Recovery After Stroke

Recovery After Stroke

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Recovery After Stroke episodes

  • Hemiplegia Recovery – Shaelyn Poisson

    Shaelyn is recovering from Hemiplegia after a carotid artery dissection at 17 years old created a clot that caused an ischemic stroke.

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    Highlights:

    01:58 Introduction

    03:00 Ischemic stroke
    09:02 Injury Prior To Ischemic Stroke
    15:12 Hemiplegia Recovery
    25:05 Planning Ahead
    30:23 Breaking 10,000 barriers
    40:52 Friends Who Stick Around During Recovery
    49:24 Rushing Independence
    56:38 Medical Professionals
    1:01:43 Dating with Hemiplegia

    Transcription:

    Shaelyn Poisson 0:00

    I had like a ponytail on the top of my head and I was whipping it around like that, and my head ended up getting stuck, like literally to the side like this. And, like it’s as dramatic as that, like, I’m not even exaggerating.

    Shaelyn Poisson 0:16

    And my mom ended up taking me to urgent care to get it checked out and stuff. But the doctor that was on call, it was a Sunday and it was like kind of later in the evening that we went, so I’m assuming he just wanted me in and out and wanted to probably go home but he told me that it was just a muscle strain and that ultrasound wasn’t needed.

    Shaelyn Poisson 0:36

    My mom was like, on it. She wanted me to get checked out for everything because she was like pretty concerned about it. So, yeah, he sent me home and told me to take ibuprofen and that it wasn’t a big deal, so I didn’t get proper treatment or diagnosis of that at all.

    Intro 0:59

    This is the recovery after stroke podcast, with Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after a stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:12

    Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Recovery after Stroke podcast. Recently, Spotify released a new feature that allows people to rate their favorite shows similarly to how the Apple podcast app allows them.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:25

    If you think my show, the recovery after stroke podcast deserves it. I’d love it if you left the show a five-star review. This will help the show rank better on search engines and help newly diagnosed stroke survivors find the show quicker, better, and easier.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:42

    And it could make a massive difference in their recovery. So it would be a tremendous honor. And you’ll be doing me a great favor. If you go to your favorite podcast app and share what the podcast means for you that really will make a huge difference.

    Introduction Hemiplegia Recovery

    Bill Gasiamis 1:58

    Thank you so much. Now, this is episode 180. My guest today is Shaelyn Poisson, who was left with hemiplegia after an ischemic stroke, which was caused by a carotid artery dissection at just 17 years of age Shaaelyn Poisson.

    Shaelyn Poisson 2:18

    Yes.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:19

    Welcome to the podcast.

    Shaelyn Poisson 2:20

    Thank you glad to be here.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:23

    That’s the first surname that I’ve tried to pronounce. And I couldn’t do it justice. I’ve never spoken French before. But I’m gonna blame my stroke, it’s because of the stroke that I can’t pronounce it.

    Shaelyn Poisson 2:35

    Fine. It’s all good, lots of people don’t get the pronunciation on that one.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:42

    Your surname is spelled Poisson. So I imagine most people just say poison

    Shaelyn Poisson 2:49

    All the time. That’s the majority of the things I get. Kind of funny actually.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:56

    Tell me a little bit about your stroke and what happened to you.

    Ischemic stroke


    Shaelyn Poisson 3:00
    Okay, so I was 17 at the time, I think I was like, a week or two away from turning 18 I was a university student, I was working two jobs at the time, I was incredibly stressed out and just super busy all the time, my schedule is completely packed all the time.

    Shaelyn Poisson 3:27

    And I was studying at my ex-boyfriend’s house for a midterm that I had coming up. We ended up getting into an argument and lots of just stress going on in my life at the time.

    Shaelyn Poisson 3:47

    Long story short, I was about to leave his house. But he was trying to make me not leave his house. He was in my car. And we were kind of just going back and forth. And I ended up feeling what felt like a pop-in like the side temple of my head.

    Shaelyn Poisson 4:10

    And I’ve heard another girl on your podcast kind of describe the same thing. And I was like, Oh my God, that’s weird that we kind of experienced the same thing. But I guess that’s what it is.

    Shaelyn Poisson 4:22

    And immediately after I felt the pop in the side of my head, I kind of went into like, what I call a trance type thing. I remember being like in like a complete state of confusion and just like, I couldn’t hear what he was saying, but I knew he was talking to me.

    Shaelyn Poisson 4:42

    And next thing I know well, from what he told me, I fell out of the left side of my car, which makes sense considering my paralysis on the left side of my body. And he grabbed me so I didn’t hit the ground obviously and he ran me into his house.

    Shaelyn Poisson 5:04

    And that’s when I immediately just started uncontrollably vomiting. And, I didn’t want him to call my mom because I didn’t want my mom to, like be mad that like we got in a fight and I don’t know, whatever. Either way, he called my mom because something bad was happening to me.

    Shaelyn Poisson 5:26

    So, she arrived and she immediately wanted to call the ambulance. So then the ambulance came. And unfortunately, since I was a young girl, I was 17. They had like, really, unfortunately, a bad impression of the scenario that was going on.

    Shaelyn Poisson 5:30

    And they automatically assumed that I was either on drugs or drunk or something. That was not the case, I was studying for a midterm that was coming up. So not at all what was happening there. But because they had that assumption of me.

    Shaelyn Poisson 6:12

    That kind of carried over to my hospital experience that ended up happening that night. I have a video up on my YouTube channel, but I’m kind of describing every event that happened that night, essentially, the doctor and the nurses honestly were very unprofessional and rude to me and my family members, more specifically, my mom and it was a really bad experience.

    Shaelyn Poisson 6:48

    And I ended up not getting diagnosed for 10 hours so I was stroking for 10 hours before they even got the idea that I might be having a stroke. And honestly, it wasn’t even the doctors that diagnosed it, It was my mom and my ex.

    Shaelyn Poisson 7:04

    They kind of were like, okay, so what are her symptoms, and they ended up googling. And then when the Google Search came up, it was stroke, stroke stroke, and they were like, Okay, we got to tell somebody, she’s probably having a stroke.

    Shaelyn Poisson 7:16

    So, yeah, at that point, I wasn’t eligible for the clot buster. Yeah, the TPA. So I believe that that left me with probably worse results than I could have been, but it is what it is.

    Bill Gasiamis 7:37

    So you heard a pop. So was it a bleeding blood vessel?

    Shaelyn Poisson 7:43

    So I had a previous neck injury, I think it was like three months prior. And so what had happened was my carotid artery had a micro tear, they called it. So that was probably bleeding over three months formed a clot and then in that moment of stress and everything, it shot up into my brain and stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 8:08

    Okay, so this is what I think happened based on what you said, I’m not a doctor, but I’ve interviewed a lot of people who had similar strokes. So what you had was a carotid artery dissection inside the blood vessel, that kind of creates a flap inside this blood vessel wall, and then it changes the blood flow around that flap, and that blood flow kind of creates a little clot.

    Bill Gasiamis 8:37

    And then that clot eventually gets bigger and bigger, it either blocks the blood vessel or moves up into the brain and causes a blockage. Depending on where it is and the size of it, then it can be more severe. Now, how did the neck injury happen? Do you recall what that incident was?

    Injury Before Ischemic Stroke

    Shaelyn Poisson 9:02

    Yeah, so I had been a dancer my whole life from like, age three, honestly. I mean, I guess that doesn’t have anything to do with this, but I loved dancing my whole life. And so it was just one day in the car, I was dancing with my best friend at the time.

    Shaelyn Poisson 9:22

    And I had like a ponytail on the top of my head and I was whipping it around like that, and my head ended up getting stuck, like literally to the side like this. And like, it’s as dramatic as that like, I’m not even exaggerating.

    Shaelyn Poisson 9:41

    And my mom ended up taking me to urgent cares to get it checked out and stuff but the doctor that was on call, it was a Sunday and it was like kind of later in the evening that we went so I’m assuming he just wanted me in and out and wanted to probably go home.

    Shaelyn Poisson 9:55

    But he told me that it was just a muscle strain and that anonymity wasn’t needed. My mom was like, on it. Like she wanted me to get checked out for everything because like necks are pretty serious, especially injury, so she was like, pretty concerned about it. So, yeah, he sent me home and told me to take ibuprofen and that it wasn’t a big deal. So, yeah, I didn’t get proper treatment or diagnosis of that at all.

    Bill Gasiamis 10:26

    So how old were you then?

    Shaelyn Poisson 10:28

    I was 17. That was only about three months before my stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 10:33

    Okay, so that ponytail movement, mucking around having fun just being silly, right? Which is just normal life, like, that’s what you’re supposed to do. This caused a tear in the carotid artery, and that caused the lighter stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 10:56

    So a couple of things went wrong all in the damn correct order for you to end up in the hospital undiagnosed for 10 hours. Because everybody was flippant on their responsibilities, I think, in checking out somebody who presents and making assertions and judgments.

    Bill Gasiamis 11:20

    And all these assumptions are based on no evidence, and then perhaps putting themselves first I need to go home or whatever it is. Or I’m too busy. Or she’s probably taken drugs. I mean, so much bullshit.

    Shaelyn Poisson 11:38

    Yeah, exactly. I know.

    Bill Gasiamis 11:41

    That could have all been avoided. How does that make you feel? Because I’m hearing that and I’m getting frustrated and mad and angry right now. And how did it make you feel?

    Shaelyn Poisson 11:54

    I mean, it was such a whirlwind. Like that whole night, that whole experience, my mom kept saying, like, Somebody, please pinch me, because this can’t be real. This has to be like the worst nightmare humanly possible.

    Shaelyn Poisson 12:07

    Like, it was honestly just hard to believe, even months afterward that this was reality. And this happened to me, and it could have been most of it probably avoidable. If I had gotten the chance to have TPA. Who knows? Honestly, you can’t turn back time and see, but I mean, yeah, it’s upsetting because I was a very active girl, soccer player, and dancer.

    Shaelyn Poisson 12:39

    You know, like, lots of stuff going on in my life. But, on the bright side of things, I took it as a sign to kind of just like, slow down completely, because obviously, can’t handle that kind of stress. Stress is not good for anybody, honestly. But, yeah, I guess I like to look on the bright side of things. So I took it as I needed to slow down and go at a better pace.

    Bill Gasiamis 13:08

    How old are you these days?

    Shaelyn Poisson 13:09

    I’m 24.

    Bill Gasiamis 13:11

    Now, so it’s been a good amount of time that you’ve had to grow really to grow, to learn to live with it, to find ways to continue to live your life. I mean, It’s been a few years. What do you think was the hardest part at 17 for you?

    Bill Gasiamis 13:32

    Because, like I said, life was “normal” for a 17-year-old, and then you’re recovering from hemiplegia. You wake up in the hospital, you can’t walk, and what goes on after that? How do you approach your recovery?

    Shaelyn Poisson 13:50

    Ah, honestly, it was like, I don’t recall, like, thinking anything. A lot of the people surrounding me like the nurses, nurses on like, the floor that I was on was great. In the emergency room, I have other things to say about that.

    Shaelyn Poisson 14:09

    But, yeah, they were great and supportive, and everybody was positive speaking to me, and it was always, oh, you’re going to go through physiotherapy and you’re gonna beat this and recover and you’re going to get back to quote-unquote, normal life.

    Shaelyn Poisson 14:31

    And that’s all I had in my head because that’s all everybody was feeding me. So I was just kind of rolling with the punches and going through the motions of kind of just doing the recovery thing and going to physiotherapy. And so I didn’t have any other thoughts, I guess going through my mind.

    Bill Gasiamis 14:53

    That’s pretty cool. I mean, you were just going with the flow, and the flow was heading towards rehabilitation getting back on your feet recovery getting back into your life. How long did it take before you got back to whatever it was that you were doing before the stroke? I think you were studying, were you?

    Hemiplegia Recovery


    Shaelyn Poisson 15:12
    I was yeah, I never ended up going back to dance. Unfortunately, that was my main goal. And I had because I was working, I was a dance teacher at the dance studio that I had grown up at my whole life.

    Shaelyn Poisson 15:28

    I told my boss, I told her that I would be back in dancing by the end of the years, like recital dance show type thing, which was, I think it was like only five or six months, I was like, yeah, I’ll be back to normal by then I’ll be fine. And I’ll be back to normal. It’s good.

    Shaelyn Poisson 15:45

    But obviously, that didn’t happen. And I was like, Okay, fine. I didn’t meet that goal, but a year, and I’ll be fine. And obviously, strokes are complicated, and everybody’s different. But that didn’t happen. So I’m honestly still just on my road to recovery with that, and I forgot where I was going with that.

    Bill Gasiamis 16:14

    You’re on the road to recovery. So what are you doing these days? You’re 24, 7 years have passed, how are you occupying your day?

    Shaelyn Poisson 16:25

    I honestly focus a lot on Oh, yeah, I was saying that. Like if I went back to what I was doing, I did end up going back to school. Not what I was doing before I tried that. And it wasn’t really for me.

    Shaelyn Poisson 16:43

    So I ended up just going back to school for a quick year program for office administration. And I did some work on that. But I didn’t end up doing much with that I ended up getting married. So I’m living with my husband, we’re living in the States now.

    Shaelyn Poisson 17:13

    I don’t know if I mentioned this, but I’m from Canada. And he’s an emergency nurse now, so I’m just kind of living off of a visa and doing kind of like a housewife thing, I guess. Yeah. So it’s kind of I just kind of these days work on my recovery, go to the gym. That kind of thing.

    Bill Gasiamis 17:40

    Awesome. No, I’m just trying to understand where you’re at because I was similar in that. It’s February for me the 10th anniversary since the first bleed in the brain. And then there were a couple more after that.

    Bill Gasiamis 17:54

    And honestly, I could say that for about, I think for about seven or eight years, I was kind of in no man’s land, I was just in this weird place where I was attempting to do normal life or whatever normal life was.

    Bill Gasiamis 18:12

    And for me, it involved being a husband and a dad and all the usual stuff. And I couldn’t go back to my regular work, I had to do other work. And that was temporary and then I was just going to go through the next phase, whatever that was, but there was a ton and ton of recovery in that seven years that didn’t involve the regular going to rehabilitation type recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 18:44

    It was strange, like it was happening, kind of in my mind and my body and my heart. Like it was a different kind of recovery. And I needed stillness. And I needed to do as little as possible and I needed not to have complications in my life. And then the kind of the switch kind of flipped at around the eight-year mark.

    Bill Gasiamis 19:12

    I kind of felt like, Oh, I’ve gotta go back to this thing that I had in my mind or this thing that I was going to do. And then it happened I was similar to you so I can relate to what you’re saying that there’s no real plan. It’s just about being and getting better and then finding a way to overcome your daily challenges whatever they are.

    Shaelyn Poisson 19:36

    Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I like to say too I was stuck on like, and I hear this a lot honestly like hearing other people who have had strokes. It’s always about trying to get back to the old me and whatever and I like to just kind of think of not that like it’s kind of morbid to say but I like to just kind of think oh the old me is dead like I’m a completely new person now since a stroke.

    Shaelyn Poisson 20:04

    And I have to just accept and adapt. And it’s all about adapting to me, I kind of just feel like I’m taking on this new lifestyle, I guess. And yeah, it’s, you kind of have to just let go of the old view, you can take in pull things from the old you, of course, like, you’re not gonna just completely leave that in the dust. But yeah, you just have to kind of start fresh, almost, it’s kind of like a rebirth type thing.

    Bill Gasiamis 20:38

    Yeah the common words, they’re words that lots of stroke survivors use 100%. And I like the fact your mindset is not stuck in the past, it’s going going-forward mindset. It’s about growth, change, and adapting. And that’s really what it’s all about.

    Bill Gasiamis 20:56

    I mean, even if you haven’t had a stroke, but you’ve had a serious relationship issue with somebody, you know, many years ago, again, it’s adapting, you want to leave behind the part of you in that relationship that acted incorrectly, or that was emotionally distraught by whatever it was that went wrong.

    Bill Gasiamis 21:16

    But then you also want to bring forward with you those lessons and grow and change and evolve. But the same person comes with you, maybe you’re doing different tasks. So for example, you’re not dancing now. But how are you enjoying yourself? How are you occupying? Or feeling that little creative part of yourself?

    Shaelyn Poisson 21:38

    Well, I mean, it is hard because yeah, my creative outlet was always dance and soccer and, like, things like that, but I guess now, I mean, honestly, just in the past, like, I don’t know, how long has it been like six months only.

    Shaelyn Poisson 21:59

    I started a YouTube channel and I kind of just like upload videos on how I’ve adapted as somebody with hemiplegia and how I do like normal day-to-day things with a disability, things like that.

    Shaelyn Poisson 22:14

    So I guess that’s kind of filling my creative outlet right now. I did go through like a makeup phase where I was like, doing makeup as like, kind of a job. And I did makeup on a movie set. So that was kind of like my creative outlet for a while.

    Shaelyn Poisson 22:29

    But yeah, I guess, for creative probably like YouTube and social media and things like that. But for like, I guess, an active outlet instead of doing dance, because I can’t do that anymore. I have gotten into hiking with my husband.

    Shaelyn Poisson 22:47

    Well, we haven’t gotten them in the winter months, because it’s kind of chilly out on the mountain. But there are a lot of mountains where we live. So yeah, we’ve enjoyed climbing mountains.

    Shaelyn Poisson 22:58

    And it’s kind of crazy to do with hemiplegia. It’s really hard. But it’s an accomplishment when I do get through the whole hike. It’s like, ah, another one done. And it feels good to be able to do that. So that’s, I guess, another outlet for me.

    Bill Gasiamis 23:19

    I love that a lot of people get creative after a stroke, and they jump on social media, they share tips and tricks and what’s helping them and that’s how I got creative as well. It’s when I started the podcast, it was in 2015.

    Bill Gasiamis 23:36

    I wasn’t doing a lot of episodes, I was really bad at it or slow. I was all sorts of things. I couldn’t edit it I didn’t know what I was doing. But I was doing it and it was helping me more than it was helping anybody else. So I think at the beginning that might have switched a little bit now.

    Bill Gasiamis 23:53

    But you do share some pretty cool things that even I haven’t considered on your Insta page. And we’ll share all the links to your socials and your YouTube people will be able to get that from the show notes.

    Bill Gasiamis 24:13

    The very first thing that I saw was how you plug in your phone to recharge with Hemiplegia with one hand less, how do you do that? And it’s like, I never considered, that would be driving me bananas not being able to charge my phone, you know?

    Bill Gasiamis 24:36

    I can’t plug it in at the best of times, you know, sometimes the cable goes in wrong or it doesn’t go properly or doesn’t connect properly. It drives me nuts. And you’re you’ve got tips like that and I think that was great, that little video that I saw how to plug in the iPhone, so I’m going to share that as well via the show notes so that people can see that.

    Shaelyn Poisson 24:58

    Awesome thank you.

    Bill Gasiamis 25:00

    What has your feedback been from people who have come across your page?

    Planning Ahead

    Shaelyn Poisson 25:05

    Yeah, honestly, just like, kind of like what you said, like, you wouldn’t think about it. But it is like the little things like day-to-day, little monotonous tasks that you don’t think would be a struggle or anything like that.

    Shaelyn Poisson 25:21

    But I always say like, you have to, whenever I do any task at all, like, even if it’s just getting up to go walk over and grab something, I always kind of just plan out how I’m going to go about doing that, how I’m gonna, when I’m going to grab things like how I should grab things.

    Shaelyn Poisson 25:40

    Because, honestly, you have to kind of plan it out. I don’t know, it’s always been like, something that I had to do, but a lot of people yeah they just say that they’re like, really shocked that, like some of the things that you have to relearn a different kind of movement pattern for or like, rethink how to do.

    Shaelyn Poisson 26:05

    Like, you don’t think of it as somebody maybe without a disability, they are just like, oh, like it’s just a normal task that anybody can probably do. But yeah, a lot of just, like love and support. I’ve gotten I’m really lucky and happy that everybody’s been nice and supportive of everything that I post. So it’s been nice, honestly.

    Bill Gasiamis 26:36

    What’s the hardest thing that you have to do with hemiplegia? What’s the hardest task to accomplish?

    Intro 26:42

    If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you will know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. How long will it take to recover? Will I recover? What things should I avoid in case I make matters worse?

    Intro 26:59

    Doctors will explain things that obviously, you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask. If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you.

    Intro 27:22

    It’s called seven questions to ask your doctor about your stroke. These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition, they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery. Head to the website now, recoveryafterstroke.com, and download the guide. It’s free.

    Shaelyn Poisson 27:46

    I mean, immediately, I want to say just like a kind of like my therapy, my physiotherapy that I do for myself is always gonna be the hardest thing because it’s just aggravating and uncomfortable to have to do things that make you uncomfortable. But the uncomfortable is what’s going to make you better.

    Bill Gasiamis 28:15

    Does that mess with your head? So you have to do something uncomfortable. Is it also painful sometimes?

    Shaelyn Poisson 28:22

    Yes, definitely. can be super painful, honestly, it’s not pleasant usually.

    Bill Gasiamis 28:32

    You gotta think about it, it’s time for me to do my exercises, it’s gonna be uncomfortable, it’s going to be painful, It’s going to be frustrating and annoying and all that sort of stuff. But I have to do it because that’s the right path to recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 28:44

    That’s the only way recovery is going to happen. Do you sometimes have enough and go I’m not doing any of this junk anymore. I’m not doing it anymore, and stop and then do get over it? Like how does that work?

    Shaelyn Poisson 28:56

    I have gone through different stages, like I was doing outpatient therapy at the hospital after I got discharged from being an inpatient. That one I did get discharged from because they ultimately told me that they didn’t know how to further my recovery at that point.

    Shaelyn Poisson 29:14

    I was like, best that they could make me essentially so I moved on to a personal trainer, who’s he’s quadriplegic so he walks with two canes on both of his arms. He’s honestly really amazing.

    Shaelyn Poisson 29:31

    Like his knowledge of paralysis and everything like that. But then I think I eventually got to the point. Like even just working with him where I was like, okay, like this is just getting repetitive and I’m kind of over it. So I did stop doing any kind of physiotherapy even for myself for I think, like a couple of years at least.

    Shaelyn Poisson 30:01

    And then like, it wasn’t until I felt like the beginning of 2021 where I started committing to going into the gym. I think I was going a few times a week at least. And I still do that’s something that I do.

    Breaking 10,000 Barriers to Hemiplegia Recovery


    Shaelyn Poisson 30:23
    But I just actually put out a brand new series on my YouTube channel today was my upload date. And I’m calling it breaking 10,000 barriers. That’s the series. And it’s because I explained in the video, but essentially, I kind of Googled because I was curious if there was a scientific number of repetitions of an exercise that you would have to do before like relearning a neuro-connection neuro-pattern type thing.

    Shaelyn Poisson 30:54

    And I got an answer that was 10,000 repetitions of an exercise, and you’ll relearn it. So I did the math. And if I do 30 repetitions of an exercise per day, I’ll relearn it. So I have several exercises that I do, and I’m doing monthly updates for my series, that’s kind of what I’m doing for that.

    Shaelyn Poisson 31:19

    So I’ve gotten into that at the start of 2022. And there have been some days, since I started January first this year, where I like, well, there’s been a couple of days that I haven’t felt well, either where I’ve been sick, and I’m like, Okay, I’m just not doing it today. I don’t care.

    Shaelyn Poisson 31:39

    But yeah, I, there are some days where it’s just, I don’t want to feel defeated that day by having to do these exercises. And I’d rather just not feel uncomfortable that day. So I’m just not gonna do it.

    Bill Gasiamis 31:55

    It’s 333 days to get to 10,000, by the way, if you do 30 repetitions a day, it’s 333 days that you have to do that.

    Shaelyn Poisson 32:08

    Okay, yeah, I think I rounded up a little bit because it was like 27 points or something. So I just rounded it up to 30. Because I was like, I’m gonna miss some days anyway. So I might as well just round it up to the closest 10 number.

    Bill Gasiamis 32:24

    There is a bit of discussion out there about the 10,000 rule where, you know, to become a great public speaker, you’d have to do 10,000 hours. To become an expert in your field, you know, you have to do 10,000 hours, all these 10,000 hours thing.

    Bill Gasiamis 32:44

    I think it makes you very competent to be able to do 10,000 hours in anything if you do 10,000 hours of reading on just one topic. You become an expert in that topic. But it still allows for more of an opportunity to learn later on.

    Bill Gasiamis 33:02

    But yeah, 10,000 tasks or repetitions it’s a good target. Because when you get to it, it’s gonna be quite an accomplishment regardless. Something to brag about. And to be proud of that. You got there and you persevered. And you’re probably going to learn a lot about yourself because you’re going to have those down days that are not the ones that you just said, I felt tired, or want to feel bad.

    Bill Gasiamis 33:31

    You might have other issues that come up that you start to notice that might be getting in the way of the rest of your life. And you might be going oh, okay, I didn’t know that I was doing that or behaving that way. You’ll get this awareness and you’ll get this wisdom from it.

    Shaelyn Poisson 33:47

    For sure. Yeah. That was another thing that I thought honestly, it’s gonna be a journey. It’s gonna be really hard, but I feel like, Yeah, I’ll probably learn a lot about myself during it.

    Shaelyn Poisson 34:01

    And I think I also said, I forget what the number was, but it was only like 1.7% of people in the US have stated that they have or are living with some type of paralysis. So I was like, well, if I’m that small portion of the population, who am I to not try this challenge because not many people can say that they want to try and defeat the process and I figured it’d be a nice challenge to do.

    Bill Gasiamis 34:39

    Absolutely. And a good story to share and regardless of the outcome, the fact that you’ve gone through that process is going to be a big win anyway like I said, you’ll learn a lot you will achieve something you will get better at something. You will feel better about yourself having gone through that. I mean, there’s so many positives to it. There are no negatives at all.

    Shaelyn Poisson 35:01

    Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I feel like I’ll at least have a little bit of recovery, and it might not be perfect. And all the exercises that I’m doing to regain a specific movement, not all of those are going to be perfect. And I might not even get like, a lot of them. But I’ll still get something out of it. I’m sure. So, yeah, just something to look forward to with that.

    Bill Gasiamis 35:28

    Good on you on the other videos on your YouTube channel. At the moment, you’ve got walking and running. For the first time post-stroke, you’ve got driving with an assistive device, which is cool, because people need to see that that’s a great possibility, wrapping Christmas presents, or one-handed.

    Bill Gasiamis 35:55

    I can’t wrap Christmas presents under normal conditions. They always look messy. You know, when you go to the store and you say to them, can you please wrap my gifts for me? And then you compare those gifts to the ones that you’ve wrapped and yours look terrible?

    Shaelyn Poisson 36:09

    Yeah, they’re always so good at the stores. It’s not even a comparison.

    Bill Gasiamis 36:14

    Yeah, the professionals. They’ve done 10,000 hours.

    Shaelyn Poisson 36:17

    Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

    Bill Gasiamis 36:20

    And we and we only do it for about 30 minutes every Christmas. We’re never gonna get to 10,000 hours. And then you’ve got a how-to type with Hemiplegia one-handed, and, traveling, you’ve got what’s in my carry-on?

    Bill Gasiamis 36:40

    So they’re the ones that I can see right now, but I’m sure there’d be others. So I think it’s gonna be really useful for people in the earliest stages of their recovery with Hemiplegia to be able to have a really good resource of somewhere where they can go. I wonder what she does for this?

    Shaelyn Poisson 37:02

    Yeah, for sure. Yeah, it’s really, what’s the word? I guess I was just excited because I didn’t have something like this. I know, when I first was navigating being hemiplegic, I was sitting in my hospital bed on my phone on YouTube, trying to kind of look up different ways, I would see videos of people tying their shoes with one hand, which I’ve done video on too.

    Shaelyn Poisson 37:33

    But really, that was like, the only thing that people were curious about, there weren’t a lot of one-handed checks. And honestly, not a lot of channels, just specifically dedicated to doing things with one hand. So it wasn’t all in one place type thing.

    Shaelyn Poisson 37:49

    So I thought that I would be a good resource since I’ve been doing it for six years, going on seven in October. I feel like I have some good insight on how to get around it. So I figured it’d be a good idea for me to post videos about it.

    Bill Gasiamis 38:10

    yeah, there’s no better reason to do that. That’s the reason. Women have other skills that they need to get good at, that men don’t have to worry about if they’re hemiplegic women need to put a bra on but men don’t need to do that.

    Bill Gasiamis 38:26

    So I imagined that would be a little bit difficult as well. And I’ve never really understood how women have solved that because I’ve never delved into that. But have you got a video on that just in case any girls are listening that want to access that?

    Shaelyn Poisson 38:44

    I do have a video I think I called it just like dressing myself with Hemiplegia. Yeah, I didn’t specifically do a bra. But I did do like a bikini, like a swimsuit. So I figured you could get the information from that. Essentially, I didn’t want to get into the undergarments. I’ve just felt a little bit uncomfortable with that.

    Bill Gasiamis 39:11

    Fair enough I wouldn’t imagine that you would need to show yourself you might use a mannequin or you might do it at the top of a T-shirt. So you don’t have to show yourself but like, I know where you’re going that’s why it’s a difficult conversation for me to have as well.

    Bill Gasiamis 39:26

    I don’t want to put anyone, you know, under pressure or embarrass anybody. And so I’ve never raised it. But since we’re on the topic of doing things one-handed and you’re a lady, I think many women would appreciate something along the lines of that.

    Bill Gasiamis 39:42

    And I do hear that some undergarments are being developed or have been developed to help people who only can use one hand. I’ve heard that I just don’t know much about it.

    Shaelyn Poisson 39:57

    I don’t I don’t know I guess sports bras are kind of like, easier to put on. I mean, if we’re on the topic of bras, I really just only wait for like the back classic ones, I just kind of do them up without them being on and then you just kind of put them on as a T-shirt, like as you would a T-shirt.

    Shaelyn Poisson 40:20

    So it’s not like a huge workaround, I guess that was one of the first things they taught me when I was in the hospital. My occupational therapist went over that with me, one of the first things she wanted me to dress myself independently.

    Shaelyn Poisson 40:36

    So that was learned very quickly. But yeah, I haven’t heard of what you’re talking about on the one hand, but I’m sure somebody is working on something out there.

    Friends Who Stick Around Hemiplegia Recovery

    Bill Gasiamis 40:55

    What about at 17 your social lives are probably huge, you know, friends, a whole bunch of things going on? How did your friends react to you having a stroke? And how did that impact your relationships?

    Shaelyn Poisson 41:13

    Well, they were coming around a lot in the beginning. That was something that I didn’t get into on my channel, I was going to talk about it, but then I just kind of left it out.

    Shaelyn Poisson 41:28

    But I got the my I have like a decent-sized group of friends. And they did come around in the beginning I think a couple of times. I’m still best friends with the one that I was closest with in that friend group.

    Shaelyn Poisson 41:46

    But essentially, they ended up kind of deciding that I wouldn’t be able to keep up with them. When it came time for us like made plans to go to parties or like going out and things like that.

    Shaelyn Poisson 42:01

    So, yeah, that was not great to hear that I wasn’t included because they didn’t think I could keep up. But, yeah, I’m still best friends with my one really good friend from that group.

    Shaelyn Poisson 42:17

    And I have another one of my best friends. I’ve been friends with her since she was two years old. And I was three years old. So we’ve been good good friends since diapers, literally. So yeah, she’s still very much in my life too. So I have two really good friends. And that’s about it.

    Bill Gasiamis 42:40

    That’s more than enough.

    Shaelyn Poisson 42:42

    Absolutely yeah.

    Bill Gasiamis 42:43

    100 good friends there’s no such thing as that. It doesn’t exist, right? Two close good friends. They’re going to help you get through the dark times the fun times, and you’re going to help them etc. Right?

    Bill Gasiamis 42:54

    That’s all that’s needed. But it’s probably unfortunate, but But it’s what teenagers do anyway, like they find a reason to isolate people for no reason anyway, like, they just do that.

    Bill Gasiamis 43:15

    It’s the age, it’s not being aware of how their behavior is impacting other people. It’s about being selfish and making themselves by putting themselves first and not having the ability to think about, you know, the other person. Did it feel personal and isolated because of it, did it make you feel isolated?

    Shaelyn Poisson 43:39

    Yeah, it was that upset me honestly, when that whole situation happened. I was pretty upset about that. But, I guess, I don’t know how long exactly it took. But, I very quickly became happy with my situation of just having a couple of friends.

    Shaelyn Poisson 44:00

    I wasn’t really into especially since my stroke kind of slowed me down quite a bit. I was kind of happy to just be able to go at my own pace and not kind of feel obligated to have to attend all the parties and go out and everything like that. So I guess Yeah, I ended up just kind of accepting it. And I mean, it was what it was. So yeah, I just kind of accepted it.

    Bill Gasiamis 44:33

    It happens at every age anyway, it doesn’t happen just at 17. And I speak to stroke survivors of every age group. And let me tell you, some friends turn up and some friends don’t turn up and they can’t turn up or they don’t know how to turn up. They don’t know what to say.

    Bill Gasiamis 44:49

    It’s confronting to see somebody who’s had a stroke maybe it’s a problem. It makes them feel uncomfortable or mortal, all these things. There’s a lot of stuff going on. And the ones that don’t end up are probably doing you a really good favor because at least they’re not turning up with negative energy and being uncomfortable, and therefore, all you have to do is just worry about yourself and not worry about them.

    Shaelyn Poisson 45:15

    Yeah, yeah. And honestly, like I had, like I said before, all the support in the world from like, friends and whatnot, I mean, my family more so my family. And yeah, all of my aunts and uncles, and cousins and everybody, they were always just there showing up for me more than anything. So I didn’t feel like I lacked any support or love and anything, so I was good. Get them through that. In that sense. Oh, yeah.

    Bill Gasiamis 45:56

    And how was the family coping? How did they manage with all of the drama that you put them through? I know, you said your mom was the first person to attend after the phone calls. Yes. Yeah. How did she go through the recovery and all the other stuff that had to happen?

    Shaelyn Poisson 46:19

    Oh, man, yeah, that was incredible I probably aged her so many years, because of how stressful that was, I couldn’t even imagine if like my child had a stroke, how I would deal with that.

    Shaelyn Poisson 46:33

    I can’t even imagine what she went through. I know she was incredibly stressed at the time. And I know I was so eager to get out of the hospital and get home. I know, I was bugging my doctor in the hospital for a discharge date so that I could finally get home.

    Shaelyn Poisson 46:55

    I know my mom did not want she wanted me to just stay as long as possible because she wanted me to be able to move around a little bit better so that she wouldn’t have to worry about me if she was at work. And I was home alone and things like that.

    Shaelyn Poisson 47:12

    And there were a few times where like, she had scares like she would come home from work. And I hadn’t been answering my phone because I was in the shower or something like that. I know, because I hadn’t been doing independent showers at that point.

    Shaelyn Poisson 47:31

    And my very first time I just decided I was like, You know what, I’m gonna do my shower completely independent I’m not gonna tell anybody because my mom is gonna rush home and be like, panicked and whatever.

    Shaelyn Poisson 47:41

    So I just did it all by myself. And I didn’t realize she had been calling me and texting me. I think I had my ringer off on my phone or something like that. And so she came like barging in the door. She said she was expecting to see me lying at the bottom of the stairs, like knocked out or something.

    Shaelyn Poisson 47:58

    But yeah, she was like, why didn’t you just tell me you wanted to take a shower by yourself? I would have been a lot better off knowing that that’s what you were doing. But yeah, there were so many times when she was stressed out, I’m sure. And that time is one of them. But yeah. I feel bad for my mom having to go through all that.

    Bill Gasiamis 48:24

    They overdo the caring of the mums and dads, and you almost do have to trick them into letting you get to the next stage without them there. You almost have to I did the same thing.

    Bill Gasiamis 48:38

    I was 37. My parents were way older. Like, I’m a dad already. And I’m also lying and not telling people what I’m doing and how I’m gonna do it, because they they do get in the way because sometimes they over care and they over worry.

    Bill Gasiamis 48:57

    And then I don’t want that stuff to rub off on me that over-caring and the over-worrying. So I go well, I’m just gonna do it anyway, and we’ll see what happens. Just try and be as safe as possible when you’re doing it and just try and make sure that you’ve taken precautions so that it goes well and therefore you don’t worry them even more.

    Rushing Independence

    Shaelyn Poisson 49:24

    Yeah, exactly. Yeah, there was, I know my dad was in and out of the hospital I was into, he was always there helping me too, there was I think, when I was bugging my doctor to like, give me a discharge date so I could go home.

    Shaelyn Poisson 49:43

    The one thing she told me was I have to be able to get to the bathroom, do my thing in the bathroom, and get back to my bed all by myself. And I told my dad that because I knew if I told my mom that she’d be like, no, like, you got to call the nurse and they got to help you but my dad was like, oh, yeah, like, I’ll help you get there.

    Shaelyn Poisson 50:03

    Because I don’t know, he was like, all for me being independent. I don’t know. I don’t know why there was such a difference. But he ended up setting up in the bathroom in my hospital room, a couple of commodes around the toilet area so that when I did get there with my cane, I could just kind of like rest my cane against the door, and then kind of like, hold on to the commodes as I maneuvered my way around to the toilet.

    Shaelyn Poisson 50:33

    And so he did that for me. And I did successfully do that by myself, I think a couple of times or a few times, or something like that. But then there were a handful of times I think I told this in like a video on my YouTube channel, too. I can’t remember. But, there were a handful of times when I ended up falling because I was going in the middle of the night, even by myself.

    Shaelyn Poisson 51:01

    And even during the day, like I was just going by myself and I wasn’t I was kind of rushing because I didn’t want a nurse to walk in and find me going by myself because I wasn’t supposed to do it by myself but I wanted to.

    Shaelyn Poisson 51:16

    And yeah, there were a couple of times when I could have been seriously hurt. And I did fall and it was not great. But I figured it out. And I got myself back in bed by myself. So, yeah, my mom had reason to worry, but I figured it out.

    Bill Gasiamis 51:33

    Your mom’s worried she’s gonna get injured. Your dad’s thinking. I’m not gonna be coming to the hospital to visit her for the rest of our lives. Get her home, get her out of here.

    Shaelyn Poisson 51:43

    Yeah, I feel like that was the separation with the thinking on that.

    Bill Gasiamis 51:48

    And moms thinking of putting her in some more cotton wool, and just protecting her for a little bit longer. She’s frail, she’s fragile, all this stuff. It’s a typical mom thing to do, it’s gorgeous. I relate to that story of getting to the toilet as well because I couldn’t walk for the first month I was in a wheelchair for the first month before rehabilitation kicked in.

    Bill Gasiamis 52:15

    And I was able to get on my feet and be independent again. And I was in the hospital bed and I pressed the button for the nurse to come so that I could go to the toilet. And the nurse wasn’t coming. There was no nurse, they were busy.

    Shaelyn Poisson 52:32

    Same thing, yeah.

    Bill Gasiamis 52:32

    I’m not gonna just let it happen here. I’m gonna go, I’m gonna get there. So I dragged myself into the wheelchair. I robbed myself of the toilet. I tried to pull the door and slide the door open.

    Bill Gasiamis 52:46

    And I got busted by the nurse trying to get up onto the toilet. She’s like, What are you doing? You can’t be doing this. And I was like, well, I have to do this. Because I’ve been pressing the button, no one came and I’ve got to go good to go.

    Bill Gasiamis 53:01

    And them like, you shouldn’t be doing that. I said to him, Look, I said to them, you can either help me get up there, or we can argue about it. Or you could have been cleaning up something even more terrible, like, yeah, so you know, don’t complain, you know, just get me up there.

    Bill Gasiamis 53:18

    Anyway, they got me up there. And then they wouldn’t leave the room. They wouldn’t leave the room. And I was like, no, no, no, no, you have to leave. And they’re like, No, we’re not allowed to leave because it’s dangerous and all that type of thing.

    Bill Gasiamis 53:30

    And I went, uh-uh if you don’t leave, I’m gonna stay here. I’m gonna clench or whatever, I don’t what I was gonna do. I said to him you have to go, you have to go. And then I said, I promise I won’t move, I won’t do anything that I’m not meant to do.

    Bill Gasiamis 53:49

    Just leave close the door, please close the door, please close the door. I begged them. And I told him to stand outside the door. And they did thank God. And then that was kind of my first attempt at being independent without anybody. And it was shocking. It was shocking to have to go through that.

    Bill Gasiamis 54:10

    But I kind of gained their trust after that. Even though I was going to have to ask them to at least support me into the wheelchair, and then to the toilet. And then the rest of it. I was going to do my own so they were going to put me up there but I was going to do the rest on my own.

    Bill Gasiamis 54:27

    And yeah, it was traumatizing for me. You know, I can’t imagine what it’s like for some people who have to recover longer than me and have got to go through all the time.

    Shaelyn Poisson 54:41

    Yeah, I know. That was the worst part. I remember I was because of all the medications that they had you on right in the beginning. I remember I was backed up in the beginning and I hadn’t gotten to the I mean, I went pee and things like that, but I hadn’t gone to the bathroom in I think it was like a couple of days or a few days or something like that.

    Shaelyn Poisson 55:07

    And finally, it was like time and I was like, Okay, I gotta go like right now. And I think oh, yeah, my family they were like, okay yeah, just because they had me in like an adult diaper.

    Shaelyn Poisson 55:22

    Because just in case I were to have an accident or whatever, and I can’t have sensation on half of my bladder and things like that. They were like, oh, yeah, just go in the diaper. And I was like, I am not pooping in a diaper. That’s disgusting. That’s there’s no way.

    Bill Gasiamis 55:40

    If I can avoid it I’m not doing it.

    Shaelyn Poisson 55:44

    Yeah, there’s no way it was not happening. So they ended up having to go get a nurse. And that was the worst. That was the very first time that I went to the bathroom. And yeah, the nurse was standing right next to me, like holding my shoulder.

    Shaelyn Poisson 56:00

    And I was just like farting. And it was like, so embarrassing. And I was like, oh my God, I can’t believe this is my life right now. It’s so like, dehumanizing. I felt like an animal like having to use the bathroom with somebody holding me up. I was like, this is just not gonna work out. I gotta figure something else out here. But yeah, shortly after that. I don’t recommend having a stroke to anybody. It’s not fun.

    Bill Gasiamis 56:33

    I mean what are you supposed to talk to them about while you’re in the middle of doing farts.

    Medical Professionals


    Shaelyn Poisson 56:37
    I know, I just kept apologizing. I’m like, I’m sorry. And she’s like, don’t worry about it. I deal with it all the time. And I was like, no, like, I’m so embarrassed, I’m so sorry that you’re listening to this and smelling this.

    Bill Gasiamis 56:54

    They are professionals, they’re amazing. The nurses and the doctors, mostly the nurses. I had amazing nurses. I had the most amazing male nurse. Oh my god, he was just a next-level amazing guy.

    Bill Gasiamis 57:07

    He was the one that was in my recovery ward after surgery. My god, he was just all over, all over me. Like a rash. There was nothing that he didn’t know, that was happening to me that he wasn’t aware of and that he hadn’t noted. And he got one of the doctors in trouble because the doctor didn’t take action on what he requested.

    Bill Gasiamis 57:32

    He requested blood results and all this kind of stuff. And the doctor didn’t take action on it. And then my surgeon who came to visit me the next day, had a meeting with the doctor and the nurse at my bedside.

    Shaelyn Poisson 57:47

    Oh my god.

    Bill Gasiamis 57:48

    And she was just telling off this doctor. She was just having a go at him saying to him, you know, I can’t believe that you have a nurse here who has experience and knows what they’re doing and has asked you for certain results because he’s noticed certain things and you haven’t done anything about it.

    Bill Gasiamis 58:07

    How can you not have done anything about it? It was just wow like I hit the jackpot with that guy, I tell you. So they’re amazing people they put up with so much he stripped me naked because I had a temperature he covered me with ice.

    Bill Gasiamis 58:25

    He did you name it every procedure that you could imagine to keep the temperature down and to keep what he thought was happening was infection and all that kind of stuff. And he wanted to get to the bottom of it.

    Bill Gasiamis 58:38

    And, it’s that whole it’s that mindset that we spoke about that the doctors didn’t have for you when you got there first was he didn’t make any assumptions. He just decided that what we need is to get answers to all these things. And these are the things that need to be done.

    Bill Gasiamis 58:56

    But the doctor he was dealing with was making assumptions. And he wasn’t taking the word of the nurse. And maybe he thought he was smarter or better or whatever. I don’t know what maybe he was having a bad day. But it’s a lot to learn from that thing.

    Bill Gasiamis 59:14

    You know, you’ve got a person in hospital, they’re a patient. You have to assume that they’re unwell. And even if it is drugs, you have to assume that the drugs have made them unwell. And then life is at risk. Instead of assuming they’re on drugs. They’ll get over.

    Shaelyn Poisson 59:30

    Yeah, and that was the main thing too. Like, I did arrive at the hospital. It’s like okay, I wasn’t on drugs or drunk or anything like that. I was underage. So obviously not but regardless, if I was like, I’m still a patient, I’m still seeking help.

    Shaelyn Poisson 59:46

    You have to see the clear symptoms in front of you and make a diagnosis upon seeing that like, it’s just the craziest thing because I was showing complete left-side paralysis.

    Shaelyn Poisson 1:00:00

    Half my mouth was paralyzed half my face like everything was paralyzed on my left side and the vomiting, just everything added up. It was a stroke, right? So it just, yeah. It’s nice, though, that you had that nurse as an advocate for you.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:18

    That’s exactly what he was. It’s the best way to describe him. He was amazing. So, tell me about your husband. How long have you been married?

    Shaelyn Poisson 1:00:30

    Not very long. We just got married. March? May?

    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:38

    You’ve already forgotten your wedding anniversary, congratulations.

    Shaelyn Poisson 1:00:43

    May 2021. So just it’s coming on a year.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:47

    All right, just to show you how I’m better than you today is my wedding anniversary. The 28th of January is my wedding anniversary. And this year, we’ve been married for 26 years. So that’s how you’re supposed to say it to not get in trouble with your spouse.

    Shaelyn Poisson 1:01:09

    Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh. That’s so coincidental that it’s your wedding anniversary,

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:17

    And you can’t remember yours. Oh, my gosh, is it the stroke? You blame the stroke.

    Shaelyn Poisson 1:01:23

    I do remember it. I just always mix up March and May for some reason. Honestly, before this stroke those two months for some reason you couldn’t make me decipher them. I don’t know why, but May 10, 2021.

    Dating with Hemiplegia

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:45

    It worked out beautifully. Was it difficult to date? Considering that you had hemiplegia? And you had to deal with all of that complicated version of dating, which was different from “normal” dating?

    Shaelyn Poisson 1:02:04

    Yeah, absolutely. I had quite my boat of strange people and people that just didn’t accept, like, me being disabled and things like that. Luckily, I came across Brandon and he was a nursing student when we met at the university that we were both at.

    Shaelyn Poisson 1:02:27

    Honestly, for people who had strokes, I feel like nurses are the best partners because they just understand everything. They know all the terminology. They know how to work with you and the Yeah, he’s honestly great about it.

    Shaelyn Poisson 1:02:43

    He helps me with my recovery and my physiotherapy sometimes if I need help, and anything honestly, if I need him to I like, whenever I get new shoes or anything like that, he pre-ties them for me. So he’s honestly amazing and so helpful. And I couldn’t have asked for somebody better. So yeah, they’re amazing people. I love nurses.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:08

    Sounds like you guys hit the jackpot.

    Shaelyn Poisson 1:03:10

    Yeah, he’s happy too I hope.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:16

    Yeah, I love the nurses. I love that approach. Especially well, because I can’t relate to nurses at all, but other than the way that I’ve been supported by them, they’re amazing. And I know that females as nurses have that nurturing side over men, you know, it’s usually associated with motherhood, and, you know, being, you know, nurturing and that usual kind of stuff.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:40

    But when you get a male nurse, who’s nurturing and caring, and that like, it’s a completely different thing. Just for me. It was like, first, that nurse was kind of like, yeah, you know, like, you’re me, you a dude, you know, and all this kind of stuff.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:59

    And it’s like, Oh, my God, and then you’re so caring and kind and compassionate and supportive. And it’s like, Whoa, what a guy. Just amazing. I had a bit of a man crush on him because I was so well treated, and he was on my side and he just, you know, and that’s kind of the sense I get when you tell me about your husband. It’s like, you know, people would think he’s a hero.

    Shaelyn Poisson 1:04:25

    Oh yeah. Everybody at the hospital he works at just loves him. He’s the most chill and like, calm guy, but like, just so amazing and helpful and nurturing. He’s just amazing. So yeah, he’s one of those. Sorry, that was my notification. My mom texted me. Yeah, he’s one of those one-of-a-kind guys.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:00

    Fabulous. Well, I appreciate you coming on to the podcast. I enjoyed our chat. Thank you so much for being here. You’re doing great work. And if people want to find you, I will share the links anyway. But if they’re listening, and they haven’t had a chance to look at the show notes if people wanted to find you on Instagram, where would they do that? What is your Instagram handle?

    Shaelyn Poisson 1:05:25

    It’s @shaethestrokesurvivor. Instead of the shea butter, it’s different.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:37

    And the YouTube Channel?

    Shaelyn Poisson 1:05:41

    You can honestly just find me by typing in my first name Shaelyn. So yeah, I pretty much pop up if you just type in Shaelyn I guess or stroke survivor I’m sure comes up to I’m not sure.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:58

    Yep, no worries. And if you can’t find it, well, then just head to the show notes on the recoveryafterstroke.com website and you’ll be able to see it there. Thank you so much for being on the podcast.

    Shaelyn Poisson 1:06:09

    Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. I had so much fun. This is an amazing thing that you’re doing here. And I appreciate that you have these resources for people who need some insight and guidance after having a stroke. So thank you.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:06:24

    My pleasure. I hope you enjoyed this episode and learned something. Please comment, like, or share, and give the episode a thumbs up. Every interaction with the show online helps the podcast to rank better and therefore be found easily by stroke survivors from all around the world.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:06:42

    And hopefully, that will help them on the path to their recovery. And it’ll might make their recovery a little easier, because they’ll find what you were looking for. Those very early stages of stroke recovery might even make a massive difference for the caregivers. So if you can leave the show a five-star review, thumbs up, leave a comment. Anything you can do will make a massive difference. Thank you so much for listening.

    Intro 1:07:07

    Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals’ opinions and treatment protocols disgusting any podcast or the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed.

    Intro 1:07:25

    All content on this website at any linked blog, podcast, or video material controlled by this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis the content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing.

    Intro 1:07:41

    It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice. The information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances or health objectives did not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional.

    Intro 1:08:02

    Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional your doctor or your rehabilitation program based on our content if you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition, please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional if you are experiencing a health emergency or think you might be call triple zero if in Australia or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance or go to the nearest hospital emergency department.

    Intro 1:08:26

    Medical information changes constantly. At the same time, we aim to provide current quality information in our content. We do not provide any guarantees and assume no legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, currency, or completeness of the content. If you choose to rely on any information within our content, you do so solely at your own risk. We are careful with the links we provide however third-party links from our website are followed at your own risk and we are not responsible for any information you find there.

    The post Hemiplegia Recovery – Shaelyn Poisson appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

    1 hr 10 min
  • Spontaneous Vertebral Artery Dissection Caused A Stroke – Frank Mills

    Frank Mills experienced a vertebral artery dissection while he was having a shower. He walked into the emergency room and told the nurses he was having a stroke.

    Wikipedia

    Highlights:

    01:49 Introduction

    04:58 Frank Mills Stroke
    09:56 The Dark Moments
    15:37 Missed Opportunity
    23:10 Importance of Being In Good Shape
    26:54 Sensory Overload
    31:19 Giving Up Sugar
    37:30 Music Box Dancer
    48:23 Frank’s Music Career
    56:57 Living A Full Life
    1:01:57 Post-stroke Fatigue

    Transcription:

    Frank Mills 0:00

    I was diagnosed with prediabetes about seven years ago and gave up sugar. The doctor said to me, well, you’ve got a few choices here, nobody gives up sugar. So we’ll put you on a pill.

    Frank Mills 0:11

    I said I’m not a pill guy. Let me try giving up sugar. I weighed 250 pounds at that time. And she said, okay, how long do you want to do this? So I said, let’s try a month. If nothing happens, fine.

    Frank Mills 0:27

    Well, within a month, I’d lost 13 pounds. And I was feeling great. I didn’t have any of the ups and downs of what is it when you have that sugar problem. hypoglycemia? I didn’t have any of that anymore. Long story short, I lost 47 pounds in six months, and I’ve never felt better, never looked back, and don’t eat sugar.

    Intro 0:52

    This is the recovery after stroke podcast, with Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after a stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05

    Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Recovery after Stroke podcast. Now recently, Spotify released a new feature that allows people to write their favorite shows similar to how the Apple podcast app allows it.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:19

    If you think this show deserves it, I’d love it if you left a five-star review. This will help the show rank better on search engines, and help newly diagnosed stroke survivors find the show, and therefore hopefully you could make their life a little better on the way to recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:36

    So go along to your favorite app, and share what the podcast means to you. It really will make a huge difference. And I would appreciate it. Now thanks so much for tuning in to today’s episode.

    Introduction


    Bill Gasiamis 1:49
    This is episode 179. And my guest today is Frank Mills, the world-famous musician who amongst other things, wrote the popular piano track Music Box Dancer, Frank Mills, welcome to the podcast.

    Frank Mills 2:05

    Nice to see you, Bill.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:06

    Nice to see you. Thank you so much for being here. I appreciate it.

    Frank Mills 2:11

    It’s a pleasure.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:13

    Frank, tell me a little bit about what happened to you.

    Frank Mills 2:15

    Well, it was November 28, just a little bit over a year ago. And I was in the shower one morning. Never had any inkling about any of this. Eat well, get lots of exercise, outdoors farmer type guy, play the piano for a living.

    Frank Mills 2:36

    That’s over, I retired in 2018. So it wasn’t a question of a major, major, major interruption. But on that morning, I remember in the shower, all of a sudden my legs gave out from under me.

    Frank Mills 2:51

    And I sort of felt I was about to plop onto the shower floor, which is never good at any age. I’m 78 at the time, I’m now 79. And I thought this was good. So I quickly called Brenda who just rescued me with this podcast, my technician and able wife, and head nurse.

    Frank Mills 3:13

    And I just said to her, I’m having a stroke. I know it. So we got to get to the hospital right now. So we made it to the car, and I could walk. The stroke thing was sort of brief. And I was able to walk to the car, all be it very nauseous and not feeling normal at all.

    Frank Mills 3:34

    And hence the decision that I thought I was having a stroke it didn’t make any sense or anything else it was so sudden. We got to the emergency ward in the hospital and I walked in quite normally. And I just said to the receptionist in the hospital at the emergency ward I’m having a stroke.

    Frank Mills 3:55

    And she pressed this button and two guys appeared and put me on a stretcher and up we went and never saw Brenda for three days because of COVID. She wasn’t allowed in the hospital. But she had the presence of mind to bring my cell phone to the nurse at the reception in the hospital, which made the whole thing a little easier.

    Frank Mills 4:13

    But that’s briefly what happened. And I had no real inkling that my prognosis was correct in the first place until the nurse sent a doctor with the boys who put me in the stretcher and up I went and he knew in one minute I was having a stroke. So it wasn’t a bad diagnosis on my part, but I guess the suddenness of it was what surprised me, and the lack of symptoms beforehand was just nothing.

    Bill Gasiamis 4:41

    Any of the typical symptoms, nothing at all? And you just started to feel unwell? Now what kind of stroke was it? Was it an ischemic stroke?

    Frank Mills 4:52

    Well, no, it was a spontaneous vertebral arterial stroke. Oh, you mean the stroke itself?

    Frank Mills Stroke

    Bill Gasiamis 4:58

    Yeah, was it a clot that occurred?

    Frank Mills 5:01

    Well, the clot occurred, they don’t quite know that two interesting things came out of this, which I suppose comes out of most strokes. One of them was that they did a CT scan on me instantly when I wasn’t in the hospital an hour and they did that.

    Frank Mills 5:19

    And this might clarify your question. When they looked at it, the doctor came down. And he told me that, although there was a bit of a shadow, they couldn’t see everything perfectly clearly he said your brain is very clear of cholesterol. And it had nothing to do with that.

    Frank Mills 5:36

    We think it’s probably some matter that got released from the artery when it was dissected. And the dissection caused some, I mean, this is all on a micro level I guess. A few cells would have done it. And it was a pons stroke.

    Frank Mills 6:01

    And I guess in a sense, he said, he kept saying to me you’re a very lucky man because this could have been a lot worse. And as that proved to be true. I’m feeling well, these days. You know, there, we can talk about the hangovers. But really, I’m lucky to be where I’m at.

    Frank Mills 6:21

    And I have read a lot of your notes and information. Thank you. And listen to a few of your podcasts which I enjoy. And I guess I’ll let you ask the questions because it was well, the doctor, the neurologist that took care of me, and a nice guy, and he sort of laughed a bit.

    Frank Mills 6:43

    And I thought, what’s so funny? And he said, Well, you just got lumberman’s disease, and I said lumberjack’s disease. What’s that? He said, well, as you know, here in Vermont, the main industry other than tourism is wood, and lumbering and logging and boards and plywood and all that.

    Frank Mills 7:01

    And he said, a lot of guys working in the lumber industry, and particularly loggers who cut trees down, get these arterial dissections because they will be looking up at the top of a tree, and down at the bottom of the base of the tree where they’re going to cut it probably 20 or 30 times during the felling of one tree.

    Frank Mills 7:25

    And this might go on 50 times during the day. And he said it just puts an awful lot of stress and friction on those arteries that tuck onto your skull up in that area that come out of the spinal column and tuck under there.

    Frank Mills 7:44

    And he said the best way I can describe your stroke is to say that you’ve been strangled, then you survive. It’s lovely, isn’t it? But in hindsight, it’s sort of a good way of putting it. These arteries are not as strong as I thought they were.

    Frank Mills 8:02

    And they tend to be very flexible, and multi-layered. So you know that’s all I could gather out of it. And I was only in the hospital for two days, and they let me go home and then the dark wall hit when I got home, you know.

    Bill Gasiamis 8:19

    It’s really lovely to speak to somebody who, “got away with it”. Because very often the majority of the people that I’ve had on the podcast’ve had, firstly, a stroke, secondly, some kind of vertebral artery dissection or carotid artery dissection, yet, they usually don’t get so lucky.

    Bill Gasiamis 8:41

    And perhaps the dissection is more dramatic, and it causes more problems and therefore creates a more serious stroke, and now all strokes serious, the fact that you’ve had a stroke, that’s serious, but the fact that you had a very small amount of time between the time that it happened and then you acted and went to hospital A.

    Bill Gasiamis 9:08

    And B, that the size of the dissection and the small particles, for example, that they released meant the brain wasn’t starved of oxygen for an extended period was just a small interruption and therefore was able to come back but even you who got away with it so well, you just even mentioned that you had dark times. So what were they like when you came home from the hospital three days later what was going on?

    Frank Mills 9:40

    Well, that’s the big one that I think everybody having a stroke goes through and I had done very well at the hospital I was up and about they were walking me down the hall and the corridor is the same old stuff and I was having a great old time with the nurses.

    Frank Mills Stroke Dark Moments

    Frank Mills 9:56

    I mean it was just almost normal. Although there was this looming thing, when I was on my own, it was a little different going to the washroom. And in the hospital, there was a little less confidence there.

    Frank Mills 10:12

    And on Monday morning when the doctor came because this happened on a Saturday morning and Monday morning, and the doctor came in, he said, we’re gonna let you go home. But he said, I caution you. You’re doing very well right now. But he said, when you go home, you may have some dark moments.

    Frank Mills 10:29

    And I sort of wondered, what’s this supposed to be looking for? And he said, stairs, in particular, are going to give you trouble because your balance is off, your eyesight seems to be good.

    Frank Mills 10:43

    And most of the symptoms that are normal strokes were there. They were constantly taking tests by movements of my toes, my feet, my hands, my arms, my ears, my sight, my smell, my hearing, and everything else, and they’re all quite good.

    Frank Mills 11:02

    So I left the hospital in a wheelchair down to the car, and my wife drove me home. And I got to the home and we walked and I got to the stairs I’ve never seen stairs in five days now. And I looked at the stairs, and I just burst into tears, I sat down, and I thought there’s no way I can get up here, there are only four stairs to go up.

    Frank Mills 11:34

    And they were just I’ ‘ve never seen that before of course since the stroke. They didn’t have them in the hospital. He warned me about this. And I thought so I sat on my backside and bumped up the steps. And that was okay, I went to the washroom and then came spruced up a little bit.

    Frank Mills 11:57

    And then I came to the stairs again to go down where I could sit and relax with a cup of tea or something. And I froze, I just didn’t know what to do. I didn’t have any idea what to do. I just did whatever walking I had done, I’d forgotten.

    Frank Mills 12:18

    Whatever going down steps I thought about then nothing. And I sat down on my backside again I think is the only way I’m gonna get down these stairs, and I burst into tears.

    Frank Mills 12:28

    And I remember saying to Brenda, you know if this is the way life is going to be for the rest of my life. I’m not so sure I want to live it. Because at that time, it just seemed all the walls caved in.

    Frank Mills 12:40

    Everything just caved in. It was my one dark moment, which I’m sure everybody who had a stroke goes through especially if you’ve been hurt. It wasn’t that bad. You know, but you don’t realize that at the time, you don’t know.

    Bill Gasiamis 12:55

    Yeah, it’s the worst possible situation. You can’t walk up and down stairs and you’ve got all the rest of your faculties. But you can’t do that. You remind me of my dad, he’s 79 I think as well. And he had knee surgery Frank, which meant that he had to go through two or three months of rehabilitation.

    Bill Gasiamis 13:18

    He’s a heavy guy as well. And that two or three months, I can honestly tell you that he was depressed because he wasn’t able to get around now. He’s been Touchwood he’s been well his entire life. I’ve never known him to be unwell.

    Bill Gasiamis 13:21

    And I’m nearly 50 years old. So I’ve known the guy a long time. And these three months were enough to spiral him out of his regular state of, you know, being generally upbeat and happy-go-lucky to being difficult to shift from, you know, these sort of dark thoughts that he had in his head, and it was just knee surgery.

    Bill Gasiamis 14:05

    He was always going to get better from it. It was always going to work. It just needed him to be on his bum for a little bit of time. But it was strange how quickly he got there. So is that unlike you as well?

    Bill Gasiamis 14:19

    Normally are you upbeat do you normally have any concerns about being so dramatic about life that if it’s going to be like this, then it’s over? Like is it that dramatic has been before?

    Frank Mills 14:35

    No, never before, well, maybe once before but that was years ago when I was under some psychiatric care for a while. For some issues, I had as both my parents died when I was young.

    Frank Mills 14:50

    So that made my upbringing difficult there were some moments in my life that that situation after I was about 10 years of age due to medical problems, and my family became dysfunctional.

    Frank Mills 14:59

    And so I was really on my own as a young man and without guidance. So there were some psychiatric, mind you I’m a great believer in psychiatry I found a psychiatrist who was just a super guy to begin with and he understood my problems.

    Frank Mills 15:28

    And we solved them together and he said to me you know you need six months and you’ll be feeling a lot better. Well, that’s the only dark moment I ever had until the stroke.

    Missed Opportunity After Frank Mills Stroke

    Bill Gasiamis 15:37

    I feel like, do you feel like the doctors of the hospital let you down? They told you that you were going to have trouble with stairs, but yet, there was no rehabilitation before you went home. Do you think there was something missed there? Was there an opportunity to help you that got missed?

    Frank Mills 15:56

    Well, I think there were two things. I think that part of what you’re saying is true. If I’d had three more days at the hospital, maybe we would have found a flight of stairs somewhere and done it.

    Frank Mills 16:11

    So maybe I was released a little bit prematurely. I’ve always had this chameleon-like effect on people that oh, don’t worry about Frank, you know, he’s fine. Look at him he’s great he’s out there on the farm and doing lumbering and still back chopping firewood again, and milking the cows and all the rest of it.

    Frank Mills 16:30

    And so I wouldn’t want to blame anybody if there’d been a lot more time and you know, hospitals today beds are not available. And yeah. So I don’t think there was anything that could have been done other than the fact that I guess I didn’t take it seriously enough when they said stairs are going to be an issue.

    Frank Mills 16:58

    Oh, yeah, sure. stairs, stairs, trees, hills, who cares, you know, get on with it mills. And so that was the issue and Brenda, of course burst out into tears on the stairs, bawling her eyes out.

    Frank Mills 17:12

    And I finally said enough of this stuff. Let’s have a cup of tea. So that ended we got down the stairs, sat on the sofa in the living room by the fire had a cup of tea. And I went to bed I guess, tired is the more right word.

    Frank Mills 17:31

    Woke up the next morning. And the whole attitude had changed. Of course, I love mornings I love waking up, especially at 79 that’s a major accomplishment. Every morning, wee I’m alive again for another day. It’s not all that bad. But that’s kind of the scenario you know, cuz I have a pretty good sense of humor, which always sees me through these things.

    Frank Mills 17:54

    Anyway, I said to Brenda, we’re gonna beat this, this is ridiculous. So we started going for walks. And then the first walk was out to the balcony, which is only about 10 feet.

    Frank Mills 18:08

    But I had a walker and a cane and whatever I needed the post-operative care or wrong word, perhaps post-stroke care was excellent here, the facilities in Vermont. At the local hospital, especially I had six weeks of intensive rehabilitation and muscular that I had the three things that the.

    Intro 18:38

    If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you will know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. Like now How long will it take to recover? Will I recover? What things should I avoid? In case I make matters worse, and doctors will explain things that, you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask.

    Intro 19:02

    If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation. Stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you it’s called Seven Questions to Ask Your Doctor about Your Stroke.

    Intro 19:21

    These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke. They’ll not only help you better understand your condition. They’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery head to the website now recovery after stroke.com and download the guide it’s free

    Frank Mills 19:40

    The eyes the muscles that was the other one that speech because my speech was a bit slurry you know that was nothing to me. Okay. My speech is slurry the doctors had said in your case you’ll probably it may take about a year but you’re going to be living a normal life in two or three months.

    Frank Mills 20:03

    So that spurred me on a bit. But it was the walks with Brenda, that really, it’s we live in a very idyllic setting here. It’s in the mountains of the Green Mountains of Vermont, where there are lots of cows and farms.

    Frank Mills 20:18

    And it’s a very bucolic sort of setting and, and a lovely place to be older than younger, I think. But that’s being honest. So we started our walks. And the first walk, I remember, it was down the balcony a couple of times, you know, and I thought, Oh, the fresh air and the scenery.

    Frank Mills 20:21

    And, gosh, this was getting slowly getting back to where I started. And that when I celebrate, we both took a walk on November 28th, down to the Sugar House, which is about half a mile.

    Frank Mills 20:37

    And back here, and we took the long route, which is what we called the long route when I was progressing through my post-operative care, or post-stroke care is the right word. And, we came didn’t stop down there, we marched right back and just said, you know, it’s been a good year, I can do this and it’s happened.

    Frank Mills 21:11

    And so we went from that few steps on the porch to, oh, a few more steps around the house and then down to the barn. That was a big one that was about 100 feet away. And then a couple of days, I was doing that with ease. And then we push that to go the garden and we have a drive-in driveway thing.

    Frank Mills 21:32

    So doing that circle, that’s about 500 feet, I guess. And it just went on and on and on until we finally went down to the sugar house. And after several stops at times, but a year later, I could have probably jogged it if I’d wanted to.

    Frank Mills 21:48

    If I had been forced to I probably could have jogged down to that place and back again, one year later. So I felt pretty good about life. There are some hangovers, however, and we can talk about those. I’m taking up more of your time here. So you have some questions I’m sure.

