we’re in this bar and he said. I’ve really noticed that about you. You said you do anything to help anybody now? And I said, well, not anybody, not everybody I said, but I do think I said, you see that guy a homeless guy as a pest, I how did he get to that stage, no one’s going to choose that life, right? Like, let’s say been a wheelchair, no one would say, that’s what I want to do, I want that I want to not be able to walk, no one’s gonna choose to be homeless and be out on the street.
Leigh Cleary 57:57
So if I don’t know, a couple of pounds out of my pocket, that’s, fairly irrelevant, and that money buys them a coffee or helps them get through the night, then. So be it, I’m happy to do that. And I think you do go through that. And like, say, you’d have to be stupid, to go through what you’ve been through, I’ve been through and not change your perspective, a little, if not a lot, I don’t think I’ve changed it that much.
Leigh Cleary 58:22
Some people around me will say you’ve changed loads. I think I’ve always been a bit. I’ve been very empathetic. And people are just maybe not showing it as well as I do now. And maybe not as gentle as I am now will be will be quite hard. So if somebody was homeless, I wouldn’t be that person go, Well, you got yourself like that you get yourself out of it, you know, whereas now it’s like, it’s just not that simple life, just not that simple.
Leigh Cleary 58:44
It’s not that simple to think that you’re in a wheelchair, like, you know, that’s not because you’re lazy. It’s not because it’s your fault. You’re in a wheelchair, Something bad must have happened to you at birth. Before, since you know, whatever, it’s just not as straightforward. And I think that’s it has taught me I think I used to see life for a very straightforward lens. And now I’m kind of a lot more understanding to other people go through.
Bill Gasiamis 59:10
The thing about homeless people that you mentioned on the same. And I don’t share it with anybody. Nobody knows that I do this because it’s not something you need to share. But I reckon there’s people like you and me, who are listening to this podcast episode who do the same thing that you do now and that I do now. And that’s why I’m mentioning it because if they are, I’d love to hear from them.
Bill Gasiamis 59:34
And now it’s like homeless people and I like we have this unspoken language that as soon as they see me, they feel like they can ask me for a few bucks. And I’m like, oh, yeah, of course, no worries. And I always go into the central business district with some coins in my pockets on purpose, and so that I can hand them out to whoever asks and even if they don’t ask.
Bill Gasiamis 1:00:00
There’s plenty of homeless people around that are asking, you could just leave a few coins in their hat or whatever. They’ve got their container. So I, my wife said the same thing to me years ago, she said, Well, you’re always giving money to homeless people now, just as an observation, and I said, Yeah, because I just could have been one, I know that my family technically wouldn’t have let me be in that situation, they probably would have pulled out all stops to avoid me from getting into that situation.
Bill Gasiamis 1:00:29
But I just as easily could have been one of those people, because the mental health issues that come with stroke can be life-changing, and life-altering for people to the extent where they don’t recognize themselves, and they don’t know how to go about regular life anymore. And they default to things and make decisions that end up going badly, that can actually put them in that situation where they end up living, homeless.
Bill Gasiamis 1:00:56
So I don’t see that they are different from me, I see those people as the same as me. And not only those people, anybody I see, everybody is the same as me now. So identify and share myself, I’m not higher than them, I’m not lower than them, I’m not equal to them. They’re just humans, they’re having a human experience, whatever their version of it is, and I used to do the whole I’m never gonna give people money, because they’re probably going to go buy alcohol or drugs with it, or something like that.
Bill Gasiamis 1:01:27
And it’s such a bullshit thing to say about people. How judgmental are you that you think you’ve decided that that’s what they’re gonna go do with it? And even if they do, who cares? Like, if that’s what they need to get through the day? And if that’s what they need to not try and get money from somebody else in a negative way, or rob somebody or whatever. I think that’s fine.
Leigh Cleary 1:01:50
Or kill themselves, if that’s what they need, I think, I’ll happily buy someone a beer or whatever, if it’s going to stop them chuck themselves off a bridge or whatever. Because you know, these people are not going to be in a great place mentally, are they?