    Bill Gasiamis 22:07

    I do. I do. But that’s okay. All the stuff that you’re saying is relevant. And it’s really important for people to hear. What’s interesting is that at 79, you’ve probably known people before you friends, family, acquaintances that have had more dramatic strokes would you have come across somebody before?

    Frank Mills 22:27

    Many times past, I’ve probably had three friends who passed because of a stroke. And they were the typical minor strokes, a couple of minor strokes, then a more serious one. And then finally they get the big one. And the family decides to pull the plug now that that’s the worst-case scenario.

    Frank Mills 22:49

    But that happened over probably three or four years. And looking back at all of them, there was a lot of drinking a lot of bad diet, not much exercise. It’s the old story. I go to the gym three times a week. And I’ve been doing that since June and love it.

    Importance of Being In Good Shape

    Frank Mills 23:10

    And I believe in it. I think you know, if anything you were talking to a fellow named Molter, I think a few weeks ago in your podcast, and he mentioned that. If you’re in good shape, when you start chances are you’ll weather the storm better than if you’re not in good shape.

    Bill Gasiamis 23:35

    Steve Molter yeah he’s similar age to me. He’s probably in his mid-40s. And he had a spontaneous vertebral artery dissection as well. And that’s the whole point of it. It’s like smoking and drinking are things that we do because for some reason we think they bring us good experiences, and pleasure.

    Bill Gasiamis 23:58

    I’m not sure if I was one of those people. But what they’re doing as well, is this slowly increasing the speed at which arteries deteriorate. And yeah, and then that means when you have a small dissection that could become very catastrophic, much quicker.

    Bill Gasiamis 24:17

    So you’re in the best position to have a dissection if you’ve always been a nonsmoker. If you’ve always been a nondrinker. And I’m not talking about one drink a day or one wine a day.

    Bill Gasiamis 24:30

    And if you’ve been fit in well, because your baseline is much, much better so that you’ve got a head start on recovery because you’ve always been well, so you’ve always been unknowingly preparing for a moment when ill health might be around the corner and that does serve people well.

    Bill Gasiamis 24:51

    And I suppose the people who I’ve found that have had a stroke and they’ve been really fit and really Well, sometimes will complain, they’ll say, what was the point of it all, you know, I went to all this effort and look, I still had a stroke. Well, life doesn’t miss out on you, because you’ve been to the gym regularly, it still happens to you.

    Bill Gasiamis 25:15

    But you’ve done a lot of the preventative work, and that has held you in good stead. So that’s important. So even though your friends had, or the people that you’ve known how to trick you still didn’t take it seriously for yourself. It’s like, this can’t happen to me. This is, you know, I’m Frank Mills, like, I do all these things. These things don’t happen to me. Is that true? Or is that different In your mind?

    Frank Mills 25:43

    think the difference difference is in the word spontaneous. And you were the first one who used that they didn’t call it that. In the hospital where I was, it was just called a vertebral artery dissection, which was already three words too big for me to comprehend with all the doctors running around.

    Frank Mills 26:05

    But yeah, I think being fit. Farm Life has been good for me. In many senses. We don’t drink a lot. I have a beer once in a while. A Scotch now and then. No, I’m not a drinker. Smoke, I don’t smoke. I have a cigar now. And then I can’t stand it nearly I’d be sick as a dog if I inhale that cigar.

    Frank Mills 26:28

    So it’s just the pleasure of the smoke and sitting or relaxing for an hour because you don’t get much time to relax in this atmosphere. It’s all fresh air and hard work, you know, which is great for us. I think the sedentary city life is not good for us in the sense that physically, and mentally it’s probably better for us more stimulation. No, maybe.

    Sensory Overload

    Bill Gasiamis 27:01

    I’d say no, it’s overstimulation, Frank, you know, it’s I think about city life. For me, especially since my stroke. And now my brain is sensitive to being overstimulated. You know, too many cars on the road, too many noises, too many bright lights at night, too much of artificial stuff that’s happening around us that we think is normal overstimulates the brain and it’s like, no, this is too much.

    Bill Gasiamis 27:26

    I enjoy my best time is usually before I go to bed, I go lie down, I try and get in there. Before my wife comes to bed. I try and get in for about half an hour, 45 minutes with as little noise as possible. And as dim light as possible. Just to unwind my brain from all of the overstimulation of things.

    Bill Gasiamis 27:50

    And I do prefer being out in the, we’ll call it the countryside, where there’s a lot of different versions, different colors of green, there’s blue, there’s gray, there are all the different colors of nature, and there’s not a lot of noise, and there’s just you hear you know, the trees and the wind.

    Bill Gasiamis 28:13

    And you can see far into the distance rather than the short distances. Like for me, that has always felt like home and my wife says the same thing about the beach. For me, it’s it’s the hills in the country.

    Bill Gasiamis 28:26

    So city life is exceedingly becoming more detrimental to our health, well being mental health as well. But because it’s it’s it’s a life that is I think we were living it because other people are making us live in the city. Work is there. Then we go into offices.

    Bill Gasiamis 28:53

    You know, we’re doing a lot of things that we prefer not to be doing but we’re stuck in this rut of mortgage and, and bills and school fees and two cars and all this junk, right? That describes me before the show guy was a mess before the stroke. I’ve never been better since the stroke and my physical symptoms are daily.

    Bill Gasiamis 29:17

    It’s not like I’ve been able to recover from my physical symptoms but I’ve never felt healthier because I’ve even though I still live in the city withdrawn from the over from the commitment to doing things that overstimulate me and I’m becoming aware of it.

    Bill Gasiamis 29:34

    So being sedentary makes me feel unwell. So in COVID in Melbourne, Victoria Australia, where I live, the lockdowns have been the longest we’ve had the longest lockdowns anybody. And that forces you to be at home and on your butt for a long, long time.

    Bill Gasiamis 29:53

    That was harder for me than actually going through the stroke. Stroke Rehabilitation, and I had a pretty rough because I had to learn how to walk again and I had to learn how to use my arm again. And I had three strokes over three years and brain surgery.

    Bill Gasiamis 30:12

    So it’s not like I had an easy run with a stroke. But the lockdowns have been harder on my psyche, and my emotional well-being than the stroke. So, I envy it. I don’t have envy. But if I have to use a word, like, I enjoy people who live in the spaces where you where you live, you know.

    Frank Mills 30:33

    Yeah, well, of course. You know, the only thing we’ve been able to look at for the last 18 months are the cows, you know, we only got nine and they’ve gone to be bred so we won’t see them till May again.

    Frank Mills 30:47

    So it’s a nice life out here in the country. But again, when you get back to the possibility of stroke and the spontaneity of the dissection. I never knew what a dissection was until I had a stroke. And I knew it. I was not prepared for that. Because the friends I had lost to stroke I suspected had high cholesterol levels.

    Giving Up Sugar

    Frank Mills 31:19

    Their blood was probably full of fat and sugar. I was diagnosed with prediabetes about seven years ago and gave up sugar. The doctor said to me, Well, you’ve got a few choices here. Nobody gives up sugar. So we’ll put you on a pill I die. I’m not a pill guy. Let me try giving up sugar. I weighed 250 pounds at that time.

    Frank Mills 31:45

    And she said, Okay, how long do you want to do this? Well, I said, let’s try it a month. If nothing happens, fine. Well, within a month, I’d lost 13 pounds. And I was feeling great. I didn’t have any ups and downs what is it when you have that sugar problem? hypoglycemia?

    Frank Mills 32:05

    I didn’t have any of that anymore. Long story short, I lost 47 pounds in six months. And I’ve never felt better, never looked back, and don’t eat sugar. I mean, I’ll have the odd cookie if it’s there, but I’m very fastidious about cookies and booze. So I stay away from both of them. Not that the latter was ever a problem.

    Frank Mills 32:28

    But one thing that I mentioned that the stroke did for me was they gave me a few CT scans, they did two or three of them. By the time I was out of there for three days. And the doctor said you will never get a stroke caused by cholesterol, your brain is as clean as a whistle.

    Frank Mills 32:45

    And that they had looked at every aspect of it so that there was a difference to me Bill between the dissection type of stroke, which is caused really, the doctor had said, you know, a lot of guys have dissections and don’t know they had them. He said they get better and forget about it.

    Frank Mills 33:04

    They may have a headache or something like that. But I of course I didn’t have that I did have a stroke. But I think they’re very different. Medically speaking when you have a stroke that’s caused by arterial blockage, as opposed to dissection, which can be it can also be equally severe, as you pointed out earlier. But it wasn’t in my case. And you know, in six weeks, I was driving my truck down to rehabilitation.

    Frank Mills 33:36

    The nurse asked me how did you get here she said yeah, I guess you live on a farm but it’s still a normal view, and use your back walking again. Because you have to go and walk anyway. Don’t you? I said I don’t have to. But yeah, and walking was good. And it’s funny.

    Frank Mills 33:59

    My left side was the one that got hit because of the stroke and the things that originally I remembered, my speech was a bit slurry. And my left arm was not in control of what it was doing. I couldn’t lift much with I couldn’t lift the glass to drink with my left arm. And my left leg was sort of like it would do what I call a Dipsy doodle every once in a while. I was there was a screw missing up there.

    Frank Mills 34:30

    You know, the brain was not quite firing on all eight cylinders, they might say, and slowly that all came back. Great therapy they had marvelous therapy, nurses, and physical therapists there that the center I went after, which lasted for six to eight weeks, I guess and after that period, the main physical things , of this job began to subside rapidly.

    Frank Mills 35:00

    Today I’m left I do a Dipsy doodle, I call it with my left leg every once in a while, I’ll be out working down at the sugar bush on log cutting or splitting firewood and, I’ll sort of lose my balance a little bit, you know. And one day I just rolled over on my side, it was so funny.

    Frank Mills 35:20

    I couldn’t believe what was happening, I just rolled over. If anybody had seen it, they would have found it hilarious because I look just like a snowman if you push it, they roll over. And I thought what’s going on here and I realized that and they told me about this once in a while the connections are the synapses are not all firing, you know, and, and you just hope that this will go away, then.

    Frank Mills 35:44

    So the result of all of this, yes, they went away. But my left hand as a piano player was frustratingly slow after this, too, okay, in fact, I could no longer play professionally, I would not play in front of people. And I gave up playing for my enjoyment.

    Frank Mills 36:01

    For better or for worse, it’s perhaps I retired anytime it was a good time to retire anyway, but the stroke pointed out a couple of things and one was that it wasn’t a cholesterol event. It was a physical event. And also the piano-playing thing is coming back slowly.

    Frank Mills 36:17

    But surely, I’m not rushing it. But as I said, to bend, I’m at a point now where I don’t think I can blame all my bad notes on the stroke, yet I’m not practicing enough. I’ve lost my chops in the business.

    Frank Mills 36:30

    So that being said, you know, we’re back to a point where the dark days are over and there weren’t many of them. I don’t think there were more than one or two. And I’m sure everybody has them in different severity levels. And it’s all part of it.

    Bill Gasiamis 36:50

    The piano playing was, is probably going to be a really good gentle rehabilitation. So I mean, you know, if I could encourage you to do anything, it would just get back into playing the piano and just for the sake of enjoying it. And then at the same time, challenging yourself to see if you can overcome, you know, your lack of practice.

    Bill Gasiamis 37:14

    And then it’s good rehabilitation. So I get that as a professional musician, though, you might be frustrated about that. And you might be a perfectionist, and you might be all these things and you’re thinking, it doesn’t sound well what’s the point of doing it anyway.

    Music Box Dancer


    Bill Gasiamis 37:30
    But the point is, is that you don’t have to be perfect, you’re just playing for yourself, and you’re not creating the next gold record. Because what people don’t know about you or most people won’t know about you is that you are quite well renowned for your music. And let me be honest with you I enjoy the music that I’ve listened to you and the one that I recognize you the most for which is music box dancing.

    Bill Gasiamis 38:02

    But when my children who are 25 and 21 now we’re in their cribs, the music box that box dancer used to drive me nuts, Frank, because it was on all the time. To get them to sleep, all we had was we had that mobile thing that went around and around in circles on top of their crib, we would crank it up and all we would hear was the music box dancer.

    Bill Gasiamis 38:36

    And for people who don’t know what the music box dancer is, you will recognize this and just give me a second while I press play on the YouTube file that I’ve got here and listen to this music box dancer for a moment.

    Bill Gasiamis 39:34

    Now that is that amazing piece, as soon as I heard that piece, I went straight back to that moment with my children in the crib when they were little, and what an amazing time because it connected me with that time when my kids were little and it was lovely for us, you know?

    Bill Gasiamis 39:54

    And then I thought nothing of that music. I’d never thought of the person who might have created it and I never thought that there would be somebody who would reach out to me 25 years later and say, Hey, Bill, I’m this guy, Frank Mills, I had a stroke. And my claim to fame is, amongst other things this, this track Music Box Dancer.

    Bill Gasiamis 40:20

    And to me, that’s why I’m fascinated about this stroke recovery, podcast, recovery after stroke podcast, because it’s brought people from all over the world to me that I’ve met, and they all come from amazing backgrounds, and I’ve learned so much. And I haven’t had a guest that’s been 79 years old, the majority of the people that have had on have been say, you know, 55, and under, which is unrepresented, that part of the stroke community is really on represented out in the world.

    Bill Gasiamis 41:01

    You don’t hear much about young stroke survivors, but there’s a ton of them. Fortunately, I think you don’t hear about old stroke survivors because most of them don’t get away with it. So the fact that you’re here is really good. Tell me about the career that got you into this situation where you’re the creator of the music box, and dancer, and you’ve had a gold record because of it at least in Australia.

    Frank Mills 41:35

    Yeah. Well, I started with a rock band, when I was about 25 28 years old. I called the bells. And they had a number-one hit that I played piano and harmonica on in 1971. That’s a long time ago. But I arranged that piece and played a rather large role in producing it.

    Frank Mills 42:09

    I don’t know if you’re familiar with the various stages of recording but they’re all these different people, I happen to be the one guy who did it. But after the record went gold in the United States, get to number one called Stay a While and you can look it up by The Bells, and you will hear it.

    Frank Mills 42:30

    It’s a very soft, gentle ballad. The Bells was a rock group in Canada at the time. And rock is putting it mildly, it was probably elevated music, at that time, but compared to what Springsteen doing these days, which is rock, you know. And I wasn’t altogether comfortable with that, I was happy to get the gold record, of course, with The Bells.

    Frank Mills 42:56

    But I realized that I didn’t want to be a singer. So I didn’t mind playing the piano. I was a pianist at the time. That’s how I was earning my living with the bells. So that lasted for two years, I finally decided to go on my own. And I made a record recording a piano music. It was called Seven of My Songs and some others. That’s a strange title.

    Frank Mills 43:21

    But I played stuff like Bridge Over Troubled Water on and all of my arrangements. And it was very different. You I would challenge some people to, you know, do you know what song I’m playing here, even though most of the late people wouldn’t know it all, a musician would just sum it up right away.

    Frank Mills 43:40

    But my arrangements were very different. So anyway, I kind of liked that little niche. But the recording company made me a deal. I couldn’t be fused. And they said, well get do an album and we’ll help you pay for it. And actually, I ended up having to go to the bank to borrow to finish it.

    Frank Mills 43:56

    But that’s all history. And I made the album and it was an instrumental album piano album. And it was just fate was ironic, everything was telling me to be a singer. But this is going to be the you know, the way to go? And I said no, no, I’m not interested in the fame or the fortune and the singing and the Hard Rock life. I

    Frank Mills 44:17

    It’s not for me. I want to be a piano player and just do my thing, you know? So we’ll dammed up if you didn’t have one of the songs on that album that was liked by the artist and repertory director at Polygram Records Canada, which is where I was at the time. And he said you have lyrics for that song? And I thought oh, here we go again, back to the same song.

    Frank Mills 44:40

    You know, I said Yeah, I do. He said sing at least. So he stuck the album in his office. And I sang a song called Love Me Love Me Love which went to number one in Canada three months after I’d recorded it.

    Frank Mills 44:52

    So I was doing okay, you know, as a young guy I had two gold records under my belt, one of them just in Canada, although Love Me Love Me Love went to number 40 in the States and didn’t do well, but that’s fine number 40 is better than nothing.

    Bill Gasiamis 45:09

    That’s pretty good.

    Frank Mills 45:10

    Yeah, so I was off to a great career. Eventually they realized that singing was not for me I would my heart wasn’t in it. And I did a series of 26 albums on piano and orchestra after that. So writing songs, I must have written at least 200 pieces for the artist, Frank Mills on piano. And other people record them James last a lot of the big instrumental guys in Europe recorded my pieces.

    Frank Mills 45:41

    And in the States, Ray Conniff was he liked my music. So he recorded a lot with his orchestra and chorus. And there are a lot of covered tunes music box dancer Bill was one of 200 songs. My kids liked it and I realized up-tempo pieces are not common happy pieces of music easy to write a soppy ballad than it is to write an up-tempo happy piece, right? And, I wrote a lot of my soppy ballads.

    Frank Mills 46:12

    But yeah, so eventually, Music Box Dancer should never have been released. It had such a tough time going from one drawer to another drawer and being turned down by virtually everybody in the business. And finally, a fellow from England was on loan to Polygram, Canada, and Polly Door at the time.

    Frank Mills 46:37

    And he said to me, what’s that ticularly peace, you’ve got an album that he put out years ago. He said, I kind of liked that. And we released it. I said to him at the time, this is all very well, you know, I gotta put bread and butter on the table here. What are we gonna how many are we gonna sell he said, Oh 5000 Or maybe seven.

    Frank Mills 46:58

    And about six months later, we already sold a million in Canada. And that’s a big market, a tiny market for a million records. Just about every other Canadian must have bought one. So I ended up with a music box, going to number one in 26 countries. I’ve got 16 gold albums up there and 14 Platinum ones.

    Frank Mills 47:22

    And it’s been a hell of a career that nobody knows about. But there’s a music box dancer once said, I think in Wikipedia, one of the most memorable melodies ever written. That’s about the best compliment a writer can get. And there it is. So here I am, you know, stroke later, and still, really not in the music business.

    Frank Mills 47:46

    I retired in 2018, purpose on purpose, did my last concert, and wrote music to the poem in Flanders Fields. I don’t know if you know it by John McCrae. It’s about the First World War. And I wrote music to that. And it’s being used now by veterans and things on Armistice Day. In Canada, it’s starting to catch on quite well, which is nice. I did it as a nonprofit just to thank you for the vets. And as a farewell project. So that’s where I’m at today. It’s catching on.

    Frank’s Music Career

    Bill Gasiamis 48:22

    It’s interesting, you know, you said it’s a hell of a career that nobody knows about. What genre is this career that you’ve had? Like, what genre is it in? And because I’ve only ever heard of the gold albums, you know, for Elvis Presley and Michael Jackson and those kind of guys. You hear that they make it big in the charts, etc. What chart were you ranking in? Is it the same chart that I’m listening to the pop chart or something like that?

    Frank Mills 49:04

    I guess the best way I can describe it is BBC Two. They were the ones who caught on. And the rock stations hated me they just loathed me because, in essence, my career was one of narrowcasting Bill.

    Frank Mills 49:22

    I wrote songs, and piano and orchestra. I love the big orchestra and I toured with a large orchestra for five years. And my small band. Well, there are 13 of us to begin with, and then down to five. The five of us toured for 12 years, the last 12 years 2018 were from 2006 to 2018 I traveled with six of the best guys a guy could ever wish to work with.

    Frank Mills 49:53

    We had a wonderful career together. Everybody got well paid. And we had a great time I went to Japan, Japan is an amazing mark, as you can imagine a little ballerina with that song going around in circles. It appealed to the Japanese like nobody else before I hit several gold records from Japan.

    Frank Mills 50:12

    It was on the charts in Japan for nine months. And, here’s the middle-of-the-road sort of easy listening elevator, Frank touring in Japan and got mobbed by schoolchildren at the airport when we arrived it was hilarious.

    Frank Mills 50:29

    The constant problem for me in the press has been where do we put it? Is this guy with his mega-hit? And it’s not a rock and roll in the audience. They’re all older people and loving it. Have a great time.

    Frank Mills 50:41

    So the long and short of it to answer your question was, I’d been narrowcasting, I knew that from the minute I went into instrumental music. Even the first guys at the record company said Yeah, but what are we gonna do with it? You know, it’s a nice song. What are we gonna do with it?

    Frank Mills 50:56

    What do you mean, what do you do with it, promote it, we can’t promote that nobody will play it, you know, on and on. And finally, they had to play. The phones went up every time they played the darn thing. No matter what city it was, the phones would light up and you couldn’t make a phone call switchboards were jammed.

    Frank Mills 51:17

    It was hilarious. I remember going to Ottawa to give a concert one of the first concerts I ever gave after Music Box Dancer alone. There I was on the stage with myself and said to the producer, how many people do you expect to show up? This was an open-air concert on the beautiful river in Ottawa, which is a pretty city in Canada, it’s the Capital.

    Frank Mills 51:38

    And there we were on the stage and he said, there’ll be about 500 there. I was driving from Montreal, I lived in Montreal, drove to Ottawa, and got into a traffic jam. And I didn’t know what was going on. I thought I was not gonna make it for two o’clock.

    Frank Mills 51:53

    And I rolled down the window and said to the guy, is this traffic gonna last? Like, is this happening all the time? Because I’m trying to get somewhere. And he said, No, they’re all lined up for the Frank Mills concert.

    Bill Gasiamis 52:07

    Wow.

    Frank Mills 52:07

    So I parked my car on the field and walked to my concert. 5000 people showed up instead of 500. They ran out of free Pepsi and hamburgers in about 10 minutes they had to call in the pizza trucks because Pepsi decided to sponsor this thing. So it had its wonderful moments. It’s been a great career.

    Frank Mills 52:30

    And I sort of sat in the back and laughed all the way to the bank. Well, this was all going around me without any fanfare whatsoever. There was a time in Canada when I could walk around and people would recognize me but I could go anywhere I want today and nobody has any idea who I am, which is kind of fun.

    Bill Gasiamis 52:50

    That is kind of fun. So what’s interesting is that you said you know the Rock and Roll people would have hated you or disliked your amount of taking up their supposed airtime or anything like that, right? But what’s interesting is that there are a lot of really famous bands, whose guitarists and whose musicians are classically trained.

    Bill Gasiamis 53:27

    I know the guys in Metallica and some of the other popular rock bands have classically trained musicians that play in that band and then have decided, you know that their niche, or what they love to do is hard rock, or heavy metal, or whatever they call it. Right?

    Bill Gasiamis 53:47

    So that’s interesting. And that they couldn’t appreciate your formula for success. You know, your formula is really what it’s about. And I think there’s something to learn from you. If you’re an aspiring musician, it’s like, what the hell’s Frank doing? Why is he getting this airtime?

    Bill Gasiamis 54:08

    And if it’s not necessarily, I’m gonna do what Frank does and play piano music. It’s like, understanding the psyche that goes into creating a piece, and then finding a way to somehow get it played, and then having these unexpected results because of it. I think there would have been a lot to learn from you, rather than giving you a hard time about the fact that you’ve got a Piano Box dancer on the charts.

    Frank Mills 54:42

    Well, when you go into it, there’s no hindsight. So you know, I can look back now and see how it came about and why it came about. But there’s no doubt when anybody goes into any creative field. You’re playing the odds, the odds are you’re not gonna make it. That’s the bad news to start with.

    Frank Mills 55:04

    Now, if you think you’re good enough, and my attitude was always this I was raised in a house where classical music was always played. I studied classical music, most of my life and enjoyed it.

    Frank Mills 55:20

    And remember I got admitted to McGill University’s music school by playing Rachmaninoff’s second piano concerto by ear, in C sharp minor instead of C minor. And the entrance examiner said, that’s very lovely, but why do you play it C sharp minor?

    Frank Mills 55:40

    And I said I don’t know. But I play along with the record, I guess the turn tables are turning a little quicker than it’s supposed to. He laughed, and he said, Yeah, you’re pretty good you’re in. So that was the end of it. We had a good laugh about that. But here’s how it all started.

    Frank Mills 55:56

    Just a weird situation that I said, I’m going to take this as far as I can. I know, Bruce Springsteen, that didn’t happen, quite honestly, you just sort of sold his catalog for half a billion dollars, but I don’t need that kind of thing. I wouldn’t be afraid of that type of life, I wouldn’t.

    Frank Mills 56:20

    And a lot of the rock guys, I know, in the big rock bands, you know, they’ve had a hard life, it’s 300 days a year on the road for a lot of them in the beginning. And there’s not enough to do you know, you’re doing the same show every night. And gosh, so I was lucky, we had various orchestras, the core band was four guys, you know, and myself.

    Frank Mills 56:44

    And we would build on that we had orchestras as big as 80 people in the recording studio one time. And other times, they were just the four of us. So I liked the big orchestra, I always enjoyed playing with them.

    Living A Full Life


    Frank Mills 56:57
    And it was a bit of a perk, I guess, to be invited to play with the various symphonies in Canada and raise some money for them, and then do that kind of stuff, you know. So it’s been very rewarding, but much more, I took it as far as I could. And it went much further than I ever thought it would. So there you have the career side of it. And now I’ve got the stroke to worry about.

    Bill Gasiamis 57:20

    You’re living a full life, you know, when I consider my life, it’s the type of life I want to live, I want to live a full life, I want to take things as far as I can take them. And I never was like that, you know, the stroke made me wake up to myself.

    Bill Gasiamis 57:34

    And pay attention to what’s important and having a go, giving things a try and letting fear you know, not override my decision making and stopping all of that rubbish and just basically getting on with it. You’re a great example of how to go about life, give it a go, and then try something different.

    Bill Gasiamis 58:02

    If it doesn’t work out and live relatively healthy. Avoid all of the things that we think we’re supposed to be doing because others are telling us to do. And then it’s not us, you know, that going into the music career for you. You know, it would have been difficult for most people to resist being told you should be a singer Frank.

    Bill Gasiamis 58:28

    Because they’re looking at that and thinking, well, there’s a pay, there’s a paycheck at the end of that, you know, I might as well do what they’re telling me to do. Right? And live some kind of version of a career in this field. And you’re gone. No, I don’t want to do that. You’ve done the exact opposite.

    Frank Mills 58:47

    It wasn’t my style. You know, I just tried to be honest with myself. Yeah. I think I’m going through a few hard knocks on ladies Young. Set me up for that honesty, I had to look in the mirror an awful lot. Where is this going? You know, what do you want to do about it?

    Frank Mills 59:05

    I remember, finally taking the plunge into music which I equated to going off the high diving board, holding your nose and your trunks fall off on the way down, you know, and it was full of that there was a lot of humor that kept me going. Because I like a good story. And I like being with the audience and we related to each other well, because they were older. They were not the younger crowd.

    Frank Mills 59:30

    They will bring the babies and the children like you had, but there was a big gap in it. I never saw the rockers. They were too busy at the Springsteen concert and that’s fine. I had to admit that though. You know, I had to realize that sorry, Frankie you’re never gonna be a superstar you know, but by narrowcasting, as I call it, I did find a niche that seemed to work.

    Frank Mills 59:53

    I was certainly blessed. I have been led a blessed life. I tend to have a lot of I spend a lot of time thanking the great spirit. I’m not overly religious, but the great spirit looks after me very well.

    Frank Mills 1:00:07

    So especially with the stroke thing, it’s been a blessing in disguise, because I’ve learned a lot about myself that I didn’t know. And some of it’s pretty good. I’m pretty happy about having recovered as well as I have. And my wife has been instrumental in that if I can use that word.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:24

    That’s, lovely, man, it’s a great way to round up and finish up the episode, I want to thank you for reaching out. Because I very rarely hear from all the folks who’ve had a stroke. And it’s really important that I put the message out for everybody. This is not just a podcast for young people and have had a stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:43

    It’s for everybody. So I’m glad that you did that. I’m glad that you told me about your career in that part of the email that I received, and you’re reluctant to come on the podcast. But I thought there was no way I was going to let him get away with it, I needed to have him, I needed to meet the guy who used to drive me nuts, at all hours, 25 years ago.

    Frank Mills 1:01:09

    You weren’t alone.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:11

    Listening to this music, on repeat, and nothing else and I’m so glad that we had it because it settled the babies and calmed them down. And it made it possible for us to get some sleep every once in a while.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:26

    So I didn’t know that I was going to be thanking you for that 25 years later. But thank you for that. Thank you for being on the podcast. And it’s so great to see that you’re doing well and recovering.

    Frank Mills 1:01:40

    Well, thank you and I enjoy your work, you’ve been very helpful, I’m sure to many people, not just me, and it’s a good thing you’re doing. I admire you for it.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:54

    Thanks, Frank.

    Frank Mills 1:01:56

    Thank you.

    Frank Mills experienced a vertebral artery dissection while he was having a shower. He walked into the emergency room and told the nurses he was having a stroke.

    Wikipedia

    Highlights:

    01:49 Introduction

    04:58 Frank Mills Stroke
    09:56 The Dark Moments
    15:37 Missed Opportunity
    23:10 Importance of Being In Good Shape
    26:54 Sensory Overload
    31:19 Giving Up Sugar
    37:30 Music Box Dancer
    48:23 Frank’s Music Career
    56:57 Living A Full Life
    1:01:57 Post-stroke Fatigue

    Transcription:

    Frank Mills 0:00

    I was diagnosed with prediabetes about seven years ago and gave up sugar. The doctor said to me, well, you’ve got a few choices here, nobody gives up sugar. So we’ll put you on a pill.

    Frank Mills 0:11

    I said I’m not a pill guy. Let me try giving up sugar. I weighed 250 pounds at that time. And she said, okay, how long do you want to do this? So I said, let’s try a month. If nothing happens, fine.

    Frank Mills 0:27

    Well, within a month, I’d lost 13 pounds. And I was feeling great. I didn’t have any of the ups and downs of what is it when you have that sugar problem. hypoglycemia? I didn’t have any of that anymore. Long story short, I lost 47 pounds in six months, and I’ve never felt better, never looked back, and don’t eat sugar.

    Intro 0:52

    This is the recovery after stroke podcast, with Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after a stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05

    Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Recovery after Stroke podcast. Now recently, Spotify released a new feature that allows people to write their favorite shows similar to how the Apple podcast app allows it.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:19

    If you think this show deserves it, I’d love it if you left a five-star review. This will help the show rank better on search engines, and help newly diagnosed stroke survivors find the show, and therefore hopefully you could make their life a little better on the way to recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:36

    So go along to your favorite app, and share what the podcast means to you. It really will make a huge difference. And I would appreciate it. Now thanks so much for tuning in to today’s episode.

    Introduction


    Bill Gasiamis 1:49
    This is episode 179. And my guest today is Frank Mills, the world-famous musician who amongst other things, wrote the popular piano track Music Box Dancer, Frank Mills, welcome to the podcast.

    Frank Mills 2:05

    Nice to see you, Bill.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:06

    Nice to see you. Thank you so much for being here. I appreciate it.

    Frank Mills 2:11

    It’s a pleasure.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:13

    Frank, tell me a little bit about what happened to you.

    Frank Mills 2:15

    Well, it was November 28, just a little bit over a year ago. And I was in the shower one morning. Never had any inkling about any of this. Eat well, get lots of exercise, outdoors farmer type guy, play the piano for a living.

    Frank Mills 2:36

    That’s over, I retired in 2018. So it wasn’t a question of a major, major, major interruption. But on that morning, I remember in the shower, all of a sudden my legs gave out from under me.

    Frank Mills 2:51

    And I sort of felt I was about to plop onto the shower floor, which is never good at any age. I’m 78 at the time, I’m now 79. And I thought this was good. So I quickly called Brenda who just rescued me with this podcast, my technician and able wife, and head nurse.

    Frank Mills 3:13

    And I just said to her, I’m having a stroke. I know it. So we got to get to the hospital right now. So we made it to the car, and I could walk. The stroke thing was sort of brief. And I was able to walk to the car, all be it very nauseous and not feeling normal at all.

    Frank Mills 3:34

    And hence the decision that I thought I was having a stroke it didn’t make any sense or anything else it was so sudden. We got to the emergency ward in the hospital and I walked in quite normally. And I just said to the receptionist in the hospital at the emergency ward I’m having a stroke.

    Frank Mills 3:55

    And she pressed this button and two guys appeared and put me on a stretcher and up we went and never saw Brenda for three days because of COVID. She wasn’t allowed in the hospital. But she had the presence of mind to bring my cell phone to the nurse at the reception in the hospital, which made the whole thing a little easier.

    Frank Mills 4:13

    But that’s briefly what happened. And I had no real inkling that my prognosis was correct in the first place until the nurse sent a doctor with the boys who put me in the stretcher and up I went and he knew in one minute I was having a stroke. So it wasn’t a bad diagnosis on my part, but I guess the suddenness of it was what surprised me, and the lack of symptoms beforehand was just nothing.

    Bill Gasiamis 4:41

    Any of the typical symptoms, nothing at all? And you just started to feel unwell? Now what kind of stroke was it? Was it an ischemic stroke?

    Frank Mills 4:52

    Well, no, it was a spontaneous vertebral arterial stroke. Oh, you mean the stroke itself?

    Frank Mills Stroke

    Bill Gasiamis 4:58

    Yeah, was it a clot that occurred?

    Frank Mills 5:01

    Well, the clot occurred, they don’t quite know that two interesting things came out of this, which I suppose comes out of most strokes. One of them was that they did a CT scan on me instantly when I wasn’t in the hospital an hour and they did that.

    Frank Mills 5:19

    And this might clarify your question. When they looked at it, the doctor came down. And he told me that, although there was a bit of a shadow, they couldn’t see everything perfectly clearly he said your brain is very clear of cholesterol. And it had nothing to do with that.

    Frank Mills 5:36

    We think it’s probably some matter that got released from the artery when it was dissected. And the dissection caused some, I mean, this is all on a micro level I guess. A few cells would have done it. And it was a pons stroke.

    Frank Mills 6:01

    And I guess in a sense, he said, he kept saying to me you’re a very lucky man, because this could have been a lot worse. And as that proved to be true. I’m feeling well, these days. You know, there, we can talk about the hangovers. But really, I’m lucky to be where I’m at.

    Frank Mills 6:21

    And I have read a lot of your notes and information. Thank you. And listen to a few of your podcasts which I enjoy. And I guess I’ll let you ask the questions because it was well, the doctor, the neurologist that took care of me, and a nice guy, and he sort of laughed a bit.

    Frank Mills 6:43

    And I thought, what’s so funny? And he said, Well, you just got lumberman’s disease, and I said lumberjack’s disease. What’s that? He said, well, as you know, here in Vermont, the main industry other than tourism is wood, and lumbering and logging and boards and plywood and all that.

    Frank Mills 7:01

    And he said, a lot of guys working in the lumber industry, and particularly loggers who cut trees down, get these arterial dissections because they will be looking up at the top of a tree, and down at the bottom of the base of the tree where they’re going to cut it probably 20 or 30 times during the felling of one tree.

    Frank Mills 7:25

    And this might go on 50 times during the day. And he said it just puts an awful lot of stress and friction on those arteries that tuck onto your skull up in that area that come out of the spinal column and tuck under there.

    Frank Mills 7:44

    And he said the best way I can describe your stroke is to say that you’ve been strangled, then you survive. It’s lovely, isn’t it? But in hindsight, it’s sort of a good way of putting it. These arteries are not as strong as I thought they were.

    Frank Mills 8:02

    And they tend to be very flexible, and multi-layered. So you know that’s all I could gather out of it. And I was only in the hospital for two days, and they let me go home and then the dark wall hit when I got home, you know.

    Bill Gasiamis 8:19

    It’s really lovely to speak to somebody who, “got away with it”. Because very often the majority of the people that I’ve had on the podcast’ve had, firstly, a stroke, secondly, some kind of vertebral artery dissection or carotid artery dissection, yet, they usually don’t get so lucky.

    Bill Gasiamis 8:41

    And perhaps the dissection is more dramatic, and it causes more problems and therefore creates a more serious stroke, and now all strokes serious, the fact that you’ve had a stroke, that’s serious, but the fact that you had a very small amount of time between the time that it happened and then you acted and went to hospital A.

    Bill Gasiamis 9:08

    And B, that the size of the dissection and the small particles, for example, that they released meant the brain wasn’t starved of oxygen for an extended period was just a small interruption and therefore was able to come back but even you who got away with it so well, you just even mentioned that you had dark times. So what were they like when you came home from the hospital three days later what was going on?

    Frank Mills 9:40

    Well, that’s the big one that I think everybody having a stroke goes through and I had done very well at the hospital I was up and about they were walking me down the hall and the corridor is the same old stuff and I was having a great old time with the nurses.

    Frank Mills Stroke Dark Moments

    Frank Mills 9:56

    I mean it was just almost normal. Although there was this looming thing, when I was on my own, it was a little different going to the washroom. And in the hospital, there was a little less confidence there.

    Frank Mills 10:12

    And on Monday morning when the doctor came because this happened on a Saturday morning and Monday morning, and the doctor came in, he said, we’re gonna let you go home. But he said, I caution you. You’re doing very well right now. But he said, when you go home, you may have some dark moments.

    Frank Mills 10:29

    And I sort of wondered, what’s this supposed to be looking for? And he said, stairs, in particular, are going to give you trouble because your balance is off, your eyesight seems to be good.

    Frank Mills 10:43

    And most of the symptoms that are normal strokes were there. They were constantly taking tests by movements of my toes, my feet, my hands, my arms, my ears, my sight, my smell, my hearing, and everything else, and they’re all quite good.

    Frank Mills 11:02

    So I left the hospital in a wheelchair down to the car, and my wife drove me home. And I got to the home and we walked and I got to the stairs I’ve never seen stairs in five days now. And I looked at the stairs, and I just burst into tears, I sat down, and I thought there’s no way I can get up here, there are only four stairs to go up.

    Frank Mills 11:34

    And they were just I’ ‘ve never seen that before of course since the stroke. They didn’t have them in the hospital. He warned me about this. And I thought so I sat on my backside and bumped up the steps. And that was okay, I went to the washroom and then came spruced up a little bit.

    Frank Mills 11:57

    And then I came to the stairs again to go down where I could sit and relax with a cup of tea or something. And I froze, I just didn’t know what to do. I didn’t have any idea what to do. I just did whatever walking I had done, I’d forgotten.

    Frank Mills 12:18

    Whatever going down steps I thought about then nothing. And I sat down on my backside again I think is the only way I’m gonna get down these stairs, and I burst into tears.

    Frank Mills 12:28

    And I remember saying to Brenda, you know if this is the way life is going to be for the rest of my life. I’m not so sure I want to live it. Because at that time, it just seemed all the walls caved in.

    Frank Mills 12:40

    Everything just caved in. It was my one dark moment, which I’m sure everybody who had a stroke goes through especially if you’ve been hurt. It wasn’t that bad. You know, but you don’t realize that at the time, you don’t know.

    Bill Gasiamis 12:55

    Yeah, it’s the worst possible situation. You can’t walk up and down stairs and you’ve got all the rest of your faculties. But you can’t do that. You remind me of my dad, he’s 79 I think as well. And he had knee surgery Frank, which meant that he had to go through two or three months of rehabilitation.

    Bill Gasiamis 13:18

    He’s a heavy guy as well. And that two or three months, I can honestly tell you that he was depressed because he wasn’t able to get around now. He’s been Touchwood he’s been well his entire life. I’ve never known him to be unwell.

    Bill Gasiamis 13:21

    And I’m nearly 50 years old. So I’ve known the guy a long time. And these three months were enough to spiral him out of his regular state of, you know, being generally upbeat and happy-go-lucky to being difficult to shift from, you know, these sort of dark thoughts that he had in his head, and it was just knee surgery.

    Bill Gasiamis 14:05

    He was always going to get better from it. It was always going to work. It just needed him to be on his bum for a little bit of time. But it was strange how quickly he got there. So is that unlike you as well?

    Bill Gasiamis 14:19

    Normally are you upbeat do you normally have any concerns about being so dramatic about life that if it’s going to be like this, then it’s over? Like is it that dramatic has been before?

    Frank Mills 14:35

    No, never before, well, maybe once before but that was years ago when I was under some psychiatric care for a while. For some issues, I had as both my parents died when I was young.

    Frank Mills 14:50

    So that made my upbringing difficult there were some moments in my life that that situation after I was about 10 years of age due to medical problems, and my family became dysfunctional.

    Frank Mills 14:59

    And so I was really on my own as a young man and without guidance. So there were some psychiatric, mind you I’m a great believer in psychiatry I found a psychiatrist who was just a super guy to begin with and he understood my problems.

    Frank Mills 15:28

    And we solved them together and he said to me you know you need six months and you’ll be feeling a lot better. Well, that’s the only dark moment I ever had until the stroke.

    Missed Opportunity After Frank Mills Stroke

    Bill Gasiamis 15:37

    I feel like, do you feel like the doctors of the hospital let you down? They told you that you were going to have trouble with stairs, but yet, there was no rehabilitation before you went home. Do you think there was something missed there? Was there an opportunity to help you that got missed?

    Frank Mills 15:56

    Well, I think there were two things. I think that part of what you’re saying is true. If I’d had three more days at the hospital, maybe we would have found a flight of stairs somewhere and done it.

    Frank Mills 16:11

    So maybe I was released a little bit prematurely. I’ve always had this chameleon-like effect on people that oh, don’t worry about Frank, you know, he’s fine. Look at him he’s great he’s out there on the farm and doing lumbering and still back chopping firewood again, and milking the cows and all the rest of it.

    Frank Mills 16:30

    And so I wouldn’t want to blame anybody if there’d been a lot more time and you know, hospitals today beds are not available. And yeah. So I don’t think there was anything that could have been done other than the fact that I guess I didn’t take it seriously enough when they said stairs are going to be an issue.

    Frank Mills 16:58

    Oh, yeah, sure. stairs, stairs, trees, hills, who cares, you know, get on with it mills. And so that was the issue and Brenda, of course burst out into tears on the stairs, bawling her eyes out.

    Frank Mills 17:12

    And I finally said enough of this stuff. Let’s have a cup of tea. So that ended we got down the stairs, sat on the sofa in the living room by the fire had a cup of tea. And I went to bed I guess, tired is the more right word.

    Frank Mills 17:31

    Woke up the next morning. And the whole attitude had changed. Of course, I love mornings I love waking up, especially at 79 that’s a major accomplishment. Every morning, wee I’m alive again for another day. It’s not all that bad. But that’s kind of the scenario you know, cuz I have a pretty good sense of humor, which always sees me through these things.

    Frank Mills 17:54

    Anyway, I said to Brenda, we’re gonna beat this, this is ridiculous. So we started going for walks. And then the first walk was out to the balcony, which is only about 10 feet.

    Frank Mills 18:08

    But I had a walker and a cane and whatever I needed the post-operative care or wrong word, perhaps post-stroke care was excellent here, the facilities in Vermont. At the local hospital, especially I had six weeks of intensive rehabilitation and muscular that I had the three things that the.

    Intro 18:38

    If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you will know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. Like now How long will it take to recover? Will I recover? What things should I avoid? In case I make matters worse, and doctors will explain things that, you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask.

    Intro 19:02

    If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation. Stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you it’s called Seven Questions to Ask Your Doctor about Your Stroke.

    Intro 19:21

    These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke. They’ll not only help you better understand your condition. They’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery head to the website now recovery after stroke.com and download the guide it’s free

    Frank Mills 19:40

    The eyes the muscles that was the other one that speech because my speech was a bit slurry you know that was nothing to me. Okay. My speech is slurry the doctors had said in your case you’ll probably it may take about a year but you’re going to be living a normal life in two or three months.

    Frank Mills 20:03

    So that spurred me on a bit. But it was the walks with Brenda, that really, it’s we live in a very idyllic setting here. It’s in the mountains of the Green Mountains of Vermont, where there are lots of cows and farms.

    Frank Mills 20:18

    And it’s a very bucolic sort of setting and, and a lovely place to be older than younger, I think. But that’s being honest. So we started our walks. And the first walk, I remember, it was down the balcony a couple of times, you know, and I thought, Oh, the fresh air and the scenery.

    Frank Mills 20:21

    And, gosh, this was getting slowly getting back to where I started. And that when I celebrate, we both took a walk on November 28th, down to the Sugar House, which is about half a mile.

    Frank Mills 20:37

    And back here, and we took the long route, which is what we called the long route when I was progressing through my post-operative care, or post-stroke care is the right word. And, we came didn’t stop down there, we marched right back and just said, you know, it’s been a good year, I can do this and it’s happened.

    Frank Mills 21:11

    And so we went from that few steps on the porch to, oh, a few more steps around the house and then down to the barn. That was a big one that was about 100 feet away. And then a couple of days, I was doing that with ease. And then we push that to go the garden and we have a drive-in driveway thing.

    Frank Mills 21:32

    So doing that circle, that’s about 500 feet, I guess. And it just went on and on and on until we finally went down to the sugar house. And after several stops at times, but a year later, I could have probably jogged it if I’d wanted to.

    Frank Mills 21:48

    If I had been forced to I probably could have jogged down to that place and back again, one year later. So I felt pretty good about life. There are some hangovers, however, and we can talk about those. I’m taking up more of your time here. So you have some questions I’m sure.

    Bill Gasiamis 22:07

    I do. I do. But that’s okay. All the stuff that you’re saying is relevant. And it’s really important for people to hear. What’s interesting is that at 79, you’ve probably known people before you friends, family, acquaintances that have had more dramatic strokes would you have come across somebody before?

    Frank Mills 22:27

    Many times past, I’ve probably had three friends who passed because of a stroke. And they were the typical minor strokes, a couple of minor strokes, then a more serious one. And then finally they get the big one. And the family decides to pull the plug now that that’s the worst-case scenario.

    Frank Mills 22:49

    But that happened over probably three or four years. And looking back at all of them, there was a lot of drinking a lot of bad diet, not much exercise. It’s the old story. I go to the gym three times a week. And I’ve been doing that since June and love it.

    Importance of Being In Good Shape

    Frank Mills 23:10

    And I believe in it. I think you know, if anything you were talking to a fellow named Molter, I think a few weeks ago in your podcast, and he mentioned that. If you’re in good shape, when you start chances are you’ll weather the storm better than if you’re not in good shape.

    Bill Gasiamis 23:35

    Steve Molter yeah he’s similar age to me. He’s probably in his mid-40s. And he had a spontaneous vertebral artery dissection as well. And that’s the whole point of it. It’s like smoking and drinking are things that we do because for some reason we think they bring us good experiences, and pleasure.

    Bill Gasiamis 23:58

    I’m not sure if I was one of those people. But what they’re doing as well, is this slowly increasing the speed at which arteries deteriorate. And yeah, and then that means when you have a small dissection that could become very catastrophic, much quicker.

    Bill Gasiamis 24:17

    So you’re in the best position to have a dissection if you’ve always been a nonsmoker. If you’ve always been a nondrinker. And I’m not talking about one drink a day or one wine a day.

    Bill Gasiamis 24:30

    And if you’ve been fit in well, because your baseline is much, much better so that you’ve got a head start on recovery because you’ve always been well, so you’ve always been unknowingly preparing for a moment when ill health might be around the corner and that does serve people well.

    Bill Gasiamis 24:51

    And I suppose the people who I’ve found that have had a stroke and they’ve been really fit and really Well, sometimes will complain, they’ll say, what was the point of it all, you know, I went to all this effort and look, I still had a stroke. Well, life doesn’t miss out on you, because you’ve been to the gym regularly, it still happens to you.

    Bill Gasiamis 25:15

    But you’ve done a lot of the preventative work, and that has held you in good stead. So that’s important. So even though your friends had, or the people that you’ve known how to trick you still didn’t take it seriously for yourself. It’s like, this can’t happen to me. This is, you know, I’m Frank Mills, like, I do all these things. These things don’t happen to me. Is that true? Or is that different In your mind?

    Frank Mills 25:43

    think the difference difference is in the word spontaneous. And you were the first one who used that they didn’t call it that. In the hospital where I was, it was just called a vertebral artery dissection, which was already three words too big for me to comprehend with all the doctors running around.

    Frank Mills 26:05

    But yeah, I think being fit. Farm Life has been good for me. In many senses. We don’t drink a lot. I have a beer once in a while. A Scotch now and then. No, I’m not a drinker. Smoke, I don’t smoke. I have a cigar now. And then I can’t stand it nearly I’d be sick as a dog if I inhale that cigar.

    Frank Mills 26:28

    So it’s just the pleasure of the smoke and sitting or relaxing for an hour because you don’t get much time to relax in this atmosphere. It’s all fresh air and hard work, you know, which is great for us. I think the sedentary city life is not good for us in the sense that physically, and mentally it’s probably better for us more stimulation. No, maybe.

    Sensory Overload

    Bill Gasiamis 27:01

    I’d say no, it’s overstimulation, Frank, you know, it’s I think about city life. For me, especially since my stroke. And now my brain is sensitive to being overstimulated. You know, too many cars on the road, too many noises, too many bright lights at night, too much of artificial stuff that’s happening around us that we think is normal overstimulates the brain and it’s like, no, this is too much.

    Bill Gasiamis 27:26

    I enjoy my best time is usually before I go to bed, I go lie down, I try and get in there. Before my wife comes to bed. I try and get in for about half an hour, 45 minutes with as little noise as possible. And as dim light as possible. Just to unwind my brain from all of the overstimulation of things.

    Bill Gasiamis 27:50

    And I do prefer being out in the, we’ll call it the countryside, where there’s a lot of different versions, different colors of green, there’s blue, there’s gray, there are all the different colors of nature, and there’s not a lot of noise, and there’s just you hear you know, the trees and the wind.

    Bill Gasiamis 28:13

    And you can see far into the distance rather than the short distances. Like for me, that has always felt like home and my wife says the same thing about the beach. For me, it’s it’s the hills in the country.

    Bill Gasiamis 28:26

    So city life is exceedingly becoming more detrimental to our health, well being mental health as well. But because it’s it’s it’s a life that is I think we were living it because other people are making us live in the city. Work is there. Then we go into offices.

    Bill Gasiamis 28:53

    You know, we’re doing a lot of things that we prefer not to be doing but we’re stuck in this rut of mortgage and, and bills and school fees and two cars and all this junk, right? That describes me before the show guy was a mess before the stroke. I’ve never been better since the stroke and my physical symptoms are daily.

    Bill Gasiamis 29:17

    It’s not like I’ve been able to recover from my physical symptoms but I’ve never felt healthier because I’ve even though I still live in the city withdrawn from the over from the commitment to doing things that overstimulate me and I’m becoming aware of it.

    Bill Gasiamis 29:34

    So being sedentary makes me feel unwell. So in COVID in Melbourne, Victoria Australia, where I live, the lockdowns have been the longest we’ve had the longest lockdowns anybody. And that forces you to be at home and on your butt for a long, long time.

    Bill Gasiamis 29:53

    That was harder for me than actually going through the stroke. Stroke Rehabilitation, and I had a pretty rough because I had to learn how to walk again and I had to learn how to use my arm again. And I had three strokes over three years and brain surgery.

    Bill Gasiamis 30:12

    So it’s not like I had an easy run with a stroke. But the lockdowns have been harder on my psyche, and my emotional well-being than the stroke. So, I envy it. I don’t have envy. But if I have to use a word, like, I enjoy people who live in the spaces where you where you live, you know.

    Frank Mills 30:33

    Yeah, well, of course. You know, the only thing we’ve been able to look at for the last 18 months are the cows, you know, we only got nine and they’ve gone to be bred so we won’t see them till May again.

    Frank Mills 30:47

    So it’s a nice life out here in the country. But again, when you get back to the possibility of stroke and the spontaneity of the dissection. I never knew what a dissection was until I had a stroke. And I knew it. I was not prepared for that. Because the friends I had lost to stroke I suspected had high cholesterol levels.

    Giving Up Sugar

    Frank Mills 31:19

    Their blood was probably full of fat and sugar. I was diagnosed with prediabetes about seven years ago and gave up sugar. The doctor said to me, Well, you’ve got a few choices here. Nobody gives up sugar. So we’ll put you on a pill I die. I’m not a pill guy. Let me try giving up sugar. I weighed 250 pounds at that time.

    Frank Mills 31:45

    And she said, Okay, how long do you want to do this? Well, I said, let’s try it a month. If nothing happens, fine. Well, within a month, I’d lost 13 pounds. And I was feeling great. I didn’t have any ups and downs what is it when you have that sugar problem? hypoglycemia?

    Frank Mills 32:05

    I didn’t have any of that anymore. Long story short, I lost 47 pounds in six months. And I’ve never felt better, never looked back, and don’t eat sugar. I mean, I’ll have the odd cookie if it’s there, but I’m very fastidious about cookies and booze. So I stay away from both of them. Not that the latter was ever a problem.

    Frank Mills 32:28

    But one thing that I mentioned that the stroke did for me was they gave me a few CT scans, they did two or three of them. By the time I was out of there for three days. And the doctor said you will never get a stroke caused by cholesterol, your brain is as clean as a whistle.

    Frank Mills 32:45

    And that they had looked at every aspect of it so that there was a difference to me Bill between the dissection type of stroke, which is caused really, the doctor had said, you know, a lot of guys have dissections and don’t know they had them. He said they get better and forget about it.

    Frank Mills 33:04

    They may have a headache or something like that. But I of course I didn’t have that I did have a stroke. But I think they’re very different. Medically speaking when you have a stroke that’s caused by arterial blockage, as opposed to dissection, which can be it can also be equally severe, as you pointed out earlier. But it wasn’t in my case. And you know, in six weeks, I was driving my truck down to rehabilitation.

    Frank Mills 33:36

    The nurse asked me how did you get here she said yeah, I guess you live on a farm but it’s still a normal view, and use your back walking again. Because you have to go and walk anyway. Don’t you? I said I don’t have to. But yeah, and walking was good. And it’s funny.

    Frank Mills 33:59

    My left side was the one that got hit because of the stroke and the things that originally I remembered, my speech was a bit slurry. And my left arm was not in control of what it was doing. I couldn’t lift much with I couldn’t lift the glass to drink with my left arm. And my left leg was sort of like it would do what I call a Dipsy doodle every once in a while. I was there was a screw missing up there.

    Frank Mills 34:30

    You know, the brain was not quite firing on all eight cylinders, they might say, and slowly that all came back. Great therapy they had marvelous therapy, nurses, and physical therapists there that the center I went after, which lasted for six to eight weeks, I guess and after that period, the main physical things , of this job began to subside rapidly.

    Frank Mills 35:00

    Today I’m left I do a Dipsy doodle, I call it with my left leg every once in a while, I’ll be out working down at the sugar bush on log cutting or splitting firewood and, I’ll sort of lose my balance a little bit, you know. And one day I just rolled over on my side, it was so funny.

    Frank Mills 35:20

    I couldn’t believe what was happening, I just rolled over. If anybody had seen it, they would have found it hilarious because I look just like a snowman if you push it, they roll over. And I thought what’s going on here and I realized that and they told me about this once in a while the connections are the synapses are not all firing, you know, and, and you just hope that this will go away, then.

    Frank Mills 35:44

    So the result of all of this, yes, they went away. But my left hand as a piano player was frustratingly slow after this, too, okay, in fact, I could no longer play professionally, I would not play in front of people. And I gave up playing for my enjoyment.

    Frank Mills 36:01

    For better or for worse, it’s perhaps I retired anytime it was a good time to retire anyway, but the stroke pointed out a couple of things and one was that it wasn’t a cholesterol event. It was a physical event. And also the piano-playing thing is coming back slowly.

    Frank Mills 36:17

    But surely, I’m not rushing it. But as I said, to bend, I’m at a point now where I don’t think I can blame all my bad notes on the stroke, yet I’m not practicing enough. I’ve lost my chops in the business.

    Frank Mills 36:30

    So that being said, you know, we’re back to a point where the dark days are over and there weren’t many of them. I don’t think there were more than one or two. And I’m sure everybody has them in different severity levels. And it’s all part of it.

    Bill Gasiamis 36:50

    The piano playing was, is probably going to be a really good gentle rehabilitation. So I mean, you know, if I could encourage you to do anything, it would just get back into playing the piano and just for the sake of enjoying it. And then at the same time, challenging yourself to see if you can overcome, you know, your lack of practice.

    Bill Gasiamis 37:14

    And then it’s good rehabilitation. So I get that as a professional musician, though, you might be frustrated about that. And you might be a perfectionist, and you might be all these things and you’re thinking, it doesn’t sound well what’s the point of doing it anyway.

    Music Box Dancer


    Bill Gasiamis 37:30
    But the point is, is that you don’t have to be perfect, you’re just playing for yourself, and you’re not creating the next gold record. Because what people don’t know about you or most people won’t know about you is that you are quite well renowned for your music. And let me be honest with you I enjoy the music that I’ve listened to you and the one that I recognize you the most for which is music box dancing.

    Bill Gasiamis 38:02

    But when my children who are 25 and 21 now we’re in their cribs, the music box that box dancer used to drive me nuts, Frank, because it was on all the time. To get them to sleep, all we had was we had that mobile thing that went around and around in circles on top of their crib, we would crank it up and all we would hear was the music box dancer.

    Bill Gasiamis 38:36

    And for people who don’t know what the music box dancer is, you will recognize this and just give me a second while I press play on the YouTube file that I’ve got here and listen to this music box dancer for a moment.

    Bill Gasiamis 39:34

    Now that is that amazing piece, as soon as I heard that piece, I went straight back to that moment with my children in the crib when they were little, and what an amazing time because it connected me with that time when my kids were little and it was lovely for us, you know?

    Bill Gasiamis 39:54

    And then I thought nothing of that music. I’d never thought of the person who might have created it and I never thought that there would be somebody who would reach out to me 25 years later and say, Hey, Bill, I’m this guy, Frank Mills, I had a stroke. And my claim to fame is, amongst other things this, this track Music Box Dancer.

    Bill Gasiamis 40:20

    And to me, that’s why I’m fascinated about this stroke recovery, podcast, recovery after stroke podcast, because it’s brought people from all over the world to me that I’ve met, and they all come from amazing backgrounds, and I’ve learned so much. And I haven’t had a guest that’s been 79 years old, the majority of the people that have had on have been say, you know, 55, and under, which is unrepresented, that part of the stroke community is really on represented out in the world.

    Bill Gasiamis 41:01

    You don’t hear much about young stroke survivors, but there’s a ton of them. Fortunately, I think you don’t hear about old stroke survivors because most of them don’t get away with it. So the fact that you’re here is really good. Tell me about the career that got you into this situation where you’re the creator of the music box, and dancer, and you’ve had a gold record because of it at least in Australia.

    Frank Mills 41:35

    Yeah. Well, I started with a rock band, when I was about 25 28 years old. I called the bells. And they had a number-one hit that I played piano and harmonica on in 1971. That’s a long time ago. But I arranged that piece and played a rather large role in producing it.

    Frank Mills 42:09

    I don’t know if you’re familiar with the various stages of recording but they’re all these different people, I happen to be the one guy who did it. But after the record went gold in the United States, get to number one called Stay a While and you can look it up by The Bells, and you will hear it.

    Frank Mills 42:30

    It’s a very soft, gentle ballad. The Bells was a rock group in Canada at the time. And rock is putting it mildly, it was probably elevated music, at that time, but compared to what Springsteen doing these days, which is rock, you know. And I wasn’t altogether comfortable with that, I was happy to get the gold record, of course, with The Bells.

    Frank Mills 42:56

    But I realized that I didn’t want to be a singer. So I didn’t mind playing the piano. I was a pianist at the time. That’s how I was earning my living with the bells. So that lasted for two years, I finally decided to go on my own. And I made a record recording a piano music. It was called seven of my songs and some others. That’s a strange title.

    Frank Mills 43:21

    But I played stuff like Bridge Over Troubled Water on and all of my arrangements. And it was very different. You I would challenge some people to, you know, do you know what song I’m playing here, even though most of the late people wouldn’t know it all, a musician would just sum it up right away.

    Frank Mills 43:40

    But my arrangements were very different. So anyway, I kind of liked that little niche. But the recording company made me a deal. I couldn’t be fused. And they said, well get do an album and we’ll help you pay for it. And actually, I ended up having to go to the bank to borrow to finish it.

    Frank Mills 43:56

    But that’s all history. And I made the album and it was an instrumental album piano album. And it was just fate was ironic, everything was telling me to be a singer. But this is going to be the you know, the way to go? And I said no, no, I’m not interested in the fame or the fortune and the singing and the Hard Rock life. I

    Frank Mills 44:17

    It’s not for me. I want to be a piano player and just do my thing, you know? So we’ll dammed up if you didn’t have one of the songs on that album that was liked by the artist and repertory director at Polygram Records Canada, which is where I was at the time. And he said you have lyrics for that song? And I thought oh, here we go again, back to the same song.

    Frank Mills 44:40

    You know, I said Yeah, I do. He said sing at least. So he stuck the album in his office. And I sang a song called Love Me Love Me Love which went to number one in Canada three months after I’d recorded it.

    Frank Mills 44:52

    So I was doing okay, you know, as a young guy I had two gold records under my belt, one of them just in Canada, although Love Me Love Me Love went to number 40 in the States and didn’t do well, but that’s fine number 40 is better than nothing.

    Bill Gasiamis 45:09

    That’s pretty good.

    Frank Mills 45:10

    Yeah, so I was off to a great career. Eventually they realized that singing was not for me I would my heart wasn’t in it. And I did a series of 26 albums on piano and orchestra after that. So writing songs, I must have written at least 200 pieces for the artist, Frank Mills on piano. And other people record them James last a lot of the big instrumental guys in Europe recorded my pieces.

    Frank Mills 45:41

    And in the States, Ray Conniff was he liked my music. So he recorded a lot with his orchestra and chorus. And there are a lot of covered tunes music box dancer Bill was one of 200 songs. My kids liked it and I realized up-tempo pieces are not common happy pieces of music easy to write a soppy ballad than it is to write an up-tempo happy piece, right? And, I wrote a lot of my soppy ballads.

    Frank Mills 46:12

    But yeah, so eventually, Music Box Dancer should never have been released. It had such a tough time going from one drawer to another drawer and being turned down by virtually everybody in the business. And finally, a fellow from England was on loan to Polygram, Canada, and Polly Door at the time.

    Frank Mills 46:37

    And he said to me, what’s that ticularly peace, you’ve got an album that he put out years ago. He said, I kind of liked that. And we released it. I said to him at the time, this is all very well, you know, I gotta put bread and butter on the table here. What are we gonna how many are we gonna sell he said, Oh 5000 Or maybe seven.

    Frank Mills 46:58

    And about six months later, we already sold a million in Canada. And that’s a big market, a tiny market for a million records. Just about every other Canadian must have bought one. So I ended up with a music box, going to number one in 26 countries. I’ve got 16 gold albums up there and 14 Platinum ones.

    Frank Mills 47:22

    And it’s been a hell of a career that nobody knows about. But there’s a music box dancer once said, I think in Wikipedia, one of the most memorable melodies ever written. That’s about the best compliment a writer can get. And there it is. So here I am, you know, stroke later, and still, really not in the music business.

    Frank Mills 47:46

    I retired in 2018, purpose on purpose, did my last concert, and wrote music to the poem in Flanders Fields. I don’t know if you know it by John McCrae. It’s about the First World War. And I wrote music to that. And it’s being used now by veterans and things on Armistice Day. In Canada, it’s starting to catch on quite well, which is nice. I did it as a nonprofit just to thank you for the vets. And as a farewell project. So that’s where I’m at today. It’s catching on.

    Frank’s Music Career

    Bill Gasiamis 48:22

    It’s interesting, you know, you said it’s a hell of a career that nobody knows about. What genre is this career that you’ve had? Like, what genre is it in? And because I’ve only ever heard of the gold albums, you know, for Elvis Presley and Michael Jackson and those kind of guys. You hear that they make it big in the charts, etc. What chart were you ranking in? Is it the same chart that I’m listening to the pop chart or something like that?

    Frank Mills 49:04

    I guess the best way I can describe it is BBC Two. They were the ones who caught on. And the rock stations hated me they just loathed me because, in essence, my career was one of narrowcasting Bill.

    Frank Mills 49:22

    I wrote songs, and piano and orchestra. I love the big orchestra and I toured with a large orchestra for five years. And my small band. Well, there are 13 of us to begin with, and then down to five. The five of us toured for 12 years, the last 12 years 2018 were from 2006 to 2018 I traveled with six of the best guys a guy could ever wish to work with.

    Frank Mills 49:53

    We had a wonderful career together. Everybody got well paid. And we had a great time I went to Japan, Japan is an amazing mark, as you can imagine a little ballerina with that song going around in circles. It appealed to the Japanese like nobody else before I hit several gold records from Japan.

    Frank Mills 50:12

    It was on the charts in Japan for nine months. And, here’s the middle-of-the-road sort of easy listening elevator, Frank touring in Japan and got mobbed by schoolchildren at the airport when we arrived it was hilarious.

    Frank Mills 50:29

    The constant problem for me in the press has been where do we put it? Is this guy with his mega-hit? And it’s not a rock and roll in the audience. They’re all older people and loving it. Have a great time.

    Frank Mills 50:41

    So the long and short of it to answer your question was, I’d been narrowcasting, I knew that from the minute I went into instrumental music. Even the first guys at the record company said Yeah, but what are we gonna do with it? You know, it’s a nice song. What are we gonna do with it?

    Frank Mills 50:56

    What do you mean, what do you do with it, promote it, we can’t promote that nobody will play it, you know, on and on. And finally, they had to play. The phones went up every time they played the darn thing. No matter what city it was, the phones would light up and you couldn’t make a phone call switchboards were jammed.

    Frank Mills 51:17

    It was hilarious. I remember going to Ottawa to give a concert one of the first concerts I ever gave after Music Box Dancer alone. There I was on the stage with myself and said to the producer, how many people do you expect to show up? This was an open-air concert on the beautiful river in Ottawa, which is a pretty city in Canada, it’s the Capital.

    Frank Mills 51:38

    And there we were on the stage and he said, there’ll be about 500 there. I was driving from Montreal, I lived in Montreal, drove to Ottawa, and got into a traffic jam. And I didn’t know what was going on. I thought I was not gonna make it for two o’clock.

    Frank Mills 51:53

    And I rolled down the window and said to the guy, is this traffic gonna last? Like, is this happening all the time? Because I’m trying to get somewhere. And he said, No, they’re all lined up for the Frank Mills concert.

    Bill Gasiamis 52:07

    Wow.

    Frank Mills 52:07

    So I parked my car on the field and walked to my concert. 5000 people showed up instead of 500. They ran out of free Pepsi and hamburgers in about 10 minutes they had to call in the pizza trucks because Pepsi decided to sponsor this thing. So it had its wonderful moments. It’s been a great career.

    Frank Mills 52:30

    And I sort of sat in the back and laughed all the way to the bank. Well, this was all going around me without any fanfare whatsoever. There was a time in Canada when I could walk around and people would recognize me but I could go anywhere I want today and nobody has any idea who I am, which is kind of fun.

    Bill Gasiamis 52:50

    That is kind of fun. So what’s interesting is that you said you know the Rock and Roll people would have hated you or disliked your amount of taking up their supposed airtime or anything like that, right? But what’s interesting is that there are a lot of really famous bands, whose guitarists and whose musicians are classically trained.

    Bill Gasiamis 53:27

    I know the guys in Metallica and some of the other popular rock bands have classically trained musicians that play in that band and then have decided, you know that their niche, or what they love to do is hard rock, or heavy metal, or whatever they call it. Right?

    Bill Gasiamis 53:47

    So that’s interesting. And that they couldn’t appreciate your formula for success. You know, your formula is really what it’s about. And I think there’s something to learn from you. If you’re an aspiring musician, it’s like, what the hell’s Frank doing? Why is he getting this airtime?

    Bill Gasiamis 54:08

    And if it’s not necessarily, I’m gonna do what Frank does and play piano music. It’s like, understanding the psyche that goes into creating a piece, and then finding a way to somehow get it played, and then having these unexpected results because of it. I think there would have been a lot to learn from you, rather than giving you a hard time about the fact that you’ve got a Piano Box dancer on the charts.

    Frank Mills 54:42

    Well, when you go into it, there’s no hindsight. So you know, I can look back now and see how it came about and why it came about. But there’s no doubt when anybody goes into any creative field. You’re playing the odds, the odds are you’re not gonna make it. That’s the bad news to start with.

    Frank Mills 55:04

    Now, if you think you’re good enough, and my attitude was always this I was raised in a house where classical music was always played. I studied classical music, most of my life and enjoyed it.

    Frank Mills 55:20

    And remember I got admitted to McGill University’s music school by playing Rachmaninoff’s second piano concerto by ear, in C sharp minor instead of C minor. And the entrance examiner said, that’s very lovely, but why do you play it C sharp minor?

    Frank Mills 55:40

    And I said I don’t know. But I play along with the record, I guess the turn tables are turning a little quicker than it’s supposed to. He laughed, and he said, Yeah, you’re pretty good you’re in. So that was the end of it. We had a good laugh about that. But here’s how it all started.

    Frank Mills 55:56

    Just a weird situation that I said, I’m going to take this as far as I can. I know, Bruce Springsteen, that didn’t happen, quite honestly, you just sort of sold his catalog for half a billion dollars, but I don’t need that kind of thing. I wouldn’t be afraid of that type of life, I wouldn’t.

    Frank Mills 56:20

    And a lot of the rock guys, I know, in the big rock bands, you know, they’ve had a hard life, it’s 300 days a year on the road for a lot of them in the beginning. And there’s not enough to do you know, you’re doing the same show every night. And gosh, so I was lucky, we had various orchestras, the core band was four guys, you know, and myself.

    Frank Mills 56:44

    And we would build on that we had orchestras as big as 80 people in the recording studio one time. And other times, they were just the four of us. So I liked the big orchestra, I always enjoyed playing with them.

    Living A Full Life


    Frank Mills 56:57
    And it was a bit of a perk, I guess, to be invited to play with the various symphonies in Canada and raise some money for them, and then do that kind of stuff, you know. So it’s been very rewarding, but much more, I took it as far as I could. And it went much further than I ever thought it would. So there you have the career side of it. And now I’ve got the stroke to worry about.

    Bill Gasiamis 57:20

    You’re living a full life, you know, when I consider my life, it’s the type of life I want to live, I want to live a full life, I want to take things as far as I can take them. And I never was like that, you know, the stroke made me wake up to myself.

    Bill Gasiamis 57:34

    And pay attention to what’s important and having a go, giving things a try and letting fear you know, not override my decision making and stopping all of that rubbish and just basically getting on with it. You’re a great example of how to go about life, give it a go, and then try something different.

    Bill Gasiamis 58:02

    If it doesn’t work out and live relatively healthy. Avoid all of the things that we think we’re supposed to be doing because others are telling us to do. And then it’s not us, you know, that going into the music career for you. You know, it would have been difficult for most people to resist being told you should be a singer Frank.

    Bill Gasiamis 58:28

    Because they’re looking at that and thinking, well, there’s a pay, there’s a paycheck at the end of that, you know, I might as well do what they’re telling me to do. Right? And live some kind of version of a career in this field. And you’re gone. No, I don’t want to do that. You’ve done the exact opposite.

    Frank Mills 58:47

    It wasn’t my style. You know, I just tried to be honest with myself. Yeah. I think I’m going through a few hard knocks on ladies Young. Set me up for that honesty, I had to look in the mirror an awful lot. Where is this going? You know, what do you want to do about it?

    Frank Mills 59:05

    I remember, finally taking the plunge into music which I equated to going off the high diving board, holding your nose and your trunks fall off on the way down, you know, and it was full of that there was a lot of humor that kept me going. Because I like a good story. And I like being with the audience and we related to each other well, because they were older. They were not the younger crowd.

    Frank Mills 59:30

    They will bring the babies and the children like you had, but there was a big gap in it. I never saw the rockers. They were too busy at the Springsteen concert and that’s fine. I had to admit that though. You know, I had to realize that sorry, Frankie you’re never gonna be a superstar you know, but by narrowcasting, as I call it, I did find a niche that seemed to work.

    Frank Mills 59:53

    I was certainly blessed. I have been led a blessed life. I tend to have a lot of I spend a lot of time thanking the great spirit. I’m not overly religious, but the great spirit looks after me very well.

    Frank Mills 1:00:07

    So especially with the stroke thing, it’s been a blessing in disguise, because I’ve learned a lot about myself that I didn’t know. And some of it’s pretty good. I’m pretty happy about having recovered as well as I have. And my wife has been instrumental in that if I can use that word.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:24

    That’s, lovely, man, it’s a great way to round up and finish up the episode, I want to thank you for reaching out. Because I very rarely hear from all the folks who’ve had a stroke. And it’s really important that I put the message out for everybody. This is not just a podcast for young people and have had a stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:43

    It’s for everybody. So I’m glad that you did that. I’m glad that you told me about your career in that part of the email that I received, and you’re reluctant to come on the podcast. But I thought there was no way I was going to let him get away with it, I needed to have him, I needed to meet the guy who used to drive me nuts, at all hours, 25 years ago.

    Frank Mills 1:01:09

    You weren’t alone.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:11

    Listening to this music, on repeat, and nothing else and I’m so glad that we had it because it settled the babies and calmed them down. And it made it possible for us to get some sleep every once in a while.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:26

    So I didn’t know that I was going to be thanking you for that 25 years later. But thank you for that. Thank you for being on the podcast. And it’s so great to see that you’re doing well and recovering.

    Frank Mills 1:01:40

    Well, thank you and I enjoy your work, you’ve been very helpful, I’m sure to many people, not just me, and it’s a good thing you’re doing. I admire you for it.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:54

    Thanks, Frank.

    Frank Mills 1:01:56

    Thank you.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:57

    Thanks for listening so far, when we got to the end of the interview, and as we wrapped up after the interview ended, Frank realized that we hadn’t discussed fatigue, which he experiences from time to time. So we had a chat about it. And this is the little bit extra that Frank wanted to discuss.

    Frank Mills 1:02:14

    We didn’t talk about fatigue, that’s probably the one major thing I’m left with is fatigue is feeling tired, maybe one or two days a week.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:02:25

    So what happens? Do you go through two or three days where everything is okay? And then you have a couple of low days and fatigue is.

    Frank Mills 1:02:34

    Yeah, I don’t want to go to the gym. And I do go. And once I get exercising and my blood flows, again, I come around a bit. But there are days when I just feel lethargic and tired. I think it’s a hangover from it. He said it might take two years to get rid of that one.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:02:54

    It’s very common. And it’s the main thing that’s more debilitating for most people than anybody than anything I hear about fatigue a lot for me. So I’m about 10 years into my journey next February.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:09

    So the fatigue has mostly gone. If I have a bad night’s sleep, maybe two nights in a row. The third day was terrible. Right, and I can’t sleep. Sleep is critical. Yeah. And the fact that you’ve quit sugar has made your fatigue better, you might not have realized that but the sugar.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:34

    Those high carbohydrate have a big impact on the body, the nervous system, and the brain. And taking that out of your diet means that your fatigue bouts will have been less regular, and less dramatic. So the good thing about fatigue is that you notice when it’s happening, and it’s telling you, Frank, what you got to do is change something or you got to rest.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:00

    And just go with it. That’s what I did. And I see it as a signal from my body that I cannot ignore. And now I pay attention to it. And I do what my buddy says is going rest and if I’ve got appointments, places to go people to see, it’s all not done, nothing’s done.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:20

    If I’ve got a podcast to edit, nothing is done, I just go down, I lay on my bed, whether it’s on top or under the covers, and I just relax. So fatigue for me gets better. A lot of people report that it gets better over time, but some people still struggle with it after many, many years.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:40

    But the majority will say that it gets better and it’s easier to overcome. And it’s early days for you Frank. The truth is unfortunately stroke is not like a broken leg. There’s no timeline on it. You can’t say six weeks and you’ll be up and about.

    Frank Mills 1:05:02

    Thank you. We’ll talk again.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:05

    My pleasure, mate. You’re welcome. We will talk again. And I enjoyed this thoroughly. Thank you so much.

    Frank Mills 1:05:13

    It’s been a pleasure. I enjoyed it, too. I’ll see you again.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:17

    Bye for now. Thanks so much for listening. I had a real blast speaking to Frank and learning about his life and meeting the guy who made the music that used to drive me nuts at one o’clock in the morning 25 years ago.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:32

    Now, do you ever wish there was just one place to go for recovery advice, resources, and support in your stroke recovery? Whether you’ve been navigating your journey for weeks, months, or years, I know firsthand how difficult it can be to get the answers you need. This road is both physically and mentally challenging from reclaiming your independence to getting back to work to rebuilding your confidence and more.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:55

    Your symptoms don’t follow a rulebook and as soon as you leave the hospital, you no longer have the medical advice from professionals on tap. I know for me, it was as if I was teaching myself a new language from scratch with no native speaker in sight. If this sounds like you, I’m here to tell you that you’re not alone and there is a better way to navigate your recovery and rebuild a fulfilling life that you love.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:06:18

    I’ve created an inclusive, supportive, and accessible community called recovery after stroke. This all-in-one support and resource program is designed to help you take your health into your own hands. It’s your guidebook, through every step of your journey from reducing fatigue to strengthening your brain health, to overcoming anxiety and more. To find out more. Just go to recoveryafterstroke.com see you next time.

    Intro 1:06:43

    Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals’ opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast are the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed.

    Intro 1:07:00

    All content on this website at any linked blog, podcast, or video material controlled by this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis the content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice.

    Intro 1:07:22

    The information is general and might not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances or health objectives did not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional.

    Intro 1:07:37

    Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional, your doctor, or your rehabilitation program based on our content if you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition, please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional if you are experiencing a health emergency or things you might be call triple zero in Australia or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance or go to the nearest hospital emergency department.

    Intro 1:08:02

    Medical information changes constantly. At the same time, we aim to provide current quality information in our content. We did not provide any guarantees and assume no legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, currency, or completeness of the content. If you choose to rely on any information within our content, you do so solely at your own risk. We are careful with the links we provide however third-party links from our website are followed at your own risk and we are not responsible for any information you find there.

    Post-stroke Fatigue

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:57

    Thanks for listening so far, when we got to the end of the interview, and as we wrapped up after the interview ended, Frank realized that we hadn’t discussed fatigue, which he experiences from time to time. So we had a chat about it. And this is the little bit extra that Frank wanted to discuss.

    Frank Mills 1:02:14

    We didn’t talk about fatigue, that’s probably the one major thing I’m left with is fatigue is feeling tired, maybe one or two days a week.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:02:25

    So what happens? Do you go through two or three days where everything is okay? And then you have a couple of low days and fatigue is.

    Frank Mills 1:02:34

    Yeah, I don’t want to go to the gym. And I do go. And once I get exercising and my blood flows, again, I come around a bit. But there are days when I just feel lethargic and tired. I think it’s a hangover from it. He said it might take two years to get rid of that one.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:02:54

    It’s very common. And it’s the main thing that’s more debilitating for most people than anybody than anything I hear about fatigue a lot for me. So I’m about 10 years into my journey next February.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:09

    So the fatigue has mostly gone. If I have a bad night’s sleep, maybe two nights in a row. The third day was terrible. Right, and I can’t sleep. Sleep is critical. Yeah. And the fact that you’ve quit sugar has made your fatigue better, you might not have realized that but the sugar.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:34

    Those high carbohydrate have a big impact on the body, the nervous system, and the brain. And taking that out of your diet means that your fatigue bouts will have been less regular, and less dramatic. So the good thing about fatigue is that you notice when it’s happening, and it’s telling you, Frank, what you got to do is change something or you got to rest.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:00

    And just go with it. That’s what I did. And I see it as a signal from my body that I cannot ignore. And now I pay attention to it. And I do what my buddy says is going rest and if I’ve got appointments, places to go people to see, it’s all not done, nothing’s done.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:20

    If I’ve got a podcast to edit, nothing is done, I just go down, I lay on my bed, whether it’s on top or under the covers, and I just relax. So fatigue for me gets better. A lot of people report that it gets better over time, but some people still struggle with it after many, many years.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:40

    But the majority will say that it gets better and it’s easier to overcome. And it’s early days for you Frank. The truth is unfortunately stroke is not like a broken leg. There’s no timeline on it. You can’t say six weeks and you’ll be up and about.

    Frank Mills 1:05:02

    Thank you. We’ll talk again.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:05

    My pleasure, mate. You’re welcome. We will talk again. And I enjoyed this thoroughly. Thank you so much.

    Frank Mills 1:05:13

    It’s been a pleasure. I enjoyed it, too. I’ll see you again.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:17

    Bye for now. Thanks so much for listening. I had a real blast speaking to Frank and learning about his life and meeting the guy who made the music that used to drive me nuts at one o’clock in the morning 25 years ago.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:32

    Now, do you ever wish there was just one place to go for recovery advice, resources, and support in your stroke recovery? Whether you’ve been navigating your journey for weeks, months, or years, I know firsthand how difficult it can be to get the answers you need. This road is both physically and mentally challenging from reclaiming your independence to getting back to work to rebuilding your confidence and more.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:55

    Your symptoms don’t follow a rulebook and as soon as you leave the hospital, you no longer have the medical advice from professionals on tap. I know for me, it was as if I was teaching myself a new language from scratch with no native speaker in sight. If this sounds like you, I’m here to tell you that you’re not alone and there is a better way to navigate your recovery and rebuild a fulfilling life that you love.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:06:18

    I’ve created an inclusive, supportive, and accessible community called recovery after stroke. This all-in-one support and resource program is designed to help you take your health into your own hands. It’s your guidebook, through every step of your journey from reducing fatigue to strengthening your brain health, to overcoming anxiety and more. To find out more. Just go to recoveryafterstroke.com see you next time.

    Intro 1:06:43

    Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals’ opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast are the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed.

    Intro 1:07:00

    All content on this website at any linked blog, podcast, or video material controlled by this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis the content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice.

    Intro 1:07:22

    The information is general and might not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances or health objectives did not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional.

    Intro 1:07:37

    Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional, your doctor, or your rehabilitation program based on our content if you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition, please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional if you are experiencing a health emergency or things you might be call triple zero in Australia or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance or go to the nearest hospital emergency department.

    Intro 1:08:02

    Medical information changes constantly. At the same time, we aim to provide current quality information in our content. We did not provide any guarantees and assume no legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, currency, or completeness of the content. If you choose to rely on any information within our content, you do so solely at your own risk. We are careful with the links we provide however third-party links from our website are followed at your own risk and we are not responsible for any information you find there.

    The post Spontaneous Vertebral Artery Dissection Caused A Stroke – Frank Mills appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

    1 hr 11 min
  • Cavernoma Recovery – Deb Brandon

    Bed Brandon believes that life is much fuller after multiple bleeds in the brain caused by a hereditary condition known as Cavernous Hemangioma.

    Socials:

    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/deb_brandon1/

    Highlights:

    01:09 Introduction

    04:53 Post-stroke Deficits
    09:42 The Bloody Brain
    17:03 From Introvert to Extrovert
    27:08 Emotional Intelligence
    39:12 Family Issues
    47:47 Reading And Writing Issues
    58:56 Task Initiation Issues
    1:09:47 Post-stroke Depression
    1:17:11 How Am I Doing?
    1:27:43 Learning Empathy
    1:34:20 Telling The Story

    Transcripion:

    Bill Gasiamis 0:00

    You mentioned depression. Is it something that came on the scene after the brain bleeds? Or was it something that you were dealing with previously?

    Deb Brandon 0:11

    I wasn’t dealing with it previously, my therapists thought that I might have had low grade depression before. And at first I thought it was situational, you know, and I’d say to people, well, you know, I’ve been through a lot, it’s not surprising, and as I recover, it will get better.

    Deb Brandon 0:31

    But it didn’t, and I became suicidal a couple times. One of the times was really bad. I didn’t want to tell anyone about it because I didn’t want them to stop me if I actually did it, or wanted to do it or whatever. And that’s when I realized that I needed to go, therapist wasn’t enough that I needed medication.

    Intro 0:56

    This is the recovery after stroke podcast, with Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after stroke.

    Introduction


    Bill Gasiamis 1:09
    Hello, and welcome to another episode of the recovery after stroke podcast. This is episode 177. And my guest today is Deb Brandon. Deb was a mathematics professor when she experienced multiple brain bleeds at the age of 46, which turned her life upside down.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:26

    Although she’s at risk of more bleeds, these days, Deb says her life has been much fuller and richer because of her stroke experience. I hope you enjoyed the episode. Deb Brandon, welcome to the podcast.

    Deb Brandon 1:42

    Thank you very much for inviting me.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:44

    My pleasure. Thank you for being here. Tell me a little bit about what happened to you.

    Deb Brandon 1:51

    Let’s see, I have clusters of malformed blood vessels in my brain that are referred to as cavernous angiomas or CCMs, cavernomas. And that thin walls and they can bleed two of mine did bleed. And the first time they did I didn’t really know what was going on.

    Deb Brandon 2:13

    But the I mentioned it to my family doctor, and she sent me for a brain MRI and they found them. I only had fleeting symptoms, but a year later, I had acute bleeds from the same angiomas I have quite a few of them. I don’t know how many exactly.

    Deb Brandon 2:38

    And that turned my life upside down. And I ended up having the only way to prevent future bleeds from these things is to remove them surgically. So I ended up having three brain surgeries. And life was interesting after that.

    Bill Gasiamis 3:00

    I love your spin on that. So how long were they in your head for before they started to play up or act up? How old were you when you first started to have problems with them?

    Deb Brandon 3:14

    The first time I was 46. And all hell broke loose when I was 47. But I’ve had them apparently since birth. They’re hereditary. Yes they’re not as vicious cousins to the AVMs. Yes.

    Bill Gasiamis 3:36

    Is that right?

    Deb Brandon 3:38

    They bleed the blood flow through them is fairly slow. I mean, they can bleed. They can cause pretty devastating symptoms. But on the other hand, they can’t cause much much of anything.

    Deb Brandon 3:57

    My father has them and he’s been asymptomatic all his life. My sister on the other hand, she has them and she ended up she is 12 years younger than I am 11 years after I had my bleeds she had hers and ended up having brain surgery as well. So you just never know.

    Bill Gasiamis 4:25

    So it runs in the family. Totally.

    Deb Brandon 4:28

    Yes, my nephew has them, he’s been asymptomatic. Everyone was tested my kids as well and they don’t seem to have them.

    Bill Gasiamis 4:43

    How has it turned your life upside down? I have a feeling that I can relate but tell me your version.

    Deb Brandon Post-stroke Deficits

    Deb Brandon 4:54

    Well, there are certainly symptoms that are common to most brain injury survivors. like short-term memory loss, attention span that’s shortened. I didn’t have any issues with the paralysis, maybe slight weakness on one side, I ended up with having seizures, tremors, vertigo, loss of balance, I still can’t walk heel to toe without losing my balance.

    Deb Brandon 5:33

    What else, well, lots of cognitive deficits, my sequential thinking was damaged, which made it interesting for a mathematician of course. What else I don’t know a lot of things, but I couldn’t because of the seizures. I couldn’t drive anymore. I had two teenagers at the time. Of course, fatigue, neuro fatigue, which is crippling. I don’t know a lot of stuff.

    Bill Gasiamis 6:07

    That’s plenty. But that’s more than enough. I can relate to all of those things. Except I have more milder days these days. So I’m 10 years, since my stroke, I had that at 37. Mine was due to an AVM, it bled three times. And then we had brain surgery to remove the AVM.

    Bill Gasiamis 6:32

    And it was the brain surgery that made matters worse, the bleeds kept causing problems initially, but it was settling down once the bleed was under control. All the all the deficits were coming back.

    Bill Gasiamis 6:32

    And that was the tricky part because it was making us think that it was less, it was more benign than what it was. So it was kind of creating this sense of oh, things are getting better. It’s okay.

    Bill Gasiamis 7:04

    And then after surgery, I woke up with my left side feeling numb and I couldn’t walk anymore and use my left arm and but the benefit of the surgery is that the AVM is not there any and will never bleed again. So that’s the solution.

    Deb Brandon 7:25

    So they don’t grow back AVMs?

    Bill Gasiamis 7:28

    No, just once again, you’re born with them, they are created in utero, they’re there, and they can remain benign and do nothing. But for very many of us they bleed, they’re not often in the head, often they’re in other parts of the body as well. So the ones in the head tend to be the ones that cause obviously a lot more problems for people.

    Deb Brandon 7:55

    Yeah, CCMs are mostly in the brain and the spinal cord. And they can regrow. So you remove them, they can grow back. And so there’s always that fear, and also you can bring new ones.

    Deb Brandon 8:19

    So there’s always that fear that will happen again. So whenever I have a new symptom, which happens, I mean, for instance, recently, I’ve had a lot of problems with vertigo. And immediately my thoughts are is it another bleed? You know, that kind of thing.

    Bill Gasiamis 8:33

    Right? So they are duplicating? Replicating? Or just growing in new places?

    Deb Brandon 8:42

    Both, well the thing is, because it’s due to a messed up gene, it’s a mutation. For instance, x rays can can generate new ones. Now as far as bleeds are concerned, there are all sorts of theories what can cause that and things like high elevation, stress, things like that. But yeah, life is interesting.

    Bill Gasiamis 9:24

    Yeah. If life’s interesting. I like that application of the word interesting does that make it better than life’s shit, or life’s crappy or life’s hard. Is that why you use that word?

    The Bloody Brain – Deb Brandon


    Deb Brandon 9:42
    No, not really. That’s just me. I tell you the truth. Now, I mean, it’s been a while now. I can’t think how long but more than 10 years. That’s a lot. And I so I am a lot better. except, you know, when I’m dealing with fatigue, the symptoms get worse, but still, it’s a lot better than it was.

    Deb Brandon 10:11

    And ultimately, yes, life is harder. But for me, it’s better, much fuller. I was a math professor, I just retired a couple years ago, a year and a half ago. And I used to teach and enjoy it after the bloody brain, which is what I refer to it. After the bloody brain I had losing track, which as you know, is standard.

    Deb Brandon 10:50

    After the bloody brain, I had to relearn things. I mean, I didn’t remember the multiplication tables. So I had to relearn that I wanted to go back into the classroom. So I re-learned college algebra, and calculus.

    Deb Brandon 11:05

    And after a year, went back into the classroom, my first semester back was pretty horrible, in my mind, apparently it wasn’t as bad as I thought. But you know, and then. But in time, I’d say, by the end of that, well, by the beginning of the following year, which was, ends up being two years after the surgeries.

    Deb Brandon 11:33

    I because I’m having to relearn the material. And also I became more of an extrovert I used to be very much an introvert, think mathematics, think, socially inept mathematician. That’s me. And I had to take a crash course in learning to ask for help. And in doing that, I realized that, hey, talking to people isn’t that bad.

    Deb Brandon 12:09

    So I became much more sociable. And I enjoyed socializing, which I didn’t really before. And through that, I connected better with my students. I also because my sequential thinking was damaged, my brain had to rewire around that. And I ended up learning to think in several different styles.

    Deb Brandon 12:33

    So it’s also helped me teach, it helped me address a variety of thinking styles. So overall, I became a much much better teacher and I became really passionate about teaching. So as far as I was concerned, this was a huge game.

    Deb Brandon 12:53

    Also, after I got back from the hospital, I started writing, I had no idea what was going on. I felt like, I was lost in her without a compass and some sort of alien landscape. And I found that I started looking everywhere for books on the internet, I wasn’t looking for medical data. I mean, I had that. I wasn’t looking from the caregiver point of view.

    Deb Brandon 13:27

    I wanted to hear from brain injury survivors who are going through a similar journey, hearing anecdotal stories, there was nothing, there really was nothing. There was one book I found by Claudia Osborne. But so I went, Okay, I’ll write my own book. And I figured that maybe other brain injury survivors would, maybe it would help them through my story.

    Deb Brandon 13:54

    So I discovered writing I never wrote before well as a teenager in school. But then I found that I, you know, when you start hanging out with people, and you see the lack of awareness, I wanted to reach a broader audience.

    Deb Brandon 14:13

    So then I started, I wanted to improve my writing. So I spoke to a friend of mine about it. And she suggested that I go to these workshops and I couldn’t do it because of the bloody brain. So then I ended up working with a writing coach, and it was from there on I became a writer and later on also I came to really love writing that’s another passion of mine a day without writing. Unless it’s a headache day. Yeah, bad brain day.

    Deb Brandon 14:52

    A day without writing feels empty. So in many ways, the bloody brain gave me some there are gains from it first of all fact that I became an extrovert and as the writing the teaching, and I connect better with people. I feel like the gains far outweigh the losses. And yes, life is harder, but I’m happier. And I like who I am that I’m much more comfortable in my own skin.

    Bill Gasiamis 15:29

    So you tell me that as a introvert, do you not like yourself at the time? Do you know that you don’t like yourself? Or do you know that now? Because you have this other version of yourself.

    Deb Brandon 15:46

    I know that now. I wasn’t aware of, in many ways, I my self awareness really grew up to the surgeries. So I was often you know, when I think back to things that went on, I was often lala land half the time as I said, think, mathematician socially inept, you know, out of it, you’re busy doing your thing.

    Deb Brandon 16:12

    The most social don’t mean, mathematicians socialize, but yeah, they talk about maths, sickly. Through my kids, I socialized but I found it was sort of, yeah, chit chat. never did anything for me.

    Deb Brandon 16:34

    It was all right. But in parties, I always kept to a corner somewhere or I went into the kitchen and pretended to be busy. I just wasn’t comfortable with sociable situations. But I wasn’t. I knew I didn’t like crowds. But beyond that, there was a lack of awareness on my side.

    Deb Brandon From Introvert to Extrovert


    Bill Gasiamis 17:03
    So what made it so that you can become an extrovert? What was the shift was? How did you regain that awareness? How did you become an extrovert? That’s like a really weird and interesting thing. And I’m sure people would love to hear that insight if you have it.

    Deb Brandon 17:24

    Well, okay, so think about it like this. I used to be fiercely independent, and here I am needing help. And there was no question I could not manage on my own. And the only way to get help is to ask for it. I mean, sometimes not. But in most cases, yes. And when you ask for help, you’re exposing your weaknesses. And when you expose your weaknesses, at some level, you are showing that you trust the person.

    Deb Brandon 17:33

    And they reciprocate, you open up to people, they’ll open up to you, they feel more comfortable. You know, I used to be very open with my students about you know, if I’m teaching and I lose some words, and then I have to hit the reset button that used to go, you know, I get tangled up in words, and then can’t able to get back to it.

    Deb Brandon 18:19

    At first, I was really hesitant to tell my students, because you know, you’re a math professor. You shouldn’t have brain problems. But then I just went, I had to it was part of who I was, I was connecting with the students, why would I hide this from them. And I found that the students, and one of the things I talked to them, I talked to them about my issues as a brain injury survivor.

    Deb Brandon 18:51

    And it sort of evolved into talking about a lot of other issues, I was more aware of students having, I became more empathetic, I was more aware of problems that students were having, like mental health problems. And to help them feel more comfortable about it.

    Deb Brandon 19:10

    I talked about mine, because one of the yeah, I forgot to mention, it’s one of the things that happened from all this, you know, you have someone rummaging around in your brain, it’s bound to mess up the chemistry, and I have severe depression.

    Deb Brandon 19:25

    I’ve actually been suicidal a few times. And so I was open to my students about that. And they’d come and confide in me. And I realized that’s when I started making the connection that people who never you know, exposed any kind of weaknesses to me where and I sort of make that connection.

    Deb Brandon 19:54

    So it was really needing help. As I said, you’re fiercely independent and suddenly you have to ask for help. That’s rough. And you put that effort into it. And you’re more aware of how things develop, I think.

    Bill Gasiamis 20:11

    And as a mathematics professor, you’re also teaching likely, most of the people in the class are going to be similarly introverted to you because mathematics tends to bring people of that nature together, or is that a big assumption that I’ve just made?

    Deb Brandon 20:34

    No, you’re right in general. But I was really lucky. I was afraid to go back to teach, I was afraid that I wouldn’t be up to it. So I asked to teach the lowest level classes. Now Carnegie Mellon is a very technical level, university. I mean, it also has a drama department. But the I was in the Mellon College of Science.

    Deb Brandon 21:01

    So there are a lot of scientists, they’re socially inept, and all that stuff. The lowest level course that we teach is calculus of humanity students. So my students, were usually those who usually struggled with math. So they actually made eye contact, they actually could hold conversations.

    Deb Brandon 21:29

    And I came to really love working with them. Now, the interesting thing is most mathematician in my department, most of them didn’t want to, for them, it was like teaching calculus and slow motion. And I was working on. I was working on the process as an unfolding the analytical thinking skills, and relating to them, and it worked.

    Deb Brandon 21:55

    But so at one point, I was asked to teach a more advanced course. And I was scared out of my mind. But I did it. And I came away thinking I did a lousy job. I’m told that’s not the case, that there were no complaints. But I still feel that I couldn’t. I felt like I couldn’t respond in real time that my brain was working more slowly.

    Deb Brandon 22:26

    And I know that it does. My neuropsychologist told me that my thought and it was getting better. I mean, I even though I think more slowly than I did, I used to think really, really fast. And I think a friend of mine just yesterday said to me, Well, you caught down with us, which is nonsense, but I found that speed of my thinking wasn’t much of an issue after a couple years or so.

    Deb Brandon 23:04

    But yeah, so working with the humanities kids, it wasn’t, they’re very much extroverts. And I learned a lot from them. I love teaching them, they came up with different ways of thinking about things. And I had to find new ways of addressing certain questions that I never thought of, because it came so easily to me. So it was a lot of fun.

    Bill Gasiamis 23:33

    So we were an introvert as a child, and is math something that introverts do. And then as a result of the whole path towards mathematics and introversion, then do you stay that way? Simply because it’s a it’s a mindset thing. Do you then adopt a mindset of I am, you label yourself I am an introvert I am a mathematician.

    Bill Gasiamis 24:00

    I don’t talk to people I don’t do is it just the stories that you’re telling yourself that ends you up 40 years later in a situation where you’re uncomfortable with yourself and the way that you’re interacting with people and you’re not aware of it because you’ve never given yourself the opportunity to try new things. Does that resonate?

    Deb Brandon 24:26

    That’s an interesting question. I was painfully shy as a kid. Well, okay, so there’s an interesting side to it, the angiomas that bled on the right hand side. So one theory is that the left brain left side was compensating for whatever and over, over develop. I don’t know if that’s true. My biologist cousin says that the brain is squishy probably doesn’t make that much of a difference.

    Deb Brandon 25:09

    But you do wonder, as I said, I was painfully shy. I did not like being with more than two three people at a time. I did when I was a young adult, I did try and force myself but it was tough. I’m not sure what the reason is, but it is a bit of a mindset.

    Deb Brandon 25:45

    I mean, I have to teach calculus, computer science kids. And there was the mathematicians, I mean, that in the sense that socially, that just, they can’t look you in the eye and that kind of thing. That’s another kind of mindset, it’s, it is a mindset, but you know, I was surrounded by this mindset.

    Bill Gasiamis 26:19

    Normal, it appeared normal is how people behave or interact, or this is what people normally do.

    Deb Brandon 26:27

    And my father was in academia. So I grew up amongst academics. There, you know, that’s what I knew academics, first through my father, and then through my own work. So I think it is a mindset, what changed with the bloody brain was, I think it happened organically. I don’t think it was. There was no decision involved. I don’t know.

    Bill Gasiamis 27:04

    It emerged.

    Deb Brandon 27:06

    Yeah. Yeah.

    Emotional Intelligence

    Bill Gasiamis 27:08

    Interesting. I describe a lot of the things that happened to me that my brain completely had to switch off. And my heart came online. And because my head switched off my heart had space to, just be itself. And then I started to like, what I was seeing and how I was interacting.

    Bill Gasiamis 27:29

    And what people saw. And then I was like, Hmm, that’s interesting. I love how that person responded to me. Okay, what do I have to do to get that response at home at home, I was being an angry dad, you know, 37 years old, all the pressures of the world. Mortgage, you know, intrapreneurial kind of style running my life, no real focus on health, being happy and doing things that please me just work, work, work, work, work.

    Bill Gasiamis 28:06

    And it was like, No, I can’t work. I’ve got time on my hands. Now I can’t have any excuses for all the things that are going on. Basically, it was all me. And now this new me can’t do those things. Because it was physically impossible to do my life the way I was doing it before. But my brain was also not working.

    Bill Gasiamis 28:31

    So at one point, I couldn’t finish sentences. I didn’t remember who had come to visit me, I couldn’t type an email. I couldn’t drive. I didn’t, I had fatigue, serious fatigue, I couldn’t go from the bedroom, to the bathroom and and then be able to be active, I was gone for the rest of the afternoon.

    Bill Gasiamis 28:56

    So the only thing that remained was my ability to experience other people. And I had some regrets. I thought that if I did die, what would my children think of me, and that I wasn’t a terrible person, but I behaved inappropriately, too often. And I wanted to address that.

    Bill Gasiamis 29:19

    And I wanted to make sure that they knew that that wasn’t really me. That was my behavior. But it wasn’t an excuse that I was making. But I sought. I put time into remedying the things that I knew were inappropriate at the time, but I did them anyway and made excuses as to why I was doing. So with my head offline. I never had to overthink anything, because I couldn’t overthink anymore.

    Intro 29:49

    If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be. You’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind like this. How long will it take to recover? Will I actually recover? What things should I avoid? In case I make matters worse, and doctors will explain things that obviously, you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask.

    Intro 30:14

    If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying, and head to recovery after stroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you it’s called seven questions to ask your doctor about your stroke.

    Intro 30:33

    These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition, they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery. Head to the website now, recoveryafterstroke.com and download the guide. It’s free.

    Bill Gasiamis 30:52

    So I had this increase in emotional intelligence or would you say that you experienced emotional intelligence upgrade?

    Deb Brandon 31:00

    Oh, very much so no question about that. And I don’t know, you know, okay, so my explanation was now there’s room in my brain once they took out the bleeders. But I don’t I you know, it’s a good way of thinking about it in terms of heart versus mind. Yeah, definitely my emotional intelligence grew.

    Deb Brandon 31:27

    I think part of it is also the writing because I was trying to understand what was going on, so that I became more self aware. And I reflected a lot on what was going on. I think, before the brain bleeds, I thought I was happy. You know, I did stuff with my kids. I enjoyed them, I enjoyed life, but it’s such a different level now, well, it’s not just at a different level, it’s on a different plane. It’s in a very different way. I tend to throw myself into things more, but there’s much more passion in what I do.

    Bill Gasiamis 32:11

    The people who you hang around with who are your friends before all of the bleeding, did they remain your friends, and how did they find you this different version of Deb? What was their experience like?

    Deb Brandon 32:29

    Well, the interesting thing about that is that I was thinking about that not long ago the friends from most of the people who are now my friends weren’t really friends of mine before. I mean, I knew them maybe or not. The people who are friends, well, first of all, people I considered as friends when I think back to how we interacted I think of them as acquaintances now.

    Deb Brandon 33:09

    So the only ones where I have a connection with from the past, my elementary school friends. One of the things when I wanted to understand what was going on, I started looking back to who I used to be. And I reconnected with people through social media. And I ended up talking to friends from way back when and now it started up a thing where we get together every so often.

    Deb Brandon 33:48

    I mean, it’s not through zoom and well in person a few times through zoom a few times. And they’re friends, I consider them friends. I think they consider me as friends. But that’s an elementary school. That’s pre-everything, pre-bratty teenager, all that kind of stuff. The ones that were more recent, I lost touch with them by as I said they were more acquaintances I didn’t, I didn’t really have a connection with them.

    Deb Brandon 34:25

    And the connection that I did have, which was tenuous at best, didn’t really hold out for instance, one of my colleagues really nice guy. We connected actually, to Englishness he was from England and all that. As I said we were acquaintances, his wife I sort of knew after the brain surgeries I connected with her more I found that the people around me in the sciences didn’t quite know how to well certainly didn’t understand.

    Deb Brandon 35:13

    And they didn’t have the tools to understand is my feeling I don’t think they had that empathy. And we’re back to is socially inept, you know, you don’t have that ability. So I ended up connecting more with, I’m a weaver. So I connected more to the weaving community, I was a dragon boaters, I connected more with the dragon boating community, not science.

    Bill Gasiamis 35:47

    I love what you said just then about, they didn’t have the tools to understand and appreciate and that is such a lovely way to spin that issue that we face, which I faced, which was that certain friends had no idea what to do. And at times, I may have got upset with them and annoyed with them.

    Bill Gasiamis 36:12

    But it was short lived, I didn’t take it to heart, they didn’t know how to respond or react or behave after I’d had three bleeds and brain surgery and couldn’t walk anymore. But your version of it is beautiful, because then not having the tools is not about them, it’s just that they actually don’t have the tools to respond in a way that is going to make me feel better about my interaction with them.

    Bill Gasiamis 36:42

    And, it’s almost also that, nor should they, I mean, they’ve never been through something as serious as we have. And we don’t want them to go through something like that. And they haven’t had to use those skills before. Because perhaps they haven’t known anybody that’s been so unwell before.

    Bill Gasiamis 36:59

    So you can kind of give them a little bit of slack. And it doesn’t matter whether they whether they stop being so prolific in your circles or stop being around so often doesn’t matter. It just matters that we don’t take it personally when people don’t know how to respond around us.

    Bill Gasiamis 37:21

    Because I certainly found that and then I found other friends who I thought were completely emotionless, I found them are the ones that stepped up and came forward and did things I never expected. Because they were just playing a emotionless game, they were pretending to be emotionless.

    Bill Gasiamis 37:42

    And then when it came down to the crunch, they really were able to step up. So it was kind of more of a bravado thing that we were doing, you know, male bravado and interacting, like, you know, like, we never had feelings or anything like that. But these people stepped forward and actually surprised the heck out of me.

    Bill Gasiamis 38:05

    And they find it difficult to admit that they’ve done an amazing thing for me, they really find that difficult when I say to them, Look, you stepped up and you’ve changed my life in one way, in a certain way.

    Bill Gasiamis 38:23

    That really helped when it was necessary, but it really made a huge difference to my life, they find it really difficult to have that conversation so I’m not sure what that’s about but that that’s my experiences people dropped off and then the people that were on the periphery came on. And it was just stunning.

    Deb Brandon 38:46

    Yeah, the interesting thing was family they all care they all worry but most of them didn’t really understand. And a lot of them I got the impression felt that after three months you should be fine right? And with me it’s more unlike you with not being able to walk with me it’s more invisible.

    Family Issues


    Deb Brandon 39:12
    My disabilities are much more, me my balance. Unless I try to walk heel to toe or if I’m really really tired you wouldn’t know that I have balanced problems and also we’re very good at hiding things you know me nonchalantly against the wall, you know that kind of thing.

    Deb Brandon 39:35

    But after the worst of it after the early days, that’s when you start seeing the reaction of well you should be over it by now. And I introduced my mother to the term sensory overload because I have huge issues with it. And, there was one time where I went to visit them.

    Deb Brandon 40:06

    And my mother was going on and on and on at me about something and I just couldn’t deal with it. I just left, because I didn’t want to snap at her. And then I came back and apologized and explained. She said, Well, I have sensory overload, too. So I said, Oh, does it bring you to the point where you’re having a meltdown?

    Deb Brandon 40:26

    She says well I feel like crying. Okay, we don’t quite get it do we. Or I tell her I’m really tired. And she’d go, you were always a napper. So my mother was there for me during the surgeries and all that. But after the fact I don’t know what it was. She likes being the center of attention.

    Deb Brandon 40:59

    So maybe that’s what it was, there was a level there of some tension that wasn’t really there before. On the other hand, my sister who went through something similar, we’re very, very close now. I mean, we were always close. But the connection became much, much stronger.

    Bill Gasiamis 41:18

    Yeah. Well, you guys completely understand each other you guys. Oh, yeah. I totally know what sensory overload means. You both totally know what fatigue means. And you guys can relate to each other like never before you completely understand each other.

    Bill Gasiamis 41:35

    And the people who you described and say lovely, like when somebody is used to being the center of attention. And previously, Deb is definitely not the center of attention. She’s the introvert who tries to not have any attention, then that person who has been the center of attention can just experience all the attention that their heart desires.

    Bill Gasiamis 42:03

    And now there’s somebody else competing for that attention that makes sense that they would feel uncomfortable about that. And of course, we both know that that says more about them than it says about you. And we can kind of from that we can conclude that it’s a time for growth and adjustment for that person as well. Hopefully they know it.

    Deb Brandon 42:28

    Yeah, actually, with the growth thing, with the growth issue, one thing that, well, you’ve talked about, not that I experienced enormous personal growth. And that’s another thing that I can’t say that I regret what happened, I don’t want to repeat it. But I’m not unhappy that it happened. Because it brought me so much, and it made me who I am now. And I like myself a lot better than who I was before.

    Bill Gasiamis 43:07

    Yeah, I was gonna say I have the same experience, I feel that I like myself better, I am more aware of doing things that are not appropriate that I don’t like, I stopped them sooner, I apologized quicker. And that’s just one aspect of my life. You know, that’s just one thing that’s enhanced.

    Bill Gasiamis 43:31

    Like you. I’ve set to write a book about this experience. It’s in my book is a book about post traumatic growth. That’s what it’s about. Everyone talks about post traumatic stress, but I’d like I’m gonna try to highlight the post traumatic growth aspect of it half, you know, glass half full kind of guy.

    Bill Gasiamis 43:52

    And, that’s been the hardest thing for me to do. Because I was never somebody who read books. I was never somebody who wrote books, I never could identify as that kind of person. I could never relate to writers, and book readers.

    Bill Gasiamis 44:12

    And I just thought it was something that, you know, that the nerds did, which is something that I picked up when I was in school when I was probably 13 or 14 years old. And now, I’m like you, I want to write and I can’t write quick enough. I can’t write often enough.

    Bill Gasiamis 44:31

    There’s never enough time for me to write now. And it’s always on my mind when I’m not writing. I’m always thinking I would love to be writing now. Wow, wouldn’t it be good to put that chapter together now and finish that and I just, it’s the project that’s going to take the longest that I’ve ever done. And I’ve never done long projects because you don’t do that. I don’t do long projects. It’s too boring.

    Deb Brandon 44:57

    Okay, a couple things about that. One is is an interesting thing about what you’re writing. I’m currently working on a sequel to my memoir about recovering brain injury, and it’s more or less about living with brain injury. And it’s basically about how it changed my perspective of the world.

    Deb Brandon 45:17

    So it’s, like you said, post-traumatic growth. And I find it really interesting. That’s a nice way of putting it. I find myself writing about things I never thought of before, unlike a lot of brain injury survivors, or any kind of ordeal, survivors, I didn’t get religion. But my relationship towards religion changed.

    Deb Brandon 45:50

    And so I wrote about that I wrote about who I am now versus who I was before that. You know, I don’t know if you’ve read the book head cases by Michael Cole Mason. He’s a he’s a case manager. He writes his short story, he wrote the short story, he was a journalist to about various cases that he worked on one of the things he said, he said that the question of identity, How has my identity changed, is very common amongst brain injury survivors.

    Deb Brandon 46:29

    And that’s something so I wanted to try and understand what had changed in me What’s mind, what’s brain, what’s me what soul whatever, all that kind of stuff. So I wrote about that I wrote about appreciating nature more about, because one thing was sensory overload, it brings everything every, every piece of data comes in with the same value, which means that you can’t differentiate between a whisper and allow whatever yell something, everything comes in.

    Deb Brandon 47:09

    But on the other hand, the other side, the flip side of that is that you are aware of details that you didn’t even notice before. So hence, you know, doing you notice, you see beauty and things that you didn’t even see before. So there’s a lot of a lot of stuff that has changed dramatically for me, and I’ve been writing about that. I think I’m getting close to the final draft now the final full draft now.

    Cavernoma Recovery Reading And Writing Issues


    Deb Brandon 47:47
    So hopefully anyway, because I’m ready for it to come to fruition. As the other thing I wanted to tell you about is writing not having time for writing, I can’t do okay, the only way I can do big projects is in chunks. Because attention span, fatigue, all that. So I do it in chunks. And sometimes the chunks are five minutes, 15 minutes, I can’t work more than an hour and a half at a time.

    Deb Brandon 48:22

    After an hour and a half I’m chances are I’ll get really bad headaches the next day or something I’m working full time was rough was really tough. And when I retired, I took early retirement because I just couldn’t do it anymore. When I retired, I started being able to write more, but still I was limited.

    Deb Brandon 49:01

    The last two years before I retired, I reached a point at work where even writing was tough for me just doing anything extra. So to get back into it, what I did was I started writing 15 minutes a day. Give me a writing prompt, I’ll write about it for 15 minutes, whether it’s a photo that you see or poem that you read, or you just see something.

    Deb Brandon 49:34

    And that got me back into it got me back into the passion of writing. Now I’ve always been a voracious reader. Unfortunately, because of my short term memory issues and my short attention span I couldn’t read I mean, I could read the words but I couldn’t string them together into a sentence.

    Deb Brandon 49:56

    That got better but then again, because of being overwhelmed by too much I couldn’t read dense books, I could read children’s books where the type was large, and the words were sparse. But I couldn’t read books I wanted to read. And then I discovered the ereader, Kindle or whatever, where you can control that, and I became a voracious reader again.

    Bill Gasiamis 50:27

    Okay. I like the sound of that. And see, I’ve never thought of that, because I was given a book to read while I was in hospital, it was the worst thing that I could have been given. But of course, I didn’t say that at the time was a lovely gesture, but there was no chance I was gonna read.

    Bill Gasiamis 50:45

    And I gave that book back unread, many years later, seven years later. So I get what you’re saying. And still, I struggle to to read if I’ve had a big day, because I still have my property maintenance business that has been operating since 2005. So if I have a busy day doing that stuff, then I can’t, I don’t have enough capacity to come home later and look at a monitor.

    Bill Gasiamis 51:17

    So I’d like to wake up early. And when I wake up early, and if everything before the stars have aligned and all the planets are aligned, I just come into my space here, and I sit down and I start writing. And I might get an hour or two into it. And then I’m done. And I might be done. Like you said, for a couple of days or whatever.

    Bill Gasiamis 51:45

    And then that challenges me and frustrates me. And that’s kind of where the learning is coming from. Because I’m so passionate about getting the project finished, but I have way more obstacles in front of me than I ever had. And when I never had any obstacles in front of me, I never thought I never gave it a second thought that I was going to write anything I never considered at all.

    Bill Gasiamis 52:09

    So now yesterday, I had a massive migraine. And it didn’t start off in the morning, it started off about, you know, 11:30 I started to notice it. But I did sit down from between 7am at about 9:30am. And I did put together a few additional pages of words. And then I was kind of feeling what’s the word like, it’s not enough that I have a migraine, and that I have to deal with.

    Bill Gasiamis 52:44

    That didn’t end up being so dramatic, but it was a pretty reasonably decent one kind of leveled off quite quickly for some reason. It’s not only that I was dealing with that I was also dealing with myself going, man, you should be writing you should be writing. Why aren’t you writing? I can’t write I’ve got a migraine.

    Bill Gasiamis 53:06

    But I really want to be like this little dialog of just go and lie down and don’t worry about it and move on. And we’ll get there at some stage. But I’ve never had that fear of missing out so much. I feel like I’m missing out when I’m not writing it. Or if you don’t complete this bill, I tell you, you’re gonna hate yourself. And it’s like, no, no, I will complete it. I will complete it.

    Deb Brandon 53:34

    Okay, okay, we’ve got, we’ve got to do something about this. Okay, not one thing. There’s something called conditions of enoughness that you set yourself, what you’re going to do today, and it’s got to be doable. I mean, and not in the sense of, you’re going to finish a chapter.

    Deb Brandon 53:54

    But you’ll write a page, or someone who has major depression issues, get up and brush your teeth, this kind of thing. And at the end of the day, did you do it? Are you happy with what you did sort of thing. So it shouldn’t be, you’ve got to be more realistic with this and you have to and this is something when I retired, I thought oh, I’ll be able to write four hours a day and this that, it was tough.

    Deb Brandon 54:25

    I was in really bad shape emotionally for a good year and a half, until I realized that I’ve got to change my mindset with that, that it’s okay with what I do. And if there are days when I don’t, right, it’s okay. So, yeah, that’s a tough one, but I don’t. And one thing that I do is that every evening, I actually set the alarm for this, what did I do today?

    Deb Brandon 54:57

    And if I didn’t do anything, I don’t think of it in terms of I didn’t do anything I rested, I needed to rest. And that’s really helped me. And for instance, yesterday, I had a meeting with someone. And then I wrote for 15 minutes. I said, Wow, I even wrote, so I was really happy. But you know, so it’s really helped me with handling that just asking yourself at the end of the day, what did you do? And what did it do for you?

    Bill Gasiamis 55:31

    I often deal plenty. And it all does something positive for me. It’s very rare I don’t do anything because I’m being lazy. It’s not because I’m being lazy it is because you’re resting and I need to rest my brain and I definitely need to. If I don’t rest my brain, then my buddy suffers and then the loop starts and then it goes too long. I’ve started to learn where my limits are so that I can be at exhaustion for the smallest amount of time.

    Bill Gasiamis 56:08

    Okay, Ii’m in exhaustion now I get it. Okay. Rest. And, I don’t do those loops that I was doing about the book and not writing. I didn’t do it about anything else I just doing about this writing project i’ts so important to me, is fantastic. People have stepped up to help out, etc. I owe that to everybody who has decided to be a part of it in some way. And I owe it to myself, and it’s going to happen, but I’m just I’m impatient. That’s what it is. I’m impatient for it to to see it, you know, done.

    Deb Brandon 56:47

    It’s tough. I mean, I’ve had to learn patience. And believe me, it doesn’t always work. Yeah, no, I mean, I actually something that I was whining to a friend of mine about if you know before the brain injury, I could have written for four hours. I said before the brain injury you weren’t writing? Oh, yeah.

    Bill Gasiamis 57:08

    I did. I had that regret, too. I remember getting up in front of a room many years ago, it was probably a year into the second bleed, not even a year into the first kind of stage of my life altering sort of brain bleeds. And I got up and I said, Look, you know, I used to take my brain for granted and I never really paid attention to what I could and can’t do. And therefore I haven’t done a lot of things that I should have done.

    Bill Gasiamis 57:38

    And I don’t know if I’ll ever get it back again. I don’t know if I’ll ever be able to get it back again. And I haven’t caught up back the same way it was before. Because before I never experienced neurological fatigue and sensory overload and all the challenges we’ve spoken about that are common to stroke survivors and brain injury survivors.

    Bill Gasiamis 58:01

    And I wasn’t writing but I felt like if I can’t write because of this, or I can’t do certain things because of this. I’m going to be such an idiot. Because I had the opportunity I had a perfectly good brain back then. I’m going to be such an idiot for not making the most of it back then. But I got over that after a while but it was definitely something that played on my mind.

    Deb Brandon 58:28

    No, I didn’t. I learned very quickly not to well maybe not very quickly, I learned that the old Deb was the old Dab and the new Deb is the new Deb that comes every so often. Yes, I could have worked for four hours at a time. But I mean, I used to have focus used to be I used to have no trouble at all focusing on something.

    Task Initiation Issues

    Deb Brandon 58:56

    Now I do. I used to whenever I started something, I always finished it it was almost like I was you know OCD about it. If I started washing dishes, I always finished it now I can’t. So I start not a big deal. You know, anything like that, and I had to learn that it’s okay not to finish things. And sometimes you never get to finish them. Do you have issues with task initiation?

    Deb Brandon 59:28

    Getting started?

    Deb Brandon 59:31

    Yeah. You want to do something and yeah, I mean, that’s something that I originally thought was procrastination, but my neuro psychologist told me that it’s very different and it feels completely different. I mean, you just can’t do it. I mean things I really wanted to do and I can’t do it.

    Bill Gasiamis 59:53

    I have at the end of the day and also sometimes. So the whole thing that I’m doing online The recovery after stroke project, that’s an ongoing project that started in 2015. And it’s nowhere near where I want it to be. But and there’s a lot of reasons first, because I’m learning about how to behave online, what to do online what to offer.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:18

    So I’m doing what I can and when I can, and when I’m feeling up to it, I’m a stroke survivor, after all, so I have to deal with all the challenges as well. And I have this other job, that is the job that keeps the family going and brings in an income and pays the bills and all that kind of thing.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:35

    So it’s a passion project. But according to the social media experts, you have to be posting a certain amount of time and you have to be doing all these things on a regular basis. And it’s true, because the algorithm likes it when I’m providing certain bits of information on a regular basis that’s predictable that people can consume, and therefore, it suits the social media algorithm to show my posts more often.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:14

    But if I come home, and I’ve had a big day, and then I’m either experiencing fatigue or sensory overload, or whatever, that task that must be done today, will not get done today, under any circumstances. And I just it’s not that I haven’t got the desire, I don’t know the benefit of doing it, it’s that it just physically cannot get done. My brain cannot compute what it made to do to start the task, and then finish it.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:51

    So I find myself having these fleeting moments yesterday, I was driving home from a chiropractic appointment. And the next post on my for my Instagram page came up in my head. And I knew what it was. And I knew that I had the energy to do it. So I stopped the car apart.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:02:13

    I wrote the post, and I posted it. It wasn’t when I was meant to do it. It wasn’t a normal way for me to do those things. But I just did it. And if I had forgotten about it and said I’ll do it later. Later might have been two days later.

    Deb Brandon 1:02:35

    Sometimes the later is a year later, even more. I wanted to get back in touch with my cousin. And it took me 10 years. And it was too late by then he was his feelings were hurt, blah, blah, blah. And I apologized. But you know, there was nothing I could do about it. I just couldn’t do it.

    Deb Brandon 1:02:59

    And it’s funny, it’s as though there’s a disconnect there as though it’s almost a tangible, something blocking you from starting it. And very often I have trouble starting something. But when I do get started, then it’s as though I never had a problem. It’s really odd another other times, I have trouble starting something and out of the blue.

    Deb Brandon 1:03:26

    I get started on it. It’s really strange. And I talked to my neuropsychologist about it and he said, Yeah, that’s the way it is. And that’s something that people automatically assumes procrastination. I’ve had students with that problem had brain injuries and had problem. They said, Oh, yeah, I procrastinate a lot more than I used to, and I correct them. And it helps knowing what it is. It really does.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:54

    I have exactly what you said the same experience with my godparents. So for me, when we grew up, my parents and my godparents were really close. And I really, really loved my godparents, I had a great connection with them. And then, about 20 years ago, they had a separation where they stopped interacting with each other so much.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:20

    And that meant that I was in my 20s then and that meant that naturally because they stopped interacting, my interaction levels went down because as a 22 year old, I wasn’t really interested in hanging around with any oldies at all. So it wasn’t personal, it was just timing.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:38

    And, however, I would make an effort to go and see my godparents probably once every 18 months or two years or something, just drop in, say hello, have a cup of tea. And that lasted for the majority of the time until I got sick and then at 37 after say, let’s say another 10 years, from my mid 20s, say about 12 years of me just popping in and seeing them.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:07

    Of course, when you’re dealing with a brain injury, it took me six or seven years to feel like I’m back to my, I’m going to use the term old self. But it wasn’t my hours of my new version of me. And I hadn’t been to visit them for six or seven years. And they took a person, they thought that it was me that was stopping to come and say, because they did something, and they upset me.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:34

    And I was like, no you didn’t do anything to upset me, I was recovering. And I always wanted to come and see you, but I just couldn’t. And it’s not because I didn’t want to, it’s I just couldn’t. And that’s what you just described, right now. That’s exactly what it was. I had them on my mind. And I would say to myself, I’m going to go visit them next month, next week, next year.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:56

    And it will just go by and I wouldn’t get there. And then it happened when I when I had it on my mind had it on my mind. And then I found out that my godfather was unwell, and he had a tumor in his brain. And it was close to the last days of his life. And that’s when I made it back there.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:06:20

    But when I got there, he was not able to recognize me. He didn’t know who I was and what was happening. And my godmother apologize, because she thought that he had upset me five or whatever years earlier.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:06:38

    And I say well, no, like, I wasn’t upset. I just was sick. I was unwell. And I had other reasons why I couldn’t get in that wasn’t it. So that’s the exact same thing that you just said. And I never thought about it as this. How you describe it this inability to start or how did you describe it?

    Deb Brandon 1:07:01

    Task Initiation and that’s what my neuropsychologist referred to it. Yeah, it’s a bonafide symptom it is. And it can happen with anything can be with a book that you really want to read, it could be it hits out of the blue, once a my neuropsychologist suggested he said, you do a daily task list. And it’s not a to do list, it has no more than two tasks on it, task that you’ve had problems get starting.

    Deb Brandon 1:07:33

    And you block off time on your calendar, you’re going to spend, you know, here’s an hour during which you’ll do this task. And here’s an hour and a half during which you will do that task. And if you do more than that great if you complete them. So it’s like the conditions of enoughness type thing.

    Deb Brandon 1:07:53

    The only problem is, there was one time I did the first task. And I couldn’t do the second I was too tired. So I’m lying in bed. I’m going I didn’t do the second task. I’ve got to do it. Because it’s I had to do it. It’s on the list. Just too tired, you know. And then I go on and on and on and on. And finally I go oh, I can put this is on my list tomorrow.

    Deb Brandon 1:08:22

    So when I mentioned it to my neuropsychologist Oh, yeah, I forgot to tell you that. But also, the other problem with it is it’s self-defeating. Because you have to write down the task list. What if you can’t start writing down the task list? And it can’t be more than two. He told me don’t put more than two items on it. And he told me why he said more than two you won’t do anything.

    Deb Brandon 1:08:53

    And I thought Yeah, yeah, right. But three on couldn’t do any of them too much. Yeah, it could be as I said it could be. And the other problem with it is identifying what it is that you can’t do. Because when you know you have to do something, you know, you have to do it, you know, you will do it. I mean, you know it.

    Deb Brandon 1:09:15

    It’s not like procrastination, where you’ll eventually get to it. It’s you are going to do it just not right now. So you don’t it takes a long time. Now now that I’ve identified that I have trouble identifying. It doesn’t take me as long but it sometimes it took me a long time to really figure out that this was something that I needed to put on my task list. So it doesn’t always work. But it can.

    Post-stroke Depression


    Bill Gasiamis 1:09:47
    Yeah, I hear it’s a good strategy. It’s worth having in the toolbox. Yeah. You mentioned depression. Is it something that came on the scene after The brain bleeds for Was it something that you were dealing with previously?

    Deb Brandon 1:10:05

    I wasn’t dealing with it previously, my therapists thought that I might have had low-grade depression before. And at first I thought it was situational, you know, and I’d say to people, well, you know, I’ve been through a lot, it’s not surprising. And as I recover, it will get better.

    Deb Brandon 1:10:26

    But it didn’t and I became suicidal a couple times. One of the times was really bad. I didn’t want to tell anyone about it, because I didn’t want them to stop me if I actually did it, or wanted to do it, or whatever. And that’s when I realized that I needed to go, the therapist wasn’t enough that I needed medication.

    Deb Brandon 1:10:54

    And even then, something that a lot of people with depression do is they feel better. And they say, Oh, I don’t need their medication anymore, or I can cut back. So I’ve done that a couple of times. Don’t do that anymore. And the suicide ideation came back. So yeah, this is definitely from someone rummaging around in my brain.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:11:22

    And yet, life is fuller.

    Deb Brandon 1:11:25

    Oh, yeah. And I’m more content. Isn’t that odd?

    Bill Gasiamis 1:11:30

    That’s amazingly odd. You yeah, fabulously odd. I like it. I mean, that’s kind of to me. So she’s telling me her life is fuller. And she has depression, people who normally have depression don’t have a fuller life, they appears to be a different version of how they experienced depression.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:11:50

    You’ve seen it as something that can be managed and handled. And therefore medication helps you live the full version of your life. And that’s a great thing. Well, that’s amazing. That’s completely different to what I’ve ever heard of other people saying, but yeah, that’s just really interesting. I really like that version of it. And I don’t like it that you have depression, but I like that version. You know what I mean?

    Bill Gasiamis 1:12:24

    Really interesting.

    Deb Brandon 1:12:27

    I can’t explain it’s just the way it is. I mean, I’m one of these people. I don’t take myself very seriously, which helps a lot. I laugh at myself quite a bit. So references with the short-term memory issues and some of them are long-term issues. I I find them hilarious most of the time, you know, well, the funniest funniest one was I it was two days after I got back from my third surgery.

    Deb Brandon 1:13:03

    I went over next door to talk to my next door neighbor, with my friends. And she had a guest over and three of us were sitting around the dining room table. And the neighbors, you know, starts talking about a movie she just seen. She said, Oh, it’s really good. You should go see it. It’s, oh, it’s the one you know, it just came out.

    Deb Brandon 1:13:30

    And the other woman goes, Yeah, I know. which one you mean. It’s the one with the with the you know, now I have no clue. I’d been out of commission for a good while. But I’d seen a video last night that was really good. And I said, I don’t know which movie you think you’re talking about.

    Deb Brandon 1:13:45

    But I saw this great video. It’s, oh, it’s new. It’s the one with the actor, the one with the hair. And it Okay, so I’m the brain injury survivor who just come home from brain surgery. The next door neighbor was chemo brain and the other one was going through menopause.

    Deb Brandon 1:14:07

    And we just started roaring so I find it amusing more than anything else. I mean, there are times you know, I missed a couple of important meetings and one was not a good outcome, but I just went not much I can do about it.

    Deb Brandon 1:14:27

    Another one I just I explained it laughing and they went Oh, jeez. I’m sorry to hear that but it’s okay. We can reschedule. Most of the time I find these things hilarious means like as I said leaning nonchalantly against the wall when you look like a drunk.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:14:48

    I was out yesterday. We mentioned it earlier a little bit. I was out yesterday and it’s really hot in Melbourne at the moment so I don’t drink but beer goes down well when it’s really hot and I had a beer and the people I was with said to me, you look like really tired and really wrecked, I said I am, I am really tired and really wrecked.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:15:10

    And I can’t hide it anymore where before you could hide it, I look at myself in the mirror some days and I think, dude you look extremely tired, but what can I do, that’s just the way it is. And I have to go about my day like that.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:15:28

    And I have these really kind of droopy puppy dog eyes, you know, so they look like I’m half asleep normally, and then added a little bit of fatigue, a little bit of heat, and some alcohol, which I very rarely do with the alcohol, but add that and then the droopy it almost looks like I’m sleeping on the table, you know, but I’m not.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:15:54

    And if I if I miss out on that opportunity to be out with my friends, you know, because of COVID and all the stuff we’ve been through, I really weren’t like that. And so I made an effort to make sure that I went out, knowing that I’m not feeling the best. But I knew that that wasn’t going to impact me in the next day or the day after I knew that I had done just enough so that I don’t miss out.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:16:19

    But also not too much so that I pay the price tomorrow. So that’s really interesting. And and yeah, I don’t know enough people around me who are near me that can relate to me. That’s the reason for the podcast I get to interact with people from all around the world, get me and know me.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:16:46

    So I’m still navigating a lot of the expectations that people have about my own recovery from the point of view, and it’s like that it’s we don’t talk about me anymore. But I do explain why I can’t do what we used to do. I’m not going down there or I’m not attending that event or whatever I explained to him.

    How Am I Doing?

    Bill Gasiamis 1:17:11

    It’s because of the fatigue, or it’s because of the sensory overload or it’s because of something related to what happened to me 10 years ago. But we kind of have stopped talking about how are you doing? How’s your health? You know, that has stopped? Because you still have those conversations with people about you know, when they make it about you? Are you okay, do they do that still?

    Deb Brandon 1:17:41

    People who know, will ask me how I’m doing. I mean, for instance, I’m still in touch with some of my students, and they’ll ask, well, how are you doing? How are things going? Is this still affecting you? That kind of thing. One of the things yes, it’s really only people who know, if I also in terms of explaining it, I’ve learned to gauge how much they really want to know, because you know how they get that glazed look in their eyes.

    Deb Brandon 1:18:15

    So, you know, so you say, how are you doing? Oh, I’m fine, I’m fine. Because I know that their eyes are gonna glaze over. And otherwise I’ll say, doing okay, you know, you never quite recovered from bla bla bla bla bla. So, you learn to who really is interested in who isn’t.

    Deb Brandon 1:18:41

    With new people. You know, if I have trouble with something like for instance, if I have to cancel something at the last minute, I explain. And either they understand or they don’t. There’s not much I can do about it. I used to really worry about people understanding or not understanding and now I just don’t anymore.

    Deb Brandon 1:19:08

    One project I’m working on is I’m working with a friend of mine. Who’s a caregiver to a brain injury survivor. And we’re working on we’re co writing a book based on conversations between us on the parallel journeys of caregivers and survivors, and I’m learning a lot from her.

    Deb Brandon 1:19:31

    Because things that I didn’t even realize and the thing that’s amazing is with even with survivors, there’s a lot we don’t know a lot we’re not aware of a bonafide symptom or a lot things like we don’t know how to cope with something and you learn a lot from each other. We learn a lot from each other and I find that I lost my train of thought there.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:20:07

    Caregiver’s perspective. You were talking about.

    Deb Brandon 1:20:10

    Oh yeah. So I learned a lot from her about how it looks on the outside. And a lot of stuff that I really wasn’t aware of. Someone took a photo of me when I was, oh, during a seizure was one where I lost muscle tone and whatnot. And I suddenly realized from seeing the the photo, I thought, my God, no wonder people really worry.

    Deb Brandon 1:20:43

    But so there’s a lot you don’t realize what you’re projecting. Yes. I mean, you talk, talk about the fatigue. You know, somebody, a friend of mine said to me, Oh, sounds like you’re really tired. And I said, no, no, I’m fine. And then I happened to catch a reflection of myself, and boy, did I look tired I had no idea, like you said, the eyes drooping and all that kind of stuff.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:21:20

    That’s all right. That was me yesterday, that tiredness that look of tiredness. That I’m projecting was terrifying. But not uncommon for me now. So they kind of see it and they know where I met. And they’ll even say, is a time to go? And I might, I’ll have the final call on that. I’m having too much fun. Let’s stay or, yeah, I’m completely wrecked. And let’s go. So yeah, I do project, tiredness. And then people see that, and then they have to somehow know how to how to respond or react to that.

    Deb Brandon 1:22:01

    Do you sometimes reach a point where there’s a point of no return with a sensory overload where you can’t escape? Because you’re having fun, but it’s too much. But you want to stay but you know, you need to go and you reach a point where you can’t physically go?

    Bill Gasiamis 1:22:24

    Oh I’m not I’m usually not alone. So if I’m at an event that I’m going to experience, I’m with my wife. And I’ll say, I think it’s time to go.

    Deb Brandon 1:22:35

    Yes, but other times when? Okay, so I’ve been in situations where somebody where I know, but my dysfunctions reached a point where I can’t communicate, I can’t move. And sometimes I have meltdowns. And I am usually with people who know I usually warn people in advance that something like this might happen. This is what to watch out for.

    Deb Brandon 1:23:06

    But people aren’t always in tune. And I’ve been stuck in situations and eventually I can get out of it myself. But it can take a long, long time. When I’ve when I go shopping supermarket, I often get sensory overload. And I end up freezing because I couldn’t get out of there and I just stand there.