Bill Gasiamis 1:02:04
No. And while they’re still alive, there’s still hope for change and recovery and overcoming. And I’ll never forget, the thing that cemented it for me was we’ve got this really famous pub in Melbourne. It’s across the road from our main station, the Flinders Street Station. It’s called the Yellin Jacksons. And there was a lady sitting there and she was asking for some food, some for some money.
Bill Gasiamis 1:02:27
And I just squat down and sat next to her for a little bit. And we were having a chat, and she was telling me, she came from another state. And while she was here, things didn’t go the way she planned. And literally, within a couple of months, she had no money and she was homeless. And the person that she had come with had left her or whatever, and they separated.
Helping Others In Need
Bill Gasiamis 1:02:48
And she was trying to get enough money to get some sleep to get a place to sleep that evening. So I think they have to pay a small amount. But then the only way to get that money is to ask. So I said to her, so what do you need right now? She said, it’d be good if you could go get me a feed. The local McDonald’s was down the road. What did you like? She said, Give me some McDonald’s.
Bill Gasiamis 1:03:09
She told me what to get her. I went and got her the meal, I think it was six or seven bucks. And then brought it back to her. We had another chat. And after about 10 or 15 minutes, I let her eat and I left. And then it was literally no more than six months later. I’m just flicking through the channels on TV. And I see this face that I recognize.
Bill Gasiamis 1:03:30
And I’m just trying to work out who this person is, why do I recognize her. And she had just landed permanent state-based accommodation that she was able to live in. And she was talking to the reporter that was interviewing her about how it’s going to change her life, how it’s going to make her feel safe, how it’s going to impact the rest of her life, the fact that she had just somehow landed this government run accomodation.
Bill Gasiamis 1:04:01
And for me, that was it. That was the absolute kicker not that I needed one anymore. But that was the kicker. It proved to me that people are just looking for a way to make the situation better. When they ask you for money. They’re not actually doing anything else. They’re just trying to make their situation better. dollar by dollar, pound by pounds, whatever it is, and they just need help.
Bill Gasiamis 1:04:30
So I don’t think there’s anything better than just speaking to random people who look like they need help. Even if they’re not asking for money, even if they’re just sitting lonely on a chair, or on a train or in a bus. I think there’s nothing better than just reaching out to somebody and saying good day.
Bill Gasiamis 1:04:57
That’s the part that I’ve taken from all of this amongst other things, like, I was never the guy, I was never the guy that did that something so dramatic had to happen to me for me to appreciate the difficulties that other people might be going through and I’m bloody thankful for the lesson, let me tell you, I was such an idiot such a thick head before that.
Bill Gasiamis 1:05:16
And not through any kind it was from being ignorant, that’s all it was just from being ignorant, not from malice, or me trying to be mad, or anything like that. It’s just from being ignorant and having lived an ideal life for 37 years, which I’m totally grateful for. But now that my life’s had this massive speed bump, I’m also totally grateful for I wouldn’t change it.
Leigh Cleary 1:05:49
I was trying to explain this to my daughter, we were talking about coming on this podcast today. And I said, you can sit and listen if you’d like. She said, I’ll take the mickey out of you. So I went gone up to bed. So that’s what you’re gonna say. So we’ll see what Arthur said. But I think, you know, hopefully, it’ll be quite natural conversation, which it has, by the way, I’m just gonna read natural set of ads you feel about stroking that? So I’m kind of glad it happened.
Leigh Cleary 1:06:21
So that, you know, I would want to go through it again no, would I wish it on somebody else? Absolutely not. But I feel like a better more rounded person for the fact that this happened. And I think my life decisions now are better informed as a result of it happening. So I’m totally down what you’re saying, you know, grateful for those life lessons that has given you because without them, you know, you’d be a dancer, you weren’t a complete ignoramus. But still being that person that was, you know, a little bit ignorant to other people’s needs and challenges. I definitely was,
Bill Gasiamis 1:06:55
I really would, because I wasn’t indicating a change in lifestyle or behavior in any way, shape, or form. Before that wasn’t indicating it at all. I mean, I got really stuck into personal development, and try to find some amazing courses that are going to shift my perspective and allow me to deal with all of the trauma, the trauma that I’d been through.