    Deb Brandon 1:23:33

    But I’ve learned that I can only manage two aisles at a time. I can’t do more than that. That there’s one problem is the milk aisle is always in the back. So buy milk. Now go into milk Milk Milk, Nicole got to get milk Milk, milk milk, and sometimes it’s enough sometimes it isn’t. So getting milk is still an issue. I have a friend who usually gets me milk because I have problems getting milk.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:24:02

    Yeah. Wow. Now I’ve never had that experience of sensory overload to that extent. I am usually so fatigued and exhausted it’s just like we have to go right now there’s so maybe that next level the window of opportunity to go is right now let’s go that’s it and so my wife’s like yeah, sorry, I’m stuffed I gotta go now.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:24:28

    So that’s kind of as far as a golfer me but I do have days where I haven’t done much and I’m just around the house and I’m feeling like all I can do is just go and lie down on the bed. Close the doors, close the windows, close the shutters and make it as dark and as quiet as possible.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:24:50

    Even sometimes I even put headphones on those noise cancelling ones that are not on there just on my head switched off. Just so that things stop interfering. And that really helps and you know, that goes back to educating me and giving me an insight into what people on the autistic spectrum experience and suffer.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:25:17

    Because I could never understand what they were going through what was happening for them. But now I do. And I appreciate so much the quiet. I just love the quiet, you know, to put this on and things go quiet. It’s such a beautiful experience to go through and that recharges me that might give me an hour or two. And then recharges.

    Deb Brandon 1:25:46

    Yeah, that feels good. It really is.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:25:51

    It is I, like you, I feel like this has enhanced my life. It’s tough everyday to be me. My left side is always reminding me that I’ve been through this neuro-fatigue, lack of concentration, all these issues that we’ve spoken about are there every day, they weren’t there before.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:26:14

    And because they’re there, I’ve learned where to go, I have found these deeper places where I can go to deal with my emotional response to those situations. So I have a broader level of ways to respond to things. And it’s not just the freak out and act like an idiot anymore.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:26:38

    Now I can indicate what’s going on to me I can apologize for when I’m being an idiot and then also have these new understanding of okay. I don’t need to push through, I can stop, I can take a breather. So everything that we’ve spoken about has come to me dramatically. After the first bleed, it’s come to me.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:27:06

    And it’s helped me have this what we call like an additional, like perspective, I’m not sure if that’s the word. I think it’s perspective. And therefore I realized how shallow I was as a person before that. And it wasn’t my fault. But that’s kind what I was shallow, and now I have depth and layers and different directions. And that’s far better.

    Deb Brandon Learning Empathy

    Deb Brandon 1:27:43

    Oh, yeah. There’s another one. Oh, God, I lost it again. Actually putting it in terms of shallow that that that really resonates? I think that’s very true of me. Oh, yeah. In terms of empathy towards other people. One thing that I learned that I find fascinating is if you look at any kind of neurological disorder, we experience similar symptoms.

    Deb Brandon 1:28:23

    For instance, if you look at people with autism, sensory overload, I mean, I found myself one day doing this and I’m going, Oh, my God, I’m autistic. And then I realized what it was, it’s that you’re, you’re the repetitive stuff. It calms you down. It really does. with bipolar disorder, people who have bipolar disorder, they also have short term memory issues.

    Deb Brandon 1:28:54

    Depression, in terms of you know, I talked about the task initiation stuff, people with depression, that’s a big thing. And I actually, a couple of my students, I told them about the task list thing. There’s so much overlap. It’s amazing. I mean, things that you never thought of before.

    Deb Brandon 1:29:22

    One of my nephew’s he’s, you know, there’s no label on what he has, but a lot of his issues. I get it because I experienced them to a friend and he has issues with sensory overload. And he was six years old, and he’d have these huge meltdowns.

    Deb Brandon 1:29:42

    And we had some sort of family reunion and I was observing him and I said, I think this is what’s going on. And suddenly, there was this huge aha thing and they could they knew what to do. So really, it makes you much more empathetic towards such a broad range of issues that people have.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:30:11

    And I also had that other understanding of when I was in a wheelchair, I couldn’t walk, I had the understanding of, oh my god, what people in wheelchairs are just sitting down. And therefore, everything’s okay. In their world. Like, there’s so much going on. That means that they have to be in a wheelchair.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:30:34

    And it’s like, You’re such an idiot, you only ever thought that they were just didn’t have use of their legs. And that was the only issue. Oh my God it’s such a narrow minded view of the world. And, again, I wasn’t being hard on myself, I was just, I had a massive awareness. It’s like, oh, so I can’t walk. But it’s only one side of me that can’t walk the other side chain.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:31:04

    Alright, I’m emotionally annoyed and distressed about that. Oh, okay. That’s another thing that’s happening to me, I can’t get to the toilet. Ah, that’s another thing that’s happening to me that I got to deal with, oh like, I can’t feel my left side, but I can feel my right side.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:31:19

    I Oh, okay. That’s another thing that’s, that’s like, every person is in a bloody wheelchair, is therefore, a completely different or similar reason or whatever. And it’s not the fact that they can’t use their legs. That’s the only issue grow a brain, like, appreciate these things for more than what they just appear to be. And that’s a good part because I can say somebody in a wheelchair now and interact with them where before I didn’t know how.

    Deb Brandon 1:31:51

    You see the person. You see the person the way we didn’t before. We were attached to the labels, and you didn’t see the person behind the labels. Oh, there’s a handicapped person in a wheelchair. But he’s person?

    Bill Gasiamis 1:32:07

    Yeah, that’s it.

    Deb Brandon 1:32:08

    There’s stuff going on in his life. Yeah, yeah. No, it’s huge. And you sort of my daughter is a recovering drug addict. And, you know, she went through 12 STEP program and things like that. And I was talking to her friends and, we were saying, she sent me a copy of Narcotics Anonymous, because she thought I’d be interested.

    Deb Brandon 1:32:39

    And I was, I was interested in the 12 step, some of all that, and we were talking about how a lot of people would benefit from it. So I will always tell my students, I bought a baseball bat in my office, if you want me to hit you over the head, feel free to ask me because there are benefits to it.

    Deb Brandon 1:33:00

    Yeah. I mean, this is another interesting thing. So talk to recovering addicts. And you find that you’ve got stuff in common with them, too. It’s, it’s really amazing. It’s a big world out there, a lot of really good stuff, a lot of bad stuff. There’s a lot it’s really fascinating.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:33:34

    And if you look at what makes a similar or were, were the same or or what brings us together, there’s way more of that stuff. It’s our differences are so little which political party you vote for. And there’s so there’s so minor, I mean, the things that actually bring us together, there’s so much more of those. That’s what I found.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:33:56

    And it’s not about the political party that you vote for. And it’s not about what you think about vaccination. And it’s not about any of that stuff. It’s just, that’s that’s kind of the very irrelevant stuff. It’s that I think that’s the stuff to dish that distract people from the actual seeing the person.

    Telling The Story

    Deb Brandon 1:34:20

    Another book that I wrote was about textile techniques from around the world. And at first I wrote it because I’m fascinated by as a weaver’s, of making myself I was interested in the techniques, but as I grew as a writer, I realized the importance of stories and telling the stories. You see the person, I mean, you can label you can say, okay, there’s a Guatemalan Weaver there who makes beautiful textiles.

    Deb Brandon 1:34:47

    Well, what does that tell you? Well, you know, I don’t know her from you know, so I’m writing the stories and bringing these people to you look that people like you. So there’s the the labels they’re good as a starting point, to help you recognize something, you know, like she’s got gray hair and glasses.

    Deb Brandon 1:35:17

    But when you go beyond the labels, you have to go beyond the labels to see the person. And the strength that the Power Stories is, you know, as human beings, that’s exactly what helps us prevent us from losing our humanities, the stories behind them. And if you look at that, with with textile traditions, it’s interesting, because on the one hand, they celebrate our differences.

    Deb Brandon 1:35:52

    But on the other hand, through the stories, you get the universal, you see the commonalities. So they really address a lot of the aspects of humanity. So I mean, this is another thing that I became passionate about this whole thing about telling stories and preventing us from losing our humanity.

    Deb Brandon 1:36:17

    And with Desmond Tutu dying, social media was flooded with quotes. And one thing that he said, was something along the lines of You can’t become a person, when you recognize the person and other people. So humanity is not just yours, you have to show humanity must come from both sides, all sides. Before it can be. I forget the actual quote, but it’s something along those lines.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:36:53

    That’s a profound statement because that that’s the podcast exactly what’s happened in the podcast, I’ve interviewed 170 or 180 people now. And I’ve never spoken about politics and Donald Trump and, and Joe Biden, and the Australian version of all of that junk, I’ve never done any of that stuff, right?

    Bill Gasiamis 1:37:14

    All we’ve ever spoken to, is what life was like, before stroke, what life is like, with stroke, and what it’s like, after stroke, or you know, when certain number of years have elapsed, and still, like me living with what it’s done, but also have moved beyond that somewhat. And everyone is exactly the same everyone wants to be well, they want to have a roof over their head, they want to be fed, they want to be loved, they want to be nurtured.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:37:47

    They want to express themselves, they want to have people together, around them community, they want to have all these things that are exactly the same. And all the other junk goes away, the politics goes away, all the other rubbish, the religion goes away, everything goes away.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:38:10

    Get rid of all of that junk, and then everyone is the same underneath. That’s what and the people I’ve interviewed are from a lot of backgrounds, diverse backgrounds, in every way, shape, or form people that I would never interact with yet. I would never, for example, interact with, in Australia with people from Mexico, or people from on my way, it doesn’t matter where you know, because I’m too far away from them. Because I live in Australia, they live over there.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:38:36

    Now I’m interacting with them. And I’m getting this really rich tapestry of life, experience, and beliefs and understandings and all that type of thing. But then once they all go away, the story underneath is all the same story. Everybody desires for the same things, they just get caught up in.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:39:11

    Well, what other people want us to get caught up in life, whether you’re Democrat or Republican, whether you’re a Vaxxer or Anti-Vaxxer all that junk, right. And, that’s what the podcast has done exactly what you just described, it’s created this opportunity for me to see the people and therefore when I see somebody homeless, in our city down the road.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:39:41

    It doesn’t mean anything to me. And I’ll go up and I’ll talk to that person say, Hey, hang on, how’s things what’s happening? And we did that with my wife a couple of weeks ago, which just before Christmas, it just sort of started with a sort of guy lying down. And he wasn’t sitting like a regular homeless person. He didn’t have a container or a board asking for money or anything like that he was just lying down in this awkward way.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:40:07

    And I walked past him initially thinking that he was sleeping and I didn’t want to disturb him sometimes. They’ll do that during the day. And then I said to my wife, hang on a sec, he might be having a stroke, let me go back and just check up on him and make sure he’s not having a stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:40:26

    And then I went there, and I said, Man, are you okay? And he said, Ah, sorry, sorry, man, I’m just, you know, I just needed to lie down, whatever, don’t apologize, I thought maybe you were unwell. And then we had this conversation. And that led to he’s been out of prison a short amount of time, and he hasn’t got enough money for a phone call.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:40:47

    And he needed some money for a phone call. And then I said to him, when was the last time you ate? And he said, I ate three days ago. And I said, Well, let’s go and get something to eat.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:40:55

    And it just created this conversation as if he was a friend of mine, and I was treating him for lunch. That was something that I do all the time. And that’s how the conversation went. And that was not me before the stroke. And I’m not saying that to brag about how I help homeless people.

    Deb Brandon 1:41:13

    Yeah, no, I know exactly what you mean.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:41:16

    I don’t really. But I just realized that the guy lying down with his hands on his head, could be unwell. And I should be curious about that. And find out if he needs help. And the help that he needed was a warm meal. And he actually needed a haircut. He didn’t look too scruffy.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:41:33

    But he goes, Man, I need a haircut. I said to him sweet, let’s go and get you a $20 Haircut from the lady that’s just down the road. And, he agreed, and he came along and we got to know each other. And he told me a story. And the story was the same story that the stroke survivors tell me.

    Deb Brandon 1:41:51

    Interesting thing, you know that 80% of the prison population, brain injury survivors? Yeah. mind boggling. Mind boggling and very disturbing.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:42:04

    Very disturbing, because it makes sense that, you know, people don’t know sometimes aren’t able to interact in a way that’s going to be useful or non confronting, and they don’t know how to not do that because their brain doesn’t work properly. I totally get that. Because that’s, that can be me from time to time.

    Deb Brandon 1:42:30

    There’s also the rage issues, the disinhibition, the lack of control.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:42:43

    Deb. I really have enjoyed this conversation. Thank you so much for reaching out. I really appreciate it, thank you for sharing your story. And I look forward to interacting with you on Instagram and get to know you more. And just thinking from the bottom of my heart has been a really profound conversation.

    Deb Brandon 1:43:05

    No, thank you. No, I enjoyed it very much, too. I as you said, you make interesting connections. I’ve made connections all over the world through this. It’s fantastic.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:43:15

    I’ve never met a math professor. And now I can say that I have.

    Deb Brandon 1:43:22

    Not anymore.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:43:24

    If I have a math conundrum, I definitely am going to let you know.

    Deb Brandon 1:43:29

    Yeah, math emergencies. That’s me.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:43:33

    Well, thanks so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed that episode. And I would like to ask you if it’s possible to live the show a five star review on either iTunes or the podcast app that you use to listen to podcasts. And also, if you’re watching on YouTube, also give the show a thumbs up and leave a comment below.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:43:54

    And let me know what you thought of the particular episode. Doing this is going to make a big difference to how search engines rank the podcast. And if they rank it. Now, well, that might make it easier for other stroke survivors who are going through something similar to what we have been through to find the podcast and that might make it better for them in their path to recovery. So thanks so much for doing that. Thanks so much for listening, and I’ll see you on the next episode.

    Intro 1:44:25

    Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals opinions and treatment protocols disgusting any podcast or the individual’s own experience and we did not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed.

    Intro 1:44:43

    All content on this website at any linked blog, podcast or video material controlled this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis the content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice.

    Intro 1:45:05

    The information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances or health objectives did not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional.

    Intro 1:45:20

    Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional your doctor or your rehabilitation program based on our content. If you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition, please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional if you are experiencing a health emergency or think you might be, call triple zero if in Australia or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance or go to the nearest hospital emergency department.

    Intro 1:45:44

    Medical information changes constantly. While we aim to provide current quality information in our content. We did not provide any guarantees and assume no legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, currency or completeness of the content. If you choose to rely on any information within our content, you do so solely at your own risk. We are careful with links we provide however third party links from our website are followed at your own risk and we are not responsible for any information you find there.

    The post Cavernoma Recovery – Deb Brandon appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

    1 hr 47 min
  • Raising Awareness About Stroke – Kristi Schiller

    Kristi Schiller kept experiencing symptoms that she didn’t recognize as signs of stroke because they were transient. It took more than 6 months to get an accurate diagnosis.


    K9 4 Cops
    Instagram

    Highlights:

    01:09 Introduction

    02:49 The Initial Symptoms of Stroke
    12:32 The First Incident
    18:41 Ignoring The Signs
    22:32 Patent Foramen Ovale (PFO)
    32:20 Finding A Reason
    40:38 Starting A Journal
    45:04 Cutting Out Sugar
    55:28 Importance Of Stroke Awareness

    Transcription:

    Kristi Schiller 0:00

    I told my husband I dropped my phone walking up the driveway and it kind of got some dirt on it. I said, I’m gonna go in the bathroom, and I said I’m just gonna wipe my phone off and I’ll be out in a minute.

    Kristi Schiller 0:11

    He said I’ve must have been gone maybe half an hour. And so somebody comes and knocks on the door while the doors locked. I had come into the bathroom, and it’s almost like it was an out-of-body experience.

    Kristi Schiller 0:22

    I can remember everything happening. My head was throbbing. I could hear a ringing, but it’s not like I was a complete blackout. But it felt like it in my head. I dropped my phone when I walked in and I leaned over to pick it up and the momentum just carried me and as I fell forward, I hit the wall and my bell was pretty rung. But I remember laying there on the floor and I couldn’t move.

    Intro 0:56

    This is the recovery after stroke podcast, with Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after stroke.

    Introduction


    Bill Gasiamis 1:09
    Hello, and welcome to another episode of the recovery after stroke podcast. This is episode 177 and my guest today is Kristi Schiller, the founder of the charity canines for cops, which is a charity that raises funds to donate canines to law enforcement agencies and school districts across the United States.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:33

    Kristi went and diagnosed as having suffered a stroke several months and wanted to join the podcast to raise awareness about stroke and the signs of a stroke so that others could get help quicker. Kristi Schiller, welcome to the podcast.

    Kristi Schiller 1:51

    Thank you for having me Bill.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:53

    Thank you for being here. Take two hopefully this time we’ll get through it and actually have a proper recording at the end of it.

    Kristi Schiller 2:01

    Yes, I know. We tried a few days ago, and I don’t know what it is, something about Texas, or you know, I don’t know what it is. But our connections weren’t loving each other. But I hope they’re better today.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:16

    The internet connection isn’t bigger in Texas. Everything else is big and good thing, not the internet connection.

    Kristi Schiller 2:25

    Well, I don’t know if you saw on the news last winter, but you know, Texas, get all their electricity cut off. We had none for some people a few weeks. And so it’s like everything’s bigger in Texas, but the political brains and the electricity.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:45

    Tell me a little bit about what happened to you.

    The Initial Symptoms of Stroke

    Kristi Schiller 2:49

    Well, let’s see my symptoms started maybe a solid six months before I was diagnosed and maybe a year, I look back on it I had some auditory issues so severe ones, about nine or so months before football games, things like that any type of loud noises, brakes, cheering, anything would just feel like ice picks in my ear.

    Kristi Schiller 3:20

    And so, I did get the shot in January, and then got my second Moderna shot in February. And I didn’t think I didn’t have any complications didn’t think much about it. And I’m still not convinced that you know, it had anything to do with that because I was having issues before.

    Kristi Schiller 3:46

    But I started getting some severe headaches. And just the short term memory was just, it was horrible. In March of this year, I had a case of global transient amnesia. And I dropped my little girl off at school, I went to the grocery store, and we live on a ranch in Texas.

    Kristi Schiller 4:12

    So it’s nothing for me to have two or three carts. And as I’m ambling through the aisles getting what I needed everything, I’m kind of having to go to my phone saying, if I’m going to cook this, what do I need, oh, butter, and then it would just all the lights everything hurts so bad.

    Kristi Schiller 4:34

    So I went over to the pharmacy, I got some Excedrin and just thought, oh, it’s allergies. Well, by the time I got done, and the checkout boy was helping me out. He said, where did you park? I said I don’t know. And the sun was hitting me as I came out. And he said what do you drive? I said I’m not really sure.

    Kristi Schiller 5:03

    I just, and I’m trying not to embarrass myself in front of him, and he’s a young college kid. And so we finally figured out what my car is. And he says, I’ve never helped anybody with two carts before. And I said, I live on a ranch. And he said, Oh, you do? Which direction?

    Kristi Schiller 5:25

    I didn’t know there’d be a quiz. And he goes, do you live towards Austin towards Houston? And said I don’t know. And as the sun was penetrating on me, I had sunglasses on, but it was the pain was just unreal.

    Kristi Schiller 5:44

    And I couldn’t remember my husband’s name. I couldn’t remember my name. I said please don’t go get a manager or call the police. I’m not on drugs. I don’t think I need to be on drugs. But I’m just having these headaches. And because he looks pretty alarmed.

    Kristi Schiller 6:04

    And a lady was going by and she stopped me. And she said, I went to a charity event, she didn’t know the episode I was having. She said I went to a charity event at your ranch. And because I have a charity canines for cops in America, and she said, You’ve such a beautiful ranch, and I said, what direction was it?

    Kristi Schiller 6:30

    And about that time my husband called I couldn’t have told you my husband’s name. And it, you know, on the iPhone, it gives the name and the picture, and then the title of the company, however you have it set up. And I said, I told the boy, I said, look, that’s my husband I think.

    Kristi Schiller 6:49

    And I’m trying to make jokes as I’m going along. And I just feel like it’s bright, it hurts, but yet, everything’s getting more narrow and darker. And, I said look, it says he’s the CEO of an oil company I did pretty good huh? I’m trying to make the guy laugh. But the minute I hear my husband’s voice, I started crying.

    Kristi Schiller 7:13

    And I said, I don’t know where we live. And he said, what? He said, where are you? And I told him, I said how do I get home? And he said, did you taste something in the store? It’s when he hands you like a sample of some food? And I said no. And he goes, well, you take a left out of the driveway and go seven miles and you’re in front of our ranch. So okay, I can’t believe I drove myself home.

    Kristi Schiller 7:45

    Then the headache was just so omnipresent for about 48 hours. I went to the doctor, and I said, Look, I think I have a brain tumor. I mean, it’s that serious. And he said, No, you don’t, I said could I have dementia? He says no. So he pulled blood. He says your blood is fine. You know, it’s probably just allergies.

    Kristi Schiller 8:12

    Okay. So a month later, we went to a friend’s birthday party. And we drove about an hour and a half, two hours to Austin. I remember getting there, we got there about 5:30 in the evening. And, he lived on a big lake. I don’t remember anything after that.

    Kristi Schiller 8:32

    And actually, I had given up I only have red wine. But I decided when these headaches started back in January or the Christmas time, I was going to give up red wine because I thought maybe it’s the tannins. It’s something that’s causing these horrific headaches.

    Kristi Schiller 8:50

    And so I didn’t have anything. And he said I was just not making sense, like one minute and I was so thirsty. So he says, Look, I made us a reservation. And I have a girlfriend, that’s kind of a celebrity and interior designer. She was there and she said I want to tag along. We went to this, this fancy steak house.

    Kristi Schiller 9:16

    And we see our neighbor. I don’t see him. I mean, apparently I did. And he’s a politician here in Texas. And he said, he sent me a text. And my husband said I just locked in and just kept looking at this text. And he says, oh, Kyle’s here.

    Kristi Schiller 9:42

    So I don’t remember any of this the next morning. He starts referring to his daughter and says, you know, oh, his, you know, Kyle’s daughter is going to do so great in school and what a pretty girl and I said, who?

    Kristi Schiller 9:58

    And he says the little girl’s name and I said why do you keep talking about them? I mean, they’re lovely people, but you just keep bringing them up and he said we were with them for three hours last night, they ended up eating with us.

    Kristi Schiller 10:15

    And he said, so he took me back to the doctor. Doctor never said, let’s get an MRI. Let’s get a CAT scan. I can pull more blood, but I can tell you, she’s fine. Everything comes back fine.

    Kristi Schiller 10:29

    Pulled more blood. Everything was fine. So about two and a half, three weeks goes by. And I have an appointment back in Austin at the governor’s office for my charity. And right before I sat down, I said, Is there somebody here who can give me an aspirin. Just that morning when I got up it was doing it again the throbbing.

    Kristi Schiller 10:56

    And so 8 or 10 people sat around this table, and I got ready to speak. I couldn’t remember the name of my charity. I couldn’t remember what we did. I just said I just need a minute. I think this is allergies. Well, again, called the doctor. And he said look, I mean, the only thing I saw was your little own vitamin D.

    Kristi Schiller 11:26

    Okay, so now, that was May, now we go into all the way to the end of June. The headaches were still kind of there. But I mean, I kind of learned to try to, you know, deal with it.

    Kristi Schiller 11:45

    So we were at a friend’s house for his birthday party. And I kept dropping, I noticed after that time in May, that I forgot about dinner to the governor’s office. So now it’s about eight weeks have gone by I just dropped everything. And I go to put my hand and to like, open up the car door in would miss the whole handle.

    Kristi Schiller 12:13

    And then I was like whoa, you know, how did I miss that? And in just everything that I got ready in, you know, I had cut back on added sugar. I’m like, Okay, now you’re going to go gluten free, I guess now’s the time you’re going to get healthy and to do what gave up red wine.

    The First Stroke Incident

    Kristi Schiller 12:32

    And I told my husband I dropped my phone walking up the driveway, and it kind of got some dirt on it. I said I’m gonna go in the bathroom. And I was feeling dizzy, but I didn’t want to alarm him. And I said, just gonna wipe my phone off. And I’ll be out in a minute.

    Kristi Schiller 12:49

    Everybody 20 people, they start mingling and get ready to sit down. He said I must have been gone maybe a half an hour. And so somebody comes and knocks on the door. Well, the doors locked. I had come into the bathroom. And it’s almost like it was out of body experience.

    Kristi Schiller 13:07

    I can remember everything happening. My head was throbbing. I could hear a ringing. But it’s not like I was a complete blackout. But it felt like it in my head. Again, everything had gotten really narrow. But I could hear like people talking to the door on the other side, I can remember that.

    Kristi Schiller 13:30

    I dropped my phone when I walked in and I leaned over to pick it up. And the momentum just carried me and as I fell forward, I hit the wall, Venetian Plaster type wall. And my bell was pretty rung. But I remember laying there on the floor and I couldn’t move and I was like, I bet I jammed my neck.

    Kristi Schiller 14:00

    Or I’ve got a pinched nerve. That’s what’s wrong with me. But yet I still couldn’t move when I was laying in the floor. A few minutes later. I hear it, tap tap tap. And you know we’re ready to sit down for dinner.

    Kristi Schiller 14:15

    So I remember kind of sitting up and getting a washcloth and you know, I’m like my neck God It hurts so bad in from my ear to I guess my collarbone just felt like I must have landed on it that way.

    Kristi Schiller 14:31

    Well, it proceeded to get a lot worse in the next few days. I switched pillows. I you know of course WebMD is the death of all of us. You know we all go on and you know everybody’s dying.

    Bill Gasiamis 14:44

    Self diagnose.

    Kristi Schiller 14:46

    Exactly. So I went on and it matched everything to a pinched nerve and I thought that’s what I did I must’ve hit it. So I start putting a heating pad and then I start putting ice on I call a neurosurgeon I know in Houston. And I said, look, I was afraid to kind of get out anywhere that you’re going to catch COVID In wards, you just got to go the emergency room and tell them that you don’t feel good, where you’re gonna wait with 30 really sick people. And this is how you get it. So, it was July 12. So June 29 was the night that I passed out on the floor. So that went all the way up until the night of July 11.

    Kristi Schiller 15:39

    I was still having a hard time sleeping. So my neurosurgeon in Houston said, I’ll order more when you get here. But you have to come with an MRI as a baseline. I mean, I don’t order that I’m too high up on the totem pole. Basically. I don’t order all that. So let me see a recent MRI and, you know, we’ll go from there.

    Kristi Schiller 16:06

    Okay, so I had had some disk problems about 10 years ago in my lower back. So I thought, That’s it. It’s just moved up my neck. And this makes perfect sense. I know I talked myself into it. I was very hot that night. And the temperature I’m embarrassed to say, I don’t know what you do what I’d be over there, but it’s 65 degrees fahrenheit inside my house.

    Bill Gasiamis 16:30

    That was your heating on?

    Kristi Schiller 16:36

    Oh, no, no, no.

    Bill Gasiamis 16:39

    The air conditioning.

    Kristi Schiller 16:40

    Air conditioning

    Bill Gasiamis 16:42

    65 Fahrenheit to Celsius is 18 degrees Celsius. So you had it on because you were trying to get cooler because your body felt hot okay.

    Kristi Schiller 17:00

    So I went to bed about and I even called my female doctor, and she’s a girlfriend and I said, Cindy, my neck is jammed. And I’m so hot. And what can I take as if I had anything, what can I do? And she goes, Well, you know, is it I hate to say it, I don’t want to poke she and I are the same age, she said that it could be like menopause okay, well, I guess that’s it.

    Kristi Schiller 17:36

    And I have a jammed neck and I have to find a different pillow. So I’m walking around with my iPad by key pack. And I tried to get up that morning, when I was laying flat. I was so nauseous after I slept for two or three hours. And I felt like even in the dark, the room was spinning. So I put my foot on the ground to try to go to the bathroom. And I just knew I was going to.

    Kristi Schiller 18:18

    Did I eat something? Still trying to piece it all together. Well, by 3am I said I can’t stand this the nausea is just too bad. So I got up and went into the frigerator. And I remembered I had a cold pack. Like for sprains or if somebody falls down and wrap it around your, you know, joint or leg or whatever.

    Ignoring The Signs Of A Stroke


    Kristi Schiller 18:41
    So I went to the freezer and when I opened it up, everything was dark in my kitchen. And when that light hit me in the eyes, everything just started to exacerbate and get much more narrow. And that’s the last thing I remember when I went down. And so I had my hands trying to steady myself on the glass shelf in the freezer.

    Kristi Schiller 19:04

    So when I fell back, I pulled it and it all came out. So it made a loud noise that wakes my husband up. So he comes in and he says I see one foot sticking out behind the island, and I am calling your name. And he said you had two half gallons of ice cream that have fallen out by your end.

    Kristi Schiller 19:27

    And he’s like, Hey, do you want some ice cream? And he said you just started seeing everything was you know, and he got over me to help me. And I was like you’re sitting on my chest. I can’t breathe he said I’m not touching you. I’m trying to help you and everything just felt like it was getting smaller and tighter.

    Kristi Schiller 19:48

    And we still didn’t go to the hospital. Because I’m like whatever it is these allergies or maybe I said she says it can be pre menopause. It didn’t seem worthy enough to me. I don’t know. I know it sounds crazy looking back on it. But a friend of my husband’s his orthopedic surgeon for Texas a&m University.

    Kristi Schiller 20:13

    So he’s telling him about these crazy episodes. And he said, You know what? Just what are y’all doing tomorrow? We open like 8:30 in the morning, but come over an hour before, no one’s gonna be there. Just me and I’ll have it a tech come in. And I’ll run her through the MRI machine in my office and then you can take that to your doctor.

    Kristi Schiller 20:38

    Wow, gosh, that sound like heaven. Great. Well, as I was trying to get dressed, after about 30 minutes of being in the machine, I noticed I kept missing my buttons I was by myself, and I couldn’t quite get it in the hole.

    Kristi Schiller 20:53

    When I finally got it in, I was three buttons off, like nothing was lining up. I remember there was a tap on the door. And it was my husband and Dr. Brimhall. And my husband’s like you need to sit down.

    Kristi Schiller 21:08

    I said okay. And then Doctor said you’ve had massive strokes. He said in what you’re feeling is all in your carotid artery. I said, Wow. Well, I found out that I think there was five of them, but they only count for one stroke.

    Kristi Schiller 21:28

    Where in there in the same artery. So we’re driving to use them. So it’s about an hour, 10 minutes. So we drive into the medical center, and I wait. And it takes them about 11 and a half hours to get me and to some place a neurological spot there. And so they start running tests, I’m guessing I’m there a week or so.

    Kristi Schiller 21:59

    They can see the strokes, arteries, there’s no clot there’s no buildup, there’s no nerves, and it’s, they were ischemic strokes and they said that we don’t see a bleed so they ran more tests, more CAT scans, MRIs, spinal taps, I mean, you name it, they ran it.

    Kristi Schiller Has Patent Foramen Ovale (PFO)

    Kristi Schiller 22:32

    So I have the most amazing neurovascular neurologist and her name is Dr. Tenu, Garg. And I was put with her and I was put with a heart doctor, they did find a PFO, which is a hole in the heart that I’ve had since it was born. She said, this has to be what it is, because that’s the only thing that’s left.

    Kristi Schiller 23:00

    Well, they did some more tests. And they did it a little implant on my chest, that it’s not a pacemaker, it just sends a note somewhere and let them know if there’s any arrhythmia and I don’t know if it’s India or Indiana, I can’t remember.

    Kristi Schiller 23:21

    And so it lets them know if there’s any, you know, arrhythmia or anything like that. And so she’s like, I just feel like this is there’s something else. I’m not sure what well I went back after I was released from the hospital, I went back for some more meetings. And I met with her and the department head.

    Kristi Schiller 23:45

    And then they did some tests and I came back 10 days later, I remembered my vascular neurosurgeon that I looked at the department head and I said thank you so much for taking time out of your day. I can only imagine how you know busy you are. I said your office is lovely.

    Kristi Schiller 24:06

    She kind of looked at me and my husband’s well you remember Dr. Jones? I’m so sorry. I said did I meet you in the hospital? He said you spent two hours with her less than a week and a half ago here in this office. I said I’ve never been in this office.

    Kristi Schiller 24:32

    And so little the short term has really given me a hard time so she looks at me that day and she said I think you’ve had another stroke. I said how can you tell and she said I just want to go and have another MRI. (inaudible) they order when the medical center. It’s considered speedy if you can get it 10 days, I mean, it’s such a big place.

    Kristi Schiller 25:03

    And I went, and they lined me up for another one. And I came back a few days later, early in the morning, and the stroke had moved to my brainstem or not moved, but another stroke, a pons. Right on the brainstem.

    Kristi Schiller 25:22

    And again, they put me back in the hospital, ran more tests another series of everything, and still can’t find anything. So I said, you know, a million and a half dollars worth a test later, it’s a two cent baby aspirin, I feel like that keeps me alive every day.

    Intro 25:42

    If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. Like now long will it take to recover? Will I actually recover? What things should I avoid? In case I make matters worse, and doctors will explain things that obviously, you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask.

    Intro 26:06

    If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you it’s called a seven questions to ask your doctor about your stroke.

    Intro 26:25

    These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition, they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery. Head to the website now, recoveryafterstroke.com and download the guide. It’s free.

    Bill Gasiamis 26:44

    So, you know, this whole time do you think you were going to the doctor and giving them the wrong information? Of course, you weren’t telling them that you’re having a stroke if you didn’t know that much. But were you being kind of were you underplaying what was happening to you, therefore, maybe, unintentionally misleading them and then making it harder for them to know what was going on with you?

    Kristi Schiller 27:15

    No, no, because I was coming back. You know, I came back three times in four or five months for the same thing. So how much blood can you pull? And of course that didn’t show anything? Except a healthy girl.

    Bill Gasiamis 27:34

    Yeah, and that’s the problem when you diagnose somebody, by the way, they look on the outside. And I suppose when you’re at the doctor’s appointment, your amnesia is not there. Everything is okay, most of the time is that right?

    Kristi Schiller 27:50

    Well, the short term was affected. The, what they diagnosed is the amnesia, that’s usually about or a little episode. Usually that affects someone, two to maybe five hours. So it’s an it’s where they say, to have it more than maybe two or three times. So again, I just thought, it’s my short term memory, So I started loading up on vitamins.

    Bill Gasiamis 28:28

    You do what you can and you make decisions, and you look at the internet, and you try and solve your own problem. And COVID is a real issue because a lot of people are not going to the hospitals, and not getting serious help when they need it because they are afraid of COVID or there’s an over demand for hospital beds or whatever. And people are going well it’s not that important, I haven’t got COVID or probably don’t have COVID.

    Kristi Schiller 28:54

    Right. And I mean, I live in the middle isolate on our ranch. And so I just thought, well, as long as I’m out here, I’m safe. And I mean, I dreaded just going to see my regular doctor. And, you know, there wasn’t, you know, and I came straight from the parking lot and went straight, like I waited.

    Kristi Schiller 29:14

    And I just kept thinking I just don’t want to catch COVID. And that was the whole reason when someone said, why don’t you go to the hospital right away? Well, you know, and when, maybe let’s say I test negative for COVID. They’re gonna say we have a lot of really sick people here. We’re gonna have to put you over here and we’ll get to you when we get to, you know, and so I just didn’t want to be put in that position.

    Bill Gasiamis 29:41

    Yeah, how would you know? You don’t know. So how are you going through life and managing your life? So you got a little daughter, and how are you getting through that? Because I imagine with these episodes that you’re having, you’re involved, your daughter’s around like that’s happening with her around, haw’s she managing it? What is she feeling?

    Kristi Schiller 30:04

    Well, she is 15 and a half. And so she in America, we get our driver’s license, at least in Texas, when you’re 16. So the doctor they wrote her letter that she can get hers early. She’s like, sorry, you had to take one for the team Mom, I get my driver’s license early.

    Kristi Schiller 30:26

    There’s that. I’ve had a little, a few bouts with just seizures. I guess maybe, you know, I probably had maybe a half a dozen. And I had never had that before prior to this. And, you know, I it’s just you kind of just don’t know when it’s coming on.

    Kristi Schiller 30:50

    And they are not like a grandma. But all the free thing you’re hearing sounds like it’s kind of at a distance. And then I know that wherever I am, I need to even when I’m sitting down and need to lay flat. Because it’s about to happen.

    Bill Gasiamis 31:13

    Do you you talk about it so matter of fact? Is a concerning? Is there any fear there? Like what’s going on for you, though?

    Kristi Schiller 31:22

    Of course, I mean, I’m petrified. I mean, I feel like, I’m not even middle age yet. So you know that, you know, you have so much life left to live. And, you know, I’m not really supposed (inaudible) drive. Now, my ranch is big enough that I’ll putz around and get in my car and go to different parts of it.

    Kristi Schiller 31:54

    And every now and then, if I need something that’s close by the grocery store, whatever, I’ll sneak to town. But yet my family has an app. It’s like, you know, it’s kind of like being under house arrest. Ding ding ding she left the ranch. And where are you? And they’ll you know, you need to come back home. Okay.

    Bill Gasiamis 32:16

    Are you consenting to that or are they doing that under duress?

    Kristi Schiller Finding A Reason

    Kristi Schiller 32:20

    Yes. And we know I’m consenting to it. But it’s just, I would never say why me I was because I was in broadcasting for years. I started a charity that is now global. And so maybe a higher being or something in this world decided, you know, what, if this is going to happen to someone, I’m going to give it to her.

    Kristi Schiller 32:50

    Because she can be a voice. We just have to find out what it is I’m going to be a voice for. But I just feel that there’s and I’ve been able to reach out to other people like in facebook groups that are kind of, you know, younger, or or just going through similar symptoms.

    Kristi Schiller 33:11

    You know, I’ll go on to say, Does anybody else? You know, what happens when you experience these seizures? Do you feel nausea afterwards? Do you feel is your head hurting? How long should I go, you know, with my head hurting like this? What’s not normal? Because none of it’s normal.

    Kristi Schiller 33:30

    But has anybody else experienced that? And it’s really, I’ve really met some really interesting people. And, and for the longest time, I was really embarrassed that I didn’t know it. This is what was happening to me. And they were like, how could you not will? I went to a doctor.

    Kristi Schiller 33:55

    And they didn’t know. And they sent me back home. And he agreed, you know, maybe it was allergies. And I called my gynecologist. She’s like, Well, you seem fine. But when it would happen, it was severe. And so, you know, I keep trying to find the positive. Maybe this has happened to me, because vocally, I can handle it. I don’t know. I am just trying to find the positive in it every day.

    Bill Gasiamis 34:32

    Yeah, I think that’s a great thing to do. I think doing that does help to focus the mind because there’s a lot of things that we can worry about after these types of situations. And that doesn’t make it better. That makes it worse, because emotionally mentally, that impacts your physical, your physiological state.

    Bill Gasiamis 34:52

    So it’s definitely better to look for the silver lining if there is one and it may be hard to find but at least you’re focusing on trying to find it. And if it does pop up, you’ll see it you’ll, you’ll go well, okay, that’s what it’s about for me. And it might take a while and some people that are going through the hard times.

    Bill Gasiamis 35:12

    They are struggling with that they’re focusing on why me they’re focusing on this shouldn’t be happening to me, or what did I do to deserve this? Or that kind of stuff? You’re born, you’re alive. That’s all you did. And that’s part of being alive, you have to go through shit sometimes.

    Bill Gasiamis 35:29

    And unfortunately, sometimes the shits not pleasant and, and hangs around for longer than you want it to. So you just have to look for the silver lining. And kind of that was for me, what kept me going. I had three brain hemorrhages over three years, and then brain surgery.

    Bill Gasiamis 35:46

    And for me, it was the whole exact same thing. It’s like, what can I do? That’s going to make it better? How can I support myself? How can I get through this? What can I learn from this? And and that made it so that I didn’t focus on? I wonder if I’m going to have another one? And when will the next one be? and all that kind of stuff. And I just made I prepared? You know, I love this saying I’m not sure exactly who says it, but it’s like, expect the best and prepare for the worst?

    Kristi Schiller 36:18

    Yes, absolutely. And no, I say if it’s my time, it’s my time, I don’t want it to be my time. But I’m definitely going to use, and it’s been a wake up call, again, they haven’t figured out what’s causing this. But it’s been definitely been a wake up call that if somebody means something to you call them or go see them.

    Kristi Schiller 36:49

    And you know, tell people how you feel? Or if there’s something that you want to do, do it. Because this is not a dress rehearsal. I mean, we’re here. And I still keep thinking that, you know, after my second lumbar puncture, I was like, there’s got to be a reason that I mean, I’ve got the best doctors in the world.

    Kristi Schiller 37:19

    And if you know, all the surgeons standing around half a dozen of them are still scratching their head. When it happens, I don’t know if it’s just gonna be Wow, we didn’t think of that or I had been tested for MS for lupus, jak 2, Lyme disease, Moyamoya. I mean, the list is just so long.

    Kristi Schiller 37:51

    And you know, for brain cancer for tumors for and I’m having another CAT scan and a few days. And, you know, it’s just that many experts and that many pieces of fine equipment, you know, whatever it is that they use, and all come back scratching their head.

    Bill Gasiamis 38:14

    At some point, there’ll be an outcome. You seem to take it all in your stride though, like, Is this how you always are? Are you just cool calm and collected? Because this is really… Is it just a facade?

    Kristi Schiller 38:30

    Well, no, I mean, I’m pragmatic, but at the same time, if we don’t know what it is? I don’t know what it is. I’m going to whine about.

    Bill Gasiamis 38:43

    Yeah, cool.

    Kristi Schiller 38:45

    I mean, if it were just said, Look, you have, you know, a tumor in your brain and we didn’t see it and it’s pressing. I’m like, okay. At least now, at this point, we could go somewhere with it and say, Okay, who is the best at what? And we just can’t get that far. And like I said, it’s been almost 9, 10 months. And you know, we don’t know what it is. So I don’t know what I have to worry about. I mean, if if I don’t know what it is, I can’t really bitch about it.

    Bill Gasiamis 39:19

    Yeah. Is it a little bit of control what you can and let go of what you can’t type of thing?

    Kristi Schiller 39:30

    Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, look, you know, at the end of the day, all of a sudden you wake up and you say I’m not the center of the universe. Shocker. But I’m not. And you In fairness, as Dr. Gard told me in the beginning, I was really I was panicking. I was having panic attacks.

    Kristi Schiller 39:56

    And every time I start to stutter, or something like that, that I’m like, Okay, is it coming? Then you start anticipating it. And she’s like, I’m throwing, and I bet I text her more days in a week than I do my husband. And I’m like, Hey, have we thought about this? I just saw this.

    Kristi Schiller 40:20

    And she’s like, yes, we tested for that. Okay. Well, have we thought about having my water tested? She goes how long have you been drinking that water. And I was like, 15 years of this Ranch, she said, It’s not the water.

    Kristi Schiller Starting A Journal


    Kristi Schiller 40:25
    Okay. I mean, but you can spend your whole life. Yeah, that can be your job. I kind of rather you know, I started journaling on what, really, and I had to, because if not, I’d forget certain things. And so, before I was even diagnosed, I, my short term was so bad. So if you and I were sitting down having dinner, and you proceeded to tell me a story about what happened you.

    Kristi Schiller 41:17

    And maybe you didn’t know that I was sick, I’d say do you mind, and I take out my little, my little pad. And I start taking shorthand while you’re talking. Because that’s how fast my memory could leave me. And so, you know, I would just start the bullet points of what somebody was saying.

    Kristi Schiller 41:43

    So I could be sitting at a table with a dining table 10 or 12 people, I’d pull up my little pad and I remember I didn’t one time and didn’t explain it to someone they say are we boring you?

    Kristi Schiller 41:54

    I said no. So then I explain the whole thing. And they felt bad. You know, I get to wear water. I, you know, I say I’m gonna drink a gallon of water a day I try to everyday when I start out. That’s my goal. I don’t actually ever hit it. Because water is pretty boring.

    Bill Gasiamis 42:14

    Yeah, and that’s a lot of water.

    Kristi Schiller 42:16

    That’s a lot of water. But I’m thinking if I can just flush out of my system. I mean, we wear sunscreen as a preventative. Think about it, the things that we do, we brush our teeth with fluoride as a preventative.

    Kristi Schiller 42:33

    You may or may not take a flu shot or a COVID shot to protect us. And you know, sometimes I feel like I’m swinging without a net. What am I doing wrong? They told me nothing. But what am I doing, that’s not protecting myself?

    Bill Gasiamis 42:51

    I agree with them, that you aren’t doing anything wrong. And what you’re doing is trying to solve a problem that it may be is not in your hands to solve, but you’re going about it the right way. I think you’re going okay, so what can I control? What What can I do? And if I’m not doing anything?

    Bill Gasiamis 43:11

    If drinking a gallon of water is okay, unless I’m not drinking a gallon of wine. Do you know what I mean? Like, it’s like, yeah, you’re doing something, and you’re not making it worse. And that is a really good thing. And same with me, I was out to dinner last night with some friends.

    Bill Gasiamis 43:35

    And we’ve known each other for two and a half, three years. And still, every time we go to dinner, they asked me about we’re going to grab a wine Do you want one and every time I say no, I don’t drink anymore, and I can’t drink. And we go through this whole thing every single time.

    Bill Gasiamis 43:53

    And basically, what I haven’t said to them is, is I’m doing the things that I can do that doesn’t make my situation worse. I’ve never explained it like that to them. And that’s what I’m doing and drinking wine. I enjoy it. And I love the taste of wine. I love the way it makes you feel during a meal.

    Bill Gasiamis 44:12

    But I don’t like what it does to me post-stroke and how it makes me feel makes me feel like I’m having another stroke. And if I’m going to have an if I’m going to have a wine, and I’m going to think about the possibility of having another stroke, or it’s going to trauma, bring up a trauma from my previous three episodes. So that takes the fun out of it. Like there’s no point.

    Kristi Schiller 44:37

    Because now you’re focused on that wine.

    Bill Gasiamis 44:38

    Yeah, and I’m creating that anxiety which makes everything worse and there’s no need to go down that path. So I love what you’re doing. You’re taking matters into your own hands in the areas that you can control. They’re minor, but they really major in how they make you feel emotionally and how they make you feel some control in the situation. Would you agree with that?

    Cutting Out Sugar

    Kristi Schiller 45:04

    Absolutely. You know, I try to cut out, I don’t know if anybody’s capable of cutting out sugar, because it’s in so much. But you know, it was a wake up call, like the added sugar, I was never a soft drink drinker.

    Kristi Schiller 45:24

    But just sugar is in everything. And so that gave me anxiety, my doctors like, okay, added sugar, let’s just don’t do this overnight, because you’re going to drive yourself, you know, to a point of anxiety that you can’t come back from.

    Kristi Schiller 45:44

    She said, but try to watch, don’t add any extra to it, you know, just try to awareness. And I want to say that the reds and then the average American has like an extra 18 pounds of sugar a year in the eye is something that I never would have guessed that. And again, it’s trying to get enough sleep. My sleep, it’s been very, very hard for me to fall asleep.

    Kristi Schiller 46:14

    And then you kind of feel just so lethargic in the morning. And, you know, I you know, it’s it’s the anxiety, I wouldn’t say it’s so much um, the and I have little bouts of I’ll go ahead and say I have little bouts of anger. Like if somebody so let me do that for you. Okay, I’m not an invalid.

    Kristi Schiller 46:40

    And then I’m wonder how do other people look at me now? You know that that has to be around me all the time. I don’t think people think twice about it. They don’t know me know, that, you know, I was having these little fits of just pissed off. And I didn’t know what I was mad at.

    Kristi Schiller 46:59

    And so I went back and I said, look, I don’t want to seem ungrateful. And I told my doctor, I said, I’m just having these I don’t know what I’m mad at. But it’s like, everything irritates me. She said, that’s part of the stroke.

    Kristi Schiller 47:15

    Like, Oh, okay. Okay, so that part wait, wait, I’m normal? She’s, well, in that sense that you’ve had a stroke, that part of it is normal. And in certain days, like I made sure today that I went to bed early last night. By the time you and I were going to meet today that I had lots of rest.

    Kristi Schiller 47:37

    Because after a certain time of the day, if you didn’t know me, you think Shinsen of country club day drink, you know, my words will start to come out. And if I say, you know, I need a glass of water, it will be dry. Water are the words. It’s what I’m feeling.

    Kristi Schiller 48:09

    And maybe the words are jumbled. And I was at a salon after I got to the hospital a few weeks ago. And there was a woman next to me. And underneath my sweater, I had my hospital band. And I had, I don’t know, I didn’t want to take it off on it there and I pulled it down.

    Kristi Schiller 48:31

    And I have a big clear water jug thing with me. And I’d put some of the flavored sugar free, you know, Berry or whatever is in there. And so it kind of looked pink. And I was having a hard time explaining to the person cutting my hair. And I see this woman looking at me and I could feel her looking and I could see her in the mirror.

    Kristi Schiller 49:00

    And I would try to drink more. I thought okay, I’m more hydrated, because that’s what’s happening. And then I saw her kind of roll her eyes. I was like, bitch, I had a stroke. She’s slike, and I’m like I don’t know where that came from. And she goes, Oh, I wasn’t judging and I go yeah you were you thought I was drunk?

    Bill Gasiamis 49:21

    She thought you were drinking Rose.

    Kristi Schiller 49:24

    She thought I was drinking Rose and she was well that’s what it looked like. And I was like well just goes to show you that looks can be you know it’s not everything you think it is. And then she and I got a good laugh out of it. I saw her looking hard at me for maybe 15 minutes. I was like I just I can’t do this. I’m the internal anxiety is so bad.

    Bill Gasiamis 49:46

    Yeah. People who haven’t been what we’ve been through judge, and that’s okay. Because they they ignorant they don’t know any better. And that’s me that’s what who I was, that’s what I was like before this. So at the moment, it’s like, oh, okay, you’re just like me before anything bad happened to you.

    Bill Gasiamis 50:09

    So alright, I get it, no worries, please stay that way stay ignorant that’s better for you and your health long term. And it’s a short way to find out what it’s like to be a stroke survivor is to have one that’s done away. And it’s, you don’t want to know that way. You’d rather not know my thing.

    Bill Gasiamis 50:29

    My biggest issue is that nobody understands what I’m going through, other than stroke survivors, and my they really don’t. And that was frustrating me at some point, because I couldn’t explain my needs. But then I realized that I would never want them to know what I’m going through. Because there’s only one way for them to really know. It’s like, forget about it.

    Bill Gasiamis 50:52

    I’ll just educate them when the time arises. And I won’t judge them back for being judgmental to me. I’ll just go, alright, let me explain something to you. And then we’ll bring everybody together on the same page that I can stand. And then maybe next time they see somebody who’s struggling, and they won’t automatically assume that the person is drunk.

    Bill Gasiamis 51:14

    They might go, Hey, do you need a hand? Because often, we even get judged as stroke survivors going to hospital I have heard so many stories where a stroke survivor will go to a hospital with symptoms of a stroke on a Friday or a Saturday night. And the hospital goes, wow, I mean, here is another drunk guy, another drunk girl. They’ve just come out from being out on the town. Just put them in a corner and make them wait. I was like oh that’s rough, you know.

    Kristi Schiller 51:46

    I don’t know if you can see this.

    Bill Gasiamis 51:49

    Yeah, yeah.

    Kristi Schiller 51:53

    Can you see that?

    Bill Gasiamis 51:54

    The photo of your brain there? And then there’s a yeah, there’s a white spot?

    Kristi Schiller 52:00

    Oh, yeah. Okay. So that was one of the larger ones. And I have to tell you, when she first pulled that out, and I saw that it seemed like my whole life froze for those 10 seconds, because I thought maybe it’s brain cancer.

    Kristi Schiller 52:22

    I mean, I didn’t know. And I felt almost relieved when they said you’ve had strokes. I was like okay. I mean, you know, I hate to be that way, but I’m not taking the strokes, lightly. But I was so relieved. And I can just remember crying thinking, so it’s not brain cancer.

    Kristi Schiller 52:51

    And she said, you know, because I was having such a hard time processing everything. And she said, No, she said, but she immediately said, we know it’s the hole in your heart. Well, so then they told me did some more tests. And a cardio surgeon came back and said, I can repair the hole in your heart, it will only prevent the strokes, 2% to 4%. Well, then why bother?

    Bill Gasiamis 53:19

    Yeah, I’ve heard that before for a lot of people that sometimes they avoid surgery. And I’m not a doctor or an expert, but sometimes I understand why it’s okay to if you’re going to do it to live for a little while and manage it with medication because you’re under duress already.

    Bill Gasiamis 53:40

    You know, there’s a heart surgery, maybe that’s going to happen, you know, maybe the doctors have got a good plan about that. And it’s something that you can settle in the future. This happened to you. It’s very fresh and very early, you immediately wanted to come on and share you said you wanted to raise awareness like who do you hope is listening to this that are going to go oh okay I should pay attention to Kristi?

    Kristi Schiller 54:08

    Well, between all the avenues on social media. I have about a million followers, and I’m going to make sure everybody that is out there gets a copy of this. I mean, just because if it can happen to somebody, that was my age. I’ve never had a cigarette in my life. I’ve never had a beer in my life.

    Kristi Schiller 54:30

    I mean, you know, yeah, I like sweets, but I’m not sure cheesecake will kill you. I mean, I guess if you have enough of it. But you know, I’m just trying to think of like vices and things like that. I mean, I couldn’t think of any enough. And then you beat yourself up that am I just that damn dumb that I didn’t see it?

    Kristi Schiller 54:53

    And when somebody goes and you didn’t go to the hospital? Well, yeah, hindsight. 2020 I wish I would know exactly, but as far as I’m concerned, I thought okay, and then I talked one of my dear friends suffers from migraines, and she has since she was young. And I was like, almost wanna throw up it hurt so bad she goes yep, migraine well in a way it was, but that was a byproduct of what was happening. So I just counted it as migraine.

    Importance Of Stroke Awareness


    Bill Gasiamis 55:28
    And if you had known somebody that had a stroke beforehand, you might have thought, Okay, I wonder if it’s a stroke. But you never knew anybody that had a stroke before. And if you had, you never had a deep conversation with them to find out what it was like.

    Kristi Schiller 55:42

    I have, like my grandmother died of a stroke when I was like four. I mean, I expected something very elderly, and maybe had other pending issues. I really didn’t think about like I said, I didn’t know anybody or if I did, I wasn’t aware that they had. But you know, I still get a little tongue tied, trying to get it out.

    Kristi Schiller 56:11

    But you want people to be aware, what if I had caught this earlier? You know, what if I had gone in and said, I’m going to see I’m insistent, because I didn’t know about neuro vascular neurologists, you know, and I probably wouldn’t have gone, you know, to directly to a specialist, but at least would have gone somewhere I would have demanded a cat or an MRI or, and said, You know, I really think that there’s something more.

    Kristi Schiller 56:46

    And so when they were like, you know, you’re healthy, your blood pressure was very low, I’ve always had very low blood pressure. Um, and as I submitted slow, that’s good, right? And, you know, my neurologist said, you’re on your low life, that it’s just as bad as when you have high because it’s fighting just as hard to try to, you know, keep up.

    Kristi Schiller 57:12

    So if I would have looked at those signs, and then never having migraines, and then all of a sudden loss of words, the short-term memory is what scared me the most. And the, my rock in my foundation, her name is Kristen, will call and tell me something. And she’s in a few hours there, she said, Are you gonna send me that?

    Kristi Schiller 57:40

    And I was, like, send you what? She was we just talked about it, and I have to go through my phone. So we had a 45 minute conversation about something. And then I thought, okay, and I was like, maybe I had dementia. And my doctor said it doesn’t happen that way. You know, that kind of that look when they’re you know, when they’re away?

    Bill Gasiamis 58:08

    Yeah. When they look at you and it’s like, you’ve been on the internet again, Kristi.

    Kristi Schiller 58:13

    And you don’t catch dementia or you know, whatever it is that you know, it doesn’t happen that fast.

    Bill Gasiamis 58:21

    Apologies for the abrupt ending to the show. This interview was plagued by technological problems. And the internet connection was sketchy at best. It was our second attempt at recording, so we just called it a day at the end of the second loss of signal.

    Bill Gasiamis 58:38

    Now regardless of the ending, I do hope you enjoyed the show and I would really appreciate it if you could leave the show a review as it encourages search engines to rank the show higher in the search results making it possible for recent stroke survivors and their caregivers to find other people that have already been through what they are going through right now. And that might make their stroke recovery that little bit better. Thanks again for being here and see you on the next episode.

    Intro 59:09

    Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals opinions and treatment protocols disgusting any podcast or the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed.

    Intro 59:26

    All content on this website at any linked blog, podcast or video material controlled this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis the content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing.

    Intro 59:43

    It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice. The information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances or health objectives did not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease, for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional.

    Intro 1:00:04

    Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional, your doctor or your rehabilitation program based on our content. If you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition, please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional if you are experiencing a health emergency or think you might be, call triple zero if in Australia or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance or go to the nearest hospital emergency department.

    Intro 1:00:28

    Medical information changes constantly. While we aim to provide current quality information in our content. We did not provide any guarantees and assume no legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, currency or completeness of the content. If you choose to rely on any information within our content, you do so solely at your own risk. We are careful with links we provide however third party links from our website are followed at your own risk and we are not responsible for any information you find there.

    The post Raising Awareness About Stroke – Kristi Schiller appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

    1 hr 2 min
  • Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu And Stroke – Chris Martin

    Chris Martin experienced a stroke because of a carotid artery dissection as a result of repeated traumas to his neck while participating in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu also known as BJJ.

    Socials: 

    Instagram 

    YouTube

    Recent blog article with signs to watch for

    Bizjitsu

    Link to the referenced article

    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/1544316718816133

    Highlights:

    02:08 Introduction

    03:58 Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and Stroke
    09:31 Lack of Awareness lead to ischemic stroke
    16:49 BJJ Pros and Cons
    21:56 Signs of Carotid Artery Dissection
    26:38 Waking Up In The Hospital
    31:44 Lack of Precautionary Measures
    38:25 Possible Misdiagnosis
    44:56 Duplex Ultrasound
    55:34 Delayed Strokes
    1:08:26 Bonds Forged In BJJ

    Transcription:

    Chris Martin 0:00

    Then the last thing I’m never going to forget, the last thing they said. They said to me, it’s like, can you move any part of your right body? Can you move that leg at all? In my mind, I took everything and I was like.

    Chris Martin 0:17

    And my leg just twitched. And then I just remember the doctor say, put him out, put him out. Boom, I was out. Next thing you know, I wake up in the hospital, like literally, like, wake up in the hospital bed and my family’s all around me. And I’m looking around and I’m like, oh shit, I survived. And then I started down like well, okay, I got the disability insurance policy.

    Intro 0:49

    This is the recovery after stroke podcast, with Bill Gasiamis helping you navigate recovery after stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:03

    Hello, and welcome to recovery after stroke a podcast full of answers, advice and practical tools for stroke survivors to help you take back your life after a stroke and build a stronger future.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:14

    I’m your host three times stroke survivor Bill Gasiamis. After my own life was turned upside down and I went from being an active father to being stuck in hospital. I knew if I wanted to get back to the life I loved before my recovery was up to me.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:27

    After years of researching and discovering a learn how to heal my brain and rebuild a healthier and happier life than I ever dreamed possible. And now I’ve made it my mission to empower other stroke survivors like you to recover faster, achieve your goals and take back the freedom you deserve.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:43

    If you enjoy this episode and want more resources, accessible training and hands on support, check out my recovery after stroke coaching membership created especially for stroke survivors and caregivers.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:56

    This is your clear pathway to transform your symptoms, reduce your anxiety, and navigate your journey to recovery with confidence, head to recoveryafterstroke.com To find out more after this podcast.

    Introduction


    Bill Gasiamis 2:08
    But for now let’s dive right into today’s show. This is episode 175. And my guest today is Chris Martin, who is a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu enthusiast and coach who experienced an ischemic stroke due to repeated traumas to the carotid artery sustained in the sport while he was being choked and strangled by his opponents.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:37

    Now Chris is on a mission to raise awareness in the BJJ community about the risks of the sport. But more importantly is interested in raising awareness about how to spot the signs of stroke, and how to take action fast if you suspect someone at a Brazilian Jujitsu event, or BJJ event may be showing the signs of stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 3:03

    Since this is a stroke prevention interview, please share it far and wide. If you have been meaning to share an episode of the podcast and haven’t got around to it yet. This is the one to share whether you are listening on a podcast app or watching on YouTube. There has never been a better episode to share.

    Bill Gasiamis 3:23

    It would mean so much to me, and it might just help save a life. Thank you, Chris Martin, welcome to the podcast.

    Chris Martin 3:31

    Thank you. How are you?

    Bill Gasiamis 3:32

    Man I’m doing well. I really appreciate you reaching out because this topic that we’re going to talk about today is something that’s really close to my heart and something that I’m worried about since my own stroke and since learning about dissections in arteries, but before we get into that part of it, tell me a little bit about what happened to you?

    Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Stroke

    Chris Martin 3:58

    I think the best way to summarize it is a lack of awareness in what I do and first, my hobby is what we’re going to talk about today Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and I’m very passionate about it.

    Chris Martin 4:18

    I found it in 2008 at a time in my life where I needed it, and it did change my life in many ways and I’m not going to go down that rabbit hole. However for the general listener, I want them to understand what Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is.

    Chris Martin 4:41

    Is a martial art that is used the best way I can describe it is to use the least energy and exertion to manage your output and put the end goal in a combative situation using Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is to get to the back and finish with a strangle.

    Chris Martin 5:14

    In the sport, the misconception is you hear the word chokeholds. But in the medical field chokes and strangles are two different things. What we do is we try to strangle our friends as quick as we can.

    Chris Martin 5:33

    And they tap out when they feel like there’s no way that they can get out of the strangle. And if they feel like they’re going to maybe pass out, go to sleep. And they usually, my friends are pretty crazy.

    Chris Martin 5:53

    And they will wait as long as they can until they almost go to sleep, or they might go to sleep many of them, we do this to each other about six to seven days a week, sometimes twice a day.

    Bill Gasiamis 6:09

    And when you say strangling, what you’re actually doing is you’re placing pressure, either with your arms or with your legs onto the neck, and that impacts the vertebral or the carotid arteries and decreases the blood flow to the brain. So they have no choice but to go limp.

    Chris Martin 6:35

    Yep, and they go and, the more we do this as Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu practitioners who are very passionate about this, we find even sneakier and sneakier and more efficient ways to apply pressure to the vertebrals and the carotids.

    Chris Martin 6:56

    Sometimes we wear these fancy outfits that looks like pajamas, they’re called Gis, and they have long straps that we can pull out. It will look like a karate kimono. However, we use it to wrap around each other’s necks that has collars we use to hold the collars, pull, strangle, apply pressure at the same time as we’re putting knees in the back of the vertebrals.

    Chris Martin 7:24

    We are ripping bow and arrow chokes, we are pulling materials around the person’s neck, I should have worn Gi I could go get one if I need to. But you get the picture. And it’s a relatively fast growing sport, because of how addictive and how healthy it is from the standpoint of mental health and physical health.

    Chris Martin 7:53

    So who I am is somebody who fell in love with Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu in a time of my life where I needed something from a mental standpoint, and a physical standpoint, I was not in a good place in my life at 28 years old.

    Chris Martin 8:09

    And I’m 43 now and I have not stopped doing what I love. However, in 2017 it was during a periodic two months of pretty heavy strangling with my friends working on specific chokes to the back, making our chokes more efficient.

    Chris Martin 8:41

    And one day in practice, I was caught in a strangle. And again, like I said, we have the opportunity to either tap or go to sleep. Or in my case, just keep fighting out of it. Try to find a way out because in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu the mindset has always been there’s always a way out.

    Chris Martin 9:08

    And that’s what helps develop your character. Because you learn to overcome adversity through Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu through being strangled and putting yourself in very bad positions that are very uncomfortable. And you do it again and again and again. And it makes you more of a humble human being.

    Lack of Awareness lead to ischemic – Chris Martin


    Chris Martin 9:31
    And that’s the beauty of jujitsu. However, that day in August 2017. I did not tap out. And I was very unaware tha the struggles that I had accumulated over the years could potentially cause a little bit of damage, trauma to my carotid arteries.

    Chris Martin 10:04

    And over time, I had some a little bit of a tear on my left carotid artery. And I did have some signs I learned after I had the stroke because I missed the signs because of the lack of awareness in the sport, and it’s nobody’s fault. It just is what it is.

    Chris Martin 10:36

    And I didn’t tap out however, my partner let go of me when he felt my body just limp. And I just remember the the room spinning that was on my back. I couldn’t communicate, no words were coming out of my mouth.

    Chris Martin 10:57

    Long story short, it was a full ischemic stroke, the clot was on my neck was very large, that had been sitting there for some time, I had not given a time to heal. And that day the torque of the north south choke, applied by my teammate Rob shot the clot to my brain, which immediately caused an ischemic stroke.

    Chris Martin 11:24

    The medical team it’s Frater in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, administered the TPA, they were able to get me to the hospital, within an hour, they had the TPA shot to the brain saved my life.

    Chris Martin 11:43

    And here I am on stroke to recovery podcast, and you’re still recovering, you know, to this day, however, during that time, what happened to me that day didn’t make sense. And while I was in the hospital, it didn’t make sense. And when I was out the month after it didn’t make sense.

    Chris Martin 12:11

    And it put me on a path of research and understanding. And through that journey, I did receive a phone call right after this happened. Because I was on an article came out about it on Jiu-jitsu times.

    Chris Martin 12:34

    And then immediately I got a phone call from somebody who was very interested and he was a former military person. And he was very interested because he had been doing parachuting in the military.

    Chris Martin 12:50

    And he had like double carotid artery dissection, which caused strokes, both sides. And he was like, trying to get back into martial arts, but he just wasn’t sure if it was a good idea.

    Chris Martin 13:01

    And he was telling me how rare this whole thing is. And he said, you need to document what you’re doing. And I said, Okay, so I’m like, I started writing. And then just putting up little blogs.

    Chris Martin 13:19

    And then people started reaching out to me in the martial art community who also had happened to them. And I started interviewing them to learn more about their cases, I would ask, Can I record it? So I can always reference it? Because I’m not going to remember anything in this interview.

    Chris Martin 13:41

    And they, most of them all agreed, yes. So during my time of healing and recovery, I was able to talk to other survivors. And through that conversation, I learned about what happened to them and how it happened.

    Chris Martin 13:59

    Did you have signs? Did you this? And then I started documenting on a spreadsheet. And then let’s put it this way over the past four years, and now here we are, the spreadsheet I stopped counting after over 100.

    Chris Martin 14:17

    And so it’s not as rare as we think, however people are very uneducated, there’s no protocols. There’s some gyms that are just completely brushing it under the rug. There’s some gyms that have had multiple people in the same gym have strokes, and the instructors still are brushing it under the rug.

    Chris Martin 14:40

    And so the hard part for that is that each person who has their stroke they have their story in their head. They look at themselves as a number this is me. But the difference that I see in what happened and then they go about their daily lives. And it’s just that and but what happens is, I get the call from every single one of them.

    Chris Martin 15:11

    And then I form a relationship with them. And I talk to them. And then I even get the bad ones too the ones from the widows, the ones that are still in the wheelchair, the ones that are still in the hospital fighting, you know, and these are people who are on these are jiu-jitsu people.

    Chris Martin 15:37

    They’re different. And no different than, you know, they’re passionate about what they do. It’s just it takes a physical person, it takes somebody who is, it’s okay to get your ass kicked that type of thing and come over and over and over again, like, these aren’t weak-minded people. These are very, very strong-minded people. They do not like to lose.

    Bill Gasiamis 16:08

    They’ve never messed with stroke, that’s the issue and stroke will get the better of a lot of people that are very strong-willed. I think the beauty of jiu-jitsu is it does create a great foundation for overcoming serious adversity in life.

    Bill Gasiamis 16:24

    And the skills can be transferred to stroke recovery, right. And what’s interesting is my son who’s 25, now started BJJ, probably about three or four years ago after it gained popularity because of Mixed Martial Arts, and UFC. And he’s given me the whole, “I did it for my mental health” spiel as well.

    BJJ Pros and Cons

    Bill Gasiamis 16:49

    And it’s really interesting that the lessons that he’s able to obtain about calmness, thinking, not overreacting, and not breathing inappropriately, and focusing on the mind and body connection has really shifted this guy who, in our modern world, was quick to becoming a statistic of anxiety, and maybe even depression or something like that.

    Bill Gasiamis 17:21

    So the camaraderie that he has there, with the people that he trains with, so I see the major upside to a sport like BJJ. And then as somebody who’s experienced three, hemorrhagic strokes, and I’m into my 10th, year of recovery, and I’ve met hundreds of stroke survivors, and widows, and the bad ones, the ones that are still, you know, struggling to get back to some kind of version of life that resembles normality, which they never do.

    Bill Gasiamis 17:55

    Most of us have a different version of what normal is. I hate to discourage my son about BJJ, I hate to say to him, listen, don’t go down this path because of this issue. And as kids what they used to do, my son and his brothers days to choke each other, and smash each other and belt each other.

    Bill Gasiamis 18:21

    And for me, it was like, don’t touch each other’s heads and don’t touch each other’s throats do not do that. Because you can damage arteries, and you can cause strokes, and you can cause long lasting effects. So please don’t do that.

    Bill Gasiamis 18:34

    Now, the other thing I’m concerned about is, is that he might be involved in an incident where he creates a situation for somebody else that ends with them being hospitalized because of a carotid artery of vertebral artery dissection, and then a stroke right?

    Bill Gasiamis 18:52

    And it’s like, there is definitely more that needs to be done. I’m glad you reached out, I’m not glad that you had a stroke. And I’m not glad that it’s happening. But the fact that you’ve taken this stance, where most people sweep it under the carpet, I think it’s really fabulous, because it’s a problem around the world.

    Bill Gasiamis 19:14

    And in Australia, there are many people that my son goes to BJJ with his age and older and younger, but, of course, they’re all his mates, there’s probably about 10 of them that I know. And then there’s other people that are my age in the early 40s and 50s that are going to BJJ or just started.

    Bill Gasiamis 19:32

    And I would imagine that they are completely unaware of this situation as well. Right? So I could reach out right now to at least 15 people that I know personally, that go to BJJ. And I wonder if they know anybody who’s had a stroke or not.

    Bill Gasiamis 19:50

    Due to a sports injury, and then I wonder if they know how it’s been dealt with and how that person is now and whether They’ve managed to come back to BJJ. Or they gave up completely. I imagine that most people who have an injury because of a sport like that would go enough. I’m not coming back to that sport.

    Chris Martin 20:10

    I think most would. But just jumping back into, you know, what I said before is that this is what has changed my life. So, I use this comparison, every time I just see it the most. It’s, if a surfer goes into the ocean, and he goes surfing, and he gets bit by a shark.

    Chris Martin 20:34

    But that’s everything, that was his passion, that’s his lifestyle, he wakes up in the morning there’s coconut juice, you know, skateboards down with his longboard, or he’s got his, everything, the sun is good, like, everything’s great.

    Chris Martin 20:49

    And then he gets attacked by a shark. And, but he lives, and it was a scariest moment of his life. And, but he recognizes, you know, he recognizes the signs, you know, that was a, you know, a night after the storm, you know what I mean? And that’s when the sharks are out, or it’s a low tide.

    Chris Martin 21:10

    You know, now he’s aware of it. And instead of ignoring, and just jumping in and pretending like it would never happen to him, or just not even thinking about it, but it’s something that he loves, will he go back, I would think that the surfer is going to go back in the water, but he’s just going to go back in differently. And that’s kind of how I’ve re-entered the waters from my perspective.

    Bill Gasiamis 21:33

    Yeah. So tell me about what you had to recover from. So you’re in a, you’re rolling with one of your competitors, friends, and you end up going limp, and then you’re out. And then it’s not good. So tell me a little bit about what happened after that. And then we’ll talk about what you had to overcome.

    Signs of Carotid Artery Dissection – Chris Martin


    Chris Martin 21:56
    So I didn’t go out. It was just you’re looking around and you’re trying to sit up, my whole right side of the body was completely like just limp. So I couldn’t move. So I was trying to get up. And the room was kind of spinning around, and it felt like it was just like, slow motion.

    Chris Martin 22:23

    And it was kind of like (spinning sound) and I was trying to communicate like to my they’re all rolling around me, all my teammates. And they thought I was just kind of you know, lightheaded. And it was just, you know, he was just about to go out. You know, because that happens sometimes you get lightheaded sometimes if you don’t tap right away.

    Chris Martin 22:53

    And that’s kind of how it felt it kind of felt like I was kind of in that corridor between being put to sleep at not. But I was like living in the middle somehow. It just wasn’t wearing off, if that makes sense. But the hard part was just not knowing what was happening to me, you know, when it happened.

    Chris Martin 23:16

    You have no control of your right side of your body and you cannot speak you know what you want to say but the words can’t come out. And you’re trying to communicate and you just can’t and the brain is not functioning. And luckily, after about five minutes, they realize something’s not right with this guy.

    Chris Martin 23:37

    And they called my fortunate situation is that I live in we’re here and this happened in Oak Creek, Wisconsin. And Frater is in Wauwatosa, Wisconsin, which is during the middle of the day, like whatever time it was. It was midday sometime it only took, you know, half hour to get there.

    Chris Martin 24:03

    But some of these other stroke survivors they don’t and the reason I say is some places are going to know how to deal with what’s happening here on a higher level. And they’re going to have the right equipment and they’re going to have the right doctors and they’re going to have the right experience and other places might not have access to that because we don’t have cutting edge.

    Chris Martin 24:25

    Like Oak Creek is remotely close to Milwaukee, Milwaukee it’s like a big city. Like Chicago is the big city next to us but like every state’s got their like big city, you know, and that’s where the good hospitals and doctors and everything are. That’s basically where it happened to me so I was fortunate.

    Chris Martin 24:44

    The whole ride in the ambulance, I didn’t know what was going on. I didn’t know what was happening to me. All I was doing was focusing on my breathing. So you know, going back to what you said learning to be calm under pressure. Just I was like basically and like just trying, like I didn’t know.

    Chris Martin 25:06

    I’m like just telling myself, you know, just relax your body, let them take care of you, relax your body. And then you’re, you’re you’re thinking about your kids, you’re thinking about your life insurance policies. That’s all going through your head, you’re coming to terms with things, you’re just, you know. And then I just remember, once they got me into that emergency room, they’re asking me questions.

    Intro 25:35

    If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind, like, how long will it take to recover? Will I actually recover? What things should I avoid in case I make matters worse?

    Intro 25:53

    Doctors will explain things that obviously, you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask. If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you.

    Intro 26:15

    It’s called the seven questions to ask your doctor about your stroke. These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition, they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery. Head to the website. Now, recoveryafterstroke.com and download the guide. It’s free.

    Chris Martin Waking Up In The Hospital

    Chris Martin 26:38

    And the last thing I’m never going to forget the last thing they said. They said to me, it’s like can you move any part of your right body? Can you move that leg at all? In my mind, I took everything and I was like, and like my leg just twitched. And then I just remember the doctor saying put him out, put him out.

    Chris Martin 27:03

    Boom, I was out. Next thing you know, I wake up in the hospital, like literally, like, wake up in the hospital bed and my family’s all around me. And I’m looking around and I’m like, oh shit, I survived. And then I started down like, Well, okay, I got the disability insurance policy.

    Chris Martin 27:26

    I’ve been I’ve been doing insurance for 20 years. So this is all I think about as insurance. So, but that’s what I was thinking about. And then I, I couldn’t speak. You know, they were I was trying to like they were holding up, you know, the things like, chair.

    Chris Martin 27:42

    You know, like I was trying to say the words. I understood everything they were saying. I could read. You know what I mean? But I couldn’t communicate. And then I just didn’t really have any feeling in my right hand. And then from there, it’s like, basically, just how did this like, laid in the hospital, next couple days, what happened?

    Chris Martin 28:06

    This does not make any sense. What’s a stroke? Like, I couldn’t even like I didn’t know what was going on the whole time there. I didn’t know what was going on. And then I got home, I still didn’t know what’s going on. I still didn’t know. Like, I was so naive and ignorant about strokes.

    Chris Martin 28:23

    And I mean, right when I got out of the hospital after a dissection I have a stint to my neck now. After I went back to the doctor, they said the clot was so big, we had to stint it because you need to lay low and blah, blah, blah.

    Chris Martin 28:41

    See, back in the day when people told me to lay low, you know, doctors, you just go and whatever. I’m not gonna lay low. Two days after I get out of the hospital, I’m trying to go to Planet Fitness to try to lift weights. Yeah, I mean, that’s how uneducated I was. And then I realized that night like I’m like, I was on like, I was trying to lift.

    Chris Martin 29:04

    This is not happening. Like I’m like, seriously like, looking back. I’m like, You got to be kidding me. Like I could have had another stroke the clot was still there. And I’m in Planet Fitness throwing around weights, I’m trying to get back to jiu-jitsu shape, because I’m pissed off that something like this would set me back.

    Chris Martin 29:22

    Completely ignorant, completely ignorant. And now after, like I said, I had the conversation with the guy and then he like, told me to start documenting and I started getting serious about it. And I started having all these conversations. I’m like, oh my God, this is some serious stuff.

    Bill Gasiamis 29:42

    Yeah, man, it’s so serious that you know the reality is the world stroke organization says that one in four people will have a stroke in their lifetime. Man, how they have the stroke varies a lot. There’s so many different ways to have one right most of the strokes are preventable, they say about 90% of them are preventable caused by mostly the way we eat, smoking, drinking drugs.

    Bill Gasiamis 30:10

    You know, all the vices that people tend to have. And most of them are self-inflicted just like heart disease and cancers and all that kind of stuff, right. And then, there’s these unfortunate situations where somebody’s driving a car, they have a minor collision, and they get a bit of whiplash. And that causes a carotid artery dissection or a vertebral artery dissection.

    Bill Gasiamis 30:32

    And I’ve interviewed heaps of people that are recovering from that, right. And the situation is, is if one in four people are going to have a stroke in their lifetime, and the United States has, what 300 million people, people, men, that is that 80 million people or more, at some point will have a stroke, right?

    Bill Gasiamis 30:55

    So the situation is so critical. And I started talking about stroke in 2013, after my first two brain hemorrhages in 2012. And I was going to community events and talking about the prevention of stroke. What is it, how to recognize the signs, or what to do if somebody is having a stroke? Okay, the FAST basically the FAST message, right face arms, speech, time.

    Bill Gasiamis 31:24

    And then I’m still doing those presentations. And it’s been nearly 10 years since I started doing them. 9 years next year, and not much has changed. Not many people have an awareness of A somebody having had a stroke. And if they do, they don’t pay enough attention to go, what happens to them.

    Lack of Precautionary Measures

    Bill Gasiamis 31:44

    Usually, it’s associated with older people, and it’s not associated from collisions from a car from whiplash. It’s not associated from sports, or any of that stuff. But in Australia, I’m not sure if you’re aware of the sport, cricket. But we had one of our much loved Australian cricket players get hit in the neck by a cricket ball at a pretty rapid pace, which is like a baseball.

    Bill Gasiamis 32:09

    And he was hit in one of the carotid arteries, he fell and died on the spot that he was hit immediately, because of a massive tear in one of his carotid arteries, and he bled to death in his neck. So even then, there wasn’t much done by the cricket community to raise awareness beyond making a massive headline on TV and throughout the country.

    Bill Gasiamis 32:35

    And probably the cricket playing world where this person had played which would have been England, maybe Pakistan, India, Sri Lanka, all those countries were cricket’s popular New Zealand. But there wasn’t really any more said about the actual cause of the death, which was that the artery was damaged. And that’s not uncommon. And it’s possibly something that can be prevented by neck gear being worn.

    Bill Gasiamis 33:10

    Now, this guy wore headgear. And his head is protected to about his neck, similar to what baseball players wear when they’re facing the pitcher. But beneath there, there isn’t any protection, could you imagine, in a sport like that, it would be quite, maybe it might get in the way of the way they play the game. And it might be a little bit difficult to handle.

    Bill Gasiamis 33:32

    And the lack of times if that has happened in a, in such a large event, where it made news all over the place that the amount of times that that’s happened, that are still rare, but there hasn’t been really a move towards making it safer for somebody around the neck, on the on the side of the body that’s facing the ball.

    Bill Gasiamis 34:00

    So I’m staggered. This is why I started the podcast. I’m staggered by the lack of awareness, the podcast was about me meeting other people so that I could feel better about myself. And here I am 175 or so episodes in. And not much has changed. And I’m not expecting it to change like that overnight. I think we’ve got a long job to do.

    Bill Gasiamis 34:27

    But then here we go. Here’s some bloke that I normally would have nothing to do with from the other side of the planet reaching out to me and says, man, we need to raise awareness about stroke in BJJ.

    Bill Gasiamis 34:37

    And automatically what I’m thinking is, you know, at the BJJ conference that happens annually all over the world. I’m thinking, wouldn’t it be great for somebody to get up and go to that event and say, Hey, guys, let me tell you about stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 34:51

    What happened to me my story what happened to all the other people who I’ve interviewed and let me tell you about what to do if somebody You think on the map is having a stroke? What are the signs? How do we get them help? How do we take action fast and possibly save their life and minimize the damage?

    Chris Martin 35:13

    Yeah, so I completely agree with you, the hard part about that is from what I’ve experienced so far is finding, you know, those organizations that do get all the coaches under the one tent, all at the same time. I did hats off to the BJJ, mental podcast, mental coach podcast, Gustavo Dantas.

    Chris Martin 35:41

    He’s in Scottsdale, Arizona. And two years ago, he did put on, he hosted the coach’s seminar. He tried to get as many coaches in Arizona to come. And it was a number of different speakers. One person spoke about mental health. One person spoke about PTSD.

    Chris Martin 36:08

    And so it was one of those types of, you know, value add, and how do we make our gyms better? What do we do better as a community for Brazilian jujitsu? And how do we make it safer for our participants? Gustavo Dantas put that on. Now I don’t know how many coaches there are probably X amount of schools.

    Chris Martin 36:31

    You know, nowadays, there’s, you know, in every city in every state in the United States, there’s a couple of jiu-jitsu gyms. So that means there’s a lot of coaches, I would guess there’s probably a couple 100 coaches in Arizona, Gustavo was able to get probably 25 of them, which is a great step, you know, but that’s still 175 That you haven’t touched.

    Chris Martin 36:57

    And then, you know, that just leaves it at that day. So, it is a good start, however, what I feel like at where we are, are at a more critical point. What I heard you say is that you are very aware that, you know, traumatic car accidents are what causes a lot of vertebral and the carotid dissections, and that’s the blunt or the excessive force.

    Chris Martin 37:28

    So I have an article. It was a 2019 case study in the Journal of vascular ultrasound journal, and it was written by five authors. Michelle Stedman is listed first. So Stedman and five others put together this case study. And to summarize it, and I’ll just say the discussion is blunt trauma, and it says, “following major trauma” such as motor vehicle crashes, aggressive screening, using computed CTAs have been recommended.

    Possible Misdiagnosis


    Chris Martin 38:25
    So the reason I’m saying telling you this is because from my case studies, many healthy jiu-jitsu practitioners who have had dissections have been misdiagnosed and sent home. And they have not had the right screenings done to them. And so later on, because they did not recognize the signs later on, through activity or day to day, it caused the stroke later on.

    Chris Martin 38:59

    So it was a misdiagnosis. The reason I’m telling you that is because this article goes on to talk about the different strokes, or I’m sorry, the different the different chokes, and again, they’re continuing to call these in jujitsu chokes, but these are really strangles because the choke is when you have something going down your passageway and you’re choking, I can’t breathe.

    Chris Martin 39:29

    We’re not choking each other, we’re not sticking our fingers down each other’s throats. We’re we’re compressing the carotid arteries in the material arteries to constrict blood flow to the brain as quickly and as efficiently as possible. And through that compression is causing what this article is saying is it is the equivalent to motor vehicle crashes.

    Chris Martin 40:02

    Some of these strangles, the one that they talk about is the guillotine, they call it the guillotine drop type maneuver appears to have the same kinetic force, that being involved in a high speed rear end motor vehicle crash also does. So the guillotine is I grab onto your neck, I wrap under either just my other hand, or I come under your shoulder, and then I press down on your head, throw my legs around your back and pull you to the ground cranking the neck and back and at the same time, restricting the blood flow on both carotid arteries.

    Chris Martin 40:44

    This article goes on to say that studies was this article is written because what they’re saying is that because of the increase in mixed martial arts, this was a case study they did on a former Marine drill sergeant, and he was in the Marine Corps teaching combatives and he had a carotid artery dissection, following a guillotine choke.

    Chris Martin 41:29

    So they said that oh, part of the Marine Corps, close combative training involves teaching and demonstrating chokeholds which, for several years, this 46 year old man offered himself up as a practice model. One, of these chokes was the guillotine choke or guillotine drop.

    Chris Martin 42:01

    And that’s the one that they go on to say in the in the article that it’s about the same amount of pressure as a high speed, rear end. So and the reason I’m saying this is because that blunt force from that motor vehicle crash, that when you go into the ER, and you tell them what happens, then they can figure it out.

    Chris Martin 42:31

    And then they do the proper scans, which usually CTAs if they try to do a CAT scan, or an MRI, without contrast, they are not gonna find a dissection. And then if they send that person home, they could have a stroke later on. That’s the danger.

    Bill Gasiamis 42:49

    Okay, so all we need to do is get the message out there. We need to get people to start recognizing what a stroke looks like. And then when they’re taking that person to give them assistance and get help explain that they were being choked.

    Bill Gasiamis 43:02

    And at the same time, I beg your pardon, they were being strangled. And at the same time, that they may have a dissection in one of the vertebral or carotid arteries therefore treat it as a collision of a vehicle.

    Chris Martin 43:21

    Right, aggressively treated. And so a success story that I’ve recently had was an email from a gentleman who had a carotid artery dissection, they took him into the ER, they explained it to the doctors what he was doing.

    Chris Martin 43:41

    The doctors are all gonna be like Oh, yeah jiu-jitsu I know exactly what that is like it’s kind of a new thing. However, he sent me a thank you letter because the doctor went in on Google after listening to what these people said his training partners he googled and you know whatever he found the article that’s ranking right now is going to be if you type in like chokes or strokes from chokes in jiu-jitsu chokes and you know, whatever keywords you want.

    Chris Martin 44:17

    You know, the BJJ Asia did an article just ripping my article saying Hey, Chris Martin, here’s his research. These are what you got to look for like this or that like what doctors need to look for. These are the screening so I’ve documented everything and I put it out there the best that I can like you type in like strokes and jujitsu.

    Chris Martin 44:41

    You should be finding some Chris Martin articles. I’ve put out as much stuff as I can. And the good news is, is that you’re right. That’s what they should do and then the doctors need to treat it accordingly.

    Duplex Ultrasound

    Chris Martin 44:56

    This article The reason it’s very interesting to me is that the fact that they go on to say that, you know, this is somebody this Marine Corps combatives instructor had been, you know, doing this for many years has taken trauma? They did when they brought him in. They used a DUS. It’s a, it’s a, what do you call these things?

    Chris Martin 45:34

    Duplex ultrasound? Have you ever heard of it? No. Yeah, so this duplex all ultrasound is a screening tool that they’re saying, can detect if there’s something funky in the carotid arteries or the vertebral arteries.

    Chris Martin 45:50

    Instead of going in and doing a CTA, every time they’re saying maybe this is a medical device that we could use. And so what they show here, I’m looking at, you know, a clean, you know looks like, and then what this this guy’s look like.

    Chris Martin 46:11

    And you can clearly see in ultrasound, the blue the blockage around like, it’s not as clean. There’s, some, it says elevated velocities in the distal common carotid artery consistent with a high-grade lesion.

    Chris Martin 46:29

    You know what I mean? So what I believe is that most people are not aware this exists. I’m still learning. I mean, I’m learning on a daily basis, it’s been four years. So you know, going back to saying, you know, it’s been 10 years, where are we going with this?

    Chris Martin 46:48

    Man, time flies. And I’m learning on a daily basis, like even just learning about this new screening tool. And, learn reading this case study. This is new to me. But it just shows and then with my I’ve got over 100 cases that I’ve documented, I’ve worked with a doctor who put together a case study with some of the data that I’ve collected, we’re waiting to get that published.

    Chris Martin 47:19

    It’s just basically a case study that shows A here are a number of people, this is what they prevented, presented. This is what it was just kind of making the community aware, like there’s a sport that exists. It’s called Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, and this is what they’re doing.

    Chris Martin 47:37

    And really what this article sums it up the best buys, you know, Stedman, she says, You know, it’s, these guys, these guys and girls, were practicing this, that the physician need to be aware that there’s hard trauma on these necks. They’re not thinking about it like that. But because of that, they’re saying these athletes could benefit from some early detection from using a tool like this.

    Chris Martin 48:06

    And so I’m doing I’m doing more research on these myself. I might buy one for myself, just to have it at my house. Just to check my carotid arteries. Why not? And you know, it’s funny. And it’s here. The reason that it doesn’t exist, that the awareness is not there is because we don’t want to think about this.

    Chris Martin 48:35

    It’s not something that we want to think about. And nobody wants to take the time to think about something that’s not going to happen to them, I wouldn’t want to take any time to think about something that’s not going to happen to me.

    Chris Martin 48:47

    So eventually, what’s going to have to happen if you want my personal opinion, is that similar to safety protocols that in the United States, if you have a factory, you have employees, if you have employees, you have rules that you have to follow for the safety of those employees.

    Chris Martin 49:06

    And then there’s governing organizations such as OSHA, they call it and they have training, manuals and instructions and posters that need to be put up and waivers that need to be filled out to bring awareness to the safety issues inside the workplace. And I don’t see that Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu should be any different.

    Chris Martin 49:30

    I think, then, to get the proper insurance. I think you should have to go through these types of training. Every instructor should not have an option to attend the annual conflict conference. The instructors should be again, if they want this insurance for their gym, they’re going to have to, you know, go through the safety protocols and bring awareness and have the training to understand the signs, not give them an option because none of them are going to take the time to do it.

    Bill Gasiamis 50:00

    Yeah, you know what? There’s there’s a legal nightmare, waiting to explode on somebody who comes across a client or, you know, somebody who’s attending their gym is not made aware of the risks and then ends up injured and then decides to take legal action and sue that organization I recon it’s a legal nightmare about to happen for somebody.

    Bill Gasiamis 50:31

    What’s interesting is the International BJJ Federation, you know, on their website and looking at it now covers the European jujitsu Federation, it covers the pain jujitsu Federation, and a whole bunch of other Federation’s organizations have an anti-doping policy, you know, and they have an anti-doping section on their website.

    Bill Gasiamis 50:59

    The there is a known condition that happens to lumberjacks, okay, which is carotid artery dissections and vertebral artery dissections. Because when they’re cutting down trees, and they’re looking down, and then they want to see where the tree is about to fall, and looking up, it is causing repetitive trauma to those arteries, and it’s causing ischemic strokes.

    Bill Gasiamis 51:30

    So there’s an awareness in that community. And perhaps they don’t really talk about it to this extent, but maybe there is some version of understanding of recognizing the signs of it, because I imagine over the hundreds of years that people have been cutting trees down, that they would have come across this very many times.

    Bill Gasiamis 51:49

    So it is early days for BJJ as a serious sport that has evolved or emerged from Brazil, where the two founders are world-renowned and now it’s starting to be it started to take off because of UFC and because of mixed martial arts. So there would have to be some kind of movement, you know, this is kind of the groundswell I’m feeling.

    Bill Gasiamis 52:22

    But then it’ll have to accelerate at some point. And I think it’ll accelerate by you doing what you’re doing. Us putting out content about it, I want to prevent stroke. But I feel like the least help available for stroke survivors is after they come home. So what happens after I come home, there’s no support there. But of course, I’d rather not have a show, because that meant that there was no stroke survivors.

    Chris Martin 52:46

    Well, that’s the goal right there. Because here’s a thing in jiu-jitsu see most that one in four stat. I believe if you break that down, and you throw everybody in a bucket, you know, most of those people are on the older end, it’s more of a lifestyle-induced stroke. And the jiu-jitsu community’s more of health, fitness, mental health, as well.

    Chris Martin 53:24

    They’re a different step. You know what I mean? So going back to you know, making this a priority, you know, to bring awareness to people I don’t think that it’s fair that people are going into it without knowing but again, I’m also going to say this you can’t fault the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu community for not knowing.

    Chris Martin 54:05

    So it’s you know, we’re really in this and nobody here is I am not here to you know, stop obviously, I’m still training myself you know, I created a lifestyle however there does, you know, there does have to be some some awareness to you know, what we’re doing to each other and what I do know is this.

    Chris Martin 54:37

    So I’m sorry if you you know, don’t have a show anymore because everybody because we do come you know, you and I come together and we figure out the magic formula. And we’ve healed everybody. But in jiu-jitsu. It really can. The stroke is the worst-case scenario.

    Chris Martin 55:00

    The dissection is, sadly enough, it’s probably happening more than we know, because it’s not being diagnosed because it’s very hard to diagnose. And again, it’s, nobody’s gonna run a CTA scan on somebody who just has some minor, you know, dizziness or dehydration type or just doesn’t feel right. Unless there’s a reason, you know.

    Delayed Strokes

    Bill Gasiamis 55:34

    Some of the people I’ve spoken to who have had those collisions, and then had a stroke as a result of a dissection. It happened many, many months later, sometimes 6, 12, 24 months later, and the dissection wasn’t maybe that dramatic at the beginning, but over time, and further movements and further trauma, and then it becomes larger and larger.

    Bill Gasiamis 55:59

    And then eventually, the dissection becomes big enough where it either falls off. And that is what causes the blockage, or because of the blood flow. And what you mentioned earlier in the article, the increased rate of blood flow with a narrowing happens, it changes the way that the blood travels.

    Bill Gasiamis 56:22

    And it creates a high pressure and a low pressure system behind the dissection. And that is what creates the clot. Sometimes the clot gets stuck there and doesn’t dislodge for a long, long time. And then it moves after another trauma or another movement or something that dislodges it, right?

    Bill Gasiamis 56:41

    So you’re right. It’s, difficult to link the two because the person who experiences the stroke might not happen when they’ve been to BJJ it might have been two years after they’ve stopped going to BJJ. And they’re wondering, you know, how did this happen to me, but the the major trauma happened when they were at BJJ, perhaps right?

    Bill Gasiamis 57:03

    So yeah, yeah. And what’s interesting is, you know, with these emerging sports, you know, NFL in the United States and AFL in Australia are really starting to take seriously CTE, you know, chronic traumatic encephalopathy.

    Bill Gasiamis 57:24

    Which is the multiple collisions of the heads against head, and the concussions that happen and what that’s doing to players and sending them into fits of anger, depression, rage, and some of them are causing serious harm to the community, and to their loved ones to themselves before they end up killing themselves, right?

    Bill Gasiamis 57:51

    So it started to become a serious thing now, but it’s taken so many decades, if you imagine about how long how long, the NFL has been around, and how long AFL has been around in Australia, it’s nearly 100 years or more. And, and, and it’s only now starting to be taken seriously. And that’s because I think there was not enough reach the people like you and I that were doing the kind of work that you’re doing didn’t have these platforms of podcasts, YouTube, social media to share.

    Bill Gasiamis 58:29

    And they weren’t able to raise awareness that fast, and they weren’t able to be taken seriously because there was a lot of money at stake. Imagine now if the NFL was in a position where they had to alter this sports to avoid collisions of the head, it would be a completely different sport. And this is another underlying issue. Right? So BJJ Yeah, you know, imagine being Brazilian jujitsu spectator and then going to BJJ and not saying people getting strangled.

    Chris Martin 59:01

    I mean, what’s interesting about that, though, I and you’re right, so, you know, there’s kind of like, you know, you got different ways to submit the person. And a lot of times it’s arm locks, joint locks of like, you know, wrist lock, an arm lock, what’s really popular these days are knee locks, ankle locks and so that’s a lot of that’s a lot of opportunities right there.

    Chris Martin 59:41

    I so the head’s only one of many. The head, to be honest, is the funnest part. You know, the strangle is the fun part. That’s probably just our primitive nature of you know, that strangle and when you do it in with the key and you really get fancy with wrapping that thing around people’s necks in from different angles and upside down, and you know, you’re basically upside down wrapping gis around people’s necks and arms.

    Chris Martin 1:00:07

    And that’s what we consider fun. And it really is, it’s a puzzle. However, what I’m trying to say is this. What’s interesting though, if you look at the evolution of the police force, I train a couple, I do some private lessons with some Milwaukee police officers. And we just do combative type situationals.

    Chris Martin 1:00:41

    And I show them everything that they can do. And basically, they just can’t touch the neck and the head. So they, you know, it’s still fun to grapple with these guys, you know, we’re going at it and doing different, different moves pulls, you know, takedowns, like, you can still control people and have fun.

    Chris Martin 1:01:07

    I’m not saying that that’s what where we need to go. However, again, even in this paper here, it says that the Marines themselves have their own protocols that the Marine Corps recommends, that training chokeholds and related maneuvers should not be at full force, and never more than five seconds duration during training.

    Chris Martin 1:01:42

    In this case, what happened to this guy, the patient has subjected themselves to repeated exposures over several years, as part of his task as a trainer, which is what I was doing, you know, a lot of us trainers are allowing, you know, hey, you’re having a problem with that choke, do it on me, let me feel it, oh, that’s not tight enough, you need to adjust a little bit more here, no, more torque, you gotta turn your back here, get underneath, crank it, you know.

    Chris Martin 1:02:18

    And so that’s, you know, looking back, there was a lot of trauma to my neck. And so you know, and then once you had so much trauma, that the clot started growing and growing and growing. And so I’m just fascinated by this article that there could be something out there called a duplex ultrasound, that could be something that I could just go around with my training partners. And if we do recognize that there is some type of scar, or a lesion is what it is.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:00

    Increased blood flow and lesion, you’ll see the speed of the blood flow and a lesion. So tell me about you then, man is your neck and your head out of bounds these days?

    Chris Martin 1:03:14

    I mean, out of bounds like no, it’s not I mean, I’ve been playing with fire probably it’s out of bounds from what this guy was doing. Letting people hey, I don’t do that. In practice. We don’t I don’t let people do it on me. So that’s the other thing people understand what the dangers what we have for each other is that in traditional jiu-jitsu practice, we’re choking each other back and forth, in practice, you know, for half an hour before we going to combative training.

    Chris Martin 1:03:55

    So we’re like working the chokes with each other to tighten up our chokes. And so over time, that creates trauma over into the same spots. So it’s like if you think about the same spot because that’s just how like where your hands go on the gi or where their hands going.

    Chris Martin 1:04:17

    So you’re working the same spot so I don’t let people do that to me. And if we’re practicing chokes that day. I will go join another two people and I’ll be the third person, unfortunately, I have a stint to my neck and I don’t know the ramifications of that thing breaking I don’t want to find out.

    Chris Martin 1:04:39

    However, in training they do attack my neck. Some of them do. Some of them maybe don’t go like I have a coach who’s more advanced than me. We roll with each other he doesn’t attack my neck he attacks me in other ways.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:58

    The ramifications are huge man. If the stint gets damaged and and then it causes a clot, then it’s an issue, then it could cause another stroke need to be removed and replaced, etc.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:10

    So I’m not here to tell you what to do. But I’m just, you know, just sort of saying what I understand about it right, which is the ramifications are huge people have already spoken about it at length, what the ramifications are damage to a carotid artery, a stint is in a similar situation.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:28

    Now, the fact that you reached out to me suggests to me that you’re on a bit of a crusade, you want to no, let me let me rephrase, it’s not a crusade you’re on a campaign to raise awareness, because that’s definitely what you’re on. Right? And are you getting traction? Are you struggling to get traction?

    Chris Martin 1:05:53

    Getting horrible traction, I’m getting wonderful emails from wonderful people, like one, guy every couple of months, you know, telling me this is great and telling me that, you know, keep my head up and keep doing what you’re doing, kid you know, it’s gonna pay off and really encouraging things.

    Chris Martin 1:06:18

    I had a conversation with, you know, the spouse of somebody who’s died had the conversation of the, you know, sister in law, who her sister’s husband died, you know, doing jiu-jitsu crazy story about that. And she’s telling me, she’s like, you know, we just this one story was really bad.

    Chris Martin 1:06:49

    And, you know, you hear all the stories, and this one, like, sounded like, there was blood involved, I didn’t have blood involved. This gentleman didn’t make it. And what’s very interesting about this story, is that he didn’t make it. And then, like, the family was kind of like, you know, what happened, you know, they can come to terms.

    Chris Martin 1:07:15

    And then the crazy thing is, it’s like, a couple of weeks after his death, you know, the family was trying to come to terms with and a book showed up on the doorstep that he must have ordered, you know, before he passed, and the book was called The Art of Strangles.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:07:39

    Yeah, it is an art and I understand the combative nature of it, and why especially men do it. Now, I’m not a female, and I don’t know any women in the sport. So that’s why I’m not commenting on their behalf, right. But I know why men do because I know why my son does it, I know why my mates participate in BJJ.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:07:59

    They all talk about the positive impact that it has on their self confidence on their ability to overcome challenges on their ability to transform their personal lives by using the skills and applying them to regular life, it’s definitely kept a lot of the people that I know who do it out of anxiety and depression.

    Bonds Forged In BJJ – Chris Martin


    Bill Gasiamis 1:08:26
    And for the people that are listening to this and thinking, Oh, my God, these guys say that they choke their friends. This is something that people do as comrades, they do it as people who are collaborating to teach each other, how to get better at dealing with adversity in life, and then that is transformational in the rest of their lives. They’re not doing it to hurt each other. Although people do get hurt. It’s about actually in growth, and overcoming and becoming better versions of themselves.

    Chris Martin 1:09:05

    And that’s just one small little piece of it because I believe that bigger piece is the coming together and getting better as a community. As a Brotherhood as a Sisterhood. It almost feels like a fraternity. This is like these relationships that are built inside where people are going to battle with each other together every single day.

    Chris Martin 1:09:35

    And then taking that out and going to competitions and fighting others it’s a tribe, it’s more than a fraternity. It’s more than a family. It’s a full on tribe that you don’t get anywhere else. So to have that taken away from you. Do you think most people walk away from this sport?

    Chris Martin 1:09:58

    No, they don’t these crazy people, they don’t they keep doing it. Because it’s that’s how strong it is. All I’m saying is the crusade that I’m on is a awareness crusade it is, it is this, it’s, you just have to bring this to the table to your people who are stepping on the mats and let them know, this is something that can happen.

    Chris Martin 1:10:27

    That’s all you have to say. If this happens, then x, y, z, here are the protocols. Listen, you don’t even have to talk about it, just put it on the wall. And so if it does happen, we have the protocols of what like, like you said, make sure when you, you don’t put the guy in the car, he doesn’t drive he or she doesn’t drive by themselves, you drive them or you call an ambulance if XYZ when you get there, this is what you say.

    Chris Martin 1:10:57

    You tell them you do this, you know, these are the scans that were typically we’ve had success, you know, finding these clots. And you know, so you know, just having that safety protocol it’s gonna save lives 100% because you can’t go on the mat and just not know that this is going to happen.

    Chris Martin 1:11:21

    So going back to my surfer thing. It’s like a surfer going and surfing in a lake. You know, a freshwater lake. That’s, well, it’s let’s just say there’s some fancy waves or like a waterpark. You know, they got the artificial waves. If there’s any sharks in there. Yeah. So you just get in your surfing, then you find out there’s sharks, you know what I mean?

    Chris Martin 1:11:45

    So it’s kind of like it catches you by surprise. That’s what I’m saying. It shouldn’t catch us by surprise. Like, if we know the signs. So the good news is that I have a number of case studies of people who have found that they had a dissection, they treated it by staying off the mats and getting better and healing, and then not having a stroke. Well, there you go. So there’s a win for the team.

    Chris Martin 1:12:11

    So now if everybody can kind of, but this guy was like a logical dude like when he got home, like he did the research. And then he found my articles that oh, maybe I have a dissection. And then he took himself to the doctor, and said, Doc, I think I might have a dissection, here’s why this is what we do.

    Chris Martin 1:12:29

    Then they did the right tests, and then they found it. And then sure as shit it took six months. But he said that he said it went from whatever size to basically gone in six months. So basically, he just had to stay off the mats.

    Chris Martin 1:12:41

    But if he would have done what I did, which is just keep going on the mats and training every day, then I had a stroke he didn’t, so he wins. But I’m glad I helped him when I feel good. I’m a coach for doing that. And that’s basically that’s the crusade I’m on. It’s just Hey guys, here, treat it accordingly, that’s it.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:13:02

    And know the risks. I love it, absolutely love it. So, Chris, where can people find out a little bit more about you and the work that you’re doing?

    Chris Martin 1:13:13

    Yeah, so I’m kind of all over the place, obviously, if you haven’t figured it out through my interview, but the hashtag that you can kind of find me at is BizJitsu, so that’s like my Instagram, I believe my YouTube channel, I have a medium blog medium.com. And that’s also bizjitsu is going to be the username for that as well.

    Chris Martin 1:13:14

    So any of those, you know, my youtube I have, you’ll find different interviews, many of the interviews are posted. So if people are looking for like, they want to hear a story about a like-minded, like, what the signs symptoms were for that student, they can hear it there.

    Chris Martin 1:14:03

    My medium blog is going to have all my protocols and interviews and just kind of stories and you can kind of follow my story over the course of the years through my interviews. And if you just go into Google and you type in you know, Jiu-jitsu strokes from Jiu-jitsu, or strokes of BJJ, from chokes, you’re going to just get bombarded with probably some of my articles. I don’t know what maybe it’s just my SEO, but I believe that’s how people are finding me.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:14:33

    Okay, what I’ll do is I’ll post all of the links to all of your socials and your website to the show notes. So anybody who wants to get that can basically go to recoveryafterstroke.com/episodes and they’ll be able to pick through all of the episodes at the very top or near the top after you’ve heard this episode will be the Chris Martin interview.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:14:59

    And then from there To be able to click on that and see all the different links to the website, and his socials and his YouTube. And hopefully, what we can do is share the crap out of this episode, and put it in front of as many people as possible so that we can assist in raising awareness because my podcast is called recovery after stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:15:23

    But of course, I would rather my podcast didn’t exist and never existed, because that meant I never had a stroke. And nobody else that I know, on this podcast has had a stroke. So let’s see if we can support you in that journey that you’re on. I really appreciate you doing it.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:15:40

    It’s very rare that you find people who have taken on the preventative side of the stroke journey. And I think that you will 100% save lives, and you will make people get diagnosed sooner which will impact their stroke recovery, and hopefully make it shorter, and then it’ll have families recover sooner, and people have their dads and their mums, for longer and their kids for longer. And that’s all that we want to do, isn’t it, there’s no need for us to just lose people unnecessarily to this situation.

    Chris Martin 1:16:17

    Especially doing what we love and you know, what we think is healthy, you know, to not know and then they come home and to lose somebody or to lose your loss of daily daily living skills. Is you know, doing what you love.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:16:40

    Thanks so much for being on the podcast.

    Chris Martin 1:16:42

    Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you for what you do. And thank you for all the listeners as well who are helping us and helping you spread the awareness as well. So thank you.

    Intro 1:16:54

    Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals their opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast or the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed.

    Intro 1:17:11

    All content on this website at any linked blog, podcast or video material controlled this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis. The content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing.

    Intro 1:17:28

    It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice. The information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances or health objectives did not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or is a substitute for the advice of a health professional.

    Intro 1:17:48

    Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional, your doctor or your rehabilitation program based on our content. If you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition, please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional, if you are experiencing a health emergency or things you might be, call triple zero in Australia or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance.

    Intro 1:18:10

    Or go to the nearest hospital emergency department medical information changes constantly. While we aim to provide current quality information in our content. We did not provide any guarantees and assume no legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, currency or completeness of the content. If you choose to rely on any information within our content, you do so solely at your own risk. We are careful with links we provide however third party links from our website are followed at your own risk and we are not responsible for any information you find there.

    The post Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu And Stroke – Chris Martin appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

    1 hr 20 min
  • TPA Caused A Hemorrhagic Stroke As Well – Bill Hrncir

    Bill Hrncir is the 1 in 6 people that will have adverse reactions to TPA (Tissue Plasminogen Activator) which was used to bust a clot that caused an ischemic stroke but also caused a hemorrhagic stroke.

    Website

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    Get the book here.

    Highlights:

    02:18 Introduction

    06:56 A Traumatic Event
    09:55 TPA Caused A Hemorrhagic Stroke
    17:55 Aphasia And Brain Fog
    26:59 Stroke Deficits
    34:40 Bike Riding Difficulties
    39:41 Think About The Caregivers
    47:08 Building A Stroke Group
    54:26 Finding Purpose After A Stroke
    1:05:05 Monocular Vision
    1:10:29 Life Happens

    Transcription:

    Bill Hrncir 0:00

    My world is foggy, but it shows up there or foggy. But it shows up there.

    Bill Gasiamis 0:13

    Yeah, so you’re in and out of clarity?

    Bill Hrncir 0:17

    Yeah, yeah.

    Bill Gasiamis 0:18

    And then when you have clarity, are you concerned? Are you worried?

    Deedee Hrncir 0:23

    No, he was not and that’s what was kind of, I don’t know if it was scary or if it was sort of a relief it did I mean have its positive side because I mean if he would have looked in the mirror at the time, and seen what you know what all was going on with his body and his head and you know, everything at the time, I think it would have been a little scary for anyone.

    Intro 0:58

    This is the recovery after stroke podcast, with Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:10

    Hello and welcome to recovery after stroke, a podcast full of answers, advice and practical tools for stroke survivors to help you take back your life after a stroke and build a stronger future.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:21

    I’m your host three times stroke survivor Bill Gasiamis. After my own life was turned upside down and I went from being an active father to being stuck in hospital. I knew if I wanted to get back to the life I love before, my recovery was up to me.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:35

    After years of researching and discovering I’ll learned how to heal my brain and rebuild a healthier and happier life than I ever dreamed possible. And now, I’ve made it my mission to empower other stroke survivors like you to recover faster, achieve your goals and take back the freedom you deserve.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:52

    If you enjoy this episode and want more resources, accessible training and hands-on support, check out my recovery after stroke membership community created especially for stroke survivors and caregivers.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:04

    This is your clear pathway to transform your symptoms reduce your anxiety and navigate your journey to recovery with confidence. Head to recoveryafterstroke.com to find out more after today’s show.

    Introduction

    Bill Gasiamis 2:18

    But for now let’s dive right into today’s episode. This is episode 174. And my guest today is Bill and Deedee Hrncir, Bill experienced an ischemic stroke. And when the doctors treated the clot with TPA Bill also experienced a hemorrhagic stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:37

    These days Bill is recovering and is dealing with aphasia, which is worse when he’s tired. Bill is the author of the book, I just can’t read my own mind, which tells his story and gives tips for stroke recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:51

    Now, just before we get started, there was a little bit of background feedback and background noise from time to time during this episode, I’ve done my best to remove it for you.

    Bill Gasiamis 3:01

    And hopefully, it’s still a pleasant listen, and you get a lot out of this episode. Thanks so much for listening, Bill and Deedee Hrncir. Welcome to the podcast.

    Bill Hrncir 3:12

    Hi, how are you?

    Deedee Hrncir 3:13

    Hi.

    Bill Gasiamis 3:14

    I’m well thank you guys for being here. Thank you for organizing this. And thank you for sending me a copy of the book. IJust Can’t Read My Own Mind. It’s really interesting when I made stroke survivors, because until I had a stroke, I’ve never met anyone who was a stroke survivor.

    Bill Gasiamis 3:35

    All stroke survivors have a story to tell they seem to need to tell their story. It’s really important. And then they also seem to want to help other stroke survivors, which is what I want to do.

    Bill Gasiamis 3:47

    But I didn’t realize that it was something within me. And it seemed bizarre every time I met another stroke survivor, they wanted to help somebody else. Not that stroke survivors aren’t lovely people that they don’t like to help.

    Bill Gasiamis 4:03

    It’s just interesting that they are going through their own turmoil, and they want to help other people. And this is the feeling I get from you, Bill. I get the feeling that it’s really important to include other people in your recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 4:19

    But before we talk about that, tell us a little bit about what happened to you. And then we’ll go into the rest of the conversation.

    Bill Hrncir 4:32

    In my book I wrote I was a super dad, a loving husband, a businessman and an athlete.

    Bill Gasiamis 4:45

    Pause, pause let me check with Deedee, Deedee is that all accurate?

    Deedee Hrncir 4:53

    Well, it depends on the day you’re asking.

    Bill Gasiamis 4:57

    Okay, sounds like today’s a good day, so Bill, we’re gonna go with that mate. I think you did a good job in describing yourself Deedee agrees today. Go ahead, man.

    Bill Hrncir 5:11

    Oh, then out of the blue. I had severe knock me down. Take away my voice. Throw me into a wheelchair stroke. Wow.

    Deedee Hrncir 5:32

    Yeah, yeah, he described it as the perfect storm. He was on the wrong end of genetics.

    Bill Hrncir 5:40

    My brother and my parents had a stroke.

    Deedee Hrncir 5:46

    And he would overtrain.

    Bill Hrncir 5:53

    I guess the bottom line is you hit 40. You have to be more of a moderate by exercises, you know, moderate like any drug, potent drug. Exercise too little? It does nothing. Exercise too much. And it will cause injury.

    Deedee Hrncir 6:30

    And your work, stress overload.

    Bill Hrncir 6:35

    I have to work on that.

    Bill Gasiamis 6:41

    Still? You have to work on that still?

    Deedee Hrncir 6:43

    Oh, yes, for sure. And he also survived a trauma, which, you know, they thought also might be the cause.

    A Traumatic Event

    Bill Hrncir 6:56

    Experience a traumatic event or cause physical, emotional and psychological harm. The accident that I saw, may have been the straw that broke the camel’s back.

    Bill Gasiamis 7:24

    Yeah. I read that part in the book. And it was pretty dramatic. It was a collision between two cars, one car lost control ended up on top of another car. There was a little child and granddad in the car.

    Bill Gasiamis 7:41

    And as a result of that collision, the child is out of the car. But the other person driving the car, imagine the granddad stuck in the car. And then you’re dealing with the whole situation.

    Bill Gasiamis 7:54

    And I imagine as a dad. And as a person who has a father, you’re putting yourself in the shoes of their child and you’re going wow, what what’s going on? These people have been impacted by this.

    Bill Gasiamis 8:11

    And then you have to deal with that emotionally. And if you’re going through a difficult financial time or difficult life experiences because your mid 40 all the stresses of the world are coming together to attack you at the same time because that’s just what I did.

    Bill Gasiamis 8:27

    That’s what normally happens in that part of life that midlife then a traumatic injury like that could be the icing on the cake for this terrible experience to happen around the corner.

    Bill Gasiamis 8:41

    I completely understand that. So it was about two weeks after the collision that you witnessed that you had the stroke. That was a normal day. You woke up, you went to work?

    Bill Hrncir 8:57

    Well, no. I took my daughter to this dance class, out of town, I think Deedee will tell it.

    Deedee Hrncir 9:22

    The night before he had a headache. And that wasn’t normal for him. But we had no idea that a severe headache is one of the signs.

    Bill Hrncir 9:36

    She had headaches all the time. I didn’t.

    Deedee Hrncir 9:39

    We still didn’t see that as something that you know we should be oh, you know, why is this going on? So he was out of town.

    TPA Caused A Hemorrhagic Stroke


    Bill Hrncir 9:55
    In Austin, for instance once I hit the hospital, I was given a dose of tissue plasminogen activator TPA, to bust my clot. One in three patients have major improvements. However, six out of 100 patientsm, bleeding can occur, and long term disability or even death. I was one of the one out of six, of course.

    Bill Gasiamis 11:02

    You went into hospital because of a stroke, they gave you TPA to remove the clot, and then the TPA caused a hemorrhage.

    Deedee Hrncir 11:15

    Yes, and, little did we know, you know, now that we have the stroke group, a lot of stroke survivors were given TPA. And so now that’s kind of had to become part of our vocabulary, you know, and they, they say it was something with three letters that they gave my mom, and we go, oh, that’s tissue plasminogen activator.

    Deedee Hrncir 11:35

    But then, you know, even to know what that is, of course, we knew nothing of that before stroke, like you were saying, I didn’t know anybody with a stroke. We didn’t know what a stroke was we and you go day by day learning more.

    Bill Hrncir 11:56

    One year and three months. My brother had a stroke. I didn’t know what it was.

    Bill Gasiamis 12:08

    So even though your mum and dad had a stroke, and your brother had a stroke, they still didn’t understand it, because you hadn’t got one that makes sense. And now you understand it in a way you never wanted to understand it.

    Deedee Hrncir 12:24

    Yeah. That’s right on.

    Bill Gasiamis 12:30

    And what about the TPA? Did you guys know the risks of the TPA? Or was that just administered before anyone?

    Deedee Hrncir 12:39

    He didn’t really get to decide about that. But really, I was in Laredo, and they called me and, you know, they’re telling me, you know, we’re going to give him something to try to dissolve the clot.

    Deedee Hrncir 12:51

    And, you know, luckily, we had just updated our will at that time, and I could speak for him on his behalf. And, you know, we got in the car, but it’s a four hour drive away. And so, you know, the whole time, I’m really not knowing what I’m saying yes to, but I said, you know, if it’s going to help, if it’s something you normally do you do, please do?

    Deedee Hrncir 13:19

    Well, they told me it was the right thing to do at the time. And I mean, apparently, it was it was whether it caused the bleed, afterwards, it still was really the only choice at the time.

    Bill Gasiamis 13:32

    You’ve got a stroke and, you got a blood clot in your blood vessel causing you brain damage. And if they don’t get it out, it’s gonna continue to cause brain damage. If they, get it out, and you’re not one in the one in six, then you’re going to have a good outcome because I’ve never heard of anybody who’s had a bad outcome.

    Bill Gasiamis 13:54

    I’ve heard about the bad outcome. I’ve heard that it does cause this problem for people. But I’ve never met anybody. And I’ve done 170 episodes, and I know a heap of stroke survivors.

    Bill Gasiamis 14:07

    And Bill’s the first person that I’ve heard, who said that he had an adverse effect from TPA. So did you Where were you when you got the call? That Bill’s not well.

    Deedee Hrncir 14:23

    I was at home because I was sick, actually. And so we were debating the night before he had a headache and I was sick with a cough. And, we were saying, okay, who’s going to take Ally our daughter to who’s going to take her to her dance performance?

    Deedee Hrncir 14:40

    And he said, Well, you know what, I’ll go and I’ll go for a run and it’ll be you know, kind of a little release for me from the stress and whatever. And so, you know, I was home and then of course, I had to hurry up and get over there and, you know, mine was minimal thing compared to what he was going through.

    Deedee Hrncir 15:00

    And you know, you just do what you got to do. But yeah, it was just a weird thing. I’m usually the one who goes to the dance stuff, he would go to the sport stuff with my son. And so yeah, that’s where I was things.

    Bill Gasiamis 15:16

    Things were a bit different that day. And, you’re a regular wife, you know, he’s a regular husband. You guys have kids, you do the normal stuff, you know, it sounds like a pretty typical relationship situation then you know, a lot of people experience right. And then you get the phone call that he’s unwell, but also, that he’s had a stroke, and they’re gonna do those things.

    Deedee Hrncir 15:47

    Well actually when they called, What was weird is he runs and bikes competitively at the time, that’s what he did. So he took his bike with him. And all they told me is he’s had an accident.

    Deedee Hrncir 16:05

    And I in my head envisioned a car, getting his bike, he flying off, you know, no clue what it was. And they told me until you get here, we can’t tell you anything else. So that’s what made it harder, because then we had this four hour drive, where we’re just, you know, things are going through our mind of what it might be.

    Bill Hrncir 16:29

    And another Bill, my.

    Deedee Hrncir 16:32

    Brother in law, drove me to the hospital. Yes. I mean, drove me to Austin and to the hospital. So yeah. And on the way, we got the call that, you know, they wanted to use the TPA, and all that.

    Deedee Hrncir 16:51

    And so they’re giving us a little bit more information. But like you say, and like we mentioned earlier, is that still them telling me a stroke, and telling me TPA, and they could have been talking Chinese, I mean, any language, and I’m, you know, other than my own, because I understood none of it, but I just had to go with what they were telling me was the best situation at the time, you know? So yeah, that was what happened that day.

    Bill Gasiamis 17:23

    Must have been tough. I get it, I was out of my mind. You know, I had three bleeds. But the second one, particularly, I was completely gone. I don’t recall it. And I just remember my wife coming to the hospital that I recognized her, but later on, I don’t know how many days later, but much later are recognized her. But at the beginning, I couldn’t recognize her . So I was in my own world. Bill, do you relate to that? Being kind of out of it?

    Aphasia And Brain Fog

    Bill Hrncir 17:55

    My world is foggy, but it comes and shows up there foggy, But it shows up there.

    Bill Gasiamis 18:08

    Yeah. So you’re in and out of clarity? And then when you have clarity. Are you concerned? Are you worried?

    Bill Gasiamis 18:19

    No.

    Deedee Hrncir 18:21

    No, he was not. And that’s what was kind of, I don’t know if it was scary, or if it was sort of a relief that he didn’t know how bad it was.

    Bill Hrncir 18:34

    The doctors drugged me up.

    Deedee Hrncir 18:36

    Well, yeah, I mean, they did the self induced coma so that they can really know the brain swelling. But, it did. I mean, have it’s positive side. Because I mean, if he would have looked in the mirror at the time, and seen what, you know, what else was going on with his body and his head and you know, everything at the time? I think it would have been a little scary for anyone.

    Bill Gasiamis 19:06

    Yeah. How long did you spend in hospital Bill?

    Bill Hrncir 19:10

    I think well, two weeks, but I was shipped over to like to rehab to Texas neurorehab center.

    Deedee Hrncir 19:29

    For three months.

    Deedee Hrncir 19:40

    You wanna talk a little bit about your craniotomy?

    Bill Gasiamis 19:45

    Let me ask you this question. So you’re in hospital for a couple of weeks. You get to rehab and in rehab, it must hit you that all these things that you used to be able to do before, you can’t do now?

    Intro 19:59

    If you’ve had us stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. Like now long will it take to recover? Will I actually recover? What things should I avoid? In case I make matters worse, doctors will explain things that obviously, you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask.

    Intro 20:23

    If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you. It’s called a seven questions to ask your doctor about your stroke.

    Intro 20:43

    These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition, they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery. Head to the website now, recoveryafterstroke.com and download the guide. It’s free.

    Deedee Hrncir 21:02

    Yeah, well, I thought it’ll be two or three months now. And I’ll be okay. But it didn’t.

    Deedee Hrncir 21:19

    Yeah, I think that was based on what he thought, his brother stroke was on the other side of the brain. And so physically, he wasn’t affected in the same way, he lost a little bit of his strength in his hand, but he could walk, he could talk, it was a completely different thing.

    Deedee Hrncir 21:38

    So, you know, like Bill says, I thought, oh, you know, I’m going to be like Eddie, and, you know, a couple of weeks will pass by, and I’ll be able to go to the gym again. And I’ll be back on my bike.

    Deedee Hrncir 21:49

    And, you know, it’s all good. And a couple of times, we’ve been trying to just pull everything out that the hospital had attached to him and just hop out of the bed and realize right away that he couldn’t, and, you know, then they actually just strapped him in, like an animal. What it was necessary at the time, he really did try to get out several times.

    Bill Gasiamis 22:12

    Right, right. So when his brother had the stroke, how quickly did he get back to being himself? Was it a minor incident as far as the recovery?

    Bill Gasiamis 22:27

    Six or eight months?

    Deedee Hrncir 22:30

    Yeah, like, it was like six months maybe? Or, you know, eight months? He had a couple of memory issues sometimes and, you know, smaller things that, I guess at that time, you know, when I think back we really didn’t realize how severe a stroke was.

    Deedee Hrncir 22:56

    He had several, he had another one. And then he had a couple of heart attacks since then.

    Bill Hrncir 23:02

    But he’s all good.

    Deedee Hrncir 23:04

    He can still, you know, thank goodness, he can still, do for himself and drive. And you know, all of that, but he was lucky.

    Bill Gasiamis 23:15

    Did he write a book as well? Does he feel the need to talk about it all the time?

    Deedee Hrncir 23:21

    No, no, he always jokes about you know, the difference in the two strokes and you now, jokes about how Bill has the lot of friends come visit and whatever. And he says, you know, yeah, he’s the one that wrote the book not me.

    Deedee Hrncir 23:40

    Yeah, because one time. He said he was somewhere somebody said, Oh, are you the one that wrote the book? And he said, No, I’m not the one that wrote the book. Yeah, sometimes it’s hard.

    Bill Gasiamis 23:55

    Competing against each other.

    Deedee Hrncir 23:58

    Oh, yeah. Cuz they’ve always been competitive their whole lives in athleticism, and even in they used to fly ultralight airplanes, both of them and, you know, they would say, Oh, I flew, you know, so many yards or whatever.

    Deedee Hrncir 24:15

    Well, I landed on water and well, I you know, whatever. So, they were always trying to one up each other. Yeah. So Bill did one up him in the stroke, though, because his was pretty bad compared to his brother.

    Bill Gasiamis 24:29

    Congratulations Bill. In rehabilitation, what are some of the things that you had to learn to get back? I know you have aphasia, and that was a very big part of your recovery. But physically, what else did you have to recover from?

    Deedee Hrncir 24:48

    Five days a week, I would go down to the gym and I would work out for about one hour. And…

    Bill Gasiamis 25:17

    Just keep trying if you like. I’m just gonna wait. This is really important part of the interview, right? Because we want to make people understand what it’s like to have aphasia and to try and get through a sentence. So like, it’s really okay. If it takes a while I don’t really mind at all.

    Bill Hrncir 25:49

    I can’t think, you know, say, hop on, and we would go to the gym on a wheelchair. And he would let me stay, and the therapist would work me over.

    Bill Gasiamis 26:29

    Which side was affected left or right side?

    Bill Hrncir 26:32

    The left.

    Bill Gasiamis 26:36

    And did you have a problem with your right hand as well?

    Bill Hrncir 26:41

    Yes.

    Bill Gasiamis 26:43

    How far along have they come now?

    Deedee Hrncir 26:50

    Well, I will tell you 85%. But it’s a little bit lower than that.

    BIll Hrncir Stroke Deficits

    Deedee Hrncir 26:59

    Well, you can show him. Lift your arm, he can lift it, but to open and close his hand is still not there yet. So that was a lot of the therapy still is yeah, still works with that, has not given up, never has been the type.

    Deedee Hrncir 27:23

    Giving up is never an option, as he says in his book is never an option. And, the walking, I think being that he was a runner. And being that he was a cyclist competitively. The leg was more important to him because he did not want to be in that wheelchair.

    Deedee Hrncir 27:46

    You know, meanwhile, he’s in rehab. And they’re asking me, you know, what accommodations are you making in your home? And I said, well, I don’t want to do anything, because I don’t think he’s gonna want to be in a wheelchair.

    Deedee Hrncir 28:03

    And they say, Well, I’m sorry. You can’t take him home. If there’s not ramps and ADA accessible bathrooms and what have you. So we’re in Austin, and meanwhile, back home. My brother’s trying to he was an engineer, and he was trying to make accommodations on the house and you don’t realize all the accommodations necessary.

    Deedee Hrncir 28:31

    You know, doorways had to be expanded to fit a wheelchair. And the one for this very office that we’re in right now, which is Bill’s office, and the bathroom door. And we had to take out it a lot of tub and put a roll-in shower, and front door side door, back door ramps because Bill’s an outdoors person.

    Deedee Hrncir 29:00

    And I wasn’t going to cage him in and just going around only to the front, which is the street side. I mean, I knew he would want to be in his backyard. And you know, he’d be able to have access to the garage where his bike and truck were.

    Deedee Hrncir 29:16

    So those were huge accommodations for us. Because when he got home, as much as he was happy to see that we had made accommodations for him. It was hard for him. And as soon as he could he wanted to like can we knock off these ramps? So those were, you know, those are huge for independence.

    Deedee Hrncir 29:42

    And as you’re aware, too, I’m sure you know that most stroke survivors. That’s the first question they ask Bill. You know, when they meet him and they just had a stroke, as you know, well, how long did it take you to walk? And how long did it take you to drive? And how long did it take you? You know, did your vision is your vision fix? Can you read yet?

    Bill Gasiamis 30:10

    It’s a really hard question to answer because people want to know my story, but you’re completely different person. And I don’t know if my story is going to help you. But if I have to give you a timeline, if that’s what you’re really after, and that’s going to give you some hope, then fair enough, you know, my timeline, I had three strokes over three years and brain surgery.

    Bill Gasiamis 30:32

    So it was a really long timeline. And I only got really bad after the surgery, I only couldn’t walk after the surgery. So I’m not sure how it relates to everybody else. But it’s a completely different version of what happened. So sometimes it’s not accurate for us to give our story, but I know how it helps other stroke survivors.

    Bill Gasiamis 30:58

    What’s interesting is I never met any stroke survivors. Soon after, we didn’t speak about that there wasn’t a question that I asked, How long did it take you to get this back or that back? Because I had been three years in when I couldn’t walk, like it started nearly a three year mark.

    Bill Gasiamis 31:17

    So then it’s like, by then I had met people who were five and 10 years beyond stroke. And then it’s like, okay, it’s not a question I need to enter or come into rehab. And I’ll just do what I can. And I’ll get out of there as quickly as I can. And we got out of there in a month, but they thought that it was going to take at least two months to get me home.

    Bill Gasiamis 31:41

    And then there was possibility of how is it going to get up the front steps to his door, the front three steps. And they never talked about ramps or anything like that, which was great. Because the progress was a lot quicker than we expected. And I’m not sure why it just was.

    Bill Gasiamis 32:03

    And the result was that even though I couldn’t feel my left leg, I could walk holding on I could walk to the post on the porch, I could hold on and get up. And I didn’t need a ramp. But it was scary. We have a two storey home. I didn’t go upstairs for quite a while. Because that was scary to go up and come down because my knee used to give way. And then I would fall forward and I would do that. Just standing.

    Deedee Hrncir 32:36

    Yeah, Bill’s laughing because he had several falls because he insisted on doing things that you know.

    Bill Hrncir 32:44

    Two story house also.

    Bill Gasiamis 32:47

    Scary, right? Ankle was rolling the knee wasn’t working properly. And it’s the last thing I want to do is go for a tumble down the stairs. I mean, nobody wants to do that under normal circumstances. But after a stroke, can I my head had the fresh plate put in there.

    Bill Gasiamis 33:02

    And didn’t like people touching my head at all. I don’t like seeing combat sports like boxing or anything like that. It just makes my head hurt. So I was really sensitive about falling. But then of course at home, I fell a couple of times once I fell onto my couch and hit my ribs on the arm of the couch.

    Bill Gasiamis 33:26

    That was terrible. That was hurting for days. And then I fell on the floor once as well. On the concrete floor, and that was painful. You can do way more damage to yourself. By falling than sometimes the stroke has caused.

    Deedee Hrncir 33:48

    The stroke. Right. Yeah, Bill insisted on. Yeah, I think I’m ready to climb onto my two wheeled bike. And I said please don’t do this. When there’s not somebody to stand on the other side of the bike. I said, I’m on this side. But what if you fall the other way? I don’t think I can pull you up.

    Deedee Hrncir 34:04

    And sure enough, that’s exactly what happened. And then he was joking with me because I was asking him how many fingers whatever and he was like just laughing and I said, you know, I started crying of course because I was like, you know, don’t make me go through that.

    Deedee Hrncir 34:17

    You know, it’s hard I know. And that there’s tough stroke survivors and then there’s some that you know will try at all and I’m glad I have one that likes to try. But at the same time it’s scary for me pretty often because he really wants it bad and he’ll fight for it. You know.

    Bike Riding Difficulties


    Bill Gasiamis 34:40
    I went for a bike ride I think it was about two years after I got out of surgery. Because I used to bike ride before I still love going for a bike ride and I got on and my left foot which is the effected one would slip off the plane little one was just a regular bike, you know, it wasn’t a sports bike for any particular events or anything.

    Bill Gasiamis 34:55

    And then the pedal would come up and scrape my shin. Then I’m gonna be like oh my God, I remember that one kid, you know. And now it’s happening again. So I tried and tried. And then I couldn’t do it, and then I went and got one stirrup, you know, so one stirrup to hold my effected foot in the right position.

    Bill Gasiamis 35:31

    So when I’m pedaling, it doesn’t do that it doesn’t fall off, and then the pedal doesn’t scrape my shin. So that was a great solution. Except what I didn’t realize was that when I stop my bike, the foot that I lean down with is my left foot. And because I can’t feel it, and it’s in the stirrup, I don’t know that it’s in the stirrup. So the bike stops, I go to put my foot out, my foot doesn’t go anywhere, and I fall.

    Deedee Hrncir 35:58

    Oh, so you had to retrain huh?

    Bill Gasiamis 36:02

    I had to retrain. But of course, retraining is not easy. I fell about three times before I said, I’m not riding the bike anymore. And the last time I fell in our central business district in Melbourne, I was riding through, and there was a road closure, because they were doing construction work.

    Bill Gasiamis 36:19

    And I come around the corner. And I didn’t realize that there was roadworks, because you couldn’t see around that corner what was happening. And when I got there, there was a man holding a stop sign and said, You can’t come here.

    Bill Gasiamis 36:32

    And just as soon as he said that, I tried to stop really quickly, I put my foot down at the same time. And all I did was fall flat on my face right in front of him. It was terrible. And then I had to ride home. You know, feeling all bruised and battered. And that was the last day that I rode a bike until I discovered an electric bike.

    Bill Gasiamis 36:54

    So the electric bike helps assist in the pedaling, and therefore my left foot doesn’t get tired and doesn’t slip off the pedal. And therefore, when I put it down, I don’t have to have a syrup on my pedal.

    Bill Gasiamis 37:10

    And I can put it down and I can ride under normal circumstances, it really makes a big difference in assisting me, not not fatigue the leg. So I’m very familiar with the experience of trying to ride a bike and falling over. I almost before I bought the electric bike.

    Bill Gasiamis 37:33

    I almost bought a three wheeler and this just made it possible for me not to buy one. Not that Not that I mind which bike I got, I would have got one that suited me eventually because bike riding is really important to me.

    Bill Gasiamis 37:48

    And so is exercise, right and you guys know, how important exercise Bill, wrote about it in the book, that exercise is a really important part of recovery. So you’ve already spoken about exercise being a part of potentially creating the perfect storm.

    Bill Gasiamis 38:06

    Because you overtrained but it also is important for your recovery. So, how much exercise do you do these days?

    Deedee Hrncir 38:20

    Not near three quarters of.

    Deedee Hrncir 38:33

    Of what you would like?

    Bill Hrncir 38:34

    Yeah.

    Deedee Hrncir 38:34

    Yeah, I was gonna say he has to really watch those words, because he still does overtrain when he rides bikes, he goes about 26 miles once a week. And, you know, I feel like that’s a lie. I feel like he doesn’t need to do that much.