Bill Gasiamis 1:07:17
And that my family had been through, and then the new way that we were going about life, like I really had to gain the skills to be able to just deal with it. If I didn’t gain those skills, it would have been a much worse outcome for me, mentally, I don’t think I would have made it mentally.
Bill Gasiamis 1:07:33
So what what I, what I wished, not even wished, but the way I reflect on it is wouldn’t it have been great to learn what we’ve learned, without going through something so challenging and difficult. Give me the lessons can be the growth and the lessons part of the suffering, but I don’t think they come separately. I think they come hand in hand.
Leigh Cleary 1:08:00
I think you’re right. You kind of have to go through that to truly understand it.
Bill Gasiamis 1:08:04
Yeah, you do. And when somebody hasn’t gone through that they won’t truly understand. And then deeply knowing that about them. That makes me feel okay, as well that they don’t understand the person on the other side of the chair doesn’t understand. And I’m like, I’m kind of glad you don’t understand and it’s less frustrating.
Leigh Cleary 1:08:27
It took me a while to get to that stage, I think to realize that not everybody would understand or see the world through a similar lens. But I think once you get it you kind of like, you know, I’m glad you didn’t say like that, because the reason I do is because I went through this horrendous thing that I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemies, let alone a loved one. So yeah, I totally get that.
Bill Gasiamis 1:08:46
Yeah. And then isn’t it cool that while the people around you don’t understand there’s a whole bunch of us around the world that do understand.
Leigh Cleary 1:08:59
Yeah. I’d like to think that there’s people around me that as a result of me, I mean, they all went through it as well. Right? You know, I think you could sit here with my brother and my sister, my best friend, my wife, my daughter, and have it equally good an informed conversation about the impact of a stroke, because they saw it, it’s how accurately with a tie what happened to them as well in the shape that he held, it was for them to live live that life. So I think it’s, you know, they may have changed as a result in the main for the good.
Leigh Cleary 1:09:30
I would say, Let’s make them a little bit more empathetic. You know, I know. You know, certainly my brother and sister, you know, sort of, they’ll talk in court, you know, when you go and see your big brother who you think is immortal. Yeah, the big bully of the family in hospital looking like, this could be the last day on the planet. It’s a it’s a rude awakening, you know, so I think, yeah, I think it affects everybody around you.
Leigh Cleary 1:09:53
If you’re lucky enough to have people around you. I saw people in hospital that definitely aren’t you sort of see everything? Every day on the now as soon as it was kind of visiting time in hospital? I had people that were on my bed. Weather that’s my wife, my daughter, mother and father-in-law and my stepdad, you know, we aren’t using all friends and all sorts.
Leigh Cleary 1:10:16
But equally, I saw people in hospital. Days go by no visitors. You just think that’s? Yeah, that’s really sad, you know, really sad. Yeah. So I think if you’re lucky enough to have those people around you, they’ll change as a result of it. And I think that’s something to definitely not forget, if you’re unfortunate enough to be in that position where you’ve had that happen to the people around you will change as well. It’s going to change, it’s gonna change them too.
Bill Gasiamis 1:10:41
Yeah, absolutely. It does change people. I know a lot of people. Some people didn’t know what to do, how to behave, what to say all of that stuff. Some people didn’t come, some people that I didn’t expect to come to end up and we’re way, way more empathetic than I ever expected them to be. And if you’re somebody listening, who’s perhaps in a situation where people aren’t, where you don’t have a lot of people around, you reach out to other stroke survivors, they’ll get you this a whole world of people on Instagram, Facebook, social media is really good for that. Perhaps not in your local community.
Bill Gasiamis 1:11:21
But there are heaps of people that are willing to share. For example, Leigh and I, we do not know each other from a bar of sort yet, here we are. We’re on a podcast, we’re chatting about stuff. I feel like I’ve known him forever. And we have a kinship. There’s something that we share that you can’t really explain or describe. But here we are. interacting, and it’s that easy. That’s how easy it is to find amazing people to interact with. Just be a bit braver.