    Deedee Hrncir 38:49

    But he likes to so it’s once a week, you know, and luckily he rides with his neurologist, so I can feel okay, if something happens that he’s going to be able to tell what to do. And, and so and I think too, he’ll see if Bill’s getting fatigued. And he’ll say, you know, let’s call it a day or whatever.

    Deedee Hrncir 39:11

    But you are talking about the three wheeled bikes and we do have some for our stroke group, the recumbent bikes. Bill had one initially because I had gotten it for him. But you know, for him, that was a baby bike.

    Deedee Hrncir 39:24

    And you know, he had to move to the two wheeled, but he did ride with it. And it did help and a lot of the stroke survivors do use them because then we don’t have to worry about them falling and they’re still getting exercise. You know, I mean, they’re great bikes.

    Think About The Caregivers

    Bill Gasiamis 39:41

    It’s not all about you, Bill. I mean, you have to give the caregivers a little bit of relief, you know, so that they can feel comfortable and at ease with you and that you’re not going to go and do something silly again. You know, they need you to just relax a little bit and do things at a slower pace. I know it’s hard.

    Deedee Hrncir 40:04

    Oh I like this Bill, this idea of worrying about the caregivers, because I try to tell him, you know, sometimes you have to think about what I’m getting out of it, you know, like, because it is very hard for the caregivers.

    Deedee Hrncir 40:20

    So, I can see both ways, when you have a stroke survivor, that scared to do anything. And then when you have one that wants to do everything, because we have several in our group that, you know, the caregivers say, you know, he wants to go outside and his wheelchair and go through the grass and go through, you know, and, you know that that’s an accident waiting to happen.

    Deedee Hrncir 40:45

    You go through the grass, and it just like breaks, and then they fall forward and, then you have some of that don’t want to get out of the bed, you know, and both need a little talking to sometimes and both have their pluses by being motivated to do more. And that’s good, but not extreme, you know.

    Bill Gasiamis 41:14

    I know Bill thinks about you. But what he’s doing is he’s going, I’ve got to find my limit, I’ve got to push, push, push, find my limit. So I know where it is, so that I can stop, right. And I don’t know why. But I became acutely aware of my wife’s role and what she was going through, because I think I became more aware of it because just before my brain surgery, her mom passed away.

    Bill Gasiamis 41:41

    So within a month, we had her mom’s passing the funeral, and my surgery. So at some point, I became really aware that she, as a caregiver, is going through regular parts of life, which are hard and difficult, then she’s dealing with a husband, who’s a stroke survivor, which is complicated and difficult all at the same time.

    Bill Gasiamis 42:09

    And there’s not a lot of time left for her. She’s a mum, by the way, and looking after the kids. And then she’s looking after her dad now who’s on his own. And she’s doing all these things, and at some point.

    Bill Gasiamis 42:25

    I wonder, was she thinking and she never admitted that maybe she was at some point, she was thinking, you know, I’ve had enough like, what about me, you know, like, I need some time for myself or something like that.

    Bill Gasiamis 42:38

    Now, what about you Deedee? Did you experience that whole I wish this didn’t happen? Of course, you wish your husband didn’t become unwell, but did you have moments when you felt like, you know, what about Deedee, like, we need time out, I need to rest and recuperate?

    Deedee Hrncir 43:00

    Yeah, we were fortunate and that our kids were old enough. My son was senior in high school, and my daughter was in college already. And both of them well, my son that was in high school, of course, he knew he still had to finish.

    Deedee Hrncir 43:15

    But my daughter, you know, said I can pause my college, you know, classes and I can, you know, come and help you I know that this is hard and new and different for all of us.

    Deedee Hrncir 43:28

    But I knew that, you know, it was best for her to stay in school. And I said, you know, I am from a big family. And we live actually like on a compound kind of like a ranch and have a sister next door and my brother and sister in law lived on the other side.

    Deedee Hrncir 43:47

    And so I had relief, which a lot of people don’t. And so that helped. But the part that was the most difficult was just the not knowing what to do. And so that’s when we started looking for a stroke group and didn’t find one and then decided well I’m going to study up and research and see if we can start it.

    Deedee Hrncir 44:11

    And I’m glad we were able to because it helps so much if I can recommend one thing to anybody who has a stroke is to get in a group with others that have been through the same because it helps so much to say okay, what did you do for you know, falling?

    Deedee Hrncir 44:30

    What did you do for the foot drop? What did you do for you know, the headaches? Or whatever it was that was going on? aphasia, you know, how did you because at the beginning, I’m a kindergarten teacher for 33 years and I’ve retired but I tried methods that I did in the classroom and oh let sound the word out.

    Deedee Hrncir 44:55

    Well, stroke doesn’t work that way. We we learned that right away and and then I learned also that I’m not supposed to be helping him say everything for him because he can talk for himself. I just have to be patient.

    Deedee Hrncir 45:09

    And so we learned a lot trial and error. But to say that it was not difficult is crazy. Everybody just needs to know that that’s normal to be a little overwhelmed. And it’s normal to need other people and to say, Okay, if they offered to bring food or if they offered to take your kids somewhere, you know, say yes. Because, you know, you do need a break, you do, you really do.

    Bill Gasiamis 45:42

    Cooking can be really tiring, that’s my biggest role in the household because my wife comes home after me. So when she’s still at work, I’m preparing a meal. But that can take an hour and a half, two hours, that I find that really exhausting, but I try to minimize the amount of food that I cook so that, you know, there’s a little bit of this and a little bit of that, and that’s it.

    Bill Gasiamis 46:08

    You know, not too much of everything going on. So, yeah, when people say to me, can I bring you some food? I’m like, yeah, for how many days can you bring me food? Bring as much as you want I’ll freeze it, you know, whatever, you just bring it.

    Bill Gasiamis 46:26

    The book. I’m surprised actually, before I speak about this next thing that I wanted to mention was I’m surprised how long ago was the stroke, and there was no stroke group in your community? I don’t get that.

    Bill Hrncir 46:40

    I have no idea.

    Deedee Hrncir 46:43

    We have two hospitals. And we have one big rehab. And then, you know, there’s there’s therapy at the hospitals, but they try to get you out as soon as possible, of course, because insurance and all, but our town is small, but it’s not tiny, what we have.

    Bill Hrncir 47:05

    270,000 people?

    Building A Stroke Group – BIll Hrncir


    Deedee Hrncir 47:08
    Yeah, so it’s a decent sized town, not to have a stroke support group. But we also heard that, like our Alzheimer’s group is just they meet at the hospital, they talk a little bit, they go home, and we just didn’t want that kind of situation.

    Deedee Hrncir 47:25

    First of all, we didn’t want it in a hospital, because a lot of people don’t want to go back to the hospital, that leaves a bad taste in the mouth. So you know, we worked around, let’s make it something different.

    Deedee Hrncir 47:38

    And all of our activities are non clinical, just like, you know, they play tennis or, you know, they go bike riding, they, you know, do art class, and we try to take them, other places and whatever.

    Deedee Hrncir 47:51

    But that was the thing, building this stroke group, from just having a meeting once a month, has become like, huge for us. Because I mean, we had to get become a nonprofit. And yeah, really go beyond. And I’m not a business person, I told you, I’m a kindergarten teacher.

    Deedee Hrncir 48:11

    Bill’s a businessman always has been my daughter’s business major, you know, so they both wanted it to be, you know, let’s do more with this. There’s so much potential, you know, there’s just, you get the community involved.

    Deedee Hrncir 48:25

    And, you know, there’s so much potential, but even very minimum, if you have meetings, and you allow them to talk, that’s sometimes all they need. Some people only come to the meetings and don’t come to any activities.

    Deedee Hrncir 48:42

    And still really get a lot out of just saying what they’re needing, saying what they’re feeling, asking questions, you know, there’s just, there’s their relations released from the hospital, and then they just go now what? I know we were we were like, Okay, we’re home. What’s, next for us?

    Bill Gasiamis 49:04

    That’s very common. Now, what do I do now? thing that happens is, is basically the doctors, they, you know, they they’ve set you up, they fix you up, they send you home, and then make it your responsibility to take the next step. And hopefully, you have the physical capability to take the responsibility on.

    Bill Gasiamis 49:25

    And if you don’t, hopefully, you have a caregiver or family or friends to support you to take that next part of the responsibility. That’s the real interesting thing. It’s like, we’ve done our job off you go into the world, and that’s kind of the that’s how I was released into the world, you know, back into the world was like, Okay, we’re done.

    Bill Gasiamis 49:48

    It we’re just starting. We’re not done we are nowhere near done. We’re just starting the book. Felt like that to me. To me, it felt like it was a conversation and somebody was asking Bill, what do I do about this?

    Bill Gasiamis 50:10

    And Bill was going for this. I did this and that’s kind of what it felt like, you know, every part of the book had a solution, I suppose for a challenge that Bill faced, it was really easy to understand really easy to read, the words are quite large, which is really good. Like the writing is quite large.

    Deedee Hrncir 50:35

    Yeah.

    Deedee Hrncir 50:38

    So you don’t needing glasses to read it. Yeah,

    Bill Gasiamis 50:41

    Yes, that makes it really easy, which means it’s quite a short book, even though it seems like it’s a lot of pages. It’s not a lot of pages. It’s a short book. And I think that when you’re recovering from something as complicated as a stroke, I think it needs to be short and sweet.

    Bill Gasiamis 50:57

    Too much information can then overwhelm, and create too many possibilities. And I just love the fact that there’s not a lot of information in there. It’s just important information for this. I did this, this is how I did it.

    Bill Gasiamis 51:11

    There’s even you’re running schedule, your gym, set your gym schedule, and all that type of thing. And it’s like, they’re really great tools that I can look at, and adjust or run with or do similar things or do something different. Like it’s great. What made you feel like it was important to write the book Bill?

    Bill Hrncir 51:33

    Well, I started off by trying basketball book, writing basketball book. I had a stroke, and went from basketball book to book about stroke.

    Deedee Hrncir 52:13

    And to give people a little taste of that, you know, pre-stroke, reading and writing are not hard, but whole stroke. He thought well, you know, the book take maybe five years, went on.

    Deedee Hrncir 52:27

    Yeah, 10 years was the final number that he kept telling people, because he would do a lot of public speaking, he had his videos and he would go to the university and to even elementary schools and kind of talk to them about what a stroke is, and how to recognize the signs.

    Deedee Hrncir 52:52

    And that was really cool for the community and very well received. I mean, if you’ve not done that, I mean, I’m sure you probably have with your podcast, but it’s so important to educate your community on what to do when someone’s having a stroke.

    Deedee Hrncir 53:08

    Because, you know, people don’t know, we didn’t know the headache was and we, you know, all the different signs. But anyway, when he would go speak, you know, he had his videos and everything, and it looked like, oh, you know, he doesn’t have too much trouble with his speech.

    Deedee Hrncir 53:25

    But then at the end, he would open it up for questions. And he would go, okay, you don’t have any questions? And well, that wasn’t planned or scripted for him. So he was like, he would look at me, and I would go, still can’t read your mind.

    Deedee Hrncir 53:41

    But you know, it’s really important for them to know, like that. There’s a whole community out there. And the answers are out there. You just have to go find them. But you have to, you know, ask and know what to ask.

    Deedee Hrncir 53:54

    So hopefully the book, Bill used to coach basketball, he coached our son from Kinder all through high school. And so it was he was passionate about it. And now he had to be passionate about stroke. So he had to just, you know, figure out what, you know, what all could he do to make other people learn about aspects of stroke that maybe they didn’t know.

    BIll Hrncir Finding Purpose After A Stroke


    Bill Gasiamis 54:26
    That’s really important. I, for many years, I think from the first year after my first stroke, I went to the Stroke Foundation in Australia. And I became involved as a stroke safe ambassador and we’d go out and we talked to people about stroke, what it is how to prevent it and what to do if somebody is having a stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 54:50

    And that was back in 2013. That program is still happening today. And stroke survivors usually end up going into a workplace or community gathering or something and speak to people there.

    Bill Gasiamis 55:06

    So that was quite good. And it was my first attempt at public speaking. And it was real fun to do, I got to meet a lot of lovely people. And they gave me encouraging words and all that kind of thing. And the Stroke Foundation made me have something to do some kind of purpose behind why the stroke happened to me.

    Bill Gasiamis 55:31

    And then that’s ultimately what led to the podcast, it was this talking about it, which I didn’t realize that I needed to talk about it all the time. And I still do, and I don’t know why I think it’s definitely part of my recovery and part of my healing, I get a lot more out of it.

    Bill Gasiamis 55:53

    Now, it’s not more, it’s not just that I talk about it. The connection with people, I’m also I also need people, I’m the kind of guy who needs people everywhere, all the time, if I can get them, you know, ringing me up, let’s go out for a drink a talk or walk or whatever, let’s just go somewhere.

    Bill Gasiamis 56:12

    That’s the kind of guy I am. So the stroke has actually made me able to find more people that are like me, that understand me that I’ve never had before. Because before I didn’t know how to connect, I didn’t have some one thing in common with people. Like I didn’t have that.

    Bill Gasiamis 56:38

    And even though I’ve met more than 200 stroke survivors easily in the podcast as 170. So I’ve met way more than 200 stroke survivors. But we are so different. We have different political views, we have different backgrounds, we have different ideas, different thoughts, but we really understand each other when it comes to stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 56:59

    So we don’t really care about the other stuff. We just care about the fact that I understand you like I get it, and I needed that I needed people to understand me, I felt like the black sheep in the family.

    Bill Gasiamis 57:09

    So I can appreciate why Bill does all the things that he does and why he over commits to helping people and writing a book and all that type of thing, because he’s describing me like that’s exactly what I do.

    Bill Gasiamis 57:25

    And I’m just pretending to ask questions that I don’t know the answers to I know the answers to them. I just want to hear if he’s like me, I totally get it. What has been the feedback, like about the book, so it’s been out for a while now?

    Bill Hrncir 57:48

    We’ve sold 2000 copies.

    Deedee Hrncir 57:53

    And we live right on the border of Mexico, just the river separates us. So we now have the Spanish version. So we had to translate it because a lot of people around and even you know, I have family members and stuff that you know, speak a lot more Spanish than English.

    Deedee Hrncir 58:15

    And so it was requested. And we got a couple of copies that we’ve already distributed and we’ve ordered more. So yeah, we’re hoping to, you know, do that and we’ve done we’ve done several book tours around in cities around us. Between the valley, Houston Yep.

    Deedee Hrncir 58:39

    He’s done seven book tours and got to work lamp. I told him to wait till after the holiday. Yeah, that’s the part that you think he forgets about too is to like sit down and close his eyes for a bit. Take a little break in the day. It’s gotten better about it, though he’d come home for lunch.

    Deedee Hrncir 59:02

    And I eat and just a little bit of shut eye and I’ll go back.

    Bill Gasiamis 59:14

    it really does help to reset and recharge the batteries and focus the brain again. It’s really good to sneak in a couple of, you know, daily rests or relaxations, even if it’s not sleep meditation, even for five minutes, has similar effects on sleeping so you can do it.

    Bill Gasiamis 59:35

    So I’m really impressed by you guys. You’ve come a long way. You’ve been through a heck of a journey. And you’ve written a book about it, to tell the story to share with other people to create a community to make it easier for other people to navigate stroke when I had the stroke in the first one in 2012.

    Bill Gasiamis 59:59

    There was no But it was just The Stroke Foundation, which was still amazing that it existed. But I didn’t know of anybody anywhere that had had a stroke that I could connect to. And that was the hardest part. And I feel like it’s really important, because we’re the only people that can really support stroke survivors.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:21

    Yeah, your neurologist can get you out of the hospital and your surgeon to get you out of the hospital. And the odd occasion, a neurologist will come for a bike ride with you. That’s, yeah. Yeah. Usually that don’t get involved afterwards.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:39

    And the really important thing about that is that they’ve never had a stroke, thank God. And that, therefore, they don’t really deeply understand that, like you guys didn’t understand when bills brother had the stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:55

    You understand that now, what he went through, and unfortunately had to go through this. So I suppose what I’m saying is, you’re doing a great thing. And it’s really, really important.

    Bill Hrncir 1:01:08

    Thank you.

    Deedee Hrncir 1:01:09

    Thanks.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:09

    I’m glad that I came across you guys and had the opportunity to chat to you and get to meet you. And you know what, I don’t know what the word is. But it’s great that people with aphasia, get out and speak on my podcast, or at least try and speak or speak the way that can speak because speaking doesn’t have to always be like this, right?

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:39

    It’s different. This is the thing you know, we talk about, lately, we’ve been talking about diversity, and all these different things to include in communities like, there’s people talking about having different body types and abilities at the gym, of course, stroke survivors can’t lift weights the same way that they used to.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:02:01

    So there needs to be an opportunity for that as well. And there also needs to be an understanding that not only do we speak different languages, but because of things like aphasia, we speak in different ways. It’s still communication.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:02:16

    And a lot of people who experience aphasia won’t come on the podcast because they’re embarrassed by it or it makes them feel uneasy, or they’re upset, or it frustrates them. I don’t know what it is.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:02:29

    But I’ve had about three or four people with Aphasia come on. And it’s like, it’s really, really important to hear from them, in their own words, the way that they can communicate now, because it’s still communication, and they need to communicate, and we need to hear from them.

    Deedee Hrncir 1:02:48

    Yeah, yes. And they need to know, you know, I tell people for a whole year, Bill didn’t talk. He didn’t say anything. It was a good thing. He was a real good drawer. And then he would draw a little picture.

    Deedee Hrncir 1:03:03

    So when he was in the hospital, he drew a little picture, and it was the lawn mower. And I said, Oh, are you worried that the grass is not getting cut while we’re over here? You know, because he was thinking about it. Hey, I’ve kind of been here a while who’s cutting the grass at home, you know, and I said, don’t worry about the grass.

    Deedee Hrncir 1:03:20

    And then he tried to write his dad’s name. And it was just jibberish. And there was a D in there, but none of the other letters were correct. And, then, you know, his dad was older. And then it was that he was worried about his dad too like, does my dad, know? I had a stroke.

    Deedee Hrncir 1:03:38

    And just, you know, and so people don’t realize that, you know, you meet other stroke survivors, and you’re going, Oh, that happened to you, too. And oh, for a year, we found this guy that didn’t talk for 20 years down the street. Yeah. And Bill just saw one day and followed him and said, Oh, he walks kind of like me, hey, his arm is kind of like mine and followed him.

    Bill Hrncir 1:04:06

    He was in the store buying cookies.

    Deedee Hrncir 1:04:10

    Yeah and Bill goes why is he eating cookies. You’re not supposed to eat cookies, you know, Bills all worried about his diet, you know, and he said, hey, you know, I ate cookies.

    Deedee Hrncir 1:04:21

    But anyway, yeah, I mean, and he says that he he didn’t talk for about 20 years because he didn’t know there was anybody else that was going through what he was going through. And I mean 20 years.

    Bill Hrncir 1:04:41

    Laughter in the book.

    Deedee Hrncir 1:04:48

    It mentions him so yeah, you know that and there’s just so many aspects of stroke that are relatable to other stroke survivors only, it’s a little community of, you know, understanding.

    Monocular Vision Caused By TPA

    Bill Hrncir 1:05:05

    I would like to say this I can’t see on this side, two birds with one stone the stroke of my brain stroke and my eye stroke. And it’s in the book too.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:41

    There was a stroke. And then.

    Deedee Hrncir 1:05:47

    Yes, immediately, after he had an eye stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:51

    I’ve never heard of that before.

    Deedee Hrncir 1:05:53

    Yeah, look up monocular vision, and you’ll find all kinds of people that have experience. And then we found out that there’s, I mean, of course, all the same ones that are asking when they can drive and all that are the ones that have the vision, you know, that all kinds of issues.

    Deedee Hrncir 1:06:13

    And it’s so much more popular than you think that a vision deficit will happen with a stroke. And we didn’t know and he had perfect vision before the stroke. We had a bulletin board up up in his rehab room, put pictures of the kids and all his award for running.

    Deedee Hrncir 1:06:36

    And little did I know he could not see it at all. He told me way later, you know about these. And by the way I didn’t even know what was up there.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:06:49

    Just trying to make you feel better. Yeah. Yeah, I did read that in the book. Actually the monocular. What was it called?

    Bill Hrncir 1:06:59

    Monocular. Vision.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:07:01

    Yeah. monocular vision. Yeah. Okay, so that’s an eye stroke. Okay, that is interesting. I just learned something again today. So it is jam packed full of great ideas, great information, great solutions to problems. And it’s definitely an amazing book. It’s written from a stroke survivor. It’s definitely for a stroke survivor.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:07:23

    And it’s for caregivers as well. Because it’s gonna enhance the knowledge of the caregiver really quickly, so that hopefully it doesn’t take a long time for them to find out answers, that they need questions and answers whatever.

    Bill Hrncir 1:07:41

    Yeah. And the doctors and the.

    Deedee Hrncir 1:07:46

    Therapists, you know, kind of kind of seeing it from the stroke survivors point of view. Yeah, you know, and just people that caregivers in general not only a stroke, you know, just overcoming adversity.

    Deedee Hrncir 1:07:58

    I wanted to say you and I will take basketball for instance. I’m with you in it, talking to you about it. But you say out the beaten path.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:08:48

    You’re a type A personality by my small time I’ve got to know you. Right. So as somebody who is highly motivated, highly competitive, you know, intrapreneurial physical next level amounts of, you know, physicality. This has completely challenged you in every way. Did it get dark? Did you have some days where it was really dark?

    Bill Hrncir 1:09:23

    No. I don’t think so.

    Deedee Hrncir 1:09:26

    No, no, I mean, I mean in the hospital. And then the rehab. He got frustrated, really bad sometimes. But I’ve never seen him say or hurt and say, you know, why me? I just, you know, I’ve done everything right. You know, why is this happening?

    Deedee Hrncir 1:09:50

    Never, and I mean, I said, why me? As a caregiver, but he’s never, I mean, he’s never voiced it and he’s never acted like he felt that way. And that’s been what’s like, you know, my whole family, they go, you know, how can we be mad about this?

    Deedee Hrncir 1:10:07

    Look at Bill, he wrote a book and he had a stroke, and you know, whatever, whatever. So he’s the family motivator. But yeah, it’s weird that, you brought that question up because really, we’ve not seen it. I hope it stays in.

    Life Happens


    Bill Gasiamis 1:10:29
    I got a sense he hadn’t. That’s why I asked it because I got a feeling that is the eternal optimist, and he’s an internal problem solver and solutions focused. And anyway, what good does it do to say, why me and to get shitty, I mean, we have done it a little bit, it doesn’t really help.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:10:47

    And it’s good to do it if you need to do it and get it out of your system. But the reality is, is that, actually, it’s not useful at all, to do that, it just puts you into a spiral for some people, potentially of a space where recovery is not happening, it’s not supporting recovery, it’s actually supporting the opposite of recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:11:05

    So if you catch yourself being there, and snap out of it, then it’s okay to do it every once in a while for a little bit. But if you’re staying in there too long, it’s actually impacting your recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:11:17

    And it’s sounds like what you need is more psychological support, or more emotional support, or more counseling or something, to get to the bottom of it, you know, you’re alive, you’re a miracle. And you’re not immune from life, life is happening to you.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:11:37

    And for some people, life happens, like it happened to us, or it happens completely differently, somebody can have a heart attack, they didn’t get the opportunity to say why me because they might be dead immediately.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:11:48

    This they’re not going to know. So we have to take the approach that this is just part of life, and we’re not immune to it. And who are we to think that life shouldn’t happen to us, and that everything should be perfect all the time.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:12:08

    I mean, that’s not how it is, every single person that came before us who’s passed away, was alive, and now they’re not life happens. And every single person that is born after us is also going to pass away at some point in time, and it’s not always pleasant, but it is the reality.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:12:29

    And I like that concept of not saying why me if if you have the the the training, to learn why it’s not not a good thing to say. But also, if you have the instinct to not say it. That’s a great thing. And for those people that have said it, don’t feel bad that you’ve said it’s okay.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:12:55

    But just know that you don’t need to stay there. Because it’s not helping you in any way. And lots of people with disabilities, with the inability to speak because of aphasia with the inability to do all the things still achieve massive accomplishments in life.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:13:11

    Just look at Stephen Hawking. If there was ever an example of what’s possible. Just look up Stephen Hawking, if you’ve never heard of him, you know, for the majority of his life. He couldn’t move or speak.

    Deedee Hrncir 1:13:29

    Yeah.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:13:31

    And everyone thought that he was some kind of a, the most amazing scientist of our time. It’s like, come on, guys. Like we’re very capable. And we have technology on our side, which generations before us did not have.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:13:51

    So, anyway, that’s my little motivational speech for everybody. If you’re sick of hearing me motivate you, well, I appreciate that too. You can throw something at, you can switch off or you can throw the book at the monitor or whatever.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:14:10

    I don’t mean to piss people off. I mean, to just make people think about things that they haven’t thought about before. And this thing that Bill has done to not do the why me that’s instinctive for some reason is not doing it. And it’s actually working in his favor.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:14:27

    And isn’t it amazing that some people are born with that instinct. Everyone else can learn it is basically what I’m trying to say. I know that took a lot of words, but that’s all I was trying to say.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:14:40

    So, yeah, I love you reaching out. I love the fact that you guys have come together to be on the podcast. I mean, thank you so much for doing it. I wish you all the best. And I look forward to just following your journey on Instagram, etc.

    Bill Hrncir 1:14:58

    One thing we’re going to do a book signing in your neck of the woods.

    Deedee Hrncir 1:15:04

    Yeah. Well, you gave us an excuse to go. Well, we’ve always wanted to go to Australia. So now that we know somebody we’re gonna go knock on your door and say, Hey, Bill, we’re here. It’s the other Bill.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:15:19

    Are you really?

    Deedee Hrncir 1:15:20

    We will. It might not be soon. But it’ll happen.

    Bill Hrncir 1:15:25

    I think in two years.

    Deedee Hrncir 1:15:26

    No no don’t give a date. Bill loves to give dates. He loves to give them some deadlines.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:15:32

    Two years I’m holding you to that. So tell me, where can people find the book? Where’s the best place to go? Is there a website that they can visit?

    Deedee Hrncir 1:15:41

    Yes Book Baby is his publisher. And you can go to book baby and look it up. It’s also on Amazon. And it’s really wherever books are sold. I know it’s at bookstores also. But the best place is Book Baby.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:15:58

    Thank you so much for being on the podcast.

    Deedee Hrncir 1:16:00

    You’re welcome. Thanks for having us.

    Bill Hrncir 1:16:03

    Thank you.

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    Intro 1:17:22

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    The post TPA Caused A Hemorrhagic Stroke As Well – Bill Hrncir appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

    1 hr 18 min
  • Pontine Stroke Recovery – Corey Getz

    After experiencing a pontine stroke, Cory Getz did a ton of physical rehabilitation and also recognized the importance of taking care of his emotional recovery.

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    Highlights:

    02:04 Introduction

    04:22 Early Stage of Recovery
    06:13 Pontine Stroke
    10:29 Dealing With Emotions
    20:13 CBD in Stroke Recovery
    28:56 Don’t Give Up
    37:11 Nutrition for Stroke Recovery
    45:43 Cannabis Care Network
    48:55 Caring For Stroke Survivors
    55:27 Heart Intelligence
    1:03:21 What’s Next for Corey Getz

    Transcription:

    After experiencing a pontine stroke, Cory Getz did a ton of physical rehabilitation and also recognized the importance of taking care of his emotional recovery.

    Cory Getz 0:00

    And then, but that being said, I want to use my experience to help other people. And what I’ve been gifted is the opportunity to the people that I know to create this cannabis care network and where I can take brain-injured adults that have medical cards and bring them in.

    Cory Getz 0:24

    It’s going to start early next year, but up to 50 In Orange County, it’s going to be the pilot program for the US. So it should be fairly important. So I’m in the early stages of writing out you know what I want it to look like.

    Intro 0:45

    This is the recovery after stroke podcast, with Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 0:58

    Hello, and welcome to recovery after stroke a podcast full of answers, advice, and practical tools for stroke survivors to help you take back your life after a stroke and build a stronger future.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:09

    I’m your host three times stroke survivor Bill Gasiamis. After my own, life was turned upside down and I went from being an active father to being stuck in the hospital. I knew if I wanted to get back to the life I loved before my recovery was up to me.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:23

    After years of researching and discovering I learned how to heal my brain and rebuild a healthier and happier life than I ever dreamed possible. And now I’ve made it my mission to empower other stroke survivors like you to recover faster achieve your goals and take back the freedom you deserve.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:39

    If you enjoy this episode and want more accessible training and hands-on support, check out my recovery after stroke membership community created especially for stroke survivors and caregivers.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:51

    This is your clear pathway to transform your symptoms, reduce your anxiety, and navigate your journey to recovery with confidence head to recoveryafterstroke.com To find out more after this episode.

    Introduction

    Bill Gasiamis 2:04

    But for now, let’s dive right into today’s show. This is episode 173. And my guest today is Cory Getz who experienced a pontine stroke that left him with deficits on his right side. These days, Cory is back to surfing and is involved in a CBD trial in an attempt to uncover how CBD may be useful in stroke recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:28

    Now, just before we get started, if you are enjoying these episodes, and you believe they are useful, please leave the show a review on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts from.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:39

    And if you’re watching on YouTube, please give the show a thumbs up and subscribe and share and tell me your thoughts by leaving a comment. I love reading them interacting with the show actively rather than just listening passively.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:53

    Will make a tremendous difference to how many other stroke survivors can find the show and that might help support someone that is doing a tough at the moment to feel like they are not alone on their own recovery journey. And now it’s on with the show. Cory Getz welcome to the podcast.

    Cory Getz 3:10

    Hey Bill, how you doing?

    Bill Gasiamis 3:12

    Doing good. How are you? Man?

    Cory Getz 3:14

    I’m doing excellent. What part of the world are you in?

    Bill Gasiamis 3:19

    Melbourne, Australia.

    Cory Getz 3:21

    Alright. I have a lot of friends in Australia. I’m in a surfing group. And yeah, a lot of the guys are down under so yeah, how’s it going? I haven’t had a chance to really dive into your podcast.

    Cory Getz 3:38

    But the stroke community is very close. And I find that a lot of us all glom on to the same, you know, we all get around and support each other. It’s really a welcoming thing.

    Cory Getz 3:55

    I was really surprised on how much support I got and when I was going through the process. And that has helped me be my best person to help the next set of people that are coming along because it’s unfortunate but as strokes happen way too often in this world and and they’re not coming to an end anytime soon.

    Cory Getz Early Stage of Recovery

    Cory Getz 4:22

    So our focus is going to be on recovery. And that being said, for those of you who had or are in the early stages of your stroke recovery, the mental aspect of this is really tough.

    Cory Getz 4:40

    You have to keep a positive attitude going into it and you have to remain in that positive mindset throughout the whole process that it’ll better your chances of a better recovery if you’re always telling yourself what you don’t have what you wish you had, the negativity piling up, you know, your body responds to what you say.

    Cory Getz 5:09

    And if you’re talking to it in a negative way, and then it’s gonna respond in negative way, I truly believe that part of my recovery is the positive attitude that I brought to the table.

    Cory Getz 5:25

    That and just a ton of rehab. I mean, I was a water polo swim team in high school, from a really elite swim team. And so maybe my level of work ethic and, and level of exercise is maybe a little bit more than what you would normally come across.

    Cory Getz 5:51

    So that being said, I still had every single problem that all of us face when your limbs don’t work. And when you’re in your mind and you’re telling it you know, walk, and you get, like, maybe a jolt. And you kind of fall forward and hope that you’re leaning in the right way.

    Pontine Stroke

    Cory Getz 6:13

    I mean, I remember it all too well. Everything from the hand. I had speech, I didn’t have too much speech problem. I’m sorry, let me just tell your audience that I had a pontine stroke. So I had a stroke in the pons section of the brain.

    Cory Getz 6:35

    And out of those of us that have strokes, only 6% of us have pontine strokes and of that 6%, 60 or 70% of us die unfortunately, because parts of the pons help run your your breathing your heart rate your blood pressure.

    Cory Getz 7:03

    There’s certain parts of the pons that want once they’re damaged, it’s really unfortunately, but they they’re not able to save them as they are. Other types of strokes.

    Bill Gasiamis 7:20

    Yeah. How old were you at the time, Cory?

    Cory Getz 7:23

    Oh, I was 50. Yes. 50 years old. Yeah, two years ago, two and a half years ago.

    Bill Gasiamis 7:30

    Would you call yourself somebody who was healthy fit and well, or were there some issues that you weren’t taking care of?

    Cory Getz 7:41

    Well, I was a bit of a party animal when I was young. And you know, I was drinking heavily at the time. And I never quit smoking cigarettes. So I mean, yes, I was active and I was fit and I was in fairly good shape at the time, because I always surf.

    Cory Getz 8:07

    But they really do blame it on the cigarettes now. I wasn’t a heavy smoker. It was just that I never quit. And, that’s about the only thing that could really chop it up to.

    Bill Gasiamis 8:20

    So was it a clot in your blood or what was it?

    Cory Getz 8:24

    Yeah, it was a clot of blood. And I had a real slow stroke. So the onset of the symptoms were very slow. At first, the very first I lost my balance and immediately I wanted to go to bed which was very strange because it was really early in the evening.

    Cory Getz 8:54

    That was really right there we missed it, we missed our sign, you know, I fell into the wall walking down the hallway. I kind of like just brushed it off. Like it was nothing. And my wife even I remember her even asking me, you know, to raise my hand and smile.

    Cory Getz 9:16

    I know that she noticed that it was something wrong. But we both just I don’t know we just both walked away from the situation. I really really wish I had that time back to get medical help.

    Cory Getz 9:34

    As you know, six o’clock with guests at our house that just arrived and and all of a sudden I’m going I have to go to sleep. Yeah, it was really weird. And then the following morning I woke up with I had an unusual temper tantrum like immediately upon waking up.

    Cory Getz 10:00

    And then the symptoms came along further till the afternoon I remember talking to my wife on the phone and she said that she couldn’t understand me anymore that I was slurring too bad and that I needed to go get help.

    Cory Getz 10:15

    And then I made another mistake and driving myself to the doctor at that point. And that was when I started noticing I was having trouble with the braking, and the acceleration.

    Cory Getz Dealing With Emotions

    Cory Getz 10:29

    And then by the time I got, I went to my own physician, I did not go to the hospital, I still was going to the doctor, which I was just wasting time precious time. I’m sorry I’m holding it back, but I’m doing pretty good.

    Bill Gasiamis 10:50

    So it seems like a really emotional time for you is it? Still pretty fresh it happened in 2019, so is it still raw and emotional?

    Cory Getz 10:58

    Oh, yeah. Yeah in fact, yeah, the emotions are probably my biggest nemesis at this point. Yeah, it kind of took away my middle zone, you know, I used to be able to have like, it wasn’t so zero to 100. Now, I either get all the emotion, or I get none of it. So I find that really difficult.

    Bill Gasiamis 11:29

    So you know, that that’s called a pseudobulbar affect? So it’s a condition, it’s a common condition after stroke, that people get highly emotional, where they can’t control it, and it just breaks out. And it happens, you know, at times where you would prefer it didn’t happen. Often when people are recalling their story and talking about what’s going on.

    Cory Getz 11:54

    Right I use a lot of emotional intelligence coaching to help overcome some of those situations, because I put myself in a position to speak on behalf of plant medicine and stroke recovery.

    Cory Getz 12:13

    So I’m forced myself to repeat my story numerous times. And yes, it is getting easier. But But the day of it’s excruciating I mean, I know it’s coming. And yeah, I have all the same thoughts.

    Bill Gasiamis 12:40

    But what is it with anniversaries? Like, why is it so excruciating? I mean, the anniversary actually doesn’t really mean anything, because any day you wake up could actually be an anniversary. So it doesn’t really actually mean anything, but we make it mean a lot do you sort of have a sense as to why that is why it means a lot to you?

    Cory Getz 13:02

    Yeah, I don’t know that it means a lot to me. That day, mine was May 1, so it was Mayday. I mean, that’s kind of the only joke that we I don’t know if you’d call it a joke. But, this incident has blessed my life more than it’s taken away.

    Cory Getz 13:28

    Through all of this, I have a whole new second chance in life that was brought upon me at after the stroke that would never have appeared, I can’t explain that I do believe that it was presented to me in divinity that these doors were opened for me and that this was the course that I was supposed to take.

    Cory Getz 13:54

    And now, I don’t know that anybody else would believe that but me but I mean, we’re talking about you know, your own interpretation of the attack on your soul, and how do you deal with the you know, for me, I want to give back and for me, I don’t get this blessing without giving back.

    Cory Getz 14:23

    So for me, I’m in the early stages of starting a brain injury group in Orange County, California. And it just so happens to be a compassion care group. So at the end of our would you call it meeting, you know, and then they’ll get a compassion donation of cannabis at the end.

    Cory Getz 14:47

    So I’m in the early stages of developing that right now with the Orange County normal and L.A normal, which is an organization in normalized plant medicine. And I did use CBD in my recovery. And there’s plenty of evidence for CBD in recovery for stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 15:10

    And so how did you use it? What did you find it helped with?

    Cory Getz 15:16

    Well, I started out with the type of the cannabis, I used cannabis CBD, there’s both cannabis CBD and hemp CBD. The actual molecule CBD is the same in both plants. So the only difference as I took full spectrum cannabis CBD, which means it includes all the chemicals in the plant, along with the CBD.

    Cory Getz 15:42

    So that’s what the term full spectrum means. And what did it mean on my impact of I did not take CBD before the stroke. So I only took it after we’d gone to some classes to learn about CBD and autism because my son has autism.

    Cory Getz 16:06

    So that’s actually where we got the information about how CBD was useful in all sorts of banks, because we had taken a couple of classes. And next thing you know, yeah, the stroke happened about a month after those classes. And then she went straight back to the dispensary and got the CBD we get CBD from a dispensary.

    Cory Getz 16:32

    So it’s highly tested. It’s tested for heavy metals and mold and all the bad things that would be accumulated by these plants, because these plants will clean soil, meaning they’ll take up all the heavy metals and bad things unless it’s grown organically.

    Bill Gasiamis 16:57

    So what were the conditions that you were left with after the stroke? What happened that you felt like the CBD would help?

    Cory Getz 17:08

    Well, I use it during the recovery. So like, every time that I would do the rehab. So let’s say a typical day would be I wake up and then in the morning, I would do my leg workout.

    Cory Getz 17:24

    And I would take some CBD, and that would give all I got like in early days it was maybe 10 minutes, you know, or five minutes eventually got to an hour but that took some doing.

    Cory Getz 17:41

    My leg would only work as a lego. You could only impulse your leg like to make a jolt you couldn’t really like direct it. You couldn’t set it down. I could only send one thing of electricity to it and just kind of just fling it out.

    Cory Getz 18:01

    So I did just just, I had no expensive rehab center. I had an outpatient therapy, and I just took the therapies that they gave me and I just repeated them 1000 times at home. Like until I was out of energy.

    Cory Getz 18:26

    I used every bit of my energy every single day in my rehab. And for that three months I made it back to surfing in 180 days. Which is pretty remarkable. I had a lifeguard out there in the water watching after me because I know my wife was paranoid about me getting back.

    Cory Getz 18:54

    But at that point I was already swimming like 60 laps in a pool three or four times a week, as soon as I could get back in the pool and swim. Then I was swimming my whole rehab was swimming.

    Cory Getz 19:09

    Other than that the fine art skills which I took up later, I didn’t want to lose my ability to paint and color. So I continued with my rehab after you would think that your normal function had come back to regain the fine motor skills and that was actually harder, the fine motor skills that rehab was quite a bit longer, more drawn out than than the other.

    Cory Getz 19:42

    And to this day, I’m still getting function back. The most the most of the problems that I have is with heat, not being able to regulate my temperature. I had trouble with my urinary tract. It’s mostly the problem of the heat, being able to keep heat in my body most of the time.

    CBD in Stroke Recovery


    Bill Gasiamis 20:13
    You know, when you started taking CBD, did you notice a difference in your symptoms in the way that the stroke was impacting you? Did you have like, wow, this is actually worked. And it’s done this for me or it’s done that for me.

    Cory Getz 20:31

    It’s really hard to explain the CBD. It’s, more of a lack of feeling. I know it sounds weird to say it that way. But it would be like, I can’t really attribute it directly. It’s a good question. I’m just trying to answer this correctly. Yes, I wholeheartedly felt that it was a great addition to my rehab. But that being said, it’s an addition.

    Intro 21:04

    If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. Like, how long will it take to recover? Will I actually recover? What things should I avoid? In case I make matters worse?

    Intro 21:22

    Doctors will explain things that obviously, you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask. If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery.

    Intro 21:34

    If you’re finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying, and head to recoveryafterstroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you it’s called a seven questions to ask your doctor about your stroke.

    Intro 21:48

    These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition, they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery, head to the website now, recoveryafterstroke.com and download the guide. It’s free.

    Cory Getz 22:07

    I do believe that the positive mindset and the number of reps is equally important, if not more important, but I do believe that the CBD had a part in in playing a rewiring part of you know when it came to because we had to rewire right?

    Cory Getz 22:32

    We have to run that side of your body. Now you have to run the reps. So you gain the the neurons so that it can run everything. And then you need to do the reps until it solidifies, instead of jumping from one to the other in it’s in the continuous chain.

    Cory Getz 22:59

    I don’t know how I’m really not a neuroscientists, but early on my leg was delayed by a split second or two. But now, just in the last month I’ve regained my right hand is become dominant again.

    Cory Getz 23:20

    Which I really was not expecting. I didn’t think that I would regain right hand dominance. But yeah, it just happened. And by the way, I continue to work out every day, I only do a half an hour. But I do a half an hour every day.

    Bill Gasiamis 23:40

    Did you take the CBD in conjunction with your other meds with the doctor’s knowledge? Or was there a discussion with your medical team about CBD?

    Cory Getz 23:51

    No. They gave me blood thinners, the neurologist did. And then my wife and I were really plant forward and so we’re not so Western medicine. And so other than the blood thinners you know, I’m on Lipitor for like cholesterol, which I’m okay with, you know, I understand that there’s some aspects of meds that you have to deal with and there’s some that you don’t.

    Cory Getz 24:27

    But, they did not recommend it. Yes, I told them that we’re taking it but no, there was no that I shouldn’t or there was definitely no recommendation to try it. But the imaging people they were all for it. Because I went back to go get the images later the CT scans.

    Cory Getz 24:56

    And I made sure that they knew that I had fully recovered, and I’m now surfing. And so I had the whole staff signed my surfboard. And they were also backing plenty of stories of CBD being helpful in different circumstances. Guys, it’s not the end all to everything. But it does have its place in the medicine gap.

    Bill Gasiamis 25:24

    Yeah. How long were you in hospital in total?

    Cory Getz 25:30

    I was in for three days initially. And then I came back out for two. And then I went back in. We thought it was a second stroke, but it was just a continuation of the first one. It was a really slow stroke. So I continued to lose things over the course of days. So finally it ended like five days later. So yeah, it was in for three came out for one, and then back in for a day and a half and back out.

    Bill Gasiamis 26:07

    So in that time, were you able to continue caring for your son who I imagined requires a fair amount of support?

    Cory Getz 26:15

    No. We had her brother out of town. So I presume that they were of help. You know, honestly, I have no idea what went on. I really don’t. Chaos I mean, it just must have been just horrible. I really can’t imagine. Because I know how it would affect me. And yeah. It really breaks me up right there.

    Bill Gasiamis 26:54

    Sounds like it was rough. And how’s your wife now? Is she able to sort of relax a little bit now that there’s some time that has elapsed? Or is she still concerned that something might be going down?

    Cory Getz 27:10

    Well, no, I’m more concerned about something that may go down. Like, every once in a while. I’ll go on like stroke watch, you know, the whole thing I started like with a pain in my leg.

    Cory Getz 27:22

    So whenever I get like, shooting pain or anything like that in my legs, and all of the sudden I’m like, I’m on guard. Like, it’s like I wake up it’s a couple hours I start taking my blood pressure thing and take the temperature or sorry.

    Bill Gasiamis 27:47

    Blood pressure

    Cory Getz 27:49

    Yeah, thank you very much. So occasionally It’s always in the back of my head. It’s always in the back of my head that a it could have been again. It’s just one of those things you live with. But you know, I’m not letting that stop me from living my life.

    Cory Getz 28:11

    That that was so that was the whole thing. Yeah. Are you gonna sit there and be worried about the next stroke for the rest of your liife? Or are you going to actually get out there and live? And I chose that I was an athlete and I was gonna do this.

    Cory Getz 28:30

    Guys, I’m extra lucky I got my physicality back. For those of those that don’t, I mean, I have the most sympathy, the most empathy. I had to learn how to walk. I know exactly what it feels like. Man, do I know what it feels like.

    Don’t Give Up – Cory Getz


    Cory Getz 28:56
    I remember the day that okay, he had me in one of those walking. I don’t know where they hold you up from behind. And he had asked me if I was ready to step off the cement. And you know, just like oh, I’m really positive.

    Cory Getz 29:13

    I was like, oh, yeah, of course. I just one step on the grass and that man I just lost mean I did I fell. I mean, he held me up with the belt and because my brain couldn’t comprehend all the angles that the foot was feeling

    Cory Getz 29:13

    So it didn’t it didn’t know which way was flat. And, and then all of a sudden, there was no flat like I couldn’t comprehend level and then I just went whoa, and just, I just felt like it was crazy. But that’s the thought, I remember that thought because that was the day that I started to learn how to walk again.

    Cory Getz 30:04

    And man, it’s tough. I read on all my buddies, all my buddies on Instagram. I’ve got a lot of, I’ll call them, I reached out to them, just to encourage them. And just tell them to not give up. The main thing is don’t give up. Right?

    Bill Gasiamis 30:26

    Yeah, absolutely, man. I mean, what’s the point of giving up? Giving up is hard, because then you’re not recovering and you’re getting better. And recovery is hard, because you have to do the work to get better. So if you’re going to do something, you may as well do the hard thing that’s going to get you a good result.

    Cory Getz 30:46

    That’s what we’re talking about. Yes. Perfect. Exactly.

    Bill Gasiamis 30:51

    So you’re being been through serious health issue up until that issue? Had you had any setbacks in life? Did you have anything that you could draw on? With regards to recovery that you could say, Okay, I’ve been through something like this before, I’m going to apply what I learned then, to this, this stage of my life.

    Cory Getz 31:19

    I did have shoulder surgery, and knee surgery. But even those recoveries, they don’t really compare, I guess there were some physicality to them, but not the hours that I was putting in for the stroke recovery.

    Cory Getz 31:42

    And that, really, like I was getting up like before everybody, so I could do an hour and go back to sleep, and then get up again to do another hour like, so I mean, it was, I remember the day after I had a stroke, I had told my wife that I would serve again in six months now I knew that was crazy.

    Cory Getz 32:12

    I knew I was probably lying to her and I was lying to myself, but I was gonna convince myself that this is a goal that we’re gonna do. And I said it out loud. And I did it in three months, which looking back at it, it just seems impossible.

    Cory Getz 32:34

    Guys, get your reps in. Listen, the what is it, the PT and the other? They only give you like, maybe 10% 20% of the reps that you need to get your movement back. You guys have to put in like five to a thousand reps a day.

    Cory Getz 32:57

    That’s daily. So please it mean, if you’re not getting close to those numbers and you know, I mean sometimes early on, I didn’t have the energy. I get that. Yeah, I get that. But I wouldn’t spend energy on anything but rehab.

    Cory Getz 33:16

    So during those first three months, any energy that I spent was only on rehab. And then because I had nothing else to do, I was not gonna be in a bed. I was I was not. I was not gonna. I was gonna listen. I didn’t know I would get it all back. I did not know I’d get it all back.

    Cory Getz 33:40

    And I was gonna accept whatever level that I was gonna get back. But I wasn’t gonna accept not trying. Right? I Yeah. I mean, I’m, I’m gonna go all out, try to get whatever I can. And then we’ll come to a realization after that. But I never so during that first year, I never looked at myself and said, Oh, gosh, I can’t lift that cup.

    Cory Getz 34:10

    That means I’m going to be left handed. You know. I mean, you go down this train, like I won’t ever do this, and I won’t do that. And listen, I still had a year to get it all back. It was only month three yes I couldn’t lift that cup just yet. But it was only month three. I still have 9-10 more months to pull this together. So I think that early on. That mentality is probably the toughest thing early on.

    Bill Gasiamis 34:44

    Did you have fatigue days where you were kind of out of it? And you couldn’t really focus on anything or do anything was that something happened?

    Cory Getz 34:53

    Yeah, cuz like I said, I was. I was very active swim team surfer. So, every once in a while, I would double my rehabs. So like, one week, I would be okay, I had that that week was good. So I’m just gonna double my numbers. And that was just never a good idea. I do not recommend that to anybody.

    Cory Getz 35:20

    Please don’t. Because I sat myself right back into the chair for like, a couple days after those. Yes, I needed to work out, but at a certain cost cost to my overall like, you know it because listen when you’re still recovering from a huge brain incident.

    Cory Getz 35:43

    So, I mean, so there was a sweet spot in between working out and not causing yourself like to exhaustion to where you have to spend a couple days to recover just to get the energy to work out again.

    Bill Gasiamis 36:04

    But did you also benefit from that? Because what you’re doing is you’re finding where your limit is, and then you’re minimizing, like you know where it is now. So if I’ve put in an hour and a half, and that’s too much, then you know that you can stop it an hour and 20. And maybe that’s better. Did that support that?

    Cory Getz 36:26

    Yeah, that’s exactly what I was doing. Yeah. In fact, yeah, that’s what I was doing. And that’s what I told myself every time that I said, Okay, well, and then I would just adjust accordingly. And I thought that was important because I was always striving for more.

    Cory Getz 36:44

    And I was never satisfied, guys by the end, I was in better shape than I was to begin with. That’s where I ended up. And to this day I continue with that, because I don’t know I watched what is it? Forks Over Knives on Netflix? And then I switched my whole diet to a plant based diet.

    Nutrition for Stroke Recovery

    Cory Getz 37:11

    So I’m about 70% plant based. I don’t eat meat, but I do eat fish. And I do have some dairy only cheese but not really that much. And gosh, I’ve just felt I’ve never felt better than my whole life. Tell you the truth last year that with the CBD and the whole plan and the exercise. The combination of the three got me really excited for some longevity. I’m gonna speed around for a while.

    Bill Gasiamis 37:48

    Did you stop smoking?

    Cory Getz 37:51

    Yeah, I stopped everything, stopped smoking, stopped drinking, stopped caffeine. There’s one thing I didn’t stop I vaporized cannabis. I don’t light it anymore. I do not light it with an ignition.

    Cory Getz 38:09

    I just heat it and vaporize it but and then I do some tinctures. So I take CBD CBG CBN. Those are like cannabinoids. And I do that with the oral tension. Yeah. So but yeah, as far as alcohol all that I once do, the tobacco, alcohol, and caffeine in the same day.

    Bill Gasiamis 38:41

    I mean, yeah, I get it. It’s important. Right. And did you have withdrawals? Any any caffeine kind of cravings? Any cigarette cravings?

    Cory Getz 38:54

    It was alcohol. Yes. So I craved fresh fruit. Yeah. So I replaced all the alcohol sugar with fresh fruit. So for the first few weeks of the recovery, yeah, I had them cutting up so much fruit. It was really kind of that’s kind of where I started wanting to get better faster.

    Cory Getz 39:19

    Because I had all these people waiting on me that guys, I was too young. I don’t want people waiting on me. I want to help other people. I don’t want them helping me so so I was always trying to I was always trying to do something I just would not sit still.

    Cory Getz 39:40

    I just I don’t know if it’s my ADHD I just wouldn’t sit still. I don’t like it. I I wasn’t going to be a part of my life. I was gonna walk no matter what. Whether it was limping or whatever it was. I was definitely yeah. I’m not sitting down.

    Bill Gasiamis 40:02

    Has ADHD been an issue for you in life in that? At the beginning it was causing you challenges and problems. And then you’ve kind of learned to use it and harness it. And did that support you in recovery? Or did the H ADHD make recovery a little bit more challenging?

    Cory Getz 40:24

    Well, Mom, my ADHD in particular, I like repetitiveness. So, for me, it works for me in that sense. My dad’s more of work on perfectionist where he is, like, has that extra motor, that extra speed? So I have a little bit of that in me also. But yeah, I did I, yeah, I channeled that into recovery, right, I just said, channeled all that energy into recovery. And it definitely helped me.

    Bill Gasiamis 41:04

    Okay. So there you go. There’s ADHD, which has actually come out to be more than useful at some point in life where people normally talk about ADHD as being a an issue. Were you ever medicated for that? Because I know a lot of people are medicated for it so that they can, yeah, focus on tasks on one task. For our time, early on.

    Cory Getz 41:29

    When I was younger, yeah, I was medicated with the Adderall. And then later in life, led me to the abuse of drugs. And so now I do not use either. Yeah, yeah, that was a bad chapter in my life.

    Bill Gasiamis 41:53

    What’s the one of the drugs attempt to do what’s the, the thinking process? Or maybe there’s not a big thinking process, but why did the drugs become involved? What were they supposed to support or help do?

    Cory Getz 42:06

    Oh, no. I mean, I just got to dig into the Adderall. And I like the feeling of the, you know, the feeling that it was giving me. Actually, because with ADHD when you take it up it calms you down, so it didn’t necessarily bring me up, but just the fact it just wasn’t good for me. Both of those weren’t beneficial for my life. Yeah, I didn’t realize it at the time. But neither one was beneficial for my life. I’m much better without them.

    Bill Gasiamis 42:50

    So the Adderall was that right?

    Cory Getz 42:56

    Yeah, it was Adderall.

    Bill Gasiamis 42:58

    So the Adderall is an upper. And when they give that to somebody who has ADHD it brings them down?

    Cory Getz 43:04

    Correct? Yes.

    Bill Gasiamis 43:06

    Wow man, that’s nuts. So what they do is they give people the Adderall so that it can bring them down. And what does that supposed to help them with?

    Cory Getz 43:18

    That focus. Yeah. So you don’t have the scatterbrain, you’ll be able to focus on one task, see it through and not be distracted, very typically, we’ll start a project here, starting a project there, and bouncing between the two or three of them without ever sticking to the task, getting this one thing done, moving to the next, getting that done, move into the next.

    Cory Getz 43:47

    We have a hard time with stick to itiveness and distractibility. And yes, it absolutely helped me with that. It’s no doubt but my addictiveness and where I’d save some during the week, so I can have extra on the week. I mean, it got to a point where it was pure abuse like I would save them to go party and stay up, it was no good.

    Cory Getz 44:22

    It was, like I said back to it was a bad part of my life. But I learned a lot and I don’t regret it, but I see it for what it was. And it was just a young kid. I was just a young kid.

    Bill Gasiamis 44:39

    Has stroke changed the way you experience ADHD now?

    Cory Getz 44:45

    No I would say it’s about the same. Yeah, I would say it’s about the same I just use cannabis instead which is you know, less up and downs, and there’s no addiction and sleep is no problem. And so anyhow, that’s where I’m at right now.

    Bill Gasiamis 45:04

    Yeah. So it sounds like after the stroke, you’ve made a few massive changes, you’ve improved a few things, your diet, you stopped smoking, you stopped drinking alcohol. It seems like you’ve taken these steps so that you can be better healthier, so that you can support other people.

    Bill Gasiamis 45:26

    Why was it important now? Was this the big aha moment for you? Was this like, Hey, dude, you got to do something serious to change the way you’re going about life? Do you feel like you got away with dodging a bullet? Like, why the massive shift?

    Cannabis Care Network – Cory Getz


    Cory Getz 45:43
    Yeah, It’s more of that. I think I got away with dodging a bullet. Yeah, I would say that rings a bell much more than, like, all of a sudden, I’m just on the high road. Yeah, it was, it was like a serious wake up call was like, dude I mean, yeah. It’s unbelievable that I made it through this.

    Cory Getz 46:06

    And I’m sitting here and talking to you today. But that being said, I want to use my experience to help other people. And what I’ve been gifted is the opportunity to the people that I know to create this Cannabis Care Network, and where I can take brain injured adults that that have medical cards, and bring them in, it’s going to start really next year, but up to 50 in Orange County, it’s going to be the pilot program for the US.

    Cory Getz 46:42

    So it should be fairly important. So I’m in the early stages of writing out the, you know, what I want it to look like, and, you know, I’ve been to a couple of brain injured groups. And usually it starts at one table, and it goes from one bad story to worse to another and to where it’s just, it’s very difficult.

    Cory Getz 47:10

    Some of those are really difficult to be in to sit through. And, so I want to create another group that has similar things, but it doesn’t have such the downer feel to it. And then I want to give them tools on how to reword the world.

    Cory Getz 47:37

    And so it makes sense why this person’s angry, because, you know, they, in a separate in their own life, have a whole bunch of things going on, they’re lashing out on you, because you’re the scapegoat for their anger.

    Cory Getz 47:54

    And then as you get more emotionally intelligent, you’re able to write off these hateful opinions so much easier and actually feel sorry for him. It’s incredible when you’re able to really grasp what’s going on and you’re not in that primal brain lashing out with the fight or flight, you know, and you can take it and listen.

    Cory Getz 48:28

    Like you are an extremely good listener Bill. You sat there almost this whole time, listen to me ramble, I go off. And so let me commend you for an exceptional ability to listen, I really do appreciate, feel it feel like I’ve been totally heard on your program. And I really appreciate you contacting me and having me on today for sure.

    Caring For Stroke Survivors

    Bill Gasiamis 48:55

    We need all sorts of voices in this community talking about what’s going on for them. You know, we need different neurological states, we need different emotional states need at all. You said some really wise things there you said, you know, emotional intelligence is really important.

    Bill Gasiamis 49:09

    That’s the only thing you and me have spoken about, which is interesting, because on most other episodes, we only speak about the physical recovery or the mental recovery. So we very rarely talk about the emotional recovery. And a lot of people don’t understand the difference between emotional recovery and psychological recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 49:28

    They don’t realize that the emotional intelligence starts at the heart. You know, we talk about feelings. And we talk about all those things that are related to how we interact with people and our relationships and the psychological recovery. You know, talks about you know, how we make meaning of our world what it means to us, when that person who had a bad day, reacted angrily and caused us harm.

    Bill Gasiamis 49:56

    You know, we made meaning with our head. You hurt emotionally in our heart. But we made meaning in our head, if we make a different meaning, then it will hurt us emotionally less. And the example is that, if we just ask ourselves, what is that person going through in their own life that makes them respond in a negative way to me, because if I do that, then I come up with a different answer.

    Bill Gasiamis 50:21

    And then hopefully, I’m not taking a personally, and then my feelings are being hurt, and then my heart is not being hurt. And my emotional intelligence increases, and then we become sympathetic to that person. And instead of arguing back and being angry at them, they come down, they interact differently with us, because they’ve felt like, you didn’t have a fight with them, or they felt heard.

    Bill Gasiamis 50:48

    And then they have a better acceptance of the kind of person you are, because most of the other people in their lives, they go nuts at them, they get angry at them, they yell back at them, they abuse them, and they make it more personal. But realistically, most of the attacks that we experienced, they’re not personal.

    Bill Gasiamis 51:06

    They’re just the other person not having the right way to communicate what they’re in trouble about right now in their own life, what’s causing them pain and suffering. And they express it in a way that because we’re not emotionally intelligent enough, we miss the opportunity to have a real connection, heart to heart with the person and we’re doing gut to gut reactions. Does that make sense?

    Cory Getz 51:34

    Yes. Well said, yes. It makes perfect sense. We’re, busy reacting to what’s being said, and not analyzing the complete situation that brought it all about? Yeah, it’s very quick to react in the primal brain, and, and lash out, and it takes a much more intelligent person to hold on to those feelings and then expressing them intelligently.

    Cory Getz 52:08

    And, like you said, the difference is the response that you get from the other side, where they actually felt like they’ve been heard. And, they have they have been heard. And, and, that makes just a world of difference. It’s just amazing. Yeah, I’ve only been doing that since the stroke. Yeah. And I use a coach. And, it’s just been the greatest gift. I tell you, It’s really wonderful to not live in the primal brain all the time.

    Bill Gasiamis 52:49

    Yeah. If you had these skills, when you were growing up, experiencing interactions with people when you’re highly affected by ADHD, and the other people don’t get it. If you had these skills, would that have made your life a little easier?

    Cory Getz 53:04

    Yes. Oh, yes. Yeah, that would have made a lot easier. Yeah. One it makes you. Well, you’re able to reframe the conversation, to explain yourself in a better manner. When you’re not yelling at each other, then the conversation becomes about solutions instead of arguing about problems.

    Bill Gasiamis 53:41

    And most people do focus on problems, don’t they? I mean, if you focus and put your energy on problems, you get more problems, and then trying to solve them is impossible, you just go around the loop of more and more problems, you know. And if you’re focusing on solutions, you get more solutions and less problems.

    Bill Gasiamis 53:58

    And you get better at solving problems, because you’re really good at coming up with lots of solutions. And we just don’t realize when sometimes when we’re stuck in a cycle of problems, where stroke is shit, right, it can create a ton of extra problems for us.

    Bill Gasiamis 54:16

    We’ve already got enough in our lives. But for every problem, there’s definitely a solution. And it might not be what you had in your mind. It might not be the ideal solution, but there is a solution that’s better than the situation that you find yourself in right now.

    Cory Getz 54:31

    Right, exactly. Yeah, I don’t really want to step on what you said, I mean, listen, Bill, how long has it been since you had a stroke?

    Bill Gasiamis 54:51

    First stroke was in February 2012. So next year’s coming up on 10 years, and then I had surgery about three years later, in November of 2014, almost three years later, to remove the faulty blood vessel that was in my head that was bleeding. And then I had to learn how to walk again. And then I had to learn how to use my left side again and get back to work and get back to driving and all those things that people miss out on after stroke, you know, had to go through that.

    Cory Getz 55:23

    So that was after the surgery to repair it, right?

    Heart Intelligence

    Bill Gasiamis 55:27

    Yeah, that was after the surgery. So they’ve done something during surgery that’s impacted my body, which is, you know, I accepted quite early on because it removed the possibility of that thing killing me. So it was kind of like, you know, something’s gonna have to give a little bit.

    Bill Gasiamis 55:44

    And this is what I had to go through. And, look, I use the emotional intelligence as well, that’s when I learned about it. I learned about it at 37. When I had the first bleed, about nine months later, after that, is the first time I actually discovered the term, I first time I found about heart intelligence.

    Bill Gasiamis 56:06

    And I found out that I have a heart, like, I knew I had a heart, but I didn’t know what it was there for other than to send blood around the body. Honestly, I thought it was just a pump, you know, but it’s not. It’s where our emotions are. And I learned that that’s where they are, you know, and it was a real big eye opener for me.

    Bill Gasiamis 56:24

    It was a real aha moment, that meant I started to connect with my family better to my children. With my wife, I started listening more, I started being empathetic. And instead of, you know, having solutions to everything for everybody else’s problems, I just, you know, was trying to learn how to lend an ear and try and focus on solving my own problems.

    Bill Gasiamis 56:26

    I went to counseling, I did a lot of counseling as well, because I needed to learn how to interact with people better, so that I wouldn’t get upset and annoyed with them. I never had a real understanding of why they were acting out and giving me a hard time when, in fact, they were just again, like me struggling to communicate effectively.

    Bill Gasiamis 57:09

    And they were struggling to go to their heart, you know, to where their emotions are. And to access that in appropriate ways. And I started to fix relationships and start to make things better, which was really important to me, because I didn’t want to die being an asshole. I wanted to, if I died, I want it to be the guy that remembered as a nice guy, you know, who really tried and really succeeded in, in changing his communication skills from being angry, to being calm and understanding and listening.

    Cory Getz 57:42

    And you know, that’s really hard in the moment. You know, I mean, it’s easy for us to talk about doing but when you’re faced with the moment, and you’re able to choose the calmness. It really is an eye opener to a whole new world, that you don’t have to ruin your day over such little things anymore, and you won’t carry anger into the next thing you know, the next moment, it really changed my life to tell you the truth it really has.

    Bill Gasiamis 58:27

    Yeah. Anger and frustration is not really supportive of stroke recovery is it? I mean, it doesn’t do anything for it. It just makes it harder and worse. And I know when I’m angry, and frustrated, it just makes my deficits feel worse. My left side goes numb. I can’t walk properly. I get really fatigued, so it’s not worth it.

    Cory Getz 58:45

    Yeah, that fatigue cuz, because yeah, you’re spending energy. Yeah, yeah. And if you’re gonna spend that energy, you Why not focus on healing. If you can do that to your body and send it in a tailspin with negativity, then you can also uplift it and repair it. If you send that energy in a positive manner to your limbs and you can tell yourself that we are going to heal.

    Cory Getz 59:15

    And you can tell yourself that we are going to walk, they listen to your body responds to what your mind tells it guys, listen, you can tell it what you want. Don’t tell it negative stuff. Don’t tell your body negative stuff. That’s my main thing is to please just regardless of your recovery, and where you’re at in your recovery, because everybody needs to recover at some point. Even without my stroke, I mean, this would be invaluable information.

    Bill Gasiamis 59:56

    Yeah. And everybody needs support, right. That’s why I offer coaching, so that people can get support in their recovery so that they can find somebody who can guide them. And that’s why you went and got support. And that’s where I went and got support, because you can’t do it alone.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:12

    We’ve never been through this before, we don’t know how to do it properly. It takes a long time, the longer it takes, the less likely we are to get back to a life where we are feeling fulfilled again, you know, so I really wanted to get there quick. So I threw a ton of time and energy into coaching, counseling, you name it, learning about stuff like emotional intelligence, and how that was going to support my recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:39

    So I came across this book, have you heard of this book? It’s called Emotional Intelligence, by Daniel Goleman.

    Cory Getz 1:00:50

    I have to check it out.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:52

    Yeah, right. It’s a real scientific Lee kind of backed up and proven book. And it talks about how emotional intelligence can be used for benefit in the corporate world, but also in the regular world, where it’s not about corporations, but how much of a difference, and a positive result you can have when CEOs and general managers and vice presidents are emotionally intelligent.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:19

    And how that will help them grow their business and their companies. So that they’re doing good for everybody, you know, the people that they’re supporting with the service they’re offering, but also the people that are working for them.

    Cory Getz 1:01:33

    Right. I mean, I know that people listening might think that we’re using like a catchphrase or something. But it’s really important, because what we’re talking about is active listening, and problem solving, but where you’re actually hearing the person’s needs, and you’re not overrunning them with your own ideas and thoughts, and, and it’s more of a two way conversation, I don’t know how to explain.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:02:04

    Yeah it’s heart to heart, it’s a more deeper connection.

    Cory Getz 1:02:09

    Yes. And then people respond to that connection, like you said, in a completely different manner. So I can only imagine if you were a business partner, or somebody, I’m using it in business, where you would probably get so much more productivity out of your workforce if you used “It’s not what you say, It’s how you say it”.

    Cory Getz 1:02:42

    And then you would be able to get so much more productivity out of, let’s say, your workforce with a different approach that it takes in consideration their feelings, and you know you can go on and on from there, but I’ll definitely check out that book. Based on your recommendation, I would be excited to check that out.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:06

    Yeah, it’s a great book now. Just as we go to wrap this up, I’m wondering, so what’s next for you? Are you still in the process of trying to get some additional wins on the board? Where are you at?

    What’s Next for Corey Getz


    Cory Getz 1:03:21
    Currently, I currently surf so I’m learning to surf bigger waves at the moment. Really big waves, like five or seven foot? Like they’re 10 foot on the face, yes. So now I didn’t really take on those kind of big waves. But I’ve been training and doing some surf specific training, and I have a surfing coach.

    Cory Getz 1:03:49

    And therefore I feel like I can start to take that on. But it’s, again, a learning process, but it’s something I’m excited about. But what I’m more excited about is this brain injury group that I’m in, this is really where I’m at. I want to give back I want to give back with my knowledge of emotional intelligence and help people also with CBD, and then help them in their overall recovery.

    Cory Getz 1:04:21

    Be a positive light and change in their life. And encourage their growth. And, and then just see where that goes. I’m in charge of the pilot program, they’ve done some cannabis, veteran groups, but this would be the first outside of the veterans. So I would like to set up something that can be repeated. And I want it to be really well written and really structured so that it’s really a strong program that can be copied and that would really make me happy.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:04

    And it sounds like it’s gonna be scientifically based, and you’re gonna have some data and you’re gonna be able to report on that data, and then you’re going to be able to improve on the program.

    Cory Getz 1:05:14

    Yes, yes, absolutely. Coming in, you know, coming in, we’ll give them some questionnaires and probably, you know, score sheets. And then, you know, eight months down the line, we’ll give the same thing you know, see where they’re at. Once you start using the tools of emotional intelligence, serious things start happening and it improves your life, guys, it improves your life so much.

    Cory Getz 1:05:47

    Because you’re not taking on somebody else’s grief and you’re not taking on that. It just enlightens you so much not to carry these burdens. Look, if you’re not into it, please look into it. Bill will tell you himself that I mean he’s got the book straight in front. And these tools are highly useful to all humans, not just stroke rehab people to any adult that’s looking to grow into the next level. If you need, you’re looking for some spiritual growth, and you really want to look into your soul, then this is the direction you need to head.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:06:35

    Cory gets thank you for being on the podcast.

    Cory Getz 1:06:38

    All right. Thank you, Bill. Yeah, this is great. I really appreciate you having me on.

    Intro 1:06:44

    Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals opinions and treatment protocols, disgusting any podcast or the individual’s own experience, and we did not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed.

    Intro 1:07:01

    All content on this website at any linked blog, podcast or video material controlled this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis, the content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing.

    Intro 1:07:18

    It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice. The information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances or health objectives. Do not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose treat, cure or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional.

    Intro 1:07:38

    Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional, your doctor or your rehabilitation program based on our content. If you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition, please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional if you are experiencing a health emergency or think you might be, call triple zero if in Australia, or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance or go to the nearest hospital emergency department.

    Intro 1:08:03

    Medical information changes constantly. While we aim to provide current quality information in our content. We did not provide any guarantees and assume no legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, currency or completeness of the content. If you choose to rely on any information within our contents you do so solely at your own risk. We are careful with links we provide however third party links from our website are followed at your own risk and we are not responsible for any information you find there.

    The post Pontine Stroke Recovery – Corey Getz appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

    1 hr 10 min
  • Applying The Concept Of Corporate Leadership To Stroke Recovery – Mike Cameron

    Mike Cameron is a leadership coach and the author of the books, Effective Leader and The Emerging Leader.

    Website:

    https://www.strategically.com.au/

    Highlights:

    02:21 Introduction

    05:51 Leadership
    13:22 D.I.S.C
    20:13 Delegating tasks
    27:25 Goal planning
    32:01 It’s okay to fail
    39:42 Behavior and how it impacts others
    47:23 Empathy vs sympathy
    56:04 Leadership in recovery
    1:01:57 The four attributes
    1:11:24 Cultural diversity
    1:21:36 Losing trust

    Transcription:

    Mike 0:00

    The first thing I would say is you need to understand what triggers negative thoughts. Somebody says something and immediately it takes you back in time to when you were a little kiddie, and somebody criticized you or didn’t choose you for the football team.

    Mike 0:16

    So in my book I talk about the very first thing you need to do is to have a check process. As an example there is one that’s known to a lot of people called DISC Dominance, Influence, Stability and Compliance and where do you fit in that.

    Mike 0:35

    So if you’ve been a person who’s been a very dominant leader or a very dominant manager, and suddenly here you are lying helpless after a stroke, and people are taking control, part of you may be fighting anything that is they’re trying to help you.

    Intro 0:56

    This is the recovery after stroke podcast, with Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:09

    Hello, and welcome to recovery after stroke a podcast full of answers, advice, and practical tools for stroke survivors to help you take back your life after a stroke and build a stronger future.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:21

    I’m your host three-time stroke survivor Bill Gasiamis. After my own life was turned upside down, and I went from being an active father to being stuck in hospital I knew if I wanted to get my life back after stroke, and back to the one I loved before my recovery was up to me.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:37

    After years of researching and discovering, learn how to heal my own brain and rebuild a healthier and happier life than I ever dreamed possible. And now I’ve made it my mission to empower others stroke survivors like you to recover faster achieve your goals and take back the freedom you deserve.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:54

    If you enjoyed this episode and want more resources, accessible training, and hands on support, check out my recovery after stroke membership community created especially for stroke survivors and caregivers.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:05

    This is your clear pathway to transform your symptoms, reduce your anxiety and navigate your journey to recovery with confidence, head to recoveryafterstroke.com To find out more after this episode. But for now let’s dive right into today’s show.

    Introduction

    Bill Gasiamis 2:21

    This is episode 172. And my guest today is Mike Cameron, who is the author of the book Effective Leaders. In this episode, we apply the concept of corporate leadership to stroke recovery, for some useful insights that may help you in your recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:37

    Now, just before we get started, if you’re enjoying these episodes, and this podcast and you believe that it is useful, please leave the show a review on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts from.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:49

    And if you’re watching on YouTube, please give the show a thumbs up and share and tell me your thoughts by leaving a comment. I love reading them and interacting with the show actively rather than just listening passively will make a tremendous difference to how many other stroke survivors can find the show. Thanks so much. And please enjoy this episode. Mike Cameron, welcome to the podcast.

    Mike 3:15

    Well, thanks very much indeed Bill.

    Bill Gasiamis 3:17

    Thanks for being here. You’re the author of a couple of books that piqued my curiosity. And I figured there’s definitely a way to merge your area of expertise into stroke recovery. And your first book is The Emerging Leader. And your second book is effective leaders.

    Bill Gasiamis 3:43

    And I see leaders and leadership really merging with recovery because one of the things that I think a stroke survivor needs to do is do self leadership. If that’s such a thing, I don’t even know if it’s a term that’s commonly used, but it’s part of the task of taking responsibility for your own recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 4:05

    And a lot of the responsibility in recovery from stroke or any serious ailment is outsourcing the responsibility for me getting better to somebody else. And that usually involves a doctor. And fair enough because they put themselves at the top of the pyramid of recovery, when you have something serious like stroke happen.

    Bill Gasiamis 4:32

    And for good reason because they are scientifically trained and proven to be able to improve outcomes for people who have a stroke. But then there’s this situation that occurs that we outsource all of that on them in some cases, and don’t take responsibility for our own recovery and then miss the opportunity to lead ourselves out of this really challenging and serious situation that we find ourselves in.

    Bill Gasiamis 5:05

    And it often creates a feeling for some stroke survivors, or for me, at least of not being in control of anything, and not being in a position to guide my own life and kind of feeling in somebody else’s hands, and they don’t really know how I want to structure my life going forward, or what I want to achieve, or what my challenges are coming into this and what I have to overcome. So can we talk a little bit about your definition of a leader? First, what you think a leader is? So that we can kind of frame the conversation going forward?

    Leadership

    Mike 5:51

    Yes, I’d like to do that. I think firstly, the most important thing to understand and I think why you’re asking me to talk about ultimately leadership of self, you can’t actually lead other people until you know how to lead yourself.

    Mike 6:11

    So the importance, first of all, is to understand one, who you are, what you are, what you want to achieve, what your vision is, regardless of where you are in life, whether you’re a supervisory level, or whether you’re an executive level, whether you’ve come from university or so on.

    Mike 6:32

    At some stage, you will interact with other people. And how you interact with other people, ultimately, is, from a point of view of yourself first, how you think about yourself, how you’ve managed your development.

    Mike 6:49

    And what are the things that trigger the negative thoughts that go into your brain when other people communicate with you. So you asked me what is leadership? Leadership is the privilege that you are given to be able to guide people to an outcome, a group a team, it may be a very, very large organization that you have accountability for.

    Mike 7:18

    And one of my recent posts, there was a comment from Simon Sinek, that talked about being a leader was understanding that the team, other people create what your vision is, your job, therefore, is to allow them the space to do the job you want them to do. One because they want to do it for themselves. And two, they want to do for you and the company or the business, whatever.

    Mike 7:51

    So leadership is about giving up the doing of the job, finding the people who can do the job nurturing and supporting them, and allowing them to have the responsibility at the delivery of what you’ve communicated to them.

    Mike 8:11

    Now you’re accountable for choosing the right people. And you’re accountable to your manager for your selection of the outcome being achieved. So if you think about it, and you are allowing somebody else to do the job, sometimes you’re going to be a coach, sometimes you’re going to be a mentor.

    Mike 8:32

    Sometimes you’re going to be the subject matter expert, listen, John, I’ll show you how to do the job. But you’re not there to jump in and micromanage. And you’re not there to do more than support coach and monitor. That’s what I think a good manager is a good leader is and then we can start talking about self management. And what do I mean by all of the things that allow you to empower other people.

    Bill Gasiamis 9:07

    I love what you said there because I can automatically superimpose that on to recovery from stroke. So I in my 10 steps to recovery from stroke. I have one of the steps is creating a community of people that are going to help you in your recovery and move forward.

    Bill Gasiamis 9:30

    And part of that community includes the doctors. Part of that community includes family and friends. It includes allied health professionals. It includes masseurs, it includes coaches, counselors. It includes spiritual leaders, if that’s something that appeals to you.

    Bill Gasiamis 9:52

    It includes anybody that’s going to guide you whether they are involved in a way where you have specifically recruited them or pay them to bring you further along in your understanding of this situation that you find yourself in, or they just happen to be there. It’s this community that I put together that I chose, that I’m leading towards my vision of recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 10:26

    But one of the things that I think I’ve missed is, what my vision of recovery was, I don’t think I ever actually reiterated that or even spoke about that once to any of the people in my group, or in my team, my recovery team. And I especially didn’t have a conversation with my doctors about what my vision for the future was, and therefore help inform them about how I wanted them to support me in my recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 10:59

    And then from there helped me overcome the brain injury, and all the different things. So there was a key element that I think was missed there that, I think now looking back that if I had had that conversation, I think it would have decreased the amount of time that I was searching for purpose, and meaning and all those other things.

    Bill Gasiamis 11:23

    Because I hadn’t ever developed a vision for my life after stroke, because stroke was this thing that caught up with me suddenly. And I never really came to have the space to work out what was going on, I had to go into reaction mode to make myself not die, and then to get myself back into some kind of existence that I felt was meaningful.

    Mike 11:56

    Yeah. Let me ask you one other thing, just when you first realize that you’d had the stroke, and you’re starting to be supported, or you had doctors around you who were taking control of trying to get you back to being stable, and so on.

    Mike 12:20

    My thought process would be that you would have to really look internally to what you were trying to do. And that did is align with where other people were coming to try and support you. I’ve had two serious motorbike accidents in my life, very serious motorbike accidents.

    Mike 12:44

    And on both occasions, I have bullied by becoming the executive, I bullied the medical people to allow me to leave hospital before I should have left hospital. Because I was under so many drugs that were pain killing.

    Mike 13:02

    And yet the reality is my body was so badly damaged, that it wasn’t until I got home, and then started coming out of the pain killers that I realized just how painful life was. And in fact, on the last time, I couldn’t even move.

    Leadership – D.I.S.C

    Mike 13:22

    So one of the things about leadership and knowing yourself is to know what sort of person you are. Because when you suddenly are in a situation where you need the help of somebody else, and support of somebody else are you feeling less yourself? Are you feeling fragile? Are you feeling fearful? Are you feeling lots of things that are negative to you accepting that person’s help?

    Mike 14:01

    So it will regardless of whether we’re talking about somebody facing a stroke situation or whatever, the first thing I would say is, you need to understand what triggers negative thoughts. Somebody says something and immediately it takes you back in time to when you were a little kiddie and somebody criticized you or didn’t choose you for the football team or whatever it might have been.

    Mike 14:31

    So in my book I talk about the very first thing you need to do is to have a check process there’s lots of models around I’m not particularly pushing any one model, but as an example there is one that’s known to a lot of people called D.I.S.C Dominance, Influence, Stability and Compliance.

    Mike 14:59

    And where do you Isn’t that so if you’ve been a person who’s been a very dominant leader or a very dominant manager, and suddenly here you are lying helpless after a stroke, and people are taking control, part of you may be fighting anything that is they’re trying to help you.

    Mike 15:21

    So yes, there’s certainly things we can talk about, about how do I manage those feelings, and why am I feeling them? And that gets us into emotional resilience, emotional agility, emotional intelligence. What do I mean by that?

    Bill Gasiamis 15:41

    One of the things that often impacts stroke survivors is obviously they’re in a state, most people who have a stroke are in a state where their mind doesn’t work, it doesn’t think it doesn’t operate the way that it was before the stroke. And that’s usually in the acute phase.

    Bill Gasiamis 15:59

    And then you kind of come out of that, and you start to get your thinking mind back, and it starts to settle down. And what I find that also gets in the way is the emotional resilience part of the recovery is a big barrier to people in stroke recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 16:19

    So often, knowing yourself is something that generally seems to be missed by the people that I’ve interviewed on the podcast, the 170 odd people that I’ve interviewed so far, generally, they miss knowing themselves, because they haven’t had the time and space in their life, to get to know themselves, what they’ve done is they’ve become a parent, they’ve become a full-time employer, full time employee.

    Bill Gasiamis 16:49

    Whatever they’ve become, and they’ve not really given themselves opportunity to dive deep and know themselves and know where they sit in the world, and how the world needs to be organized around them so that they feel like they’re achieving an amazing experience in life right?

    Bill Gasiamis 17:06

    So they often then don’t know their visions and their values, because they’re running somebody else’s visions and values, you’re in a work environment, and you’re trying to achieve your company’s visions and values.

    Bill Gasiamis 17:19

    And then, because you have had these experiences from your life, when you were a kid, and you didn’t really understand what was happening when you weren’t getting picked up for the football team.

    Bill Gasiamis 17:33

    You developed the opposite of emotional resilience. And some people have gone into their adult life with the same behaviors and habits that they used. And were useful on the football field when you were 10 years old.

    Bill Gasiamis 17:51

    And haven’t realized that those emotional outbursts or behaviors, aren’t useful anymore in life, they’re not any more relevant when you’re a 30 year old. And you need to upgrade that level of your way of being or the way that you interact with people.

    Bill Gasiamis 18:10

    But they often don’t know how to, so they get stuck. So what I’m saying when I’m using the term, they I’m really speaking about me Mike, I’m describing myself. So when I found myself in stroke recovery, I had to contend with these three things that I wasn’t doing well.

    Bill Gasiamis 18:31

    And now I had to have this communication with my doctor’s, which I couldn’t possibly do effectively, because I was experiencing a bleed in the brain, which was impacting my ability to just think cognitively. But I was also lacking these other things that had already not developed enough of by the time I was 37 years old, because I never knew that they were important.

    Mike 19:03

    Yeah, believe it or not Bill, there are so many people who become leaders become senior managers, who are 37, 40, early 40s, whatever. And they still have not actually ended up knowing enough about themselves. And they fail and they fail because ultimately, they try to do things which they have no understanding of how to do and shouldn’t be doing anyway.

    Mike 19:36

    Or have difficulty in communication with other people in a way that asks a lot of questions for which they don’t have answers. In other words, how many managers do you know that are prepared to say we need to achieve so and so what are your thoughts?

    Mike 19:59

    How do you think we shouldn’t do that? Because the people they are asking are the people that actually are going to do the job. Now you might know, you might have even written the guidelines on how to do a particular job.

    Delegating tasks – Mike Cameron

    Mike 20:13

    But the reality is you’re not going to be doing it, it’s going to be a team of people or an individual or whatever. And too many people who have not understood what a leadership role is, stay in command, rather than in fact, making sure that the people that the task is delegated to somebody in a smart way.

    Mike 20:40

    And by that, I mean, is the task I’m talking to you about specific? Is it measurable in a way that you know, when I want it delivered? At what quality level? At what standard? Is it actually achievable? Do you have the tools, the time the skills and all of the knowledge to be able to do that job in terms of resources and competencies?

    Mike 21:12

    The next one is it realistic. In other words, a lot of times we dump on people, rather than checking what their to do list is like, and how many tasks they have. And the final part of smart to me is the most important, tangible, and by tangible and what I mean by that is, what’s in it for the person doing the job?

    Mike 21:37

    Do they feel that in fact, it’s a valuable task they’re doing? Do they feel it’s part of the overall objective of what the company is looking for? Do they feel part of the deal? Or do they just feel they’re a cog in the wheel, and they’re being dumped on. And that’s how you allocate how you delegate a job.

    Mike 22:05

    And ultimately, empower the person to do it. And I suppose what I’m really trying to say in leadership until you get to the stage where you’re not fearful of delegating, fearful of empowering somebody who might in fact, become smarter than you and move on. You’re not going to become that real key leader.

    Bill Gasiamis 22:31

    Yeah, I love that analogy. Because the smart method of setting up goals and achieving goals and going into an outcome in goals is so applicable to rehabilitation. And again, these are conversations that I didn’t have with my therapists, but they did kind of skirt around these outcomes in a way that was almost specific, measurable, achievable, relevant, and time bound.

    Bill Gasiamis 23:13

    The one thing that I think shouldn’t apply to stroke recovery is time. Because it seems to be what trips a lot of people up, they put time on to the recovery process. And then when they don’t meet their goal, or their milestone, for some people, that seems to be a reason to get down in the dumps and depressed by that.

    Bill Gasiamis 23:42

    And it gives them a bit of a setback in their recovery. But I don’t know anyone that I’ve spoken to that specifically set out to create specific goals for recovery, that were measurable, where they were able to look back on those and see how far they’ve come that were also achievable.

    Bill Gasiamis 24:08

    And that were relevant, because most of the recovery is designed and implemented by people that didn’t have the stroke, that perhaps didn’t have enough time to consult with you about how you wanted to go about your recovery. And what’s missed in stroke recovery is that emotional, and psychological recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 24:35

    There’s a massive focus on the physical recovery because that’s what your therapists can see. But there’s a very small amount of that. That’s focused on okay, if we managed to get that person walking again. What else do we need to do to help create a well rounded recovery or a full recovery and there isn’t much focus allocated to the emotional aspect of it and the psychological aspect of it, people seem to stumble their way around that.

    Mike 25:11

    Let me just throw one other thing into the melting pot before we move away from know yourself and goals.

    Intro 25:20

    If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. Like, how long will it take to recover? Will I actually recover? What things should I avoid? In case I make matters worse, doctors will explain things that obviously, you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask.

    Intro 25:44

    If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying, and head to recovery after stroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you it’s called a seven questions to ask your doctor about your stroke.

    Intro 26:04

    These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition, they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery, head to the website. Now, recoveryafterstroke.com and download the guide. It’s free.

    Mike 26:22

    Sometimes when I’m consulting with somebody that’s been promoted up to an executive position, I will ask them, or if I’m talking to somebody who’s setting up a new business, they’ll leave in corporate life, they’re going to go off in their own way. The same questions fit into both categories.

    Mike 26:45

    The first thing you say is where am I now? Where am I? What’s happened to me? What have I done? Where am I now? And there’s lots of things around that that you can look at. The second is where do I want to go? And the third is, how do I get there? Now so those three questions, I think are absolutely critical for you as the stroke victim to try and understand and ask enough questions of people around you to support you is how do I get there?

    Goal planning

    Mike 27:25

    Because I know, what I want to achieve is the recovery. Yeah. Now maybe it takes a while if you’re that, you know, in such a state and getting your brain working properly. But what I’m saying is, those are the three stages. Now let me just go back to the goal setting the goal planning.

    Mike 27:48

    The most important thing with goal planning, is to turn it into focus goals, something that you can achieve within 24 hours. Not what can I achieve in a week, what can I achieve in a month? What can I achieve? What do I need to do today, to move one step forward towards the bigger goal?

    Mike 28:13

    And to limit the number of those focus goals that you put on yourself, depending upon where you are with resources and your strength and your energy levels and so on. So, yeah, it’s goals are still smart, specific, measurable, achievable, attainable, realistic, I beg your pardon and timeframes. That’s the goal.

    Mike 28:45

    But what I am asking you to think about is break those down into something that is very achievable by the end of the day. And make certain that you put it onto a priority list, if you’ve got a number of things you’re getting to the stage of being in recovery.

    Mike 29:06

    And you’ve got lots of tasks, some of those can be missed. Some of them can’t, some of them are top priority, you need to finish that. So you need to prioritize you need to know at times what you can leave behind and what you can’t leave behind.

    Bill Gasiamis 29:25

    Yeah, I like that those small goals, those daily goals, those really easily achievable goals will make you feel like you’ve achieved something in reflecting back you’ll have a few quick wins on the scoreboard, and therefore you’ll be able to stack those wins up and you’ll be able to get some momentum towards achieving things.

    Bill Gasiamis 29:50

    And then when you have a setback, it won’t be such a bad thing that I had one setback, but I’ve actually had 10 wins already. So let’s just keep going for the next one. and focus on how to get that outcome the one where, what do I want? Where am I now? Where would I prefer to be? And then how do I get there?

    Mike 30:12

    Yeah. And that’s part of that emotional intelligence bill. And you’re absolutely right. Most of us if we’ve got a goal that we fail on, because we’ve made it so far away, or it’s so big, that it is very difficult to get there, we start making our mind think that we are failing when we have a setback.

    Mike 30:39

    Whereas if you have a focus goal, at the end of the day, I feel really good. If you end up at the end of a day, and you’ve missed one focus goal out of five or out of six focus goals, you miss one, what do you start thinking about now is what could I have done better?

    Mike 30:57

    What could I have done to have established was that goal, a little bit of a challenge a little bit beyond me? Had I communicated correctly with my doctor or my massage therapist, whatever it might have been, you aren’t blaming yourself, you actually are in a stage where you are now working, and you’re in a positive moving forward.

    Mike 31:23

    Now, I’m not a person that believes that life is all full of positivity. I’m not, that’s not where I come from. So there is a reality at times, life’s going to be tough. But if you break things down, and you know that you are going to come up, what’s my plan B?

    Mike 31:45

    How do I handle something? If I don’t achieve or I’m not achieving what I want to? Is it okay to go back to the drawing board? And redesign? How do I get to? And of course, it’s absolutely right.

    It’s okay to fail

    Bill Gasiamis 32:01

    Yeah, it’s definitely okay to fail. It’s definitely okay for things not always be going good. Stroke really creates a lot of things that are not good. And they can be overwhelming the same time, I think it’s really important to focus on what is good. And if people that are going through some tough things, can stop themselves for a moment, it’s okay, what’s good about this situation?

    Bill Gasiamis 32:27

    Even if what’s good about it is I’m learning something new. Well, then that’s good enough to take you to that next level of curiosity for example, what else can I learn about this situation? What else can I learn about myself? What else can I learn about the thing that I didn’t achieve? Or what can I learn from applying what I’ve already achieved?

    Bill Gasiamis 32:47

    And how much further can I go? So I agree with you that there’s no such thing as just, you know, the positive mindset and the focused mindset on recovery all the time, there’s got to be that time for reassessing everything. And I think what helps you reassess and readjust your trajectory and work out your your path forward is those setbacks, I think that’s those setbacks are the ones that help you actually get more focused and better targeted, better aimed at the ultimate goal.

    Bill Gasiamis 33:23

    Which, for example, for me might have been, you know, just to get back to, you know, nice and big, broad goal at the beginning, just to get back to being a good father, and then everything else can come after that. But if I can be a good father, that’s pretty easy to achieve, even though I’m recovering from stroke, and everything is really difficult.

    Bill Gasiamis 33:44

    And perhaps I can’t go to the football field and play with my children and take them on that trip that I was planning to take them on and spend some time with them in this specific location or during this specific event.

    Bill Gasiamis 33:58

    Well, maybe I can just be a good father by telling them I love them or more and apologizing for the things that I’ve done in the past that, you know, maybe as a Dad, I miss treated them or, or didn’t give them the correct amount of encouragement or whatever. So I love that idea that actually part of the moving forward. Are those steps back.

    Mike 34:25

    Well, let’s just take because what you’ve talked through there is three forms of the emotional intelligence, family if you like. Emotional intelligence is understanding first of all, what is triggering things inside you? What are you hearing? What are you reacting to?

    Mike 34:51

    And the second part of that is, what is my strategy to manage what the impact of somebody doing something or my reaction to something? How do I manage that to stay comfortable within myself? Okay, so those are intrapersonal skills that you need to learn.

    Mike 35:18

    On top of that, to be an emotionally intelligent person, you have to have empathy for other people, you have to understand where you sit in a group of people, it can’t be all about you all the time. And you need to have effective communication, and understand your role in that team, environment, and so on.

    Mike 35:43

    That’s emotional intelligence. Now, emotional intelligence and what we’ve talked about so far, life isn’t just beautiful, even if you’ve got all these skills, every now and again, somebody is going to do something from left field that is going to annoy you, and you lose the plot for a moment, or you react in a way that actually wasn’t beneficial to you, the group or whatever.

    Mike 36:11

    And the or the other person may do that to you for no reason at all. Now, emotional resilience is being able to manage the situation of disappointment, of not getting what you expected of dealing with that, whilst you’re also dealing with those inter intrapersonal things of how, what’s my reaction to it? And what’s my strategy, so I don’t create a problem.

    Mike 36:42

    Now, in today’s world, we’ve moved one further step. And it’s a vital step. And I would say a vital step, probably when you are needing other people. And that is moving to what’s called Emotional agility. And that is realizing your place in a group of people. What’s the atmosphere you choose? What’s the environment you create?

    Mike 37:12

    You’re talking about sometimes you might feel that I need to talk to the kids in a way because I haven’t done particular things. Now in emotional agility, what you are actually also going to analyze is, am I doing it for the kids? Or am I doing it for myself? In other words, Am I doing it because I think I ought to do it. And I’m feeling a bit guilty.

    Mike 37:39

    So I’m going to have this emotional, loving, or say things. Now that’s all about you. It is not about the relationship or how you want the children to feel emotional agility has come from the space of am I seeing that the kids actually would love me to give them a cuddle, or would actually love me to ask them more about what they’ve been doing.

    Mike 38:06

    Because I haven’t been able to go out with them or whatever it might be. So those sorts of things bill are, in my view, and quite a lot of it’s in that first walk of emerging leaders is moving into that space, of understanding the basics of emotional intelligence, there’s really two keys, then move up to emotional resilience, and then move to the stage of emotional agility.

    Mike 38:36

    You know, I’ll give you a lovely little story. Can you imagine a boss who walks in talks to everyone one day, how are you going Bill and asked you a few things, eventually gets to his office and for the rest of the day, you don’t see him. Next day, he walks in, head down, he goes into his office, the door slams.

    Mike 39:00

    And then he comes out about three hours later. And he shouts at somebody to come into his office. Oh, how are you feeling about that particular boss? What’s gonna happen the next day? So you are in a situation where you are wondering about how that person lives if you like in the environment?

    Mike 39:23

    Is he consistent? Is he predictable? Or is he in an emotional imbalance for the group that he’s in? In other words, he really doesn’t understand the impact he’s having in the space in which he’s working.

    Behavior and how it impacts others

    Bill Gasiamis 39:41

    Not only I can I imagine a boss like that? I’ve experienced a boss like that. But now that you mentioned that, and now that we’re kind of merging, leadership with stroke recovery and my desire to recover well and be better version of myself after the stroke. I can imagine I can remember times when I behaved like that at home, not only at work, but also at home.

    Bill Gasiamis 40:11

    And came home one day, all happy, cheerful and all that kind of stuff from work, and then came back home the next day, being completely shitty head down, angry, annoyed. And for all intents and purposes, everybody else around me is thinking that pretty much everything is the same.

    Bill Gasiamis 40:35

    And they don’t know what it was that caused me to, let’s call it misbehave or behave inappropriately, and then not communicate what my problems were. And therefore, create this barrier around me where people were walking on eggshells. And I suppose I became more aware that I was acting out or misbehaving after the stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 41:03

    Because it became important to me to actually be aware of how my conversations were impacting my kids. And I didn’t want them to be impacting my kids in a negative way. And it was definitely about me, because I wanted to make sure that if I dropped off the planet, that they were going to at least have a decent experience with their Dad and remember me fondly more than the other.

    Bill Gasiamis 41:03

    But at the same time, I wanted to make it about them, so that they wouldn’t have to deal with stuff, for no reason that was actually not their fault. And then they and that would then hopefully minimize the scarring that I would create in their life, and therefore hopefully minimize the possibility that they would be dysfunctional in society at work with their relationships later on in life.

    Mike 41:58

    Yeah. Bill what good coaching is all about is for that awareness that you’ve just talked about isn’t unusual by the way. It happens lots and lots of times to lots of people. And ultimately, until you actually understand the impact it’s having on other people on your team, or whatever, it will also be having a huge impact on yourself.

    Mike 42:31

    Because until you understand it, and until you come up with a strategy. Now, when I’m talking to either a group, or I’m talking one on one will do it now. I ended up being very successful with ici in the explosives division of ici and running a group that looked after quarries and construction, and coming up with some new ideas and building teams. And sometimes I was really frustrated.

    Mike 43:05

    And sometimes I would go home at night. And I would want to and I would tell my wife all about the negative things and I would dump on her. Now, can you imagine what her view of life and what her view of the company and what her view of the team. And this is the early days of that whole development was, she had a view that there was some pretty nasty people in the company.

    Mike 43:34

    And the company wasn’t really looking after me. And I was dumping on hair with all the negativity whilst I was at work, being this open manager that was you know, all light and open and come up. I’ve got an open door policy. But I wasn’t living the truth. At the time, I was carrying a lot of stuff. And I had a heart attack at 54.

    Mike 44:05

    Because my body eventually said like inside you I was all tensed up. And the point I’m making that in leadership from emerging up to through those is to understand how many things you’ve done through your 20s your 30s your 40s that you’ve managed, but the reality is, they’re not doing you any good.

    Mike 44:34

    And you’re not actually becoming that effective leader. And you won’t until one you know it. And you’re honest about it and you say I really don’t handle it very well. There are times that my strategy isn’t working, dumping it on your wife, dumping it on your partner dumping it on your right hand man woman in the office is not the way to be a good team leader.

    Mike 45:00

    It’s actually have strategies that work and support you and move forward. And ultimately allow you to talk up in the right way. And ask for the support you need or the resources you need. And give enough empowerment for things to be done in little in the way that they should be.

    Bill Gasiamis 45:23

    Yeah, you know, the empathetic relationships part of your model is a really interesting one, because it’s one thing, being empathetic to others. But also having self empathy is really important, isn’t it? Because if you’re constantly beating on yourself and saying, you know, I’m shit at this, or I’m terrible at that or, look at how you can’t do anything, well, this is not going to support an active recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 45:51

    And it’s not going to support an active recovery mindset, it’s not going to align the person with the goals that they set that were measurable, and so on at the beginning of this whole process, you know, and I think that others, a lot of people have experienced a stroke and are so hard on themselves, simply because they experienced a stroke, they kind of allowed themselves to have a stroke, or they created the environment to have a stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 46:24

    Now, I created the environment to make the stroke that happened to me more possible because I was born with a blood vessel that was faulty in my head, but then I created the perfect storm around it to give it the best opportunity to bleed. But if I was going to stay in that space, then this could have potentially been even more catastrophic.

    Bill Gasiamis 46:54

    Whereas it was important for me to let go of what I had done and take some responsibility for my actions, but then also change something so that I don’t continue to feel bad about what I’d previously done. And, and stop doing those things in the future, so that the shift could be moving me towards recovery, rather than staying in that space.

    Empathy vs sympathy – Mike Cameron

    Mike 47:24

    Let me just go back to your word about empathy, because people quite often misunderstand the difference between empathy and sympathy. And there’s a huge difference. Empathy is I understand the pain. Now you might understand it, because you’ve actually dealt with, it might be adopted, seeing lots of people who are going through the stroke situation that you’ve experienced.

    Mike 47:56

    They can be empathetic about the pain, and the struggle, and the challenges you’re going through that it’s empathy. They haven’t experienced it, but they’ve experienced other people doing it, and how they manage it. Sympathy is where you’ve been a stroke victim, and here’s another stroke victim.

    Mike 48:19

    And you get into the mire of the feeling, and all of a sudden, you’re adding to the pain, because you’re starting to talk about your experience and all the things that didn’t quite go right for you in your recovery. And this person is only on the start of the journey. And there’s a lovely little cartoon that I saw many, many years ago about this person that had gone down into a big pit.

    Mike 48:49

    And there was a manhole at the top. And he was crying because he couldn’t find his way out and somebody was walking past. And he shouted down and say You okay, I can’t see my way out. I’m all lost, and he started crying out for help. Now the person who is sympathetic, immediately goes down the manhole because he can see the ladder at the top and off he goes.

    Mike 49:18

    And he goes to the voice, and he’s now as lost as the voice was because they’re in the darkness. Whereas the person who’s empathetic, looks up and says hang on a minute. He gets his mobile phone out. And he puts the camera light on, and he shines it down the walkway and says to the person down below, can you see the bottom of the ladder?

    Mike 49:45

    Yes, we’ll walk over to it. I’m up here to talk to you when you get up top. That’s empathy. I understand your problem. I’ll help you get out of it. But I’m not gonna climb in and wallow in the pain that you’re feeling.

    Bill Gasiamis 50:06

    Empathy sounds like it’s actually encouraging the person to, it’s actually teaching the person to fish, whereas sympathy is giving the person the fish.

    Mike 50:18

    Absolutely right spot on, spot on.

    Bill Gasiamis 50:21

    Right? It is a massive distinction, I love that I kind of understood the difference between the two. But that really paints a clear picture as to the difference between the two, and how one should behave. When you come across somebody who’s doing a tough or gone going through difficult times, it’s definitely better to teach them how to manage the difficult time on their own, rather than putting your hand on their shoulder and showing to them just come with me, I’ll get you out of this mess.

    Mike 50:54

    As quick questions like, next time this happens, how do you think you’ll manage it? What could you do different next time?

    Bill Gasiamis 51:09

    So how does motivation and teamwork come into your model of leadership? What is that about?

    Mike 51:16

    Okay there’s a very good example. First of all, you can have a carrot or a stick approach to creating motivation. Both of those are short term, if I give you lots of carrots, in other words, money to go and do a task. Ultimately, that task has no value other than the increased money I’ve given you. And you want more. Okay. I can get a big stick out saying if you don’t do it, well look for another job. Okay, so there’s the one or the other.

    Mike 51:54

    And the reason that they can’t work for me, as the boss me as the person trying to get that motivation with the group, in the long term, is it’s not personal. Personal comes from how do I give you? How do I create an environment where what you’ve wanted to achieve in your life, you’re being given the opportunity to do?

    Mike 52:22

    In other words, if I say to you, Bill, would you like to run this section of the of the office? Or would you like to be responsible for doing a particular thing? And give you the ability, the tools, the training, whatever it is, to do the job? Have I created an environment that becomes motivational for you to develop your own skills, your own way of doing something?

    Mike 52:55

    Do I need to tell you exactly how to do it? There will be sometimes I do from a safety and occupational health and safety viewpoint, yes. There might be in some processes a particular need to carry it out in a particular way. But apart from that, what I’m really saying is create the environment for motivation. Because it then becomes external, it becomes you doing it, it’s not me, forcing the issue.

    Bill Gasiamis 53:28

    Yeah, I like that. It’s about finding ways that are going to motivate people to move towards something that they want to achieve experience. And then layering all those things in and actually more importantly, realizing what’s missing from the group of things that are going to help motivation.

    Bill Gasiamis 53:51

    So for example, in my recovery, what would have been missing the most was the right surgeon. So initially, I began the process with having enough of an understanding of what I wanted in my recovery, what I wanted to know that the initial surgeon wasn’t the right surgeon, for me, the way that they were communicating the way that they were understanding my vision, the way that they were being empathetic to my situation didn’t suit me one bit, and I couldn’t have a conversation with them.

    Bill Gasiamis 54:35

    They were having conversations about me at the bed with other people and I wasn’t being involved in the conversation. So I felt out of the loop. So what I had to do was I had to find the right surgeon so that I could tick off another one of those things in my checklist for how I was going to go about my recovery and it had to start with the surgeon that was going to open my head.

    Bill Gasiamis 54:58

    Once I found that person then I was able to move forward to the next part of the decision, which was to actually decide to have the surgery. And it took me three years to decide to have the brain surgery. And that was three years of risk, where I had to risk the possibility of another bleed, and a more catastrophic version of a bleed, and therefore, more debilitating illnesses and all the stuff that goes along with a catastrophic bleed in the head.

    Bill Gasiamis 55:26

    So that part was how I motivated myself to actually get the surgery. constant communication, lots of empathy from that person really enabled me to become emotionally resilient, helped me achieve my vision and my values, and then kind of supported me to get to know myself in this situation in this recovery, so that I can trust in myself when I was leading myself out of this deep hole that I had suddenly found myself in.

    Leadership in recovery

    Bill Gasiamis 56:04

    And that brings me to the last part in your model is the trust in your leadership. And that is really interesting, because a lot of people will second guess, what they’re doing and how they’re going about their recovery, they’ll second guess, some aspects, some people will second guessed all aspects. And when they’re doing that, that really doesn’t support a really great outcome. So how do you build trust? Or does that actually emerge from putting all those other things in place?

    Mike 56:38

    Absolutely. And you gave a perfect example of trust in your leadership by you taking that three years. I’m not saying everyone should take three years. What I am saying is, if you go back to that first thing, where are we now? Where do I want to be? How do I get there?

    Mike 56:59

    Then the how do I get there is all of the stuff that we’ve been talking about know yourself, have enough understanding of your emotional capacity to deal with the challenges and the way that you can go through the fear and through what the walls that are coming up, the next thing is better and improve communication, so that you’re actually starting to work with people who you’re trusting.

    Mike 57:35

    Now, that’s actually leadership, because ultimately, the outcome you want is yours. In this particular case, it’s your own life and your own particular recovery from from stroke. But sometimes, I don’t want my bigger boss telling me how to then tell a whole pile of other people.

    Mike 57:56

    I have built an environment where my boss knows he can trust me to deliver what I’m going to do. So trust in my leadership is, Who am I going to delegate tasks to? How am I going to check that somebody has the skill, the tools, the understanding, the ability of what I wanted, you know, in your case, the things that you knew were a risk for you, of not having boxes ticked.

    Mike 58:30

    That was important. Now that ultimately in leadership terms is what’s called transformational leadership. The transactional stuff, how do you actually do a particular task can be easily done, somebody got a certificate tech, they should be able to ask some questions.

    Mike 58:50

    Yes, that doctor knew exactly what the next doctor or surgeon knew, tick tick. But what they didn’t have was an ability to communicate with you, that got you feeling that you were part of the equation, and were being understood and that that person was talking to you in a way that you felt, hey, it is all about a team thing. And I happen to be the, you know, very much a key of this whole thing.

    Mike 59:22

    So trust in your leadership is all of the other six things. Yeah, all of the other six characteristics. It’s knowing yourself, it’s having a vision for what you want to achieve, what’s the outcome I’m trying to achieve? It’s on the other side, it’s being able to communicate effectively.

    Mike 59:46

    It’s having the emotional intelligence to be able to have people sometimes come to you like like you were with a surgeon initially, and saying Hey, I’ve got some questions, and he doesn’t even understand why you should you’re just, you know, you’re not a surgeon, I really don’t have to explain it to you. Well, Whoa, hang on, I need to understand the process. I’ve got a brain and I need to let it be, you know, sorted out?

    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:19

    Yeah. Yep. I love that. I love that emerging trust that occurs when you put those other things in place. And that’s where I found myself, I did find myself really trusting my decision making, even though my head wasn’t really working properly, even I had cognitive issues, my decision making seemed to be working really well.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:41

    And I made the right decisions moving forward. And I never regretted any my decisions. They, it meant that I had to experience two more brain blades between the first one and then brain surgery. But it wasn’t the end of the world, the fact that I experienced those, and then had a lot of setbacks and a lot of fear and a lot of concern, and, obviously, the risk of dying from that, right.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:07

    But overall, we worked it out. Now, that model that we spoke about, has at the top of the model results and performance. And then in the middle of the model has another triangle that has trust, purpose, alignment, conversations and engagement. That model was the one that basically allowed you to write the book, The Emerging Leader.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:01:35

    And then you’ve added some stuff to the model that’s taken that model to the next level, which we’ll talk about now, which led to the book Effective Leaders. Let’s talk about now what takes the model to the next level? What are those four additional things that enhance that?

    The four attributes

    Mike 1:01:57

    Okay, the four things is, well, first of all, one of the things, I put it into workplace engagement that you just mentioned in that triangle of the first model. And trust is absolutely a key. But it got lost if you like in the model, it’s fine when you’re just talking about the seven characteristics.

    Mike 1:02:22

    But if you look at it for effective leadership as a total goal, then it has to be the foundation. So first of all, we have to have trust, and trustworthiness between what I do and how, you know, I walk my talk, what I say I’m going to do I mean, if you think about what do I mean by trustworthiness, dependability, reliability, lack of self interest, consistency, they’re the things that are fundamental to trustworthiness.

    Mike 1:03:05

    I’m not manipulative, I don’t work in my communication, to get you to do something that really isn’t in your best interest. Okay, so there’s the foundation. Now on top of that, mainly because of I ended up with a lot of people coming back to me and saying, I really liked that first book, Mike, I really liked the book.

    Mike 1:03:33

    But you didn’t tell enough stories. Now, I told quite a few stories in the first book. But writing a book when you’ve never done one. One is quite a challenge. And two, I had a lot of things I wanted to get out as a guide. There’s four guidelines in the book, the first one.

    Mike 1:03:55

    And so there were things that I could have talked about, but it probably wasn’t the right time. Whereas people coming back to me and saying, oh, you know, have you ever experienced, you know, such and such? And I’d say yes, well, it really took courage to be able to do that.

    Mike 1:04:17

    And so I started thinking about to be able to actually do the seven things that are characteristics of good leaders actually took respect. By respect, what do I mean about respect? I’ve analyzed it in the second book The Effective Leaders by saying it covers diversity. It covers gender equality, gender equity, gender inclusion.

    Mike 1:04:54

    Why should a man get paid more than a woman to do exactly the same job with the same qualifications, there’s no reason other than equality. Why are some jobs which are virtually considered female jobs paid at a lower rate than really their value is. The other thing with respect is culture.

    Mike 1:05:27

    There’s lots of cultures in in Australia. And a lot of us don’t understand the culture. In fact, we get frightened about the fact that somebody wants to pray in the middle of the day, and somebody else wants to not work on a Saturday or whatever it might be. Everyone has the right in Australia, or should have the right to look at their culture.

    Mike 1:05:56

    The one thing that I can’t understand as a migrant from Scotland, to Australia, and I came out here in the late 70s was, I saw the places basically, a fair go until I’d been here for about a year and started realizing that there was some deep down division.

    Mike 1:06:21

    It was okay, if you had been an Irishman, it wasn’t quite the same if you were an Italian, it wasn’t quite the same. If you’re a slob or whatever. You play soccer rather than football, there must be something slightly wrong without understanding the different cultures.

    Mike 1:06:42

    Now, my brother’s actually married to an Aboriginal lady, who when I first came out here, I really didn’t understand what she was so passionate about. She’s now an elder in Tasmania. And so I decided in the book, to go to an Aboriginal elder and say, What would you if I gave you the space to put an article together.

    Mike 1:07:12

    What would you want politicians to actually understand about Aboriginal needs? Aboriginal culture, Aboriginal empowerment, rather than what is happening in Australia regarding that now, without becoming political, all I’m really flagging is there are questions that good leaders effective leaders need to understand that their vision of let’s say, an Anglo Saxon way of doing things is not necessarily the right way for other people in Australia, the color of your skin shouldn’t determine it.

    Mike 1:07:53

    The next real key takeaway of these four attributes, as I call them, is courage. It takes courage sometimes to say to a boss above you, I’m not happy with that, that does not align with what the company’s values are. I can’t ask the team to do that, because we haven’t got the right resources.

    Mike 1:08:18

    And I’d be putting the people at risk. I’m happy to ask the team to work for a certain length of time doing overtime, if they’ll do that. But to do it long term, is detrimental to their health, their well being and their safety overall. So I stand up for what I believe is right, what I’m responsible for, it takes courage.

    Mike 1:08:45

    It takes courage sometimes to bring somebody and empower them to do something and step away and give them the opportunity and not micromanage them. That takes courage. The next key attribute is integrity. Being transparent, being trustworthy, being aligned with what you say you will do.

    Mike 1:09:16

    And the final one is agility. Now, agility is a buzzword in today’s world, but what I mean by that is the ability to talk up and talk down and talk across in the language that people can understand. And it’s called style flexing so that you can communicate in a way that lets people understand what you want, where you’re coming from and so on. In leadership terms, that’s absolutely critical.

    Mike 1:09:54

    In emotional terms, emotional agility is having that ability. We talked about it earlier. On that ability to understand where you are in a bigger group of people. And finally, in terms of the agility in terms of the overall effective leadership, what parts of what we’re doing relative to the characteristics and so on?

    Mike 1:10:22

    Do I need to be agile in at times? So what I’m saying is, life is going to ball you up from time to time the difficult challenge of having to lay somebody off having a difficult conversation when things aren’t working? Do you throw that to somebody else, throw it to the HR department, or whatever?

    Mike 1:10:48

    Or do you have the courage and the leadership agility to be able to have those difficult conversations, and either rectify what the problem is, or communicate in a way that doesn’t go and throw the blame upwards or sideways, that actually the person moves on but realize is, you’ve done your best to make sure that they understand you’ve got their back, you’ve got put in place some support, as they move on to a different job, or whatever it might be.

    Cultural diversity

    Bill Gasiamis 1:11:24

    Yeah, I feel like this second aspect of our conversation has shifted quite a lot from where I tried to merge your model of the Emerging Leader into self leadership and my recovery to now I think, I feel like this really fits really well with people who are supporting others to recover, especially the aspect of the diverse nature of the Australian community.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:11:49

    And when you’re trying to apply rehabilitation tools and services to, you know, this such diverse society, that if you have a model that’s not flexible, that’s not agile, that is unable to respect everybody’s differences, and is unable to be used by the entire community that it’s really going to fall over, it’s not really going to support the majority of stroke survivors to overcome the deficits and the challenges that they’ve experienced because of the stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:12:26

    And I feel like it’s a beautiful model for people who are leading in those roles of supporting occupational therapists and personal therapists to understand the role that they play in having an open mind, and having a methodology that actually takes all these things into consideration.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:12:56

    And then when it doesn’t, and when you’ve spent some time implementing something that doesn’t work, or isn’t as inclusive, having the courage to recognize that, and then make changes where it’s appropriate. And even if that means it’s gonna take a lot of work and a lot of effort, what I can do is, we can still start that process by just acknowledging the fact that, hey, maybe the model is awesome for supporting the majority of the Christian population.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:13:31

    But there’s a portion of the Muslim population, who wouldn’t be comfortable with male personal therapists, for example, rehabilitating female stroke survivors. And maybe we need to allow for that and find a way to make that possible, by giving them a space within the facility that allows them a two be rehabilitated in privacy that serves their religious views.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:14:02

    Or their cultural views, and also allows them to not have to worry about this additional layer of I’m not going to go down this path of recovery because I can’t do it under your current model, and therefore that minimizes the possibility for them to have the most resources thrown at them for recovery.

    Mike 1:14:37

    Yeah, absolutely right. And in my view, there are going to be times when the courage side of that is absolutely critical. The person who is coming up with the plan has the courage to be able to say to the hospital, or to the group that they’re in, these are issues that need to be taken into account.

    Mike 1:15:07

    And when you know if you think about, I’m thinking of it from a leadership viewpoint, but minority groups, at times feel almost privileged that they’ve got a role job. And, and are almost at times prepared to give up what what another person would see as a given, it’s their right, the other person is I’m not going to go and rock the boat, because what might happen is, I might lose my job in the next round of looking at things or when it’s appropriate for the boss to get rid of some people.

    Mike 1:15:51

    I might be the first to go, because I challenged something, so what you’re looking at is in my view, the model for the second book, the end of the first part of the whole of the second book, is a lot of effective leaders who were moved by my first book, or were people who I knew from managing directors, right down to guys that are supervisors on inquiries.

    Mike 1:16:27

    So I’ve got somebody like Paul Constantino, who is now the chairman of or was the chairman of the quest service department group. But he founded that company, way back in the late 70s. And wrote as written a terrific article for my book on vision and values, and spells it out really well. So the first part of the book was lots of stories that reinforce the value of those seven core characteristics.

    Mike 1:17:03

    And then what I’ve done for the four attributes that underpin that model, is I got somebody to write somebody who was a real subject matter expert, on agility, somebody that would write on integrity, I got two people to write on integrity, I got people to write on courage.

    Mike 1:17:31

    And I got people that would write from an Aboriginal viewpoint on diversity, relative to culture. It’s so important Bill, in my view, and I think in this last 12 months, we’ve seen politicians struggling with open communication to Australians, about what’s important to us, what’s important to us as a community, and they’re still playing the politics, party wise, or whatever, of what they want to achieve, for reasons that aren’t necessarily what’s important to the community. And we’ve really got to get back to that.

    Intro 1:18:18

    I think the leadership has let us down a lot in every level of government, and regardless of which side of politics you vote for, and or don’t vote for. And it’s happened globally. And we seem to be following a similar path to what the United States is following by the amount of division that’s occurring.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:18:40

    And I think that everyone that I speak to, will be and again, regardless of which side of politics they’re on, feel really comfortable with agreeing the fact that division has never been more so than it is now. And what we need is less division, we need to find where our similarities are, and come together.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:19:04

    And some of the challenges that I think I’ve overcome by interviewing now 170 odd people around this podcast about stroke recovery is that each and every one of them wants the exact same outcome for their life, they want to live comfortably, safely, you know, fed with a roof over their head dry, with as little ill health as possible.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:19:38

    And they all had a stroke. But the reason for it was all different. And each and every one of those people comes from a different background, a different part of the world, a different upbringing. But really, it’s not a lot that we want that’s different. Everyone wants exactly the same things.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:20:01

    So knowing where were the same should be the focus. And yet what we’re doing is focusing on where, where we’re different. And I think that leadership is lacking for self, because our leaders leading us at state or country level, are really not true leaders, they seem to me to be pseudo leaders, they’re in a role that should be occupied by a leader.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:20:38

    But they don’t actually have all the attributes necessary to make, in my opinion, a true leader, a real leader, and therefore, they are the unfortunate example of how we need to lead people, but then also how we lead ourselves. And we’re getting caught up in this whole situation, that seems to be solving problems on the short term basis, but isn’t solving problems on a long term basis.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:21:11

    And what we’re doing is putting out fires, and not realizing that every fire we’re putting out we’re lighting two more, and we’re doing that to our personal lives, we’re doing that to our work lives, we’re doing that to our business lives. And we’re doing that, whilst trying to recover from the complexity of a stroke.

    Losing trust

    Mike 1:21:36

    If you think about the other, take the model, the whole effective leaders model, the foundation being trust, and what you’ve just talked about, is we’ve lost trust. We actually don’t trust politicians, we don’t trust a lot of people that write stuff on all the papers, newspapers, and so on. That’s the real big challenge we’ve got, once we’ve actually done that the politics of how we have communication comes from leaders that are able to accept there can be several views about a particular subject.

    Mike 1:22:19

    But it’s worthy of having open discussion about it. And in the case that you were talking about you taking three years to decide what you wanted to sign off on, because it was your life. And you felt that you needed to feel aligned with the person that was going to put your life at risk, really understand that they had your not just your best interest.

    Mike 1:22:49

    Because probably the first guy had your best interest, but he didn’t know how to end up creating that bond with you. I think that’s what I challenge. That’s why I’m writing these three books as a trilogy, and then I will peacefully retire and just be me and ride my motorbike.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:23:10

    That’s perfect man, I am definitely comes down to trust at the end. That’s what I think. I’ve realized just now when we spoke about that is I did not trust that previous surgeon with that approach. I did trust the actual surgeon who did open my head, you know, Professor, Kate Drummond.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:23:31

    And she just made it all about me. She was the expertise in the process. And she had the team that was going to deliver the outcome for me, which was to remove this faulty blood vessel so that it doesn’t bleed again. And they were going to take all measures to minimize risk to my outcome.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:23:56

    And therefore, I just felt like, I could completely trust her and I literally put my life in her hands. And I didn’t feel like I can do that. With too many people when you’re going through this. And to be able to do that means that I go into that surgery feeling a lot calmer, a lot more relaxed.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:24:20

    And I create a better version of myself so that they are dealing with a patient that’s more likely to have a good outcome. And then we we get a better result overall. So I love how we’ve merged your business books of in on the topic of leadership into recovery and stroke recovery, and then also into the rehabilitation side of it with the second book.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:24:47

    Because I thought it was going to be a challenge but in fact, it’s quite easy to merge. The two topics the people that are listening to this have been led by people are leading themselves have been In misled by people and have misled themselves. So hopefully they get a lot out of that they’ve worked in corporations, they’ve worked for bosses.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:25:08

    And they’ve been bosses. So hopefully, they see that these things that they’ve learned in the past are applicable to their recovery. And that they can continue investigating how they can apply corporate leadership, effective corporate leadership, into an effective recovery after something as serious as a stroke.

    Mike 1:25:32

    Now, can I say one other thing, I’m in the sales mode at the moment, but I’ve got a special on up to as a launch for the book. But it’s going to run until the 19th of December. So if you like a Christmas special, you can buy both the books. And if you’re in the Melbourne area, I will have them delivered for you, it gives me an opportunity to jump on the back of the motorbike and take them out around Melbourne.

    Mike 1:26:06

    I will deliver totally the two book deal free of charge for delivery. And I’ve got the two books going out for $61. And it was then $9 to deliver them but $60. And I will deliver them free. Or you can go on to Amazon and buy the Kindle version if you want to read it. And I think that’s $10

    Bill Gasiamis 1:26:40

    Yep, fabulous. And if you’re listening from overseas, people can go to strategically.com.au. And they can head to the page where the books are located. And they can click the Buy Now button. And they can get a bit of an intro into Mike and his work. And they can pick up both books there and have them delivered as well. Is that right, Mike?

    Mike 1:27:06

    That’s exactly right. Now the other thing is, well, Bill, for anyone that’s listening to this and they go into that website, you’ve just given them strategically.com.au and go into my books. There’s lots of downloadable, free downloadables there are videos, there are people who’ve written articles and allowed me to use them. And all of the references that are made in the first book are there for you to have, there’s no cost to any of that. They’re totally free. downloadables.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:27:46

    Fantastic Mike. Thanks so much for being on the podcast.

    Mike 1:27:49

    No, I loved it. Thanks very much indeed, Bill. And good luck to you and your continuing health recovery.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:27:57

    Well, thanks for listening. Do you ever wish there was just one place to go for resources, advice and support in your stroke recovery? Whether you’ve been navigating your journey for weeks, months or years, I know firsthand how difficult it can be to get the answers you need.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:28:12

    This road is both physically and mentally challenging. From reclaiming your independence to getting back to work to rebuilding your confidence in more. You symptoms don’t follow a rulebook and as soon as you leave the hospital you no longer have medical professionals on tap. I know for me it felt as if I was teaching myself a new language from scratch with no native speaker inside.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:28:32

    If this sounds like you, I’m here to tell you that you’re not alone and there is a better way to navigate your recovery and build a fulfilling life that you love. I’ve created an inclusive, supportive and accessible membership community called recovery after stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:28:46

    This all in one support and Resource Program is designed to help you take your health into your own hands. This is your guidebook through every step in your journey from reducing fatigue, to strengthening your brain health to overcoming anxiety and more. To find out more and to join the community just head to recoveryafterstroke.com Thanks for listening and see you on the next episode.

    Intro 1:29:07

    Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast are the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed.

    Intro 1:29:24

    All content on this website at any linked blog, podcast or video material controlled this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis the content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing.

    Intro 1:29:41

    It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice. The information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances or health objectives did not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or is this substitute for the advice of a health professional.

    Intro 1:30:02

    Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional, your doctor or your rehabilitation program based on our content. If you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional if you are experiencing a health emergency or think you might, be call triple zero if in Australia or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance.

    Intro 1:30:24

    Or go to the nearest hospital emergency department medical information changes constantly. While we aim to provide current quality information in our content. We do not provide any guarantees and assume no legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, currency or completeness of the content. If you choose to rely on any information within our content, you do so solely at your own risk. We are careful with links we provide however third party links from our website are followed at your own risk and we are not responsible for any information you find there.

    The post Applying The Concept Of Corporate Leadership To Stroke Recovery – Mike Cameron appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

    1 hr 31 min
  • Spontaneous Vertebral Artery Dissection – Steve Molter

    Steve Molter was 33 when he experienced a stroke as a result of a spontaneous vertebral artery dissection. Since then he has overcome much and considers the stroke one of the best things that has ever happened.

    Instagram

    02:13 Introduction

    03:24 Thanksgiving
    13:47 Stroke At 33
    18:32 Spontaneous Vertebral Artery Dissection
    24:19 Bill’s Recovery
    35:39 Facing Mortality
    42:35 Competitive Mindset In Stroke Recovery
    50:51 Preparing Yourself
    1:00:41 Team Management
    1:11:19 Dealing With The Deficits
    1:25:23 Seeking Out Support
    1:35:37 Finding Joy In Passion

    Steve 0:00

    We have to say, Hey, it’s okay to fail. It’s okay to make mistakes. It’s okay if I don’t have all the answers. And it’s okay to rely on people who feel like they might be unreliable. But maybe they’re not because we have to give them a chance.

    Steve 0:12

    And I can sense for you that there was a lot of pressure on you at the time. And it sounds like there’s a lot of growth happening for everyone as well. But, you know, I didn’t have that experience.

    Steve 0:25

    But I did have the pressure on myself to be well, and I had no control of that, really, you know, I did of course, I do eat well, and not overexert myself on these types of things. But at the end of the day, I still hold myself to a very high standard, and I still have to cut yourself some slack. You know, a lot of the time and I don’t do that. And that’s not fair.

    Intro 0:54

    This is the recovery after stroke podcast, with Bill Gasiamis, helping you navigate recovery after stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:07

    Hello, and welcome to recovery after stroke a podcast full of answers, advice and practical tools for stroke survivors to help you take back your life after a stroke and build a stronger future.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:18

    I’m your host three-time stroke survivor Bill Gasiamis. After my own life was turned upside down and I went from being an active father to be stuck in hospital. I knew if I wanted to get back to the life I loved the for my recovery was up to me.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:31

    After years of researching and discovering I learned how to heal my brain and rebuild a healthier and happier life than I ever dreamed possible. And now I’ve made it my mission to empower other stroke survivors like you to recover faster, achieve your goals and take back the freedom you deserve.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:48

    If you enjoy this episode and want more resources, accessible training and hands on support, check out my recovery after stroke membership community created especially for stroke survivors and caregivers.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:59

    This is your clear pathway to transform your symptoms, reduce your anxiety and navigate your journey to recovery with confidence, head to recoveryafterstroke.com To find out more after this episode.

    Introduction – Steve Molter


    Bill Gasiamis 2:13
    But for now, let’s dive right into today’s show. This is episode 171. And my guest today is Steve Molter, who experienced a spontaneous vertebral artery dissection, aged 33 which caused a stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:30

    This episode was recorded the day after Thanksgiving. And it begins with giving thanks for some of the things important to us. Steve Molter, welcome to the podcast.

    Steve 2:41

    Thank you, Bill. It’s awesome to be here. I’m grateful for the time, It’s been a few months since I think we started corresponding. And finally, I felt like oh my gosh, I have time. And here we go. So it’s the day after Thanksgiving here. But it’s a very chill day. So I’m glad we got to chat.

    Bill Gasiamis 2:59

    Happy Thanksgiving for you. And all the American, Canadian people who have Thanksgiving. Tell me about that. Actually, what’s Thanksgiving about because people in Australia don’t have that. Because it had something to do with a specific event in America. And as a result, we don’t know what that is.

    Thanksgiving


    Steve 3:24
    Yeah. I mean, you know, if I can go back to my grade school days, remembering what I was told, it was about the Native Americans, spending time with the settlers, the early settlers and sharing a meal and spending time together in community.

    Steve 3:44

    So I treat Thanksgiving a little differently than I think the typical family would maybe I’m not a big fan of holidays, I don’t know why I just like don’t really get the spirit, you know what I mean?

    Steve 3:56

    But for Thanksgiving, when I was single I would just write music by myself, I would just like, shut myself away, write music all day. And just do that. That was like my way to celebrate.

    Steve 4:07

    And now I’m married and we kind of just chill. We actually just got back from a trip yesterday. So on Thanksgiving, we flew back and just hung out played with our cats just relaxed, had some food, a couple drinks, you know, chill out.

    Steve 4:19

    So for me, it’s like providing that gratitude space to my wife especially, but to the people that I care about, you know, just want to show thanks. So I guess it does come full circle. You know.

    Bill Gasiamis 4:31

    I love that idea of just doing nothing and just chilling out for once. You know, one time a year. I mean, it’s such a great thing. And I think I share your sentiments about the holidays is because people make such a fuss about one day and it takes so long to get there. And I go over and over and over and it’s like, by the end of it. It’s I think everyone is missing actually what the day is about.

    Steve 4:59

    It becomes so stressful, right?

    Bill Gasiamis 5:00

    Yeah.

    Steve 5:01

    You know planning and coordinating and cooking and the whole thing. And it’s like so much work.

    Bill Gasiamis 5:07

    And I’m happy to have people over. But for me, in my mind, it’s like, on this day, come over for lunch, and stay as long as you want. And that’s it. And if you can make it, come. And if you can’t don’t, if you can bring something, bring it, if you can’t don’t.

    Bill Gasiamis 5:27

    That’s what I’d like to do. But that, of course, that doesn’t go down well, in my world, we have to fuss about it and make a whole song and dance about it, and then becomes about all the other things.

    Bill Gasiamis 5:41

    And it’s not about having other people over, that you want to have over or you want to see. And then it’s like, what time can we come over, because we’ve got to go over there. And then we’re gonna go there. And it’s like, oh, my gosh, guys, I’m just gonna be here. And I’m telling you, if you can just come over. That’s it.

    Steve 6:01

    That’s the way to go. So I live in Los Angeles, California, right now, I grew up outside of Boston, Massachusetts. So it’s like the other side of the country. And when I was living in LA for a very long time, and I go back to visit, and it was so challenging to see everyone because of scheduling.

    Steve 6:18

    And so I would just be like, Alright, I’m going to be at this place, from this period of time to this period of time, come hang out, if you can’t, I would love to see you. And if you can’t, that’s okay. We’ll see you next time I will talk or whatever. And I feel you deeply with that.

    Bill Gasiamis 6:32

    A friend of mine is moving from Melbourne, Australia, to Queensland, Australia. And she’s somebody that we just interact with on Facebook, because we grew up together, we went to school together, but we haven’t really hung out for 25 years or so.

    Bill Gasiamis 6:46

    And there’s a group of people on these Facebook groups, you know, similar from a similar place in our world, in our mutual world. And she basically said, Look, we’re going to be moving to Queensland, and I’d love to catch up with everybody.

    Bill Gasiamis 7:01

    But she made the one fatal mistake. She didn’t say, on this day, I’m going to be in this bar for this many hours. If you’re in Melbourne, and you can come I’d love to see you. So what should this she put it out there to about 10 people? What are you guy’s availability?

    Bill Gasiamis 7:17

    How about this bar? And how about that bar? And I just switched off all the notifications. I’m going to go back in, I’m going to check the date. If it works I’m going to go if I can’t, I’m just going to send her a message and say all the best and leave it at that. See you on Facebook.

    Steve 7:36

    Exactly. It’s the way to go. Absolutely.

    Bill Gasiamis 7:39

    Before we get stuck right into the episode, I want to actually talk about Thanksgiving, it falls on the anniversary of the day that I had brain surgery.

    Steve 7:50

    Oh, wow.

    Bill Gasiamis 7:51

    So I didn’t realize that until just this year. How about that. That’s an awesome way for me to remember, the anniversary of my brain surgery was also the day of the Patron Saint Catherine.

    Bill Gasiamis 8:05

    So in Greece, it’s a big deal this St. Catherine’s Day or any patron saint day. So you know, everybody who is a Catherine celebrates that name day, I suppose. And I’m thankful for a really good outcome after surgery. I’m thankful for the stroke. I’m thankful for all the roadblocks.

    Bill Gasiamis 8:29

    I’m thankful for the podcast and I’m thankful for the people I’ve met through that thankful for the people that have asked for help. Who have come forward to say, you know, can we get coaching I’m thankful for that entire nine-year journey since February 2012, which is when my journey started.

    Bill Gasiamis 8:49

    And I’m thankful for the shitty shit that goes with it. Because it just reminds me that I’m alive, you know, and I’m ready to solve more problems, all I got to do is continue to solve problems. And some of those solutions aren’t the best, but they’re solutions you know, and I get, I get to move forward and I get to kind of put them behind me.

    Bill Gasiamis 9:15

    So that’s what I’m thankful for. And then today, finally, I’m thankful for you being here right now in California and I’m here in Australia in Melbourne and we’re sharing this amazing technology that brings us together from so far away I mean that’s next level.

    Steve 9:34

    it’s It’s unreal. I really appreciate you calling out the gratitude for the strokes themselves, you know, we’ll get into the whole thing but when I meet people and I tell them I’m a stroke survivor and I go, Oh my gosh, I’m so sorry.

    Steve 9:47

    I’m like no it was like, probably one of the best things that’s ever happened to me outside of like meeting my wife, you know, one of the best things that’s ever happened because it showed me who I was, you know, and I was able to learn what I was made of when I was in the point when I was like, oh, like, This doesn’t look good.

    Steve 10:06

    But I didn’t know. And you know, there’s like a sense of I don’t want to use the word humor. But there was definitely a sense, I brought a sense of humor into the hospital when I was in there, you know what I mean? And I was grateful that the nurses and the doctors were able to share that space with me that they weren’t so serious, but it felt serious, right.

    Steve 10:31

    But we were able to kind of go into a space of joy, even though it was scary times. So I’m grateful that you bring that up, you know, we shared our initial strokes in the same year. So mine was September 11, 2012. That’s when I had my first stroke. Yeah, exactly.

    Steve 10:51

    And it’s funny because that day will always be shared, right. And that’s fine. But I celebrate on mine, I have like a party, you know, generally just have some friends over and we just celebrate my survival. And it’s great. We just do nothing special. But it’s a special day.

    Steve 11:15

    But I’ve I share that with such a, like you said infamous day, it’s kind of tough to say go out and celebrate loudly. So I just kind of do it on the subtle. But I’m grateful that I have the opportunity to celebrate do that I have the opportunity to do something positive on that day, which is so brutal, you know, for so many.

    Bill Gasiamis 11:35

    Yeah, it’s your day too right? So you’re entitled to celebrate it however you want. And you’re not being insensitive. Actually, what, what I love about a lot of non-greek people is that they celebrate life on the day of somebody’s funeral, or death or whatever they actually celebrate the life of the person.

    Bill Gasiamis 11:57

    And in Greek culture where my parents come from, there isn’t that you actually mourn. And you don’t really celebrate the life you don’t speak about where their person came from, what they achieved what they did, you just get together and you’re being miserable about it.