Leigh Cleary 1:11:50
I really admire I see a lot of people really kind of document their recovery. I could never do that. Yeah, in fact, I’ve seen footage of me they did some filming of me when I was learning to, to walk again. And I saw it when I was volunteering. And I literally had to leave the rooms I could feel myself going because I just looked so weak. And so poorly. I was like, This is why now I see why my best bud turned up in hospital and turned out to just burst into tears my brother the same neck.
Leigh Cleary 1:12:23
Now I know what it work as I’ve just looked like a shadow off myself. So I really admire people that do document it, though. And, I always comment messages of support and stuff. I just think that’s one it’s really brave, you know, really brave. And I think there’s the pessimist side of me Bill, you know, look at me, I’ve done this today. And I think it’s really good. And it’s really good motivation, hopefully for the people out there that are struggling. And you see people doing things and stuff like that.
Celebrate The Small Wins
Bill Gasiamis 1:12:52
It does motivate other people. And it also is really good to celebrate your wins and go back and reflect on how far you’ve come. Because a lot of people forget to do that. And sometimes, even I did you get stuck in the whole oh my gosh, you know, it’s been 12 months, I still can’t talk properly or remember or, whereas my counselor used to say to me, oh, my gosh, look how far you’ve come.
Bill Gasiamis 1:13:18
You weren’t speaking like this six months ago, or five months ago or whatever. And she had, she had to do the reminding for me. So I didn’t have the sense to do a personal journal or any of that thing, or document myself in any way. But the people that are doing it, I think it’s such an amazing thing. Because what it also shows is the progression of the recovery.
Bill Gasiamis 1:13:41
So you get to see that person in hospital, they’re a goner. And then you get to see them get better and better and better. And then if you’ve been following them for long enough, and they’re two or three years down the track, you get to really experience the growth and the stages. And that’s such a good thing.
Bill Gasiamis 1:13:58
That is exactly what we need to demonstrate and what I needed, I needed to see people that are been through what I’d been through many years earlier, and had come out the other side. And I got that instantly with a mate of mine now a guy who’s a mate of my mouth, who had been through a dissection of his one of his carotid arteries. He had also passed out through a through heart failure at the same time.
Bill Gasiamis 1:14:24
And then they stitched him up and picked him up. And when I got to him, he was about 10 years beyond that. So it happened to him in his early 20s. And in his late 20s And he was 10 years beyond that. And I was going into surgery a week later.
Bill Gasiamis 1:14:40
And I said to him, Andrew, I just need to know that it’s possible to get better, you know, because I’ve got this surgery coming up, they’re gonna open my head up and they’re gonna take this faulty blood vessel out. And I don’t know what what I’m going to be like after that.
Bill Gasiamis 1:14:54
And just him being there and telling me his story and then being able to see him I just felt like, Okay, well, this is doable we could certainly do something. So that’s what I love about people who actually document it. They think they’re doing it for themselves, like there’s a bit of that. But they’re doing so much more for other people. It’s just same as this podcast. It’s just amazing.
Leigh Cleary 1:15:21
Totally agree.
Bill Gasiamis 1:15:22
So what’s the future hold? Tell me a little bit about what you’re thinking about the next few years.
Leigh Cleary 1:15:29
So the next two years will be so I live in the middle of England. So if you look at England as a map, I live literally, we couldn’t be further away from water. Like literally where we live is the furthest party away from water. Unless it rains, which it does a lot. So moving back down to the south coast, which is where both me and my wife are from, we’re going to wait till my daughter finish their studies and goes off to university.
Leigh Cleary 1:15:56
To do that, let her kind of finish her hastened to call her child because she is 16 years old and clearly knows everything. Once she’s finished, Sixth Form education will move back to the south of a country, she’ll probably head off to university yourself. So my business at the minute I predominantly base myself on the south of the country to build the business there so that when we move back, I feel the benefit of not having to travel to.
Leigh Cleary 1:16:21
So that’s pretty exciting. We’re going to move him back down to our hometown, we’ll be really excited to get back down there. He has been 13 years since we’ve lived there. So it’s been a long time we moved up here for what was going to be a year. And that was 13 years ago. And here I am talking to you now. But in two years time, you know, we will eventually get back there.