    Bill Gasiamis 12:12

    And it’s kind of there’s a use for that as well. But I can see the other side of celebrating life, right. And just because this historical event happened, doesn’t mean that you can’t celebrate your recovery. I mean, if I was involved in something like September 11, and I survived that, I would be celebrating the heck out of that going, Man, I made it out of there, you know?

    Steve 12:39

    Absolutely. Yeah, that’s the morning. There’s a there’s a grief period, right? There’s absolutely a period that you have to explore your grief, allow your grief to come in. But you can’t live there, you can’t stay there, you have to move on, you have to grow, you have to change, you have to flourish, right? That’s what life is.

    Steve 13:02

    It’s for people to flourish for people to shine. And you know, I was alone at the period when mine kind of took place. And so like, I didn’t have a wife, I didn’t have a girlfriend, I had just one family member in LA.

    Steve 13:19

    But I still felt protected. And I still felt safe. Even though I was like, Well, I’m not sure if this is gonna, you know, I don’t know what’s gonna happen. But I still felt safe. And that’s the thing I celebrate, right, that response, that connection that I have with people that I’ve made since then and had made prior right. So yeah, it’s an interesting process of grieving. And then celebrating when you are no longer grieving, right?

    Stroke At 33


    Bill Gasiamis 13:47
    How old were you?

    Steve 13:50

    My gosh, now I’m gonna tape myself 33. I was 33 at the time. So I was like young ish. And what I learned at the time was that it’s actually not that young, like, statistically, it’s not terribly unlikely for someone in their 30s to have a stroke. It’s not the majority.

    Steve 14:12

    But I was 33. And I had just gotten back from a wedding. One of my best friends got married, and I was his best man. And I was on the boat. It was in Catalina, which is an island off the coast of California. And we were on a boat the two nights before the wedding.

    Steve 14:29

    And we were just, chill, just chill. Like having a couple of drinks. Having a couple laughs listening to music hanging out. And all of a sudden I just got like a really bad headache. I felt like nauseous. I was like I’m just gonna stop drinking. I’m gonna chill out sit on the side of the you know, just sit down.

    Steve 14:48

    And I got back to the hotel not the hotel we were saying in a friend’s house, got back and I just took ibuprofen to like, maybe it was a headache or migraine, I don’t know. Took ibuprofen and it doubled the pain a little bit.

    Steve 15:00

    But it was this deep, sort of like ache in my neck in the back of my neck just below the base of my skull on the right side. And that just began the whole process of like, you know, that was the beginning.

    Steve 15:15

    And then five days later, there’s so much detail and I’m not going to go into every detail. But you know, the wedding went off of that hits, I gave my speech, it was awesome. We danced, we laughed, we had fun, everybody had a great time. And then we got back to California to LA.

    Steve 15:30

    And it was like, five days later, it was September 11. And I went to work, and I just started getting like blurry splotches in my vision, just like, I was like, what was that? So I went to my eye doctor, he’s like, I don’t see anything.

    Steve 15:44

    You know, I can’t tell. He’s like, I just don’t see anything. And then I went to lunch, and I was working on a speech, I was actually another best man. Like the following month, I was gonna be another best man for another one of my best friends.

    Steve 15:58

    And I was working on the speech at lunch. And I worked in Santa Monica at the time, and just like overlooking the ocean of beautiful, and I was walking back to my office. And I remember seeing a tree like a palm tree.

    Steve 16:12

    And the palm tree was really tall, and they were cutting it down. And so the way you cut a palm tree down, is you take off the head first. So there’s like so they go up and they like be headed. And so I thought that was funny. And I was like, Oh, that’s funny. They’re like be heading the tree. And so I took a picture.

    Steve 16:28

    And the second I took that picture, my vision went to like a pinhole, and I got nauseous and headache and you know, the pain hit. And I didn’t lose consciousness, but I was able to find myself to a bench and ultimately get help and get to the hospital.

    Steve 16:46

    It was scary. You know, I mean, you know, it’s scary to be like, I thought it was a migraine. You know, I had no idea. And I’m like, trained, I was trained at the time to recognize stroke. But good luck on doing it on yourself, you know, because I was just like, there’s no way it can be anything that bad. You just don’t believe it. I didn’t believe it at the time. You know?

    Bill Gasiamis 17:07

    What kind of training did you have?

    Steve 17:10

    So it was like, you know, I honestly don’t remember what it’s called. But it’s like emergency training. So recognizing stroke, how to deal with like people who have heart attacks, strokes, CPR, that type of training, first aid. That’s the word I should know by now.

    Steve 17:28

    So basically just kind of standard first aid training that a few people at the office got trained on every year, and I was one of those folks at the time. So, but I was completely subjective. You know, I was like, I don’t know it must be a migraine, because this is what migraines feel like as what people told me.

    Bill Gasiamis 17:47

    You know, so that five days prior to that, did you have other signs and symptoms as well? Or was that initial thing that you experienced and then you decided to put the drink down? Was that it? Did it go away? Or did it kind of resonate?

    Steve 18:04

    It kind of stayed? And so it’s a good question, because at first it was just like a dull ache. And so the ibuprofen kinda helped, but not really, I recognize now that it wasn’t helping at all. But you know, the clot basically, I’ll tell you exactly what happened in a moment, but, the symptoms that I were feeling was just like ache pain, and like I wanted to crack my neck, I wanted to like stretch it, you know, I just, felt like tight, and I just wanted to stretch it.

    Steve Molter Had A Spontaneous Vertebral Artery Dissection

    Steve 18:32

    And when I got home and it was the morning of the night before the 11th. So the night of September 10. I went to sleep and I again took ibuprofen I tried to like sleep on my head so that it was stretched because I thought it was like a muscle thing. It was not.

    Steve 18:39

    And then I woke up the next day and you know, ultimately got to the hospital. When I got to the hospital, they didn’t know what it was they gave me meds for migraine because I was like, I think it’s migraine. They didn’t know they couldn’t see anything wrong.

    Steve 19:02

    I looked fine. I didn’t have the, you know, loss of muscle. You know, it was just I looked normal. I can do all the things I could see when they did the visual test. I could see through my pinhole perfectly. So like my, you know, it was just like, they didn’t know what was going on. And it took until the next day when I had another stroke.

    Steve 19:23

    So it was the same injury but another, you know, stroke took place. And then they were able to pinpoint that was brutal by the way because they couldn’t give me meds either because they were like you have to tell us how it feels and I was like, okay, it hurts really bad.

    Steve 19:39

    But, ultimately, the neurologist who helped me found the blood had already started to like reroute itself around the injury. So my brain was already like, oh, like fix fix. And it was this like tiny tear that happened called spontaneous vertebral artery dissection.

    Steve 20:01

    And so the dissection is when there’s the tear in the artery, no idea how it happened and the artery, like tore and clotted, and then that clot prevented the blood going to my brain. And then, you know, two parts of my brain were like, see ya.

    Steve 20:17

    And it was challenging. So the the symptoms were strange, from my experience, from my understanding of what symptoms were for stroke. And that was challenging for me.

    Bill Gasiamis 20:29

    Yeah, it’s challenging because oh, man, like everything about it is challenge, because you’ve never experienced it, you know, you’re 33, you’ve probably been very healthy until then. And you don’t have a reference point, sort of where to begin from, how do I tackle this? How do I manage it? And then you’re hoping that somebody else is going to tell you these things and solve those problems for you.

    Bill Gasiamis 20:54

    And then they just say to you, look, there’s this thing, we found that we fixed it, and go home, and you should be right. And there’s still not that after sale service, you know, there’s no after sale service, you know, we fixed that. And now what do I do with this thing?

    Steve 21:17

    You know, and I understand from what I know of your story, that was extremely challenging, and I’m curious to learn more about that from you. Because for me, it was like, I had my first stroke on the 11th.

    Steve 21:28

    The second one I had on a 12. And it was literally like that kind of showed them okay, like, now we kind of know, we thought we’re gonna have to do brain surgery, but we’re not going to. That was a big that was nice to have that because that was scary. But like, after I had that second stroke, I was very much like, am I gonna die?

    Intro 21:48

    If you’ve had a stroke, and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind, like, how long will it take to recover? Will I actually recover? What things should I avoid? In case I make matters worse, and doctors will explain things that obviously, you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask.

    Intro 22:13

    If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying, and head to recovery after stroke.com where you can download a guide that will help you it’s called a seven questions to ask your doctor about your stroke.

    Intro 22:32

    These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition, they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery. Head to the website now, recoveryafterstroke.com and download the guide. It’s free.

    Steve 22:51

    Like I don’t know, I really don’t know. And the doctor couldn’t guarantee that I wouldn’t. Because he was still figuring it out. And so there’s that like, brief moment. And thankfully, my moment was brief, when I was faced with this mortality of like, okay, this is it.

    Steve 23:07

    And I legitimately thought this is it. It’s, I might die tonight. And that’s a scary thought. And I went through the whole process of like, you know, my brother is married, he had two kids, his his daughter, my niece who had just been born like two months prior, and like, I would never have met her, my nephew would probably never remember me.

    Steve 23:32

    You know, except for pictures and stories. And, you know, it’s a challenging phase to be alone in that and I was just in the hospital bed by myself thinking this is it. So I like wrote notes to my family. And it was like, you know, it was a it was it was tough. But it was brief.

    Steve 23:50

    And when the doctor came in and told me, here’s the deal, here’s what we’re doing, we’re gonna fix it, and we’re not gonna have to do surgery. I think everything’s gonna be okay. Man, what a relief. You know, but I’m curious. Like, so for me. After that I got sent home.

    Steve 24:03

    And it was scary. And honestly, the scariest part of this whole process was the first night I was alone and not in the ICU. Because I was like, trying to sleep but I’m like, if anything goes wrong, I’m dead. 100% But in the ICU, they’re like on you, you know?

    Bill’s Recovery Story

    Steve 24:19

    And so I’m curious for you like what happened when you got out? You know, like you had the setback, which was pretty severe. I would love to hear about what your thought process was during that. You know okay, good luck, you know, send you off.

    Bill Gasiamis 24:36

    I’m gonna use the word oblivious because I wasn’t oblivious. I acted oblivious, and it’s sort of kind of helped. So the first time wasn’t actually the first time I think now right so I reckon back in September of 2010. I had a massive migraine, three days out of action. Couldn’t do anything for three days.

    Bill Gasiamis 25:01

    And you know how you guys have the NFL Super Bowl, what we have here the AFL Grand Final, it was the week of the grand final. And I went to the grand final and my team was in the grand final. So I spent the entire time you know yelling and screaming and urging them on and hoping that all the rest of the team broke their legs so that we would win right? of the other team right?

    Steve 25:27

    Classic sports, man.

    Bill Gasiamis 25:31

    But that was a Saturday and then by the Wednesday of the following week are still really bad. And we drew that game actually ended in a no result. And back then what they used to do was they would replay it the following week.

    Bill Gasiamis 25:47

    Now 100,000 People get to go there. And I had tickets to that event because of my brother, he got me tickets to that event. And then he also said to me, I’ve got a ticket for next week. And I’m like, oh my god, like, I can’t believe it.

    Bill Gasiamis 26:06

    But I’m not gonna go Harry, I’m not gonna go. He said why not? I said because of this headache man, and I’m afraid that it’s gonna get worse, I’m gonna make it worse. I don’t know why it happened. But like, it’s really bothering me.

    Bill Gasiamis 26:18

    And what I had done is I went to a hospital on that Wednesday, and they did a scan, they did a lumbar puncture. And they did a CT. And because there hadn’t been a bleed yet, what the AVM I reckon had done is it had just kind of swollen or enlarged or something.

    Bill Gasiamis 26:40

    And it started to interfere with my brain. And because it hadn’t bled yet, they missed it on the scan, they did a lumbar puncture, there was no blood in my cerebral spinal fluid. And they said, just you know, go home, you’ll be right. And sure enough, a week later, I was fine. And then I was fine for the entire time until February 2012.

    Bill Gasiamis 27:03

    I woke up with a numb sensation on my toe that spread over seven days, I ignored it, you know, like you I made up a couple of different reasons as to why it was happening. I went to hospital, they said we found a bleed on your brain.

    Bill Gasiamis 27:16

    And I’m like, okay, and then they said, we found a shadow in your brain. And we don’t know what it is. It might be caused by a bleed, it might be a tumor, the tumor might be benign, it might be cancerous. And I’m like, did you need to give me all the options. Could you just like, leave it at we found something that and we’re gonna work it out, you know?

    Bill Gasiamis 27:48

    And that was the scariest moment for me. Because then he left. He gave me that and he just left it goes it was 11pm on a Friday night. He says is there any question? Do you have any questions? I’m like, no, I don’t have any questions. But whatever, you know. So I had to sleep through the rest of the night, woke up in the morning, and had to tell my family and that was difficult because I know that they’re not mild mannered, they’re not calm and collected.

    Bill Gasiamis 28:25

    And my biggest issue in this whole process was managing the emotions of the rest of my family. My God. And that was so annoying, but it was the biggest job if I could keep them calm, then that would help me remain calm and take control of my emotional state right?

    Bill Gasiamis 28:44

    So at that time, what I did was I just went through life thinking no matter what happens, we’re going to solve these problems. We’re going to overcome it. I was kind of always a problem solver. I was always this kind of guy who glass half full always never had any of those types of issues where I was leaning towards the negative or the doom and gloom never ever, I was just always super positive.

    Bill Gasiamis 29:15

    And I would always do this. Okay, what’s good about this situation, or what’s something that’s funny about this situation and I would find things to distract me from the potential downfall of, you know, the spiral into the abyss, you know, so I wasn’t scared.

    Bill Gasiamis 29:36

    And I realized I was mortal. But that didn’t scare me. What bothered me was that I knew I had done some wrong things. In the past I had done some wrongs and my ego finally let go and I was able to notice through my heart that what I need to do is rectify those situations.

    Bill Gasiamis 29:59

    So I did describe it as my head completely switched off. It allowed my heart to come online. And then I was able to rectify a lot of those issues that I had created with the loved ones, especially my wife and my kids. And my parents and my brother and everybody who I felt that I played a part in some of our difficult interactions, which of course I did, but for the first time, I was able to admit it and go, okay, I’ve got to make this good.

    Bill Gasiamis 30:29

    So I just started being the person who I actually wanted to be. I started apologizing, telling them that I loved them. And I started doing all these things that I should have done years and years before that, that I couldn’t do because they were wrong. And they had to apologize first. It’s like the kids that just freakin 12 and 15, or something, and 16.

    Bill Gasiamis 30:58

    And it’s like, they don’t know how to interact with their father like that yet, because I haven’t led the way. In that example, I’ve been the opposite. So they’re doing what I’m doing. And I’ve got to make it right. So what I did is I did a lot of retracing my steps apologizing for these things. And then when I got to the point of the second bleed, then it was just a lot of what am I experiencing? And how can I overcome it? What do I need to do right now?

    Bill Gasiamis 31:03

    Like, what’s the most important thing to do right now what’s the next first step? And that was just okay. So if that meant do nothing all day, that meant do nothing. If that meant do a little bit extra tomorrow them into a little bit extra, I still try to run my property maintenance business, my dad would pick me up and take me for quotes.

    Bill Gasiamis 31:58

    I didn’t win any work. And I imagine it was because I was actually turning up. And I must have sounded like I was drugged. Yeah, but in my mind, it was normal. But of course, I wasn’t interacting normally with anybody. Everybody knew that I wasn’t normal. But I thought I was. So I just went about business.

    Bill Gasiamis 32:22

    Now I couldn’t actually physically work, I couldn’t drive, I couldn’t do any of those things. But the whole time, I didn’t think about I wasn’t afraid of dying or death or any of that stuff. I just wanted to make amends and put things right. And then when I did that, I was fine. So I set up my in 2013, we traveled to the states. And for the first time I did my will and testament and all that kind of stuff.

    Bill Gasiamis 32:55

    So that if we didn’t make it back for whatever reason, then everything was gonna be okay, the kids were all sorted, all that was organized. And that was a real big relief to me that I had also done that and tick that off. So that people aren’t wondering what my intentions were what I was thinking, and I’m not leaving it up to others to make difficult decisions in a difficult time.

    Bill Gasiamis 33:21

    So I wanted to lead, I wanted to start to lead by example. And the previous example was work like an idiot, as many hours a day as you can do everything yourself, never delegate anything, and then struggle and suffer and complain that you never have any time for yourself and blame everybody else for it.

    Bill Gasiamis 33:43

    So it was time to not do that anymore. But I only got caught into that zone. I was only in that zone for it’s still a long time. By the time I was 37 I was in that zone for about 10 years. And that was my trying to discover like what happens when you don’t work for somebody else who gives you everything on a platter and tells you just turn up this is your task for the day do that task.

    Bill Gasiamis 34:14

    All I had to learn how to be a business person but a successful one I didn’t realize meant that you don’t actually have to do everything and work 18 hours a day. You have to find ways to solve problems. And when I was in hospital the second time after the second bleed I had done it by the time I got there which was six weeks after the first bleed I had delegated all my quoting all my work everything to a whole bunch of other people they were doing it for me I was just turning up and meeting with the client.

    Bill Gasiamis 34:52

    I had notified the clients that I was unwell. So they were happy to see me and just chat about things and the business was turning over more money than ever. We had more work than ever. And I was doing way less than I had ever, ever done. And it’s like, what the hell like everything got flipped over.

    Bill Gasiamis 35:19

    And I was sicker than I’d ever been. I had less energy, I had fatigue, I had all these things. And everything else was just skyrocketing. I was like, how did I end up in this situation? And why did I have to wait till a couple of bleeds in the brain to get to this point.

    Facing Mortality – Steve Molter


    Steve 35:36
    There’s so many things that you shared there that resonate deeply with me. The first thing is that you weren’t afraid. And that was something that I had experienced as well. I was like, I might die tonight. I’m not afraid to die.

    Steve 35:54

    But I’m sad that I will not have these experiences. Right, but my niece and nephew, for example, seeing them again, for the first time for my niece. But as you told that there’s sort of a roller coaster, right? Because it’s like progress isn’t linear, right, you don’t just get better, you don’t have a problem and then get better.

    Steve 36:17

    It’s like, up and down and over here and back. And that’s the hardest thing. The thing that I feel like helped me the most was letting go of all of it. And saying, you know, I can’t do these things. I couldn’t like you, I couldn’t do any physical labor, I couldn’t walk down the street without being fatigued winded, you know.

    Steve 36:42

    And so I couldn’t go grocery shopping, I couldn’t drive for 90 days or something like that. Months, a couple of months. I couldn’t go grocery shopping, I had to rely on people, I had to ask for help a lot. And like you, I was extremely self sufficient. I had been single for a long time, I did it all myself, I was happy to do it.

    Steve 37:02

    And then when this happened, I couldn’t. And asking for help is very vulnerable, you know. And I had to dig more deeply into the vulnerability, something I was cultivating prior to the strokes. But it was still something that was challenging. I love the way you talk about delegation, because I’m a manager in my life, I’m a design manager.

    Steve 37:26

    And the best thing I can do is to delegate to the people who know best and get out of their way. Right. And in situations when we are unwell. And like I was and like you were, we can’t do it, we are the worst person for the job in a lot of sense. So we have to give it to the people who are the best.

    Steve 37:46

    I felt like that in the hospital, I was like, I’m not a neurologist. So I’m just going to keep my mouth shut and try to have a good attitude as best I can. Because I don’t know what I’m talking about. The nurses, I don’t know, anything that they’re doing, I’m just gonna do the same thing. The challenge that I hear you had was, or the way you described it, it sounds like you had to kind of be the one to maintain the stress level.

    Steve 38:08

    Right, you had to keep your family distressed. I was lucky enough that the folks directly in my circle, my cousin, my best friend and his wife, or his fiancee, they were the ones about to get married. They really kept like a, they kept me insulated from that stress. They never told me what they went through until I was long passed into recovery.

    Steve 38:39

    And it you know, it’s challenging, because when you’re the one, the only thing you have control of is your response. And so you have to say, You know what, I need to be cool. And I told my parents like you cannot come out here because they live in Massachusetts at the time, you know, 3000 miles away.

    Steve 38:59

    So they were like we’re gonna come out I was like, Absolutely not, because that’s stressful, just like, you know. And so I was lucky to that I could get the space. It was challenging because I had the space too at the same time on the flip side of the coin.

    Steve 39:15

    But I was able to navigate, and I was able to maintain and I was able to be calm, and to face and cope with the challenges that I had to, you know, without adding any extra on. So it was just the recovery. That was the thing that mattered to me. I was very lucky for that. very appreciative for that.

    Bill Gasiamis 39:37

    So, I love that. Just the recovery.

    Steve 39:41

    It’s just the recovery. I have to ask. I’ve spent some time in Melbourne and two of my friends one isn’t Essendon supporter and one’s a Bulldog supporter. And so I have like merch from both of them somewhere like koozies and scarves and things somewhere around here but I’m curious who you support not that I know a lot.

    Bill Gasiamis 40:00

    I support Collingwood. It’s one of the most famous clubs in the world. It’s one of the most supported clubs in Australia. And we have a the luck when we get to the grand final, we have the same luck that the Buffalo Bills have in the NFL right. And I’m a Buffalo Bills fan, just simply because they have the name Bill right?

    Bill Gasiamis 40:26

    So I picked up the bills in the 90s. And, and I felt like I had done the worst thing for them, because as soon as I discovered them, they just kept attending and losing, attending and losing.

    Bill Gasiamis 40:42

    My team has made the most grand finals, and it has lost the most grand finals. Right, and we have not won the most. We’re very close to having won the most. But we have lost the most grand finals. I was like I don’t want to, you know, I don’t wanna be associated with teams like that. But they’re my teams you know what can I do?

    Steve 41:07

    Yeah, totally. Oh, that’s awesome. I bring it up just because Melbourne has a space in my heart, for sure. I spent like a month there back in 2016. And had the best time I have good friends who live there. And are raising families there. And it’s a beautiful place, I love it, I can’t wait to get back.

    Bill Gasiamis 41:29

    It’s a beautiful place, it’s a chill place, there’s a lot of resources, it’s a very great place to have a stroke, because facilities are amazing, the best hospitals in the world.

    Steve 41:39

    I’d love to have a stroke there. I know the feeling.

    Bill Gasiamis 41:44

    But what’s interesting about you know, your journey, and the whole football thing is that that whole mentality is, you know, is all about. And football teams are starting to now be a little bit smarter in the way they approach things, you know, they analyze a little that they understand, you know, how it’s important to control emotions, you know, we’re in the old days, all in brawls, and spontaneous.

    Bill Gasiamis 42:14

    Just crazy non football events would be happening on the football field. And you kind of started to see how all of society’s moving away from just emotionally responding to learning that it’s really important to get a grip and hold your emotions at bay when it’s important at the right time at the right place.

    Competitive Mindset In Stroke Recovery

    Bill Gasiamis 42:35

    And what’s also interesting about my team is is that they may have the most losses in a grand final, but they also have the most wins. And that is because they have the most attendances in the grand final. So, what it becomes later becomes a numbers game. So, for us why that’s relevant to us in recovery is that the more attempts you make at recovery, the more chances are that you’re going to have setbacks, but then the more chances are, you’re going to have wins as well.

    Bill Gasiamis 43:14

    Right. So it’s what you said it’s about right now, if you don’t have the distractions of everyone’s emotional state, and you just have the mindset of a recovery and nothing else, you’re going to get a better version of recovery than you would have if you had to deal with all the rest of the junk that’s going on in the periphery that’s not important or relevant to recovery, right? It becomes a really selfish time.

    Bill Gasiamis 43:42

    And it’s okay to be selfish then and make it about you. And those people turning up that used to come and used to make it about them. Oh man I sprained my foot the other day, like, I know what you’re going through. It’s like, no, you know, no shit. Like, you sprained your foot, you know, there’s nothing inside your brain.

    Bill Gasiamis 44:02

    And there’s something in my brain that’s hurting, that doesn’t work and I might die tomorrow and you’re gonna sprain for and you reckon that now’s the time to compare that to me, it’s not, be quiet, leave go away. I listened to the Jordan Peterson podcast every once in a while, and he has this saying that it brings up from time to time and I’m pretty sure it’s in his books.

    Bill Gasiamis 44:27

    He talks about if you’re going to turn up to a funeral, be the best person at that funeral for people to come to who need solutions to what the hell to do at a funeral or how to behave or how to deal with the tragedy and all that kind of stuff. So it’s about taking responsibility and discovering how you need to behave appropriately at the correct time for the circumstances that people are experiencing.

    Bill Gasiamis 44:58

    And it’s like you yeah, like, I want to be that guy. I want to be the best guy at the funeral. But I want to be the best guy when it comes to me dealing with my own stroke recovery. And I think one of the challenges that I always have with religion, and it’s not that belief in God or not, it’s that religion outsources most of the time responsibility on some thing happening in your life to some being out there that we can’t really see.

    Bill Gasiamis 45:26

    Like, if you want something good to happen, ask God, if it didn’t happen, it wasn’t God’s will. Well, you know, maybe you didn’t get off your ass and try for it enough. Or maybe you didn’t go back when you got the setbacks, maybe, you know, that was issues. So I said, this underlying tone in my family and in the families that we hang out with, is this whole, you know, I’m gonna go and pray for you.

    Bill Gasiamis 45:57

    That’s great. Don’t pray for me. Pray for you. Pray for you to be the best person that you can be. So that when I need you, I can call on you. Because when I was in hospital, the first time my dad got the news, got ready to come see me didn’t take his medication, or took his medication on an empty stomach or did something wrong with his medication. Is this guy is six foot one or two and is like 100 and something kilos.

    Bill Gasiamis 46:34

    Which is? I’m not sure how many pounds couple 100 pounds. He’s a big guy, right? And he collapses at home. My mom is half his size. And now my mom has got my dad on the ground in the courtyard, and her son in hospital, and it’s like, what the hell’s going on? And now she’s got to get the ambulance there to pick him up. And come and visit me right? And she comes to visit me and I said to her where’s Dad? He’s downstairs. What do you mean? He’s downstairs?

    Steve 47:11

    He’s down the hall.

    Bill Gasiamis 47:13

    Tell him to comeup. No he’s downstairs in emergency he fell over, collapsed. I said, What do you mean? Well, he collapsed because he didn’t do some of his medications and dadada.

    Bill Gasiamis 47:24

    So my dad lost his shit emotionally. couldn’t think straight, couldn’t do anything. Didn’t do the right thing, collapsed. And now my mum’s now managing that whole process with me, and my dad both in the same hospital. So I’ve said to the nurses, right, wheel me down to my dad, I want to go see my dad, you know, get me out of here.

    Bill Gasiamis 47:46

    And I went down and had to see my Dad while this thing is in my brain bleeding, doing whatever the hell it’s doing. So that was that right? Now, my wife’s real stoic, she’s real amazing lady. She’s great. She’s not the best at managing her emotional state, but neither is her entire family. Right?

    Bill Gasiamis 48:03

    They really struggle with that. And she went through a lot. And when I had my third bleed. I think within two weeks after that her mom passed away. So she was going through a very stressful time. And a week before my surgery, my brain surgery, we had to bury her.

    Bill Gasiamis 48:27

    So it’s horrific circumstances. So we’ve done that. And she’s not looking after herself. Properly. As you can imagine, people might not do that. And then when I go into brain surgery, come out of that. And then I’m in recovery. She collapses, and now I’m in hospital. And I’m calling nurses over, and I’m saying my wife is collapsing.

    Bill Gasiamis 48:56

    And she’s in the bedroom, in my ward next to me. And some weird reason is they won’t take her and care for her. They said you have to go to emergency so she had to walk down to emergency admit herself and say I’m not feeling well, I’ve collapsed or something like that.

    Bill Gasiamis 49:17

    So she then does that, right? She goes there. And they admit her. And I don’t know where my wife is, and I’m in recovery with a wound on my head, I can’t walk. I can’t do any of these things because my left side is gone. And then I want to find out where my wife is in she is in a bed, connected to the heart monitors and all these other monitors and all that sort of stuff.

    Bill Gasiamis 49:45

    And I’m in there in my wheelchair, two days after brain surgery. And my wife, I said to her look, do they know what happened? What’s going on? She goes I don’t know they’re doing tests etc. And My brain surgeon, my neurosurgeon walks past us. And looks just as he, as it does in all, you know, boards probably.

    Bill Gasiamis 49:51

    And then he does a double take. And he goes, what the hell’s going on? What are you two doing down here? I said to him well, I’m here because my wife’s unwell. We don’t know what’s wrong with her she collapsed.

    Bill Gasiamis 50:29

    And he’s going well, let me find out what’s going on. Let me get you guys some answers, etc. So my challenge is, you can see it’s like really was about trying to manage the other people around me because they were dropping like flies.

    Preparing Yourself

    Steve 50:48

    I don’t mean to laugh you know, it’s been so long and like, we go through those things. And I can see you have a smile as you’re telling the story. And I definitely don’t mean to laugh. Because what an awful time for everyone but like, that people just like literally I mean, it’s like Unreal, like a farce. It’s like a joke. You know what I mean? It’s like, How is this even happening right now? It’s unreal.

    Bill Gasiamis 51:13

    Yeah. And, that’s the point is like, you need to prepare in your life, you need to prepare for the shitty moments, because they will happen. So when they happen, you need to have done a little bit of homework to prepare, so that if you can’t do anything else, at least you can feed yourself and hydrate yourself appropriately just so that you can be well enough.

    Bill Gasiamis 51:38

    Now. I don’t want to give my wife a hard time. Because I wouldn’t want to go through what she went through three years of the shit that I put her through, at least until brain surgery, then her mom passing. Like, she deserves a break, right? Let’s give her a break.

    Bill Gasiamis 51:55

    But at the same time, it’s like, okay, everyone needs to do what they need to do to get through as well as possible. Because if she’s gone, and I’m gone, what are my kids gonna do? And then we had to tell my parents, obviously, we had to tell my parents about all of this stuff, they’re losing their shit.

    Bill Gasiamis 52:20

    And my brother is a great guy, but he’s a bit of an emotional, you know, never gonna be kind of guy like, he can’t do those really emotional things, right. So I feel like I can’t rely on them. And I’ve got to step up again. And I’ve got to rise above it again. And I’ve got to bring everybody calm and show Hey, guys, I’m alright, I’m good.

    Bill Gasiamis 52:44

    So I prepared for three years for brain surgery. I told my team of doctors while I was getting an eighth antis for them to open my head up. I told them I’ve prepared for this for three years, I am the best patient you’re ever going to have. My body is a vessel that gets ready for this surgery.

    Bill Gasiamis 53:12

    I’m going to be the best patient you experience and we’re going to have the best outcome. So I’ve done my job for you. I’ve done the preparation, what you guys need to do now is your job. And I know you guys are prepared. So we’re gonna have a great outcome. I’m telling them this. They’re injecting me with an anaesthetic. And then I’m gone.

    Steve 53:33

    Totally Yeah, that’s amazing. That to me is exactly, sorry, go ahead.

    Bill Gasiamis 53:39

    And I was gonna finish by saying the feedback after the surgery was the surgery went for way shorter than we expected. And you bled way less than we expected. I haven’t had somebody hypnotize me to tell my body to bleed only the appropriate amount that was necessary to purge bad blood and do all those things and not a bleed unnecessarily. Because it wasn’t going to be helpful for surgery.

    Steve 54:11

    See, that’s the stuff that you have to bring into any traumatic situation you go through, right. And my stroke. That whole thing was the most traumatic thing I’ve ever gone through by my as a firm myself. I’ve had other experiences that were extremely challenging.

    Steve 54:36

    One that shook me to the core, and it’s still the scariest moment of my life that I won’t talk about here, but I’ve had a lot of issues, a lot of situations where shit hits the fan, and you have to be prepared. You have no idea what’s going to happen. So you can’t be prepared for the exact thing. You can just be prepared to know that when something goes on. I won’t know what to do, my instincts will take over my intuition will take over.

    Steve 55:05

    And I will allow those things to drive me at that point. And, and I look at that when, you know, I don’t know, like I think about it’s such a weird analogy but like I think about performing as a musician. And I remember performing, there was a show in Seattle that we played.

    Steve 55:22

    And we drove in, and we set up. And then we had to go park the van somewhere. And I went out to park the van with like, our merch guy or photographer, I don’t know. And we were driving around, couldn’t find a spot anywhere and time was ticking. And I had to get back to the show. And I remember like parking that like parallel parking a van with a hitch in downtown Seattle.

    Steve 55:43

    And like, you know, running to the venue coming in the back door and getting on stage. And I had to now perform, I had to go into the space, I was super stressed. And I got on stage and I turned and I looked at my bass player who’s all warmed up and he was like, are you ready? I was like, Yes, I am.

    Steve 56:01

    Because this is what I have to do now, this is my job right now, not parking the van, not worrying about if we’re going to get a ticket, all I have to do is turn on and perform. And so it was like if I hadn’t been if I hadn’t prepared myself in so many different ways for that specific scenario being ready to perform, I would have just, I mean, I would have had a bad show.

    Steve 56:22

    And that’s not a fun time. So it’s like, you know, that’s a very low stakes analogy. But the high stakes stuff rings true. And I’ve been in those situations where it’s just, you get in it and you just do the thing you have to do. And I say the words that need to be said, and that’s it. You know.

    Steve 56:39

    And remember, when we, you know another analogy, my wife and I went out to do some errands came home and our cat broke her elbow. And we had no idea. And we were like, like she would we had just gotten her it was like a month after we got her. And we had to go to the hospital. I just like when I allow myself to focus on the task at hand. I don’t get emotional.

    Steve 57:05

    Because there’s no time for it. I’ll be emotional after. You know, when we’re at the hospital, when she’s in surgery, when she’s doing the thing, and the doctor says this thing will be good. Or when I get on stage, I’ll be fine. And then after the show, I can be like, guys, let me tell you this story about trying to park the van. But it’s like the emotion can come later. Right. There’s no time for it in the moment. And it seems like we both have that experience, which is important.

    Bill Gasiamis 57:30

    It’s so important. And you know, how you said those low-stakes events are low-steak but they’re the training for that big event that’s coming that we don’t know that’s coming. And that’s what’s really great about these low stakes stuff. So the cat broke its elbow man, that’s pretty high stakes to me anyway.

    Steve 57:53

    It’s really high stakes. Yes, it was very much.

    Bill Gasiamis 57:58

    Yeah, right. And animals in distress. And what you need to do is you need to become so that you can keep it calm and decrease the pain and suffering and whatever right and get the solution and solve it right. So it all add up to training you to expect to deal with a thing that’s coming that we don’t know.

    Bill Gasiamis 58:21

    And I have this other thing that I live by is like expect the best prepare for the worst. Right. So I’m forever expecting a great outcome. But if it doesn’t come, I’ve got 25 solutions waiting in the wings some way to solve that problem. And it’s a bit frustrating because what happens is then people come to me for the solution instinctively because they know that I’ve got and it’s like, freakin hell.

    Bill Gasiamis 58:51

    I wish you guys had the solution one time, you know, just so that if I did, croak it if I wasn’t here anymore. I feel comfortable that you guys all right, that I’m gonna let you know that you guys are going to overcome your life, you know, whatever. And it’s been really interesting because with my son, my oldest just moved out.

    Bill Gasiamis 59:12

    He’s 25. And even up until the day before he moved out, he’d be asking me, I say lovingly to him now, right? Like the stupidest questions. You know, where should I park the car outside the house? Like dude, wherever there’s a spot, just park the frickin car. You know, why do you have to ask me that.

    Bill Gasiamis 59:36

    But what I realized was while he was living under this roof, this guy’s a successful guy at work. Like, he doesn’t need his dad giving these answers. But while we were under the same roof, we’re playing the role of father, you know, at the top of the hierarchy for example, son beneath him, you know, needs permission for everything and all that kind of stuff.

    Bill Gasiamis 59:59

    And I’m like going crazy, I would try to let him run free and trying to let him grow up and become an adult, you know. And it couldn’t happen, he needed to move out for that to occur, you know, there needed to be this metaphorical death of his father so that he doesn’t come to me to solve problems, like, where should I park the car like, seriously man.

    Steve 1:00:26

    There’s like, you know, I don’t have children. So I can’t speak to parenthood, but I manage teams. And so I can speak to management, people management.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:00:36

    They’re the same man they’re like your children.

    Team Management

    Steve 1:00:40

    Yeah, and like, there’s a, you know, I manage a team of designers right now. And I want them to succeed, my goal is for them to do good work, to be able to do the work they want to do, to provide them with work streams to do so and to be able to provide them tools to evaluate themselves, so that we can talk about their future and how they can grow.

    Steve 1:01:05

    And I have to get out of their way. And I have to let them do their thing. And sometimes that’s, going to be making mistakes, it’s natural, and it’s okay, and I’m willing to take that risk in certain situations. But I want to train them provide them space to do the things they need to do.

    Steve 1:01:21

    And that’s that training, that’s the low-stakes stuff, I can measure what’s low-stakes enough that if it goes wrong, it’s all good, it’s not a big deal. And I’ll take credit for going wrong, right. But when they’re successes, that’s all them, they do when they when I’m there to help and go, yay.

    Steve 1:01:41

    But when we lose that’s on me because that means I didn’t have the foresight to figure out, you know, what was needed, or how the how the team should be configured. And that’s fine. That’s what I signed up for, it’s what I do, it’s my job. But when I have, when they come to me with those types of questions where I’m like, It’s okay, you can make a decision, you’re allowed, I’m going to give you space to make the decision you’re going to do, it’s going to be all good.

    Steve 1:02:05

    Because we can always pivot, you know, we’re not brain surgeons here, right? To be relative relevant. We’re just, you know, we’re designers like designing stuff for aviation, like, it’s pretty low stakes, like, we’re not gonna, you know, anyway, all that to say, we have to provide that space for ourselves, as well, going through that space, we have to say, Hey, it’s okay to fail.

    Steve 1:02:31

    It’s okay to make mistakes. It’s okay, if I don’t have all the answers. And it’s okay to rely on people who feel like they might be unreliable. But maybe they’re not. Because we have to give them a chance. And I can sense for you, that there’s there was a lot of pressure on you at the time. And it sounds like there’s a lot of growth happening for everyone as well.

    Steve 1:02:51

    But, you know, I didn’t have that experience. But I did have the pressure on myself to be well, and I had no control of that, really, you know, I did, of course, I do eat well, and not overexert myself on these types of things. But at the end of the day, I still hold myself to a very high standard, and I still have to cut yourself some slack, you know, a lot of the time and I don’t do that.

    Steve 1:03:19

    And that’s not fair, because I treat my employees and like my team members, like, they can do no wrong, you know, because they’re trying, they’re doing their best, and they’re really good at what they do. But I don’t give myself that same amount of respect. And it’s terrible, you know, it’s not going to be beneficial for anyone.

    Steve 1:03:38

    And I kind of sense that you have a little bit of that too where you feel like you need to do it. And then when you can’t, or you don’t, maybe you feel like you let yourself down. I don’t know, I don’t want to put words in your mouth.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:03:51

    Yeah, that’s pretty close. What I realized is that I’m the biggest obstacle to my own recovery. And sure, the other people are too. But the story I tell myself about the other people is just a bullshit story that I’m telling. So that I am the biggest person who gets in the way of my recovery the most I either don’t sleep well eat well enough.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:15

    I work too much. I stress too much. I don’t meditate enough. I don’t take time out for myself to do the things that I love that are my passion. So I am the biggest person that gets in the way the most of my life, lifestyle, recovery, whatever you want to call it.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:32

    So yeah, I’ve got a go meta I’ve got to observe myself and how I’m impacting myself in my world, and I’ve got to go. Okay, enough, enough of doing things that you dislike you don’t get pleasure out of enough of saying yes to people that you should be saying no to enough of doing all that kind of stuff.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:04:54

    And it’s hard because I did that yesterday, right? So in these lockdowns in Australia, what In Melbourne, we’ve had the most lockdowns than any other, any other city in the world, right? And it’s been, oh God, man, it’s the hardest two years of my life almost, it’s harder than then stroke almost this whole thing, right? Because other people were impacting my ability to move.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:21

    And regardless of what the underlying reason was, which was, theoretically a great reason, because we don’t want to spread the virus and all that kind of stuff yet, you’re still dealing with being told you can’t go anywhere by somebody else. Right? So in that time, we struggling with work, we’re struggling with all these things.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:05:42

    And somebody says to me, Look, I need this handrail installed on some stairs. And I’m like, Yeah, no worries, I’m happy to come and do it. I haven’t got any work. So you know, come and do it. So but there’s no directions placed on whether you can enter somebody’s home and who can work and under what conditions you can work. And unlike the restrictions are now that I can’t come in here can’t do this.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:06:08

    This was about three months ago. And we had a snap seven day lockdown that lasted for two and a half months, you know? So I never went back to this guy. And I said, and then he calls me a couple of days ago, and he says, can you come and do this? Quiet for this handrail, listen, I can’t because what’s happened in Australia, I know, it’s like the rest of the world.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:06:37

    But in Australia right now is we rely a lot of international guests to come and work here. And fill positions that normally can’t be like normal can be filled by the locals, because there’s not enough of us. And there’s this labor shortage. So it doesn’t matter how much work you have, you cannot find people to do the work, we have ad out, and you can’t get people to do the work.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:07:03

    So we’ve got more work than we can handle for months and months and months in advance. And it’s like, I can’t come? Because I can’t get through the work that I’ve got. And I’m stuck. That was a difficult conversation to have. So I don’t want to let him down. I want to go and do that.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:07:22

    But I actually can’t. It is important to me. But so are all the other people who have paid and are waiting for me to deliver an outcome. And I had to tell him that and he got really mad. And it’s like, that really mad part that people do? Is the part that makes it hard for me to say no.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:07:47

    Because I don’t like making people mad. Not that I did. He made himself mad. But I don’t like to be involved in that interaction. And the old me would normally go. You know what? Let me come. Let me come and sort it out.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:08:06

    I’d hate the whole time I was going there. I’d get annoyed when I had to order the parts and then go and install them. I’d get annoyed when he hadn’t paid like the initial deposit on the time.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:08:17

    And then I’d get annoyed when you hadn’t paid the follow up money on the time. And like, I’d be doing that work all day every day. And I’d never would say no, this one. And then it’s like, Well, I hate my life. And I blame them. I blame all of them.

    Steve 1:08:34

    Exactly. Blame everybody else. And that acknowledgement of like creating those stories of bullshit stories, as you refer to them is so real. We create the stories, our ego creates the stories to allow us to be perfect, we’re perfect. I’m perfect. That guy got mad. Forget that guy.

    Steve 1:09:00

    You know, like, what’s my responsibility, it comes back to your didn’t talk that you had the thing that you said earlier about, like going to a funeral and how to act at a funeral. Nobody’s there for you, you know, nobody cares that you’re there. In reality, if you didn’t go, no one’s gonna miss you.

    Steve 1:09:17

    So when you’re there, be quiet, be respectful, and move on. Right? These are like the things that oftentimes it’s all you have to do. Just be quiet, be respectful and do your thing. And it’s like, but we have to allow ourselves that space to acknowledge the bullshit that we create. I create so much and for me it was always in relationship.

    Steve 1:09:38

    And so I’ve been married. Just over a year actually. We got married like, for us it was the peak pre vaccine of the pandemic. Just us and two friends because we don’t want to be unsafe. But, my bullshit stories came in relationship. And now my wife is unreal, she’s amazing. And she provides me space to see the bullshit that I’m creating. Do you know what I mean?

    Steve 1:10:08

    I’m always like, you know, I don’t always not always. But the moments of my ego comes in. And it’s like she said something mean, she’s the worst, right? That’s my ego talking. And I’m like, wait a second. Was that really mean? Did she really mean that? What did she say? How did she say it? Would she do that? If she gave me any evidence for me to believe that she would say or do anything to hurt me?

    Steve 1:10:33

    No. Okay, so shut the fuck up. But, and I have to tell myself that when those things happen, and that I think is like, it ties into the recovery, you know, I’m saying, I need to focus. And all the fears that I have are unfounded. Because I have a good team of doctors, I was lucky to have a good team of doctors, I had support from friends.

    Steve 1:11:01

    And it wasn’t like my experience was my experience. But it was not at the severity of so many other experiences like mine, and I had to recognize that. And I remember one of my neurologists, who was like on call one day came in and was checking in on me in the hospital.

    Steve Molter Dealing With The Deficits

    Steve 1:11:18

    How you doing ? And my vision, because I said on my vision went down to a pinhole, it actually came back mostly now it’s reverse. So I have a blind spot. But it’s pretty nominal. I can play tricks with it. Like if I look at the ground, and there’s a penny on the ground, I don’t see the penny, if I look at a certain angle, you know what I mean?

    Steve 1:11:36

    So it’s weird. But ultimately, my vision mostly came back and I have a small blind spot. And I was like complaining about it to him in the hospital’s like, is just weird. And he was like, Have you ever seen the Diving Bell and the Butterfly? And I was like, Yeah, I have. He’s like, you were like, you could have been like centimetres away from that happening.

    Steve 1:11:56

    So is this really that bad? He was like, trying to bust my chops, rightfully so. And I was like, You’re right. Thank you, you know, thanks. And I think about that all the time. Because, you know, I’m so lucky. And I’m so grateful from what I experienced. And that that was the severity. That was the, as far as I got. But I need to give myself space to feel those things to not live in those feelings, you know?

    Bill Gasiamis 1:12:24

    And you’re allowed to feel those feelings and move on from them. Experience it. Go, oh, that was an interesting feeling. Alright, let’s just move on from it. And let’s find another one that’s more serving to us, more serving to our relationship, better serving the recovery, better serving us in life and other people around us.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:12:43

    And it’s like, okay, I’m entitled to feel those feelings. Well, let’s just do it for as little time as possible, and then move on to something else. Yeah, I agree with that. And I love what your doctor says, because some of the things that I get feedback from people who are recovering from deficits on one side is that they’ve got this comparison that they do.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:13:04

    So the fact that they’ve got the comparison is like, that side that doesn’t feel correct. Should be feeling like this side. Well, no, it should be feeling like the shitty side that it feels, because that’s what a stroke does to it. If you didn’t have a stroke, then that’s fine. And if there was no reason for it to feel different than that’s fine, what you’re saying.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:13:26

    But the fact that you have had a stroke, like, it should feel shitty. And I’m not saying that you’re going to love that on it’s going to be amazing, or it won’t be painful or won’t be annoying. Unfortunately, that’s what it’s supposed to feel like. I don’t know what to do about that.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:13:43

    But right now, because we might not have the answers for that. But if you can accept that, that’s what happens when you have a stroke. And now you have to deal with it. That’s fine. Every single day, my left side, if I had to compare the two, I’m a perfect Gemini.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:13:57

    Now like, I’m born in June, my star sign is Gemini. I am completely two different people on one side of my body and then the other side of my body, I feel it. I experience it. They walk differently. They move differently, they feel differently. Everything about it is different. And one side experiences pain more dramatically and cold more dramatically in the heat more dramatically. I even perspire sometimes on one side of my body and not on the other side of my body.

    Steve 1:14:25

    That is insane. And it is what it is.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:14:31

    And it’s not pleasant. But what the hell am I gonna do about it? I can’t change it. Yeah, and by overthinking it, I can’t change it. It doesn’t change. It doesn’t get better. So yeah. You had a spontaneous vertebral artery dissection. So where’s it at now? How did they manage that? How have they resolved it?

    Steve 1:14:57

    Yeah, so there was a the fear for me that they were going to have to do surgery. They didn’t. Basically what they did is they put me on Coumadin. And what’s the other one? Oh my gosh, I forgot. That’s good. I forgot, it’s so long. There’s another blood thinner. That’s like you can only use in hospitals, I forgot what it’s called.

    Steve 1:15:19

    But I was on Coumadin and this other thing, I’m really happy that I don’t remember it. To be honest, that means the story is going so far away that it’s not defining me. But anyway, I was on Heparin, that’s what it is, of course, anyway, I was on these two drugs during my stay at the hospital, which basically just like, you know, thinned my blood out, so that they, the blood would just cruise right through, bust the clot.

    Steve 1:15:42

    And the blood would just go right through to my brain, and then the artery healed on its own. So it was able to, to to do its thing, you know, as arteries do. And then I went in for MRIs every couple months, just to make sure everything is good. And I was on Coumadin for like, I think four months, which is pretty brief, you know, given what I went through.

    Steve 1:16:03

    And then I remember taking my last dose of Clomid, and it was basically good. Now I just take baby aspirin every day. And I haven’t had many, the first like year or two, there was stuff, you know, it was a roller coaster. And then since then I’ve only had one point of fear. Well, two, one was an experience at home that I had. And this is like right after I had met my wife, she was my girlfriend at the time, and I had an episode.

    Steve 1:16:33

    And it wasn’t related. But I didn’t know. And she freaked out, understandably, she knew that I had the strokes. And it’s a scary thing to introduce a partner to oh, by the way, you know, I’ve had strokes. And that means I’m more likely to have one in the future. Cool. And then another time I was traveling, and I was in Rome, and two weeks of just terrible headaches.

    Steve 1:16:56

    And my friend, amazingly, who I was staying with her, unfortunately, her mother passed from a stroke many years prior, but she still had contact with those doctors. And so she was like, if you need a doctor, like I got a guy for sure. And so I was under her care and kind of her and her boyfriend helped me and just made me feel safe.

    Steve 1:17:17

    That if anything did happen, they had the right thing. But that was just headaches for two weeks. And that was it. And subsequently, it’s standard stuff. I get super lightheaded when I stand up. If I sleep wrong, it’s just always exacerbates right here. You know, it’s pretty minor, given everything, though. So I’m very lucky to be where I am today.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:17:39

    I remember traveling as well to Greece. Maybe I think it was a few years after the I’m pretty sure it was before brain surgery. And I was in Greece and feeling like maybe I’m having another one you know, and it’s so scary. And traveling to the states and buying the most expensive insurance you could get so that in the event, you know, anything went wrong.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:18:09

    And then I had the fear that had to ever come of being in an aeroplane for 30 hours before we got to California. And it’s like, if it happens, I’ve got 30 hours. Like if it doesn’t happen in the plane, you know, whatever, after that. If it happens anywhere else we’re okay.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:18:28

    But and that whole idea of trying to be excited about the flight and not give away that I was afraid of it, you know too much. But then I wasn’t involved in the organizing of the of the trip, my wife was doing it all and she was trying to work out why isn’t this guy keen? You know? Like, why doesn’t he want to go down that path?

    Bill Gasiamis 1:18:52

    I’m crapping my pants and I don’t want to get to this situation again. And I don’t know if the situation is resolved. Now I did have the blessing of my doctors but I wasn’t taking any medication. There was nothing to do for this bleed. It was just hope to God that it didn’t bleed again for three years.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:19:15

    And, anyway, we got away with it. But yeah, it’s a little bit terrifying. And I can understand why people would be reluctant to have an experience. Because they’re thinking what if it happens again, and I want to say that that’s normal, and people who are listening and watching, I want to make sure that they’re comfortable going.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:19:37

    There’s this thing I’m noticing that strange, and I’m not sure what it is. So I don’t feel good about it. So you know what, let’s go and get that checked out. Go to the doctor, go to the emergency room, go wherever you need to go. To actually ease your concern and allow you to start to understand the difference between the stroke and this thing that you’re experiencing that’s not a stroke.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:20:00

    I was in the hospital every second week if I had to be because something happened and I wasn’t feeling quite right. And even though I haven’t had any real dramas since 2014, when I had surgery, I still went back in the last couple of years, before all the lockdowns before COVID, I remember going back and going for a checkup because I had this massive headache or something was going wrong.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:20:32

    And I went to the ER, and I said to them, listen, I’m a former brain surgery survivor, I’ve had, you know, three bleeds and I had an AVM and this stuff’s going on. And I don’t know what it is. And because of my history, I thought I’d come and get a checked out.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:20:50

    And they’re like, Okay, fair enough. So, we went through the process. We ruled all of that stuff out. But it was the smart thing to do. Because previously, when I had those weird, strange feelings, I said, It’s nothing. I’ll be right, off to work.

    Steve 1:21:04

    Exactly. Yeah, exactly. I had the same experience when I got out of the hospital. And for the first stretch, the doctor was like, you feel anything, just come back, just go to the ER, it’s all good. Like, no worries. And thankfully, I had really good insurance. So any Americans watching or listening, like, they know, the challenge of insurance.

    Steve 1:21:24

    And I was very grateful to have amazing insurance. That was huge for me at that time. But I went back to the ER, like, the week, within a week after I got out, because something was funny. And they checked me out, and they did the whole thing. And like, you’re okay, it’s just your healing, and you can feel it.

    Steve 1:21:41

    You know, I was like, Okay, and so I learned that, okay, my vision is gonna act funky, until it’s settled, right, my vision would still like, move a little weird. And then I would get pains in my neck. And I had to recognize that Oh, I was, I was healing and you can feel healing. And that’s good. That’s a good pain.

    Steve 1:22:00

    And then your vision is finding its space to settle. Right. And these were the things that I had to learn how to an ophthalmologist, optometrist, brain doctors, you know, I went to did MRIs, like I said before, a few times with contrast the whole mind. And at a certain point, it was like, you’re good, you know, and like, go do your thing. And you’re gonna be okay.

    Steve 1:22:24

    If anything comes up, you feel anything weird? Here are the tests you can do at home. Right? And it’s like, the squeezing the hands and like the, you know, pushing, pushing the knees and all these different things. And then, if you need it beyond that, go to the ER, and it’s totally okay. It’s, perfectly acceptable to be afraid. No, I still get afraid. And it’s okay. When I wake up in the morning, and I have pain I go, there’s the split second of not again, and then No, no, it’s not that. And I move on.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:22:58

    Yeah. And it’s been a long time. And this is the thing, like, people need to understand that stroke recovery is ongoing, it kind of never ends, and you’re always going back to that moment, or some space in time. And you’re always thinking about, and it’s okay, if it’s fleeting, then it’s all right, you know, it comes into your mind and spends a little time there, and then it goes away.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:23:18

    You know, if it’s not, then you need to work out why it’s still in your mind and how you can ease that, what you need to learn to overcome that, you know, how you need to upgrade your skills, or your emotional state or your mental state, you know, who needs to get support from?

    Bill Gasiamis 1:23:35

    Well, I’ve been in counseling, since I was 25. And I go still. And in lockdown, we weren’t able to go to counseling, and that was a real drama. But I’m in counseling, and I go there. And that’s where I go to get somebody to give me a third perspective, give me another perspective of my behavior, how I act, what I’m feeling, is it legitimate, you know, so that we can just hash it out and see if we can, you know, see if I can evolve further continue to evolve my way of approaching response.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:24:14

    And my way of responding to, to the world and to my situation and to the situation around us and to COVID at the beginning, I was terrible. I was like, so bad, with the political aspect of how COVID has been dealt with in Melbourne. And then towards the end, it’s like, I’m still dissatisfied with a lot of things, but I’m not interacting with that stuff now,.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:24:41

    And I’m not letting it occupy my mind as much because it’s out of my control. I’ve control the controllables I can control my response and how I behave. And what an example I’m setting, but I can’t control what the politicians are doing. Let’s be honest, they’re going to do what they want to do.

    Steve 1:25:00

    That’s a great quote, control the controllables.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:25:03

    Yeah, right. It’s not my quote, I think it came from, you know, one of the ancient philosophers or something, but I hear about it. I hear about it a lot from a guy called Ryan Holiday, who wrote a book called, which I have right here, which is called the obstacle is the way.

    Seeking Out Support

    Bill Gasiamis 1:25:24

    And check that out. Yeah, it’s a great book, actually amazing book. And we’re at that point, I’m at that point where, you know, you seek help out to ease your mind about that thing that you felt, I do that as well. And then I also seek out help to go and get another perspective of this part of me that I haven’t mastered yet.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:25:50

    You know, this, this need to go into the rabbit hole of, you know, nuttiness or craziness or anger, or, you know, whatever it is. So that’s what we’re encouraging here. We’re encouraging seek out support or help from wherever you can.

    Steve 1:26:08

    Yeah, I’ve been going to my therapist since I was, Oh, my God, probably 27, 28 years old and 42. So however long that is. And he’s been amazing to me. And during this time, I remember, oh, man, it was so funny. I had to call and cancel an appointment. Because we had our standing appointment, and I missed it because I was in the hospital.

    Steve 1:26:29

    So I had to call him and he was like, yeah, like, where are you? You’re okay. And I was like, Oh, I’m in the hospital, I had a stroke. And he was like, Oh, my God. And this is in September, right. And so towards the end of the year, I still met with him during that period. But he ended up waiving all my fees, because he was like, you went through something terrible, don’t worry about it.

    Steve 1:26:52

    I mean, like, that’s like a serious. I mean, we were like, best friends at that point, you know. And I still talked to him, I talked to him just a week and a half ago, I talked to him regularly. And I need him. You know, I need that space. He’s, a person. He’s a great person.

    Steve 1:27:12

    But he’s going to retire at some point, you know, but I need that space, a third party, that unbiased opinion, who, who cares? Just enough, right? And who will tell you how it is from a psychological perspective, because I’m not a psychologist, just like, I’m not a neurologist. I’m not a psychologist. That’s not my job. Here’s what’s going on in me. Help. Tell me what you think, you know. And so it’s that delegation again, right?

    Bill Gasiamis 1:27:42

    It’s so valuable. And it’s non judgmental. That’s why I sought it out initially is because I always felt like a little bit of a black duck in my family, you know, I had these ideas and these thoughts and this method of approaching life and it didn’t always work at home, like it didn’t fit in.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:27:59

    And it was weird. And I always used to feel like, they don’t get me and they don’t because they go about life differently. Right. And I used to go there nonjudgmental. And I had a relationship with this lady for 20 something years, and I thought she was never going to retire or always be around. And she passed away about a year and a half ago.

    Steve 1:28:23

    I’m sorry to hear that.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:28:24

    Yeah, thank you, man. She was 83. And she passed away, in practice, like helping somebody. And it was like, it was nutty. I had spoken to a few weeks before that. And we were at that stage where the family had been there, my wife had been through my kids had been through all together or separately, you know, all over the place over the years.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:28:46

    And that one relationship was kind of the one solid guiding, always had my back kind of relationship that I could always go back to to reroute and to readjust and to re sort of revisit all the stuff that was bothering me or that I thought I was annoyed about that was somebody else’s fault or whatever, you know.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:29:15

    And when she passed away, in this last sort of 18 months, or whatever it’s been, I can’t remember I think it’s been nearly a year or more that’s when the I missed that opportunity to go and see her therefore I struggled through those early phases of COVID lock downs and all that type of thing and then recently picked up another amazing counselor and things are starting to settle down a bit as the restrictions have lifted everything sort of come together again, you know.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:29:46

    So it’s, I think one of my most valuable relationships. I’ll miss her forever. And she was just an amazing, staunch lady. She had my back all the time and And I never once did it feel like even though I was paying her for a time, never wants to feel like this whole thing that some people do is like, you know, why would I go and pay somebody to sit there and really give a shit, right?

    Bill Gasiamis 1:30:16

    Well, they do give a shit. That’s, why they have this career. That’s why they spent 12 years at university or wherever to become somebody that you can go to, and get support from unbiased without judgment all the time. I mean, no matter what.

    Steve 1:30:39

    The response to therapy that I run into, in the past from certain people is, why would I exactly what he said, Why would I pay someone to tell me what’s wrong with me? And I’m like, no, he’s never told me what’s wrong with me. He doesn’t tell me anything. He allows me the space to make the connections myself. He allows me the space to see myself through his unbiased eyes.

    Steve 1:31:43

    And you can’t have a relationship of a psychologist without a psychologist, like he has to be that person. If you hate exactly, if you hang out with him outside of the practice, then he’s a friend. And the relationship has changed. And it’s evolved.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:32:25

    And it’s no longer this non judgmental. non bias, you know, always got your back kind of space, it’s a different space, things are different because you’re interacting together iin a more usual way or common way, you know? So where are you at with the whole recovery now? How’s the band going? How have things changed over the last nine years as you’re coming into your 10th year?

    Steve 1:32:57

    I mean, things are amazing. My life is fantastic. Like I said, I got married just over a year ago. Our life has been fantastic. We have two awesome little kitties. And I know you have at least one cat, right?

    Bill Gasiamis 1:33:11

    Yeah.

    Steve 1:33:12

    Yeah. And so we have two cats who keep us occupied. And we love them. I have like, 1000s of pictures, and I just take pictures of them all day, you know. And then as far as music goes, I’ve been working. It’s been a challenging to time during COVID for music, because I’ve always been writing and COVID kind of hit and I just kind of struggled a little bit in that space.

    Steve 1:33:37

    And it was like, hard for me to find any inspiration, which is natural. And as I talk to people who have creative spaces, they would say the same thing. Well, it’s been difficult, right? Some people were able to turn it on and just go nuts and put stuff out. And that’s awesome.

    Steve 1:33:49

    I wasn’t, but my wife and I play in a band together. And we’re working on music, slowly but surely. And it’s a hopefully going to be ready for the light of day, next year, mid next year, hopefully. And you know, just kind of always seeing what kind of projects are out there. But for me, one of the biggest accomplishments that I’ve had in the last few years is finding my role in that design manager space.

    Steve 1:34:12

    And that’s been really grateful. This is the first time in my life it’s been a grateful opportunity. But It’s the first time in my life that I love my job. And I’ve always just worked to get paid and that was it. Because I don’t make a living on music or photographer or These are these other things I do.

    Steve 1:34:33

    But finding design and becoming finding my value in that space has been wonderful. It’s also one of these things that like, you know, I consider myself a very social person. I love people I love getting to know people. I love these types of situations where it gets into learn people stories, and in a role of people management and design.

    Steve 1:34:55

    There’s this great crossover where I’m always meeting people and helping people and provide A space for them to be seen and heard. And also learning a whole ton myself, because I only know this much. And these other people have access in depth of knowledge that I have no idea.

    Steve 1:35:12

    So it’s fun to learn from everyone. And that’s been great. I’m really lucky in that space. Yeah, I mean, overall, it’s like when that when the anniversaries come, we celebrate, like I said, we hang out with friends and kick it have a couple drinks, you know. And next year, we’ll be 10. And it’s gonna be, it’ll be interesting to see where we are at that point. You know, I’m looking forward.

    Finding Joy In Passion


    Bill Gasiamis 1:35:37
    Yeah, that’s awesome. How important is to have this passion project on the side that you guys are working on. It’s a long distant project, and there’s always something that it’s gonna happen in the future. But you’re not getting paid for it. So what’s the point of it?

    Steve 1:35:53

    Yeah, that’s a great question. That’s the question. I always asked myself, Why do I do this? Right? For a long time, the answer was because I have to, you know, I felt the need, I had to make music. And now, it’s coming back to because I want to, and that’s, I’d rather be there.

    Steve 1:36:15

    There was, you know, when I first started playing guitar didn’t know what I was doing. It was the child’s mind. And it was beautiful. And I just made stuff up. And it was something was good. Something wasn’t good. It didn’t matter. I didn’t care if it was good or not. I just wanted it to come out of me and have my colleagues and my bands, think it was good.

    Steve 1:36:33

    And then I got really focused on trying to make music that maybe other people are really gonna like. And then I started thinking about why am I doing it? Because, you know, I don’t get paid a lot. I mean, I get paid streaming royalties, which are, like, insignificant, and that’s a whole other conversation.

    Steve 1:36:51

    But now, I feel like, you know, I have to write music again, because I want to, you know, and finding that joy in that space is really valuable to me. And I want to find that joy again, because it’s been gone for a few years, you know, not that it’s been not joyful. It’s just harder to tap into regularly.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:37:12

    Yeah, when there’s a lot of emotional turmoil happening around us, because of all the stuff that’s going on in the world. It’s hard to be creative. I mean, that’s, I think, where creativity really lives is in the heart, right?

    Bill Gasiamis 1:37:24

    And if you can’t connect to your heart, well, then you’re going to be struggling to be creative. You can’t think a song into existence, you have to feel it as well. You know, you can’t just write down the notes and then get somebody to sing it without any heart. Like this just doesn’t work.

    Steve 1:37:44

    Agreed. Agreed. And that’s part of the challenge. Where is my heart? What do I want to say? What do I have to say? Is is valuable? Do I even want to put this out there to be heard. And I have to figure that out? You know, so it’s part of the process.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:38:01

    Steve, it’s been amazing getting to know you and chat with you. And I really want to thank you for being on the podcast and for sharing your journey and your story. I think this is a really valuable episode for people listening. If you’re kind of listening, and you haven’t really paid attention to many things, that’s fine as well.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:38:21

    But go back and listen a couple of times, because some of the stuff that we’ve shared here, is really important to your recovery is really important to your life going forward. But not only your life like everybody’s life that you’re interacting with, and that you impact.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:38:34

    So hopefully you get as much out of this episode, as I got out of it. I’ve just absolutely thoroughly loved this. And, yeah, I wish you well, man, and with the 10th year of with the anniversary coming up in the next 12 months. So hope is a smashing year now that things are sort of starting to settle down.

    Steve 1:38:56

    Thank you, Bill, it’s been such a pleasure to talk to you. I’m so grateful that you’ve made the time and we finally got to connect. And I agree, this has been very helpful for me to get your story and to talk to you and to share with someone who knows, you know, I don’t meet stroke survivors that often. So when I do, I’m always like, you know, and I’m glad you took the time to share your story, too. So thank you so much for having me.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:39:18

    Thanks for listening to the show. I hope you got a lot out of it and learn something new. And I hope that it’s giving you a bit of an insight into some of the things that go on in the mind of somebody who’s had a stroke, reflecting back after eight or nine years, so that you can get an understanding of how far you can come especially if you’re early on in your recovery phase.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:39:47

    Now, whether you’ve been navigating your journey for weeks, months or years, I know firsthand how difficult it can be to get the answers you need. The road is both physically and mentally challenging from reclaiming your independence to Getting back to work and rebuilding your confidence and more.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:40:03

    The symptoms don’t follow rulebook and as soon as you leave hospital, you no longer have medical professionals on tap. I know for me it felt as if I was teaching myself a new language from scratch with no native speaker in sight. If this sounds like you, I’m here to tell you that you’re not alone and there is a better way to navigate your recovery and rebuild a fulfilling life that you love.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:40:24

    I’ve created an inclusive, supportive and accessible membership community called recovery after stroke. This only one support and Resource Program is designed to help you take back your health into your own hands.

    Bill Gasiamis 1:40:37

    This is your guided book through every step in your journey, from reducing fatigue to strengthening your brain health, to overcoming anxiety and more, to find out more and to join the community for just $1 Head to recoveryafterstroke.com thanks for listening and see you on the next episode.

    Intro 1:40:52

    Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals opinions and treatment protocols disgusting any podcast or the individual’s own experience and we do not necessarily share the same opinion nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed.

    Intro 1:41:10

    All content on this website at any linked blog, podcast or video material controlled this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis, the content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing.

    Intro 1:41:26

    It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice the information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances or health objectives did not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or is a substitute for the advice of a health professional.

    Intro 1:41:47

    Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional your doctor or your rehabilitation program based on our content. If you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition, please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional if you are experiencing a health emergency or think you might be call triple zero in Australia or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance or go to the nearest hospital emergency department

    Intro 1:42:12

    Medical information changes constantly. While we aim to provide current quality information in our content. We do not provide any guarantees and assume no legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, currency or completeness of the content. If you choose to rely on any information within our content, you do so solely at your own risk. We are careful with links we provide however third party links from our website are followed at your own risk and we are not responsible for any information you find there.

    The post Spontaneous Vertebral Artery Dissection – Steve Molter appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

    1 hr 43 min

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A Community And Podcast For Stroke Survivors And Carers

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