Leigh Cleary 1:16:40
But yeah, so that’s what the next two years holds. Hopefully, the business will hold out and keep doing well. I think, you know, I don’t know what it’s like in Australia. But they’re saying that in England in 2030, there will be no petrol diesel cars, it’ll be all electric cars. I think it’s the biggest scam in the world. By the way. This is this is all to, you know, obviously to save the environment.
Leigh Cleary 1:17:06
But I’m also acutely aware of how long these batteries last and cars and stuff. So I’m not sure that’s going to happen. But if it does, that’ll have a detrimental effect on my business. Because essentially, you know, I make petrol heads go faster, not electric heads, because there’s not such a thing yet.
Bill Gasiamis 1:17:25
I don’t think it’s going to end in 2030 no chance it’s going to end. And it’s too soon, because you can’t just switch off something that has been going for 100. And so years in 10, you just can’t switch it off. There’s too much reliance on it.
Leigh Cleary 1:17:41
The infrastructure straightaway that you would need to go to that is it’s not even close to being met like Oh, there’s more electric points now. There was more, if everybody had a car, what would the queue be? Like, one electric point that’s gonna get to him?
Bill Gasiamis 1:17:58
Yeah, that’s just the thing that I say I love things that are about protecting us from, you know, from ourselves, you know, planetary protection, all that kind of stuff, you know, it’s our home, we need to protect it, I get it all. But the rhetoric around that is a little bit ridiculous, in my opinion.
Bill Gasiamis 1:18:18
As if the people who are putting all this stuff together, don’t know that it’s not going to be done in 10 years time. The politicians are the ones I think that muddy the waters with regards to conversations because the what they need to do is win power, they need to get back into power. So they talk the talk to get into power. But we have a train line.
Bill Gasiamis 1:18:41
We have a train line that they’ve been talking about for 40 years that needs to go from the Tullamarine airport, which is the airport main airport in Melbourne, to the central business district, which is about a 50 kilometer stretch. They’ve been talking about a train line for 40 years and it’s still not in this is one of the most livable cities in the world. There’s 6 million people in here. And they cannot get a train line in from one part of the the town to the other part of the town. And they’re telling us they’re going to switch off all this stuff in 10 years. I don’t think so.
Leigh Cleary 1:19:11
I’m a massive skeptic of it. You know, certainly in England is one votes over the past few years because you know, we do need to like say save us from ourselves because that is clearly what is ruining the planet is humans that ruin it not animals. There’s no chance.
Bill Gasiamis 1:19:38
And not only that, there is a need for fossil fuel use because they go into the benefactor of everything else. It may stop the polluting of the atmosphere to the extent the air that we breathe, etc, and change the chemical composition of our environment and that’s all cool but you’re might be out of business because all those cars, or those classic cars that exist, will still need to exist, people will still be driving them. They may have different rules around how they are driven and where you can fill them and where you can fill them up and all that type of thing. But that still exist. I think you’re good for another 40 or 50 years.
Leigh Cleary 1:20:24
To be honest, another 15 And I’m good. Another 15 I’ll be quite happy to one I’m going to move into when we moved to the coast. I’m gonna move into doing boats as well. So that will get will be the next thing because they do use a lot of fuel boats.
Bill Gasiamis 1:20:43
Yeah, but there you go. I think it’d be fine for now. And I hope they work it out. And they do save us from ourselves and they make the planet healthier. There’s no doubt about that. I really hope they do that. And I’m behind that every step of the way, please find the solutions but politicians, you know, they just say stuff that is going to get voted that they think is popular.
Bill Gasiamis 1:21:07
If something that wasn’t popular in the majority of the people changed overnight, the politician would change overnight, they would change their story and their rhetoric overnight. So I really appreciate you reaching out and connecting thank you so much for being here. Thank you for sharing. I wish you all the best in your future endeavors and feel free to reach out anytime.
Leigh Cleary 1:21:36
And you to Bill.
Bill Gasiamis 1:21:38
Thank you for joining me on today’s episode. I hope you’ll like the show. To learn more about my guests including their links and to follow them and download a full transcript of the entire interview. Please go to recoveryafterstroke.com/episodes.
Bill Gasiamis 1:21:54
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Bill Gasiamis 1:22:11
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Intro 1:22:31
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Intro 1:22:48
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1 hr 25 min